1976 - Taxi Driver

0:01 Listen, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore, who would not let Here's a man who would not take it anymore, a man who stood up against the scum, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is someone who stood up. Hello everybody, and welcome back to nineteen seventy six. It's a limited series from a film by podcast. We are taking a look at some of the iconic films of the year nineteen seventy six. We're waxing intellectual about him. We're talking behind the scenes, some words that matter and underrated moments. Joining me today back to give us an education on seventy cinema. Andy, tom Andy, Welcome, Hey, thanks for having me. You know, so we've talked Rocky, We've talked Assault on Precinct thirteen. And if there was one movie I was really looking forward to discussing with you, it's today's. So let's talk a little bit about taxi driver. Oh yeah, animals come out at night some day, real round, come and watch allwasts come off the streets. You're talking to me, talking to me, Well, I'm the only one here.

1:47 You're only as healthy as you feel. You're only as healthy as you're feel Paul Schrader writes this script in ten days, and he's not exactly in the healthiest state of mind. I don't know if you know this, Andy. He gets fired from the AFI, his wife leaves him. He's making very little money as a critic, and he ends up finding work as a delivery driver, and he's driving so constantly it's basically he's living in his car. He's not sleeping. He starts going to porno theaters at night. He develops ulcers and realizes that the er nurse is the first person he's spoken with.

2:35 In three to four weeks, Paul Schrader has become Travis Bickle. Yeah, no, I heard that. I heard the parallels. Yeah, he's apparently getting into guns, and I guess he previously served in Vietnam or something like that. There's so many parallels with the guy and I and yeah, and he was going through a breakup with his new girlfriend or something. I just know. Yeah, that's right, really bad way. He was a really bad way I've heard. So, Yeah, it's amazing that someone in that kind of a situation can create something like taxi driver. Correct me if I'm wrong. Did he write Rolling Thunder too. I don't know. I Rolling Thunder is a very similar movie with you know, that type of guy out to get people back, you know kind of thing. Actually, yeah, he uh he wrote he wrote that for for John Flynn. I think of him. And who was Heywood Gold Roll Rolling Thunder Tommy Lee Jones and William Devane movie. Yeah, yeah, a great one. I saw that out here at Quentin Steeter. But yeah, it was a that's a great movie too. It absolutely is. Uh So Scorsese, you know, if ten days is impressive to shoot this, to write this movie, Scorsese shoots it in eight weeks. He assumes it won't make any money. You know, it's a labor of love. He's he's called it a labor of love with DeNiro because he recognized their chemistry while they're a film in nineteen seventy three is Mean Streets. So this is the movie where he kind of lets de Niro

4:08 develop, you know, it gives him a little more freedom to explore the character. Ultimately, he goes on to say that Raging Bull is their best collaboration, but I think it might be this. I don't know, what do you think? I agree? I agree, and funny. It's funny that we both talked about Assault on Precinct thirteen, and I kind of make the argument where I feel that's personally my favorite Carpenter film, although you can argue that the Thing is his better film, or you know, because it's just more of a generally accepted good film, is the Thing as opposed to Assault. But for some reason I like Assault better, the grittiness, the cheaper budget. And I feel the same way about this as that, you know, Good Fellows are you know, might be their big magnum opus.

5:02 But for some reason I really leaned towards this. I like the scale down version, although Goodfellows is a masterpiece still get me wrong, Oh yeah, but there's something about this film that I really enjoy. If there's one film, like when I think seventies grittiness, I always think Taxi Driver first, and it's probably because you know, he's shooting this in seventy five during the famous garbage strike, so the city looks disgusting and grimy and full of trash, and it's I mean, you want to talk about set dressing. You know, it's always nice when it's free, you know, you know what's fun. So I you know, I'm a lot older than you, and I guess in seventy six, I was ten, and we used to take because I grew up like an hour and change out of the city outside of Manhattan, and we would take class trips into the city. And so I got to experience the seventies New York City in small doses, in small doses, and I remember our chaperones, our teachers would always say like, you know, stay on the main streets, do not go off the side streets.

6:11 And I was always You're scared to death as a little kid. You're thinking somebody's just gonna drag me into an alleyway and just kill me, and you know, take my money. And it was always like, if somebody wants your money, just give it to them. It was all these little warnings, you know, it's like, oh wow, it was really scary. And when you get off the we'd get off a forty second and Broadway and they would be those Oh I forget the black Israelite guys. I don't know they're not around anymore. Because I used to work in Manhattan and I worked there for like seven years. I used to work in the city and it was all cleaned up by then. But but before then, and those guys are going, these black Israelite guys, and they'd stand on the corner with these they look like superheroes, with these big staffs, and they'd be yelling at everybody. It was scary. It was a scary scene, you know. And I didn't live there, but like I said, small doses, I kind of under stand how frightening the city could be. I would have to say, this is this is the scariest New York City I've ever seen in any movie. I mean, it's terrifying. I love the I love the fact that de Niro actually drove a cab in New York City for weeks to prepare for the role. I don't know if you ever heard this story. It's fantastic. Scorsese talks about it on the Taxi Driver Blu Ray on his commentary He you know, in nineteen seventy five, de Niro still mostly not recognized despite recently winning the Oscar for The Godfather Part two. But one of his fairs was a struggling actor who did recognize him, and he's like, oh my god, you're You're Robert de Niro. You just won

7:41 the Academy Award. Are things really this bad? This tough for actors? And Deaniro just looks in the mirror and says, yeah, I love that, man. I didn't know that. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, And credit credit to him too, because you know, he Columbia gets de Niro and Scorsese as a package deal after watching Mean Streets and this is uh, this is before The Godfather Too comes out. So now he hits it, hits big, you know, and then he gets the the Academy Award, so they're worried he's going to back out due to the small that the very small amount of money they offered him. But he honors the agreement and doesn't ask for more money. So I thought that was really cool of him. Yeah. What thirty five grand I think, right, Yeah, thirty thirty five thousand dollars for an Academy Award winning actor. That's that that just doesn't happen, you know. Yeah. And I heard he studied like the Midwestern accent for quite a while just to nail it. I I can't pick I can't pick it out. I can't tell you know, but you know, I mean, I grew up in the Midwest, so I don't.

8:45 I don't watch Taxi driver and here, yeah I heard, I heard it near. I don't hear like you know, my buddies, you know what I mean. So I don't know if he did it, you know, you know, maybe he made an effort. I don't know. I don't And again I don't know where he was coming from before that, so maybe he he needed to ditch another accent. But let's talk about a couple other Let's talk about a couple more actors in this. This one always blows my mind because we kind of briefly discussed this this situation when we covered The Bad News Bears for our nineteen seventy six episode. But Jodie Foster in the role of Iris, which you know, you could argue made her career as a as a dramatic actress. So originally she's cast as Amanda opposite Walter Mathow in The Bad News Bears, and Columbia goes after Tatum O'Neill, they offer her the role of Iris. She turns it down, complaining that it's too small of a role for and half jokingly says that she'd be better off playing Travis Bickele and and turns it down, so she goes after Bad News Bears years Yeah, exactly be talking, you know, the nerve of this this young woman. But no, she sees she starts circling Bad News Bears and they immediately released Jody Foster so they can get Tatum O'Neil. And what's Jodi Foster do? She goes, Okay, well I'll go over and i'll read for

10:16 this one. Uh, and she gets She gets a taxi driver, which I couldn't imagine anyone else playing this role all the times I've seen it, you know, because there's we got to remember every young actress from Brook Shields to Michelle Pfeiffer read for it, and Jody was actually the third choice. First they had Tatum O'Neil, and then they're looking at Linda Blair and ultimately she went she wins the role. Yeah, she's freakishly mature and and she is literally twelve and a half or something when they move it, I guess, and it is. It's weird. There's this weird thing. You know, since I'm out here in Hollywood area and you do run across kids that have been in in films and they have this weird maturity like me at twelve.

11:03 Shit, man, I was into like, you know, hot wheels, and yeah, I know these kids, they're just so mature. And even her voice is like deeper, you know, it's just really it's perfect. She's perfect casting, you know. And I don't know how Linda Blair would have done. You know, I can't picture her at that age. The Exorcist was made, what was that seventy five or something, I don't know, seventy two, seventy three. It was early seventies, okay, but yeah, she might have been okay, but yeah, Jodie was perfect. Yeah. It's funny you say that because you know I'm right there with you at twelve years old. I'm I'm still righting my mongoose. You know, I'm playing in the woods. I got g I Joe's. When you watch her and you know that she's twelve, twelve years old filming this, it's mind blowing because she she cares herself like a thirty year old in the movie exactly so Sybil Shepherd as Betsy and Albert Brooks as Tom. Here's where the I always love. I always love the little behind the scenes stories when it comes to who gets who gets cast and how they get cast. Columbia is actively looking for what they are calling a Sybil Shepherd type. And when Sybil Shepherd's agent, here's this, I think her name was Sue Ingers She she contacts him and says, why are you looking for a Sibil Shepherd type when you could just ask Sybil Shepherd? But I don't know. She's adorable in the movie. I love her, but apparently she had a lot of

12:37 there's a lot of friction with her and de Niro on on set. Yeah, you know, he claimed. You know, the story I heard was she was having trouble with her lines, you know, getting her lines right. You know, she's giggling, she's laughing, she's having fun. He's there to work. And uh, I did hear that. I did to hear that in the specifically the pie scene when they're yeah with the cheese on it. I heard. I think there was a little some issues there, but uh yeah, I think she pulled it off. I think she's I could look, I'm sure you know there's been there. I think they were once heard there were like two hundred and fifty people that were considered for her part. Yeah, which is outrageous. And the names that are thrown out there. It's just ridiculous, you know, Eliza Minnelli and I can't even go. You know. Yeah, some different people considered, but ultimately she has that weird strength of character in her face. No, she doesn't.

13:39 She's not cheap, is she? She pulls off the New Yorker, the tough New Yorker. I don't know. I think she's she's she's great. I mean, she's I think she I could see her role given to somebody else, though, you know, it's not like there's nobody else that could do that. Yeah, but yeah, she was fine. I like that. Yeah, you're right. Well, you're right, like if you had a sad card in nineteen seventy five you were reading for the role of Betsy, and uh, I don't know. I think she conveys there's a playful innocence about her. But I also believe I believe her as like a you know, a political activist, you know, working for this campaign. You know, she has And it's odd because we talked about Jodie Foster's maturity.

14:20 Sybil has it too, but a little bit less. I must feel like she's a little more playful, a little more innocent than than Jodi Foster's character, but nevertheless I love her in the film. Albert Brooks. Interestingly enough, he's given the role of Tom because Scorsese and Trader are having conversations and they're like, hey, this movie is really dark, it's really serious. It could use a little bit of levity. And Scorsese said, let's get a comedian to play Tom. So while he's not you know, up there doing jokes and making you laugh, he's he's got some fun. Like his delivery I think is real fun, like with you know, when he's arguing with the person on the phone about the buttons, you know, and the the misrepresentation. You know, he's fun. I like seeks people are we are the people? Are we are the people? Yeah, well let's get it straight. We do not pay for the buttons. We throw them in the trash. Yeah. I heard his Uh that role got expanded because I guess they just liked his work, you know. And he's I think, is this his first film? I want to say, this is uh one of it might be his debut, yeah, because he I know he had done he had been doing stand up comedy. But I don't know if he had done. I don't know if he had a feature film at this point, so he's not the first choice for Tom obviously. Marty calls his his buddy Harvey Kayitel up and says, hey, I want you to be in this movie. You know you're working on your campaign, manager Kitel says.

15:52 He looks at the script. He says, nah, I want to be Matthew. I want to be the pimp sport. I'll tell you someone, I thought this was fun. This was a fun one. I'm I'm kind of set, like I know this now. I'm kind of sad that it didn't happen. But uh, Catherine Scorsese, who we know. She always played the mom character and in all of his later movies like Casino, Goodfellas, you know, Lovely Woman. She actually had a role in this as ah as Iris's mother and she all she also was his first his first fair Oh but yeah, I'm trying to remember, well you will you you You're not gonna remember her because he cut it. Oh. The first person that Travis Bickle picks up is a woman with shopping bags played by Martin Scorsese's mother, Catherine Scorsese, and ultimately the movie was running long. He didn't feel like he needed the scene, so so he cut it. But uh, I guess he made it up to her because she has she's she's so memorable and goodfellas. You know. Cut one's looking the one way, it's looking the other way. Yeah, why don't you settle down? I settled down and hopost every night. Ma doumb back up. Yeah, we go off on that. We could, man, we could, But I'll tell you what. Let's uh, I guess his dad's in there too. I guess the photo in the paper at the end is what you referenced. Uh yeah, the newspaper article, that's his dad as well. So his mom and

17:23 dad are in that. I wonder. So I know we're jumping ahead, but at the end of the film and there's the cameras panting across the the newspaper articles and the uh the letter that Iris's parents wrote wrote Travis, and the voiceover. I wonder, is that Martin's dad doing the voiceover? I mean, I know the photo in the newspaper and thank you for help. And it's funny the way he reads it too. It's really stunted, like like the way Travis is reading his journal it's it's written and he the way he's read it's very it's very stunted. I have some theories that I'll go into later on. But yeah, okay, anyway, the big the big ask is is that Morton Scorsese real father reading that? I doubt it.

18:14 It could be, though, I'll tell you what. Let's uh, We're gonna take a quick break to hear from the sponsors and then we'll be back with Andy Tom and more. Taxi driver in just a minute. Fire places.

18:56 Well, my signals, wells over. It's that one in the season we all find some Peason toys. We are back. Andy Tom is with us. We're talking Taxi driver. Andy, let's talk a little bit about Bernard Hermon for a minute. What what tell me your thoughts on this?

19:38 On this score, it's amazing. I mean, you see, I think I showed you before the before we started talking here, uh, is that I have the soundtrack on vinyl and it's you know, I'm sure you're gonna you know that it's his last thing he did right before he died. He actually what like to to a day or two after you maybe maybe two days before he completes this, This soundtrack but yeah, and in the liner notes of this vinyl, because I looked over it when we were about to do this the show, the the liner notes say, this is really neat little factoid is that? Ah in the end of when when Travis picks up Uh talk about Betsy at the end, Betsy at the end and he drops her off on the on the sidewalk. Uh. Martin specifically asked Bernard for a different sting, like some type of little musical sting to to punctuate that moment, because this is just this is the big moment. And so Bernard threw in some xylophone, little xylophone trill and Bernard and then of course he was talking to him on the phone and he says, hey, uh, yeah, that xiophone was nice, but I wanted it to be a little more unsettling, like I wanted because this is it's not everything's not perfect, you

21:11 know. And Bernard said, play it backwards, and that was He says, those are the last three words he said to him, and then he died that night. Yeah, And so I went and listened to the and it is it's very odd. It sounds it you can't tell it's a x iophone. But there is a little sting where it kind of m hm. So if you if you listen for that, you'll you'll see what I'm you'll know what I'm talking about it. But it's right after he drops it off and he's driving away, he looks in the rear view mirror and yeah, this is one of those scores that when I saw it, you know, when I first saw a taxi driver at a younger age, I didn't appreciate it for its brilliance. You know. Uh. He was Scorsese's only choice, you know. He gets connected to him through Brian de Palma, you know, and on the phone he's talking to him about you know, he's a huge fan of his work because of his what he does on the Hitchcock films. He wants him to do Taxi driver. Herman, who's never heard of him, just says, hey, I don't. I don't do car movies. And he said, who whoa, whoa, it's not a car movie. He's like, just just let me send you the script. He goes, all right, send me the script and we'll I'll look, I'll take a look at it. But he calls him back. He says, hey, you know I hear the movie. It's all brass, there's no strings, and it will show the strength of this character. It will show how hard he is. And I gotta say, like, you know, when you when you know that and you watch this movie and you hear all

22:41 those brass instruments, it's it's Travis Pickle, you know, even like the slow jazz beats, you know, slow jazz, it's you know, he's kind of referencing like loneliness, but you know, jazz music can be volatile, just like Travis Pickle. I think it's a perfect marriage of those sounds and that little sting that you're talking about. It really it punctuates the whole the whole film. I think, Yeah, I know, I know, I know some people just really aren't fans of this soundtrack. I am. I like you said, I like the pounding. When I when I think of New York in those times, I always think of this brass, saxophones and stuff like that, because I mean, I grew up watching Saturday Night Live. And what's the big instrument you hear on when you see Saturday Night Live Live from New York? You know, it's always a sax and sacks.

23:32 The band fear. You know, the punk rock New York's all right, if you like saxophones, it's it's just embedded in New York. It's saxes and brass and stuff like that. So uh yeah, I think I think the score, uh it fits perfect. I also think it's pretty incredible. This is a point in in cinema where we don't have video cassette, you know, and Herman's in London. They're shooting this in America, so he's basically kind of cutting reels black and white reels and shipping them over, and Herman's looking at it and saying, hey, this is how I hear it. This is what I'm gonna do. The the the limitations on communication that they that they had to deal with for this movie. It blows my mind that it comes out the way it does because it sounds like, you know, I'm with you. It's it's an incredible soundtrack. It's you know, love the score, love everything about it. Yeah. No, I I kind of understand the because I don't know if I mentioned that. You know, I'm in animation. I'm an animation director, and when I first got into the business, everything was snail mail. Everything was slow when you ship stuff to get it made over seas and then they had retakes, they'd have to mail it back and it was a big I mean everything took forever.

24:48 You know. I'd do storyboards and you'd have to get to the FedEx before five, you know, before the fed X closed, or you wouldn't get it overnighted. And yeah, so I understand the you know now I'm like, how did we even do any of this stuff? You know, it's great, everything had to be mailed, you know, somebody do a soundtrack, They all right, we're gonna mail or we'd have a corrier go over and pick it up and bring it to the office. It was crazy. It makes you It makes you question how how impatient we are nowadays. When you send someone a text or an email and like it's been two minutes and you're like, where are they? You know, I mean I couldn't imagine the waiting, you know, like, hey, I come up with something really good, I'm gonna mail it out and see what they say.

25:30 And then you're waiting several weeks just to hear a yes or a no. That's andy. Let's talk a little bit about the themes that this movie Tackles because really, I think self imposed loneliness is the central theme of the movie when you look at someone like like Travis Pickle, because you know, I and I'm paraphrasing Schrader a little bit, I I you know, I watched a great interview with him. But you know, a character like Travis, they're not suffering the nightmare of their surroundings. He's creating it. And if you think about it, his world, you know, and I never really picked up on this all the times I watched it years ago, but Travis Bickle is in a world that revolves around two women that he's obsessed with and he cannot have. And I think once he realizes this, you know, he sets out to kill their father figures, you know, because in his world, there's no difference between a politician and a pimp. You know, you got you got Betsy who is you know, I mean, if we kind of take the Madonna and the horror concept, you know, you've got Betsy who is who is pure. She's innocent, you know, she's idealistic, and she's she's looking up to this politician that she's trying to get elected into office. And then you've got Iris who is the exact opposite of everything Betsy is and looks up to Matthew this pimp. Ultimately, you know, I think Travis Pickele, he's deemed heroicue because he just happened to kill the right one. Right, Yeah, I here again, we'll go into this

27:02 in a little bit when I when I lay out my theories. But when you say hero, I don't think he's a hero at all. I mean, and I don't think I think he's just he's an He's basically what we modern day we call in cells, you know, where we just can't get that woman, and he's just evolving into this like like today's day and age, he would probably have a he just probably log on onto some four Chan website and he'd have a million other people just like him and they could just band together. But back then he didn't have that type of stuff, so he just sat and isolated himself and just his mind just ate away at itself, you know. So that's probably that's I think that's what happened to in cells back in those days. And it's I totally get where he you know, Look, it's funny because like if you watch like death Wish there's so many parallels you could draw with Death Wish and and this movie in that New York was a shithole back in those days, and you could get frustrated with you, you know, with the crime and the freaks and the fairies and the queens or whatever he said, you know, I mean, there is that group that just and what was the guy Hinckley, Uh, you know Hinckley. And but the other guy shot up on the subway that Bernard named Bernard something. I can't remember his name, but that's all you time about the subway, the subway shooter that killed the Yeah. Yeah, so that

28:33 that sentiment was around. So, I mean it was there's a stark realism about Travis uh that people could relate to. But then at one point, at some point, you go, a man, he's going a little too far and it's getting a little scary, you know, so you're kind of that's that's what you're kind of like rooting for him. You're rooting for him. You're rooting for him, and then you're just like, wait, should I root for him? You know? I know? So yeah, well, I mean so it's interesting because you know, like like the movie, you know, especially Iris' parents. They make him out to be a hero. I think he's maybe he's more of an anti hero is what I would consider him. You know, you know, someone like someone like Paul Kersey and Death Wish or even in real life you know, you mentioned h Bernie gets the subway shooter. You know, people that just they've had enough of what they're what they're witnessing, and then they just snap one day and uh but you know, and it's like you want to be you want to follow Travis on his journey, but he hits a point where you're like, Okay, I'm can't. I can't do it. You know, like you know when we get to underrated moments. I want to talk a little bit about like the last second where you're like you're with him maybe because like he does have that moment where he snaps and he goes and confronts her at the campaign office and you know, just gets it gets real uncomfort, real fast, and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, this guy I've been with,

30:03 I can't follow him anymore. Like he you know, I can't. I can't follow him at this point. He's he's lost it. Yeah, it's funny you questioned Betsy's motive, like why did she even go on a date with this guy? Uh? You know, and then it just proved. He just proves I think she's just like, I'm just ready for excitement. I just want something exciting to happen in my life, you know, because the way he talks to her, and he's leaning over the desk, it's kind of okay, he's got some moves. You know. I think you're lonely. I think you you you look very lonely sitting here, which I take that as just like like a fortune teller bullshit. You know, it's like that everybody, Oh you you feel incomplete sometimes? Right? Well, yeah, everybody does, you know. So it's he was just feeding her line of shit. But then she was just like, all right, I'll give you a shot. And then when it turns when he's sitting there eating the pie, at least for me, but she's still just when we're eating the pie and he talks about Albert Brooks's character, he's like, I don't like him whatever. He's just staring does this death stare at her?

31:07 Yeah, And she she's like, I've never never met anybody but anybody like you yet she continues to go out with him, which that's the moment where she's like, I'm scared of you. I'm scared to death. You're freaking me out. But I'll go to a movie, you know, to the porn theater and you know we know of that sort. But that, yeah, that one, you get these little hints of oh wait, he's kind of dangerous, you know. Yeah, and then when he just blows his cool when he runs back into the campaign office and now you blew it, buddy. Yeah. The the evolution of his of his character, you know, because he is a little he's coming on strong when he when you know, like you mentioned like he's he's leaning on that desk. I feel like he's got confidence though, yeah, and just a little bit of charm.

31:56 And you're right. I think she's kind of thinking like, hey, i mean, Dan day out, she's got she's got Albert Brooks, you know, schmoozing up to her. And she sees this guy and this is he's like, he's the the anti Albert Brooks, you know, and you know he is a little bit of danger But I think the red lights are are in the pie scene where he's yeah, you're right, he's like, I don't like that guy. I don't. I don't. I don't think he should be right, and it's like, okay, okay, but and there's something really charming in that, like and it's also another creepy thing where he goes to the porn theaters. He goes and he's just like clueless, like what's wrong with this? People couples go to this. I see him all the time, and it's weird that he went, like because I guess the first theater he goes into it's really tiny, and I should mention that.

32:44 Like last week, Uh, there was an article I don't know where I saw it every online that LA has one remaining porn theater and you're kidding me. I thought these things were all gone. Yeah, I thought they were all going too. And it's it's this neat article about this guy. He's like a guy from Ecuador or something in East Hollywood, and it looked they shot some a couple of shots from inside and looked just like that theater it was like maybe six seats wide and really tiny and they just have it gone twenty f I forget what the price is, you know, twenty dollars for two hours, or he's just there and it looks just like that one. But anyway, what's what's weird. It's like he goes to those, but he's not like it doesn't seem like he's getting into it. You know, he's just sitting there like just hollow, you know, So why is he there? Like, I think he's just he really wants that connection mm hmm any humans, you know, I don't. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Like the loneliness that his character is engulfed in, I think he's looking for connection. I think he's just looking for for human contact wherever you can get it, whether it's sitting in a diner where he meets up with the other cabbies, or it's it's in a creepy little porno booth you know that that he goes too, because like I mean, he's You're right, he's not there for the movies. He's there just to be around people. You know, you got Like I always think about how hard he's trying not to hit on the girl the concession stand. He's just wanting to talk and have a

34:15 conversation, you know, and she's obviously not having it. She's like, hey, you want me to get the manager. He's like, oh, whoa, whoa, just you know, and then he buys like, you know, four boxes of candy and a RC and you know, popcorn. It's like, you don't, you're not you're not buying concessions when you go to a theater like that, at least I wouldn't think so. But uh, dollar eighty five for all that, you know, you know that yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that was a that was the dinarest girlfriend wasn't at the time or something. She was his love interest in King of Comedy as well. Oh I gotta, I gotta go back and watch that. Then uh I miss that, but uh you know, back to that, like that that Madonna and the whore concept. It's almost like he's not that he's intentionally doing it, but it's almost like he's taking Betsy, you know, Sybil Shepherd's character, who is pure and innocent and and all this, and he's kind of he's kind of trying to twist her into something a little more seedy and a little more like part of his world. And of course she's she's uncomfortable, she's she's offended, and she's out of there. But definitely a great scene because it's not, you know, even in that moment, like, I'm like, you know what he's not. It's not that he's being he's a creep for taking her there, but it's not that he was intentionally trying to be a creep. He was just trying to, oh, hey, this is what people do. Okay. Great? And and I think it speaks volumes to how he treats Iris because it's the exact opposite approach, because he sees her in that that horror existence and he wants to get her out. He wants to turn her into the Madonna. So I

35:49 love the I love the back and forth that that he has with the two female leads in this. Mh. I'm sure you know. Another factoid is that the character that Iris is based on, she's in the movie. She's the one who grabs Iris from getting run over in the street. Yeah you're talking about what her name is, Garth I think right, okay, Garth Avery, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently she was a young prostitute and uh that's who they used for research purposes. So yeah, I dig the fact that, you know, anytime they get someone like that, they're like, hey, just you know what come be in the movie. You know right, because it's it's such a small scene because obviously it's like, this is Iris's friend. But then when you do the homework and you're like, oh wow, that's it's kind of sad too, because it's like, here's a real teenage prostitute in New York City that you know she's involved because she has the experience, she has, she can she can inform Jodie Foster on how to how to make this character correct. Andy, I want to talk you know. You you kind of hinted at some theories you have about taxi driver. You know, let's let's uh, let's let's hear what you got.

36:57 Well, it's not it's nothing unusual. And you've probably I'm sure you've heard it. It's that I I he dies at the end. Man, it's he has to once once I heard this and I can't. I can't look at the film any other way. And I've watched it many times since I heard this. Is that when he's sitting on the couch, he's got that mortal neck wound, he's you know, and he wanted to kill himself. And then the camera does the they call it the Priests shot or the God shot, where it just kind of floats above him. Oh yeah, yeah, it floats out. So he at that moment he dies on the couch. This is what I'm saying, because he dies on the couch and it floats out and it's an arrow shot. And then all those bullshit articles about him being such a hero, which is crazy to even consider that.

37:46 Why is he a hero? It's it's a it's a brutal killing of what these people. They're not. Everyone is like whatever. So he killed all those people, and and and he gets the letter which is, oh, everything's Punky Dory, our daughter back home, and everything wrapped up in a nice little bow. He picks up. You know, hey, you have a fair pops in all their Sybil Shepherd she's driving away and everything. And he's just so cool. He's cool as ice. He doesn't even make a fool of himself. He drops her off, right, So that makes no sense. Also, he says, okay, So at one point, I think it's when I keep saying, I keep thinking Palpatine from Star Wars.

38:32 But Palatine, Palatine or whatever, Charles Pelatine. Yeah, given a speech, but there's a voice over and he's saying it's July, right, established it, he's running in July. So he picks up Sybil Shepherd. So let's say the killings take place maybe in July or whatever or sometime around there. So in the summer he picks her up and she says, hey, congratulations on him getting the nomination, and she's like, yeah, only seventeen more days I'm assuming for the election. So this puts that right of November. Yeah, from July to November, he shaved his head and now his hair is completely grown back. Right, oh, overthinking this shit, No, you're onto something here, man. How does his hair grow completely back out? And it's completely style. He's healthy again in a matter of just a couple of months. So everything wrapped up too nicely. His hair got back and everything's fine. His buddies are all. It just made so, and I know I know that what's his name the screenwriter and Paul Schrader, and of course he both say, no, that's not our intention. But if you want to read it that way, fine, and that's the way I read it. It's gotta be okay. So so the Andy Tom take is that the end of Taxi Driver, he dies on the couch and like that that moment, you know, flashing before as as he's dying, it's, you know, life flashing before his eyes. He's seeing, he's getting

40:05 the ending that he thinks he deserves exactly. It's oh, I never thought about that, dude. Everything is too perfect. It's too oh. He's a hero and everyone looks up to him now and and the family thanks him for all his wonderful And here's another thing. Is when it's read by like I said, where is that really? Score says, it's read in that same staccato like halting who that he reads his journal? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, read that same halted flow. I know I'm overthinking it, but now I don't think you are. Man. I think you've just you've just uh, you just convinced me that the ending of taxi driver is something completely different, because I never I never even thought about that.

40:52 And now now you've dropped all the pieces in place. It's it's too perfect, you know. And right like you we talked about him, like when he's reading his journal, he has it's like that stunted way of speaking he has. The guy is doing that, the voice of over guy's doing that too. I think you got it, you know, I think you got it, and maybe, like I looked at I researched this though, I looked at and and like I said, Store says, He's like, no, he sounded like completely dumbfounded. No, no, it's not what we intended really did. Then, I don't know, man, because did you really think that he's a hero that's also sending a really shitty message? Right?

41:34 Well? Yeah, because he I mean the guys he kills are scumbags. But at the same time, I mean, the guy was just a timekeeper, right, the guy who he was it, the guy who he blew his fingers off, you know, Oh, the guy that's like kind of running the run of the brothel. Yeah, I think I think it's I think he's credited as the timekeeper or something, right, I don't Yeah, So I mean, is he really that horrible a dude? I guess. I mean, he's part and parcel of the whole hooker thing. But he's I mean, he's part of that. You know, when when Travis talks about that rain that will wash him all away, he's Yeah, I guess he's part of that thing that needs to be washed away. I don't know, But man, are you saying that that John's that John's pick up hookers deserve a bullet iner head, you know, I mean, I don't know. And then he's a hero for it. Yeah wow. I know.

42:23 Well even even when I think about Iris in that moment, she is absolutely terrified and screaming and she's hiding from him. So everything this theory that you've got that you're there, you're posing. I think I think it's on the money. And maybe if you know, if if this is you know, if Scorsese and Paul Schrader have had to have to speak to this, I almost wonder if it's a situation where they gotta you know, they're like they're thinking, well, we didn't think of that, but that's that makes sense and it's better, and maybe they just want to you know, they throw the credit out there. I don't know shit with that that camera move where the camera floats above the cops, it floats away, you know, it doesn't etherial movement, you know that out of body experience. Bro, I think you got it. Man. I kind of want to go back and watch Taxi Driver again, like immediately, just to watch it with that with that ending. Now, that's that's that's incredible. Man, I don't know, I and I know, uh, this movie over time, I guess it got some heat because of Hinkley obviously, you know, Yeah, the story goes h Hinkley side of this as like inspiration, Yeah, to assassinate Reagan, and you know it's all for Jodie Foster apparently. Yeah, this is on a list of like the most dangerous films of all time.

43:40 And yeah, I mean you can be you know, January sixth guy, and and this this is like your fuel, like, well, you're not going to put up with any more bullshit, you know. Oh yeah, that's that can be the attitude if you go into it like that. But it's not that just like death Wish Jeff with is not you know, I'm not trying to open up another can of Warrens. But it's the same thing. It's Bronson's not really a hero, you know, He's just a result of you know, some bad choices. Yeah, well yeah, Bronson, he's a damaged individual who's reacting to the the situation, right like you know, and I buy I buy Paul Paul Kursey murdering you know, scumbags after what happens to his wife and daughter makes a lot more sense than Travis Bickle just seeing people that are in a situation that they choose to be in and and wanting to wanting to create a better situation for him because you know, there's that there's that scene. You know, if you think about de Niro is pretty much in every single scene in this film, with exception like one or two, and one of them is the that that tender I hate to say the word, I hate to use the word tender, but it's like a tender moment between Harvey Keitel and Jodi Foster, where you see that he's not holding her against his her will, he's not abusive, he's not treating her bad. Really, he's you know, they have that that that that dance, and he's kind of coveting her, and it's it's as sweet as it is sick, you know, because then your your your brain tells you

45:14 she's she's an underage prostitute. She's in a bad situation, so you you know, and it kind of reinforces, like you want Matthew, you want something bad to happen to him, even if he's not truly being evil to her, you know what I mean? Right right, Yeah, this is this is a I don't know if I guess you'd consider good Fellas, No, you wouldn't. I don't know. But this is his one first person, uh first person film where every scene does involve Travis except I think that dance scene and I'm trying to think. I think maybe when Albert Brooks and Sybil Shepherd are talking and oh yeah, so I guess there's another one where it's not from Travis's POV or you know, where he would kind of experience that. But no, I was gonna say that would be the one because they have that moment inside campaign headquarters. But interestingly enough, in both situations, Travis is outside the building, you know, because you get that moment where he's we see Travis in the cab with the camera kind of pans up to the window, and then we're inside the apartment with with Iris and Sport, so you know he's out there watching, waiting, just like he is.

46:23 Uh you know, because Albert Brooks is like, you know, I think it's well, it's Sybil Shepherd that notices him first and she's like, look this guy, he's out here, and Albert Brooks takes that moment to be, you know, try and look like a tough guy, like you know, I'm gonna get rid of me, you know. And I think there's another thing that reinforces my theory that where when she had when when Jodie Foster has a little dance scene with there's no there's no cracks in her armor where you think like she wants to get out of this situation, you know what I mean, Like she's not there is. Although now I'm thinking when she does get in a cab, well, here's when she gets into cab and then Sport grabs her and pulls her out, crumples up that twenty and drops it on his past. Cool. Yeah, that okay, So this is what I really think it's brilliant about that, Like if this movie were handled what I okay, So the way Scorsese scored this with with Herman's score, is that right there in a modern filmmaker's hands, he would added like this this ominous you know, like, oh man, he just saw the guy that he hates. And that's yeah, I really I paid attention to this because when she when he pulls her out of the cab, that drama happens, and then we cut the near and he's looking in the rear view or however they played it out. It's just that sacks normal New York and

48:00 it just plays, and I think that's that's Score says. He's saying, like, hey man, this is crazy New York. Shit happens. And it wasn't like he didn't telegraph like the story is ultimately going to end with this guy and a confrontational sport and iris it's just Travis was just like, yeah, some more shitheads in New York. He drives away. So it wasn't a big moment, and I thought that was brilliant way to handle that. He didn't he didn't set it up like this is big drama. This is just like and then when he does eventually see her again, it's just by chance, you know. So he wasn't like hunting her down and they just happened to run across her again, and then that kind of planted some seeds in his head. But at that moment, it wasn't no big deal.

48:43 It was just more craziness in New York City, just another day, right. And also yeah, and also where the score where Martin knew not to do it, is that in that hallway when you know the big shootout at the end. M h, I fucking own music. It's just silence, and it's just the creepiest, most horrific thing, Like it would have been so ruined if you would have just had all this dramatic music playing. Don't drums, there's nothing. It's silence, and it's almost it's horrifying. It's scary because it's real, like like especially the way he filmed when he when he did shoot Sport. You know, it's like you're almost like a guy sitting on the stoop across the street and just watching this shit unfold.

49:29 And he gets shot in the stomach, which is the most horrifying. It's funny because I watch a lot of like the old movies from the fifties and stuff, and they're like eight l sucker already shoots it the gun and they die instantly. They get shot in the stomach and they're dead, Like that's not the way it would happen. And the way k Tell goes down, he's like holding on trying to stay up right. Oh oh, and it's just his gut. You can almost feel that impact and like from the pov of sitting across the street and then he just kind of Travis kind of walks to the left screen life and then he like just sits on a stoop. He's in no hurry, stark realism and no music. It's it's not cinema. It's not cinematic in any any regard. And in the lack of music, especially in that hallway, seeing the lack of music, it puts you in that moment, you know, like you're you're trapped in that hallway and you're uncomfortable. You know, one thing, and I you know, because a big film, you know, the part of my job is analyzing shots in the way that things flow and also sound to punctuate story. And there's one really odd moment where he shoots that guy's fingers off right and Sport is behind him and takes a couple of shots. So the guy who got his finger shot off speechless, not one word out of his mouth. So all the shit goes down. Boom, he shoots Sport again, Boom, shoots him, walks over he's laying down there, shoots him. Then the guy

50:59 with the fingers. Then you just hear him going, I'm fucking killing killing you, but he doesn't say a word at all. It's really strange, like looking back, like you would think, right when you get your finger shot off, you're like, oh Jesus, oh my god. Yeah. So I don't know why that decision was made. It's I guess maybe he just wanted to focus on the interaction between sport and and I don't know. I don't know, but it's it's something that I noticed just recently watching it. So we gotta we gotta talk about Travis Pickle's look. Uh, this I thought was really cool. And I'm talking about Travis Bickle once he's transitioned into you know who he's going to become, you know, with the with the mohawk. I've always wondered, like you know, growing up aloys, like why why the mohawk? Why does he shave his head? And this is a fantastic story. Uh apparently, Uh, Travis Pickle's look was heavily influenced by one Scorsese's friends named Vic mcgnatta. You know, they went to school together at Nycu. Uh. This guy served in Vietnam and when he came back he became a stuntman. So Vix explaining that during Vietnam he would see soldiers in Saigon getting mohawk haircuts, and it was apparently it was a it was a signal that they were heading out to do something quote unquote special.

52:27 Yeah I heard that too. I think that's awesome, you know. Yeah, yeah, and uh, if you watch the movie too, the way the way he slowly, the way he reveals the mohawk, it's it's just the way the camera pans up. I think he's taking oh yeah, a pill or something. But you it is. It is jarring when you the first time you see that mohawk, like, whoa, I didn't know you were going to do that, you know, Like I think modern day sensibilities would show him like, you know, staring into the mirror and shaving his head while some dramatic music's playing. Yeah, just like oh so we're going here now, and it's just holy crap. You're just you're just you're just shocked for a moment. And I'm sure you know that it was a bald cap. It was not, oh yeah, which is outrageous because I I mean, for years I thought he just shaved his head. It just looks so good. So well, yeah, you were we got it's a it's makeup artist Dick Smith, you know legendary makeup artist Dick Smith, who who creates that bald cap and makes it look as realistic as it is.

53:30 Because I for years I just assume, you know, de Niro's a you know, he's he's a method guy. He'll he'll shave his head, no, no problem. But I guess he had he was either he either had to do pickup shots for another movie or he was in pre production on a movie getting ready for one. So him shame and said was out. Yeah, that's where I heard. I heard it was for you know, pickup shots and if you need if you need to you know he shootout order or anything like that. So Andy, let's take one more break and when we get back, we'll talk underrated moments and words that matter. Here's a Space age gift for kids from Radio Shack, the original Space Patrol walkie talking You get too for just fourteen ninety five a pair, and they really work.

54:12 They're crystal controlled and battery operated, just like Dad's biggest CB units, and they're built in Radio shacks own electronics factory. So this Christmas thrill you are kids with a fourteen ninety five a pair of Space patrol only at Radio Shack attendcapany Andy, it is not your favorite scene in the movie. It's not in the trailer for the film, but without it, the film is just a little bit less. You have an underrated moment that comes to mind for taxi driver. Yeah, I think I'm I think I'm cheating because this is I know Martin's course says. He says it's his favorite part, his favorite scene. Well, let me let me give that one because that's the easy answer and it's my true answer. And then I'll give one that's a little more obscure. Is that you know, when he's on the phone after he blew it with Betsy and he's, oh, yeah, everybody knows that one to see I'm not. Everybody's so aware. No, this is this is this is the moment I would choose. Yeah, I'll tell us about it.

55:16 Yeah, where he's on the phone and he's trying to get her back and kind of saying, you know, well, can we go out, maybe you get some food, And he's talking on a payphone in this scummy apartment hallway, and the camera it's it's held on him for just painful conversation and it's really just cringe. You just yeah, and just have him just hang up, dude, and she doesn't want you, and and the camera kind of pans to the right and goes down this empty hallway. It's just and and Martin says that it's just like even the camera was just too embarrassed. I just just hold on him, so it just had to pull away, and it's it's cringe. And then he just hangs up and then walks.

55:58 But it's it's it is really brilli when you when you watch that, because it holds on him for a long time before it pans away, You're like, oh, I want to get out of here. I want to get out of here. When the camera starts to move away, you're like, oh, thanks, you know. So it's yeah, it's a that's a that's a brilliant moment. But also I want to say, well, and a little more obscure one is. And Travis is starting to get up his courage or however you want to you know, I want to confront Sport and when he goes up to UH to pay for Iris' services and have a little banter back and forth, and it's kind of filthy the way he's saying what she'll do for him for twenty five bucks or whatever he paid. But then he says, uh what does he say? Says all right, copper, see you later, and he goes, what'd you call me? Oh?

56:47 Yeah him in sport. Yeah, He's like officer, yeah, about entrapment. Good job, officer yeah, and that, and then he just stares at him a little too long and and it's just awkward that that moment. You're like, is he going to go through with it? Is he really gonna? Like? But he? I think Travis is unsure. He's you know, it's kind of like it. It's the same he's putting out the same energy as the you're talking to me, you know, Yeah, it's that without any lines. He's just staring a him. You know, He's like, I'm hip. Are you gonna look at it? Man? Yeah? And that moment is so tense and you just just turn away, man, turn away. That's my underrated moment right there. I know, uh, I know that moment with Harvey Cattel. It's not played for laughs.

57:37 He doesn't play it comedically, but when you watch it like he is, he's so fun to watch in that moment because he's, let's he say something about Cowboy. He goes on Cowboy. He says, I had a horse hit by a car. What is he? Yeah, dude, he's on a He's on another planet. At that point, you know I love him in that minute, he's great, Yeah, what's yours? Yeah? Well, I hate the I hate to be uh like everybody else, But for me, it's it's that painful phone call like that you were talking about. It's like, I'm even watching it recently. I'm like, I don't want to sit here and listen to this guy's desperation and just it's it's painful to watch, you know, the fact that he's the way he frames that shot, even where you know you would think he'd be center of the of the shot, and he's he's off to the right, and then we slowly track past him and we we don't hold on him at that point, we just keep moving. And that that hallway is just that empty hallway is is the conversation. It's like it represents his his emptiness, his loneliness. It's just it's painful. And that's to me, that's that's the moment, like any any chance we had at liking him and him being a good guy.

58:54 It ended in that hallway, right, Yeah, tough one to watch. Yeah, I agreed, Andy, Let's talk words that matter, I think, uh, you know, when we talk about memorable memorable lines from this movie and whether or not they're still relevant, uh you know, you kind of hinted at it, but uh, we we gotta we gotta say, you know, it's it's got to be you're talking to me. You're talking to me, but who the hell else are you talking? Talking to me? Yeah, that's the most quotable. And even the words around it are really great. I think he says like, you know, I'm looking there's nobody else here but me, you know, or whatever he says, you know, you're talking, he's looking around. Yeah, that's just the greatest, you know, And it's just intensity in his eyes. And yeah, that's my favorite too. It's gotta be, uh the script. In the script, it simply states that Travis talks to himself in the mirror. So Scorsese is sitting in front of him at you know, on the floor, you know, filming it, and Daniro's just ad libbin the idea that one of what is it like? Uh, I think it's like number number ten in AFI's Top ten quotes of movie quotes of all time. The fact that you know, Paul Schredder didn't write this dialogue. This is just de Niro ad libin, just saying whatever comes to mind, and it's it's it's iconic.

1:00:22 It's it's think about how many times it's been used in other movies as a comedic device. You know. Yeah, absolutely love it. Man. Yeah, it's overused. You know. It's kind of like, oh, I don't know, it's like this, say net Live. They have that one catchword catchphrase that becomes over so overplayed and you're sick of it, and it just but it's just so perfect though, you know, so I can't not like it. It's just uh yeah, it's just a great moment, you know. And like I said, just that one you're talking to me, but every word around it when he's just you know, yeah, God, he's that intimidating conversation he's having with that you know, that phantom person in front of him. You know, I don't see anyone else. Yeah, so who the hell are you talking to? Yeah, he's he's fantastic.

1:01:13 I'll tell you what I gotta believe is fantastic. Andy, let's talk prequel, sequel remake, because you knock this out of the park time and time again. So let's just address the fact before you before you give us the Andy Tom answer. For years, Scorsase and de Niro have entertained the idea of a sequel that observes Travis Bickel in society today, you know, and I think it was like twenty thirteen, Denia revealed that Paul Schrader had actually written a first draft of a follow up, but him and Scorsese they didn't think it was good enough to move forward with. So the project kind of died and it's been it's been dead ever since. So I'm asking you prequel, sequel, remake when it comes to Taxi Driver, what do you got for us? Well, I'll take I'll take sequel off the table because he's dead, all right, So that does so that can't happen in my work, and you're yeah, and then the yeah, you don't have to move in my world. He's dead, and there is no way to make a sequel, uh the uh remake obviously, And that's another trick question, because you know, you can never remake these movies that were were the ones that I've talked about with you. You can't make these movies. So I would not necessarily prequel, but it would be a movie that would go.

1:02:35 It could fit in the same timeline where it could involve these other at the Belmore is the cafeteria that all the guys sitting in, Yeah, the other cab because look, New York was crazy back then, New York. So what's Peter Boyle's character, Wizard and then wizard he got dough boy, right, Yeah, they'll do anything for a buck. That's why they can go. And the other guy, the black guy, thinks Charlie or something like that. So there you got. Maybe it's a meeting point where these guys, you know, maybe their lives are even crazier than Travis's. You know, so maybe kind of And then you could even have a movie with one of these guys and oh, there's de Niro sitting there and he's so you have that same scene, you know, but now we're following this guy's storyline, you know, and it could be anything. I don't know, there's like I said, New York was nuts. Maybe the guys, you know, run into some mob bosses or I don't know, I would I would think put it in that same world but follow a different character. Now, you know, that's the only thing, and it looked that doesn't really excite me, But it's it's if I had to choose between any of them.

1:03:52 A prequel, I mean, Travis is still kind of unless you go into Vietnam with him, and then that you're that's that's completely different story. It's it might could be interesting, but I would do something called, you know, the Bellmore Cafeteria. Okay, uh can I can I pitch off of your pitch? You said, you know, you don't know how would be interesting. But imagine a world where someone like dough Boy or someone like Wizard is a serial killer in nineteen seventies New York. Yeah, perfect, all right, you know the idea you got one Cabby driving around as a vigilanti, one Cabby driving around as a serial killer in seventy seventy six. That'd be crazy, the son of Sam. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, sure, right crazy. There you go. All right, so listen, I got something for you. You you kind of talked about the idea of a prequel where Travis Bickell is in Vietnam, And that's what I'm gonna give you.

1:04:51 I'm gonna give you a film called Rumble Squad. It's a prequel that shows Bickel and Vietnam. We're gonna go a little bit darker than Oliver Stone's Platoon, and it's all about Bickles platoon doing something horrendous and because he's disgusted by their actions, he takes them all out, which kind of gives birth to his homicidal vigilani u vigilanti tendencies. Okay, and since, uh, since everyone keeps looking at Adam Driver as a as a potential young Neil for the Heat to movie, I'll say Adam Driver as a PFC Travis Bickle in nineteenth nineteen sixty eight, We'll say wow. But wait a minute. You just said Adam Driver for Heat two. Is that something that's been It's been talked about a lot. Uh. He did this new movie with Michael man Ferrari. Okay, Yeah, and everyone's looking at him as like, this is who you pick to play a young de Niro for Heat too. I agree. I really like that guy. I think, oh he's fantastic and he almost has that look. I think that'd be great. Oh, I think it he was. Yeah, he was. He was a marine too, you know. Yeah, yeah, could you see uh could you see could you hear Adam driver's uh like stunted delivery as he's as we're inside his head talking about what he's seeing over there, And yeah, that's that's my that's my that's my pitch. I'm gonna call it rumble squad, you know, because those squads and those platoons they had to have they had to have

1:06:23 some kick ass names, you know, And I just like the idea of like, it's a rumble, you know, it's it's that time like that. You know, it's like a gang fight. They're gonna go in and you know, do the things that other platoons don't want to mohawk kind of Yes, yeah, I could see it. Yeah, all right, what do you uh? Andy, what do you see? What's that? I say? Is it completely different? Now you're in a completely different you're in the jungles, Yeah, in Manhattan, but uh I could see it, Yeah, from from the concrete jungle to the real jungle, you know. Right. All right, well, Andy, let's talk. Let's talk rating. Out of four possible stars, what would you give taxi driver like Roger Ebert gave it four stars. It's four. Rod Riber gave it four, didn't he? Yeah, Roger gave it four. But Ciskel did not like it. If I remember right, Ciskel thought it was brilliant, but he had a problem with the violence. And Rodribert's like, without the violence, it's a different movie exactly. Yeah, he says that end. Yeah, I got that ending. It's a completely different movie. But yeah, I think it's what. Yeah, it is masterpiece. It's one of the best examples of gritty, almost borderline explortation seventy cinema that there is, in my opinion. Yeah, agreed. Well, Andy, it's been a privilege discussing not just Taxi Driver, but several great films from nineteen seventy six with you, and although you're right at home in this decade, I think I hope you'll be back to talk with us more next year. Oh love it.

1:07:53 I would love to anytime. Fantastic Well listen listeners. You can let us know your thoughts about Taxi Driver at www dot afilm by podcast dot com or on our social media channels on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Next time on nineteen seventy six, We're all but out of time and on the run with Michael York and the lovely Jenny Agatter in Logan's Run until that time. Thanks for lending your ears. We'll catch you on the flip side.