Phasers Set To Stun: recapping Discovery: Jinaal

0:04 Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage and debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello, listeners, and welcome back to a new episode of Phasers Set to Stun, where we continue to show our love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every sector of the expanding Star Trek universe by covering television, movies, animation, directors, merchandise, and much much more. Plotting your course on this voyage is your Core Trek crew. I'm Wayne Whiten, I'm David Burnthdamjoe, And before we get started tonight and talk about the new episode, I want to bring up the latest news in the world of Star Trek. For those listeners who haven't heard, Paramount Plus has renewed the series Strange New Worlds for a fourth season. We have the yeah woo, I agree. Yes, we have the third season coming up for us early next year, and we're excited to learn the more adventures with Captain Pike and the Enterprise is coming our way, but also announced was that the upcoming season for Star Trek Lower Decks is the fifth season, will be its last. We've really enjoyed watching and talking about this series as well, and we're sad to hear that it's ending. Yeah. I would

1:37 love to see so much more from Lower Decks. I really really would too. We maybe we're going to be in for a great year. I know it sure, and it's it's been a great ride so far. We're, you know, really looking forward to seeing what the Serrita's crew have in store for us later this year. Well, now we are truly into the mission that is Star Trek Discovery Season five, the series final season. The first two episodes, which we covered in the last podcast, has us traveling from Starfleet headquarters to the deserts of q Maw, then to the burial planet Lyric, and now the mystery of the Progenitor's secrets are beginning to unfold. But we still have quite a journey ahead of us until we get to that finish line. I got to give you credit for getting through those planets. Man, that's me too. Wow, that's Supressus. You got like this phonetic thing right up there, ready, for it I do. Today we are looking in on episode three titled Jannal, written by Kyle Harrow and Lauren Wilkinson and directed by Andy Rmenjurian. So this is black alert, folks. There are spoilers ahead, and if you haven't seen this episode, please stop and beam yourself to the nearest television set to catch it on Paramount Plus. Then come back and rejoin us for this discussion. All right, Scott, why don't you give us a short summary of the episode. Janell is the name of an eight hundred year old Trill symbion who holds the latest clue to this season's mystery. We follow Discovery back to the Trill home world to tap into

3:08 Jannell's memory and find where another piece of the puzzle is hiding on Trill. As part of the away team, this trip allows Adira to reunite with Gray for the first time in several months to talk about their relationship the Guy. The rest of the team includes doctor Culbert, who absorbs Jannell's consciousness as a guide for Captain Burnham and Cleveland Booker to pursue the progenitor artifact. Meanwhile, back in Discovery, First Officer Rayner reluctantly meets the rest of the crew in twenty words of less at a time while frustrating Tilly. And we also continue to follow Ambassador Saru as he tries to balance his relationship with Trina and whose responsibilities to the Federation. So there's a lot to pack into this episode, but I got to say, my personal opinion, this felt like it's a step in the right direction. It felt like it was starting to get to more of a place where we're seeing more interaction with the rest of the crew, and we got Srew back, which is great because I thought it was over last episode. That made me kind of said, yeah, that was my biggest concern too, because they already see through it all anymore. But they had a good balance of that for sure in this episode. Yeah.

4:17 Yeah, I really enjoyed the episode more than the last two. I'm starting to like this this build up of the story, you know, the hunt for the progenitors more. It's starting to feel like like an old fashioned race to the finished story, which you know it kind of is this is being the last season. Yeah, I like that, you know, the return to the planet trail, you know, it's something that we never really saw too much on Deue Space nine, with the exception of the the Symbio Caves, which is pretty much all we saw when it appeared last in season three. But now we got to see a little bit more, not much, but a little bit more, you know, adding to the mythology of the trails. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that the of Trill was fantastic.

5:01 I thought it was a bold move where they decided to go with Trill. How it seemed to become a little bit secluded from everybody else that had pulled back from a lot of other worlds, it seemed like, and there's still this kind of air of protection, kind of like, you know, making sure that they know who's coming into the coming down to the surface, beaming down to the surface, whatever you want to say. I think it opens up a lot more potential to use the Trill species, which I would love to see, especially if they can you know, whether it's in the past or again in the future or whatever. They're they're doing a great job of cracking open and cracking that open a little bit more. I do want to see that opening shot where it went right into the ship that yes, man, Yeah, that was impressive. Yeah, well, I thought it was really it was a clever use of the the trill spots. I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, that was so cool. Yeah, you know, and I also liked the way the episode used doctor Calber. I always thought he's a fascinating character. Some seasons we've got more of him than others, you know, the fact that here he's got so much to do, and and the way Wilson Cruz played the new personality, the trill personality that was in him just looked like he was having a lot of fun doing it.

6:33 Yeah, you know, he plays it so much different than he does Doctor Colber, a lot more you know, energy, a lot more wisdom to the character, which it's already a fun character in the first place. It's so he's been one of the highlights of the series watching him and his character develop, you know. Plus I like I like the scenes between Tilli and Rainer. I really enjoyed those. You know, Tilly's just been one of those characters, another one that I've either liked her or hated he or one of her off screen, you know, depending on you know, her level or annoyance. But here I thought I really liked her relationship or you know how much she didn't like Rayner and didn't like the way he seemed to be bullying the crew. But I think by the end of this episode, they both came out with a bigger, a better, new respect for one another, which I mean, any growth to these characters I'll appreciate. Oh yeah.

7:32 One of the things that I thought was really neat too, is when they were in the bar and you know, he basically threw back at her. He knew who they were, you know, even though he got that little bit of time with them, he knew them. But then un till he threw it back at him. It takes more than just that, you know, to know who they are. You get you know, you got to really get to know them. So I really liked that relationship than two of them in this episode, especially until he just had enough and she just blew up. That took some guts right there to do that. Yeah, I gotta admit, like, you know, as much as I like Tilly having the chance to you know, have fun as a character. You know, I think Champagne Tilly that we were seeing in the past two episodes was one of the points where I was like, oh no, come on, used toll be better, and then in this episode it really came around, like you see exactly why she belongs as the head of the future of Starfleet, or at least heavily involved in it by training new recruits. Her handling of that situation in the bar was picture perfect. The way that she told him off in twenty words, ye for less, that was a great stop right there, to say you're being a big that's twenty That says it all.

8:50 But yeah, she understands the use of interpersonal dynamics and what that means to accrue. And she even when you see the scene where she's kind of off and sits with our friends and you see, you know Rayner kind of reflect on that and say like, not only can I see the benefit of maybe being more of that guy in the future, but probably all really probably finding another opportunity to recognize Tilly is a true leader, which is something I thought was great about the previous two episodes. So yeah, I totally agree. There's some fantastic till the episodes, and I was sad to see her go, honestly, but glad she's back for this. I'm glad she had the role that she did. Yeah, it seemed like they were getting rid of some of the characters, but her and both sorrow, which I liked his scenes. I still don't know where they're going with the character. I still have my theories, but he's still there. He's still playing a part in the storyline. So I'm glad he's there because, as we mentioned last epise, he's one of our favorite characters from the series. Oh yeah, absolutely. One of the things I like about this episode two is I love an episode when it's edited really well and the trends ysicians this episode had when it was moving back and forth between different scenes. One of them in particular was the great Kramer transition when Saru was discussion was having the discussion and then they moved to the planet with Burnham, Colbert, and Booker like walking that transition between those two scenes are phenomenal. Yeah, it was. That was good. I remember that. Yeah, I mean to go back to your

10:24 earlier point, way about Culbert and Wilson. Cruz's performance in this fantastic YEP like. He puts so much depth and careful thought into his character. It was great to see him be able to kind of cut loose a little bit and have some fun, but his kind of reflective moments when he's thinking about what he just went through and how he feels about that. I thought that was great. I thought it was in great use too. Very happy to see more Wilson cruise here. Yep. I liked how Janelle was testing them, you know, when you know, he took him to the spot where that piece was at, but it really wasn't there, and he was just testing him to see what they were going to do. And then how Booker and Burnham was able to get out of that. You know, I thought I thought that was all put together really well. Yeah, that was one of my A Burnham highlight for me, saying like, you know, I've got this background as a xenior anthropologist, so here's how I'm going to approach this. It was like, yes, more more Burnham exercising those kind of scenes not necessarily having to be in on the action. I understand that's that's a lot of fun, but I I don't know. I just we talked about that last time a little bit, and I'm kind of I'm trying to quiet that kind of perception when I get into these episodes because I don't want to, you know, affect how watching it or anything else like that.

11:52 It did feel like this time when they were when Burnham was part of the mission or leading the away mission, it felt like it made a little bit more sense in this situation, which was nice to see just sub explanation behind that's fine, but yeah, it felt like they were putting that the writers the producers put more thought into this episode to make it more important, the story more important, rather than just saying, you know, what would look cool this this week. You know, I really appreciate that because that has been a problem for me with a lot of the new Trek, which you know, it seems like just a lot of scenes that have been thrown together out of just pulled out of a pool that you know, hey, this looks cool, this looks cool. But this this here, we've got an actual development in the story and advancement, and I appreciate that. In advancement for the characters. I thought, there's some pretty good character development in this episode that we've kind of been missing, and you know that that felt warming to me. One of the things I really enjoyed too, was at the end with the transitions between the crew members and you know, Gray was giving that dialogue over top of all of that as we're moving back and forth from I thought that was really really well done in this episode. Yeah, I agree, totally agree. Yeah, I think some of the other kind of depth that we got from Book and I'm always I'm always checking myself to say,

13:22 like, is it Book or Booker, And I know that both are used, but I keep thinking of Firefly and Serenity and I'm like, wait, no, I'm a shepherd book anyway. But the ability to communicate with animals, I thought that was used to great effect when it was working. I thought it was used to even better effect when it wasn't working. And there are some things like the Mission Impossible ghost protocol when it's one of those places where nothing seems to be working, that I think is a great dramatic device. And to see that happening here was will be like, Okay, now you can't depend on the you know, snap your fingers and grow a phaser kind of technology or the you know, nightcrawler transporter tech that they have right now, which I thought was used in a clever way during the action sequences, but was also I still don't see how that happens. You know, have people just like teleporting into a rock face. I'm sure they tech doesn't make it happen, but we were recently talking about this, like, I don't know how that happens without a team, but yeah, yeah, no, it's another example of you know, they didn't explain it, you're just supposed to accept it, right exactly. I also noticed a non franchise Easter Egg Dave with the lethal weapon one two three sequence where they're like, okay, is it on three? Like one two? Oh? Yeah, like one and go. I was like, oh my god, that's the

14:52 other weapon too. That was really weird. And she pulled it on him again too, when she had to pull that out of his leg, right, yeah, yeah, to call it special effect again, I know we've been talking about that a lot, you know already, but those creatures were freaking fantastic. Oh, very impressive. Yeah. And what they were shooting out of them, oh man, that was so cool. Yeah, yeah, that was a great effect. It had almost like like an arrowhead with an octopus tide to it or something. Yeah, Like it would stick into the thing and then square them a little bit and then phase out. Right. That's pretty cool. Yeah, the visual effects this season have really been impressed. I mean, the visual effects have always be impressive in Discovery, but it seems like the lesser amount of episodes, you know, they're only have been doing ten rather than thirteen, they may have been able to move a lot of that money to the FX budget, and it really it shows if they did. Yeah, I want to say one more thing about the twenty words or less sequence. Okay, it was a great way to bring more of the cast in. It was and let more of those characters shine, even though it's kind of a you know, it's an odd challenge and probably doesn't get you to learn about people as much as you should, but characters like Linus. I appreciate the character of Linus a lot. Sometimes it hits better than others. But uh, and Jet Reno. I think the

16:23 responses in that sequence part of the reason that Reno is one of my favorite characters on Discovery. Not necessarily in every episode, but the introduction of Reno and a lot of the dialogue the way you know, Stanletts has taken down a few pegs, and I think that's gonna be a good foil for Rainer too, and somebody who can kind of, you know, meet Rainer where he is with his approach. So so now that we've given our opinions on the episode, let's take a look at the characters themselves. Which can Eric do you think shines the most this week? David, We've already talked about a bit, but it's doctor Culber, you know, as he got to have jen all with him inside of him and experienced something that not many people get to experience, and he got to explore a lot more emotions and have fun with that more so than we have seen with that character. And then even how he was able to reflect upon that at the end, you know, the scene with him and Burnham, I thought a way that all wrapped together was really well done. So I have to go with doctor Culber on this one. For me, it's what we had talked about a little bit before. Tilly's entire kind of mini arc with Rainer shows a lot of range there. There was a lot of diplomatic reserve work in Deep Breaths reminded me of a I forget what the name of the episode was, but in Next

17:56 Generation we covered one where Wharf had escort a a diplomat, and no, we didn't talk about that one, so there's one of the episodes where they had three different people that were interacting with Picard to learn more about love, one that interacted with Troy to learn more about like, you know, pursuing things that, oh, you know what I'm talking about, like the chocolates and all this other kind of stuff. Then there was one that was like antagonizing Wharf to no end, and it felt like Tilly was kind of channeling that energy a little bit. This one just like I'm gonna help this guy, but I'm not gonna like it. And the way that it was resolved wasn't like, you know, we sit at a bar, we talked about this, and now we're chums. Everything's going to be fine. It was more like, no, we talked about it. You see where I'm coming from, I see where you're coming from. But if you want to be part of this crew, just know that you have to grow a little bit and walks away, just giving him a chance. It was nice to know that they're not going to just wrap things up in a tight little bell Yep.

18:57 Well, I'm gonna have to go with David's choice as well. I chose doctor Calber, even though he's not really doctor calber for most of the episode, you know. All but like I said before, it really looks like Wilson Cruz was having the time of his life in the episode, and he was given some of the best lines, the best story parts parts this week. You know, He's just one of the characters on Discovery that the writers at times tend to shove in the background, has like one or two lines per episode sometimes, so it was really nice this week to see him not only play a bigger part, but an important part to moving the story forward. Yeah, and the line when he stood up and goes, man, this guy really works. That must work out. Yeah, that a little bit of Wilson Cruise being like, yeah, all right, exactly.

19:47 I guess if you're eight hundred years old and you're suddenly thrown into a younger body, you would think that too. True. Oh, if you had any choice to be any character that appeared in this episode, which one would it be? And why, Scott, I'll have you start this one. So for this one, I'd say Paul Stamets, who I've got to say I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing how Stammits has changed and the arc that's followed there, Like considering how he was in the beginning, very very impersonal and standoffish. There's a little bit of that there, but he's also grown a lot. And the reason that I would choose him for this episode is I just want to know more about what he discovered about the progenitor technology. That scene finally gave me an idea for why we should care about progenitor tech. It almost seems like it's the anti prime directive right as far as you can go and interfere with the development of life, the restriction of that the design of that resurrection, which I'm hoping isn't like a buried gun that you know, they have to wrestle with whether or not have to bring somebody back from the dead.

21:02 But I think you had some great explanations. They're some great exposition to kind of walk us through that. So I'd just be fascinated to, you know, be in the lab and see what kind of things they dug up. Dave, what about you. I have to go with Tilly on this one. I would I want to give her the line back and say I can walk at you gum at the same time too, back to Rainer, I just I just would like to be per for just the fact that she was able to give that back to Rainer like that. I mean, the guy is an arrogant, you know what, and it was nice for somebody to stand her ground against him Burnham has. But Burnham is different. Burnham is a captain, you know, and she can do that. But to have somebody, you know, like Tilly, to be able to hold her ground against somebody of that caliber, just I love that very very much.

21:53 And that issue I wouldn't want to have been for sure. What about you, Well, I'm going to be up against you because I'm choosing Commander Rainer again. Oh just because I like his character. You know, he's now the first officer on the Discovery that that's a cool position to be in my opinion. I like the way that I just I like his his personality is his wrong personality. I just I find just something just kind of attract that's what the right word. Something that something interesting about the character. But uh, you know, it's a genius way of learning about you know, some of the characters. And and and you know, I was worried at first about this. You know, he's coming in, it's a new character that's being introduced to Discovery right here at the end of the story. You know, you always you have to think, you know, is this you know, going to be Discovery as a cousin Oliver? But you know, I think he's He's going to be turning out to be a very interesting part of the story. Yeah. Yeah, I can see there being a lot more interational between Rayner and Tilly, Yeah for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And the way that that I don't know first meeting with a lot of the crew was organized where he was saying, look, I want to keep learning about this stuff. I'll fit in learning about the crew, but I cat to keep going. That was an interesting way about it, to keep him working

23:25 and just know what kind of a guy he is. It might not be the kind of person we've seen on Discovery so far and the person that we're used to, but I think it's good to change things up a little bit. Yep. All right, Now comes my favorite part when we dive deep into the episode and see if we can't pull out any Easter eggs, and there were a couple. We again got a mention of the Breen, which we've only ever seen behind masks on the later seasons of Deep Space nine. So we still don't know what they look like. I think I have an idea that we actually be seeing and getting an answer to that mystery this season here on Discovery. I believe one of our newer characters may possibly be a Breen, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens later on once he reappears. I love that theory, by the way, A brilliant idea.

24:17 Yeah, and I hope it's true. I do too. And another thing we did see during the negotiations scene with Sorrow and the other delegates, I believe that that cobra head alien that could be a seil which is an alien that we haven't seen for a long time that appeared back on the Next Generation's very first season episode Lonely among Us. It certainly looked like one. I'm curious to see if anyone else thinks that as well. I don't know is that the thing that Q appeared as at one point, No, No, Lonely among Us was an episode where there were two delegations that were fighting the Seilas, which were like a Cobal like specie and in the antikins. Yeah, they got their own action figures, so it must have been a big episode, know ye see merchandising, merchandising. And another big thing that I really pulled from this episode is Janelle mentions that the discovery of the Progenitor's technology happened during the Dominion War, which that was the main story for Deep Space nine final four seasons. But that means it happens sometime before the year twenty three seventy five, which makes that roughly about six years after Captain Picard and the Enterprise learned of the Progenitors and the episode of the Chase, So we finally got some way of actually timing when a lot of this happened.

25:36 Yeah, was me? Was it me? Or was it weird to hear Picard's name come from Burnham? It is? It is. It's just a strange, you know, from someone who who you know, wasn't around when Picard was. You know, she comes from what like seventy eighty years before that, but she's done her homework, done her research. Yeah, absolutely, all right, we've seen the trailers for the upcoming episode and the rest of the season. Now that we have three episodes behind us, what do we think is going to happen next? Well, I think the next episode what faced the Strange. Yeah, that's the name of it. Weird name. The one little clip that I saw had some kind of like little weird spider or something like that crawling around. I'm like, Okay, this looks like this is gonna be creepy. Wayne's gonna love this episode. Yeah, that episode, Yeah, might have some strong opinions about that. Yeah, it seems like it's going to be one of those chaos on the ship.

26:33 Yeah, ken of moments where it's you know, sabotaging various systems and all this other kind of stuff. So that could be a good way to draw in more of the crew that we're looking for. Yeah, a lot more of the people that we've seen throughout the ship, giving everybody, you know, their fair amount of time. But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens there. Hope hopefully we'll get a little bit of a horror vibe with it, because that's kind of what I got with the scene that I watched, what I was thinking too, That's how I got a feeling. Yeah, so that would be really cool. It's gonna have us all like, you know, brushing our shoulders and yeah, etching the whole time, and you know on the season trailer, there were a few things that I noticed that were pointed out to me. I think we may be in for a surprise appearance from someone that we're very familiar with everybody. I won't reveal it yet, but go back and check that trailer and watch it. Be very very vigilant and check it. If frame by frame you might see something you recognize this, this is what we talked about yesterday. It is okay, yeah, yeah, go back and watch that trailer. Because I didn't realize either too. You mentioned like, oh hey, look it is just don't blink. Yeah, So I got I got a question for you guys.

27:45 So we're talking about what we're going to see next, what we think is gonna happen. I believe a lot of us have recently discovered that Starfleet Academy, a new series is coming, is going to be during the time period of Discovery. Do you think, I mean, we don't know how season going to end with Discovery, but do you think that we may see through have some kind of involvement with it. I do, I do. I don't expect this series or Discovery, the crew of the Discovery to like go back to their original time. I expect them to continue on in this time, and I expect to Starfleet Academy to be the successor for the series.

28:25 Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see how characters like surrou It seems pretty obvious then that Tilly may be involved. I would just start at that point. Yeah, but yeah, Dave, as you were talking through that, it just makes me think about the potential for start Fleet Academy and what it could be because now, you know, usually we get kind of mission by mission. Occasionally you get to focus on engineering, you get to focus on medical whatever, right, But there's a lot more depth that we can go into. And when you think about, you know, the different professors, the different callbacks that we might get from that, just the sheer number of students. I assume they're probably going to be a core cast of students. It might also be focusing on the professors. So a lot of interesting potential there. We'll see what happens. And it doesn't surprise me that they're actually doing this series, because this is the first time they've tried to get a Starfleet Academy series started. I remember back just before the production of Star Trek six, there was a lot of talk about being the six Star Trek film film, being a Starfleet Academy film. I don't think it got any farther than a scripting stage. But you know, they've tried to before.

29:41 This doesn't surprise me at all that they're trying it again, and it could be interesting. You know, I'm always on with any Star Trek series, any new one. I'm always going to wait and see how I like it. I'll be there, I'll watch it. You know it starts. I watch everything Star Trek. What was the tech that they used for the voyager dot? Oh, that was the the the holographic admitters they had. It was like a holid deck inside the h are you talking about the like the like the what he was called, Oh, the emergency medical uh m h emergency medical holographic doctor. Gotcha. Impressive, I'd be I'd be very interested to see if they use that technology to give us a Professor Boimler.

30:32 Oh WI like that. That would be really neat. You could get anybody and just you know, transfer the AI and then you've got you know, maybe a little bit of gray. But I love to see some lower deckers come back. I think that would make a lot of people happy. You know, I'm sure people have seen on the internet there's was quite an uprising about the cancelation of Lower Decks. I'll admit I'm kind of upset. I love the series. It's hilarious. Yeah. Well, if you haven't watched, go watch it. It's it's a great series. So, you know, my theory is that Paramount Plus has now put a cap on the Star Trek series five years. We got five years of Discovery, now we've got five years of Lower Decks, and I expect Strange New Worlds will probably go five years. So that's probably the reason it's which in that case, it's not a cancelation, it's just an ending. I hope we do see the character. I hope it's not the end of those characters. I agreed, well, and hopefully there's also a pattern we're seeing with like section thirty one, developing right movies or continuation movies. Absolutely keep those coming, especially what you can see an animated movie for lower decks. They always bring it with the animation quality and the production quality, and that seen on a movie scale, it would be amazing. That would be a perfect way of continuing it.

31:48 Yeah. Yeah, and that's it for this episode of Phasers Set to Stuns look at Discovery season five, episode three. We'd like to open a chain to our listeners and hear just what you thought about the most recent episode and the season in general. Who knows you might even be mentioned on a future show. Of course, you can email us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com, find us online at a film by podcast dot com, follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And if you're looking for more exclusive content our swag, you can join our Patreon and find out what exclusive gyms are hidden within. Thank you Scott and David for joining me and the listeners for another fascinating episode. Thanks thanks waiting for leaving us true yep, And as we mentioned, next episode, we take a look at episode four titled Face Thestrange. We're looking forward to returning to the thirty second century again next week on Phaser's Set to Stun