Phasers Set To Stun: recapping Discovery: Mirrors

0:04 Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage in debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phaser Set the Stun, where we continue our show of love for Everything Star Trek and this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of Trek by covering television, animation, movies, directors and more. Plotting the course as always is your core track. Crew. I'm David Burns, I'm Scott Hoffmann, and I'm Wayne Whited. We continue our journey in the thirty second century with Star Trek Discovery Season five, Episode five, Black Alert spoiler the head So if you haven't seen this episode, please stop, go view it and come back to join us. Wayne please give us a synopsis of this newest episode and the episode is entitled Mirrors, written by Joanna Lee and Carlos Cisco, directed by Jen McGowan. Following the trail left by mol and Locke, the USS Discovery discovers an nonstable wormhole and when Burnham and Booker enter the wormhole with using a shuttle, they find the remains of the Iss Enterprise after its escape

1:37 from the Mere Universe. Burnham retrieves the next piece of the Progenitor's puzzle on board, along with a clue to find the next one, but becomes stranded on board the Enterprise along with mol and Lack, and are forced to strike a deal with the pair if they hope to get out of the wormhole alive. So, gentlemen, how about seeing the ISS Enterprise? What fifty seven years ago was the last time we saw it? Is that correct? That's correct? Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty interesting to see that, Wayne, you were you were? You said we were going to see the Enterprise. We just didn't know which one, right, Yeah, that's that's right. You know. I we knew it was coming because we saw that shot in the trailer, that very brief shot, and and I predicted last episode that it would be in this one, uh hm. And I really guessed that it was going to be the Mirror Universe one just because of the title of the episode. That's really the only reason. I So I'm like absolutely pleased that for once my predictions are right. You know, I'm terrible predicting things, Scott. You remember my prediction for Lower Decks with with this mysterious ship.

2:40 I thought it was going to be from the mirror. Oh yeah, you know I was really off on that one. So plus, you know, I accurately guessed that Locke was Breen too. It did, and I was really I just pulled that out of my ass. So well, you're a cube of Q on this msod body so well done. No matter where it comes from, you we're still right, that's right. Yeah, So we're continuing the good episode that we had last episode because this one was just as good. I was very involved in this story. Again. The special effects were fantastic. When the with the wormhole opening and closing, how unique that was in itself. But so much in this episode happened. But you know, not to jump to the end real quick, but how they pulled the Enterprise through the wormhole and then getting them out of and then watching it implode, that was just such an incredible scene. It was very impressive.

3:32 Yeah, I think it's so. I don't know if this is accurate. I'm gonna trust that m Deba knows what they're talking about. But According to the IMDb, this is the nine hundredth episode of the Star Trek franchise. Oh it is Wow damn, which is kind of a yeah. So it seems like it's kind of appropriate with this episode because you get crossover with Strange New Worlds, obviously it's Discovery again DS nine crossover with the Breed, and you get obviously the through the threat of the progenitors with Next Generation. So there's a lot of connections. There's a lot of connections in this one, huh in the original series with the ISO centerprise, right true. Yeah, So this episode really gives us the background of Moll and Lock, and you know, we finally get to see, you know, how they met and their involvement with one another and what's going on. And I got to say, I was very involved with their story because I wanted to know what was going on with them. But it really made me appreciate these two characters a whole lot more than I started off with at the beginning of the season, which I was still interested in them, but this one gave me a lot more of their characters that I wanted to dive into. And I got to tell you and I think I've mentioned as almost in every episode that we've covered in Discovery this year. But the editing is phenomenal. It is in this episode how they kept going, how they edited back and forth, going through the past with more in Locke and then coming to the present day. Some

5:04 of those shots how they just transitioned were incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it does a lot to help to tell the story, and it makes it so it's not so jarring when you're going between past and present. I absolutely agree that they're hitting their stride with this. I'm definitely more engaged with the main thread, definitely more invested in Mall and Locke. I think it's you know I had said last time, I was assuming that something with Mirrors would not only include what Wayne had said about you know, mirror universe, but that there would be kind of parallels that we're seeing between Michael and Booker and mal In Locke, with Mole's origins as a as a courier, Locke being somebody who is in a certain position that's kind of expected within his within society getting a chance to break out and be something more. I'm really glad that that's where they're starting to go with these characters and get them more depth and give them more what we had seen last time where it was kind of like, you know, they're on the run. It makes so much more sense what they're doing now knowing about the I'm not going to try to pronounce the word, but basically, like a what do they say in Star Wars, it's a death so we had a death bounty or something like that. It's hard to shake. So the equivalent of that with the breed and knowing that if they don't make a deal like this, there's no way that they'll ever stop

6:36 running. We learned a lot of backstory. There was a lot of story in this episode, and it was a lot to process, I will admit, but I thought the episode flowed nicely and made it easy to follow, which was really needed in this episode. I love how they're building the mystery of the Progenitor's tech and all the clues that they're leading. It's leading us to them and and you know, then we got the whole story with the Moulln lock and how they matchine teamed up at their whole backstory. You know, we're getting a little bit size pieces of the full story each episode, you know, allowing us to start making our own predictions of where the series is gone, where it's going to end. I think that's what I enjoy most about what they've been doing and why this episode is so good is that that you know, that is just feeding us all in just little bits of dialogue, they're actually showing us and letting us follow the story along with the characters. They have some good action and fighting sequences in this episode that I thought were choreographed really well, and I love the the mull in lock cloning effect when they went into there and they felt like they were all over there and I absolutely loved that. And then they just basically had to charge in and you start the fight and stuff like that. But then you get like that that standoff, you know, which kind of forces them to team up with one another in order to solve how to get off of the enterprise, and then you know, when they lose their shout and everything, it isn't, well, how the hell are they going to get out of this one?

8:05 It just it was so I love a good story where it teems up some of our heroes with some villains, and they did this extremely well and in this situation. Yep, yeah, for sure, especially the you know the fight within the sick bay between Burnham and Locke, and I think that the end of that fight leaves you with a sense of empathy, like I found myself in that fight scene not necessarily cheering on either adversary. It was more like I was hoping that the fight would stop right because you know what's on the line, and you know that it's somebody who's desperate. Doesn't necessarily understand the consequences of what Locke is is about to do, but it just it helps to kind of accelerate the tension when you're hoping that neither one gets critically injured. So it was. It was very well written, I think it. I do want to put out something very fun. I want to point out something very humorous from the last episode. Apparently Rayner and Burnham learned their lesson. Instead of warping to the next room, they walked to the next room. Yes, yes, yeah, it's given them a little bit of pause to use that automatic transporter. Yeah, all right, you learned your lesson. Well done. I also liked the that you mention it that discussion that they have initially before the mission begins. I feel like Rayner the circumstance did a great job of kind of pointing out, like, Okay,

9:35 hold on a second and take a breath. I know that you're talking about leading this away mission, but you're the captain and one of my jobs is first officer, and personally, my you know, concern for you means that I need to try to protect you as much as possible. So are you taking a security detail? Does it really have to be that's going all this other kind of stuff? And I know that an undercurrent of that was, you know, maybe some personal concerns from Ranger's perspective about being in charge. But I love that it addressed something that has kind of been bothering me on a bunch of episodes about how often Burnham is on the way team or leading the way team or so so crucial to it. She's not doing an amazing job, but just like but it's the captain. He's correct, though.

10:26 You know, Riker had that same conversation with the card back in the early seasons of Next Generation, exactly the same concerns. He's right, he's as the first officer to do that. Yeah, said, you did bring this up. I want to say it was the first episode that we talked about this season. You brought that up, and it's funny that they addressed that in this episode, which it needed to be done for sure. But again, I feel like we're seeing growth and Rainer. Yes, you know, yes we saw a lot of growth last episode, but we're seeing it again in this one. You know, when he's on the bridge and he's having to make some decisions and leaning on you know, the people on the bridge that he's not normally used to, but you just see he's almost nervous at times, but understands his role in his position and he obviously doesn't want to make the wrong decision, so you know, he has to really put himself into a place that you know, he's got to lean on his crew, and it shows that in this episode, and that was a great scene, the scene with him on the bridge with the rest of the crew trying to come up with solution. One thing I didn't notice about Rainer. I'm not sure if you guys notice he had he would not sit down in the CATS's chair. He refused to sit down in a capture chair. Never once did he walked around it. He had his hand on it, but he never sat down. And I think that's a very interesting character trait that they've added to that character. Rainer h I hadn't noticed that, but that is brilliant.

11:52 I mean, he's so active and involved that it doesn't seem like he'd be content to sit still. But it also seems like kind of a sign of responc like I'm here in this support capacity, but I'm not going to try to, you know, replace or succeed. I think there were there were two big growth opportunities that I was glad to see them take in in Michael's sense, learning about the ballad from Rayner's culture and using that as a way to connect That shows you know, I'm as invested in you as I am in the rest of this crew. And it was used appropriately. It didn't seem like it was forced or anything else like that. By the same token, Rayner uses an aspect of his own personality that he started with the twenty words or less, and he uses that to practical effect with staments, which I think was great. It's kind of like almost if you're a writer for the franchise and you're just saying, Okay, we're going to kind of cut the exposition down a little bit because we need to keep see moving along, So twenty words are less and he says, Okay, I get it.

13:00 Here's the bottom line of what we need to do. That was really well done and it was great to see those both used to show how they their differences in leadership, but also how they use those to the right effect. Yeah. Well, and Burnham uses that ballad to reach out to Rayner to say, hey, it's me here, this is what you need to do. Yeah, absolutely clever. Yeah, it's great that these these little callbacks where we're seeing them later on each in each episode. You know, everything's starting to connect. But there is one thing, if I had any I don't exactly want to call it a problem or anything with the episode. It's not specifically this episode. It's it all depends on where we're going here.

13:41 I thought it was really neat that we saw the I S. S. Enterprise, But but why why why did we see it? Why was it here? You know, what's it have to do with the overall story. It could have been any ship, you know, it could have been the Valiant, the Defiant, you know, which is the one that disappeared during the the Tholian Crisis. I will be really disappointed if they just ignore that and the whole Mere Universe thing, it doesn't come into place somewhere in this storyline that's coming up. I hope that this doesn't just turn out to be one of those you know, wouldn't it be cool if we did this moment for the series. I want this to be part of this overall storyline. I wanted to come back, and they're doing it with other stuff.

14:22 I hope we see more of them. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I'd be surprised if that doesn't have some kind of connection to the section thirty one movie. Yeah, or possibly even something we see in you know, Strange New Worlds when it comes back. I hope it does. I do, Yeah, Yeah, I do do. I find it interesting. You know. Of course, after the wormhole imploded, you know, we get to keep the ship, you know, and they find it off because they're gonna obviously probably try to fix it to use it in a Yeah, a really great old ship. So I'm hoping you're right way, and I hope that's going to come into play later down the eard. I mean, we've only got what five more episodes to go, right, so we don't have much room to wiggle with here. So I'm hoping they're going to do something with it, because why else would they show that scene at the end, right, I mean why? I mean, you know, as a standalone episode, watching it, you got to ask, you know, why are we doing this? Why? Why is this here? Is it just just to be O we think this is neat? But if they connected to the story, then I'll appreciate this in the writers much more. Yeah. I tell you another scene that I found very interesting too was we get a little bit of Tilly obviously recognizing something wrong with Colbert and you know, he starts to tell her something, but obviously stuff is happening and she has to take care of, you know, helping with communications to you know, reach out to Burnham and stuff like that. But we get to see more of that at the end of this episode between those two characters. I like the fact that, you know, Colbert is this one who's always been there, you know, to help, you know, to fix people and you know those

15:52 kind of things, but you know he needs it too, Untilly recognizing that and you know, him actually reaching out to her. I think that was a character growth for both of them. Two. Definitely, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, I liked the yep, the evolution of the Breed. Yes, it was welcome and surprising in so many ways in terms of audio and visuals. So I think the effect that they use for the whatever you call a voice processor for the Breed that we've always read on DS nine was great to know that there's a choice that they can change that much more defined in this episode. Yeah, with Deep Space sign it was just gipperation and that's what it sound like. It sounded like electronic gibbers. Here it sounded a little bit more like it actually could be a language that could be understood.

16:42 Yeah, exactly, No, it's just and I like the fact that Locke made him speak so she could understand him. Yes, yes, that was cool. Yes, yes, interesting. They have new helmets that caused me to have a little bit of a time slip because I was like, oh is this for wait a second, this is after DS nine, So they involved the helmets. There are still the similarities, but obviously they lost the return of the Jedi Bosh helmets, probably because of trademark troubles with the Disney Mothership. But when they took off their helmets, it was another It was a callback to the first meaning of luck where he had kind of that transformation moment, seeing that that they have a choice in the appearance did they take on and just the look of them and that alternate look with the kind of the translucent look. It reminded me of the old Tron figures or the Christar figures were growing up. Yeah, So I'd love to see one of those if they if they have the chance. Yeah. Again, incredible special effects that they do in this series is fantastic, you know. All right, Well, let's talk about which character we think shine the most Scott to me, it's Cleveland Booker, Okay, his moment of sharing what he genuinely want, genuinely wants to help Mal m hm remember reminding us that he lost

18:18 Quajon and the impact that that has on him and thinking of Mal as the last family that he has. And yes he has a relationship with Michael, he has a lot of friends, but actual personal ownership and concern for Mal and taking a chance to set wray what his namesake got wrong as a father, right, feeling empathy for what's motivating her and trying to find a diplomatic solution to try to reach her instead of just you know, beating her to the next cliff. Well, I think it's a two for I think this was mull Inlocke's story. We got to learn so much about them and their motivation for what they're doing. You know, why they want the Prigenitor's technology.

19:08 It's quite a jump for their characters. You know, we learned that they got the brain bounty on their heads, which, like you said, he kind of give me a Hansole and Chebacco vibe with them. Yeah, it does. Yeah, And then you know, we got to see the flashbacks where they met and and why they were together, which I really appreciate the series doing rather than just some quick passing dialogue about it. You know, it's making me sympathetic for these characters and which makes me want to see them more. And that's a good sign of it's a sign of some great character development for the writers, and it pulls you into the story more. When you do it that way, you just give me some throw off dialogue. Okay, sure, fine, whatever, I'm not gonna be as interested.

19:51 But when you go back and actually show me the themes, you care about showing us the themes, then obviously that's going to make me be more involved with their story and who they are other who they're becoming. So yeah, exactly, absolutely sure. What about you? So for me, I gotta go with Male. We're finally getting to see those walls come down and we get to see who she is and how much she cares about Locke because I mean, we know they care about one another, but we didn't know why or how or you know, how deep that went. But I also got to give it to Eve Harlowe who plays Mold. I think she's shining in this episode as an actress. Yeah, she really pulled off a lot in this one. Uh, you know, her care of Locke and then you're having to deal with Booker and then you know when she comes back and then she sees that, you know, Locke is injured. There's so much going on in this episode for everybody really, but for ma I think she is the one for me that shine the most. And Star Trek it has a tendency of giving, you know, one dimensional villain characters at times.

20:47 She's definitely not one of them. Oh yeah, not at all, not at all. Well, if you could be any character in this episode, who would it be? And why? Scott? Well, it's a character we didn't see, and I had to make a choice when choosing this too, I think you know where I'm going. Ultimately, I went with Debtmer getting to fly the ISS Enterprise next Destination with Awoshikun in command. I love this pair and the relationship that they have. I'm a big fan of Debtmer at the Helm. Seems like it would be a fun trip for them, and there'd be plenty of time on that bridge to explore with not a lot of pressure, possibly an interesting side story of, you know, getting from point A to point B. I hope it doesn't mean that they're not going to come back to highly doubt it, but it would be great to be able to explore there. I also kind of wonder if the I'm going to flub on the name of the doctor in Strange New Worlds that has a daughter that was kind of kept in a buffer, Remember who I'm talking about?

21:55 Yes, and Benga, thank you very much. So I kind of wonder if there's something similar going on with you SS Enterprise. I know they said that everybody's evacuated, you know, all the escape pods are gone, all this other kind of stuff, But yeah, it seems like there could be somebody hiding there or at least trapped there. Uh, something else that comes up. But I remember they found like the blankets and like the toy and you there's some stuff they were finding there that show that people were living there. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, because the crew itself, I mean that they left that enterprise a long time ago because one of them became part of the scientists team that was looking for the progenitors, you know, with with the Romulans, and you know, we got to learn a little bit about the other people, but so we don't know what happened to them or who else was on that shippy. Like I agree with you, David, to look like someone else was on that ship. Yeah.

22:48 They have a quick question though, Wayne, for you, and this might be more Easter Egg just to remind me, I've got a question in the easter Egg moment, Wayne, who would you pick? I'm gonna choose burn him this time. Kind of similar to your reasons because she got to wander around the infamous is S S Enterprise. She got to sit in the captain's chair, the same chair that Mirror Kirk and Spock set in. She rode the ship while it was being pulled out of the wormhole by that tractor being, which is I loved that scene. I love that effect. I just I just thought that was cool. And you know, I thought always snick with Martin Green. I think she played the part beautifully, had such a great range of emotions here in this episode from beginning to end. I I really I've always liked the character Burnham from the beginning. I like the growth, and I just I love her this season. The choice. So for for me, I am don't laugh. No, I want you to work.

23:45 It's grudge because I get anything handed to me and I don't have to do anything unless I want to. There you go, oh yeah, I go with that. But I'm gonna I'm gonna give a hop of an answer here because let's be serious for a moment. I would pick Locke to be serious. First off, he has a really cool look to him. But what he has to let go of in order because he cares about Mole so much and he has to go on the room with I mean, he even at first, you know, doesn't want to because he obviously knows what's going to be on them if they do the bounty and those kind of things. He kind of doesn't want to, but you know sometimes that love just gets in the way. It makes you do things that you wouldn't normally do.

24:26 And you know, we get to see him, you know, make that decision. But come on, you know he gets he gets to have Eve Harlowe on his side. So hey, yeah, you can't complain about that at all. Well, yeah, and you bring up a good point, like he's the reason he has a death sentence. Yeah on him is you know Maul would be uh not pursued if it wasn't for him. Yeah, but yeah, that's a good choice. Thanks. Right. How about some easter eggs? Wayne, Oh, there were a few of them in this episode. But first I want to mention off that for the second episode in a row, Doug Jones just not appear and he's not credited. I hope we haven't seen the last of him. I'm starting to get worried, but hopefully he'll return with more of a story. But getting into the easter eggs, this episode firmly established a lot of the history after of the Mere Universe.

25:18 From between the original series and U Space nine. We learned that the Terran Empire, which we saw that was they first appeared in the original series Mirror Mirror. It survived well into the twenty fourth century, but was ultimately defeated by the Cardassian Klingon Alliance, which is where we saw it when it appeared the second time in Due Space nine's episode Crossover. I also found interesting that the plaque that Booker saw on the Iss Enterprise in the transporter room showed a start eate of three two Sixsculy three two three three six point six and showing that that's the date of the Enterprise escaped the Mere Universe into the Prime Universe. That places that event happening about nine years before the events of Encounter far point. Yeah. It also states that the on the plaque that the new High Chancellor was killed, which the High Chancellor was the Mere version of Spock. Now, we already knew he was dead from the dialogue that Kira said in Crossover, but now from the what was on the plaque, we now know how and why he died and what happened next after that. Interesting well, okay, and also this episode it's revealed that, as we said before, Locke is Breen, this is the first time in Star Trek history that we've seen a Breen with al the helmet on. Yeah. They were first mentioned the in name on an episode called The Loss from the Next Generation's

26:49 fourth season, and then again they were mentioned in Hero Worship and Star Trek Generations. We never actually got to see him on screen until Deep Spaceline's fourth season, the episode in and then they appeared throughout the rest of the series. They had the Brain had allied themselves with the Changelings and the Cardassians and the Dominion War, and they also appeared in an episode of Voyger, one episode of Voyger, in one episode of Lower Decks. Yeah, it's nice now we have a face to the helmets that we've always seen. Yeah, and then also we've got Tilly was looking for the loose Cardassian bowl. We found out on d Space nine that they can be a real pain in the ass if they get into the wire. And of course I'm going to mention state the obvious here that the sets of the Iss Enterprise were just to reuse of the standing sets from Strange New Worlds. I just hope that they've cleaned them up before they started filming that series, because they were a mess.

27:48 Yes, they were all right, Well, so go ahead. Well, so there's one thing I want to ask about, and I'm not too sure of it, and it makes me want to go back and watch Pickard season three. I feel like I remember, I guess what I'm getting at is the vial that they find that's part of the Progenitor's next clue. I feel like when they showed the change links being held in stasis, instead of being that that solid copper fluid opaque fluid, I feel like the vials that they were being kept in they were clear and that maybe they were blue, but I'm not too sure of that. So there's part of me that wonders, are they going to say that what's contained in the vial is a changelinger has something to do with it? Just because we continue to see that that image of the progenitor and the same the same person was the lead changeling in DS nine, it might be interesting to see if that's the only part of the clue. That would be what do they call that's a retcon or something would be a really interesting thing if they do connect the two. I like that idea. Is this the Hawfmin prediction? The Whited prediction has done well so far This season says this the Hoffman prediction. Sure, well, if it's

29:21 Hoffman, then I'll just have to change my mind like three times and then it'll be unbrand. That works better. All right, gentlemen. So what are we seeing for next week? I believe the episode called Whistle Speak? Yep, yeah, not much. No, they showed that one minute clip, but the really one which can get you can get off of that. It showed burn Him and Tilly on what looks like a primitive planet with some dangers, and one of them is very ill and having trouble and breathing. It doesn't give you much to go. Although I hope that this means that Tilly's getting off the ship and we're going to see a lot more of her. I hope, So, I hope, So yeah, I do kind of wonder, like, you know, they have that respiratory condition that's taking a bunch of people out. I wonder if it's going to you know, come out that it's some kind of species that lives that way. Yeah, you know, is every time you hear them kind of that kind of wine in their voice is actually another species trying to speak and we just can't understand them. Yeah, Well, any clear clear we got to deal with the prime directive. I know that was mentioned too, you know in that scene.

30:32 So yeah, yeah, you know. So it definitely looks like it's going to be an interesting episode, that's for sure. It feels like it could be a self contained episode. Yeah. I'm not saying it's not going to connect to the rest of the story, but it feels like it could be a separate, one episode story from the rest of the season. Yeah, it could be. All right. Well, Wayne and Scott, thank you so much for joining me on the bridge for another episode. It's always, likewise, always a pleasure as always think thanks to our listeners for joining us and listening to us to talk star Trek what we love so dearly haling Frequencies are always open for you to share your thoughts and questions on social where you can email us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com. You can find us online at a film by podcast dot com, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and if you're looking for more exclusive content and swag, send some latinmar Way through Patreon. See you next time for another episode of Phasers. Set the time