June 1, 2025

Batman: A Film By Richard Donner

Batman: A Film By Richard Donner
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Season 6 A Film By...

Are you ready for Richard Donner's Batman, starring Robin Williams and Mel Gibson? Join us for a very special 400th episode, with our show set in an alternate universe where things are similar... but not exactly the same. Welcome to the Alternate Universe Video Store. We have the hit movies you've only wondered about seeing!

For exclusive episodes and content, check out A Film By... Podcast on our Patreon with a FREE 7-day trial. You can also sign up as a free member! 

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on Instagram, X, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

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I really cannot believe that we are We're about to

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do the four hundredth episode. It's it's amazing. We've come

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a long way, Jeff, A lot of movies. Yeah, we have.

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We have. Did you realize we've done Richard Donner four

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different times? Yeah? We have half four Yeah, four different times.

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I would, honestly, I would love to do another Richard

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Donner episode. But I like, if you, if you if

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you were gonna pick a Richard Donner film, that that

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kind of fits into what we do, Like what would

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you what would you suggest? Because man, I don't know,

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there's some really good ones out there, but I can't

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think anything off the top of my head. But I

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was thinking, uh, I don't know, if you, like we

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did Lady Hawk, Me and Amber did Lady Hawk and

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then doing the research there. I that's when we talked

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about how he almost did Batman in nineteen eighty nine. Yeah,

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with mel Gibson. Could you imagine what that would have

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been like? It would have been different, but I think

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it would have been it would have I'd love to

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talk about it, but you know, they didn't make it.

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And the only way that we're going to talk about

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a movie like that is if we were in an

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alternate universe.

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You remember the movie, but that's not who directed it.

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It's one of your favorite scenes, but that wasn't the actor.

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You love quoting the character, but that's not how the

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line goes. You have the right movies, You're just in

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the wrong reality. Welcome to the alternate universe video store.

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We have the hit movies you've only wondered about seeing.

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Are we seriously about to record our fourth episode without

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a name for the show?

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Hey? I've offered you multiple suggestions at this point.

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Likewise, and you've shot them all down.

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Okay, well, director's cut was taken. The hop borks sounded dumb.

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And do not get me started on the video village.

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I mean that makes us mean are we really a

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rental store?

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But those are real film industry terms.

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You know this well as someone in the industry, I

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can tell you that people outside the industry wouldn't understand them.

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All right, that fine, Let's let's just get to it.

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Let's talk about a film by Rich whoa, that's it?

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What's it a film by that's the name of the show.

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Wait, a film by Yeah? I like that, dude, It's perfect. Actually,

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all right.

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Okay, So in that case, let's talk about a film

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by Richard Donner, his nineteen eight nine superhero blockbuster Batman.

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Hello, everyone, welcome back. I'm Jeff Johnson.

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And I'm Brad Kozo and you're.

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Listening to a film by podcast.

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That's right, and we're coming to you live from the

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back room with the local Sun Coast Motion Picture Company

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with a new episode in Jeff, it may be the

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biggest superhero movie of all time.

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One of the all time greats for sure. Brad, do

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you do you remember the summer of eighty nine when

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this came out? Like, I have to believe your parents

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took you to see this, right, absolutely?

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I mean I remember seeing this god several several times

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that summer.

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I still remember my mom calling us inside and handing

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me and my brother Batman t shirts, telling us to

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change because we're gonna see the movie. Did your mom

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and dad do that?

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Oh? I mean I haven't made them do that.

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I had that like three at least that summer, every

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kid had a black T shirt with a bat symbol

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on it.

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That's right. So well, let's get into that someone, Okay,

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Because while the movie is a whole lot of fun.

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The production was anything, but it's one of the most

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troubled productions, with hirings, firings delays, and not one but

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two film scores.

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Well, as always, we're going to start by catching up

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with the cast and crew. Afterward, we'll take you behind

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the scenes with some film real facts, then break down

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several scenes and themes, letting you know whether we love

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it or loathe it. And finally we'll wrap up by

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deciding whether it's worth watching and worth owning.

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I can answer that question right now.

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All right, Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. I

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think we need to start with a brief synopsis. So

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although I can't imagine anyone not knowing what this movie's about, Brad,

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what do you got for us?

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We'll keep it simple. I mean. With his first step

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into the world of superheroes, I mean, Richard Donner made

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us believe a man could fly with bright colors, amazing visuals,

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and a message about hope. With Batman, though, he introduces

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another kind of hero, one who lives in the shadows

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of Gotham City, one who is the Night, and his

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message is vengeance. His Gotham City's two hundredth birthday looms

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close or a homicidal criminal calling himself Joker, played to

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gleeful perfection by Robin Williams, wages an all out assault

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on the city, wreaking havoc on every turn without clear motive.

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Will anyone be able to stop the clown? Prince of Crime?

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Enter Gotham's Dark Night. Mel Gibson, Star of Man maxim

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Leath the Weapon plays a centric millionaire Bruce Wayne, a

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man who has dedicated his life to the restoration of

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his city by day in waging war on the criminal

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underworld as the vigilanti called Batman at night. Will Batman

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act in time to save Gotham City or will a

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Joker have the last laugh?

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Nicely done, Brad. Let's catch up with the cast and crew,

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beginning with the guy who gets top billing talking about

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Robin Williams playing the Joker.

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Hello doctor, as well as red Hood briefly.

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Yeah, I definitely want to discuss that scene when we

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get to love it or loathe it.

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Yeah, I mean, of course Williams, you know, wasn't the

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first choice to play the Joker.

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Oh you okay, So you want to get into the

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controversy now with Jack Nicholson.

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No, no, no, No, there was someone else before him too,

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an actor named William von Hambig.

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Who the hell is Willem von Hamburg?

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He is Vehico.

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Oh okay, uh yeah, the big creepy guy him playing

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the Joker.

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Yes, he wanted to, but he was actually contractly obligated

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to play Vid Good Carpathon and go Esbusters two, and

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given the production lads for Batman, I mean, he just

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couldn't do it.

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Honestly, I can't imagine Joker being played by anyone other

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than Robin Williams. I mean, they think about they've created

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a look for the character that is absolutely iconic. I mean,

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and he spends what two hours in the makeup chair

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every morning. He looks hilariously creepy, and yet somehow he

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still looks like Robin Williams.

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I mean, I think that comes down to him knowing

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how to deliver an amazing performance from under makeup. I

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mean I watched interviews with him citing like people like

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Carloff and Long Cheney as inspiration. I mean the manic

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energy and silliness of Robin Williams doing stand up. I

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mean it's basically hidden under all their prosthetics and strange voice.

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But it's I mean, it's it's pure joker though.

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Okay, so the voice you mentioned, the voice the voice

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he does here, How old were you when you when

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you realized it was actually a Jack Nicholson impression.

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I mean, I don't know whether or not I realized

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it until you know what he did that MTV movie

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special with Chris Connelly where he was asked about it

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and then aired about the whole thing about how Warrener

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brothers trying to screw him.

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Uh was that the one where they give away a batmobile.

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Yeah, the Bato build that specifically was without an engine

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so it could be driven.

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Again troubled production. If I'm one on a batmobile, I

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better be able to drive it. But exactly Well, but

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back to the voice he does. I got that. I

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found this clip. So check out this clip of him

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discussing the whole Nicholson thing, and he's doing the voice.

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If you listen closely, you can hear it's like a

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Nicholson impression. But it's what he ends up doing for

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the for the joker. It's really cool. Hold on, check

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this out now. I've all always been fascinated at the

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roles that actors get, and I know this might be

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a sore.

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Spot for you, but.

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We'll mention and then we'll talk.

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Okay, well the batman of the Joker role, but.

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I'm real sorry about it. Maybe I'll send you a

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couple of T shirts. Smart boy, it happened that way.

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I'm better than you and I'm bigger, So here you go.

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It happens. I guess everyone has those stories. Even even

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Jack's been ripped off a couple of times. So there's

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parts that you know are either offered. Sometimes they use

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you as bait and let's say, or sending it out

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to him and you go for it, and then they

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give it to somebody else because they're saying, you know,

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it's out to him, and he said, I had better

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take it.

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So I read a funny story about Robin that aggravated

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the costume department. Do you have you heard the story

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about the gloves?

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No, not about the gloves.

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So, according to costume designer Bob Ringwood, when people would

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visit the set, you know, you know, exacts, studio execs

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like friends and family. They you know, they're always going

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to bring people in. Right, Well, every time someone would

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go to meet Robin, he'd take off one of his

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white gloves from the Joker costume. He had autograph it,

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and he would give them away as gifts, and this

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got so bad that Ringwood had to tell him to stop.

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Yeah, I'm sure that went overwhell Well.

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Apparently, Williams apologizes, he promises not to do it anymore,

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and then makes it a point to do it twice

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as often. Bob Ringwood estimates there are likely a hundred

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or so Joker gloves out there signed by Robin Williams.

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Oh god, just imagine how much of this.

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No, I'd love to have one. But another tidbit about

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Bob Ringwood. Do you know the reason why Joker wears

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orange and black during the you know the scene with

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the smilex commercial he does, Yeah, yeah, yeah, instead of

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the purple green.

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Right, it's it's not because he's a huge Bengals fan.

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No, it is not, right, Yeah, I will tell you.

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Early in the production, Williams had asked Bob Ringwood if

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it was true that he specifically color match Jokers purple

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to the same purple of the Lakers for Jack Nicholson.

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So Ringwood confessed that it was true. And you know,

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he feels a little bit bad about this. So he

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asks Robin if there was a team he wanted to

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pay tribute to with some of the colors. It just

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so happens that Robin Williams is a big San Francisco

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Giants fan, and that is why he wears the orange

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and black suit in that scene.

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Oh I thought it was a bank all right. So okay,

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So we've mentioned Nicholson a few times. I mean, I

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think and now is a good time as any to

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dig in into some of the more casting controversy. I mean,

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do you agree, I do.

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I think you should tell the listeners though.

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Okay, So offers for the Roller Joker went out to

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Robin Williams and Jack Nicholson at the same time, with

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Nicholson considered by Warnerburg exec as the dream pick. And

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remember just a few years are he you know, he

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gave that, you know, great performance in The Shining, So

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I mean they're thinking, you know, they want more of that.

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You know, until you brought up The Shining, I didn't

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see Jack as the Joker, But I'm starting to now.

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Really, I mean think you can't say really, I mean

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think I got Cuckoo's nest the way he is in

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like one flavor.

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Of the Cooper Well, okay, okay, so now I definitely

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see it.

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Well, so the problem was that both actors accepted the

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offer with Williams Ziell put in place first. When Warner

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Boaters tried to back out of the Williams contract, it

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got back to Nicholson then, who immediately walked away from

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the project. This ultimate delays the production starts several months

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because negotiations with Williams breaks down.

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Man want a mess, but it's a fortuitous mess because.

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Because Richard Donner uses delay to shoot lethal weapon to

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and quietly recruit Mel Gibson back on board to play Batman.

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Now you yes, you say back on board, which will

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make sense when we get to Mel Gibson.

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Oh yeah, I mean Mel Gibson aka Bruce Wayne aka Batman.

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Well, Mel was always the first choice to play Batman,

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but he was already signed to to return for a

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Leathal Weapons sequel. I mean, I get contracts and deals,

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but both of these movies are Warner Brothers movies. So

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why did why do you think you think they'd figure

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something out?

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I mean, right, I mean you, but you're you're talking

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about also to several hundred people involved in a mood

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production plus all the lawyers and as exacts. I mean,

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it's it sounds simple, but it's it's it's kind of

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a pain.

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Well Mel So Mel grew up in Australia, so he

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has no exposure to Batman. Before this movie, producers gave

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him a copy of the graphic novel The Dark Knight

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Returns as reference material.

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Yeah, I mean, I know you're the comic book guy.

254
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Hear you know between us, But didn't Batman Year one

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come out before this movie? I mean, doesn't it make

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more sense from when even just.

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Read that I won I will disagree with that because,

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for the life of me, I can't find any similarities

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between this movie and The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel

260
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at any rate. I do want to briefly discuss the

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actors who almost put on the Cape and cow.

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Okay, so Mel is the first choice, But then the

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movie gets delayed several much versts filming on Leath's Weapon two,

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and now everyone besides Mel Gibson is getting a call

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from the batfilm about a role of a lifetime.

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I've got two I want to tell you about. Are

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you ready for this?

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Who almost got to deliver the line I'm Batman.

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Well, an actor who had already delivered a similar famous line,

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that being Bond, James Bond. Pierce Brosnan was briefly in

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the running, but declined, saying, and I quote, I just

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couldn't take it seriously. Any man who wears his underpants

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outside his pants just cannot be taken seriously. That was

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my foolish take on it. It was a joke, I thought.

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But how wrong was I?

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I mean, I think he would have been a great

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Bruce Wayne, but I can't seem as Batman. But at

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least I mean, you know, he took on Robin Williams

279
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and miss a dautpfire though.

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Yeah, yes it was a run by a fruiting.

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Yeah, and who is the other actor? Who was the

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other actor?

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So the other actor? This one is almost too ridiculous

284
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to believe. But Michael Keaton was heavily considered.

285
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Michael Keaton as in Mister Mom. Yes, Billy Blaize from

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Night Shift, Yes, the very same. I mean, I like him,

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but I'm gonna I'm gonna say now.

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Well, so Warner Brothers producer John Poppick was saying, yes,

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he loved what Keaton did in Tim Burton's Beetlejuice the

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year before, so he sent the script to Keaton, who

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read it out of politeness because he wasn't much of

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a Batman fan and Brad Ironically, Batman fans weren't Michael

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Keaton fans, because they flooded the studio with more than

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fifty thousand protest letters, one of which was signed by

295
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Batman creator himself, Bob Kane.

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Yeah, and I'm telling you right now, the only place

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anything where Michael Keaton playing Batman makes any kind of sense,

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it's some alternate universe where they make crazy cast indies.

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But but I mean, but who knows. I mean, I

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guess he'd take on Jack Nicholson joker there.

301
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I mean, you know, I can't say that whether that

302
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be any good, but I would definitely watch it.

303
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Okay, So one more thing that Gibson you might not know.

304
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I mean, he played a significant role in creating the

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final look of the batsuit.

306
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Yeah, okay, so I know this story, but please share

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it for the listeners.

308
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Okay. So the first time he comes in screen tests,

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he just wasn't happy. He called it some of the

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campiest shit he's ever seen. Yeah, say that he tells

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Dyner if they wanted Adam West, why did they call him?

312
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So?

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Bob rang One completely overhauls the suit with Mel's input.

314
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Okay, so what I truly love is Mel's idea for

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the eyes, because he thinks seeing Batman's eyes humanizes him,

316
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even with the black grease paint around him. So he

317
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agrees to wear white lens contacts, which effectively wipes out

318
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his pupils and it is a totally scary looking look.

319
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It totally works.

320
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Yeah, I mean the voice works too, though. I mean

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he makes an informist decision to alter it slightly from

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I mean Bruce Wayne persona and tells Donner that it

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makes more sense for Batman to say as little as

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possible and to speak only when necessary, because Bruce would

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want to hide, you know, as identity as much as possible.

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Obviously, I bet there was some interesting dialogue cut out

327
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because of that choice. But I don't disagree with him.

328
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You know, Batman needs to say as little.

329
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As possible, right, I mean, so let's keep moving because

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we have we have still plenty of castmembers talk about.

331
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All right, well, you can't make a Batman movie without

332
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his most trusted confidant.

333
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:35.440
Mm hmm, Lieutenant James Gordon, I.

334
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Was thinking Alfred, but we can talk about Gordon.

335
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.640
No, no, I'm agree with Alfred.

336
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All right. Well Alfred Pennyworth Bruce Wayne's loyal servant played

337
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by John Aston. Brad, how about another Bond reference for you.

338
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Aston wins this role over Roger Moore.

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So two Bond actors initially involved. I mean, I mean,

340
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I'm not saying Aston isn't good in the role, but

341
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I mean, the hell does he get Roger Moore?

342
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:10.640
Well, the short answer is nostalgia. So you remember, let

343
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.880
me take you back four years, uh, four years earlier.

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He meets Donner for the first time when he pays

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a visit to the set of The Goonies, which stars

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his step son Sean Aston, you know, little Mikey. They

347
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became fast friends, and Donner talks about his regret over

348
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never getting the chance to direct in Adam's Family TV episode,

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because you remember, Donna did a lot of TV before

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the movies, so the producers may have wanted Roger More

351
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to play Offred, but once Donner was involved, John Aston

352
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was the only actor he had considered, and incidentally, he

353
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joins William Peterson and Billy d. Williams as one of

354
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only three actors to appear in all three Batman films.

355
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Right, so back to Lieutenant Lieutenant Gordon.

356
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Now, William Peterson, can we can you try to imagine

357
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a better choice, because I'll sit here and wait.

358
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I mean, the thing is he went in to read

359
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for Harvey Dent because the early draft of the script

360
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had James Gordon character portrayed much older and already in

361
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place as police could mission.

362
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:16.000
Yeah, well at that point, I believe they were considering

363
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Richard Krenna after seeing him play Colonel Troutman in the

364
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Rambo films.

365
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.680
I mean, I love Peterson in this role. I mean

366
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he's almost pulling off from his Will Graham character and

367
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.319
Manhunter one of your favorites. Yeah, I love it. I

368
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:32.960
mean it's it's not that he wants to apprehend Batman

369
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or even stopping. I mean, he just simply wants to

370
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kind of understand it. I mean that's what makes his performance.

371
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Is Gordon so compelling?

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I can't I can't agree more. Billy D. Williams has

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a minor role you mentioned Harvey Dent. Billy D. Williams

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ends up as District Attorney Harvey Dent he beats out

375
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Don Johnson, Tommy Lee Jones, and I suppose you could

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say William Peterson, although we know Peterson got another role.

377
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.559
Yeah, I mean it's not a big role, but it's

378
00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.240
important one because it ultimately sets up you know, the

379
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.400
Two Face down the road. So for him to you know,

380
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.920
to matter to us later, you know, ability Williams has

381
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to build this character up. I mean, we have to

382
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.440
like him as the hero in this movie so we

383
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.160
can love him as the villain and you know Batman

384
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:19.519
and Robin kpe Crusaders.

385
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.839
Yeah. Yeah. He agrees to play the role on the

386
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condition that he'll get to play Two Face if they

387
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.960
decide to make a sequel. So Warner Brothers signs him

388
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to a three picture deal, and Williams is on record

389
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.200
saying he was grateful for the chance to move past

390
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:41.000
his role as Lando in the Star Wars trilogy. So question, Brad,

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00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.920
if you can only have Billity Williams, he can either

392
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be in the Star Wars universe or the Batman universe.

393
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Which do you choose? Mmm?

394
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:55.000
I mean I'm gonna say Batman, you know, because I mean,

395
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:56.559
when it comes down to it, I mean, I don't

396
00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.839
think any of us talk about actors immediately when Star

397
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.480
War Wars is mentioned. I mean we talk about the

398
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.160
special facts, the creatures and space ships, all that stuff.

399
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.759
I mean, Star Wars has amazing characters, but I think

400
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.640
you remember the bigger stuff first. I mean, Batman doesn't

401
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.839
work without strong realistic performances, so I think he has

402
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.920
more to do and more to offer in the Batman movies.

403
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.839
Plus he's in all three Batman movies, I mean, Starman

404
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.920
and Star Wars. It's just the you know, I mean

405
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.960
half of the second and then just some of the third.

406
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.640
Okay, that's that's a good point. You may even say

407
00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.440
four Batman films because he did the voice for two

408
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.240
Face in the Lego Batman movie in twenty seventeen.

409
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.559
M Jeff, let's talk about this film's fem fatale. Sean

410
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.920
Young is socialite Selina Ka.

411
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:49.640
She is bringing that blade runner smolder and steaming up

412
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.079
every scene she's in.

413
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:53.359
I want to run down the list of actress who

414
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:55.720
were in the running and tell me what you think.

415
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.880
All right, Okay, so Sean Young wins a rollover. Kim Basinger,

416
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:10.119
Kathy Moriarty, Michelle Pfeiffer, Daryl Hannah Melissa Leo, and Angela Bassett. Okay, yeah,

417
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:10.559
all right.

418
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.799
I will acknowledge that it's truly a shame that Sean

419
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.480
Young doesn't return in nineteen ninety two's Batman at Robin

420
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:24.440
Cape Crusader's because she is Selina Kyle. Now, having said that,

421
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.920
we obviously know that she ends up being replaced by

422
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.119
Michelle Pfeiffer, So you know, put a pin in Michelle Pfeiffer.

423
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:37.599
As for the others, Melissa Leo, she's all wrong for

424
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:42.799
this part, Kim Basinger, Daryl Hannah. It's interesting choices, but

425
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.000
if I had my pick overall, it's definitely Angela Bassett.

426
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:51.599
I mean, for everything Sean Young is doing in this movie,

427
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.079
it is kind of the same. She was, you know,

428
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.640
relegated to the love interest role and we you know,

429
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.880
you never really get to see her in the costume

430
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:01.480
is cawwoman.

431
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:06.680
We saw it and it was a train wreck. Did

432
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.240
you see Maybe you didn't see it, but don't you

433
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:10.359
remember the Joan Rivers talk show thing?

434
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.880
No? I I mean I heard about it. I never

435
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.880
I never saw it. I mean, is it is it

436
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:16.839
on the world Wide Web?

437
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.279
Sadly it is? I'm sorry? Okay, I'm sorry for getting

438
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.759
off topic, but as we all know, she's not in

439
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.000
the sequel because during pre production on Batman and Robin

440
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.720
cape Crusader's she breaks her collar bone in a horseback

441
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:35.160
riding accident. Why are you going horseback riding during pre

442
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:41.079
production of the biggest blockbuster sequel whatever, So they have

443
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.880
no choice but to recast the part, and new director

444
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.680
Tim Burton is directing the movie. He looks at audition

445
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.319
tapes from this movie and he stops looking once he

446
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.319
sees Michelle Pfeiffer.

447
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:55.759
Okay, but what this Joan Rivers thing though?

448
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:55.960
Oh?

449
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.599
Okay, yeah, so so Sean Young is desperate to win

450
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:02.599
the role back, so desperate she shows up at Tim

451
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.359
Burton's office in a homemade catwoman costume to get the rollback,

452
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:10.799
and he has her escorted off the Warner Brothers studio

453
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.200
a lot, and then she takes a bad situation and

454
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.640
makes it much worse by going on the Joan Rivers

455
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.519
talk show in the early nineties in the same costume

456
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.559
to publicly call out Tim Burton for not letting her

457
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:25.519
have the rollback.

458
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.240
There is one actress who refuses to give up. She

459
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.000
is the only she says, real Catwoman, and she's going

460
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.400
to join us today with a message to the director.

461
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:37.799
So we're going to see this is a real Hollywood

462
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:38.960
actress and big time.

463
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:39.960
You'll all know the name.

464
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.200
When we say so, Catwoman strikes again.

465
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:52.000
A message for the director of Batman too. How dare

466
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.440
you not make time to see the Catwoman, not even

467
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.799
so much as granting me a meeting? How very rude

468
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.519
of you. After all, I was in the original Batman.

469
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:05.960
How dare you not even return the cat Woman's phone calls?

470
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.640
I don't make phone calls very often, and after all,

471
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.759
business is business, and doing good business means that you

472
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:17.240
return your phone calls. It's a pretty simple formula.

473
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:21.640
It's Batman, but she's batshit crazy.

474
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.720
You know what. I don't want to I kind of

475
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.200
don't want to watch that clip because it'll probably change

476
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:32.000
my perception over I mean, I really like her, especially in.

477
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.160
This Well, you know, I think I think Hollywood's perception changed,

478
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.599
you know, because looking back, she was a hot commodity

479
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.400
throughout the eighties and then and then after this stunt.

480
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.000
I mean, she's always she's always continued to work steadily.

481
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.680
Don't get me wrong, but name one Shong Young movie

482
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.799
post Batman, that isn't ace Ventura.

483
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.720
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't think I can. Yeah, okay,

484
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:57.160
but back to the bad guys. I mean, I know

485
00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:01.839
it's a small role, but Joker's main Bob.

486
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:06.160
You, oh my number one guy.

487
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.599
Yeah, a character actor named Tracy Walter. Now, are you

488
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:13.519
aware how he was cast in the film.

489
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:16.960
I would assume Donna liked his performance in h as

490
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:18.880
he played the cook in City Slickers.

491
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.799
No, no, no, that wasn't out yet though, But he didn't

492
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.559
even audition for the role because he was Yeah, he

493
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:29.640
was cast after his close friend Jack and Nicholson mentioned

494
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.559
him to Richard donner Man.

495
00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:33.559
Nicholson is all over this movie.

496
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.880
Yeah. Tracy Walter often jokes that this is the film

497
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.440
that immortalized him. But has character having an action figure

498
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.839
with a power kick. I mean, I don't. I don't

499
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:49.839
recall Bob Goon kicking Batman at any point or anyone

500
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.559
else for the matter, and during the entire movie.

501
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.720
But well, you know whatever, I had those I had

502
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.880
those figures. And yeah, the Bob the Goon figure, did

503
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:03.200
he had action kick? I don't understand it. But only

504
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.359
one other bad guy I'm guessing you want to.

505
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:09.000
Talk about, well, I mean crime boss Rupert Thorne, who's

506
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.119
played by a guy named Frank a Leader. Now, I

507
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.319
actually last week or this guy is. I looked him

508
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.680
up and he's pretty much a TV jobber, showing up

509
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.640
in about a dozen of old television shows. But you

510
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:25.240
said there's an interesting connection between him and Richard Donner.

511
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.559
I have been waiting for this, So let me take

512
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:31.240
you down a rabbit hole, my friend. Now we're talking

513
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.559
about Batman, so let me take you to the bat cave,

514
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:39.000
my friend. Frank A Letter starred in a television series

515
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:40.480
called Danger Island.

516
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:41.720
Have you heard of it?

517
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:44.119
So?

518
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.119
It ran for one season from nineteen sixty eight to

519
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:51.519
nineteen sixty nine. The series also starred Ronnie Troop and

520
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:57.200
a young a very young jan Michael Vincent. Now just

521
00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.799
listen to this synopsis and tell me you're not dying

522
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:01.200
to track it down and watch it.

523
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:02.880
Okay, all right?

524
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.799
He may looking for his brother who disappeared. Searching the

525
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.839
South Pacific for the lost city of Tobana, Archaeologist Professor

526
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:18.319
Erwin Hayden, his daughter Leslie, and his assistant Link Simmons

527
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.480
seek a treasure chest on board a sunken ship near

528
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.680
an island in the South Pacific, which they hope will

529
00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:29.599
provide clues to the missing man's whereabouts. They are pursued

530
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.519
by a gang of heavily armed modern pirates and three

531
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:39.160
different tribes of cannibals. A native named Chango joins forces

532
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:45.759
with the archaeologists to save them from perilous situations. Now anyways,

533
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:51.279
Frank Altdor played the main character, Erwin Hayden, the adventure

534
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.759
seeking archaeologist professor. Hmm Does that Does that sound like

535
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:56.839
a family? Does that sound like a familiar concept?

536
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:03.000
I Uh, I mean okay, what does he have to

537
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:05.400
do with Richard Donner? I mean or Batman?

538
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.039
Well, Brad, All twenty six episodes of Danger Island were

539
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.079
directed by Richard Donner.

540
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.920
So you're telling me that Richard Donner passed up Brian

541
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:20.640
Denahey and Sean Connery because of Danger Island.

542
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:25.000
That's what I'm telling you. Hey, Donner is loyal to

543
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.960
people he works with, and I'm willing to bet if

544
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.200
a letter wasn't available, he probably would have got that guy,

545
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:35.400
Steve Kahan. But Brad, I do think we've got one

546
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:37.559
last cast member to mention before we move on to

547
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:38.119
the crew.

548
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.160
Right, River, Phoenix is Dick Grayson.

549
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:46.039
This is a big year for River. He's playing young

550
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.079
Indiana Jones and Robin the boy Wonder.

551
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:54.000
I mean, technically he's playing Dick Grayson because all right,

552
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:56.640
just like Calin, we never seen him in the costume

553
00:29:56.680 --> 00:29:59.440
as Robin. I mean, don't get ahead of yourself.

554
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.160
Not true, but but we do see him in the

555
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.240
red and green certain Disulay costume is.

556
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.759
One of the flying Grayson's, Yes, but not as Robin.

557
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.920
All right, okay, you got me again. This is a

558
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:17.680
pivotal moment in what has become an iconic career. He's

559
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.599
only eighteen at the time of filming, but he's convincingly

560
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.599
playing fifteen, you know. And Brad, it's a comic book

561
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.720
movie and he's in a supporting role. But damn, the

562
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.480
gravitas of the film is in no small part due

563
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:33.119
to rivers performance.

564
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.440
Right, you know, and we know that Donner knows how

565
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.240
to work with kids. I mean, he's just a few

566
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.000
years off of Goonies at this point. I mean, but

567
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.400
it doesn't matter because Phoenix has never carried himself as

568
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.000
a really a child actor. I mean, even when he

569
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.559
really was. I mean, so so Donna is a smart

570
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:51.880
thing and he never treats him like a kid basically,

571
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:55.119
And that's important because when you think about it, Dick

572
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.319
Grayson never really actually had an actor child and you know, Diddy,

573
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:01.119
he didn't really have a childhood.

574
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.759
Well, my childhood didn't involve deathifying high wire acrobatics. So

575
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:05.720
you've got a point.

576
00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:10.160
And as unusual as the circumstance is, he then witnesses

577
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.359
the murder of his parents by a crazy clown firing

578
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.519
explosives directly into the circus crowd.

579
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.000
I know you hate when I call out your acting roles,

580
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.200
but I have to this time because it ties into

581
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.440
the conversation today. So back in ninety one, you did

582
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:31.119
a film called Dogfight, Yes, with River Phoenix and Eg

583
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:37.039
Daily and Lily Taylor. You played a small part. What Dogfight, buddy,

584
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:38.039
You're credited with.

585
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:39.599
Some like that.

586
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:40.920
Yeah, I think that's what it said.

587
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.559
Tell Okay, well, Brad, hey, listeners, Brad's great in it.

588
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:50.079
But Brad tell us the smoke break story with River Phoenix.

589
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:55.119
Okay, all right, So we're basically we're waiting for him

590
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:58.440
to finish light in the set. He walks up and

591
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.079
he asks for a cigarette so we sat there just

592
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.160
they're just kind of bullshitting about every day things, the weather,

593
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:08.400
the nice crew and stuff like that. And I ended

594
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.119
up asking what's it like to work with those Harrison

595
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.640
Ford and melk I mean, I never thought i'd get

596
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:16.119
a chance to ask him. Might as well, right, I

597
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:16.480
have to?

598
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:16.839
Yeah?

599
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.920
Yeah, So he said, you know, it's like being around

600
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.200
your dad, who will let you get away with some things,

601
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.000
and then spending time with your uncle, who lets you

602
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.480
get away with everything. I mean, he smiled, he put

603
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.000
his cigarette out, and he walked away. And I've always

604
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:37.119
wondered between Harrison Ford and mel Gibson, who's the dad

605
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.240
and who's the uncle?

606
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:42.240
In that answer, Dan, that's such a great story. You've

607
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.079
got so many cool stories like that, But that is

608
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.240
a great story. I love that one.

609
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.319
Yeah, but did you know that River wasn't the first

610
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:49.440
choice for the role of Rob.

611
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:50.079
No.

612
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:55.079
What Stuart's first choice is Keith for Sutherlin. And he

613
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:56.359
was only nineteen at the time.

614
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:58.880
Are you serious? Yeah?

615
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:02.720
Yeah, now get this. He turned them down, saying he

616
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.519
didn't want to do a goofy movie running around in tights.

617
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.160
Well, clearly he didn't even read the script because As

618
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:11.440
you mentioned, we never even see Dick as Robin the boy.

619
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.359
Wonder right, But I mean I'm sure he knew you

620
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.279
know it was coming, I mean it did you know?

621
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:17.920
We get Robin and you know, of course in the

622
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:18.720
next two movies.

623
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.599
I'd say that covers the cast of nineteen eight nine Batman.

624
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.799
We're gonna take a quick break and then talk about

625
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.759
the talent behind the camera.

626
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:34.839
Welcome back to a film Buy podcast. We've been talking

627
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:37.759
about the incredible cast of Richard Donner's Batman, and now

628
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.279
it's time to discuss the talent behind the camera.

629
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.720
So just a rundown of the major players. Donner is

630
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.640
directing the film based off a story by longtime friend

631
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:54.880
Tom Makinwitz, who you'll remember co wrote Superman with him.

632
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.000
The film is written by Sam Ham and Jeffrey Unsworth.

633
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:03.839
Another frequent Donner collaborator is the director of photography.

634
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.240
I just want to jump in and say, this film,

635
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:10.000
I mean, despite the amount of necessary darkness and shadows,

636
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.639
is a beautiful picture. I mean. Unsworth is the guy

637
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:15.719
that shot two thousand and one A Space Out to

638
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.559
See Okay and Superman, and he's responsible for some of

639
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.920
Donner's I mean best looking films.

640
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.360
You're not wrong. You're definitely not wrong. Speaking of Donner,

641
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:28.960
I just can't fathom how he took on such a

642
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:33.280
tremendous workload, because there's there's a significant overlap between the

643
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:38.000
production of Leath the Weapon two and Batman and Dude.

644
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:41.440
The fact that he didn't collapse on set either set

645
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:42.360
is a miracle.

646
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.719
Well, yeah, so time Warner CEO Steve Ross. He's had

647
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:50.000
a Warner Brothers in the late eighties. In eighty seven

648
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:55.280
he sees Superman for the question piece. It's like totally

649
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.480
tank in the box office. I mean, obviously it's time

650
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.800
for something different, it's time for Batman, but you have

651
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:03.960
to make sure it's in the hands with somebody with

652
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:10.119
experience and a truven proven track record. Call Richard Donald.

653
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:15.280
I mean the bulk of his filmography is with Warner Brothers.

654
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:16.920
I mean, it's makes sense.

655
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.480
Donner agrees to terms for a two picture deal, which

656
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.800
includes a sequel to Leath the Weapon. So the plan

657
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.159
is to shoot Batman and then head into production on

658
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.199
Leath the Weapon two. Six months later, he calls Steve

659
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:37.199
Ross with two requests. One absolutely no involvement with the

660
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:41.960
sal kinds of any kind, and two he wants Chris

661
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.599
Ree for a cameo, thus creating a shared universe between

662
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.119
the two superheroes, and Ross agrees to both requests.

663
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.280
Okay, so we talked about Lethal Weapon two starting basically

664
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:57.320
before Batman to the various delays, and thankfully, Donner has

665
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.760
a very smooth time working on the shoot, so much

666
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.880
so that they nearly wrapped when work on Batman starts.

667
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:06.880
I mean, it ends up being about a six weeks

668
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.280
where the you know productions are running, you know, you

669
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.239
know together. Mel Gibson said during those six weeks he

670
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.360
didn't know if he was coming or going. I mean, now,

671
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:19.199
the thing is like, as an actor, you you you

672
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.400
have to embrace that character. And here's a situation where

673
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.559
you're playing Martin Riggs one day, Bruce Wayne and Batman

674
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:30.119
in some cases on the same day. I mean that

675
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.119
that's a tough one.

676
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.280
So I came across a great story this morning that

677
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.360
ties to that quote of Melson he didn't know if

678
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.519
he was coming or going. If we got time, yeah,

679
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.800
we got time, go ahead, all right. So they had

680
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:46.000
some pickup shots to do for Lethal Weapon two, and

681
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:48.400
they needed Donner and Gibson to shoot. The scene where

682
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.920
Riggs goes into like that rage mode after they try

683
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:55.039
and drown him, and uh he discovers Rica underwater already dead.

684
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:57.880
Have you heard this story?

685
00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:58.960
No?

686
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.519
Okay, So I'm talking about when they when they kill

687
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:05.039
Patsy kinsit's character. Oh by the way, by the way,

688
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:09.199
she was up for the role of Joker's girlfriend in

689
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.519
this movie, but they felt she looked way too young

690
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:14.800
for Robin Williams. But Donner liked her so much that

691
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:19.599
he he cast her as Rika von Hogendas in Liethle

692
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:22.960
Weep too. But anyways, I digress. So I'm talking about

693
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:25.840
the scene where Riggs, you know, he escapes and he

694
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:27.440
kills the bad guys on the dock and he carries

695
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.039
her body off, right right, yeah?

696
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.760
Yeah, okay, yeah.

697
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:37.840
So the scene originally continues and Riggs has this complete

698
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.079
emotional breakdown. He just loses it. He's crying uncontrollably. He's

699
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.159
yelling at God about his wife Victoria Lynn, and he's

700
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.679
about Rica, like the man, give the man the oscar?

701
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:49.119
Right now?

702
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:51.719
Why would they cut that? I mean that sounds amazing.

703
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:58.400
Well the scene ends, Donner calls cut and the ad says, Dick,

704
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.159
we got a problem and Honor has been at it

705
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.239
for like fourteen sixteen hours straight without even looking at

706
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.159
the guy. He says, don't tell me we weren't rolling

707
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:10.920
on that, and the ad says, no, we got it,

708
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.039
but well, look at Mel. And it's at that moment

709
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.679
where an exhausted, overworked Richard Donner looks over at his

710
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:24.360
star and sees that his tear stained face still has

711
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:26.639
the black eye makeup on from when he was in

712
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:32.159
the batsuit like an hour before. Once Mel realizes it,

713
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.239
he and Donner just start like laughing, you know that cry,

714
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.960
laughing like I can't believe this, and Donner says, that's

715
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:39.800
enough for today. Good night people.

716
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:43.280
Oh god, I would Oh that would be hilarious to see.

717
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:44.440
That'd be great.

718
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:46.119
Me too, man, me too.

719
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:50.039
I want to talk about the film's music though, Okay,

720
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:55.400
the score or the soundtrack both. Okay, you know I

721
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.000
love the songs we all you know, we all do,

722
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:00.440
But go ahead and tell everyone wire just as crazy

723
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.800
as the joker with your unpopular opinion.

724
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:06.880
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but Michael Jackson's songs for this

725
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.519
movie suck. They just do. And when I think about

726
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:14.079
the soundtrack we could have had it just makes me mad.

727
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.199
You would honestly prefer Wham? Really, who come on?

728
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.880
Okay, it wasn't Wham. It was George Michael and you

729
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.360
know it. Oh and let's not forget Prince.

730
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:28.920
Well, I mean, at this time, if Michael Jackson wants

731
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:30.599
to do this chund track, you don't say no to

732
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:31.360
him at Night nine?

733
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:36.400
Okay, yeah, but they should have because originally they had

734
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.480
the chance to get George Michael, Prince, and Michael Jackson

735
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:44.679
to provide songs for the film soundtrack. The idea was

736
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.480
that each artist would provide a theme for a character,

737
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.599
So George Michael was going to do the love theme

738
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:52.960
for Bruce and Selena, Prince was gonna do this crazy

739
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:56.960
Joker theme, and then Jackson would do the Batman theme,

740
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:00.800
except he strongly suggested that he do the entire album,

741
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:05.159
So Warner Brothers drops all conversations with George, Michael and Prince.

742
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:08.519
Is it as good as Thriller or bad? No? But

743
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:11.039
it's still good. I mean, you can't tell me that

744
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:11.920
you hate.

745
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:20.960
Every Gotham getting it my Dark Night jokes on me, Brad,

746
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:25.440
These socks are trash. The only decent one is Scream

747
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.440
And even he knew that one could do better because

748
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.960
what was it? Years later he re released it as

749
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:32.719
a duet with Janet Jackson, his sister.

750
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:36.840
Well you know, they sold eleven million copies. So I mean,

751
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.039
i'd say you're in the minority here.

752
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:42.280
That's fine. I'll be in the minority with Richard Donner

753
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:46.079
because he didn't like Michael Jackson's stuff either. You know,

754
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.440
if you'll recall, he was heavy into the whole synthwave

755
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:52.800
pop of the time. And let's be honest, the only

756
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:56.000
reason why we got an all Michael Jackson soundtrack is

757
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:59.559
because John Peters thought was a great idea, and that

758
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:02.800
guy does not have great ideas ever.

759
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.000
So let's move on to the score, because I know

760
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.760
you're a big Chad Cochran fan, and I know how

761
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.480
much you love his Batman score.

762
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.679
Oh absolutely, I want to spend a few minutes discussing

763
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.519
the score because it does have an unusual story, beginning

764
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:19.559
with John Williams.

765
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:23.280
Yeah, I mean, John Williams probably the greatest composer of

766
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.639
all time. I mean, he's Donner's first choice, but he's

767
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:29.679
unavailable due to commitments on I mean, got so many

768
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:30.719
other projects at the time.

769
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:33.440
Well, I have to imagine it's not easy for him

770
00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:36.159
to say no to Richard Donner, but he's already said

771
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:40.199
yes to Steven Spielberg and Oliver Stone because this is

772
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.159
the year he's doing music for Always Born on the

773
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.400
fourth of July and Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade.

774
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.800
Yeah. Now where it gets unusual is that this film

775
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:54.760
actually has two separate film scores. I mean, just like

776
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.800
the situation where they hire Jack Nicholson and Robin Williams

777
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.199
played a joker, they hired two composers too, only this

778
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:04.159
producer is in checking in with that producer, and before

779
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:08.400
you know it, we have two well he completed soundtracks.

780
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:09.239
You know.

781
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:12.360
The thing is we've seen this happen before, but usually

782
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.679
it's on purpose. You know, maybe a director or a

783
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:18.039
studio head doesn't like what he hears and they go get

784
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:20.000
someone else, or maybe the director won't let go of

785
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:22.880
the temp track. You know, think about Ridley Scott's Legend.

786
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:26.639
The US release has that score by Tangerine Dream, and

787
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:29.480
then the international release has the much better score by

788
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:30.280
Jerry Goldsmith.

789
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:34.440
Right, and so here we have two guys who get

790
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:37.920
their start playing in bands. Danny Elfman from the band

791
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:44.519
Wo Blanco and Chad Cochrane from Yeah Yeah, I mean,

792
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:45.920
do you want to start with Elfman?

793
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.360
Sure? And let me just say his version isn't bad.

794
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.480
I'm betting the majority of people listening have never heard it,

795
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.280
but it's good. I just don't know if I just

796
00:42:57.320 --> 00:42:59.320
don't know if I think of a Batman when I

797
00:42:59.320 --> 00:42:59.639
hear it.

798
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:25.000
Let me play a bit for the listeners. Okay, I

799
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.519
think it's cool. It's less scary than the Cochrane score,

800
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:32.559
but maybe too big and bold. I mean, what do

801
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:32.840
you think?

802
00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:36.519
Come on again, It's not bad, but I don't know

803
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.239
that I see Batman when I hear it. All in all,

804
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:40.760
Elfman is a great composer though.

805
00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:44.440
Yeah, in this case, not greater than Cochrane, though, because

806
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:48.079
Warner Brothers says, here's your check. We love it, but

807
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.480
we're not using it, so thanks anyway.

808
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:53.280
You know, it's not total loss for him, though, because

809
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.519
they do ask him to do the music for Batman,

810
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:58.360
the animated series in the nineties, and if you watch

811
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.119
that cartoon, you know how good the music is because

812
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:03.320
it really does add to the brilliance of that of

813
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:06.960
that cartoon. But now then the Cochrane score.

814
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.920
Okay, now, This is Batman.

815
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:48.719
This is the music a guy needs if he's gonna

816
00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:50.519
dress up like a bat and beat the crap out

817
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:51.159
of criminals.

818
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.679
Yeah, I mean, criminals are superstitious and kywardle a lot.

819
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:57.679
I mean they have to be because of it. If

820
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:01.039
this music is playing, m they're about to have a

821
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:01.599
bad night.

822
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.599
So brat My only gripe here is what this score did.

823
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.639
The Chad's involvement with Dysomnia, because you know, I love

824
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:12.320
the band. I'm a big, big fan. Uh We've seen

825
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:14.800
them several times. Do you remember back when they co

826
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:19.639
headlined with Metallica ninety one mm hmm, yeah, yeah, but see,

827
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:21.679
they just they were never the same after Chad left

828
00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.280
to pursue scoring movies. And I mean, I get it,

829
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:26.960
you gotta follow your passion. And I'm not. I'm not,

830
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.400
you know, challenging Chad Cochrane on this. I mean, that's

831
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.880
not who am I to do that? But you know,

832
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:33.719
over the years, and you know, over the years he

833
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:37.239
has recorded some new stuff with Dysomnia. I just wish

834
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.199
there were two Chad Cochran's because I wouldn't trade his

835
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.280
film score work, but damn I miss his Dysomnia stuff.

836
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.159
I mean, well, no way would I give up bone

837
00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:51.400
scores for more death metal. I mean, after Batman, you

838
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:55.840
got introduced some even greater stuff. I mean seven James

839
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:59.119
caeron Spider Man and his music for Spartacus Blend saying

840
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:01.159
I mean the I mean, those are just some of

841
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:01.840
my favorites.

842
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.719
Though you know, I was actually looking at Chad's MySpace page.

843
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:09.239
In The big announcement this week is that he's involved

844
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.679
in the new Friday thirteenth film. Now, I know he's

845
00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:15.079
a fan, and I dig the fact that he does

846
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:18.639
everything from blockbusters to indie films and now good old

847
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:22.800
fashioned slasher horror films. So he did a piece for

848
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:28.039
a Revolver magazine. He was talking about Dysomnia's last tour.

849
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:32.400
He's talking about the all the music scores he's done,

850
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:36.159
and when they asked him about Batman, he had this

851
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:39.519
to say. Let me read this here says when I

852
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:42.679
was approached with doing the score, I certainly couldn't believe

853
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.519
it at first. I never thought someone who spent a

854
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:47.480
lot of years in heavy metal would ever get that

855
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:51.519
call for the score. I tried to blend the tragedy

856
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:55.199
of Batman and the Jokers ongoing struggle with the dark

857
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.760
heart of the city. It has its heroic moments, but

858
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:04.920
this is Gotham, not Metropolis. The dude's awesome. Love his stuff, Jeff.

859
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.480
Are you ready to divulge some film real facts?

860
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:12.400
Brad? There is so much and I'm ready. I quote

861
00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.400
the Joker staring down the shotgun of Rupert Thorn Tinchman

862
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.360
when I say, give me both barrels, baby.

863
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:23.159
So Batman was released on June twenty third, nineteen eighty nine,

864
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.800
right in time for the fiftieth anniversary of Batman's first

865
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.639
appearance in Detective Comics number twenty seven. Now, we may

866
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.559
not have had the World Wide Web in nineteen eighty nine,

867
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.880
but we did have magazines like Starlog, Fantastic Films, and

868
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.039
of course Fangoria to Feenix, movie rumors and gossip. So

869
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:42.960
I mean fans were aware of the trouble is behind

870
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.280
the scene, you know. In order to combat that negativity,

871
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:50.679
the theatrical trailer was hastily assembled to be distributed selected theaters.

872
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:54.679
One such trailer was seen in Westwood, California, where it

873
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:59.360
debuted to an unsuspecting audience. The ninety second trailer received

874
00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:01.119
a standing.

875
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:02.639
Ovation in a movie theater.

876
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:06.719
Yes later it would become a popular bootleg at comic

877
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.519
book conventions. Domestically, it was the highest grossing movie the year,

878
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:14.519
you know. Worldwide, it finished just behind Indiandroin's Last Crusade

879
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.239
again River Phoenix having another great year.

880
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.199
Comic book fans will recognize the opening of this film

881
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:25.880
from a popular Batman story now, although a different scene

882
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:29.639
was initially shot. Robin Williams gets his hands on the

883
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:33.400
graphic novel Batman The Killing Joke, which DC released in

884
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:37.519
nineteen eighty eight. During the film shoot, Williams loved the

885
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:41.480
Red Hood origin story so much that Richard Donner convinced

886
00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:45.239
Warner Brothers to let him reshoot the opening to the

887
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.519
sum of three point seven million dollars. That's three point

888
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:51.400
seven million in nineteen eighty nine.

889
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:52.000
Mind you.

890
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.480
There's a great behind the scenes segment on the laser

891
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:58.519
disc about designing the look of the Red Hood with Donner.

892
00:48:58.599 --> 00:48:59.519
That's really great.

893
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:03.119
I mean, does he at least say, how goofy the

894
00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:05.440
face covering red cylinder helmet looks?

895
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:09.360
No, But he does say that when mel Gibson first

896
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:14.159
seen seen Robin Williams wearing it in costume, he couldn't

897
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:18.679
keep a straight face because Williams kept repeating Nanu from

898
00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:19.800
under the helmet.

899
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:23.719
I mean Mork from work. That's great.

900
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.119
How about some details on how Batman gets around town.

901
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:31.800
The Batmobile had a fair share of tinkering done to

902
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.079
it before cruising out of the bat Cave. It was

903
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.280
built on the chassis of a Chevy Impala, with the

904
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:41.280
Impala engine, the tail lights of a Ferrari, the fuel

905
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:45.239
caps of a London bus, and jet engine parts from

906
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:49.599
a Harrier jump jet. The sliding cockpit was also inspired

907
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:52.679
by the Harrier, with the slim windows of a gun emplacement.

908
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:56.800
It was art director Terry Acklin Snow who added the

909
00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:00.639
headlights of a Honda Civic to the vehicle after noticing

910
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:04.960
their appealing look on his wife's car. Oh and when

911
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.039
he's on foot, Batman, that is a fun fact. Because

912
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:12.760
John Peters wanted a collaboration with Nike for product placement.

913
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:17.079
A close look at Batman's boots reveals that they are

914
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:21.000
in fact Nike Air Trainer threes, but they're all blacked

915
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:24.239
out and Brad, No, you cannot have your own pair

916
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:26.159
because they were never released to the public.

917
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.880
Nikes that you can't buy good good, good product placement

918
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:33.760
John Peters wait to be on top of it now

919
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:36.760
is Jeff. This is the only live action Batman film

920
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:42.599
to feature a just one solitary supervillain. But that almost

921
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.039
wasn't the case because when Tom mckwitz was trying to

922
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:48.119
crack a story, Donner's original idea was for several villains,

923
00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:51.920
with a mind to cast Willem Dafoe as the Joker

924
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.880
and Joe Peshi is the Penguin.

925
00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:57.440
Peschi as the Penguin would have been amazing.

926
00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:00.719
Yeah, I mean they reached out to him, but he declined,

927
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.119
choosing to do, of course, Goodfellas instead, And speaking of

928
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:07.679
good Fellas, at one point during the production delays, producers

929
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:11.719
made three separate offers to Ray Lioda. First it was

930
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:16.159
Blay Harvey Dent, then The Joker, and finally for Batman.

931
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.400
He turned them down each time, stating he wanted to

932
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:21.360
work with Scorsese on Goodfellas.

933
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.480
Your boy, Scorsese, Yeah.

934
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:25.960
Jeff, I've got a big what if for you? But

935
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:29.679
before I drop it, if you know you have any

936
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:33.599
other surprises As a matter of fact, I do. Uh.

937
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.119
If you had to choose one line from this movie

938
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:41.039
as the most famous, the most quotable. What would you

939
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:41.519
say it is?

940
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:44.159
Oh, that's easy. I'm Batman.

941
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:49.760
That line wasn't even in the script. The original line

942
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:54.719
was I am the Knight. And this is going to

943
00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:58.519
blow your mind because the only reason we have the

944
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:03.199
I'm Batman line is because of Michael Keaton. Oh come

945
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:07.599
on now, I'm not making this up. During his reading,

946
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.840
he questioned the dialogue, so Richard Donner challenged him. Listen

947
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:16.840
to this quote about the line change from Donner. Let

948
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:21.000
me read this here quote. Oh yeah, the line in

949
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:24.559
the script the punk is, you know, he's terrified by

950
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:28.880
this freaking a bat costume and screams, what are you Well.

951
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.239
Mike looks at the page a moment, then looks at

952
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.639
me and says, Dick, this line doesn't work. So I

953
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:38.000
says to him, so make it work, and he pauses

954
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:41.119
for a minute. Then this look came over him and

955
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:44.719
he dropped his voice down low and says, I'm Batman,

956
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.199
and boy, we just ate it up.

957
00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:50.639
Well, I mean, who knows, maybe Michael Keaton might have

958
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:52.679
been a good Batman. Oh yea man.

959
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.559
And since I'm quoting the director, I actually have just

960
00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:59.760
one more thing, a quote from another big director Tim

961
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:04.320
Burr at this point, you know, he was briefly considered

962
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:08.360
to direct Batman, but ultimately Warner Brothers didn't have enough

963
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:11.760
confidence in him. Right, So years later he was asked

964
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:15.239
what he thought of the first movie, and he says, quote,

965
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:17.880
I liked parts of it, but the whole movie is

966
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.719
mainly boring to me. It's okay, but it was more

967
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.159
of a cultural phenomenon than a great movie.

968
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:29.480
Well it's Tim now, if you can say anything nice, right, And.

969
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:31.960
Of course he ends up directing the sequel Batman and

970
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:33.840
Robin cape Crusader's in nineteen ninety two.

971
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:36.119
Kind of makes you wonder what Donner thought of his

972
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:37.239
Batman films.

973
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.519
Yeah, all right, so listen, you teased a big what

974
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.079
if I'm ready to hear it. What do you have

975
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:43.639
for us?

976
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:48.360
Okay, I've got three Batman movies that Warner Brothers almost made,

977
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:51.800
And as the Joker said in the movie, you ain't

978
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:58.079
seen nothing yet. Okay, So burst possibility. Steven Spielberg directing

979
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.920
with Harrison Ford as Batman, Michael J. Fox's Robin Tim

980
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:07.480
Curry is the Joker, Dustin Hoffman is the Penguin, Geenet

981
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:12.039
Davis as Silver Saint Cloud. She was a love interest

982
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:17.519
from the comics Bert Reynolds's commissioner Gordon Martin. Sheen is

983
00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:21.760
Harvey Dent and Richard Dreyfuss as gangster Rubert Thorne.

984
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:28.320
I need a moment here to absorb how epically awesome

985
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:33.400
that movie would have been. It's just maybe it's just

986
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:34.039
too big though.

987
00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.920
Yeah, it's very eighties now. But the second film that

988
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.920
almost happened was going to be directed by Joe Dante,

989
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:44.760
who had John Lithgow as the Joker.

990
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:48.320
Okay, now that I like, But who was Dante's Batman?

991
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.400
Get this? He wanted a movie that solely focused on

992
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.840
the Joker, just the Joker. There wasn't going to be

993
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.800
a Batman in the movie. I mean in the end,

994
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:02.800
lift go Ou wasn't sure it would work, so he

995
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.039
talked Joe out of casting him, which freed him up

996
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.440
to do Madame, Butterfly and Bot basically Broadway.

997
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:11.840
I I love Joe Dante, but that is a terrible idea,

998
00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:13.119
is it.

999
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.920
The I mean, think about it for just a minute.

1000
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:19.280
I don't need to you. You can't make a Batman

1001
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:23.920
movie without Batman. It doesn't work. Even in an alternate

1002
00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:27.639
universe where mister mom is driving the Batmobile. A standalone

1003
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:32.079
Joker movie would fail. I mean, what's next a Batman

1004
00:55:32.119 --> 00:55:35.119
TV show that doesn't have Batman? Is it just a

1005
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:40.159
show called Gotham? Nope, sorry, Joe, We're moving on.

1006
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:43.199
Okay, Well I left the weirdest one for the last.

1007
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:47.199
I mean, okay, how about Ivan Rightman doing a comedic

1008
00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:51.480
take on Batman with Bill Murray as Batman and Eddie

1009
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:55.599
Murphia's Robin. It was in development for a while before

1010
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:59.079
I mean before completely fell apart. I mean what happened.

1011
00:55:59.280 --> 00:55:59.760
Yeah.

1012
00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:02.760
Bill Murray gave an interview in which he put out

1013
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:06.000
all the blame on Murphy, you know, saying that Murphy

1014
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:08.719
refused to play rob because he wanted the lead role.

1015
00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:11.119
He went on to say that vanity was the reason

1016
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:12.280
basically the film fell through.

1017
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.239
Never have I ever been so happy to hear that

1018
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:17.840
ego killed a movie.

1019
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:22.400
Apparently they argued who should be Robin. Murray said, I

1020
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:24.599
talked to Eddie Murphy about it, and Eddie wanted to

1021
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:27.880
play Batman. That's as far as the conversation went. I

1022
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:30.440
don't want to be the boy wonder to anybody. Maybe

1023
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:32.800
much earlier when I was a boy, but it was

1024
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:35.599
late in the you know, for that in the eighties. Also,

1025
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.679
I couldn't do the outfit. Eddie looks good in purple,

1026
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:41.559
and I look good in purple. In red and green,

1027
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.920
I looked like one of Santa Elves. There was just

1028
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:47.679
a lot of vanity involved in the production. It wasn't

1029
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:48.360
going anywhere.

1030
00:56:48.639 --> 00:56:52.519
Hold on, so they both looking him purple? So was

1031
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:53.880
it Joker he's talking about?

1032
00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:57.519
Or Batman? Honestly, I can't tell you. I mean, maybe

1033
00:56:57.519 --> 00:56:59.519
Bill was a revered the detail is wrong, or maybe

1034
00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:03.400
iron rightman head pat Man wearing purple. We'll never know.

1035
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.039
Well, one thing we can know is what we think

1036
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:11.880
about several key scenes and themes worth mentioning. Join us

1037
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:15.719
after the break for our Love It or Loathe It segment.

1038
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:22.000
Welcome back, listeners. We have talked about the cast and

1039
00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:25.079
the crew. We have taken you behind the scenes with

1040
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:29.199
our film real facts, and now it's time for Love

1041
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:30.679
It or Loathe It? Are you ready?

1042
00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:33.199
Brad? All right, let's do it. Let's begin.

1043
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.880
So we briefly mentioned it earlier. Let's talk about the

1044
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:40.079
film's opening. It's kind of a prologue, if you will,

1045
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:43.480
showing us the Red Hood heist that goes horribly wrong.

1046
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:48.280
Now, is this is right from the Killing Joe comic book?

1047
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:48.519
Right?

1048
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:50.079
This is like straight from that?

1049
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:53.920
Uh mostly yes. So in the book it is definitely

1050
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:57.719
Batman that's involved in the accident, but here we don't

1051
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:02.159
see Batman outright, we just assume this shadowy figure is

1052
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:03.360
the Batman.

1053
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:06.679
I mean, damn good job finding a guy that looks

1054
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:09.639
like young Robin Williams too. I mean it's it's it's

1055
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:12.559
Robin Williams' voice. I mean they did that with you know,

1056
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.079
Superman with Christopher y voice and you know, the young

1057
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:18.280
car Lark Kent. It's a great action sequence. You know,

1058
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:19.800
the mudic colors are nice touch.

1059
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:20.239
You know.

1060
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:23.119
It sets the tone for warden Folds, which is basically

1061
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.639
a detective story. Batman is first and foremost, I mean

1062
00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:29.039
a detective. I mean I love that.

1063
00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:33.199
I love that. I never would have thought the red

1064
00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:37.639
Hood looking that comic accurate would work, but it really does.

1065
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:41.599
You know, he's got a real sinister appearance. It translated

1066
00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:44.840
beautifully on screen, and I only wish we had more

1067
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.880
time with him. I definitely love it.

1068
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:50.440
Kay. Now, this actor is the same actor we see

1069
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:54.320
in Bruce's Nightmare, right, because Donner keeps saying in the shadows,

1070
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:56.239
but I mean it it looks like him.

1071
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.519
Oh yeah, it's him. I'd say it's him.

1072
00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:03.159
Okay, So then the story does imply that Batman and

1073
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:07.519
Joker are responsible for creating one of another. I mean,

1074
00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:09.519
Donna really doesn't come right out and say it, but

1075
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:11.920
you know it's what we're meant to think. I mean,

1076
00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:15.320
how do you feel about that? You know, coincidence I

1077
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:18.000
mean or irony? I guess I suppose.

1078
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:22.440
I'll cheat and say that While I loathe the idea

1079
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:25.239
of Joker being responsible for the death of Bruce's parents

1080
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:27.519
because it's because it kind of steps on the Red

1081
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:31.400
Hood stuff, I do love that it's ambiguous and open

1082
00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:34.920
to interpretation. I could I could see people walking out

1083
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:37.440
of the theater nineteen eight nine questioning whether it was Joker

1084
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:41.719
who shot his parents or some random mugger. Now, let's

1085
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:45.960
let's talk about the Gotham on Ice fundraiser. We've got

1086
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.519
another scene with Thorn, we get mel in the tuxedo

1087
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.639
showing why he was the perfect choice to play Bruce Wayne,

1088
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:58.360
and then of course Brad Enter Sean Young's Selena Kyle

1089
00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:00.280
bringing all the.

1090
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.440
Heat and the first thing I love about this scene

1091
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:07.599
is discovering who Selena Kyle is. Now we know that

1092
01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:10.920
she eventually becomes Catwoman down the road, but this scene

1093
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:15.239
is great because we're watching her move this exhibit slash fundraiser,

1094
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:18.679
looking at all these priceless diamonds and jewelry, and we're

1095
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:23.400
listening to hushed conversations whispers from other guess gossiping about her,

1096
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:27.400
about her family scandal and questioning whether wealth you know,

1097
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:30.880
where's her money comes from. It kind of feels sorry

1098
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.639
for her, But I mean that shot of her looking

1099
01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:36.119
at the you know, the huge blue diamond where inside

1100
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:38.559
the glass, you know, looking out at her, and then

1101
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.800
you know, Bruce approaches her and she spins around. Only

1102
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:44.480
now it's Bruce's point of view and we're looking at

1103
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.840
her as they walk away. We hang on the case

1104
01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:51.400
just long enough to see the diamond is missing. I mean,

1105
01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:56.079
it's almost like a magic trick and we immediately understand it.

1106
01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:57.599
But she's there.

1107
01:00:57.639 --> 01:00:59.920
To Robbie, I love it too.

1108
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:00.639
Uh.

1109
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:04.239
Selena meets Bruce and then we transition to Thorn's guys

1110
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:07.400
getting a little rough with her.

1111
01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:08.079
Uh.

1112
01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:11.800
That guy is maybe a bit too handsy with her

1113
01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:14.440
for a PG rated superhero movie. You know what I'm

1114
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:17.639
talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, retrieving the diamond from where

1115
01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:21.960
she was hiding it exactly. But the purse gets opened,

1116
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:25.119
all these rubies and Jim spill out. It's a great

1117
01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:28.760
shot because the lightning strikes and we get Batman's shadow

1118
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.159
off the pavement, which it kind of looks like the

1119
01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:35.159
bat signal, and he he trashes like what four guys,

1120
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:39.840
the last one of which gets the I'm Batman line.

1121
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:45.800
It's it's awesome, absolutely awesome. But how about jokers attack

1122
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:48.920
on cert Di Sola? You know, the Grayson family death.

1123
01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:51.679
I mean, it's it's funny in a question nowadays? Is

1124
01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:55.360
because you know, Circo sol is like this, you know,

1125
01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:58.440
huge attraction, you know, even in Vegas. I mean I

1126
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:01.199
think they, yeah, they have a residency there. But I

1127
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:06.000
mean as a kid, I I don't see Circus like that.

1128
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:09.119
You know, where's the where's the elephants, where's you know

1129
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.639
and all that stuff. You know, I understand it.

1130
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:16.480
It's weird. I looked it up. Uh. Circus Lay actually

1131
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:20.039
premiered in June of nineteen eighty four, so it was

1132
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:24.119
relatively brand new and never seen before. I gotta say,

1133
01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:27.239
I think Donner using them instead of a regular circus

1134
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.199
gives Gotham a kind of other worldly vibe, I don't know, futuristic,

1135
01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:35.320
maybe ahead of its time for sure. Yeah.

1136
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:37.559
And when you think you think of that now and

1137
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:39.840
you think of yeah, this stuff they did in Batman.

1138
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:44.280
Yeah, uh and this, well obviously this is this movie

1139
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:46.960
put them on the map, and mad made that attraction

1140
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:48.360
of like super popular.

1141
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:53.199
Right when Robin Williams emerges from the other clowns in

1142
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:55.840
that moment and reveals himself to the crowd, I mean

1143
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:58.639
he's really at his absolute best.

1144
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:01.639
I mean right there, Oh, the the very acrobatic clowns

1145
01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:04.159
didn't I didn't know Robin could move like that.

1146
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:09.440
You know that that is definitely not Robin. That is

1147
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.159
a good old fashion just you know, hammer trickery, you know.

1148
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:16.440
But the cartoony fireworks shooting gun, I mean that that

1149
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:19.000
that's pure joker. I mean, I love the gimmick because

1150
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.599
you do have to laugh, but then you stop laughing

1151
01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:24.960
and he aims it at the audience. And basically Golf's

1152
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:29.119
the front row and dazzling fireworks and you know Engulson

1153
01:03:29.239 --> 01:03:30.440
in Flames.

1154
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:34.559
Well, meanwhile, River Phoenix and the Grayson family are just

1155
01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:39.199
sert deslaying all over the place. They're taking out joker

1156
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:43.079
thugs until it's Bob the Goon. He kind of he

1157
01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:46.159
kind of draws jokers attention to him, and then a

1158
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:50.440
big burst of green and red fireworks explode and they're dead.

1159
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:53.400
I honestly think this scene has more action than the

1160
01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:55.719
Big finale, to be honest. I mean another thing that

1161
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:58.360
works is that you see Bruce Wayne jump in action

1162
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:02.000
help but there's that much you know, he realizes it's

1163
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.719
got to restrain himself a little bit. You can't move

1164
01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:07.280
and jump and you know, be punching around like Batman,

1165
01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:09.400
you know, wearing a you know, your quarter zip sweater

1166
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.400
because people are going to connect the dots. And that

1167
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:16.320
slight hesitation look on Mel Gibson's face just in his

1168
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:20.119
mind he knows his hesitation caused the death of the

1169
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:20.920
flying Grayson's.

1170
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:26.760
Well, it's perfect for the character development because without that guilt,

1171
01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:29.599
it honestly doesn't make sense for him to volunteer to

1172
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:33.559
take Dick Grayson in. And plus River Phoenix is just

1173
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:37.199
so damn good in the moment, he's taking on all

1174
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:40.519
the responsibility for not acting fast enough. I love the

1175
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:41.760
dialogue between them.

1176
01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:42.000
Here.

1177
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:46.599
Bruce says, uh, I'm sorry, son, I wish I could

1178
01:04:46.599 --> 01:04:48.719
have done more to help. I should I should have,

1179
01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:53.599
and River Phoenix gives the line, don't feel bad, mister Wayne.

1180
01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:56.960
It's not like you're trained for this life. I am.

1181
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:01.639
I'm the one who should have done more. Brad Robin

1182
01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:04.679
the boy Wonder is born in that exact moment. Bruce

1183
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:06.840
Wayne knows it and we know it.

1184
01:05:07.639 --> 01:05:11.679
Okay, do we love Bruce's nightmare? I mean we see

1185
01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:15.239
his parents gun down, you know, love it or loath it?

1186
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:15.840
What do you think?

1187
01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.960
Love it? If only for the fact that they had

1188
01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:23.400
Adam West and Julie Newmar playing Thomas and Martha Wayne,

1189
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:27.360
that is just fun fan service. And hats off to

1190
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:29.320
Adam West for that amazing mustache.

1191
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:32.280
I mean I love it too. I mean I love

1192
01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:36.960
the offered stuff here. You know, Brewster is awake, Sweeny sweating, panicked,

1193
01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:39.719
and there's Offerd just making him a drink.

1194
01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:45.519
I couldn't confirm it, but I'm almost positive that's an

1195
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:49.199
old fashioned right. I think he's making it. But I'm sorry,

1196
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:50.360
continue continue.

1197
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:52.840
I think it would have been easy for them to

1198
01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:55.480
just let offer be in the background, you know, just

1199
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.800
the butler, but this scene shows he's more than that.

1200
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:04.880
He's family. And yeah, I mean I wasn't overly kind

1201
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:08.440
about John Asten when we talked about casting, but he

1202
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:11.360
is really good here. And the fact that Alfred is

1203
01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:14.599
the one responsible for Dick Grayson being brought into the

1204
01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:18.360
Bat family is a nice touch. I mean, nothing to

1205
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:20.639
really lose, you know here at all?

1206
01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:25.159
Oh, agreed, Absolutely agreed. I've got one more scene, so

1207
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:28.280
do I Oh, okay, well, I think I know which

1208
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:30.760
one you're going to mention, so I'll go first with

1209
01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:36.800
the big finale talking about Gotham City's two hundredth anniversary parade. Wow,

1210
01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:38.920
what an epic set piece.

1211
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:41.760
Yeah, and to think that that whole city scene is

1212
01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:44.480
about four feet tall.

1213
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.719
This is nineteen eighty nine, and the set design and

1214
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:52.880
effects honestly shouldn't look this good, but they do. I mean,

1215
01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.280
I'm not saying I want to live in Gotham, but

1216
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:58.519
you you just you never get bored with the architecture

1217
01:06:59.000 --> 01:06:59.639
in this film.

1218
01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:03.119
Yeah, I mean, you know, the moment when Joker releases

1219
01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:06.400
the SMILEX compound all the green mist is just I mean,

1220
01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:09.960
it's it's everywhere. Yeah yeah, I mean they lost two

1221
01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:13.079
days of filming because the tie mixture was you know,

1222
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:17.519
wrong of course, and everything and everyone was unexpectedly turned

1223
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:21.239
yes screen, yeah yeah, they said. Robin william showed up

1224
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:23.320
on it set an hour later. He looked around and said, wait,

1225
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:25.880
what am I doing? A Batman movie or the Incredible Hulk?

1226
01:07:26.119 --> 01:07:28.159
You know he oo from around.

1227
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:32.480
He has to be the most fun you can possibly

1228
01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:33.400
have on a film set.

1229
01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:33.800
Uh.

1230
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.480
And I give him credit for his physical stunts because

1231
01:07:37.239 --> 01:07:39.239
you do see that it's Robin Williams taking some of

1232
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:41.000
those tumbles during the showdown with Batman.

1233
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:43.639
Tell me you caught that best of times?

1234
01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:43.719
Not?

1235
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:45.039
Uh?

1236
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:45.440
No?

1237
01:07:46.119 --> 01:07:49.599
Okay, So when Batman is down and Joker takes off

1238
01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:53.400
his jacket, he does the Jack Dundee dance scroll. I

1239
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:55.840
mean you didn't notice that?

1240
01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:59.679
Whoa, You're right, it's it's the one where he does

1241
01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:01.519
he does it for his wife and the best of times.

1242
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:07.079
So yes, Jack part smoking? Yeah, holy cow, how did

1243
01:08:07.119 --> 01:08:07.760
I miss that?

1244
01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:11.920
I've seen this movie so many times and I still

1245
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:15.880
appreciate that what we get here is a believable fight

1246
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:19.359
because Batmanager. I mean, yeah, the Joker is fighting dirty,

1247
01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:21.439
but that's to be expected.

1248
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:24.359
You know, Brad, he kicks him in the bat nuts.

1249
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:26.920
It doesn't get dirt, It doesn't get dirty than that.

1250
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:32.079
You know, I've never understood Selena Kyle. She just happens

1251
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:34.199
to be there. I mean, but I guess we have

1252
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:38.199
to see Sean Young, you know, one last time. You know,

1253
01:08:38.359 --> 01:08:39.600
Lett Dinans know she's still here.

1254
01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:43.119
I mean, I don't mind it, but I mean, to

1255
01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:45.279
be fair, it doesn't make sense, but it didn't take

1256
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:48.560
away from the scene. And with that there is just

1257
01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:53.000
one last scene to love or loathe? Am I right? Uh?

1258
01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:57.800
Yeah, okay, I mean you my best William Peterson impression.

1259
01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:00.920
We're not the same pal. I'm I'm a badge, You're

1260
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:05.960
a bat William Peterson as Lieutenant Gordon confronting Batman and

1261
01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:08.000
kind of laying out some ground rules.

1262
01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:12.239
Yeah. We so we can see that Batman is injured

1263
01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.840
and but Gordon has kind of got him covered. He

1264
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:18.720
makes the choice to protect him because he knows, I mean,

1265
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:21.800
think about he knows that his daughter Barbara would not

1266
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:25.159
be alive if Batman hadn't interfered that Gotham harbor. So

1267
01:09:26.359 --> 01:09:27.720
you know, I like what you said, like about the

1268
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:31.079
ground rules because they they kind of define what will

1269
01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:36.159
become their modus operande moving forward. Absolutely love it, Yeah.

1270
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:39.560
As do I you know what I load though, I

1271
01:09:39.560 --> 01:09:41.720
mean it's something we really haven't mentioned.

1272
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:43.319
What about one of these scenes?

1273
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.520
No, no, no, no, just just in general, what's that

1274
01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:51.520
Mel Gibson is Batman. I mean, he's he's amazing in this.

1275
01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:55.000
He's more amazing, of course than nineteen ninety twos Batman

1276
01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:58.039
around and Cape Rusader's. But they don't bring him back

1277
01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:02.720
in ninety five for Batman or A. I mean, Warner

1278
01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:03.920
Brothers should have made that happen.

1279
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:07.319
Hey that well, it's on him though, you know they

1280
01:10:07.359 --> 01:10:10.199
wanted him back, but he was ready to move on,

1281
01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:14.399
and instead of a third Batman film, he chose to

1282
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:19.279
direct and star in Braveheart, which is an incredible movie.

1283
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:23.520
But I'm with you. It's always tough when they change

1284
01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:25.479
on an actor for an established character.

1285
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.479
But I thought he was contract you know, like contractedly

1286
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:33.159
obligated to do it, though, I mean that's what I thought.

1287
01:10:33.720 --> 01:10:37.479
Well, he so he was, but Warner Brothers restructured as

1288
01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:42.199
Batman deal, so instead of him doing one more Batman film,

1289
01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:46.520
he had to do a three picture deal and those

1290
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:50.239
movies ended up being Conspiracy Theory, which I thought was

1291
01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:55.159
great Edge of Darkness, and then an uncredited role in

1292
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:59.279
Father's Day, which technically did see him reunite with Robin Williams.

1293
01:10:59.319 --> 01:11:02.159
But I'm with you, I would take another Batman over

1294
01:11:02.199 --> 01:11:02.640
those three.

1295
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:05.560
Yeah, it's too bad him and Donner kill off Riggs

1296
01:11:05.560 --> 01:11:07.399
at the end of you know, Leath the Weapon two,

1297
01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:09.520
because he could have done a few more of those.

1298
01:11:09.680 --> 01:11:13.800
I mean, so leith a Weapon three, I mean with

1299
01:11:13.880 --> 01:11:19.399
an absolute critical, huge commercial bomb that could have worked

1300
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:21.079
with ris.

1301
01:11:21.279 --> 01:11:25.439
That Leith the Weapon three, that is one bad movie.

1302
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:29.680
I mean, I think having Murta still not retired but

1303
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:33.000
promoted the police captain kind of worked. But then having

1304
01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:36.680
two cops on the edge being forced to work together

1305
01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:38.399
and see who was going to out crazy who? That

1306
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:39.439
was just kind of stupid.

1307
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:43.279
Well, I mean, what's done is done. I mean, I mean,

1308
01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:45.720
I'd say we're done for this episode.

1309
01:11:46.520 --> 01:11:50.000
All that remains is whether Richard Donner's Batman is worth

1310
01:11:50.039 --> 01:11:52.000
watching and worth owning.

1311
01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:55.560
Clearly the answer is yes to both.

1312
01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.119
Ah, But the question is, my friend, are you ready

1313
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.760
to upgrade from that tired, worn out VHS copy you

1314
01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:09.399
own in favor of the amazing thirty fifth anniversary Collector's

1315
01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:10.520
Edition laser disc.

1316
01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:14.720
No, I told you I like look. I like my

1317
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.439
movies looking like the way they did when I saw

1318
01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:18.520
him in the theater. Okay, I happen to like the

1319
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.840
film grain and the sound that occasionally pops and crackles.

1320
01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:24.560
I know, you guys think it's crazy, but that cinema

1321
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:28.439
in its purious, you know, purest form from you know,

1322
01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:29.600
this cinema nerd eye.

1323
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:34.079
But you're missing out on so many extras, the featurettes,

1324
01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:37.039
the audio commentaries, the deleted scenes.

1325
01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:39.600
Ah, but they're so big. I'll tell you know, I'll

1326
01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.760
tell you this. When they finally come up with a

1327
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:45.640
laser disc that's maybe the same size as a you know,

1328
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:46.520
like a CD.

1329
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:49.279
They will never be able to do that. You're you're

1330
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:52.279
talking about compressing way too much data onto a seat,

1331
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:54.000
like something the size of a CD. What what would

1332
01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:54.600
you even call that?

1333
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:58.199
I don't know. I mean VHS? What does that stand for?

1334
01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:02.199
Video home The mean video home system? Yeah? CDs or

1335
01:13:02.199 --> 01:13:05.520
compact this digital video disc?

1336
01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.800
Yeah, something like digital digital video disc. But a DVD

1337
01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:12.239
that that sounds absurd.

1338
01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:15.079
They would figure it out. They come up with a

1339
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:16.960
cool name you know for it.

1340
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:20.960
It would work well, Listeners, If you'd like to figure

1341
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:24.239
out where we got all this incredible information and these

1342
01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:27.760
great stories from behind the scenes, We're happy to send

1343
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:30.039
you straight to the source. Tell them about it, Brad.

1344
01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:34.800
Okay, this episode would not be possible without a copy

1345
01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:38.479
of Dark Knight Silver Screen, A History of Batman on

1346
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.560
Film by New York Times best selling author Van Allen Plexico.

1347
01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:45.840
I gotta say it's it's the most comprehensive book ever

1348
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:48.359
written about I mean, all three Batman films.

1349
01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:52.840
I have my copy. Also a quick nod to mister Plexico.

1350
01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:55.479
I happen to be a huge fan of his heist books,

1351
01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:59.159
which means I'm beyond excited about Miami Heist coming out

1352
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:02.079
this summer, which is based on the first book.

1353
01:14:02.359 --> 01:14:03.079
That was book.

1354
01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:04.760
I saw that preview.

1355
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:07.119
I mean the Naxi Gold in the casino with the

1356
01:14:07.119 --> 01:14:09.439
guy from the from the James Bond movies.

1357
01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:14.920
That's the one. Listeners. We hope you've enjoyed our conversation

1358
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:18.399
about Richard Donner's Batman, and we welcome all of your

1359
01:14:18.439 --> 01:14:20.039
questions and your comments.

1360
01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:23.760
That's right. We love talking film with each and every

1361
01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:26.000
one of you out there, so add to the World

1362
01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:29.840
Wide Web and find us on MySpace, Friends, Sir or

1363
01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:32.000
Brad's movie blog, Cinema.

1364
01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:35.239
Nerds, and next time on a film buy.

1365
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:52.000
Yeah, so I got a.

1366
01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:52.479
Question for you.

1367
01:14:53.039 --> 01:14:54.039
Yeah.

1368
01:14:54.199 --> 01:14:58.520
Yes, it's weird that Warner Brothers have have been sitting

1369
01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:01.279
on the Batman fran chis they haven't really done anything

1370
01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:04.560
with it. Think about what Paramount did with with Tom

1371
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:07.560
Cruise in that Iron Man movie. Like people still want

1372
01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:09.840
superhero movies, right, Yeah.

1373
01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:14.680
It's still a bankable commodity when it's done, rights, James

1374
01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:17.239
Cameron spider Man, perfect example.

1375
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:19.000
Perfect film, perfect film.

1376
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:22.119
I think the big hope was that everybody wanted this

1377
01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:27.279
dream world where you got Iron Man and four and

1378
01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:30.800
Hulk and everybody cross singing over give. Do you realize

1379
01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:31.920
how much money that would cost?

1380
01:15:32.479 --> 01:15:36.039
Well, there's no chance that we'll never see that because

1381
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:39.520
the movie studios, all the movie studios are not gonna

1382
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:42.720
get together because Fox owns one and right, you know,

1383
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:45.640
Paramount owns everyone everyone had like Marvel when they when

1384
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:47.800
Marvel went bankrupt and went out of business, they sold

1385
01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:52.520
off all all the characters that don't ever like like

1386
01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:54.880
an Avengers movie is is impossible?

1387
01:15:55.439 --> 01:15:58.880
Never Yeah, maybe you know, maybe one day, maybe one

1388
01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:00.560
day for like our kids.

1389
01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:05.439
Yeah, only in an alternate universe. My friend Leonas