Feb. 27, 2026

A Script By: William Goldman - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

A Script By: William Goldman - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

Before it was a film, it was a script. Brad Koszo dives deep into some of Hollywood's most celebrated screenplays to analyze their structure, themes, and page-to-film journey. Get ready for a look at the writers behind the words as he explore their...

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Season 7A Film By...

Before it was a film, it was a script.
Brad Koszo dives deep into some of Hollywood's most celebrated screenplays to analyze their structure, themes, and page-to-film journey. Get ready for a look at the writers behind the words as he explore their process, what influenced them, and how they inspired some of the iconic cinema we enjoy today.

Our own Angela Norris joins Brad on this limited monthly series, as they turn the page on William Goldman's Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid!

Check out our NEW YouTube Channel and subscribe now! If you're one of the first 100 subscribers, you'll be entered to win a weekend pass for one of several comic cons happening in 2026!

Head over to our Patreon and get started with a FREE 7-day trial. We've got plenty of exclusive content and episodes that you'll only find there! You can also sign up as a free member!

www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on Instagram, X, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

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Welcome to a script By Episode two. I'm Brad Kozo.

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Thanks for joining me on this show. We break down

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some of Hollywood's most notable screenplays and explore why they

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remained so powerful on the page. For our first episode,

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I had a great time diving into the darkness of

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Chinatown with Chuck Bryant from the cinematic Flashback. But today

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we're shifting gears. Last episode we had incest, murder and

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political corruption. But this time we're going to lighten the

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mood and the tone as we head out west with

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William Goldman's Academy Award winning screenplay for Butch Cassidy and

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the Sun Dance Kid. This script brought charm, wit, excitement,

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romance to a genre many believe was fading, the American Western.

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Instead of the mythic heroism associated with films by John

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Ford or Howard Hawks, Goldman takes a myth versus reality

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approach when initially Hollywood called this script unfilmable. From its

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masterful opening ten pages to what an unforgettable freeze frame,

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we're breaking down how this screenplay reshaped the Buddy film

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and why it still works today. This is a script

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by Let's turn the page Welcome back to a script

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by I am your host, Brad Kozo, and this is

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episode two, a script by William Goldman, Butch Cassidy and

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the Sundance Kid, with iconic lines like I've got vision

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and the rest of the world, whereas by vocals I

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can't swim and the endlessly repeated who are those guys?

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This is a western that ref fuses to behave like one.

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Today we're examining a screenplay that breaks the traditional mold,

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a western that doubles as a buddy film that balances

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humor with inevitability, charm with consequence, and proving that the

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script is just as compelling on the page as it

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is on screen. But before we get into our deep dive,

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I want to welcome my guest for tonight. This is

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a second show I'm doing, so it's the first time

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I'm meeting miss Angela Norris from a film by an

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atypical review contributor. Angela, thank you so much for doing this,

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and welcome to a script.

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By Thank you for having me pleasure to be here.

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When did you first see this film? And like later on,

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like you know, what do you think? Like what did

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you think about the script? You know, the writing of it.

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I first watched this my grandpa loved westerns, and of

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course my grandmother was a huge Palm Newman fan, and

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of course but Cassidy and Sentence Kid made her a

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Robert Redford fan too.

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So so I'd seen this when I was a kid,

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had been.

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Quite a long time before I would see it again.

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So after my rewatch this week, it's probably been about

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fifteen twenty years since I last watched it.

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Oh wow, So.

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There's been a bit of a yeah gap between the

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first and kind of like, you know this the young

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adult viewing and then the now viewing. So yeah, for

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analytical purposes, So I enjoyed obviously, you know, robbing a train,

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you know, the the posse, you know, the whole the

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whole gang robber thing, and then then being chased you know,

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across the wild West, and they're just that.

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That buddy feel to it. And then you know, watching

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it in later years, especially this the current rewatch, the

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writing as far as yeah, that it wasn't your typical Western.

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It wasn't you know, like the you know, sorry like

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your tip, you know, like John Wayne stuff. You know

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these you know, they're like.

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Fleeing that was the stuff that I grew up on.

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Yeah, they weren't.

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Yeah, And and that was huge in my family's you

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know too, So it wasn't you know, you had him,

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you know, John Wayne Clint Eastwood.

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They would always be like that.

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One guy, you know, the center of it all, and

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you know, everybody you know fear them. This was very

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different because you had the buddy feel to it, a

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little bit more of the humor element with it. And

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then also them running away, not just like leaving the

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state or the west, but they left the country.

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So that was.

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You know, to divert outlaws or the law.

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And out of all the places, you know, and it

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again I think, you know, like Sundan's are in Bolivia? Yeah,

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do you know what or even where that is?

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That?

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And the thing is what's great about that is even

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as you hear it, you're like, where your your reaction

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is just the same as them. Where the hell is Bolivia?

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Right?

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You? Yeah, you have to stop and think about it,

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and you're you're not really you know, sure. And I

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didn't see this movie until kind of later, you know,

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at least as I was like, you know, in my twenties.

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I finally saw it and I noticed how different was

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compared to like, you know, Pale writer, you know, the

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searchers you know, and all that stuff, and like it

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was completely different, you know, and it was fun and

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laughable and then the more and more just you're and

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also too, it's just that chemistry between those two. I mean,

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he really knew how to write for those two, I mean,

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and it's it also helps when the casting was just

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perfect for those two.

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Yes, and we're lucky because it almost didn't.

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Yeah, yeah, didn't.

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It didn't start with them too.

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It could have been very different and we could be

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talking about another movie instead.

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Right now, Well, we'll get into a little bit of

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the writer. William Goldman's background, you know before Butch and

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Sun Dance, you know, made him a household name. He

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was already established novelists from the fifties and sixties, and

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he basically built his reputation writing commercial you know, fiction novels,

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you know. And I think he kind of broke in

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with this movie h Harper with Paul Newman, of course,

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and funny enough, I haven't seen it, but now now

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I'm going to.

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I haven't seen that one either.

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I'm sure it's great. He became fascinated with the real

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Butcher and Sun Dance because he was reading about him,

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and every time he was reading about he noticed something unusual.

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I mean it was they weren't remembered for their brutality.

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They were remembered for their their personalities. They were apparently charming, talkative,

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like almost insecure, and that just like intrigued him stay

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with him for years because he couldn't turg out the tone.

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You know, was it a comedy, it was it a tragedy,

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a parody of a Western? And then eventually just realized, well,

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I think it's all three. And then when he finally

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wrote it in the mid sixties, they didn't know what

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to do with it, you know that They were like,

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it feels modern, but it's supposed to be a Western.

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The heroes talk too much, it ends on a freeze frame.

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And yet the script sold for an unheard of four

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hundred thousand dollars.

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Oh good, Yeah, I cannot imagine what that would equal

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out to today's money, but I'm sure it's got several

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more zeros.

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I mean, four thousand dollars for a script even today

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is pretty pretty good, I think, But I mean, why

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why did he get that much because the writing was

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just undeniable. I mean, the banter crackled. I mean the structure,

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the structure is so tight. Even that friendship, it felt

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you could feel the friendship on the page. And he

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wasn't he wasn't selling the wash and he was he

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was he was trying to sell a movie you could

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already kind of like see already, and you know, and

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that basically just changed his career forever.

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And also too with a friendship dynamic that usually in

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that line of work you really couldn't trust anybody. And

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obviously he you know, in the beginning, we see that

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his original gain had already kind of almost started to

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turn on him.

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But but those two.

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Like you really could feel that they could count on

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one another, and that's how they were able to, you know,

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have a partner partnership, you know, with that as well,

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not just so a lone ranger type thing.

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Yeah, exactly. Well, before we get into our deep dive,

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we're going to take our first break, and when we

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come back, we will jump into the first ten pages

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and Act one of Butcher Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kit.

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Welcome back. We are talking Butch and Sundance and divinating

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to the first ten pages, which may be considered one

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of the best character reveals of all time. You know,

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I mean one of the smartest things that Goldman does

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in those pages is reveal Sundance, not through dialogue, but

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through his reputation. You know, we don't learn who Sun

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Dance is because he doesn't tell us. We learn who

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he is because of the way the room reacts to him,

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you know, the card player that he's planning against making,

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you know what his fear does our storytelling, you know,

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and then when he's like, we you know, are you

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really that good? And it showed he shows us, then

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the myth is finally confirmed. You know, we don't have

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to explain it. This technique is kind of copy, well

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not copy, but I believe homage, you know, a few

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times in really great way, like uh in the original

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Mad Max. You know, they they kind of use this.

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You we here the other officers talking about him with ernency,

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you know, send Max. His reputation enters the scene before

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he even does, and when he shows up, calm and

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controlled once again, that myth makes the reaction, you know,

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or or escape from New York with Snake Plisten. He's

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introduced to us by Bob Howk. He's you know, listing

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off his exploits, his military record, everything. But they basically

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treat him like a legend before we've even seen him,

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you know. And so they tell us who snakes in?

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You know, that's that's myth first writing. You know, that's

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that's great. And he does this and and Goldman does

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it in about ten pages mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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And even if you're reading it, you don't know who

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the man is because he has it listed as under

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like a description name, not his actual name.

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Right, So what makes this kind of reveal work? I

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mean is it? Is it the silence of it or

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is it the way that the other characters are, you know,

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is reacting.

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Probably a little bit of a little bit of both,

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but definitely, like you said, the reaction of you know,

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making and and uh, you know, Robert Redford just playing.

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It, oh so cool.

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You're not really you're not really seeing his eyes in

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the beginning either, I don't think. Isn't his hat like

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a little bit too low? So you're just watching him

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flip the cards. I'm sorry if I'm describing that wrong.

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And it just yeah, and it's just on him, so

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you just hear the other person's voice. Yeah, so you

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don't even know, like who is he even you know.

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Messing with?

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Or is the person that we're looking at? Is that

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meant to be the distraction? And the person we should

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should be worrying about is the one, you know with

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the back And then of course then you know, Butch

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comes in and the whole cheating thing, and.

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I mean, it's so just you know, you're starting to

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kind of believe him, you know, that's that's how good

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he is at talking. You're starting to believe him saying like,

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you know, you're good kid, but you know he's and

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then it's just he knew just to say, I don't

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know what to tell you sun dance, and just everyone's just.

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Like, oh, righting against me.

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And then you can probably you know, all of a

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sudden hear the clenching of making like, oh god, I

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just accused him of cheating. Yeah, and even if and

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even if he did, I should do that because of

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who he is.

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Yeah, and the way they they leave it's nice and

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you just say, these guys are yeah, they're they're they're outlaws,

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but these are good guys. You know, they're not going

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to hurt anything anyone. They don't want to hurt, you know.

226
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.120
They're just like, well, well right, we're out of here.

227
00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:47.240
Right and then and then playing that of uh making making.

228
00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.440
Like no you need you need to invite us to stay.

229
00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:51.480
We we have to be the one to say no,

230
00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:53.840
we can't be here. So, yeah, that was just a

231
00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.600
little fun little.

232
00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:58.159
You know, basically a cat playing with its you know,

233
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:04.519
mouse before killing it. Yeah, just just teasing, Yeah, having

234
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:05.399
a little fun with that.

235
00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:11.480
Yeah. Well then we'll get into act one, Act one

236
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.480
of Butch and Sundance. It's built on the charm of them,

237
00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.720
but it's kind of power by mistake. I mean they Goldman,

238
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:23.559
He lets us you find their rhythm, you know, their banter.

239
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.960
They got sharp banter, robberies. They all seem smooth. Butcher

240
00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.799
talks his way out of problems. Sundance says, little you know,

241
00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:35.960
they seem in control. The weird the inciting incident this

242
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.240
time is that when Bert Butch learns that there's payroll

243
00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:44.000
train is run twice a month, and he's like, oh,

244
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:47.159
they were, then let's do it twice, you know, And

245
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:52.240
that's the choice. There's there's your incident right there. Without that,

246
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.440
then there's it's still inevitability. But that's the thing that

247
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:01.159
sets it all in motion. It's something it's not something

248
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.840
that happens to them. He chose it, you know. But

249
00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.799
that's the different you know, uh, from the end of outground,

250
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:13.600
I mean, the consequences of that decision. You don't see

251
00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.799
it first, but you know they build, build slowly, you know,

252
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:24.000
you know, then the super posse arrives and those guys

253
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:27.639
do not go away, I mean, and then so and

254
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:31.879
then you hear this line, this repeated line that has

255
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:37.320
a different meaning almost each time. It said the who

256
00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:38.159
are those guys?

257
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:38.480
Now?

258
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.720
First it's who are those guys? They're coming after us?

259
00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.519
Then it became, wait a minute, who are those guys?

260
00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.480
You know, they're they're specifically chasing them. Every trick that

261
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:54.480
they do is not working, and all their old tricks

262
00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.399
that would always work, and they just keep coming and coming.

263
00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.399
And in the script and you'll you can you'll know

264
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.080
this too, that it keeps saying they keep coming, like

265
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.720
any Goldman writes it, like you know, like they just

266
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.559
they're never ending. They're they're they're never ending. That's where

267
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:11.240
they're not care free outlaws anymore.

268
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.919
Right, stuff just got real.

269
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:20.799
Yeah, I think it might have been sun Dance. I

270
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:22.639
can't remember if it's Butch or sun Dance. But one

271
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.600
of the times an it's just like, who are those guys?

272
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:30.279
It's said with a we're in trouble. Who are those guys?

273
00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:34.799
They are too good? We're in trouble now, you know.

274
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:40.159
So then it's just survival from then on, you know.

275
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:44.320
And so the Act one it works if you want

276
00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.120
to put it like, you know, structurally, ambition starts the story,

277
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.840
consequence closes the act. Now we don't have to do

278
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.159
this every episode want to film, I'll just kind of

279
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:00.519
do this. But Act one ends around page third or something,

280
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.639
around a half hour in the film. So the structure's perfect,

281
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:06.720
and he just builds them both out of their character.

282
00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.200
But I guess my question to you, Angela, is is

283
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.879
a story really about outlaws being hunted or about men

284
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.039
who refuse to see their time is just over?

285
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:24.000
I think definitely the ladder. I believe.

286
00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:28.240
They just like they had a good run. You start

287
00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.639
getting you know. I think, you know, if he would

288
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.799
have just been happy with hitting it the train once,

289
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.320
who knows, maybe the posse wouldn't have, you know, the

290
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.440
super posse come after them. You know, it's like when

291
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:46.240
will enough be enough? And yeah, when the greed takes over?

292
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.759
And you know, I know what was the other line

293
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:50.960
that he likes to say is I have vision. The

294
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.200
whole world has bifocals, right, you know. So obviously he

295
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:59.039
a little little overconfident, a little you know, yeah, and

296
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.519
he didn't really didn't really has never really faced a

297
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.319
serious consequence to his action. And now it is in

298
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.559
a very very very big way with interest maybe even.

299
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.000
Yeah, and it still always ends up poor.

300
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.599
Yes, Like Eda says, Oh, it's.

301
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.240
Because you you buy everyone drinks and you spend too

302
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.519
much money buy things you don't need. And he's like, yeah, yeah.

303
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.039
I guess, Yeah, I guess I have I hand in

304
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.480
my own problems. Who the tunk?

305
00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.240
He doesn't, he doesn't. He doesn't want to quit, right

306
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:32.680
you know, and you know.

307
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.839
So yeah, guys like that just yeah, they don't, they

308
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:37.319
don't quit. Yeah.

309
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.759
So we're gonna take our second break and we come back.

310
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.240
We're going to dive into act two of Butcher casting

311
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:47.279
the Sun Dance Kit. Welcome Back. Act two is where

312
00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:50.839
the charm starts to kind of wear thin after the

313
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.799
cliff jump, the famous cliff jump. The chase is done,

314
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:58.640
then you know, the super posse they keep coming and

315
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.880
then that's the shift. You know, this this isn't the

316
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.440
Old West anymore.

317
00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:03.720
You know.

318
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:08.119
The law now is they're organized, they're very strategic, they're modern.

319
00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.640
He's not out, he's not being you know, he's not

320
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.240
just doing like the thing about a local sheriff. He's

321
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.880
being tracked by a system. You know, I mean those

322
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.440
like I said, with those those who are those guys,

323
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.839
they start out as humor, but byack too. It's anxiety.

324
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.440
You know, every attempt they try to get rid of

325
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.960
this posse, they can't do it. The splitting up of

326
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.799
the horses, that doesn't work, jumping from two horses to

327
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:42.960
one and think nothing. Nothing is worning is working. So

328
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.839
the midpoint is when they decide to leave for Bolivia. Now,

329
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.079
on the surface it feels like escape, you know, but

330
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:56.279
structurally it's it's it's exile. They're not expanding the frontier.

331
00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:01.359
They're they're out of it. They ran out. So in Bolivia,

332
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:05.359
you know, the robberies they continue, but the rhythm changes,

333
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:10.359
language barriers, smaller stakes, you know, they're less confidence. You know,

334
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.119
the charms still there, but it's getting there. You know.

335
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.720
Goldman kind of puts in these things of they look

336
00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.640
a little not old, but older. You know, she's just

337
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:24.079
a little bit older each time. And then there's Etta.

338
00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:28.559
She's basically she sees it. She sees the future clearly

339
00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:33.039
than then either one of them can. She knows his

340
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.119
life has an expiration date, you know, you know it's

341
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:42.119
when she leaves. It's it's a quiet, you know, but powerful,

342
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:46.640
you know, signal that the fantasy just it can't last.

343
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:47.000
You know.

344
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:51.240
So by the end of Act two, butch and Sentence

345
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.359
aren't really leading the myth anymore. They're just reacting to it.

346
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.359
I mean, the world's changing, you know, whether where they're

347
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.759
ready for it or not. You know, so it just

348
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:03.400
it just like he's he says it at the beginning,

349
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.759
you know, I'm like, it's it's with some way of life,

350
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.000
you know, it's you can't stop it. You all get older.

351
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.599
Is Act too? Is it about really being chased or

352
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:19.079
is it about them just their their modernization catching up

353
00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.079
with their with their mythos.

354
00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.880
Part of being able to survive is being able to adapt.

355
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.759
And you know, they tried going straight quote unquote for

356
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:33.240
like a hot minute. That didn't quite work because if

357
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.519
they're not the ones being the robber, somebody else will anyway,

358
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.759
and then they still don't get you know, at least

359
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.480
if they're the ones who are doing the robbing, they.

360
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:45.279
Get paid at the end of the day, and like

361
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.640
you said, it's it's lower stakes.

362
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.960
And also just kind of the you know, the landscape

363
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:56.960
that you also kind of feel, least I did, it

364
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.599
starts basically like taking yeah, like candy from a baby

365
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:02.319
kind of if that, if that makes sense.

366
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.160
I don't know, it just didn't seem like there was

367
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:07.759
I don't know, as much a challenge.

368
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.400
I mean, even with the language, beer and stuff like that,

369
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.400
it just baby seemed to be kind of like low

370
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:12.279
hanging fruit, if that.

371
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.200
Well, especially a major difference to the banks from the

372
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.559
very very beginning. Yeah, you know, it's it's you know,

373
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:21.799
and and they're having some fun at first, you know,

374
00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:23.519
they're trying to make the best of it, you know,

375
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.960
when they arrive there, it's it's it's funny.

376
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.680
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with Sundance of like,

377
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.519
you know what, I'm just going to shoot you right

378
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.240
now myself, and what could you possibly want here?

379
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.640
But that's the thing that that Yeah, that cracks me up.

380
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:51.119
And then her just kind of being there with them,

381
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.960
it's it's almost like one last ride, you know. And

382
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:58.079
and she even kind of I think she even thinks

383
00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:00.759
of it as kind of a going away party. What

384
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:02.720
do you think I think she do you think she's

385
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.880
aware of that at the b before she goes or

386
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:06.720
while she's there.

387
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:13.839
I think she's educated and wise enough to understand, I mean,

388
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.319
knowing who these men are and how long that they

389
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:19.839
have known each other, because you know, they do say

390
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.400
that in a little bit of not just in their context,

391
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.359
but also in their dialogue, that they have known each

392
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:25.839
other for several years.

393
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:29.160
And you know it's in you know, like.

394
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.039
She had said, Hey, I'm twenty six, I'm a school teacher.

395
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.200
You guys are the most you know, exciting thing, you know,

396
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.599
I've had. Before they go on to the steamship, they

397
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:41.039
have a great day at Coney Island. You know, you

398
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:44.039
see all the fun stills and the pictures and stuff

399
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.160
that she wouldn't have been able to experience, you know otherwise.

400
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:52.440
And probably once they do step onto that platform in Bolivia,

401
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.480
it probably was like, oh my goodness, maybe this fun right,

402
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.319
is going to be a lot shorter than what I thought. Yeah,

403
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.240
I knew there would be you know, uh, definite short lived,

404
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.799
but maybe didn't realize how short lived.

405
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.079
Right, you know it would be until you know, until

406
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.680
she saw that.

407
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:12.480
So and then she made her you know, exit appropriately

408
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:13.759
as she should have. Yeah.

409
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:20.799
Yeah, So Act three begins when the illusion finally starts

410
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:25.480
to collapse. They're in Bolivia, the robberies, they start to unravel.

411
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.079
You know, for the first time, they kind of really

412
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.079
look mortal. They try to like, they try to go straight,

413
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:35.720
but it just does it doesn't feel right.

414
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.559
Yeah, yeah, it's it's just so awkward, like it just yeah.

415
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.000
But they're pretending to be in a world that's basically

416
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.799
already move on. And then and then pretty much right

417
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.640
after that, the final robbery just spirals out just so quickly.

418
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:55.119
I mean, they're they're surround they're so outnumbered, and this

419
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:56.720
time there's no clever escape.

420
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:57.200
You know.

421
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:02.119
It's what makes ending really powerful. It's not because it's

422
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.720
a spectacle and it is, you know, it's kind of

423
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:08.920
it's a good gunfight, you know, I'll give them that.

424
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.400
It's a pretty good gunfight. I don't I don't remember

425
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:13.400
the gunfight being as good. So when I watch a

426
00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:17.880
reason like this is a pretty good standoff. But I

427
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.160
think the bigger thing is it's the inevitability. Yes, you know,

428
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.000
he has them charge together and then he so what

429
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:28.640
he does perfect is he freezes it. Then the myth

430
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:33.640
is preserved. We don't see them die, you know, it's

431
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.920
the myth is still alive, and it's that's what they

432
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.359
kind of want, you know. It's definitely different from another

433
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:46.519
kind of mood changing Western or tone changing Western from

434
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.759
the same year. That was Peg and Paul's Wild Bunch

435
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:53.240
kind of did the same thing of with the characters

436
00:24:53.319 --> 00:25:01.079
of losing to modernization. But he does it with chaos, brutality.

437
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.960
I mean, it's explict it's it's operatic. You know, it's

438
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.920
the death of the West. It's it's violent, it's bloody,

439
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:10.640
it's undeniable. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love

440
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.599
the Wild Bunch. You know, it's maybe next year will

441
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.640
have to do a Wild Bunch episode because it's it's

442
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.880
so great. But that's where Goldman just does the opposite.

443
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:24.160
He freezes that myth before they can just get gunned down,

444
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:26.960
you know, like you know, Bonnie and Clyde or you know,

445
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:31.200
or the Gang and the Wild Bunch, you know, like

446
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.160
I said, one of them they show the legend dying,

447
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.839
the other one preserves in the memory. That's the choice

448
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.440
that you know. It's every basically everything about the tone.

449
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:47.680
And I think it it you feel, you feel good.

450
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:49.759
I think at the end of the movie you don't

451
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.000
really feel too sad, you know, or at the end

452
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.000
of the script, you know, you feel like they went

453
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:57.880
out the way they wanted to go out.

454
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.079
Yeah, they went out in that that of glory. Yeah,

455
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.079
and even the like the band like that very in

456
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:06.640
that banter. I don't think it was a matter of them,

457
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:12.640
uh trying to convince themselves that the inevitable wasn't going

458
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.720
to happen, like they were actually you know, about to

459
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:16.119
face their you know, death together.

460
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.839
But I think just that maybe used more like as

461
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:20.400
a as a.

462
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:23.119
Distraction that kind of helped keep them pumped up and

463
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:24.759
going out to do what they did, you know, talking

464
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:28.039
about Australia and still joking about you know, the banks

465
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:30.079
and the women and the beaches, and he's like, well,

466
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:31.920
you don't need to swim, you know, that's not important,

467
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:35.039
that kind of thing. So they kept that up, you know,

468
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.480
while they're trying to like regroup for that last final

469
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:42.400
you know, hurrah, because I don't believe they even realized

470
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:46.119
that they were fully surrounded at that point.

471
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.279
I don't. I don't think.

472
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:54.480
That's what I love that, yeah, no matter what, Yeah,

473
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.559
I mean from you know, being chased by the super

474
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.680
posse to know to this, you know, to the student,

475
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:05.039
they still don't lose that that banter.

476
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.519
Yeah, And I feel like there was a little bit

477
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.079
one last light of because even you kind of forget, man,

478
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.119
they're they're gonna get killed, but then you see them

479
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.119
going back and forth like, oh, well maybe they won't,

480
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:17.799
you know, you know, like it gives you that little

481
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.160
hope just because of the way they're acting.

482
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:23.720
They're like, no, they're they're they're gonna die. Well.

483
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.440
I think it's when right before dam makes the decision

484
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:34.480
to to leave, is she's laying out these possible options

485
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:39.440
for these guys after the uh, the the attempt at

486
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:43.799
going straight, you know, working for you know, the payroll

487
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:46.640
guy gets basically ruined, like we're still gonna get shot at,

488
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:49.839
you know, and and she's kind of thrown out some options,

489
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:53.680
you know, and like what about a farm and like,

490
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.640
which you know, ex financial, I don't know anything about farming,

491
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.839
and like and then like newman saning goes, it's hard,

492
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:05.119
brutal hours, we're too old, we're beat down, we can't

493
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.359
make it, and they both, you know, kind of look

494
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:11.759
and I think then is when they know it's over.

495
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.400
And I think that's why it's easy enough to I

496
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.440
think they both had that understanding then that we're done,

497
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:19.880
we're done.

498
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.200
And at least they were gentlemen about not dragging the

499
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.720
little miss Ata into it. And they're like, hey, whatever

500
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:28.960
you want to do, you know, and and they were probably.

501
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:30.880
Like, yeah you should, Yeah you should.

502
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.480
And I think she don't want to do it. She accepted

503
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.839
who they are. She never tried to change either of them.

504
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.079
They were, you know, sentances kind of a jerk to her,

505
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.000
you know, butch is sweet, so she never tried to

506
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.519
change them. She knew who they were. And that's a great,

507
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:54.279
great character, you know. It's just someone that's just a

508
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:57.039
kind of a nice flower that they can both of

509
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:59.240
them have that that they can hold on to. And

510
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:01.400
I think that's great that they each have something a

511
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:05.720
little special about Eta for both of them, a little

512
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:11.440
little calm in their storm. On our last episode with Chinatown,

513
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:16.079
we talked about the controversial ending of Chinatown. For this episode,

514
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.079
the thing that sticks out the most for me is

515
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:24.599
foreshadowing and basically the end of the era. The most

516
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.000
powerful thing about Goldman Script is that it never hides

517
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.680
that the ending. It foreshadows it from the beginning early on,

518
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:35.920
but says, we all get old. It feels light, but

519
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:41.880
it feels light, but no western that's loaded. These men

520
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.400
aren't built to grow old in this world.

521
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:44.720
You know.

522
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.519
Eda makes it clearer. She tells him, I'll stitch you up,

523
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:52.359
I'll cook your meals, but I won't watch you die.

524
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.039
And she doesn't. She leaves before that final act. As

525
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.599
we all know, that's not character choice, that's prophecy. And

526
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.359
then the the sheriff Sheriff bledsoe. He cuts right to it,

527
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.119
right in the myth. He's got I think one of

528
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.839
the best line, one of the best things about them,

529
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.000
And I want to read what his line is, and

530
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:17.200
it's he says to them, I never met a soul

531
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.519
more affable than you, butch or faster than the kid.

532
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.640
But you're still nothing but a couple of two bit outlaws.

533
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:26.599
On the dodge. You just want to hide out till

534
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.759
it's old times again. But it's over. It's over. Don't

535
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.880
you get that? It's over? And you're both gonna die

536
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:39.519
bloody and all you can do is choose where. And

537
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:48.400
they're structural for shattering, super posse, modernization, organized, relentless repeating.

538
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.640
You know, the who are these guys? It means something

539
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:58.160
at the beginning, you know, humor. Then it's dread Bolivia.

540
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:04.279
It's not freedom, it's exile. So they stop truly winning.

541
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.960
You know, So when that freeze framing arise doesn't shock you,

542
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.599
you know, it's just you're, you're, you're kind of like

543
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.759
you're with it. You know, it confirms what it's been

544
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:17.160
telling us all along. You know this, it's it's not

545
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.079
just the end of the Outlaws, it's the end of

546
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.559
the Old West, and and the myth build around it. Well,

547
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.440
let's move on to page versus screen. So one of

548
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.400
the most fascinating things about The Butcher, Butch Casting and

549
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.400
Sundance is how closely the film mirrors Goldman's script. Now

550
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:41.200
that's partly because Goldman does something that if you're a screenwriter,

551
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.200
this is considered taboo. They don't like you to do this.

552
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:54.279
He writes camera direction, he uses two repeatedly. He signal

553
00:31:54.440 --> 00:32:01.960
edits signals edits shifts visual emphasis. I mean, yeah, the

554
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.559
the most screenwriters, the advice is don't do that, you know,

555
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:13.000
don't direct on the page. Directors hate that. But he

556
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.799
wasn't really micromana. He was just kind of controlling the

557
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.400
rhythm of it. That language. It keeps the comedic timing

558
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:25.839
in the The cinemaic field hasn't added later. It's it's

559
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:27.599
that that cinematic field is kind of in the script.

560
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:31.359
But yeah, but yeah, you're not supposed to do that.

561
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.519
So writers, if you're out, please don't do that. Your

562
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.599
your directors will will will hate that. But the key

563
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.079
difference with Goldman is that he wasn't an unknown writer,

564
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.599
you know, just try and break in. I mean when

565
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.480
his script sold for the four hundred that he was

566
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.599
a well known writer, you know, and he was already established.

567
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:49.799
You know.

568
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.680
They they trusted his voice and that the film and

569
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:59.240
George roy Hill, Uh, he follows that script because the

570
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.119
vision was already there.

571
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:01.720
You know.

572
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:05.559
He didn't ignore the rules, No, he didn't. He understood

573
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:08.400
them well enough. He just ben them a little bit.

574
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.480
Definitely an exception to all those rules.

575
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.960
So then here's my question, when can you break those

576
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:20.279
rules as a screenwriter and when when can't you? You know,

577
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:24.920
do you think they should kind of break the rules

578
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.720
in their writing or should they you know, not break

579
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:33.079
the rules? And who would what kind of people would

580
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.240
be able to do that? Like, I feel like the

581
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.200
only people that maybe be able to do something like

582
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:42.759
that would be well, like what people like Goldman with clout. Yeah,

583
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.359
definitely obviously somebody that's the writer director that's doing their

584
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.440
own writing directing. Yea, but I can see that, I

585
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.480
can see the Coen Brothers doing something you know that

586
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:55.119
kind of really bends that rule.

587
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.160
Yeah, if it's something that's meant to help enhance you know,

588
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:05.359
the scene, the dial that there is a specific vision

589
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:09.519
in order to make that that scene work or that

590
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.280
you know, to provide that content some you know, sometimes

591
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:13.760
it is required because.

592
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.599
You know, if that's part of you know, that that

593
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:18.519
writer's vision.

594
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:22.000
I you know, I can understand how that could come

595
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.320
across to a you know, director that's supposed to be

596
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:27.679
the one making all those calls and things like that.

597
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.519
But sometimes there is a specific it's a tough call no, yeah,

598
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.440
notes vision, I mean, yeah, you definitely don't do it.

599
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:38.920
Don't do it the time. Maybe you'll have it in

600
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:39.800
your head.

601
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.719
Maybe you know, twice. But at the point also too, as.

602
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.199
A writer, you're going to have to kind of let

603
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:48.599
go of somebody else's you know, Yeah, it's going to

604
00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:51.639
have twenty thousand other opinions on it, and you'll be

605
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:57.760
lucky that if even resembles yeah, the piece you even had, yeah, originally,

606
00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:59.880
So if it you know, if you can get it

607
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:01.440
that much off of it, you.

608
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:02.639
Know, check.

609
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:09.480
Yeah, it's unfortunately that's part of the price of art,

610
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:12.039
and you know, filmmaking, you just have to kind of

611
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:17.880
be okay with that that it's still a job and

612
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.760
you're going to have bosses and the heads of people

613
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.639
being the ones to make the decisions in the end,

614
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.280
and just hope that there's still a reflection of.

615
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.039
Your original piece in it with your.

616
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.159
Name on it's on it. Yeah, So we're going to

617
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.559
move on to dialogue, character and subdets. I mean, it's

618
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.920
it's obvious the reason this script is still feels alive.

619
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:45.800
It's the dialogue, you know, it's it's not it's not

620
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:54.519
cool lines. I mean, it's it's it's rhythm. Butch talks constantly, clever, optimistic,

621
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:58.599
I always got the next idea. You know, it's but

622
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:04.280
he keeps control even when these are going terribly and

623
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.719
Sundances the counterweight. You know, he speaks least, and when

624
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.320
he does it's it's direct.

625
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:14.159
You know, it's worth it's worth listening to.

626
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.079
Yeah. Yeah, it's like, oh, he's fine. It's like a

627
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.559
silent bob. It's like he's okay, he said what yes,

628
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.719
But yeah, underneath that banter there, there's there's subtext. You know,

629
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.039
when when Butch says I've got vision, that's his confidence,

630
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:32.960
but it's also it's it's denial mm hm. When when

631
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.719
Sundance says I can't swim, it's yeah, it's funny, but

632
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:41.199
then you see a little bit of vulnerability for Sundance.

633
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.280
You know, even he uses charm to make us kind

634
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.360
of lean in but kindly reminding the host they're running

635
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:53.639
out of time, you know. The humor, the humor keeps

636
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:59.960
them humor, the humor makes them human. But the subtext is,

637
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.639
you know, is that the ending is inevitable. You know,

638
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.719
that's the balance that why it keeps going, which which

639
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:12.480
brings us to legacy and lessons. It's this the movie.

640
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.320
The script changed the what a Western could be. You know,

641
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:19.639
instead of the mythic heroism with you know, Ford and Hawks,

642
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:26.639
Goldman gave us charm, irony, inevitability. He didn't explode the

643
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:28.599
genre of the way so much like like we talked

644
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:30.559
about it is the wild bunch, but he made he

645
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.599
made out alawst funny. He humanized them, you know, he

646
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.599
made him vulnerable. And one of the things you don't

647
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:41.000
see in westerns self aware, you know of oh this

648
00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:49.199
is dangerous. But that buddy dynamic, the contrasting personalities, that

649
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.159
the loyalty, you know, people love that, you know, that

650
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:56.880
loyalty of two characters. And if that that's worked for

651
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:01.559
so many films, I mean, Leaf Weapon, I feel that

652
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:05.760
you got a kind of George Coloni and Brad Pitton,

653
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.400
like The Ocean's film, they kind of have that kind

654
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:12.320
of thing. But structurally, I mean it still holds up,

655
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.800
you know, every every turn it grows out of the character.

656
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:21.880
That the ambition of the inciting incident, the exile at

657
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:27.480
the midpoint, inevitable ending. I mean, would this script cell today?

658
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:35.719
Probably not, because even Westerns that aren't like this, you know,

659
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:39.119
can't get made, but not in its exact form because

660
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:44.400
it's it's it's patient, it's it's very dialogue driven. In

661
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:49.800
westerns there it's it's usually not very much dialogue. Uh

662
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:54.239
so I think it's this. They has tone over the

663
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.920
spectacle of it. But you know, like we said in

664
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.960
our last so great scripts, they don't chase trying they

665
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.400
define them. Goldman didn't just write a western. He wrote

666
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:10.719
the western that quietly closed the door on the old westerns.

667
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.239
So we're going to get into a thing that I

668
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.360
did our last episode, and the thing I really like

669
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:20.239
to do a companion. Pick something that goes along with

670
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.880
this movie or film. It can be anything, a book,

671
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:28.760
a movie, another screenplay, an homage kind of film, so

672
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.840
many things, so many routes could have taken with this movie.

673
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:35.400
But my pick, I'm gonna pick the standard one, and

674
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:40.960
that's William Goldman's The Adventures in the Screen Trade. In this,

675
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.119
you got the full script for Butcher Sun Dance. You

676
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.639
can see all the cut twos. But what's great about

677
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:51.719
is that he critiques it. He will talk openly about

678
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:55.199
what works, what doesn't work, where he struggled, and what

679
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:00.880
he would change today. You know that he has that

680
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.480
great famous line about Hollywood nobody knows anything, you know.

681
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.239
He it's a it's a great book, it's got I mean,

682
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:10.679
he tells some great stories, but he's he's very critical

683
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:14.119
of himself, you know, so he knows the script's fun,

684
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:16.000
but it's it's it's a good read. If you really

685
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.199
like the book, I'm sorry. If you really like the movie,

686
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.199
you really like William Goldman, at least pick up one.

687
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.159
He has a couple books out, but this is kind

688
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:27.760
of his most famous adventure of the screen trade. Uh, Angela,

689
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:28.639
do you have a companion?

690
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:28.920
Pick?

691
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:39.280
Yes, so I would pick the Sting. It's that one

692
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:41.079
I have watched so.

693
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:44.960
Many times and definitely, uh that that is my my favorite.

694
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.719
Like Newman. I mean, I know they only did the two,

695
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.320
but but it feels like they did more, right, Yes,

696
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:52.119
yes it does.

697
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:53.960
I always have to remember I was like, wait a minute, Yeah,

698
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:56.280
they only did too So that's why I said it

699
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:56.559
that way.

700
00:40:56.679 --> 00:40:57.039
Forgive me.

701
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.159
Yeah, no, I feel like, yeah, like they have like

702
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:02.679
Matt Damon Ben Affleck thing happening.

703
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:07.360
Yes, but it was also the same director as Cassidy

704
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:10.760
of The Dance Kid and the Films were four years apart,

705
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:16.039
and even though setting why is it probably more like

706
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:18.960
forty forty five years apart. You could just kind of

707
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.719
watch Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid and then

708
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:24.480
just kind of imagine that they're frozen in time only

709
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:30.199
to reappear as two grifters at conment in Chicago, you know,

710
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:35.159
in the late thirties. But I absolutely I love that movie.

711
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.400
I probably watch it at least like once once a year.

712
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.960
I just I watched it the other night it was

713
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:43.119
on I think it was on Netflix actually, just to

714
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.639
kind of get that feel again, you know that buddy

715
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.159
you know thing. And funny enough, the movie I had

716
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:53.159
watched the day before is this Richard lank Letter film,

717
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.639
This new film that Ethan Hawks nominated for an oscar

718
00:41:55.719 --> 00:41:56.480
for Blue Moon.

719
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:57.039
Blue Moon.

720
00:41:57.079 --> 00:41:59.440
Okay, I've seen the trailer, but I've replace this guy,

721
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.559
Larry Art and the girl that he's trying to date,

722
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:04.920
Margaret Qualley.

723
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:10.920
Is is with a guy whose name is George roy Hill.

724
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:17.320
And so Larry Tait, who's Ethan Hawk's character, tells him

725
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.800
whatever film he was doing I think before was like

726
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:21.960
a love story. He goes forget love stories. He goes

727
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.119
forget romance. He goes, you should just focus your next

728
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:30.800
film's friendship friendship, because that movie The Blue Moo moves

729
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.400
about a friendship thing. But he's like, focus on friendship

730
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:35.800
and it's it's kind of a nice little easter egg.

731
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:37.599
But yeah, cool.

732
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:42.599
Well, and then I did have like a little something else,

733
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:45.000
so I wanted to kind of touch it because I

734
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:45.840
William Goldman.

735
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:47.639
I knew his name.

736
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:51.480
Mostly because of The Princess Bride on Obviously, if we

737
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:52.800
were to watch pus Cassie.

738
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.639
The Princess Bride, that would be one weird showing.

739
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:57.599
But but you know, I my grandfather introduced me to

740
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.320
that when I was a kid as well, and it's

741
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.599
been one of my absolute favorites. So it was it's

742
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:04.880
nice if you want to have a little bit of

743
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.400
a difference. You know, he not only wrote that novel

744
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.280
of you know, in a fantasy, but also on the screenplay.

745
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.800
But like when you were talking earlier about when he

746
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.400
did start pitching the.

747
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:19.119
Screenplay for Butch Cassidy and the Sanance Kid to studios

748
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.519
and they didn't really weren't sure how to market or

749
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.639
what genre Princess Bid was the same way they're like

750
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:26.960
we have no idea like.

751
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.800
How how it just you know, maybe.

752
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:34.199
A little bit more more difficult than Butch Cassidy. Maybe

753
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.519
I don't know, it's just a matter of opinion. But

754
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.519
but there's just funny that, you know, but that's just

755
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:42.119
you know, funny that he kind of ran into that,

756
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:46.039
you know, with a couple of his work and and

757
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:48.719
and showing you know what what range he had. And

758
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.320
then I know you had already shared a quote, but

759
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.000
the one I had found was because.

760
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.119
You were talking about how he's very.

761
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:59.159
Uh, you know, self critical of his work in the books,

762
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.519
and he says, paraphrase, and I don't like my writing.

763
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.800
I write a movie called Butch Casside and the Sundance Kid,

764
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:07.920
and I wrote a novel called The Princess Bride. And

765
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.519
those are the only two things I've ever written, not

766
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:12.679
that I'm proud of, but that I can look at

767
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:16.880
without humiliation. So if you wanted to do the viewing

768
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:19.519
based you know with that that you know that, hey,

769
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:23.400
he wrote these two things and he's not humiliated by them,

770
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.960
do it that way, or if you want to pretend

771
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.920
that Butch Cassie and the Sanance Kid frozen in time

772
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:33.760
and then reincarnate back up as a common in Chicago.

773
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:34.519
Didn't do the thing.

774
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:42.159
Yeah, yeah, I mean so many great screenplays. Uh. One

775
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:46.039
that is another great fun western that he did. Uh Maverick.

776
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:49.039
He wrote screenplay from Maverick. It kind of has that fun.

777
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:51.719
Oh, I totally overlooked it. Yeah, I totally didn't realize

778
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.239
that was part in the part of his list. Yeah,

779
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:55.960
the mel Gibson and James Gardner.

780
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:58.519
And yeah, it's kind of very it's a fun, fun

781
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:03.199
kind of own, you know, but you know, Misery. He

782
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:06.960
adapted that screenplay. Jeff and I did I think an

783
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.079
episode or yeah, it was Jeff that did an episode

784
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:12.360
of Marathon Man. He's his book that he adapted to

785
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:17.039
a screenplay. Scott and I talked about him on All

786
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:21.280
the President's Meant episode, So yeah, he gets when I

787
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:24.440
went to college and some of the film classes that

788
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.480
have taken my my instructor was a professor, was very

789
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.639
keen on making us know William Goldman, you know about

790
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:37.840
him and his his his work. So I'm I'm just

791
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.119
passing along the favor.

792
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:42.559
And I really appreciate being a part of this episode.

793
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:44.679
I get to learn, you know, quite a bit more

794
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:45.280
about him.

795
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:47.760
Thank you with that, you know, because like I said,

796
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.320
I kind of had him in my head.

797
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.039
A little bit limited to you know, the princess bribe.

798
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.079
It is also I just I never really had a

799
00:45:57.280 --> 00:46:00.280
you know, reason or an English I guess, just to

800
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.039
never be like, hey, what else has he done? I?

801
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:04.159
You know? So so I love like these you know,

802
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.280
these podcasts and these you know, topics are.

803
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.000
Getting that curiosity open and like, oh my goodness. I

804
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:14.880
didn't totally realized like, well, where have I been on

805
00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:15.199
a rock?

806
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:19.039
Well, you know, I and I do work for a living.

807
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.679
Stuff. Sometimes you're just watching something and you know, your

808
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:24.760
credits go by, and I think that's how it was

809
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:26.480
with like Misery. I was kind of just watching Misery

810
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:28.440
and it's just like, you know, obviously based on the

811
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:31.320
novel by Stephen King, screenplay by William Going. You're like,

812
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:34.760
huh right, how about that? No wonder? This movie kind

813
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:38.119
of really he's got a great rhythm to wait.

814
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:40.039
I was so silly, you know, when I was pulling up,

815
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:41.880
you know, doing my research on bush casting, I was like,

816
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:46.840
is that the same William Goldman. It's certainly I'm like like, well,

817
00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:48.679
you know, they can't really be registered with the same

818
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:51.159
name right, multiple people. So I'm like, is that really

819
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:53.199
the same world?

820
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:53.480
You know?

821
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.159
My mind completely, you know, blown wide open. So I

822
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:56.960
appreciate that.

823
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:03.519
Well, folks, that's It's a script by William Goldman. Butch

824
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:07.039
Cassidy in The Sundance Kit still remains one of the

825
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.800
rare screenplays that feels effortless. But hey, it's anything. But

826
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:14.840
you know, beneath that charm and banter is precision, and

827
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:18.360
beneath the humor is inevitability. Goldman just didn't write a western.

828
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.679
He wrote a western about the end of westerns story

829
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.239
where myth is preserved even as the world moves past it.

830
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:28.719
It's funny, it's romantic, it's discipline, and it reminds us

831
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:32.880
that great screenplays don't just entertain, they define their moment.

832
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:36.840
I want to thank my guest Angela Norris. Make sure

833
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.480
you check out her atypical reviews my saying that correctly

834
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:45.280
on a Film by website. I believe you are going

835
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:48.519
to be doing The Bride next, the Maggie Gillen Hall film.

836
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.480
Yep, that will be next, and then soon here just

837
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:57.079
look out for the latest version of Whether in Heights

838
00:47:57.800 --> 00:47:59.079
should be posted this week.

839
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:03.559
All right. Well, that is a fade out on Butch

840
00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:08.000
casting a Sundeck's Kid. Next time we leave the Outlaws

841
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:11.679
behind and head to a dying Texas town, we'll open

842
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:14.199
the pages of The Last Picture Show, written by Peter

843
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:18.039
mcdonovich and Larry McMurtry based on his novel, A script

844
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:22.360
that strips away myth entirely and replaces it with loneliness, memory,

845
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.360
and the quiet ache of change. If Wich Cassidy is

846
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:27.559
about the end of the West Legend, the Last Picture

847
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:29.880
Show is about what's left when the legend is gone.

848
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:33.320
That's next on a script buy and make sure you

849
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.320
keep up with a film Buy with new episodes dropping

850
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.400
every Monday. In the continuing popular Star Trek series Phaser

851
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.840
set to stun every Wednesday. A film Buy is starting

852
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.639
off March with Meryl Streep and Nicole Kimman. Month with

853
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:53.239
The Devilware's Praduct featuring Angela herself. Please join us on

854
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.400
social media. You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook,

855
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:01.280
and x Don't forget to visit the in a Film

856
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:07.079
By Podcast website at wwwafilm by podcast dot com. Email

857
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.320
us at a Film By Podcast at gmail dot com.

858
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:14.599
We love interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking your requests

859
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:18.320
for future episodes, and debating great movies that will do

860
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:20.440
it for a script by see you next time.