Guillermo del Toro - Frankenstein: Part One of Two

0:00 There are many classic novels and stories that have been turned into some amazing films over the years. Jane Orry, to Kill a Mockingbird, le Mens rob to just name a few. Any favorites that you ladies can think of that you have enjoyed. Being a huge Jane Austen and Bronte Fan Bronte, Yes, I get as a you know, a little bit darker and because I know Amber and I have had a little exchange about the weathering right, But definitely with Jane Austen, like Emma Thompson did a fantastic job with since Insensibility. That is definitely one of my favorites and recommendations, as well as the ninety five Pride and Prejudice series adapted by Andrew Davies. So those classics I definitely highly recommend.

0:51 I love the book Jane Eyre is one of my favorites, and I've yet to find a bad adaptation of it. I've seen them all. They're all really good. But I also love. Daphne du Maurier kind of like plagiarized it and wrote the book. Rebecca and Alfred Hitchcock did a great adaptation of that book. It is like no other version is as good as that movie. And I know you did an episode on Rebecca. Not too long ago here on a film by But yeah, that Hitchcock version is it just cannot be beat. It's so good.

1:32 It's a good one. Great pics, great picks. Well, today we are going to discuss one in particular, a classic story written by Mary Shelley in a film by Guillomo de Toro in his twenty twenty five soon to be classic film Frankenstein Birth is. Not an hour hand? Is it that sparked the animation? Thought and soul? That is a concept. But this now their life.

2:20 Hello everyone, and welcome back. I'm David Burns. Him Amber Lewis. Hi, I'm Angela Norris, and this is a film by podcast Amber Angela. I am beyond excited to discuss this masterpiece with the both of you. I knew once I saw this film a few weeks ago that we had to talk about it, and we had to do it soon. Amber. I know you were posting on Facebook right away that we had to somebody had to talk about this. You know, I have watched it so many times now and I got to tell you it just gets better and better mhm. Absolutely. There's always something new you either pick up on, you know, a ton of it, an element of you know, whether emotional, just to you know, observation and the production. I mean especially that, like you know, if you just watch it once, we're just kind of don't pay attention to the characters, just.

3:12 Focus on the scenery and the and the. Design everything, because it is a overall is it just a complete work of art. And I know you're you're the one that first pointed out it was a masterpiece, and it was before I hadn't even seen it yet, so I'm like I was like rolling mising, whatever Amber not a masterpiece, for crying out loud, we don't have. Then I watched it. By the time I got in it's like, well crap, Well. I you know, have done two different episodes on Gamma del Torre's work. We did one over on Docking Day on the film Mimic, and then we did one here on the film Devil's Backbone, and I just listeners that have heard those episodes. No, I cannot gush about him enough.

4:02 He is one of my favorite directors, and this is a passion project of his. He's wanted to do it for ever, and so the minute I heard that he was doing it, I was one hundred percent all in. And my only regret is that I did not make it to see it in the theater if they release it, like everybody needs to run and see it in the theater, because the scale of it and the production value is just out of this world. What it was only there for a week, wasn't it in the theater? It was very quick, sure, And I'm like when I. When I watched it, I was like, why did I not see this in the theater because it's just absolutely stunning and it needs to be seen on the biggest screen possible.

4:44 Yes, nice, but schedule and time all oud. Yeah, life, kids in the way, and I'm you know, I am not one to rush to the theater like you know, big huge epic things and anything by Christopher Nolan, I know has to be seen in the theater. Oh yeah, you know. We went to see The New Superman. That was like, of course, have to go to see that in the theater. But then other things like you know, the intimacy of it. It's fine on a TV, like, I don't mind, but I was so just blown away by the detail in this movie that you know every like Angel was saying, every time you watch it, you notice something different, and so just imagine the greater layers that you'll get into seeing it on a big screen.

5:34 Like, yeah, that's very, very true. I know typically we talk about these three facts in Trovia, but as you said, you know, we've already covered Del Toro with you and Jeff did with The Devil's Backbone, which is a great film by the way, if you've not seen the listeners, go check out that podcast and go check out that film because it's fantastic. But I did I did want to give a quote that del Tora had, because he's got a lot of them, but this one kind of made me giggle because because of who he is and his love, he says, if you're not operating on an instinctive level, you're not an artist. Reason over emotion is bullshit, absolute bullshit. We suffocate ourselves in rules. I find fantasy liberating and I love that quote. I love that quote so much from him, and to see his love just everything he's done, you can see his love get poured into it. So when we use the word masterpiece for Frankenstein, considering the work this guy has done that tells you what an amazing film Frankenstein is. So, but before we really continue on with that, just in case there is some crazy person out there who doesn't know the story of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein Abery, can you tell us a little bit about it please?

6:44 Certainly. The story goes that doctor Victor Frankenstein, a brilliant but egotistical scientist, brings a creature to life in a monstrous experiment that ultimately leads to the undoing of both the creator and his try creation. Intect with Just. Where did you say that description was from? That's just the one on IMDb. It's very nice, short, sweet to the point. So because I'm I'm o c D with certain things, he technically wasn't a doctor. He was just a scientist. He was actually a college dropout. He wasn't for a doctor. So because I had to be careful when I was, Everybody's like, he's not He's not really a doctor, you know, maybe in his own mad world. But just just for fy f y, I reference and.

7:35 Well and it's it's Frankenstein. Frank We'll get we'll get to that one. Yeah, I know, we're all going on our pick, that's for sure. Plus the obvious giveaway that he wasn't a doctor, I mean, the stitching skills, yeah, come on now, come on. Yeah, So just that little. You know, uh, Ember, you kind of mentioned a little bit about him loving the story. I mean, he says that he has loved the story of Frankenstein since he was like nine years old. Yeah, and this was like a pet project of his over the years, and it just never got to the point where he was ready to create it yet to bring it to the screen.

8:20 And what really pushed him over the edge apparently was making Pinocchio for Netflix, because if you think about it, Pinocchio Frankenston kind of go hand in hand a little bit just because of the you know, the creature in Pinocchio, both trying to find that they want to be human, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, as the Iron film, yeah, absolutely was. So the Iron was hot, and he decided, you know, to go ahead and do it, do it. And I'm sure Netflick was probably in the contract with Netflix, Hey I will do Pinocchio for you if you let me do Frankenstein. So well, and the smart thing that Netflix did was pretty much gave him carte blanche to do his movie. You know, he famously had huge struggles with the studio on Mimic and has never again been willing, you know, to compromise his vision and will only work with studios.

9:11 That will you know, support him in that. And so I think, you know, there's been a lot of arguing online about you know, is it a faithful adaptation and things that he changed and stuff like that, but you're not really going to see this to see and according to Hoyle Mary Shelley adaptation, you're going to see this to see a Gamma del Tora movie, and the fact that it's this labor of love. You know, he saw this movie, like you said, when he was nine and his grandma took him to see it, and it like it was like the you know, scales fell from his eyes, like it completely was one of those just life changing moments and has always stuck with him. And so I was just so excited when I read that he was finally getting to do it, and then to see the finished product is like, you know, like want to give.

10:00 Him a hug, like, good job. I'm sure he's walking on cloud nine now. As good as it turned out. There'sh Yeah, you can definitely tell this has been in his mind and his heart and his soul and his blood, you know, his whole life. And and uh, you know, like you're saying him being able to work with a studio of you know, hey, trusting his vision and you know, because while there have been several adaptations and you know, spin off kind of things, you know, for someone to really while there were changes, you know, as far as the character relationships with with one another from you know, the book, he didn't lose sight of the heart and soul and the themes and everything of this which which I really enjoyed. And you know, and I'm not such a stick with that. If you can, you know, make it your own reimagine, but not losing that core, that that soul of it all them up paired to you.

11:02 And like I said in my review, if there was one person definitely you know, to entrust bringing that to a new adaptation, it would be del Toro. Well. I the love that he shows for not just the original nineteen thirty one film, but for the source material itself. I mean, the only thing I regret about leaving Twitter is not getting to follow him on Twitter anymore because. I've been off there for over a year now. Yeah, he's such a marshmallow. And like when they were shooting this film, he went to Mary Shelley's home and like just left two roses on the doorstep. Oh wow, you know, and he used her handwriting as the font for the credits. I mean, just little things like that that you know he loves and respects her work. You know, it wasn't just the Boris Karlot film that got back to him, right.

12:00 And I really appreciate that. Sorry, Dave, didn't mean to, but since you brought up you know, del Toro, you know, really acknowledging Mary Shelley's work genius on her own, because I mean she did write this in about what eighteen eighteen, so obviously thinking of that time period and her being a woman. Because some funny when I did watch the nineteen thirty one Frankenstein and notice in the credits. Yeah, oh god, okay, you. Caught this too, that it's not the story by Mary Shelley, it's by missus Percy B. Shelley. And I literally put, I took my remote pause and I'm like, what the.

12:44 You know, what is that time period? Damn it, you know, and it's just like without this woman, and you know, and you know how the story came to be, and you know the friendships that she had, you know, like you know, Lord Byron and and and now you know her husband being supportive in this and then you know, basically kind of challenging each other to come up with an appropriate ghost story. But yeah, as soon as I saw that in nineteen there were on credit, I was like, I'm like, I just died a little. Understandably I would have too. It's just it's aggravating, it absolutely aggravating. Yeah, It's it's funny that you're hitting all on this because while doing my research, I came across an article that really hit home about this film. Now these are not my words, but are spot on about the film. The article reads, most of the previous Frankenstein films went after the horror aspect and truly missed what Mary Shelley meant in her book, and Dettorero captured it brilliantly.

13:43 Mary Shelley expert Julie Carson says that Total's take is more faithful than most, not in plot, but in spirit. It's a story still told through Victor in the creature's eyes, still bound by guilt, but now rooted in emotion rather than ambition. Victor's cruelty isn't just scientific obsession anymore. It's inherited trauma, a violent father, and need to prove worth, a cycle of shame that echo through every scene. Absolutely, and I think quite of you know that new uh you know, uh, that generational trauma you know that has been talked a lot a lot more you know, in recent years. I think that uh, including that and and and adding fuel to Victor's story. You know, while it's skewed from the book, I you know, I understand those changes, and it definitely helped support again the the root the heart of of those you know subjects, including you know, passing on you know trauma, not you know, sacrificing you know, a reality for you know, greatness, but not really having that long term sight of seeing consequences of our actions, are really properly thinking things room of you know what I could you know, uh to you know, to quote Jeff Goldblum, you know we could, but should we think you know it talks about the dinosaurs. Uh So, yeah, that that definitely should resonate with a lot of people,

15:17 and also just the general of you know, finding your place in the world, finding your purpose. Why am I here? Kindness without judging a book by its cover, and having the like this ideal expectations rather than just letting things come naturally and. To become who we need to be. And helping each other, you know, you know, figure that out, be accept wanting to belong you know all those points. No, absolutely, and that's what's well said. I mean, you know, we we know he made changes for this, but it's in my opinion, it's it's del Toro being as brilliant as it is. And I'm gonna use brilliant because it's brilliant. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean the I mean calling them changes, I don't even want to call them changes because it feels like it's down plane or making it as if it's less than you know, personal source.

16:08 But but you know. Well, the word adaptation is very appropriate. You know, it's not a faithful retelling. It is an adaptation of the story that you already know. And you know, like you said, when I started, you know, Day challenged us to pick the other versions that we liked, and so I was looking like, okay, well, I need to look at because I know I'm forgetting some you know, so I like googled, you know, all the Frankenstein movies. And there's like hundreds of that. I mean so many, and even if you kind of branch off to ones that don't necessarily fit, but they kind of are the same kind of story. And so when you look at that, like, why would you just tell the same story again again again without making it your own sensibility?

17:04 And you know, I think we all knew when going in that. If you've ever seen any other del Tora movie, you know that the monster is going to be hugely empathetic character in this, or should say, the creature. But at any rate, I always forget because I'm always so captivated by del Toro's female characters and the creatures, the fairy tale beings. You know that he puts in his films that are supposed to be scary but not, or supposed to be a villain but aren't, And I always forget that he has absolutely diabolical villains.

17:46 And so when Victor, you know he kind of. Is leaning that way anyway from the very beginning, but when he finally makes that turn and goes full villain. Mode, Like I had to stop the movie. I was so. Upset the first time I saw it, I was like, this freaking guy, Oh my god, you're the worst, you know, And I just had to pause and take a minute because it was so upsetting. And then, you know, my I was watching it with Liam and he looked at me and he was like, we just watched Penn's Labyrinth like three days ago. Why are you surprised Victor turned out to be like the worst human imaginable.

18:29 It's true, he did, yes, and then with you, you know, bringing up you know how he loves his monsters and being empathetic. What I really liked about his presentation of the creature, and actually I kind of found it cool that he talked about it. Del Toro said, what I wanted was for the creature to be a newborn, something pristine, something beautiful, because if Victor has been thinking about it for decades since he was a kid, he's going to create a work of art and not an accident victim or somebody coming out of the ICU looking at you, brun as Frankenstein monster. He needed to look beautiful, like a baby, like a sort of essence of a human being.

19:11 You have to start with nothing and then evolve into a full human being who for the first time at the end of the movie, makes his own decision. So I really liked that that was his you know, approach, that he wasn't out to This wasn't intended to. Be a monster, you know. And you can even see that too with the makeup and you know, the cost and just how you know, and I know we'll get to you know, the performances and stuff, but you know, how the creature was embodied. But I really loved that presentation and that visual and. That's what he had had said about that, because that was. One of the first things I noticed was you know, what he was made what the creatures made of?

19:57 Yes, well, and the people that he interacts with that are truly empathetic souls. Their first reaction is that, like, maybe he was a soldier that was injured or something. Like Elizabeth, the first thing she says to him is who hurt you? You know, and even you know, the blind man was just assumed that, like he was a soldier that had been wounded and like didn't have his memory and stuff like that. So the empathy and the kindness that they lead with in contrast to Victor's contempt is just it's so stark and so brutal. It's just just amazing.

20:40 It is. It's funny that we talked earlier about how watching this movie, you know, over and over it just gets better and better. This movie is like an onion. You peel away one layer, you find something new. You peel it another layer and you find something different. It's crazy on how layered this film is. By del Toro. One of the things I found interesting is if you watch closely as the movie goes along, the creature starts walking more upright like a man, huh, whereas Victor starts stooped over like a beast to show you who the real monster is. I mean, that's brilliant contrast. Yes, and all those little details like shout out to all of those people.

21:21 On social media that are have sharper. Eyes than mine that pointed things out that I may have missed because little details like on the back of Elizabeth stresses it looks like a spine. Yes, okay, And you know, if you watch on Netflix, they have I don't know if you guys watched it, they have a making of documentary that is just amazing, and they go through every detail, They go through the costumes and the makeup and the you know, sets and everything, and like her the patterns on her clothes were made of you know, like butterflies and blood cells and just all these little details that just make everything, you know, to David's point, so much richer.

22:11 And did you notice in that documentary, del Toro had to approve every single thing. He started in makeup and special effects, and so he knows how to do every job that he hires you to do. So I love that he hires these true artisans to help realize his vision. And you know, he said other people, other directors will put their office like by production and accounting. He's like, I put my office in the art department. And you know, and I love in the documentary as well, like it shows you know, him getting the scenes ready.

22:52 He's got like his hands in there, like he's manipulating the dummy for the creature, you know, and stuff like that. Like he you know, is puts his blood, sweat and tears in like every single molecule of his films. And it's just amazing. You literally can say he is a hands on director. I mean and why wouldn't you want your office being right next to the art department. I mean all that energy and that that that in the air and just feeding off of each other. Why would you want to be in next to in the account or you know something dull you. Know well, and the way he gets them all to work together because things that the costumer did informed the set decoration and the lighting choices and the color palette and vice versa, you know, which just makes energy.

23:47 And yes, yes, everybody feeds off Del Toro's energy. Everybody does. And that's why it turns out so well is because of that. He's got that love, that passion that just goes into everybody that's around you. And it only makes them better at their own particular craft too, you know, with that, so you know, even though they have, you know, their amazing talent you know, on their own and then being you know, pushed to that next level by someone at the helm like Del Toro. Mean, who wouldn't want that kind of direction and feedback and hands on and be like dude, because you're just gonna make me better at you know, my contribution to this you know huge you know production.

24:28 So heck, yeah, what do you let. Me know what can I do? You know what it means really push to that level and challenging. So I mean that, and you know we'll see those people progress and other types of you know, films and so forth, you know, because of them being under the guidance of him. When I saw it when on a writer just did an interview talking about her career and she was talking about working with Tim Burton, and she said that he's one of the few directors that doesn't direct from video village. He is like right next to the camera in your face, like directing you every second, like you are in the moment together. And Garama does the same thing, like he is right there, you know, guiding them through. And so you get these amazing performances you know that you know are so gently guided, and you know it's a collaboration that just you know, not a lot of productions have.

25:26 They don't. And that's why he wants control over everything, because he doesn't want the studio to say anything. And I'm one hundred percent behind him on that for sure. Well, I tell you what, let's go ahead and take our break and we come back. We'll start talking about this cast. We have a lot to talk about. So we will be right back. Welcome back, everybody where. We are continuing our discussion of Guielmrlo de Toro's Frankenstein with Amber and Angela. So, ladies, let's talk about this brilliant cast. And again, I want to keep using the word brilliant because everywhere you look in this film, it just is everywhere. So let's start off with the man himself, Victor Frankenstein. I saw Oscar Isaac, so I know he was the only choice for Del Toro.

26:10 He didn't want anybody else. He went right for Oscar Isaac. And I know Oscar has done quite a few things over the years, but I gotta tell you, without question, this is his best performance. Yes, yes, yes, I mean we can argue later about the fact that Sinners is still the best movie of the year. And I wanted to win all. Of the things, but I would not be sad if Oscar Isaac won and all the awards for this performance, because my god, yeah, he is amazing and I hate him so much in this movie, like I love him as an actor, but oh my god, by the end of the movie, you're just like, well, somebody please shift this guy and put us all out of our misery because he's the worst.

26:59 He is, and he plays it so well. That tells you an actor does a great job when you hate them so much. Yep. Absolutely, Because at forre, you know, you're kind of supporting, like, Okay, this guy's got this dream is ambition. You know, he's obviously still. Hurt, you know, the trauma losing you know, his mother and you know in this case, you know, and then blame, you know, blaming you know, the father who was an actual doctor and uh and but you know, unfortunately along the way he's still in that grieving trauma process, still skipped several levels of emotional growth and uh, you know really you know, human connection. And so bringing it back around where you know, Oscar has all you know, this trauma and and you know, obsession to to you know, work through and then like you said, seeing how at first you're you're kind of rooting for him, and then you're seeing all these things that he's really overlooking and missing.

27:58 And then especially when the creature comes into and it just is just a oh, it is a steep downhill from there until you're like, oh my god, in it. But I love how he gives you hints of it in the beginning, because when he's in that tribunal scene, that scene is very upsetting to me because he already shows the contempt for life when he reanimates that corpse. And the scene and you don't know. Like what consciousness this thing has, you know, and he just plugs it in, makes it do a trick, and then just brutally unplugs it and it sort of gasps as it, you know, kind of dies again, so to speak.

28:42 And he doesn't he's not even really looking at it, like he's not even it's like he turned on a machine or something that is without feeling, and just the absolute contempt for you know, whatever it is now it's it was a human. Yeah. Even his line but please always works when he says please, yeah, he either. Snaps his fingers or he taps the table or something like really condescending like that, and it's just so just horrific to me, Like, I don't, I don't know. That just got to me. That scene really bugs me. That was hard to watch. And then you're like, who raised you?

29:24 Well? I mean, yes, he wasn't doing good from the get go, speaking of a guy who you just immediately hate as soon as he appears on the screen. His voice even like, oh, everything about him is such a smarmy. Yes, sure, absolutely, the guy is. So yeah, he is just a trail of red flags. But I just can't get over how, you know, other Frankenstein's because there's so much violence in the second act, you don't really focus on how broken or evil or misguided or you know, morally defunct they are. Where this is just it's like all on Oscar, Like it's all you.

30:17 There's no getting out of it, there's no excuses, there's no you know, this is the evil that you are. And to just play that despicable villain, I mean, it's just. And he just goes deep and but with trying to you know, garter favor from the audience of but you know, it's for science and figure things out, and it's. You know, an ode to his you know mother, and you know, you're. Just like, so is it though, Yeah, I'm like that's some sure blame the woman for you, you're crazy. Yeah, if anybody needs fix, did you well?

31:00 And like the one in the story, kind of the redeeming through line is that he and Elizabeth originally are fiance's and really do love each other. And that's like his. One kind of redeeming thing is that he really does love this other person. So he does have some kindness and some goodness in him somewhere. We're here, it's just gross and creepy. Because he's a ball on his brother's girl. And yeah, like it's just gross, like. Like dude, man. And I love that she. Does not even fall for it for even like a marrill a second, Like she calls him out on his bullshit the moment she meets him, and I just think that is.

31:42 Like Chef's case and again on her wedding day. Yes, you capable of not telling the lie, you know? Yeah? Mia Goth was awesome as Elizabeth. I have never seen her in anything, have you. Well, she's done horror films. I recognize her from X. That's where I first saw her was the movie X. She was also win. Did you ever see the movie Everest? Yeah? She played Meg Weathers in Everest. Oh yeah, But she's not been in a ton of stuff. But she's just now starting to get a name for herself because of the horror films like X and Maxine and stuff like that. In Pearl, so she started to make a name for herself.

32:22 But I thought she was brilliant as Elizabeth. She was intelligent, she was she was not fooled by anybody. She wasn't gonna fall for for for a Victor at all. So I love the way she played that. And her humanity is so beautiful. That scene where she first meets the creature and you know, she puts her his hand on her throat to teach him how to talk like and then the whole thing with the leaves, the leaf Oh my god, just to see someone just exude such kindness and empathy is it's really hard to play without looking like you're just the saint that's perfect and unflawed human. And she comes off as very real but interested in the natural world in a way that Victor just has no capacity for.

33:16 Or she was teaching him like a kid. You know, we'll go back to what you were talking about. He was a newborn that, you know, del Torah wanted. I just her line when she goes is this for me? You know? I I love that so much because it showed that that love, that innocent she had for this creature in front of her. She didn't see it as a monster or anything. Like that she saw of somebody who's new and just learning things in life, and she was respecting the things that she was he was doing for her, and she was returning that to him. I love that scene so much well. And the patience that she shows. You know, Victor tried for like thirty point two seconds, yes the creature anything, you know, and then lacked him in the basement, like he just had no concept of how humans evolve and grow and no patience whatsoever for discovery, you know, kind of going back to what Angela was saying about Jurassic Park, Like, you know, Jeff Goblum has another great line where he says, you stood on the shoulders of geniuses and you took the next step, like you didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, and neither did Victor. Like he it wasn't like he studied life. He studied the bits that make life that were meaningless to him.

34:35 They were just tools, yep, Like where's your curiosity? You know, that sense of wonder that really desire, you know, to learn? You just wanted basically. Shortcuts and you know, how how can I get to this? Just to accomplish it for the sake of accomplishing it or you know, proven daddy wrong, proven, you know, the actual academic, you know, peers wrong, so forth. But yeah, you've got this basically this kid and a diaper chained to stone in a wet, dirty, damp basement. Because what Victor fears for his life. Well and doesn't even give him like the basic comfort.

35:16 He's not allowed clothes, nothing, he's not allowed warmth, he's not like no, he didn't even put him in like a comfortable person. Sell. He just chained him to the wall, like the hell yeah. And like you said, Amber giving him all thirty point two seconds. I was like, Okay, First of all, he after the initial electrical shock into the creature, he gives it like two point six seconds before it didn't work. I'm a failure. Oh here we go yep. And then and then, like you said, and there's that those little inner the scenes of you know, the interactions, which you know, I kind of even haven't watch it a couple of times, I still got to kind of struggle to remember because he just was frustrated with him for only saying his name while like you know, shaving his head, and I'm like, where are the books where?

36:12 First of all this guy still doesn't have you haven't given him a shirt? Well, and I have a theory about the name thing that I just got when I watched it again today because it just broke my heart. He keeps saying the name because the first victor that he met that he connects that name to is the victor that woke up and was excited, showed him the sunlight, showed him his hand, was kind and gentle and excited to see him. And I think he's constantly crying out for where is that person? Where is the victor that I first met? Where is the one that was happy to see me?

36:53 That was like a very good tender moment that you know, lasted five point three seconds. Yeah, that's all. We're quantifying everything we are. How about Victory going back to what his dad did to him by smacking his face but for not learning something to the creature? Yes, like you know, yeah, because face is vanity, but he didn't want to hurt his hands because that's what. He would be using to create. But yeah, I'm like, dude, do you need to own some more mirrors and for some literal reflect reflection and but yeah, that all that that, Yeah, that that bothered me. I felt that slapped to the face that and just no, like he said, no, no, patience, No, where's that wonder where?

37:41 And like you know, I mentioned. In my review, like he just expected him to just you know what, get upright, start tap dancing and start you know, reciting Shakespeare and you know he equals zmc squared, which hadn't been known yet, but you know for the partment, you know, all all this knowledge and stuff and and again, but from not really going through the appropriate learning process, even as an emotional being as well as a student. It's like he just completely was. Like, no, I don't want to do you know, the fundamentals of this what do you what do you mean? I'm supposed to be a dad and a teacher and a mental you know. It was like so it was pretty very much at that point of Maria knew, you know, but after that, I'm like, oh my god, I want you to suffer such dire consequences for your behavior to this creature.

38:36 Well, and he also he doesn't doesn't show any empathy for humans either, because I noticed again, like like you said, every time you. Watch it, you see something new. When Crystal Valtz gives. Him the reveal that he is ill and this is why he's funding this research, is that he is hoping to you know, be able to have a new body himself because he's dying. This horrific death. Like he's describing this horrible tortoise, horrific death that he's looking down the barrel at and Victor the whole time, if you watch Oscar, Isaac is not listening to him at all. He's like, look, he's nervous because the storm is beginning. He needs the electricity to reanimate the creature.

39:23 So he's kind of like, Okay, you know, it's all very sad. Can you shut up because I have to go during this machine. Like, oh, you're dying. Well, anyways, I gotta hoo for you. I got a lightning bolt to catch see you on the flip side. And along with the vein of just. Lack of acknowledgement and since you brought it up, I'll bring it up. But the end where Elizabeth is shot, when Victor is aiming for the creature but it gets it's just like it. Doesn't even don't know, I didn't do that. The guy and the yeah, yeah it was his fault, you know, his fault because you know she was trying to protect him, so it's it's his fault.

40:11 So he blamed the creature for Christoph Walstein. Ye. And then and then you know when he's walking by her, now that you know, body on the on the rock, and he's no his goal just like that catching that lightning bolt. No, I just got to catch his creature. I whatever, Like it was just a dead squirrel line on the road, which I still get upset and right when I drive by, so I'm not you know, knocking down or you know, lessening the death of the squirrel. But it was just that same attitude of and then like no, I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, you have like no redemption arc. He doesn't. He really cares about himself. Yeah, I mean even at that point, it was just no accountability, no response, Like still, no, maybe I did do something wrong, but not in the way he assumed he'd it wrong by you know, create an abomination, which I do have a little side rant for later. I'll hold off, you know, not to not to take over anything.

41:08 But that ship has sailed, that's already gone. And what you're talking about. Control of this conversation. We let him think he was a control like right for the and then I was like, yeah. You're. Well, I do want to talk about another person who deserves an Oscar, and that is Jacob Lordy. Yes, replace the creature because he takes the creature to a whole new level. He is a master. And as you both ladies, you know, acting with your eyes is something that you're taught to do and you know to perform, and he does such an incredible job of facial expressions, his eye movements, everything that it just shows you the innocence, the anger, the fear, the heartbreak, everything, every emotion you can think of.

42:06 You can see it in his face when he's supposed to do it. And the casting of this guy was perfect. Well, no, he wasn't original, He wasn't the original person who was supposed to play that. But thank god it did work its way out because this guy deserves an Oscar for this damn role. Well, and not only that, but through full body prosthetic. Yes, like ten hours, wasn't it. Yeah, he would start at two in the morning, get done it like two in the afternoon, and then you know, be able to do his scenes and to be able to have that kind of expression, you know, when you're under just all these layers to use that to inform your performance rather than hinder. It is a singular.

42:56 Talent, agreed. And I could imagic sitting in that chair that long. I could not. What would you do? I mean you're just literally playing on your phone. I guess, yeah, I mean. Just watch movies on your iPad. And yeah, some actors have said that like they doze off. I could see that like other actors that have. Gone through it, you know, for like superhero movies and stuff. Yeah, like it would be a super exercise and you know, like you're breathing and you know, because I'm sorry, I have like a really big personal space bubble I have, Like these people painting all over your body just sounds torturous, you know, and the stuff's not comfortable. I mean that those for sex are hot and itchy and all sorts.

43:42 But you know, Germo said in his in that documentary, and I kind of wish. I get on hear it because it's so sad. But he told Jacob to kind of evoke like being like a dog with that innocent, you know, kind of love and wanting to be in your presence. But then being, especially with the blind man being willing to viciously defend if necessary, but then immediately goes back to being loving as the old man was dying. But that just makes it sad or I don't know it. Does he said, he he used his own dog, like you know, watching her and things like that, and then something else. I did look up when because like you said, he wasn't the original and I.

44:34 Love Andrew Garfield, but there is no. Doing this at all. So what he backed out apparently due to scheduling conflicts and only left Jacob four weeks to prepare for it. And apparently, and like you said, since del Toro and his team, you know, they had started with like the makeup and the costume, the with the prosthetics and stuff, they had already basically had all the stuff fit. And ready for Garfield. So then they got how to get on or the gone of redoing all of that, you know, based on Jacob's build. And so that was just another headbit. But you know, like you said, with del To's quote at the beginning, like he kind of looks at those things, is like you know what, it's like a zen thing, like it was meant to be this is where the movie is leading me.

45:24 I just need to follow that path. And that's such a healthy attitude because I got the stress, like there's a lot of money and a lot of work put into this stuff. It all happens for a reason. And yes, yes, this one worked out for Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of the blind Man, that was played by David Bradley, who did a great job. If you haven't seen. Broad Church, yes I would. You would be completely. Shocked because he always plays the worst, like he's always such a horrible person, but in broad Church he plays such a beautiful, empathetic, loving man that has just the most tragic storyline.

46:05 Yeah. So you if you saw that, you knew he had it in him. And I was so happy to see him in that role. He was perfect. And that scene was tough for you, Angel, I know with the wolves, was it not it? I just kept going, it's c g, I, It's yeah, they're not real puppies. It's okay. I did. I did have to kind of close my eyes, especially when he was coming into to check on the blind Man after they had already you know, gotten to him, and I kind of knew. I was like, oh god, oh god, I could you know, hear the sound. I did have to cover myse even though I'm like, I know it's fake. I know, I know he's doing it as you know, a defensive hit. You know everything I stand, but it's yeah, it was.

46:47 It was still tough, but I got through it. Yep. I do want to call out the young Victor Frankenstein. You guys know who that is. Christian Covraiary. He played Gus and Sweet Tooth. Okay, yeah, and he's also in Cocaine Bear. If you've not seen Cocaine Bear, well, Sweet Truth is fantastic amber you need to watch it, Okay, absolutely, and he plays Gust, the main character. Okay, so you'll definitely about that. Yes, I do as you guys. As you ladies know, I love to talk about the cinematography. The cinematographer themselves. Dan Lastin is the guy who did this. He has done some other things, obviously with Del Toro.

47:27 He did The Shape of Water. He did Crimson Peak not may Ali, and he did Mimic as well. He's also done a few of the John Wick films. He's done The Leave, Extraordinary, Gentleman, Darkness Falls, and I don't know if the one if you've seen this foreign film called Brotherhood of the Wolf Angela. I know you have not because it's a horror film, but it is very, very good. But anyway, I have, but I don't mind have. It's an older film. Yeah, so it's been around, it's been around a while. But just this guy's work in this film. I know a lot of this is storyboarded by Delta Horro, but it still takes a very talented camera guy to pull all of that off because they are in charge of the lighting. And the lighting in this film is absolutely beautiful. But one of the things that I noticed in watching this so many times that camera just glides, it floats like it's not even like almost like not camera normal camera movements. It's crazy. It's almost like you're in a dream. You're there experiencing what's going on in them scenes with that camera work. And if you've scenes the behind the scenes stuff that you talked about Amber, did you see how they were able to take away take apart some of the sets.

48:38 Yes, came again you know, the marriage of these different departments working together. They had these flying walls that you're really in this set. You know, people think that there's so much CGI in this movie. There's really not that much. Yeah, these are all practical sets, and they had these flying walls that they could move out of the way so the camera could come in on a crane, and you know, all this really intricate, interesting problem solving techniques to enable that cinematographer to do what he did so well, and it's just it's amazing, amazing.

49:22 I mean, there's there's so many things about this that you could just tell. These people all deserve awards. I mean, the cinematographer, but the costly. Raises it to an absolute art form. It does just you know, movie making can be very you know, popcorn mass produced, you know, but this is actual art. This is art getting to look at on all these different levels. You know, everybody is at the top of their. Game creating this unique world that we just are immersed in. Did you I know you caught this with watching the documentary, but you the use of red was just for Victor's mom, and that's why Victor has read on him is representation of his mother. I thought that was so well done and I don't know if I would have caught that, I probably would have on his hands. Yes, his gloves are red yep, yep. And then at the funeral when he was walking away, he had the red scarf on around him. But yeah, his hands had the red. And if you notice, Elizabeth had some red. She had the red umbrella, she had the red necklace, so she had a little bit of that going on too. And I think it was almost telling us he's kind of thinking of her as that way. I know that sounds weird, but you know, I mean it kind of did. Why also, would he use the red in those scenes.

50:40 He's clearly got mommy issues if he's chugging milk all the time. Yes, he does good grief. But and also it's kind of foreshadowing for her too, because she's going to have this tragic fate, you know, and so you get these little flashes of, you know, the danger that she's altimate going to be in. And I saw the costumer talking about the lengths they had to go to on her wedding dress to make these layers so that the blood would bleed in like this certain way, like my god. You know, creative. I don't know if I want to say that was beautiful because she's bleeding, but it was beautiful.

51:22 It's beautiful Yeah, it. Really was him carrying her out like that. And did the red is just coming down the white dress. It's like, holy crap, that is amazing. Yes, it's like a painting like it is. Yes, almost every seat was like a painting for crying out loud. Even the opening shot when the camera opens up in the north and you see the you know they're stuck in the ice and that camera just slowly glides in the blue uniforms with the white background with the snow, My god, that was stunning. Well. And then when they get to the laboratory and you get this great outside wide shot of like the sun setting with the tower on the right and then the birds flying out like it's so gothic and so like that was like a little wink to the thirty one version.

52:12 I feel like, oh, it has to be yeah. And then did anybody. Else feel like when they went into the building into the laboratory, when they first go in the entrance, that is one hundred percent the house from Crimson Peak. Oh it has to be at least yeah. Yep. And the shot of Elizabeth coming down the steps with the candles come on, that was nineteen thirty one. Yes, totally yes, that was in. Her nightgown and everything. It was very haunted mansion. I loved it absolutely. That was great. I feel like we're talking over angel Angela, you gone quiet now. It's a good it's a good problem to have to have three people so enthusiastic about the film that like none of us can shut up. Yeah, well, just to go back on, you know, when you guys are talking about the Red that you know, it's a good representation that it connects him to his mom, whom you know, where he loved very much and and wanted to do this, you know, became obsessed because of her death. And then you have you know, the Elizabeth who's you know now kind of become other obsession.

53:18 It is too strong of a word. But the other female in his sights that you know, he's you know that you know was engaged to his his. Younger brother, and. You know, so those those two females have a connection to him even though he's you know, is lacking all things that one needs to have for a proper, you know, proper connections. So it makes sense that they use the Red with that. And I love that Del Toro said, no, I want color, I don't want to know black top hats. I don't want to Kinsey, and I love the Victoria, I love the Charles Dick and stuff. But I totally get why he wanted to and it works so so well. You know that that that palette and that those colors and having that symbolism, which there's a lot of in this.

54:00 Did y'all get that that was Mia Goth playing both roles because I didn't get it until I ran afterwards. Yeah, Like I totally did not recognize her playing both roles at all. No, I didn't either until afterwards really, and then go back and watch it again, I'm like, oh, okay. Apparently she didn't know either until she showed up. Like, hey, by the way, it's funny that the movie I told you about, the horror movie x YEA, she plays two characters in that one she plays an old old woman and then she plays the young young girl. There're two different characters, but she plays both. So it's like, apparently, me a Goth is like just really good at that, so like, let's just use it. Okay, Yeah, I did see that. They did make some kind of a prosthetic for part of her face for the.

54:43 You know, her nose. Yeah, with that to give you know, a little bit of change. But yeah, I still was like, oh, I you know. I mean, it didn't change her face that much, but I just didn't. I was so lost in it that I didn't even realize it was the same person. Just because to tell you, you're so involved with a movie when you lose track of that kind of thing, because you're just absorbing everything and you're not realizing what's in front of you like that, you know. So that's that's perfect. That's just great storytelling, is what that is. Well, ladies, let's goad to take another break and we come back. Let's continue our discussion of the film itself, which we've already done. But hey, we'll be right back.

55:29 Silly short summary for Frankenstein twenty twenty five. At mid nineteenth century, mad scientists with daddy issues resurrects a creature made from a bunch of dead dudes, only to discard it shortly after for being dumb and disappointing. After becoming educated, the honky creature returns to its absentee father, request and a girlfriend, but as cock blocked and rejected again, Mayhem and sues in a murderous rage across the Arctic. All right, my mind, ange, love it, Okay,