Kevin Costner - Horizon: An American Saga Chapter 1

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I gotta tell you, I'm a
real Costner kick lately question for you,

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and I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
this caveat to begin with. Okay,

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you can't choose a Western or a
baseball movie. And with that in mind,

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do you have a favorite Kevin Costner
performance? Well, you took a

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lot of good films out of that, I took a y. I'm challenging

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you, man. You are so
he's got. He's got a lot of

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other good roles that are not a
Western or not a Baseball I always have

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to go with Frank Farmer from the
Bodyguard. Okay, Frank Farmer is a

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fantastic character. Great movie. Yes, yes, absolutely great movie. I'm

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curious, what's yours? If you
if you had asked me, this is

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one of those questions like my answer
is gonna rotate. But if you had

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asked me a couple of weeks ago, I'd say, I'd say Jim Garrison.

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K. Yeah, yeah, that's
a spectacular right. However, a

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couple of nights ago I watched Mister
Brooks, which I think is such an

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underrated film. It's it's an amazing
thriller. He is just dynamite in it.

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You know, William Hurt mm hm
is I. I can't take my

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eyes off him when he's on the
screen. And let's not yeah, and

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let's not forget Gimmi Moore. Yeah, she's incredible. This is man.

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Okay, I'm gonna say. I'm
gonna say mister Brooks because I have hope

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that maybe one day we'll we'll get
a we'll get a follow up film,

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another mister Brooks movie. We could
that's a good choice. We should talk

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about that movie sometime on a film
but I think, yeah, that'd be

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fun. Well, I'll tell you
what we're not gonna talk about today,

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but I think we should talk about
a film by Kevin Costner. And you

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know why I want to talk about
this one. So, uh, let's

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let Dave. This is something new
for us, but let's talk about his

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twenty twenty four critically underrated western Horizon
and American Saga Chapter one. Hello,

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everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm
David Burns, and this is a film

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by podcast Dave. You know,
let's just talk about it. Recently,

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they announced that Horizon in American Saga
Chapter two has been indefinitely delayed from its

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you know, August sixteenth release date. You and I were both excited for

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it. It's just it's it's It
had me in a foul mood when they

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when they announced this, Yeah,
I didn't know that had been announced yet.

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And then you reached out by a
message and told me that, and

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then I went and read it,
and yeah, it ruined my day.

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Did not mean they really wanted to
see that? Yeah, I know,

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it's it. Well, yeah,
it kind of put me on this Costner

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kick. I started going through his
whole catalog because it just bummed me out

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because I was so excited for for
the for the second chapter. Well yeah,

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but then you know, we thought
like, hey, you know,

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let's let's show some love to Costner. Let's let's show some support to this

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this amazing film. Let's let's let's
talk about it. Because we don't typically

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do this, No, we don't. You know, this is you know,

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if this is back to the box
office, We're we're maybe spending ten

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minutes just telling you what we what
we thought worked, and what didn't,

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whether you should go see it.
But we're we're going to dive in a

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little bit deeper on this one,
right and we'll be spoiler free, right,

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of course we will. Yeah,
I don't want to learn this for

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anybody who's not seen it. By
no means, I don't want to ruin

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it for anybody. And you know, here's the thing. It is currently

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today, It is playing in theaters
and it is available premium what do they

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call that? Premium video on demand? Yeah, you can. You can

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watch this at home. So I'll
tell you what before it should be.

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But before we get to that,
I do want to say a quick thing.

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Here. Our latest episode, our
latest nineteen ninety six episode, Primal

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Fear Amber. Amber took me to
court on this one, had a great

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time, great conversation. It is
exclusively available on Patreon and listeners. Did

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you know that you can sign up
for a free membership to our Patreon now

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because we have plenty of bonus content
and exclusive episodes, and some of which

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are now free, So you know, sign up. It costs you nothing.

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And if you decide you want full
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you can you can always upgrade.
But what do you wait to check

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out? Yeah? Do it?
Yeah, sign up free membership. If

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you're wondering, like, hey,
what happened to? What happened to?

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Primal Fair. It is there.
Go to patreon dot com slash a film

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by podcast sign up today, Dave. As we said, Horizon and American

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Saga is currently playing in theaters.
It's available to rent or buy on demand.

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So whether whether you watch it on
the big screen or from the comfort

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of your couch, you want to
let the listeners know what this film is

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all about. Absolutely I do.
While most of the country is being ravaged

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with civil war, many others are
making their way west to start new lives

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for themselves and their families in a
place called Horizon. However, the West

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is a rough place to try and
start a new life, especially in the

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territory of the Apache, who clearly
do not want anyone on their land.

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In chapter one of a four part
series, we see the beginnings of characters

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who are already in Horizon or are
making their way westward. We witness their

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struggles, their love, their loss, their pain, and through it all

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we watched as they do whatever it
takes to survive. In this film,

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we watched the America Saga unfold before
our eyes. This is such a beautiful

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film visually, and I know we'll
probably mention, we'll probably talk about the

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DP here in a minute. But
I'm just telling you, like I'm sitting

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in the theater, this is we
didn't you and I didn't see this one

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together, And I'm telling you,
sitting in this theater, I'm like,

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somewhere Dave Burns is watching this and
he is loving every frame of this picture.

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Your initial thoughts like, were you
just blown away by the first ten

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to fifteen thirty minutes of this thing? So yeah, I mean, I'm

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like Kevin Costner, I'm a huge
history buff, and I was smiling ear

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to ear as soon as the first
frame started, the first beat of the

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tone of John Debne's score, I
was already in tune with this film.

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And yeah, I mean, every
shot in this film is just done beautifully

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and pulls you right into what's going
on on screen. And this is something,

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in my opinion, should be seen
on the big screen because it's gigantic,

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not just that it's an epic in
stories size, but just because of

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the way it shot. See it
on the biggest screen available. If you're

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gonna watch this at home, If
you're watching this at home later to later

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tonight or this weekend, I hope
you have one of the biggest TVs on

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the market because this movie it just
demands it. I think it does.

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I know we said we're gonna be
spoiler free. Uh, you kind of

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alluded to this in your synopsis.
We got we got like, what four

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different stories there are that are kind
of that are kind of converging towards the

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end of the movie. Yep.
Were you surprised by the the lack of

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Kevin Costner in the beginning of the
movie. But is he in this movie?

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Right? I'm I'm I did hit
a point where I was like,

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holy shit, he's in the He's
in this one, right, Like I

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know there's four there's gonna be four
of them, but I know I saw

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him in the trailer, Like where
is he? Where is he? But

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you know what, Jeff and I
love that though it was it was one

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of those things it worked so well
because you're so involved with the story,

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you're so involved with the characters.
By the time he shows up, you're

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like, oh, there he is. But then you get really pulled into

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his character because at first you're like, well, of course Kevin Costra is

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gonna be the main character of this
entire film. No, he's not.

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No, he's not. No.
I don't think this ruins it for anything.

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I'm just talking about his performance.
But do you do you get the

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impression that he was he was kind
of channeling Clint Eatwood's Man with No Name.

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Oh yeah, for his for his
character, oh yeah, without question.

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He's got such a quiet, a
quiet cool about him that there's a

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mysteriousness about him. And you really
still don't get to know a lot about

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him. And again, this is
not ruining anything, because you know,

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we're not going to tell you who
he is or anything like that, but

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you still don't get a lot about
his character, right, You get a

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little bit tidbits here and there.
I'm sure they're saving it up for the

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other chapters. Of course, Well
maybe they are, maybe they're not.

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I would my hot take is I
would be content to not know a single

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detail about his background other than what
we find out, right. I just

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dig the fact that he's like this
mysterious guy who's who's heading to horizon,

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you know, like everybody else,
and he's fantastic. He is. He

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absolutely everybody's fantastic in this movie.
Everyone and all the stories are really well

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done. I saw some like rumors
from people, not rumors, people who

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were kind of complaining about the film, and I really want to set that

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a little bit straight. People were
complaining that it was really slow at times

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and there wasn't a lot of action. There is a lot of action in

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this movie, So don't get me
wrong when I say that there's some really

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good action in this movie. But
let's not forget. This is chapter one,

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okay. This is like picking up
a book and reading like a little

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portion of you know, the first
in a chapter or I don't know.

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It depends on how long the book
is, so let's say it's twenty chapters.

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This might be the first three chapters
of that of that book. Okay.

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So of course you're not gonna get
a lot because there's so many stories

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that are just intertwined throughout this but
they're so well done in my opinion,

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that you quickly want to know more
as soon as this switch is to the

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next story, because you and you
get involved into that one, and then

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you're thinking about the one before,
and then all of a sudden you go

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back to that one again. I
thought it was paced really well, that's

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my opinion. I think it was
paced. I think no, you're absolutely

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right, you don't pick up a
book. You know, you don't pick

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up a Stephen King book, read
two chapters and go eh, it's not

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that scary, right, No,
I'm not gonna finish it. You got

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to build up, right Yep.
And initially I saw, actually I saw

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this. I wasn't. I wasn't
completely davilous, our buddy def Dave,

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him and Jackson from the Apples and
Oranges podcast. Yep, they were in

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town for a concert, so we
got to check this one out. And

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initially I did tell that Dave.
I was like, you know, I

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don't know about the pacing on this
one. I feel like it was a

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little hard hard to follow. He
course corrected me immediately. He's like,

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no, there was nothing wrong with
his pacing of this. The editing's perfect

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and here's why. So shout out
to deaf Dave. I know he's listening

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to this one. Uh, Dave, good job job. Yeah, always

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always take a Dave to the theater
with you. Oh wait, I have

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a few. So, but I
think I think the pacing is great.

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You know, you're you're on the
money with that and the reason why it

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works, you know, like,
like you said that, there's some great

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action sequences in this. But this
is not an action film. This is

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this is a drama. It's a
western, it's a drama, whatever you

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want to call it. But you
have to remember it's also three hours long.

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If if if Kevin Costner tried to
cramp three hours of action down our

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throats, we'd be exhausted. We
wouldn't right, it wouldn't be as interesting

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either, and you wouldn't care.
You wouldn't care about the characters. I

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care about the characters because you know
the the action is intense, because I

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care about the characters exactly that we've
built up, the tension is built up,

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and I'm afraid for some of these
characters in some of these scenes that

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we you know, will we'll we'll
tiptoe around because I don't want to give

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them away. But right well,
I mean there's stuff that was in the

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trailer. We're not ruining anything because
trailer. You got to know some of

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those scenes. We just won't give
away any of the details of what happens

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in those scenes at the end.
But you know the one scene that Jeff

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when they were in the cabin and
then the apaches were attacking, you know,

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gosh, he that in the trailer. So that's not ruining anything that

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was intense. That entire scene,
that stuff takes a place around that cabin

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and in that cabin crap man,
uh huh yeah, And and Costler's nowhere,

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he's nowhere near to nowhere near to
be found. Right. No,

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I'm happy when his character Hayes Ellison, which, by the way, what

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a name. That's that's a cool
name. It is a cool name.

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And then he's playing that too,
is even better. Yeah, Hayes Ellison.

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I'm okay with him not being immediately
in the picture because the other stories,

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like you you talked about, and
the performances by these actors and actresses

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are just yep, they're they're compelling, Dave. There there are one hundred

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and one people in this cast.
That's a lot. So before this huge

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so before this becomes a film by
a podcast saga Chapter one, I'll tell

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you what. Let's let's well,
we're gonna do this a little more rapid

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fire than what we'd probably like to
do. But I got what we have

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to I got I got about ten
people here. I want to talk about

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it. If I miss someone,
though, you you correct me, you

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you know, you bring them up
but you know we've been talking about Kevin

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Costner. This woman Abby Lee,
who plays Marigold. She's the mysterious uh

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yeah character that's that's hooked up with
Hayes Ellison on his his section of the

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journey. Yep. I don't know
where she comes from because I have not

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seen her before. But I thought
this young this young woman was fantastic,

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so extremely talented actress. There's there's
no doubt about it. Her character just

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rubbed me wrong the wrong way.
It should really should, you know,

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because the things that happened in the
movie, that she does, that she

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says, and what she's trying to
get and how she treats people, just

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it rubs you wrong. But it's
the character and it should do that to

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you because you know, you want
to feel a little bit for Hayes when

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he gets introduced to her. But
then whatever, Hayes rolls with it,

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right, Yeah, he's just you
know, he's coming in down like a

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gun slinger. It's it's cool.
Uh. The Merritgold character, this is

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she she's one of those like saloon
girls, right, you know, she's

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you know, it's in the trailer. Yeah, I don't I don't know

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what the appropriate term would be that, you know, for for this time.

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You know, I won't use the
derogatory term that they use for But

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she's a She's a lady that you
can spend some time with for a certain

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amount of money. Right, I
don't know. I think she has she

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has her moments that I really enjoy. Her heart, what she's what she's

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willing to do for those around her. I'm being careful, as you can

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tell them. I know you are, and you should be. Don't give

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anything wait with that story, you
know. But she's also she also does

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some things where you're like, come
on, come on, Mary, that's

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what do you do? Better?
Be better? Yeah, But the actress

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Abby Lee, she's fantastic, doing
a fantastic job. I'll tell you who's

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doing a super fantastic job in this
uh our main villain Caleb Sykes played by

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Vecna Sorry, Jamie Campbell Bauer's from
Stranger Things, but ya this dude.

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If there's one thing you learned from
his performance in Horizon is that he does

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not need a bunch of a bunch
of makeup and latex to be scary and

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creepy. Because his character Caleb Sykes
is one for the books, you know,

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and again this is a scene that
we have to tiptoe around. But

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this, this is the scene that
that you don't talking about him and Hayes's

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introduction their meeting, when they get
their meeting, their meeting, that whole

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sequence was my favorite of the entire
film. Jeff, are we are we

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jumping to a pivotal moment? No, we don't have to. No,

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No, let's do this. Let's
let's we're gonna dive right in. Okay,

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you just you just fired your six
shooter at me with I guess,

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so all right, looks My pivotal
moment for this this movie is the meeting

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between Hayes and Caleb Sykes. Mine
too, because I don't know about you,

235
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but my fingers were gripping the arm
rest of the of the the seat,

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yep, because I just I was
like, I can't believe they're going

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head to head right now, right
here? What's about to happen? Well,

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you know, we don't want to
give it away, but non,

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but the dialogue there between the two
of them, holy crap, man,

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it was so well done, so
intense. Have you ever the banter?

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Have you ever seen banter between a
hero and a villain. No, not

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only written so well, but performed
so well. Yeah, and and and

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again. Part of that scenees in
the trailer, you know, yeah it

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is. He says, oh,
we got a bad man here, Oh

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we got a bad man. Yeah. Yeah, that scene is what we're

246
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talking about everyone. So when you
get to that scene, just prepare yourself

247
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because it is so well. Yeah, take your hand out of the popcorn

248
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bucket. Just you don't want to
You don't want to miss anything. You

249
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don't want to miss a single sound
or a single single moment. It's fantastic.

250
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Jamie Campbell Bauer. This guy he
can only go only you know,

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he's shooting for the strats Fairs.
As Farstone concerned, I'm already excited to

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see what he's got next. And
let's give the guy a break and he

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let him play a good guy.
Well, I mean before he becomes a

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tied cat. He's he's awesome as
a bad guy. But yeah, hey,

255
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give give the kid a chance.
Yeah. The the the whole psych

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family, Jeff, Yeah, there
themselves. They are a bunch of cycle

257
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paths. Yeah, this is like, uh, the family from the Hills

258
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have eyes if they weren't be but
still out there deranged on the on the

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uh out out there in the wilderness. Yeah, crazy group mm hm.

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I was surprised because again, there's
so many people in this film and the

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00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.160
trailer can only show you so much. But I was surprised to find Jenna

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alone in this movie. She's she's
playing Ellen Harvey. Yeah, and it

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almost didn't look like her. Like
I had a contentracts like, is that

264
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Jena Malone? It's you. You
look at her and you're like, she

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looks familiar. Then you then a
scene later you're like, I think that

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might be Jennam alone. And then
a scene or two later you're like,

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it sounds like Jenna alone, but
it can't be. But but it can't

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It is that Jenna alone? Yeah, Well, she's one of those actresses

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that, uh, she's a good
chameleon. Yeah. I think. I

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think when she takes a role,
she becomes that role. She she just

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disappears into the role. So you
don't you don't quickly see Jennam Malone.

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And I think that's a that's a
that's a movie like this needs that.

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It does, you know what a
very interesting story that she's involved in.

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Again, we're not gonna say anything, but what a very interesting story with

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them because when it when it first
starts, you're kind of like, what's

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what's going on here? You know, and then it starts unraveling. Then

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you realize what's going on. Yeah, credit to her performance. Like I

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said, we were like, is
that Jenna alone? You put anyone else?

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Like if you put like, let's
say you put Reese Witherspoon in this

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role, I think your brain is
immediately going to detach and go, hey,

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Reese Witherspoon's here. Oh yeah,
of course. And I'm not you

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know, and she's a phenomenal actress
you know herself. But I just feel

283
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like there's certain there's certain actresses and
actors that melted. They just they melt

284
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into their performance and then you're like, wow, and she you know all

285
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because all you see is Ellen Harvey
and what Ellen Harvey is trying to to

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do, you know, her motivation
for for what she does in the in

287
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the film. So all right,
she's fantastic. How about Uh, I'm

288
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.839
gonna need your help with this one. Uh the character name, but I'm

289
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:19.720
talking about Owen Crowshew. Oh,
Like this is another incredible actor. I'm

290
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:25.519
sure he's he's here because you know, we need you know, Kevin Costner

291
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.359
is not gonna gonna put the wrong
person in the in the in the role

292
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no way. We needed We need
to We need someone fierce, We need

293
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:36.880
someone that that can can plan Apache
warrior mm hmm. This guy wowed me

294
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every film screen. Every soon he
says on screen, I was like,

295
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WHOA, who is this guy?
Yeah? Love, you want to you

296
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.559
want to know who he is right
away because he is such a powerful actor.

297
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:52.200
He brings a presence on screen.
And that's exactly what Kevin Costler was

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00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.079
going for because he needed that presence, and man does he bring it.

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Yeah. Well this is the again. This is one of those performances where

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you're you're why someone like Owen crow
Shoe hm, you completely forget that Kevin

301
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.480
Costner is in the movie or supposed
to be in the movie, because we

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haven't seen him yet. And at
this point, my brain's telling me,

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00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.799
I don't care who is this guy
and just let's just keep the story going

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with him because when his when the
story cuts away from him, and that's

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00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.079
a that's a that's it. That's
the great thing about this film. But

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it's also for me at times frustrating. Think about this film. You get

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so just deep into one of these
these stories and then they cut to one

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00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.920
of the other territories because we're like, we're like four separate territories, four

309
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.000
separate stories, and you're like,
no, I want more. Ye at

310
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:42.119
least you're saying that until you get
wrapped up into the story that that that

311
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:48.039
Costner throws you into exactly. So
you know, I but but with with

312
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.920
but with this guy. Even when
I'm I'm like in the other territories,

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like whether I'm with Costner or I'm
with Luke Wilson or or Sam Worthington,

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I'm still wondering, like where there
is uh, where's a? What is

315
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:07.440
it? Uh? How you say
it again? Pians? Yeah, I'm

316
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.319
wondering where's ponce A? What is
he? What is he doing? Yeah?

317
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.720
And I'm excited to get back to
his story. I couldn't find much

318
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:18.319
about this guy. I don't know, well, he's a fairly new actor

319
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.880
on the scene. Is a fairly
new actor. Yeah, well, yeah,

320
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.640
you're not gonna forget a name like
that. No. Oh and crow

321
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.640
show that's you know, and he's
and I can't wait to see more from

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00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.680
him and I'm not talking just for
a horizon. I want to see him

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00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.759
more from him in other films too, because the dude is very talented.

324
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I'm salivating over what he's going to
do in chapter two. Oh yeah,

325
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.160
absolutely. However, you know,
like you said, he's another one like

326
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.480
like Abby Lee. M hm.
I can't wait to see what they got

327
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:51.000
coming up next. Moving right along, Dave Cianna Miller plays Francis Kittridge,

328
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:57.839
just the epitome of pioneer woman.
Yeah. I gotta tell you, I

329
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:03.039
really believe her in this role.
This is this is an actress who you

330
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:04.839
know, she's a gorgeous actress,
don't get me wrong, but a lot

331
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of her roles are like the I'm
the beautiful woman, right, even like

332
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.680
something like an action with like g
I Joe. You know, she's playing

333
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.880
the baroness, but she's still You're
like, wow, Hey, what's up

334
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.640
baroness? Uh? She is so
authentic though in this and I think that's

335
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.880
why she got the role. Or
not that's why she got the role because

336
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.519
he's a very talented actress got the
actress. But but she's got that look,

337
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.799
you're right, that just that fits
the part beautifully. And again she

338
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:38.759
melted until we just spoke about that
melting into the performance. Uh, I'll

339
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:44.000
be careful here, but you know, it's a it's a powerful performance.

340
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I love I love what she's you
know, uh, you know, single

341
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.720
mother trying to make it on the
on the frontier. I'm gonna I'm gonna

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00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:57.079
ask you the question, Uh,
do you feel she's justified in her decisions

343
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:00.759
towards the end of this film?
Is it? Is it too soon?

344
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.519
It's too soon? That's okay,
one of that's one of my problems because

345
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.759
when it happens, I'm kind of
like, really already. Well okay,

346
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:12.039
so I you know, for people
that want the spoilers, you know,

347
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:17.079
there's some reviews I read. I
read some reviews that people have given that

348
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:22.799
are like and I'll again everyone is
highly favorable of this film. But surprisingly

349
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:29.880
I read I read some uh some
reviews from female audience members who kind of

350
00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.359
questioned some of her choices, you
know, and agree with you like,

351
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.000
hey, a little too soon.
But one pointed out, like, hey,

352
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.799
this is the Old West. People
people dive old age tomorrow. Yeah,

353
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.119
people dive of old age of like
forty, so this is true.

354
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.599
Maybe maybe she's not too hasty in
her decisions, but the things that happened

355
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.480
to get her to the point where
she was at. You got to consider

356
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.359
your lifespan is not too long.
Party out there in the West, so

357
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.279
quickly. Yeah, I mean this
is this is like basically this is you

358
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:02.759
know, for a big chunk of
this movie is like you know, the

359
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:07.599
Oregon Trail. Yeah, the video
game, but as the movie, he

360
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:15.559
died of dysentery. Yeah, we're
not the Luke Wilson yet. But no,

361
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:21.759
Sianna Miller. Again, this is
Costner. He's he's doing something to

362
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:25.720
us where he is. He's putting
us really deep into these characters and the

363
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.000
relationships. And the second you are
like, oh he's got you right there

364
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.319
on the edge, you're so excited
about what's about to happen, he pulls

365
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.559
you right out of their story and
puts you back with Owen Crow or you

366
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:42.359
know, or general alone. But
Sanna Miller's story, she she spends a

367
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:47.519
lot of time on screen with Sam
Worthington, who I gotta say, it's

368
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.599
nice to see him back on the
big screen. I love watching Sam Worthington.

369
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.720
He needs to do more. Where
did he go? Well, okay,

370
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.400
so he he shows up what like
ten years ago in the Clash of

371
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.319
the Titans remake, you just assume, oh yeah, and then he's got

372
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:04.319
a Terminator movie, you know,
he's one of that. He's in the

373
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:10.480
was it the Fourth Terminator? Third
Term? Yeah, Fourth Terminator. So

374
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:15.400
you just assumed this guy's gonna be
an epic action hero and he kind of

375
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.920
he kind of just fades away.
He's kind of faded into like that that

376
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:25.759
direct to DVD world for a little
bit, and I don't understand that he's

377
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.880
he's playing first Lieutenant Trent and get
part here, and you know from the

378
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:32.559
minute, like like Costner, the
first time Costner shows up on screen,

379
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:36.440
you're like, I, obviously we
love him, but do we are we

380
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:40.440
supposed to like him? Great?
Do we trust him? Yeah? Right?

381
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:45.240
Is he your typical military lieutenant who
is just going to have the military

382
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:47.640
comes first, he doesn't care about
anybody else. Well, no, I'm

383
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.519
saying, I'm saying no, no, no, that's all you like you're

384
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.680
getting. Yeah, yeah, because
like Costner, like I I like him,

385
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.119
but I don't know if I trust
him. Wait, Sam Worthington,

386
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.319
the minute he's on screen, I
think I I I recognize him as our

387
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.240
true blue hero character. Absolutely,
this is the guy that will do things

388
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.920
the right way. He's gonna save
the day. He's the gentleman right well,

389
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:12.279
in the decisions that he makes in
the film, Yeah, you could

390
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.640
tell he's that type of character,
you know. Yeah, you can tell

391
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.920
he immediately cares about the people that
he's trying to assist. After you know,

392
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:22.519
what happens, and when they go
back to the fort, back to

393
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.720
the camp, it continues, even
what he does with his coat. Yeah.

394
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.640
Wow's that there tells you what kind
of character he is, you know.

395
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.119
Yeah, you're right. And then
and then the whole doctor thing,

396
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.759
the whole doctor scene again. Yeah, but I mean, come on,

397
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.880
man, Yeah, that that's That's
a great moment for for Sam Worthington's character

398
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:52.799
when he he uh he gets the
doctor involved. Yeah we'll just leave it

399
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.680
at that. Yep. Yeah,
fantastic moment for for his character. I

400
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.240
love and in the chemistry between him
and Sanna Miller, I'm in. I'm

401
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.160
all in, Oh, absolutely all
in. You know, send me an

402
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.440
invitation to the wedding. I believe
it. I wanted, you know,

403
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.400
I'm already I don't know what's gonna
happen to their characters in chapter two.

404
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.440
But I'm looking forward to it absolutely. Say let's uh, let's go back

405
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.200
to the Oregon Trail uh and try
not to die of dysentery. Luke Wilson

406
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.480
as Matthew Van Waden, he's kind
of like the trail boss, right,

407
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.519
yep, I did not Again,
I don't remember him in the trailer.

408
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.920
He probably was in the trailer.
I do remember him. I don't remember

409
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.319
Will Patten. Yeah, I mean
I didn't even have Will Patton on my

410
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.279
on my radar because Will Patten was, well, he's Will Patten. But

411
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:42.480
but but Luke Wilson, who we
we we know in love typically for his

412
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:48.839
his comedic chops mm hmm. Fantastic
seeing him as a a very dry,

413
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.720
no nonsense, serious role. I
don't I know he's done it. I

414
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:57.359
know he's done roles like you know, I know he's done some dramatic roles.

415
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:02.160
But it's just, you know,
remember him. Great to see him.

416
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:04.279
It's great to see him here.
And what I love about his character,

417
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.039
Jeff, is you get to see
that he's got he's a mixture of

418
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:14.039
an introvert and an extrovert. Okay, you see that in his character here

419
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.319
because he understands his role, he
knows what he has to do. He's

420
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:21.200
leading this wagon trail West, and
he's doing a really good job. But

421
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.759
he's very talented and good at it, you can tell. But then when

422
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:30.640
he has to discipline someone, oh
yeah, he completely becomes the introvert and

423
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:36.519
wants nothing to do with it,
no confrontation at all. Look, I

424
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.240
don't blame him. You saw the
size of that gout right, But I

425
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.119
but I appreciate the fact that he
does step up and he doesn't. He

426
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:45.680
doesn't. He's not a coward,
no, not at all. Right,

427
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:48.880
And you know, even when even
when he's challenged and they're like, you

428
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.480
know, what are you? You're
the boss now, and he's like,

429
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:53.119
well, god, yeah, God
damn it, I am, you know,

430
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.400
I kind of I'm kind of you
know, who else is going to

431
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.920
do it? So I love the
fact that it You you almost get the

432
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:04.759
impression that that his his responsibilities were
kind of thrust on thrust on him.

433
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:10.279
He wasn't. This wasn't his initial
you know, plan, This was not

434
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:15.319
his situation, and he's he kind
of inherited the responsibility, which which comes

435
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:21.319
with a lot of baggage obviously,
because even like you know, like the

436
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.720
young couple, you know who he
has to kind of put in line with

437
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.319
the water. Yeah, yeah,
that's It's it's interesting because like he is

438
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.039
very quick to discipline them and kind
of throw his weight around. You know,

439
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.000
when you're looking at that guy who's
like six seven, you know you're

440
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.279
gonna tell you're gonna be a little
more uh, cautious with your words.

441
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.880
But but he but the fact is
he doesn't back down. And I dig

442
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:51.319
that about Luke Wilson in this movie. Really good role. It's great to

443
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.039
see Michael Rooker in this Uh I
didn't know what, you know, I

444
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:56.240
didn't know what kind of role he
was going to give us. He's Sergeant

445
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:02.039
Major Thomas Reordan. He's kind of
like, uh, he's he's a Sam

446
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:07.039
Worthington's like second in command or highly
kind of presents it. I absolutely love

447
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:14.119
the tenderness that Michael Rooker's character has. And again you can tell him and

448
00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:19.119
Worthington's characters are a perfect match because
they both are that tender, caring.

449
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:22.799
You can tell what they how they
treat their troops, their soldiers. You

450
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.880
know, they care about them and
they're going to take care of them no

451
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.640
matter what. You know. They're
the scene that Rooker has with the other

452
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.880
two soldiers who go to do something
you know what I'm talking about. I

453
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.039
know what you're talking about. Yeah, you know, and when he's working

454
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.559
in the cornfield and he's got to
keep his eye on someone. I love

455
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.119
that scene. I thought it was
so humorous and so funny of what was

456
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.640
going on. You really didn't know
what was going on until it happened.

457
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.720
Yeah, you're like, ah,
yeah, as soon as you realize what's

458
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:55.000
happened, and the Shenanigans, you're
like, now I like it. Okay,

459
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:56.839
now I see where we're going with
it. And then again, it's

460
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.279
just like the Code with Worthington,
what he does, but that you know,

461
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:07.000
it's perfect Rooker, Rooker. It's
it's what it is. It's acts

462
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:14.160
of kindness that you wouldn't necessarily expect
from characters like this or in the situations

463
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:19.000
like this that that that make their
performances, uh, just fantastic, you

464
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.720
know, absolutely. I can't I
honestly, Dave, I can't say enough

465
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.559
about this cast. I wish we
could talk about talk about, you know,

466
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.000
this group more. I wish we
could talk about. There's plenty of

467
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.680
other people when not even mentioning,
but there's one other one I want to

468
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.000
add though, Jeff Okay, who
do you got? And that's Jeff fay

469
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:38.119
Hay who plays the tracker. Uh. I loathe him in this as you

470
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.480
as you as you should. You
know, he's a he's a dirt ball.

471
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.680
He's someone you really don't want to
be with, yeah, for sure,

472
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.920
but he plays it so well in
this movie that you have to recognize

473
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:54.559
that. Absolutely. Yeah, I
was excited. Here's here's the thing.

474
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.640
I was excited when I saw Jeff
Aye show up and I was like,

475
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.480
all right, another great character.
I can't wait to follow him and see

476
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.599
what and then as soon as you
realize who he is and what motivates him,

477
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:12.359
Yeah, I couldn't wait for an
apache arrow to hit his skull.

478
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.920
I kept hoping for it, you
know, And that's that's not a spoiler

479
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.839
because it doesn't. He's he will
see him in chapter two. Oh but

480
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.519
man, I just was like,
Fay, he you jerk, you know,

481
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:27.799
bring it? You know he's he's
slinging mud to the Jeff name.

482
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:31.079
As far as I don't like it, man, Yeah, he doesn't get

483
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:34.759
to know him though, I was
like a character I'm not gonna like,

484
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:37.640
but I love it. Listen,
you, Dave, you and I have

485
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:42.079
talked about it hundreds of times.
You cannot care about your heroes unless they

486
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.400
have great villains, absolutely to to
contend with. And you know, and

487
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:50.920
you want to care about these these
these villains and and Fay. He he's

488
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.279
he's bringing it in this one.
He's bringing it because he's he's got charisma.

489
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.880
Yeah, you know, am I
am uh i am I am I

490
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.079
out of line to say he's he's
he's somewhat charming. He is in a

491
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:06.720
way. Yeah, it's like I
want to sit around the campfire and and

492
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.599
hear his stories. But I also
am you know, disgusted by him.

493
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.079
So it's right, he's he does
a great job. Absolutely does a great

494
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:20.199
job. I'll tell you what.
Let's let's take a quick break and when

495
00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:22.519
we get back, I know we
got to talk about a couple of people

496
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:30.199
behind the scenes before we jump into
production. Okay, all right, welcome

497
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:38.559
back. Dave and I are discussing
Kevin Costner's critically underrated Western Horizon in American

498
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:45.280
Saga Chapter one. Criminally underrated criminally
underrated, can we, you know,

499
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.840
in the interest moving, keeping things
moving, you know, keep keeping us

500
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.280
on pace. I know we can't
spend a lot of time, but you

501
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.360
know, we already talked about how
gorgeous this picture is. The cinematography.

502
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:02.360
Who is this? J Michael A. Row And you probably recognize some of

503
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.239
his work. He worked with Kevin
Coster in Open Range. Okay, well,

504
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.039
see, okay, he's on he's
he's doing camera work and Open Range.

505
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.199
He did DP for Open Range.
Okay, okay, yep, he

506
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:17.000
did the Chronicles of the Chronicles of
Riddick, he did Crash and if you've

507
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.199
seen the TV series Longmire, he
did that as well. He does some

508
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:25.559
of that. Yes, beautifully everything
he's done, Love it All, which

509
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.000
Crash talking about? Are we talking
about the Oscar winner? Are we talking

510
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.079
about the creepy one? The after
Winner? Okay? Yeah, either way,

511
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.920
I mean either way, right,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Monroe's

512
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:42.519
work is awesome. It is and
it shows off where they're shooting at absolutely

513
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.519
uh in a dramatic fashion, as
it should, because not only do we

514
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:51.760
have characters in this, you know, played by actors, but the area

515
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.199
that it's in is a character in
itself. I think you would agree with

516
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:55.599
that. I would absolutely agree with
that. Dan. You know, I've

517
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:01.280
been lucky. I've been fortunate enough
to to shoot some you'r uh uh short

518
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:08.519
films, and I gotta tell you, like sometimes the the location does a

519
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:12.679
lot of the lot of the heavy
lifting for you, which I think you

520
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.440
could. You could, you would
assume that with a movie like Horizon,

521
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.679
But there's just so much to take
in and that's a lot of pressure on

522
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.159
a DP to to to look at
this setting. I mean, think about

523
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:27.599
where they're at because you know they're
on location. It's like, yeah,

524
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:30.360
I've got a lot to a lot
to pull into this this shot. And

525
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.960
meanwhile, keep keep the focus on
on your actors who are performing their craft.

526
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.719
But meanwhile, look what look what's
surrounding them. Absolutely, the guy.

527
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.320
The guy's amazing as far as I'm
concerned. Yep. Very talented individual,

528
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.679
that's for sure. I can see
why Kevin Costner chosen We we have

529
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.880
we definitely have to We've got to
talk about this score. Uh, John

530
00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:00.000
Debney, this listen. I know
you are a big fan of Debt.

531
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.880
I've recently become a major fan of
Debney, and I would almost say that

532
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.039
this might be some of his best
work. M h. You know,

533
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.079
I've got a lot of good work
out there, but this has got a

534
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.400
lot of great work, right,
But what your your thoughts on you know

535
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.400
your your thoughts on this. On
this score though, so it's clearly epic

536
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:23.360
in scale. And so if you've
seen the trailer to this, the piece

537
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:28.119
that Debney creates for that trailer from
beginning to end of that, it's in

538
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:32.239
this film in its entirety. And
the scene that it's really heavily used in

539
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:37.800
in its entirety from the trailer is
is you know the attack scene which you

540
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.400
you see in the trailer with the
cabin and stuff like that. And when

541
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:45.440
Debney hits on the notes that he
needs to hit when certain things are happening

542
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:51.440
for dramatic reasons, he knocks it
out of the park with his music score.

543
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.320
And there's the one scene that happens
inside the tent, Jeff, that

544
00:37:55.400 --> 00:38:00.119
I can't say we yeah when it
does happen. I mean, the Debney's

545
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:07.519
score is hitting its crescendo right then
and there, and it just floods emotions

546
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.039
in you. And if it doesn't
move you, there's something wrong with you.

547
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:20.159
The sweeping, just magnitude of this
score. I mean it swells at

548
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:24.599
just the right moments. I absolutely
love it. Yeah, I mean the

549
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:30.079
the I love scores to have vocals, and he uses vocals in this absolutely

550
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:34.440
beautifully, which Debney has done and
he does sco but even like even like

551
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:37.400
the subtle moments, like with his
use of strings. Oh yeah, it's

552
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:42.719
so so beautiful. Yep. But
I've been listening to this. H I

553
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.199
got I got the score my Spotify. I'm telling you right now, even

554
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:50.880
like the the final track or one
of the final tracks. Uh, you

555
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:52.840
know, and for those of you
looking on Spotify, it's I'm talking about

556
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:59.320
Horizon montage begins slash closing survey mm
hm, that whole scene, Dave.

557
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:04.000
I had been sitting there for three
hours, and I was not ready to

558
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.320
get up. I was like,
bring me chapter two right now after.

559
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.800
I need more. I need more. I'll tell you what else we need

560
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.639
more of the listeners have been telling
us, and you know, we've been

561
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.320
trying to supply it when we can. Our good buddy, uh Wayne White

562
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.519
did oh yeah, I think it's
time for another scoring session because I know

563
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:29.880
Wayne loves John Debney. He is
Wayne take it away, sir. Composer

564
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.760
John Debney has been a man whose
work I've followed since very early in his

565
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.800
career. I discovered Debney's music back
in the early nineteen nineties with his Emmy

566
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:43.920
winning scores for the Steven Spielberg TV
series Sequest DSV, and over the years

567
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:49.079
he's composed some of the most incredible
soundtracks of recent times, from TV scores

568
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:52.920
like The Star Trek, The Next
Generation episode The Pegasus, the nineteen ninety

569
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.840
six Doctor Who TV movie, and
recently his work on the Oraville in Young

570
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.239
Sheldon and to his film's hocus Pocus
and It Seeks The Passion of the Christ

571
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:04.639
Iron Man two, and even this
year is Garfield the Movie. I have

572
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:07.960
dozens of John Debney scores on my
shelf and love every one of them.

573
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:10.840
So when I heard the announcement that
Debney would be scoring Kevin Costner's new Western

574
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:17.159
film Horizon, I was overjoyed.
Debney has excelled at bringing US americanas Skyles

575
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:22.280
scores, and I knew that he
would bring his best game to such an

576
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.679
epic film like this. The best
quote to bring up we won directly from

577
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:30.880
director Kevin Costner. Music is important, but it's important to get the right

578
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.440
guy, and for Horizon, John
Debney was the right guy. This isn't

579
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.719
the first time John had worked with
on a project with Costner. He had

580
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:43.880
scored the actors twenty twelve mini series
Hatfields and McCoy's for the History Channel.

581
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.480
Both Debney and Costner chose the Royal
Scottish National Orchestra to perform the music this

582
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.440
time. John had worked with this
orchestra before, back in the nineteen nineties

583
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:55.920
on re recordings of famous scores like
Superman the Movie and The Seventh Voyage of

584
00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:01.199
Simbad for Very Stare Band Records.
There are some incredible sand out pieces from

585
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.840
this score. The first of my
pick would be the incredible five minute start

586
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:12.199
of Massacre, a furious and fast
action cue with bursts of brass and low

587
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.599
strings that set the tone for this
important scene in the film. Then there's

588
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:22.840
Russell escapes Slash Nathaniel leaving Francis and
Elizabeth, a full orchestra feast of loud

589
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.960
brass and thunderous percussion which showcases debn
ability to handle a full orchestra. Next

590
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:34.159
is Bearing the Dead and identifying bodies, a somber yet gorgeous piece with full

591
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:37.280
strings and underlying piano that reminds me
of an earlier score that he did for

592
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:42.599
the TV movie Classes sixty one,
which I consider nearly as perfect a score

593
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:47.320
as Debney can give us. Next
would be Seducing Hayes and Francis in Geppart,

594
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:51.480
which, while listening to this,
makes me remember his scores for the

595
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.119
TV series The Young Riders, which
he won his first Emmy Award with.

596
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.239
Then finally there's Horizon and Montage begin
closing Survey, which returns the music to

597
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:06.800
triumphant heroism, beginning with two minutes
of optimistic strings and brass, and then

598
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:10.920
ending with the orchestra bringing the whole
film to a thunderous climax. At the

599
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.639
present, soundtrack fans will be happy
to know that this score, all ninety

600
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.719
five minutes of incredibled Debney music in
thirty nine tracks, is available to download

601
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:23.639
or stream on Amazon, Apple,
and any other major digital musical services.

602
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:28.199
Debney himself has said that a CD
version of the score is coming in the

603
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:30.760
near future, but a date or
label has not been set at this time.

604
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.079
John Debney has been confirmed to have
scored the film's sequel, Chapter two,

605
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:38.360
and this will give the composer a
chance to take the themes he has

606
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:43.599
created for chapter one and explore them
further. I can't wait to see what

607
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:47.119
he brings us musically next. In
the meantime, please go out and watch

608
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:52.400
Horizon Chapter one, either in theater
or when it's released on digital platforms on

609
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:59.199
July sixteenth. Listen to the music. You're in for a treat. I

610
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.519
couldn't said a better Wayne. You
know what, Wayne introduced me to John

611
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:09.400
Debney years ago, years ago,
and I know Wayne has always been anything

612
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:14.719
Debney he brings out. Wayne has
been all over and I couldn't agree more

613
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.239
with everything that Wayne had said about
his score for this film. Very talented

614
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.880
individual and he shows off his talent
in this film without question he does.

615
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:24.519
I'll tell you something. This is
one of the first times we've done it.

616
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.559
We've done an episode where I was
like, you know, I would

617
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:32.360
love to talk to this composer at
some point, like if Dave, if

618
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:36.760
we could get John Debney to join
us and just talk about his work.

619
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.840
Yeah, we're gonna work on that, Jeff, We're gonna work all right.

620
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:43.639
Hey, I'm all for it.
Yep, tell me about tell me

621
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:46.199
a little bit about how this movie
came to be, Like, can we

622
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:50.400
talk about the background a little bit? Yeah, absolutely so. Actually,

623
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:55.519
Kevin Costnrom came up with this idea
back in like nineteen eighty eight. Clearly

624
00:43:55.559 --> 00:44:00.000
probably at that time he wasn't ready
to roll this out as the biggest scale

625
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.280
that this is, but you know, it goes with his personal beliefs that

626
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.559
you know, he loved and was
inspired by the two true story of the

627
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:13.639
American Old West, so he obviously
wanted to bring that to fruition and bring

628
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.280
it to a reality on our screens. So he's been working on it since

629
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.280
then. He actually took it to
Walt Disney. I believe it was I

630
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:23.280
want to say around the beginning of
two thousand and two thousand and three something

631
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:28.360
of that neighborhood. Yeah, and
Disney was apparently going to do it.

632
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:32.079
They were in pre production of it, but he discovered the studio kind of

633
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:37.039
had some limits with it and didn't
want to give the budget that he was

634
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.960
needing for this film, so he
backed out of I know, so he

635
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:43.199
backed away from Disney. You know, I said, nevermind, you know,

636
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.519
I'm going to take my time.
This is my baby. I love

637
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.760
this and I want it to be
as big and as epic as as it

638
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:52.920
can be, because that's the way
he envisioned it, right, Yeah,

639
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.519
well he wanted to pull with from
that. I could if this would have

640
00:44:55.559 --> 00:45:00.320
come out in like early two thousands
or even nineties m hmm, from Disney,

641
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.119
like I could see them kind of
going like with like a Touchstone Studio

642
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:08.119
or Buenavista. Yep, given given
the kind of picture is. But man,

643
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:13.840
it would be so clean, I
guess what I'm looking for. It

644
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:19.119
was just it would it would just
feel so so inauthentic. It would.

645
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:22.440
And he's the crazy thing too,
is that he really didn't plan it to

646
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:27.360
be the big three four films that
it is going to be now. Yeah.

647
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.679
It was actually going to be more
of a single film, which would

648
00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:32.840
never have worked in my opinion now
that we've seen what we've gotten. So

649
00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:38.320
I guess around twenty fourteen, twenty
fifteen he expanded it to become a trilogy

650
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:42.360
at that time, which now we
know has become four films. Four films.

651
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:47.360
Yeah, and he got John Baird
involved, who helped write the script.

652
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.119
Good choice, absolutely, a very
good choice. And then he brought

653
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.920
it to first and they actually filmed
this the entire thing in muab Utah.

654
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:00.960
I was wondering, like if this
like where is this at? Because it's

655
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:06.719
yeah, then it's just it's just
it's breathtaking country. It is as far

656
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:08.800
as I'm concerned, and that's why
he chose it to be filmed there.

657
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:14.239
And Jeff, you know me,
I'm always I will praise cgi where it

658
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.000
needs to be praised, when it
needs to be used, but it's overused

659
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:21.000
in a lot of films. I
praise this film and the fact that everything

660
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.400
is location love it and I absolutely
love it. Everything's a real set,

661
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:30.840
everything's on location in moa Utah,
and you can see it. Everything's tangible,

662
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.960
everything's real, and you feel that
you are in the West with these

663
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:40.480
characters in this absolutely Another thing I
want to go ahead now. One other

664
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:45.480
thing that I want to do call
out in this film is that Kevin Costner's

665
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:49.920
son is in this movie. Oh
really know that? No, I mean,

666
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.039
I know there's a couple of kids, you know, kids run around

667
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.719
this movie. But wait, who
is he playing? He plays Nathaniel kid

668
00:46:55.800 --> 00:47:01.800
Rich. Oh okay, he's the
Sun. Yeah, yes, that's that's

669
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:07.079
Kevin Costner's son. Hayes Costner his
name wait, his son in real life,

670
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:10.599
his name is real, Yes,
is named Hayes, and Costner is

671
00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:14.920
playing a guy named him that Cort. That's that's cool. I like that,

672
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:17.679
Yes, sir. You know you
mentioned you mentioned him back away from

673
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:20.880
Disney because they didn't want to give
him the money, the right the right

674
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.719
amount of money. M hm.
My understanding is that he he puts up

675
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:28.320
thirty eight million of his own money
for the budget, yes, sir,

676
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:32.920
And then he has like two anonymous
investors, uh kind of kind of add

677
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:37.400
a couple, a couple more men. Any mortgages his home to make sure

678
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:42.440
this gets done. Now, that
is such a commitment. It is it's

679
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.880
it's a scary commitment because Jeff,
you and I obviously couldn't never do anything

680
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:52.679
like this. He's talking about it. I've mortgaged my home several times.

681
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.320
But I mean that that tells you
how much love he has, how much

682
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.639
passion he has for this film.
And I come completely and utterly respect that

683
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:06.800
man, because if I was in
his shoes, you can guarantee I would

684
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.320
do something just like this, just
a different time period, well, same

685
00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:14.519
time period, just a different area
of America. So absolutely, I'm with

686
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.320
Kevin Costner on this. I would
have done the same damn thing. So

687
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.440
kudos to you, Costner, and
I really hope you succeeded this well.

688
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:27.440
So here's the deal. We know
this movie comes out what June twenty eighth,

689
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:30.079
I think it initially was released.
It's still playing in theaters. I

690
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:37.719
think to date it's made about thirty
million, which is critically low. So

691
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:42.880
much so that you know, like
we said, chapter two has been pulled

692
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:46.320
from theatrical release. We don't know
when we're getting it. We don't know

693
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:51.920
if we're gonna I don't know what
this does for chapters three and four because

694
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.480
minunderstanding was that he was about to
go into pre production to shoot them.

695
00:48:55.400 --> 00:49:00.480
But I think part of it is, you know, can we can we

696
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:05.039
talk about the Yellowstone controversy? Oh
please, let's let's let's get try try

697
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:08.000
and shed a little lighter because listen, I'm a big fan of Yellowstone,

698
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:12.760
I know you are too. His
character, John Dutton, one of the

699
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:21.480
great television characters ever. Maybe the
show is the show's amazing. Now we

700
00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:23.960
have to remember something because look,
we've all been waiting for that final season

701
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:27.920
at Yellows in a drop, and
it's been a couple of years, and

702
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.280
we're all upset. And you know, as you get upset, you're like,

703
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.800
well, why haven't we got it? And who's to blame for it?

704
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.880
Right? We got to remember,
you know, Costner loses both his

705
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:45.360
parents in twenty twenty one, yep, the writer's strike and actors strikes they

706
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:51.440
hit in twenty twenty three. He's
going through a divorce and despite all that,

707
00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:58.280
he's still trying to finish up his
commitments to the show and you know,

708
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.159
do some some prep for Horizon,
and and I'll you know, ultimately,

709
00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:07.480
Costner has stated that his departure from
Yellowstone was not due to the development

710
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.320
of the Horizon films, but it
was largely due to the fact that Yellowstone's

711
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:19.159
final season has been restructured several times. You know, Taylor Sheridan has kind

712
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:23.800
of the hit the reset button repeatedly, you know. Ultimately, now we

713
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:28.400
know it's planning to be split into
two separate parts, which I gotta tell

714
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:30.960
you something, I don't care how
great a show is. Nothing bothers me

715
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:36.880
more than when a studio or a
showrunner decides to make the final season a

716
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:39.159
two part season. Yeah, I
can't stand that. Listen, if you're

717
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:44.760
if season six is the last season
and then you're gonna break it into two

718
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:49.239
parts, just own it and call
it season six and season seven. I

719
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:52.639
can't. Breaking Bad is a prime
example of a show that started this trend,

720
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:57.599
I think. But now Cobra Kai
is doing it, Yellowstone's trying to

721
00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:01.039
do it. I just think it's
lazy. Think it's you know, it's

722
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:04.920
just call it what it is.
That's all. That's all I'm gonna say.

723
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:07.440
Well, and here's here's the thing
to Jeff, this is not all

724
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:13.400
on Kevin Costner's shoulders that Yellowstone turned
out the way Yellowstones turned out. Sheridan

725
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.360
have too many, too many projects
one at once, way too many projects.

726
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:20.559
I mean, dude, come on, now, well look at all

727
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:22.679
at all all fairness, he the
guy does nothing but hit home runs.

728
00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:28.719
Every one of his shows are amazing, Yes, but it also you have

729
00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:31.519
to wonder, you know, to
your point of him having multiple projects going,

730
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:36.880
you have to remember Yellowstone season five, there's been ongoing delays and there's

731
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.199
a real lack of completed scripts,
and Costner even mentioned this. He brought

732
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:47.239
this up recently. He actually shared
the fact that he allowed Sharedan to read

733
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.880
the Horizon script, hoping it would
kind of provide some inspiration to to like,

734
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:55.880
where's it, where's the Yellowstone show
going to go? Even offered to

735
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:00.480
provide ideas on how to write his
character at a Yellowstone, whether it's like,

736
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:02.079
you know, hey, give me
like some epic death scene, or

737
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.039
give me a chance to come back
and i'll i'll, you know, put

738
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.119
me in prison, got whatever the
case may be, yep, you know.

739
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:12.320
And as a last resort, because
the you know, now we're in

740
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:15.519
production on Horizon. As a last
resort, he even offered to take time

741
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:19.320
off of the production schedule to facilitate
things, whether it be like an on

742
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:22.440
screen death or whatever. And him
and they just he just can't come to

743
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:27.960
terms with Paramount and Sheridan like they
don't want to. It seems like they

744
00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:31.840
didn't want to give him the appropriate
time too to do what he wants to

745
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:36.440
do. Also, right, So
yeah, so everyone who's blaming Kevin cost

746
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:40.320
on this, don't well, I'll
be fair and say there's there's two sides

747
00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:45.400
to the argument. But I don't
believe that we've heard Kevin Costner's side as

748
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:52.000
loudly as we've heard Sheridan's side in
Paramount's side. Yep. You know,

749
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.800
I know, I know there was
even like some backlash for this from this

750
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:59.880
film people. You know I had
I had a great conversation with this about

751
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:04.239
with my friend Brandon, who uh
who made some great points about you know,

752
00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:07.840
this is a perfect marriage, like
we should be Costner. They should

753
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.880
have figured this out to where Costner
could be. We could be, we

754
00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:14.239
should be. We should be watching
Yellowstone season five right now, and we

755
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:21.960
should be flooded with Horizon trailers on
the commercial breaks. It's it's a it's

756
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.039
a marriage. It's a perfect marriage, and yet we don't have that.

757
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:30.360
Yeah, Yellowstone is hurting for it
because let's be honest, how many years

758
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:32.320
does a show take off before you
you forget about it? Are you quit

759
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:36.599
or you'd give up? Yeah,
I've forgotten about it, Jeff. Yeah.

760
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:38.800
Yeah. At this point, I'm
gonna go back and I'm gonna like

761
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:42.280
re do the rewatch, Like,
oh, season five is finally out,

762
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.599
I'll start with season one and you
know, binge watch my way up to

763
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:47.519
it. Yep. But some people
don't have that patience, and some people

764
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:50.000
are just like, yeah, I'm
done with it. I don't care.

765
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.679
I don't care what happens now.
Yeah, it just sucks because if there's

766
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:58.760
if there's Yellowstone fans out there that
are holding him accountable for Yellowstone and they're

767
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:00.199
and they're saying, I don't I'm
not gonna see Horizon, or I don't

768
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:02.360
want it. I don't want I
don't want to give that a chance because

769
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:07.280
he should have been doing Yellowstone.
Well, keep in mind, there's there's

770
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:08.760
two sides to the story. That's
all. That's all I'm saying about it.

771
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:15.639
Yep, well said Dave, you
want to talk a little bit about

772
00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:20.960
Kevin Costner before we dive into his
filmography, Sure, let's talk a little

773
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:22.960
bit about him. I got I
got some fun things here for you,

774
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:27.119
Dave. You know, we we
you know we've changed this up. You

775
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.119
haven't been on a film by a
whole lot because you've been busy on the

776
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:31.840
Bridge of the Enterprise and you've been
doing that. You've been celebrating the forty

777
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.400
threeth anniversary, have a lot of
films on a film at forty five.

778
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:38.920
But now we're just kind of we're
giving you a couple of fun tidbits about

779
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.599
the director and maybe a fun quote
if we can before we jump into the

780
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.000
fhlmography. So listen to this,
and this is this is something right out

781
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:51.639
of the David Burns playbook. At
the age of eighteen, Kevin Costner builds

782
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:55.000
his own canoe and paddles his way
down the same rivers that Lewis and Clark

783
00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:01.000
followed to the Pacific, recreating their
journey. Wow, I was not doing

784
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:08.320
something that awesome at so Kevin Costner
was doing it. If you're wondering how

785
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:13.320
he even got into acting, it
was it was while working for a marketing

786
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:17.639
firm. He has a chance meeting
with legendary actor Richard Burton on a flight

787
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:23.280
from Mexico. Burton encourages him to
pursue acting, so he quits his job

788
00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:30.159
immediately moves to Hollywood, where he
h he found He found work on a

789
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:35.039
deep sea fishing boat. He was
a truck driver for a short time,

790
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:37.960
and then he was giving the bus
tours to like the Stars homes, like

791
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:42.920
the Map of the Stars type of
thing. He's doing all that before landing

792
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:50.960
his first role in a soft core
sex film. It's it's been rumored that

793
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.920
Kevin Costner, how do I say
this, should be proud of himself.

794
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.960
Okay, So if you're wondering,
like, how's how's he doing the soft

795
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:04.599
corese sex movie, Well, you
know, he's rumor has it, he's

796
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:09.079
equipped. But afterward he did vow
he would never do a film like that

797
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:14.039
again. Six years later, he
gets his big break in nineteen eighty three's

798
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:17.239
The Big Chill, you know,
which obviously his scenes are cut, most

799
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:21.400
of them, most of them,
most of them, but it was enough

800
00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:23.280
to make an impression on Lawrence Kazin, who who decides to use him in

801
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:28.559
Silverado. Now, you know,
any chance I get to talk about nineteen

802
00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:32.760
eighty six, of course I'm gonna
do it. Of course, he turns

803
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:39.679
down an unspecified role in nineteen eighty
six's Platoon because he thought the script portrayed

804
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:46.320
American soldiers in Vietnam negatively. And
I think that's a fair Yeah, And

805
00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:50.199
he turns it down because he didn't
want to insult his brother, who was

806
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:55.440
a marine and a Vietnam veteran during
that time. I respect that. I

807
00:56:55.519 --> 00:57:02.039
respect that. You know, Kevin
Costner is no stranger to big movies opening

808
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:07.639
to little to no fanfare. Yeah, and we're dealing with that. We're

809
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:10.639
kind of dealing with that way right
now with Horizon. But here's what he

810
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:14.920
had to say. Here's what Here's
a quote I found where he's talking about

811
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:21.280
opening opening weekend. He says,
quote, the opening weekend is a hard

812
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:23.519
one for me, especially when you
take a lot of time with a movie.

813
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:29.079
I don't know how it is with
other people's movies. It's like you

814
00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.840
don't know how other people make love
because you've only made love yourself, and

815
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:36.039
so unless you've watched them, how
do you know if you're doing it right.

816
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:38.760
I know how I try to make
a movie. I know how I

817
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:44.119
lose sleep over it. I know
how I deliberate for hours over the difference

818
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:49.679
between saying she went over there or
saying she's gone. And people will say,

819
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.320
what's the difference, Kevin, Well, it's a big difference to me

820
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:57.760
to find that exactly right line.
And when you work hard on things like

821
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:00.679
that, it's frustrating to me that
a movie can be dismissed so easily.

822
00:58:01.440 --> 00:58:05.280
These movies, for me, are
like the same kind of pictures my mom

823
00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:08.000
put up on the refrigerator. I'm
really proud of them, and if they

824
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:13.800
get dismissed, and even though you're
not eight years old anymore. It hurts.

825
00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:17.079
Wow, what I mean, that's
quote. That's a guy that gives

826
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:21.119
a damn as far as yes it
is, and that's why we're doing this

827
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:22.360
right now, right, Yeah,
that's why we're That's why we had to

828
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:28.599
jump into Horizon, you know,
way before we should probably be talking about

829
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:32.119
Horizon exactly. Yeah, but this
film deserves the love and you can see

830
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.760
that, man and that. I
didn't really know how much of a passion

831
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:38.320
Kevin Costner had until you know,
you gave me. I mean, I

832
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:40.920
knew how much he loved making movies, and I know how much how he

833
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:44.320
loved directing because come on, Dancing
with the Wolves, you name it,

834
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:50.000
oh gosha. But when I hear
that kind of quote coming from Kevin Costner,

835
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:52.320
it reminds me of myself in you, Jeff, and how much we

836
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:57.920
love and appreciate these movies and not
just stuff that we make ourselves, but

837
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.440
what other people make, because that's
why we do this podcast. Right.

838
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:06.000
He absolutely does shot what these people
do in making these movies to bring him

839
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:08.360
to this and hopefully that we love
them and we like them and we go

840
00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:13.280
see them. So wow, that
was very impressive. Yeah, well,

841
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:19.400
his I wish I could say his
filmography is impressive. Uh, And what

842
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:22.760
I mean is the length of it. Sadly, sadly it's very short,

843
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:28.400
because we listen, he is still
giving us dynamic performances. He's an amazing

844
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:32.880
actor. I hope he continues to
show himself on the silver screen. But

845
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:38.559
I'm hoping he will make time for
more more films for himself to direct,

846
00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:43.719
because be it small, it is, it is mighty. You already talked

847
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:45.840
about dances with Dances with Wolves.
He does that one in nineteen ninety.

848
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:51.239
That's his directory of de Wut Dave. We obviously did not cover that one,

849
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:53.480
you know, being you know,
it's not I wouldn't exactly call that

850
00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:59.239
underrated, but you know, but
I had the pleasure to discuss Dances with

851
00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:04.920
Wolves on the docu based seventy seven
podcast with Jo which I'm you, Hey,

852
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:06.760
you were you got the invite?
You were out of town, man,

853
01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:10.639
I went, what are we gonna
say? But you know there,

854
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:15.599
you know, let's let's be honest, like you you did have a nice

855
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:22.000
interaction with one of its stars last
year. Yeah, you want to remind

856
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:27.400
the audience about that? So yeah, I mean we went to motor City

857
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.480
coom right, yeah it was MotorCity, Okay, sure, yeah, Murti

858
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:37.119
City com and good old beautiful Marry
McDonald was there. And I've always been

859
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:42.159
a big fan of hers and never
thought I would have the opportunity to meet

860
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:45.960
her. And of course we walk
up to the table and I, you

861
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.280
know, quietly or I don't know, I didn't know if you would hear

862
01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:51.599
me or not. When I told
her how much how beautiful she was in

863
01:00:51.639 --> 01:00:55.480
person, you went full Lando Calrisian
in that moment. You called her out

864
01:00:55.519 --> 01:01:00.480
on, you know, on how
great she's looking. And I think she

865
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:02.000
was a little smitten. I think
she was because I didn't know what kind

866
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.400
of reaction I was going to get
from her, And apparently I got a

867
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.159
good reaction because the rest of the
day when we ran into her, she

868
01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.239
kind of remembered me for the rest
of the day. Yeah you got,

869
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:13.480
you got. You got more smiles
from her than I did. So I

870
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:15.760
was like, well, okay,
absolutely, but yes, no, very

871
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:22.440
talented. She had such a great
uh you know, we had a chance

872
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.400
to listen to her speak about her
her career, her films, uh,

873
01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:29.159
some of her you know, some
of her beliefs, and some of some

874
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:32.400
of the things that she's passionate about. Yeah, that was a fantastic Uh.

875
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.519
That was fantastic opportunity to listen to
her. Uh yeah. Hopefully we

876
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.280
get to hopefully get to talk to
her again and meet with her again at

877
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:44.599
some point, but sure, hope. So Dances with Wolves one of the

878
01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:47.320
one of the greatest westerns of all
time. If you, I know,

879
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:51.079
some people are like, that's not
a Western. I'm not. I think

880
01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:53.480
it is. I feel like it
qualifies. You could go either way,

881
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:58.840
Western, historical drama, or whatever
it all fits in those bat bucket doesn't

882
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:02.519
matter because ultimately it's it's just it's
an incredible film. It is without question.

883
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:07.480
Nineteen ninety seven, he's back in
the director's chair. He does a

884
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:14.559
film that is not exactly that well
received, and I have to believe that

885
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:20.719
water World maybe maybe set this up
for failure. Oh yeah, you know.

886
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:25.440
And I should say that the using
the word failures is not exactly accurate

887
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:30.960
on my part because look, I
look, I dig water World, my

888
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:35.440
enjoy it. It's awesome. But
I think everyone expected to make a billion

889
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:38.480
dollars and when it didn't, they're
like, oh wait, Kevin Costner's not

890
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:43.960
superhuman. He will make a bomb
here and there, which it's not.

891
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:49.679
But The Postman in nineteen ninety seven, this is this is. This is

892
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.199
Costner doing a Western that isn't a
western, you know, and a lot

893
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:55.960
of people don't even remember this one. This is I'll give you a quick

894
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:01.800
synopsis. Nameless Drifter don's a Postman
uniform and a bag of mail as he

895
01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:07.360
begins a quest to inspire hope to
the survivors living in a post apocalyptic America.

896
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:10.800
Mm hm, I enjoyed that film. I don't remember it because there's

897
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:14.000
been a wat since I've seen it, but I do enjoying it. I

898
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:17.760
saw it in theaters. Yeah I
did too. He must he's a fan

899
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:21.280
of Will Patten, because I know
I remember what we got in this one.

900
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:24.079
Uh, but yeah, I don't. I never understood why this one

901
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:28.880
didn't do the box office that that
it that we I thought it should.

902
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:32.400
Honestly, Will Patten was in Yellowstone
Tube by the way. Yeah, Will

903
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:37.199
Patten's everywhere he is. He's like, I like Will Patten. I do

904
01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:44.280
too. I like Will Patten Armageddon
Oh yeah, oh before Yeah, I

905
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:47.000
don't know how we got sidetracked there, but it's easy to do. Yeah,

906
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:51.639
but back to The Postman. Yeah, I think this is one of

907
01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:54.079
those like you haven't seen it since
it came out, and maybe you need

908
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:58.960
to go back and watch it,
watch it again. Maybe you're like,

909
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:00.800
I don't remember? Did I like
that one? Did I not like that

910
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:06.920
one? How do you not like
a post apocalyptic movie starring Tom Petty?

911
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:12.119
Right? Did you do you remember
Tom Petty's in it? Right? Did

912
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.639
he play the mayor? I think
yeah, I don't know. Post Man

913
01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:18.239
in nineteen ninety seven. I'm ready
for a rewatch on that one. I

914
01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:25.400
think me too. Now two thousand
and three, Dave, you had not

915
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:29.679
joined the film by crew at this
point, but Brad and I covered open

916
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:32.920
range. I want to say maybe
in our in season two, if I

917
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:39.239
remember, if I'm remembering that correctly. But man, this is one of

918
01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:44.320
my favorite This is one of my
favorite westerns. Yeah, Costner, Robert

919
01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:50.519
Duval, Diego, Luna Man,
and let's not forget uh, the very

920
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:59.000
lovely and talented Annette Binning, who's
just fantastic. Also, Yep, I

921
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:00.000
don't know what I mean. I
I don't know what else we could say

922
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.719
that we didn't say on our Open
Range episode. But you know, anything

923
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:08.239
you want to add anything that you're
your thoughts on open I mean, you

924
01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:10.480
guys did a really good job with
that podcast. And for listeners, if

925
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:13.199
you've not checked out the Open Range
one, definitely go check that out with

926
01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:15.800
because we really can't add to what
you two said about this film because it

927
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:20.800
is really well done, beautifully shot, beautifully performed by everybody by the cast

928
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:25.280
in this movie. So yeah,
I really can't add to more what you

929
01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:29.159
guys said on that except for that
it is a really good film. Yeah.

930
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:33.320
Well, we've been talking about Horizon
and American Saga. Chapter one,

931
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:40.639
Dave upcoming now he it's slated,
you know, chapters two and three,

932
01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:44.880
I'm sorry, chapters three and four. I should say Chapter two is already

933
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:47.800
finished. It's done, it's wrapped. Chapters three and four are what he's

934
01:05:48.039 --> 01:05:51.519
in production on. Yep. So
I don't know how that's going to shake

935
01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:57.039
out. I'm here's my hope.
My hope is that people give this a

936
01:05:57.119 --> 01:06:00.159
chance, especially now that's on the
premium video and demand, you know,

937
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:02.000
because there's a lot of people that
are like, hey, three hours is

938
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:06.280
a little too much for me to
handle in a theater, right, But

939
01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:09.559
now that now I can watch it
in the comfort of my own home,

940
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:14.840
I'll pay twenty bucks to watch it. That's that's fine. My hope is

941
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:20.639
that this kind of gets a resurgence, it grows in popularity on home media.

942
01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:25.360
I'm hoping it maybe gets a limited
re release around Christmas time for Oscar

943
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:29.280
consideration, because we didn't really have
a chance to talk about the performances in

944
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.400
that light. But I kind of
feel like there's there's some there's some there's

945
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:35.559
some possibilities there which you agree there
for sure. Yes, yeah, definitely

946
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:42.000
potential for cinematography, for score,
or for direction, on on. You

947
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.199
know. So so for Monroe,
for Debney, for Costner. I would

948
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:49.320
hope that the Oscars, you know, there's a there's a there's a nomination

949
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:55.519
coming up for him. That being
said, he's gonna finish this. I

950
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.119
think he'll finish it one way or
another, because he did. I did

951
01:06:58.119 --> 01:07:02.360
see where he said. Look,
once the fourth one is out, I'm

952
01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:05.760
going to recut it and I'm going
to re release it as a mini series

953
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:11.519
for television. Nice. So,
I mean, I'm not waiting until that

954
01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:15.000
happens. I'll watch it when that
happens. But my question to you,

955
01:07:16.280 --> 01:07:21.320
let's let's let's imagine a world war. Costner finishes Chapter four, maybe he

956
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:27.360
works something out with Shardan PARAMOUNTA and
finishes Yellowstone. What do you want to

957
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:29.760
see? What do you want to
see him do next? Because he's I

958
01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.679
kinda I kind of handcuffed you at
the beginning. Yeah, you know,

959
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:36.239
I said, hey, you can't
pick a baseball movie, you can't pick

960
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.559
a western, you know, because
I just want to, you know,

961
01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:44.639
let's flex our costner performance muscles and
what else has he done? What do

962
01:07:44.679 --> 01:07:46.719
you want to see next? Like, whether whether it's him directing or whether

963
01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:49.039
it's a role for them, what
would you want to see Costner do?

964
01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:54.199
I obviously he's probably gonna want to
take a break from directing, to be

965
01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:58.719
honest with you, like that thinks, Yeah, after after making these four

966
01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:00.400
epic films, he's been one to
be in something where he doesn't have to

967
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:04.119
direct, He only has to perform
or act. I don't know, some

968
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:10.840
kind of biopic film I would think
about whom I don't know, some kind

969
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:15.639
of biography or something like that that
he could portray a character, a famous

970
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:17.920
person, in my opinion, is
what I think would be the best for

971
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:24.399
him, which I know he's Yeah, he played Jim Garrison already exactly all

972
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:26.920
right, but he's so good at
it, and he loves he loves history,

973
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.399
so he's obviously wants to continue with
that because you can see that in

974
01:08:30.439 --> 01:08:33.479
his uh, what he's done over
the years. Hey, I love his

975
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:38.800
I love his historical stuff. But
I already told you I want to I

976
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:42.840
want to follow up film for mister
Brooks. Mister Brooks is not finished.

977
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:45.479
It would be good. I'm ready. I'm ready for more mister Brooks.

978
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:50.720
Yeah, what if we got some
kind of documentary from Kevin Costner about what?

979
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:55.079
I don't know. Let's be honest. If he's going to do a

980
01:08:55.079 --> 01:09:00.279
documentary, more than likely it's going
to be about the American West, gonna

981
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:03.880
be about you know, history like
that. But I feel like that that's

982
01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:08.880
kind of like that's a layup.
That's too easy, it is. I

983
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.039
don't know. There's there's so much
out there he could do, but I

984
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:14.479
mean, his passion and love is
for American history. You can tell I'll

985
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:15.800
tell you. I'll tell you what. Okay, I'll meet you. I'll

986
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:21.319
meet you halfway. I read where
he takes like two weeks off every year

987
01:09:23.319 --> 01:09:27.000
just for the College World Series.
No hopes that his team makes it.

988
01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:30.920
He's he's very passionate about college baseball. I'll watch a documentary. I'll watch

989
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:35.319
a baseball documentary, whether it's about
the minor leagues. You know, give

990
01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:39.319
me, give me Crash Davis,
give me a making a documentary about the

991
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:41.479
minor leagues. That'd be cool.
I'd be I'd be up for that.

992
01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:44.640
Or you know, the college the
college circuit. I'd be over with that

993
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:47.840
too. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. Here's here's my question. I know

994
01:09:47.880 --> 01:09:51.800
you're going to recommend this to the
listeners. Obviously, I am a love

995
01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:55.800
letter. This whole episode has been
a love letter to Horizon and Kevin Coster.

996
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.560
But my question to you is,
we're done. We're wrapping things up

997
01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:04.439
right now. Are you gonna go
buy it on Amazon or are you gonna

998
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:08.760
wait and get like you get your
hands on like a four K Blu ray.

999
01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:12.319
So the four K Blu Ray has
already been announced. It's coming out

1000
01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:16.840
in September. So oh, I
will be buying it in September. Thank

1001
01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:20.199
you for that update, because I
did not know that. So all right,

1002
01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:25.119
I might well Okay, I do
want to see it again. Yeah,

1003
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:28.920
I'm gonna I'll probaly see it later
this week and uh and watch it

1004
01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:30.640
on the theater on the on the
big screen one more time. That'll hold

1005
01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:33.479
be over till September, I think, And then I'm absolutely I'm with you.

1006
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:38.960
I'm buying the four k Blu ray
listeners. What do you think of

1007
01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:43.560
Horizon and American Saga Chapter one?
You can let us know on social media.

1008
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:46.720
You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out

1009
01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:50.920
a film by podcast dot com for
all of our episodes streaming free on the

1010
01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:56.279
platform of your choice. Everything that
we got is there. You can always

1011
01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:59.680
write to us at a film by
Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions,

1012
01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:02.640
coming and concerns. We may just
read your response on the show and

1013
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:08.520
send you some swag. Please join
us tomorrow for our Star Trek theme series,

1014
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:13.359
Phasers Set the Stun, Wayne,
David and Scott are continuing their conversation

1015
01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:15.359
about all things Trek. Dave,
what do you got? What do you

1016
01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:18.560
guys? What are you guys doing
tomorrow? A little thing, but yeah,

1017
01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.039
absolutely, we got a little thing
called Trek Expectations, Jeff, where

1018
01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:27.439
we're going to be talking about the
future of Star Trek, the few like

1019
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:31.399
the cinema, streaming, you name
it, what shows are on the horizon,

1020
01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:34.720
what shows have been rumored. That's
what we're gonna be discussed fight tomorrow.

1021
01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:39.279
I see what you did their Trek
expectations, your your Trek spectation.

1022
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:44.560
Okay, I like that. Yeah. Friday, our limited series nineteen ninety

1023
01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:48.840
six returns with Jason Colvin from the
Shirley You Can't Be Serious Podcast. We'll

1024
01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:51.960
be taking a look at the Dark
side of Nature. Just happens to be

1025
01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:58.079
the opening day for Twisters, so
obviously we're gonna talk about nineteen ninety six

1026
01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:03.079
is Twister, of course. For
those of you out there following, subscribing,

1027
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:09.199
hitting the like buttons, following us
on Patreon with your free membership or

1028
01:12:09.239 --> 01:12:11.520
your tiered membership, we thank you.