July 20, 2025

Michael Mann - Collateral

Michael Mann - Collateral
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Spreaker podcast player badge
JioSaavn podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 6 A Film By...

On this episode, Jeff takes Eric Dearth on a drive through the neon-lit noctural world of filmmaker Michael Mann's Los Angeles to discuss charismatic hitmen, sleek cinematography, great soundtracks, and a Tom Cruise villain we can't help but love. Come along for the ride in Collateral!

For exclusive episodes and content, check out A Film By... Podcast on our Patreon with a FREE 7-day trial. You can also sign up as a free member! 

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on Instagram, X, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:06.000
Anytime a film has a charismatic assassin, I am all

2
00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:14.599
in so considering characters like John Wick, Agent forty seven, Leon,

3
00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:20.839
Vincent Vega and Jules Winfield, or even Anton Segur. Who

4
00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:22.920
is your go to hit man?

5
00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:31.440
My go to hit man, It's gotta be Vincent Los

6
00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:36.159
Angeles Collateral. But I do have a couple of backups.

7
00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:41.520
I will say Lafemni Kita the original, not the Bridget

8
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:49.359
Fonder remake, but ultimately the best assassin movie in my opinion, Terminator.

9
00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.039
That's an interesting that's an interesting answer. I will say this,

10
00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.759
I think Vincent has got to be in the conversation.

11
00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:04.319
So let's talk about a film by Michael Mann, his

12
00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:35.640
two thousand and four neo noir action thriller Collateral. Hello everybody,

13
00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:40.280
I'm Jeff Johnson, and this is a film by podcast.

14
00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.920
Eric Dirth is with us. He's a recurring voice on

15
00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.280
the docum based seventy seven podcast. We've done a few

16
00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:52.719
episodes over there together, most recently the April Fool's Day

17
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.239
episode where I hijack Daton Show and covered Whitney Houston's

18
00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:01.439
debut album of all Time. I don't think anyone expected that,

19
00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:01.719
did they?

20
00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:06.239
Eric no, they didn't. It was a real heel turn

21
00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:08.199
I think for the podcast industry.

22
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.080
Well, you know, I had such a great time. I know,

23
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.080
I know. Liam Lewis was with us. We had a

24
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.199
we had a great conversation. I invited you guys to

25
00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.439
stop by the film by studio, and I think it

26
00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.759
was like a day later you messaged me asking if

27
00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:32.599
we could do Michael Mann's Collateral. So tell me why

28
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:34.400
why this movie was your first shot.

29
00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.120
I am a Tom Cruise fan, but I'm not the

30
00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.800
over the top Tom Cruise fan. I like some of

31
00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:47.960
his films that may be considered a little bit more questionable.

32
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:55.800
I liked Vanilla Sky, I liked Tropic Thunder, but I

33
00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.199
also liked when he plays a role where he is

34
00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:03.560
not hanging off the side of the Burke Khalifa or

35
00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.039
dangling from an airplane. I saw this movie in the

36
00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:10.280
theater in two thousand and four when it came out,

37
00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:14.039
and this was before Tom Cruise was you know, air

38
00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:19.960
quote Tom Cruise, but I loved the There's a term

39
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.439
in the industry it's called a bottle episode, and I

40
00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:26.520
loved it because it was basically a bottle episode. It

41
00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:30.240
was two people in a cab and the whole movie

42
00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:34.439
hinged on the relationship between the person in the back

43
00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:37.199
seat and the person in the front seat, and they

44
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:41.719
made it work so well. And I've heard and I

45
00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:45.879
agree with other people who say this film starts in

46
00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.919
the third act. It starts in the third act. You

47
00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.360
don't get built up. So in the very beginning of

48
00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.879
this film, a dead body falls on the cab. Boom,

49
00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.199
We're done with act one, We're done with that two,

50
00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.719
we are now to act three. What are we gonna

51
00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:06.719
do to resolve the film? And it doesn't stop from there.

52
00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:11.280
The film starts out balls to the wall, and it

53
00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.120
never stops until will last minute.

54
00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:18.240
I'm gonna agree with you. It's maybe not a build up,

55
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.920
but there's certainly tension leading up to the third act.

56
00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:25.240
As far as Show and Tell listeners, I'm gonn tell

57
00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.720
you right now. I don't know if we'll get video

58
00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.680
on this episode. But Eric, through the through the magic

59
00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:39.319
of zoom backgrounds and camera trickery, I'm seeing Eric. He

60
00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.399
is in he's wearing the the Tom Cruise suit, he's

61
00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.199
got the sunglass song, he's in the back of the cab.

62
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:45.120
Uh.

63
00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:49.160
It's just fantastic. Eric, You do this. I know we

64
00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.920
what we did. We've done some docu bay episodes. You

65
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.240
always come like, you know, like like it's a stage show.

66
00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:56.279
I appreciate your.

67
00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:59.360
You know, I know most people don't see the videos,

68
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.480
but I I've tried in every episode I've ever been

69
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:06.279
on to bring a little character to the podcast.

70
00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:09.800
A little bit about Michael Mann, a few facts and

71
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:13.560
a quote. This one blows my mind. In nineteen eighty five,

72
00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:19.920
he sued William Freedkin for plagiarism, claiming that the director

73
00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:24.639
had stole his entire concept of Miami Vice to make

74
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:29.199
the film To Live and Die in La, which coincidentally

75
00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:32.399
is celebrating its fortieth anniversary. We were thinking, actually we've

76
00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:34.639
been batting out one around wondering if we're going to

77
00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.079
cover it or not. But you know, knowing this, I

78
00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.040
kind of definitely want to put it on the calendar

79
00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.360
if we could fit it in. But he does wind

80
00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.199
up losing the lawsuit, but ends up becoming close friends

81
00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.439
with William Freakin after the fact and Eric. The irony

82
00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:53.439
here is that William Peterson stars in To Live and

83
00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:56.160
Die in La, and then a year later he stars

84
00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:57.680
at Manhunter for Michael Mann.

85
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:06.519
And Michael Mann a very distinguished history, which uh I

86
00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.839
heard when I do my research for the podcast. I

87
00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:12.240
actually go to other podcasts and I listened to what

88
00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:18.600
they say. And there was a debate about heat versus collateral.

89
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.040
Okay, that collateral.

90
00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.839
Was heat in a taxi cab.

91
00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.040
Interesting and I've you know that that may tie into

92
00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.319
something I'm gonna talk about later, but I'm gonna kick

93
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.199
it down the road for now. More on Michael mannon

94
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:41.439
known for giving a thumbs up when he feels which

95
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.079
take is the one, And I gotta tell you there's

96
00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:49.040
some great behind the scenes stuff on Collateral. Jimmy Fox

97
00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.639
talks about how he was just sweating it. He's putting

98
00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.680
in all this effort and he's just waiting. He's like

99
00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.600
the corner of his eye, he's looking at Michael Man

100
00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:59.759
hoping for that thumbs up, and he said, when you

101
00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:04.439
get it, it's just a relief just cascades over you.

102
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:07.319
I like when directors have like their own little language,

103
00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.399
like I know Clint doesn't. He never yells cut, he

104
00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.000
just says enough of that shit. I just I like

105
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.160
when their personality kind of leads into their their their

106
00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:19.360
style of working. All right, I'm gonna do this. I

107
00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.920
don't typically do this, but a little fun thing here

108
00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:28.600
Michael Mann's top ten favorite films. Eric, I look at

109
00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.519
the list. I know you've seen, got it. You have

110
00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:32.879
to have a least seen half of them. I know

111
00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.480
I have. There's a couple on here that I now

112
00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:38.839
want to see based on his recommendation. But here's Michael

113
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:47.759
Mann's top ten favorite films. Apocalypse Now, Avatar, Battleship, Tomentican, Beautiful,

114
00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:56.519
Citizen Kane, Doctor Strangelove, My Darling, Clementine, The Passion of Joan, Arc,

115
00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:02.160
Raging Bull, and last, but certain not least, The Wild Bunch.

116
00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.439
That's a it's a pretty impressive list. I gotta be honest.

117
00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.279
Okay, So that's Michael Mann's like favorite film list.

118
00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:12.040
That's if you ask Michael Mann, what's your top ten

119
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:15.040
favorite movies, that's the ten that he's gonna give you.

120
00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.480
So damn, Jeff, you went down the rabbit hole on

121
00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:20.959
this one. I did not know that.

122
00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:26.519
Yeah, quote from Michael Mann, and he's talking about seeing

123
00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.560
movies in the cinema. And I know this is an

124
00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.120
ongoing debate lately ever since COVID, Like you know, theater,

125
00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:34.879
there's a lot of theaters that are struggling to just

126
00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:41.279
stay open. Michael Mann says, quote a sixty five foot

127
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.200
wide screen and five hundred people reacting to the movie.

128
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.519
There is nothing like that experience. I'm inclined to agree

129
00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:53.600
with him. When you see the right movie in a

130
00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:59.000
packed house and you get that that communal experience where

131
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.399
you're you're all gas being at the same thrill, you're

132
00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.840
all cheering for the same hero, you're all laughing at

133
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:11.799
the same joke. That is a wonderful experience, especially when

134
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:15.120
you're with a crowd that's there to experience the film.

135
00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.679
And I'm not talking about people on their cell phones

136
00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.360
or people talking or leaning.

137
00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.200
Oh I hate that.

138
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.559
You have a great a great audience and you're involved

139
00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.519
in that. I agree with him, there's nothing like that.

140
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.399
It's it's it's a it's a wonderful experience.

141
00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:34.000
And and to tie in with our conversation tonight about

142
00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.519
Tom Cruise and Collateral, the first film I ever saw

143
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:42.080
in the theater after COVID was Top Gun, Maverick, There

144
00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.080
you go, Imax.

145
00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.559
Well, Tom Cruise was was credited with saving the movie

146
00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.480
cinema industry, and you know, with with Maverick, and I

147
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.440
agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. Let's talk

148
00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:59.559
a little bit about collateral, Eric. I know there's people

149
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.519
out there that have not seen this one, and I

150
00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:05.000
know there's people out there that have seen it, but

151
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:08.600
it's probably been a while and maybe need a refresher.

152
00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:12.879
So in your own words, what's Collateral about.

153
00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.240
It's funny that you should ask that, because I've watched

154
00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.720
this film several times, and just last evening I was

155
00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.519
with my girlfriend Tina, who was a few years under

156
00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.080
the meat, who had never seen it, and I wanted

157
00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.679
to have a last minute rewatch, and she was glued

158
00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:38.240
to the screen. It is about a disassociated kind of

159
00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.559
sociopath who is a hitman for money, who is in

160
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:47.000
Los Angeles for the evening to complete a series of jobs,

161
00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.840
and he hires a cab driver, an unsuspecting cab driver

162
00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.679
to drive him around throughout the evening while he commits

163
00:10:55.720 --> 00:11:01.080
these crimes, and none would be the wiser until everything

164
00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:05.039
flies off the rails in the first twenty minutes of

165
00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:12.879
the film. It is a psychological thriller but also an

166
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.000
action thriller, but not in the way that you would

167
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.639
think Tom Cruise jumping off of buildings, diving out of planes.

168
00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:28.480
He plays a very thoughtful, down to earth manipulative I'm

169
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.840
looking out for every aspect of what is going on character,

170
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.159
and you never expect what's coming in the next scene

171
00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:40.919
until it comes. And then the very first time I

172
00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.600
saw this, I saw this in the theater and I

173
00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:46.600
never saw what came at the end until it came

174
00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:53.519
at the end. If you like a good mystery without crazy,

175
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:58.200
over the top explosions and car chases, then I think

176
00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.799
this is a good film for you. If you like

177
00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:03.200
a go to assassination movie, and again we're talking about

178
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:09.360
like Jean Reno, the Professional fem Nikita, even Terminator, I

179
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.399
think this is a film for you. It's two thousand

180
00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:16.159
and four, it's an older film, but you really should

181
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:17.679
look it up. I think it's good.

182
00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.559
This is This is a darker film for Cruise. He's

183
00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:27.399
paying he's not playing the hero. He made no mistake,

184
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.919
he's the villain. But he has got so much charisma

185
00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:34.679
and he has so much passion you have to follow him.

186
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.000
Like throughout throughout the movie, you're like, you're rooting for

187
00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:42.399
Jimmy Fox obviously, but there's times I'm rooting for Tom Cruise.

188
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:43.720
I'm rooting against Joel Fox.

189
00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.440
Jeff, I agree with you. And if I could go

190
00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.039
back and pretend that I never saw this movie before

191
00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.399
and I was watching it for the first time, I

192
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.360
would actually start to sympathize with Tom Cruise. I would

193
00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.159
sympathize with Vincent. I would sympathize with what he was

194
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.480
doing because he was hired to do a job, and

195
00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.200
let's face it, the people that he was going after

196
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.960
were probably not the best, you know, people in the world.

197
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:16.200
But then he shoots Mark Ruffalo Detective Fanning, and then

198
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.600
you have to say, oh, man, I.

199
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:21.279
Was just you have to choose a side.

200
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.039
I was just rooting for you, Tom, and then you

201
00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:25.320
shot a cop.

202
00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.000
Yeah you did. We talked about the opening and you know,

203
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.559
like you said, it goes off the rails. Everything would

204
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.559
have been fine, except the first guy he goes after

205
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.879
takes a two story header out the window, lands on

206
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:38.559
top of the cab.

207
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:39.360
Yep.

208
00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.120
And now these guys are forced to work together transparently,

209
00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:47.200
and that's YEP. I think this movie. Think about this.

210
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:52.600
If Jamie Fox is driving him along none the wiser

211
00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:55.720
through like even half this movie, it's gonna play more

212
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.000
like a Hitchcock film where we the audience know the danger,

213
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.000
we know the suspense, know what's wrong, but the character

214
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.120
that we're riding along with has no clue, and so

215
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:10.120
we're just it's it creates tension, right, and that would

216
00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.840
have worked great. But the fact that Jamie Fox his

217
00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.159
eyes are opened his character Max, his eyes are opened

218
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.919
immediately to what his situation is. Now it becomes a

219
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.840
cat and mouse thriller, and it's like how long can

220
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:27.600
can Max last? How long before he gets away? How

221
00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:29.919
long before he takes a stand?

222
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.200
Right?

223
00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:32.799
So I love the dynamic that these two guys have.

224
00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.720
And speaking of dynamic, before we get too far away

225
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:40.639
from it, I'm gonna ask you your opinion. Eric film opens,

226
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:45.320
Tom Cruise's Vincent character in the Airport meets up with

227
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.600
what has to be Jason Statham's Frank character from two

228
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.200
thousand and twos of The Transporter. Do you believe that

229
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.360
we've got a little bit of a cross pollination here,

230
00:14:57.399 --> 00:14:59.240
because if you ask the films, if you ask that

231
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.080
film's director, Lewis Leterrier, he'll tell you that he's Stathan's

232
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.039
playing Frank. What do you think your thoughts?

233
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.279
I've heard this rumor and Michael Mann will argue differently.

234
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.399
But when you look at Jason Stepham and the way

235
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:15.720
he acts and the way he speaks, and the way

236
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.320
he stands, the way he's dressed, the way he's dressed,

237
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.559
and how brief the interaction is they bump into each other,

238
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.639
they drop the briefcase. Oh sorry, mate, let me get

239
00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:32.240
that for you and I. In contrary to a lot

240
00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:36.279
of Internet opinion, I think that, yes, that Collateral and

241
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:39.519
Transporter exist in the same universe.

242
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:44.320
I'm calling it Jason Statham's Frank character. This is two

243
00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.679
thousand and two. I'm sorry, this is two thousand and four.

244
00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:48.639
I think he's in town.

245
00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.799
But this is way after that character.

246
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.919
This is two years. Yeah, it's two years after the Transporter, right,

247
00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:57.159
I think. But after you think off all the things

248
00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.720
that happen in the Transporter, I think maybe he's he's

249
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.000
in a just to lay low.

250
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:05.440
Absolutely, yeah, he's done with his life. He's just basically

251
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:10.320
a facilitator between bad guys. He's not driving a car,

252
00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.799
he's dropping briefcases. But no, I agree with you. I

253
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:14.600
think they exist him the same one like it.

254
00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.039
It's fun, you know, I think fun. It's a fun thing.

255
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.240
We're gonna take a quick break and when we get back,

256
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:26.799
we're gonna talk a little bit about the cast. Welcome back.

257
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:30.320
Eric Dirth from the Docking Base seventy seven podcast is

258
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:36.320
with us today discussing Michael Mann's collateral. So Tom Cruise

259
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:41.559
as Vincent, he is regularly meeting with Michael Mann before

260
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:44.799
shooting to flesh out the character's background. And when I

261
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:48.480
say flesh out the characters background, Eric, he like Tom

262
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.159
Cruise is, he's all smiles as he's sharing this story,

263
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.799
and he's he's talking about how Michael Man is excited

264
00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.279
to tell him all about what Vincent was like at

265
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:02.879
age eleven. He's his silver fox look, the clothes, the

266
00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.799
gray hair, that sculpted scruff, five o'clock shadow, scruff he's got.

267
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.880
Michael Mann knows every inch of this character. He knows

268
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.319
every moment in the character's life. And they're just having conversations.

269
00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.720
They're meeting up here and there, having conversations building this

270
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.559
man from the inside out. And I love that kind

271
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.400
of commitment to a role because we know Tom Cruise

272
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.200
is no stranger to you know, if you're gonna be

273
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:31.480
in a you know, if you're gonna do top gun Maverick, Well,

274
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.640
let's learn how to fly at F fourteen. If you're gonna,

275
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:37.519
you know, be Ethan Hunt, Let's learn how to mountain

276
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.319
climb and jump off buildings. He the guy commits, right,

277
00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.240
we know that. Prepping for this role, he spends three

278
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:49.319
months working with a retired SAS soldier, learning close quarter combat,

279
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:53.519
learning firearms. And this one blows my mind. I don't

280
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:54.759
know if you know this one. Eric, you did a

281
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.119
lot of I know you did a lot of research,

282
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.319
and you're you're a big fan of this movie.

283
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.640
You're about to say the UPS Driver.

284
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.319
Yeah, okay, so FedEx, so tell this story? Was you

285
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:04.119
know the story?

286
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.160
Tell it? Yeah? So Michael Mann wanted Tom Cruise to

287
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.119
learn how to be the every guy, the every man

288
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:16.440
to blend into a situation invisible, right, be invisible? So

289
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.359
they I believe it was the UPS because I saw

290
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.480
the documentary and he's in the brown outfit. And so

291
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.640
for two weeks, Tom Cruise literally went Undercrever as a

292
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.160
UPS delivery driver.

293
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.279
Was he wearing brown? He was wearing the brown uniform.

294
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.519
He was wearing the brown nif. He goes under Trever

295
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.200
as a delivery driver and only about two or three

296
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.200
people that he ever delivered a package to knew who

297
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.319
he was. But for three weeks he worked as a

298
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:48.720
delivery driver.

299
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.160
Eric, how many people are opening the door to get

300
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:58.359
a package? No, most people don't do that, But this

301
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.039
is two thousand, this is like early two thousand. How

302
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.119
many people are walking past him as he comes up

303
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:06.480
to the yard or the door. How many people are

304
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.440
signing that little that little electronic gizmo and then closing

305
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.519
the door thinking, damn, that guy kind of looks like

306
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.559
Tom Cruise. I mean, obviously it's not Tom Cruise, but

307
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.279
that guy looks like Tom Cruise. Like, how many people

308
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:19.240
had that thought?

309
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.240
You gotta wonder from from what I heard, he did

310
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.960
more business delivery than personal delivery. He was delivering the

311
00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.799
businesses in and out. Nobody pays him a bit of attention.

312
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:35.039
It's amazing, It's absolutely amazing. Yeah, and this is just

313
00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.160
it's it's a fun role. This is one of my

314
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.640
favorite Tom Cruise roles. Honestly, I'm glad. I'm glad that

315
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.920
you you you you suggested this one because he just

316
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.400
never plays the bad guy. No, he does, rarely, Rarely

317
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:47.240
he plays the bad guy.

318
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:51.440
He's played it and correct me if I'm wrong. But

319
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.160
I think he's played the quote unquote villain three times

320
00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.000
Taps Interview with a Vampire, which you could argue whether

321
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.640
or not he was the villain. He's in that movie

322
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.799
in Taps he was the villain. Yeah, And interestingly enough,

323
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:13.240
he's only died in two movies, tap Well and Collateral.

324
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:15.599
Yeah. Well, you know, if you, if you, if you're

325
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.440
gonna go credit, because if you're going uncredited, let's not forget.

326
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.200
He was one of the Murphy Men and young Guns.

327
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:21.599
Oh, yes he was.

328
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.720
He fell off Charlie. Charlie shoots him, he falls off

329
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.039
the roof.

330
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.359
Yeah, all right, so he died three times.

331
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:34.440
But but it's rare. And I'll argue this is the

332
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.519
best Tom Cruise death scene in a movie.

333
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.319
We'll get it's one of the best death scenes in

334
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:41.039
any movie.

335
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:43.640
Okay, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. So

336
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:48.599
Jamie Fox playing Max. Now Tom Cruise is off doing

337
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.920
close quarter combat weapons training. Michael Mann spending just the

338
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.599
same amount of time with with Jamie Fox, only they

339
00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.680
are on the race track because he's got Jamie in

340
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.839
a Ford Crown Victoria learning the weight in the field

341
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.119
of the car doing maneuverability doing and we're talking like

342
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.640
high speed maneuverability, you know. And again back to the

343
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.680
some of the behind the scenes stuff, seeing Jamie Fox

344
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.480
dressed like Cold Trickle from Days of Thunder. He's got

345
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.200
the helmet on, he's got the he's got the suit,

346
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.079
you know, the the uniform, the NASCAR stuff, and then

347
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.440
he hops in this beat up Crown Victoria, you know,

348
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.319
which is gonna be what what they use for the

349
00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:29.319
cabs in this field in this film. But he is

350
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:31.079
tearing it up on the racetrack and he's having a

351
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:35.480
he's having a lot of fun. He's moonlighting with real

352
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.920
cab drivers to better understand their lifestyle, their work, what

353
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.799
guys that you know work the graveyard shift are all about.

354
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.559
And it pays off. He's nominated for Best Supporting Actor

355
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.640
at the seventy seventh Academy Awards, loses to Morgan Freeman,

356
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.519
who won for a Million Dollar Baby. But we're not

357
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.640
gonna feel bad for Jamie Fox because later that night

358
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.160
he wins Best Actor for Ray. So heck of a night,

359
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:04.839
you know, for for Jimmy Fox. Uh, tell me, tell me,

360
00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:07.680
tell me about tell me about Max, because you're rooting

361
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.880
for him half through most.

362
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:13.240
Of it, right in the beginning. I don't know that

363
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.599
I was rooting for him in the beginning, because he

364
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.880
has this idea Island Limo. It's gonna be the best Limo,

365
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.000
the cool ride. You're gonna want to get in, You're

366
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.200
never gonna want to get out. I gotta get my

367
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:26.720
leases up, I gotta get the benz is off, you know.

368
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:32.039
And and Vincent from the very beginning that he gets

369
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.119
in that cab, he's sizing Max up. He says, Oh, well,

370
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.279
how long you've been doing this all? It is just temporary, man,

371
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.920
It's just temporary til I get my benses off leases.

372
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.839
How long you've been doing this? Twelve years? So this

373
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.440
is this is kind of an every man you can

374
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.559
there are so many people that can relate to Max.

375
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.759
There are very few people, I hope, very few people

376
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.880
that could relate to Vincent, But everybody can late to Max.

377
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:04.559
You've got a dream, You've got an idea. And even

378
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.799
Vincent tells him, he's like, you know, one day you

379
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:12.000
wake up and you're old and it never happened. Max

380
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.559
is a guy who's incredibly smart. From the very beginning

381
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.559
of the film, when Jada Pinkett Smith comes into that

382
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.519
cab and he immediately sizes her up in thirty seconds.

383
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.880
You're an attorney. You know, you've got the pinstripe suit.

384
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.039
It's not bold, but it's not subtle. And he's like,

385
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.480
and you're bad of bout data. I mean, he he

386
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:36.680
is a smart guy.

387
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:39.640
He's worldly. He knows he knows style, he knows fashion.

388
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:43.240
If he could just get off his ass and get

389
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.559
a little bit of money, he could be running the

390
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:47.480
cab company.

391
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.519
I think you're right. A lot of people can identify

392
00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:54.000
with Max, but not in the way they want to

393
00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:57.799
identify with him, because he he's a procrastinator. He is

394
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.160
you know, he he's gonna rather than act, he's gonna,

395
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.720
he's gonna, he's gonna react. And that's that's one of

396
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:09.160
the things that I I think helps his character because

397
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.279
his character has it goes to a little bit of

398
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.880
growth here, he's gonna become you know, he's better for

399
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:15.039
having had Vincent.

400
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:20.480
We have to read yeah, oh yeah, he he Vincent

401
00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:24.519
pushes him over the edge in a good way. Yeah.

402
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.400
He Vincent challenges him and makes him a better individual,

403
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:32.799
not just you know, at at going after what you want,

404
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:35.119
but just being a better son, being a better person,

405
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:37.960
you know, And we'll get we'll get into that. But uh,

406
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.559
you mentioned Jada Pinkett Smith. She's playing the attorney Annie.

407
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.160
Real quick before we talk about her. We always, we

408
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.359
always have the suspension of disbelief in a in a film.

409
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.000
You have to, you have to, you have to give,

410
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.160
you have to, you have to compromise on some things.

411
00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:03.319
How are you with the unbelievable coincidence that his fare

412
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:10.279
is the last name on Vincent's hit list moments before

413
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.720
Vincent approaches his cab, I mean, are you okay with it?

414
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:16.200
Do you look past it?

415
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.799
I actually don't think it's fate or a lot of people.

416
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:28.039
I've heard stories online that where they say Vincent targeted

417
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:32.440
Max because Annie was his last fare and he was

418
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:35.880
going to try to get inside information. I don't think

419
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:40.119
Vincent knew who his targets were until they each came

420
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:44.880
up on his pad. And there's a scene where he's

421
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:49.680
coming down the escalator as Annie is coming in the building,

422
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.200
and she's coming and they pass and they never even

423
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:56.440
look at each other. He didn't know anything about her.

424
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.640
But I'm not buying that theory because he even leans

425
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:05.400
in to you know, you know, checking well now I'm talking.

426
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:07.519
Even before that, he leans in, you know, to see

427
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:09.720
like is this cab is it on is you know,

428
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.200
is he is he on duty? Max is kind of

429
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:16.480
in his own world. He's you know, he's not hearing

430
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.000
and Vince Vincent tumkers is. Vincent starts to walk away.

431
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:23.640
There's there's a line of cabs. He's gonna go get

432
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.880
the other one and well, hey, well I'm sorry, I'm

433
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.559
sorry I heard I did hear you? Oh yeah, come on,

434
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.440
come on. You know. So the idea that he's he's

435
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:32.480
targeting Max, I.

436
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.920
Don't believe that for a minute. But a minute. The

437
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:39.200
minute Vincent gets in that cab, he's sizing Max up.

438
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.920
He's asking, is this your cab? How much do you

439
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.480
pull down a night? Do you share this with the

440
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.599
day driver? Blah blah blah. I have some other theories

441
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:55.279
that I don't know if we're actually planned in the film,

442
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:00.200
but I have some theories about a background plot where

443
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.720
Mark Ruffalo's character said, yeah up, then Oakland, we had

444
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.839
the same thing. A cabby went around all night and

445
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.359
shot a bunch of people and then shot himself. You remember,

446
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:16.519
do you remember that background plot. No, Mark Ruffalo's character

447
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.759
Detective fan Oh.

448
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.039
Wait you're talking Wait, I thought youre talking about a

449
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:19.599
different movie.

450
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:24.119
Okay, No, in this movie, in this character, Detective Fanning

451
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:28.799
knew of another case that happened up north where a

452
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.480
cab driver supposedly drove around and shot five people and

453
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:37.000
then killed himself, and they always thought another person was

454
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.359
in the cab. So I have a little bit of

455
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:41.000
a theory about that. We can come back to you

456
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:41.880
later at the end. Yah.

457
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.839
Yeah, So I get yeah, because uh, you know, I

458
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.640
want to move us along. But there, you know, just

459
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.880
back to Jada Pikett Smith and then you know two

460
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:55.039
other people I want to briefly touch upon again. It's

461
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.440
it's the the preparation that Michael Mann puts into his films.

462
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.319
Even someone like Jada Pinkett Smith's character, who has a

463
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:06.599
very limited amount of screen time, you know, she makes

464
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.160
a really she has to make a really good impression

465
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:13.319
for us because we were with her for five minutes

466
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.039
and then the whole movie happens, and then she shows

467
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:19.200
up in the last ten minutes. So we have to

468
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.240
identify with her, we have to like her, we have

469
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:24.960
to appreciate her. He has her meet a female attorney

470
00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:28.000
who's going to help her build the character and give

471
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.720
her the confidence even the story, the story that she

472
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:34.440
mentions where she's like, I get sick to my stomach

473
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.599
and i feel like I'm going to fail. And I'm

474
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:39.279
still excited about, you know, walking into the courtroom. But

475
00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:44.480
I've got all these this anxiety that's real stuff that

476
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.359
this other attorney told her. This is how she copes

477
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.319
with it. He also has her spend the day with

478
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:57.960
an older couple. That man tells her what ideally have

479
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:01.160
been her character's parents, just to find out what kind

480
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:04.279
of how how Annie was raised and how what kind

481
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.200
of woman she is and how you know, what kind

482
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.559
of value she was taught. This is this is like

483
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:12.400
next level prep. And I'll be honest, like, just to

484
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.920
hear all the actors talk about this stuff. They're talking

485
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:16.920
about with the biggest smiles on their faces, and they're

486
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.799
excited to share these stories. And I don't think that

487
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:23.680
happens enough on uh, in the in the filmmaking process nowadays.

488
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:27.759
Well, to talk about background character information, there are some

489
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.839
actors and the directors will give them the background and

490
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:33.279
says this is the reason why your character does this

491
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.519
and they say, you know what, I want to paycheck,

492
00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:39.920
I'll hit my mark whatever. But there's also more background

493
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.680
with Tom Cruise. Michael Mann gave Tom Cruise Vincent's background.

494
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.359
There's a there's a scene in the cab where Max

495
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.440
and Vincent are talking about Vincent's father and he said, oh,

496
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.119
I killed him, and then he said no, he wasn't around.

497
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:58.000
He was an absentee father. He drank and he died

498
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:00.559
of liver disease and I never really he knew him,

499
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:07.279
which is incredibly close to actually Tom Cruise's background. He

500
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:10.680
didn't really know his father. He moved around a lot.

501
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.319
You know. Tom Cruise is sort of a Cincinnati, Ohio native,

502
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.119
and he didn't know his father. There was a strange

503
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.359
relationship there, and I wonder if maybe Michael Mann didn't

504
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.440
build on that to give Tom Cruise something to channel

505
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.519
while he was playing Vince. I think he was kidding

506
00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:31.839
when he told Match that he killed his father, but

507
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.279
I actually believe him when he said he died of

508
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.440
liver disease and he didn't care. But he's always looking

509
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:39.720
for his dad's approval.

510
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.400
You mentioned Mark Ruffalo as Detective Fanning. So Val Kilmer

511
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.359
is cast in the role. You know, he worked with

512
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.480
Man on Heat, but then he dropped out to work

513
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.440
with Oliver Stone on Alexander, and this leaves the role

514
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.160
open for Mark Ruffalo. So here's here's my here's my uh,

515
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.559
here's my thought. First off, hot my hot take Ruffalo

516
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:13.799
bit he'd bit of an overactor, hotter take not the

517
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:17.240
best Bruce Banner Hulk and uh, you know, I but

518
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:19.119
I'm gonna say this, you know, because I'm not down

519
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:23.240
on Mark Ruffalo. This is my favorite Mark Ruffalo performance

520
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:28.599
because he always plays like a dopey, you know, smart

521
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.759
but not altogether guy. And this is a slick, mean

522
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.200
looking Mark Ruffalo. He's got the hair slick back, he's

523
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.319
in the leather jacket, he's got the ear ring. Yeah,

524
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:42.480
he's he is the cool police detective. He's the cool cop.

525
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:44.680
And you have to remember this is my a Michael

526
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:48.599
Man movie, so every cop is gonna be super cool, right,

527
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:54.119
I mean, Michael Mann cops have this. I would say

528
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:59.119
that they're ambiguously good because obviously they're good guys. They're

529
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.519
they're you know, they're on the side of the law.

530
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.839
They're they're chasing down the bad guys, but they're also

531
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:10.960
flawed individuals and they make questionable judge decisions. You know,

532
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:14.559
they're not the nicest guys, but they're damn if they're

533
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.359
not the cool like some of the coolest guys, Like

534
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:20.160
you know, whether it's whether it's Mark Ruffalo and Pete

535
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:24.000
Berg in this movie, or it's it's al Pacino uh

536
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:28.000
and Heat with his crew, or or William Peterson and Manhunter.

537
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:32.240
Like the cops are always super cool, Miami Vice obviously,

538
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.359
Michael Man. You know, the cops are always really cool.

539
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:41.000
They're always slick, and Mark Ruffalo is anything if not

540
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.359
the slickest in this movie.

541
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:46.119
He's the one that actually figures out the whole scheme.

542
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:48.680
He's the one that realizes that Max is just a

543
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.880
patsy and the FBI is involved, and it's a huge

544
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:01.920
police investigation with pietersres Cortes and it's Fanning. It's it's

545
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:06.720
Mark Ruffalo who figures out this poor Cabby is is

546
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:07.720
gonna end.

547
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.480
Up dead when when he when Ruffalo's character is in

548
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.720
the morgue, he's looking at the bodies, Yeah, the you

549
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:17.440
know the corners, like, hey, I think we got a

550
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:20.480
same guy. Look this guy's double taps in their mouth

551
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:22.359
is Sam Beek Mozambia.

552
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:22.640
Yeah.

553
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:27.079
I love when cops are kind of putting it all together.

554
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:29.960
You know, they're having the epiphany and then they gotta

555
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.319
they got a clue in the You're they're you're always

556
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:34.480
gonna wake up your your partner. You know what time

557
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:37.640
it is. It's you know, Mark Ruffalo. He's the cop

558
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.200
that you know. He's he's Pacino and he he's never sleeping.

559
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:41.759
It's it's three o'clock in the morning, and he's on

560
00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:44.039
the he's on the scene. And then he's got the

561
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:49.240
partner who's always gonna be at home, family man, dragging him,

562
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.160
dragging his ass out of bed. I love when cops

563
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:55.000
are putting together Ruffalo. Like I said, I I might

564
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:58.240
not love everything he does, but I think he's sensational

565
00:33:58.720 --> 00:33:59.359
in this film.

566
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:03.880
I absolutely agree with you one hundred percent, Jeff. I

567
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:11.119
think that he played that character who had been invested

568
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:16.880
in these witnesses. He cultivated those people. They were his cis.

569
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.519
He knew what was going on, and the minute one

570
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.639
or two of them showed up dead, he knew exactly

571
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:26.960
what was happening before anybody else did. And nobody would

572
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.679
listen to him. He's the smart guy in the room

573
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:31.039
that nobody else listened to.

574
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.559
Yeah, one more character I want to briefly talk about.

575
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.559
You name dropped the character already talking about an established

576
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.760
actor who's got critical acclaim and an Oscar nomination for

577
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.360
Best Actor for two thousands before Nightfalls, and yet he's

578
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:55.000
virtually unknown in Hollywood at this time. JAVIERD. Bartam playing

579
00:34:55.079 --> 00:35:01.039
the crime lord Felix, making his Hollywood debut with the

580
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.559
briefest of appearances in this film. He's the guy that

581
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:09.119
hires Tom Cruise as Vincent. Yeah, and uh, you know,

582
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:11.599
I just will I'm gonna put a pin in him

583
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:13.760
because there his scene. I definitely want to talk about

584
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.599
when we when we're talking about notable scenes here in

585
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:19.920
a few minutes. But I gotta be honest, it's been

586
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:24.199
been a while since I've seen this movie, and we've

587
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:27.000
kind of been up on Harvey R. Bartam lately. You know,

588
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.599
we we did our Patreon we did a ten for

589
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:32.639
two on No Country for Old Men. You know, he's

590
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:34.840
he's kind of having a moment lately. He's he's he's

591
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:37.800
a well known established actor. Now Hollywood knows him and

592
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.920
to see him as such a small role in a

593
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.239
two thousand and four Michael Mann movie really surprised me.

594
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.000
Well, there's a saying there are no small roles, only

595
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.599
small actors, and he is not a small actor.

596
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:53.760
I like that.

597
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:54.679
I like that.

598
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:01.000
So a little bit of background about Collateral. Screenwriter Stuart

599
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.039
Beatty came up with the idea for the film after

600
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.800
taking a taxi cab home from the airport.

601
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:12.119
You know this, Eric, Yeah, in Sydney, Australia. He Stuart

602
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:16.719
Beatty when taking a flight home in Australia. He was

603
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.119
in the back of a taxi cab and he was

604
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:24.000
coming home from the Sydney airport and he just had

605
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:28.320
this random thought, Wow, I could be a maniac. I

606
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.679
could be a serial killer. I could be a crazy

607
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.079
person and the driver in front of me would never know.

608
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:41.000
And so he started writing this film. But initially the

609
00:36:41.239 --> 00:36:45.639
pitch that he came up with wasn't called Collateral. I

610
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:49.960
think he wanted to call it The Last Domino.

611
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.920
Okay, yeah, two page treatment, right, yeah, And if we're

612
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:55.159
going to go back to casting.

613
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:59.239
When he originally came up with this idea, he wanted

614
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:06.079
Russell Crowe to be Vincent and here's the big surprise.

615
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.960
Adam Sandler to be Max.

616
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.559
So he's got this two page treatment.

617
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:14.360
Yeah.

618
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:18.320
He gives it to producer Julie Richardson, who then shares

619
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:21.840
it with Frank Drebant because she's basically shopping for movies

620
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.079
for Frank Dearbat to direct. They love it. They set

621
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.320
up a pitch meeting at HBO. HBO says no thanks,

622
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:32.599
so it gets bought by DreamWorks, where it collects dust

623
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.840
for three years. Now. You were talking about Russell Crowe

624
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.239
and Adam Sandler. This is at a time when Mimi

625
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:44.719
Letter is attached to direct it, and Russell Crowe is

626
00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:48.599
loving the script, but he's also loving the idea of

627
00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:51.880
his buddy Michael Mann directing it because they had worked

628
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.920
up together on The Insider. So he brings Michael Mann

629
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.679
on board. The production gets delayed several times. Russell Crowe says,

630
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.119
all right, I'm out, Like you know, I can't I

631
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.440
can't wait. He moves on. So Man has been wanting

632
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.239
to work with Tom Cruise. He calls Tom Cruise in

633
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.880
and while this is happening, Sandler drops out because he's

634
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.320
got a scheduling conflict with the movie Spanglish. So Jamie

635
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:18.199
Fox takes the role, who is a Michael Man favorite.

636
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:19.840
He loves him from his in Living.

637
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:23.320
Color days Ali, I think, right, yeah, and he worked.

638
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:25.559
Yeah, he he like you know he he discovers him

639
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:27.920
on in Living Color. He thinks he's a great, great actor,

640
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.039
He's got great timing. He brings him in to Ali,

641
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:34.280
but he's always in his his willhouse. He's always thinking

642
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.039
how can I how can I work with Jamie again?

643
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:39.360
And it's it's a better film for this. I'm not

644
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:41.559
saying like Russell Crow would have been a great vincent,

645
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:44.280
but this is the Tom Cruise role that we've been

646
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.920
waiting for, So I'm kind of glad how it all

647
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.079
worked out. Moving on the visuals in this movie, the

648
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.199
look I mean this the city is a character and Eric,

649
00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:55.840
I don't know how much time you've spent in Los Angeles,

650
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.519
but they really capture that that night life, that La

651
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:01.400
night scene I have.

652
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:06.480
I have been out in La a few times, mostly

653
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:12.199
up North Van Nuys where ILM started, but yeah, I

654
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:15.079
spent some time downtown. I've been to the Mayan Club

655
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.679
where incidentally they filmed The Bodyguard.

656
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.719
We talked about that with these plays yeah. Yeah. So

657
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.920
the look of this film is thanks to the Viper

658
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:31.119
film Stream high Definition camera, which Man elected to use.

659
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:33.559
And it's the first time it's using a major motion

660
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:39.320
picture digital Yep, it's a digital camera. And you know,

661
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:41.599
we're used to it now. You know, it's been twenty

662
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:46.199
plus years. We know that film grain look is gone, right,

663
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.440
but this was the first movie to give us, you know,

664
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:51.239
the kind of usher in this digital era.

665
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.599
And one of the things that Michael Mann did when

666
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:57.280
he was filming this, when he was scouting locations is

667
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.599
he didn't want to use He didn't want to be cliched.

668
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.000
He didn't want to go to a sunsets trip. He

669
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.119
didn't want to go to Rodeo Drive, you know, he

670
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.760
didn't want to do all those places. So he went

671
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:10.920
to Korea Town. He went to those places that nobody

672
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:15.280
ever films in Los Angeles. And when you listen to

673
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.679
the dialogue when Max gets pulled over after he hits

674
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.320
the deer, he's like, yeah, I was over on Slager.

675
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.440
He's like, oh, a South central deer and yeah. You

676
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:28.440
listen to all those references when he's telling Annie in

677
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:30.840
the beginning, I'll I'll take the four to ten of

678
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.039
the way. That's all real. I mean, he Michael mal he,

679
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:39.679
Michael Mann researched that and every street name that he

680
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.880
mentions in this film is legit that would match up

681
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.360
to what's going on in the movie. That's that's his

682
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:46.320
commitment to that.

683
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.719
Yeah. Well, I mean, and you know, I've got friends

684
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:51.000
that live in Los Angeles, and even talking with them,

685
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.679
they're like, you know, they found themselves arguing like, well,

686
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.159
hold on, hold on, she's right and he's right. That's

687
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:58.360
that's the road to take. No, no, no, Max is right.

688
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.960
That's they'll get you there fast. That It's a little

689
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:06.679
details they mean so much for a film like this. Uh, Eric,

690
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.320
let's talk. I want to I want to talk about

691
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:11.559
a couple of scenes. I'm gonna ask you what you

692
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:16.159
feel is the the uh, the pivotal moment, if you will.

693
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:23.480
So first off, let's talk our first look at at

694
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.440
understanding that you know what, Vincent might be the bad guy,

695
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:30.840
but we're on his side. He wins us over with uh.

696
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.559
I'm talking about the scene where Vincent defends Max against

697
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:37.400
Max's boss, the uh stick this yellow cab with your

698
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:41.679
fat ass moment, so you know, they get pulled over

699
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:43.920
by the police. The police report it, then they get

700
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.199
called over to you know, something a little more pressing.

701
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.199
They report it to the the cab company. His boss

702
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.920
is lighting him up on the radio. You're big, you're

703
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.320
gonna pay for this, You're I'm I'm docking your paycheck,

704
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.159
I'm doing this, and he's just oh, you know, and

705
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:03.400
it's vincent that that just takes command of the situation.

706
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:07.159
He grabs the radio and threatens the boss and he's like,

707
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.199
who is this and he you know, he rattles off

708
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:11.280
like you know, he's the district attorney, blah blah blah.

709
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:12.679
He's going to have him for this, He's gonna have

710
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.079
him for that. Then I was like, who wha, whoa,

711
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.639
whoa wa what Let's let's take it easy. Let's take

712
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.480
it easy. We don't need to do this. And then

713
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:20.760
he he empowers Max to stand up to his boss.

714
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:22.840
You know, he's and like he's like, they're off, Mike.

715
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:25.079
He's like, tell him, tell him he can stick this.

716
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.079
This yellow cap up was fat ass. If you if

717
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:29.039
he ever tries this shit again with you, oh yeah,

718
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.400
And you know, he's coaching Max on how to stand

719
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:35.039
up for himself. And I immediately am a fan of

720
00:42:35.079 --> 00:42:36.320
Vincent in this moment. How about you?

721
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.159
I didn't like that. Everybody, no matter what job you have,

722
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:48.559
everybody has always had that little fantasy about telling their

723
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:52.840
boss what to do with their job. And it was

724
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.639
so gratifying, even though it was under duress, where he said,

725
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.360
and now tell him the next time you pool that

726
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:03.239
you can shove that yellow cab up his fat ass.

727
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:06.320
It was it was brilliant. I that was one of

728
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:10.440
my favorite scenes. I have one other one and it's

729
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.800
my favorite scene that maybe makes me out to be

730
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.079
a little of a sociopath.

731
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:20.320
But okay, well let's see. Let's see we might we

732
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.840
might get it here. If I don't get it, I

733
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.840
want you to bring it up. But moving on. Here's

734
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.760
here's another pro Vincent moment. But it's the first time

735
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:33.599
I'm turning on Max and I'm gonna call this the

736
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:36.519
flower scene. He has no choice, he's got to go

737
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:40.159
to the hospital visit his mom. Max, that is Tom

738
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.679
Cruise ain't going nowhere. So they're walking in. Tom Vincent

739
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:47.639
stops at the gift shop says, you know, flowers, and

740
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.079
Max is like, she don't care about that. It's a

741
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:53.199
waste of money, and he has this moment where he's like, hey,

742
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:56.239
she she carried you in the womb for nine months

743
00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:00.559
by the flowers, you know, and even you know, and

744
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:03.199
granted Max was right because she they get up there

745
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:04.159
and she's like, what am I supposed to do with

746
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.880
these flowers? He's like, I told you see, and he

747
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.000
bought them. But then she has it, she's singing a

748
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:13.679
different tune. But the fact that Vincent cares enough to

749
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:18.840
coach Max on the on the importance of showing his

750
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.880
mother respect, showing his mother love and making a small

751
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:27.199
gesture like that again, I'm I'm all for I'm all

752
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:32.039
for Vincent here, and then I'm even less for for

753
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:36.880
for Max because he's he's not all okay, So he's

754
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:40.000
been lying to his mom, and then he takes this

755
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:45.159
opportunity to run out with Vincent's briefcase and make it

756
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.599
make a mad dash for it to escape, and I'm thinking, dude,

757
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:53.960
you just left a homicidal killer in the hospital room

758
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.400
with your mom. Dude, that's that is cowardly and that

759
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.400
is stupid. I don't I don't. I don't understand, like

760
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:04.880
what his attention was. I just don't, Well, the.

761
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.039
Whole relationship that you just brought up when when Max's

762
00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:10.920
mother says, oh, why did you waste money on these?

763
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:13.719
You know they're just gonna die? And then Max says

764
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:15.880
he bought him, and Vinces said, yeah, I bought him,

765
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.320
and she's like, oh, they're beautiful. I mean, Max says

766
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:23.679
so much about Max's personality, about why Max is the

767
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:27.519
way he is, and I can't speak to whether or

768
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:31.639
not Max had deep feelings for his mother, but maybe

769
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.199
he thought that was his chance to get away and

770
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:39.719
to free himself with a situation which interestingly comes back

771
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:42.119
later on when they're in the parking lot of the

772
00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:44.800
club Fever and he said, or no, they're in the

773
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:51.320
parking lot of the club where Felix Reyes is in

774
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.119
and he says, you've got ten minutes at ten oh one,

775
00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:56.280
I'm going to the hospital and I'm going to execute

776
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.760
your mother. I think that was another pivot for Max.

777
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.360
The uh, the real, the real moment for Max where

778
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.599
I'm back on his side is meeting Felix. You know,

779
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:11.719
Javey R. Bardam's character, and he's got to find he

780
00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:13.159
finds his inner strength, right.

781
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:13.639
You know.

782
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.000
Vincent basically tells me like I'm not blowing my cover.

783
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.159
You're going in, You're gonna pretend to be me. You're

784
00:46:18.199 --> 00:46:21.639
gonna get these other two names. But Harvey arbardiam with

785
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:24.719
just a few minutes telling the Pedro story, the Santa

786
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:26.000
Claus Pedro story.

787
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:30.800
How do you think chilling? How do you think Santa

788
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.360
Claus would feel if you come to him and say

789
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:36.840
I lost my list?

790
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:38.440
How pissed you think?

791
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:38.639
Oh?

792
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:40.599
That was beautiful beauty.

793
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:43.599
In Max boom and he just looks around the room

794
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:47.159
and says, what do I think? I think that guy

795
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:49.400
behind me better put his gun away before I take

796
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.480
it away from him and beat his bitch ass to

797
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:52.079
death with it.

798
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.079
Yeah, it's a it's a It's a great moment for

799
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:59.199
Max to to find some strength, to find, you know,

800
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.960
to to kind of up for the situation, to Michael

801
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.719
man up if you will, absolutely love that moment. And

802
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.480
again I've said that I've used this phrase more times

803
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:14.840
than I care to remember. But javyerbardam doing a whole

804
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:19.039
lot with a very little bit of time. Yeh, that's awesome.

805
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:19.840
Eric.

806
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.320
I've got one other scene I want to talk about

807
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.199
before we take a break. It's what I feel is

808
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.760
the pivotal moment. It's the nighttime in La Montage. And

809
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.920
here's why we are riding along with the cops. We

810
00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:38.559
are riding along with Vincent and Max. We get shots

811
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.119
of palm trees, we get the La nightlife, we get

812
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:47.400
the helicopters flying over all this while Chris Cornell with

813
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:51.079
audio slave is belting out shadows on the sun. You

814
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.760
feel like you're in the middle of a Miami Vice episode.

815
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:59.119
It is Michael Man in his purest form, and it

816
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:01.480
may not be doing a whole lot for the movie

817
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.559
itself or the story, but it's doing everything to tell

818
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.280
you you're in Michael Man's world, and that for me

819
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:09.880
makes it the pivotal moment. A montage of all.

820
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:11.920
Things get out of my head?

821
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.599
Are you with the montage? No?

822
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:21.000
No, it wasn't so much the montage. It was I

823
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:24.440
could I could kind of feel what Max was thinking,

824
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:28.800
that he's involved in this huge thing now. And you're right.

825
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:35.000
We've got this gritty La nighttime digital scenery with the

826
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.159
palm trees, and then we're going past Lax with the

827
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:43.760
planes coming in. We've got the coyote that wanders out

828
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.679
in front of a car, and we haven't even touched

829
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:50.760
on the soundtrack. Yet we're talking oakenfold audio sleeve. I

830
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:52.320
mean it's a brilliant soundtrack.

831
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.000
Gruvamara has a great hands of time, great.

832
00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:59.400
But I actually do agree with you here. I have

833
00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.719
one of but I agree with you here. This is

834
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.960
where Max realizes the scope of what he's involved in

835
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:13.679
because they just escaped from Fever Club and they've got

836
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.159
one more job to do, and Max at this point

837
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:20.960
is like, this is the end all and be all.

838
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.920
And this is I think where Max, while he's driving

839
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:28.559
through that montage, he's going through his brain and he's thinking, Man,

840
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:31.400
it's fight or flight. I gotta do something or I'm

841
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:34.400
gonna die. And I think you're right. I agree with

842
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:38.199
you about that. That is the pivotal part where Max

843
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:42.159
gets to push. But I think there's one more little

844
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:49.639
piece of that that finally gives him that confidence to

845
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:53.199
go and do what he has to do. The montage

846
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:56.320
is leading him up to it, but there's one little

847
00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:58.800
piece of that that puts him over the edge.

848
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:01.320
Tell me what what? What scene?

849
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:05.000
You got? Two scenes? Number one when they zip when

850
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:07.719
when Vincent Zip ties his hand to the steering wheel

851
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:10.480
and the local thugs come up and they rob him,

852
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:17.239
and Vincent doesn't make any short time about just completely

853
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:21.840
taking those two guys out without without batting an eye.

854
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:24.960
And I think that, well, that's the first time that

855
00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:29.840
that Max ever saw Vincent in action. He's he had

856
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.880
never seen him do his job before.

857
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.119
That was two best time, what like, he puts two

858
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:38.239
guys down in less than seconds?

859
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:41.159
Yeah, yeah, one point three yeah, crazy, And that that

860
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.880
was from the Sas training. But anyway, that's when Max

861
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.239
really that's when Max first sees what Vincent is capable of.

862
00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:51.000
And then we get to the jazz club and we

863
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:54.719
get to other places, but that montage, you were absolutely right,

864
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:58.480
that's where Max is thinking in his head, I gotta

865
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:00.960
do something or I'm gonna die. There's no way he's

866
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:05.119
gonna let me live through this, and after everything I've

867
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:08.360
been through and and now all of this, the shootout,

868
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:11.079
the cops, the helicopters, You're right. I think that was

869
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:14.280
the pivotal scene. But the one last piece of the

870
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:17.760
puzzle was after they crashed the cab, after Max says,

871
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:21.039
you know what you're full of? You know, we're all

872
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:23.760
out here on this rock, just floating around in space,

873
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:27.760
and we don't matter. Nothing matters, and he just decides

874
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:31.079
to crash the cab. And then as he gets out

875
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:34.760
of the cab, he sees Vincent's last target and it's Annie.

876
00:51:35.320 --> 00:51:39.320
Mm hmm, and the dude dates down a cop. Yeah. Well,

877
00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:42.280
he's in. He's in. He's in fight or flight mode.

878
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:44.119
He's gotta he's got to react. He's got to take

879
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.320
care of he's gotta take care of Annie. Now he's

880
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.320
he has to slay the dragon. He has to face

881
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:51.440
Tom Cruise. He knows, he knows it. At this point,

882
00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:55.280
we're gonna take one more break and we'll come back.

883
00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:58.239
We'll start wrapping things up. We'll find out what Eric's

884
00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:06.519
suggestions are for more Michael Mann when we come back. Okay,

885
00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:12.440
So if someone watches Collateral, they love it, and they

886
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:16.280
come to you, Eric and they say, hey, this guy,

887
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:21.559
Michael Mann, I really love Collateral. What else can you recommend?

888
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:25.079
What should I be watching? I want to know what

889
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:31.199
three films would you suggest they watch to better understand

890
00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:31.719
Michael Mann?

891
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.360
Oh Man, that that that's hard. I would I think

892
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:39.400
I would have to say Ferrari.

893
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.719
For okay, one of his one of his one of

894
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:43.480
his most recent.

895
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Yeah, one of the most recent Heat. Definitely Heat.

896
00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:50.519
Heat's got to be in the conversation.

897
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:54.119
Because there's a lot of heat in this movie. I

898
00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:58.039
don't have a third. I'm falling short. I don't have

899
00:52:58.119 --> 00:52:58.440
a third.

900
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:03.519
No third, He's really like, no, nothing comes to Mindy.

901
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:05.719
Maybe I could throw in Last to the Mohicans. But

902
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:09.119
I watched it once. I thought it was a good film.

903
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:11.599
But all right, well, I'm gonna help you out here.

904
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:14.039
You're you're staring at me like I'm high.

905
00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:18.599
Well that's because Michael Mann's an incredible director. He's got

906
00:53:18.679 --> 00:53:23.679
so much from all right, so I'm with you. Nineteen

907
00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:26.639
ninety five's Heat, yep, has got to be a recommendation.

908
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:30.719
Apaccino, Robert de Niro, chef.

909
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.679
Yeah, Yes, nineteen ninety two is the Last of the Mohicans.

910
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:36.599
Absolutely would be something I recommend.

911
00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:36.920
Uh.

912
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.800
It's based off of James Finnimore Cooper's The Deer Deer

913
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:46.280
Slayer Nathaniel Bumpo. It's great, it's a great story, it's

914
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:52.559
a great movie. Daniel d. Lewis is just spectacular. Uh,

915
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.639
that's the only word that comes to mind. Uh. Everything

916
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:58.000
about the Last of the Mohicans is beautiful. As far

917
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:01.079
as I'm concerned and I'm with though one more movie.

918
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.159
We covered it actually on our limited series nineteeny six

919
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:08.119
Gotta Go with Man Hunter. We kind of mentioned at

920
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:11.159
the top of the hour William Peterson. This is actually

921
00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:14.679
the first. It's based off a Red Dragon from Thomas Harris.

922
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:18.440
The first Hannibal Lecter appearance we ever see on screen

923
00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:23.360
wasn't played by Anthony Hopkins, played by Brian Cox. Man

924
00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:27.960
Hunter is slick noir at its best, at its finest,

925
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:32.280
you know, just you know, oozing eighties appeal to. Those

926
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:34.559
are the three I would recommend, Eric, but I'm gonna

927
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.039
I'm gonna give you one more option here. Okay, I

928
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:43.239
call this the Palm Tree Trilogy, and what it is

929
00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:48.800
it's Heat, Collateral and Miami Vice. And I'm talking about

930
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:52.480
Miami Vice, the movie Jimmy Fox as opposed to the

931
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:57.480
although hey, you can't go wrong watching the television.

932
00:54:57.039 --> 00:54:59.639
Series, which he did right as a follow up to

933
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:01.039
t he did.

934
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.480
He did, so I'm talking you're from from one coast

935
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:08.599
to the next. It's it's palm trees, it's guns, it's

936
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:13.840
no r it's incredible visuals, it's incredible music. I'm coining

937
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:17.000
the phrase Palm Tree Trilogy. Michael Mann's Palm Tree Trilogy.

938
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:21.320
You heard it here first he Collateral and mimy vice. Eric,

939
00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:24.719
I'm gonna tell you, I recommend owning this. I've got

940
00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:27.920
the two disc DVD. It still holds up, looks great.

941
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:31.800
Until they do a four K release, I'll stick with it.

942
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:35.400
But do you recommend people seeing this?

943
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:40.280
Absolutely? I own it, And as you know, Dayton Johnson

944
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:43.119
always says physical media is better than streaming. I have

945
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.280
a blue I think I have the Blu Ray version

946
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:48.760
of this on DVD. Yes, oh, absolutely, all right.

947
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:52.239
Lots of fun extras on the disc. But for those

948
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.440
of you that like to stream, it is currently streaming

949
00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:56.760
on Paramount Plus right now.

950
00:55:57.119 --> 00:55:57.280
Yep.

951
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.719
So, So listeners, what do you think of Michael Mann's Collateral?

952
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.639
Have you seen it? Is it one of your favorite

953
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:05.800
Tom Cruise performances?

954
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:07.199
Who is?

955
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:08.519
Who's your favorite movie?

956
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:08.920
Hit Man?

957
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:09.360
You know?

958
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:10.519
Is it?

959
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:14.039
Is it? Vincent? Like Eric Dirth believes, you can let

960
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:17.079
us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram,

961
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:19.880
and x You can check out a film by podcast

962
00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:23.239
dot com for all of our episodes streaming on the

963
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:25.400
platform of your choice. We've got a lot of fun stuff.

964
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:29.280
There some games, there's some there's some articles, definitely some

965
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:32.320
fun stuff to check out links to our patreon. You

966
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:35.199
can also email us at a film by podcast at

967
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:38.199
gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We

968
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:40.599
may just read your response on the show and send

969
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:42.480
you some of a film by swag.

970
00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:43.639
Eric.

971
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:48.679
I've had a blast talking talking Los Angeles and Hits

972
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:52.480
and Tom cruise with you. Our listeners can find you

973
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:55.639
over on the docum base seventy seven podcasts from time

974
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:58.679
to time. You got a thing coming up soon, anything

975
00:56:58.719 --> 00:56:59.719
we should be on the lookout for.

976
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.559
I think we do. I think we have record Ralph.

977
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:05.519
All right, well, I want to thank you again for

978
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.039
stopping by and talking collateral, and to all of you

979
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:12.400
listening to the show, following us on social media and

980
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.280
subscribing to our patreon. We thank you.