Neil Burger - The Illusionist

0:00 I'm curious, are you familiar with the term twin films phenomenon? That phrase, have you heard that before? I mean, I haven't heard that phrase, I don't think, but I'm sure I know what it means. Okay, like when you hear the twin films phenomenon, what do you think of? Like randomly you'll have competing similar films. Yes. Okay. So this is a Hollywood trend. where two films about the same subject matter are released virtually in the same year, or usually in the same year. This is kind of like industry types, like writers, producers, directors.

0:42 They tend to share an interest in whatever zeitgeist or public fascination is on the rise. Most cases, the movies happen by coincidence. It's not planned, but once it happens... It tends to be a race by competing studios to see which film is going to get released first. Amber, on last week's episode for The Prestige, you offered some fantastic film suggestions to our listeners. Well, that is to say the ones listening and supporting us on Patreon. So I have a list here of twin films that fall under this twin films phenomenon. So without debate or explanation... Oh, gosh.

1:25 Okay. You're going to recommend which film you think is better. You're going to go live without a net here. Are you ready for this? Okay, so it's not like which one made more money or anything like that. No, just personal preference. Personal preference. Okay. Which one's better? Okay. 1994, Tombstone or Wyatt Earp? Tombstone. Yeah. Tombstone was technically released December 25th, 1993, but I'm counting it. Yeah. 1997, Dante's Peak or Volcano? Oh, Dante's Peak. That's Brosnan. I knew. Right. 1998, Armageddon or Deep Impact?

2:07 Deep Impact. Okay. I don't know if there's a wrong answer there. Let's stay in 1998. Ants or A Bug's Life? A Bug's Life. Okay. I don't know if you're going to have a comment on this one. Let's do one more. Okay. If you haven't seen one or both of them, that's fine. But 2013, Olympus Has Fallen or White House Down? I haven't seen either one. Okay. Well, go ahead and watch Olympus Has Fallen because it's awesome. And you can skip White House Down. It's basically, it's Die Hard and The White House, both movies. Oh, okay. Doesn't one have Gerard Butler, though? The one that's good does, yes. Olympus Has Fallen.

2:48 I don't like him. Okay, stop that. The Prestige also happens to have a twin. So let's talk about a film by Neil Berger, his 2006 Oscar-nominated slow-burn mystery film, The Illusionist. The Illusionist Hello, everybody.

3:34 I'm Jeff Johnson. I'm Amber Lewis. And this is A Film By Podcast. Amber, we're drawing close to the end of the Magic and Mystery and Nolan month. It's a sad story. It is, but it's been a fun month. All good things must end. It has been a fun month. Uh, I gotta tell you during our extended version of the prestige episode that we did for Patreon last week, I issued a challenge to our kick-ass Patreon subscribers that involved several five word synopses. Yes. I emailed you this morning. I know you did. You were not only were you correct, uh, but you were quick to solve it. Um, So now we'll give the rest of our Patreon listeners, let's give them to the end of September. Yeah. We don't have much time, but we'll give the rest of our Patreon family until the end of September for their chance to win. Obviously, you're getting the prize, but let's share that prize. Right.

4:37 Let's give three other listeners a chance. So listeners, if you have not done so yet, you can get this show early, ad-free, and more often than not, with additional content. And that's nothing to say of all the exclusive episodes we have for you there. So head to www.patreon.com slash afilmbuypodcast. Get access for as little as $ 3 a month. She doesn't know it yet, but coming up later, Amber is going to weigh in on five questions during the Patreon bonus segment of this episode. So if you're not listening to this on Patreon, you're going to miss the magic. Oh, boy. Neil Berger. I'm not familiar with a lot of his work.

5:21 I'll just profess that now. Yeah, I picked when looking at another film of his to suggest, I picked the one that I was like, ooh, that sounds interesting. Because I haven't seen anything else that he's done. Are we going? Okay, so full disclosure. I've seen some of his work, but I have not seen the majority of it. And now you've got me curious. We've got to wait until the end of the show, but you've got to be curious. Are we going to pick the same film? We're going to find out. I bet we are. But before we get there, let's talk. I know you don't know these three things about Neil Berger. Uh-huh. I don't know anything. This guy is mysterious. There's not a lot to dig up on him.

6:02 He's another one of those directors that we've got that is like an enigma. Yeah. Well, I was able to unearth a couple fun things about him. And I got a quote from the man. Um, let's start with this one. Neil Berger born on the fateful date of November 22nd, 1963. Wow. Yeah. Uh, I mean, sometimes you, you know, you, you get excited for your birthday, but when one of history's most infamous events takes place on your birthday, that's definitely gonna Overshadowed. It's not just November 22nd. It was the day.

6:43 The day, yeah. Every birthday is overshadowed by that. Well, after directing a few music videos, he actually approached MTV with an idea to direct some promotional videos. Remember the old PSAs that we grew up on? Yeah. So these things ultimately became... the MTV Books Feed Your Head campaign in 1991. Berger shot three 60-second videos, which featured Sherilyn Finn, Timothy Hutton, and Aidan Quinn reading passages from books. The campaign was created to entice people to read more often. Berger actually said of the project, and I'm quoting him here, they're aimed at people who know how to read, but who don't because they're too busy or too They think that reading is boring. The idea behind the spots is that reading is as cool or as entertaining or as sexy or as fun or as weird or scary or whatever as their favorite TV show or favorite rock band. I like it. I don't think I've ever said one sentence. I've never read a sentence that had the word or in it.

7:57 Right. But I'm quoting him. Yes. Amber, he also worked with the Ridley Scott Creative Group, directing commercials for MasterCard, IBM, and ESPN. Interesting. Yeah. Now, on filmmaking, I quoted him, but here's the quote. On filmmaking, Neil Berger has this to say, I know the movies that I've liked, and I know the experience that they've given me. So the goal is always to try to create a movie that I would like myself, and that would knock me out, challenge me, or intrigue me in some way. That's been my criteria for figuring out what I want to do, or also when I'm writing something or creating a scene. I am excited to find out if the illusionist, if you liked it, if it knocked you out, if it challenged or intrigued you, Amber.

8:55 So let's start our conversation, but let's start with your not favorite thing. The five-word synopsis. Amber, who did such an amazing job deciphering the Patreon challenge last week, what is the illusionist all about using exactly five words? Magician saves lover with illusions. But I feel like I'm wrong because I shouldn't have used the word illusion. I'm going to– judges, yeah, we're going to allow that because you can't use the movie title. So you used the word illusions. You did not use the word illusionist.

9:35 But I feel like I. Should have cracked out the thesaurus and come up with– Maybe. But you still– you get by on this one. You just can't use– you can't use character names. You can't use actor, actresses' names, and you can't use movie title names, words from the movie title. But we're going to go with that. I got one for you. How about– Romance motivates clever, magical deception. Oh, I like that one so much better. Thank you. Thank you. I like that one. You win this round. Okay. Well, thank you. So let's talk about this. It arrives in theaters a few months ahead of The Prestige.

10:17 It does $ 87. 8 million on a budget of $ 16. 5 million. And that's like in August. And then in October, The Prestige does $ 109 million on a budget of $ 40 million. So if you want to crunch the numbers, technically The Illusionist makes about $ 2 million more. But we remember The Prestige while we've forgotten The Illusionist. So. Help me out here because both these films have incredible casts. They're both Oscar nominated. Both are very well shot. So is Christopher Nolan the deciding factor here on why we remember one and kind of forget the other?

11:07 For the public at large, it would have to be because I've never forgotten this movie. Okay. Yeah. I love this movie. Yeah, so true cinephiles. I know a true cinephile, a movie geek, you're going to say The Illusionist, and they're going to tell you who starred in it and what it did at the box office its opening weekend. But general public, the general movie going public, I think most often, like you talk about magic movies, this one kind of– it falls– it gets lost in the shuffle. Yeah. Yeah. I– It makes me sad for this movie because it's such a fantastic film. Same, yes.

11:47 Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break because I want to talk about the casting career a little bit, and I know you do too. Oh, yes. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Amber Lewis and I are discussing The Illusionist, the 2006 film by director Neil Berger. I never do this, Amber. Never. We always talk about cast and crew. We rarely mention crew. I'm starting with crew. Can we talk about Dick Pope for a minute? Yes, I was going to say, especially if we're going to start with him. Okay, okay. Amber's excited about Dick Pope here, the director of photography. Let's just open on the movie's opening. I think the sepia-toned color palette and the lighting he's using is gorgeous.

12:35 Well, the whole flashback sequence is lit. like from behind. So it kind of looks like you're watching one of those old, like, yes. Like, Oh, I can't think of a flame type of, yeah, I know. Yeah. Like a 10 type type of, you know, turn of the century movie. Or something like first ever, you know, um, cinematograph or something like that. Yeah. It's just, it's like, and it's such a subtle, but good effect. And I just love it. I never thought I'd appreciate browns and beiges and golds the way I do.

13:17 It when I watch this movie. It sounds boring, but this movie is so beautiful. It absolutely is. Pope is nominated for Best Cinematography at the 79th Academy Awards. He's up against. He's up against Wally Pfister. The raw year. I mean, the poor guy. Yeah, he's up against Wally Pfister for the Prestige. And both of them lose to Guillermo del Varo. And I know you know who he is. For Pan's Labyrinth. Yeah. Who's going to win against that? It's a murderer's row. You got Pan's Labyrinth and the Prestige and the Illusionist. It's a tough break for Dick Pope, I think.

14:00 Yes. Absolutely love... I love what he did with this film, though. It's just beautiful. Beautiful to watch. It's absolutely gorgeous. And the way that he worked with the production design and the costuming and made everything just look its best. And, you know, atmospheric and the whole thing. I love the way this movie looks. Let's talk leading men. Last week, we were talking about characters like Professor Borden. And the great Danton. Yes. How about Eisenheim the Illusionist? What a great name. I think he wins.

14:41 I think he wins. He wins, right? Edward Norton playing Eisenheim. So the character is based off of Erik Jan Hannesen. Do you know that name, Amber? I do not. Okay. So he was an Austrian clairvoyant who was known for being a hypnotist. an occultist, an astrologer, and oddly enough, he treated Adolf Hitler for his depression. He's not a medical doctor, but he's treating Hitler for reasons we don't know. Wow. Very strange. I don't get any of that from Edward Norton's performance as Eisenheim, but maybe like the hypnotist, the mentalist.

15:25 What I think is interesting is that it's so easy for magicians to sort of slide into you know, seances and things like that, like that quite often happens. And I usually just roll my eyes and like, it's such a charlatan bogus thing. But it works. It's snake oil. It does. Well, it has, yeah, it has to, it has to. And I want to get into that. I definitely want to get into that. Uh, he, he goes, Edward Norton goes a little method, uh, by performing his own magic tricks. Uh, well, he's being coached by James Friedman, who is a sleight of hand entertainer and magician, uh, also known as the world's number one pickpocket.

16:08 Yes. Which is so important. That guy picked the pocket of like, like the mayor of New York or no, the mayor of London. And are you kidding? Oh, okay. So he's like done this, like, like real people, big, big, big shots. Wow. I guess, I guess he's never skipping out on a lunch tab. He's always got money, right? Yeah. That's the case. I'll tell you, I think, I think, You and I have talked– I don't know if– I can't remember what pod specifically it's been on or if it's just been in casual conversation, but Paul Giamatti. Oh, my gosh. Who's just so fun to watch. Well, we did Sideways together, no? That's right. Yeah, you and I did– no, we didn't do Sideways. We did– we haven't done Sideways yet. No? No.

16:53 We did Election by Alexander Payne. We talked about Sideways. Maybe that's what it was. Yeah. Okay, so he's playing Chief Inspector, is it Hugh? Ewell. Ewell, okay. He, for me, is this entire movie. Okay, so we're just going to shine a spotlight on him because that's, you know, that's the choice. Go back to your first time watching this. Did you have the feeling like, and it's been a long time since I've seen this, so I don't remember every frame of the movie. Oh, I do. I watch this movie all the time. Okay, okay. Well, think back to your original viewing then, the first time you've seen this. Because I'm watching and I'm like, can we trust him? Think back to how you felt about him the first time you watched this movie.

17:40 I don't know. I was so enamored with Paul Giamatti's performance and what he does with his voice and the accent and everything that I think I was completely... sold on the character, even though I, there are times at which he's a little opportunist. Yeah. Um, but I, I just, I think he is such a good guy on the inside that even when he's making questionable choices, you're still like, yeah, but you're a good guy. You're going to do the right thing at some point. It's a movie like this, like when, especially when it's dealing with magic and illusions, part of the fun is that certain characters, um, you think that they are someone when in reality they're not. And I feel like we're meant to think he's like the, the crown Prince's stooge, you know, his, his heavy, but you know, Paul Giamatti's character, you know, he's got, he's got his honor. He's got his, you know, respect for the, the, you know, for the, for the role as chief inspector. So he's going to do the right thing.

18:49 Yeah. And for the truth. Yeah. For justice and for the truth. Yes. I love watching this for Paul Giamatti mainly. Yeah. I mean, it's just amazing. You fight with yourself because you're agreeing with him at times, you're disagreeing with him at times, and you just want him to land on what's right. Yes. But I think you also see kind of the position that he's in with the crown prince where, I mean, you can only push back so hard. Well, yeah. Kiddo. This guy's pretty ruthless. Yeah. So far you can take it with the boss, right? Yeah.

19:31 I'm curious what you, I would be curious what you think about Liv Tyler. But she did drop out of the film like a week before principal photography begins. And they are fortunate because Jessica Biel jumps in to the role of Duchess Sophie von Teschen. Yeah. Not, not, not. She's pretty. She's pretty. She's fine. Do we do? Okay. Well, yeah, but I think much more interesting. We need more. I wish I didn't ever knew that. I'm sorry. I am sorry to I was.

20:11 Accepting Jessica Biel, but... Now you. Know you could have had Liv Tyler. Now I know I could have had Liv Tyler. I'm like, damn. Yeah. So not... Is it Jessica Biel in this role or is it just Jessica Biel in general that, you know, in her film work? I just said generally she just doesn't really do anything for me. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's fair. But she's... I love this movie so much. And like, she's pretty and... You know, she's the trophy that we're going for, so it's fine. Is she believable? Like, listen, it's, what is it, 1900 is the year the movie takes place, I think? I think it's before that, but yeah. Like, turn of the century-ish. Yeah.

20:51 This is a time, Amber, when maybe women are not speaking their minds and standing up for themselves, but I buy into her. Yes. The way she speaks to the crown prince. I get it. I love the subtle way that in her first interaction with the crown prince, you see that like, there is no love there. She's just like, she, the way she just looks at him and gets up and walks to the stage. I'm like, so we know everything we need to know about their relationship. Yeah. Right there. Very, very prearranged. Very, uh, yeah, very much, uh, a marriage of convenience. Uh, the character, uh, of Sophie was based on Baroness Marie Alexandrine von Vetsera. I just think it's cool because she was a Baroness. I immediately went to G.I. Joe. Vetsera was an Austrian noblewoman who was in fact the mistress of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria.

21:59 Oh boy. So we got some fun It's an intrigue. Yeah. Um, movie also stars Rufus Sewell as crown Prince Leopold. And I love him so much. And he's always such a rat bastard in like everything he does. The last time we spoke about him, uh, you and Angela Norris, we were talking about, uh, Tristan and his old, where he basically is playing the same guy. He's like a high, like the, you know, royalty, uh, He's got the girl who is secretly having an affair on the side.

22:40 Can this guy ever catch a break? I mean, is he that? What is it about Rufus Sewell where he always has to play the cuck? I don't get it. I just don't get it. I mean, he's a turd in this movie, the character. Oh, he's horrible. He deserves what he gets. He's sexy as hell, but he's such a horrible person in this movie. And he always plays a bad guy, but bad guys are more fun. Bad guys are fun. Can't blame him. I'll tell you who typically plays a bad guy is Eddie Marson, who's also in this playing Fisher. He's Eisenheim's stage manager. He's so funny in this. I love him. It's nice to see him not play the bad guy or not play a villainous character. And he's so fun in this. He's heartwarming in a way.

23:28 I almost wanted to shine the spotlight on him, but I was like, Giamatti's just doing too much work here. He's so good. And Marcin's just kind of, he's in it. And then we get a whole section of the film where he's nowhere to be found. And he's back. But I love it. You know, I'm watching this. And again, you watch it all the time. A lot. And you know this already. But what I was surprised about, I happen to be a huge fan Of Aaron Taylor Johnson. And I'm watching this the other day. In the beginning, you know, when we're talking about the way they shot the flashbacks. I'm looking at the kid who's playing the young Eisenheim. And I was like, damn, he looks so familiar.

24:16 He's such a baby. I couldn't place it. Yeah. That's Aaron Taylor Johnson. He was just a kid playing the Eisenheim role. Yes. And then I started looking. I was like, well, wait. Was this like his first movie? And it turns out, like I guess a year or two before, he's in Shanghai Nights with Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson. Oh, really? Yeah. I got to go back and watch that and see where he's at in that. Right? Yeah. It's just kind of cool to see him. Yes. When you think about who he is now and, you know, blockbuster star. I think he did all these kid actor roles. And then all of a sudden he shows up in Kick-Ass, which was, I want to say, like 2010. Yeah. kind of puts him on the map. And from there, he, he joins the MCU.

25:00 I was going to say, I remember him as Quicksilver. Yeah. He's Quicksilver. He's, you know, he was bullet train Godzilla. Yeah. I look, people can hate on Craven all they want, but he was awesome in Craven. I'm not telling people to go watch it. Cause it's an acquired taste, but he, he was awesome. So that's all, that's all I got to say about Angela Johnson. A couple of things about this movie. Uh, and, I'm going to tell you one, and then, Amber, I'm going to pause because I know you know something about the background of this movie that you're just excited to talk about. Okay. So I'm going to give you that. I want to give you that.

25:40 Okay. But as you know, the film is based on the short story Eisenheim the Illusionist by author Stephen Milhauser from his 1990 collection of short stories, The Barnum Museum. Which is supposed to be just a bang-in collection, right? They've got great reviews. I think you and I need to run to Borders or the local bookstore. We need to get that. We need to get The Prestige by Christopher Priest. We need to just go, you know. Yep. I've said it before. Like Wayne White does the Star Trek book reviews on our website. We ought to do like an episode, like a book review episode. Ooh, that would be fun. Adapted to film. I think that would be kind of fun. Let's look at that.

26:23 Well, add that to the list. Let's look at that next season. Listeners, I don't know. Can we do some book talk? You let us know. Email us, drop us a comment, whatever you're listening on. I'm curious now. Amber, do you want to tell us... Friedman wasn't the only person helping these guys on set. Oh, no! You want to talk about this? My boy, Ricky Jay, was helping them out as well. Ricky Jay... is a technical advisor on the film. He's the guy I'm telling you. This dude is a technical advisor on the prestige and the illusionist in the same year. And I dig that.

27:06 It's so cool. Like, I always thought like the connection with the connection between these movies is like, Hey, they're both magic movies that come out. They're both period movies, magic movies that came out the same year. If you told me like there was one person tying them together, I never would have believed it. And of all people, it's Ricky Jay. Well, and it's so funny. It must just be that he's just so amazing because you would think there'd be some kind of conflict of interest. You would think. But I think he's just so awesome that they're like, ah, we have to have him. Who cares? Yeah. I quote our friend Chuck Bryan, Ricky Jay, cooler than the other side of the pillow. Absolutely.

27:47 I got one more interesting little tidbit here for you. Back in October of 2024, composer Andrew Lloyd Webber announced that he intends to adapt this movie into a stage musical. So somebody better get Robert Burnett on the phone because I'm sure he'll need his own technical advisor. And I can think of no one better. But I would love to see this. The last I heard, Jamie Lloyd, who is the hottest– theater director going right now uh was was tapped to direct it. So oh okay i if this happens and it comes to you or near us let's that's a film a film by goes to the theater that night like we all gotta go i would love this i'd love to see this that'd be fantastic all right well let's take let's take a break amber because uh i know there's a scene you want to talk about there's a scene i want to talk about something tells me they could be the same scene I don't know. For me, there's only one. Oh, okay. We've been in sync a lot lately, so we'll see right when we get back. Okay. Amber, are we talking about the pivotal moment? Are we talking about a strong performance? Are we talking about Berger's direction?

29:05 Is it Pope's cinematography? Why did you pick the scene that you want to talk about? So, it's a little bit Just all of it. It's mostly the performance. And also, I have to give a shout out to Philip Glass's soundtrack. I love this soundtrack. You know, we should have mentioned Philip Glass because this is, it's some good stuff. It's some good music. It's amazing. I listen to it a lot. He captures the period really well, I think, with his score. Absolutely. This is one, you own it, I don't. i don't own this one i'm gonna change that but you know how some dvds and blu-rays they they have the isolated uh score um yes where you can just watch the movie with just the score i think this would be a good one to watch like.

29:53 That it really really would and it is a crucial piece to the scene that I like. Okay, well, let's talk about this scene. So for me, this whole movie for me boils down to the scene at the end when Uel figures everything out. Oh, yes. From the moment the kid gives him the envelope until the end. Like, Paul Giamatti's face is so expressive, and it's really hard because... what he's giving you is someone who is thinking and putting the pieces of the puzzle together in their head. As you're watching these flashbacks showing you what ha what really happened. And that's really hard to do with no dialogue, nothing to play off of.

30:44 And like the fact that all is like, he's so happy about it. He's so tickled that he figured it out. He's so happy about the way it turned out. Yeah, well, what really does it for me is that sweeping camera shot. Yes, where it rotates. Where it rotates and he throws his head back laughing. And he claps. Yes. He does that little clap. He's at a train station by himself. He's giving Eisenheim like one final applause, right? Yes. That's a great scene, Amber. That is an absolutely great scene. I love it so much. I got one different.

31:25 Oh, you do? Yeah. Well, I love the scene you talked about. It's a fantastic scene. Yes. The one I picked, I guess you could say it could be the pivotal moment, maybe for a character. And it's just something I love. I love this scene every time I watch it. I thought you and I might have the same one because of the subject matter that's introduced. But can we talk about the Excalibur scene? I knew you were going to say that. I almost jumped in. I knew. I figured. So, okay. So, Eisenheim has some great illusions, right?

32:06 Some great tricks. I think we might talk about that during the Patreon bonus stuff. But the Excalibur trick or that scene, you know, the Crown Prince invites him to perform at his home. He's got all his well-to-do society types, you know, there as his audience. And I feel like this is a real pivotal moment for Eisenheim himself because he is openly challenging and mocking the crown prince in front of his revered guests doing this sword trick. And you've got to wonder, like, is this the moment where his hubris and his obsession starts to take hold of him, starts to show itself for what it is? Because he clearly wants Sophie.

32:53 Well, and not only that, but by this time, he has talked to his manager and he knows that the prince is horrible. Like, we already think he's killed one person. Yeah, we assume he's killed one woman. We know he's abusive to other women. Yeah. And if he's not abusive to Sophie, it's only a matter of time. So, you know, even just foregoing the fact that Eisenheim's still in love with her, he's a horrible person. So. And it's such a fun trip. It's hard to stand in front of somebody like that and not know how you really feel. Well, it's like we talked about how Ul has to mind himself a little bit. He can't just, you know.

33:39 Yes. He's got to watch what he says and how he conducts himself around the prince. And again, for Eisenheim to do what he does in this scene, you know, this is like two alphas in the room, right? Because, say what you will, Leopold, the crown prince, it's almost like he's wanting to be the act himself. He's kind of taking charge of the whole thing. Well, he wants to show how smart he is. Yeah, he wants to show how smart he is. To figure things out. Like, I know how you did the trick. Yeah, and his guests are like, hey, let's just watch the show. It's so boorish. Anybody that does that at a magic show, it's like... mocking a comedian like why are you here don't do.

34:25 That yeah what don't we don't need a heckler but it's like it's it's like it's like it's his party and he wants to you know he wants to control how things go but. Rufus sold us such a great job of playing insecure oh gosh yeah like it's so good well. I love the trick for for what it is because he you know like the you know leopold he challenges him says well let's How about you do something that you don't have prepared? He's like, okay, well, let me see your sword. So he takes his sword. He stands it up as he's telling the tale of Excalibur. We all know the story of Excalibur. He tells this audience. And then it's magically just standing upright. No one's touching it.

35:09 And then he, hey, only the worthy one can pull it from the stone. Hey, you, sir, come try it. And no one can budge it. I like... That little moment that Sewell has as Leopold, the second guy shows up, he says, not too eager, cousin. His cousin, yeah. Yeah, his cousin. Amber, fun fact, based on who Leopold, if Leopold is actually based off of the real crown prince, the cousin would have been Franz Ferdinand. That's awesome. We're given all kinds of history here. history lessons to our listeners today. Learned all kinds of fun trivia. But the idea that he has, that Eisenheim has kind of harped on this whole worthy, only the worthy can pick it up or can pull it. When you see Sewell's face grimace because he can't budge it, And then, again, some of the subtle acting in this movie, you talked about Giamatti's face, but Edward Norton, just giving that little nod, like, now you may. Just between them two. And then he kind of hoists it, and it's laborious, you know?

36:31 Yes. And he's like, oh, look, see, the rightful owner of the sword. Yes. So he gives him his accolade, but not before he He embarrasses him a little bit. Yeah. I love the scene for that. It's really good. I think so, too. Man, I'll tell you what, this hour is going by quick. It is. Let's do one more break before we wrap things up. Unless you're listening to us on our Patreon, because you guys already know there are no ad breaks. And we've got some bonus stuff. I'm going to give Amber five questions. We're going to get the Amber Lewis voice of reason take. For those of you listening on Patreon, and for those of you that aren't listening on Patreon yet, what are you doing?

37:20 Come join us. As little as $ 3 a month. Right. Come on. But if you don't want to, that's cool. We'll be back in like 90 seconds. We are back. Amber, a spirited conversation for our Patreon bonus content there. thank you for being such a fun sport. And I loved everything that you said. Just was like, yep, that makes perfect sense. Oh, thank you. So the fact that we got to dive a little bit deeper into this film with some questions that you weren't prepared to answer, I appreciate you for doing it. Now then, at the top of the hour, you and I were pretty straightforward. We have seen very little of Mr. Berger's filmography. So my question to you, because he's done some big ones, like I think, I think if you don't know the name, you probably know Divergent, which is like probably his biggest, uh, blockbuster based off those books. I think Shailene, Shailene Woodley was in it. Wooly. Shailene. Um, I never saw it, you know, I, I did not either. Okay. We're not, we're not fans. That's okay. but Neil Berger, Amber, if you were going to, if you're going to recommend an underrated project, and I know this is not easy because

38:51 we truly, we haven't seen most of his stuff. So what do you, what do you, what are you going to recommend to someone that's interested in Neil Berger? Well, so looking through his filmography, the name Ben Mendelsohn jumped out at me. He made a film with Daisy Ridley and Ben Mendelsohn. Called The Marsh King's Daughter. And I only watched part of the trailer because it seemed like maybe the trailer was going to reveal too much. And I didn't want to know. So I stopped it. But it's, I'm intrigued. And I, I really think it sounds, it sounds really interesting.

39:32 You had me at Ben Mendelsohn. Right. That guy is awesome in everything he does. So, yes. Okay. I'm definitely going to, I'm going to go on a burger kick here and I'm not talking about the delicious kind. I definitely want to see that now that you've mentioned it. I've got one for you. In 2002, he did a movie called Interview with the Assassin. And I'll tell you what, we're wrapping things up. When we're finished here, go onto YouTube or IMDb and watch this trailer. He shoots it like a pseudo-documentary film. And it's all about a man claiming to be the second gunman that made the kill shot during the assassination of JFK.

40:18 Wow. So I guess we know how having his birthday on that day affected the course of his life if he's making this film. He's making this movie. I'm telling you, I watched the trailer three times. It looks absolutely chilling. I'm obsessed. I love anything about the JFK assassination. I'm so fascinated. I'm in. Yeah, it's like 40 years later, this filmmaker is... Interviewing this guy who claims he was on the grassy knoll behind the fence. And the way that, I mean, because it looks like just archival footage. And they're obviously, they're intercutting in the trailer. You're seeing intercutting of, you know, of President Kennedy and the Zapruder film, that kind of stuff. But, I mean, it's just, it's like, this guy's like ice cold the way he's talking about it. And it just looks like a really intense thriller, even though it's shot like something you'd watch on Discovery Channel. It's so cool looking.

41:25 I'm watching it later tonight when we're wrapping things up here because it looks that good. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, interview with the assassin. Interview with the assassin. Okay. Check it out. And the Marsh King's daughter. And the Marsh King's daughter. And the illusionist. Yes. There's your Neil Berger triple feature for sure. Next time on A Film By, we'll be talking about the most magical film of 2001. It had to happen, Amber. We've been celebrating the films of 2001 and 2006. So obviously we're going to, you know, in a month all about magic and mystery, we're going to close it out as we head to Hogwarts for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Listeners, if you've seen it, everyone's seen it.

42:11 I mean.... Listeners, how would you summarize it in exactly five words? I can't wait to hear what some of you have. When you can only use five words to talk about Harry Potter, that's going to be a fun one. Go to www.afilmbypodcast.com to give us your answer. Email us at afilmbypodcast at gmail.com or, I don't know, send us an owl. If we use your five-word synopsis on the show... We'll shout you out on the episode. We'll give you a film by swag. Please join us on social media. You will find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X. We love interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking your requests for future episodes, and debating great movies. Amber, I have had a blast with you this month. I knew that we were going to talk about a couple of Nolan films. I knew we were going to The whole theme of this month was going to be about magic and mystery. And I was like, this is right up Amber Lewis's alley. She's going to be a big fan of all these. So thank you for joining me as often as you have this month. And we got one more. Harry Potter's coming next week.

43:25 So much fun. Yeah, it is so much fun. So thank you, Amber. And to all of you listening to the show, following us on social media, subscribing to and supporting us on Patreon. We absolutely thank you.