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Sept. 20, 2026

Neil Burger - The Illusionist

Neil Burger - The Illusionist

Mystery, Magic & Nolan! Jeff and Amber continue conjuring conversation about mystery, magic, and period settings with a look at Neil Burger's 2006 film, The Illusionist! Is it better than Christopher Nolan's The Prestige? Nothing is as it seems!...

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Season 7
Mystery, Magic & Nolan!

Jeff and Amber continue conjuring conversation about mystery, magic, and period settings with a look at Neil Burger's 2006 film, The Illusionist! Is it better than Christopher Nolan's The Prestige? Nothing is as it seems!

This episode is available AD-FREE with an additional 12 minutes on our Patreon right now! We dig a little deeper into what motivates the incredible characters played by Edward Norton, Jessica Biel, and Paul Giamatti. And Amber tells us who really should have won the Oscars at the 79th Academy Awards! Get started with a FREE 7-day trial. We've got plenty of exclusive content and episodes that you'll only find there! You can also sign up as a free member!

Check out our NEW YouTube Channel and subscribe now! Our new series Previously On... is exclusively available over on YouTube to cover your favorite TV shows, and ours!

Connect with us on social media and our website!
WEBVTT

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I'm curious, are you familiar with the term twin films phenomenon?

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That phrase, have you heard that before?

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I mean, I haven't heard that phrase, I don't think,

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but I'm sure I know what it means.

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Okay, like when you hear the twin films phenomenon, what

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do you think of?

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Like randomly you'll have competing similar films.

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Yes. Okay. So this is a Hollywood trend. where two

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films about the same subject matter are released virtually in

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the same year, or usually in the same year. This

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is kind of like industry types, like writers, producers, directors.

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They tend to share an interest in whatever zeitgeist or

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public fascination is on the rise. Most cases, the movies

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happen by coincidence. It's not planned, but once it happens...

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It tends to be a race by competing studios to

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see which film is going to get released first. Amber,

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on last week's episode for The Prestige, you offered some

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fantastic film suggestions to our listeners. Well, that is to

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say the ones listening and supporting us on Patreon. So

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I have a list here of twin films that fall

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under this twin films phenomenon. So without debate or explanation... Oh, gosh.

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Okay.

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You're going to recommend which film you think is better.

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You're going to go live without a net here. Are

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you ready for this?

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Okay, so it's not like which one made more money

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or anything like that. No, just personal preference.

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Personal preference. Okay. Which one's better? Okay. 1994, Tombstone or

29
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Wyatt Earp? Tombstone. Yeah. Tombstone was technically released December 25th, 1993,

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but I'm counting it. Yeah. 1997, Dante's Peak or Volcano?

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Oh, Dante's Peak.

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That's Brosnan. I knew. Right. 1998, Armageddon or Deep Impact?

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Deep Impact.

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Okay. I don't know if there's a wrong answer there.

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Let's stay in 1998. Ants or A Bug's Life?

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A Bug's Life.

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Okay. I don't know if you're going to have a

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comment on this one. Let's do one more. Okay. If

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you haven't seen one or both of them, that's fine.

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But 2013, Olympus Has Fallen or White House Down?

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I haven't seen either one.

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Okay. Well, go ahead and watch Olympus Has Fallen because

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it's awesome. And you can skip White House Down. It's basically,

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it's Die Hard and The White House, both movies.

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Oh, okay. Doesn't one have Gerard Butler, though?

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The one that's good does, yes. Olympus Has Fallen.

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I don't like him.

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Okay, stop that. The Prestige also happens to have a twin.

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So let's talk about a film by Neil Berger, his

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2006 Oscar-nominated slow-burn mystery film, The Illusionist. The Illusionist Hello, everybody.

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I'm Jeff Johnson.

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I'm Amber Lewis.

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And this is A Film By Podcast. Amber, we're drawing

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close to the end of the Magic and Mystery and

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Nolan month.

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It's a sad story.

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It is, but it's been a fun month.

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All good things must end.

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It has been a fun month. Uh, I gotta tell

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you during our extended version of the prestige episode that

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we did for Patreon last week, I issued a challenge

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to our kick-ass Patreon subscribers that involved several five word synopses.

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Yes. I emailed you this morning.

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I know you did. You were not only were you correct, uh,

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but you were quick to solve it. Um, So now

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we'll give the rest of our Patreon listeners, let's give

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them to the end of September. Yeah. We don't have

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much time, but we'll give the rest of our Patreon

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family until the end of September for their chance to win. Obviously,

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you're getting the prize, but let's share that prize. Right.

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Let's give three other listeners a chance. So listeners, if

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you have not done so yet, you can get this

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show early, ad-free, and more often than not, with additional content.

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And that's nothing to say of all the exclusive episodes

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we have for you there. So head to www.patreon.com slash afilmbuypodcast.

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Get access for as little as $ 3 a month. She

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doesn't know it yet, but coming up later, Amber is

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going to weigh in on five questions during the Patreon

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bonus segment of this episode. So if you're not listening

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to this on Patreon, you're going to miss the magic.

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Oh, boy.

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Neil Berger. I'm not familiar with a lot of his work.

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I'll just profess that now.

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Yeah, I picked when looking at another film of his

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to suggest, I picked the one that I was like, ooh,

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that sounds interesting. Because I haven't seen anything else that

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he's done.

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Are we going? Okay, so full disclosure. I've seen some

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of his work, but I have not seen the majority

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of it. And now you've got me curious. We've got

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to wait until the end of the show, but you've

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got to be curious. Are we going to pick the

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same film? We're going to find out.

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I bet we are.

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But before we get there, let's talk. I know you

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don't know these three things about Neil Berger. Uh-huh. I

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don't know anything. This guy is mysterious. There's not a

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lot to dig up on him.

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He's another one of those directors that we've got that

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is like an enigma.

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Yeah. Well, I was able to unearth a couple fun

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things about him. And I got a quote from the man. Um,

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let's start with this one. Neil Berger born on the

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fateful date of November 22nd, 1963. Wow. Yeah. Uh, I mean,

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sometimes you, you know, you, you get excited for your birthday,

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but when one of history's most infamous events takes place

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on your birthday, that's definitely gonna Overshadowed.

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It's not just November 22nd. It was the day.

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The day, yeah.

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Every birthday is overshadowed by that.

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Well, after directing a few music videos, he actually approached

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MTV with an idea to direct some promotional videos. Remember

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the old PSAs that we grew up on?

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Yeah.

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So these things ultimately became... the MTV Books Feed Your

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Head campaign in 1991. Berger shot three 60-second videos, which

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featured Sherilyn Finn, Timothy Hutton, and Aidan Quinn reading passages

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from books. The campaign was created to entice people to

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read more often. Berger actually said of the project, and

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I'm quoting him here, they're aimed at people who know

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how to read, but who don't because they're too busy

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or too They think that reading is boring. The idea

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behind the spots is that reading is as cool or

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as entertaining or as sexy or as fun or as

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weird or scary or whatever as their favorite TV show

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or favorite rock band. I like it. I don't think

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I've ever said one sentence. I've never read a sentence

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that had the word or in it.

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Right.

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But I'm quoting him. Yes. Amber, he also worked with

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the Ridley Scott Creative Group, directing commercials for MasterCard, IBM,

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and ESPN.

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Interesting.

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Yeah. Now, on filmmaking, I quoted him, but here's the quote.

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On filmmaking, Neil Berger has this to say, I know

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the movies that I've liked, and I know the experience

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that they've given me. So the goal is always to

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try to create a movie that I would like myself,

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and that would knock me out, challenge me, or intrigue

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me in some way. That's been my criteria for figuring

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out what I want to do, or also when I'm

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writing something or creating a scene. I am excited to

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find out if the illusionist, if you liked it, if

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it knocked you out, if it challenged or intrigued you, Amber.

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So let's start our conversation, but let's start with your

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not favorite thing. The five-word synopsis. Amber, who did such

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an amazing job deciphering the Patreon challenge last week, what

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is the illusionist all about using exactly five words?

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Magician saves lover with illusions. But I feel like I'm

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wrong because I shouldn't have used the word illusion.

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I'm going to– judges, yeah, we're going to allow that

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because you can't use the movie title. So you used

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the word illusions. You did not use the word illusionist.

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But I feel like I.

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Should have cracked out the thesaurus and come up with– Maybe.

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But you still– you get by on this one. You

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just can't use– you can't use character names. You can't

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use actor, actresses' names, and you can't use movie title names,

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words from the movie title. But we're going to go

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with that. I got one for you. How about– Romance

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motivates clever, magical deception.

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Oh, I like that one so much better.

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Thank you. Thank you. I like that one.

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You win this round.

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Okay. Well, thank you. So let's talk about this. It

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arrives in theaters a few months ahead of The Prestige.

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It does $ 87. 8 million on a budget of $ 16. 5 million.

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And that's like in August. And then in October, The

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Prestige does $ 109 million on a budget of $ 40 million.

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So if you want to crunch the numbers, technically The

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Illusionist makes about $ 2 million more. But we remember The

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Prestige while we've forgotten The Illusionist.

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So.

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Help me out here because both these films have incredible casts.

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They're both Oscar nominated. Both are very well shot. So

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is Christopher Nolan the deciding factor here on why we

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remember one and kind of forget the other?

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For the public at large, it would have to be

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because I've never forgotten this movie. Okay.

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Yeah.

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I love this movie.

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Yeah, so true cinephiles. I know a true cinephile, a

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movie geek, you're going to say The Illusionist, and they're

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going to tell you who starred in it and what

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it did at the box office its opening weekend. But

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general public, the general movie going public, I think most often,

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like you talk about magic movies, this one kind of–

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it falls– it gets lost in the shuffle.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. I– It makes me sad for this movie because

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it's such a fantastic film.

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Same, yes.

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Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break because I want

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to talk about the casting career a little bit, and

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I know you do too.

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Oh, yes.

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We'll be right back. Welcome back. Amber Lewis and I

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are discussing The Illusionist, the 2006 film by director Neil Berger.

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I never do this, Amber. Never. We always talk about

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cast and crew. We rarely mention crew. I'm starting with crew.

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Can we talk about Dick Pope for a minute?

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Yes, I was going to say, especially if we're going

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to start with him.

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Okay, okay. Amber's excited about Dick Pope here, the director

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of photography. Let's just open on the movie's opening. I

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think the sepia-toned color palette and the lighting he's using

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is gorgeous.

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Well, the whole flashback sequence is lit. like from behind.

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So it kind of looks like you're watching one of

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those old, like, yes.

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Like, Oh, I can't think of a flame type of, yeah,

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I know. Yeah. Like a 10 type type of, you know,

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turn of the century movie.

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Or something like first ever, you know, um, cinematograph or

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something like that.

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Yeah.

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It's just, it's like, and it's such a subtle, but

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good effect. And I just love it.

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I never thought I'd appreciate browns and beiges and golds

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the way I do.

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It when I watch this movie. It sounds boring, but

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this movie is so beautiful.

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It absolutely is. Pope is nominated for Best Cinematography at

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the 79th Academy Awards.

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He's up against.

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He's up against Wally Pfister.

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The raw year.

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I mean, the poor guy. Yeah, he's up against Wally

229
00:13:39.740 --> 00:13:44.659
Pfister for the Prestige. And both of them lose to

230
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.710
Guillermo del Varo. And I know you know who he is.

231
00:13:48.049 --> 00:13:49.490
For Pan's Labyrinth.

232
00:13:49.690 --> 00:13:50.309
Yeah.

233
00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:52.590
Who's going to win against that?

234
00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:57.049
It's a murderer's row. You got Pan's Labyrinth and the

235
00:13:57.090 --> 00:14:00.330
Prestige and the Illusionist. It's a tough break for Dick Pope,

236
00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:00.629
I think.

237
00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:01.409
Yes.

238
00:14:02.419 --> 00:14:06.120
Absolutely love... I love what he did with this film, though.

239
00:14:06.340 --> 00:14:08.120
It's just beautiful. Beautiful to watch.

240
00:14:08.649 --> 00:14:13.289
It's absolutely gorgeous. And the way that he worked with

241
00:14:13.830 --> 00:14:17.529
the production design and the costuming and made everything just

242
00:14:17.570 --> 00:14:23.019
look its best. And, you know, atmospheric and the whole thing.

243
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:25.779
I love the way this movie looks.

244
00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.659
Let's talk leading men. Last week, we were talking about

245
00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.190
characters like Professor Borden. And the great Danton.

246
00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:36.210
Yes.

247
00:14:36.669 --> 00:14:38.649
How about Eisenheim the Illusionist?

248
00:14:39.110 --> 00:14:40.450
What a great name.

249
00:14:40.570 --> 00:14:41.549
I think he wins.

250
00:14:41.870 --> 00:14:43.909
I think he wins. He wins, right?

251
00:14:44.029 --> 00:14:49.259
Edward Norton playing Eisenheim. So the character is based off

252
00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:54.000
of Erik Jan Hannesen. Do you know that name, Amber?

253
00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:54.740
I do not.

254
00:14:55.679 --> 00:15:00.360
Okay. So he was an Austrian clairvoyant who was known

255
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.370
for being a hypnotist. an occultist, an astrologer, and oddly enough,

256
00:15:08.269 --> 00:15:11.960
he treated Adolf Hitler for his depression. He's not a

257
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.980
medical doctor, but he's treating Hitler for reasons we don't know. Wow.

258
00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:18.860
Very strange. I don't get any of that from Edward

259
00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:25.460
Norton's performance as Eisenheim, but maybe like the hypnotist, the mentalist.

260
00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.820
What I think is interesting is that it's so easy

261
00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:35.230
for magicians to sort of slide into you know, seances

262
00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:38.769
and things like that, like that quite often happens. And

263
00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:42.309
I usually just roll my eyes and like, it's such

264
00:15:42.409 --> 00:15:44.250
a charlatan bogus thing.

265
00:15:44.269 --> 00:15:46.460
But it works. It's snake oil.

266
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:47.240
It does.

267
00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:49.009
Well, it has, yeah, it has to, it has to.

268
00:15:49.029 --> 00:15:51.779
And I want to get into that. I definitely want

269
00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:53.899
to get into that. Uh, he, he goes, Edward Norton

270
00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:58.940
goes a little method, uh, by performing his own magic tricks. Uh, well,

271
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.580
he's being coached by James Friedman, who is a sleight

272
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.259
of hand entertainer and magician, uh, also known as the

273
00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.590
world's number one pickpocket.

274
00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:12.029
Yes. Which is so important. That guy picked the pocket

275
00:16:12.090 --> 00:16:15.090
of like, like the mayor of New York or no,

276
00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:15.889
the mayor of London.

277
00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:18.470
And are you kidding? Oh, okay. So he's like done this, like,

278
00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:23.149
like real people, big, big, big shots. Wow. I guess,

279
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:25.139
I guess he's never skipping out on a lunch tab.

280
00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:26.179
He's always got money, right?

281
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:27.899
Yeah. That's the case.

282
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.250
I'll tell you, I think, I think, You and I

283
00:16:31.250 --> 00:16:33.129
have talked– I don't know if– I can't remember what

284
00:16:33.169 --> 00:16:36.669
pod specifically it's been on or if it's just been

285
00:16:36.710 --> 00:16:40.220
in casual conversation, but Paul Giamatti.

286
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:41.759
Oh, my gosh.

287
00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:43.820
Who's just so fun to watch.

288
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:45.559
Well, we did Sideways together, no?

289
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:47.899
That's right. Yeah, you and I did– no, we didn't

290
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.740
do Sideways. We did– we haven't done Sideways yet. No? No.

291
00:16:53.539 --> 00:16:56.559
We did Election by Alexander Payne. We talked about Sideways.

292
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.080
Maybe that's what it was. Yeah.

293
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:02.159
Okay, so he's playing Chief Inspector, is it Hugh?

294
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:02.980
Ewell.

295
00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:04.500
Ewell, okay.

296
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.609
He, for me, is this entire movie.

297
00:17:08.369 --> 00:17:10.890
Okay, so we're just going to shine a spotlight on

298
00:17:10.930 --> 00:17:15.250
him because that's, you know, that's the choice. Go back

299
00:17:15.269 --> 00:17:18.230
to your first time watching this. Did you have the

300
00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.750
feeling like, and it's been a long time since I've

301
00:17:21.769 --> 00:17:25.529
seen this, so I don't remember every frame of the movie.

302
00:17:26.180 --> 00:17:28.079
Oh, I do. I watch this movie all the time.

303
00:17:28.220 --> 00:17:31.829
Okay, okay. Well, think back to your original viewing then,

304
00:17:31.869 --> 00:17:34.289
the first time you've seen this. Because I'm watching and

305
00:17:34.309 --> 00:17:37.970
I'm like, can we trust him? Think back to how

306
00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:39.730
you felt about him the first time you watched this movie.

307
00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:44.490
I don't know. I was so enamored with Paul Giamatti's

308
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.420
performance and what he does with his voice and the

309
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.460
accent and everything that I think I was completely... sold

310
00:17:53.619 --> 00:17:56.140
on the character, even though I, there are times at

311
00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:59.240
which he's a little opportunist.

312
00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:00.769
Yeah.

313
00:18:00.789 --> 00:18:05.990
Um, but I, I just, I think he is such

314
00:18:06.029 --> 00:18:09.710
a good guy on the inside that even when he's

315
00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:12.450
making questionable choices, you're still like, yeah, but you're a

316
00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:13.890
good guy. You're going to do the right thing at

317
00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:14.349
some point.

318
00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.710
It's a movie like this, like when, especially when it's

319
00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:21.190
dealing with magic and illusions, part of the fun is

320
00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:25.359
that certain characters, um, you think that they are someone

321
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:28.140
when in reality they're not. And I feel like we're

322
00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:32.220
meant to think he's like the, the crown Prince's stooge,

323
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.960
you know, his, his heavy, but you know, Paul Giamatti's character,

324
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.640
you know, he's got, he's got his honor. He's got his,

325
00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:44.569
you know, respect for the, the, you know, for the,

326
00:18:45.509 --> 00:18:48.670
for the role as chief inspector. So he's going to

327
00:18:48.690 --> 00:18:49.309
do the right thing.

328
00:18:49.609 --> 00:18:49.809
Yeah.

329
00:18:49.829 --> 00:18:51.769
And for the truth. Yeah. For justice and for the truth.

330
00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:52.410
Yes.

331
00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.690
I love watching this for Paul Giamatti mainly.

332
00:18:57.710 --> 00:19:01.279
Yeah. I mean, it's just amazing.

333
00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:04.940
You fight with yourself because you're agreeing with him at times,

334
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.619
you're disagreeing with him at times, and you just want

335
00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.759
him to land on what's right. Yes.

336
00:19:11.369 --> 00:19:14.450
But I think you also see kind of the position

337
00:19:14.490 --> 00:19:18.910
that he's in with the crown prince where, I mean,

338
00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:20.730
you can only push back so hard.

339
00:19:21.009 --> 00:19:21.410
Well, yeah.

340
00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:23.839
Kiddo. This guy's pretty ruthless.

341
00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:27.019
Yeah. So far you can take it with the boss, right?

342
00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:31.160
Yeah.

343
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:35.319
I'm curious what you, I would be curious what you

344
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:40.490
think about Liv Tyler. But she did drop out of

345
00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:45.250
the film like a week before principal photography begins. And

346
00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:48.410
they are fortunate because Jessica Biel jumps in to the

347
00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.039
role of Duchess Sophie von Teschen.

348
00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:53.480
Yeah.

349
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:55.339
Not, not, not.

350
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.299
She's pretty. She's pretty. She's fine.

351
00:19:57.940 --> 00:19:58.700
Do we do? Okay.

352
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.019
Well, yeah, but I think much more interesting.

353
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:04.160
We need more.

354
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:05.960
I wish I didn't ever knew that.

355
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:11.380
I'm sorry. I am sorry to I was.

356
00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:14.420
Accepting Jessica Biel, but... Now you.

357
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.039
Know you could have had Liv Tyler.

358
00:20:16.099 --> 00:20:18.279
Now I know I could have had Liv Tyler. I'm like, damn.

359
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.529
Yeah. So not... Is it Jessica Biel in this role

360
00:20:22.549 --> 00:20:24.549
or is it just Jessica Biel in general that, you know,

361
00:20:25.470 --> 00:20:25.869
in her film work?

362
00:20:25.890 --> 00:20:29.509
I just said generally she just doesn't really do anything

363
00:20:29.549 --> 00:20:30.349
for me. Yeah.

364
00:20:30.549 --> 00:20:32.349
Okay. All right. That's fair.

365
00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:34.970
But she's... I love this movie so much. And like,

366
00:20:35.059 --> 00:20:38.680
she's pretty and... You know, she's the trophy that we're

367
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:39.640
going for, so it's fine.

368
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:43.579
Is she believable? Like, listen, it's, what is it, 1900

369
00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:45.579
is the year the movie takes place, I think?

370
00:20:45.619 --> 00:20:47.279
I think it's before that, but yeah.

371
00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:49.539
Like, turn of the century-ish.

372
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:50.759
Yeah.

373
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.250
This is a time, Amber, when maybe women are not

374
00:20:55.410 --> 00:20:59.109
speaking their minds and standing up for themselves, but I

375
00:20:59.490 --> 00:21:02.950
buy into her. Yes. The way she speaks to the

376
00:21:02.970 --> 00:21:04.589
crown prince. I get it.

377
00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:10.210
I love the subtle way that in her first interaction

378
00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.329
with the crown prince, you see that like, there is

379
00:21:13.410 --> 00:21:17.990
no love there. She's just like, she, the way she

380
00:21:18.029 --> 00:21:21.119
just looks at him and gets up and walks to

381
00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:23.819
the stage. I'm like, so we know everything we need

382
00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:25.480
to know about their relationship.

383
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.279
Yeah.

384
00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:26.759
Right there.

385
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:32.359
Very, very prearranged. Very, uh, yeah, very much, uh, a

386
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:37.450
marriage of convenience. Uh, the character, uh, of Sophie was

387
00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:45.509
based on Baroness Marie Alexandrine von Vetsera. I just think

388
00:21:45.549 --> 00:21:48.890
it's cool because she was a Baroness. I immediately went

389
00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:55.589
to G.I. Joe. Vetsera was an Austrian noblewoman who was

390
00:21:55.630 --> 00:21:59.609
in fact the mistress of Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria.

391
00:21:59.630 --> 00:22:01.049
Oh boy.

392
00:22:02.250 --> 00:22:05.990
So we got some fun It's an intrigue.

393
00:22:06.150 --> 00:22:06.549
Yeah.

394
00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:12.849
Um, movie also stars Rufus Sewell as crown Prince Leopold.

395
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:16.920
And I love him so much. And he's always such

396
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.460
a rat bastard in like everything he does.

397
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:24.640
The last time we spoke about him, uh, you and

398
00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:27.660
Angela Norris, we were talking about, uh, Tristan and his old,

399
00:22:28.710 --> 00:22:31.150
where he basically is playing the same guy. He's like

400
00:22:31.190 --> 00:22:35.759
a high, like the, you know, royalty, uh, He's got

401
00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:39.410
the girl who is secretly having an affair on the side.

402
00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:43.970
Can this guy ever catch a break? I mean, is

403
00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:46.509
he that? What is it about Rufus Sewell where he

404
00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.539
always has to play the cuck? I don't get it.

405
00:22:48.710 --> 00:22:50.339
I just don't get it.

406
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.380
I mean, he's a turd in this movie, the character. Oh,

407
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:55.500
he's horrible. He deserves what he gets.

408
00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.569
He's sexy as hell, but he's such a horrible person

409
00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:03.809
in this movie. And he always plays a bad guy,

410
00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:05.029
but bad guys are more fun.

411
00:23:05.569 --> 00:23:06.319
Bad guys are fun.

412
00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:07.220
Can't blame him.

413
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.859
I'll tell you who typically plays a bad guy is

414
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:14.740
Eddie Marson, who's also in this playing Fisher. He's Eisenheim's

415
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.339
stage manager.

416
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.039
He's so funny in this.

417
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:21.069
I love him. It's nice to see him not play

418
00:23:21.089 --> 00:23:23.910
the bad guy or not play a villainous character. And

419
00:23:24.069 --> 00:23:27.289
he's so fun in this. He's heartwarming in a way.

420
00:23:28.529 --> 00:23:30.490
I almost wanted to shine the spotlight on him, but

421
00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:33.460
I was like, Giamatti's just doing too much work here.

422
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:34.759
He's so good.

423
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.880
And Marcin's just kind of, he's in it. And then

424
00:23:37.900 --> 00:23:39.859
we get a whole section of the film where he's

425
00:23:40.339 --> 00:23:44.589
nowhere to be found. And he's back. But I love it.

426
00:23:46.089 --> 00:23:50.230
You know, I'm watching this. And again, you watch it

427
00:23:50.650 --> 00:23:51.150
all the time.

428
00:23:51.170 --> 00:23:52.009
A lot.

429
00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:55.930
And you know this already. But what I was surprised about,

430
00:23:57.170 --> 00:24:01.640
I happen to be a huge fan Of Aaron Taylor Johnson.

431
00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:05.670
And I'm watching this the other day. In the beginning,

432
00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:08.529
you know, when we're talking about the way they shot

433
00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:13.039
the flashbacks. I'm looking at the kid who's playing the

434
00:24:13.099 --> 00:24:16.779
young Eisenheim. And I was like, damn, he looks so familiar.

435
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.200
He's such a baby. I couldn't place it.

436
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.720
Yeah.

437
00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:24.640
That's Aaron Taylor Johnson. He was just a kid playing

438
00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:29.289
the Eisenheim role. Yes. And then I started looking. I

439
00:24:29.289 --> 00:24:31.150
was like, well, wait. Was this like his first movie?

440
00:24:31.970 --> 00:24:33.430
And it turns out, like I guess a year or

441
00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:37.019
two before, he's in Shanghai Nights with Jackie Chan and

442
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:37.470
Owen Wilson.

443
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:38.720
Oh, really? Yeah.

444
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.059
I got to go back and watch that and see

445
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:40.900
where he's at in that.

446
00:24:40.940 --> 00:24:42.160
Right? Yeah.

447
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:44.140
It's just kind of cool to see him. Yes. When

448
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.319
you think about who he is now and, you know,

449
00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:52.000
blockbuster star. I think he did all these kid actor roles.

450
00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:54.640
And then all of a sudden he shows up in Kick-Ass,

451
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:57.460
which was, I want to say, like 2010. Yeah. kind

452
00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.039
of puts him on the map. And from there, he,

453
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:00.240
he joins the MCU.

454
00:25:00.259 --> 00:25:02.460
I was going to say, I remember him as Quicksilver.

455
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:09.369
Yeah. He's Quicksilver. He's, you know, he was bullet train Godzilla. Yeah.

456
00:25:09.890 --> 00:25:12.170
I look, people can hate on Craven all they want,

457
00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:15.049
but he was awesome in Craven. I'm not telling people

458
00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:17.990
to go watch it. Cause it's an acquired taste, but he,

459
00:25:19.009 --> 00:25:21.670
he was awesome. So that's all, that's all I got

460
00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:24.039
to say about Angela Johnson. A couple of things about

461
00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:28.099
this movie. Uh, and, I'm going to tell you one,

462
00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:30.200
and then, Amber, I'm going to pause because I know

463
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.980
you know something about the background of this movie that

464
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.680
you're just excited to talk about.

465
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:37.119
Okay.

466
00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:39.349
So I'm going to give you that. I want to

467
00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:39.769
give you that.

468
00:25:40.549 --> 00:25:40.890
Okay.

469
00:25:41.509 --> 00:25:43.769
But as you know, the film is based on the

470
00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:49.210
short story Eisenheim the Illusionist by author Stephen Milhauser from

471
00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:52.269
his 1990 collection of short stories, The Barnum Museum.

472
00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.049
Which is supposed to be just a bang-in collection, right?

473
00:25:57.210 --> 00:25:58.670
They've got great reviews.

474
00:25:59.329 --> 00:26:01.250
I think you and I need to run to Borders

475
00:26:01.650 --> 00:26:04.250
or the local bookstore. We need to get that. We

476
00:26:04.269 --> 00:26:07.230
need to get The Prestige by Christopher Priest. We need

477
00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:08.589
to just go, you know.

478
00:26:09.150 --> 00:26:09.309
Yep.

479
00:26:10.269 --> 00:26:13.509
I've said it before. Like Wayne White does the Star

480
00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:16.130
Trek book reviews on our website. We ought to do

481
00:26:16.170 --> 00:26:19.539
like an episode, like a book review episode. Ooh, that

482
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.059
would be fun. Adapted to film. I think that would

483
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:23.920
be kind of fun. Let's look at that.

484
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:24.819
Well, add that to the list.

485
00:26:25.609 --> 00:26:28.730
Let's look at that next season. Listeners, I don't know.

486
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.299
Can we do some book talk? You let us know.

487
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:34.799
Email us, drop us a comment, whatever you're listening on.

488
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.920
I'm curious now. Amber, do you want to tell us...

489
00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:46.130
Friedman wasn't the only person helping these guys on set. Oh, no!

490
00:26:46.150 --> 00:26:47.289
You want to talk about this?

491
00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:50.849
My boy, Ricky Jay, was helping them out as well.

492
00:26:51.849 --> 00:26:55.490
Ricky Jay... is a technical advisor on the film.

493
00:26:55.630 --> 00:26:57.670
He's the guy I'm telling you.

494
00:26:58.009 --> 00:27:02.369
This dude is a technical advisor on the prestige and

495
00:27:02.490 --> 00:27:05.849
the illusionist in the same year. And I dig that.

496
00:27:06.549 --> 00:27:07.349
It's so cool.

497
00:27:07.769 --> 00:27:10.089
Like, I always thought like the connection with the connection

498
00:27:10.109 --> 00:27:12.250
between these movies is like, Hey, they're both magic movies

499
00:27:12.269 --> 00:27:14.930
that come out. They're both period movies, magic movies that

500
00:27:14.950 --> 00:27:17.619
came out the same year. If you told me like

501
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.119
there was one person tying them together, I never would

502
00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:22.259
have believed it. And of all people, it's Ricky Jay.

503
00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:25.789
Well, and it's so funny. It must just be that

504
00:27:25.869 --> 00:27:29.609
he's just so amazing because you would think there'd be

505
00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:31.339
some kind of conflict of interest.

506
00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:32.599
You would think.

507
00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:36.980
But I think he's just so awesome that they're like, ah,

508
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.359
we have to have him. Who cares?

509
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.359
Yeah. I quote our friend Chuck Bryan, Ricky Jay, cooler

510
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:43.980
than the other side of the pillow.

511
00:27:44.009 --> 00:27:44.900
Absolutely.

512
00:27:47.609 --> 00:27:50.690
I got one more interesting little tidbit here for you.

513
00:27:51.670 --> 00:27:57.799
Back in October of 2024, composer Andrew Lloyd Webber announced

514
00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:01.940
that he intends to adapt this movie into a stage musical.

515
00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:05.799
So somebody better get Robert Burnett on the phone because

516
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.940
I'm sure he'll need his own technical advisor. And I

517
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.059
can think of no one better. But I would love

518
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:11.319
to see this.

519
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.019
The last I heard, Jamie Lloyd, who is the hottest–

520
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.380
theater director going right now uh was was tapped to

521
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:20.059
direct it.

522
00:28:20.059 --> 00:28:24.079
So oh okay i if this happens and it comes

523
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.369
to you or near us let's that's a film a

524
00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:29.210
film by goes to the theater that night like we

525
00:28:29.250 --> 00:28:31.410
all gotta go i would love this i'd love to

526
00:28:31.450 --> 00:28:34.150
see this that'd be fantastic all right well let's take

527
00:28:34.250 --> 00:28:36.890
let's take a break amber because uh i know there's

528
00:28:36.930 --> 00:28:38.049
a scene you want to talk about there's a scene

529
00:28:38.089 --> 00:28:42.720
i want to talk about something tells me they could

530
00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:45.369
be the same scene I don't know. For me, there's

531
00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:49.410
only one. Oh, okay. We've been in sync a lot lately,

532
00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:56.819
so we'll see right when we get back. Okay. Amber,

533
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.200
are we talking about the pivotal moment? Are we talking

534
00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:05.559
about a strong performance? Are we talking about Berger's direction?

535
00:29:05.900 --> 00:29:10.460
Is it Pope's cinematography? Why did you pick the scene

536
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:11.230
that you want to talk about?

537
00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:15.130
So, it's a little bit Just all of it. It's

538
00:29:15.369 --> 00:29:18.920
mostly the performance. And also, I have to give a

539
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.859
shout out to Philip Glass's soundtrack. I love this soundtrack.

540
00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:28.140
You know, we should have mentioned Philip Glass because this is,

541
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.309
it's some good stuff. It's some good music. It's amazing.

542
00:29:31.329 --> 00:29:33.250
I listen to it a lot.

543
00:29:33.769 --> 00:29:37.589
He captures the period really well, I think, with his score. Absolutely.

544
00:29:37.609 --> 00:29:40.279
This is one, you own it, I don't. i don't

545
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:43.440
own this one i'm gonna change that but you know

546
00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:46.539
how some dvds and blu-rays they they have the isolated

547
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:50.720
uh score um yes where you can just watch the

548
00:29:50.740 --> 00:29:52.900
movie with just the score i think this would be

549
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:53.799
a good one to watch like.

550
00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:57.640
That it really really would and it is a crucial

551
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.569
piece to the scene that I like.

552
00:30:01.130 --> 00:30:02.329
Okay, well, let's talk about this scene.

553
00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:06.940
So for me, this whole movie for me boils down

554
00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:12.380
to the scene at the end when Uel figures everything out.

555
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:14.140
Oh, yes.

556
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:19.150
From the moment the kid gives him the envelope until

557
00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:23.589
the end. Like, Paul Giamatti's face is so expressive, and

558
00:30:23.630 --> 00:30:28.619
it's really hard because... what he's giving you is someone

559
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.849
who is thinking and putting the pieces of the puzzle

560
00:30:31.910 --> 00:30:36.890
together in their head. As you're watching these flashbacks showing

561
00:30:36.930 --> 00:30:41.690
you what ha what really happened. And that's really hard

562
00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:44.509
to do with no dialogue, nothing to play off of.

563
00:30:44.529 --> 00:30:49.759
And like the fact that all is like, he's so

564
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.660
happy about it. He's so tickled that he figured it out.

565
00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:55.359
He's so happy about the way it turned out.

566
00:30:56.210 --> 00:31:00.589
Yeah, well, what really does it for me is that

567
00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:05.119
sweeping camera shot. Yes, where it rotates. Where it rotates

568
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:08.160
and he throws his head back laughing. And he claps.

569
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:08.859
Yes.

570
00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:10.880
He does that little clap. He's at a train station

571
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:17.789
by himself. He's giving Eisenheim like one final applause, right? Yes.

572
00:31:18.549 --> 00:31:21.470
That's a great scene, Amber. That is an absolutely great scene.

573
00:31:21.609 --> 00:31:23.210
I love it so much.

574
00:31:23.829 --> 00:31:24.990
I got one different.

575
00:31:25.609 --> 00:31:26.329
Oh, you do?

576
00:31:26.529 --> 00:31:29.470
Yeah. Well, I love the scene you talked about. It's

577
00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:30.690
a fantastic scene.

578
00:31:30.869 --> 00:31:31.089
Yes.

579
00:31:32.130 --> 00:31:36.230
The one I picked, I guess you could say it

580
00:31:37.089 --> 00:31:41.250
could be the pivotal moment, maybe for a character. And

581
00:31:41.269 --> 00:31:44.309
it's just something I love. I love this scene every

582
00:31:44.329 --> 00:31:47.410
time I watch it. I thought you and I might

583
00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:51.630
have the same one because of the subject matter that's introduced.

584
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.539
But can we talk about the Excalibur scene?

585
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:56.920
I knew you were going to say that.

586
00:31:57.019 --> 00:31:57.839
I almost jumped in.

587
00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:58.700
I knew.

588
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:06.089
I figured. So, okay. So, Eisenheim has some great illusions, right?

589
00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:08.710
Some great tricks. I think we might talk about that

590
00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:14.150
during the Patreon bonus stuff. But the Excalibur trick or

591
00:32:14.210 --> 00:32:17.890
that scene, you know, the Crown Prince invites him to

592
00:32:17.910 --> 00:32:22.829
perform at his home. He's got all his well-to-do society types,

593
00:32:23.509 --> 00:32:27.279
you know, there as his audience. And I feel like

594
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:30.329
this is a real pivotal moment for Eisenheim himself because

595
00:32:31.170 --> 00:32:36.829
he is openly challenging and mocking the crown prince in

596
00:32:36.910 --> 00:32:40.849
front of his revered guests doing this sword trick. And

597
00:32:41.329 --> 00:32:43.009
you've got to wonder, like, is this the moment where

598
00:32:43.049 --> 00:32:47.710
his hubris and his obsession starts to take hold of him,

599
00:32:47.890 --> 00:32:51.460
starts to show itself for what it is? Because he

600
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:52.720
clearly wants Sophie.

601
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.440
Well, and not only that, but by this time, he

602
00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:00.599
has talked to his manager and he knows that the

603
00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:05.210
prince is horrible. Like, we already think he's killed one person.

604
00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:07.789
Yeah, we assume he's killed one woman.

605
00:33:08.009 --> 00:33:10.089
We know he's abusive to other women.

606
00:33:10.109 --> 00:33:11.329
Yeah.

607
00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:14.250
And if he's not abusive to Sophie, it's only a

608
00:33:14.269 --> 00:33:18.269
matter of time. So, you know, even just foregoing the

609
00:33:18.309 --> 00:33:21.440
fact that Eisenheim's still in love with her, he's a

610
00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:22.519
horrible person.

611
00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:22.599
So.

612
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:26.259
And it's such a fun trip.

613
00:33:26.299 --> 00:33:28.640
It's hard to stand in front of somebody like that

614
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:32.079
and not know how you really feel.

615
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.480
Well, it's like we talked about how Ul has to

616
00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:38.960
mind himself a little bit. He can't just, you know.

617
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:39.259
Yes.

618
00:33:39.940 --> 00:33:41.700
He's got to watch what he says and how he

619
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:47.569
conducts himself around the prince. And again, for Eisenheim to

620
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.720
do what he does in this scene, you know, this

621
00:33:51.789 --> 00:33:56.690
is like two alphas in the room, right? Because, say

622
00:33:56.710 --> 00:34:01.009
what you will, Leopold, the crown prince, it's almost like

623
00:34:01.049 --> 00:34:04.430
he's wanting to be the act himself. He's kind of

624
00:34:04.470 --> 00:34:07.470
taking charge of the whole thing. Well, he wants to

625
00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:09.840
show how smart he is. Yeah, he wants to show

626
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:10.619
how smart he is.

627
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.840
To figure things out. Like, I know how you did

628
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:12.440
the trick.

629
00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:15.159
Yeah, and his guests are like, hey, let's just watch

630
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:15.579
the show.

631
00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:20.159
It's so boorish. Anybody that does that at a magic show,

632
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:25.280
it's like... mocking a comedian like why are you here

633
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:25.760
don't do.

634
00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:27.380
That yeah what don't we don't need a heckler but

635
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.460
it's like it's it's like it's like it's his party

636
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.280
and he wants to you know he wants to control

637
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:34.380
how things go but.

638
00:34:34.300 --> 00:34:37.570
Rufus sold us such a great job of playing insecure

639
00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:42.869
oh gosh yeah like it's so good well.

640
00:34:43.429 --> 00:34:45.409
I love the trick for for what it is because

641
00:34:45.829 --> 00:34:49.380
he you know like the you know leopold he challenges

642
00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:52.010
him says well let's How about you do something that

643
00:34:52.030 --> 00:34:54.869
you don't have prepared? He's like, okay, well, let me

644
00:34:54.889 --> 00:34:58.789
see your sword. So he takes his sword. He stands

645
00:34:58.829 --> 00:35:01.469
it up as he's telling the tale of Excalibur. We

646
00:35:01.510 --> 00:35:03.840
all know the story of Excalibur. He tells this audience.

647
00:35:04.699 --> 00:35:09.610
And then it's magically just standing upright. No one's touching it.

648
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:12.480
And then he, hey, only the worthy one can pull

649
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.500
it from the stone. Hey, you, sir, come try it.

650
00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:20.150
And no one can budge it. I like... That little

651
00:35:20.170 --> 00:35:24.070
moment that Sewell has as Leopold, the second guy shows up,

652
00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:26.539
he says, not too eager, cousin.

653
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:27.880
His cousin, yeah.

654
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:33.119
Yeah, his cousin. Amber, fun fact, based on who Leopold,

655
00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:36.860
if Leopold is actually based off of the real crown prince,

656
00:35:38.530 --> 00:35:40.030
the cousin would have been Franz Ferdinand.

657
00:35:40.789 --> 00:35:42.590
That's awesome.

658
00:35:43.010 --> 00:35:45.880
We're given all kinds of history here. history lessons to

659
00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:54.710
our listeners today. Learned all kinds of fun trivia. But

660
00:35:55.929 --> 00:36:00.280
the idea that he has, that Eisenheim has kind of

661
00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:04.360
harped on this whole worthy, only the worthy can pick

662
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.099
it up or can pull it. When you see Sewell's

663
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:14.929
face grimace because he can't budge it, And then, again,

664
00:36:15.369 --> 00:36:17.030
some of the subtle acting in this movie, you talked

665
00:36:17.050 --> 00:36:21.989
about Giamatti's face, but Edward Norton, just giving that little nod, like,

666
00:36:22.809 --> 00:36:26.550
now you may. Just between them two. And then he

667
00:36:26.590 --> 00:36:31.199
kind of hoists it, and it's laborious, you know?

668
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:31.940
Yes.

669
00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:36.039
And he's like, oh, look, see, the rightful owner of

670
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:40.679
the sword. Yes. So he gives him his accolade, but

671
00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:43.260
not before he He embarrasses him a little bit.

672
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:43.679
Yeah.

673
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:45.320
I love the scene for that.

674
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.840
It's really good.

675
00:36:47.739 --> 00:36:51.110
I think so, too. Man, I'll tell you what, this

676
00:36:51.139 --> 00:36:54.349
hour is going by quick. It is. Let's do one

677
00:36:54.389 --> 00:36:59.730
more break before we wrap things up. Unless you're listening

678
00:37:00.510 --> 00:37:04.889
to us on our Patreon, because you guys already know

679
00:37:05.309 --> 00:37:08.860
there are no ad breaks. And we've got some bonus stuff.

680
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.280
I'm going to give Amber five questions. We're going to

681
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:14.880
get the Amber Lewis voice of reason take. For those

682
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:16.510
of you listening on Patreon, and for those of you

683
00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:20.769
that aren't listening on Patreon yet, what are you doing?

684
00:37:20.829 --> 00:37:23.849
Come join us. As little as $ 3 a month. Right.

685
00:37:24.250 --> 00:37:26.789
Come on. But if you don't want to, that's cool.

686
00:37:27.389 --> 00:37:35.440
We'll be back in like 90 seconds. We are back. Amber,

687
00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:43.579
a spirited conversation for our Patreon bonus content there. thank

688
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:46.440
you for being such a fun sport. And I loved

689
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:49.519
everything that you said. Just was like, yep, that makes

690
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.860
perfect sense. Oh, thank you. So the fact that we

691
00:37:52.889 --> 00:37:58.190
got to dive a little bit deeper into this film

692
00:37:58.769 --> 00:38:02.849
with some questions that you weren't prepared to answer, I

693
00:38:03.150 --> 00:38:06.489
appreciate you for doing it. Now then, at the top

694
00:38:06.510 --> 00:38:09.269
of the hour, you and I were pretty straightforward. We

695
00:38:10.269 --> 00:38:15.619
have seen very little of Mr. Berger's filmography. So my

696
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:19.130
question to you, because he's done some big ones, like

697
00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:23.250
I think, I think if you don't know the name,

698
00:38:23.349 --> 00:38:27.110
you probably know Divergent, which is like probably his biggest, uh,

699
00:38:27.210 --> 00:38:31.150
blockbuster based off those books. I think Shailene, Shailene Woodley

700
00:38:31.250 --> 00:38:35.840
was in it. Wooly. Shailene. Um, I never saw it,

701
00:38:36.340 --> 00:38:40.300
you know, I, I did not either. Okay. We're not,

702
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.670
we're not fans. That's okay. but Neil Berger, Amber, if

703
00:38:45.710 --> 00:38:48.349
you were going to, if you're going to recommend an

704
00:38:48.469 --> 00:38:51.449
underrated project, and I know this is not easy because

705
00:38:51.469 --> 00:38:53.840
we truly, we haven't seen most of his stuff. So

706
00:38:53.860 --> 00:38:56.179
what do you, what do you, what are you going

707
00:38:56.199 --> 00:38:59.260
to recommend to someone that's interested in Neil Berger?

708
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:06.039
Well, so looking through his filmography, the name Ben Mendelsohn

709
00:39:06.139 --> 00:39:10.449
jumped out at me. He made a film with Daisy

710
00:39:10.489 --> 00:39:16.550
Ridley and Ben Mendelsohn. Called The Marsh King's Daughter. And

711
00:39:17.630 --> 00:39:20.409
I only watched part of the trailer because it seemed

712
00:39:20.449 --> 00:39:22.469
like maybe the trailer was going to reveal too much.

713
00:39:23.070 --> 00:39:25.860
And I didn't want to know. So I stopped it.

714
00:39:25.969 --> 00:39:29.690
But it's, I'm intrigued. And I, I really think it sounds,

715
00:39:30.269 --> 00:39:31.510
it sounds really interesting.

716
00:39:32.170 --> 00:39:33.829
You had me at Ben Mendelsohn.

717
00:39:34.269 --> 00:39:34.630
Right.

718
00:39:34.650 --> 00:39:38.739
That guy is awesome in everything he does. So, yes. Okay.

719
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:40.429
I'm definitely going to, I'm going to go on a

720
00:39:40.449 --> 00:39:43.599
burger kick here and I'm not talking about the delicious kind.

721
00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:46.159
I definitely want to see that now that you've mentioned it.

722
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.829
I've got one for you. In 2002, he did a

723
00:39:51.849 --> 00:39:56.750
movie called Interview with the Assassin. And I'll tell you what,

724
00:39:56.809 --> 00:39:59.840
we're wrapping things up. When we're finished here, go onto

725
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:05.719
YouTube or IMDb and watch this trailer. He shoots it

726
00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:10.400
like a pseudo-documentary film. And it's all about a man

727
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:15.090
claiming to be the second gunman that made the kill

728
00:40:15.130 --> 00:40:16.829
shot during the assassination of JFK.

729
00:40:18.610 --> 00:40:22.929
Wow. So I guess we know how having his birthday

730
00:40:23.010 --> 00:40:26.639
on that day affected the course of his life if

731
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:27.760
he's making this film.

732
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.840
He's making this movie. I'm telling you, I watched the

733
00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:34.579
trailer three times. It looks absolutely chilling.

734
00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:39.980
I'm obsessed. I love anything about the JFK assassination.

735
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.480
I'm so fascinated.

736
00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:41.860
I'm in.

737
00:40:41.900 --> 00:40:48.179
Yeah, it's like 40 years later, this filmmaker is... Interviewing

738
00:40:48.739 --> 00:40:52.900
this guy who claims he was on the grassy knoll

739
00:40:53.500 --> 00:40:58.980
behind the fence. And the way that, I mean, because

740
00:40:59.019 --> 00:41:02.400
it looks like just archival footage. And they're obviously, they're

741
00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:06.210
intercutting in the trailer. You're seeing intercutting of, you know,

742
00:41:06.369 --> 00:41:10.110
of President Kennedy and the Zapruder film, that kind of stuff. But,

743
00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:13.369
I mean, it's just, it's like, this guy's like ice

744
00:41:13.429 --> 00:41:16.889
cold the way he's talking about it. And it just

745
00:41:16.949 --> 00:41:21.489
looks like a really intense thriller, even though it's shot

746
00:41:21.550 --> 00:41:24.489
like something you'd watch on Discovery Channel. It's so cool looking.

747
00:41:25.190 --> 00:41:28.420
I'm watching it later tonight when we're wrapping things up

748
00:41:28.460 --> 00:41:32.300
here because it looks that good. Oh, my gosh. Yeah,

749
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:33.599
interview with the assassin.

750
00:41:33.619 --> 00:41:35.519
Interview with the assassin. Okay.

751
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:36.019
Check it out.

752
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:37.340
And the Marsh King's daughter.

753
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:41.929
And the Marsh King's daughter. And the illusionist. Yes. There's

754
00:41:41.949 --> 00:41:45.980
your Neil Berger triple feature for sure. Next time on

755
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.039
A Film By, we'll be talking about the most magical

756
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:56.590
film of 2001. It had to happen, Amber. We've been

757
00:41:56.610 --> 00:42:00.050
celebrating the films of 2001 and 2006. So obviously we're

758
00:42:00.070 --> 00:42:02.110
going to, you know, in a month all about magic

759
00:42:02.150 --> 00:42:04.710
and mystery, we're going to close it out as we

760
00:42:04.769 --> 00:42:09.929
head to Hogwarts for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Listeners,

761
00:42:10.730 --> 00:42:11.909
if you've seen it, everyone's seen it.

762
00:42:11.929 --> 00:42:12.250
I mean....

763
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.840
Listeners, how would you summarize it in exactly five words?

764
00:42:17.940 --> 00:42:20.460
I can't wait to hear what some of you have.

765
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:23.300
When you can only use five words to talk about

766
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:26.110
Harry Potter, that's going to be a fun one. Go

767
00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:32.110
to www.afilmbypodcast.com to give us your answer. Email us at

768
00:42:32.130 --> 00:42:37.489
afilmbypodcast at gmail.com or, I don't know, send us an owl.

769
00:42:37.869 --> 00:42:41.030
If we use your five-word synopsis on the show... We'll

770
00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:43.150
shout you out on the episode. We'll give you a

771
00:42:43.510 --> 00:42:47.650
film by swag. Please join us on social media. You

772
00:42:47.670 --> 00:42:52.380
will find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X. We love

773
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:57.340
interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking your requests for future episodes,

774
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:01.059
and debating great movies. Amber, I have had a blast

775
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:05.909
with you this month. I knew that we were going

776
00:43:05.929 --> 00:43:07.630
to talk about a couple of Nolan films. I knew

777
00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:09.400
we were going to The whole theme of this month

778
00:43:09.420 --> 00:43:10.800
was going to be about magic and mystery. And I

779
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:15.000
was like, this is right up Amber Lewis's alley. She's

780
00:43:15.019 --> 00:43:16.400
going to be a big fan of all these. So

781
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:21.079
thank you for joining me as often as you have

782
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.469
this month. And we got one more. Harry Potter's coming

783
00:43:25.510 --> 00:43:25.949
next week.

784
00:43:25.989 --> 00:43:27.570
So much fun.

785
00:43:28.250 --> 00:43:31.349
Yeah, it is so much fun. So thank you, Amber.

786
00:43:31.989 --> 00:43:34.630
And to all of you listening to the show, following

787
00:43:34.670 --> 00:43:39.239
us on social media, subscribing to and supporting us on Patreon.

788
00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.619
We absolutely thank you.