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Sept. 6, 2026

Christopher Nolan - Memento

Christopher Nolan - Memento

Mystery, Magic & Nolan! Jeff and Scott dive deep into Christopher Nolan's highly stylized, mind-bending 2001 film Memento! Unraveling this neo-noir thriller asks questions. Is Leonard the victim, or the villain? What really happened? How do we...

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Season 7
Mystery, Magic & Nolan!

Jeff and Scott dive deep into Christopher Nolan's highly stylized, mind-bending 2001 film Memento! Unraveling this neo-noir thriller asks questions. Is Leonard the victim, or the villain? What really happened? How do we feel about the story's resolution? For those of you that have seen and enjoy this mystery, we hope you'll enjoy this special episode. For those of you that haven't seen this one? ... buckle up!

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WEBVTT

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It's fantastic. It's, it's really cool because it's not, I

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don't think people immediately think insomnia for Christopher Nolan because he,

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he's known for writing and directing his stuff. He did

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not write insomnia. He directs it. He does not write it.

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All right.

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Well, Hey, but it still feels, it still feels very Nolan.

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I mean, you just sold me. I think it's one

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that I gotta, I gotta revisit.

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Well, speaking of the next time there's a visit, uh,

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next time on a film by we'll continue the Christopher

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Nolan conversation and, with Scott's pick, his 2006 magic thriller,

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The Prestige. So if you've seen it, how would you

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summarize it in exactly five words? You can go to www.afunbypodcast

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to give us your answer. Email us. If we use

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your five-word synopsis on the show, we will definitely shout

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you out on the episode, and we will give you

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some Afunby swag. As always, please join us on social media.

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You'll find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X. We love

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interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking your requests for future episodes,

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and debating great movies. All of you out there listening

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to the show, following us on the social media, subscribing

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to the Patreon, we thank you. Scott, I know how

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busy you are on our Star Trek-themed Phaser Sets a

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Stun series, so... thank you. I know you guys are

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really busy with the 60th anniversary and you're doing, you

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got what strange new world's happening right now. You're doing

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a trek right now.

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Yeah.

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A lot happening.

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So love that. Love that series. Yeah.

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I will. I want to thank you for taking time to, uh,

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to talk memento with me, but I do have one

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last question about Leonard.

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Yep.

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Is he the victim or is he the villain?

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He's the villain.

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Not an easy question. Uh, someone watches memento and they,

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they say, Hey, Christopher Nolan. I, I get it. He's,

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he's the guy he's loved. He's, he's the theater going

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experience guy, the IMAX guy, the blockbuster guy. But is

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there anything he's ever done? Is there anything he ever

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has written or directed? Maybe it was in that's maybe underrated.

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Maybe people don't talk about like, what would be your suggestion?

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for an underrated Christopher Nolan project that someone should definitely recommend.

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So I don't know if this qualifies as underrated. So

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you might say, like, Scott, no. When I look at

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his catalog, at least the ones that I've seen, the

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one I think of is The Prestige, because I don't

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feel like that gets the same attention that some of

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his other catalog does. And I think that's a similar

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kind of idea of something that just becomes something different

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every time you watch it. at least in my opinion.

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When I think of the big things that hit for him,

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it's obviously the Batman trilogy and Inception. Obviously, the Odyssey

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has just come out.

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Oppenheimer, Tenet.

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Yep, yep. Tons, right? So I feel like that one

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got mixed reviews when it came out, or that I

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don't hear people talk about it as much. So, I mean,

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that's my pick. What about you?

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How about one you hear people talk less about, 2002.

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He made this film right after Memento. 2002's Insomnia.

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That's with Al Pacino.

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Psychological thriller. Yeah, psychological thriller starring Academy Award winner Al Pacino,

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Academy Award winner Robin Williams, Academy Award winner Hilary Swank.

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And it is a highly underrated murder mystery.

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Is that with Robin Williams as kind of a villain character?

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Yeah, yeah. He is the villain. Pacino's the cop heading

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into Alaska to catch this serial killer. Hillary Swank's like

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the local law enforcement.

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Yep.

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This is one of– if you remember, this is a

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time when Robin Williams was doing some really incredible serious work.

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And he does Insomnia where he plays like a serial killer,

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and then he's also in One Hour Photo.

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That's what I was thinking of, yeah.

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Which is maybe one of the creepiest films ever. Robin

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Williams ever did.

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Hard for me to watch either of them. Honestly.

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It is, but he's so mesmerizing in them. Yeah, I

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would love... I have to believe that next time we

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talk Christopher Nolan, you know, next season or whenever, I'm

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sure we'll talk Insomnia at some point.

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Yeah.

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Because it's such an underrated film. That would be a

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fun one to talk about. The little bit I know

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offhand is Nolan, and this is early on in his career,

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he's got a hard time trying to deal with the

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methods that his stars want to use. And what I'm

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talking about, you have to remember, Pacino thrives on a

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lot of rehearsal. He wants meaningful conversations about the character's motivation.

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He's a theater guy. He wants a lot of takes.

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That's not Robin Williams. Robin Williams wants no rehearsal. He

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wants plenty of takes, but so that he can experiment

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and try different things. And then meanwhile, you got, you

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got Hillary Swank, who's just there to do a few

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takes and stay focused on doing good work. She, she's

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like the professor. She's the actor that's like, Hey, let's

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get in here. And we got seven shots to do today.

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Let's get it done. So no one has to just

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kind of let these guys find a compromise. So fantastic film.

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If you haven't, if you haven't seen insomnia, let me

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tell you a scene. Uh, There's so many scenes I

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could talk about. And it would almost be a disservice

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to many of them for me to pinpoint one. Aside

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from that great opening shot, I'm going to go with

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one that I think– I haven't asked her. But I

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would think that this one pissed Amber Lewis off. There's

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one shot that I just– is the prostitute scene necessary?

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And as you think about that, I will say this.

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Nolan– He argues for it. He has stated that it's

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relevant because it shows a moment where Leonard, and I

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kind of mentioned this earlier, Leonard is willfully manipulating himself, right?

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His present self is creating a situation that his future

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self will have to deal with. Because Nolan has also said,

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you know, people have asked, like, well, where does the memory,

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how long does the memories last? How far does he

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go before he starts, where he hits reset, right? And

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I love that Nolan... he's on the record saying, well,

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it really comes down to how long Leonard can focus

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on something, where he can put all his energy and

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his effort into it. And if you watch the film,

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it happens faster and faster because he's being overwhelmed. There's

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a lot going on. Think about the scene with Natalie

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where we see her walk in the door and she's

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clearly been assaulted. And she, hey, Dodd beat the hell

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out of me because I did what you asked me

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to do. And you're like, you know, we got to

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get Dodd, you know, and he's mad. He's ready to

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get Dodd. But then we find out moments later, he's

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the one that hit her. And she's like, you'll never remember.

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And she walks out the door and he's frantically trying

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to find a pen or anything to say, I got

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to remember that. I got to remember this. And all

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she does is she sits in her car for a

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couple minutes and then she opens the door, walks back in.

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And then he's like, what, what happened? What's going on?

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And now she's playing the victim.

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Yeah. And then there's that subtle, subtle thing that I,

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that I caught onto, but I wasn't quite sure why

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she was doing it. After she gets hit, she goes

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and takes all the pens and pencils.

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Yes.

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Yes. Puts them in her purse. Like, I know what

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I'm going to do.

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So that, the scene with the prostitute where he, like

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the present Leonard is basically saying, okay, when it, when

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all said and done, once, once I fall asleep, I

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need you to get up. I need you to go

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to the bathroom and slam the door hard enough that

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I'll wake up. And she's like, okay, whatever gets you off.

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It's your money, pal. Because what's going to happen, he

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wakes up, and now he doesn't know where he's at.

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He's in a hotel room, and he hears someone, and

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he opens the door, and there she is. And she's like, okay,

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how was it? And he's like, please leave. I need

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you to leave. Because future Leonard has now become present Leonard,

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who would never– He loves his wife. He's trying to

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find his wife's murderer. He would never do something heinous

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like this, right? So it's a moment where we have

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to loathe and like the character simultaneously, and it's a

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tough beat. And I think the delivery of the dialogue

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is a little clunky. The actors even talk about how

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it was just an awkward thing to shoot because they

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didn't know how to play it, and no one really

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got it. But no one was insistent. I don't think

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we need it, though.

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So my read of that scene, kind of thinking back

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to it, the items that he chooses are trying to

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trick him into thinking, I'm either in our bedroom, the

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bedroom with my wife, or my wife and I were

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at this hotel room and she put these things around

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to make us feel at home. And then I'm surprised

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to see that there is actually a prostitute. Yeah.

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And he's disgusted with himself.

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And he's seeing those flashes of what happened. And he's like,

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wait a second. So the guy that I've become is

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not seeking out vengeance for my wife. He's sleeping with

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a prostitute? Yeah. So it's almost like he's trying to

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get himself angry with himself again.

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Yes. Scott, let's take one last break. And when we

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get back, we'll start wrapping things up. We're going to

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discuss a scene. Scott has a scene that he'd like

184
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to talk about. The scene that you want to talk about,

185
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are we talking about it because of a strong performance?

186
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Is it the pivotal moment? Is it because of the cinematography?

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Is it something that pissed Amber Lewis off? Why are

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we talking about this scene, Scott?

189
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I don't want to piss off Amber Lewis.

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Well, it's not about pissing her off. It's about, did,

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do you think this, this scene pissed her off?

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Oh yeah, that's true. So it's interesting. Like when I

193
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thought about this and there are so many, I feel

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like key moments in here and the one that I'm

195
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going to choose might not seem that significant, but it's

196
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the one that just kept rolling in my head the

197
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entire time. And we've already talked about it, but for me,

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it really is that opening shot in.

199
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Reverse where, That brilliant opening shot.

200
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Yes. In a subsequent viewing, my second time watching it,

201
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it meant so much more. And it's something that I

202
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couldn't help but just kind of replay. I love the

203
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fact that the photo that you see is the first

204
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moment of kind of compromising trust a little bit or

205
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kind of maybe challenging your conventions. to say like, you

206
00:11:44.570 --> 00:11:46.610
think that you're watching this in real time, but you're

207
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seeing it fade, fade away, you know, um, Marty McFly style, um,

208
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as it keeps going forward. So you're being told, this

209
00:11:55.820 --> 00:11:58.960
is something that you're going to, this is something that's

210
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going to unravel. This is something that's not just going

211
00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.100
to be fed to you. It's something you're going to

212
00:12:03.139 --> 00:12:06.940
have to pack and understand. Um, I think it was

213
00:12:07.419 --> 00:12:10.519
beautiful cinematography. I think it was a beautiful use of

214
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of timing, because I think there are certain elements that

215
00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:16.350
they kind of play with speed and slow down or

216
00:12:16.409 --> 00:12:20.820
speed up for the need of the shot. But it

217
00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:22.919
does a beautiful job, I think, of setting the stage

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for a narrative told in reverse. And to me, it

219
00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.059
was like the chorus of a song that I just

220
00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:31.870
kept hearing over and over again as I was watching

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the movie after every reset, because I was so fixated

222
00:12:36.629 --> 00:12:41.289
on specifically the relationship between Teddy and Leonard. Um, I

223
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don't know. That's the one that stuck with me.

224
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Credit, credit to Joe Pantoliano for this, this shot, because

225
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no one is looking, how do I start this movie and,

226
00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.980
and just immediately get the audience's attention? How do I

227
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pull them in to where they can't let go? And

228
00:13:04.470 --> 00:13:06.649
someone being shot in the back of the head is pretty,

229
00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:12.000
that's a pretty, uh, harsh way to start a film

230
00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:15.820
and get your audience's attention. But you've got to be careful.

231
00:13:16.659 --> 00:13:18.759
We don't want it to be a gory movie. We

232
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don't want the scene to be gratuitously violent, right? So

233
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Pantoliano says, hey, I've got an idea. Let him shoot me.

234
00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:30.029
Let me start to turn my head. And then he

235
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shoots so that the glasses I'm wearing get knocked off

236
00:13:34.669 --> 00:13:38.090
my face. And you can let the camera focus on

237
00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:42.110
the glasses as opposed to to my brain splattered all

238
00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:45.529
over the wall. And that's the way the shot tracks.

239
00:13:47.149 --> 00:13:52.009
And it's brilliant. I don't want to say that it's artistic,

240
00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:55.250
but it is. Because I don't want to see a

241
00:13:56.210 --> 00:13:59.830
special effect where we see his brains get splattered all

242
00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:03.029
over the wall, but it's visually stimulating. The way that

243
00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:08.350
we follow the glasses being violently knocked off his head.

244
00:14:10.190 --> 00:14:13.450
I feel like there's also a little bit of vulnerability

245
00:14:13.470 --> 00:14:17.889
that that gives to Teddy. Because when we first meet him,

246
00:14:17.909 --> 00:14:20.009
we don't know who this guy is. It's just something

247
00:14:20.029 --> 00:14:22.720
that this guy is beating up and gets shot. But

248
00:14:22.779 --> 00:14:26.679
the fact that he loses his glasses, something he needs

249
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.100
to be able to function and get through his day, right?

250
00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.549
It's a hollow point going through his his temple knocks

251
00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:37.679
the glasses off i don't think he's gonna need much after.

252
00:14:37.529 --> 00:14:40.240
That but to your right yeah it's but like it's

253
00:14:40.340 --> 00:14:42.399
it's it's causing you to focus on the fact that

254
00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:44.100
like you know yeah i don't know who this guy

255
00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:47.879
is but he was in you know you even though

256
00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:49.539
he's a corpse even though he's had his you know

257
00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:52.779
face kind of blown off he he i feel like

258
00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:57.320
he's put in that role of vulnerability because he he

259
00:14:57.419 --> 00:15:00.000
loses the glasses and you're still not like did he

260
00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.679
kill the right guy That was a question I kept

261
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.220
asking a bunch in the beginning of the movie.

262
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.940
The opening of this movie, you have to ask yourself,

263
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.259
did I just see the victim get his revenge? Or

264
00:15:15.379 --> 00:15:20.279
did I see the villain execute the victim? And you

265
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.679
have to go along for the ride to find out

266
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:26.000
that answer. Right.

267
00:15:26.139 --> 00:15:27.480
And even with that, at the end of the movie,

268
00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:28.899
you're still questioning which one it is.

269
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:32.940
The fun of it, too... Again, talking about whether or

270
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.620
not we can trust Leonard, the fun of it is here,

271
00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:38.179
and I challenge you the next time you watch this,

272
00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:43.639
pay attention because each scene, each new scene begins where

273
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.600
the previous scene kind of left off, right?

274
00:15:47.139 --> 00:15:47.340
Right.

275
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.919
I don't know if you noticed this, but sometimes it's

276
00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:55.409
the exact same scene, and sometimes it's not. It's shot

277
00:15:55.429 --> 00:15:57.330
from a different camera angle. It's shot from a different perspective.

278
00:15:57.350 --> 00:15:57.929
Oh, interesting.

279
00:15:57.950 --> 00:16:02.220
That's a good point. You know, Leonard's using– he's using

280
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.139
these– he's got notes, he's got tattoos, he's got the

281
00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:09.120
Polaroid pictures. And this is his way of kind of

282
00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:10.710
creating evidence, right?

283
00:16:10.730 --> 00:16:11.549
Yeah.

284
00:16:12.490 --> 00:16:15.490
But we've also seen how he can manipulate this to

285
00:16:15.509 --> 00:16:18.649
kind of serve his current self as opposed to his

286
00:16:18.690 --> 00:16:22.950
future self at times in the movie. So I wrestle

287
00:16:22.970 --> 00:16:25.610
with the fact of how trustworthy he is.

288
00:16:26.509 --> 00:16:29.750
That's interesting because there are points– So you're talking about

289
00:16:29.789 --> 00:16:32.210
like the fact that occasionally he will write a note

290
00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:34.830
on one of these Polaroids and then he'll cross it

291
00:16:34.889 --> 00:16:38.389
unintentionally or he'll kind of be aware of the condition

292
00:16:38.409 --> 00:16:40.840
and kind of design it to kind of use himself? Yeah.

293
00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:44.100
So, well, okay. So he does both. Think about this.

294
00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.080
Because there's one scene I want to get to. I'm

295
00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:49.860
going to wait on it. Well, you know, we'll get

296
00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:54.549
to it. But to kind of illustrate my point, think

297
00:16:54.610 --> 00:16:58.840
about when Teddy– is trying to convince Leonard that Natalie

298
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.360
is no good.

299
00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:01.620
Right?

300
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.789
He's like, I want you to write this on the picture.

301
00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:09.170
What's he do? Well, he writes what Teddy asked him

302
00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:11.750
to do, but he also writes it in cursive. I

303
00:17:12.069 --> 00:17:13.069
don't know if you picked up on that.

304
00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:16.509
I did at the moment, but I didn't get the sequence.

305
00:17:17.029 --> 00:17:21.119
Everything he writes on a Polaroid is in this block print,

306
00:17:22.819 --> 00:17:26.609
except for that. And it's basically, it's like, hey, I'm

307
00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:30.589
going to give you what you're asking me to do.

308
00:17:31.529 --> 00:17:34.410
But it's a trick for a guy that knows that

309
00:17:34.670 --> 00:17:37.269
his memory is going to be gone in just a

310
00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:39.539
handful of minutes. He's going to look at that and

311
00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:41.839
he's going to, I didn't write that. I don't know

312
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.460
who wrote that, but I don't trust that. He specifically

313
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:50.759
writes in a different font. He's doing it purposely so

314
00:17:50.779 --> 00:17:54.390
that he knows... Hey, that's not right.

315
00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:56.970
And then we see him cross. Yeah.

316
00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:58.210
He crosses it out later.

317
00:17:58.470 --> 00:17:58.710
Right.

318
00:17:58.769 --> 00:17:58.930
Right.

319
00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:00.609
Yeah. Yeah.

320
00:18:01.529 --> 00:18:03.009
By the end of this movie, are you, are you

321
00:18:03.069 --> 00:18:07.549
satisfied with learning the truth or is it a situation

322
00:18:07.609 --> 00:18:11.470
where we are now forced to adopt Leonard's version of

323
00:18:11.490 --> 00:18:14.089
the truth? Cause he, if you think about it, by

324
00:18:14.130 --> 00:18:17.009
the end of this film, he has kind of, he's

325
00:18:17.049 --> 00:18:18.869
forcing us, we have to accept that he's creating an,

326
00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:22.690
he's basically creating a never ending loop for himself. Right.

327
00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:23.539
Right.

328
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.460
Teddy explains as much.

329
00:18:27.069 --> 00:18:27.289
Right.

330
00:18:27.789 --> 00:18:30.529
And that says some things about Teddy's motivations and how,

331
00:18:31.529 --> 00:18:33.630
how much of a good or bad guy he is.

332
00:18:33.769 --> 00:18:36.450
But I mean, the whole, the whole thing was Sammy,

333
00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:42.309
you know, remember Sammy Leonard is Sammy, this whole story

334
00:18:42.329 --> 00:18:45.950
that we keep hearing about, um, who is it? Uh,

335
00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:49.630
Steven Tobolowsky, you know, Ned, Ned, the head, Ned Ryerson.

336
00:18:49.809 --> 00:18:49.970
Yeah.

337
00:18:50.089 --> 00:18:55.190
Yeah. We see, and it's a different... It's black and white,

338
00:18:55.829 --> 00:18:58.849
but now it's not moving forward. It's a flashback in

339
00:18:58.869 --> 00:19:01.079
black and white. So now we're going one level lower.

340
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.339
It's becoming Inception because we're on a whole other level.

341
00:19:07.339 --> 00:19:12.940
Sammy is Leonard, though. Leonard's created this character. Yeah. And

342
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.970
if you think about it, that's who kills his wife.

343
00:19:17.329 --> 00:19:19.210
He is the one that killed his wife. So the

344
00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:23.700
story about Sammy's wife... you know, kind of testing Sammy

345
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.299
with the insulin shot. It was Leonard's wife that had

346
00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:32.960
the insulin. Go back and watch it. At one point

347
00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:35.369
he's remembering, think about this, at one point he's remembering her,

348
00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:38.170
she's sitting on the bed, she's like, ouch! And it's

349
00:19:38.210 --> 00:19:42.230
him pinching her. And then another time it's, ouch! And

350
00:19:42.269 --> 00:19:45.430
it's him poking her with a needle. Think about when

351
00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.369
he's doing the tattooing. Okay, so he goes to Emma's tattoo,

352
00:19:49.349 --> 00:19:50.740
which I thought was kind of cool. Cause that's just,

353
00:19:51.380 --> 00:19:53.859
that's just Christopher Nolan just throwing some love towards his wife,

354
00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:54.200
his wife.

355
00:19:54.220 --> 00:19:54.460
Yeah.

356
00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.279
Um, but in other times when he's talking on the phone,

357
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.019
you know, you've mentioned like, is he talking to someone

358
00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:02.900
or not? Cause I, he's clearly talking to Teddy. I

359
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:06.710
think I, I believe he's, he, Teddy's been manipulating the

360
00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:07.049
get go.

361
00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:07.750
Yeah.

362
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.380
But think about what he's doing while he's on the phone.

363
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:16.950
He's doing the jailhouse style with the ink pen. Watch

364
00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:20.490
how he handles that ink pen. If you have a

365
00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:23.970
hypodermic needle in your hand... He flicks it. He's flicking it, right?

366
00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:27.769
He's tapping it. He's treating that ink pen, that big

367
00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:31.380
ink pen, like it's a hypodermic needle. Like it's filled

368
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:35.259
with insulin and not just ink for his tattoo. It's

369
00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:39.640
the physical... It's the muscle memory. He's doing it without

370
00:20:39.700 --> 00:20:40.519
knowing that he's doing it.

371
00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:45.410
Interesting. And also to that point, like what you mentioned

372
00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:50.609
about the handwriting. Yeah. I feel like the Sammy Jenkins

373
00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:54.910
tattoo is similar. And I wonder if that's one of

374
00:20:54.950 --> 00:20:59.730
the first tattoos that he did for himself. It may

375
00:20:59.769 --> 00:21:03.009
have been the John G, the one that's written backwards, right?

376
00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:06.079
But I wonder if that's like, it's the first that

377
00:21:06.099 --> 00:21:09.380
he designed to tell himself. And every time he sees it,

378
00:21:10.339 --> 00:21:13.660
it's like it... I wonder if the Sammy story has

379
00:21:13.779 --> 00:21:15.259
changed for him over time.

380
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:19.480
It's why I had to ask you, is Leonard the

381
00:21:19.539 --> 00:21:26.259
victim or the villain? Because his actions, this muscle memory

382
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.220
he's creating for himself, it works for him and it

383
00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:31.099
works against him.

384
00:21:31.819 --> 00:21:32.500
Yeah, that's interesting.

385
00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:36.069
Especially by the end of this movie, Rather than accept

386
00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:39.730
the truth that Teddy, like it or not, Teddy gives him,

387
00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:42.910
he tells him the truth. This is what happened. This

388
00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:47.430
is what's going on. And he's so upset with that reality.

389
00:21:48.690 --> 00:21:53.799
He chooses self-exile, right? He chooses to stay in this

390
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.380
world where he will always have the mystery to find

391
00:21:57.460 --> 00:22:01.759
out who is John G. And who do I find

392
00:22:01.779 --> 00:22:05.829
that's going to help me? It's become cyclical. Yeah.

393
00:22:06.829 --> 00:22:08.970
This movie became so much more trippy than it was

394
00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:09.680
when I first saw it.

395
00:22:10.609 --> 00:22:13.150
Let's take, let's take another break. And when we get back,

396
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:19.819
I'm guessing you want to talk about a scene. Natalie,

397
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.400
she's one of the bigger mysteries of the movie because

398
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:29.549
she's that, I think at different times, different scenes, she,

399
00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:33.650
it's either, you know, his girl Friday, or she's the

400
00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:39.450
femme fatale. Or she's just repulsive. The moment she lashes

401
00:22:39.609 --> 00:22:42.289
out about Leonard's wife.

402
00:22:42.869 --> 00:22:43.069
Yeah.

403
00:22:44.049 --> 00:22:46.630
And he's like, don't talk about my wife like that.

404
00:22:47.490 --> 00:22:49.910
And she just ratchets it up a notch by saying,

405
00:22:50.809 --> 00:22:53.650
I can say whatever I want. And the best thing

406
00:22:53.690 --> 00:22:56.589
about it is a few minutes from now, you won't know.

407
00:22:57.349 --> 00:23:00.589
You won't remember. And you and I will be best friends.

408
00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:04.190
We may even be lovers. I could call her and

409
00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:11.170
she uses a pretty colorful language to describe his wife,

410
00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:15.690
his dead wife. And you're like, man, she's repulsive. She's

411
00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:16.890
such a terrible person.

412
00:23:17.509 --> 00:23:18.650
Yeah.

413
00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:21.829
And she's one of those people that will, does and

414
00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:24.410
will manipulate Leonard in the course of this movie.

415
00:23:25.269 --> 00:23:28.170
Yeah. Also, she spits in his beer. I mean, that's

416
00:23:28.210 --> 00:23:28.589
just cool.

417
00:23:29.109 --> 00:23:32.619
Well, she... She and others around the bar spit in

418
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:32.839
that beer.

419
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:33.619
I mean, it's even worse.

420
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:38.880
To prove the point, you know, it's interesting. Is this

421
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:43.329
guy full of shit or is he legitimately suffering from

422
00:23:43.349 --> 00:23:47.119
this condition? I'll find out. Yeah. And that's such a,

423
00:23:47.730 --> 00:23:49.609
it's gross, but it's a fun scene because like you're

424
00:23:49.630 --> 00:23:53.240
watching that schlep at the end of the bar chuckle.

425
00:23:53.779 --> 00:23:56.079
And you're like, what's he laughing about? All he did

426
00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:57.579
was take a drink out of a beer.

427
00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.359
Yeah.

428
00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:00.650
And then when you find out that she's He calls

429
00:24:00.690 --> 00:24:01.650
it the bar mat, you know?

430
00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:06.309
Right. Everyone's spitting this beer. He's like a Cheers caricature, right?

431
00:24:06.490 --> 00:24:08.730
He's like something that somebody rolled off of a, you know,

432
00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:13.230
I don't know, like a clown off a set. It's

433
00:24:13.289 --> 00:24:14.609
a very unsettling kind of laugh.

434
00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.690
I want to talk about, I got a couple of

435
00:24:18.710 --> 00:24:23.359
fun things about this film's background. And since we're discussing

436
00:24:23.420 --> 00:24:25.099
Carrie Ann Moss, I want to start with this one.

437
00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:29.519
Costume designer on this film, a woman named Cindy Evans.

438
00:24:31.369 --> 00:24:36.390
first off, Carrie-Anne Moss looks fantastic in this film. Again,

439
00:24:36.809 --> 00:24:41.599
she's just a year removed from playing Trinity in The Matrix.

440
00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:45.259
Maybe she's even in the middle of filming the sequel

441
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:52.099
at this point. Cindy Evans, the costume designer, raided her

442
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:58.289
roommate's closet for clothes for Carrie-Anne Moss to wear. Her character, Natalie. Really?

443
00:24:58.910 --> 00:24:59.130
Really.

444
00:24:59.930 --> 00:25:03.960
Yeah. I mean, the taste, like the style of choice,

445
00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:08.380
you know, this roommate, you know, she's got some, whoever

446
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.420
this roommate is, she's got some taste, right? She's got style. Natalie,

447
00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:15.309
Carrie Moss looks, she is a smoke show in this movie.

448
00:25:16.589 --> 00:25:20.069
Do you know who Cindy Evans' roommate was at the time?

449
00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:22.029
Whose closet was raided?

450
00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:24.789
I'm guessing it's a surprisingly big name.

451
00:25:25.789 --> 00:25:28.079
It was Charlize Theron.

452
00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:29.339
Really?

453
00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:35.880
Carrie Ann Moss is wearing Charlize Theron's actual clothes, not costume.

454
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:42.039
This is what Charlize was wearing in 1999, 2000, when

455
00:25:42.980 --> 00:25:45.880
we're filming this film.

456
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.869
I feel like she needs to have a little note

457
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:52.549
in the credits, something related to wardrobe.

458
00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:55.660
Oh, yeah, definitely, right? I got another fun one here

459
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.420
for you, Scott. And this is some nerd stuff. I

460
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:04.329
don't know who first discovered this, but given the subject matter,

461
00:26:04.509 --> 00:26:08.809
I love it. Teddy's phone number, which we clearly see

462
00:26:08.849 --> 00:26:15.440
on the Polaroid, is 5550134. Well, Teddy is not the

463
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.920
only person, the only movie character to have that phone number.

464
00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.440
This also happens to be the same phone number that

465
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:24.059
Marla Singer had in Fight Club.

466
00:26:24.809 --> 00:26:26.710
Oh, interesting. Interesting.

467
00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:31.630
You've got to wonder, like, is that just Nolan watching

468
00:26:31.650 --> 00:26:34.250
Fight Club, watching an adventure movie, going, you know what,

469
00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:37.009
I'm going to just do a little fun thing. I'm

470
00:26:37.049 --> 00:26:39.710
just going to borrow that. I don't know, but I

471
00:26:39.730 --> 00:26:43.430
dig it. If you're wondering, Scott, how we get the

472
00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:50.329
film Memento, Nolan conceived this idea from his brother, Jonathan Nolan,

473
00:26:51.630 --> 00:26:54.009
while they were on a road trip from Chicago to L.A.

474
00:26:55.509 --> 00:27:00.509
Nolan moves to America. He is in Chicago, where his

475
00:27:00.549 --> 00:27:04.289
brother is, and his brother's going to help him move. And,

476
00:27:04.309 --> 00:27:07.470
you know, what are you working on? His brother mentions

477
00:27:07.529 --> 00:27:10.369
a short story that he's writing, kind of fleshes it

478
00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.890
out on the car ride. Nolan loves it. Christopher Nolan

479
00:27:13.910 --> 00:27:17.029
loves it. He says, yeah, that sounds like an awesome

480
00:27:17.069 --> 00:27:19.349
short story, but I think it'd be an excellent film.

481
00:27:20.150 --> 00:27:21.910
And as he tells the story, because I've heard him

482
00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:26.279
tell this story a couple times, he tells his brother, Hey,

483
00:27:26.299 --> 00:27:27.880
I want you to give me a call. Once you've

484
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:30.079
got this thing written, brother says, Oh yeah.

485
00:27:30.099 --> 00:27:30.339
All right.

486
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.779
No, no problem. And he does just that. Jonathan Nolan

487
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.420
calls Christopher. The only problem is Nolan has already written

488
00:27:37.829 --> 00:27:39.690
the script and shot the film.

489
00:27:43.190 --> 00:27:43.589
All right.

490
00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:46.930
Yeah. So the fun thing here is Jonathan Nolan's story

491
00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:50.490
was in fact published. Uh, and I think it was

492
00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:55.289
Esquire magazine. Okay. Um, Yeah. The short story is called

493
00:27:55.309 --> 00:27:59.390
Memento Mori. And what's cool is that they kind of

494
00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:04.579
coexist nicely because they are the same but yet different story.

495
00:28:05.410 --> 00:28:10.299
Because obviously Christopher can't write a script when the source

496
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.960
material doesn't exist. He's got the bullet points. He's got

497
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:19.019
the fragments. He's got the Polaroids and the tattoo facts

498
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.579
of what this movie could and should be, more or less.

499
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.650
Yeah. I love the fact that it's written on a

500
00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:25.009
road trip. That's really cool.

501
00:28:25.950 --> 00:28:28.450
I want to talk a little bit more about Leonard.

502
00:28:29.609 --> 00:28:32.589
I've been enjoying this conversation. We keep coming back to Leonard.

503
00:28:33.549 --> 00:28:36.670
My question to you is whether or not we can

504
00:28:36.710 --> 00:28:41.230
trust him. And I'll start with this sub-question, if you will, Scott.

505
00:28:42.259 --> 00:28:46.240
Is telling the story backward, which I think we both

506
00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:49.400
are in agreement that we enjoyed it, is telling the

507
00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:53.660
story backward an effective method to help us feel Leonard's confusion.

508
00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:58.279
I think it is. I think, I think it's necessary

509
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.089
to get the empathy from the audience to include. It's

510
00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:04.730
like the maze quote you were talking about, right? Yeah.

511
00:29:05.450 --> 00:29:07.609
It brings you in with it so that you have

512
00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:11.599
more empathy for what he's going through. That doesn't necessarily

513
00:29:11.710 --> 00:29:14.519
give you a clear answer of whether or not, you know,

514
00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:19.279
he's a good guy or a bad guy. Um, if

515
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.460
he has always been a good guy or a bad guy, Um,

516
00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:26.140
and how you're supposed to, to feel about his experience.

517
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.089
I was actually thinking that a lot with this movie,

518
00:29:29.109 --> 00:29:32.670
because I've never watched the, there's another cut of this

519
00:29:33.829 --> 00:29:37.009
on the, uh, the Blu-ray, the DVD or something like that, right?

520
00:29:37.029 --> 00:29:40.359
Where you can watch it in actual chronological order. order.

521
00:29:40.619 --> 00:29:44.539
It's like an Easter egg. I think there was a

522
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.160
special edition DVD that had it. And you remember back

523
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.599
in the day when DVDs were just loaded with Easter eggs.

524
00:29:51.220 --> 00:29:55.309
Filmmakers loved to create little things. I know there's a

525
00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:58.490
way on one of them that you can watch it in...

526
00:29:59.569 --> 00:30:02.730
Chronological order. I don't know if I'd enjoy it, honestly.

527
00:30:03.410 --> 00:30:05.690
I don't think I would. I mean, like, it's interesting

528
00:30:05.730 --> 00:30:08.450
to know that that exists, but it just feels like

529
00:30:08.470 --> 00:30:10.990
it would be a litany of facts and not three

530
00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:11.450
to solve.

531
00:30:14.890 --> 00:30:21.799
We're back. We're talking about Memento, a film by Christopher Nolan.

532
00:30:22.660 --> 00:30:24.740
Were we? Oh, right.

533
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:32.750
Sorry. Guy Pearce is playing Leonard Shelby. After– initially, after

534
00:30:32.789 --> 00:30:36.150
Brad Pitt tells Nolan he's interested, he wants to do this,

535
00:30:37.029 --> 00:30:39.029
he has to back out. He's got a scheduling conflict.

536
00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:42.650
Nolan decides, you know what? I'm not going to wait

537
00:30:43.059 --> 00:30:47.119
for a large-scale actor. I'm a big name. And if

538
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.079
I just go with someone who's got the talent but

539
00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:53.039
maybe will cost significantly less, I can put that towards

540
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:59.599
the budget. Because remember, this is his first film following– following.

541
00:31:00.490 --> 00:31:04.190
not to be redundant there. So this is his, this

542
00:31:04.250 --> 00:31:06.569
is his first crack at like a big budget, a

543
00:31:06.609 --> 00:31:09.170
bigger budget, I should say. I think, I think it

544
00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:12.430
was like 3 million on this one, which is huge.

545
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:14.519
It's huge from, you know, when he, when you think

546
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.799
of what, you know, go back to our following episode

547
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.039
where we talk about how he was basically shooting that

548
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:25.660
on his own money on weekends here and there over several,

549
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.640
over the course of several months, several years with his,

550
00:31:27.809 --> 00:31:32.180
with his friends to make that movie happen. So he

551
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:37.009
starts looking at a couple people. I want your take

552
00:31:37.089 --> 00:31:42.609
on this. Before landing on Guy Pearce, he's strongly considering

553
00:31:42.630 --> 00:31:46.450
Aaron Eckhart, who he will eventually work with in The

554
00:31:46.490 --> 00:31:53.900
Dark Knight, Charlie Sheen, and Thomas Jane. If Guy Pearce

555
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.420
is not available, who are you looking at?

556
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.380
That's it.

557
00:31:59.160 --> 00:31:59.859
I've got Tom Jane.

558
00:32:00.819 --> 00:32:02.519
I'm kind of going Tom Jane too. I was going

559
00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:04.759
to say Aaron Eckhart. I definitely wasn't going to say

560
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.980
Charlie Sheen. Just because I think one of the things

561
00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:13.859
that works about this is that it's really interesting that

562
00:32:13.900 --> 00:32:17.079
first question you asked, victim or villain, because I feel

563
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:20.819
like it has to be an actor that doesn't have

564
00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:24.440
a lot of background for the majority of the audience.

565
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.400
Not that any of them are necessarily not well known,

566
00:32:29.589 --> 00:32:32.759
but I feel like At that point, Charlie Sheen has

567
00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:37.589
so much kind of history accrued with the general audience

568
00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:39.609
that they're going to come into it with certain perceptions

569
00:32:39.650 --> 00:32:41.869
of who we think he is or how we think

570
00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:42.650
we should feel about him.

571
00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:46.470
I think Pierce, to your point, Pierce is, he's a

572
00:32:46.490 --> 00:32:47.130
bit of a mystery.

573
00:32:47.950 --> 00:32:48.150
Right.

574
00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:51.380
We don't know, we don't know how to feel about

575
00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:54.299
him yet, aside from knowing that he's an amazing talent.

576
00:32:55.220 --> 00:32:58.019
And I say that because they're looking at Guy Pierce,

577
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:02.079
the casting director, um, I remember watching an interview with

578
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:04.779
her where she said, we're looking at this guy, and

579
00:33:04.819 --> 00:33:07.849
the fact that this is the guy that's in both

580
00:33:08.809 --> 00:33:12.549
Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, and L.A. Confidential,

581
00:33:14.349 --> 00:33:17.390
and the stark contrast between the two characters that he plays,

582
00:33:17.410 --> 00:33:22.930
the fact that that guy is in both roles, you

583
00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:24.660
just don't know what to think. You don't know what

584
00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:29.069
to expect about Guy Pearce. And he has. He's played

585
00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:31.009
amazing over the course of his career. He's played some

586
00:33:31.049 --> 00:33:34.319
amazing heroes. He's played some amazing villains. And he's played

587
00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:37.559
a little bit of everything in between. But I think

588
00:33:38.140 --> 00:33:42.480
he's an outstanding choice for this role. Do you know

589
00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:44.859
who disagrees with that, though?

590
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:45.859
Who's that?

591
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:47.240
Guy Pearce.

592
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:49.200
Really? Yeah.

593
00:33:50.059 --> 00:33:52.779
So Pearce has said in interviews that he would have

594
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.680
loved to become a quote-unquote Nolan regular. Because, you know,

595
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.000
Nolan kind of sticks with a pack of actors that

596
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:04.720
he likes to work with time and time again. Now,

597
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.739
Pierce did come close to Batman Begins and The Prestige.

598
00:34:09.550 --> 00:34:12.369
He was in contention for both the leads in those movies.

599
00:34:14.110 --> 00:34:17.809
Losing both of them, obviously, to Christian Bale. But it

600
00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:19.590
was last year, 2025. They're doing a screening with a

601
00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:29.309
live Q & A of Memento. And he admitted that

602
00:34:29.349 --> 00:34:33.639
he was ashamed of his performance in the movie, saying, quote,

603
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.119
I watched Memento the other day, and I'm still depressed.

604
00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:39.059
I'm shit in that movie.

605
00:34:39.940 --> 00:34:41.199
What? Yes.

606
00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:43.400
And he cites his work in Memento as the reason

607
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.769
he's most likely not collaborated with Christopher Nolan since. I

608
00:34:47.789 --> 00:34:50.269
don't know that. Nolan has not said, you know, Nolan

609
00:34:50.329 --> 00:34:53.429
does not confirm it. Nolan has, like, never been on

610
00:34:53.469 --> 00:34:54.829
record saying, yeah.

611
00:34:54.849 --> 00:34:54.969
Yeah.

612
00:34:55.579 --> 00:35:00.610
There's been talk about an executive at Warner Brothers who's

613
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.829
very much not a Guy Pearce fan and said, we

614
00:35:03.869 --> 00:35:07.829
will not be doing work with Guy Pearce. And Nolan has,

615
00:35:07.929 --> 00:35:09.969
for the longest time, he's always been a Warner Brothers guy.

616
00:35:10.869 --> 00:35:11.929
That's interesting.

617
00:35:12.110 --> 00:35:15.090
I think he's a little tough on himself. I dig him.

618
00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.090
I dig him in this movie.

619
00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:21.070
I do too. Like, there's another nuance of this. Again,

620
00:35:21.110 --> 00:35:22.960
going back to your first question that makes it really,

621
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:30.320
really interesting. Um, his delivery of lines through the first,

622
00:35:30.380 --> 00:35:34.219
I don't know, half of the movie, uh, have the

623
00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:37.900
tone of a villain, in my opinion, like it seems

624
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.340
like it's a little bit more menacing. And I guess

625
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.139
where I'm going with it is it's almost like he

626
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:46.389
has a menacing tone or a villainous kind of tone

627
00:35:47.230 --> 00:35:50.510
in a, in the, in the situation of a victim,

628
00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:53.639
like in the early part of the movie, You feel

629
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:55.800
for him. You want him to unravel the mystery. You

630
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.360
want him to kind of get through it. But it

631
00:35:58.389 --> 00:35:59.869
almost feels like maybe there's a little bit of a

632
00:35:59.949 --> 00:36:04.670
flip halfway through where he's slipping into the role of

633
00:36:06.510 --> 00:36:12.480
a victim. He's sounding a little bit more hectic, more

634
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:16.380
sporadic as he slips into the role of a villain.

635
00:36:17.179 --> 00:36:17.940
It's interesting.

636
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:22.119
No, that's an interesting point. My question is, Are you

637
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:26.300
referring to the color scenes that we're seeing play out

638
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:30.679
in reverse, or are you referring to the black and white?

639
00:36:30.739 --> 00:36:31.739
Okay.

640
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.059
How do you feel about the tone and the delivery

641
00:36:35.420 --> 00:36:36.400
in the black and white scenes?

642
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:41.389
Interesting. Even, I would say.

643
00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:41.630
Even?

644
00:36:41.929 --> 00:36:44.530
I feel like my answer is the color scenes are

645
00:36:44.570 --> 00:36:46.710
where I'm getting most of that. I remember it being

646
00:36:46.789 --> 00:36:51.230
in conversations with Natalie where it was feeling that way. Okay.

647
00:36:52.269 --> 00:36:55.210
Try this on all of the voiceover work that he

648
00:36:55.230 --> 00:36:58.829
does in the black and white scenes, a hundred percent improvised.

649
00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:00.309
That's incredible.

650
00:37:00.750 --> 00:37:02.469
Dialogue was not provided to him.

651
00:37:03.190 --> 00:37:05.050
That's incredible. Yeah.

652
00:37:05.989 --> 00:37:08.949
And when you, when you know that and you go

653
00:37:08.989 --> 00:37:13.809
back for a rewatch, it's almost like he's watching the

654
00:37:13.829 --> 00:37:17.659
black and white scene and just trying to explain what's happening.

655
00:37:17.889 --> 00:37:21.710
Cause he's, he's, his statements are in the form of

656
00:37:21.750 --> 00:37:23.969
a question. It's almost like everything he says has a

657
00:37:24.010 --> 00:37:25.590
question mark at the end of it, even though he's

658
00:37:25.630 --> 00:37:31.989
not asking questions. You know, so I'm in a hotel room. Well, what's,

659
00:37:32.110 --> 00:37:33.409
how did I get here? I don't know.

660
00:37:34.269 --> 00:37:36.550
So what's interesting about that is there was a certain

661
00:37:36.590 --> 00:37:38.829
point in this when I wondered if there was actually

662
00:37:38.929 --> 00:37:40.210
anybody on the other end of the phone.

663
00:37:41.130 --> 00:37:42.369
Is it too early to talk about that? Or do

664
00:37:42.389 --> 00:37:43.489
you want to, you want to save that?

665
00:37:44.530 --> 00:37:46.489
Uh, we can save it. Yeah. Okay.

666
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:48.590
I'll tell, well, I'll tell you what, that's a good

667
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.469
segue there. Joe Pantoliano as Teddy.

668
00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:53.360
Oh, yeah.

669
00:37:53.989 --> 00:37:58.099
Christopher Nolan is looking at Dennis Leary. Live in that

670
00:37:58.139 --> 00:38:00.199
world for a minute where Dennis Leary plays Teddy in

671
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:05.039
this movie. And I love Joe Pantoliano. I absolutely love him.

672
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.369
How many movies have we talked about that have had

673
00:38:09.429 --> 00:38:11.710
Joey Pants, as Hollywood calls him?

674
00:38:12.809 --> 00:38:16.070
A ton. A ton, right? One of my favorites from 1986,

675
00:38:16.070 --> 00:38:17.809
Running Scared. Running Scared, yeah.

676
00:38:19.690 --> 00:38:23.190
But you can't deny that Dennis Leary would have just

677
00:38:23.269 --> 00:38:24.210
crushed this role.

678
00:38:25.010 --> 00:38:29.570
Absolutely. Well, I'm trying to kind of think of what

679
00:38:29.849 --> 00:38:33.110
Leary era we were in at that point. And I

680
00:38:33.190 --> 00:38:35.309
think he could have been that kind of guy who

681
00:38:35.329 --> 00:38:36.949
was like, should we trust him or shouldn't we?

682
00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:40.110
Yeah, because this is.

683
00:38:40.179 --> 00:38:41.469
Is this Rescue Me kind of times?

684
00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:45.840
This is 2000, so it's like post-MTV, like current or

685
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.739
pre-Rescue Me.

686
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:50.650
Okay, okay. I don't know. I'd pull that off the

687
00:38:50.670 --> 00:38:53.449
shelf with the alternate reality of Video Store. Yeah.

688
00:38:54.409 --> 00:38:59.940
I think he's definitely more menacing as Teddy. And I

689
00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:02.559
don't know if I trust him as Teddy. But you

690
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:05.420
don't know Joey Pantoliano. You don't know if you trust

691
00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:08.280
him either because he seems kind of shady in his delivery.

692
00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:12.590
All the way through. Right? Yeah. He constantly wants to

693
00:39:12.610 --> 00:39:15.260
kind of challenge your perception of him like, Is he

694
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.320
just some kind of con artist or is he really

695
00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:19.320
like the actual villain of this whole thing?

696
00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:26.110
A few minutes ago, you were talking about what happens

697
00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:28.530
when you get an actor that's maybe too big, right?

698
00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:32.710
And we have a preconceived notion. notion of them. That was,

699
00:39:32.750 --> 00:39:38.150
in fact, Christopher Nolan's concern with hiring Joe Pantolano. And

700
00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:43.260
he gets this role because Carrie Ann Moss suggests him

701
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.639
and says, no, this is the guy. Because she had

702
00:39:45.699 --> 00:39:47.659
such a fun time working with him on 1999's The Matrix. Yeah.

703
00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:53.619
Which is an interesting point. Like he, with, uh, with

704
00:39:53.659 --> 00:39:55.739
her role in the matrix being such a kind of

705
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.699
hero role. Yep. There's very much of a, a useful

706
00:39:59.739 --> 00:40:01.920
trend in this. Like there's so many times when you

707
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.030
don't know what to think of Natalie, just thinking about

708
00:40:05.070 --> 00:40:09.309
the core idea of somebody who can't form new memories,

709
00:40:09.349 --> 00:40:13.349
you know, 10 second Tom. Yeah. Um, if somebody were

710
00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:18.019
to use that person over and over again, um, to, uh,

711
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.900
Just abuse the hell out of him. He's a very

712
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:26.199
violent guy. I'm not saying like, oh, he's completely innocent,

713
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:29.250
but yeah. Yeah.

714
00:40:29.269 --> 00:40:34.409
Well, the medical condition that you're alluding to, the one

715
00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:38.289
that Leonard suffers from, it actually is a real condition.

716
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:44.840
It is known as anterograde amnesia, which is the inability

717
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.710
to form new memories after damage to To the hippocampus?

718
00:40:50.250 --> 00:40:53.639
I'm not a doctor, Scott. Hippocampus? Yeah. Hippocampus? Thank you.

719
00:40:54.780 --> 00:40:58.900
Fun fact about doctors. It was during the 1950s. Doctors

720
00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:04.420
were inadvertently causing this condition when they treated patients that

721
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:10.059
had forms of epilepsy by removing parts of the hippocampus.

722
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:13.340
As Dr. McCoy would say, my God, are we in

723
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:14.070
the dark ages?

724
00:41:16.730 --> 00:41:19.090
This is not the first time a movie has used

725
00:41:19.550 --> 00:41:23.369
reversed chronological order to tell its story. Did you ever

726
00:41:23.389 --> 00:41:24.469
see a film called Betrayal?

727
00:41:24.489 --> 00:41:27.980
I don't think so. Who was in that one?

728
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.260
So it's Jeremy Irons and Ben Kingsley. This is a

729
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:35.860
1983 movie. It's all about, basically, it's about this guy.

730
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:39.239
He's having an affair with his best friend's wife.

731
00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:40.239
Yeah.

732
00:41:40.929 --> 00:41:43.599
And they tell the story backwards, so. You got to wonder,

733
00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:45.780
I wonder if, I wonder if Nolan saw this, if

734
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.599
he saw betrayal and was like, Hey, that might be the,

735
00:41:49.539 --> 00:41:50.320
the way to do this one.

736
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.190
How did that compare? Like the way that they use

737
00:41:54.230 --> 00:41:58.010
that device? Like, I mean, telling it backwards and this

738
00:41:58.130 --> 00:42:01.489
one seems to fit very much with the, um, like the,

739
00:42:01.570 --> 00:42:03.869
the point of the story. It's almost like the narrative

740
00:42:04.130 --> 00:42:07.530
is challenging your own ability to make memories. Right.

741
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.099
Well, I want to, yeah, I want to, well, let's

742
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.150
talk about that. Um, Because I feel like Nolan ensures

743
00:42:13.190 --> 00:42:17.309
that we, the audience, are in this constant state of confusion.

744
00:42:17.329 --> 00:42:22.699
I mean, it's because we're entering every scene that we see.

745
00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:26.139
We're entering it. We don't know where we are. We

746
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:29.139
don't know what's going on. People are kind of walking

747
00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:33.119
in to the scene, and we don't know who they are.

748
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:37.019
We don't know, okay, do we trust them? Are they

749
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:38.980
here to help Leonard? Are they here to hurt Leonard? We...

750
00:42:40.889 --> 00:42:44.369
We honestly, we just, we have no idea what's happened

751
00:42:44.650 --> 00:42:50.489
moments before the scene. This use of storytelling, which I

752
00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:53.960
won't even call a gimmick, I think it effectively makes

753
00:42:54.219 --> 00:42:57.000
us become Leonard, in a sense.

754
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.639
I absolutely agree. I think that is a great point.

755
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.860
And I think it's a much different viewing experience between

756
00:43:03.909 --> 00:43:09.469
your first and your next. But I remember the movie.

757
00:43:09.809 --> 00:43:13.690
I remember... loving it when I first saw it, but

758
00:43:13.710 --> 00:43:17.150
I haven't revisited it until just recently for this one.

759
00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:22.929
And my first viewing, I remember being pretty confused, but

760
00:43:22.989 --> 00:43:27.489
eventually able to catch on with how they were kind

761
00:43:27.510 --> 00:43:28.730
of stringing that together.

762
00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:35.739
Well, I think Nolan, who is a master at the

763
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.449
plot twist and the surprises in his films, I think

764
00:43:40.610 --> 00:43:44.829
one thing that he does brilliantly with Memento, it's the

765
00:43:44.909 --> 00:43:47.250
opening shot. It's one of the best opening shots I've

766
00:43:47.269 --> 00:43:55.969
ever seen in a film. Because we're watching this Polaroid picture.

767
00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:58.190
The Polaroid camera, you took the photo and then you

768
00:43:58.230 --> 00:44:02.170
had to shake it, right? To help it come into focus.

769
00:44:02.469 --> 00:44:03.150
Like the song says.

770
00:44:03.329 --> 00:44:04.710
Yeah, like the song says. But the more.

771
00:44:08.739 --> 00:44:11.400
This hand is shaking this photo of what is clearly

772
00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.260
someone that's been executed. You know, they're laying on the,

773
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.340
on the tile floor with, you know, blood, you know,

774
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:24.599
blood spatter everywhere. The more we shake it, the more

775
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:27.039
it dissolves, the more it blurs out, the more it

776
00:44:27.219 --> 00:44:27.889
goes away.

777
00:44:27.989 --> 00:44:28.199
Right.

778
00:44:29.550 --> 00:44:32.670
So you're kind of, I think, you know, especially if

779
00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:35.530
it's a first time watch or you're, you're, you're immediately

780
00:44:35.590 --> 00:44:36.289
getting confused.

781
00:44:36.349 --> 00:44:36.530
Right.

782
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:39.670
And even as you pull back and we see Leonard,

783
00:44:40.630 --> 00:44:42.809
I think it's not until that moment where his hand

784
00:44:42.849 --> 00:44:45.340
goes out and then the gun flies up into it.

785
00:44:46.429 --> 00:44:50.130
And we see that we're watching the actual scene in

786
00:44:50.170 --> 00:44:56.159
reverse all the way down to Teddy's, no! So he

787
00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:59.360
has just– no one has just told you. Nothing is

788
00:44:59.380 --> 00:45:02.889
what it seems. And I'm going to– if you want

789
00:45:02.909 --> 00:45:05.510
to move forward, you're going to have to follow me backwards.

790
00:45:06.380 --> 00:45:10.300
And it's fantastic. It's so confusing the first time you

791
00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:13.619
watch it, but it pulls you in. You want to

792
00:45:13.659 --> 00:45:15.420
go along for the ride, I think.

793
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:18.500
I agree, and I think it's the design of the

794
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:23.409
subsequent scenes that are very helpful, because he's not intentionally

795
00:45:23.429 --> 00:45:28.250
wanting to confuse anybody. You get the initial scenes, and

796
00:45:29.369 --> 00:45:31.869
this is just from memory, not meaning to be a pun,

797
00:45:34.090 --> 00:45:37.949
the first couple scenes stack in such a way that

798
00:45:38.030 --> 00:45:42.239
it's like, he's able to set up the, the general premise,

799
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:45.820
you know, building on that first scene, obviously set up

800
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:49.619
the general premise and then take back through that general

801
00:45:49.659 --> 00:45:52.500
premise all the way, uh, back till he comes back

802
00:45:52.539 --> 00:45:57.429
to bird at the front window. Right. And it sets

803
00:45:57.449 --> 00:45:59.650
you up to be able to follow how this narrative

804
00:45:59.769 --> 00:46:03.429
is going to unfold. It almost feels like it's like a, um,

805
00:46:04.250 --> 00:46:07.840
you're going into a, a library, uh, to be given

806
00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:12.380
a story in reverse order. And every scene is another

807
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:15.820
book that goes on the stack, right? And as you're

808
00:46:15.860 --> 00:46:18.260
walking through, you have to think through, okay, what did

809
00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:20.449
I just see going all the way back to the beginning?

810
00:46:20.570 --> 00:46:23.590
It's almost like it invites you to kind of like

811
00:46:24.510 --> 00:46:27.650
weave those things back together, but it also gives you

812
00:46:27.670 --> 00:46:29.429
a little bit of a black and white vignette for

813
00:46:29.449 --> 00:46:32.329
you to be able to like stop and reset, right?

814
00:46:32.489 --> 00:46:33.630
At least that's how I feel about it.

815
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:38.179
Well, so it's the black and white I like to

816
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:43.800
use vignettes, right? Because we're seeing everything in color is

817
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.440
happening in reverse, and it's more or less flashbacks. We're

818
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:50.860
going backwards. The black and white vignettes, as you call them,

819
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:56.369
that's where we're telling the story forward. He purposely uses

820
00:46:56.409 --> 00:47:03.190
this documentary format, right? So you kind of, even the

821
00:47:03.210 --> 00:47:05.809
first time, even the first couple times you're watching this,

822
00:47:05.829 --> 00:47:09.079
you're kind of wondering... What's happening in the past? What's

823
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:14.219
currently happening? Where, where am I? And it's, and I,

824
00:47:14.739 --> 00:47:18.539
I wonder if it makes you, how it makes you

825
00:47:18.579 --> 00:47:23.219
feel for Leonard because you're, you're forced to experience what

826
00:47:23.260 --> 00:47:28.280
he's experiencing. Scott, if your memories were wiped out, but

827
00:47:28.340 --> 00:47:31.940
all your habits, all your personality traits remained, would you

828
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:32.860
still be Scott Hoffman?

829
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:39.849
Hmm. Um, I don't think so. I feel like that

830
00:47:39.889 --> 00:47:43.050
would mean every time that I wake up or reset

831
00:47:43.090 --> 00:47:47.119
or whatever, I'd be a different person. I'd be a

832
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.239
different person each time, right? I mean, I'd still obviously

833
00:47:50.260 --> 00:47:53.719
be the same guy and name and whatever, but it's

834
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:55.500
almost like that feels like it's putting you in a

835
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:58.480
position where you're kind of rewriting this template of a

836
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:02.380
person that kind of resembles, you know, who they were,

837
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:04.940
but without the memories, it's hard to say that you are.

838
00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:12.389
It's sad. It's truly tragic. Because the person suffering from

839
00:48:12.409 --> 00:48:16.690
this condition, they're in prison not knowing they're in prison.

840
00:48:18.349 --> 00:48:18.510
Yeah.

841
00:48:18.690 --> 00:48:20.769
I mean, it's a particular kind of hell, I think.

842
00:48:21.409 --> 00:48:21.630
Yeah.

843
00:48:22.550 --> 00:48:25.150
Let's take a quick break. And when we get back,

844
00:48:25.949 --> 00:48:28.820
we'll talk a little bit about some of this cast.

845
00:48:31.940 --> 00:48:35.579
I feel like Nolan's body of work... You just have

846
00:48:36.780 --> 00:48:38.300
to have the physical media. You have to have it

847
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.320
because not only are you going to get an incredible film,

848
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.349
but you're going to be able to dissect it over

849
00:48:47.369 --> 00:48:50.130
and over again. Because every time you watch one of

850
00:48:50.170 --> 00:48:52.570
his films, you're coming away with something new.

851
00:48:53.409 --> 00:48:56.539
Yeah. Well, I mean, even if the 4X that you're

852
00:48:56.599 --> 00:49:01.849
mentioning obviously has great, qualities about it. Cause it's truly

853
00:49:01.929 --> 00:49:05.510
like extra immersive, but like the theater going experience really

854
00:49:05.530 --> 00:49:09.329
is meant to be immersive in that you're in this

855
00:49:09.889 --> 00:49:13.690
dark room, you're sitting, paying attention. There is no chance

856
00:49:13.730 --> 00:49:15.550
to pause. There is no chance to get a break.

857
00:49:16.409 --> 00:49:18.030
So it's one of the few times in our lives,

858
00:49:18.070 --> 00:49:19.590
I think that you have a chance to get in

859
00:49:19.610 --> 00:49:22.619
there and truly commit to an experience whether you've got

860
00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:23.820
shaking chairs or not.

861
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:31.619
Yeah an experience that we haven't had you deliver too

862
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:41.679
much this season the five word synopsis Scott Using exactly

863
00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:45.059
five words, what is memento?

864
00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:49.260
Now, I deliver this with trepidation because I feel like

865
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:54.320
sometimes this can be kind of polarizing, but it's genuine

866
00:49:54.340 --> 00:49:57.239
to how I felt when I was watching this movie.

867
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.039
50 first dates with vengeance.

868
00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:04.400
You're pulling the Jimmy Fallon, Drew Barrymore rom-com.

869
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:07.179
Oh, Adam Sandler, Drew Barrymore.

870
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:11.010
Oh, yeah, Adam Sandler. Yeah, Jimmy Fallon, that was... The

871
00:50:11.030 --> 00:50:14.849
baseball one, the Red Sox one that they did. Oh, yeah.

872
00:50:14.869 --> 00:50:18.980
That's a deep cut. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't shake that.

873
00:50:19.179 --> 00:50:19.619
I couldn't help.

874
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:25.699
Adorable, adorable, adorable rom-com with Drew Barrymore. And you're. So

875
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:26.579
that's your double feature, I.

876
00:50:26.579 --> 00:50:29.320
Guess, you know, I guess. I mean, I might, I might.

877
00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:30.260
Yeah.

878
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:36.260
I mean, I told you it's weird, but it's just interesting.

879
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:40.789
Like the, the. Obviously they're not, you know, they're apples and,

880
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.440
pizza places, right? They couldn't be much more different.

881
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:50.239
Hey, I'm Jeff Johnson. Who are you?

882
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:55.400
I'm Scott Hoffman, and this is a Film By Podcast.

883
00:50:56.179 --> 00:50:59.929
And we're going to talk about the Christopher Nolan film, Memento.

884
00:51:01.090 --> 00:51:03.329
I thought Amber was going to do this one.

885
00:51:04.550 --> 00:51:07.969
Yeah, no, she's got tickets to an event that she

886
00:51:08.010 --> 00:51:09.650
can't pass it up. She can't make it.

887
00:51:10.550 --> 00:51:15.480
Three things you may know about this director in a quote.

888
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:21.000
He has mentioned that his primary influences are Stanley Kubrick,

889
00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:28.190
Ridley Scott, Michael Mann, and Orson Welles. During last week's episode,

890
00:51:28.630 --> 00:51:32.710
Amber Lewis suggested that Nolan would make an excellent James

891
00:51:32.769 --> 00:51:35.639
Bond film. Do you agree with that, Scott?

892
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:36.960
Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

893
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:39.800
Nolan happens to be a huge fan of the Bond

894
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:44.980
franchise and once told writer-director David S. Goyer that his

895
00:51:45.019 --> 00:51:50.579
favorite 007 film was 1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

896
00:51:52.179 --> 00:51:53.179
I happen to be a fan of that one. I

897
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:53.570
love that one.

898
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.599
Yeah, do you think he would... That's interesting. I wonder

899
00:51:57.639 --> 00:51:59.579
if he would... If he had the chance to make

900
00:51:59.619 --> 00:52:01.340
a Bond film, would he want to go back to

901
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:01.920
that era?

902
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:03.500
I think he would.

903
00:52:04.300 --> 00:52:04.780
That'd be nice.

904
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:09.320
I definitely think he would. He's fiercely... protective of the

905
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:14.829
theatrical experience for films and has oftentimes said in interviews

906
00:52:15.150 --> 00:52:17.730
he will only make films to be shown in theaters,

907
00:52:18.610 --> 00:52:22.630
further stating that he will never work for Netflix and

908
00:52:22.730 --> 00:52:27.989
criticizes their distribution model as, quote, mindless because they opt

909
00:52:28.010 --> 00:52:29.909
against a theatrical release window.

910
00:52:29.929 --> 00:52:31.849
I mean, you've got to respect that.

911
00:52:32.530 --> 00:52:32.909
You have to.

912
00:52:33.510 --> 00:52:37.269
I'm really... glad there are people that want to keep

913
00:52:37.289 --> 00:52:42.030
the theater experience alive and know what it's worth.

914
00:52:42.969 --> 00:52:46.039
I think this is why he continues to push the envelope,

915
00:52:46.900 --> 00:52:49.260
making his films as big as possible. I mean, the

916
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:54.519
Odyssey is shot completely in the IMAX format. And in

917
00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:57.050
some cases, in some parts of the country, you can

918
00:52:57.070 --> 00:52:59.329
see it in the 70 millimeter version, which I wish

919
00:52:59.369 --> 00:53:02.630
we could have had here, but, you know. I was happy.

920
00:53:02.670 --> 00:53:04.409
I was happy with what we got. You know, I loved,

921
00:53:04.449 --> 00:53:06.170
I loved seeing the IMAX. It was, it was fantastic.

922
00:53:06.809 --> 00:53:09.489
I still have not seen it. I still have yet

923
00:53:09.550 --> 00:53:14.349
to see it. I got to the other Tom Holland movie. Uh,

924
00:53:15.010 --> 00:53:15.949
the web swinging and whatnot.

925
00:53:16.090 --> 00:53:18.420
You got the other Tom Holland, John Bernthal movie.

926
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:21.260
That's right. That's right. Yeah. So, uh, how should I

927
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:22.079
see the Odyssey then?

928
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:25.960
Please see it in IMAX. Um, actually, actually, if you

929
00:53:26.019 --> 00:53:28.199
come down to, uh, Scott, you're not too far away. Uh,

930
00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:31.519
and I'll go with you. Um, the B & B

931
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:35.000
in Liberty. They're doing that, what they call, I think

932
00:53:35.019 --> 00:53:39.539
it's called 4XD or something crazy. It's where the chairs

933
00:53:39.579 --> 00:53:44.269
are moving and you kind of experience some of the

934
00:53:44.289 --> 00:53:46.630
stuff that's happening. Like if there's wind, you get hit

935
00:53:46.650 --> 00:53:48.590
with wind. If there's water, you get hit with a

936
00:53:48.610 --> 00:53:49.349
little bit of a mist.

937
00:53:49.409 --> 00:53:52.530
It's like a... Yeah, that whole immersion thing, right? Yeah.

938
00:53:52.829 --> 00:53:56.960
So I just saw that they are showing it at

939
00:53:56.980 --> 00:53:58.519
the B & B like that. So come on down.

940
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:00.019
I'll go check it out again.

941
00:54:00.630 --> 00:54:02.269
All right. I'll get the popcorn.

942
00:54:03.510 --> 00:54:04.170
I'll buy the tickets.

943
00:54:05.340 --> 00:54:07.480
That doesn't seem fair. Those are probably very pricey tickets.

944
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:08.119
We'll figure it out.

945
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:14.420
It's all right. On film noir in general, Nolan is

946
00:54:14.500 --> 00:54:19.690
quoted as saying, I always find myself gravitating to the

947
00:54:19.750 --> 00:54:23.429
analogy of a maze. Think of film noir, and if

948
00:54:23.449 --> 00:54:26.579
you picture the story as a maze... You don't want

949
00:54:26.599 --> 00:54:29.360
to be hanging above the maze watching the characters make

950
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:33.829
the wrong choices because it's frustrating. You actually want to

951
00:54:33.869 --> 00:54:37.050
be in the maze with them, making the turns at

952
00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:41.190
their side that keeps it more exciting. I quite like

953
00:54:41.210 --> 00:54:42.170
to be in that maze.

954
00:54:42.989 --> 00:54:44.849
I quite like the fact that you pulled that quote

955
00:54:45.690 --> 00:54:49.780
because when I was looking into this, I gravitated toward

956
00:54:49.820 --> 00:54:53.059
that quote because I think it's a perfect connection to

957
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:56.829
not only memento, but Inception, and I'd say the Dark

958
00:54:56.849 --> 00:54:57.429
Knight trilogy.

959
00:54:58.380 --> 00:54:59.199
I would say Tenet.

960
00:55:00.099 --> 00:55:00.360
Yep.

961
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:07.179
Also, I mean, there's so many. Following his directorial debut,

962
00:55:07.219 --> 00:55:11.000
we actually covered that a couple seasons ago. A lot

963
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:15.480
of his work really falls on that. Because a lot

964
00:55:15.579 --> 00:55:18.800
of times when you find these quotes online, it's like,

965
00:55:18.949 --> 00:55:21.349
here's what he said about this movie, and here's what

966
00:55:21.369 --> 00:55:25.349
he said about that movie. This was just him discussing film,

967
00:55:26.250 --> 00:55:29.469
film noir, as it were. But you're right, it fits.

968
00:55:29.730 --> 00:55:32.889
It fits so many of his films fantastically.

969
00:55:33.550 --> 00:55:37.230
I mean, a lot of his catalog, when I think

970
00:55:37.309 --> 00:55:41.079
of the top ones that come to mind, especially the

971
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:44.679
one we're talking about here, that quote married with his

972
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:50.219
perspective on theater, on a theater-going experience, I think they

973
00:55:50.260 --> 00:55:53.340
kind of feed each other. Because I feel like things

974
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:57.099
like Tenet, I feel like things like Inception, I definitely

975
00:55:57.139 --> 00:55:59.199
feel like Memento, that we'll talk about in a little bit,

976
00:56:00.070 --> 00:56:04.349
lends itself well to a second showing. It doesn't demand it. Like,

977
00:56:04.389 --> 00:56:06.449
you can see it in one setting and get it

978
00:56:06.789 --> 00:56:10.670
and move on. But there's a richer experience, I think,

979
00:56:10.710 --> 00:56:16.809
you get when you watch it a second time. Is

980
00:56:16.869 --> 00:56:46.909
Leonard the victim or the villain? Victim.

981
00:56:47.909 --> 00:56:53.030
Let's talk about a film by Christopher Nolan. His 2001

982
00:56:53.030 --> 00:56:56.059
neo-noir thriller, Memento.