Feb. 10, 2025

Robert Townsend - The Five Heartbeats

Robert Townsend - The Five Heartbeats
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Season 6 A Film By...

Def Dave stops by to share his love of Motown music with a discussion about Robert Townsend's semi-autobiographical music drama, The Five Heartbeats!

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WEBVTT

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The question is, and I think you're the guy that

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can answer it. What was the music scene like June seventh,

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nineteen sixty five.

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Wow, Okay, nineteen sixty five. The Beatles were at the

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height of their power, The Rolling Stones were strong, the

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Birds were strong. But on the other side of the

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equation you had Motown at full power, and so we were.

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It was an incredible story, an incredible American success story

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of Barry Gordy with the Independent label and basically redefining

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black music for America. And he had top notch songwriters,

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top notch producers, and he found the talent and it

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was just success story after success story, And so to me,

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the sixties are an incredible decade of just innovation after innovation.

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Where music was in nineteen fifty nine compared to where

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it was nineteen seventy, worlds of difference. So much happened

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in the sixties. It was happening, you know, on both

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sides of the I guess the racial spectrum. You had

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everything happening with Motown, everything happening with the British invasion,

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and then all the American bands which still had my band,

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the Beach Boys going strong in sixty.

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Five Motown at the height of its power. So let's

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talk about a film by Robert Townsend, his nineteen ninety

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one underrated music drama The Five Heart Beats. Hello everybody,

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I'm Jeff Johnson, and this is a film by a podcast.

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Black History Month continues. We are celebrating another great director,

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Robert Townson, and I've got a fantastic guest co host

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if you will. Uh, he is no stranger to the show.

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He's been here before. I got nothing but love for

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this guest, Jeff Dave. I got nothing for I got

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nothing but love for you.

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Baby.

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Oh.

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I didn't come a quit with my Motown references, but

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thanks a lot, Jeff. I'm working my way back to

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you or something like that.

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But uh, we're working your way back to you. Were

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working your way back to a film by a podcast. Uh.

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Yeah. Thrilled to be here. I always love hanging out

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with you and talking movies, and this is one that

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I certainly feel is underrated. I love to shine a

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light on it.

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And I'm impressed.

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Man.

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I I just threw I just threw a date at

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you in music history and you you you were just

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ready to go. You you you were dialed in ready,

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ready to talk about the music scene.

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So I have spent I have spent time immersed in

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the sixties. As you know. My show last year ran

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six or seven months where I just stepped through the

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discographies of the Beatles and the Beach Boys, and I

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had a blest with that. But almost equal to my

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love for that music is what was happening out of

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Detroit in Motown at Motown during that time.

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Yeah, the the Apples and Oranges podcasts wildly popular. U

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taught me a thing or three about the Beach Boys

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and about the Beatles. I told you I was a

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Beatles guy, wasn't a Beach Boys guy. You kind of

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won me over a little bit, and uh and you

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educated me.

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So.

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Yeah, listeners, if you haven't already, check out the Apples

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and Oranges podcast a very awesome deaf Dave venture so.

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And one thing about those groups is the vocal harmonies, right,

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the vocal arrangements. I love music. I'm attracted to music

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that focuses on that and that where harmony is at

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the forefront of the sound. And so the same reason

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why I'd like, say, the Beast Boys, is the exact

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same reason I like groups such as the Temptations, right,

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or the Four Tops and the groups like that where

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it's all about the vocal performances.

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Well, let's get into you. I know you're itching to

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talk about the performances and this music, this film. But

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before we do, let's talk a little bit about Robert Townsend.

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So Dave this one. You know, I'm teeing this up for.

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You, buddy. I'll do my best.

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In nineteen eighty four, he starred opposite Denzel Washington and

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A Soldier Story. He also starred in Streets of Fire

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as one of the Serels, one of my personal favorites,

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perhaps a precursor to his role in The Five Heart

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Beats Happy That in nineteen eighty four, two pretty big

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movies for him.

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Yep, ma'am. It's been a long time since I've seen

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Streets of Fire. And the last time I saw it,

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I didn't know I was looking at Robert Townsend. So

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I am ready to revisit that movie now.

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Yeah, I know you love nineteen eighty four, and you

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know I love nineteen eighty six, And def it was

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nineteen eighty six where he got his big break, working

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alongside fellow comedians like Sam Kinnison, Roseanne Barr and Jerry

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Seinfeld in the stage comedy concert Rodney Dangerfield. It's not

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easy being me. Can you imagine a talent like the

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talent on that stage in nineteen eighty six? I mean,

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we knew who Rodney Dangerfield was. He was a phenomenon.

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But in nineteen eighty six, no one knew Roseanne Barr

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or Jerry Seinfeld or Robert Townson. I mean, talk about

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the greatness that was yet to come.

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Yeah, I wonder what to be like to be in

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that crowd, see what all that came afterward.

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That would have been a hell of a show. One

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more thing about mister Townsend. He owns his own film

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production company, the Townsend Entertainment Corporation, and has been nominated

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for more than three NAACP Image Awards throughout his career.

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That's that's impressive.

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That's awesome, absolutely so.

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Really and regardless of what one thinks about his movies,

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you know, whether they land with you or not, the

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dude made his own way, you know. Now, he took

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control of his own career, the writer, the director, independent filmmaker,

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the all tour and you see him go on and

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have success. It's just it's an awesome it's an awesome

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American success story, much like Barry Gordy in the sixties.

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Yeah, Jeff, I got a quote for you. He was

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He gave this actually in ninety one during an interview

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when he was kind of out there supporting The Five

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Heart Beats, which is the film we're going to talk about.

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But I'll ask you, you know, if you if you

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have any words of wisdom for mister Robert Townson, you know,

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please share him. But here's when I thought was pretty interesting.

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They were interviewing him, and it was all about the

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you know, his his supporting the advancement of black actors

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in Hollywood. And he said, right now, because they do

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two hundred and forty seven movies in Hollywood a year,

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and maybe three of those films might have minorities in

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lead roles, I have to champion the cause and def

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He further went on to state his belief that films

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should just be entertainment and not looked at as black

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or white films.

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It's good.

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I agree, Yeah, absolutely agree.

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I've got a couple of quotes here that I think

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you'll like, especially with your with the tilt you have

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on the show toward filmmakers toward directors. But before I

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do that, I got a couple of tidbits real quick

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that I want to throw out.

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Oh yeah, laid on me, Man laid on me.

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So he actually got started at Second City in the

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seventies in Chicago. He was he was in the Second

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City troop in nineteen seventy four.

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You're kidding me. Wasn't that seventy four? That was? Was

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that Candy's time? Or no that I'm thinking of someone else?

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Well, Candy might have been Second City at that time,

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but he probably would have been in Toronto.

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Okay, right, this is.

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Gonna be the Chicago Troope for the nineteen eighty eighty

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one season, which was the first Dick Eversol season, the

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first season after the original cast had left. He auditioned

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for Saturday Night Live from the nineteen eighty season. Okay,

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he got passed over because there was this kid named

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Eddie Murphy who also auditioned.

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His longtime friend Eddie Murphy. Yes, wow, Why isn't Lauren

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Michaels just hiring both of them? Was comedic geniuses? What's

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he doing?

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Well? You know he did end up hiring well, Lauren

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Michaels was not on the show in nineteen eighty, but

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when Lauren Michaels came back in eighty five, he actually

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hired Damon Wayans. And as we'll see, there's a lot

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of connections between Townsend and the way In family.

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Oh yeah, absolutely, we'll talk about that a little.

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Yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute. I got

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one more for you before I get to the quotes,

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because I think you will like this. You might not

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know this, but Robert Townsend had an uncredited role as

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a baseball fury in The Warriors.

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No, yes, sir, Robert Townsend was one of the baseball Furies. Yes,

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you've got to be kidding, all right?

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Is your mind blown? I have I earned my keep?

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My mind is absolutely blown. You know. You know we

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are huge fans of the Warriors on this show. You

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know our buddy Apache Ramos who was in the film,

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you know we talked to him from time to time.

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I can't believe Robert Townson was one of the Warriors though.

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Yeah, that's it? Hey, Is that all the excuse you

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need to go watch that movie again? Good?

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I don't need listen. I never need an excuse to

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watch the Warriors. You know it wasn't long ago. I

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was talking to Rob Ryder, who was one of the

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main Purple Furies. He even wrote the book Purple Fury.

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So I gotta I gotta tell you, I'm excited to

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go back and check out and find Townsend in that

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now so death. I gotta be honest the Five This

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was the first time watching for me The Five heart Beats.

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I imagine some of our listeners may not have seen

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it that maybe they need a refresher. How about you,

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you lay down a synopsis for us?

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All right? Well, what credit words to do? I grab

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this from my It says in the early nineteen sixties,

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a quintet of hopeful young African American men form an

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amateur vocal group called the Five heart Beats. After an

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initially rocky start, the group improve, turn pro and rise

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to become a top flight music sensation. Along the way, however,

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the guys learned many hard lessons about the reality of

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the music industry with its casual racism and greed, while

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the personal weaknesses of the members threatened to destroy the

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integrity of the band.

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Def Townsend has stated that the story behind The Five

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Heart Beats was based on the breakup of the Temptations,

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which was something he took very personally.

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Yes, he incorporates elements of store of the Temptation story.

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I believe it was the Dells, it was Sam Cook,

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it was Frankie Lyman. He kind of drew from their

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real experiences to come up the screenplay. Obviously, the main draw,

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I mean, the main influence, seems to be the Temptations.

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I after I watched this movie recently, I turned around

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and watched the Temptations television mini series that the team

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put on in nineteen ninety eight. They play very similar

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to each other. Oh yeah, this is this is basically

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a biopic for a group very much liked The Temptations.

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They just happened to be a fictional group. But the

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whole thing plays like a biopic.

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Well, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do for the listeners.

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I'm gonna I'm gonna pull the curtain back and give

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them a little behind the scenes about this episode. Now,

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last week you and I were talking. I watched it,

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gave it, you know, gave it, gave it a first

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time watch. I was was very displeased with this film.

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I was not a fan, and I called you up.

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I was like, you know, I don't know what we're

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we might have to skip this one because I'm not

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happy with it. I don't think it's a good film.

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And you had the exact opposite reaction, and you're like, no,

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this is a good film. And we we started bantering

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back and forth. I said, well, okay, stop stop, stop,

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We're we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this film.

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We're gonna talk about this film and maybe you can

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win me over, but I doubt it. Now I'm gonna

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tell you, I have given this a rewatch after our conversation,

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and I don't think it's a great film. But you

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did win me over, like you made. You made a

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very passionate argument in that that quick phone call. I

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so I kind of I put my deaf Dave goggles

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on and watched it a second time, and I did.

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I did fall in love with the film a little bit.

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I still have some issues, and we're going to talk

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about those issues, okay. But I just wanted you to

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know this is not You're not your your back's not

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up against the wall like you thought. I do have

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some good things to say about this film, and and overall,

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I'm glad that we're discussing it.

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Uh, very good.

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But uh, before we before we discuss it, let's take

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a quick break, uh death. When when we get back,

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we'll well, we'll jump into these heartbeats. We'll we'll talk

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about this cast. Okay, all right, welcome back. We are

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discussing Robert Townsend's The Five Heartbeats with author podcasts personality

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Extraordinary Deaf Dave. Let's let's jump to it. One thing

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I love about Robert Townson, He's a he's an amazing director.

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But I love that he's always starring in his films,

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uh for the most part. So let's talk about Robert

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Townson playing Donald Duck Matthews.

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Okay, well, it's the he I would I would say

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he is one of two of the Heartbeats that get

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a good, solid, like fully fleshed out character arc. He

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is the main guy. Is like his character, Duck is

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the guy who is the central force I guess behind

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the group. He's he's got organizing it, he's leading it.

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He's writing the songs. He he's as signing the parts,

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he's coming out with the choreograph, he's he's doing all

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this stuff. So it opens with him in modern day,

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which would be the early nineties, and and you don't

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quite know what's going on. He's hanging out on his

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back deck of his house and he comes across some

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old media news coverage of when he was in the Heartbeats,

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and the whole movie plays like a flashback, and so

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we're kind of seeing it from his perspective in a

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lot of ways.

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Yeah, well, like finding those old life magazines and Jet

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magazine and things. Yet, yeah, I did. I did appreciate

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that like that. I and no, uh, no surprise here

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the comedian in the cast is getting the funniest moments

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in the film. Uh And I just I love watching

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Robert Townson perform. He's he is, He's He's so much fun.

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And I do appreciate that a movie like this, which

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for the most part is a drama, even though it

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goes off the rails here and there, I like that

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he is injecting some some very fun comedic moments into

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the script and him and his brother doing the the

278
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shy guy routine trying to pick up girls. Yeah, he's

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he's such a goof and it works, It really works, though,

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big fan of Townsend in this one. Good Michael Wright

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Michael Wright as Eddie King Junior. He's he's the the

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face of the Heartbeats. He's the lead. I gotta tell

283
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you this guy. I was not familiar with Michael Wright,

284
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but wow, what a performance.

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I tell you. I do think he has the best.

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He's the media's role for an actor in this movie.

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He's his character, Eddie is the other one that I

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said has a full, fully realized character arc. And uh yeah,

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I you know, hats off to Michael Wright. He's probably

290
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best known for his role on OZ, which is okay.

291
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He played for his role on OZ. He played Omar

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White on that show. That's not a show that I

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watched a lot of, but I know it was very

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critically acclaimed. He is best known for that. We know him,

295
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or I assume that you're familiar with this the mini

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series and later on television series V from the early eighties.

297
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Wait, Michael Wright was in V.

298
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He was in V. He was on the team. He

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00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:16.440
was Wow. Yeah, Michael Light was on He was on V,

300
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:18.519
and he was later beyond OZ. But here he is

301
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in the Five heart Beats.

302
00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.039
So rewatching the Warriors to find Townsend. Now I'm rewatching

303
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.919
V to find Michael Wright. Yeah, did you know that

304
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he almost didn't get this role Deaf Dave Denzel Washington

305
00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.080
was sought for the role, but they couldn't get him

306
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due to budget constraints.

307
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Yeah. I saw that, and I I'm trying to remember,

308
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:40.960
like what what it didnnell look like in nineteen ninety one.

309
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I'm afraid he might have been too old already. I

310
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don't know, you think, No, I don't. I don't know

311
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what was he doing. I guess Glory. We're talking about

312
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.559
Glory era Denzel.

313
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.399
Yeah, yeah, that's that's just like two years after Glory.

314
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:54.679
Okay, Yeah, that could obviously he definitely could have done

315
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.559
he could have kno got out of the park. The

316
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Uh you know he's playing the David Ruffin character, right, Uh? Yes,

317
00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:04.400
Michael Wright is his Eddie is the David Ruffin character

318
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of this of this group. And so we see him,

319
00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.720
you know, he he's like the force. He's like that

320
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.240
dynamic presence on stage that will take over a show,

321
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.119
even though he's not like the leader behind the scenes

322
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.440
of the band. And and we see it, you know,

323
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:24.559
go to his head. His ego gets out of control,

324
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.920
he falls into substance abuse. Is he gets separated from

325
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.480
the group. He goes through the whole arc, so he

326
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.920
gets to play with that though. And that's and I thought,

327
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.559
he just he's the standout performer for me in in

328
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.200
this movie.

329
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.200
I'm going to agree with you, but he may be

330
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.519
the standout. But the guy that I'm having the most

331
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.680
fun watching is probably leon As J. T. Matthews. He's

332
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.680
he's playing Robert Townson's older brother.

333
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.200
Right man.

334
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.119
He's He's and he's definitely the ladies man.

335
00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.519
You know. J. T. Leo is an actor that I

336
00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:07.200
am very familiar with, and I feel like everybody should be,

337
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.039
like I don't know why he's not known, but it's

338
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:12.759
odd to me how obscure he has remained. I don't

339
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.559
understand that. I remember him very well in Cliffhanger. He

340
00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.319
was awesome in Cliffhanger. He had a star turn in

341
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:25.640
Cool Runnings. He was he got to start, I guess

342
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.720
in the Madonna music video. I mean, he's just yep,

343
00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:31.759
he's a character that He's an actor that I always

344
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:33.960
recognize and every time I see him, I'm always impressed

345
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:34.720
with his performance.

346
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.839
You know, you mentioned the Temptations. You also mentioned David

347
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.799
Ruffin got to mention he actually he goes on to

348
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.759
play David Ruffin in nineteen ninety eights The Temptations.

349
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.759
Yeah, Like I.

350
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.559
Said, I watch the connectivity there.

351
00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.359
I watched those two back to back. They're very similar stories,

352
00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.400
very similar aesthetic, and then you've got Leon and both

353
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.839
of them and so yeah, that really kind of blurred

354
00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.519
the lines there a little bit. So, yeah, he's good

355
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:03.880
in that one. He actually is playing David Ruffin. Yeah.

356
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.720
One of the one of the finer actors in this film,

357
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:13.200
Harry Lennox is Terrence Dresser Williams. I was surprised to

358
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.559
see him because he usually plays, you know, the square

359
00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.160
or he plays the the good guy that you really

360
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.599
don't like anyways, you know, like like like you know

361
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.680
he's in Man of Steel. He's he's the general that

362
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.400
is trying to find out what Superman's fortune solitude is.

363
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.200
You know, he's always like the guy that he's like,

364
00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:36.160
he's like the guy that's enforcing the rules that you

365
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:40.880
just don't like. But man, is he amazing in this movie.

366
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:42.200
And his dance moves.

367
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.759
Yeah, he's he's he's playing Dresser the bass singer, so

368
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.680
uh yeah, and he's the original choreographer for the group. Yeah,

369
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.000
before they bring in a ringer. So yeah, he's like

370
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.400
I remember him from the Matrix sequels. Oh yeah, and

371
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.279
he was. He was with the Free Free Humans preborn Humans,

372
00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:05.480
leading that movement, so I remember him from that, and

373
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.680
of course he's in the Snyder Verse two. So but

374
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:10.359
this is where I first saw him.

375
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.079
I first saw him. There's a movie he did with

376
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:20.000
Damon Wayns and Stacy Dash More Money, I think is

377
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.519
what it was. Okay, yeah, if you haven't seen it,

378
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.000
that's a deaf Dave, you would like it. It's a comedy.

379
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.319
You know. Damon Wayne's like a hustler, He's always scamming people,

380
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.920
but then he falls for the girl who is Stacy

381
00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:38.480
Dash and turns out that she's dating Harry Lennox, who

382
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.720
is an absolute square. And it's it's a fun movie.

383
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:42.200
Check out.

384
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:43.200
Now I've seen it.

385
00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:43.559
Now.

386
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.400
It did come out. It came out after Heartbeats, So

387
00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:48.079
this is how more and back I go with Heartbeats.

388
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:49.000
Oh wow.

389
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.880
Okay, but but you know, Ralph Tresvant has a song

390
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.079
on the Mo Money soundtrack, so I'm very familiar Ralph Tresvant,

391
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.480
lead singer of New Edition the Modern Day Temptations. This

392
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.880
is all the same genre. Is this has hit me

393
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:01.799
in my bulls.

394
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:03.960
Wow, I had no idea this movie is just gonna

395
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.160
rabbit hole over the place. I'm glad though, how about

396
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.079
how did you what did you think of Tiko Wells

397
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.720
playing Anthony Fireboy Stone.

398
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.240
He's he's a guy who seems to have had a

399
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.960
solid career in television, continue to be a working actor. Obviously.

400
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:23.319
I don't think he ever became a big name or anything.

401
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:29.160
He's to me, Uh, this character snuck up on me

402
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.920
in this movie. Like I loved his what his harmony

403
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.440
part when they were performing, He's coming in with the

404
00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.480
highest part right over the top of everybody, and so

405
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.960
these musical these set pieces where they're performing, I mean,

406
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.359
I'm in heaven and he and he's playing that part.

407
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.160
I love it. But as far as his role in

408
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.160
the movie, he seemed like one of the lesser members.

409
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.720
But but then the the ending we get. He really

410
00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:01.200
like his part in that and his art like really

411
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.720
gave us the happy ending that we needed, and it

412
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.480
just made me like, I just really liked his character.

413
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.839
So but as far as the actor himself, you know, uh,

414
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.039
I don't know if he really stood out that mean,

415
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.000
for me so much with any kind of much right

416
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:20.960
strong performance probably one of the lesser presences and one.

417
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.480
Of one of the one of my favorite performances.

418
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:24.119
Uh.

419
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:25.799
You know, we've talked about the five heart beats.

420
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:26.160
There's one.

421
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:28.000
There's one more person I want to talk about.

422
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:28.480
Uh.

423
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:30.559
And then of course if if there's anyone you know

424
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.400
you'd like to call attention to, we'll we'll talk about him.

425
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.359
But uh, you talked about a ringer, you know. Uh,

426
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.640
Lennox was like the the group's choreographer until they brought

427
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:46.200
in a ringer. Harold Nicholas playing Ernest Sarge Johnson. This

428
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.480
this old man. I mean, he's like Yoda when he goes.

429
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.759
He comes, you know, shuffling in and they're like, who's

430
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.279
this old drunk? And then he just that scene where

431
00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.400
he shows them what he can do his dance and he,

432
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.319
you know, like Lennox is doing his dance movies. Dresser.

433
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.039
He's like that ain't shit. I'm like, belive us little

434
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.240
bit he throws that cane, you know, since he came

435
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.799
down and man, I mean talk about blowing blowing your hair.

436
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:15.079
That's awesome.

437
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:16.440
He's like seventy years old.

438
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.839
He's just seventy years old. I love Sarge. What'd you

439
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:19.440
think of Sarge?

440
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.920
He's tamp dancing all around these guys. He was it

441
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.000
was It was great to see that happen. But let

442
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.799
me ask you a question. What do you know about?

443
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:31.160
What do you know about Harold Nicholas? Nothing, dude, all right, listen,

444
00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:33.599
this is the guy to talk about as we observe

445
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.559
Black History Month. You talk about someone breaking barriers and

446
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:39.920
making film history. You don't even know who you're talking

447
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:43.960
about when you talk about Nicholas. Harold Nicholas, he started

448
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:48.319
in movies starting in the nineteen thirties as a child

449
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.799
with his brother. The Nicholas brothers were at tap dancing sensation,

450
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:58.000
and they were getting work in movies. They they appeared

451
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.920
throughout the thirties and forties. As a matter of fact,

452
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.799
in nineteen forty eight, they danced with Gene Kelly on

453
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:10.599
screen in a movie called The Pirate Wow, and that

454
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:12.720
broke the color barrier.

455
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.880
I had no idea this guy had such a storied background.

456
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:24.559
Now, in nineteen forty three's The Weather, it included a

457
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:28.960
performance by the Nicholas brothers that Fred Astaire said was

458
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.920
the greatest movie musical number he had ever seen.

459
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:33.759
That's a hell of a compliment.

460
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.599
We got Gen Kelly, we got Fred Astaire. We're breaking

461
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.200
the color barrier and it's all with a young Sarge

462
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.400
who would make his final cinematic appearance in the Five

463
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:46.000
Heart Beats.

464
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.559
That is absolutely incredible. And when you throw names like

465
00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:54.200
that around, you know, what he does in this movie

466
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.880
tells me he is. He's just as good, if not

467
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:02.119
better than those guys on a if if, if we're

468
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.960
being fair, Yep, absolutely wild man. I had no idea.

469
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:09.400
We'll talk a little bit about the background here, Dave.

470
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.960
You know you mentioned the Waynes Brothers. This one was

471
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.559
co written by Keenan Ivory Waynes. The film was initially

472
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.200
set up at Warner Brothers in nineteen eighty eight, with

473
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:24.440
Keenan and his brother Damon to star in. And I

474
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.319
don't know what they were thinking, but after Warner Brothers

475
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:29.359
passed on the project, they went over to Fox to

476
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.680
create in living color. So I'm gonna tell you, I'm

477
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:35.279
gonna say that's a win all all the way around.

478
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:36.319
That's a win win.

479
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.640
Yeah, I mean, could you imagine, imagine, imagine Warner Brothers

480
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.200
says yes to the Waynes brothers, and then we never

481
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.279
get in Living Color.

482
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:46.680
That's true, that would be terrible.

483
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.480
I don't want to live in that world.

484
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.319
You know. I'm looking at the timeline here. I'm thinking,

485
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.079
if they say yes to the Five Heart Beats, we

486
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.160
also don't get I'm Gonna Get You Sucker, which came

487
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:58.759
out at the end of nineteen eighty eight, and it

488
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:01.640
has a lot of the same players in including Keenan,

489
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:07.039
Ivory Wayans, and Damon Wayans. So I think so obviously

490
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.839
Townsend and Keenan are friends, they're working together, they're putting

491
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:13.920
this project together, and it doesn't it doesn't get off

492
00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:17.240
the ground right away. So the Wayans go off and

493
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:19.559
do I'm Gonna Get You Sucker, and in Living Color,

494
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.319
I mean bam.

495
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.039
Talking and then become become household names.

496
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:28.359
Household names, right, and the Wayans name. It becomes its

497
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:30.640
own brand throughout ever since.

498
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.759
Really from yeah, from then on, so we got so.

499
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:38.759
Two years later, townshend Tip takes over the project. He

500
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.759
had met former Temptations singers David Ruffin and Eddie Kendrick

501
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.960
with the intention of bringing them on as technical advisors.

502
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:50.839
Fox refused for fear that Motown founder Barry Gordy would

503
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:55.319
sue them. That's some that's some. Uh, that's some. That's

504
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.240
some sway that he's holding you know. Uh. But you

505
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.200
know you mentioned the earlier and because Fox would not

506
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.839
sign off on the former Temptations, Uh, the R and

507
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:08.920
B group the Dells, which you know they had a

508
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.279
pretty successful forty four decade run. Uh, they take it

509
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.480
on the technical advisor roles and I correct me if

510
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.279
I'm wrong, But they're the ones doing the singing as well.

511
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.519
Uh, No, I don't think they're doing the singing what

512
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:24.200
we I watched the bonus features on the DVD. Yeah,

513
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.559
and the singing is actually being provided by by professional

514
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:32.359
session singers. And they may be motown singers. Okay, these

515
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:35.920
are studio guys that are not famous names, but they're

516
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.720
recording all of the singing performances for the movie.

517
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.880
Oh all right, I thought that I thought was the Dells.

518
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.359
So yeah, that's why that's why you're that's why you're

519
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:45.279
around to keep us honest.

520
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.599
Now, Roughening Kendricks had been performed together. They were they

521
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.680
were act during during this time. With the way the

522
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.400
Temptations went in the subsequent decades, they ended up not

523
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.279
with them, but putting on shows the two of them,

524
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.079
and so that's how they ended up kind of being

525
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:05.480
together here initially on this project.

526
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.839
Before we talk about scenes, I do have one one

527
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.359
more fun little fact for your deaf well, you know,

528
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.920
and you you're you're your clue in so you already

529
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.799
know this, but I'll let the listeners know. Eddie's girlfriend,

530
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.920
a character named baby Doll, was offered to Whitney Houston,

531
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:24.519
and she turned it down because she said, this role

532
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.759
is way too small. You got, I mean, she's not wrong,

533
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.359
and clearly, you know, she goes on, you know, a

534
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.519
couple of years later, she's doing the bodyguard, So miss Houston,

535
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:36.799
I think she knows what she's talking about. But I

536
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.839
thought that was interesting because, like, you know, imagine this

537
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:41.680
was we almost had a movie that had Whitney Houston,

538
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.640
you know, and Denzel Washington doing doing like a motown

539
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.039
that type thing. That would have been that would have

540
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:48.759
been pretty interesting.

541
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.680
I think that that would have taken the movie to

542
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.480
a different level. I'm not sure Townsend was would have

543
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.000
been the guy for a cast like that, Like I

544
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.200
don't know if he could have handled that.

545
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:57.160
Like maybe not.

546
00:28:57.480 --> 00:28:59.759
This is a small movie. It's a small budget, it's

547
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.799
a small all production. It's Townshend and his buddies. They

548
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:05.839
I just I don't know. I don't know if he

549
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:07.400
would have been ready for that job if he had

550
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:12.000
gotten Denzil and Whitney. But but I'm not complaining. I

551
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.319
think it all worked out all around for everybody.

552
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.039
Well, I want to talk about a couple of noteworthy scenes,

553
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.039
and I'm gonna do something I never do. I am

554
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:24.680
gonna mention a scene that I absolutely can't stand. Yeah,

555
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.119
and in that regard, it's noteworthy. It's noteworthy because it

556
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:28.680
should have it should not have been in the film.

557
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.200
But I'm gonna get to that. But before let's start,

558
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:34.000
let's start off on the good foot. Their first performance

559
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.839
where they do nothing but love for you, you know,

560
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.799
and he's you know, Eddie's rushing in at the last

561
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:46.519
possible second. The girls are swooning. It's I'm loving every

562
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.359
second of this, this this performance, and I'm loving I'm

563
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.960
loving the song. If I'm being honest, is that the

564
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.720
one where he's going take us to church, Take us

565
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.000
to church.

566
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:01.599
He's like, yeah, he's calling the shots, he's calling Yeah.

567
00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:05.599
It works, man, it works. It is early in and

568
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:07.960
at this point, I'll be honest with you. At this point,

569
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.440
I am absolutely loving the movie. And I'm like this,

570
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.240
if this is what we're gonna get for the next

571
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:17.000
hour and fifty minutes or whatever, this is gonna be

572
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:20.440
a hit. Now I'm gonna be uh, I'm gonna think

573
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.920
otherwise as we as it goes along. But I do

574
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.240
gotta tell you this movie. One thing I can't I

575
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.200
can't argue is that the first the first act is sensational.

576
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.319
It is absolutely sensational. He Townsend does a great job

577
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.359
introducing everyone. He does a great job. Let you know,

578
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.400
this is the sound you're gonna hear. And he's setting

579
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.680
this this amazing movie up. I don't know that it's

580
00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:45.599
gonna He's gonna land land it so so well, but

581
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:49.000
you know, you feel otherwise, So maybe we'll talk about that.

582
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.480
But uh, another scene and then I gotta ask you.

583
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:53.839
I gotta ask you if there's a scene that you

584
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:58.960
want to talk about. I absolutely love the photo montage

585
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.599
with Sarge teaching them choreography. I had never seen that before.

586
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.279
And here and here's and listeners. If you haven't let

587
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.279
watched this movie, Here's what I'm talking about. We've all

588
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.039
seen my montage in a movie. There's hundreds of them, right,

589
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:17.319
But def I've never seen a montage that's just photographs.

590
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:21.319
You know, We've got a great song playing and it's

591
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:25.079
a it's a series of photographs, old photographs showing Sarge

592
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.200
teaching them the moves, and it's them playing gigs, and

593
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.960
it's them, you know, having a good time. It's them

594
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:37.440
getting into trouble, and it's all captured through still photographs

595
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:40.200
like you're going through. Like you know, Robert like his

596
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.119
his character, you know, Duck is at the beginning of

597
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.039
the movie and he's kind of reminiscing, he's looking back

598
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.279
on old, old magazines, and we get to feel that,

599
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:50.359
you know, we're like I thought it was one of

600
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.000
the most it's probably the most clever montage I've ever

601
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.160
seen to tell a story, you know, a big story

602
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.599
in a short short time. And this movie does a

603
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:01.640
couple of months, t is, but this is this is

604
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.119
the one to talk about. What do you think about

605
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:06.640
this photograph mostage moment with Sarge.

606
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:08.599
I liked it a lot. And the reason I do

607
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:13.720
is because I you know, I'm not consuming this movie

608
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.039
as a as like a regular movie. I'm consuming it

609
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:20.119
like it's a biopic. So and I think there's certain

610
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.960
tropes or trends that you see with biopicks, and this

611
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.519
is one of them. This is like Tay. The way

612
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:27.680
this played to me was like we were looking at

613
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.440
some of their media coverage and publicity shots from throughout

614
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.920
their career as we see them like, you know, turn

615
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:36.680
into a professional group and then hit the big time

616
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:41.440
and stuff like that. So so to me, it kind

617
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:43.519
of like blurred that line of like, Okay, yeah, this

618
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:46.480
is now we're seeing some like quote unquote real world

619
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.279
coverage of them, you know, yeah, photos that fans of

620
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.480
theirs might have seen in their world.

621
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.119
You know, give us death Dave, give us a noteworthy's seen.

622
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:58.240
Well, I'm in love with the early musical performances, like

623
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.079
you were talking about the first one where eighty is

624
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.039
running in off the street and just grabs the mic

625
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:03.240
in the last second takes over.

626
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:03.839
Uh.

627
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:08.079
The other one later when they're the uh the competition

628
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.680
is trying to uh sabotage their performance and they.

629
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.039
Got are you talking about the fixed Talent show?

630
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:13.680
Yes?

631
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.000
Oh that's such a good I had that one. I

632
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:17.759
had that one. Next, tell us about that.

633
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.079
One yeah, and they they they're they're given the crappy

634
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:24.839
like house pianist and and they're they're doing this show.

635
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.680
They're doing their number and it sucks and it's slow,

636
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.960
there's no energy. They've lost the crowd. And Robert Towns's

637
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.240
character duck, he's like he's not having it, like this

638
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.839
is my music, you're ruining it. He's like forgetting this

639
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.000
choir boy, he's over overly sensitive to the negative reaction

640
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:41.559
from the crowd.

641
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:42.119
Quits.

642
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.240
Dude walks off the side, well on the other wing.

643
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.839
He's gone because he can't handle it. And Townsend goes

644
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:51.920
over there, shoves the piano player out the way, knocks

645
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.799
them to the ground, takes over the piano and just

646
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:57.119
like that, all the energy is back. All the guys

647
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.720
know what to do. Boom their own point. The crowd

648
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.200
turned in, just like on a dime. And then they're

649
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:04.680
in the middle of playing and they're playing to the

650
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.159
front row and gets the music's building up, and then

651
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:10.239
you hear the high voice come in over the top

652
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:12.599
and the choir boy has come back on the stage

653
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:15.679
and his voice is sailing over everybody else's and it's

654
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:16.119
just like.

655
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.159
Ah booze the booze disappear from from jeers to cheers.

656
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.719
The girls in the front row of the audience. The

657
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:28.880
one girl passes out. She can't handle it when when

658
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.400
Eddie gets like he basically is like right on top

659
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.920
of her, right in her face, and she melts. She

660
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:37.639
can't handle it.

661
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.440
She's actually the girlfriend of the competition, yeating groot it.

662
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.000
She was there to make sure everybody booed them is.

663
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.320
She melted in her seat and could not help but swoon.

664
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:51.400
And that was an incredible turn in this story.

665
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.320
I'm watching, I'm watching that moment where he wins the

666
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:57.239
girl the other guy's girl over and she absolutely she

667
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.039
just passes out right there. I really Prince wrote a song.

668
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:03.800
You don't know if you remember in the nineties, he

669
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.039
had a he had a song called pussy Control No No,

670
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.559
that one that's it's controversial death. But uh, I'm watching

671
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:14.519
Eddie do his thing. I was like, I'm hearing Prince

672
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:19.079
singing that song. Pretty awesome scene. I love that moment. Actually,

673
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.639
before I talk about what I think is the pivotal moment,

674
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:25.119
the scene that I think is a pivot moment, I

675
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:27.760
want to talk about a scene I just can't stand

676
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:31.480
and it's it's the first time where I'm like, what,

677
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.000
what what's going on here? Can we talk about Duck

678
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:40.400
singing with his little sister when they when okay? So here, Okay,

679
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.440
I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you why I don't like it,

680
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:46.199
and then if you if you wanna, you wanna, you know,

681
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:47.920
preach on and be like, hey, this this is why

682
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.079
it works. Then you know I want to hear it.

683
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:54.199
But okay, this is where I feel like, okay, So

684
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.920
I will say that I'll begin by saying this. I

685
00:35:56.920 --> 00:36:01.440
think the movie at certain times takes on different genres

686
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:05.480
and and it's it's a little jarring at this point.

687
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.920
Up to this point, we've got ourselves a pretty good

688
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.920
what feels like a biopic for this group the five Heartbeats.

689
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:17.119
But then it turns into a musical because he is,

690
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.000
you know, Duck is in there. He's sharing a bedroom

691
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:22.239
with his little sister. And by the way, this little

692
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.920
girl has one hell of a voice. So I will

693
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:27.119
say that, I know I'm gonna trash the scene, but

694
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.719
I cannot say enough awesome things about this this young

695
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.119
girl's singing voice. It was amazing. But he's he's been

696
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.440
writing lyrics right, because he's their songwriter. He's been writing lyrics,

697
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:41.639
and he's been throwing you know, he wads up the

698
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:44.920
paper and he throws it. And she's back there like

699
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.840
a like a cartoon, trying to keep the place clean,

700
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:51.000
and he's throwing paper around and she's getting upset. And

701
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:52.960
then she says a line and then he's like, wait,

702
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:55.480
do that again, and she sings it like but it's

703
00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:59.079
like a musical, like work, we're singing instead of talking, right,

704
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.400
And then and then we dump out a trash can

705
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.239
and then we're pulling drawers open, and we're finding all

706
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.840
these random lyrics that he just magically pieces together with

707
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:14.920
her singing a duet. It's the scene's just stupid. You know.

708
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.320
I don't get am I am I out of line?

709
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:19.440
Like I just I just it didn't. It didn't fit

710
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.239
this movie. If this was a musical, I'm all in.

711
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:25.360
But it's not a musical. It's a music drama. It's

712
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.679
a movie about music. Where yet on the scene, Well.

713
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.159
This may or may not surprise you, but I'd largely

714
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:36.519
agree with what you're saying. I had basically the same reaction. Now.

715
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.320
I don't know if I hate it as strongly as

716
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.440
you do. The the sheer joy that they seem to

717
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.679
be having in the scene, it gives it a real

718
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:48.719
positive energy, and I can get caught up in that,

719
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:53.079
and it it like out of context, isolated on its own.

720
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.519
Like you say, if it were in a musical, like

721
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:59.280
it could be a fun little number, but does it

722
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.599
fit the tone in the style of the rest of

723
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.000
the movie. I would agree with you that it does not,

724
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:07.000
and it breaks the logic and it breaks the reality

725
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.679
of the movie. I don't I don't argue with that.

726
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:13.519
When the first music scene that we were loving a

727
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.960
second ago, where where Townsend, where Duck is at the piano,

728
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.079
you know, calling out the parts on the fly, and

729
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:22.719
we're we're supposed to believe they're just improvising the whole thing. Yeah,

730
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:28.079
that that already is straining my disbelief, right, But the

731
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:30.920
one thing that this scene does takes it further, and

732
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:33.000
is the thing that bothers me about musicals, even when

733
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.320
I know I'm watching a musical, is like, oh, so

734
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.960
suddenly these characters know the melody and and that he's

735
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.119
finding all that and like this just spontaneously happens like

736
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.679
this on the fly by accident. There's no way like

737
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.679
it's it's it's something that happens in musicals. But musicals

738
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.719
are partly fantasy, right, They're not following the rules of reality.

739
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.679
So yeah, I agree, it's I think it does break

740
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.559
the rules of the film. I don't argue with that,

741
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.159
And and I love this movie and I have good

742
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.000
will toward it, and it's very charming to me. I'm

743
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.719
also aware that it's not perfect, and I think where

744
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.920
it is flawed is in its uneven in it's I

745
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:14.920
don't know if it's the pace or if it's the tone.

746
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:19.800
There's past Okay, Okay, so let's just I don't want

747
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:21.960
to jump in and out of negativity. So we're in

748
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.079
a negative spot right now. Let's just stay there. Let's

749
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:25.480
let's marinate for a minute.

750
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:26.880
Okay, because you just.

751
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:30.239
Mentioned the pacing and the next note I'm looking at

752
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.360
on the page that you know, as I'm watching this movie,

753
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:37.800
I wrote the pacing is off skips forward. You know,

754
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.559
we're all over the map, and I just I feel like,

755
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:44.079
I know we've got a lot of story to cover,

756
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.840
because you know, we're starting off with like a you know,

757
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.760
duck in his in his sixties, and then we got

758
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.199
to go back in time, and we got to go

759
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:55.800
from like nineteen sixty five all the way through the nineties.

760
00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:02.719
But you can't cram three decades into a movie this

761
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:05.920
like like this and not have it feel a little jarring,

762
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.639
because all of it, you know, like we're we're kind

763
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:10.320
of going back and forth as we're all over the map,

764
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.360
because like Duck's writing poetry to a girl and we

765
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.000
don't know who she is, and you know, and then

766
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:18.159
Eddie's girl is pregnant and you know, we don't even

767
00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:20.440
know who she is, and you know, and then all

768
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:23.719
of a sudden, Eddie's got a drug problem. Jimmy gets murdered.

769
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.960
It's it's and by the way, the Jimmy murder scene,

770
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:29.880
it almost feels like a thriller at that point, like that,

771
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.599
even the music feels wrong. It's like it's like a

772
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.920
made for cable TV movie where it's like a scary,

773
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.400
scary movie. It's the middle of the middle act where

774
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.119
we the wheels, I feel the wheels kind of go

775
00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:44.079
off the rail a little bit.

776
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:47.599
And you mentioned that the Jimmy murder, and I believe

777
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:50.079
that comes immediately after where one of the other sink

778
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:53.199
from a different group. One of the other singers is

779
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.519
confronting Big Red, the record label dude for his royalties

780
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.559
or something, and the guy's strong arms and hangs him

781
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:01.599
over the ball and scares and stuff like that. But

782
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.000
that's also kind of like played for laughs almost And

783
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:07.079
then and then you turn right around and you have this, like,

784
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.039
you know, this murder scene that feels like it's in

785
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.000
a different movie entirely. So yeah, I think I think

786
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:19.599
we are seeing an unevenness in tone. That's probably what

787
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:26.440
bothers me more than the pacing. So like, we spend

788
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:28.400
a lot of time early in their careers, we see

789
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:34.000
them forming and developing and hitting it big and all

790
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.320
that kind of stuff, and then, like you say, the

791
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:40.079
second half of the movie where they're already big and

792
00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:42.679
now they're dealing with all the problems that come with success,

793
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.119
with this egos and drugs and all this kind of stuff,

794
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.639
and it just kind of turns into a bit of

795
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.840
a jumble. But you know, I see that happening in biopics,

796
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.960
and I think it happens in the Temptations mini series.

797
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.719
Also Part one is just like this, It's fantastic and

798
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.199
it's right it is fun, and then this part two

799
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.719
is a jumbled mess while they're dealing with all the

800
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:07.920
crap and they're just trying to get so much in right,

801
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.400
You're talking about a story that lasts thirty or forty years,

802
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.760
and you're dealing half the movie is in the first

803
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.440
four or five years, and so you got to try

804
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.559
to cram it all in. Now with a biopic, you

805
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:20.280
understand it's a true story. You got to try to

806
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.960
cover all of it. And here he would have the

807
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:27.519
luxury to just, you know, short, you know, scale down

808
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.760
the movie and tell the more coherent story.

809
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.719
Yeah, he's he's got a he's got the luxury of

810
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:36.800
knowing that these aren't real people. The five heart beats there,

811
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.519
they're a fictional group. So he so I get it.

812
00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:43.360
I get that he's wanting to sample a lot of

813
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.280
the highs and lows of some of the of some

814
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:49.360
of Motown's biggest acts, like we talked about, but just

815
00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.320
trim it down. We don't need, you know, And you

816
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:54.639
talk about that jumble, don't don't lie to me. I

817
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:57.679
know there's one one part of that that jumbled mess

818
00:42:57.719 --> 00:42:59.239
that you absolutely loved, And I'm talking about in the

819
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:04.199
eighties when they took it on like the hit therap Look, No,

820
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:05.960
I was watching AZ like what I know, Def's gonna

821
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:06.159
love that.

822
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:10.599
Uh yeah, So I mean, but I think he was.

823
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Townsend was like basically telling his temptation story, and he

824
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.519
had already opened with a bookend seen in modern day,

825
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.159
which is the early nineties, and so he just he

826
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:22.079
shows all this in here, and he falls into the

827
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.159
same trap that actual biopics of real groups fall into,

828
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:30.119
I think. But to me, as a consumer of biopics,

829
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.559
I rolled with it like it just it didn't bother.

830
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:34.159
It didn't take me out of the movie too much.

831
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.519
I acknowledge that it's happening, that it's a thing, that

832
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.360
there's an uneven to the pace there, and it's a

833
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:41.960
jumbled miss and it could be a tighter movie if

834
00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:44.400
he was trying to tell more of a normal story.

835
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.920
But because I'm just seeing this as a biopic about

836
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:49.800
a group I've never heard of before, I just I

837
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.400
accept that a little bit more easily.

838
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:54.360
Well, I'll tell you what, I won't be negative anymore.

839
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:56.000
I want to. I want to be positive. I do

840
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:58.760
want to talk about what I feel is the pivotal

841
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:00.920
moment of this film. One of the one of the

842
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:04.760
the better acted moments in this film. And they and

843
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:06.320
I'll see if you agree with me, because you haven't

844
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.880
really talked to me. You haven't really said to this.

845
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:09.480
Here's what I think is pivot moment. But here's what

846
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:12.440
I think is, I'm just gonna say a line of dialogue.

847
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.679
Why do we have to cross over? You know the

848
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.760
scene I'm talking about in the Deep they're in the

849
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:22.119
Deep South. They're they're toring, they got you know, their

850
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:26.840
record is is being pressed. They're so excited, and then

851
00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:29.280
the A and R man shows up and he's like, hey, hot,

852
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:31.960
off the presses, I've got your record. We did make

853
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:37.159
some changes and death the changes. We see the album

854
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.960
cover and it it's the Beach Boys basically standing on

855
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.920
standing on the cover. Well, it's five five five white guys,

856
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:45.079
five square white guys.

857
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:47.920
Yeah. Uh, well, I think you might be getting that

858
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:50.400
confused with the with the Five Horsemen, which is a

859
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.679
white group that we see in the movie and they're

860
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:53.199
played as a.

861
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:55.559
Joke, right, yeah, they are the Five Horsemen.

862
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.320
Yeah, but this album cover shows white people. But I

863
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:00.400
think it's like showing like a white family having a picnic.

864
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.719
Or something like that. Yeah, and uh that that's drawn

865
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.119
from real life that happened to some of these motown groups.

866
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:12.400
Is you're you're taking black acts and because you're afraid

867
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:14.519
that you're not going to sell as many records if

868
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.199
you show their faces, they are putting white people on

869
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:19.880
the album covers. This is this is like some of

870
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.239
the crap that happened in the sixties that groups were

871
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:25.199
dealing with, and tells it, puts it into this story here. Uh,

872
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.320
it's it's a brutal blow like you like you feel

873
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:30.599
bad for them, and you're also you know, pissed off

874
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:31.519
for them, you know what I mean.

875
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.360
I'm angry for I'm angry for them. It's it's a

876
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:38.920
heartbreaking scene and it's and you're and you're just I

877
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:41.800
don't know. For me, I'm watching it, and I stayed

878
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:46.079
angry because, like you said, this this wasn't fiction. This

879
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:50.440
really happened. This was a real thing happening, uh, to

880
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.400
these artists in the sixties. And it's it's just sickening. Man.

881
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.039
So you had group, he had artists like Elvis and

882
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.960
Pat Boone who made their career out of hovering songs

883
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.480
by black artists. Like, Yeah, there'd be a good song,

884
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:04.920
and then the record label be like, oh, let's get

885
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:06.199
a white person to do it so we can sell,

886
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:08.559
so we can sell more to our audience. And then

887
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:11.400
you had situations like this where black actu are putting

888
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.679
out strong records, but they wouldn't market their image. They

889
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:19.639
felt like they couldn't do that. And then leon As

890
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:23.000
JT has his monologue which you partially quoted. I would

891
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:24.840
advise you not to fully quote it. I won't.

892
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:26.760
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna repeat everything he said,

893
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:28.360
but I can get the GYT.

894
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:30.920
Yeah. I don't think you and I are allowed to

895
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.880
fully quote it. But De La Soul actually sampled that

896
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.159
dialogue in there. I think it's nineteen ninety three song

897
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:39.440
called Patty Duke.

898
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:41.039
Oh, I got to check that out.

899
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.559
So that song opens with the sample of that dialogue

900
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.679
from this movie is right there at the beginning of

901
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:47.039
that track.

902
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:47.960
How about that?

903
00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:49.320
Yeah?

904
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:51.719
For you, Dave, is this the pivotal moment of the

905
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:53.760
movie or do you have something else in mind?

906
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:56.679
Well, you know, as I analyze the story structure of it,

907
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:58.320
I think what you have to look at is what

908
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.840
happens with Choirboy in the middle of the movie. So

909
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:03.440
he's called choir Boy for a couple of reasons, one

910
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:06.159
of which is that his father is the pastor of

911
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:10.760
a church, and when he's got an opportunity to go

912
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.679
full time with his music and hit the road with

913
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.880
this group, he does not have his father's blessing. His

914
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.480
father thinks that it is too worldly, too secular. It's

915
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.239
gonn be too much temptation, too much sin. You need

916
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:24.320
to be home serving the church. And he basically has

917
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.719
to stand up to his dad and rebel against him

918
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:29.960
in order to continue on with the Five Heart Beats.

919
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.280
And up until now, things have been positive with the

920
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:37.000
Five Heart Beats. We've seen good developments and think they've

921
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.639
been meeting with success and it's working out for them.

922
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:42.239
And there's that last confrontation with his dad over the

923
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:45.239
phone at a gas station and he leaves the Bible behind,

924
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:50.719
hile Cameron lingers on that Bible that's now abandoned, and

925
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.679
so now Choir Boys on a path where he's leaving

926
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:58.719
that moral compass behind in his home grounding behind, and

927
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.000
from that point forward, everything with the group starts to

928
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:01.800
unravel and go down.

929
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.199
Here, I think it's okay so I mean, I think

930
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:05.960
it's a great scene, but and you're saying, you know,

931
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.599
I'm just surprised because like choir Boy, who's not really

932
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:11.599
at the forefront, you're going, you're going Choirboy for the

933
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.320
pivotal moment. I think you might have won me over

934
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:16.800
there where you said, because like we I didn't think

935
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:18.719
about it, like the Bible's left there and then they

936
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:22.960
that's where they the drugs, the alcohol, and the decline

937
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:23.719
of the group happens.

938
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:27.039
Okay, Dave, it all falls apart, and then that ties

939
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.159
into the to the happy ending. I don't know how

940
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:31.000
much you want to get into the to the ending

941
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:32.960
of it, but it turns into a redemption story at

942
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.119
the end of the movie, and where where it also,

943
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:40.079
you know, and part of it involves choir Boy having

944
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:42.960
after their fame and their run is over. He's he's

945
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.280
back at that church survey and and so that that

946
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:47.639
art kind of goes full circle.

947
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:49.840
All right, Well, I will say that the ending of

948
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:54.000
the film very very uplifting, very very happy. I do

949
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:56.360
love the ending of the film, but I don't know,

950
00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:57.599
you might you might have won me over on the

951
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.840
pivot moment. We'll see we're gonna take one more break

952
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:04.519
and then we're gonna start wrapping things up. Def Dave,

953
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.719
welcome back. Talking about director Robert Townsend, def Dave. If

954
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:18.960
someone was unfamiliar with this director, which three films would

955
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:20.079
you suggest they watch?

956
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.079
Okay, well I do, I don't. He hasn't directed a

957
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:25.800
lot of feature films. He would go on, I think

958
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.079
to have his biggest success in television. But I would

959
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:32.320
say that The Five Heart Beats is actually my favorite

960
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:34.320
of all the movies he directed, So to meet that's

961
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.480
his best one. He started with Hollywood Shuffle, which is

962
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:42.480
an important movie. He made that with all his friends

963
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:44.840
for a very small amount of money, over a long

964
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.760
period of time. It completely independently produced. It has the

965
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:49.920
weigh Ins in it. It has several other actors that

966
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:51.280
were in Five Heart Beats.

967
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.280
Let's let's let's talk about Hollywood show. So Hollywood is

968
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:55.599
Hollywood Shuffle your first pick?

969
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.119
Hollywood chronologically, it's my first pick?

970
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:02.280
Yeah, Okay, So nineteen eighty seven Hollywood Shovel's he's a

971
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:05.880
signettes Yeah yeah, yeah. So he's here's the thing. He's

972
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:09.480
he's been in Hollywood a little bit, yeah, and he's

973
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:11.880
seeing the lack of roles available to black actors at

974
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:14.079
the time, so he makes the decision to step behind

975
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:17.559
the camera make his own film. Yeah, maxes out his

976
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:22.039
credit cards and spends nearly one hundred thousand dollars to write, direct,

977
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:26.599
and produce and star in this film. This is the first, uh,

978
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:29.280
my first experience with Robert Townson watching Hollywood Shuffle. I

979
00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:32.719
remember catching this movie on on Showtime. I think, uh,

980
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:37.079
back in the eighties, late eighties that is. And it's hilarious,

981
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:39.559
it's and it's so good because it has a message.

982
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.920
It truly does have a message. Uh. He's with a

983
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:45.480
lot of a lot of familiar faces. Paul Mooney, he's

984
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:50.000
got the Wayns brothers. Hollywood Shuffle. You're saying five heart

985
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.280
Beats is his best film. I think Hollywood Shuffle is

986
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.840
his best. But well, I digress that's that. You know,

987
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:57.599
that's a different that's a different conversation. But Hollywood Shuffle

988
00:50:58.159 --> 00:50:58.880
your first pick.

989
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:01.280
What he's holding up Marrior to Hollywood and he's showing

990
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.239
like how minorities are treated a lot of times. Yeah,

991
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:08.039
and and basically the message of that movie it is

992
00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:10.639
it's almost like Kentucky Fried movie. It's a series of

993
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:14.400
standalone vignettes where you see the same cast playing different

994
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:15.159
parts in every skit.

995
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:17.280
But he's but he's moving. It's like he's using these

996
00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:19.000
vignettes to tell a story.

997
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:23.880
Right, And the moral is, don't degrade yourself for us,

998
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:28.000
for like a stereotypical role in somebody else's movie. You know.

999
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.119
The tagline is you can always find work at the

1000
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.079
post office. Like, it's better to take something more humble

1001
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.360
that you can keep your dignity.

1002
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:38.559
All right, your second your second suggestion for for someone

1003
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:40.360
that's unfamiliar with Robert Townson.

1004
00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:44.920
It's as well you may not. People may not realize this,

1005
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:49.840
but the Eddie Murphy concert film Raw and ten eighty eight,

1006
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.239
directed by Robert Townsend.

1007
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:56.639
Eddie Murphy Raw, I'm gonna go ahead say, okay, so interesting,

1008
00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.239
Uh we are two for two. Now if I was

1009
00:52:01.239 --> 00:52:03.199
in a suggest three movies, we're two for two here,

1010
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.480
Eddie Murphy. Rall you know, Hollywood schuff. I'm with you,

1011
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.400
Eddie Murphy Raw, I'm with you. I'm gonna go ahead

1012
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:13.039
and say, think Eddie Murphy Raw is the stand up

1013
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:17.360
comedian's film. This is the one to be measured. This

1014
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.480
is the measuring stick. Right, if you're gonna be if

1015
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:21.840
you're gonna be a comedian, you're gonna do a movie

1016
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:26.159
that's basically your stand up routine. Eddie Murphy. Raw is

1017
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:27.719
the blueprint, right.

1018
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:30.519
It's not only Eddie Murphy at the height of his powers,

1019
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.920
but like you said, it's the standard for all stand

1020
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:38.440
up comic films and so, yeah, and I find it

1021
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:40.639
ironic to hear. You know, Eddie Murphy was the guy

1022
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.400
who beat him out for Saurday Night Live in nineteen eighty. Yeah,

1023
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.440
and here we are, seven or eight years later and

1024
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:46.599
he's directing.

1025
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:48.159
Raw for him, he's directing Eddie Murphy.

1026
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.280
He's directing him.

1027
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:51.480
Yeah, And they've been they've been friends ever since. And

1028
00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:53.679
I love that. I mean, their kids play together, or

1029
00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:55.400
their kids did when they were little, they played together.

1030
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:56.639
I think this is fantastic.

1031
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:01.400
What I love is, you know, Robert Townsend and kenan

1032
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.760
Irey Williams started out working together and because of how

1033
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:09.079
things went, they ended up working separately. But both of

1034
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:12.960
them became like the leading face for in the leading

1035
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.840
voice for black independent filmmaking.

1036
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:18.000
Absolutely, and they.

1037
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:19.880
Were doing it at a high level with huge success.

1038
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:24.960
You know, so and anybody regardless of race or color

1039
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:28.639
that can make it as an independent filmmaker. Stay and

1040
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:32.480
control own everything, Stay in control of everything and not

1041
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:34.960
sell out and have enough success to be able to

1042
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:38.599
do this at a high level. That's off. That's awesome.

1043
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:42.679
All Right, you got one more suggestion, And here's where

1044
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.519
we're gonna. I guarantee we're gonna, we're gonna. We're gonna

1045
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.159
be a split decision here because I doubt that you're

1046
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:50.920
gonna have the pick that I got. But what's one

1047
00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:52.159
more one more suggestion?

1048
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.239
Okay, I've seen you go both ways on this on

1049
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:57.280
your show. If I'm allowed to pick five heart beats,

1050
00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:58.559
I'm picking five heart beats.

1051
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:01.119
If you all allow all right, I'll give it. I'll

1052
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:03.000
give it. I'll give it to you only because he

1053
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:08.039
his filmography is not extensive. He's a lot of amazing television.

1054
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:09.599
I know we didn't really talk about his TV work,

1055
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.599
but I'll i'll. You know, if I can let Amber Lewis,

1056
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:14.079
the Voice of Reason, get away with it, I guess

1057
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:15.760
I guess I gotta let deaf Dave get away with it.

1058
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:17.280
So you're you're picking the five heart beats?

1059
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.000
Yeah, and you know there's another one hanging out there

1060
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:21.440
that he directed. I don't know if you're gonna pick

1061
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.480
it up or not want what are you gonna pick?

1062
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:26.079
All Right, So if you haven't seen this film, I

1063
00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:29.559
employ you to watch it because it's really good. And

1064
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.000
don't look at the critics, don't look at the the

1065
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:34.960
you know, rotten tomatoes and all that bullshit. Just watch

1066
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.599
the film because it's it's he. This is this is

1067
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.760
a movie where I feel like he his direction is

1068
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:45.519
superb and it's amazing performances. I'm talking about two thousand

1069
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:49.920
and eight's Phantom Punch seen you have You're not familiar, Okay,

1070
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:53.880
so it's a bio it's a bio pick starring Ving

1071
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:58.760
Rams as boxer Sonny Listen and yeah, it covers like

1072
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.679
the Liston Patterson era of the sport. Obviously, it depicts

1073
00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:06.280
the famous phantom punch he receives against Muhammad Ali that

1074
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:08.559
was very controversial. A lot of people thought he took

1075
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:11.039
a dive, like because of the way that you know,

1076
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:14.280
Alli's punch. It's like, people, did he did he actually

1077
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:16.480
hit him? You know, twenty seconds in the fight he's down,

1078
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:19.480
so you know, it covers the dark side of his

1079
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.760
life with prison and the mob. You know his suspicious

1080
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:25.679
death in nineteen seventy one, was he murdered? Was it

1081
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:30.039
a heroin overdose? Very good film, and I would recommend

1082
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:34.119
it because, again, you hear the name Robert Townsend, you

1083
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:37.079
immediately think I'm ready to laugh. Even in a movie

1084
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:41.679
like The Five Heartbeats, it's injected with enough comedy, right,

1085
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:46.599
Phantom Punch doesn't feel like a Robert Townson film, But

1086
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:47.760
I think it's one of his best.

1087
00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:48.840
Wow.

1088
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:50.679
Yeah, check that out, Phantom.

1089
00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:53.320
I will check that out. One. I do want to

1090
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:55.400
mention I didn't make it one of my picks because

1091
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:59.239
it's not a theatrical release. This was a television movie. Yeah,

1092
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:05.039
but in two thousand he would reunite with guess who Leon, Yeah,

1093
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:08.840
and they would do a biopic on Little Richard with

1094
00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:10.199
Leon in the Little Richard role.

1095
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:11.920
Well, you know what, you're not allowed to suggest it

1096
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.119
because that's not the way we do it. Death.

1097
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:17.920
Those connections there, there's five heartbeat connections.

1098
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:22.280
Don't don't go Scott Hoffman in your answer. All right,

1099
00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:26.079
I'll tell you. I'll ask you though, and I already

1100
00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:29.639
know your answer. But for the record, do you recommend

1101
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:31.559
The Five Heart Beats?

1102
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.960
I recommend it unreservedly, while at the same time acknowledging

1103
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:39.760
it's not perfect. There's some unevenness to it. But if

1104
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:41.880
you like this genre music, if you like the Temptations,

1105
00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:46.199
you like motown, classic motown, there's everything to love here.

1106
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:51.159
And the performances, the singing performances, so much fun. I

1107
00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:54.719
find this movie very charming. It's low budget, it's quirky,

1108
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:57.199
it's a little bit uneven in spots, but it also

1109
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:02.440
has a wonderful, heartwarming, uplifting ending. It's ultimately a positive

1110
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:07.119
message and I I am totally charmed and one over

1111
00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:09.559
by this movie. I highly recommend it. And it's hard

1112
00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:11.239
to see. It's hard. It's you know, it's hard to

1113
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:13.000
find it out there, and it didn't have a great run.

1114
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:14.719
It didn't make a lot of money. It's a little

1115
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:17.239
bit obscure. It's it's an underrated gym.

1116
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:19.760
Where'd you want? I caught this on Prime? Where'd you

1117
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:20.119
watch it?

1118
00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:22.199
I had to check it out in the library, watch

1119
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:23.000
on DVD.

1120
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:26.239
All Right, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna crash my

1121
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:31.920
answer very carefully here. All right, I'm gonna say see

1122
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:34.519
it for the music. That's that's what I would tell you,

1123
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:39.119
if you, if you, if you love Motown, you love this, this, this,

1124
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:44.519
this music, see the movie, but watch the nineteen ninety

1125
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:48.119
eight temptations if you want to see a better version

1126
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:51.400
of this film. That's that's how That's how I'll say it.

1127
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.239
That's no argument. Yeah, no argument there, all right, that's great.

1128
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:56.599
He did do a making of The Five Heart Beats

1129
00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:58.840
in twenty eighteen. It's behind the scenes a documentary, so

1130
00:57:58.920 --> 00:57:59.320
there you go.

1131
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:02.880
Yeah, you mentioned we didn't get a chance to watch it,

1132
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:05.840
but I wondering whether that's available. I'd like to see

1133
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:08.719
it because I'll be honest with you, sometimes when you

1134
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:12.320
see a documentary about a film, or you see like

1135
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.679
the right kind of extras, like you know, behind the

1136
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:19.679
scenes extras, it kind of makes you like the movie more.

1137
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:21.559
It makes you enjoy the movie more. So I would

1138
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:27.239
be interested to see that twenty eighteen documentary. But until then, listeners,

1139
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:30.039
what do you think of The Five Heartbeats? Have you

1140
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.320
seen it? Am I wrong on this one? Is deaf

1141
00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:38.000
Dave right? You know he literally is deaf Dave Right.

1142
00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:44.960
I was, Yeah, I set you up for that one.

1143
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:47.320
You can let us know on social media. You'll find

1144
00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.840
us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out

1145
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:55.280
www dot a film by podcast dot com for all

1146
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:58.519
of our episodes that are streaming free, as well as

1147
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.920
some film and TV article. You can write to us

1148
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:05.159
at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with

1149
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.800
your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your

1150
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:11.199
response on the show and send you some of a

1151
00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:14.800
film by swag Deaf. I gotta thank you again. I

1152
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.599
knew that I wanted to talk about this movie when

1153
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:19.880
I was looking at our our new season and you

1154
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:23.440
were the first and only name that popped in my head.

1155
00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:26.920
Is like, I gotta get him again. The The Apples

1156
00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:29.719
and Oranges podcast. That was a very fun time talking

1157
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.119
about the Beatles and the Beach Boys, and then you

1158
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:34.239
got this. You're kind of like, like I said, you know,

1159
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:36.880
you're like the podcast personality, but you also, uh, you

1160
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:39.599
got you got a pretty fun Facebook page that you've

1161
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:40.679
been doing lately.

1162
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:42.960
Yeah. I've set up a public page. I hope everybody

1163
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.360
will come find me there and follow me. It's just

1164
00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:48.599
simply you know, dot com slash the Deaf Dave and

1165
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.440
I just put fun stuff up there and also where

1166
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.480
you can track all my various podcast appearances because I'm

1167
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:56.519
kind of a no mad guest right now, I'm liable

1168
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:58.079
to pop up with any number of shows.

1169
00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:00.000
But I do thank you for joining us deaf Day,

1170
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:02.880
and to all of you listening to the show, following

1171
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:07.679
us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon, we absolutely

1172
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:08.000
thank you.