1976 - Carrie

0:00 Go home, take care of yourself, Cassie. We're all very sorry about this incident. Carrie, would you like to go to the infra ary lie down for a while. I think carry can go home. We're all sorry about this incident, Cassie. Hello everybody, and welcome back to nineteen seventy six. It's a limited series from a film by podcast. We are taking a look at some of the iconic films of the year nineteen seventy six, talking about what made them great, some of the underrated moments, and the words that matter, our favorite quotes. That is the last time we discussed a horror movie starring William Kat was on our limited series nineteen eighty six, when David Burns and Docking Based seventy seven's Dayton Johnson joined me for the Horror Comedy House. David is with me once again. Hello David, Hello, how are real? I'm doing good? And this time representing the Docking Based seventy seven podcast is Amber Lewis. Hello, Amber, Hello, nice to be back. Amber. It is nice to have you back. Our listeners

1:30 obviously will remember that Amber was with us for the mel Brooks episode when we covered high anxiety, one of our fastest downloaded episodes ever. Amber. I don't know if we had a chance to talk about that, but it is one of the most popular ones we've ever done, so all because of Amber. It's exactly what it is. Good job. Yeah, I mean hashtag team Amber. But has to do it? Sure, so isn't me? You know, it's it's if it mel Brooks. It's definitely Amber Lewis. But listen, Amber. You also we had such a good time you came back. You did the Kenneth Branna episode with me. Not too long ago we covered Sleuth, which was a quite unusual film with Michael Caine. Yeah, law, we need to do more Branna episodes. Did you do any of your homework? I've been working on it. Yeah, we'll have that conversation off off Mike, but yes. And then obviously you have been just knocking it out of the park on our Patreon in our Lost episodes in nineteen eighty six, you've done several there. I would like to mention our newest patron, Steve Cooley, and welcome Steve. We appreciate your support, and to the others that are following us on Patreon that have not yet joined, I saw you know Patreon has this new thing. You can follow your favorite podcast now. Don't have to necessarily join them, but you know, when they drop a new episode and maybe a free episode, you do have access to it. We have dropped a couple free episodes, so those of you

3:04 falling on Patreon check those out and we'll see you there now. Then, guys, we started this month of October talking about a Brian to Palma film, and I love that we're ending the month talking about a Brian to Palma film. So let's head to the nineteen seventy six prom with Carrie. Meet Carrie, and she's the girl no one likes and everyone makes fun of, the girl who lives in that creepy house with her cruel mother, The girl with the strange power. She's about to turn a high school prom into a nightmare. If you have a taste for terror, you have a date with Carrie rated r. So. In nineteen seventy four, Stephen King writes his first novel, by a young girl with telekinetic powers that gets pushed a little too far by her classmates and domineering mother. You guys, have read the book or I have not read the book? Okay, So yeah, I have not, Amber, what about you being a huge Stephen King fan.

4:13 I have read the book. I think I've read it twice, but it's been forever, like maybe high school last yeh, I think I think it was high school last time I read it. Definitely. I mean, yeah, I think this is his first novel. He knocks it out of the park. Well. The story that I love is that he was struggling with it in the beginning and actually threw it in the garbage. Yeah, and his wife Tabitha rescued it from the garbage and said just finish it because I want to know what happens to her. And look what we got because of that. I want to point out. I want to point out our friends Jason Colvin and d Graves from the Shirley Keep Me Serious podcast. Earlier this month they did their their top five horror movies of the seventies, and I learned that story on that episode, Amber, where you're right, you know, he throws it in the garbage and Tabitha saves it, you know, to uh much to his surprise and says, hey, yeah, let's let's let's see what Let's see what happens with it. So Brian de Palma has a friend who just happens to be friends with Stephen King, and this person puts it in front of the Palma says, check out, check out this new book. Palma loves it. Contacts his agent says, I got to get the rights. Got who owns it? Nobody owns it, and he secures the film rights. He gives Stephen King twenty five hundred dollars, even by nineteen seventy six standards that that is nothing, you know, yep,

5:47 but I love that Stephen King. You know, in later years he never said, like, boy, they took me for a ride on that one. He said, you know what, I was twenty six and it was a good paycheck and I'm happy that they did it. It was a learning curve for him too. He realized, you know, what he could do later on down the road with his name in his books. Well especially, I mean, the book wasn't that successful, like it didn't really pick up until his other books hitt and his career started rolling. So he probably figured this is the best deal I can make, right, Yeah, this is one of those great situations where you know, because we all know King has been very critical of the film adaptations and you know, something like hard for people to get him right, I think, I think you're absolutely right.

6:35 There. There's some that I think are are just spot on there, they're fantastic, and others I'm like, it's awful, you know, And I share his sentiments. This is a situation where not only does he love what Brian de Palmer does, Palma changes the ending. You know, this ends a little bit different than than the book, and Stephen King says this is better. The movie version is better, you know. I think, uh, I think the only other director to get that compliment is Frank Darabant on The Mist when when Darabont changed the ending to the miss and King was like, yeah, this is way better than what I wrote. You know, let's just stick with this. They don't talk about Bruno. I don't agree with that. Stevie can have his own opinion because he's the genius that started at all. But I'm gonna say no to that one. Yeah. Well, we know, we know he famously is against Kubrick Shining Amber. Where you fall on that adaptation as a Stanley Kubrick movie, I love it.

7:35 As Jack Nicholson. Really, you can tell he went through the book, no matter what Kubrick did with it. Jack Nicholson went through that book and his portrayal is exactly what's in the book. That's fair so, but as like an adaptation of the novel, heck no, but we get you know, redemption with Doctor Sleep that. I think that kind of brought us full circle and kind of blended the two together in a really satisfying way. I think that movie's critically underrated, very oh my god, yeah, and so completely terrifying. Yeah, oh goshya. Speaking of terrifying, there is a specific nod to one of Horror's greatest classics in this movie. I'm talking about the music. So before his death, Bernard Hermann, he's on board to compose the score for Carrie. Unfortunately he passes away, but the palma is set. He wont that four note violin that is so you know, painfully obvious from Psycho. He's like, I gotta have it. He uses it anyways, which I thought was you know, I thought that was kind of cool, you know. Yeah, and he uses it quite a bit in the film too. Oh yeah, well, I mean anytime she uses her power, that's that's the noise, right, That's what we gave. Did you guys pick up on the fact these kids are going to Baits High School?

9:01 Of course they did. Yeah, you didn't see that? Okay, I thought, Okay, I got I got to wow someone at least. Yeah. Again, it's another nod. I don't I don't believe that's amber. I don't remember that being in the book. And again we read it in high school. But I think that's right. I did do a little research, so my knowledge of the book is coming from that, I will admit, because I don't remember reading it. You know, it was so long ago, but it was not named Baits High School in the in the book, So that was a good little I love it when they throw in little things like that, Little nods like that to other classics, I think are brilliant. I love it. I love it when we do that. A couple other little little fun facts, a little little behind the scenes that I thought was kind of that that I enjoy when I when we cover these kinds of movies. It was a twenty ten interview with the av Club PJ Souls, who plays Norma. She's one of the mean girls. Uh that kind of you know, we'll we'll get we'll get into her character in a minute. But according to PJ. Souls, she claims that Di Palma invited Steven Spielberg to the set because there were quote a lot of pretty girls, and she she goes on to, yeah, yeah, you can't deny that.

10:15 That's that's that's true. A lot of beautiful actresses are in this movie. She goes on to say that Spielberg is like hitting on the girls. She herself turned him down, but Amy Irving did not. And as we all know, they were married from like nineteen eighty five to nineteen eighty nine. So yep, ye, Spielberg's cruising for chicks. Yeah, another another cool You know, we talked about Spilberg. Let's talk about George Lucas for a second. So it's it's well known that Briana Palm and George Lucas are simultaneously holding auditions for Carrie and Star Wars. William Kat and Amy Amy Irving had read for Luke Skywalker and Princess Leah. Obviously we know how that turned out for him, but they had better luck on the audition process for Carrie and fun fact, they were actually a real life couple, like they were dating, you know, or they had dated before. So like the chem you know, the chemistry in the movie I feel is kind of genuine.

11:16 I think that worked out for all of us. Of the casting of those two movies. I just can't not see William Kat's hair and there's blonde curls as Luke Skywalker. I just don't even know. It doesn't work in this movie. All I could see is him on stage with led Zeppelin when his Robert plants double because like he has nailed the look. Yes, I want I don't want to hog all the glory Here, Amber Dave, who's got something for me? I have a little tidbit for you. The great Bill Paxton was a production assistant on this Yes, really, there's a great uh making of it was like the twentieth anniversary of Carrie and they did a making of documentary. It's on YouTube. Sissy SpaceX husband was the production designer.

12:13 Yeah, and Bill Paxton was his assistant, and he talks about like what a great work ethic he had, and he scouted the location for Farmer John's where they they go for the pigs, and just what a joy he was to work with as this assistant on this movie. I cannot believe that Bill Paxton is working behind the scenes on Carrie. That's that blows my mind, but like it kind of fits his personality. I feel like, well yeah, but still, that's like when you find out Harrison Ford was a carpenter, You're like, yeah, it's it. Yeah, yeah, I mean I could yeah, Bill pack, I could totally see him as the workingman getting things done behind this, behind this, But I had no idea.

13:03 Yeah, I didn't know that at all. Well, let's uh, let's continue the mind blowing conversation. Let's talk about the casting, starting with the role of Carrie herself. So Melanie Griffith, Linda Blair, and Farah Fawcett all auditioned to this role. Yeah. Now, Blair turns it down for fear of being type cast because as we all know, she was in The Exorcist. Fawcett has a scheduling conflict with Charlie's angels. Thank goodness, yes, yeah, could you okay? World is she bullied? Yeah? Well in what universe? Is she the outcast? Exactly? Not happening. I'll give Sissy space at credit because they they definitely pull off this Adrian thing with her in the for the most of the movie where she does look plain, she looks homely when she thought that she was a teenager when she made this movie. I died when I found out she was like twenty six. Yeah, she was late twenties. Yeah, twenty six, twenty seven years old.

14:09 She's married, and let's I gotta I gotta be honest, like when she heads to prom, she's stunning. She is just a beautiful, beautiful girl. I don't know, like back to Farah Faucet, Like, I don't know how. I don't know what they could have possibly done to make her look so plain as to be bullied by the by the mean girls in class. There's just there's just no way. So nope, yeah, yeah, yeah, so Sissy had that that innocent look to her that was required for this role. You know, someone who's gonna get picked on, and there's no way fair of face would have pulled that off. Yeah, so Sissy. She turns down a ten thousand dollars commercial just to audition for Di Palma, and she calls him up. She tells him about the commercial and says, you know, what do you think I should do? And lo blow He just says, I think you should take the commercial. He has no interest in seeing her in this role. Yeah, according to her husband, though, she stays up the night before, reads the book cover to cover. She runs vasoline through her hair to give it like a matted, stringy look, and then she puts on this this this ugly sailor dress that her mom had made from her youth, and she goes into audition for it and knocks it out of the park. The Palma loves it. I love it when people get into the roles before they actually get the roles, because you know, that just adds that additional element for the director to be like, Okay, yeah, you're gonna go that much well out of your way

15:39 to get that role. I'm probably gonna want you for this. So she did something similar when they did the ending stuff, when she had all that fake blood on her, Yeah, she went like she went in dazed with that. Both clothes didn't wash them because she wanted to keep the effect. You know, I thought that was pretty brilliant because it took like three days of filming and she stayed in those bloody clothes like that. This is a you know, you always hear about method acting, and you always hear about people getting really weird on set just so they can be in their character. It's always it's always some actor, though I've never heard about an actress doing this, have you guys? Am? I am I wrong? Like, is there any kind of famous story Zamber where like an actress went went total totally method and got weird on set. My mind's a blank because it's all full of like Daniel d Lewis and all the crazy stuff. Yeah, but I will say I was very surprised that it was Sissy Spacek that would go in that direction. She seems a lot more cerebral to me, where she would do like all the research and have like notebooks and things like that, but not necessarily like in her behavior change that much. So I was surprised that that was the direction that her artistry took. Yeah, she so As a story he goes she She gives the cast of heads up. She says, Hey, We're gonna have so much fun once we wrap, and I'm a really nice person and I'm I'm really looking forward to getting to know you all. But not while we're shooting. She keeps to herself. She hides

17:14 away on set, doesn't interact with anybody. Dave to your point when they're filming the prompt scene and she's covered in the pig's blood, she stayed like that. She didn't she didn't shower or for three days, clean up for three days. I'm sure continuity editor like really appreciated. It is stop much easier and even at the end, you know, we've got the the the credit stinger, you know, when Amy Irving's dropping the flowers down and the hand comes up and grabs grabs her and you know, gives the audience a jump that is Sissy's Space six hand. They didn't she didn't even want a stunt double to like, you know, she said, I'll do it, and Brianda palms like, we're not. It's you know, we're not gonna bury you in dirt like someone else can do it. She's like, no, I have to do it. That's intense dedication. Yeah, that's dedication.

18:06 Wow, that's pretty impressive. Absolutely well. And she you know, she's nominated for Best Actress. You know, she loses to Fade Done Away. I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that, because we talked about Network, which maybe did fade down away when Poor So fade doun Away wins Best Actress for Network and we've we've covered that one and she is, she's amazing in it, But watching this again, I don't know that she beats out Sissy's Basic. What do you guys think? No, I'm with you on that Sissy Space should have won the Oscar for this to dive this deep as she did, you know, and then that the whole ending sequence she deserved the Oscar well, and to just play so incredibly vulnerable, right, I think it's really really challenging to dom h and that that whole opening sequence and you know, very voyeuristic in that locker room when the camera is like slowly going through, and Sissy's basic, you know, pulling off what she pulls off in the shower scene, that takes a lot in itself. Typically you don't want to ask an actress or anybody really, you know, to go completely nude in front of the screen fit a camera, because everybody's going to see it and it's never going to go away. It's gonna be in cinema forever, and people can go back and revisit that scene over and over and over. In order to produce her to do that, and what she does in the shower and stuff like that. You know, the hand movements and the camera body movements with her body and stuff like that.

19:34 That alone takes a lot for an actor or an actress to pull off. So that was just right there in itself shows what Sissy's basic had and was bringing to that film. I gotta be honest, since you brought that scene up, and you know, Scott and I talked about Brian de Palma when we did Body Double at the beginning of this month. He's got this thing for a voyeuristic shower scenes. They're in several of his movies. Yes, I think this one might be the most awkward to watch. I think now. I mean from the standpoint that, uh, they're teenagers, so that's just inappropriate on a lot of levels. I don't know. The Dressed to Hill like is so cringe. I remember watching that for the first time and like, I texted my mom and I was like, Wow, that movie is something else. She was like, imagine seeing it in the theater.

20:32 I'm like a big nineties yeah screen, Yeah that ever, you have a You make a great point there, but I don't know, maybe maybe they're teenagers and it's so just yeah, yeah, when I'm thirteen watching this, I was probably you know, I was like, yeah, okay, but a different story. Sure now I'm gonna Now now I'm an adult, I'm like this, do we have to get so? You know, I don't know? Well, and I feel like we have a cut version. Yeah, it's such a man thing, because no locker room I was ever in was ever like that, Like you very discreetly change your clothes and move on with your life. You're not running around, you know, whipping people with towels. Like that's not a boy thing. This is ok. This isn't going on in the girl's locker room, remember, because it's it looks like it's spring break, Like I hate crazy. It is not that rowdy at all. Well, however, the bullying scene, like, yeah, as horrific as it is, like, I think it's shot in such a way that you can really easily see how it happened and how it ramped up so quickly and how Sue got sucked into it when that's really not who she is, right, Yeah, I mean tri mentality really hits hard in this scene, and it's it's hard to watch, you know. I think it's one of the harder scenes to watch in a briind movie, just because your heart is breaking for this poor little girl who doesn't know what's going on with

22:04 her. You know, she's freaking out, and you know, I don't know just just how mean these girls are. It's terrible. Yeah, it's it's rough to watch, there's no doubt about that. And watching it again and I haven't seen it in a year, watching those scenes, I'm like, oh, man, I forget how rough some of this stuff was in this movie. Yeah. Yeah, Well, speaking of bullying, let's talk about another amazing actress. Let's talk about Piper Laurie, who had retired from acting. Last time we had seen her was nineteen sixty one's The Hustler, which she is brilliant in opposite Paul Newman. She doesn't understand the role, though, and it's it's her husband that suggests that it's probably more like a comedic, yeah thing that's going on? What? Yeah, I saw them?

22:49 He thought of, did you say this? Yeah? Like, what do you what are you reading to think that this is any kind of comedic tones to it? But I don't know. I think that might have been like a defensive tactic because the mother is so abusive and so completely unhinged crazy from the very beginning, Like she doesn't grow more crazy as the story goes on. You just are peeling off the layers of crazy and seeing how far it goes. So it could just be that she just couldn't conceive of somebody being so abusive and horrible. I gotta give it to Piper Laurie's performance, though, because there is one scene. Watching this one undred hundreds of times growing up, I always like, yeah, she's the religious fanatic. She is the crazy nut job that this that Carrie has to deal with. But watching it recently, there is a scene I really feel sorry for her.

23:44 And I'm talking about when she's going door to door and she hits yeah, she hits uh, who is it? Priscilla Pointer, who plays Ammy Irvan's mom, and the way she gets kind of shut down. She knows she's getting shut down, and she just says, I see again, and she just looks defeated. She looks it's almost like it's almost like in that moment, Priscilla Pointer's character kind of turned her into a beggar in a way. You know, she's like her head's down, kind of get rid of you. Yeah, I felt I felt bad for in that moment. I mean it was fleeting because she has a psychopath but but but yeah, she she's amazing in this performance. Uh, she's also nominated. She's got the uh the supporting actress loses it to Beatrice Straight, which I feel like that's justified.

24:34 Like if you if you know that scene in Network where Beatrice uh Straight goes off on her husband over the affair, I'm like, yeah, that that woman deserved that. Oscar So still would have been a tough call because Piper was incredible in this Oh gosh, Yeah, I mean she's she's amazing. She has some of the best she has some of the best, the best lines, she's got some of the best scenes. Yeah. Did anybody else feel like they were watching two different movies though? Explain? Like, I feel like there's the movie that's Carrie at school and the bulleting and the telekinesis and all of that, and then there's this completely other movie about this abusive home life that she's suffering from. And even like the way it's shot and everything, he doesn't use the same camera style when she's at home versus when she's at school. And I don't know, I felt. I was just thinking about it when I was watching it earlier today, and I hate all the scenes with the mother. She's just so horrible that I wish they could cut all of that out. And I thought, you know, you kind of could be and just make one whole movie that's just the school.

25:48 That's a hot take you could. You're saying you could cut, you could cut Margaret White out of the movie, and it's it's still uh. I mean, I think you get some good like gossipy exposition about well, you know, she's got that crazy religious mom or whatever, and and then you just keep rolling with the high school story. But how how would you get rid of her at the end? Who Carrie? Carrie? Yeah, if you would cut out of her scenes, I mean no, I agree with well no, because I did. I came up with a better well not a better ending, but a different ending. Where wouldn't it be wouldn't it have been creepy if she like sets fire to the school and walks out the doors and you know, blows up the car and then just keeps walking and that's the end, like walks into the sunset kind of thing. Yeah, like you don't know what happens to her, she enacted her revenge and off she goes. So interesting that you say that because for two reasons. First off, she doesn't die at home in the book, she dies she dies out in like a field, you know, on the side of the road.

26:56 Yeah. Amy Irving's character Sue, she catches up with her, lets her know like, hey, I wasn't involved with the prank, and she kind of dies out in the middle of the road or whatever. But to Amber's point, there was talk, like, I want to say, two thousand and two, there was talk about a TV series about Carrie. So, Dave you remember USA had done The Dead Zone with Anthony Michael Hall. It's a smashed success, and they're thinking, hey, we can capture lightning in a bottle again, let's do Carrie. And apparently there was a TV movie version of Carrie, and their whole thing was, hey, she walks right out of town the way Amber suggesting. And the reason it didn't work was because the story premise for the show was going to be Carrie was gonna kind of just walk from town, like she was going to drift from town to town, kind of like the Incredible Hulk and help people fight bullies.

27:55 And meanwhile, David Keith was like this investigative reporter who was not he was I can't reme if he was a reporter or a detective. But David Keith is trying to track her down and she's just drifting from town to town and and in the end they're like, there's no interest, and yeah, at best, this is the fugitive. At worst it's it's the incredible Hulk. So we can't do it. But but Amber there was there were people out there that had that that exact thought. It's not so out of the left field. No, it's not. No, I don't know that I would turned her into well, I mean, considering how introverted she is, the idea that she's just gonna pick up random jobs at car washes and diners and getting skills. Yeah, you're getting bullied. Okay, let me use my powers and okay, I'll take you know, I'll wipe out your bully for you. Yeah. Well, listen, we talked about our conversation Dave about William cat in House. Ye here he is as Robert Plant, I mean Tommy Ross. Initially, the Palma is looking at John Ritter for the role of Tommy Ross, and you know, can't be we can't be too sad for Ritter. He does go on to get another Stephen King project when he shows up an it, but yeah, later on down the road, of course. Yeah. What'd you guys, amber, What did you think of William cat as Tommy Ross? Well, given my age, when I see him, all I think of his greatest American hero. Yeah. Yeah,

29:26 And I hear the theme song in my same here, but hair Dow's aside, and and you know, blue Ruffled Texas aside. You know, he's the you know, the the charming, nice guy, you know. And I think it's hard to sell that just because your girlfriend asked you to you're gonna ask the town outcast to prom. But I think he sold it pretty well. I like the fact that he is not the stereotypical jock in a high school movie. Yes, he writes poetry, he's talented, he's good natured, he's not picking on anybody. And when his girlfriend's like, yeah, do something nice, take take this girl out, He's like, all right, sure, you know that's what you want, and uh, And I kind of feel like when they're at prom, maybe he's starting to fall for carry a little bit. You know, I think he was. I think that was genuine. You could see it. Yeah, you know, why am I here? Why am I here with you? You know?

30:27 And he's just he's charming, he's he's got like this Chris reeves Superman quality to him, where he's just like, you're here because I asked you, you're here. He liked my poem. I'm in I'm digging him. I'm like, this is a genuine nice guy. And when he when that bucket drops and hits him in the head, knocks him out, I'm like, someone helped, someone helped the prom king. Let's get him some medical attention, right, one of the scenes that he died, that's right, I forgot that's right. We don't know that when you're watching it. But you're like, no, you don't. You find that worse? Was it part two? I think because they that's when they were like people died and yeah, yeah, I know he died. Yeah, the book reminds me. But yeah, you're like the whole town. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say it's like one of the Brian Opalma. I love a lot of his frame shots in this movie, but one of the frame shots that really stands out to me was William katt Uh in the classroom when the teacher was asking her Carrie a question and she was trying to answer, So instead of Carrie being in the frame, you get that close up shot of him with her in the background. I loved that shot. I really did. Dave directors on directors de Palma is famous for like that's the split screen. He uses it in this, but he he's also a little more reserved in this what do you think of his his his shots and care, so it it added to the tension specific the ending. My understanding is Brian Opalma had done

31:57 a lot more split stre and that what we've gotten in this movie. Oh and he actually went back and re edited it and got rid of some of the split screen because he felt it was just too much. So he used it a little bit more sparingly what we see in the movie. But I really liked it. A lot of people don't use it, Brian does, and I thought it worked really well in this movie. Of all the chaos that was going on, uh in you know that scene, I thought it was important to see what was going on at the same time of you know, staying on Carrie but we're getting some other shots that going on, or you know, around the dance, those kind of things. I loved it. I you know, I forgot some of that. So when I went back to revisit this film, I said, oh, I forgot how cool this was, you know. So as a director myself, I digged it.

32:45 I really did. Okay, let's talk about Amy Irving. So she's got the part of Carrie mm hmm until Sissy's basic wants it and auditions for it. That's gonna be a that's gonna be a rough blow, right like you Yeah, you're pretty sure you got the lead, and then you're told, well, you're gonna play a side character. You're gonna play a smaller character. She's playing opposite her real life mother that we talked about, Priscilla Pointer, who's playing Missus Snell. I can't see Priscilla Pointer and not immediately think of Nightmare on the Street, Three Dream Warriors, Right, I thought the same thing, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, she Well, she plays like the the mean spirit. Well obviously she means well, but she's the doctor at the at the hospital that's trying to get the kids to go to sleep. She's fighting, fighting, Nancy and Neil over it.

33:40 Oh okay, wasn't there a in the dance scene at the end when all the chast was going on, Like the daughter like started freaking out in one of the scenes, and her mom freaked out too, thinking it was real because her performance was so good that she actually call her by her real name instead of the character's name. But so much stuff was going on. Yeah, I think it's uhh yeah, yeah. When she wakes up screaming, yeah, you can actually she calls her Amy, she doesn't call Sue. Yeah, and they they just left it in because theyd well the musical musical drowned out and no one's paying attention and there's no one so real, you had to have left them, right, I think you have to, right, Yeah, absolutely, But I had no idea she was Amy Irving's mom.

34:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just it's blown my mind now that we're talking about her in nightmaent on Street three, and we were talking about Craig Wasson and body Double at the beginning of the month, who acted opposite her at Nightmare on Street three. Well, well, well I never expected the nightment Um Street three Dream Warriors bookend for the month of October. Considering when talking about Freddy Krueger at all, I did not have that card either. I don't think any of us did. How about how about John Travolta slineball. He plays right well, if you're if you're getting the Vinnie Barberino vibe from it, it's because he auditioned dressed as Barberino because he was on his lunch break from film and welcome, Welcome back Carter. He's I don't care what you say, he is playing straight up well. And Tony Minera too, like I can't stand Saturday Night Fever because his character is such a yes, gross pig. Uh, he just early in his career.

35:38 That's just the kind of guy he played. Role was well, it wasn't his first, but it was like his first big one major film. Yeah, his first major film. I gotta be honest, especially in the in the in the scene where they're driving and uh, he's he's there with Nancy Allen. The acting it's not good charisma though, like he just kind of he does pops off the screen. You gotta admit that. But yeah, and I was surprised when he smacked her. Well, yeah, can we what the hell's going on in this scene because they're smacking the ship out of each other. They're they're arguing. Then they're all over each other, like this is crazy. Hey, I mean, she calls him a name.

36:29 He doesn't like it. She does it again. He says, Hey, I told you don't. Please don't call me that like you clar Okay, Well, she's running the show here, and then he gives her a little tap and but then she fires right back at him. I'm like, this is a just just a toxic relationship that's going on here. I can't make I can't make heads or tails of it. It's I think it's a villain villains. Yeah. Nancy Allen is fantastic in this. I mean, it's weird that she doesn't have as have a bigger role because she is. I mean, I know, we look at Carrie's mom as the antagonist for most of the movie, but Chris is, like, you know, Chris Harginson, She's the main mean girl. She's the one that's starting all the ship at school. So that's that scene when they were running in place out there on the field and she just got pissed off and just confronted the coach and said she wasn't going to do it anymore. I love that, Like, oh my gosh, she just stormed off. Well you're not going to problem now whatever. Amber, I know you've got a background in education. Uh when you when when you see a scene like this when the teacher just hauls off and you know, smacks the hell She's very like quick to the draw too, because she smacks Jerry when hysterics. Yeah. And then I love how dated this movie is because when they're then she's in the principal's office discussing what to do with Carrie and smoking, Yeah, I need a cigarette.

38:00 And then you know, smacking the hell out of this student, like in front of all the others, like no consequences. Yeah. Well even after that, after she smacks uh, after she smacks Nancy Allen, who that only riles her up more. She's like, if you don't stop, and I'm gonna put you on the ground. And she says something to the fact that I mean this, this this student's about to get knocked out, and the others are like they're quickly getting in line, like hey, we're we're good, we're good exercise. We just want to go to prolem are you living vicariously through through the gym teacher. When you see a zooon like that, you're like, if only you know well, no, but I never had a student like Nancy Allen's character, like, oh she when she gets smacked, it's so satisfying. I I'm Betty Buckley's side in that moment.

38:50 Oh, you have to be you have to be on Betty Buckley's side. And then listen, I know we I'll try and speed up a little bit here because there's so many great actresses, great actors in this movie. It's such a good cast. You know, we talked about PJ. Souls a minute ago with her Steven Spielberg, she was selling him down the river. But uh, she gets a bigger role in the movie because of Yeah, Dave, you tell us no, I was gonna say, you know, she had this small role that was the only go what for two weeks I think she was going to be on set. But the scene that they're playing volleyball where she goes up and hits as Sissy's basic over the head with her baseball cap. Yeah, you know. Brian Depaula saw it and just like, oh my gosh, we need her around longer. So he made sure she had a bigger role in the movie because of that. Now there's one more PJ Soul's tidbit we gotta discuss, and Dave, I know you have to know it on that Yes, feed it to us, man, I'm going to feed it because because of this movie, she gets the role with Linda I was her glory and Halloween we do, you know, And it's just you know, just speaking of Halloween, did you notice when Carrie was on her way home how much that felt like Halloween? Did you catch that vibe that had a real Halloween vibe to it. Yeah, so I'm wondering if you think Carpenter kind of lifted it a little bit. Yep, I do, especially since he knew about this movie, saw this movie, because he casted PJ Souls because of this movie, I think some of that was

40:22 lifted to Halloween as well. Anyway, Sorry, I didn't mean to go on a side note there, but I just picked that up. Well, let's bring him back to let's bring him back to the mean Girls club. We got we got to mention Eadie mcclerk as Helen. Oh go, Yeah, she looked like she was forty even when she right, she looks like the secretary from Faris Villain. Yeah. Well, as soon as I saw her, because I you know, you forget about her until until you see this movie and you're like, holy shit, it's Grace. Like I I immediately hear ed Rudy going Grace me too. That's the first thing keeping in my mind. They think he's a righteous dude. She has no lines in the movie, and she asked Brian to Palmer. She's like, she starts ad lib and she's like, hey, is this okay, and he's like, yeah, it's okay, you can do that. But I can't.

41:12 I can't not see her in a John role in a John Ues movie. Yeah, like you know, I'm waiting for her, you know, like like maybe the I don't know, wait for Steve Martin to show up and start cursing at her. Yeah, she's on the phone with her aunt, you know. Yeah. Yeah, oh man, she Yeah, it was. It's just weird to see her because she's always been the secretary, she's always been that that age. Yep. And to your point, Amber, she's thirty playing playing a high school student and we just kind of we go with it. Yeah, she's two years older than than the gym teacher.

41:59 But he uh, Betty Buckley, No, Betty Buckley, that's that's weird. You know, I don't know. Casting can be weird sometimes in these movies. I don't think these high schoolers look as old as the high schoolers in Greece. Though completely agree with that. Yes, it must be like the makeup and wardrobe or something, because these guys look a little closer to the mark. Then yep, yep, yeah, I believe that. Oh yeah, well on Grease, Yeah, you guys did Greece on a film at forty five and you're like, yeah, these these uh, these students are having midlight crisis. Is because one guy's losing his hair. He's supposed to be a senior. I don't think. I don't think so, guys.

42:44 Let's take a quick break and when we get back, we'll talk about an underrated moment and words that matter. Gosh, burnership. Can I get delicious Burgers? Where? Can I get fun funerew Burger chef? Where? And now I'm participating Burger chefs. You can buy fun meals, but now come on Halloween, magic meal trays. There's a magic trick in each fun meal. There are ten different magic meal tricks you can collect Burgership. You're incredible Bible. Let's discuss an underrated moment in Carrie. I'm not talking about your favorite scene. I'm not talking about the scene that's in the trailer.

43:30 I'm talking about the scene that uh at the movie's If it's not in the movie, the film's a little bit less, uh Amber. Is there a scene in this movie that that kind of hits you that way? I like the whole section where everybody's getting ready for the problem and they're kind of talking. Did you hear about Tommy and Carrie? And then you get that great scene with Tommy and his friends buying the tuxedos. Yeah, they're just a little idiots. And the one guy's like, I don't know, I don't I feel like ruffles. And I just think that that whole section is just charming, and I just really like it. It's a lighter moment for a film like this, And I think, you know something, you have to kind of raise up to the top of the roller coaster before you go plunging down, and this could be, you know, in a different universe, this could be like the Cinderella story. I like that you know where this could have been, because I always thought it was weird that nobody gave her any shit when they got to the prom. Everybody was just kind of like, she looks nice and didn't really acknowledge it. And so then you stop and think this could have been her Cinderella moment where all of a sudden, you know, she's more confident, she's you know, kind of coming into herself as a young woman, and she's standing up to her mother and kind of releasing herself from all of this, you know, psychological bondage she's been

45:01 in. So in a different story. You know, this is a fairy tale. That's a good way of looking at it. I want to watch it with a Cinderella vibe now, because I think you're onto something like this is this is like Cinderella unleashed, you know, yeah, didn't go her way and she you know, yeah, yeah, man, I like that Amber the Blue Ruffle tucks. We've seen it in the seventies, We've seen Jim Carrey do it in the nineties. Is this was it ever a good look? No? I think it's fun for kids to look back at what their parents wore to prom and go, yeah, you know, my god, what were you thinking? But no, I don't. You know, there's a lot of sixties and seventies style that I love. We were just watching Where's Mary's Baby the other day, and I love like her outfits and that and the way they style the apartment and you know, that late sixties kind of vibe. But no, there is nothing about a blue ruffled Ducks that you can make work on any level. You can't, Dave, Dave, tell me about an underrated moment. So for me, I'm sure, uh Ebert's not gonna agree with me because she wanted to get rid of missus White. But for me, it is when miss White drags carry into the

46:34 kitchen and you know, locks her in the pantry closet for the first time, which is you know where she's crazy horrible, you know, and she's screaming and banging on the door, which I want to make reference this is the same room she takes her mother to try and protect her from the house collapsing. That my underrated moment. I think one thing that's sad about that is that when she finally comes out m hm, her first response is thank you, mama, and she kisses her good night. Like this, this is a this this closet. It's scary, but it's also salvation, I guess. Anyway, Yeah, good scene. I'm gonna go with a there's a scene that takes place of the problem. I'm talking about Carrie's conversation with Ms Collins when Tommy gets up to go get him some punch or whatever.

47:22 It's a heartfelt moment that that I think further paints Miss Collins as a surrogate mother rather than a teacher. It's like she's the mom that Carrie deserved, right, And for me, it's a pivotal moment for Carrie because she's finally beginning to let her guard down and feel accepted. You know, Amber mentioned everyone at the proms like they're not they're not giving her shit, they're not making fun of her. She comes in, she's got this beautiful dress that she made. You know, the other girl, the other guy, you know, his girlfriend's like, Oh, I love your dress. Where'd you get it? Sho I made it? You know, she's got her hair done, she's got her makeup on, she's she's smiling, well, she's showing her face because like the whole movie, she's her hair's in her face. She's always you know, slach and looking down, always slouching. Yeah, so this is kind of like their first chance to see who the real carry is. And I don't know, I love the moment because it's it's like the calm before the storm, Like this is like it's sad because you're like, oh man, this is a this is how it could have went, you know, And it leads me to this question, you know, not that I want to take a soft topic, but in an alternate universe where there's no high school prank, is this you know? And Amber's kind of inspired me to to ask this, does this movie kind of become a Cinderella story in a way? Like could this movie have worked as and not?

48:40 I'm just saying not as a horror movie? Could this? Could this have worked as a drama where Carrie gets her chance to shine and and she lives happily ever after? Would that have worked? Amber? I mean in a you know, there's there's a ton of stories like that, you know, that kind of movies like She's all that and yeah, you know where you know, the girl takes off her glasses and all of a sudden she's beautiful and yeah, everybody realizes she was there all alone, you know, and I think that that's something that everybody aspires to have. That sort of trodden upon, ugly deckling, you know, emerges a swan eventually. So I think in you know, a non Stephen King coming of age story and that and the whole thing hinges on the prank. Yeah, you know, I think she could have still been telekinetic. You know, a lot of the things that she experienced could still have happened. And all hinges on this prank that that Chris and her boyfriend pull that you know, just explodes everything.

49:51 Dave, Let's talk about words that matter. M Is there a do you have a favorite line? Is there a memorable line that you immediately think of when you when you think of the work the movie carry and is it still relevant today? Always still using it in today's pop culture. For me, when I think of this movie, I always think of they're all going to laugh at you. I think that was the most relatable that the mom ever was was showing fear for Carrie. Yeah, you know, but uh, I mean my girlfriends and we always uh throughout the I could see you dirty pillars. I remember that one too. Yeah, Yeah. For me, I think I gotta agree with with Dave. It's definitely, uh, they're all gonna laugh at you. It's it's it works on two different different platforms. For me, it's a taunt. You know, when she's when she snaps at the prom and she's seeing everyone laugh at her, even though you know, like people that aren't laughing, she just sees them laughing.

51:12 Right, So I feel it's a taunt. And then Amber definitely has is onto something there where it is it's a it's a protective thing, you know, it's a she's she's she's saying it out of love, out of protection. But even though it's not the best, the best way of doing it, I guess well, let's take let's take one more break and uh we come back. We'll talk prequel sequel remake. All right, you both are quite experienced at this question because it has been asked many, many times on our limited series nineteen eighty six. Amber continues to answer it on our Patreon for the lost episodes of nineteen eighty six. So let's talk prequel sequel remake for Carrie, Dave, I'm looking at you first. This movie's been remade once was that about seven years ago, five years ago, something like that.

52:12 Twenty thirteen was it twenty thirteen? Okay? Really wasn't a fan of the remake. You know what I noticed, David, and I wonder if you'll agree. I just watched it the other day. I'd never seen it, and it's the exact same story, like except for time and place and actors. Nothing's changed. And I feel like it's the difference between a good director making a movie and an artist making a movie. Ah yeah, okay, because what Brian de Palma brings to this movie is just unparalleled. Correct, completely agree. Yeah, And I didn't think of it that way, so you know, that is a valid point. So for me, and they've tried the sequel thing for I'm gonna say, leave it alone, Jeff.

53:04 I don't want to remake. I don't want a sequel. I like some movies just to be left alone as they are, and I think that this one is where it needs to be. You know, I don't care for that. That is, you don't care for that. You've used it before. But uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna look away from you now. I'm gonna look at Amber and I'm gonna ask Amber Amber prequel sequel remake, what are you gonna do with the carry franchise? Well, I did like what Dave said. Remember, however, I was thinking about it.

53:45 There's no real interest in a prequel. You know, everybody's dead at the end, so we don't need a sequel. So I was thinking remake, and I couldn't think of anybody that I would cast. But what I did think was I am a huge fan of the found footage kind of movie, like give it to me, The Blair Witch Project, paranormal activity, like I love it. So I think it would be interesting to see through like kind of like the book was, different interviews and newspaper clippings and things like that. I think it'd be interesting to see cell phone footage of the bullying and you know, somebody's home movie of getting ready for prom, and you know people's cell phone journals of what happened at prom and CCTV footage and I don't know, I think that'd be interesting. Okay, So Dave, so I asked. I asked Dave for prequel sequel remake. He says, no choice, he doesn't market any box, and Amberg goes all Scott hoffin with us. She doesn't give us a prequel sequel. She's going sidequel if that's if that's such a thing. She's like, I want to see the found footage, the aftermath of the of the town. Okay, I but I like that, Amber, I like that. You know I like it too, Now, Amber said Dave. Amber says, there's no interest in a prequel. I'm going to try to win her over because we know we've

55:16 had the sequel, The Rage Carrie two, We've had the remake with Chloya Grace Moritz, there's been a Broadway musical. We've we've kind of mentioned Betty Buckley as the tim teacher. In the Broadway musical, Betty Buckley played the role of Carrie's mother. How about that? Oh but here, here's my pitch. It's a prequel that tells the sordid story of Carrie's mother, Margaret White, and the mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths of her father and her husband, Ralph. Maggie's refusal to acknowledge the strange power inside of her leads to her refusal to accept respond ability for her actions, which drives her deep into this religious fanaticism that ultimately consumes her life. We all know who Margaret White is, but now it's time to meet Maggie starring Jennifer Lawrence rated ar.

56:16 Yeah, he won me over. That would be good. Yeah, the whole, the whole, the whole idea is that this this power. I never thought about her having it. Yeah, it was passed down from the mother. Okay, and Amber. We know from the book and a couple couple notes or a couple of lines in the movie, we know that the that Carrie's dad, Ralph was this. He was a scumbag, you know, he kind of forced himself on her. I like the idea that Maggie like has this psychotic break and renounces the power by just going deep into religion and denying herself that power. So when she sees her daughter have it, you know, well that's interesting because that's how Carrie comes to discover what it is she has. Is first she's looking at miracles and is this a miracle that I'm experiencing And that leads her through the card catalog to yeah, you know the science of miracles and telekinesis so, and why he would have gone the other way? Yes, which goes to the voice show why she had no choice but to try to kill her daughter at the end. Yes, that would add so much more to that ending as well. Interesting Jeff, Yeah, Maggie, that's the prequel to Carrie that I want to see at least. So all right, all right, well, thank you, all right, my job is done. Out of four possible stars, David Burns,

57:52 what are you going to rate Carrie, I'm giving it a four? Four all right? Perfose or Amber? Yep? Same four? Same? Okay, I'm gonna be a little harsher. I guess I was going three and a half stars, but I will say I think it's one of the best adaptations of a Stephen King novel, if not the best. Agreed, Well, I don't agree with that, but it is one of the best maybe one. Yeah, Amber, you shot from the hit there with. I don't agree with it's the best. You have the best King. You know what, that might be the perfect adaptation because I read the book, I've seen the movie Everybody Loves Everybody Loves stand By Me, and those are great stories, very sentimental, very of their moment, But Misery captures the master of horror. Yeah, you're absolutely right, I can't argue with that.

58:52 All right, Well, before this gymnasium burns down, let's talk about let's talk about tomorrow. Amber. What is happening over on Docking Base seventy seven. I am joining Dayton and my dearest friend Robert and my son Liam, and we were talking about our top seven favorite childhood characters. Nice, So the ones that inspired us, the ones that you know, kind of developed who we are and that stick with us to this day. Okay, so it's the top seven. Can you I don't know if I don't know if Dayton will find you for this, but can you give us one of your picks? Is going to mine? Well, can you give us one of yours? Well, it will be no surprise to anybody who has listened to the Docking Bay Alien episode that Ripley is on my list. Okay, a great episode. Anyway. You guys did that with the All Eighties Movies podcast, Jill and Jason. Those guys are fantastic. They are amazing.

59:51 Yeah, all right, well, Dave, speaking of amazing, what is going on? I understand you guys have a special guest for our limited Star Trek series Drawn into Lower Decks tomorrow we sure do. It's our episode nine. We're talking about the episode of the Interfight, but along with us is the director of the inter Fight, Brandon Williams, joining us to talk way that's right. That is gonna be a good question. Nice can't wait for the listeners to hear it well. Listeners, tune in tomorrow to both shows because we've got some great stuff coming at you. As always, we thank you. Carrie is currently streaming on Max Listeners. You can let us know what you think of Carrie at a film bypodcast dot com or on social media.

1:00:46 Next time. On nineteen seventy six, we'll get dirty with Clint Eastwood's iconic San Francisco inspector Harry Callahan when we give you the skinny on the Enforcer. Thanks for lending your ears. Will catch you on the flip side.