1976 - Rocky

0:00 Rocky Balboa. Never heard of him. Look it's the name man, the Italian Stallion. He's a south Ball. I don't want you messing around with South Ball, Slady do everything bass I was for nothing. I've dropped me three. Apollo Creed meets the Italian Stallion sounds like a damn monster movie. Hello everybody, and welcome back to nineteen seventy six, where we look at the years most iconic films. Today happens to be my birthday, and coincidently, we're discussing my all time favorite film, Rocky. I am joined today by Warner Brothers animation director Andy tom Andy. Welcome back to the show.

0:58 Thanks for having me, and happy birth day man. Thank you man. I appreciate that. Last time we we I know, we told our listeners a little bit about what an animation director does. We talked about some of the projects you've been involved with. This time. I would love to tell people kind of like how how you and I met, because it wasn't it wasn't through film, It wasn't through the movies. That's just something that we happened to find out we had a kinship for. Uh. Can we talk about the mustache Man? Video on YouTube. Yeah yeah, I uh so, I did the very first Tough Mutter. It's a it's an obstacle course mud run, right, and you know, I started up and when I turned forty, I ran my first marathon. I was never really a runner, per se. I was always an athlete, baseball and wrestling stuff like that. But then, uh I decided to try running. I did a marathon when I was forty, and then I think when I was like forty five, we heard about tough Mutters. Uh well, Tough Mutter was becoming a thing, and it was in a mais Pennsylvania, and didn't know what to expect, and a friend front of me. We did the first one and I was I always hooked, you know. It was just a little edgier than a run, which I liked, and I made a like, I don't know what you'd call it, a fan film, right, So it was just me training, which I normally do. I've always been a gym rat, you know, ever since I could, you know, like since I was like sixteen, I was always the guy in the gym.

2:20 And so I filmed like and I'm I'm also like a well an animation director and at that time. When I made the video, I was already I've been directing an animation for quite a while, so I knew how to tell a story. And I pretty much told the story through a YouTube video, which was the first one I ever made, and I made a training video for Tough Mutter. So it was me just running around doing all kinds of I guess what you'd call training put basketball, push ups and stuff like that, and then uh it Tough Mutter. I sent it to Tough Mutter, just as like a love letter, not thinking i'd get any views or anything, just like, hey, tough Matter, check this out. And they put it on their website and it went viral. I think it's up to now, it's like two and a half million views to two point seven maybe, I don't know, but it was really exciting. I'd never known anything about viral videos before. I was never a social media guy at all.

3:20 Really. Yeah, and so but what I don't I know what inspired quite a few people, which was wonderful, and I hope it inspired you, Jeff two. I mean, but I don't. I didn't do it as a as a piece to glorify myself more as to motivate, you know, look at it. I'm forty five, you know, and you can still maintain an active lifestyle. So anyways, that I think that message came through with my ability to edit properly. Like I said, I'm not like this super athlete. I was more of like a video editor. So that's what I give the credit to. And yeah, I'm sorry for the long winded explanation, but that's pretty much it. I made a viral video and then I got a bunch of online friends like yourself and and some other great people I met online through it. Yeah, incredibly inspirational, incredibly motivating. I remember it was it's twenty eleven. Uh. Me and a couple of buddies had discovered the obstacle course racing, you know, like the different events we signed up for for Warrior Dash, a little five K one, a little fun when we we crush it and then we think, okay, let's let's do something big, let's do something. Let's let's let's up the stakes.

4:34 And we find your video on YouTube and this whole tough Mutter training and we look at a tough mutter we signed up and we were blown away because watching it, I'm like this guy, he's like an action hero. Yeah, the stuff you're doing, we you know, embarrassingly, I gotta tell you, like we immediately were starting to like duplicate and like imitate, you know. I was like, well, the Mustache Man, he check out. He this is how he starts his run, and this is this is what he's doing. I don't know if these sticks are he's using, but I'm gonna look up and I'm gonna find out, because the bottom line is, uh, you've got some extensive experience, uh in fighting as well. Right, Yeah, Yeah, First off, I gotta say, I gotta give a lot of the training that's in the video. That's I got a credit Obi Rountree. He's the he's the big guy in the Steeler if you watch the video, he's a big guy in the Steelers Jersey. He's a he was a madman when it comes to to he making innovative you know, exercises.

5:34 So he was great. But all the martial arts, that's all stuff that I've been doing long before Mustache Man. I'm a big martial arts scotch. I still trained quite a lot, but yeah, I'm certified under Dana Assanto. He's a he's a Bruce Lee's main student. So uh and that's another whole can of worms I could open. But you know, but yeah, I'm a big I used to I used to run a martial arts school. So yeah, that's why this movie kind of fits into I mean, my love of film and editing and you know fighting. So it's it's it's like perfect storm of awesomeness for me. Well, let's let's get into the background of this film. And I know this is these are some of the stories that people have heard probably a thousand times, so we won't stay too much on him. But for anyone that that maybe doesn't know how Rocky comes to comes to be, it's after seeing stallone in The Lords of Flatbush, producers Irwin Winkler and Robert Charthoff agreed to meeting with Sly. Now they don't have anything for him. You know, he's there on an acting gig.

6:40 They don't really have anything for him. He's walking out the door. He counters with the fact that he has a screenplay, which is Paradise Sally. Now they love it. The trouble is it's already optioned. So they tell Sly, you know, hey, come back if you have any new ideas. Now, he goes home, knowing the door is wide open for this incredible opportunity. He recalls watching the Chuck Webner Muhammad Ali fight on March twenty fourth, nineteen seventy five at Richfield Coliseum and Richfield, Ohio, which ain't too far away from where I'm living now. He's inspired and he begins writing that night. So six weeks later he's back with Rocky in his hands. He's got one hundred and six dollars in his bank account. They offer him thirty five thousand dollars and he turns them down. Andy Stallone won't sell it unless he stars in it, so they go along with that on the condition that he also agrees to work for scale and receive zero money for the script.

7:39 I mean a deal like this, dude, deals like this, they're not going to happen in today's Hollywood, right, and especially when you're you're so so deep and hot that you have to sell your dog oh kiss. I mean yeah, the guy was in no position to negotiate, So, yeah, it is. It is amazing that this was even we're even to see this movie made, but yeah, uh, he writes the draft in three days. It goes through nine rewrites, and I'm gonna I'm gonna say thankfully because originally it's a dark story. Do you know, do you know uh the details of the original Rocky script, Andy, I do, and I'm kind of glad we didn't see that version. But yeah, the listeners in yeah Mick, I well, I some some points. I know is that Mick was a raging racist. Uh so that's kind of nice that they didn't add that. Yeah, sympathetic, I know, I know. I think it was supposed to end with Rocky throwing the fight, right and then saying like the attitude of like I just don't want to be a pro boxer anymore, which I don't. Look that might have been okay, I don't know, you know, he's like, just walk out of the ring.

8:46 I'm done. But definitely the racism thing that that wouldn't have been nice to see. Yeah, that's all. Those are the only points I really remember. I think that's that's the big ones right there. You know, you and I were both fans of the gritty seventies cinema storytelling. My only thought is that maybe he initially has Mickey more unlikable, and this ends on a on a more negative ending because of the times, right, like you know, and this is the this is the hip thing. You know. We we've talked like on we we talked about assaults on pre six thirteen where you're your hero is a is a convicted murderer. Right, yeah, yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad it went down the way it was. And and talk about the gritty seventies. Yeah, I think this movie is, this franchise is a prime example of the transition from the gritty seventies to the cornball eighties. Like you know, like if you get Rocky two, Rocky three, Rocky four, I mean, it just gets cornier and cornier. You know, he has a freak house and it's just silly, stilly. But this first, Like, here's what I like to propose to in critique of this movie. I'd like to ignore that Rocky two through five don't even exist.

10:00 So just look at this in a vacuum and it's it's it's brilliant. It's one of the I'm like you, I think this is one of the best movies ever made. And I don't say that she's something. I mean, I'm I really seriously think that every frame is virtually perfect in this movie. But if you just like I said, if you just ignore even the sequel, even Rocket two, it doesn't exist. It's it's perfect. Winkler and chart Off take the movie to United Artists and they say, hey, this is a two million dollar budget. Let's talk to Robert Redford or Ryan O'Neill. If they're not interested, call up Burt Reynolds or Nick Nolty. Let's even look at James Cohn. You know, they hear about the stipulation with Sly starring, they immediately drop the budget to one million, and they hold Winkler and chart Off libel if the picture goes over budget, and it does only by one hundred thousand dollars. But these two guys end up mortgaging their houses to pay for for Rocky, which I think, man, could you imagine And if they were like, yes, sorry, sorry, kid, we can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really a testament to those guys is that they believed in the in the in the project, which was is great. Yeah. I heard that same story too, and it's incredible when you keep hearing the names that were considered for the for the roles, you know, with Mick and with uh Talia Shire and all the people they were planning or you know, in talks with I mean Susan Sarandon and Harvey Keitel, and I was just like Jesus, let's see Hollywood,

11:31 who's who of you know, who was popular? Yeah, let's let's jump into that, because I I had I had something. But then, uh, I wanted to get into this with you. Uh, you know talking about talking about people that could have been a contender, right, So we talked about who who they were looking at for Rocky. But uh, let's start off with the director. Initially, director John Borman, who directed Deliverance and would go on to do ex Caliber. He passes on this project, right right right? Bad decision. Interesting. I mean I don't think he's he's that far off from Mats. I don't know that could have been interesting seeing that. But yeah, if he if he turned it down, what are you gonna do? So well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what you do. I'll tell you what he did. He ended up doing Exorcist to the Heretic. Yeah, that's that's a bad call, John, Uh tell you this one. I was really fascinated by Tall You Shire's husband, David Shire, is the original composer, and he has to turn it down so he can finish work on a different movie from nineteen seventy six because he's composing all the President's men. Oh I did not know that, all right, crazy? I like he still worked in too. I dig that because I think the last movie he did that I was. I loved his his music was David Venture's Zodiac. Oh yeah, yeah, great, great score. Speaking Italia, you mentioned Susans Randon. Yeah, yeah, I

13:01 think she was one. I can't it was more than one, obviously, but there was two big ones. Actually. Susan Sarandon auditions and she's told she's too pretty to play Adrian, which I guess if you're going to get rejected, that's probably probably the best news to take, right. They're also looking at Share. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Do you think Share could have pulled this off? No? I do know. It's funny when you when you hear the names and you're immediately we at least or me, I just have this knee jerk like, thank god that didn't happen, Like, because like I said, I think everyone's so perfect in this You know and tell you it's just she's incredible of it. Yeah, she's got a couple of beats where her acting is a little stiff, but I mean her look and the way she just you know, looks at the ground in the first half of the movie, you know, and it's just beautiful.

13:54 So I don't know, Yeah, maybe somebody else could have slipped in that role, but shared did you know she does have some good acting chops. Yeah, I can't imagine it. I think it's cool, uh, you know when you you know, because obviously Adrian's such a a sheltered, shy, introverted character. A lot of her physicality in the movie, though, came from the fact that she's really sick with the flu the whole time they're shooting this thing. You know. Even even that clumsy first kiss, Yeah, that was it. I guess that's the scenes where she had the flu and she didn't want to give get sly sick. You know. Yeah, but even if you watch, you know, because I just rewatch this because we're gonna do this, I trust me, And I think I was telling you before we started recording, is that this is the most I've watched this movie so many times that I actually watch it and just look at peripheral things that I may have missed, you know, so I won't watch the main action, and I'll watch the characters what they're doing in the background, or even cars. I'll look at cars and s anyway. Uh but I noticed if you watch the beginning when he when he the first couple of sequences that feature Talia Shire, she's not even she You don't even get a good look at her face, like she's costly starting at the ground, or she's behind like some pet food. It's it's really cool. It's like you could her shyness is just crushing. Boy, it's brutal, but yeah, it's it's wonderful. They're looking at a Stallone is looking at Harvey Kitel to play POULI

15:26 maybe maybe he's not. Yeah, Bert young though, just he crushed this role. I think who who? Who looks exactly like my uncle Frank. Oh yeah, And it's funny. My father told me that when I thought it. Who was also a war hero? He was captured in the Battle of Bulge. Oh wow, yeah, my uncle Frank. But he he's my dad's father's brother, so he's like but yeah, he he grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. I used to see him quite a bit and he even talked like PAULI, you know, so it's funny, you know I And honestly, I think it's good that we get Burt Young here because he was, in fact a boxer. Yeah. Yeah, so he goes, uh, he wins thirty two out of thirty four bouts while serving in the Marine Corps. He goes seventeen and ozer as a pro as a pro fighter. Bert Young is seventeen and oh you know who you know he's got in his corner managing him. No, you're gonna, You're gonna this will blow your mind. None other than legendary Custyamato. Oh yeah, wow, like that Mike Tyson's manager. Yeah, it's managing Burt Young.

16:44 Yeah, unbelievable. Apparently a lot of the chore the fight choreography, you know, Stallone is writing it and then he's sharing it with Bert Young saying hey, what do you think? And Young's making suggestions, He's calling out things that work, things that don't work. So right, yeah, I heard they he showed them. I guess I'm sure you know this that they were working out the fights and it just wasn't working. I guess they lost a couple of stunt choreographers. They're just not feeling it. And then they Stallone went and wrote it script form, like a thirty two page written out, you know, action for the for the entire fight sequence, and Bert Young gave some notes. Yeah, I'll tell you the the script work that I've done. I couldn't imagine if someone said, hey, I need you to write a thirty two page fight sequence. Cous me I storyboard, so I you know, when I get an action sequence in an action show, like let's say I'm on Avengers or Avengers Assemble or Spider Man cartoon, and you get you'll get maybe two lines like Spider Man grabs a helicopter and flies through the city. Well that's just that's two sentences, but that can take you know, that's a big thing to to animal his storyboard and anime.

18:02 So you know, for a fight scene to be I you know, I could imagine the original script just says they're getting a round. One happens and they throw it, they exchange blows. But I'm sure that's the original script. And then for slide to just draw that out, it must be. It must have been insane. Yeah, let's talk about throwing some blows. Uh looking at Apollo Creed. Originally professional heavyweight fighter Kenny Norton is offered the role, but because he's weighing in at two thirty, he is way too big. Uh you know, it looks like a giant next to stallone. So they got to pass on him. This one. I read this, couldn't believe it. Roger E. Moseley h t TC of Magnum p I.

18:51 Oh, okay, he auditions, but he withdrawals due to uh what he says are creative differences. Oh and know that. Wow, Yeah, I didn't know I knew about Ken Norton. Who I have to say, And let me just add that I was ten years old and seventy six, and uh, you know, the world got rocky fever. But also at the time, you know, Muhammad Ali was the big guy. But when I was a kid, I didn't like Muhammad Ali. I didn't like his his boisterousness. You know. Now, oh my god, he's the greatest. I love him. And I looked back I was being silly. But when Ken Norton broke his jaw during they fought, and Ken Norton broke his jaw. Ken Norton immediately became my favorite fighter, you know, said because I guess Ali was drawn during you know how he talks how he does yeh, and during the fight and Norton caught him. I was like, all right, I'm immediately a Ken Norton fan. So well, it probably would have applauded that back then. Yeah, and you know, we have to remember, Apollo Creedy basically is Muhammad Ali, right, I mean, that's that's the inspiration for the character. And Rocky is Chuck Webner. But yeah, you know, talking about Apollo. A couple months ago, I had the opportunity to uh to meet Carl Weathers. We talked, We talked briefly,

20:22 you know, a little photo op right now. If they wanted to put him in the ring in a movie, he is this guy Andy still physically he is a physical specimen. Still looks like he could play Apollo Creed if they started started production on on a movie tomorrow with him. He's phenomenal shape. He absolutely is in phenomenal shape. What might have a good friend. He's a he was a stuntman on The Mandalorian and he's worked closely with Carl Weathers and you know, I asked the bottom. Yeah, he's great, he says, he's all older. You know, he's definitely up in years now. Yeah, what is he like? He's the early seventies I think, but very still very imposing. Uh. We we were gonna do it. We were doing this photo and uh, I stopped and I said, you know, you know, we got to do the predator handshake right and he he just started He's just his head. He got to do his head back started laugh. He's like, yeah, I figured, so, you know, fun fun photo I got with Carl Weathers where we were doing the Dylan Dutch handshake. But great, that's great. Talk about a couple of people, uh, you know, moving up in the ranks in this movie. I noticed two people in this movie. And this was actually the last time I watched. I was like, wait, is that is that?

21:42 Who I think it is. I don't know if you caught these two guys. But Apollo's bodyguard is played by a very young Michael Dorn. Yeah. This is first first roll yeah made film film debut. For those that don't know the name, Michael Dorn, Star Trek fans are definitely gonna know him because he is the man, uh playing wharf on Star Trek the Next Generation and all the movies and then definitely a fun one for me, Andy, Can you tell me who the bum is that Rocky picks up and carries inside the bar? No, I can't. If if I wouldn't, there's a there's a shot. So he kind of picks this guy up off the street and he puts him in a booth with someone else and he kind of looks up. If I didn't see the guy look up, I wouldn't.

22:30 I never would have known this. But that is in fact Trauma Entertainment co founder Lloyd Kaufman. Lloyd what is what has Lloyd Kaufman doing on the streets affiliate in nineteen seventy six? I don't know, but just watching just watching it, Uh, last last time I watched this, I picked up on that and I'm like, you know what, if that's Kaufman, he'll get it. He'll get some kind of credit. And sure enough, not only is he credited as as a bum, he's also credited as a pre production superviow e on the movie Oh kidding, this is this is way before Trauma, you know, before the toxic Avenger is out there saving the day. So I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, I have to you know, it's crazy. I just watched I have to. I have to go back and look at that then. Yeah, because he's just there's only two shots with him from the ext year and then the interior when he drops him in the booth. Cool. Well, I'll tell you what. Let's take a let's take a quick break, and when Andy and I return, we're gonna we're gonna get into Rocky's training. Frank O'Hara's Pittsburgh Steelers. The harder to competition, the harder you have to play. Garry Hansen, t WA is up against more competition than any other airline, So to get you to fly with us, we have to be a better Rick Barry Golden State Warriors. What makes a winning team Competitive spirit? Captain Davis t WA.

23:52 This team, they've got a lot of competitive spirit. That's why t WA is out to be the best on time their line in the business. Nolan Ryan California Angels. Keep coming up with something new. That's how you stay here. Laura Kulak t WA Only TWA gives you your choice of movie plus something new sports films on all movie plays on top the t WA being the best isn't everything, it's the only thing. We are back before we talk training, I do want to point out, and this will kind of segue into the training, I'm sure, but Rockies run up the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum is one of the most famous scenes in movie history. Right on our Marathon Man episode for nineteen seventy six, we talked about Garrett Brown, who invented the steadicam. Well, Brown is from Philadelphia and he shot footage of his girlfriend running those same steps. So for those people that don't know, his plan was to you is that footage to show what his steadycam can do for potential buyers. And point of fact, he sells the steadicam on his first day in LA and it's several months later. Uh. Director John g alott aveltson who who gave us? Who gives us Rocky? He sees the test footage, thinks it's perfect for Rocky, and he hires Brown and the stetycam to recreate it for the film. Absolutely love that. Uh

25:27 yeah, this is the third movie I believe that a steadicam was ever used. Yeah, yeah, marathon Man's the first one, and then there's one other one Born to Run or something. I can't remember. Brown's not the only guy from Philly though, right, Andy, you're from Philly. You were from Philly? Well yeah, I mean, you know, like, give me, give me an hour drive, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you. A while back, you and I were talking. He told me this great story about Rockies run through the neighborhood. You care to share that with the listeners? Yeah? Yeah, it was funny because so, let's see, I would do a lot of endurance events and I'm always looking for another challenge. You know, this is years ago, and I found online that somebody, it was a blogger that from Philly that mapped out Rockies run in the movie. So if he he has a house that's in South Philly, they figured that address out and then they figured where he ran, you know, or he runs through the he runs along the docks, and he runs along the Italian market there and then he ultimately ends up at the steps of the Art Museum. And it turned out that if he did that, actually did that run, it would be like thirty six points some odd miles. It's outrageous. You know. So, so this person paired it down. I don't know if it was the same person, but they paired it down. That run, they mapped it out through the city

26:59 and made it into an ultra marathon, which was ultra marathons are or anything over twenty six point two miles and miles, which is, you know, the average marathons. So if you go above it, if you go thirty miles, you're an ultra marathon. Or and I've done we used to do quite a bit of ultra marathons, me and my friends. And so they mapped out the Rocky Run, which ended up being a fifty k which is what is that thirty one point something? I don't know, but anyway, and and it was for the thing with ultra marathons is they're not really sanctioned. They're kind of they're not illegal, but you know, you don't have the cheering fans and the aid stations. So it was it was a self supported run. It was advertised just online and come out and run. You know, there's no charge. You just we all meet, were given a time and a date to meet, and it was in November I think it was twenty sixteen. I might be wrong on that. But we met at Rocky's house down in South Philly. Can't remember when we all and it was funny because we everyone decided to dress in the gray sweats and they handed out red head bands and I was gonna do it running Chucks, but you know, you know, running thirty some odd miles and Chucks is a little brutal on your feet. But well, you're running, you're running barefoot in the tough mutter training and still so yeah, no, and I still do well.

28:29 I used sneakers. I always say it's protection, uh, not correction, So I wear sneakers, but they're zero drop zero, they're basically barefoot sneakers. So I still do that and to this day. But yeah, I did wear and I obviously wore minimal, minimal shoes for that run. But anyway, yeah, it was fun. And you're giving a map and they were I think they were probably maybe thirty to fifty of us, uh, and the guy with a bullhorn just said, okay, go and we each got a little map and we ran through the city. We got pictures and there were people driving along the road, you know, Broad Street in Philly with the Rocky music cranking out of the sides of the vehicles and stuff. It was fun. It was It was a blast, and it was nice because you know, you're you're running along, like I said, broad Street and if you want a gatorade or you want a pretzel saw pretzel in the street, you grab it, you eat it, and you just keep running. Uh And it ended at the Art Museum steps. So I mean it took you know, it took me quite a while. I'm not a fast runner. When you run ultras, you're not running at its eight minute pace. You're running at like twelve fourteen minute brisk walk. Uh. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Man. I couldn't imagine what a treat for people the neighborhood to see like forty forty to fifty people dressed like Rocky and running the exact route that that had to be. That had to be a wild scene. Yeah, I don't know if I told you, well, you know, like you you separate like so, so if it's like that few amount of people, there's some people that are a lot fast, there's some people a lot slower, and you separate over that

30:00 large amount of time. So you'll go if you stood up one street corner. You'd see one guy dressed as Rocky go by, and then maybe five minutes go by and you see another guy dressed as Rocky, and and that happened. One guy he's like, hey, man, let me ask you. You go, what the hell is going on? Like he goes, I'm seeing all these people running his Rocky down this road. Now it's a run. Man, It's it's it's a Rocky run. That's wild. Is it is this something that they did? It become like an annual thing, you know, or you know what I think what happened. I think it might have been picked up but by the news. But like I said, it's it's not sanctioned. It's not really I'm not gonna say it's illegal, but it's it's the Kumata of marathons. Right, Okay, I'll take that.

30:45 But the thing is, they made a sterile version of it like shortly after that one because they saw that it was successful. So they made like a Rocky five k that started in I don't know, Odd Street, and and it just wasn't you know, and they were they had to get all the legal oh, get people to end on the on the art museum steps. So they didn't actually end there, you know, it was they did it by the book, whereas we didn't. Yeah, and I don't know of anybody that did it. I didn't do it. I wasn't going to do a Rocky five k. So anyway, Yeah, there's a lot of fun running through the city. And it was crazy because you're running along you know, you run along the docks. But it's it's uh, it's just slightly different now, you know, from seventy six and then this was twenty sixteen, like you know Rockies, he's running along the train tracks and then now those are all like blocked off. You can't even get back there.

31:38 You know. The Italian market was a little more cleaned up, but yeah, it's all still there. It was all still there. Wow, And I know all right Dad. Also, had you've heard of go rock events? Yeah? Absolutely, Special Forces run you pretty much carry a bunch of weight on your backpack and they usually run twelve hours. So I did. Also did a go Rock that began right there on the Art Museum steps and we had to we had to do a bear crawl up the steps and then and this is starting at I think one in the morning or two. You know, midnight or something. We start and we had to bear crawl up the steps and crawl through the water and a fountain or you know, it's freezing cold. And so that was another thing we did there, and durance type thing right there. Rocky Rocky Zone. Man. You know, all these scenes with Rocky running through Philadelphia, they're shot with no permits, no equipment, and no extras. Basically, it's it's like the run that you're describing to us. But all the reactions from people are authentic, you know, right down to the guy in the food market tossing him an orange.

32:45 This is this is a guy that had no idea they're shooting a movie and he's just tossing an orange to a guy he thought was exercising, and they kept it in. I love that about this movie. I didn't get any orange, did you. Did you hear that he tore a hamstring or something during one of those runs and they had to wheelbarrel him to a hospital. What, no, this is? This is? I did not know. Yeah, apparently one of the runs, you know, he's and he tore something, put him in a wheel barrel and set him to the hospital. I might be misremembering is. But I'm pretty sure that well I know because I because I know him in uh, whether as they both sustain injuries in the ring, like you know, legitimately. The funny thing there is that in the movie Creed gets his his ribs busted up pretty bad, and uh it's actually stallone that that had that happened to him in real life. And then Rocky. You know Creed, Creed breaks Rocky's nose in the movie in the fight, and that kind of happened to Carl Weather. So but but him him tearing a ligament or or you know something like that, that that's a you know, you can't you can't run, would you say, thirty thirty something miles, you can't. You can't do that in chucks and expect to Uh yeah, you know that you're not gonna get a link a bit torn Rocky. So it goes without saying, uh, you know, we know that it won the Academy Ward for Best Picture, but it's the first

34:16 sports movie to win Best Picture. I love that about this movie. Yeah, I can't think of I mean, on the Waterfront, I don't know if that one and do you consider that a sports movie? Boxing? But I'm trying to think of other sports movies before that. You know, what was it the Gipper? You know, yeah, Reagan was New Brot Me, New Rotteny, all American. Yeah, but those weren't anywhere near quality of this, you know, nah Andy, let's talk about an underrated moment. It's not the it's not your favorite scene, it's not the scene that you're going to see in the trailer. But without it, the film is less. I can think of like at least three scenes that would qualify for this. But what do you what do you got for an underrated moment in Rocky So my I have, I have quite a few, and I'm sure I've probably missed a few, and they're not They're not these entire scenes per se, but it's little things that Stallone did to cement this character personality.

35:20 Where Like, so when he first invites Adrian into his into his apartment, you know, beautiful scene, oh one thing? Yeah almost is another one that just popped out at me. He reaches the screen is broken in his door, and he reaches over and he unlatches the door, right he unlocks it, which is such a weird detail. I'm sure that's not in the script. It can't be. That'd be the silliest thing to write in the script. But it really just it just really pushes his character. And oh, this guy's you know, he just deals with the way life is thrown at him and okay, I'll still lock the door even though he can easily break in kind of thing. I don't know. I thought that was just a little under It is beautiful little moment. And then when he gets inside the bill, he gets inside the room his apartment, and it's dark and he hits the light switch and he goes click, like you're gonna miss it if you blink. It's nothing. But it's just him. Like I said, it's just his character. And then there's one more more. Here's another little moment is that he gets the car. Some guy comes by mix Jim and gives him the card and says, you know, this guy, the promoter wants to talk to you. Go see him, you know. Mick says, what the hell I know he wants, you know, So he takes the card, the business card. He goes to the office of the lady. She's a secretary. He's like, yeah, I'm here to see mister Solan. So Fletcher, I think his name was Fletcher, Yeah, the fight promoter. Yeah, And she goes, oh you're Rocky Baba.

36:49 Sure, she takes his card, and then he's ready, he'll see you now. And then Rocky says, hey, can I have that, Like he wanted that card back? Yeah. So beautiful in like it's like his souvenir of being like just rubbing a gup against this greatness that he's about to walk through the door and meet you know what I mean, like he you could miss it, you know, So I think those little moments are underrated. If you're you know, if you're looking at the movie, you could miss him and you're not going to notice him. But it just drives it home that, oh, this guy's he really is that underdog that just doesn't you know, he's just trying to get through this world. It's it's beautiful, it is. It's that scene in particular is very beautiful because Rocky throughout this entire movie breaks your heart without even you know, and it's it's a moment like that where you're right, it's a big deal to have that that business card. And even when he's in Fletcher's office. One thing I always pick up on is that he is looking straightforward, you know, kind of like he's in you know, the principal's office. He doesn't want to you know, he doesn't want to be what am I wanting to say? He's not trying to sell himself outside the fact that he just he assumes that he's there to be a sparring partner. And he even tells the Fletcher He's like, hey, I would never take a cheap shot at the champ. And and just as he's as he's telling like he's kind of presenting himself, watching Fletcher's face and seeing that smile creep creep across it, as he realizes this

38:23 guy has no idea what I'm about to offer him. No, And in these moments, Bill Conti's score really really lets you know when when to feel a certain way about Rocky. Right oh yeah, hell yeah. So so two things on that little meeting with Fletcher where when he asked him, he goes, you know, I want you to I'm offering you a chance to fight the champ. He answers so fast, like he really doesn't think about that. He goes, no, I'm not gonna do it. I don't remember the word. Yeah, absolutely not. He says, no, he doesn't like go WHOA, that's really a great offer. He just like this is his immediate Like, no, I'm not even in his league, right, I think he says that. But and also another thing for those shots, like you said, he's staring straight ahead, he's in a seat and Fletcher is above him, and it's this is storyboarding one on one. Is that when you shoot a person like either a neutral angle, you know, with the horizons neutral, or it's you're shooting down on them, then you're kind of taking away their power. And then if you shoot up at somebody, they're they're overpowering there they look more. And it was mad because if you see Fletcher, it's kind of him down and the shot is kind of going up. But then you see Rocky and it's just kind of neutral, just staring blankly, and it's beautiful. It just shows who has the power, you know, just visually. Any Yeah, I'm sorry, I just want a little no no I love no, not love it man talking about who who has the I'm sorry, and I wanted to go on the sport.

39:53 I want to sorry, I wanted to talk about the score too. Is that you know, uh well, actually let me. So I am. In seventy six, Like I said, the world had Rocky fever, and I was one of them. I was. I was ten years old, little kid. Uh, And I got the Rocky soundtrack. It was a single, you know, thirty three and it came with a forty five inserted, which I've never gotten another album since, you know, I collect vinyl. And it came with the forty five of Gonna Fly Now right in something which was odd. But the if you notice when he's in the room with Adrian and he's he's doing it, pulling a me too moment on her, but he puts the he puts the music on, and that's ast that was what was on. That's on the soundtrack, and it's like a vocal version of Gonna Fly Now. I actually noticed that, you know, because oh yeah, okay, the world is with you. So that is actually the Gonna Fly Now song, but just stripped down and make into like a uh, you know, an R and B ballot. It's kind of odd.

41:06 I'm gonna check that out. Yang. Yeah, yeah, it's you got that song. It's it's up. I mean when I was a kid, I used to listen to it. They even got the Frank Stallona, the tavy back. Yeah that's get back. Yeah, but but but yeah, that's that's really not Bill Conti. I'm really kind of going off, but I but Bill Conti. What I love the most of his scoring in the movie is the little I don't know what you call it, an organ or whatever, when like it's the moment. One of the moments is when he yeah, he's like, come on upstairs, you know, he's trying to get Adrian to come upstairs. He's like, no, I gotta go and come on, come on. He pushes the door open and then you just hear that little organ beat he said come on, come on, and it hits it again. It's just really nice. It's not overbearing. And one more thing, I'll tell you what Bill Conti knows what not to do.

42:00 If you watch that whole first first round, there's no scoring at all. It's just sent you know, and there's a dramatic when he throws that uppercut and knocks Apollo down. That's probably the most dramatic thing, right, no music, no music whatsoever. And that is beautiful because then it comes on after that, like it comes on like second round. Then the music starts as well. And it's probably the most inspirational music any movie has ever made. You know, so he knows when to shut up and want to really hit it hard. And let me add one more thing. You know, you know that Navy seal David Goggins, Right, yeah, guy, yeah yeah, yeah yeah right, So he's you know, he's a beast.

42:44 And if you ever see him wear headphones. Then when he does does his wrong runs and he does his ultras and stuff like that, he has what he has on a loop is the theme from Rocky the instrument version in the mid rounds, like you know, round eight when that music with the going the distance is what it's called. It's on my playlist too. You gotta have it? Yeah yeah, And he has that on a loop. And look, I when I hear music over and over and over and over and over and over, I get numb to it. Right, It just doesn't apparently that guy can listen to that for hundreds and hundred miles and still get pumped. So it works for people, man, Like I said, it's the most inspirational score. It does. It's you know, I always it's like it's like two and a half minutes of music called Going the Distance, and I always will bury that into my play like thirty forty minutes into my playlist, so that when I go run, I go work out, and I'm I'm at that point of like I'm tired, I'm ready to be done. When it comes on, it's it's kind of like a shot of life, like you have to keep going. Then back to underrated moments.

43:51 We got a couple I want to go over first one we got to talk about. Yeah, we've got a we've got an amazing fight that we're gearing up for. In the climactic moment, however, it's the argument between Adrian and Polly where she, for the first time kind of asserts her power, stands up to him, has it. They have this big blowout. I don't get married because of you. You can't live by yourself. I put your on you met, you owe me. You're supposed to be good to me. What good I feel? Dirty clothes? I did you, Polly?

44:38 I don't know you nothing, and you made me feel like a loader. I you talk about how you will watch people in the background or set design in the background. So many times watch that scene and just watch stallone in the background just's he's like a small child who is in the room as his parents fight, and he knows that he can't say anything, and he knows he shouldn't do anything. Man, that moment that it's one of the most underrated moments of the movie. And it's one of my favorite moments of the movie. Uh. And that's saying something because you know, we don't have Rocky, we don't have Apollo, and it's just a fight between a brother and a sister and and you could tell it's a long time coming.

45:25 Yeah, And it's intense in that like he's seen it. He's seen him, you know, he saw him throw a turkey out at the door. You know, like he's he sees the craziness of that thing that that family. Like if you watch I watched that too, and I remember that because like he finally Rocky finally stood up and grabbed you know, Paulie and held him down right, and he's just like just stared at him and say one word, which is beautiful, just stared at him, and then he just went over and you know, you want a roommate absolutely, you know. So that's when she decides to move out finally, But even before that Rocky, He's just he doesn't want any conflict, you know. I think he's that guy like kind of like me and kind of like like, I don't I don't like fighting, I don't like arguing, and I kind of avoid it like most men, I think, and he like when they like I said, when he threw the turkey out the window, out the door, he didn't yell at Paully, he didn't do anything. It was only at that moment they finally grabbed PAULI like, like talk about not winning confrontation.

46:27 It's my favorite sequence in the movie is when Mick comes to his apartment and you know, wants the demand be Rocky's manager, and it's so beautifully set that he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to have confrontation with him, really, so he goes into the bathroom and shuts the door. And it's only at that point does Rocky's voice raise and does he get angry. And it's only at the point when Mick is out of the out of the apartment that his voice gets really thunderous. You know, Yeah, but it but I mean, if he was in the same room with him and he were looking at each other, Rocky wouldn't have yelled, you know what I mean. So, yeah, there's a little hint at his personality. You know, it was beautiful one uh one moment I think you actually you and I were talking about this a wall back when we were doing Assault on Precinct thirteen.

47:19 We're talking about Tony Burton, who is in that movie, and we kind of talked about how he's more he's known as as Duke, you know, Apolo's trainer. Uh. The moment where he's watching TV. You know, he's you know, he's they're they're they're all about business, right, they are dressed well, he's sitting there, he's got a shirt undone, he's just watching TV. Why was this done? You know? I wonder that what was he doing before that? Because everyone, you know, you can see apollows he's a three piece. Yeah, Whereas for some reason like a polish, a little choice. I don't understand why his shirt was open, like yeah, like Apollo is basically conducting a business meeting in the back ground and and Burton is just you know, he's lounging, right, and it is It's it's weird, like why you know, because I don't you know it doesn't make sense because like you don't under like where are you know, are they in a hotel room? Are they at Apollo's house? You just don't know, but he I don't care where you're at. It just seemed like an odd choice, but but it makes it authentic. It makes me like the guy and him just watching Rocky on the news segment where he's just obliterating the sides of beef. You know, hey, Champ, you better take a look at this. This this guy means business. And you know Apolo just absent mindly. Yeah, I mean business too. And I love that moment for Apolo because he is so focused. He's just not focused on the fight. You know, he's talking about promotions. He's talking about you know points in Canada. Yeah, it's send the mayor of Rose.

48:50 Yeah, he's Apollo is a is a a professional through and through. And it's a great moment because you realize in that one moment, like hey, Rocky might actually have a shot, you know, he could, he could beat the heavyweight champion of the world. Love that moment. Love love Tony Burton. You know, obviously you know his his role, Like if you look at the credits, he's credited as Apollo's trainer in this first one, and Apollo even calls him Tony in the movie once because he didn't have a name, so you know, he Yeah, a lot of people think that stallone made a mistake. And Rocky, uh Rocky five being a Rocky Rocky five. He's in the showers after the Drago fight and he says, hey, Tony, get Adrian and everyone's like, wait, who's Tony go thousand name was Duke, and they kind of retrofitted to like, hey, you know his name, his nicknames Duke. His real name is Tony. But but Carl Weathers he did that. He did the same thing, uh in the first Rocky. So I like that about it. I love I love little things about that in the movie when you know they kind of make it Cannon. Let's talk about one one more of very underrated moment, Rocky talking to Adrian about going the distance with Creed the night before the fight. It works so hard. Yeah, I don't matter because always nobody before don't say that, I'll come on Adrian. It's true. Always nobody that don't matter either, you know, because I always thinking I really don't matter if I

50:25 lose this fight. I really don't matter if this guy opens my head either. It's all I want to do is go to distance. Nobody's ever gone to distance, will create And if I can go that distance, seeing that bell rings and I'm still standing, I'm want to know for the first time in my life, you see I weren't just another from the neighborhood. It's you know, you talk beautiful moments. This is another beautiful one because what we've seen from Rocky Baba at this point is that he has a confidence problem. You know, he's been beat down his whole life. No one's ever been in his corner literally or figuratively, and this is his chance to just kind of be vulnerable to Adrian. She's kind of holding him. They're laying there. I love this whole thing, right, yeah, right, it's a it's a pointy moment. And yeah, I mean I've been there where I have some type of event the next day and you can't sleep, and I get I get that he's wandering around, he's wide awake. Uh yeah, it's just it's he's kind of saying every everything everybody knew, Like, look, I've I've done some amateur fights, you know, I've done like, you know, stick fighting, and I've done grappling matches, and I've done amateur MMA when it was illegal out here in California, and I know that the butterflies and the nerves that keep you up and all you're all you're doing is doubting yourself, like really well for me, and I look,

51:55 this is I am not comparing myself to Rocky level or anything like that. I'm pure amateur. But your fear that's running through your head is like this, dude, I could get like I could just like get caught slipping and not thinking and get my head taken off. You know, I'm gonna get hit, somebody's gonna punch me, I'm gonna break my nose. And it so it's you're you're constantly going through your head and you just all you do is just stick. You're like Comotos, you know. I remember my wife was just like, you're not basically Komatos. You know, You're just you're just not involved socially. You know, you just want to just sit. So I kind of felt I know what he feels. And he did it wonderfully. He was just staring straight ahead, didn't really look at her.

52:39 He came and he sat on the bed and he just stared straight ahead, and he just went through all the doubts that you you have when you're doing you're in those situations, and yeah, it's and and you know what I also noticed too, is that Adrian like he's like, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to, I can't win, or I don't want to do this. And she didn't. She doesn't say well you got you know, we in Rocky or whatever she said in Rocky three or whatever. It was more like, well, what are you gonna do? Like she was just like, what what are you gonna do? She didn't tell him what to do. She kind of just threw it back at him, Well then what are you gonna do? That was crazy, It was cool advice. You know, she wasn't this. She wasn't this. She didn't have this wisdom that she would impart on him and him and go yeah, okay, I get it. It wasn't anything like that, which I think maybe one of the eighties movies probably would have done, you know, but it was just more like, oh, I don't know what the hell?

53:25 You know, she didn't even understand why he wanted to be a fighter in the first place. So yeah, well their first date, she's like, why do you want to do this? So like what, you know, do you ask that question like four times? You know, why do you want to be a fighter? Yeah? It was great. He goes, you go to be stupid to be a fighter. So yeah, yes, it is a really great moment. It's amazing too because Sly thinks it's the most important scene in the movie. And we almost don't get it because this is a point in production when they have gone over budget. The producers say, hey, we're acting this whole thing. We don't we're not doing it, and he pleads with them, says, you know, we gotta have it. They give him one take to nail this monologue, and he does it and it makes final cut. It is a long scene too, and it for one take because I watched it it. He sits down and then the camera slowly zooms in, you know, it pushes in on him, So it's a I think it's all one take. I'm pretty sure it's one, but I know, I know the first part of it definitely long when it comes in and sits down, So I don't know if you're touching on the best moments. But I think for me it's the I think I'm also the guy that doesn't like things talked about. I'm the guy that doesn't mind if if you didn't see the Witch at the end of Blair Witch, you know, I like that it's thrown to the intelligence of the viewer and and you can almost ruin stuff if you over explain it or talk or throw in too much dialogue. And so my favorite scene, which I guess i'd

54:58 call it underrated, is after Rocky was yelling and he gets everything off his chest and Mick walks out on the street and it's that long shot on the street. It's just silent, and he just runs down and he runs on the street and if you watch clothes, like he's running up the sidewalk mix about to cross the street and rock comes up behind him, and Mick turns and he kind of backs off, like, oh shit, he's gonna kick my yep. He takes a couple of steps back like I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Like it's beautiful, but you don't hear anything, so you just have to your mind has to connect the thoughts and go, wow, he must be saying something nice thing you'll never know, but it's just enough, you know what I mean. And they didn't like have this friendship then after because I think the next shot, the next scene you see Mick and rock together, he's yelling at him about you know, he's yelling him on about something. So, you know what I mean, maybe that's what I like.

55:51 I don't like the Schmaltz for the sake of Schmaltz, you know what I mean. It was just beautiful, poignant, and it didn't need to say a word, and it was just all that one long, drawn out shot which is wonderful, and it's a fantastic shot. Yeah, fantastic shot, and you're right, absolutely right. Uh. The next time we see him, they're training and you know he's he's like, lay off that pet shop game, and he's like, I like her and he let her train you you know, yeah, that was I think. I'll tell you you know, whether it's an important scene, a favorite scene, underrated scene, you know, based on what you know you're just talking about with that that that moment that Mick and Rocky have on the on the street where nothing's well, you know, we yeah, things are getting said, but we don't know it. I'll tell you a great moment for me where nothing is said except everything is said, is in the final fight. We're in the last round, Rocky goes down, Apollo is celebrating, he gets back, Rocky gets back up and does just does that, you know, motions him like come on, let's let's keep going. The moment you see Apollo's face that and he just drops his head in disbelief that this guy is actually back up on his feet. Yeah. I get chills every time I see that, dude, And I think you're right in that. And if I had to point one the best things that happened in the fight, you know, it's

57:22 when Rocky breaks his ribs and all that, But that shot right there, what you're saying, that really just embodies everything about the fight, like, holy shit, this guy's got guts. You know, he's getting pounded the crap. You know, he's getting the crap beat out of him and Rocky it just it says Apollo, I don't want to anymore. He's kind of getting nervous. This guy's really good. And it just also shows the heart that Rocky has and that Yeah, that's the best moment for me too. In the fight. It definitely gives me chills that moment right there. Absolutely love it. Well, we're coming up on the final round of this episode. Let's head to the corner for one last quick break. Words that Matter Prequel, sequel, remake, and our ratings are next. Andy, let's talk. Let's talk about words that matter, and I'll tell you something I did even I didn't even write the most famous line out of this whole movie down in my notes, obviously talking about Yeo Adrian, because that's that's the most that's the most famous one. But outside of that, you got you got a favorite favorite line. I remember we'll line from this okay, so you might not. It's not it's not anything deep, but it's not anything.

58:31 It's what what entertains me the most. And it's the back and forth between Buddy Gozl's driver and Rocky and I think most two guys, these two guys go back and wait, he says, you know what he says, and take you to the zoo. I think that that line kills me. I say that quite a bit to friend, you know, deal to my friend to the zoo. Like you know, I don't want to I don't want to repeat if you haven't seen. Yeah, yeah, we know what you're talking about. But I say that I'm relax. But he's in a bad mood. It's just prostate. Well, it's always in a bed mood. You alway ought to couch your blessing, but you're still a healthy person.

59:13 You know that. I don't like yours. I don't like your kiss. Relaxed, relax my ears? What are you driving me crazy? Both the ears? But he doesn't like you. Yeah, some guys just hate for no reason. Yeah, fifty bucks. You and your girl Adrian, you have a nice time. Yeah, how do you know her name? I don't think I had things? Yeah, remember what I thought? Would you tell me? He goes? But he doesn't like it. He's got a bad what is Uh, it's just prostate. He's always yeah lines right there? That that that ship right there? Uh forget it man. So yeah, it's nothing, you know, anything inspirational or anything, but those those lines between those guys just something, you know, you know, get it. It's what do you say too, hey, meat bag? Or something yells out the window. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, man, I'm about those guys. They need a sitcom or something together. Those oh, I would watch that in a second. Man. I think my favorite line in the entire movie it's three words, cut me mick. Okay, see it doesn't gun open my eye, which I don't did that act?

1:00:45 Can that actually happen in a fight because you're actually just like you know, those are the reasons cut man. That's why that's why fights get stopped, is there's a cut over an eye. You know, so you know, I know he had to relieve the pressure and whatnot, but now you have a cut of leading cut over your eye unless you got this amazing cut man. Which who that guy was too right? The guy? Yeah, introduced that guy and he was actually I think he was actually a cut man for like a a guy who fought Joe Lewis or something at something I don't know. Yeah, that was. That was That is a great shocking scene. You know, I remember being a kid seeing that. Oh my god, is that what happens when your eye bows up? You could just cut it? And yeah, it was, but it's it's the most it's the easiest, you know, effect to pull off. A guy just squeezed some type of packet and squeezed it and just shot, but very effective. Yeah, I love that, love that moment of fight. Uh Andy, how about this one? Uh sage advice from from Mickey Women Weekend Legs. Have you had you ever had had one of your trainers tell you that one?

1:01:54 No? No, you know, when I was a kid, I used to play ball. I was never allowed to go swimming, and the day of a game because he was supposed to, you can't go swimming today. So I mean, I remember being a kid in Little league, and I've never heard about the women thing, but yeah, that's a wild one. And you know it's funny too if you watch, well, you know Jimmy, I guess the guy who was helping Mick when he when he said that and when he tied his ankles together with the two feet strength, that's a very narrow damn He's give him one. Two feet mate, I don't know two feet, which is like if you're a you know, a boxer, I think you want to be a little wider than two feet because you know, like if you watch like Tyson or something, you gotta really get a good flat stance and to throw your your a bunch of strong. But I mean, I think two feet is more like my tie because you're you'd be a little lighter on your feet and you can kind of throw your kicks a little. I don't know, but yeah, that was a little odd thing.

1:03:00 Well, I guess it's a little better catching a chicken. Yeah, I think the second one maybe second or third one? No, second one, second one. It was a three, yeah, because I thought because I thought Mick was, oh that's right, Yeah, you're right, you're right. Oh man, what Chicago or something like that. Yeah, let's talk prequel, sequel, remake. And I did the Last Time You're with Us. You knocked it out of the park with with your rolling thunder movie idea for the bridge between Assaulting Assault AP Precinct thirteen and and Escape from New York. So the Creed franchise is solid, and there's even talk about another spin off focusing on on Ivan Drago's son Victor. Oh yeah, Andy, what does Rocky need at this point? A prequel, another sequel, or a remake. So so this is not going to be as brilliant as right, So don't get your hopes up. But I think it's I like to ignore that there were sequels to this movie, you know too, They just gradually got cornier and cornier. But although the Rocky Babbo movies are I think those are you know, Rocky Babbo and then the Creed movies. There's are really good sequels. I don't know if I'd go anywhere different than they did.

1:04:26 But I mean, let's say, if you're gonna go the corn ball route with the sequels, you know, and then have them Rocky in space or something, have them fight aliens. I don't know, you know what I mean, He's got the Kingdom of the Aliens and then for the safety. So I don't know. That's That's how corny that stuff got for me, right, it just got so I think a sequel is out of the question. So that's why I'm going down that route. So I think, and every maake, Like I said, this movie's perfect. It's perfect. You can't redo it. You can't. There's nothing. I was starting to think, is there anything I would change about this movie? There is one thing I'd say. It's where he invites Adrian up to his room and he says, oh, you want to go to soda and I got some I might have What do he say, I've got some cookies or so get some some cupcakes and some donuts cupcakes, so no nuts. So being from Philly and being from that area and cupcakes, it's not you wouldn't I think he would if he would have said tasty cakes, because tasty cakes is very big.

1:05:26 They're they're huge down there. I don't I don't even think you can get him out here. So if you would have said, got some tasty cakes, that would have just have managed the perfectness of this movie. So anyways, cupcakes, I don't know who bakes a cupcake and has it on hand. But anyways, that was my only critique. So anyways, what I'm saying is I wouldn't redo it, so you're stuck with prequel, and then I guess there might be something there. It doesn't excite me, but maybe it's how he met Gazo and how he ended up being a leg breaker, so it'd be less you know what. Maybe I think he said he had sixty four some odd fights up, so there might be something there with that, you know, him working his way up. But I'm not interested really in seeing it, you know, I maybe it could be done.

1:06:10 Okay, So that's my answer. I would just say prequel halfheartedly, you know. Okay, let me see if I can. If I can get you to wholeheartedly here, I'm gonna pitch you a prequel idea. Okay, because you're right, you cannot remake a perfect movie and we don't need any more sequels. But if we're going to go with a prequel route, I'm gonna give you this movie called Mighty Mick. It's a story about a boxer, A story about a boxer who fought for everything, including his one shot at immortality when he knocked Ruso out of the ring. Tom Holland starring as a depression era Mickey Goldmill scraping by on undercard fights. I love it.

1:06:59 I love it, dude. And think about this, Mike, did he say yeah, Tylor Mike? And the one guy with the nail in his thumb you could have ye, the guy yeah, the nail? Yeah? And think about we even get that great underdog. He loses, but he wins at the end of it because he can celebrate the fact that he went the distance with Russo. He knocks Russo out of the ring. Even though it's it's overshadowed by the fact that Dempsey gets knocked out of the ring in the in the in the title fight, you know it's I don't know, man, it's right myself. I could see it. I could might. I would be excited. And I'll tell you what. Take a look.

1:07:41 Take a look at a at a Burgess Meredith in his twenties, striking resemblance to Tom Holland's Spider Man. Oh really okay, yeah, yeah, I saw when I saw this picture of Burgess Meredith, I thought, the only guy that could do this and has and has the fighter's body already it's Tom Holland. Yeah. I'm surprised they didn't do something like that. Yeah, they really should. It's not too not too late. If Hollywood's out there listening, you know, we always got a shot. I'll talk to my Hollywood buddies. See we can make Yeah, yeah, see what you can do there, Andy, But but we It's funny that one of my favorite lines also in the movie is where Mick shows Rocky that photo of him, that photo You don't took very good care of it, though, yeah, which is true. It was all crumpled up, a very good care of it. Yeah, you know, it's and that's a it's a it's kind of like back to the heartbreaking stuff in this movie. I like the idea that these broken, broken down fighters, they carry their press clippings, they carry photos of their fight. Like Rocky's got photos of his fights in his wallet. Mix's got his press clippings. It's a it's it's it's it's heartbreaking in a little bit of a way. I was gonna say, as far as pullings crap out of their pockets. And when I was a kid, when I saw Rocky, and you know how you walk around and he's carrying that racquetball, that ball, and he's just growing it and catching it.

1:09:08 And I've made sure I was a kid, I put a rocket ball in my pocket and I used to walk down the street doing the same thing. Yeah, I love it. It's funny. Yeah, because dude, you gotta remember when I was a kid, ten eleven, twelve, you know you're very influenced by this movie. H And nowadays you know, it's it's funny. I've met people. In fact, a guy on our show we just never saw a Rocky. So it's you know, I don't know, let's get this, Uh, let's get this a film by a podcast. People listen so they watch Rocky because I mean, you're missing it. The absolutely yeah, anyone that hasn't seen this, we're talking about the highest grossing movie of nineteen seventy six. It wins the Academy Award for Best Picture, and it is one of the most famous characters in all the movie history.

1:09:55 Andy, I know, I know the answer that you're gonna give me. But out of a possible four stars, what are you given, Rocky? Yeah? Four four plus four whatever? Yeah, yeah, four undisputed stars is definitely the way to get with this one. And I gotta say too, I think I heard this before, but this movie ends on a perfect note, whereas like it, it builds and builds and builds to the to the final moment. And also another one of my favorite lines is when Adrian comes in the ring. You know, he's calling her name and she comes in the ring and her well, her hat falls off as when she running up. Do you know it's the first line of the first thing that Rocky says to her. It was your head lost, grounded. Beautiful moment that that that line right there. But anyways, I'm getting off again. I'm getting off track. But you know who was your hit? And then it ended with him in the ring. He didn't win, right, but it didn't matter because it was getting drowned out by all the music and all the people cheering, and all the people trying to interview Rocky, right, who gave a crap if he won, and the fact when they hug, that's where you end the movie, and that's his life should have shouldn't have gotten any better from that moment. That's why I think sequels like we're kind of hokey, because that's his that's his crowning moment. Rights. That's a very interesting point. And I know you know that they filmed like stuff in the lock you know, him walking down the hall all and that's one images from

1:11:26 which Adrian has her hat too, which doesn't make sense, but it's it's you didn't need that, like he added, and he says, hey, this film doesn't need that. We should end at this moment, this little section. So I think if you look at the movie as a whole, we join Rocky's life where where we should where he's just you know, struggling, and he gets the shot, and then we end when he succeeds in what he's setting out to do. The whole movie and it just that's all you need to know about Rocky's life. That's where it should have ended. Everything. They shouldn't have made a sequel, And I was it's just the perfect ending to perfect movie. That's it. You. Yeah, you mentioned them walking out hand in hand. Uh. Scene gets cut from the movie, but it is. I'm I'm staring at the twenty seven by forty one sheet that's the most like the gotta be one of the most popular Rocky posters ever ever put out. And it's just a beautiful moment. And you you don't need to have that moment in the movie to know that this is this is one of the great Yeah, it's it's a great sports movie. Obviously, it's one of the best sports movies of all time. But I happen to think it's one of the best love stories of all time. Honestly.

1:12:27 You know, someone says, oh, you know you like you like love movie, you like love stories. I was like, Yeah, let's let's talk about Rocky. Yeah. Andy, it's a it's always a pleasure talking with you. Uh, we got another one of your favorites taxi driver schedule for November. I gotta I gotta hope you'll be back for that one. Yeah, I'd love to love to be back. Yeah, talking talking about Travis Bickle. Yeah, a little different character than than our Rocky. A little different Yeah, absolutely, a little bit different. Listeners, let us know what you think about Rocky at www dot a film by podcast dot com, or on social media. Do you have a favorite film in the franchise?

1:13:09 Tell us until then, thanks for lending your ears. Catch you on the flip side.