1996: The Craft

0:02 It was the mid nineties. Some of us were a year or two out of high school and some of us were a year or two into college. We didn't know who we wanted to be, but we knew where we wanted to be the movie theater. These are the movies of nineteen ninety six. For this episode of a Film by join us for a nostalgic trip back to the year nineteen ninety six. We're exploring the culture, the music, and the message that films in nineteen ninety six offered to determine whether they're classics, cult classics, or just a product of their time. I am Amber Lewis, and on this special Women's History Month, all Female episode, I've taken over the studio and in Amanda Janeic to help me call the corners. So welcome Amanda, friend of the show and a guest on the Black Christmas episode which I just listened to the other day and load Well, thanks for having me and I love she's wearing like a Friday the thirteenth, hooty, super awesome, love it the wardrobe stable. All right, Well, everyone, let's light some candles, burn some sage, and discuss the nineteen ninety six film the Craft. There's just something about them that's different this morning to another

1:38 school, that's exciting, that's making everyone want to know them. I can't stop thinking about you. And there's a real good reason why a witch friend. Watch out for those weirdles, Lady dar Theaters, Friday, So Quick Synopsis. A newcomer to a Catholic prep school falls in with a trio of outcast teenage girls who practice witchcraft, and they all soon conjure up various spells and curses against those who anger them. So, Amanda, when I was looking this up, you know, I bought it off a Prime. It is available on Pluto TV. Yeah you guys commercials. Yeah, I wanted to get the Blu ray, but I didn't have enough time before the podcast, so I just bought it streaming. But so Dayton, please forgive me.

2:36 But you're the horror movie aficionado, like this was listed under horror. Do you consider this a horror film? Not at all? Not at all, And to be honest, this isn't even my wheelhouse this type of horror. If they would call it a horror movie. I'm more into the slashers, Like I'm weird like that. As they say in the movie, I am the weird all But I love that line so much that it's like the killer line from the trailer. It's one of my favorites, as oh, the Super nineteen nineties trailer. You gotta love that too, even you know, back then when I was in high school and stuff, this was not my forte of horror. This was not my regular taste. It's not horror to me at all. There's nothing scary about it. But like, I feel like it's more like like a coming of age movie, like like Ferrispueller or The Breakfast Club. Like it's each have their gimmick. It's us meets witchcraft. Yep. Yes, Like it really only gets crazy in the last like half hour mm hmm, you know, And so up until then, I feel like you're just watching teenage girls. Yeah, yeah, like you said, coming of age story. After the uh Satanic panic of the seventies and eighties, everybody kind of started to relax into this idea of witchcraft and women kind of taking control of their destinies. It wasn't so unusual for women to be more in the business world and you know, more power in the home and things like that, and with like the grunge esthetic and the focus on individuality. The idea is which is as like the ultimate outsiders who gained

4:13 power from going against the grain, like really seemed to kind of have a jumping off point here, did you, Like, I knew tons of people that this was when they started exploring WIKA and lighting candles and reading you know, Scott Cunningham and things like that. Did was that your group or is that that kind of a niche for? That? Was not not me at all, But there were some of those people in high school. We had the people that were you know, exploring, like you said, the wick on stuff, and then the people who were exploring vampirism because interview with a vampire, you know, like and not calling those people freaks because everybody's different or whatever. But that was, you know, one subset of a group in high school. But yes, definitely knew some people like this. Knew far more people like the quote unquote bullies in this movie, though, Yes, And unfortunately, you know, my son loves this movie and was very excited that we were watching it multiple times. But one of the first things he said the first time, you know, we turned it on was the bullying is it's not any better, it's not you know, it's just the same. Like it just seems like a generational curse almost. Yep. Yeah.

5:39 Unfortunately, how old is your son? He's twenty four, Okay, So I have an eighteen year old who's in the throes of high school right now. Yeah, he graduates. Yeah, he actually graduates in June. I know, it's hard to believe because I look so young, but it's yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. No, I'm kidding, but you know, he experienced some of that, you know, more so in middle school though than high school, which is I can identify with that because middle school was awful. High school was a little bit easier. I felt like, this is more the type of stuff that bullying and stuff that I experienced in middle school. Same mine was like like fifth sixth grade was like the worst, awful, Like they're just little goblins at that age. Yep.

6:31 And then you get I think you get more self involved in high school, so you don't have time to really pay attention to what other people are doing. And BAMA matter, at least in my case. Yeah, I mean it's still there, it's still there, but yeah, you know, you come together. I don't know how it was where you went to school, but we had like four middle schools, maybe three or four middle schools that fed into the high school. Mm hmm. So all of a sudden, you may have only known one or two people like you in middle school. Well, now then you go to high school, there's more people like you. So then that whole sapient numbers type thing, you know. And all right, so let's talk cast and production. Starring Robin Tooney, Buza balk, Nev Campbell, and Rachel True, the movie opened at number one in North America, making six point seven million dollars. Its sleeper hit status was attributed to teenagers and young women responding to the movie's themes and proving, as always, if you build it, they will come, damn. According to box office Mojo, the Craft is the eleventh highest grossing film about witches since nineteen eighty. Well, ultimately it earned fifty five point six million against a budget of fifteen million. Huge success. But here listen to this and this.

7:56 I just can't even talk about how much this annoys me. It's rated R. Yeah. The only thing I could find is they were trying to get a PG. Thirteen reading for it, which I've seen PG. Thirteen movies that were way more violent, yep, you know, way more sex, way more you know, nudity. There's no sex, there's no nudity. There's really very little violence. And it was because it was teenage girls practicing witchcraft. I read that. And also, you know, obviously nineteen ninety six, mental health wasn't as big of an issue or discussing it wasn't as you know from it. I read that it was that i'mgoing threat of suicide as well, because which they kind of glamorize it. Yes, yes, which they knew teenage girls that was their their market, you know, so hopefully that would turn away some of the teenage girls. And I also read that it was and this ties into kind of what you say, it was misconstrued as double worship, even though they specifically say in the movie this isn't double worship. But it's kind of that perfect storm coming together at the time. But I just think there's like just this layer of misogyny that is just so frustrating. But I love that it's still like made all this like

9:26 people came anyway nobody can yep, absolutely, but I just can't even believe that. Yeah, it's just so yeah, like it's nineteen to ninety six, right right, like you love, Like it's only the last twenty minutes that get violent, you know, but yeah there's one f bomb, you know. But we can go see Indianagens in the Last or in the Temple of Doom and watch a guy's like ar get ripped out of his chest and right right like it's but that's bananas, it's over again. It is kind it is kind of mind boggling. But like it said, different times too. You know, this is rated R, but so is American Pie and they don't they don't even compare. But yeah, different times, yep.

10:13 Absolutely, And I thought was interesting that the critics really liked it. They loved the cast, they thought the performances were great. The biggest complaint they had was that there was so much special effects toward the end. But I don't know, I feel like, unless you're gonna make like a real Wiccan movie, which would be honestly kind of boring, right, you're just like praising trees and lighting candles and being very zen, you know, you have to lean into their powers, right, so you have to have special effects. I mean watching it now, they're kind of dated. Yeah, I hate the glamour sequences, Okay, are by far the weakest. Not a fan. I'm a huge fan of Christopher Nolan because he uses practical effects, and I think it's no mistake that one of the best gags in the movie is the practical effect of the levitation. Oh yeah, when they do light as a feather stiff as a board. Yep. Like that's the best scene and it's all camera tricks. That's probably the most iconic scene from the movie as well, wouldn't you say? I think so. I think that's what people care about, are you if you mentioned the relationships and the fun at the beginning, if you mentioned the crap, that's the scene that people remember mm hmm, not her coming out of a mirror at the end, or you know whatever. It's that. Like you said, the light is a

11:45 feather stiff as a board sequence, Yes, and I kind of felt like it also. We talked about it kind of being like a teen movie, but also it gave me kind of superhero movie vibes because my favor my favorite part of a superhero movie is, especially in an origin story, there is always a moment if the movie's worth a darn where the hero has just gotten their powers and they just take a moment and have fun. And for one sequence you have Spider Man swinging through New York or Superman flying and it just feels good to do that. And it's just a young person that can do these things, going wow, look what I can do. Oh my god.

12:31 And so there's a lot of that in the beginning of this, as they start to you know, develop their powers, you know, just the fun of it all and the being girls at a sleeper right right, I mean right off the bat, you know. I mean too though they're making a girl lose her hair, you know, like they poor guy with the snake, I mean, he was obviously you know, to use the tone first collective act is murder. Yeah, I did, to use a term from the genre that I am most familiar with. You know, he's our harbinger, you know, and they run away lasting like that doesn't make me feel good, But I see what you're saying. It's like it's playful for a while, yes, and I agree. I agree. That's fun to watch. All right. Here we go, So some behind the scenes info.

13:26 The idea for the movie came from producer Douglas Wick and screenwriter Peter Filardi, who wanted to make a movie that blended high school and witchcraft. Andrew Fleming was brought on board to direct and write the final draft of the screenplay. The movie is shot all over Los Angeles, and I don't know are you? I know you're a slasher girl, but are you a Lost Boys? Oh? Yeah, because I freaking love that movie and the whole sequence of them in downtown LA at the beginning, like it was such a Lost Boys vibe. Yeah, it felt like, I mean, I'm a huge Loss Boys fan. I'm a bigger Keeper Sutherland fan, you know. But that's a whole other podcast. I can't decide if it's real or if it's just fun. Either way, it's fun. First of all, they hired a real life wicked named Pat Devon to act as an onset advisor. She wrote the incantations and invented the spirit manon that's not even like a thing.

14:28 But then when the name, yeah, so like why would you even do that? But I like that. They also didn't like pick something real and do it wrong, right, They did their homework. Yeah, they say that. When filming the invocation of the spirit scene. Several strange occurrences disrupted production like that, Yeah, the fog rolled in only when they were doing the incantation, Like when they cut, everything was fine, but then they'd start rolling and the fog rolled in and that's hovered over the set, and the tide rose and came up dramatically and like put out their candles and then all the power went out. Wow. And so there's a great behind the scenes, you know, making a little documentary on the DVD and you can find it on YouTube also, okay, and half of the people involved in production are like, ooh, spooky. And then Robin Tony is like, oh my god, you guys were on the beach and like, I'm just I'm reading about that right now as you're talking, because I'm like, I didn't read any of the facts, but I just thought it was funny that our lead actress, playing Sarah, Robin Tunny was like, Okay, so the water came up. We're by the ocean and the tide comes in because

16:00 that's what the tide does. Like she was totally sketch about the whole thing. She was not impressed, and everybody else was like ooh, it was this spooky though, so I can't decide if, like if Robin Tutney's right, and practically speaking, it was just things that happened. Nobody, nobody else more powerful than than we ever guessed. That's so interesting, isn't that funny? Yeah? I love stories like that. Though. We had eighty five other actresses screen tests for the four main roles, including Angelina, Julie Scarlett Johansson, and Alicia Silverstone. M h. I don't know about those choices. I can see that. I can see Angelina Jolie only given what kind of transpired around that time with her and Billie, Bob Thornton and stuff, and they're violent blood and yes, yes, exactly, and she's got that look, you know, that look about her, kind of exact different pum to her. So I can see that the other two. No, all right, well let's talk about who they did cast. My favorite is fru Is the bal who plays Nancy. She is such an out there force of nature, just wild woman, just commanding of every scene that she's in, and so never ever born, No, no, she's never. She's always at a time and so smart like she had. They interviewed her in

17:33 this behind the scenes documentary, and she talks about, you know, how she really studied about Wika and what it really was all about and really got into it and really was interested, and then also really dove into her character's backstory. And you know, she comes from this very toxic, abusive, addiction riddled home and what kind of psyche would that person have and the magic becomes her addiction. She already has that addictive personality right right, you know, for like a teen movie. She really you know, had this elaborate psychological profile of this girl that she was playing. And it makes Nancy more interesting, I think than just the crazy one. Yeah. No, I like that right off the bat from jump in this movie, she is got those personality traits that continue through the whole movie. You know, the boisterous, allowed, the harsh, you know, the harshness to her. It's not something that evolves once she gets the you know, the powers and stuff like that. It was there all along, yes, But you know, I one thing I love is her introduction when she's walking through the commons with Rachelle and Bonnie. She has what is this look about her? She's in the middle and they're on either side, and she has this look about her

19:06 like, do not mess with me, stay away from me, approach at your peril. Yep. And it totally fits that Bonnie and Rochelle would be drawn to her because Bonnie needs somebody to protect her and Rochelle needs somebody to deflect the interest okay, because she's the only black girl at the school, right right, and Nancy is so she's so magnetic, yeah, in kind of a negative way that she just pulls everybody to her and you don't really notice the other two. And I thought that was a really great way to introduce the three of them in their dynamic. Absolutely, because we all knew somebody like that in high school too, the loud mouth one, the one that everybody thinks it's weird, but you know, they've got those insecurities they're trying to cover up too, because you see her insecurities when she's at home and stuff. You know, it's like that's the front she puts on, you know, self protection. So we all knew somebody like that. It's so interesting that she takes it to such an aggressive place like usually that person is the class clown. Mm hmm. You know, well I'll laugh at myself first, So nobody can laugh at me, right right, And she's so so angry and aggressive with it. Yep, how bent on revenge?

20:27 Yeah for sure. Next in our coven is Rachelle, played by Rachel True. She was one of the first to be cast, but her character was not written as a person of color. Okay, so they completely rewrote her character and her storyline and added that racial abuse into who she is. And I think she talks about the actress talks about how important it is to be represent for you know, girls, to see somebody like them, you know, kind of going through what they go through. And I have to say, like her magic storyline is the one I can get behind the most.

21:14 Laura Lizzy is just the worst, and I think she deserves everything she gets. Oh, one hundred percent. No, I really liked that character a lot. Didn't they cast her though, because and like you said, she wasn't written to be a person of color, But didn't they audition her and liked her so much that they cast her and then rebuilt the story around the actress herself. Yes, she said that they brought her back several times to audition, but she was only ever auditioning for Rochelle. So she took that as like a positive. Yeah, that kind of like, well, this is mine. I guess they just need to see more, which I thought was just kind of progress for the nineties. I mean, we're still fighting now to have more representation in movies and pop culture, and you know, hey, we got one fourth of the Coven as a person of color.

22:12 Said nothing for nineteen ninety six. So now Robin tooney her story. She plays Sarah, and her story is interesting. She had just done Empire Records and had shaved her head. So she comes into audition and her hair was like an inch long, but there was something about it, and she was auditioning for Bonnie. She wasn't even auditioning for Sarah, but there was something about her. So they brought her back and threw a wig on her and had her audition again. And she really wanted the part of Bonnie, but they sold her on the part of Sarah because they just saw that she had that charisma to really hold the movie together. I think that was just an inspired choice. Yeah, it's not a great wig, but yes, I agree. I think she's good phenomenal in the role because she plays it from all facets, you know, like she plays the angst angle, the revenge angle, the fear angle, the happy go lucky teenager angle, like she's got them all that whole range in there, and I think she does really really well with it despite some of the really bad like dubbing that kind of drew that kind of drove me a little crazy. Not gonna lie because it's like clearly they recorded that at a separate time. But I think she does.

23:30 I think she does great. And it was such a that's such a tricky storyline to play because it doesn't one hundred percent I feel like makes sense. You go out with this guy one time, you smooch one time, and then he tells everybody that you slept together and you were terrible and embarrasses you in the hallway. But you're gonna cast a love spell. Yeah, I'm in this tool, Like I don't know. I'm glad you brought that up, because that was one of the things, you know, in revisiting this movie that I was like, didn't like that when I saw twenty years ago. Still don't like it. Now, do you think it would have been different if, like Nancy, she had wanted more revenge, like she had actually wanted to make him look like an idiot. I don't know though, because they when they casted their initial spells, hers were still pretty genuine, Like she wasn't hell bent on revenge and stuff. You know, she wasn't. I don't want to say mean girl yet because she doesn't quite go full mean girl. She gets her backbone later, but yes, she was still that innocent, hurt girl. So the spell did not make a lot of sense to me. It wouldn't have made sense to me if it was.

24:47 Oh, I want to do this to make a fool of them either though. But then again, you know, these girls are meant to be what sixteen years old, so a lot of what we did at sixteen didn't make sense anyways. So so maybe, you know, putting yourself in the head of a sixteen year old girl, even though you were hurt like that and stuff, maybe you still want them to pine up for you and you know, showing the air of their ways. You could have had this, you know, but I don't think any either way would be better or worse. But yes, I'm glad you brought that up, because I'm like, I don't know about that, But the more I'm again gaining perspective, trying to think of it from a sixteen year old girls standpoint, maybe it does make sense. Well, and maybe there are some girls out there that are just like, oh, Skate Old Bridge is so gorgeous, because I was just like, eh, yeah, not in this movie. No, yeah, you knew now, all right? The last member of our Kevin Now they said she was the most famous. I didn't know any of these girls except for for Uza Balk, for Usa Balk was in my favorite Christmas movie, the best Chris Magic Ever, and she was in Return to Oz, which was the stuff of nightmares even to this day. But for everyone else, Nev Campbell was the one that everybody knew. This was kind of a Nev Campbell movie in a way because of Party of Five. Were you a

26:21 big Party of Five fan back in the day, You know, I couldn't tell you one thing about the show aside from I mean, I can see their faces and stuff, but I can tell you I watched it, but I knew her from there. Well. She got cast at the last minute after they convinced Robin Tutney to take the role of Sarah. And it was this movie that Wes Craven saw and said that's the girl I want for scream, which, oh my god, how amazing is that? Yeah, that's it's interesting sing because it's like she does still play this, you know, somewhat naive kind of sweet girl, at least for the first half of this movie, you know, So I can see why West Dragon would see that.

27:14 Well, and even at the end, like she she becomes so happy that she's just obnoxious and narcissistic, but she's still got that, leading to my least favorite line of the movie when when they're driving in the car and Sarah turns around and goes, you used to be nice, but now you're just narcissistic or something like that. Yeah, but it's like what sixteen year old talks like that? Both times hears both times under my skin that line. So I love that scene because I love how no matter how Nancy yells at them, Rachelle and Bonnie just keep laughing at Yeah, that's funny.

27:56 It's not the scene, it's just that one line that I'm Yes, sixteen year olds do not talk that way. Maybe they do, No, I don't know, but I know we didn't talk that way back then. No. No, Well, and she's like doing a psychological profile and everybody in the car because then she tells Nancy like, you're paranoid, and mm hmm. It's like I would just you know, in nineteen ninety six, you know what would I be then nineteen you know, let's say I was sixteen at the time. Though, you just turn around and go, you know, you used to become a knight, just a bitch. Yeah, you know, like I can't even imagine the word narcissist coming out of my mouth. But well, she's the leader of the Kevin So yeah, even if they don't realize it, there was there was a whole storyline that they kind of cast aside, but not really where nobody else has powers they're just leeching off Sarah. And I feel like that's still kind of a through line.

28:52 I do too, Like I think she brings them all together and they're able to manifest more as a group than they are individually. But I think if she had moved to town, like they could have invoked the spirit all day long and he wouldn't showing up. Mm hmm, I agree. I agree. Well, she is the fourth though, so right, but then she still has powers at the end too. Yeah, And the other end, Bonnie and Rachelle don't. No, is that because she invoked the spirit of Manon. I don't know that's what I took it as. I think.

29:33 I think it had more to do with her embracing her power. Yeah, unless like him imbuing her with power, right right? No, I see that too. I mean I don't know that we're talking necessarily about two different things either, Like, well, yeah, I think that's why at the end she still had the power. She had it all along, but more of it. I think. All right, let's talk about the supporting cast. Let's get Chris out of the way. Skeet Ulrich playing the same exact character that he will then go on to play in Scream, only just slightly less psychotic. It's just because it's a little less psycho. But I don't know. I mean, he does like attempt a sexual assault, So yeah, we have borderline felony in one scene. You know, he was on his way mm hmm, but that erratic he didn't have that erratic like behavior that that Stu or not Stu Billy has, Yes, because he was, you know, a lovelorn teenager under a spell in this one. So I kind of feel like, I know your answer, who would you prefer?

30:48 Billy or Chris? Neither? I know they're awful, right if I had to look at one Billy, But I got how I just sound old lady creepy saying that I know, right well, we're pretending we're like sixteen, so it's it's okay. Back in ninety six, it would have been Billie all day long. I was personally affronted by Breck and Meier in this movie as Chris's friend met, like he's this sweet, cute, little cuddly skateboarder and clueless so that he shows up as his total like jerk. He total total jerk in this movie. But I thought he played it really really well, like he played the kind of goofy best friend without being over the top.

31:33 I thought I thought he played it really well. He really really did, And that's probably why it drove me so crazy. I think I knew about twenty guys like him in my high school m M. You know, always with a smart comment and always taking it too far. And you know, again, like we talked about before, you know, probably that way because he's covering up in securities, you know, embraces this lie that skeet Ulrich told, you know, whatever, dude's probably never gotten late in his life, you know, but it's easier to like attach himself to that, you know. Yeah, I thought he did great. Be the little puppy following Chris around. They've got their own little covin going on insecure male group.

32:25 And then I think, arguably the worst person in this movie is Laura Lizzie and my Christine Taylor. I had no idea, Like she's the funny girl from you know, like Zoolander and Dodgy all and stuff. Yeah, she's Marcia Brady for crying, yep, yep. And every time I see her in this, like, first of all, I just want to smack her. I'm not a violent person, but she can push me there. But I just can't believe, like when she just looks at her and says, I don't like she's the N word, I'm like, he say to somebody's face. But there are people like that in this world, Yeah there are. And she was just meant to be evil though, See you think of those movies. Every time I see her, I think of, hey, dude, a Nickelodeon. Did you ever watch that back then? Oh my god, By the way, I'm in the middle of the Nickelodeon thing right now, the thing that's dropped on. Yeah, that's not great.

33:30 But she was also the best friend in Wedding ser Oh that's right. Mm hmmm. Oh I love that movie. Me. She's not supposed to be a racist piece of garbage, like that's not her because it's interesting because she can play that dizzy, dumb blonde, you know, like little boy crazy with a heart of gold type character, but then she could turn around and play this pretty fuss. Yeah, for sure. How do we feel about Laura Lizzie getting a redemption arc. I'm kind of not thrilled about it. I kind of feel like she should just be left to stew in her her bad wig. Did she get a redemption work? Well, a little bit, because when they go to the party to get Nancy, Nancy goes to the party to get revenge on Chris because Chris has attacked Sarah. Yeah, so Sarah goes upstairs to get Nancy and Rochelle and Bonnie come in behind them, and Laura's there at the party and she comes up to Rochelle and says, you know, can I talk to you? Yeah, and she's like yeah, and she says, well, so how are you? And she's like fine, and then eventually she says, I'm really sorry. Oh that's weird. Now I'm gonna have to watch it again. So obviously her redemption

35:00 arc did not leave an impression on me, right, it meant nothing to you. I feel like the minute, like, first of all, I don't know how she connected Rochelle to anything that was happening to her in any way, probably internally like just thinking about things, you know, But like I also don't know that that, like the minute her hair stops falling out, she's not gonna like go back to being who she was. Yeah, I'm not crazy about that. No, I thought, I don't. I thought we didn't want any of our villains to like get thrown out the window. I think that was a little excepting poor Chris. We were ready redemption arc at the end of the movie, though. I'm sure we'll talk about that, but I'm glad that didn't happen either. So okay, Amanda, wake up, Sonatna got homework. So one more special mention in our cast?

36:00 How much do we love Lario the woman that runs the Wickan shop. I thought she was so sweet, see, very sweet, and you knew that she had recognized Sarah's abilities immediately. I think she recognized that immediately. Yes, I feel like she was. I have a real problem movies like with exposition dumps, and I do feel like that's why that character was built in there. But how else are you going to explain some of the stuff to the audience? Yes, you know, so, yeah, I mean good character. Yeah. Oh I think I loved her a lot. Yeah, yeah, probably, I mean just didn't really you know, leave a huge impression on me. But I don't know. She gave me just a very like like white witch sage vibe in a story where you know, these children are just left to run rampant with you know, snakes and daggers and oh god, and read spell books and who knows what. No one knew where they were, nobody cared like that's why I don't know. Like I grew up in the eighties, that kind of fits a little more. In the nineties, my parents were cracking down. I was getting ready to graduate high school though, so they were like, oh, we better make sure she's straight, all right. So a segment that I absolutely love that we

37:32 do on the on this series, it's called Keeping It Real, and it goes like this. One of our favorite actors, Billy Zobka, was dominating dojo's high school cafeterias and college swimming pools in some of the best movies of the eighties. Then he's notably absent from Hollywood for most of the nineties. So the question is, what about zob replace one actor from this film with William Zabka. I have to go with Chris and have you I feel like that. I feel like it's the obvious answer. But you know, he can play that tough asshole that you can play that tough guy that you know everybody's afraid. We saw that in Karate Kid and stuff. But now you know in Cobra Kai we're seeing that sensitive side of him, that love puppy sad. Yes, even if it's under a spell. You know, I don't see him being the goofy like you said, puppy dog best friend.

38:32 What other male supporting characters do we really have, Well, here's what I'm thinking. How about him playing the Laura Lizzy character. Oh, and it would continue this kind of theme of these girls taking power from the men, And I think he could really be vulnerable, like his hair all starts falling out, and he's not the Golden Cuy anymore. I can see it. I wouldn't like it, though. I wouldn't like it because then I feel like we're going to start going down a path that I'm not a big fan of. If you listen to Black Christmas, we're all men are assholes, all of them, and then it becomes a women. Then it becomes a you know, women are powerful. They gain these powers and stuff to take it out on all the men that they know, like all men are evil and this and that. I love the fact that we have a female in here that's just rotten to the core. I love that. I love that, So I can set that's a good point. I can see your point, but I just I don't think i'd like the direction that would take because then it just becomes a man hating movie. Good point, Very nice.

39:51 All right? How about this sequel, prequel or remake? What would be your pitch? Which would you want? Not a remake? I can tell you that for they did that already too, yeah or effect. Yeah, And I didn't see that, so I don't I wouldn't watch this one either, especially in the times we're in now, because I feel like it would be very message heavy, very time, you know, side of the times, message heavy, and that has its it has its place, and I love the fact that some people appreciate that and they love it and stuff. If it's too heavy for me, it takes me out of it. I don't want to be scolded. I feel like our remake would do that, Like you said, maybe putting them, you know, where they just take revenge out on just the men that they know and all the men did them wrong, you know. I feel like that's the direction it would go in.

40:46 I am leaning more towards prequel, and it's funny you asked me about the shopkeeper because I feel like she has an interesting backstory. We are definitely on the same page. I was thinking prequel too, and I was thinking, wouldn't it be cool if we did teenage Lario and she knew Sarah's mom and they were like in a coven together. Okay, okay, that would be interesting. That would be interesting. That would be interesting. Feel like a little storytaled dust there, sprinkling, you know. We got a little Halloween two action going on where we write some stuff. But yeah, that could be interesting. Yeah, I think I'd be more interested just to see how she got into this and what she did with that nothing she had.

41:45 Yes, I don't even think it needs any other ties to this movie at all, just the idea of her exploring her power. And yeah, nobody would go see it except for me and you, but I still think it'd be interesting. I think it would be very interesting, absolutely, all right. Another thing we like to talk about on this series is DVD extras. So they put out a great Blu ray with a great transfer, it's got the director commentary, it's got I'm making up documentary documentary. I'm not sure about deleted scenes. There's only one real deleted scene that I know about that anybody talks about. Anyway, I'm thinking an audio commentary with the girls.

42:35 What do you think? Oh, that would be really interesting. Yeah, for just an extra on the DVD. Mm hmmm, Yeah, that would be That would be so interesting. I love audio commentaries though, because you get those behind the scenes stuff they forget to tell you, Like when they're doing an interviews and stuff, it's like, oh, nobody's gonna care about that, but then it comes up during the commentary, you know, and if people lose their you know, Oh, I didn't think you'd be interested in that, but you learn these different things that you wouldn't have learned otherwise. Yes, I'm fully on board with that. I think that would be very very interesting. Yeah. The first one I ever I remember listening to was for Fellowship of the Ring, okay, and those guys were so hilarious, Like all the actors that you know played the Fellowship, Oh my god, they were so funny and they just told the best stories. And I'm like, now, some of them it's hit or miss, but the ones that really, you know, get into it, I just think are so much fun. They are fun, you know. I mean my favorite series of all time, you know, our favorite movies of all time, the Friday the Thirteenth franchise. It's just my favorite, you know. And I could talk for hours and hours and I'm not going to sit here and say that I know everything there is to know about it, but kind of you know. But it's like the first time I watched the commentaries for those and stuff too, It's like the actors will just tell you little snippets and I'm like, holy grip, I never knew that, Like that's really interesting.

43:59 So yeah, I think there's I think there'd be some good stories to tell about this movie, Yes for sure. M all right, So how has this film aged over time? I feel like other than like we talked about, the glamour special effects are really bad low rush, But I think other than that, it holds up really well. I think it's still the themes and stuff are still very relevant, absolutely, And then you look at things like the fashion and the hairstyles, the makeup and stuff. Oh that's back. You know, walk in any hot topic, you know whatever, and it's like you're walking into this movie still nowadays. You still have the prepsters, you still have the you know, the outcasts. You still so in those terms, I think it's held up really well, really really well.

44:55 You know, you can say the same thing like about like sixteen Candles, you know, like it's any I feel like a lot of times when you're talking about movies that deal with high schoolers, that deal with different groups and high schoolers, those in general are going to hold up pretty well because you're always going to have those certain stereotypical groups, you know. So overall, I feel like it's held up pretty well. I think so too, And I think it's interesting. You know, we go to like the Renfest all the time, and you see these people that like grew up in that era and now are just like, we're adults, so we have money and this is where we're gonna throw and so it's kind of like watching the characters in this movie and now they're all grown up and they're still the same people that they were, you know, a little older, little wiser. But you know, in terms of themes too, you know, it's this you we're in the midst of this female empowerment right now, that's you know, going on that's really really big right now, and that is essentially what this movie is. So I feel like, not only is it held up well, but it was a how of its tight too, Yes, very much.

46:12 So I think, you know, you could have a good like Barbenheimer double feature, you know, watch the Barbie movie and then go a little darker, have a couple of cocktails, and throw on the Craft. You know, yep, yep, a little darker yep. And then it's hard to imagine what things would have looked like without this movie, because afterwards you just get this influx of you know, Witchcraft themed properties, you know, you get Charmed and practical Magic, and well they say Charmed is they say Charmed is just a direct ripoff of the Craft. No, I never watched Charmed, but I was loved Charmed, and I don't know why. They say.

46:57 It's just a lot of interesting stuff about it, you know, even down to the same songs like that. I guess the only song of charm is in this movie. But like, I feel like that was a nineties thing, like every TV show turned on had like that Dawson's Creek, you know, soundtrack, soundtrack, vibe going on. I didn't watch didn't watch that either, but not at all A shame to admit that I did watch it like two years ago, so you know, yeah, I mean I didn't watch, and it's just some of the stuff I was reading was interesting, you know. And we wouldn't have that if it wasn't for this movie, or maybe I would. Maybe we would because we had you know, nine inch Nails, we had rab Zombie, we had you know, the basically the second coming of Alice Cooper at this time, you know, quote unquote, you know, double worship type stuff, you know, So maybe I don't know, I don't know who's to say, well, thank you so much for joining me on this Lady's Night edition of a film buy.

48:06 I have loved talking the craft with you. It was fun. Now I have to go watch it again though, because I and as soon as that scene comes out, I know I'm gonna be like, oh, yeah, that's right. You're like, oh, yeah, you know. I do want to ask you Amber what you thought at the end of the movie though, before we close out, when Bonnie and Rachelle walk up to Sarah at the end and they give her that fake as apology, and I think that had one hundred percent to do with the fact that they don't have powers anymore. Yes, yeah, yeah, but it's like I thought for a second we were gonna get some kind of redemption arc. Yeah, they were gonna hug This movie was all about friendship all along, and these girls just lost their way. No, those girls are still not good people. So she was like, oh, trying to kill me. You're sorry for that?

48:57 Really, okay? I thought that was I just thought that was really interesting because in a movie where you know, for an hour it's nothing but friendship and laughter and love and you know, or sleepovers and yeah, exactly, like I thought, at the end, it's gonna be like, Okay, we're gonna send them out of the theaters with some warm fuzzies. Oh, I understand. It wasn't it was the Powers, it wasn't you Kumbaya. But no, it turned out these these two were not good people. I thought that was a ballsy move and it paid off. Well. I agree, but I feel like the lead is a little bit buried because I think Nancy's ending is so disturbing and so upsetting like that it kind of like throws you away from that whole conversation. The idea of her just being straight jacketed for the rest of her life and like totally bonkers is just nightmare fuel.

49:54 So I missed the softer punishment. I I didn't see it coming. I was like, oh, okay, I don't remember this, but that's good. I thought they were gonna be fine. I know, I really thought they were gonna tie a little pretty bow on it at the end, you know, over all fine, you know, all along it was only Nancy was horrible, and then reveal, oh no, they're actually all pretty terrible, like you know, the exception of Sarah, So yeah, although she was kind of like watch a stepper. I'll that's that's why I'm like ish so heavy on the ish. All right, Well, thank you everybody for listening, and if you want to learn more, please check out a film buy on social media and on our website, A film by podcast dot com My Camber. Did you watch the trailer for The Craft? No? Oh my god, you have to. It's the most nineties trailer you'll ever see in your life. It's even got the nineties trailer guy that talks like, oh I love him. You know you don't hold school. You know in the world? Right, is rady lost in your glue? This coll fucker