1996: The Phantom

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It was the mid nineties. Some
of us were a year or two

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out of high school and some of
us were a year or two into college.

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We didn't know who we wanted to
be, but we knew where we

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wanted to be the movie theater.
These are the movies of nineteen ninety six.

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What's up, everybody. I'm Jeff
Johnson from a Film by podcast and

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I'm hoping you're down for our latest
dope new series. We've broken down the

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fresh films of nineteen eighty six.
We've examined the gritty cinemascape of nineteen seventy

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six. Now it's time to check
out the Hella Good Flicks of nineteen ninety

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six. Joining me today is a
man I've come to appreciate as the authority

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on the Golden Age of cinema.
You'll find him on the Docking Base seventy

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seven podcast, and I'm betting he
knows more old Jungle things than the ghost

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who walks. Robert Burnett, Welcome
to nineteen ninety six. Angala, I

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stole out from the Tarzan movies.
I mean whatever you want it to me,

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and it's kind of an all purpose
word. All right, listen,

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I'll just go ahead and say this. I love this movie. I was.

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I knew that we were gonna cover
this on nineteen ninety six, and

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it was important to me that I
had someone that could appreciate it as well.

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And then out of nowhere, I
hear you on Docum Based seventy seven

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and you called out The Phantom and
you know as a movie that you that

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you enjoy it. What's that?
Was that the Top seven Crushes episode or

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which episode was it was? I
had a little thing for Billy for a

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while. Yeah, and and this
was definitely, if not the catalyst kind

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of the summation of hot Billy Zane
and uh so, yeah, I loved

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him in this the movie I like
yourself, love the movie as well.

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But he was It's a nice little
extra. Real quick, before we get

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started, Billy Zane shaved head or
Billy Zane full head of hair? We're

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talking dead calm, Titanic or is
it demon night? I got to say

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full hair, bull hair? All
right? You know, load is not

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bad, ball is not bad,
but pability I think I think he needs

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the hair. There's there's no wrong
answer with Billy Zane as far as I'm

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concerned. Well, I'll tell you
what. Listeners, Robert and I are

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ready to slam evil. It's time
to talk about the Phantom. He has

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been a symbol of justice for centuries, yet he is as mortal as any

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man. He is a descendant of
a legend that has endured for twenty generations,

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yet his identity remains a secret.
His power is legendary, but he

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is not supernatural. He has been
as the Ghost who Walks, the Guardian

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of the Dark, or simply the
Phantom. Kit Walker is the latest descendant

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in a long line of heroes known
as the Phantom, powered by the mystic

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Skulls. The ghost who walks rules
the African Jungles, striking fear into all

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evildoers. But when Xander Dracs,
a wealthy New York criminal, begins collecting

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the skulls to obtain their ultimate power, it's up to the Phantom to stop

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it. Robert, we always like
to start talking about how nineties culture influences

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film. Now clearly that is not
gonna be the case, right, I'm

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going to beg to differ a little
bit. I think the casting definitely calls

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out nineties. I mean the fact, okay, we have we have swamps,

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and then this, I mean,
I don't know that she worked outside

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of the nineties, did she?
Uh you know, We'll get to her.

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Yeah, yeah, I mean and
and and and and Bill Billy was

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all of a sudden he was hot
stuff after dead calm and was did This

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was one of his first, like
above the title sort of starring Roles So

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and they treat Williams had been coming
up for a while, and uh,

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I feel like not not not so
much the obviously the period of the film,

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but definitely the the casting. And
I also I think the nineties for

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me was kind of the last era
where we had I don't know, like

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mid level movies. I don't want
to call them B pictures because I think

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they all wanted to be A's.
But you know, we had these movies

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that were not super big budget spectaculars
like a Spielberg or Lucas, but they

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weren't just low budget stuff. They
were kind of this weird mid nit And

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I feel like this would definitely fall
in this category where it wasn't like a

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college movie, but it also wasn't
a Lucas production. Let me follow you

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into the Phantom's cave with that.
With that comment, So, following the

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blockbuster success of Batman in nineteen eighty
nine, Hollywood basically scrambling to meet the

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demand for more superhero films. But
the problem is that Warner Brothers is it

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ready to commit to a fifth Superman
with Christopher Reeve and Marvel, who ultimately

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declares bankruptcy in nineteen ninety six.
Robert, they're liquidating their film rights to

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every major studio, which still doesn't
help put well known superheroes on the silver

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screen because we're still several years away
from acceptable special effects to see them.

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So the void gets filled with a
wave of what I'd like to call Pulp

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era heroes from the you know,
like the days of radio. You're reading

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my note, you're reading my notes
even better. Yeah, No, I

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mean, yeah, you're still right. We had The Rocketeer which came out,

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and we had this, oh with
I think how Baldwin if I recall,

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right, and a bunch of movies
with these kind of like kind of

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well known if you were listening to
Grandpa's radio, you know, that kind

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of thing from the thirties and forties. But they were not Batman and Superman.

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They were not you know, the
Iron People we got from Marvel later

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on, you know. So yeah, along with that mid budget I think

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we have this kind of like b
list of superheroes. Yeah, from Pulp

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Well, I think so a little
earlier, I want to say, late

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seventies, early eighties. It was
even a Doc Savage movie that ought to

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be seen to be believed. It's
let's talk about the Big Four. Let's

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talk about the Big Four of the
Pulp era in the nineties. So,

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and you you mentioned a couple of
them already. I think we kick things

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off nineteen ninety. We get Dick
Tracy with Warren Baty. Oh you know

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kind of a passion project for baty
ninety one you mentioned The Rocketeer, which

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I happened to love. Nineteen ninety
four we get Alec Baldwin in the Shadow,

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and then ninety six we get the
Phantom. This is this is like

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your four pack of pulp, you
know, like you said listening to the

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radio, Grandpa's Radio, Robert,
you happen to have a favorite among these

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these big four. I really liked
the Rocket Shore as well. Okay,

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really enjoyed that film Shadow. I
saw it in the theater and I remember

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nothing about it. Nothing stuck.
So I mean I might have might have

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enjoyed it, but I've never gone
back to it, and it didn't.

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I didn't go see it again.
And Dick Tracy, that was big budget,

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you could tell, but it fell
flat for me. I had high

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hopes for it. I mean,
here we have Madonna, we have songs

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by Stephen Sondheim, who I love, we have you got Warren Bady in

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this and Paccino, and it just
it did not quite gel the way I

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thought it could have. So so
Rocket here and Phantom and my two standouts

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from our our quartet. I'm with
you that those are definitely the two standouts

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these movies. It puzzles me because
they didn't really make a lot of money

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at the box office. Uh,
and you know, well, let's just

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let's just jump to it. The
Phantom opens the same weekend as The Rock

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and debuts at number six, and
uh, listen to this, Robert.

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So you're opening weekend, you got
The Rock, Mission Impossible, Twister,

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Dragon Heart Eddie, which I don't
I don't understand at all. And then

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and then you've got you, You've
got You've got The Phantom debuting at number

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six. It seems like Paramount can't
even get out of their own way because

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you got Mission Impossible out there.
It's like, what are they doing?

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You know, you got Twister,
and then you've got all these big Disney

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movies like you know, The Rock
and and uh, I just don't understand

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if you if you put the I
feel like if you put the if you

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put the opening for this film a
few weeks ahead or a few weeks behind,

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it probably does some some serious money, wouldn't you think. Yeah?

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Yeah, I mean everybody was waiting
for Twister, Twister and The Rock a

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little bit, but I remember Twist
person, everybody was everybody I knew went

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and saw it opening weekend and something. People went back and saw it again.

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It was it was great and it
was marketed well. And uh,

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yeah, I'm surprised Phantom came in
six. Actually I did. I didn't

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dig that deep, but I know
it. Knew it did you know,

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lost money? But but I did
not know it was it was in the

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top ten. I would have guessed
lower. Yeah it Uh it ends its

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run with seventeen million dollars from a
budget of forty five million. Uh.

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You and I love this movie.
But uh the critics surprisingly you know,

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little mix. But overall, critics
loved the nostalgic tone, the old fashioned

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action, and optimistic disposition of Billy
Zane's performance. Uh, this is what

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you know. And anyone, Robert, anyone that's that's let's listening and thinking,

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these guys don't know what they're talking
about. That movie was not great.

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Roger Ebert gave it three and a
half stars, calling it, quote,

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one of the best looking movies in
a long time. Roger knows,

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Roger, Roger knows. Yeah,
Roger knows, Robert. I was kind

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of surprised when I kind of dug
into this. I was really surprised at

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some of the things I found out
about the making of this film. First

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attempt at making it happens in the
nineteen seventies with Adam West in the title

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role. What's going on that?
I get where they're going with that.

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You know, he's Batman up until
I want to say, nineteen sixty six,

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so we know he can play a
crime fighter with a cow but I

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don't get that. Fortunately, the
character rights couldn't be settled, so it's

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scrapped. A few decades later,
though, Joe Dante is attached to direct

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with a script he develops with Jeffrey
Bohm, who I'll remind our listeners Jeffrey

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Boone. He writes Indiana Jones in
the Last Crusade The Lost Boys Leave the

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Weapon two and three, among many
of his hits. I think this could

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have been an amazing film, but
Paramount delays production a full year, so

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Joe Dante leaves a project. Actually
found a quote Joe Dante talking about you

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know, his his interest in it
and ultimately leaving it. He says,

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I developed the script with the late
Jeff Bohm, who wrote Innerspace as a

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kind of a spoof. We were
a few weeks away from shooting in Australia

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when the plug was pulled over the
budget and the presence of a winged demon

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at the climax. If you didn't
know Robert the origin, the original script

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had a winged demon that the Phantom
was going to fight, which I don't

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know if that would have worked,
but not on this movie. Now,

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Yeah, continue with what Dante says. A year or so later, it

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was put back into production Sons Demon. Only nobody seemed to notice it was

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written to be funny, so it
was disastrously played straight. Many unintentionally funny

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moments were cut after a raucous test
screening, and I foolishly refused money to

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take my name off the picture,
so I'm credited as one of the mini

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producers. And see. I think
if if Dante had directed it, it

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would have been a much better picture. I put a lot of the blame

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for the failure of the film,
and even though I watch it at least

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once a year, the false are
all with the director. I think the

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cast game, I think that the
script is very funny, and I think

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the director is just Assimon Windsor.
I never even heard of him. I

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went and looked up his credits.
He did like Operation Dumbo Drop and Free

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Willy. He was not a tour
of any kind, and I think he

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kind of partly put his stakes through
the heart of this because the places that

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could have been light and sparkling that
Dante did so well in some of his

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films when you still can have fear
or excitement or menaced or whatever, but

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with that tongue in cheek thing windsor
just plods and to the detriment of the

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film. Uh So, I'm going
to agree with you that it is a

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better film if Joe Dante is directing. But to uh to defend winsor a

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little bit now you know you mentioned
Free Willie and uh an Operation Dumbo Drop,

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which you're not gonna find those two
of my collection. However, he

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did direct the nineteen eighty five classic
Daryl. He did the Lonesome Dove mini

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series in eighty nine, and what
I feel gets him this job. He

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directed a ton of the Adventures of
Young India Jones chronicles. Oh fair.

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I feel like the action scenes though, are some of the weeke weeke its

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parts, and that that that goes
hand in hand probably with the music which

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I know we'll be talking about too. But I uh, the the action

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scenes in this are not that same
adrenaline rush that you get in better movies

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they can be. I mean,
gosh, you know, a big,

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big truck driving over the rickety bridge. A it's a cliche, and I

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love that for it, you know, I love that we're doing all the

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tropes of the jungle, but it
just misses misses that that fun, exciting,

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stop eating popcorn, lean forward and
hold your breath to a dover quality

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do you get from the Indiana Jones
films and from other films in that era.

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And I just I don't know.
Maybe I ought to go back and

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look at some of Winter's other films, but I don't don't think he he

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pulled those scenes off as well as
he might have. I agree with you,

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you know what, you think?
This is an action adventure film.

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That's it's a superhero action adventure that
takes place in the nineteen late nineteen thirties.

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And to your point, I'm thinking
of two action scenes right now.

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The one that you mentioned the cargo
truck going over that rickety bridge, which

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I think that scene works perfectly because
when the thugs are like Wells, who's

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driving over that, not me?
Not me? And then they have like

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the ten year old boy who's their
guide doing it. So you get a

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00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.840
chuckle there and you go, Okay, well, we know he's going to

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make it across, but it's still
gonna be a little horring. But you're

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00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.320
right about that. Other than that, the only other scene I can think

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of is when the Phantom steals a
you know, he rescues Diana Palmer.

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They steal the plane and then the
plane has to you know, they're gonna

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do the classic Indiana Jones thing where
the plane is out of fuel, it's

209
00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.919
going to crash into the mountain.
But before that he's gonna jump from the

210
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.879
plane to his horse, who I
love. I love that horse named Hero,

211
00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.120
and then he's got to get Diana
Palmer and save her. It.

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00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.399
It's a fun action scene, but
that's it happened so early in the movie

213
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:48.159
that we should have got a big
climactic set piece and we really don't do

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00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:51.720
we Yeah, yeah, well,
And I think as an antion, I

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00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.320
think part of it is the score
too. The score of this film,

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00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.320
it to me is it's uninspired.
It just kind of it's proficient it's it's

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00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.319
adequate, it's not great. And
you know, David Newman is from that

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00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:10.319
dynasty that it goes back to Warner
Brothers in the thirties and up till Randy

219
00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:14.599
Newman, who's still I think he
might still be writing songs. But and

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and David was just not not the
Newman who had all the talent. I

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guess this score and even his filmography. He did lots of b pictures and

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lots of busy work and stuff and
and uh, and yet you know,

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his dad, Alfred Newman, did
some of the greatest films Hollywood ever had.

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I mean, he did Bothering Heights, he did Anastasia, the original,

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not the cartoon, How the West
Was Won, I mean, How

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Green was My Valley? All these
classic films, and then we get David

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who is kind of doing busy chase
music. And so again it's hard not

228
00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:53.960
to compare the Dandiana Jones. But
I think about the rousing John Williams score

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and how it elevates all the scenes
in those movies. And and to your

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point of out the cargo truck,
you know, the Frances part trucks,

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it's just the music. I even
watch the scene. It again and really

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listen to the music as well,
and what we it it. It's passable,

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00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.799
but it's just not inspired. It's
not exciting in the way that could

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have elevated what they had even more. You the word you use the word

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adequate to describe David Newman, and
I think that is a great word,

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because he is. He's that guy
when it comes to composers. Yeah.

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Uh, you know, he's got
over one hundred credits and truthfully, and

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I've seen a lot of his work. I've seen a lot of the films

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that he's worked on, but the
only the only one I could I could

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I could hear in my mind,
Like when I'm looking at that I'm looking

241
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.000
at the titles that he's worked on. I saw that he composed the music

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for Galaxy Quest, and I can
hear that music in my mind. But

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00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.599
I just watched The Phantom and I
can't hear the Phantom music. Yeah,

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00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:02.400
and that's a that's a serious problem. A superhero movie. A hero has

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00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.240
to have a theme, you know. You think you think if if I

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00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:10.599
say Batman or I say Superman,
we immediately hear Danny Elfman's score. We

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immediately hear John Williams. I don't
hear who the Phantom is. No,

248
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.240
And you're absolutely right, David Newman, not not the not the not the

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best Newman for the job. I
have to agree with you wholeheartedly. I'll

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tell you what. We're gonna take
a quick break and when we get back,

251
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Robert, we gotta we gotta get
behind the scenes on this one and

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00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:36.279
UH and talk about some of the
fun stuff. Welcome back to nineteen ninety

253
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six. Robert Burnette and myself.
We're talking about the Phantom. One thing

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00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.960
about winsor though back to back to
Winster real quick. I will give him

255
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.599
credit for one thing, you know, because he did have He happens to

256
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.880
be a huge fan, you know, the Phantom was a childhood hero of

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00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.759
his. So he comes in all
you know, beaming, he's he's ready

258
00:19:55.799 --> 00:20:00.200
to go. He also looks at
the shooting locations and decides to to move

259
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.359
it from Hawaii to UH to Thailand, which ends up saving the budget like

260
00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:10.720
twelve million dollars, so which which
helped I'll step those losses. Yeah,

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00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:17.839
huge help. And Robert, Thailand
is not the only exotic location. The

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00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.000
Palmer Mansion, Diana's house. Yeah, that's that's actually the Playboy mansion.

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Oh you're kidding. That's great.
No, Yeah, I love I love

264
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.240
when you know, when when you
see this stuff like that happened. You

265
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.960
know, obviously this is this is
the the eighties and nineties. Half is

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any chance he gets to you,
you can see the mansion on in a

267
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.960
movie, or they can visit the
mansion. It's it's always gonna happen.

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00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:45.759
I'm surprised we did not get you
know, stately Wayne manor that house was

269
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.240
used so often for things, and
it was right it's right up the street

270
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.519
from where he half lives, so
would have been great. Well we didn't

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00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:52.359
see that one, but I guess, you know, maybe maybe they were

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00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.359
keeping that in their back pocket.
I guess. So it was funny.

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The movie was really really well promoted
too. As I mentioned in the Top

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00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.240
seven Questions episode, billis Ain did
a gott milk ad that was in all

275
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.599
the magazines as the Phantom. So
there he is, remember that purple outfit

276
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:18.680
with his glass of milk and his
milk mustache. The theaters all had the

277
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.440
popcorn buckets, and the toy stores
had some toys, and of course there

278
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.039
was a set of collectible cards,
which I have, but I set of

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00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:32.319
collectible cards. Uh wait, now, are these are wait, I'm sorry

280
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:33.960
to cut you off. Is are
these like lobby cards? Are these like

281
00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:40.839
tops Trading cards? Because I know
Tops Trading cards? Oh? I love

282
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.519
it. Yeah, I have,
I got them all. I have the

283
00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:47.640
foil Chaser cards that makes the big
picture of Phantom on Hero and I have

284
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:49.960
all the all those when we get
to casting. I have a funny little

285
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.680
blur buff on one of the cards. But yeah, I love this.

286
00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.440
Yeah, yeah. I can't tell
you how how many times I had to

287
00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.440
go back to my comic book store
and buy three more pass to see if

288
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.960
I can get all the cards,
you know. But I think, I

289
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.559
think one of the best promotions that
they do for this film, aside from

290
00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:15.839
Billy Zane to a Milk Milk commercial, Milk ads, Metal replica Phantom rings

291
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:19.480
are passed out at several theater chains
when this movie comes out. I wanted

292
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.759
one so bad and I tried to
trick my friend into going up to Westwood

293
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.400
with me, which was kind of
a drive from where every wave to one

294
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.720
of the big theaters up there,
and they did not go. And I

295
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:36.759
was a little little peevish about that
afterwards. But yeah, they even I

296
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:38.680
said they had like a popcorn bucket
in the theater and all this stuff going

297
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:44.039
on without in that movie. Uh, they're high hopes. Obviously they did

298
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:51.039
not did not come true. Well, looking at the principal roles, obviously

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00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:56.279
we got to start with Billy Zane, who is kit Walker, better known

300
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.519
as the Phantom, better known as
the Ghost who Walks. I love the

301
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:04.559
fact that he becomes a fan of
the comic while he's shooting Dead Calm in

302
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:11.359
nineteen eighty nine, he beats out
Bruce Campbell for the role, which let's

303
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.839
stop and think for a second.
Bruce Campbell as the Phantom, how great

304
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:17.599
would that have been. I'm not, no, no disrespect of mister Zein

305
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:21.119
Robert, but Bruce Campbell is the
Phantom would have been a different movie.

306
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I mean, you need, you
need Sam Raimi, you'd need like it

307
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.400
would be a whole other thing.
It'd be a great thing, but it

308
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:32.160
would not be this thing. Much
as I like Campbell and Briscoe County,

309
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.559
the TV show he did the Western, I don't think that he had the

310
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.359
right tone, like a period peace
like this. I don't know if he

311
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.079
could have pulled that off without being
super winky and funny in a way that

312
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.599
would have worked against any any kind
of sincerity they were trying to get out

313
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.799
of the movie. I think with
Campbell you're getting a much more tongue in

314
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.200
cheek superhero, almost almost a parody
if you will. H Yeah, but

315
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.400
this, this next little tidbit,
this, this might have helped land Billy

316
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.319
Zane on your your Top seven celebrity
crush lists from docum Base seventy seven.

317
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:15.240
He spends a year working out to
play the phantom, and he gets so

318
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.319
buff that he can't fit into the
padded suit that they have created for him,

319
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.519
because they've got like Batman just came
out in eighty nine. So the

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00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.720
idea is like, hey, here's
a rubber suit. It's it's we've got

321
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.279
fake muscles, the fake muscle padding
padded into it. You'll look fantastic.

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00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:37.880
Zay shows up. They have to
remove the fake muscle padding to make it

323
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:42.200
fit. So what you see on
screen that's Zane. I mean he's And

324
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:48.920
what's hilarious about that is it's a
standards of male beauty. I guess is

325
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:55.119
by today's standards, he's not really
ripped. He's not all muscle. You

326
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:57.200
will see. I mean, put
him against I don't know, Zach Frenn

327
00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:02.160
or whoever that the shirt list wonder
is of this year, and Billy just

328
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.160
looks kind of, you know,
better than an average Joe. But he

329
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:08.839
is not you know what we would
call he could not pass with that body

330
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:12.079
today in that role, they would
have get somebody twice as buff. And

331
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.920
that isn't that isn't that. I
feel like that's just tragically sad though,

332
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.519
right, oh, it is when
you see. I mean, he looks

333
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.960
phenomenal in the film, and to
your point, yeah, he's not.

334
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.200
He doesn't have like like that Chris
Evans Captain America aesthetic. Yeah, he

335
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.440
does have like that Christopher Reeve Superman
look well. And I think that I'm

336
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.839
going to jutify it and say for
the period, he looks great. I

337
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.079
mean, if you ever see any
movies from the thirties and there's you know,

338
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.920
Randolph Scott jumping into a swimming pool
or Johnny Weissmoller and the Tarzan movies.

339
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:51.200
To hark back to those agains,
they were not all bulging in viny

340
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.519
like our you know, with zero
body fat like our guys have now.

341
00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.480
Zaye looks like a muscular man probably
would look in the thirties, and judging

342
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.759
sm other films in that era versus
our standard is now, which is unrealistic

343
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:08.680
and probably not even healthy, you're
absolutely right. Uh. One other fun

344
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:15.200
fact about Zaying he begins shaving his
head when he takes on the role of

345
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.839
the Phantom, so that the phantom's
cow will fit as close as possible.

346
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.839
I know exactly what he's what he's
talking about, obviously, Robert, I

347
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:27.079
shaved my head so my cow fits
as close as possible. But I mean

348
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.960
talking about dedication. I thought that
was you. I thought that was what

349
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.319
the mask. Yeah, no,
I I like the dedication because, like

350
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.960
you know, a year the year
before, you know, when you see

351
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.400
him dead, calm, you see
him entirely anything you see him in before

352
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.039
this, even even Critters in eighty
six, he has got a full thick

353
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.759
head of hair. And this is
the era, this is this is the

354
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.400
movie. This point up to a
point. I'm thinking that there might have

355
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:56.039
been some some two pays earlier than
we know what we think. I'm just

356
00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:00.920
saying, Okay, I wonder I
don't not a judgment, you know,

357
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.240
it is what it is. But
but yeah, I think the whole Oh

358
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.720
I shaved my head for the movie. I think that was a terrific out

359
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.759
for him. And if that's what
he's saying, I'll believe it. Hey,

360
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.400
all I know is I dig it. You know. As soon as

361
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:15.720
like, you know, he shows
up in like Demon Night, I was

362
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.720
like, holy shit, Billy's am
shaved head. He looks like a badass.

363
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.359
Like, yeah, I'm a fan. After that, I'm definitely a

364
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:30.839
fan of Christy Swanson. She's playing
Diana Palmer. Now here's something a lot

365
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:34.119
of our listeners that if they if
they were listening to our nineteen eighty six

366
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.519
series, then they already know Christy
kind of arrived in a big way in

367
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.039
nineteen eighty six. She had She
had small roles in Pretty and Pink,

368
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.480
in Ferris Bueler's Day Off. Then
she takes the lead role in a really

369
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.480
creepy West Craven movie called Deadly Friend. A couple years later, it's nineteen

370
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.440
ninety two, she breaks out with
Buffet the vampire Slayer, but Robert,

371
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.400
she never really goes on to bigger
roles, Like what, why know that

372
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.000
that was my thing? I had
honestly forgotten the actress's name until I pulled

373
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.079
it, you know, pulled it
out to watch again for this episode,

374
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.680
and went, well, whatever happened
to her? You know, I just

375
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.000
she was why I kind of brought
her up as a why is this the

376
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:21.039
nineties influence? Well, definitely casting, and she's really good. She's really

377
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.720
good. I would have liked to
have seen her do more, but I

378
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.720
honestly don't know what else she'd done
since. And even when I tried zoom

379
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.960
in through IMDb, I did not
recognize a lot of the things or I

380
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.960
didn't recognize who she was in that
so it's strange. Still working, but

381
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.880
she Yeah, she's still working.
She's actually she's uh, she's doing a

382
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:45.279
lot of the conventions now, you
know, kind of kind of champion the

383
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:47.640
whole Buffy the Vampire Slayer. A
lot of the fans, the fan base

384
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:51.440
loves to you know, meet meet
her, get get her autographed. But

385
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:56.079
after after Buffy the Vampire Slayer ninety
two, you would have assumed that she

386
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.640
breaks out into this, you know, this stardom like where she could have

387
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.319
been like America's sweetheart, like a
Sondra Bullock. Is what I'm thinking,

388
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.480
yeah, absolutely, and I don't
know what's going on. But and she

389
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.240
has steadily worked, she has never
not been working, but she kind of

390
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.119
goes down this road of television movie. She falls into the Hallmark trap,

391
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.880
I think for a little while.
And lately there's a lot of it's a

392
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.160
lot of B movies, a lot
of directive video stuff, and I don't

393
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.720
understand that because she is such a
talented actress. Well Is Aim was kind

394
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.039
of the same way. I mean, he had his little run in the

395
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.599
nineties, probably popping out with Titanic, and then he did kind of never

396
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.640
with the next big thing either.
He kept being poised to be but he

397
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:44.240
never quite never quite broke through for
whatever reason. And to where now all

398
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:48.279
of a sudden it is still working, but lots of B pictures and television

399
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:52.720
guest spots and voiceovers, but not
you know, anything where it's a Billie's

400
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.440
Aye film. This I mean,
you know, we know that he signs

401
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.880
a three picture deal. The Phantom
supposed to be a trilogy, and if

402
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.319
this one would have been successful,
we would have got that. I feel

403
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:08.960
like Billy Zaying leading the Phantom.
A year later, he is he's in

404
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:15.519
Titanic So to your point, again, he should have shot to like superstardom

405
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.079
as far as I'm concerned, we
should have seen a lot more of him,

406
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.440
but he kind of goes to the
route of direct the video stuff,

407
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.559
you know, straight to you know, I don't know. I just don't

408
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:32.119
understand because he's such a talented actor
too. I don't get it. I

409
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.279
don't get this cat like to you
said it like, you know, it

410
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.480
is nineties culture because we've got Billy's
same, We've got Christy Swanson and I'm

411
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:41.960
just the mystery here is is not
the mystic skull so much. It is

412
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.480
as it is. Why didn't these
two just explode in popularity? Yeah?

413
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:51.279
And they have great chemistry together,
Oh gosh, yes, I mean I

414
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:55.240
would have loved them in a sitcom, you know, put the two of

415
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:59.960
them on some TV thing every week
where he the grumpy boss and she's gonna

416
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.039
tell him, I mean, whatever
it's going to be. It would have

417
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.519
been great because they had a lot
of chemistry between them. But it just

418
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:11.000
maybe it didn't didn't take with other
people they did this film, What did

419
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:12.599
you think? What did you think
of Treat Williams. He's he's playing our

420
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:18.720
heavy Uh, he's Xander Drax the
he is the wealthy criminal that's that's out

421
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.640
to get world world domination, in
power, who has one of the funniest

422
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.680
lines when he's like having to spell
his name out in the middle of this

423
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:32.319
this intense thing is Xander x A. And yeah, I've always loved Treat

424
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.519
Williams. I first discovered him in
nineteen eighty one in Hair, which was

425
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:42.200
in my my top seven of eighties
movies. On that other podcast, Uh,

426
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.319
you can said, it's the it's
the documents. Yes, yeah,

427
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.240
shut him out. We get a
dollar every time we say it. And

428
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:56.000
I know I've always enjoyed him a
lot. I think he's so interesting and

429
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.319
loved him in this because he he
hit the tone well, actually the way

430
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.799
all the principles did, but he
hit the tone just right between believable bad

431
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.839
guy but also a little silly,
a little campy, a little little little

432
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:14.680
over the top that that humorous element. And he was so versatile. I

433
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.359
mean he did musicals and he did
dramas, and he was on with Everwood

434
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.319
I think it was called or something
a Dienery show where he was like the

435
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:28.400
really nice dad for a bunch of
seasons and he can play jerks and gangsters.

436
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.279
He was so versatile and he unfortunately
we just recently lost him and too

437
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:37.599
too young, but thought he was
great in this movie. He he gave

438
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:44.240
it a really nice, nice,
nice tone that made made you afraid of

439
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.079
him. But also he was just
kind of silly. I I feel like

440
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:52.319
he really he is chewing up the
scenery. He's obviously having a blast,

441
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.480
you know, he dials it up
to eleven. He's goofy, but he

442
00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.920
like to your you know, like
you said, he he's still there's some

443
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.119
minutes to him, Like the scene
where he uses the microscope. Yeah,

444
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.200
that is I love. I gotta
I gotta call that scene out real quick

445
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:15.440
because it is such a a hitchcock
vibe where we know what's going to happen

446
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.759
with his microscope, and then this
poor guy from the library walks in and

447
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.839
he's I want you to just check
some about and we're like, don't do

448
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.279
it, don't do it, like
the whole time, like they're talking about

449
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.920
you know, Xander's like, hey, does anyone know what I'm researching?

450
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.759
No, No, I don't tell
anybody, And you're like, don't look

451
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:36.799
in the microscope. And I love
the fact that we get that quick split

452
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.519
second where he gets to see the
word liar. Yeah, before the before

453
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:45.319
the needles, you know, shoot
into his eyeballs. It's oh, it's

454
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.880
it's it's harrowing. Well well Williams, Yeah, well Williams, I think

455
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.680
you we said goofy, and I
think that's a great word for him because

456
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:58.759
he's got that that very impetuous grin, and he's not tall, and he

457
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:04.160
got kind of a high ish pitched
voice for for a film leading man type,

458
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.559
and all those things he uses them
really well to where when he need

459
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:14.320
to be menacing and dramatic, he
can be, but he leans into it

460
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.440
a little bit and it just made
him just just super fun. Yeah,

461
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.360
he's I think a lot of times
you get a villain like this, they're

462
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:29.559
they're kind of dark and brooding.
He is very charismatic. Yeah, he's

463
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.320
always got a big smile on his
face. He's always he's he's almost like

464
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.400
a Gene Hackman Lex Luthor from seventy
eight Superman. Yeah, he's just he's

465
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:43.159
just there to just be a gentleman. But but he's also gonna take over

466
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:45.960
things and he's gonna murder you if
you get in his way. I love

467
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:52.639
what he's doing here. I honestly
do. Robert in one of the the

468
00:34:52.679 --> 00:35:00.840
better, uh better examples of cameos
and or before they were famous extras,

469
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:12.000
Catherine Zita Jones, I know I
mentioned before the trading card set, says,

470
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.599
so I dug them out, and
you know, after the usual sixty

471
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.320
or seventy cards that give the plot
of the film, and there's always shots,

472
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.039
cards that have shots that weren't in
the final release, and you're like,

473
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:27.559
oh, I wonder what that was
for. But they have cast cards

474
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.519
and Billie zan gets too. One
is kit Walker, and one is the

475
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.599
Phantom, and then there there's there's
Christie Swanson and then we get Treat Williams.

476
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:39.159
Catherine Data Jones' card is number seventy
nine. She comes after after read

477
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.480
this chat punk Petlore, who played
Zach who was the little young guy who

478
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:49.119
drove the truck at the opening sequence. Zeta Is. Her card comes after

479
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:53.519
his. She's the last cast member
who gets her own card, and they

480
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:58.840
describe her as Catherine Zida Jones,
one of the hot new British actresses,

481
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.519
stars as this Polk Street flyer.
She was on the big screen in Splitting

482
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:07.679
spitting no splitting, splitting hairs.
Some of her TV credits include Darlene Buds

483
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.719
of May and The Young Indiana Jones
Chronicle, which might be how she got

484
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.000
in this but yeah, she is
fully formed Catherine in this movie. Though,

485
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:22.239
my gosh, that is exactly how
she gets into this picture. You

486
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:24.719
know, you know earlier you said, hey, Idam, I don't know

487
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.719
if you know Winsor, I don't
know how you got this job. Remember,

488
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:34.880
Winsor directs I want to say,
maybe nine or ten different episodes of

489
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:39.320
the Adventures of Young Indina Jones,
and he happened to work with her on

490
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:46.519
one of those episodes. So before
before he's on board, we got two

491
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:55.119
women going after this role. Robert. We have Playboy playmate Jenny McCarthy and

492
00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:00.960
and and Jennifer Lopez. They are
auditioning for this role. Catherine Zena Jones

493
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:06.800
ultimately takes and when Winsor comes on
board, he says, nope, it's

494
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:10.480
it's I've already got her, and
it's Catherine Zita Jones. So without Windsor,

495
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:15.960
we don't get Catherine Zita Jones.
And you gotta wonder, do we

496
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.159
get Catherine Zita Jones at all if
not for windsor because two years later she

497
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:24.000
blows up the superstardom with the mask
of Zoro in ninety eight. So I

498
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.840
kind of feel like this was like
the the point, you know, you

499
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.079
like you said, this is fully
formed Catherine Ceda Jones. She is fantastic

500
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:35.719
in this role. I don't have
diaries or anything to back me up,

501
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:37.440
but I remember when I came out
of this film, I was like,

502
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.079
that woman's going to be a star. I mean, she just was gorgeous

503
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.760
and just stunning to look at and
just so commanding and charismatic on screen.

504
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.880
I was like, we're going to
see a big thing is from her.

505
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.920
And it was funny because the next
thing I remember seeing her in was a

506
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:59.880
TV Titanic film, So she and
she and Billy that Bond of titan Yeah,

507
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.159
she was in a Titanic made for
TV movie. I think, I

508
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:06.320
want to say Peter Gallagher was in
it and a bunch of people. But

509
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.719
it was a couple of years later
and she was in that as well.

510
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:13.880
Had no idea and of course the
thing that's funny and and you know she's

511
00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.760
she's still working now. She was
keeping that adventure action thing going She was

512
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:22.360
in the National Treasure TV series that
just lasted the season and was an arch

513
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:27.480
villain and that really good. But
she she's been working in England for ten

514
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.719
years, and like so many of
my favorites, came out of musical theater

515
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.840
and England was her background. But
then she was pretty enough she got cast

516
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:39.440
in TV and films there, but
she was tired of being cast as the

517
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:45.480
pretty girl or the beautiful one in
these things. So she basically left England,

518
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.760
came to America to start a career
over and then ended up being you

519
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:53.519
know, this hot aviatrix in The
Phantom. But but she pulled it off

520
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:59.599
so well. She went to delightful
in this movie. She's a fantastic theme

521
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:05.320
fatale. And I gotta be honest, man, I'm watching it and she

522
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.599
clearly is all about Billy Zane.
She's all She's all about the Phantom,

523
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:14.480
right her character. And I'm sitting
there watching and I'm like, kid,

524
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.320
what are you doing? Like it's
Katherine Zida Jones, and all due respect

525
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:22.079
to Christy Swanson, but that's no
contest for me, Robert. It's Catherine

526
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.719
Jones all the way. I'm gonna
I'm gonna detO it that a little bit.

527
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:34.079
I got this whole like she and
her little troop of lesbian abas in

528
00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:37.199
this movie. Yeah, I thought
that that. I mean, and the

529
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.559
way I even watching it again,
I was kind of trying to read it

530
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:45.159
that way. It's I think her
whole chasing after Billy Sing is just her

531
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:49.800
being kind of spiteful and funny.
I don't think. I don't know if

532
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.320
and she's partly doing it to piss
off you know, Dianah Walmer, good

533
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:57.760
point. But but but also I
just think it's like it's like funny and

534
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:00.960
it's a game to her, Okay, I mean, or you know,

535
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.639
maybe maybe she does want him to. But but I mean as soon as

536
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.480
I see oh this this you know, statue as woman in the cat suit

537
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:13.199
and in her army of female pilots, You're going lesbians. I mean that

538
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:17.760
did anybody can see that? And
I do not, uh no matter how

539
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.960
much you don't want it to be. I I just thought it was a

540
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.480
great, a great thing. All
they needed with German accents and they would

541
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:29.719
have just been hilarious. But the
but I I I read it is that,

542
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:37.800
and I think she Zida Jones plays
it so like smirkingly and smugly that

543
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:42.000
it gives it a layer. And
I think that layer is she doesn't want

544
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:46.639
Billy. She's just messing with everybody
could entertaining to her. I love that

545
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.559
whole seat, that whole sequence where
they're on they're on the ship. I

546
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.760
think that's some of Billy's Aye's better
moments in this movie, because when he

547
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:59.719
busts in, ready to ready to
just knock heads, and then he sees

548
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.920
there's there's all these these uh these
women in undergarments, the look of confusion

549
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:09.840
on his face priceless. But then
it also like right before you go,

550
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:14.199
okay, he's here, right before
you're ready to settle in that he's gonna

551
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:19.280
be kind of a goofy hero.
He has that great moment where he jumps

552
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.239
in, you know, he lands
through the laundry shoot ready to save Christy

553
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:27.280
Swanson and uh, Catherine c to
Jones has the gun and he just calmly,

554
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:28.880
he's not even looking at her,
and he's like, you know,

555
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:30.480
there's an whole jump of saying,
uh, never point a gun nless you're

556
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.440
planning to use, and he like
snatches it with I mean, look like

557
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:37.519
the noe looks snatch it out of
her hand and her look of surprise where

558
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:39.679
like she's like, Wow, this, this guy's good. I love I

559
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:43.440
love that whole the whole sequence,
the whole, the whole thing is is

560
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:49.119
just fantastic. I think, Yeah, yeah, Robert, let's take let's

561
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:53.320
take one last break, and when
we get back it'll be time for keeping

562
00:41:53.360 --> 00:42:00.960
it real. Listeners, we are
back, and it is time to keep

563
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:07.239
it real, Robert first time on
nineteen ninety six. There are three questions

564
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.039
we're going to discuss, and we're
going to start with my favorite, one

565
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:17.960
of our favorite actors. Billy Zopka
was dominating Dojo's high school cafeterias and college

566
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.519
swimming pools in some of the best
movies in the nineteen eighties. Then he's

567
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:29.000
notably absent from Hollywood for most of
the nineties. So the question is,

568
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:36.719
what about zob replace one actor from
this film with William Zobka. What do

569
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.519
you got? I would make him
one of Quill's henchmen, not Quill,

570
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.599
remarked, or get a good job
as Quill, but one of the henchmen,

571
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.840
you know, in those early scenes
on the truck and all that messing

572
00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.079
around. I think that would be
a good role for him. He could

573
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:58.079
do maybe some martial arts stuff and
some action and then be gone, Wow,

574
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.559
Okay, So saying, maybe take
a I do Casey. Casey to

575
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:07.880
Moscow is one of the henchmen in
the earlier scenes. James, Yeah,

576
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:09.440
any of them. Just just you
can you can you can rode him in

577
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.760
for that. Well, I'm I'm
going a lot bigger here, man.

578
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.760
Uh for me, this is a
this is it's a no brainer. Uh,

579
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:23.480
I'm trading Billy for Billy. Zopka
looked amazing. Yes, hold on,

580
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:28.679
hear me out now. Zopka looked
amazing in the skeleton costume and karate

581
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.559
kid. Just imagine what he looks
like as the Phantom. And then and

582
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:36.159
then on top of that, the
Phantom, you know, we've we've got

583
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.960
the the guns and we've got the
punches, but now we we we're gonna

584
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:45.199
throw in karate. On top of
that, the ghost who walks is kicking

585
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:47.599
some major ass. If we're gonna
need somebody to make a deep fake of

586
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:50.960
this, we need we need to
get some ai going. And just like

587
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:55.159
superimposed Billy's face on Billy's face,
and and and and see how that turns

588
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.599
out I might be in for that. I'll tell you. I'll tell you

589
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:00.880
this to Robert, I met,
I met. I had the pleasure of

590
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:07.639
meeting William Zaka last year. The
guy is in phenomenal shape. He could

591
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.320
play the phantom today if you wanted
to, he could do it today.

592
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.199
I'm telling you the guy I lead
into our next little bullet points right,

593
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.079
It's okay that way you're heading.
Well, I'm ahead and there. But

594
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.400
let's see what you have to say. Next question, sequel, prequel or

595
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:28.360
remake, Robert, if you controlled
this ip, what would be your pitch

596
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:32.920
to the studio to revive it?
Well, borrowing time travel and actually getting

597
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.159
those two sequels that they wanted with
treat Williams and and Billion fifteen and all

598
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:44.559
that, I would say probably a
remake. And I'm not usually a fan

599
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:50.519
of remakes, but I think there's
a lot of value in this property and

600
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.280
a lot of ways you could go
where it wouldn't be a scene by scene

601
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.039
or a beat by beat remake,
but just taking the characters, taking the

602
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.440
vibe and atmosphere of the film,
and making something new for it. All

603
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:07.079
right, I'm with you on a
remake And and here's where, here's where

604
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:09.360
I'm gonna go with it. And
I'm gonna I'm gonna give you some I'm

605
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:13.119
gonna give you I'm gonna give you
the cast on top of that. So

606
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:17.719
I want to do like a legacy
remake that doesn't it doesn't ignore the nineteen

607
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.119
ninety six Phantom. It's just we're
we're kind of it's it's another one,

608
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:23.920
right, whether you whether you call
it a sequel or a remake, it's

609
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:30.000
kind of both. But I want
a new I want a new Phantom with

610
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:34.199
Daniel Radcliffe. And if you have
seen him lately, he is he is

611
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.079
shredded. He is superhero shredded.
Uh. I know there's been a lot

612
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.119
of rumors. We we we even
talked about it on on this show,

613
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.639
about him possibly being the next Wolverine. It's not gonna happen. I would

614
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:47.400
love to see what he could do
with a role like the Phantom. But

615
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.679
he doesn't have the right face,
you don't think so. No, he

616
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.960
is not square jawed. He is
not you know, he doesn't have a

617
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.280
profile. You need that leading man
thing that that any everybody from you know,

618
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:07.119
Carrie Grant to Harrison Ford has Cliff
is a great actor. He's so

619
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:13.480
versatile, very lovable and likable,
but he does not read as a leading

620
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:20.079
man, as as a hero and
and so uh no, but I'm not

621
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:25.000
I'm I'm gonna think about that now
and and see. And of course I'm

622
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:29.320
always voting for somebody new in this
kind of role. Where where you launch

623
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.239
somebody. I mean, Harrison Ford
was obviously on his way up, but

624
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:37.559
I mean for for his film.
But somebody, somebody knew who is talented

625
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.079
and and good looking and and that
kind of retro thing, they could pull

626
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:47.400
it up. But Daniel Daniel could
could replace Treat Williams. Well, I've

627
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.760
got I've got to treat. I've
got someone for Treat Williams too. And

628
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:52.000
I think it's perfect. I think
of you might. I'm just trying to

629
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:58.960
find a place for Daniels he well
whose Well, I'll tell you real quick.

630
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:01.159
You want talented, you want good
looking, you want up and coming.

631
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:06.599
This guy is doing all of that
already. How about how about Glenn

632
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:09.800
Powell. You know we saw him
in Top Gun, Maverick. He's in

633
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:15.079
Twisters coming out this uh this,
this, this summer interesting. That might

634
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:19.840
work, Okay, okay, that
might work. Uh might have to recast

635
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:23.880
now, uh if you're almost like
Glenn Powell. I I had I had

636
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:30.000
uh for for Diana Palmer and uh
Sayla and I don't care which one does

637
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:36.000
which, but I was looking at
mea goth and Selena Gomez. Interesting.

638
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.079
What do you think about that?
I would I would put Selena at Diana

639
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:45.360
though, That's what That's what I
was thinking. Mia, Yeah, but

640
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:50.559
I think I think it'd be fun
to see her at Diana. Okay,

641
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:55.519
are you ready for Xander? Yes? Chris Pine? Oh yeah, he

642
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.800
was great? Oh yeah, I
think so. And then this one,

643
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:05.320
I know you're gonna love. Uh
bringing back Billy Zaine as the ghost of

644
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:09.039
Kid's father remember Cave. Yeah,
he's got it's gotta be It's gotta be

645
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:15.000
Zay so or or Billy Zain could
be himself. I mean the phantom is

646
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:21.679
mortal spoiler Yeah, so so uh, Daniel or whomever uh could be the

647
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:27.119
current ghost too, Walks and Zay
could play the dad. Uh. So

648
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.760
this this would be the this current
Phantom would be the grandson of the one

649
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.400
that was in uh the film we
saw? Okay, I like that?

650
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.480
Yeah? Does does the father have
to be deceased? Does he have to

651
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.199
be a ghost? Like I feel
like he could maybe maybe he's at home,

652
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:44.920
you know, well, yeah he's
retired. They suggest that that,

653
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:47.920
and then they don't say, but
they I'll I'll chuck the back of all

654
00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:52.880
my trading cards. Maybe there's more
depth, but they I think that.

655
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.000
My my take on it was that
that like when one phantom dies, the

656
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:01.039
son steps into his shoes, right, yeah, yeah, it takes the

657
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:09.519
cowl and I so I feel like
Dad retiring just seems a little weird when

658
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:14.199
you've already been the phantom, Okay, And honestly, with all they go

659
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:16.039
through, they can't and they're not
they're not immortal, and they're not magical

660
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:20.480
really. I mean, they have
the rings, but they they don't.

661
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:22.440
They probably don't have a long shelf
life. You know. I'm not guessing

662
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:28.039
you can be a phantom into your
sixties realistically, because someone are going to

663
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.719
whack you with something and you're going
to die. Yeah. Well, let's

664
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:36.760
the let's talk DVD extras. So
in nineteen ninety six, the DVD format

665
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:40.360
is initially introduced to the US markets, and while the simplicity of the compact

666
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:45.800
disc pleased US, the high definition
wowed us and has us tossing out our

667
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:50.760
VHS tapes, But Robert, for
centophiles like you and me, those exclusive

668
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.639
special features were usually a no frills
package of scene selection, French and Spanish

669
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:59.639
subtitles. If you were lucky,
you got a trailer. So my question

670
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:04.400
to you, what DVD extra would
you want on your DVD of this film.

671
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.199
You can have an audio commentary,
you can have deleted scenes, or

672
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:10.400
you can have a making of documentary. What do you want? Well,

673
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:15.239
I needed to harken back to VH
just just for a minute. As many

674
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.320
of us, as as my favorites
came out on DVD. I pitched the

675
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.440
VHS tapes because I didn't need them. But I kept my VHS with The

676
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.960
Phantom because the one I had had
a particular cover, that is, you

677
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.599
wiggled it back and forth. It
went from kit to the Phantom and I

678
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:38.079
still have that downtairs uh. But
at any rate DVDs, I would want

679
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:44.400
absolutely to make me a documentary,
especially hearing some of it and reading about

680
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:46.760
some of this history, of all
the hands that were involved before it came

681
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:52.719
to the screen. I would love
to know about that. And then though

682
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:55.840
I'm gonna I'm gonna cheat and and
see I want, I want, I

683
00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.880
want some deleted scenes that there are
many, but those can be Easter eggs.

684
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.119
I used to love those on those
early DVDs. Wasn't that fantastic Up

685
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.400
up, up over, oh,
look here, down down, sideway down

686
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:13.559
or whatever? And I was obsessed
with the terreggs. My husband used to

687
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:15.480
get still mad because anytime we'd get
a new DVD, all the way up

688
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:19.880
until like you know, a Blu
Rays came out. The first time it

689
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.000
would go in the DVD player,
there I was. We weren't going to

690
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:24.440
hit play and watch it with our
popcorn. No, it was me on

691
00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:29.760
every menu going up up over nope, up, down over nope, down

692
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:31.760
down, up nope, and until
I and once I was statisfied, there

693
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:36.840
were no Easter eggs and I could
move on and actually go to the content.

694
00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.000
We We've done four or five of
these nineteen ninety six episodes talking about

695
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:44.519
DVD extras, and this is the
first time someone's brought that up, and

696
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:47.719
I love it because I used to
be that that, just like you,

697
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:52.320
I would sit there. I would
waste so much time every DVD I got.

698
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.199
I sat there trying to crack the
code right and figure out is there

699
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.440
a hidden menu is or hidden I
don't, why don't? Why don't the

700
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.599
studios do anymore? And so much
fun. The worst though, the worst

701
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.360
was when well, I think I
think the reason they stopped is because the

702
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:10.320
internet got savvy and for a little
while towards the end of that era,

703
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:15.920
there was like easter egg dot com
and it would tell you on every film

704
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:19.320
what they were, how you could
find them, and that not fun.

705
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:23.760
But I think the other thing though, too, the disappointment in them,

706
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:28.199
not why they maybe died, but
nothing was worse than you finally found one

707
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.840
and you got the little flower in
the corner of the screen to light up

708
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:32.079
and then all of a sudden,
boom, you're walking. And it was

709
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:37.280
always the stupid credits card for the
DVD content itself, you know, and

710
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:40.920
that was always a letdown. You
wanted to see bloopers, and you wanted

711
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:44.719
to see all this great stuff,
you know, costume sketches, whatever,

712
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:49.320
but no, there was always one
easter Egg that was just who made the

713
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.920
DVD and put the DVD menus together, and that that was just always a

714
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:58.920
little sad moment in my house.
My choice I'm saying, give me all

715
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:02.840
the deleted scene. We know there
are several scenes that kind of build upon

716
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:08.119
the romantic angle for Kit and Diana
and the Phantom and Diana. Those all

717
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:13.280
got cut winsor decided to cut them
for pacing issues. He wanted this to

718
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:17.320
be like a slick, nostalgic action
adventure movie, so we lost a lot

719
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.480
of that. And and then we
also lose a big scene the Phantom.

720
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:28.039
Supposedly the Phantom fights a giant snake. Why are you losing that? And

721
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:30.440
I could have been that set piece
later in the film that you were talking

722
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:34.800
about where it would have been nice
to have had one more big set piece.

723
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:40.320
Yeah, I give me him fighting
a giant snake over everyone fighting pirates

724
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.199
because it was fun. But we
you know, throw the snake in.

725
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:46.960
Let the snake fight the pirates and
the Phantom. I would have been fine

726
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:52.400
with that too. I don't know. Let's Robert, Let's talk about the

727
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:59.880
film's legacy. Is this a classic, a cult classic, or just a

728
00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:05.199
product of its time? Uh?
Into the Chinese menu, little columb little

729
00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:07.159
calm. See. I think it
definitely is a product of its time,

730
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:10.360
as we discussed, But I think
it is still a cult classic. People

731
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:15.079
know this movie in a way that
you say The Shadow and they probably don't

732
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:19.719
know it. And Rocketeer maybe you
know, Disney fans and a few people

733
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.800
know that one, but so so
more people seem to know of this movie.

734
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.719
Maybe it was just out marketing campaign. You know that those milk ads

735
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:31.480
permeated everybody's in my imagination. But
I'm gonna say cult classic. How about

736
00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:36.440
you? It's definitely a cult classic. It got a new life on h

737
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:40.440
on Video Rentals, DVD and I
don't know about I mean, I don't

738
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:43.920
know about you. But anytime it's
on, I'm gonna stop and watch it.

739
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:45.480
You know, yeah, I'm gonna
I own it. But I'm also

740
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:47.840
gonna stop and watch it. It's
I don't care if you want to call

741
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:51.360
it a cult classic, a guilty
pleasure, this is one. It's it's

742
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:54.280
just fun in a in a in
a way that we don't get superhero films

743
00:54:54.280 --> 00:55:00.440
that are like this anymore. How
do you think how do you think this

744
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:07.199
film impacted pop culture? Zero percent? Zero? Okay, I don't think

745
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:09.039
it did. I think it was
like we were talking about at the top

746
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:14.119
of the show with the quartet of
pulp, pulp movies and things. It

747
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:17.480
was a product of a time.
But I don't think it doesn't represent it.

748
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:22.079
You know, you're not going to
put this into a montage at the

749
00:55:22.119 --> 00:55:24.079
opening of some movie in the future
to show what the nineties was about.

750
00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:30.039
It doesn't have that boom. Well, I mean, okay, that's true.

751
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:34.039
Well here's my theory though, when
we're talking just about pop culture in

752
00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:39.480
general, I feel like the pulp
era superhero movies ran so that the MCU

753
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:44.320
could fly. That's an influence.
Yeah, absolutely, I see what you're

754
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:50.679
saying, Robert. As we wrap
up, first off, definitely want to

755
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:55.000
thank you for joining us here in
nineteen ninety six. I was excited you

756
00:55:55.079 --> 00:56:00.360
and I we recently Amber Lewis joined
us. We did an exclusive Patreon episode

757
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:07.199
listeners if you have not checked that
out yet. Robert is in rare form

758
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:10.440
on that episode. It's a blast. But yeah, I want to thank

759
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:14.519
you, Robert. I know that
you've got to be back. You and

760
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:16.880
I've already had some conversations about there's
a couple of movies I would love for

761
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:21.639
you to join us here on a
film. Buy four, but in the

762
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:25.320
meantime you're over on the Docum Base
seventy seven podcast. You're in some of

763
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:30.559
my favorite episodes, But anything anything
big coming up on the horizon. Oh

764
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:34.039
yeah, I'm guesting on a couple
and then I'll be hosting an episode that'll

765
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:37.679
be on during June for Pride Month. We're going to do a comparison of

766
00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.960
to Paul Rudnick movies Jeff Free,
which is not super well known, and

767
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.000
In and Out, which is better
known to gate themed comedies that came out

768
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.199
a couple of years apart and kind
of moved the needle on representation in film,

769
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.159
but also really finding it at the
same time. Absolutely yeah, In

770
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:57.880
and Out was hilarious. I'm a
Kevin Klin fan, so I love Kevin

771
00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:01.400
Klin, so I'll definitely look forward
to that one. Listeners, we want

772
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.599
to thank all of you for checking
out our limited series nineteen ninety six.

773
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:08.880
We're going to cover a lot of
movies from this year, but we won't

774
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:13.440
get to all of them. Some
of you have already shared some films that

775
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:15.800
are a must for us to cover, and you know, we thank you

776
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:21.639
for that. But keep them coming
by emailing us at a Film by Podcast

777
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:24.119
at gmail dot com. You can
hit us up on social media. You

778
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:30.360
know you'll find us on Facebook,
Instagram x. As for me and Robert,

779
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:35.360
it's time for us to bounce,
but next time. On nineteen ninety

780
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:39.119
six, our friend Andy Frye will
be back to discuss one of his favorite

781
00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:44.360
nineties films, Beautiful Girls. Peace
Out,