Alex Garland - Men

0:00 You know, when you're when you're talking about like the nineties and you see that that that dimension logo, you knew you were gonna get a good scary movie. Absolutely, And it's been a while since we've had that. But I kind of feel like like A twenty four has has taken up the mantle of like the premiere, like I don't want to say like the modern horror film, but when you see that A twenty four logo, you know you're gonna get something good. And they've done a ton of stuff, but you know, they've done like twenty horror movies at this point, maybe maybe more. Do you have a favorite from A twenty four? I do if that brings the bell at all? Hereditary. I absolutely love that film, very unique, one of those films that you probably don't want to watch too many times because it's just but yeah, that's probably my favorite one. I've seen that one once in the theater. Big mistake getting food to take into the theater. Not the kind of film you want to be doing that with it.

0:59 It's a stellar film, very creepy. I don't know that I ever want to see it again now. No, And you know, like like Midsommar is a little like that. Yep. Although I could watch that one again because of Florence Pugh, I think, oh yeah, that's not forget about X Well. I'm glad, I'm glad you bring that one up because that would be my go to for like my favorite. I'm not saying it's the best horror film they've done. Definitely my favorite though, because that when the one gave off like a Texas Chancell vibe absolutely away, which yes, absolutely, I do want to talk about a twenty four film today. Let's talk about a film by Alex Garland, his twenty twenty two underrated folk horror film Men. Hello everybody, and welcome back to a film by a podcast.

2:14 I'm Jeff Johnson, David Burns, Dave. We have got i'll set controversial film today to talk about. I think, so Alex Garland, who I know we've got his new one is dropping this Friday, Civil War. I know we have talked about that one. We were both excited for that one, but we thought, hey, let's talk, let's talk Alex Garland. He's because he's got a pretty impressive filmography. Yep. I know it's a stunted as it is, but but definitely definitely excited to talk about men because this one, this one was one that you and I had not seen no prior. I knew nothing about it, nothing, nothing about it.

2:59 Yeah, I'll tell you what. Before we get into this movie, I do want to take a brief moment. I want to shout out one of our listeners, Josh Avery from Michigan automatically Dave, I'm wondering, does Josh Avery go to the Motor City Comic Con? I hope so. I mean we've been going there for a couple of years now. Yeah, Josh, if you're listening, if you haven't been to MotorCity Comic Con this may, I think you need to go because we're going to be there again. We're gonna have to meet up with you. But listen, I bring up Josh because Dave, he sent us a really nice email. All right, yeah, Josh writes, I absolutely love your podcast and give it a five star rating. With recent episodes about union movies, Norma Ray, and coming of age movies, I would recommend Blue Collar by Paul Schrader and Heaven Help Us from nineteen eighty four as a coming of age movie. Keep the great episodes coming Fan for Life. All right, good email, joh Yeah, very nice email, Josh. Thank you. We obviously appreciate your support. We love that you're out there listening. We thank you for the suggestions, Dave, You and I were talking a little while ago about Paul Schrader and yeah, you know we're taking a look at Blue Collar. So it sounds like a good time to mean, Josh, keep an eye on that mailbox because we are going to send you some fun stuff for your support and for the

4:30 suggestions. And uh, Dave, back to the film men. Yes, first off, are we are we gonna go spoiler free this time? I think now we well, I mean we can't. I feel like we need, I need, we need to talk about the movie. We do. So here's here's my suggestion. You know, if you're listening to us right now, go see the movie first before you listen to us talk about this because it really needs to be seen and not know what's going to happen until it does happen, and because you should be shocked like we were. Yeah, this movie and this movie came out in twenty twenty two correct. It's currently streaming on Paramount Plus on Showtime yeah, yeah, check it outf you want to go spoiler free, because we gotta, we gotta dive into this one. We do, Dave. Let it Let the listeners know what this one's about. What haunts you will find you. After a tragic loss, Harper leaves her home in London and takes a trip to the English countryside, where she stays by herself in a manner that she has rented. It is here she stays to try and deal with emotions and memories that are haunting her, but ending this puts her into a position to deal with even more than she could possibly imagine. This is a folk horror film that truly dives into the depths of one's self. That's a good spoiler free assessment of what this one's about. Yeah, let's talk. Let's talk cast and crew. So our lead Jesse Buckley as Harper. Yep, Dave. She's currently filming The Bride opposite Christian Bales Frankenstein's Monster. Oh yeah, looking forward to Maggie Gillenhall

6:04 directing this one. Yep. Did you see the images they released on this I sure did, and it looks fantastic. I cannot wait to see this one. Cannot wait I read the synopsis. It sounds awesome, and she looks fantastic as the bride of Frankenstein. She does. Yeah, she looks fantastic in this right, she was very fantastic in this. One. Thing I learned recently about Jesse Buckley, I didn't know much about her at all, Jeff. Apparently she is an Irish singer and actress who apparently came in second place in the BBC Talent Show themed television series. I did do anything. I didn't know that about her. So, yeah, but I thought she did a really good job in this as Harper as the lead in this film. Yeah, I fantastic performance. She is a woman who is clearly dealing with some serious issues. Oh god. Yah, but I love that she is not She's not doing that typical damsel distress thing. I feel like she's pretty brave. She's pretty fierce in this movie. The things that she does. Yeah, in the film. And I'm not talking like, you know, again, we're not get anything away by saying, you know, talking about the actions that she takes. But I'm just talking like she's in a strange land. She wanders off into the woods that tunnel scene, Are you serious. That was the creepiest thing for me. Man, that whole tunnel scene. You know, when she's in the trailer are you gonna see it? But when she's doing like the voicing to echo down the tunnel and you get that really weird sound, then they use that in the score later

7:39 on. Ye I'm like, you jerks were doing that because not only with that tunnel scene still creepy, you're adding that to the element of the score to make it even creepier later down the road. I love that such an awesome scene because she's she's like self harmonizing, yeah, and letting the echoes catch up with one another. But still, you know, horror films tell you don't go down, no, don't go down that tunnel, what's wrong with you? And the one shot that Alex Garland did with where you show that the background was like, you know, you couldn't see what's going on. You just saw her and then it would, you know, she would go out of focus and then the background came into focus and saw that guy sitting there and then stand up and start running towards her. Dude, no, no, thanks, no, thank you. That that scene. I will get to this a little bit later. But it's creepy as hell, but it's gorgeous. The cinematography in this is gorgeous. I'll save that.

8:39 I just want to I'll put a pin in that. But yep, yeah, loving, loving what Jesse Buckley's doing here. I it sounds like you know more about her than I do. But I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more of her work. And I'm definitely looking forward to the Bride now that I've seen her in this one. Absolutely. And here's the craziest thing too about Jesse Buckley. Yeah, she and I'm not pushing my own buttons here, Jeff, but she reminds me of somebody I dated about ten years ago. Oh really, it looks almost just like her. So as I was watching her on screen, I kept thinking it was the girl that I had dated, and it was it just it felt so surreal the entire film. Oh boy, here comes con Wan. Let's talk about Rory Kennear. He had many different roles in this film, Jeff. So he's credited as Jeffrey.

9:33 Yeah, he's like the innkeeper or the owner of the house. I guess you know this. Let's get real quick. She she rents this house like you said in your in your synopsis, Yep, and it's I mean, it's a gorgeous house, youtiful. I love this house, English countryside. They shot this movie in the UK, obviously, Yep. And he's kind of like the owner who's got a cottage down the road a bit. He is, like you said, he's he's playing quite a few people because, uh you know, we're we're going spoilers here. Every guy in the village is played by Roy Kanear. It took me a little bit to realize that too, Like I'm like, I'm wait a minute, why does that look like Rory again? And then I just put that out of my mind and then it happened again. I'm like, is he playing every guy?

10:28 He there's you know the scene where the police are called. I was like, is that? Oh? I bet their brothers? No they're not, because the vicar and that little shithead kid, Oh creepy, super creepy can here. I know him as Tanner from the the Daniel Craig Bond films. Yes, he was. He was, I believe, wasn't it It was? It was all of them, It was all of them. Okay, Yeah, he's he played uh M's chief of staff and that's where I recognize him. Yeah, hard to recognize him in this one because he has I mean it's weird because it's not like there he's under heavy prosthetics. No, but just the change in hair, yeah, change in the in teeth, a change in just these subtle things facial hair. Yeah, this guy is off the charts with his acting because none of them you're not like, ah, I know, that's that's him. That's him, right, I mean a halfway film, like wait a minute, you know, as you start connecting the dots, he is. He is a perfect example of an actor who can just mold into something you don't know who you're watching at that point.

11:39 And I'm telling you he did so good as Jeffrey at the beginning because he was so awkward man. You know it was that, you know, he would make like those little odd humor comments. Yeah, and when he wasn't getting the reaction he was expecting, he would react awkwardly. It was so old. He's so awkward. He is. Just listen if if the MCU is ever planning to use the Chameleon as a villain, yes, hey, hey, hey, Kevin, take a look at Roy Can here, because absolutely. He nails it here, man, he does. Yeah. Also that his one comment that really made me bust out laughing was when he was talking about the pub, he said that the pub is ten minutes a walk, thirty minutes back. Yeah, I did, I did. He's I mean, he's I don't know what to make of him in the beginning, because he's either he's awkward and he's kind of sheepish and it's like you could tell he's he's attracted to her, but he's trying to watch his steps.

12:43 Yep. And he for the for most of the movie, he's he's kind of like our protector character. He's the guy like we trust him, right, Yeah, Yeah, Okay, Hey, well you know, Jeffrey's here, so things are going to be okay until they're not. They're not talk about things not being okay. Let's talk about briefly. Let's talk about Papa Asia Do, who plays the ex husband James. Great performance, jeff Oh my gosh, that scene in the apartment where they're arguing with one another. Yes, Oh my gosh, that was so well done man between the two actors, so good. This guy is an absolute psychopath in the movie.

13:33 And I had some fun. Earlier, I was just was pulling up some I was trying to do some digging on him. And you know, he's on the Graham Norton Show and he's on a couple other things, and he is one of the most charming, charismatic guys I've ever seen in an interview, Like I even I even saw one where they were kind of talking him up as like potentially the next James Bond, and he's you know, he's got the great actions. He's like, someone's got to play James Bond. Why not? You know? He he was so fun and I'm like, man, where this is not who I watched on screens because all that guy was was terrifying, right yeah, oh yeah, yeah absolutely, But I haven't haven't seen him do anything. I think he's like a theater actor, British theater. So keep your eye on that guy, because I think he's going places for sure. I think he's done a lot of British stuff obviously because he's a British actor. But yeah, keep your eye over him, for sure. Yeah. I'd love to talk more cast with you, but seeing is how Roy Kaneer plays about nine of the cast, right, I guess let's just move on to uh, you know, we don't talk we don't talk crew as much as we should, but I do want to talk for a minute about the director of photography, Rob Hardy. Oh Man, I tell you, first off, this guy's got some talent. His shots in this film are just absolutely stunning of the beautiful, of the beautiful English scenery. Can we just say how lush the greens, how vivid that color is. And they did that on purpose, Yeah, they did that to pull you in, to be feeling safe with that that bright greenery.

15:07 Dave, how often is it where you see a horror film that makes outside look safe and inviting and inside look terrifying because it's backwards. It's backwards. Yeah, we're dealing with like reds and greens basically. Yep. When we're outside, it is beautiful countryside, the forest. I mean, man, I thought I was watching like one of those Netflix uh what do they call like the like our planet that brighton. Yeah, but when you're outside, like the manor house that she's staying in, a lot of deep reds, yeah, dark reds and sunset orange. Yeah, it was like a but it was like a like nuclear orange outside, like it it looked nasty outside.

15:52 Yeah, uh, it's just it's a brilliant use of color and uh, just the shots that Rob Hardy does amazing. Tell me about this guy, Dave Well, I mean he's done everything Alex Garland has done, and including the new one that's coming out, Civil War. But I know him from Mission Impossible Fallout, which is one of the biggest ones that I've seen that he has done, and all of his work is fantastic. Yeah, I think he did last year's The Book of Clarence also, that's right, yep, yeah, yeah, so I think yeah, I think you're right. Anything that Alex Garland has directed, this guy has shot. I did see an interview with Alex Garland where he said that they work well together because they've developed a shorthand for communicating and he loves that Hardy shots are very understated and they are you know, not to put myself on the same level of Robertarty, because I'm not going to do that, but there were a few shots in there's like, oh I would have picked that too, that looks awesome. Absolutely, Yeah. You know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, you know, because I you know, I'm usually your go to guy behind the lens, and that's right. I could learn from Rob Hardy, you know. You know there's a few shots that he did in this movie that just really wowed me. One of them was the tunnel that we talked about, where you had the out of focus and the in focus kind of thing going on. Huh. But the other one that I absolutely loved was there's a couple more that I absolutely loved. One of those was when that camera is just floating behind her as she's walking down the trail before she got

17:22 to the tunnel. Yeah, we're like the background was completely out of focus, and you know she was in focus. I love that shot. But then when she's running back from the tunnel and you're focus on the dandelion floating, yes, and then she comes running into frame and obviously goes into focus. So many good shots in this movie. You bring up the dandelions, So I'm gonna I'm gonna drop some knowledge here real quick. Sure we we we see that imagery, that dandelion imagery several times about the movie. And there's a reason for that because dandy lions reproduce asexually and that's gonna play into a big part of this movie towards the end. So when you're watching this and you're like, when you go back for a rewatch, I should say, pay attention to how often you see the dandelions and that and how close we get with it. Yeah, it's almost a character in the movie, honestly. Yeah, even even the kind of hint of the when she grabbed the apple when she first arrived, oh, apple tree, within a lot of shots in that movie, if you pay attention to that, again, it's a it's that religious imagery. You know, she's she's pretty much the only woman in town, it seems like, besides the other female police officer and that whole eve and the forbidden fruit. You know. Uh, Jeffrey even mentions the you know that that that moment was tense, you know, like it was in the garden and then he was just joking, you're not

18:53 you're not to do that, and then he's a forbidden fruit. Yeah, Like, but he's awkward. He just does he know how to have a conversation with anyone? Apparently, I'll tell you, well, let's you and I know how to have a conversation. But let's take a quick break and when we get back, we'll talk a little bit about the film's background, and we got to talk a little bit about some of the scenes in this movie Welcome Back. We're talking about Alex Garland's twenty twenty two thriller Men Dave. He wrote the screenplay directly after finishing his script for Danny Boyle's two thousand and seven film Sunshine. So it's been sitting in the drawer for a little while. Yeah, you do that sometimes, to you it's the right moment, you know, And I think that's what he did. It kind of starts apparently I want to talk about the Green Man mytholog Oh yeah, okay, because this is something that he has wanted to frame a film around for a long time. Maybe that's why this this script was collecting dust in the in the drawer for a little bit. But I'm glad. I'm glad he got it out there because for those of you that don't know, So we got to address this real quick. In the church, there's a great scene where she's in the church. There is this very unsettling sculpture statue. You know, one side is the green Man and on the other side is this female form. So anyways, the Green Man, I'm reading here, Dave,

20:26 I don't happen to know this off the top of my head. I'm not that good. But the green Man is a legendary figure dating back thousands of years, sometimes associated with paganism and other ancient cultures. The figure is widely seen as a representation of rebirth and spring. That's why the face is kind of like a kind of leafy, you know, it's all about the cycles, it's all about the seasons. Despite the origins up for the figure, the green Man is often seen throughout British and other European architecture. In Christian churches. Uh. In the film the green Man, carvings are shown beside uh, the female carving, which is I'm hoping I'm saying this right, Sheila na Gigs And that's like the naked figure that's positioned rather crudely.

21:17 I guess I could say, yeah, yeah, but these carvings, they're traditionally seen as grotesques to warn off evil spirits. So, uh, you know, because we kind of come back to this, you know, like the the one what don call him the homeless guy, the creepy, scary naked guy out in the field, he kind of becomes the like we're watching, like every time we get back to him, we're kind of seeing him evolve into the Green Man. He's kind of cut himself open. He's doing this. Yes, oh yeah, he's doing this. I mean by the end, he looks like it's he's like something out of Hell Racer. Yeah, you know, because he's cut himself open. He's just jamming leaves and twigs into his and his skin. Very disgusting. But and apparently Garland was heavily involved in that character. I guess it was really important to Garland that he got this right. Wow. He allowed uh Rory to you know, flesh out the character a little bit mean with walking and behaving and stuff like that. But Garland actually with applying you know, the makeup and stuff on him. Is that not crazy? I that's the directors doing the makeup.

22:21 Yeah, for that character. Because he he was so involved with that, and it was very important to him. Just like you said, you know, he wanted to put a movie around the Green Man, so it was important him that it looked just the way he wanted it to. This movie deals with u with several themes, but the overall theme is kind of maybe it's a masculine toxicity that could be maybe part of it, part of it. I think here's a here's the thing, it's it's this one's really open to interpretation. I got a great quote, I know, I know when a film with forty five you always you and Scott a was dropping great, great quotes. So this is what Alex Garland has to say about the movie.

23:08 He says, so is it that Harper sees all men as the same whilst they are in fact different? Or is it all men are the same and she does not see that? There are two questions that sound very similar but have completely different inferences. Because when you think, I mean, that's pretty brilliant of him, it is. It is, you know. And I think if you take all of that as well, and you take her dealing with all those internal demons that she has coping with them, grief and pain and all of that, and her having to you know, deal with all of that in the the it makes sense when you break it down as the film of what the meaning is that we get at the end of this.

23:57 At least that's the way I see it. You know, you got to live with it, right, Yeah, she's she's had a traumatic experience. You know, the argument she's arguing with her husband about a divorce. He threatens to kill himself. He's basically blackmailing. He's like, if you if you do this, I'll kill myself. It is a fault. Yeah, it's all your fault and you'll have to live with it. I mean, he is, I mean, he is packing some serious baggage for a guilt trip. And you're I mean, your heart breaks for him because she or because she's crying, and she's like, you can't say that, don't say that to me. Things escalate. He doesn't smack it like we've seen movies where a guy will like backhand or smack a woman. He hauls off and punches her or hard puts her on the ground. Her nose is bleeding.

24:48 I love, though, that she doesn't cower. She jumps right back up, starts screaming, and kicks him right out of the house. And then we know what happens, you know, because he's gonna go up, he's gonna take another floor up, and then he's gonna take several floors down. Oh yeah, immediately. But I feel like, I mean, I'm watching this and I'm trying to piece it together and figure out what I'm wanting the movie to be. I kind of feel like all the men in this town are different aspects of toxic male traits. Yeah, you know, like the cop doesn't really believe her and everything's fine, you know, he's not really concerned. The vicar for those of us in the States, that's that's a it's like a priest, clergyman. He's kind of guilting her, like maybe it was your fault, what happened to him? Yeah, that whole scene, Are you kidding me? Yeah, I just I've oh, man, she's in the church, she's upset. She meets the creepy kid version wearing the girl may wearing that wearing that female mask. That was scary.

25:51 I'm sorry, a twelve year old sitting there with that that almost looks like one of the strangers. Yeah, oh yeah, you're right, you're right, Yeah, thinking about that. Yeah, played by Rory again, Yeah, played by Rory. And you know, like that kid's little, you know, he's a little he's a dick, you know, you know, calls it, calls her a name, and and you're like, oh, it's okay. The priest is here. You know, he's gonna take care of us. And then Dave when he's you know, and I'm like, I'm in on the priest. At that point, I'm like, Okay, this, maybe he's gonna be a good guy. Maybe he's gonna be there for when he laid that hand on her on her knee a little too, a little too sexually, I was like, Okay, he's a creep.

26:33 And then he starts tearing her down mentally, you know. So I kind of feel like she's dealing with her grief over the death of James, the husband character, the ex husband. We should say, I feel like she's dealing with her grief, but but she's seeing like all the bad, all the all the ways men can be can be evil. Maybe that makes sense. It does, It makes perfect sense. And you know, the more think about what I watch in this film, that makes it a lot more believable what she was going through and what she was witnessing and what she was seeing. So man, this is like, you need to go back and watch this movie again. It's a mind bender, it is, for sure, because we're like, you know, we're with the naked homeless man for a little bit, so it almost feels like, Okay, you're setting me up for a home invasion thriller. Yeah, But then we're seeing stuff and then it's like it starts to feel supernatural because things are there, but then they're not there. Yep. And then then it's like, okay, so are we inside of her head? And ultimately I decided that a lot of what's going on is inside her head. Agreed, that's exactly what that's That's how I'm looking at it. Yep, absolutely all right. The one scene that she was on the film with her friend, yeah, and which there was a couple of scenes where she was on the film with her friend, but the one that I was talking about, like when she was, you know, talking to her about bringing because she's coming out to her you know, yeah, the address to get out there and the phone kept breaking up and those kind of things, and then she was talking about the axe behind

28:06 her and she's like what acts she like turns and looks in his back there, you know what. That was foreshadowing something's coming up that she's going to need that axe for. But it was just so creepy in itself, and just an axe that was behind her because you're like, what the what the hell is going on here, just creepy back to Rob Harty shots some of that Cat and Mouse the film work where she's on her laptop, she's on her phone. Oh and the creepy, scary naked man is is kind of meandering about in the garden and getting closer almostly. He's he's almost like Michael Myers at this point because he's there and then she turns around he's not there, and I just I love it. Yeah, that all of those shots were brilliantly well done, and you're you're hanging on the edge. You're like, when when is she going to see him? When is she going to see him? And then you know she catches him out in the backyard with the apple tree. Uh, the apple tree coming in to play again.

29:00 But later on down the road when you get you know, the big fight and stuff like that, if you want to call her that. When the lights were going off and on in the back you know, it reminded me of the motion the motion light. Yes, like the scene from Halloween when Michael Myers was you know in the when the lights were going off and on, and then he was there and he kept moving closer. You're talking about twenty eighteens. Yes, yeah, and they did the same way in this film where the lights would go off and he's gone, likes to come on and then something else was going to happen. The one that got me, Jeff, was when the lights went off and she's outside and the lights came back on and he just comes running at her like the cameras a POV and it's just running at her, so you know something's coming at her, and she turns around and takes off running. Man, I was like, holy crapt Yeah, I mean he's like a wild animal charging. Oh that was that was so good. You know, you brought up the apple tree, and the more I think about the apple tree again, I feel like that that the the symbolism there is you know, it is she or is she not guilty? Yeah? You know, is she to blame? You know the whole even the apple the you know, the you know, the first sin if you will. So this movie really does a number on your on your head where you know who's who really is who's to blame? Who should be guilty? Because it's not her? No, but the movie, the movie hints at it like maybe it is her. Yeah, but that's what

30:30 she's dealing with. And that's exactly what Alex Garland's trying to get you as a you know, to be with her, to be involved with her, to you know, adapt to her, to attach herself to her. Basically, that's what he's doing. He wants to twist her mind thinking is she at fault? No, she's not her fault, because that's exactly how she's feeling. Yeah, which is brilliant. It is absolutely brilliant. I mean, this is you know, I know we're gonna get to his filmography here in a little bit, but it's like everything he does really makes you think. It does and when you when you're talking about it, Like when we talk about sci fi movies and horror films, more often than not, they're not built to make us think, right, Alex Garland does that though, whether he's doing horror or whether he's doing sci fi, he makes you think.

31:18 Yeah. And Jeff, we got to talk about the elephant that's in the room with this movie, and that's the whole rebirth thing seen, which was very very hard to watch. One thing that I want to talk about this whole movie in general before we really dive into that, is this movie will put you on edge. It will make you feel sick to your stomach, it will make it will unnerve you, which is exactly what Alex Garland wants to do. And by the time it got to it into this film, well, when the whole birthing stuff was happening, I'm like, why am I watching this? This is the most disgusting thing in the entire world.

31:59 But is wait? Is this when you sent me a message, yes, and said, what the hell are you making me? Watch? Right? Yes, that's exactly what I did. I sent you that message. I was like, why are you making? What am I watching? But you know, once that scene was over with, and by the time I got to the end of this film, I really in the credit for rolling and I was done with it. I really stepped back and started thinking about this movie, and I'm like, holy crap, this director got me every emotion I should have felt in this movie. I felt it. I absolutely exactly through the eyes of Harper. And that's exactly what Alex Garland wanted to do. So in the end, when I was kind of grossed out by this movie and not liking this movie, I liked this movie. We mentioned okay, we've been talking about A twenty four. The production company, this is the team that gave us Hereditary, This is the team that gave us Midsommar. And those are two of the most unsettling, unnerving. I'm glad I watched it, but I don't know if I ever want to watch it again. Type of horror films that I think I've ever seen, and Men is up there with them, you know, when we're talking at the end, this this this birthing scene, this continuous birthing scene. It's very much body horror, and like a David Cronenberg fashion, right, because you're seeing, you're seeing like all these characters that she's been dealing with, like one

33:29 begets the next one, and they're they're kind of they're berthing out of out of the out of one another, you know, like, so we've got the we've got we've got the cop, and then he kind of births the uh you know, the kid, and the kid births the vicar, and you know it's just over and over again. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to watch. But did you pay attention? Did did you even did even uh did you even connect the injuries? You know, the hand injury with with that James on the on the hand, the split open split. Yeah. I didn't get it till the end because when when you see James's corpse in a flashback, I mean it's grizzly because he doesn't just fall, you know, he you know, you know, we're did he did he commit suicide or did he slip and fall off the balcony above? We don't know, And that's another one of the questions that she's wrestling with. But he lands on like a wrought iron gate basically, and uh, not too comfortably, No, not at all. But this birthing scene, man, I love the fact that she know she she injures. Well, well, I guess we'll just say Jeffrey because that's where he's everyone, right, Yeah, when she rams that knife through his hand and then he's like stuck in the mail slot and oh my god, oh boy. That whole time is he's pulling his hand out and he can't get it through the mail slot.

34:57 Because I was I was grinding my teeth. I was like I wanted, I wanted to look away, but I didn't want. I'm missing it, Like, let's get on with it, get on with it. Yeah, I don't know, man, it was tough. It was tough to watch, but not not overtly gross, like it's gory. It's disturbing. It's disturbing. It should be. Yeah, Like, I don't know that I'll ever watch it this movie again. I know I'll want to at some point, but it's one of those like I'm gonna remember, just like Hereditary, I will always remember the disturbing imagery from that movie. Of course, even if I never watch it for like another twenty or thirty years, it'll it stays with you. I think this one stays with you. These kind of movies will imprint themselves on your brain, and that's exactly what it it's supposed to do. So down the road, you're never gonna forget it. You're not. There's no way. Dave, what would you what would you say would be the pivotal scene in this film? Jeff, there's so many there's so many good things in this because this movie kind of it starts off, you know, her walking around, you know, exploring the area of the countryside, those kind of things, and then you start diving into the little bit of the horror of it with the tunnel and those kind of things.

36:16 I'm gonna have to For me, I have to go with just because how pivotal it is, is the whole birthing thing man, just because it was just so disturbing, so gross, so you want to turn your head away from it. But then when you get to the end of it, you realize how important all of that was, because it's what's going on in her head and everything you said about you know, the toxicity of males, and you know, is she blaming herself? Is she going to accept it? She just don't have to live with it. All of those kind of things are just converging there at the end, and I think the whole birthing thing is for me, is is the big one? What about you? I'm gonna go with the argument, the apartment, the apartment fight. I feel like I feel like we learn everything about the relationship in that that moment.

37:12 We understand what kind of man James is, and it's our first real understanding of what Harper's dealing with. So up until then, I was still my my I'm still wondering, is this gonna be a typical girl alone in the countryside home invasion? You know, like I spit on your grave or hush or whatever. I didn't want that, and I'm so glad that's uh that Alex Garland did not deliver that, because this, like we said, it's it's a mind bending it is you're questioning everything you're seeing and you you know, for me, it was the credits rolling when I finally like everything clicked because you know, like you're talking, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you're talking like the birthing scene that you're talking about. That's not the that's not the final puzzle piece you need, but it's still a big piece of the puzzle, right, Yeah. Man, that to go back to the apartment, that that is a really good choice. I didn't really think about that one of being so pivotal as it is, but I talked about it earlier too. But their acting here is so realistic of an argument that I have ever seen on film. And there's been a lot of arguments on film between characters and stuff like that, but this one was just how they were just raising their voice to one another at a screaming level, back and forth at one another. You could tell, or you believed, I should say that these two are truly in a relationship the way they are responding to one another a few years ago. Do you remember that movie? I think it

38:44 was a Netflix original that got some oscar buzz. It was called Marriage Story with Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson. Yeah, that scene, you know, like the whole like and and the nominees are they show Adam Driver in that scene where they're fighting and they're screaming at each other. Hm. I've always contended that that is the greatest real looking argument on ever captured on film. I believe that they are in an ur. I believe that they're in a relationship that is going sour very quickly. And I didn't think I would ever see something as good until I saw this scene in Men. And to your point, I believe that this is two people that were once in love and have spiraled out of control and have got to get away from each other because they're so the relationship is so toxic. And this guy man again, uh Papa a Sea do he is brilliant in that moment. Yeah. I mean it felt very voristic to me because I felt like I was looking through the window and catching someone's argument. It really felt like that. Absolutely it did well. I'll tell you what, Dave. Let's let's take one more break, and when we get back, we got to talk a little bit about the ma end of the hour, Alex Garland and his filmography. Absolutely, Okay, dave a few things about Alex Garland before we talk about his movies.

40:10 Sure, he is a novelist, screenwriter and director. You remember that Leonardo DiCaprio thriller The Beach I Do that was adapted from the novel of the same name that Alex Garland wrote, Holy crap, I did not notice that. Yeah. He also wrote the screenplays for Danny Boyle's films Sunshine and twenty eight Days Later, one of your favorites he wrote, He wrote dread Did he really Carl? Yep? Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Alex Carland likes films that you can lean into and participate in rather than films that spoon feed you all the details. These are his words, by the way. Okay, So think about think about this movie in particularly, and you can see that he's writing what he likes, right. Yeah, And he's a brilliant writer. You can tell that he's a novelist because and he's able to bring that on screen, which is really hard to do, but he does it. So well, I mean again, because this is this is a horror film. That is that's question making you question everything that you're seeing. It's not it's not about jump scares and you know, Psycho with a mask. It's it's true horror and it's and he's making you question everything that you're watching. So and he's brilliant at it. And one more thing I'll say about him, and these are his words again, Uh, he prefers writing for other directors, And uh that makes a lot of sense when you think about the recent bombshell he dropped on everybody it does a couple of

41:44 days ago. Right, Yes, he can't seriously retire from directing that he said directing. He's gonna keep writing, I guarantee, yeah, you know, yeah, he's definitely gonna keep writing because I got I got that, I got I got someone on that here in a little bit. But uh, yeah, can he really not? I mean he's fifty three years old? Can can Is he really not going to direct another film right now? Probably because he probably wants to focus on just writing itself, because directing's hard. Man, it takes a lot out of you, it really does, especially at I've seen what it's done to you in the past here and there, So I get that, but man, I just feel like, please don't deny us the talent, right, Yeah, that's that's the only tough part, because you're right, he's only fifty three. He's got a lot of years ahead of him. Absolutely, I think in the movies we're going to miss out on if he truly does stick with his retirement on that.

42:37 Oh that's let's hope not. Let's hope not. But let's talk about what he has done. Yeah, starting with his directorial debut in twenty fourteen Ex Machina. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, day this was the film that made you a huge fan of Alicia vikandor correct? Yeah it is? Yeah, of course did it? Not everybody? It had to be? Yeah, he and and you know, just so we don't have to say it every single time we're talking about one of his movies. He has written all the movies that he's directed, right, so, uh, definitely I can say he has a he has a style and I'm gonna get into that here in a little bit. But your thoughts on X Makina it's about the computer programmer, is that right? Yes? Yeah, the AI guy yeah, the AI Guy. Yeah, No, I mean it is one of those movies that really makes you think about everything, which is exactly what Alex Garland does with all of his projects. You know, you followed further and further into the story, the characters, and by the end of it, you're like, really, Okay. Yeah, if you've not seen this movie, this is one you definitely have to check out because it's sci fi and I think Alex Garland really loves his sci fi films, So you definitely want to check this one out for sure. Yeah. Twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, depending on where you live. But I think the movie was fantastic, a yap, cutting edge VFX, great performances, and that's gonna that's gonna fall into his next film. Twenty eighteen, he does Annihilation with Nalie Portman

44:14 and I'm one, Jeff, you haven't seen this, my lord, Dave, I know again, Okay, So if you appreciate the mind bending sci fi, Annihilation is the movie for you. Uh. Natalie Portman basically, she's a biologist that goes on like the secret I don't want to give away too much, but she's like a biologist who goes on an expedition sort of into a again, I want to spoil it, like a biodome into like not a biodome, but like a protected zone. No one goes into this zone because the law you know, like nature, like the laws of nature and physics don't really apply. Mm hmm. I would never condone remaking aliens or alien but if you were, if you were going to, this was the movie that made me say, hey, Nallie Portman could play Ripley.

45:15 That's that's that's what I tell you. Okay, I want to say it's a it's a Netflix original, so I would strongly urge you to uh to check it out because it came out, like I said, it came out like five, five years ago, six years ago, whatever. But it's fantastic. Nallie Portman, Jennifer Jason Lee, Tessa Thompson before she exploded in popularity. Okay, even Benetticu, Wong, you know who plays Wong in the MCU, He's in there. It's a it's a fantastic, fantastic movie, and I guarantee you you will be happy that you saw it. Also, Oscar isaac Oh has a part in it, so I will definitely check that out, then yeah, put put it on your watch list. Uh it definitely X makinna got my You know, I was curious about al Scarland Annihilations? What made me, you know, interested? Like, Okay, this guy, this is his follow up, and now I'm all in.

46:15 He's it's amazing. I will take your word for that and I will definitely watch it, all right. Two years later, he does a TV mini series called Devs. Have you did you watch this? No? Have not? All right, I don't even know what it's about. Okay, I'm gonna I'm telling you, and I'm telling telling all the listeners everyone who has not watched Devs. Stop what you're doing. Go to Hulu and just watch the first episode because it will blow your mind. And I'll tell you something, Dave, I never seen it until two hours ago. Oh okay, I was like, oh, you know what, I'll check out this show.

46:58 You know, I could speak to it a little bit when we when we talked about Alex Garland, and I'm like, man, we gotta hurry up and get this episode out of the way so we can go back. It's incredible and it solidifies the statement that Alex Garland has a specific style a look to his films. It may as well be a film, because the you would just expect that it's a it's a big budget and looks like it's like two movies that's gonna be chopped into eight episodes because it is fantastic Nick Offerman, who we loved on Parks and rec Dave. You know, we loved him on the Last of Us. Wait till you see Nick Offerman in devsk And for everyone wondering, like in David, you know, you got to look like you're like what, okay, so what is it? I'm gonna I'm gonna read you this like the little synopsis. A computer engineer investigates the secretive development division in her company, which she believes is behind the disappearance of her boyfriend. So imagine a sci fi thriller television show with the effects of X Makana. It's it's like, it's that scary sci fi where it's like it looks like it's it's today's times. Yeah, this isn't the future.

48:19 It's like it's it's today and it's that scary technology where you're like I'm watching I'm like, I guarantee that this this kind of stuff is happening in America. There's places like this in America, we just don't know about them. A little scary, definitely has like a even like a little bit of an X Files vibe to it. Oh so okay, yeah, eight episodes. It was like one mini series twenty twenty and I with only one episode in. I am strongly recommending it and listeners this. Yeah, it's on Hulu, so listeners. If you, if one of you out there, some of you out there have have watched devs and you have an opinion of it, contact us let us know because I'd love to see what everyone else is thinking about this. Because I'm excited. I can't wait to get into the second episode. I'll probably finish this thing tonight. Dave, I'm intrigued.

49:09 Now, okay, I'll check it out. Well, we've been talking about twenty twenty two's Men, and that leads us to Friday Davey. Civil War is his next his next feature. We're going right, Oh yeah, I mean, come on, it's got the beautiful Kriston Dunst in it, so you know, I got to beat it ore for that. Got one of those girls that you just can't say no to. Kirsten Dunst. Yeah, I know it's been dividing. It's been dividing people, and you know, the media has been all over this one definitely has some political undertones. Of course, I am excited. I cannot wait to see it. But you want to talk about what's next for Alex Garland. Well, considering he's not directing anything, is he writing anything? Dave, He's got two projects.

49:57 So he's currently in production on a film called Warfare, which is starring Joseph Quinn and Will Palter. Okay, and Garland wrote it. And the word is he is co directing this with Raymondoza. Oh okay, And if you're wondering who Raymondoz is, he was actually the military advisor on Civil War. Okay, a little, a little deep dive on him. This is gonna be his first time directing anything. So he's produced some good stuff and done some technical work. Outside of that, he is also writing twenty eight years Later for Danny Boyle, Guy Loves Danny Boyle. Yeah, clearly you know that that's good. Yeah, and uh, and everything that's come out so far indicates that this is gonna kick off like a new trilogy for the twenty eight days, twenty eight years, twenty eight weeks. Well, you know that whole franchise, keep it, keep it going on a good film yep. Yeah, you know, we've talked about Danny Boyle so much on the episode. I know Andrew Blakeley loves Danny Boyle, so I'm probably gonna have to have him back in here very soon to talk about. Well, I guess any Danny Boyle film he feels necessary, So absolutely, Andrew will get you back yep. And again we you know he is. He's claiming that he is retiring from directing. But Dave, my question to you is, if we're lucky enough to get him back, what would you want to see? So we've talked about this director already and his name is Ryan Coogler.

51:34 We know Ryan Coogler is doing a new X Files. I would love to see Garland team up with him to do some episodes of the new X File series. Now, that is an excellent idea because this isn't like signing on for you know, ten twelve weeks to do a movie. This is just doing a couple of TV episodes yep. And he can write and direct them because we know he doesn't tell them. He would be very, very talented. So I would love to see that man. Anything from you. Honestly, even if I had something, I'm scrapping it because now I want to see him team up with Jordan Peele on this X Files thing. That is the that's the perfect request, Dave Cool. Yeah, well, as we said, this is streaming on Paramount Plus. It's also on the Showtime app. Do you recommend this one? You know, when I got through the birthing scene and if I would have ended it there, I say no, I do not watch this film. But you know what after the credit for rolling and I was watching us thinking about what I had seen. Yes, I recommend this film. I'm with you if you're a fan of unsettling horror, you know, like the movies we've we've discussed, we've we've we've mentioned, you know, Hereditary Midsummer. I think you should check Men out because you will not be disappointed. You won't listeners. What do you think

53:05 of men? And that's the movie, not men in general? Yeah, well, I didn't want the inbox like crammed full of you know kinds of stuff. But let us know what you think of this one on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. You can check out a Film by podcast dot com. Uh we drop. We like to drop articles there, and our entire library is streaming free. You can also write to us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com, much like Josh Avery. Give us your questions, your comments, your concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of a film by swag. Tomorrow, Dave Phasers set the stunt. I understand we're moving on from Star Trek the Next Generation. We have We, Scott, Wayne and I have wrapped the seven seasons of Star Trek the Next Generation.

54:04 Tomorrow we are moving into Discovery, which is in season five, its final season, I might add, and we're going to be joining them for the next nine weeks. Fantastic And on Friday, our friend Andy Frye is back on our limited series nineteen ninety six to discuss one of his favorites, a movie that is so money. I'm talking about Swingers, of course, Dave, always a pleasure, even when it's a movie that we haven't seen in You're sending me threatening texts before you've even finished it. I'm gonna keep sitting them because apparently it's working. It's working. It's working. And to all of you out there listening, hitting the like, follow, subscribe, and share buttons, and supporting the show on our Patreon, we thank you.

55:24 I want to think that I wanted to talk about about A twenty four a little bit on the podcast, but it's okay that we didn't. I love this studio. They are taking chances, they're they're taking risks on stories, on ideas and helping creators bring these to fruition where big studios wouldn't even touch them. Big studios can't hold a candle to what they're doing right now. No, but because even outside the horror genre, they're knocking out of the park with stuff like I had no idea. Like we talked about Lady Bird not too long ago with Amber Lewis. It's a twenty four, you know, Adam Sandler cutting all the bullshit and going going serious with uncut gems.

56:09 A twenty four and one of my favorites of twenty twenty three, the Von Eric wrestling family story, The Iron Claw, that was A twenty four. So I kind of feel like this this studio just they're off to the races Man. They're like they are you know, this is why I wanted A twenty four to get the Halloween TV series, because that would have been great. Can you imagine what they could have done with that with their what they're showing now to us can if only if only I know it? I feel frustrating,