Ang Lee: The Ice Storm

0:00 So, Dave, I'm curious, have you have you been any good parties lately? Well, not lately. I've heard of some good key parties, but not been to one of those yet. I don't know if i'd recommend going to one of those, but but I'll tell you what I would recommend. We talk about a film by Ang Lee his his nineteen ninety seven underrated classic, The Ice Storm. Hello everybody, and welcome to the Film By podcast. I am Jeff Johnson, and I am not sitting beso Brad Kozoh. He is taking some much deserved time off and in his place for the time being, I'd like to welcome filmmaker David Burns to take his place. David, welcome, and how are you.

1:16 I'm doing wonderful and it is an honored to be here. Yes, this is not your first time co hosting on a film buy. I think we did Death Note last year, right, that's correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Starting to realize Brad takes a lot of vacations on me. Well, he earned, he hears them, he earns them all right. Oh yeah, I'm happy to have you here, Dave. So let's talk talk about The Ice Storm for those of us that haven't seen it yet. Dave, any of our listeners that are wondering what is the Ice Storm? Can you give us a little bit of a synopsis? Yeah, absolutely so. It's a film that's based off of the widely acclaimed nineteen ninety four nine novel by Rick Moody.

2:02 Screenplay was by Jeames I believe his last name is Shamous, but it is during a nineteen seventy three Thanksgiving weekend in Connecticut. It is about the Hoods and their neighbors, the Carvers, who are relationship wise skidding out of control, isolated from each other. Then an ice storm hits and their problems seem inconsequential and nothing will ever be the same. Excellent you talk about them skidding under control. There. This is nineteen seventy three in a well to do area of Connecticut, right suburbs of Connecticut. Yep. A lot of controversial topics covered in this film. You know, you've got drug and alcohol, amuse and abuse, You've got casual sex, You've got underage sex, I mean underage, yeah, underage, You've got You've got some of these kids kind of kind of discovering things for the first time. Yep. Definitely a little bit dark and dramatic.

2:59 It absolutely is, and and at times it feels a little awkward, like should I be watching this, you know, should I be in this room with them? We we covered back in uh, back in March, we covered Sophia Coppola's The Virgin Suicides. Yeah, Brad, I remember I recall Brad saying it's such a great film, but you it's not one yet you want to watch often? You know, it kind of makes you feel I don't want to say it makes you feel bad, but it you know, you don't, you don't. It's not an uplifting movie, right, No. No, nothing you want to revisit all the time. Yeah, And watching The Ice Storm, I almost feel like this would be a great companion film to Coppola's work because they both have well, they both take place in the seventies, they both have that haunting, dreamy look with the cinematography. I could almost see like this this is like one neighborhood over from from The Virgin Suicides. It is.

3:56 It's I think this is a sensational film, but not again, not when you want to wreck you wanna you want to visit all the time? Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, So let's let's get into a little bit about about the movie, you know, because again it's it's weird. It's like I want to see it, but but I don't know if I should be watching some of it. There's a lot of there's some there's some uncomfortable moments there. There really are. I know, the the scene between Wendy and I believe is that Sandy the younger boy, is that correct? When they were the Christina Riccia Richie. Yeah, when they're in the bathroom and she's like, you know, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. That whole scene right there, I just, man, I was so uncomfortable, which I guess you should be, but I just felt really awkward there, and you know, I just I almost had to turn away from the screen.

4:50 Well that's scene in particular. The thing the thing that that I think about with it. First off, it's a moment, you know, a situation like that, you're you're it's kind of cool to see that that Wendy has control, She's she has the power in that in that moment, right, you know, And sometimes because somebody so often you see scenes like that and the girl, the female character usually is is a weak character or they're victimized. Ye, Wendy is not victimized in this situation. She's you could almost say that she's the victimizer. I would agree, you know, because the you know the other the boy, you know, he clearly does not have a good experience being in there with her. So yeah, you're right. It's one of those things where you're just like, I feel bad for both of them.

5:37 Yeah, and Sandy, you can really tell that he's still underdeveloped because I mean if you look at and he's a troubled kid. I mean a lot of these people are very troubled, but you know, he gets he's like blowing stuff up, you know, in the backyard, you know. So I mean he's a very troubled kid. And I think when he saw Wendy at one time in the street and he had the little army man and he was like pretending they're like shoot her. I mean yeah, you know, I think his character, you know, tragic character, because he clearly is curious, you know, he I think he I think he doesn't like her because you know, his older brother played by Elijah Wood, Elijah plays Mikey. I feel like he probably the Sandy character probably dislikes her because she takes his brother's attention away from him, but he also does like her because he's curious.

6:30 About her at that age. He's at that age where he's he's curious about about the female sex and what's it all about? So exactly. Yeah, Christina Ricci's character really so well written and performed performed. Yeah, I don't know who else I could have seen, because you know, she's playing fourteen. I know she's a little bit older than that at the time, but I don't know many actresses that could pull it off. I know Natalie Portman turned down the role for whatever reason. I could see her doing it. I think she's got the gravita sport but I do too, And I don't know. Didn't Christiana Ritchie.

7:11 Didn't you play Wednesday Adam a little bit later, maybe a year or two after this? Yeah? Is that right? I think it was either right before right after. I'm not a whole I'm not really familiar with the the Adams Family movies, but uh, yeah, it's right around that same time. M So this you could almost argue that this is like her first adult role. Yeah, even though she's playing a child. Still, as far as the rest of the these characters, you know, there's not there's not many of them in the in the movie where you can kind of get behind and root for. None of them, in my opinion, man, none of them. I mean, Kevin Klein is he's He's almost on that Tom Hanks level of likability in all of his movies, but in this he's he's.

7:54 A bit of a worm, right he is, Yeah, dirtball worm, whatever you want to call him. I mean, everybody in the family is struggling, you know it. It's obviously two very dysfunctional families, and you know, everybody's questioning what is going on in their lives? Are they happy where they're at? But man, Ben just irritated me to no end, because come on, man, you've got a beautiful wife, Elena, Elena, Yeah, and it is Joan Allen, Yeah, Joan Allen. Come on, man, well why I mean, I know it's going weaver. She's extremely attractive as well. Come on, It's not that I dislike him in this movie, but I am disappointed in him. Yeah, you're you feel you're like, come on, right, man, he's he's not even a good dad if you think about it.

8:41 No, I mean at points I think he tries, but then it's like, then you don't think the effort is there, Like it's you can tell that he's become that selfish individual who is just he knows he's not happy where he's at, so he's trying to find that happiness somewhere else, even though he's got a really good family, even though the family's falling apart. Yeah, his his character is for me, it's he's a little reminiscent of the Kevin Spacey father character in American Beauty. Oh yeah, Yeah, he's he's got everything, you know, he's got he's got great friends, he's got a wonderful family, they've got great they've got money obviously. But he's going through this a bit of a midlife crisis, and he just doesn't know what to do about it and how to how to handle himself. And he chooses alcohol and an affair with a Sigourney Weaver, his his neighbor Janie So And I gotta be honest, man, I think this is the first time I've seen Sigourney Weaver a movie where I just didn't like her. You know.

9:41 I think it's because she was really playing a bad person and I think that took away from her attractiveness all together. She's a beautiful woman even today, she's a beautiful woman. She's gorgeous. Yeah, but her cruelty in the movie, yes makes her, Uh makes her an ugly person. It does. And I'm not talking about physical physical I'm just saying her her personality, the care and hats off to Sigourney Weaver because she plays it brilliantly. Oh yeah, for us to feel this way. But well, and her husband, Jim Yeah, I mean, I mean played boy. Is that Jamie Sheridan, you know, I mean I know he's struggling a little bit too, but he's trying. Even even when he walked in to talk to his kids, he's trying.

10:25 Yeah. I think there's a few people that you can you can get behind and root for in this movie. Uh, he would be one of them. Yeah, because even though he does, you know, the key party that we kind of referenced earlier, even though he does succumb to the temptation, like everybody else, he immediately regrets it. Oh yeah, it doesn't feel good about it. Yeah, so does a Lena at that time too. I mean it's like it was like a spur of the moment thing because everything happened, and you know, they got caught up in the moment and they felt like, well, I guess we should do this kind of thing, and and then then everything kind of like broke down on both of them, you know, and fell apart. Yeah, I mean, what a bad night for that guy, Oh my gosh, especially how it ends. We'll get to that obviously in a minute, yere, but yeah, let's keep let's keep talking a little bit more about this cast.

11:15 Someone who you can definitely get behind, at least I feel like you can. M h. Paul hood Yep, Yeah, played by Toby maguire. Toby McGuire in his early days before he becomes spider. Man pre pre Raymie spider Man, Tobey maguire. And how ironic is the fact? And this is one thing I loved about the film is how it kept referring back in his narration to the Fantastic Flour comic book, Yeah, that he was reading in the elements of it were actually like what was going on with his family and the Carver family. I loved that element. That is so good. And I mean the comic book nerd me, you know, he's he's got a copy of a Fantastic four yep rolled up the. End of the Fantastic Four is what it was called.

11:57 Yes, think about that? Yeah, the film? Yeah, because that that whole that that storyline, that and that comic. It's all about the Fantastic Four coming undone because someone some you know, bad guy I think was a I think it was a Nihilist. Maybe wasn't Galactus. Maybe maybe a Nihilis man. I'm getting nerdy here. It's good, but uh, basically, the the whole family's held hostage. Reid has to sacrifice his young son in order to save not just his the rest of his family, but the entire planet. And this does not go well for the rest of the Fantastic Four members. So there's so many good parallels between that story and what's going on. And there are the fact that that the writers and the Angley tied it together where they did. I love it.

12:48 Yeah, And you know another thing I like about Paul's character is, you know, he he got the hotspot. And let's not forget the very first film for Katie. Holmes, Yes, the. Yeah, which is a weird yeah what name is Libits? But you know, Paul's character. You know, he obviously wants to be with libbts, and of course he obviously tells his friend who shows up when he goes to New York. But you know it, what drove his character for me is because at first, when Paul went into the bathroom and was looking for medication and got that to put his friend to sleep, I'm like, man, what a turt ball. But then but then you know what happens with the libots too. She takes it and he had the chance of you know, taking advantage of her here, and he realized that's not the way he wanted to go, you know, so I think he put her to bed and then he just left. I that spoke volume to his character right there, It really did.

13:45 Yeah. I So when he's he's looking around to the medicine cabinet, I I kind of championed him here for a minute because he has to leave, you know, he has to get back on the train to go home. Yeah. And his friend who is who is an actual just dirt ball, you know, because they reference how this guy has has slept with a lot of girls. He's the care free Hey, let's let's smoke a bong. And have some fun. Guy. I think I think Paul knows the minute he leaves, his buddy is gonna take advantage of her. So I like the idea that he's gonna he's gonna knock him out literally and figuratively, he's gonna put him to sleep.

14:26 So I guess if you look at it that way, I see it differently. Yeah. Yeah, I looked at it like that because then the alarm on his face when she's like, oh, hey, let's let's let's share, you know, and he's like, oh, you shouldn't do that, don't mix, and. No, you didn't like this, I'm gonna put this away. Yeah. Yeah, And he stays longer than he's supposed to because of because she does pass out and he's worried about her. So I thought. I thought it was a classy move that he I always looked at it that he was protecting limits from his friend. Okay, I didn't look at it that way, but that's a good way. Oh. I was gonna. I was gonna say, let's talk about Philip Edwards, the creepy pastor this guy? What about him? Jeff, come on, tell me, tell me what you think about this guy.

15:08 You know, uh, I don't even know how I could how I can have a any kind of good thought about him because of that the hair first off, right, Yeah, this is this is one of those reveals where you know you almost think like when when when he first shows up, you know, Elena is at like the books book sale from the church he pops up, I almost think like, oh, this is gonna be our our good guy that maybe she gravitates to. Maybe he saves her quote unquote, maybe he's like the wholesome not it's weird to say wholesome affair, but maybe he's the wholesome affair that she needs. Kind of like a kind of debor winger in terms of endearment where she hooks up with the John Lithgow, but he's not that guy. He he ends up at the key party later and when she kind of calls him out on it, he's like, hey, sometimes a shepherd's got to check in on the flock, or he says some cheesy seventies.

16:07 The shepherd needs the comfort of the sheep. Yeah, well that's what it was. The sometimes the shepherd needs the comfort of the sheep. And she's like, I don't even want to try to you know, talk what that might mean? Right, Oh dude, really. Yeah, he's disgusting at that point, and I liked. I like the fact that he immediately realizes it, g gets his keys and leaves. He's out. Yeah, but all these people at this party hanging out and having a good time. Dude, this is Thanksgiving weekend and you've all left your kids. The weather man was on TV saying, hey, big ice storm is coming, and these are bad parents. All of them are all of them are?

16:47 I mean, I know this is the seventies, but come on, man. I worry about the seventies children. Now. I was born in seventies, but oh I was too. Yeah, but I mean we turned out okay. But man, yep, we don't live in Connecticut though, so maybe that's maybe that's what it is. No offense to anyone listening in Connecticut at all. We love Connecticut. Yeah, I'll tell you who I love in the movie. We mentioned earlier, mikey Elijah Wood, you know, pre Frodo Baggins. Yep. I liked him, but there was just elements of him. I was like, is he okay? Like when he went to playing football, went to catch the football and he just kind of like drifts off into space. Yeah, I'm like, what's going on here? I mean I don't think he was looking at anybody in particular by the way I was looking at that. Am I wrong?

17:39 No, he he just kind of spaced out. Yeah, I don't know what was that about. But I also, look, I'm cool with the fact that you're into nature and science, but you also have Christina Ricci's your girlfriend, and if you're not going to give her attention, she said to your little brother, So you, dude, make up your mind you want to be a you know, is it sciences at girls? Because you can't have both when you're fourteen years old. You can't. When you get to college years, yeah, you can start focusing a little bit more on something else. But yeah, dude, she controls him the whole time. I like, even after he finds out what she did with his little brother in the bathroom, Yep, she leaves, you know, because Sigourne we was like, you know, kicks her out.

18:25 More or less. He chases after to say, I never to see you again. Why are you following me? I mean it's like burn after burn, Like she's just on him with it. But that's so typical. You know that that is that is a that is a teenager's dialogue. Oh yeah, oh yeah, so again credit to the writer's Credit to ang Lee. They definitely captured what what what it's like to be that age, you know, and not in like, not in the wholesome TV sitcom way, but in the gritty, real anyway. I feel like, yeah, well, ang Lee, and I guess we could start talking about him a little bit. He's known, which is probably why a couple reasons why he got this film. But he's known for like intimate drama themes and depicting characters with conflicting feelings about their sexuality. So you know, this film is written for him if you really think about it. So I'm not surprised to see that he's really good at directing stuff like that.

19:25 Hey, before we talking Lee, can we mention one more? I mean this this is packed with some stellar actors and actresses, but and we don't have time to talk about all of them, but we gotta talk about one last one. Okay, did you happen to catch Kate Burton as one of the friends at the party? Oh yeah, I played Dorothy Franklin. Yes, yeah, uh, and we know her. We know a lover as Margot Litzenberger from Big Trouble, Little Giant. I didn't recognize Yeah, I didn't reckon that. Yeah, I didn't recognize her at first because the curly red hair is gone and she's got like the straight blonde hair that's like pulled back. But I was like, why does she look so familiar?

20:07 I did not think about that. And that's her, That's Margo. Yeah, she's no longer sitting on the top side with Eddie and Uncle Chew. Not anymore. She's going to six party exactly. Shame on you, Mark, Margot. What has happened to you? Yeah? I always happy to see Margo in another another film. But back to this film. Let's talk a little bit about how this came about, Dave. You got some you got some background on the on on how the Ice Storm Kate went from from book to screen. Yeah, just just a little bit. So, like I said this, it was from the acclaimed ninety nine a novel by Rick Moody who had written this book and the James Seamus, who was the screenwriter for this film, actually reached out to ang Lee because he had seen his previous work and knew that he was the director of probably would be best at bringing this to the screen, so he brought it to him and ang Lee read it and he stated that what attracted him to this book was actually its climax, the scene where Ben Hood makes a shocking discovery in the ice, followed by the emotional reunion of the Hood family on the morning after the storm, and that's why he really wanted to bring this film to life. So they did take it to Fox Searchlight Pictures, who released it in nineteen ninety seven, but they filmed it in New Canaan, Connecticut. Back in nineteen ninety six.

21:39 The film had a budget of eighteen million would earned seventy five thousand opening weekend, which isn't a lot of money, but it was limited release at the time. It got nationally released in November and ended up making like eighteen million dollars. Did win some awards, and for you folks who are probably around our age, will remember Gene Ciscol and Roger Ebert. Oh Yeahbert, yep. Both of them actually gave this film two thumbs up, with Ebert calling it Lee's best to work at, in Ciskel calling it its favorite film. Of nineteen ninety seven favorite. Film of nineteen ninety seven. Well, I don't know if I agree with him. I mean, you gotta remember nineteen ninety seven Joel Schumacher gave us Batman and Robin he did.

22:27 I don't, I don't boy, not good Will Honey Mine. Good Will was good Will Hunting nineteen ninety seven. Good Will Honey was nice. That Titanic was nineteen ninety seven. Okay, so you know you got Kevin Klein in this, and you got him in In and Out. You got Matt Damon in The rain Maker, and good Will Hunting. A lot of good stuff. That your manly confidential life is beautiful. Jackie Brown, Jackie Brown, I mean, come on, So. Ciskel liked this movie more than as good as it gets. Yeah, with Jack Nicholson, Yeah, that's what he said. I'm going to respectfully disagree with Cisco. I think there's better out there. La Confidential.

23:09 Yeah. I can't forget that one. Yeah, I don't know. That's the song. I can't film that year. I can't tell you what the best movie nineteen ninety seven is off the top of my head. But but I can't tell you that there's enough in contention that I couldn't say the ice storm. I put the ice storm in the conversation, but I wouldn't say, oh yeah, it's definitely so Dave. I know we talked about the bathroom scene making making us uncomfortable. Let's talk about some likes. Uh, what were there some were there some scenes that you really liked? Were there's some performances that you really liked? Give me, give me a give me Dave Byrne's likes on the ice storm. So I don't know if this was meant to happen, but here's here's what I take. So, remember when the key party is over, Elena and is Jim they go out, did they go out to the car? They kind of start to do their thing, and then they realize that it's you know, probably not a good idea. So she goes back into the house to check on her husband well, and you know, obviously he's in the bathroom, you know, having a tough time to go. So you know, she has a little bit of conversation with him, but then you know, she basically talks to me to staying there and that you know, she's going to go home. I don't know if this is the intention of Angley. But when she walks out of the bathroom, she starts to close the door, but doesn't shut the door all the way, leaves it open. To me, I don't know if it was intended, but to me, it feels like that was her basically saying that she's not giving up on him.

24:38 She's not closing the door on on him. That's the way I took it. So if that is the case, that was my favorite scene. I loved that. Just that simple thing of not closing the door. On him, that is profound. I didn't even think about that. But yeah, the fact that she immediately regrets what she did in the car mm hmm, she goes back. Yeah, because her whole struggle throughout the movie is will you know because we we we learned that they've been in couples. Therapy for a while, right, and then they quit? Yeah, and then they quit and I you know, she clearly looks like she's at a point of giving up. But that simple gesture with the door, I didn't even pick up on that. That's that's brilliant. And uh, if that was intentional, then wow. And if it wasn't intentional, well, you just made a whole lot of a whole lot of lists. You know, people are gonna be stealing that from you. Man, Yeah, what about you?

25:38 What was your favorite? Hmmm, that's a tough one because you know, well, I can't top what you just said, because now you know, I'm thinking, whoa that that was a great scene for me. It might be you know, Toby Maguire taking care of Kitty Holmes and kind of you know you got you got Elton John playing in the background and just seeing him his righteousness, like there's a look on his face that he just seems proud of himself for doing the right thing. Maybe so it might be that to go into a darker moment though. One of the first times you see Sigourney Weaver and Kevin Kleine after they've just had an affair, but he's just laying there kind of talking about his problems, and then she just cuts him off quickly and she's like, hey, you're boring me. I have a husband. I don't need another one. Just the way she eviscerates him in that moment. Again, I said, like, I really had a hard time liking her, but I you know, I love for what it's worth. I think the women in this movie are really powerful.

26:49 An he's good at. Hey, yeah, he's great at this, whether you like morally, whether you like what they're doing or not morally. When you're talking about Joe Allen, when you're talking about Christina Ricci, when you're talking about Sigourney Weaver, they seem to always be in control and just have a great way of dominating the men in this movie and putting them in their place right time and time again. So I like that one too. So anything other than the uncomfortable bathroom scene at being in the movie that doesn't sit well. With you, that's obviously, that's the biggest one that doesn't sit well with me for a good reason, you know, and it needed to be there to help drive those characters. But I'm kind of torn because you know what a big music buffy on when it comes to music scores and stuff like that. So Michael Dana, who did the music for this film, his music was really really good, don't get me wrong, but there are elements of the score that I felt was almost too Asian, too Native American for this type of film. I don't know what that instrument is, but you know what I'm talking about I is too. He goes to it quite quite a bit.

28:01 It almost felt like it didn't fit the film, but then at other times it felt like it did fit the film. So I'm kind of torn it. I you know, I immediately picked up on that at the beginning of watching this because it's it's similar. You know, we had talked a couple weeks ago. We talked about Thrown of Blood, and we talked about that no style of filmmaking, or I should say a theater, not filmmaking, that no style of theater where they it's very minimalist. And then even the drum and the flute, it's all very minimal And maybe it's because Kirasawa was fresh in my mind when when I watched this recently. But you're right that that minimalist flute drum combo. It's beautiful when you hear it, but it does seem out of place in nineteen seventy three Connecticut, right, And for what it's worth, I'm glad they could easily just drown on this movie in you know, classic seventies, you know, early seventies disco rock, and I'm glad they have they didn't, you know, you have you hear a little bit of it at the at the key party, you hear you know, obviously you hear Elton John at Katie Holmes place. But other than that, you don't hear any And I'm glad me too, but yeah, I'll agree with you. While the music's beautiful, maybe feels a little out of place with the with the subject matter.

29:32 So you want to talk a little bit about ang Lee? This is episode it is. It is let's are we gonna talk about the ending first? Or do we want to talk about ang Lee? Because there's a little bit about the ending that I would like to talk about of the film. You know what you are now the co host, so uh, you know, you call the shot, we will. You will talk about whatever you want. To talk about. I like, I like to talk a little bit about the ending. All right, let's do it. So if anybody who's not watched the film, go watch it first and then come back and listen to this podcast, because we don't want to ruin anything for you. They've had time. It's this came out in ninety seven, ninety seven, got plenty of time, plenty of time. But obviously, you know, with the simple death and you kind of knew where the film was going. I didn't read the book. So when Elijah With's character went out into the ice storm, and you know, and he's on the I guess what is the the diving board, I'm guessing is what that was that he's playing with. He's playing with death already.

30:26 Can we can we talk about that scene? Oh my gosh, that was like so intense. Like I was on the edge of my seat that whole time. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Yeah, listen, And that's again it is shot brilliantly because my heart was in my throat. Yep, you know. He again, he's he he's he's got such a passion for science and nature. So I think he tells his little brother he's going outside because because of the molecules, everything stops everything. So, yep, you can just breathe pure you know, oxygen. That's fine enough if you want to go check out the trees and the power lines and see all the ice. This guy is on the diving board, on the ice covered diving board, in snow gloshes and in an empty pool. Yeah, and he's kind of sort of slipping around and then he starts to hop yeah, and then catches himself and I was like, he's like it's like he's like a daredevil.

31:27 I'm like, get off the board. I'm freaking out because I thought for sure he was a slip crack his head and be dead in the pool. Yeah, I mean it angly, it's such a good job of directing that scene because there again, you hear just the elements of the weather. You hear like the ice, you know, and he's like sliding all over the place, and the way the camera was angled, You're like, Okay, this is where it's gonna happen. I mean, I didn't know his character is that's I mean, I knew his character probably was going to die, but I thought that was going to be the spot, and I was pleasantly surprised when it didn't happen. But then and when he's out walking around, you know, and gets on the guard rail, then you see that power line. Soon as I saw that power line, like and here we go. So you saw, you know, here's what I because I hadn't I hadn't read the book either. So after that that intense moment on the diving board, yep, and he has basically cheated death. I feel at this point, okay, Elijah would he's invincible. He and we've liked him the whole movie, right this, this kid hasn't done a single thing that you can disagree with, you know, and he's even being safe, like he's kind of slide, slowly sliding down the road. Yeah, so trying to walk. I'm like, this kid's okay, we're good.

32:39 And he dressed it properly. I mean he was almost appropriately. Yeah, sitting on a guard well one hundred feet away, and then to see what happens. Yeah, and just that quick shot of his eyes where he realizes it before before I mean, it's too late he realizes it, but it's happening as he realizes it. Yeah, I was like, whoa, and it's shot. Yeah, It's so simple. And so they just when when he died and the body just started to slide all that, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was hard. I mean it was that was rough. And then just slow face down sliding down the asphalt. I'm like, oh, come on. Yeah, yeah, that was that was tough to watch. And then of course when Kevin Klein is the one who finds him and and he brings him back home and it just that's where you know, the chaos starts to erupt.

33:29 But one of the things that I really loved about the ending, and I think this is why ang Lee's, like I said earlier, is why Angley jumped on this was because the climax of the film, when it just how subtle it was when they go to the train station to to pick up Paul. You know, he gets off gets off the train, and nobody says anything to him. It's just you know, it's just eye contact back and forth, you know, and you can kind of tell. I think Paul realizes something's wrong, so then he comes down to him, you know, and then they basically walk to the car. They get into the car and then you know, Kevin Kline's just sitting there in the front seat and everybody's in there, and it's like that when Kevin Kleine just turns and like looks back at his son and then turns back and just breaks down. I love that ending.

34:13 I mean, I know powerful, it was very powerful, and I know they're probably people are like, well, there could have been more. No, there couldn't have been more. No. That was the perfect spot to end that film because right then and there. You've gone this whole time with Kevin Klein's character. You know, you've seen what he's been going through, and at that moment, he finally realizes what the hell have I been doing and he breaks down. Yeah. I think it's I think it's really smart that they didn't cut back to either Paul or Wendy in the back seat after he starts crying to see their reaction to it. I love that at that point when you when you just cut to black, I'm like, you you're you're just you know, it's a gut punch, it is, I don't know, you know, You're you're thinking, what this poor family. You know, you hope that they'll become a stronger family for what's happened, but there's no guarantee that is going to happen. You know, And we've.

35:10 Discussed before in some other podcast where you know, the director explains stuff too much and you're taking stuff something from your audience. This is a perfect example of being not explaining everything to your audience and just leaving the ending for your audience to fill in the blanks with the rest of that story. And I love that. So let's talk a little bit about Angley. Sure, because he's got he's got a very impressive filmography. Yeah, Now he leaves Dave. You mentioned his earlier work, so i'll reference that. So he leaves Taiwan in nineteen seventy five, he hits America, ends up at New York University getting his master's degree in film production. Meets another soon to be famous Lee, Spike Lee.

35:57 Spike Lee. Yeah, he's assistant director for Spike Lee student film in nineteen eighty three, which I think that's pretty cool. That is really cool. I mean, that's why I'd love to see these guys get back together again, because you know what's good happen. Yep. But yeah, yeah, you mentioned his his pension for like family topics. So his first three movies right out the right out the gates, it's kind of known as the Taiwanese Culture Generational Trilogy. One. They got a lot of RECOGNI the all three films got a lot of recognition, got a lot of awards. But it's not until nineteen ninety five he hits mainstream Hollywood with his uh Best Picture nominated Sense and Sensibility was it Emma Thompson and that? Yeah, did you see that one.

36:42 You know, I have not seen that film. Surprisingly, I know. I believe that was a Jane Austen novel. I believe, but. Yeah, yeah, Jane Austin. Yep. I was hoping you could give us a little bit of dramatic cinematic weight here because I haven't seen it either, So shame on both of us. Both of us are such a big classic film of not saying. I promise I will now go back and see it me too. All Right, Well, you know, obviously we're talking about the Ice Storm. He does that two years later in ninety seven. Let's skip ahead another two years of Dave his movie Ride with the Devil in nineteen ninety nine. Now, I know you saw that. Of course I've seen that because I know that there has some connections to something I love, and you know that's the Civil War in the history, you know where we joined. I believe it was what I can't think of a bushwhacker's name. I think is it in Kansas?

37:32 I think it was. I can't say yes or no because I didn't see the movie. It's basically a militanty two for me, A militant group loyal to the Confederacy is what it was about. I can't belie, I cannot believe. I can't remember the the who it was about, but I know it was Toby Maguire again. Yeah, and it was he alteredge. Yeah. And what in't Jewel in it? Also? Jewel was in it? Also? Yes, it was a It was a pretty good film. I would highly recommend that, Jeff. So, since you've not seen Since Sensibility, I recommend you do some homework. You go see Since and Stibility, which I will do, and you watch Ride with the Devil is two. Right, Well, a year later now I know we both have seen this one because he made a lot of noise. Yeah, tons of Oscar nominations. This thing swept the nominee nominations.

38:20 Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Yep, great film. I think it's it's sensational. I've always loved it. It's one of those I'll always always I have to watch at least, you know, at least once or twice a year. M h, it's it's it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's a beautiful film. I don't know what else to say about its amazing performances. Though definitely opened up my eyes to a lot more. Oh yeah, I didn't know much about Michelle Yaoo. I saw her in that film. I'm like, who is this? Because she is amazing and sure enough, I mean after this movie, her career took off too. Yeah, I remember, I remember seeing it. I remember looking at and going, I don't know, this looks kind of pretentious.

39:06 I went in for Chowion fat because I know, Yeah, always loved his stuff in John Wuyep John wo movies, but was pleasantly surprised. And yeah, I can't say enough good things about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Sadly, there are few things, few good things I can say about his next his next film, two thousand and three. We We We comic book movie fans, get what we were, not what we were exactly hoping for Angley's Hulk. This should have worked, right, You've got Eric Banna playing Bruce Banner, perfect casting in my opinion. The trailer. I still to this day remember the trailer where it was just that simple shot of him looking in the bathroom mirror yep and trying to control himself, and I thought, oh my god, this is gonna be so it's gonna be an epic movie.

40:03 Nick Nolty cast a great cast, a terrible film. Yeah, unfortunately, just you know, it's one of those like you even want to go back and say, hey, it's a superhero movie. It's been a while, I'll go revisit it. No, you should not revisit it. I'm sorry, and. I just I think Angley realized that wasn't something he should be going after, and which is why he returned to something he really knows, and that would be Broke Back Mountain, which was his next film. Yeah, so that the next big film. Yeah to two thousand and five. I'm not a big fan of that movie, but it is a really good Yeah, it's a really good film. Don't get me wrong. It's another one of those movies that were like, I've seen it once and I don't really want to revisit it, at least maybe not right now, but maybe later down the road I probably would. He's a really good film directed well, you know, so.

40:56 Well he won he won the Best Director. Yeah, yeah, I remember. You know, obviously a lot of controversy about the subject matter, of course, but I was I thought to myself, it's got to be good. I mean, it's you know, I've seen what Ainley can do. And you've got some amazing actors in this. I'll tell you right now. I actually went to the theater alone, saw this by myself, and it was one of those movies obviously you're not expecting Easter eggs at the end of the credits. I sat there the whole time just watching the credits role and listen to music and just kind of absorbing what I had seen. Yeah, sensational movie. Absolutely, I cannot say enough good about it. Let's jump to twenty twelve. He gets another Best Director when for Life of Pie? Now did you see that one?

41:46 I have not what I know how big of a film that is. I know what it's about, but I have never seen it, just the whole tiger stuff that they went through to film. I believe it's a I don't know the main character's name, but he's like train it on a boat with a tiger. Is that correct? Yeah, he's it's like a small boat. And when I say small, it's like the tiger's almost on him. You know. It's such a good movie though. I again, it shot very beautifully and you would you would think, like cgi tiger, you know, are they gonna make it look real enough for one second. I never thought like, oh yeah, that's not real. It felt real the whole time. So that was one of that. You know, I did see it once.

42:31 I haven't seen it since, you know, so I saw. I saw it in twenty twelve, so it's been ten years. But I would definitely recommend that one, and I would definitely go back and see that one again. This, you know, just speaking about Angley in his filmography, it makes me want to see these films so that I've done, and it almost makes me like I can't believe I've not seen that. It's like a little embarrassing, but I'm gonna go back and watch them, I promise. Yeah. Well, just a couple of years ago, twenty nineteen, he put out The Gemini. Man, I gotta be honest, not only at first I wanted to see it because of the whole gimmick Will Smith against young Will Smith. Yeah, and just because the technology they at that point they have figured out the digital, the aging.

43:13 I was entertained by it. Okay, so you saw so I haven't seen it. It's just it's just like all I can remember is that it's a clone of himself. You know, he worked for this organization where he think he kills people and he wants to retire, but they won't let him retire, so they have cloned him and they send the clone after him to killing. That's basically what it's about. So he's so good at his job. Yeah, they don't want to let him go. Yeah, so they cloned him and they bring they send the clone after to killing. And it's really good. It's got some really good action sequences, which again ang Lee is really good at. And you're right, the younger uh c g I version of Will Smith has done really well. Like there there's when they're fighting each other, you're like, holy crapic not believe they filmed this and made it look this good.

44:03 So yes, it's streaming on Hulu right now. So if you're telling me give it a watch, I'll I will, I'll put it, I'll put on the list. It's not like award winning movie or anything like that, like Life of Pie or you know, any sensitis Ability or anything like that, but it's it's an entertaining movie. I enjoy it. Good action, flip sci fi. Yeah right, I'm up for that. So, since we're talking about Angley's filmography, Jeff, what what's he got next on the on the plate? Actually I do, I do know about this. I know we like to talk about like what we'd like to see next. Uh he does have something in development that I am very excited for. The title of the film is called Thrilla in Manila, which from that I'm sure you have you figured out it's all about the uh Ali Frasier fight in the Philippines. Okay, yeah, yeah, so right now, no one attached to star. It's, like I said, it's in development, so who knows. But it's perfect because you know, we talk about what we'd like to see the director do next. I feel like, based on his body of work, I think he is best when he's doing subject matter that's that hits closer to home, real people, real problems. Yep. So I've always wanted to see what he could do in a biography type situation, and this I kind of feel like it's gonna be as like a close, you know, substitute for a biography. But you because I always wanted to seeingly do a biography maybe

45:35 on like soun Sue or or something like that. Yeah, you know, but I'm happy to see what he could do with Ali and Fraser. Well, I mean, he excels at that kind of stuff. So the fact that he is doing it, that's going to be a brilliant film. I have a feeling that's on me. He might be revisiting the Oscars after that one. Absolutely absolutely. Now, if if you're his agent, what would you want to see him do next? What project would you turn him onto? David you kind of already touched on it a little bit, you know, sticking with a biography. Who that would be? I'm not sure, but try to find some true story somewhere that And you know, he's really good at female stories.

46:20 I'm not saying he's good at other stories too, you know, but he's really good about bringing the strength of a woman to the screen and showing just how powerful they are. And I find another woman somewhere I know, and I don't say I would be this one. But what about Amelia Earhart? You know, I know we've had some movies about her, but something like that. I'm not saying her, but something in those on that line. Just do a biography of a famous female person in history and let that be his next film, because I think he has such potential in that area and it would bring him another offer.

47:01 Okay, I like that. Uh. And if there's been movies about Emlia Earhart, either they're they're good and they're small or are there not good? Because I I can't recover for seeing one. I can't, you know, so I could Uh, I could go for that too. I would definitely watch those movies. As far as watching this one, what do you does this get the the Dave Burns recommendation? Do you do you want to. See this movie? It's it's well worth your time to watch it. Absolutely. Any final thoughts about the movie day that you want to share. No, I mean, just another quality product from ang Lee from beginning to end. If you've noticed the stuff that we didn't like that it really isn't that bad. It isn't you know, It's just part of the film. Uh you know. So it's a really good film, great cast, well written, well directed. Uh So, definitely check it out.

47:54 I could not say it better. I caught this on on Amazon Prime. I you know, I didn't own a copy of it, so I rented it. Cost me a couple of bucks. I didn't see that it was streaming free anywhere, but it is out there. So whether you want to buy a physical copy, which I tend to recommend, you know, especially if I like the movie, I'm gonna get one. But if you're curious and you want to check it out, pull up a Google, pull up YouTube, pull up Amazon Prime, spend a couple of bucks and enjoy this because it is definitely one to see and as far as one want to hear, you can check us out. All of our episodes are streaming free. You can go to www dot a film by podcast dot com.

48:37 You can always get a hold of us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com. I always love hearing your feedback, always love hearing your suggestions. As always, if you contact us with a suggestion and we use it, we will gladly send you out one of these limited a film by t shirts. Get you some stickers, some mother fun swag uh and if you want to see what we got always coming up next, you can check us out on social media at a film by Podcast on both Facebook and Twitter. That will wrap it up for us. We are coming back pretty strong in the month of June. We're gonna get a little sci fi action talking. We got uh, we got Tim Burton. I think we got Tim Burton coming next, Is that right, Mark?

49:27 Or is it? Uh? Colin Trevoro. It's safety guaranteed with. Safety, safety not guaranteed. Yeah, we got Tre's got a little dinosaur movie coming out soon, I think, right, A little one, Yeah, a little one yeah, an indie. Yeah. So we'll we talk well, we'll talk about Colin Trevor and then we'll definitely get to Tim Burton. We'll have some fun in the in the month of June, but uh, as always. Uh first, thank you Dave for for filling in for my my co host, co creator of the of the podcast, Brad Kozo. I think you will be a wonderful substitute, probably getting back sooner when he starts hearing what you're doing, because he's gonna go, all right placed if I'm going.

50:09 To now, it was great to be here. Thank you, awesome. All right, We'll see you guys next time.