Bill Paxton - Frailty

0:00 I'm gonna start off with a tough question. I want you to think about the mini amazing performances that Bill Paxton gave us and give me your favorite one. Oh man, it's not easy. It is not easy. I honestly, it's not a big part. But I think my favorite is Simon in True Lies. He is so thinking funny in that movie. Like he's such a cur it's oh.

0:43 My gosh, Like just the fact that like, you know, he's lying and I don't. And then like when Arnold confronts this. Whole thing is what about the husband's if they're in business, I'm out of business, you know whatever? He says. So funny in that movie. Great pick, great, really great pick. You know he did do more than just act, though. He directed a couple of great films, and I want to talk about one of them today. So let's talk about a film by Bill Paxton, his two thousand and one underrated directorial debut, the psychological crime thriller Frailty. Hello, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm Amber Lewis, and this is a film by podcast Amber Lewis is back.

2:02 Uh for it's been a while, for for how long has yet to be determined because Amber, during her first time watch of today's topic, she sent me some concerning text messages about this film. Amber the Angel visited me last night and told me something I don't want to believe. But together, we're going to prove him wrong. I hope, because. I was. I was shocked. I was shocked by your initial comments and then I was like, I told you, just like stick with it. You don't you have you don't You don't know yet. I mean, I don't know. I still haven't. A hundred changed my mind.

2:43 But well, you said something at the at the very end of that conversation that alluded to the fact that you need to you need another watch, you need to rewatch. Yes, it was my intention to rewatch it again this afternoon. I ran out of time, but. Put put a pin in that thought. And I want to I want to get to that later, Okay, But before we get into it, I would like to welcome some new Patreon members talking about Chris Connell and one can possibly slow Runner. Very very unique user name there, and you're not alone, Cam. I happened to run about as fast as paint drives, so I don't run ever does it run? She's like now I'm not doing.

3:31 I mean, you know, if a cheat is chasing you, the cheat is going to catch you, so then you would just be tired and dead at the same time. Well, okay, maybe a cheetah. But this is a movie podcast. What if a dinosaur or like a slasher, like a killing machine like Michael Myers is chasing you. You I mean, that's like a speed walking situation. I could speed walk past Mike Myers, no problem, you think. All right, yeah, well we'll address that in October. So then listen. If you want to get all the exclusive episodes that are available on our Patreon, jump in like Chris Connell or one can possibly slow runner. Sign up for a free membership first Amber, you know, check it out, see what you like. Sign on, you can do the free colore.

4:24 You know we're gonna fuck you're right in. Yeah, we have got so much content on there now. I don't know if you've looked at that, but yes, got like a collection there. Yeah, got a nice collection going there, so check it out. Uh patreon dot com slash a film by podcast. So it's Paxton Month on the film by podcast. Bill Paxton born on May seventeenth. We love Bill, and we decided why not devote a whole month to him. Yes, we haven't done this before Amber, not not with any director, not with any actor or actress. Kind of dig the fact that that leading the way is Bill Paxton. Yes, let's uh, let's talk about Bill for a little bit. I'm gonna give you three facts and then a quote from the man so hitting you with a fun one right off you And I know you know this, Amberg, but I'm just gonna say it.

5:19 Anyways, Please don't tell me he's from Texas, like we all know this. No, no, no, no, nothing like that. But Bill Paxton is in fact the only actor to be killed on screen by a terminator, an alien, and a predator. He's think about that. The three Juggernaut Juggernaut franchises, He's the only one that has that claim to fame. Cool. I know this kind of ties into today's episode. Uh, given that we're talking about frailty. Paxton was fascinated by forensics and uh he said, if one of those TV shows was on, he was stopping what he was doing and he was watching it. Oh a man after my own heart.

6:01 Yeah, so you love those forensic files. It shows right true Crime. You love it? What about Pat Benatar? Are you a fan? Do you love her? Heck? Yeah, are you kidding? I'm a child of the eighties. Did you know that Bill Paxton learned to speak a little bit of German for his role in her music video Shadows of the Night in nineteen eight two. I can't believe you was in that video. Oh my god. Yes, he's straight to YouTube after this. You've got to do it. It's it's such a fun video. He's not the only Judge. Ryinhold's in it. Also, Pat Benatar, she kind of like she leads a mission into a Nazi compound to blow it up. Packson plays one of the German officers.

6:42 I have no memory of this video. And he's got like the he's got like the Chet flat top from Weird Science Happening. Oh my gosh. Yeah, So you. Talk about, like, uh defining role. There was a long time where I could not stand to look at him because of Chet. Because of Chet. It's so disgusting. Chet was great, Hey, dudes, all right? So on making Frailty, Paxton said, quote, I did like the title frailty. It's just a one word title, like notorious or vertigo. Or Psycho Frailty, And then after a beat, he continued and said, how would old Hollywood handle this kind of material? They'd have handled it in a Robert Aldrich Alfred hitchcockway. So think about watching like and I get it, you had a first time watch and there's a lot thrown at you, this and this, what is it? Ninety nine minutes? Ninety eight minutes, which I.

7:45 Do love movies like that, like a tight in and out do you business? This easily could have been like a two and a half hour movie. And I'm so glad it's not. It didn't need no huh. You know, a lesser director would a bog it down in like the flashback scenes or you know the stuff with the FBI. No, Paxton is keeping us moving right along. It's all the more better for it. But yeah, but now that you're I say that, all right, now that now that I've I've told you Bill Paxton's inspiration was Hitchcock. Thinking about the movie, can you see some of these scenes playing with a Hitchcock vibe?

8:25 I mean there's one scene in particular, yes, But the rest of it, to me was one hundred percent of Stephen king short story funny. You should mention that name. More on that later. Oh really, yeah, now, because I even looked it up to see, like, is it based on a short story? And I just don't remember because this is very Stephen King. Well it's not. Okay, I'll just save you the suspense. It's not based It's not based on a Stephen King short story. It actually was based on a real serial killer who had had his son I think there's I think there's only one son, but had his son help him, and when he was caught, he explained that he was doing God's work. God told him to murder these people. Yeah, but I got I got that's I got a Stephen King nugget for you. I'm gonna kick that. I'm gonna kick that down the road. I know, I know. Like, like I said, this is a little bit of an underrated film. So for the listeners who are probably getting ready for a rewatch or maybe have never seen it, let him know what Frailty is all about it.

9:34 Like me, I had never even heard about it. A mysterious man arrives at the offices of an FBI agent and recounts his childhood how his religious fanatic father received visions telling him to destroy people who were in fact demons. Bill Paxton said, this film is about faith, family and the loss of innocence, and that that's an Amber Loo synopsis right there. I mean, it's his movie, so sure, but I don't know. You don't know yet. Well after he read the script, he was terrified of playing the role of the father, wondering who was going to direct him. He tells the producer it would be important to know the character, how far to let him go and not go with it and what is subtle? And this producer, who happened to be his good buddy, David Kirshner, I agree with him.

10:32 And that's when Paxton surprised him by telling him he wanted to be the one to direct it. I liked that he stepped up. He was like, he was so concerned about who to work with on this project. He's like, uh, work with myself. Well. And I think it's always interesting when an actor, especially one who had already had a very long and successful career, decides to move into directing, Like what is the first thing they direct? You know? I just find that like, what is this choice? Why did you make this choice? You know? And I think he probably felt so strongly about how he wanted that dad to be played that he just knew, like I can do it and I can keep control of it.

11:20 Well, you know, the movie has a real Old Testament vibe to it, and as the audience, we're putting Paxton's character on trial for the whole movie because we don't know, you know, is he a religious savior or is he a psychopath? And I'm going to ask you without you know, because I don't you know, I don't know how much we want to spoil this movie. I don't. I definitely tricky. I don't want to spoil the end, like the last ten minutes. Okay, we can, we can. We can talk about a couple of things because this is like it came out two weeks ago, but let's not. Let's not spoil the ending. Okay, well, because it is. I mean, what for me kind of redeemed the whole movie. Yeah, Okay, I thought so. I thought so. But watching this your first time, though, were you completely on the side of his his son fitting or were you was there a party? Okay, you're one hundred percent.

12:13 In your Yeah, because even like I love that that it was set in seventy nine. That's not like a year that you usually flashed back to. So I thought that was interesting, and it's enough modern age that like why is nobody going to a doctor? Why? What? Uh huh? And you know there they've got to be a little bit religious because the younger brother was already singing like one of those Johnny Cash religious songs, you know, but there was nothing. Yeah, there was nothing to indicate like complete lunacy. But so you're you're not even You're not even like there's not even a party that's going What if God spoke to Bill Paxton and told him like, like.

13:02 If an angel came to me, I would not be one hundred percent I'm going to do whatever this angel said, I'm going to go to a doctor and get an MRI. Well, you know, even even even Fitton tells him at the dinner at the dinner table, he's like, you know, maybe maybe you're not right in the head. Dad, Yeah, I know, maybe you dreamt it and it was the middle of the night. I you know, he's under a tremendous amount of stress. He's a single father, you know, so he's he's so great in this film. He's so straight at towing that line between like showing you how terrified he is and showing you how like completely crazy he is.

13:43 Yeah, I want like I remember the first time I saw this, I I was in the camp of, well, this guy's lost it. He's crazy, like he's I really thought it was. Gonna turn out like he had a tumor or something. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm just like, well, I want to believe him though, I want to know that he's doing the Lord's work. I want to believe in him. But he's a psychopath, is my like, my first reaction, and that first when I first what I. Find so upsetting about the movie and what I don't like is it's it's a ninety minute movie, and a good forty five minutes of it is child abuse and manipulation. And I cannot stomach any of this.

14:24 I knew this would be. I knew that would be the aspect that you would find difficult with this film. The punishments as they were, and we'll get to those when we talk not where the scenes, but jumping back to the beginning, I love the opening credit sequence with the vintage photos. Oh my gosh, I see and that's I also felt a little bitrayed because I was like sucked in. The music was so good and that credit sequence was amazing. Those those pictures, those actually came from true crime magazines that Bill Paxton had collected. Oh my gosh, I love it. So and then but and you mentioned Brian Tyler's score compliments it so well, it's just it gives the movie like this foreboding energy.

15:06 Yes, I was suspecting a movie more like something like Malice. Okay, so you were, you were signed up for. For a thriller, but like atmospheric Okay, I don't know. I kind of I get lot. I feel like a lot of atmospheric, Like I like, I love that half the movie takes place in nineteen seventy nine, and it has that that feel to it. It feels it feels old. You know, it doesn't. Nothing's crisp, nothing's nice and shiny. Yes, you know, Amber, Let's take a quick break and when we get back, we got to talk about some very incredible performances from some very incredible actors. Welcome back, Amber Lewis and myself discussing Bill Paxton's directorial debut, Frailty. So we were talking a little bit about out Bill Paxton, the director, Bill Paxton, the man. Let's talk about Bill Paxton as the dad, you know, like, like we said, he he's a wonderful father, even in the darker moments of this film, like when he first reveals the family's purpose to the boys. I love that moment where young Adam questions whether they're superheroes and to relate to him, he agrees and he says, yeah, there we're a family of superheroes that are gonna save the world. And that shot.

16:28 Can we just talk about the shot for a quick second. Did you notice that Adam, who will be on the dad's side the entire movie, he's sitting next to him, Fenton is sitting across from them, and Fenton, who is not on board with this insane plan. Do you notice how the camera slowly pulls them away, like when you're looking at Bill Paxton. Did you know it's like the pullback where it's like they're separate. Yeah, what I'm. Saying, watch it. You know what, I'm gonna go ahead, and I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and tell you this because you mentioned like you know, he might maybe you need a rewatch. Bill Paxton himself said this movie was designed for multiple viewings because the first time you see it, he just wants you to jump into the world and kind of be overwhelmed and maybe a little shocked at what you see.

17:16 But then the next time you watch it, you'll start to pick up on all the clues and all the breadcrumbs, and they're scattered everywhere. I mean, I've seen it like fifty times, So there's so many subtle little things that you know McConaughey's doing, or Powers Booth is doing, or Bill Paxton's doing, where you're like, oh, I never saw that the first fourteen times. Yeah, but yeah, it's and it's shots like that where he specifically had his dop do that slow pullback to show you that Fenton is not on board with his father's plan and they're already separating. To what you were saying about him being a good father though, like I never for one second believed ert disbelieved his love for those boys, Yeah, you can't, like even the horrible abusive things that he does, like when he's looking at his son and he's panicked and he's like, I love you more than anything, Like you believe that.

18:19 Yeah, Well, well, like, and I know I'm not stepping on scenes, but I know, like what the whole you know, Finn's pretty pretty pissed when he gets into the dinner table and he's like he gave up on and he's like, I'll be back. Ooh, hey, I didn't mean it like that. Like he He's like, I didn't mean it like that, Like he doesn't want to hurt his son's feelings. So and it's even like like teaching Adam a lesson about right and wrong, like after the plan is is formed and Adam produces his own list of demons, which just happens to have the school bully on it, and he's like, come here, son, you know, listen, Destroying demons is a good thing, but killing people is wrong. Do you understand the difference? And you know, Adam's like, yeah, Dad, I get it. And meanwhile, Finton's like, you're both insane, You're you're psychos, you know. So, I like, even even when he's explaining right and wrong, you have to buy into what he's saying, like he he believes and you know, and and at this point we don't know should we believe or not? But more on that, Matthew.

19:23 Mcconne's talk about the end. Well, we could talk, we could talk about a little bit of it, but I just don't like the the end is. It's not like the usual suspects kind of kind of flavor to it, and I don't want to. I don't want to. Definitely, listeners, hang in there till the last second because you have. So let's talk about Matthew McConaughey. Is Fenton Meeks or is it Adam Meeks? You know, he's one of the adult children, like grown up in present day. McConaughey and Paxton become they become friends while working on Jonathan Mostel's film U five seven one. Paxton hires him because he was an up and coming star and he knew he could deliver an authentic Texas character. I mean, now, yeah, this was you know Matthew McConaughey, and you know that he we're at a point where he has basically become a character of himself. What did you think about Matthew McConaughey in this though, because he has not the Matthew McConaughey you've ever seen.

20:25 No, No, this is definitely very early days, you know, like time to kill era McConaughey, and that talent is just amazing. I was wondering, you know, like, which brother is he and are there really two brothers? Very good point, and. That's just how mysterious he is and how you know he's kind of telling you this story, but he's only really telling you what he want you to know. Yep. Well, it's this is where I feel like we're getting more of that Hitchcock vibe, because what even powers Booth says it, He's like, I think you're not telling me everything. Yes, but just keep talking and I'll figure out what it is. On Frailty, McConaughey said, it's a gothic horror picture and everyone loves to be scared, so it's got that flavor as well.

21:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I didn't think about the word gothic, but. Yeah, definitely. I think powers Booth is playing FBI agent Wesley Doyle. I have always loved powers Booth. Oh my god, can the man could do no wrong? A similar story to McConaughey's. So Bill met Powers on the set of Tombstone. Yeah they hit it off. Yeah, they hit They hit it off instantly. How do you not hit it off with Powers Booth. Do you not hit it off with Bill Paxton? Well, yeah, but same Yeah. Paxton named him as one of his favorite actors of all time, so he immediately thought of him for the role of Wesley Doyle. And he he talks about this, there's a making there's a great making of documentary on the DVD, and he talks about the idea of like, I've got this young and up, up and coming star in Matthew McConaughey, who is authentic Texas, and I'm pitting him against Powers Booth, who is the old school cool you know, he's been around the block, authentic Texas, and I'm gonna put him on a on a collision course. Yes, you know, a little cat and mouse game. And it's so good.

22:39 It's so good, especially because Powers Booth always has that air about him to me like he knows more than you do. He always knows more than you do. And so to see him in that position talking to McConaughey, and it's like, but do you though. Booth always has scary confidence and upsare what the role is, he always has it. I somebody struck me as the FBI agent that could just like squint you into a confession, Like he doesn't have to say anything. He just looks at you and you're like, yeah, I did it. I'm sorry. I'll tell you. Something that Paxton does really well in this film is keeping his shots tight on the actors. Because the close ups between McConaughey and powers Booth, I think they really helped build a tension in that office at the beginning. You know, we've got this stormy night.

23:27 Yeah, and I don't always like the camera being like up in some of his face, but yeah, this was used to good effects in the. Car too, he did. He did it a lot because Paxton said these two especially could hold a close up. I mean, yeah, rel not denying that. Two other stars we got to talk about. So let's start with Matt O'Leary, who's playing young Fenton Meeks. This kid, my gosh right. So steady work over the years in films like Lift for You or Die Hard. Uh. He did the Skyscraper movie with the Rock. He was in the Spy Kids franchise. I remember him from a fantastic Ryan Johnson film noir called Brick starring Joseph Gordon Levitt.

24:14 Have you ever seen that one? I've heard of it. I haven't seen it. Oh, we covered it a few seasons ago. Uh. He plays the best friend of Joseph Gordon Levitt, who helps solve the murder Amber. It's it's so good. I I I employed I love Joseph Gordon Lovitt anyway, So yeah. Yeah, well I know, I know there's another actor you love. Uh you know who plays the film's villain and leader of the bad guys, Young sweet, innocent Lucas Haas who is not sweet or innocent that that young in this movie, Brick. He's so good. Oh, he's so good you Oh my goodness. Now you're gonna watch it. Then you're gonna go back.

24:56 You gotta listen to that episode. Yes, I think we did it around the time I'm the Knives Out sequel came out. I think we've got timed it to drop when glass Onion was hidden, So it's been like probably two years, I think. Yeah. Bill Paxson considered Matt's performance to be the lynchpin of the film, because without a great performance, film wouldn't work. So let's talk Matt O'Leary. What did this kid do for you? I think the biggest thing is that he gave like the true feeling of like, I love my dad. I've always trusted my dad, and now I'm terrified. But I don't want to get him in trouble. But I don't want to be anywhere near anything he's doing. I mean, all these complicated emotions and he just sold it so incredibly.

25:52 Well, well, think about this. He's on that at his age because you assume he's probably twelve, maybe going on thirteen, So he's at that age where he's looking at his dad and questioning, questioning his beliefs mm hmm. You because when you're a little kid, like your parents like whatever they say like goes, and you just assume that they're they are the end all be all, you. Know, Yes, but he's already starting to push those boundaries, like yeah, he wants to go see the warriors, and the little brother says, oh no, that's rated R. We're not allowed, and he's like, oh, we're gonna sneak in, and yeah we are like children, we can do what we want.

26:33 Yeah, him and his buddy they want to go tpe someone's house. Let's go wrap this guy's house. Little guys like, what what's wrap? He's like I'll explain it later. You know, I love that he is. He's doing such an amazing job of playing the protective older brother who's always looking out and they're and they're like best friends. Like watch watching them play in some of the moments before the movie gets really dark. I'm looking at that, and I'm sure you have the same feeling like you look. You're you think back to when you were a kid and you and your brother would be playing and have fun like that was your best friend before you went to school and found a new best like your other best friend. You know what I'm saying. Yep, Matt O'Leary knocks it out of the park in this film. He's an amazing, amazing young actor. He's not alone though, playing the younger brother young Adam Meeks Jeremy Sumter.

27:26 It took me the whole movie to figure out who he was. Uh, he's got busy over the over the years, but nothing I've seen Peter as I say, his notable role was this Peter Pan in the two thousand and three film. You Were Liam Lewis's parent. You watched it every day. I saw that. I was like, well, I definitely know amber seen it and probably loved it. Yes, So I mean, is Jason Isaac's Is he a good Captain Hook? He is a spectacular Captain Hook. And this movie just captures so much of the magic of that story. And I will never forget taking Liam to see it and thinking he was going to be so excited. And we're watching it and they're flying to Neverland and it's great, and he's kind of fidgeting next to me. I'm like thinking, maybe he's gotta go to the bathroom or something. I'm like, oh, okay, buddy, and he's like, you told me they were going to be pirates and there are no pirates. And I'm like, dude, just give it five minutes. They're coming. And oh, Jason Isaacs does not disappoint.

28:37 Sumpter might be the only comic relief we get in this movie. Is that fair? I didn't get that. Well. I'm just saying, like, it's not. You're not laughing every other minute in this movie. I'm just saying like he was. He was cute in the beginning, like balls again and yeah, you know that was cute. Like that reminded me of my little brother, but trying to. His brother the hole and you know, Rock traumatized. You know, his immediate brainwashing. Well, yeah, but it was. He's got some fun moments, like, you know, he's trying to help his brother dig the hole, and his brother the rock Sam telling Dad, you buttthole. You know, that's that's just that's taking you back. That's that's how you talk to your brother. You know.

29:23 Yes, but I was, I was deep in trauma, hair, Jeff, I was not enjoying anything about any of us. All right, all right, well I'll tell you what. Let's let's do a little bit of background in this movie, and because it sounds like we gotta get to some of the networthy scenes here. Writer Brent Hanley said he was inspired to write this by growing up in the Bible Belt and going to church. But he said, well, listening to the preacher's sermon, he and his friends would be flipping to the back of the Bible to Revelations to quote read about all the dark things God was going to do to us, he said. He said that in reading a ton of Stephen King as a kid helped him write Frailty. So you're Stephen King, uh, you know thoughts from earlier they have it that you know this kid was he grew up on King.

30:16 He paid at he learned from the master. Yeah, he did. He certainly did that. All of those elements are what make the story good. I just think probably as a Stephen King short story, it would have been a little more palatable. Sometimes what you can handle when you're reading it is too difficult to watch. So in the script you mentioned Meatballs, the boys are debating at the beginning of this whether to see Meatballs or Alien. Now I'm talking about in the script that was the tradition. It was The Warriors. Yeah, it's yeah, well it's the Warriors because Paxton didn't want to use Alien since he was so closely connected to the franchise, so.

30:57 He want to have the wink. Yeah. So he he goes in. He looks like he's like, what's the big movie from nineteen seventy nine around Meatballs? You know, because Meatballs is seventy seventy eight I believe, And it was The Warriors, and he's like, you know what, Walter Hill gonna do a nice little homage to him because he had worked with Walter Hill in the past. So it becomes The Warriors. I let the movie run and let the credits run because I was enjoying the music so much. And at the very end of the credits, he has like a list of thank yous, and they're all these great directors that he worked with that like you can tell he had great relationships with him. He you know, could call him if he had a question. You know, I thought that was really cool.

31:43 Some of them helped shape this movie, and that's why they get they get a little shout out. It's being a shout out. Shout out to our limited series a film at forty five where David and Scott covered Meatballs, Alien and the Warriors. You know, we always we always let listeners know about the older episodes, but finding them sounds time consuming, right because we're we're like three sixty in at this point, three hundred sixty episodes in Amber. Did you know that if you go to our website and click on the episodes tab, the drop down box will offer you a detailed listing for quick searches. I did not. I usually just try to search on Spotify, which sometimes.

32:24 You just sit there and just spin for yeah, yeah, go to go to the website, go to a film by, go to a film by podcast dot com, and just hit that episode's tab and then they'll show you. It shows you all the limited series. You click on that, and it just you know, it start in real quick. That way, at least you know, like, oh, hey, this dropped in October of twenty twenty three. So now I'll go to Spotify and I'll or actually, actually, Amber, since you're on the website and you pull it up like that, it links to whatever platform you're streaming to. So, oh my gosh, so good thing to know. Good thing to know about our website. Check that out. Now, let's talk about some noteworthy scenes and what we feel is a pivotal moment. I want to start with, Uh, finding otis so Bill Paxton. He's driving along. He spots that sunbeam shooting down into the abandoned barn walks in seas it embedded in a stump bathed in light. The name otis carved into that wooden handle. We know from the plan that the that the angel gave him that that God will give him three weapons to destroy demons. This, whether you like the weapons or not, Amber, you have to admit this is a great reveal for the weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean this is this is Freddy Krueger's glove for this movie. This is this is uh you know, Jason's machete. It's right there. It looks glorious.

33:51 I don't know. I was still too much in the realism of it. I'm like, you're just driving onto a random farm and stealing their hatchet, Like what isn't even happen? See it? I'm you're so going to not disagree. You're so not going to agree with me here. But I love this because it made me think of like the empty Amphitheater and Clash of the Titans, where the gods have left Perseus. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well it's the thing about God. The angel tells him God will deliver weapons, divine weapons for him to carry out his mission, and uh, you know, may it may not be a cloak and a shield, but it's a nice axe and a lead pipe and some good old uh good old broken in work gloves.

34:36 I don't know. He showed up with that lead pipe and I was like, so we're doing the clue, you know, by way of the Bible, Like. What, well, it's all about the acts. I think it is. He wanted want he wants to He wanted to name the acts to establish that it's ultimately a family heirloom, handed down from from following his son. And he wanted the weapon to have a little bit of personality, And you have to admit, like it does give it Like the fact that it's it's got the name Otis carved, it gives it personality. I I don't know. I would have thought it would have been neater if like he was carving the names of the demons into it. Oh, I like that, scratch it, the names of the humans that he was killing, in my opinion, demons.

35:26 They were demons amber to him. Okay, we're yeah, we're we'll get there. We'll get there. But do you know where the name Otis came from? I don't know. I always you know me, I always think of Superman's otis. Burg otis Berg. Are we going to abba Amba? Lewis? No, So this is kind of cool story. He knows he wants to give the the acts a name, and during pre production, he encounters a homeless man on the street, you know, tries to give him give him some money. When the man refused to take any charity, Paxton offered to quote unquote buy the use of his name for the acts and the homeless man's name.

36:14 Was Otis, So, oh my gosh. That's he. He found a clever way to Marshmellow. He was, Yeah, give this guy some money and help him out. I think that's kind of cool, but that is very well. I kind of love the moment of finding Otis. Uh, let's talk about one. I know you had a I know you had a tough time with digging the. Hole, everything about the hole, digging the hole, putting him in the hole. I I want you to just think about this for a second. He's digging, he tells him, He's like, I want it ten feet deep, fifteen feet wide, fifteen in both both directions. That's two hundred twenty five square feet of ten foot hole. I mean he's putting in and ground pool almost, you know.

37:02 Yeah, and this. Kid is just we talked about how Finton is defiant to what his father's beliefs are. And I love this moment for Finton because we see him kind of rise up and he's not going to go along with it, and he's he's gonna make a stand, you know. I like that Finton. Yeah, he's a scared twelve year old boy, but he's taking action through this entire film. He's he's he's trying to talk his dad off the ledge and say, hey dad, you know, maybe you're not right in the head, maybe this isn't the way. He's refusing to go along with it. He's but even when he's like his punishment, he's he's taking the punishment like a man, and he's not giving up on the punishment until it's done.

37:46 So no, I mean, I love them for fueled by fury. I think yeah, well, I mean, he think about it. He's he even says, he's like, my anger was my strength, and yeah, you know. You know, I mean, any kid that's been set a task as a punishment, there's there's a certain amount of seething involved in the accomplishing of that task. But you know, the punishment's two fold. He's like, I want you to dig the hole, and I want you to pray while you're doing it. He's like, I'll dig, but I'm not praying at all. You know. I love I love the character's defiance. I love the kids defiance. I loved it when he checked on him and he said there is no God. Yeah, well, I was like, oh man.

38:27 This kid's gonna die in this hole. But I'm proud of him. Yeah. Well, he's like you know when when Adam is bringing him water and he's like, oh yeah, Dad says you gotta be in here for like seven days. He's like seven days. And then Paston opens up. He's like, did you did you see God? Did you talk to God? And he's like there is no God. He just shuts it back and nails it back shut again. I was like, and that's okay. So I'm gonna tell you because I know how you're feeling about Paxton at this point in the film. That's the moment where I'm like, Bill Paxton, even if he's right about this mission, he's just went down the path that I can't follow him. Yeah, I mean, that's all that is. Yeah, it's all that is. And I was I was putting a lot of faith in you because that was about the point where I was like saying a lot of potty words in the text.

39:20 You're like, now he's digging the hole. Dot Dot. Was like, You're like, just to stay with it, hang in there, hang in there. I knew. I'm saying it was worth it, but I am saying I. Knew you'd have a tough time with that. With that moment, I'm going to combine a couple here. Let's talk about destroying demons. Uh, specifically the nurse and the pedophile. Now, I'm going to tell you something. If we believe that that if yeah accurate. Did you know the first first test screening twenty something people walked out when he when he brought the nurse home. Yep. Now the thing is like, like I said, I like true crime and Liam always makes fun of me because he's like, you'll be laying there asleep and on the TV. Is like, and they ripped her arms off, and her eyeballs were found in the ashtray, and you know, and it doesn't phaze me. But the fact that those two little boys, like I'm gonna start crying, the fact that those two little boys were in that barn, Like, I was completely a wreck. I was like, to heck with this movie, I'm turning it off. And I was like, well, go get a loss of water and finish watching it.

40:36 So think about this. Yeah, completely support those testas. First first time I'm watching it. My mom before she retired, was a nurse. So I can't, I'm I can't. I'm like whoa, whoa, dude, No, and then he put you know, the whole idea is like he he takes the gloves off, and once he lays his hand on the person, you will see the demon and you'll know what the evil is that they did. And Bill Paxton touches this woman's arm and he's afraid, Like, I love that Bill Paxton is terrified of what he perceives to be seeing like what she's done. He plays levels of fear so well, yeah.

41:17 And the kids are like, you know, uh, you know, and we're at the audience. We're just we're looking at a terrified woman. Who is who's tying? Yeah, that thing. We don't see what he sees, we don't or what he thinks he sees or what he pretends to see or whatever. Now I'm gonna tell you something. In the first cut of the film, we did well, not we, but the first cut of the film actually showed like what made them demons, like so he would touch. In the first cut of the film, he was touching them, and then you were getting all the flashes of the evil things that they had done. So we're quickly on board with with Dad's mission from God. Like in the original cut of the film, first cut, the assembly cut as it were.

42:00 We're like, oh, obviously Bill Paxton is correct. He is on a mission from God. These people are awful, these are these are demons, and this kid will understand his buddy James Cameron watches the first cut, says, you got to you gotta say the reveals for the end because the audience is gonna be so divisive, they're not gonna know who to believe for the whole movie. And you want that, so good call James, Good call James Cameron. Right, is think about this amber if you had watched this movie the original way. And he touches that woman's arm, and all of a sudden you see that she has slit this poor guy's throat and she's like this terrible person.

42:43 Now you're like, you know, the hell with her? The thing that I have a problem with but is also the thing that makes me I will recommend the movie even though. We're not there yet. Watch it again, but maybe one and never again. But is that you can debate it, like I like movies that you can argue about. But it reminded me of. Unbreakable, another favorite of mine, which. Unbreakable is a much better movie because you at least have the buy in that these superpowers exist and they work before you get the reveal.

43:28 I dig the fact that you're relating these two. You're comparing these two because Unbreakable is probably my all time favorite superhero origin movie, and now I'm looking at this one. It's kind of a like a superhero origin movie, just a very dark and demented one. Like I like where you're going with that. The pedophile was played by a guy named Vincent Chase. What Yeah, which is weird because you know that was that's the guy's real name. But more crazier fact, that's Bill Paxton's acting coach. Oh my gosh. She's been with Bill for twenty years. And when he was trying to find someone who could play a slimy pedophile you know that's gonna go after little girls, he was like, well, I wonder if Vince would do it, and he's like, yeah, sure, yeah, I'm in I'll do it.

44:20 I know if that's a compliand that's not a compliment, but you know he's not. He says, you can play anyone. So yeah, how many how many people are lining up to be like, oh do you have like creepy pedophile guy. Yeah, I'll do that role now, all right. Moving on, Fenton runs to the sheriff, so he's he's had enough, you know, I think I think it's demon number three where he's supposed to help and he just he run. That's when he's like, I'm out run. He runs to the sheriff's office, who doesn't believe him, by the way, because you know, why would you believe a twel year old boy in nineteen seventy nine, takes him back home and and then he gets murdered in a very hitchcocking way. I think like that, that whole thing with him getting killed, that that that was psycho to me.

45:10 Yes, right, well it was so quick. Yeah, it just escalated so so fast. Paxton's doing some of his best work in the movie because he is he is terrified that this this sheriff is going to catch him. He's really if you watch him at the dinner table, he's so nervous. And then you know, Finnon's like, well, I'll show you the shed, and he's like, well, Sheriff's like I don't think we have to do that, do we. He's like, I don't know. Finton, do we have to do that? Because and he's telling Fitton like, look, you're forcing my hand. This is a good guy, he's not a demon. Back off. And I think you see that little kid where Fentnis is so in over his head because it's like, well, he's not gonna kill a sheriff.

45:55 He wouldn't do that. He wouldn't have a police officer. You can't do that. Yeah, and this is this is this is Bill Paxson's fall from grace the dad's character. You know. I love that his words to him before swinging otis are may God welcome you and keep you because he's genuinely remorseful about the act of killing this guy. Because you know, when we talk about the first two demons, you know, like he tells the nurse, he's like, all I see is evil, and then the pedophile, it's you can't escape God's wrath. Like there's he's he's you know, it's all fire and brimstone. But he doesn't want to do this, but he has to. He has to protect the mission, and you know, it sets Adam. That was another.

46:41 That I struggled with was I didn't feel like the steaks with the Demons was like that high. So well, so to compare, I keep comparing this movie to the other movies, but I thought of the movie They Live. Yeah, and that great scene when he puts the glasses on for the first time and you're like, oh my god, they're everywhere? Yeah, well yeah, like didn't really feel like, are are they everywhere? Is this just random? How does he know who these people are? What's gonna happen if he doesn't get rid of the demons? Like again on a first time watch, he gets the weapons and he gets the list of names, and you're just like, where's he getting the names? Because they're all just they are all appeared Adam's list.

47:33 How do we know that? Like that nurse isn't somebody that he had an affair with? And well, again we know we know that she was a demon. But I think you're onto something. You're taking that vision thing as like it was real. Well that's okay, Well hold on, we don't want to we don't. We'll get there, we'll get there. But you just made another good point, even though you don't want to make the point. That's because some of the Adam Adam had a list, and because Adam is a true believer and Adam, you know he sees. The mission, is not a true believer. Adam is a little boy who looks at his dad and is like, yep, I see it. I believe it absolutely, Dad.

48:18 Well, we can't. I don't want to spoil it, but you know, you know who Adam is so well. But we're gonna have to talk off Mike about this because I will like confused about. Okay, the ending, all right, well I want to talk. I want to talk about one more scene. What I think is the pivotal moment of this movie, and it's all about destroying the fourth demon, the guy Brad who amber you had to be happy about this guy getting it. This was the the abusive husband guy that was, you know, yelling at his wife and the like the biker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that. Guy sucked Like I couldn't wait for it to see him get murdered. Not I'm sorry, I couldn't wait to see him get destroyed because he's a demon. But it's supposed to be Fitten's first time following this this punishment under the shed, and when he swings otis it's not at the abuse of husband's neck. It's as Dad's chest.

49:13 Bill Paxton's look that how the tears are welling up in his eyes, not because he's dying and in pain, he's heartbroken because he thinks at this point Finton has seen the light. God has talked, you know. He Finton tells him, Yeah, God talked to me, I know the mission, and Adam is traumatized. I love the fact that moment where he whispers something to Adam. We will never know what he whispered, because even the writer has said, yeah, we're not meant to know what he says. That's that's the scene where I'm like, Okay, now I don't know who to believe, you know, Because the meanwhile, we've got this story that's happening in present day with Matthew McConaughey, who is one of these brothers, and he's basically we've got to serial killer on the loose calling himself the God's hand killer. Matthew McConaughey believes it to be his brother, and he's basically telling FBI agent Powers Booth, you know who's playing Wesley Doyle. He's telling him the whole thing, where the bodies are and they're on this creepy drive, you know, in the dead of night in a rainstorm to the Rose Garden to get all the answers, and I'm and you gotta be scared at this point, are you?

50:26 Were you a little scared for powers Booth. The minute they got to the rose Garden, I was like, wait a second, one of these things is not like the other. This is uhh. And part of it was for me. This was visually the best shot in the movie. I loved the flashlight, yeah, oh yeah, the light coming through the trees and all of that was was amazing. Can we talk about there's one shot here that want to talk about where they are walking. It's exactly the scene you're talking about, and that you kind of pan down to a rose bush as they pass by, and when you pan up, they've taken you back to nineteen seventy nine where he's bearing Bill Paxton. No, no real camera trick, it's just they had the kids there, they had the set ready and as soon as they walked by the everyone ran in a positions as they panned back up. I love simple, simple little trick that you're like, how they do that because there's no cut.

51:35 It's like that scene and last night and soho where they are rotating Yes, yes, and you're like this has to be CGI and then you see how they did and you're like, nope, They're just crawling on the floor. That's all it was. So I got to ask, because you have not you have not chimed in yet, did we discuss the pivot moment for you? Or are you still like on the fence? I don't know. You don't have to. Well, I do, but I don't think I can say what it is. We'll say what it is, and if we have to cut it, we'll cut it. Okay. For me, the whole movie went from like this is a piece of garbage and I'm going to kill Jeff to Hmmm, I'm gonna have to watch this again and figure this whole mystery out. Was when he killed powers Booth.

52:30 We can talk about that. That that for me, that sequence where he's talking to him and he's like and you realize like, wait, is this not the brother that I thought it was? Are there two? Are there two of them? Is he only one person? My mind was just spinning through that whole last conversation with powers Booth. I think the reveal of who powers Booth actually is, and what he did is where the first time you watch it you were like, holy shit. Yeah. But then there's a whole another major twist that follows right after that, and that's what I That's what I want to say for the listeners if they haven't seen it.

53:13 But that whole sequence with Powers Booth was where like all of a sudden, all the pennies were dropping and I. Was like, wait, w yeah, I remember I told you. I was like, just just you're so close. Just hang in there because something's gonna happen. Yeah, because that's that's it. That's that's it. That's a good one. I should have I should have had that as as the pivotal moment, but I just had to have one with with Bill Paxston. So yes, yeah, for sure, let's take. One last break and then we'll wrap things up, all right, amber. So you know, sadly we lost Bill Paxxton way too soon. Oh my gosh. So sad he only got to direct two films and we're gonna cover both of them this month. So I know, we always like to say, you know, if someone loved this movie, they wanted more from this director, what would you recommend given the fact that we've been talking about Frailty, and later this month we're gonna talk about the Greatest Game Ever Played, which is his second feature that he that he uh that he directed. I'm gonna make this a little bit easier for you. Let's say someone has just discovered Bill Paxton in this movie and they love him as they should.

54:25 Yes, I can't imagine a world in which like, I don't know who he is. Well, yeah, I mean this this this was this question. Sometimes depending on who you're talking about, it's a little ludicrous, Like talking to Wayne and Dave about if someone had never heard of Steven Spielberg and they like Duel, what would you recommend? You know, I mean, come on, but I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you what three Bill Paxton projects would you recommend to someone, whether he whether he starred in it, co starred in it, whether he wrote it, directed it, produced it. What do you think? Well, I'm so glad that, like I kind of get an out because I got to say that, like my favorite performance was true Lies, But now I get three more.

55:08 Yeah, this is this was perfect for you. This is You've got carte blanche, you know, to just be like, oh, you don't have to break they rules this time. Remember no, even though I. Do have to leave too by the wayside. But I'll play by the rules this time. Okay, you definitely have to see Aliens. I mean, Hudson is fabulous. That movie absolutely amazing. You know my love for all things space. So I'm gonna give a shout out to Apollo thirteen. He is wonderful as Fred Hayes mm hmmm and absolutely you know, just brings this levity to know what is an incredibly serious, intense movie. Yeah, and his character is such a lovable goofball while still being a professional astronaut.

56:04 He's amazing. And then I know it's it is what it is. I freaking love the movie Twister. I love Bill, I think he is amazing. And I love his performance in that movie. So I'm going for it. So let's let's break this down. First off, Hudson and Aliens, one of the best characters in the movie, probably has the best catchphrases for the movie. Oh yes, and it's like it's so easy to love Hicks. Everybody loves Sicks about it, but like loving Hudson is like a special kind of thing.

56:45 Yes, I'm with you. I'm with you, and again shout out to our limited nineteen eighty six series we covered aliens had a fun time talking about that one. I wish you were you were on the team back then. Seriously you missed out. Maybe maybe we you know what, next year is the fortieth anniversary for nineteen six movies. Maybe maybe we I said I wouldn't do this, but maybe we we cherry pick a couple like as a as a more. You know, can I tell you that I cut my hair like Sigourney Weaver And I've seen that maybe a million times, and sitting right here next to me is my a.

57:26 All right? Save it for the anniversary episode that we're probably gonna end up doing. Listeners, make it happen. Fred Hayes, Apollo thirteen. I don't think you could do that with any other three guys. No, chemistry was just perfect chemistry. Yeah, Ron Howard, our new friend we met. Oh, he's so cool. He's so cool. And then definitely I'm glad that you mentioned the extreme. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, but he is awesome in Twister. He is. He is amazing.

58:07 It's just a it's a it's a roller coaster ride. It's popcorn movie. Absolutely. I'm not watching it because I needed to be substance. I'm watching it because it's it's just fun and he makes it. He makes it fun. Yep. Absolutely yeah, and has some of the most ridiculous dialogue that he has to say, and he sells it like nobody else could do that. He does shout out to our nineteen ninety six limited series because we covered Twister also, so yep, this is this is the shout out episode film at forty five, nineteen eighty six, nineteen ninety six. Were like that wall with the strings, Yeah, exactly, all connected. It's all connected. So so you kind of you kind of hinted at it already. Let's talk about final thoughts.

58:53 Let's talk about your recommendation. And before you answer, I do want to say that this film has an absolutely great ending. Yes you agree, Yes, definitely, we're hanging in for Amber. Can we say without spoilers that the good guy wins and evil gets punished. No, you're you're gonna have to go back. You have to you you need to watch it again. I do I think that, you know, if you're having kind of like like a murder mystery thing, and yeah, or like movies with a twist kind of thing, or even if you just have somebody that like you like to fun argue with. This is one of those great movies that like, you can argue nuance, you can argue plot.

59:41 I mean, well, you can catch this one streaming free on Plex, free V and Prime. I recommend the physical copy, be it DVD or Blu ray, where you will get deleted scenes. You get a really cool making up documentary an amber, not one but three audio commentaries, one of which is an amazing one by Bill Paxton. Now see, I was gonna be like the heck, I'm paying a method for this, but to listen to him talk about. Can I can I loan you my copy just so you could you can watch the movie with Bill Paxton, because I think I think that'll probably put you. That'll that'll be your tipping point, That'll be like, Okay, I still don't like the digging the whole scene. I don't like the child abuse, but this movie is awesome. I think I think you needed you need to You need to sit with Bill and watch it and let him talk. Okay, all right, well, listeners, what do you think of Bill Paxton's directorial debut Frailty. Have you seen it? Did we get this one wrong? I know, I know we didn't.

1:00:52 I guess. I guess A better question right now would be a are you team Amber or not? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can check out a film by podcast dot com for all the episodes and a very easy, like we said, Amber, a very easy way to find all of our episodes. Yes, I'm excited about this. Yeah, they're all there. Uh. You can write to us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of a film by swag Amber. You've been missed. I'm a I'm missed. Being able to be here. I'm very excited you what was it? A? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, you took the whole month of April off.

1:01:37 But I'm glad people you have time to get sick of me. Yeah, I'm glad you're kicking off Bill Paxton month. You're gonna do any others with us? Uh? You know we talked about a couple. I think you should Indian Summer. I was gonna say I'm feeling an Indian summer. I want to go back to. Camp, to go to come back to camp with me and David. Yes' be good time. I'll tell you another thing. Let'ss you can look for an Amber centric episode on our Patreon this month. I didn't tell you about that, did I. You're looking like, wait, what, we'll talk. We'll talk off Mike. You're kicking off something fun on Patreon. Oh, come join me. I don't know what you're doing, but it's gonna.

1:02:19 I didn't tell you yet, but you'll be game. I'm sure I'm down for it. Well, well, I'm glad to hear that. And as for all of you listening to the show, following us on social media, and subscribing to our Patreon, we thank you.