Catherine Hardwicke - Lords of Dogtown

0:01 Brad. I was curious. You and I met in high school. So before we met, were you a bmxer, were you a skater or were you both? I guess I was more of a bmxer type of guy. So did you But did you skate? Like, did you have a skateboard? Did you do any skateboarding? Briefly after saying Back to the Future. That is quite a coincidence about it, really, I'll be honest. I remember my mom and dad taking us, me and my brother to see Back to the Future nineteen eighty five, and immediately following the movie theater the Showcase Cinemas, they took a straight to Toys r Us where we got our very first Madrid Volterra skateboards, which is what Martin McFly. Yeah, that's the skateboard that Martin McFly was on. I'll be honest, thinking back to the tricks I could do and the skills that I had, I was not a skateboarder for very long. I wasn't that I wasn't that good. Yeah, but the movie that we're talking about today definitely has some good skaters. Uh, one would say they have we it's it's about the pioneer of of the skateboarding scene, wouldn't you agree? I do agree, Brad. Let's talk about a film by Catherine Hardwick, her her two thousand and

1:36 five drama Lords of Dogtown. Yeah, hello everybody, and welcome back to the Film By podcast. I am Jeff Johnson. And I am Brad Kozer, and today.

2:17 We are continuing on with Women's History Month. Right, Yeah, we're talking about Catherine Hardwick. M Brad. Not a lot of not a big filmography Forwick, not yet, right mh. Well you say not yet, but I'm wondering when because she's done some good stuff, but but we want. More, right yeah, I mean's just waiting for the right kind of project. All right, So we you know, we talked about projects on this on this podcast. I know last year, Uh, you definitely threw several uh films that me that you said, hey, let's talk about this director and this is the movie that I want to talk about and I had never seen them, which is always fun when you go into a to get ready for one of these episodes when you haven't seen the film. And this time though, you know we're talking about Katherine Hardwick. I said, Brad, we have got we absolutely have got to talk about Lords of Dogtown and you kind of were like, what, who this was your first time seeing it? Right?

3:23 Yeah, my first time seeing it? YEA. All right, I'm gonna go ahead and now let's get it out of the way. Right now. Tell me what you thought of it. What I thought of the film. I love the way she shoots, the way she films sings. But I have to say, all in all, I was not a big fan of this film. That surprises me, you know. And another thing too, is because we talked about it earlier. I'm not a big skateboarding person, so I think the enthusiasm for wanting to enjoy it more or really really enjoying those kind of elements, you know, take somebody like me out of it. But I still was able to follow a movie. I just I feel that the movie had some some issues that could have been resolved to make it a little bit more entertaining.

4:11 Okay, I got I'm gonna have to ask you about them a little bit more as we go on. But you know, there was some great stuff that came out in two thousand and five, and two thousand and five is a great year for movie. It was a great year for movies. And I'm gonna tell you right now because this is gonna be one of those ones. This is gonna be an episode where we butt heads a little bit. I think. I think this is one of the better films of two thousand and five. I absolutely love it. To your point, her visual style, and it's not just in Lord's Dogtown, but the color palette that she uses. Yes, almost she almost does her films. She almost gives him a documentary look. Yeah, and this is you know, this movie, this is a period piece because it it opens up in Venice, California, nineteen seventy five, where they're at Pacific Ocean Park Pier, you know, the z Boys of a Dogtown. So I love the fact that it has that nostalgic look to it. Yeah, you know.

5:13 I mean when you see something that takes place, you know, in another time period, something like the sixties or the seventies, and you have this, you know, great beautiful four K you know type of picture that's beautiful, but to maybe feel the grittier, dirtier look, to really feel like just somebody is carrying around, you know, a sixteen millimeter camera and filming these guys makes it a little bit more you're a little bit more involved. Yeah. Now there's a there's a very popular documentary, Z Boys in Dogtown, and I know this film is kind of like a companion piece to that, and that's why she gave it that that documentary.

5:53 Look, the documentary came out first, right. It did. Okay, Yeah, but I think you know the movie it has that grainy, gritty seventies look to it, but it's also gorgeous to see, which is ironic because at this time, you know, Venice, California, it was you know, Dogtown was because you know, it was nicknamed Dogtown because it was kind of like a ghetto, like a slum. Yeah. Now, I mean this is this is your backyard now. So my question to you, you know, you talk about you know, period pieces and seeing what they look like. Watching it, you know, did you least see like hey, you know, because you someone like you probably sees every location in the film and knows right where.

6:39 They're at, right some of them. Yeah, But if you notice that she keeps she keeps the camera very tight, and she keeps it very moving, I think to just kind of keep the pace of the skateboarders. You're never really stopped in this movie, you don't stop moving. Even when a scene when there's no skateboarding going on, I really feel like the camera is moving. So you don't have a lot of time to focus on this round. I mean, you can notice little things like, oh, there's that restaurant and stuff like that. But obviously some of the stuff with the destruction of you know, the pier and stuff like that, it doesn't exist. They had to recreate that. I can't remember if that was filmed here in Los Angeles or not, but I like how she keeps it more contained. But you still feel that beach open area. You definitely feel that behind the alley way of the beach houses of venice boardwalk type of thing where you can jump from house to house type of thing.

7:39 You know, those houses still look like that there. Okay, uh, but the only problem is now that's prime real estate. It's no longer the ghetto, right, No, it is no longer the ghetto. Yeah. Well, this movie it's all about, you know you're talking about like her ability to keep the shots tight and especially on her actors when they're when they're in motion. The one thing that I love about the cinematography on these tight shots because these this is about surfers discovering, not discovering, but this is about surfers creating the sport of skateboarding as we know it today. Right, So when they're on their boards, it's I mean, she it's shot like their surfing. Yeah, and that's you know, and I get the whole thing with like the the uh, the the poly eurotheane wheels and how you know, uh Zephyr kind of revolutionized everything. But the shots, like when they're when they're down and they're tight and they're coming up out of the pools or they're they're jumping, it's gorgeous looking.

8:46 Even if we're like that documentary Grainy, it feels it almost feels like it is a documentary, you know when I. Watch it and then going through like the uh you know, the pier and stuff like that, going underneath that servce, that's dangerous stuff. I'll just say, because yeah, again, this is this is you. This is this is right in your wheelhouse. So that's that's a real shoppy area. Yeah right, that's that's a dangerous spout to be I thought. Yeah, I mean, and the key to it once they discover these wheels, these new wheels, that are going to allow all these things that they wish they could do, the kind of things that they do on their surfboard that they want to be able to do on their skateboard are now going to be possible. And knowing that that, okay, we're now onto something that's be careful, it's gonna it's gonna spread like wildfires, and it really I guess I don't know when it started to really really start to get big big, but it was. I mean, this definitely shows that, hey, this is where it all started. Guy walked into a a Zephyr shop and said, check out these wheels. This is going to change everything.

9:56 The guy that walks into uh skips before and not to get ahead of ourselves, but Skip who's brilliantly portrayed by the late Heath Ledger. Dude walks in with the new Eurothine wheels and basically is like, these will make your skateboards like surfboards, you know, and the guys are they all get excited. Did you happen to catch who that was? That is Mitch Hedgeberg and his last ever performance? That is Mitch Hedberg. I it's a blink and you miss it cameo, but he has such a unique voice, you know, it's him, you know. Yeah, So we're talking about and this is obviously it's just the movie is inspired by a true story based kind of off the documentary.

10:47 We're talking about Jay Adams, Tony Alva, and Stacy Peralta, who these are the three guys that created the sport of skateboarding. It just didn't really, it didn't exist until they came along in nineteen seventy f and tore up these competitions. You know. Uh, I think one of my one of the movie, one of the moments in the movie, I like that's early on, uh, when when Skip kind of creates Zephyr competition. The team and they go to what is it the uh the Bond Cadillac Nationals in Delmar, California. Yeah, in seventy five, and you got these these guys. He's just like these lay mass guys out there doing tricks. Well, I'll just say tricks that I could do, tricks really Oh yeah, they were doing stuff I could easily do on my Voltaire skateboard. And the judges are like, okay, eight seven point five.

11:42 Yeah. Well then the z boys get out there and they start doing these amazing things and I love the uh the announcer he's like, uh, that we've never seen that before. I don't know what do we call that? Yeah, and they you know, like Jay is the first one up and they're astounded. But but he gets a low score because they don't even know how to The guy's like, how do we score this? He didn't do any wheelies, he didn't do He names all these stupid ass you know, tricks that your little sister could do, and they're like, I don't know. And then you know, quickly like within that that contest, do z boys have arrived. I think that's it's like their moment where you know, they look up to the surfers, they want to be surfers. They're good on their skateboards. This is the moment in the movie early on where they've arrived and they they kind of become rock stars every night. Yeah, what did you think about the performances for Jay, Tony and Stacey. You got you've got one name actor Emil Hirsch who plays who plays Jay Adams and plays him really well, I gotta say, And then you got Victor Rossuk playing Tony and John Robinson playing Stacy, you haven't seen these guys anywhere else. So what did you I mean, what did you think about their their performances?

12:58 Well, I was gonna ask you, with the exception of Emil hersh Victor and John, where they skateboarders or actors? First? He was going to ask you, I I'm pretty sure they were actors who learned how to skate. Okay, because I mean the film was written by Stacy Parlotta. Yeah, yeah, so yeah he could. I mean, Paralta is one of these people that he did his time in the sport and then you know, like any good athlete who wants to stay in the game, they find a way to you know, stay relevant. You know, he he creates his own he created he went on to create his own company, right and they even allude to that at the end of this movie. You know, he's a guy I'm starting my own company. Uh power Peralta as the company that he started, the team that he started, which a lot of people, a lot of people that aren't you know, big into skateboarding. Uh don't know this, but one of his earliest proteges was a fourteen year old Tony Hawk. Yeah, and we all know who Tony Hawk is.

14:01 So you catch a brief still of him in this. Movie, Yeah, a little cameo is an astronaut of all things. Yeah, but it's funny to think because like we grew up knowing Tony Hawk was. He was the king of skateboarding. Yeah. There is no Tony Hawk without Stacy Peralta, Right. So it's things like that that that made me appreciate this movie. Yeah, all them. Yeah, because they said he was working with him when Tony Hawk was fourteen. Yeah. So as far as the performances in it, John who played Stacy, I thought was really good. But the other guys I just I don't think it was their performances.

14:43 I just found every one of them just very unlikable. They came off very just everybody came off really really pompous. Really punks. Yeah they are you you get that, uh, Tony. This is what I like about Victor Rassak's performance as Tony Alva. He is very pompous. He's very conceded, uh you know, and he he lives that that rock star type life, and you know, and he wants it. He's like, I want it now, I want it all, you know. Because they go from just being passionate about skateboarding to wanting deals and cars and you know, magazine covers and all this other stuff, which is you know, which takes me back to like one of the main reasons I like this movie so much is it's all about friendship and the the different paths that you're that your close friends will take, and your struggle to stay relevant in their world. You know, because this is a good crew, you know, the Zephyr team is is unstoppable. But you know, it's not too long before guys like uh Topper played by the play by Johnny Knoxville in a really sleazy role. Yeah, it's not too long before agents and other other people come in and break up the team, promising them like, oh, I'm gonna give you big paydays and and all this stuff.

16:12 You know, you got someone, Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, they're they're marketable. They're very they're they're very marketable, you know what I mean. So they knew they had to grab onto this like right away. So but the characters did invent these, you know, certain kind of skateboarder ways, so they were very well entitled to those royalties, you know, because they they were the uh you know they started it. Yeah, well it's it's one of those things where it's like, okay, you know Heath Ledger's Skip. You know, he gives them, he puts them on the team, he gets them into the competitions, he gives them their their their their boards, their wheels. He fund he fund, Yeah, he is. He he's their benefactor. But they're not making money, you know.

17:00 And it's one of those things like your your where's your your loyalty? You know, because someone like someone like Stacy, you know, who I would say of the of the main three, he's got to be who you think, who you say is the most likable you know, yes, absolutely, he's a good kid. He and he's loyal to Skip. You know, he's like, hey, you know, I want to be on the team and I want to do good. And you know, he's always got the he's always got there that that family vibe at at the heart of it. Yeah, you know where the other two are like I want money, I want girls, I want yeah, I want it all. You know. There's one guy that we're not that we haven't talked about though, uh Michael h Eric Garrand he plays sid the the one the one friend who he's he's not good, but he's got he's got medical problems.

17:56 I I gotta say, Sid is the heart of the team. He's the heart of the of the friendships, would you. Agree, I think at times yeah, But then a lot of times he's dismissed. I think in the in the middle of the film, so you kind of lose I feel like I lost track of him a little bit. Well, he's a tragic character because it's one of those things where it's like you feel bad for him, Like he's the little brother that gets picked on, right, But you know, hey, I can pick on my little brother, but I can't because the one time someone else messes with Sid, you know, and he ends up wrecking on a skateboard, Jay completely wrecks that kid up, and he's like, you know, he's like, dude, he's like and Jay like defends him immediately. Yeah, you know, it says, hey, he's got that condition he you know, with his equilibriatement. Don't don't mess with him, you know. So they're protective of Sid. Yeah, they're they're dismissive, but they're also protective.

18:52 Yeah, and well, I mean, we obviously got to. Talk about Skip. Let's talk about Skip. Okay, so this is the same year that Heath Ledger does Broke Back Mountain. He does like four movies I think, if I'm not mistaken, he did Cava that year. Also, Yeah, he had like. A little bit of what I guess would call like a dry spell after you know, the kind of did what was it The Patriot? Then Knight's Tale and a Monster's Ball and then he did some movies that just didn't catch yea, and people thought he was kind of down and out. And in two thousand and five he starts to get noticed with this film, and then people start talking about Heath Ledger the actor as opposed to the Heath Ledger the movie star.

19:38 So let me ask this now, people that knew that know the real Skip have have just hailed Ledger's performance as hauntingly accurate. His mannerisms, his speech, his his his movement everything. He basically became Skip this two thousand and five. This is a couple of years before he becomes the joker right in Christopher Nolan's Batman movies. Watching this now, and you know you didn't see this before you saw The Dark Knight. Do you see as a fair to say that you see some seeds of the joker in his performance of Skip a little bit.

20:20 But what I saw a lot of was Valcomer's Jim Morrison performance. Oh wow, I felt Yes, at certain times, I'm like, I feel like a lot of times he was doing certain even scenes with his glasses and the way he was doing his harroor was like he could be Jim Morrison. Is is Skip like a Jim Morrison joker? I mean he kin, he kind of is. Man, I didn't even think about it. I didn't think about that. Now I can't not think about that. He definitely embodies some Valcilmer Morrison for sure. Especially on the scene where he's on top of the surf shop. Oh gosh, ya wowed out drunk? Yeah? Uh, Skip is he's a sad character because and I don't I mean that in a in a way like your heart breaks for him, kind of like you kind of like was said. But one thing about Skip is we we were introduced to him and he seems invincible, right like the first time you see him. You know all these all the you know the three you know, Jay, Tony and Stacey there there it's four am. They're sneaking out.

21:25 They're they're on their way to catch the waves, and the Z boys do not allow that, you know, and they basically it's like, hey, you're on, you're on police patrol, you're on you're in the boneyard, you're on the you know, they have to earn their keep. They have to they have to earn the right to ride these waves. And and uh and Skip just seems you know, he's the king, right because even Stacy, like it's when it's Stacy's turn, Stacey wipes out almost immediately, and he's like, hey, back to the boneyard for you pal, you know, just cuts them off, doesn't even get another shot. So you're like, man, this guy he must be pretty good. You know, he owns the shop, you know, the Zephyr Zephyr Sa surfboard shop.

22:06 But then you see like he's he's used, right. Yeah, His buddies are all like, hey, we'll work when we want to work, We'll surf when we want to surf. And you know, he's trying to build something, but no one's giving him the support, is how I got it. But he he has a fun time party as much of himself as well. So did you notice all work and no play. Well, i'll tell you what retail is definitely not for Skip because that that opening scene where the the rich looking the surfer, they were just browsing. Yeah, the browsing guy, you know, he's a poser. Let's just call it what it is. Uh, you know, he's like, hey, this is not a library man. You you know you got money, and he's like, no, I didn't bring you money. He's like, the what do you do in my store? Then ask get out? You know, he's he's a he's like Jack Black and high fidelity. You know, yeah, it's a It's it's wrong, but.

23:02 I find it also establishes I. I sell quality stuff to quality people. Yeah, I don't sell I don't sell surfboards to first timers. But it's bittersweet because at the end, you know when Skip just you know, when he when he's lost everything, he's lost these these these amazing talents, he he sells his shop and he ends up working for someone else. Right, Well, if you look carefully, his the guy that that owns the store is the guy he. Kicked out, Is it I didn't notice that? No? I did not, And he just goes back to his own happy little world in the back where he where he makes custom surfboards, singing along to Rod Stewart, you know, Maggie, Maggie May. And you're like, it's sad, but it's like, Okay, he he's obviously happy doing what he's doing, but it's just sad that he came that close to having it all but but didn't.

23:59 Yeah, but I think somebody like him is the kind of lifestyle that he leads. The Skip lifestyle would not have lasted in the big time. You know, he would have burned out very very quickly. And now you mentioned, you know the Rod Stewart song. You we just talk about the awesome soundtrack of this movie. I will say, just the great soundtrack of this movie. Watching this recently, I thought, if there's one thing Brad will take away from this movie, it is the incredible soundtrack. I mean, what do you got, Rod Stewart. You got you got Sabbath Sabbath Stewart, you got Deep Purple Pink Floyd, You've got Neil Young you. I have never heard that version of Voodoo Child No by Jimi Hendrix.

24:46 From the beginning I'm listening to Him'm like, is. This Voodoo child. It's slowed down version of it. Yeah, great, great soundtrack. Yeah, absolutely kick ass soundtrack. And again it it defined the time period really well, like you don't need to know, like because if you think about the cars, a lot of the cars you see, they're not cars from nineteen seventy five, they're cars from the sixties, you know, and you get the impression that these are people that can't afford to go buy new cars because they're just trying to keep the ones that they have running. So yeah, but the music tells you exactly where you're at, as does the clothing that they all wear. You know, it's just a fun movie when it comes to that kind of stuff. How fun was it to see Rebecca de Mornay.

25:35 She's been gone a while. She was gone a while, she was it was fun to see her again, but once again, I wanted a little bit more range out of her besides somebody that was just a kind of. A lush Yeah, well, I you know, so this is this is nineteen seventy five and you're up here. I just looked at her like she was like the the stoner hippie that that you know, just never pregnant and then never grew up and never took on responsibility. And I mean she's living she I mean, yeah, she's she's Jay's mom, but she she's more like his roommate. Yeah, he's supporting.

26:17 And I'm confused on who you know the guy was, Was that a boyfriend? Was that that's not Jay's father? But I was a little bit confused with that in their relationship. So I said, I thought there was I thought there was some holes in the movie. Well, I it's you know, it's not as it's not his father, right, but it's the one guy that has stuck around the longest in Jay's life. And that's why, like when he leaves, when he just can't handle crazy Philane Rebecca Demon's character, he can't handle anymore. He's like, hey, I'll always be a dad to you. Yeah. But then you know they're all on the you know, he's on a first name basis with them. He doesn't call him dad, you know. Yeah, So yeah, I kind of looked at it that as this is the one guy that has like maintained a semblance of a father to Jay for the longest, or.

27:09 At least Kepper Kepper, you know, up and about for a while. Yeah, maybe taking care of her, so that Jay was always taking care of her. Yeah, and I can't remember that guy's name, but he he always shows up. It was nice to see him play. He guy's related to Tom Cruise. He's like Tom Cruise's cousin or something like that. Really Okay, he always plays a bad guy, but he's not a bad guy in this and that's what was kind of nice to see him. William William Pother map Father Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, because then Cruise's real real name is map Bother Okay, I believe he's might be his brother. Wow. Well he left Rebecca de Morney like he abandoned her. So, yes, he left her, but he left he left Jay with a pretty kick ass skateboard or not skateboard, a surfboard. Yeah.

28:00 So we we we're talking about the music, We're talking about Hardwick's shooting style. Any other characters you want to talk about, Like, do you know Nicky Reid shows up? She's she is a staple in Katherine Hardwick movies. Well, I remember her from thirteen, yes, and we'll we'll we'll talk about that when we when we do the filmography of Katherine Hardwick. But I do remember her because she's got a very unique faith. Yeah, attractive, attractive, young young lady, but yeah, she's in this. She plays Tony's sister Kathy, who you know, again this isn't it's based on a true story, so you know, she's like the the one girl that you know she grew up and now the other. You know, Tony's friends are kind of like looking at her a different way.

28:51 You know, she cheats on one and you know kind of you know, I don't know, she. Starts off with Stacy. Yeah, she starts off with Stacy and everything's cool, but then you know, she starts going down that that wrong path that Jay slowly starts going down. And I think that's why they compliment one another and they kind of end up together because Jay, you know, Emil Hirsch his performance because you're right he and when you're first watching this, you're like, man, this kid's a punk, but you also feel sorry for him because he's They quickly, you know, Catherine Hardwick quickly showed you this is a kid that didn't get a childhood. He had to grow up, he had to be the man of the house. He's you know, trying to take care of his mom and he never really cared about the money and the fame. He just wanted to surf and he just wanted to skate. And then he kind of falls in with that wrong crowd.

29:41 You know, he literally becomes you know, a gang a gang banger, you know. Yeah, yeah, for the back half of the movie. Yeah, you know, so kind of sad. You know, there's the more I think about now, there's a lot of sad characters in this movie that you know, could have and so bad. They could have done so much more for themselves, but they they didn't and it was their own doing. Well, it's the movie is showing, all right, we're gonna put opportunity in front of you, who's gonna take it, who's gonna go about it the right way? And who's gonna see it as a chance to party. So you get all. These different spaces. You get Stacy's perspective out of it, Tony's, Jay's and skips and how they're going to handle this thing that does change the skateboarding industry. I mean, look at things like X Games now, I mean these.

30:36 Are global events. You know, these are money marketed, you know, commercial successful events, you know, not as big as a Super Bowl, but it is now a sport, a traveling you know sport. You can make just as much money off of being a Tony Hawk than you can be in a Bron James or a Ken Gurfey Junior or anybody. You know, you can do just as big. But you show these guys all this at once, and everybody's going to take a different turn, and everybody does take a different turn. Nobody goes No, two people go the same way in this movie.

31:17 Well, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. I mean, even though Tony and and Stacy have what are considered professional careers afterwards and stuff, they still didn't go that exact same route. No, Because well again, Stacy is more humble, he's the more low key. He's he signs with like a large company, a large you know, big team. Uh, that's that's all focused on the team aspect of it. Whereas Tony, I mean, think about when he shows up at the one of the later competitions, he gets out of the limousine in a in a basically looks like evil and evil. He's got like the starspan, you know, like he's ready to jump fourteen buses. He's all about the fame. He's all about the glamour and the glitz and the girls and the money. That's that's what he wants more so than skating. Yeah, you know. So. Yeah, it's different paths and it's a it's interesting to watch them start off as as close friends who become adversaries in a way because it's really one sided. Like I love that moment where they're both standing there ready for their turns at the competition and Stacey's like, he's smiling. He's like, hey, Tony, it's it's it's either me or you, and Tony doesn't even look at it, doesn't even have the respect to look at him.

32:41 He's like, no, bro, it's me. And then he takes off. I'm like, damn, he's a jerk. Years from now, Brad, we're gonna be at the Podcasters Awards banquets or something like that, and I'm gonna be like, Brad, it's it's me or you. Man. If you go like, no, it's me, it's been me always. Yeah, I hope that doesn't happen. But you want to talk a little bit about Katherine Hartwick please, all right, So do you remember I'm just going to tie this into an episode we did not too long ago, back back in January. Remember how we talked about Kevin Reynolds goes to law school, becomes a lawyer, and then decides, I don't want to be a lawyer.

33:28 I want to be a filmmaker. Right. Catherine Hardwick is on that same plan apparently, because she goes to school, she becomes an architect, and then right out of school she's like, yeah, I don't want to do this. I don't want to be an architect. I think I want to make movies. So she goes right back into school UCLA and becomes a very prominent production designer. And when we talk about some of the stuff that she's been involved in over the years, there's been some big movie that she's been a part of, you know, everything from like the quirky comic book adaptations like tank Girl to The Tombstone. Yeah, Three Kings Vanilla Sky. She gets to work with Tom Cruise on that one, and Yeah, she is a very prominent production designer and that is her way.

34:21 She spends all this time location scouting with directors, some of these big name directors, and she is basically it's almost like her internship because she's doing she's doing the job of production designer, but she's telling these guys, I want to make films. I want to make my own films, and they are pouring out all kinds of information like, hey, this is something I learned. This is something they didn't teach me in film school. So she's acquiring all this knowledge to become a successful filmmaker. And surprisingly she's forty eight when she does her first movie, which is thirteen. Have you ever seen that movie? I have? And I'll tell you, I mean I was, I saw it. How old was I?

35:07 Well, I mean I saw it when it came out, like I saw when it came later, like yeah, yeah, it was two thousand and three when it came out, And I knew then I did not want to have a daughter. That's exactly what I said. And oh man, and I seriously considered not having kids after seeing that movie because it was such a culture shock. Do you remember when we saw the movie Kids the NC seventeen and You're like, these kids are rotten, They're awful, and I don't ever want to have kids. Thirteen really didn't change that or improve that mood as. Far as I think that film made me. If kids was hard to believe. Thirteen was the are you sure?

35:49 Because let me show you how it could be, and it really summed it up. So we're talking. We talked about Nicki Reid. This is where thirteen comes from. So she eats Katherine Harwood meets a young, you know, teenage Nicky Reid because she's she's either friends with Nicky Read's father or she's dating Nicky Read's father. I don't remember precisely what the situation is, but they become friends and Katherine Hardwood kind of based off her writing Nicki Read's early writing as a teenager, says hey, let's do a movie and gives Nicky Read this amazing opportunity to she's she she co wrote thirteen. Yeah, and she's And because they couldn't find someone that could accurately capture her quote unquote character, she put her in it.

36:39 She said, well, you're going to be in this. I remember reading that afterwards after the movie came out, and I was just like, I was stunned. Thinking about that for a second. So this teenage girl has a lot of you know, parents are divorced, she has you know, some family troubles with their mom ends up moving out at fourteen, she's staying with her dad. That's when she meets Katherine Hardwick. And this woman gives you the opportunity to co write and star in a movie that's going to have one of the actress, you know, Holly Hunter get an Oscar nom. That's unreal. I mean, that's huge, and that's a big win for I think that's a big win for Katherine Hardwick, your first film, Yeah, gets Oscar an Oscar nom. You know we'd all love that, Oh absolutely. But so yeah, she hits the scene with a hit because thirteen, if you didn't see it, you knew someone that saw it, or.

37:43 You would have heard about it. You would. Yeah, this was a water cooler movie. And I'm sure every parent that had a daughter was concerned when they saw this. If they didn't know what was going on in their their thirteen year old daughter's life, they sure as hell wanted to know and they were scared. But yeah, two years later, Lord's a dogtown again. She gets this, this awesome opportunity. She's working with some very young talent and gives us this uh, you know, this faux documentary look to it, and she invites, uh, she invites NICKI read back along Ride, so uh again. Now, she's one of these directors that you know, she she takes a she takes a year or two off in between projects, and it's her next project in two thousand and eight where she has she has arrived, right, I'd say, yeah, let's talk about Twilight.

38:41 Let's let's talk about Twilight. But it is not an awful film. It is not an awful film. I saw my my wife, what you know, when the books first came out. We she read the books, and you know, obviously I went and saw the movie with her, because that's what you do. She's seen enough comic book movies with me too. And you know what, though, it was not a bad movie. And I think one of the main reasons that it wasn't because I tried reading the book and it was a hard read and I couldn't. Get through the book. Oh well, Catherine Hardrock really did a good job of giving it a cinematic presence, and she kept that that cool production design that she's given of films like Three Kings and Two Lords of Dogtown. So it really did have that look.

39:35 Yeah, you're talking about the blue filter that that she's famous for using. Yeah, so can I can I share my pilot story since it since it involves your wife? Okay, now, I remember years ago I was looking for a new book and your wife says, oh, I've got a book for you. And I'm like, well, okay, what do you got? And she's like, it's called Twilight. Now this is true story too, you can ask her. I immediately recognized that this was a book. I saw a lot of girls carrying around, uh in the in the breakroom at work, and I had heard them talking about it and obsessing over it. And I pointed this out to your wife.

40:18 I said, uh, that's probably not for me. That's I and I see I see a lot of I see a lot of women carrying that around. It's seems like it's their thing. And she said, no, Jeff, she said, do you like vampires? Do you like were wolves? I said, obviously, She's like, do you like vampires fighting werewolves? I was like, yeah, you know. Now she's hooking me. I'm I'm pulling. I'm getting pulled in and she's like, this is the book for you, and I was like, well, that sounds awesome. Obviously the girls at work are awesome because they're they're they're reading this. I borrowed a copy from one of the girls at work who looked at me like I had two heads when I asked for it, right, and uh uh. It didn't take me long to figure out that this was not the War of vampires against the werewolves, like like Underworld.

41:08 This is Yeah, it wasn't. This is a this is a teen, This is a this is a this is a girl who is in love with whoever you know, can't make up her mind. I got, I got, I got tricked. Your wife tricked me into reading this book because I finished it. And I will say this for all the faults I find with the book, you know, no, you know, with all due respect to Stephanie Me, Stephanie Meyer, with all with all due respect. Yeah, the movie because the girlfriend I had at the time, it was mandatory that I had to go see it. The movie's not bad, No, it's it shot really well and let's let's let's let's call it what it is. It was. It had a thirty seven million dollar budget and then it made four hundred eight million. Yeah. So my question is how Katherin Hardwick doesn't become an overnight like global sensation where everyone wants to have their movie directed by her, all these studios.

42:15 It's criminal that that didn't. Happen well, and another thing that has kind of overlooked. And as we just recently did an episode on Amy hecker Lane for Johnny Dangerously, Ye, and if you want to go down a crazy rabbit hole, she delivers us a kind of very early mainstream Michael Keaton who goes off to become a great Batman, Catherine Hardwood, which delivers us Robert Pattison, and very recently we're getting a new Batman film with Robert Pattinson. Could the women of Hollywood be the key to all of the Cape Crusader casting in Hollywood? I think they might be.

43:01 That is an excellent theory that I would love. We need to devote a whole a whole episode of that, because oh man, talk about going down the rabbit hole, right. Heckerlin gives you the young Michael Keaton, the comedic. Keych She gives us the young Michael Keaton, and Catherine Hardwick gives us what will eventually, you know, is now Bruce Wayne Batman and Robert Pattison. Yeah, and both those situations is fan outrage. Yeah, when the casting happens only only to show that the fans are wrong. You know, Damn. I did not think about that with with Twilight. Batman kick lately.

43:42 Yeah, there's been a lot of Batman in our world. Yeah, there's been a lot of Batman, you know, definitely. Uh. You know, we have to give a nod to the Shirley Podcast Jason and d for getting us all all excited about Batman right before the new one came out. So uh, But with with Hardwicck, so imagine this. It's the day before you start shooting Twilight and the studio comes up to he says, hey, we need you to we need you to cut four million off the budget tonight before you start. That's ridiculous. No one's gonna be able to do that, and in most cases directors are going over budget. Yeah, Hardwicck cuts the four million, delivers Twilight on time, under budget, and makes this unbelievable, gargantuan success with it. You know, like I said, thirty seven million and grosses four four hundred and eight million. And I think it's unfair what happens to her because she was you know a lot of people were like, how come she didn't do all the movies, right. The bottom line is they, you know, some in entertainment asked her back for New Moon, I think, which is the second one.

44:56 But they had all, you know, based on the what, based on the absurd, you know and nearly impossible request that they made up her for the first time. Well they had any They apparently, as the story goes, they had a lot more. They had more constraints, they had more budget issues. They wanted a lot more control over her. So she does what any smart person should do, and she says, no thanks. Yeah, so she walks away from it. It's you know, she wasn't fired, she wasn't let go. She made the choice to leave that franchise. And I mean, Brad, I don't know, if I don't know, if your wife made you watch the other the we. Not have the same feel. I saw two other ones.

45:37 I saw the second one and the third one, and I could tell that it had lost something. Yeah, it had turned into something else. That was what she did with that first film, which made it feel very, very cold, very gray, very you know. Yeah, it was a teenage movie and they couldn't go our horror with it, but she still kept it in a very mysterious type of vibe. Well, that blue filter, that look that you were talking about when you watch Twilight, because this takes it takes place in Forks, Washington. Uh. She specifically used those cold color palettes that she that she does even with the Lords of Dogtown, because she wanted you to feel the cold and the dreariness of the location. And Chris Whites who comes in to do New Moon, obviously that's not his style. So when you watch the rest of those movies, if you know whether you whether you're whether you're a fan of them, or whether you're like us Brad and you're you're it's mandatory view.

46:49 You could have taken them in a whole new direction if you're stayed on. Yeah, who knows that maybe they would have been good. I'll say it because I thought they sucked, you know, the ones I was forced to watch right regard garbage and but who knows. But very much like you, I did expect. All right, she's proven her point. She can do independent twice basically, and now she's done commercial franchise and have basically given them the king keys to a kingdom of been Like all right, now, you guys can do whatever they wanted it, and you really don't see her getting the kind of work that she should have. Yeah. After that, twenty eleven she does her take on the little Red riding Hood property with Red riding Hood with.

47:37 Didn't see it. It's you kind of want to watch it because of Gary Oldman, but you also don't want to watch it because you might want to lose opinion of Gary. So here's what I'll tell you, because we are we're huge Gary Oldman fans. Yeah, and you know I'm a sucker for werewolves. Yeah, so I will tell you this, watch it, if if only for Gary Oldman and because it's a way you know, you get the wolf. And I shouldn't say it like I like I am saying it because it's not it's not a bad movie, you know. You know she you know, and you know she kind of takes the themes with I think it's like a man. I think it's a man Seafrid who plays a Red riding Hood.

48:26 You know, it's all about the you know, the theme there. The theme there is like the coming of age, like the girl becoming a woman. So there's like that there's that sexual subtlety to it. It wasn't for me per se, but Gary Oldman, come on, you got to see it. So but I almost feel like this was the it was the wrong property for her to do right after Twilight. You know. You know, if you're you know, if you're John Carpenter and you give us an amazing film that has an alien monster in it, you don't follow that up with a film about another alien monster. Yeah, I mean, you can do that again, but just you know, mix it.

49:10 Up at least. Yeah, that's that's that's my take on it. I just think it was not the right time for her to do that, And you know, it didn't make a lot of money, wasn't really popular, and this kind of pushes her. I feel it's unfair because it kind of pushes her out of the Hollywood limelight. Yeah, and she she kind of hits. She lands on on television, you know. Yeah, a lot of television. Twenty eleven to like over the next ten years, almost she's on. She's directing a lot of TV. You know, if you've seen the show, you probably watched an episode that she directed. That's that's basically how it comes out.

49:51 Yeah, it looks like she did things like this is us and yeah. You know popular shows. Yeah, but it's her her return to the big screen in twenty nineteen, uh miss Bala, which it just you know, it didn't look like it was going to be. It didn't look like it like you wanted to watch it, you know, Gina Rodriguez. You know. But I think maybe she's just getting her feet wet. I feel like, you know, there there's something obviously. I think she's gonna find something that's it's gonna bring her back into that mainstream eventually.

50:32 Well is it is it too early to talk about what we want to see next or what she's got next? I don't think so, all right, because she's got she's got two things coming out, okay, or that she's working on. They're there there, She's currently working on on two projects. And I like the sound of both of them. So okay, Well what do you have for me? Okay? So Mafia Mama, And you can tell just by that title it's a comedy, okay. So it's all about a Bourbon American woman who inherits her grandfather's mafia empire. And it stars Tony Collette and the always lovely Monica Bell Lucci. Really okay, that's gonna be a fun one.

51:17 But her other one, that's that that she's working on that's coming out soon. I cannot wait to see it. The film is called Heathen and it's all about It's based off of a graphic novel. It's about a female Viking. You know, that is not gonna be just the the typical stay at home female, you know, sheltered female character. So a period piece though, right, it's a period piece. Yeah, yeah, the female Viking who who is known as the Heathen, you know, so imagine red Sonia, but it's a Viking story and it's gonna be badass.

51:59 Well, well, my pick was going to be I would love to see her do some kind of action film, yes, because I think the way she shoots would would definitely it would definitely be something kind of cool to see. When is the last time we had an awesome Viking movie? What was it, Thirteenth Warrior? Maybe? Okay, so, and that's yeah, that's been a while. I know there's that hit show Vikings. Yeah, we are long overdue for eight. And I'm not talking about you know, the Thorror movies and the MCU because they're fine, right, but we're we are long overdue for like a blood Thursday Viking epic on the silver screen, and it's Katherine Hardwick that's going to deliver it to us.

52:48 Good with that, Well, I'm glad it's getting back to I mean, look, I love TV, but I also love to see filmmakers keep making films. Yep. Absolutely well, Brad you at the end of this episode you said this movie really might not have been for you an any takeaways, any final thoughts. I think the thing that upset me, or not upset me, but kind of maybe let me down, was we could have cut out about twenty scenes of the kids just acting like Dix. I think there were too many scenes where it did not contribute to the story at all.

53:29 Them screwing around in the restaurant, them yelling at old ladies. It was funny, but it was a little it didn't really serve the purpose of the movie, where I thought that they lost an opportunity to talk about a little bit further down the road of more in depth of what Stacy was actually going through. You saw his meetings, but I wanted to know a little bit more of his kind of ride of being thrown into this kind of thing and I felt that was a little left out a little bit, but that was I mean, I didn't like the fact that they were just kind of really not the nicest people to each other. And the really one that I felt anything for was Stacy and sid By the end, I really didn't care for Jay and I didn't care for Tony because I just didn't even care for Rebecca du Mornay. At that point, I was just like, there's a lot of not really just good and it was a lot of I got a little sick of Hey, we just want to party and skate all the time. It was like, Okay, that sounded great.

54:41 So I got a little aggravated of people always being wasted on stuff. Okay, but well, I felt that the movie, I mean I got the movie, I didn't. Not enjoy it. I just felt that there could have been more there with character story where I enjoyed stuff when they discovered things like the pool and doing that, and the only thing that kept thinking during the pool was like, they just got to get rid of that damn light in the middle of the pool. You know, the light is screwing up everything for him. But things like that I started to really like, I just felt that the character development I think with the other characters should have been a little bit more and then cut out the stuff of them just being goofballs and partying all the time. And I think you could have completely got rid of even though the character from Nikki.

55:33 Reid Kathy Tony's sister, yeah. You know, her switching boyfriends and stuff. It's like, you know, you said the movies about friendship, was like, well, Jay obviously didn't think much about his friendship with Stacy because he's going right for her, so some of that stuff was kind of a letdown. I think for me, Well, it's like I said, it is about friendship, but it's about the struggle to maintain friendships over the course of from adolescents to adulthood. Yeah, and I'll respectfully disagree with you because I think it's I think it is a definitely you don't need to be a skate you don't need to be into skating, you don't need to be a skater. It's just it's a great movie. It's it's one I would definitely recommend.

56:15 Much like we were talking, you know, if you want to see Red Riding Hood, see it. For Gary Olben. You got to see Lords of Dogtown for Heath Ledger. Yeah, absolutely, for Heath Ledger. And and it's just fascinating too. You know sometimes when you when you're not into something per se, but it's neat to see the origin and find find out where it came from and why it is so popular anyone that is always that It's ever wondered like when did skateboarding get popular? When did all this stuff? Why is all this stuff? Why do we have it now? This is the movie that answers that. Yeah, and you know, with some of the scenes that you don't like that you would want to cut, I look at like this.

56:58 Stacey Peralta wrote the movie, so he lived the life and whether you know, and obviously I'm sure there's there's embellishments that happened, but this is a this is the dog this is the Z Boys as he saw the Z Boys. So as for the the film by boys, Brad. Uh, we are streaming on all the platforms. Speaking of streaming, if you if you're out there and you want to see Lords of Dogtown. Uh, it's currently on the HBO Max app Yeah. Uh so if you if you got HBO Max, you can watch it there or you can get it on Prime for three ninety nine or I'm sure I'm sure some of the other ones have it for three downey nine. But for all you HBO Max people, it's there. It's ready for you. We are ready for you.

57:46 Uh. Every Tuesday, if you want to get ahold of us uh www dot a film by podcast dot com. You can email us a film by podcast at gmail dot com and on Facebook and Twitter you'll find us at a film by podcast, Brad. Uh, we're getting some some fun stuff us in our way. People are giving us some reviews as always, you know the drill. You give us a good review on on on Facebook, on Apple, podcasts, on Google, on any of these ones. All you gotta do is let us know and we'll be sending you out some some nice film by swag like a stickers and and some other fun stuff right right.

58:31 Yeah, we're gonna come up with some new stuff. Too, absolutely. Yeah. New year, we got some new stuff in the in the works. Uh. Speaking of some fun stuff in the works. Uh, I'm excited about next Tuesday because, as you said, Brad, you were more of a bmxer and we have got the quintessential BMX movie. Wait is it is it BMX Bandits. It is not. It is not BMX band It's I'm talking about the Crew Jones story. I'm talking about RAD. So if it's not being Mex Bandits, it must be RAD. Yeah, it is RAD. And we're doing We're doing RAD for our nineteen eighty six series. Gonna be joined by the Comically Unaware podcast, So doing a little collaboration with those guys. They've got some fun stuff on their on their podcast, so they'll be joining us for a talk about all things RAD and uh and Brad, I got I got a surprise for you, And I know I'm supposed to run this body before we we let everyone know.

59:38 But one more thing about Catherine Hardwick. Did you know that she was also a production designer on a nineteen eighty six movie called Thrashing starring Josh Brolin. No, she not only was the production designer. She is seen on camera in the opening credits when her name pops up on the screen giving her the credit of production designer. She's right there. And if you think I'm not doing a bonus episode of nineteen eighty six to discuss Thrashing. I guess you're gonna have to now. You damn well, no, I'm going to because we're I mean, come on, Dogtown rad Thrashing. We got a whole theme going on here. I can't I cannot wait for it, So the fun in March continues.

1:00:33 Fun never stops here on a film by. That's all right, we'll see you next time. Thank wake up, Thank God, something this same you. It's late September. I really should be back at school. She'd be amused, used or the Maggie. I couldn't never tried anymore. You led me away from just to save you for being you stole know