Ernest Dickerson - Juice

0:00 If we're talking about Juice in the nineteen nineties, what exactly are we talking about respect and power? Jeff. In that case, let's talk about a film by Ernest Dickerson, his nineteen ninety two directorial debut, Juice. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm David Burns, and this is a film by podcast Dave. I am so happy to have you back. It's been a while, man, You've been on the bridge of the enterprise and I have not had any chance to talk to you. Yeah, it's been a little while. I felt neglected a little bit here being on a film buy.

1:00 But man, idiot is good to be back. I am happy to have you back. And before we get going, Dave, I'd be very happy to shout out one of our listeners. I'm talking about Trev Lewis from the UK, Dave. If we can take one minute, I would love to share an email from Trev Lewis, who had this to say about a fumbay podcast. Yeah, let's hear it. Trev Wright's Hi, Jeff and company. I just wanted to email you to say thanks for the podcast. I really do enjoy it. It's down to earth some great information and a general love for film that appeals to me. I'm in the UK, have been a listener for about a year and always look forward to your next episodes.

1:45 I thought it was high time that I communicated my sincere appreciation for what is one of my favorite movie related podcasts. All the best to you and keep up the great work. Wow, that's pretty impressive, thank you. Yeah? Yeah, I mean I love I love when we get feedback like this from our listeners. Yeah. And I reached out to Trev. I had because I was curious. I was like, what what brought you to a film buy? And I guess we have you to think for this Dave, because he said the first episode he found was Jaws two, which he had actually searched for all right, then he went to Piranha and he says he kept the ball rolling from there and he actually listed as some of his favorite episodes Ghostbusters two, the fly Mars Attacks, and the Frighteners. Nice, yeah, all good there, all good picks. Yeah, we we had a lot of fun talking about those. I gotta tell you, like, I kind of feel like maybe we owe Trev one. Like Trev, if you are listening to this episode and we hope you are hit us up, give us a director, tell or a movie and uh and we'll be happy to put that on the roster. Absolutely would so. Dave Ernest Dickers's directorial debut Juice. This is one that I'm guessing a lot of people might not have seen yet, even though it's been around since nineteen ninety two.

3:12 I was one of those. Jeff Sadley, this is this the first time watching for you? This was my first time watch for this spell. Okay, well before before you tell us, we tell thet you tell our listeners what is Juice all about? Absolutely? In the ghettos of Harlem, you don't buy respect, you earn it. Four teens Raheem, q, Bishop and Steele are great friends. They do everything together, including playing arcade games, avoiding cops, deciding to skip school, and a little thievery. But upon chance, they learned their friend and getting killed while trying to rob a bar. Hew is doing his best to become a DJ, but a few of his friends have other plans, especially when Raheem brings a gun into the group and plan to rob a local grocery store. Unfortunately, things take a horrific turn, and what change the Law of these Friends Forever, very powerful movie. It is your thoughts, your initial thoughts, Dave, So, going into this movie, I didn't know what it was about. I didn't know the characters. I didn't know who really was in it. I knew Tupac was in it. I really you know, Omar Epps was in his very early days when he made this film, obviously, so I didn't know much too much about it. But when I started watching it, I immediately fell into how genuine these characters were. One of the things that I found very interesting about this is how the film opens up with just pure innocence, right our characters are waking up start a fresh new day. We get to

4:44 see these families and how they interact with each other, you know, in the morning as they're starting their day. By the time we get to the end of this film, we are seeing a completely different end of the spectrum, a complete contrast from where we started. You know, even the scene with Bishop, how he interacts with his father in the beginning, you know what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about, and how that completely flips by the end of this movie. You know, these characters are like somebody that you would know personally. These characters are so genuine man that it's what makes this film hit so well. For me. I was completely surprised on how well this was written, how well this was performed, and how well this was directed. By the time we got to end of this movie, I was really impressed with it, Jeff, I was hoping that you would be. And when you talk about being impressed, when you say the name Omar Epps, are you say too bogshakor a lot of a lot of their films come to mind quickly, Oh yeah, they're they're they're great actors. But when you realize how unbelievably young and untested these two these two men were, Oh yeah, it blows my mind how great they are.

6:00 They are They're just they're they're electrifying. Yep. In these two roles. Let's let's let's let's talk about Omar EPs for a minute. He plays Q. He is a seventeen year old senior in high school when he auditions for this and he learned how to spin as a DJ for the movie. So all that stuff you see during the mixtape Massacre DJ Competition is authentic. Yeah, that's him, and I don't care who. I don't care who you are. That takes real skill. It takes real talent to do what those DJs can do. Yeah, I mean he wanted to do a singing career, did he not? No, he was going to be a singer, I think, yeah, absolutely, And I think he you know, or an acting career, I believe. But I think even his mother was kind of like against it at first. And I also so she realized how talented he was and then just let him roll with it. But man, yeah, you cannot tell. He looks like a seasoned veteran actor in this movie man, all of them. Yeah. I when you watch him on the screen, he it's just amazing. He like, you got it right, Dave. He just seems so seasoned. He seems like he's been on film sets for years. Yeah. And the fact that he isn't. It's it's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, this is this whole cast. I mean, the chemistry between the four friends, man, you believe it, right, I absolutely believe their chemistry. Tupac Shakor playing Bishop all right,

7:31 so he's nineteen years old in this movie and wasn't even thinking about being a movie star, right, this is his this is his his feature film debut. Let's just for a second, let's just talk about who was up for the role, so we understand who he beats out for the role. Donald Fazen, we know from Clueless Scrubs and those wonderful new T mobile commercials with Zach Graff. Uh Darryl Mitchell, who I know you and I both love from Galaxy Quest. He played uh played Tommy uh Treach from Naughty by Nature and money B from Digital Underground. All of those guys are trying to get this role, and he happened, and it just so happens that he he he's hanging out with money B. He goes to the audition and says, hey, can I can I give this a shot? And Dickerson is floored by his audition mm hmm. And when you watch him in this movie again, you're thinking, man, this is this is his first role and he's this good. It's it's again. He feels like a season actor in this man. It's like it was like pure magic on hitting in all the elements of this film. I swear it was. It's perfect. There's a that that scene where there there he kind of confronts Q at his locker, and he's kind of kind of playful about like, yeah, you called me crazy before, but I am crazy, Like he puts she puts chills on you,

9:03 Like I truthfully believe like this this kid is dangerous. There's so many scenes in this movie where it's like that, you know, he just pops up out of nowhere and just the you know, the emotions and the facial expressions that he brings to that role. You're right, you're just yikes. I mean when he confronts Steele, you know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. You know, it's just like, oh my gosh, and it just over the edge he goes, and he plays it so well. It's it's still hard to believe thinking about how this is his first movie. You know who didn't play it so well on the set was, uh was Sean Puff? Daddy Combs? H did you hear about this? No? What? Apparently P Diddy also one of the role of bishop, and he lobbied so hard for the part and and tried his best. He actually ended up getting banned from the set. Get out of Here, P Diddy, Get out of here. Uh, I'll tell you you think he am about Uh Tupaca must gets you know, almost gets himself banned because he actually gets a little difficult. He goes full method and insists that all cast and crew only call him Bishop. And wasn't there a little bit of a trouble between him and Jermaine Hopkins, uh, who played Steel. Yeah, they got into with each other. Rank prank gone wrong? I think, ye, it's it's it's it's tough for sure.

10:28 You know, you've got a bunch of people with you know, reputations and just you know, different characteristics to to bring them all together like that, and sometimes actors don't mesh very well, but you don't see that on screen at all. No rounding out the foursome. You got Khalil Kine as Raheem and you know we just talked about Jermaine Hopkins, he plays Steel. I mean, I know we're focused on on omar Apps and Tupac Shakor, but on a whole I feel like this group, like like you said, I believe these four friends. I believe that they're you know what you know, the their interaction together. I buy into it completely. Yeah, absolutely, you know when I look at these four friends, which are all played greatly by the actors. When I look at him, you know, you have different roles for these friends, and the way I look at it, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, But you know, Raheem really plays the role of the leader, you know, absolutely. You have Bishop, who really plays like the second man in charge, but really wants to be the leader. Then you have q of course, who is the one of the four who really has a future for himself and is just there to hang out with them, but has a goal in life to move on to be a DJ And of course you've got good old Steele, who is really the innocent one. You know, he's there to be that friend. He's there because you know, they accept him for who he is and what he is, and he just goes along with basically everything that they want to do.

11:58 And that really rounds out these four friends perfectly. And the actors that perform this do it so well throughout this movie. They absolutely do. And I I totally see what you're saying. Rahiem is he absolutely calls the shots. He is in control. But you can see Bishop is power hungry. He he doesn't like being put in, you know, put in his place, and and I you know, and it's kind of like especially you know, we get it. We get a couple We had a couple of moments like that where we see that that interaction that we see that that power dynamic yep. And it's it's uh, it's it's sad foreshadowing because because of what's gonna happen ultimately with this group of friends, you you get that he's kind of like, and I hate to use this analogy, but it's kind of like the star stream of this group. He is, you know, And I know, I don't want to mix Transformers the Juice because use is such a serious film. Yeah, but you know what I'm talking about. He's that he's that guy who you know, will do whatever the leader says, but really wants complete And you really see that in the scene where he gets confronted by that group and at first he's kind of really backing down a little bit. I mean, he's holding his own a little bit, but he kinds of back down until he sees his friends coming and he sees Raheem coming, and then he puffs his chest out and starts putting up that fight because he knows he's about ready to be protected by Raheem and his friends. Yeah, and the twist of that is that happens later down the road when you know, you only have Q and Steel coming and then they back away from

13:28 it and then he has no choice but to defend himself at that point. So yeah, you see that, just that all of that just adding up with this character, Dave, that the Puerto Rican group, the gang, that the gang that you're talking about, that that that is typically trouble for Bishop and his friends. Any chance their dads were orphans, Hey maybe they very well? Me good me want to talk to Apache about that? Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, But you know, one of those scenes that are there's somebody in this movie that I really like. But one of the scenes that I love is when we really see the four friends together for the first time. And you know, that's where you see really the roles of them. When Steele was talking about, you know, getting laid basically, and they were just making fun of him and it's just playing along with what he had to say. I just love the interaction between the four of them right there. Yeah, you know, they're they're there. It's like they're proud of him. But then they start dogging the girl and like, right, doesn't she have like the mustache and doesn't she come on? Yeah, that's yeah, you get You definitely get the feeling that they've been friends from like elementary school. Right. Absolutely. Samuel Jackson a small role, plays a guy called Trip. Is this just proof that you can basically Samuel Jackson can and maybe should be in every single film that comes out, just playing anyone in the background. Yes, he can play any role, anything, no matter how small it is. He is very powerful in it, no matter what. Doesn't he barely interacts with him, but he's always he's just

15:01 in the background, like two or three scenes, yep. And that's because of Samuel Jackson. You're like, I'm kind of I'm forgetting what what these kids are up to, because now I just want to hear what Samuel Jackson saying, because he's having like this little, this weird background conversation with this other guy, and I'm trying, I'm like, what what's he talking about? Well, it's funny too, is later on when he is he has that conversation with Bishop about trying to blame everything on Q. Yeah, and then a little bit later when when Q is in there and he and Trip walks up to Q and they have that conversation on what's going on to You're right, it's like it's like you don't want to hear what Trip has to say. Man, it's Samuel Jackson. We did we need, we need if if this movie needed anything and needed we need a more trip? Yeah we did. What did you think of a Queen? Latifa? As Roughhouse mc? Her introduction was awesome, Jeff, wasn't it great when she came out that door with that with that guy and just letting him have it.

16:00 And it's just yes, hysterical and looking at cute, like, oh crap, what have I got myself into? Oh? Yeah? It just it's hard to believe because she is such a talented actress. Yeah, and where you know she's on a hit series. You know, she's at the Equalizer television show. She's been so many great movies. This is nineteen ninety two, and and I didn't check to see if this was her film debut. It wouldn't surprise me if it was, because I'm not really sure if I've seen her anything else before this, but her characters is legitimate it's authentic what she's doing. I totally believe that she's she's putting together this show. She's the one that's that's uh, that's finding out who's gonna make it. And I love I love seeing her in this absolutely. I mean when she when they had all the DT's out there when they were competing with against was I'm having that huge crowd and she was just controlling everything, you totally believed who she was right there, without question, absolutely and you could see, uh, eagle eyed viewers are going to notice, especially if you were watching MTV in the nineteen nineties, during the competition NAB five Freddy from you O MTV raps is there. That's Ed Lover and doctor Dre from Who's the Man That they were there. So yeah, there's and there's some other notable hip hop stars. But we gotta move on, Dave. We'll tell you what.

17:17 Let's take a quick break and when we get back, we got to talk a little bit about the production of this movie. Little background on the film. I'm good. We are back talking about Ernest Dickerson's directorial debut, Juice David's written by Ernest Dickerson and Jerrar Brown, yep, as a spec script all the way back in nineteen eighty four. Crazy, right, because till ninety come out in ninety two, Yeah, comes out? Yeah, written in eighty four. Well, I mean he puts it on hold though, because he wants to focus on his career as a cinematographer. But the movie itself is based on interviews that Dickerson did with several of his friends, Yeah, as well as his personal experiences growing up in Newark, New Jersey.

18:04 And that's why it's so genuine and so realistic because you believe that things are happening on screen. You believe these characters because you can tell it came from true elements throughout what he had experienced or who he interviewed experience. You can you can just see it, man, And that's why this movie is so good. Yeah, it's it's uh, it's got it's almost got like an autobiographical feel to it. It does, honestly. Yeah, here's what can't here's what I can't believe. When it was initially optioned, the studio suggested turning it into a comedy. No way. I'm glad. I don't know, but I hope they don't have a job anymore. Yeah, thankfully Dickerson and uh Jar Brown took the rights back to the script. So you know, if we had to wait, that's fine. But you gotta wonder, like and uh and I know, I know our friend Deaf Dave, who is a a an expert on nineteen eighty four, the movies and the music of nineteen eight four. You gotta wonder if this movie comes out in nineteen eighty four, who gets cast in these roles? You know that that might be one for deaf Dave to answer for us. But I don't think if it did come out eighty four, I don't think we would have the powerful film once we got in nineteen ninety two. I mean, could be I could be wrong, but I don't think some of the things they can get away with in nineteen ninety two they would not have been able to get with in nineteen eighty four. You're right, You're right. Yeah, you know we talked. We're talking about authenticity. This movie is shot on location in

19:37 Harlem, yep. So it it just feels it just feels real. It's that's another point I want to make there too, Jeff. There's not a lot of them, but some movies just do so much stuff on studios anymore, and you just don't get that tangible feel to them anymore. Movies that are shot on location, like this one and so many more, you know, older films that we always talk about, they just have that more realistic feel because they're filmed on location. I wish more and more movies would do that. I know they're not cheap to do it on location, which is why a lot of studios do the studio thing. But man, you just get that genuine feel. I keep using that word genuine, but this movie is just so genuine. That's why I use it a lot. You know. It's just it's even it's it's it's the minor things, right like when Raheem is having a debate that quickly becomes an argument with his ex girlfriend yep, and you see you see Q just standing there in the background. He is standing there kind of shivering because you know, they're shooting this movie in the winter months, and and Omar Epps is just he's just standing there trying to stay warm. So it just you know, and you're like, man, he's you know, looking at him, he's definitely shivering. It's little things like that that I completely dig I want to ask you about this.

20:55 I would love to hear your take on this. Can we talk about the original for the film? Oh yeah about the Yeah yeah, yeah, let's talk about Okay, so listeners. In the original ending, Bishop, let's go okay, So let's set this up, right, Dave. After the final conflict, right after the final the rooftop fight on the rooftop, Bishop goes over the rooftop. Q catches him, right and there's this moment where he's like, you know, don't let go of me. And Q does everything he can, but ultimately he can't hold on. He's not strong enough to hold on. Yep. Bishop falls to his death. In the original ending, Bishop was the one that let go of Q's hand, deciding that he would rather fall to his death than go to jail. Yep. And this was kind of a reference if you remember, like when they're hanging out at Steel's house and Steal's making them some food. They're sitting there watching the movie White Heat from nineteen forty nine, that J Cagney movie. It's one of the greatest gangster movies of all time, right of course, yeah, you know, made at my top of the world and Bishop is loving this movie. I mean, he is thrilled with this ending. And the whole idea was that Bishop. This was Bishop's white heat moment that he was he was he was choosing. You know. He hears the police sirens in the background. He's I'm not going to jail, and he lets go of Q's hand plummets to his death. Apparently test audiences didn't care for it, Nope,

22:29 and Paramount executives demanded that Dickerson change it. I kinda, I kind of I got aside with Dickerson on this one. I feel like, maybe that's the better, the better I do it for Bishop. What do you think? I agree he realizes where he put himself because this is all his fault yep, and what what other options do you have here? You know, he would not want to be rescued, in my opinion, So I'm with Dickerson on this one. I would have gone with his original ending, And I don't understand why I didn't test well that way, because to me, I would have liked that ending a whole lot better the whole sequence. Jeff, I know we're going to talk about We're talking about the ending right now, but let's talk a little bit more about some of the stuff that led up to that. Oh, absolutely good for it. One of the coolest shots in this film is when Bishop appears behind Q like Michael Myers out of the darkness. You know. When that shot happened, I was like, oh my gosh, that has horror written all over it. And I just love the directing style that he had in this. But the whole fight Sequen's like when they fight and then Q gets away and they're chasing one another, and then he goes to that party. He gets into the elevator and right before the elevator shuts, Bishop like holds the door open and then steps in and they're just staring at one another. And then you're like, well, what's the bishop going to do here? There's too many people in here.

23:52 Of course he's gonna still pull the gun out and go after it. I'm like, holy correct, yeah, yeah, because this whole film, I mean, let's let's let's face it there. You know, like we like we said Q has a future, but they're they're running scams. You know, they're hanging out the arcade, you know, they're hanging out trips place, and they're you know, they get this this this terrible idea like let's let's rob the let's rob the liquor store, right, and it just falls apart from that from that moment on because Bishop shoots the Yeah, Bishop shoots the guy you know, behind the counter. And then you know he made he didn't make a movie. He did not make a move. But in that moment when he then then he you know, when he kills Raheem.

24:49 At that point you're like, whoa, whoa, this is this is your friend, Like what what are you doing? Like Bishop goes off the rails because he we've seen him like he again your Starscream reference. He's power hungry. He wants to be the one calling the shots, and that that loaded gun in his hand is giving him that power. He's yeah, he's getting the power. He's getting the power so that he can get the respect he's getting. You know, he wants it. He wants the juice. Yeah, because he he waves that gun around like it's nothing. You know, I mean, he's these guys he's he's grown up with and probably kindergarten man. He's waving it at them and threatening them with it like it's nothing.

25:30 It really went to his head and went to his head fast, absolutely, even, like, I mean that's Raheem's gun. Yeah, and he's like, I'm gonna hold on to it. Why does he get to hold on it? He's like, because I'm the one holding it is yeah, you know. Yeah. I my Joe hit the floor cause, like I said, this was my first time seeing this movie. So my Joe literally hit the floor when he shot and killed Raheem. I'm like, are you kidding me? Did that just happen? And then what really broke my heart to Jeff is when he shot Steel later on, I'm like, this dude is so innocent, man, why are you threatening and going after him? I get it, the gun's gone to his head and he's gone crazy. You know, he's tying up loose sins. Yeah, he's trying to get himself exactly. Yeah, but it's just that really broke my heart man, when he shot Steel. I know we're she was more of the main character of this film, clearly, but I really I was just drawn to Steel for some reason. I guess maybe he had a lot a lot of lights that I have, you know personally too, So I guess that's why I felt a lot more lost. I mean, I know Steele didn't get killed, he was taken to the hospital and stuff, but still, you know, it was it was rough to see that scene. Yeah. Well still still is the heart of the group. He's the fun loving guy. Yeah, he's you kind of want to relate to him. He's just he's he just want to have a good time with his buddies, right, is it?

26:45 Can we talk about the pivotal scene? Are you ready for that? Yeah, let's talk about it. So, I think the pivotal scene for this one, for me is what we've already kind of talked about. When he shoots the clerk. I didn't think it was going to happen, you know, And when he goes and shoots the poor guy in the head and the guy was pleading for his life. You know, he wasn't he wasn't doing anything wrong. He said, you know, take the money. You know, I'm not gonna say anything, just go just go take the money. It just was such at a loss there when you know, Bishop pulled the trigger there, and it wasn't just for that. It was the loss of innocence. It was a loss for his friendship with his friends because we knew that where that was going to go. I didn't know he was going to kill him and hunt him down like he did, but it just everything was shattered right there at that moment. And when you talk about a pivotal point, you talk about a plot point or anything that drives the story into a different direction. Clearly that was the point in this movie. That's not about It's not a bad option. I'm gonna go with a different one.

27:52 And I say this knowing that we see Tupakshu Corp's Bishop on a full power trip. He's waving guns at people, he's chasing people, he's attempting to murder people as this spiral is out of control. But the pivotal scene for me is Bishop consoling Raheem's mother after the funeral. Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. To me, my god, that is Tupac Shakur doing his best work in this movie. It's Bishop at his most dangerous. Because poor Q is sitting here, he's at the wake for his best friend Raheem.

28:38 He knows, he knows that Bishop is the one that shot him. And everyone's like, why did this happen? Please have no leads, And the last person you expect to see show up is Bishop, and Bishop is there and when he walks up to Raheem's mother in front of Q, and he's like, do you remember me? We were like brother you know, me and me and Raheem are like brothers. And he puts his he put you know, he gives her that hug, and while he's hugging her, he's staring right at Q. Again chills because I'm like this, this guy is scary. Like now we know there's nothing that he won't seek to.

29:18 You know, that is a spectacular moment, Jeff, I did not think about that one. But he even told her he was like a brother to me as as he was hugging her, and just you knowing that he's the one that is responsible for that death. And I wanted to bring up a story here about this scene because I know stuff like this can happen. Okay, my hometown, this happened exactly the same way. I want to say, a couple of years ago, one of the guys here in my hometown and I don't want to say the name because I don't want to give it away or anything like that, but in the in my hometown, which is a small town, it a guy disappeared, and about a week later they found his body out in the country on the side of a road in a ditch. Well, just as Bishop did this to his mother, so did the killer in my hometown. He went to the mother to the family and said, oh my goodness, he you know, he was like a brother to me. You know, I will help you try. This is the when they didn't find him yet too, and he's like, I'm going to help you guys find him. And he was actually in the party searching for this guy and then come to find out he is responsible for killing his friend.

30:37 Same scenario. So I know this stuff is real. So I know when Dickinson wrote this story, it's this stuff happens, man, Yeah, this is life. Yeah, and it's it's crazy because you think that stuff is fictional. You think that this is just made up by a writer. No way. I when I saw when I saw that, and I'm glad you brought this up. I don't know why I didn't go to it and gravitate to it because this really happened to my hometown a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's real. Well, Dave, let's take one more break. And then we got to talk about Ernest Dickerson. Oh, of course we do. Welcome back everybody. Jeff, what can you tell us in our listeners about Ernest Dickerson. Ernest Roscoe Dickerson studied architecture at Howard University, but his love of movies compelled him to head to New York City to enroll in the New York University's film program at the Tish School of Arts.

31:33 And Dave, I know you know his his famous classmate. I do know his famous classmate. And I think once we say the name, if nobody knows that you're gonna not, you're gonna be surprised. And that, of course Spike Lee, Jeff, Spikey, of all the people that you're gonna meet and say, let's let's team up, let's do some let's let's work together. Spike Lee is the the that you meet. And he became the cinematographer for Spike Lee and a few of his films, Got to Have It, School Days, Do the Right Thing, No Better, Blues, Jungle Fever, and let's not forget about Malcolm x. Oh yeah, I mean the idea that he is involved with so many of Spike Lee's best films.

32:23 It's one of those things where you're just like wow, because yeah, I think like the first time he's working with Spike Lee. It was the We Cut Heads Yeah, short film that they did in school. What I was gonna say to you, let's go back to what you talked about of why he kind of put this script on the back burner in nineteen eighty four is because, I mean, this is another reason he was working with Spike Lee. He was a cinematographer, which was his first love, obviously, and he knew I'm sure he knew where he was going with his relationship with Spike, because you would not have wanted to put that on the back burner, right, Not at all? No, not at all. I'llah. You mentioned, you know, you mentioned several of the incredible films that he he worked with Spike on. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out two of my favorites that he He didn't do these with Spike Lee, obviously, but he was a cinematographer also for Crush Groove in nineteen eighty five. Yeah, and Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy raw that Robert Townson, Yeah, Robert Townson directed that one in eighty seven. Yep. So guys, should some love to crush groove man? Yeah, of course you do. But man, look at this work this guy has already got before he does his director debut.

33:34 Absolutely, you know, and think about this. So he graduates and he's a cinematographer on a couple of music videos for Bruce Springsteen and Miles Davis, and then he goes to work on the first two seasons of George Romero's series Tales from the Dark Side. Yep, remember how creepy that show was? I do? I loved that show. Yeah, I mean, did he not do Hailus in the Dark Demon Night? He did? We're going to get to that. That's awesome. Love that one and a few more things about mister Dickerson. In nineteen ninety, he became the first black man to become a member of the American Society of Cinematographers. He's taught film classes at Howard University's School of Communications and Dave his all time favorite film is John Houston's Moby Dick Good choice. Yeah, you want to talk about his filmography, Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So we've been talking about his debut with Juice two years later, nineteen ninety four Surviving the Game. Oh yeah, this is one of those you know, we've talked so I feel like we've talked so many times about movies based off of the Most Dangerous Game, and I know we've referenced Surviving the Game before, but you know, he's working with Tupac Shakor in Juice and now two years later he's working with Iced Tea and surviving the Game. Your thoughts on Surviving the Game. It's been a while since I've seen that one. I remember really liking it.

35:07 I did not see that in the theater when that came out. This one, this one was for me. I know, I didn't see it in the theater. This was I think this was like a you know, I caught it on HBO or Cinemax something like that. Yeah, I remember, like t is like a homeless man who's hired as a survival guide. That's right, and you know obviously they're there to hunt him, you know, Rutger Hower, Charles S. Dutton, Gary Busey, F Murray Abraham. It's it's an incredible cast. If you haven't seen yeah, you know, I know you said, yeah, it's been a Watson you've seen it. It's definitely one of those, like I'm ready to go back and watch it again. Oh yeah, it's fantastic. Absolutely love that. It's one of you know, there's a lot of these, and I mean we've seen Most Dangerous Game, Dave you even we've even seen it in the original sixty six Star Trek and that's how that's how far back this storyline goes. But I love what Ernest Dickerson does with it in this movie. Yep. Now obviously you're you already mentioned this one might might be my favorite Ernest Dickerson film.

36:13 Talking about nineteen ninety five's Tales from the Crypt presents Demon Knight. Yeah, great performance about Billy Zane in this one. Love Billy Zaye Man, Yeah, I think was it. William Williams Sadler I think was in this. Yeah. And Jada Minckott Smith, Dick Miller, Dick Miller, you know, I know. Yeah, that's right. Uh C. H. Pounder, Thomas Hayden Church. This is just one of those. This is one of those great movies that kind of is like a mashup of multiple genres. If you listeners, if you haven't seen Demon Knight, and I have to believe most of you have, but if you haven't. Uh. Something that Ernest Dickerson said about Demon Knight, and I'm quoting him here. I've always enjoyed films that did a bit of genre blending, and I thought the story for Demon Knight did that perfectly. It was the perfect storm of horror, humor, thrills, had some mystery to it and a lot of emotion.

37:17 So I immediately knew this was going to be a very atypical horror movie to be involved with. Yeah, and I believe the Blood of the Christ, wasn't it. Yeah? They Yeah, like the key that the collector. Billy z Ayin's the collector. He's like this demon and the whole the whole idea is like the the you know, the mcguffin, if you will, is this key that kind of controls the fate of the universe. He's filled with the Blood of Christ and that's what kind of keeps the demons at bay. And then you've got like, you know, William Sadler is playing I'm trying to remember his name, Uh, Breaker, I think is what the character's name was. But his you know, he's kind of at the end of his rope and he's he's looking for the the next chosen one. It just happens to be Jada Pinkett Smith, you know, to continue the fight against the demons. It is so awesome, Absolutely is awesome. Now a year later he does he kind of takes a foray into comedy. He does Bulletproof with Damon Wayans and and Adam Sandler. Not a bomb by any means, but yeah, a little bit of a misfire. Yeah, I think that. I think it's fair to say. Yeah, I mean, comedy, comedy action. It's buddy cop action, you know, got that vibe to it. But I just it just didn't hit as far as I'm concerned, I don't know, all right, you agree with me, So I'm glad to see that. This is where we start to see Dickerson fade just

38:52 a little bit, and it bums me out. I mean, and I'm talking about like on the big screen. Because yet he does a film called Ambush, which isn't too much of a big hit, follows that up with Blind Faith in the same year. That's a made for TV movie he does with Charles S. Dutton and Courtney B. Vance. I would like to see it just based on that, I think it was a I think it was a Showtime original movie. Maybe. Yeah. Two thousand and one, he's back on the big screen with Snoop Dogg, this time Bones Bones. Yep, I haven't seen this one, Dave? Is it and I don't know? It's a horror film though, supernatural horror film with Snoop Dogg.

39:36 Yep? Hell's wrong with this? How come we I'm wrong with it? I guess so, I guess. So listeners, let us know. You gotta email us, You got to hit us up on social media and tell us if we've made a mistake by not seeing Bones, because I kind of feel like we should go back and see it, Dave. But you know, if the floodgates open and they're like, what's what's wrong with you? Guys? This is his best work? Well, well we'll we'll do a retraction, we'll do a we'll do a follow up. Never Die Alone was the one he does with d m X again. It's uh, I liked it, Yeah, I didn't love it. Yes, him here, it's uh, well, who's that David Arketta? Believe was in that one too, wasn't he? Yeah? Exactly our kat Yeah that yeah. D m X like I I wanted to see. I love David Arquette, love his stuff, so I kind of was into it for that. Obviously, this is the time, at disappointing time. DMX is blowing up on the music scene. His mus his music's awesome, and I was like, all right, let's let's see if he can let's see if he can act. So I wasn't disappointed, but I just wish. I wish it would have I wish it would have hit a little bit harder. I guess. Yeah, then he does a ton of TV again, Jeff like he loved television.

40:59 Yeah, his television. I mean, okay, So we talked about his cinematography. We've talked about his film his feature films. But man, I mean okay, because we'll be here all night if I do this, you know, slowly. But let me just run down a list of some of the biggest shows he's been a director for, Okay, two thousand and three to two thousand and eight. He's directing The Wire for HBO. He's done Third Watch, The L Word, Criminal Minds, er CSI, Miami Heroes, Masters of Horror, Weeds, Dexter, Law and Order, Burn Notice, The Vampire Diaries, Stargate Universe, The Walking Dead like from twenty ten for two from twenty ten to twenty twelve, he's on The Walking Dead.

41:53 He does Under the Dome, I mean, The Perge House of Cards. Yeah, he's I mean, just a prolific television director. Yeah, he's busy, don't get me wrong. Oh yeah, yeah. Listen, we would love to see him back doing work on the big screen, but he's booked. I mean, you know, this past year he's been on a Bosh legacy and right now he's working. He's done a couple episodes of a film, a show called The Irrational. I've not seen any of that. That one's it's new to me too, American crime drama on NBCA, So may have to check that one out. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, just an incredible career for this guy. You know, we love to talk about what's next for the director or what we'd like to see them do. Sadly, he does not have anything in pre production, nothing in development, no big screen. So, Dave, if you're picking his next project for him, if you're pitching something to Ernest Dickerson, what would you want to see him do? He's he's so good at character driven stories. Let's bring that back. I want I want something small, and I want it to be And since I kind of referenced a John Carpenter style shot that he had in Juice with the with Bishop coming out of the shadows like Michael Myers dead to

43:25 Laurie Strude, I want to see something horror because more I know he's done some horror stuff. I want to see something more along a John Carpenter style film. John Carpenter could even produce if he wants to. But I want to see something in like a small town something in the style of like the Fog, where I'm not saying the fog, I'm just saying a small time, small town kind of vibe that we got going on. And obviously the movie is really driven by the characters themselves because he's so good at character development. He's so good about giving you that genuine feel and I keep using that word it ops up a lot because he does it so well. He gives that realistic vibe to his characters that I think he could pull that off, you know, kind of like a Stephen King missed you know where you know, you got those characters who are stuck in a grocery store with you know, the mist surrounding them, something small like that, something contained, but you know, in the genre of horror, that's what I would like to see him do. Sounds good. What about you. I'm gonna throw something at you and I think you're gonna love it because I'm also gonna throw an actor that I know you're a big fan of that we are big fans of.

44:45 I want to see Ernest Dickerson do a modern version of White Heat. Oh, okay, and I wanted to do it with Corey Hawkins. Okay, we love that guy. Yeah, obviously, obviously he's he's he's incredible and uh, straight out of Compton. But you and I you know last year the Last Voyage of the Demeter, Yeah, Corey Hawk. Yeah. I want to see Corey Hawkins in the James Cagney role. Yeah. I want Angela Bassett to play the mother Okay, okay, and the undercover cop yeah, Lakeith Stanfield. Oh, and we can change it all right. Let me let me ask you this, keep the original title White Heat or do we change the title to Top of the World. Oh, I'm going with a title change. Are you going to title change? I'm going title change Top of the world. Hmm, all right, let's do it.

45:43 I like it, man, that's a that's a good choice. Ernest Dickerson, he's on Instagram. I you know, I'm gonna reach out to him to say, hey, can we how about this? Can we do this? You know what us? I would like to see him do that. I would like to see him team up with Jordan Peel. Oh my god, can you imagine what we could get if those two would team up? Man? Okay, so you're talking more like a like an anthology film. Yeah, yeah, let's let's he he We know he did Tales from the Dark Side, we know he did Tails from the Crypt, So let's have him and Jordan. He'll join up for something along those lines, or you know, something like creep show or anything like that. I think that would be so cool. Man, you are blowing my mind about that idea.

46:32 I would love that. Dave. Let's let's wrap up here. Your recommendation or lack thereof for Juice? What what do you think of If you've not seen this film, you should definitely check it out. There's a lot of good cinematography in here, a lot of great character development, great story that needs to be seen. So many scenes. We could sit here and be talking about it for a long time, but definitely check it out. You're absolutely right. I think when you look at films that examine black youth growing up in crime affected neighborhoods where the danger is heightened by gang activity and police harassment, Singleton's Boys in the Hood and The Hughes Brothers Minister Society will always be the first movies mentioned. But Juice. Juice needs to be in the conversation. I completely agree. Yeah, if you've not seen it, you can currently stream this one on max is that where you saw Dave? I Y sure is awesome for those of you want in the Blu Ray, you know, because we love our physical media. Dave, we do fantastic audio commentary on the Blu Ray. By the way, I would love to listen to him talk about a movie. I think that would be really interesting, especially to talk about this movie. I need to check that out. Jeff, come on over, we'll watch it again. All right, Listeners, what do you think of Tupac Shakor's film debut and Juice? You can let us know on social media. We are on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

48:00 You can check out a film by podcast dot com for film and TV articles and our entire library which is streaming free. And like our good friend across the pond, trav Lewis, you can write us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some a film by swag, or maybe we'll do an episode, right David mind, that's right, we'd love to do that. What's a busy week? Uh, what's happening tomorrow? Well, Jeff and Terry, it is a really busy week for us. Tomorrow we're gonna be back on the bridge of the Enterprise. That is right, Phasers set to stun with my fellow host Scott Hoffman and Wayne Whited. We'll be talking about season four of Star Trek the Next Generation, where we're gonna give you those top ten episodes that you need to watch.

48:57 These you guys are calling the star Starter track. Yep, Man, they have been such a great source of supplemental material for someone like me who has recently jumped into the world of the Next Generation. Yeah, and I'm loving what you guys are doing, so you guys to keep it up. We're going to keep it up. We're going to keep it up. We have a lot of fun and Jeff, the week doesn't stop there man. On Friday, a Film at forty five returns for a forty fifth anniversary of Norma Ray. All right, that's right, you got you and Scott Hoppin. You and Scott Hoppin very busy this week and I we have been. I like it well, but I know when you, when you guys are busy, I'm less busy. So I'm I'm as a fan of it, that's right. But you know, March is a woman history mom. So you know what better way to start than talking about Norma Ray? Right, I think it's a great way to start the start the month off and next time on a film buy Mary kay Holmes from my new favorite podcast, Share a Sandwich, will join us to discuss a film by Lynn Ramsey, her twenty seventeen neo noir thriller You Were Never Really Here? All right? Sounds good, Dave. It's always a pleasure, uh seeing you across the table uh, and the discussing movies. So thank you as always always man for great could be here, love it it takes place and listeners, thanks for listening,

50:28 talk the whole job. I'll go with queens for queens to get the brook tickpony in my hand and they never been took to go uptown and the proks and we'll be down to stroll them on the al of for Leah Brown the time to Bill watches back up that get smacked up? Do you want to bring us up? You want to bring us back? Yeah, welcome back, Jeff. What do we know about Eric Dickerson? Can you tell us give us some background? Sure, Eric Dickerson didn't he play for the Falcons? I don't know, hope, but were probably should talk about Ernest Dicker's story story. My brain, my brain is like a hello, hello. Oh there there's the out take. There's the outtake.