F. Gary Gray - Law Abiding Citizen

0:00 Andrew, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court. It's frustratingly true and also bullshit. All right, well, let's talk about a film by f Gary Gray, his two thousand and nine underrated thriller Law Abiding Citizen. Hello, everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Andrew Blakeley, and welcome back to a film by podcast. You know that line has been said by Denzel Washington and Training Day, by Tom Cruise and a few good men, and by Jamie Fox in Law Abiding Citizen. Who Who's who did it best? Who did it best? Given those three, it's it'd be really hard not to say Denzel just on name alone, but Training Day, come on, I love a few good men and but and Jimmie Fox is a very talented actor, but it's a Denzel in Training Day hands down.

1:25 Well, before we get going on this one, she's not in the studio with us right now, but we got to shout out Amber Lewis because she is our newest member of Patreon. I got I got that, I got that notice and I text her and I was like, hey, but you know you're you're you're in Patreon, And she said I want to hear the episodes I'm doing and I want more. I was like, all right, well, thanks for joining, you can Actually she's done well, you know she did. Uh she did the Mosquito Coast for our are are ongoing nineteen eighty six series. Yeah. I think that was the first Patreon Patreon one I was on as well. It was, yeah, you've done a couple episodes on there, she's done several. I can only imagine what kind of exclusive episode she's uh, she's planning to do and whether or not she's gonna it's gonna be like a written by, starring by produced by type situation.

2:23 But uh, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta imagine it's gonna be an excellent one because uh, you know hashtag team member. I'm I know, I'm on I'm on that side. So if you want to get on that side, Uh you want to you want to get your own exclusive episode, Uh, you got to go to patreon dot com backslash a film by podcast. Uh, sign up for a free seven day trial, and if you see what you like, there's video content. So I guess I can't say if you see what you like and if you hear what you like, keep subscribing. We got some good stuff over there for you, Andrew, for the listeners that maybe are not aware of law abiding citizen. You want to give us a quick synopsis of what this one's all about. Yeah, absolutely. Clyde Shelton's family is brutally murdered. The ones responsible are caught.

3:13 However, because of improper procedure, the da Nick Rice has only circumstantial evidence, so he decides to get one of them to testify against the other. When Shelton learns of this, he is not happy. Ten years later, the one who is convicted is being executed, but something goes wrong. His execution goes awry and he suffers. They learned that someone tampered with the machine, and the other is found dead, killed in a gruesome manner. Rice suspects Shelton, so he hasn't picked up. At first, Shelton agrees to a plea agreement with Rice, but changes his mind. It appears that Shelton is not done. It appears he blames the whole system and is declaring war on it, going after everyone involved with his family's case. So Rice has to stop him, but Shelton is way ahead. Well read there Andrew so Jamie Fox as Nick Rice and Gerard Butler as Clyde Shelton. Now initially these roles were reversed. Interesting. I feel like this movie was wrong for Jamie Fox. He's an extremely talented actor. So this isn't you know, knocking him or saying, you know, he wasn't up to it. I think that he's too cool for Nick Rice, or at least the way he played it. He played it as you know, the slick, badass like cool Jamie Fox. And I think that sort of detracts because I think this movie had the potential to be sort of like Silence of the Lambs style,

4:46 like Cat and Mouse, like psychologically toying with each other. And part of the reason that worked was because of the you know, the humanity of Clary Starling. And Nick Rice just felt way too cool to me. And I think that Jamie Fox test to work to not be cool. He's just he's a cool guy, you know. Oh Okay. So he wins the Oscar for Ray in two thousand and four, yep. In two thousand and five, he does Stealth and Jarhead Miami, Vice and dream Girls. In two thousand and six, The Kingdom in two thousand and seven, and then he's doing this and the Soloist with Robert Downey Junior the same year, So he does have to work to not be cool. You got something. I think you're onto something there. He and again he's a very talented actor, Like several of those movies are great, but several of them are also garbage.

5:35 He's not great at picking roles. Is I think that the one Knocko would again go against Jamie Fox? Now depending on who you believe. It was his camp that said, hey, what if Jamie's the lawyer and not the killer, because initially he's he's the one that's you know, his family gets slaughtered and then he's the one playing all the mind games in the cat and mouse stuff. Do you think that was the right choice? Do you? I mean we talked about the roles being reversed. Does this movie work more for you if Butler is the lawyer and Jimmy Fox is Clyde Shelton? No?

6:15 I think. I mean, they're both very talented, but I think it works better with Butler has this aggression I guess about him, like he's a you know, it worked so well for him in three hundred you know, this is only I think that the following year, like he's really good at playing that just that rage and that violence, and he obviously keeps it a little more subdued in this movie, but I think that that works much better as as Clyde as the antagonist, I guess, for lack of a better word, in this movie than it would have had the roles been reversed. I definitely believe the savagery that he does in this film, and it is you know, you know, you think roles like three hundred, he's meant for something like this, But it's the tender side he has to show in this movie where I think he's really doing something different. I mean, think about think about when Jamie Fox explains the plea deal to him and he's just like, no, I was I was the eyewitness. I saw it.

7:15 I was there, you know, yeah, I mean, your heart's breaking for the guy at that point, and this is what Yeah, And especially like when I first started watching this, the opening scene is pretty horrific, and initially my reaction was like, that might have been a bit too far. I think it maybe showed a little too much of the horror of it. But then I think it leads into that scene and it really cements his motivation and his character and the pain. And I think he did a pretty decent job of that, better than I. If I were a casting director and I needed that, I wouldn't have thought Gerard Butler, No, I'll be honest. The home invasion that takes place at the beginning of this movie is terrifying, and we have to remember this was initially given an NC seventeen rating for the violence. I think that scene is harder to watch because there's a lot of implied violence. I mean, we the knife, like, it's not like the guy is just brutally stabbing him. He just kind of slips it in like he's yeah, like yeah, I don't even know what to call that. But you know, the the rape of his wife, we don't see it. It's but we know that's about to happen.

8:33 And then just taking the little girl into the other room, and you know he has that Ah. Kids like me, you're just you're terrified because we don't know. It's the shark and Jaws. We don't see it. So it's a lot scarier, right, Yeah, And I can see why if you know, depending on how they edited that scene down. How this could have easily Gottenn NC seventeen rating, but because it felt more like a scene out of something like hostile than it did. You know, this this more psychological really to to just kick things off. But then to your point, when he has that dramatic like sad scene realizing what the DA has done or or what the lawyer has done, it really does just break your heart for this guy. I mean, your heart's already broken, and like this is the last little shreds being stopped on when you when you see when they're out, when they're outside the court and Darby does the handshake scene mm hmm with Jamie Fox, and you see that weak shell of Butler watching from a distance, and it's like he's getting stabbed in the gut all over again. Right, Yeah, Yeah, he's got he's got a like a just in in everything. Like it's funny to watch uh, Gerard Butler try to do like rom comms and stuff, because I feel like just inherently he brings a lot of this like rage. It's like even when he's just standing still, this like kind of inner rage to everything he does. At least that's what I see the funny. The funny thing about Butler so before before he's an actor, he actually went to law school in Scotland. Interesting he graduated and was

10:05 a trainee lawyer at a law firm in Edinburgh, and one week before he qualifies as a lawyer, he's fired at the age of twenty five. Yeah, now, not for incompetence. If you do a little digging, you'll find that in his early twenties, Jar Butler was a little bit of a wild card, like to have a little too much fun, got himself in a little bit of trouble here and there. I can see that. Yeah, But I think I think both these characters, when you're talking about Nick Rice and Clyde Shelton, they're both kind of living in a gray area throughout the film. You know, one is a good person who slowly becomes bad, while the other is morally compromised and slowly becomes a better person. I think, yeah, I think that movies like this when done well, like neither character is all good or all bad, and it makes you ask some questions, maybe answer some questions. I wish it had gone a little harder in a couple of those categories, but I will say and you know, this feels a little silly to say on a podcast discussing this movie has a lot of like twists and turns and reveals. So I recommend if you're listening this far and you haven't watched it, go do so before you listen, because you know, as they reveal a lot of this stuff about his character, I was almost a little disappointed that they revealed as much as they did about Clyde because I liked the gray area he was in to start, and

11:39 by the end of it it felt a little bit less complex, almost Okay, they added the less I was like, oh, interesting. So you're saying, if Clyde, maybe he doesn't have the background. You know, we got our spoiler warning, so let's just jump rout. So you're saying, if Clyde doesn't have this shadowy background working for the d O D and you know, I think I think the CIA informant says, he's he's a he's a think tank guy. If Clyde went you dead, you're dead, you know, And this guy's terroor he's almost he's practically terrified of even giving this much information in an alleyway to the DA right exactly, and I think that that took a thing that was really morally nuanced and complex and kind of turned it into more of a cliche. And that was a bit of a letdown for me because you know, again I I don't I think this movie, with a couple of tweaks, could have had more of a like Hannibal Lecter type feel where it's like he's always smarter than you, but not necessarily like you know, he's some superhuman military hero that can destroy everything, you know what I mean. So if you don't, so if you don't have the superhuman military hero background or a cliche, is more of a Charles Bronson death wish vibe? Is that more fitting for someone like Clyde Shelton a little bit? You know, it's been ten years. I like the idea that you know, with enough time and dedication in ten years, he could actually

13:11 plan some stuff. Yeah, you don't need the whole like traveling to other countries and buying properties and YadA, YadA, YadA, Because for me, like that starts to get into procedural cop shows and less psychological warfare between two people, which is like that that was where this movie shined. Yeah, I think that, Yeah, like they could. When they did it, they did it. Well. You know, a character like Clyde, I think of him as as a great example of vigilanti right, and granted he did take it too far. You and I have had some some some wonderful conversations on the act of vigilantism. Specifically, are differing opinions on Batman.

14:03 Yeah, specific Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned Batman because like, think about like in this film Clyde, he dedicates ten years planning the same plotting it. I mean, he's got the money, he's got the connections, he's got the intelligence, he's got the physicality. He could be Batman, but he's he's a punisher instead. Yeah, he's a punisher instead. And you know, I you know where I'm at on that. I dig that. I you know, this world needs boondock saints and punishers. Well, so it's funny because the moral complexity of the movie, the part I'll tell you the moment it snapped for me where I was like, all right, I don't like this anymore was a great example is speaking of the Punisher, is the Punisher versus Daredevil and season two of Daredevil? Yeah, what's right? What's wrong? Do you take it too far? To take it far enough? That's that give and take is great. But there's a certain point where j Amy Fox's character Rice has found out like Clyde owns this building, this there's a secret behind here and uh Cole meenie they're about to break in. Coleeni's character says to him, like, what about his civil rights? And what seems like it's meant to be some cool delivery of a line, he just goes, fuck his civil rights and like, that's not You're the DA of a major city, dude, you can't that's not cool.

15:24 Like oh, I was like, yeah, no, that's awful. I don't like. I don't like when you're playing in this gray base and then you make a scenario that's so outlandish that even the good guys like fuck civil rights. Everybody, like, that's not what do scumbadge deserve civil rights? Andrew everybody does. That's the point, ah Darby does not deserve civil rights. The killer, the guy that rapes and murders is like or the guy that slaughters his family. As Clyde so aptly puts it, that guy doesn't deserve anything but what he gets and what he gets is a brutal torture. That was death. That was dark. I feel like, going back to that NC seventeen rating that scene, I was like, how much of this are they going to show? Because like the setup to it is dark again. It felt like, all of a sudden, you're dropped into a scene from Saw, not you know this this thriller. So I mean, obviously they do a lot of cutting away so you don't really see the real violence of it, but they talk about it a lot. One of my favorite moments for jar Butler is that scene the glee on his face when he pats Darby on the chest and he's like, your heart is beating so fast.

16:36 Mine too. It's like he's going to enjoy himself. But you know, I kind of feel like I would too if I was in his situation. There's a certain moment where yeah, he goes, oh, oh, I got something I wanted. I got something for you. He turns around and he wheels the mirror over and yeah, you're right. It's like he just remembered a gift. It's it's chilling, and yeah, I would like to think I would be a much better a person. But that opening scene, and you know, especially being a father myself, I'm about to give birth to my my own little girl. Uh yeah, I don't know. Andrew said it before you and I you were a shadowy reflection. Could only take an inch to budge you. You mentioned Cole Meanie. That guy is always a dick in pretty much everything except for this movie. And he's Star Treks. Oh oh yeah, Star Trek the next Generation. He is fantastic that But yeah, I like that he's he's not the typical Cole meaning that we get you know, you mentioned him. We got some great supporting players here. The one that comes to mind for me, I completely forgot they were in this film because it's halfway through the movie before we see her.

17:51 Viola Davis is the mayor of Philadelphia. Yeah. Yeah, that caught me off guard too. I was not. I was like, yeah, oh, I love it. I mean, we got Bruce McGill, who sadly dies by explosion in a vehicle again again you know, famously he gets it in the with Bruce Willis Daman Walliams. I love that movie. We're gonna cover that one on our nineteen ninety six series this year. James Buckley, I know you're listening right now, and don't worry. It's coming. So Leslie Bibb. I like her character Sarah. You know, Regina Hall plays missus Rice. We get some good talent, We got some real talent. Fkrie Gray knows how to draw a smart cast together. I think, yeah, I mean, I you know, we'll talk about his filmography later, but yeah, if you look at it, there's one thing you can say good or bad because his movies are a little all over the board for me, but he's always got a stellar cast. Let's talk a little bit about the background of this movie. Frank Darabant was in the director's chair first, but left the production due to one of our favorite phrases, creative differences.

18:59 He he had some of those with the producers. So they call they call up F. Gary Gray. I think, honestly, if Darabant was the director, we probably get the Blakely cut here, and it's a little bit more of Silence of the Lambs type atmosphere. Yeah. I mean, I've heard that Darabant can be kind of hard to work with, but I think it's because he's got a very singular vision. I would actually really like to see that movie especially. One of the thing that I've noticed is whenever there's the creative differences problem, whoever they bring on board is usually the producers bringing on board somebody that's gonna sort of been to their will a little bit. And I think you can see that in some of the set pieces of this movie. At times, I don't think this movie really knew what it wanted to be, okay, And I think that Darabant, with his vision, I wouldn't have let that happen. So I would have actually, I would have loved to see that. All Right, we might add to the Alternate Universe video store and picking up a copy for you. You talked about set pieces. So this is filmed on location in and around Philadelphia, including Laurel Hill Cemetery and Holmesburg Prison. I want to take a quick minute and talk about this prison. Yeah, So, I don't know if you look this prison up, Andrew. This prison, nicknamed the Terror Dome, is now closed, but was famous for controversial dermatological, pharmaceutical, and biochemical weapons research

20:33 projects which were tested on inmates. Fuck yeah. It was also it was also known for several major riots and the murders of several wardens. Wow. I mean esthetically, I you know, I was watching it, I was like, wow, this place is it doesn't have the hallmarks of most prisons you see in movies. So I did check that. I knew it was a real prison because it's it's got a real like grimy, dirty feel to it, really claustrophobic, really unpleasant to be in. Mm hmm. But yeah, I did not know that the grime and the dirt and the horror was real. And it was open while they were filming this, so they were moving prisoners to one side so they could shoot, and then they were leaving so that the prisoners could go back. It was like a lot like a like a chessboard moving pieces. According to Gerard Butler, and he said, you know, he's you're you're trying, You're filming your scene, and like you just in your peripheral you just have these eyes watching you because they're all like, what are they doing over there? Why are they here?

21:37 What are they saying? That's a wild choice for a movie like this, Like I could see that for a movie that's trying to get historical accuracy or like you know, biopic that's trying to really make it accurate. But that's a wild choice for this style movie. I think so too. And you know, I know, we gotta we got to get away from this prison. But uh yeah, any any any producers listening right now? Any any money, guys, I'm ready to see the Terror Dome biopic on this prison. So yeah, let's get that happening. Uh. You know you taught we we've we've mentioned the possible n C seventeen rating. It. Actually the scene in question, most notably was the one involving the character being stabbed to death with the state bone when he's having his dinner. Yeah, I get that that was violence. Yea. If you happen to own this on DVD or Blu ray, which I do, you get the NC seventeen version of that scene, and it is just a blood bath of a scene. I mean, it's it's it's graphically horrific. I'm kind of curious, you know.

22:48 I'm not one for the overly bloody, gory horror, like that's not my style. But now at this point I'm curious because in the regular version that scene was pretty violent anyway, Like when in the bed he is over basically warden, I need a shower, Yeah, I mean so I can't imagine how you up the ante. There one thing you wouldn't expect in a movie like this. Uh, I want to I want to call out some of the music choices. Uh it's that's the scene in question right before that that that inmate gets just slaughtered with that Uh that that that state bone his iPod. So he's listening. They're listening to h Imminutess front by the Who. I've always thought that song was cool. I've always you know, I dig it, But doing research on this film is when I realized why it's such a great song for this this movie. So the song's theme deals with people pretending to be something that they're not, and that's that's a specific nod to Clyde's motives. You know, he acts weak when he's actually strong.

23:52 He acts helpless when he's actually the smartest guy in the room. Even specifically in that scene he acted friendly and kind to cell mate, showing kindness to us something like. You know, it's like Jamie Fox's character says, well what about the you know we want they're talking about who's innocent who's not. He's like, well what about the cell mat He's like, what are you kidding me. The inmate in this prison was you're gonna say he's innocent, Noah, Andrew, Let's take a let's take a quick break, and when we get back, we got to talk about your choice for the pivotal scene in this film. We are back, Andrew, Let's talk about a pivotal scene in this movie. I'm not talking about the climactic moment. I'm not talking about what you saw on the trailer. I'm talking about a scene that you see it and you go, you know what, this is gonna matter for this character, or for this moment, or for this part of the movie. Do you have something like that, something like that coming into mind for you? Yeah? For me, you know it. As I said, this movie takes a lot of twists and turns and doesn't really reveal itself all at once. But the one that really revealed how this was gonna go wash when they were doing a bail hearing, which is probably about as boring as you can get in a movie. But Jamie Fox's character Rice is pleading with the judge to not grant him bail due to the violent nature of the crimes, and YadA, YadA, YadA, all the lawyers speak, and uh, Gerard Butler's character gives us surprisingly decent speech. I mean, he's

25:23 he's very well educated, and they show that he has law books in his home, and so you know, he says, you know, this is my first alleged offense. They have no real evidence. It's circumstantial. I'm a law abiding citizen, which is obviously you know the where they got the name of the film Love What to do with that in the movies? Yeah, And it's he does a really good job, and it's it's genuinely convincing, and the as the judge starts to agree and he just says, he like, thank you for proving my point. You're all that awful stuff. They know I did, and you were just about to let me go w read out the bill. That turn in his character and in that scene, because the first half of it was so believable, really set him up and his motivations and his intentions and how smart and how calculated he was and everything he said. I think it was just it was a great scene, and I think it really was important for his character and the movie following it.

26:18 That scene, his performance there is brilliant and explosive, and I remember the first time I watched this, I'm sitting there knowing that whatever Gerard Butler says is going to convince the judge to let him go. Yeah, So I'm like, I'm a step ahead, but it's f Gary Gray that's two steps ahead. Because that happens, and then Gerard Butler does this double take and make sure he stays in prison, and you're just like, what what just happened? Like? And this is before we know, like we've talked to the CIA informant, who's like, he's where he wants to be at all times if he's and you just you never saw that coming. Love. I love that twist. I love that moment. I'll tell you I'm gonna go with one a little more, a little more softer. I love the moment when Sarah confronts Nick about his decision to make the plea deal and whether or not it was the right decision. You know, is there more to what we do than just a high conviction rate? And I think Fox plays that scene well with just the expression because he doesn't answer her yep, but it's on his face. He he knows he's made a mistake and if he could go back, he'd redo it, right. Yeah, and that's my little scene. Yeah. And Leslie Bib didn't have a whole lot of screen time in this movie, but she made what she had work. Oh absolutely she did. Because the thing is, we don't see a lot of her, but we see enough to care about her. Yeah, and then that scene

27:48 that you're talking about, it pretty immediately precedes her very very gruesome death. I mean I say gruesome. It's a car bond. They all died that way. But you know she's trying to get out of the because she sees it coming. And then she looks up and sees Jamie Fox. Immediately following that scene, I mean, it's a gut punch because you know he's you can't help but think about what he's going on in his head during that scene. It's it's yeah, it's awful. We've seen people die by car bomb in Hollywood for decades, right. I think what makes her death more traumatic is the fact that she doesn't get in TURNI quy and explode. She's in the car and she knows, she's just watched like three other cars blow up, and she knows it's about to happen, and the look of pure terror on her face, you know, as she looks at Jamie Fox and there's just not there's no time, and he knows it. It's heart wrenching.

28:45 Like you said, it's a gut punch. It's a big gut punch. And it's the first moment in the movie where I'm like, I don't think I'm on board with Jard Butler anymore. Yeah. Yeah, it really is, because she's the first person that didn't at least have something coming. I mean, obviously you can get into the the nuance of whether or not the judge deserved it or things like that, but that's the first time you're like, Nope, she didn't deserve that one. That yea, that was not her. I'm not saying the judge deserved a small explosive device in her cell phone that took her head off, you know, but I read, you know, we read, we read stories every day where a judge is very lenient with someone that they never should have and you're like, you know, we don't wish harm on them, but we also like we wish like, why why are they in their position? You know, they should be removed?

29:32 Yeah, absolutely, you know, so you know, maybe and this judge was a little you know, like the the defense attorney, the judge, they're all like they're they they're degrees of slimy. I think we could say, but Leslie Bibbs' character had her whole had her whole life, her whole career. Every you know, she's she's innocent in this film, and I hate that that she's punished. Yeah, to use Clyde's terminology. Yeah, And my point earlier, I think as the movie progressed, they take away some of the gray from Clyde's motivations and his actions. And I liked playing in that space where it's like, Okay, I don't love it, but I kind of get it. And at a certain point it crosses past that, and I think that that really is the turning point where wait, when she blows up, it's like, Okay, no, he's just a straight up villain at this point. He Yeah, that's that's that's his villain reveal. As far as I'm concerned, Well, i'll tell you what.

30:26 This is not the first time that we have talked about f Gary Gray. Brad and I covered his film The Negotiator two thousand and eight with Samuel Jackson. That was such a great film. You know you mentioned we talked about how Gray gets these amazing casts together. That is absolutely no exception, Andrew. I know I've said a lot about this guy's filmography already. Please listeners, if you haven't heard our episode on f Gary Gray the Negotiator, go back check that one out. You will not be disappointed. Andrew. I don't think I'm gonna be disappointed by your quick takes. I got his filmography here in front of me, so I do want to hear good one.

31:10 I just do it. Yeah, he's a yeah because you mentioned before, like you, he's got some good ones and maybe he's got some not some good ones he's missed once or twice. All right. Well, as a reminder, he did get his start directing music videos. He has worked with Ice Cube, Tone Loke, Cypress Hill, Mary J. Blige, Usher, Heavy D and the Boys, Coolio, Barry White, Actually, oh TLC, and Outcast, Doctor Dre Queen Latifa. He has got just an all star resume when it comes to music video talent. It's his feature film debut in nineteen ninety five that I'm interested in hearing your take on talking about Friday. You know, I say he's got hits and misses. This is clearly a hit. I mean, Friday has to be absolute classic, but also tonally such a wild shift from like that to movies like this and The Negotiator. But I mean, what can be said about Friday It hasn't already been said. It's absolute classic. Everybody loves it. If you don't love it, watch it again because I think you missed it. Yeah, you missed something the first time. Yeah, it's it's iconic. It's it's one of those movies that speaks volumes about nineties culture. Yeah, and you're right, Like someone starting off with something like Friday, I would just assume, Okay, they're gonna be the next great comedy director. Yeah. I would never see them doing intense work. But he does. Because it's after Friday

32:40 nineteen ninety six, he does a film called Set It Off. Chapa never catch catch that one. I actually have not seen that one. I added it to my list though, as I was going through his filmography because his nineties work was great. I'm gonna tell you right now, you will not be disappointed in this one. For Inner City Women to Robert Bank in Los Angeles. But then they start turning on each other and when we're talking about four women, Jada Pinkett Smith, Queen Latifa, Vivica A. Fox, and Kimberly Elise. This is an excellent cast. That's awesome. Yeah, excellent cast. Yeah, I'm glad it's on your I'm glad it's on your watch list because I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. Because this is where we see Eth Gary Gray, the action director, the thriller director, come into play. He does a couple of music videos for Whitney Houston and Babyface, and then it's nineteen ninety eight when he does The Negotiator again.

33:38 Check out our episode on the Negotiator Andrew your take on the Negotiator. I mean, I love it. It's again, you know, especially with cop movies and vigilante movies and that kind of falls into that category as well. I love playing in that moral complexity and the things unfolding slowly as the movie progresses. And you know, this is before we all realized how creepy Kevin Spacey was. The relationship between him and Samuel L. Jackson, and it is just they're both really intelligent, they're both really strong, and they're both great actors. So it's a fantastic movie. I love that one. Do you watch that? You have to go to watch Shane. I don't care who you are. It's like, all right, let me get let me get a copy of Shane. I saw that movie like a dozen times before, the first time I ever watched Shane. So when I saw I was like, oh, okay, and I get it now, I see now you get Yeah. He spends the next couple years doing music videos. He's working with ice Cube, Babyface, Cyperci, Outcast. You mentioned people that are creepy. R Kelly. He does a video for R Kelly. But it's two thousand and three. He comes back with Vin Diesel in a Man a Part. I saw this one when it came out. I remembered thinking it was pretty good for a Vin Diesel film. I didn't think, you know, I don't really remember much about it. I don't recall it being particularly special, but I didn't hate it at the time. No, it's I mean, Timothy Oliphant, Lorenz Tate, you gotta you gotta like it.

35:10 Yeah, it's it's the rare occasion where Vin Diesel doesn't preach about family and well, he'll get around to that later he will, he will, he definitely will. Also two thousand and three, he gives us the Italian Job. Now there you go. That's again. I didn't know. I did not realize he had directed this this one when I was looking through this fimography surprised me because, I mean, I haven't seen this one and it's been a while, but I still remember it. It's it's very great visuals, great cast, fast paced, it is exciting. It's a great heist movie that the mini Cooper chase scene is like, even if the rest of you forget the rest of the movie, you can't forget that that was such a cool thing. I'll tell you little little plug here, you know, for for a different podcast. I love. I happen to love The Rewatchables with Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Finnassy. I don't know if they've ever done The Italian Job, but I would love to hear what those guys talk about, because I feel like The Italian Job is one of those show one of those movies where I don't care how how long it is into the movie or what channel it's on, I will stop what I'm doing and I will start watching it. It will it will take my attention from whatever I was doing, because it's it's one of those movies like it's just you can jump in anywhere and you're like, all right, I'm in, I'll stay, I'll hang with this. Yeah, it's it's thread that needle so nice

36:42 between. Like it's not a work of art. It's not a masterpiece. It's not winning any Oscars, but it's not like popcorn schlock that you're gonna forget about either. It's like, no, it's it really split the uprights in a way that a lot of movies try and fail to do. Yeah, a few more years of directing music videos for some amazing talent, and then he's back in two thousand and five with the follow up to Get Shorty, talking about the film called Be Cool. Yeah, this one was a miss for me. I remember being so excited to see this one, and it's just there was no magic to it whatsoever. It just was boring. Like there's stuff in it that's good, and there's scenes that aren't terrible, but overall it's if I hadn't watched it, I would be fine. Yeah.

37:28 When you think, okay, here's a sequel to Get Shorty, Travolta's back. This time. We got Uma Thurman, we got the Rock, we got Vince Vaughan, Andre three thousand, Cedric the Entertainer, Steven Tyler. Of all people, you kind of yeah, you kind of feel like, Okay, we're gonna get something special here, you know, Harvick. I tell Danny de Vito, James Woods are in this movie. And this was a bit of a miss. I'll be honest. It surprised me, you know, because, yeah, I think maybe I just I wanted to like it more. Maybe it was like one situation where this is the expectation was just too high. Maybe so maybe maybe we need to revisit, is what I'm wondering. I'm happy to give it a fresh, you know, a fresh viewing with open eyes. But yeah, I just I remember being very, very underwhelmed. And it wasn't even like I hated it. It was just boring. I'm gonna I'm going to give it that Brad Cozo second chance Sunday, one of these one of these days. Give it a shot, give it a shot. We've been talking about two thousand and nine's law abiding citizen. I do want to talk about too, you know, it takes several years off, comes back, and he comes back strong in twenty fifteen with his film, his biopic Straight out of Compton. Yeah, I mean, this is as far as I'm concerned, Like this is what makes f Gary Gray a director worth really discussing, Like this is his his home run. It's it's amazing. And you know, we've talked a lot about all the music videos he's directed and the people he's worked with, and this is a movie about them, and he has a good relationship with them,

39:01 and you know, all these other movies, the cast was these all stars. You know, he's working with these greats. In this he got a lot of unknowns, but they were just he knocked every single one out of the park, a lot of them, you know, with their personal relationships with the source material. It was just amazing. I loved it and it did for me a lot of what Friday did in a very different way, which is to say, like I saw Friday when I was pretty young. Yeah, young enough that I didn't even get most of the jokes probably, but it was an introduction to like black culture that I, a white kid in Ohio, just had no frame of reference for. And I think that This did that as well, because you know, I'm familiar with that music because I love that music, but culturally like that was just another world for me. So to be able to see it by people who care about it and love it and lived it, it was just so cool. I'll tell you something I love about this film is the performances. And I'm talking specifically about Osha Jackson. Yeah, who is ice who is in fact ice Cube's son. He's playing ice Cube. The whole time I'm watching this, I I just see ies, just see Cube. I do not see anything else, anyone else. And Osha Jackson has come a long way. He has become an outstanding actor as well. Yeah, I remember when they cast that, because I remember like hearing about this and hearing that they had cast him to play I was like, well, I mean, I guess that's kind of cool. He'll look like him and you know, he knows him and stuff. But then watching him in that, he's he's fantastic. And I

40:35 mean, I like ice Cube. I've never considered him a stellar actor. He's fun. He's in some good movies that I very much like, but I've never been like, oh, that's a that's a real actor. So to see his son have carry that much weight and talent like I was, that was really cool. I'll tell you, if you want to see him really do something awesome, watch a Jar Butler movie called Den of Thieves, which is an excellent Uh. It's almost like, if I'll say this, if you like heat, then by default you're gonna like Tenneth Thieves. Okay, if you have, if you haven't, if you haven't seen it, you'll watch it and you'll understand what I'm saying. He's not. He's not the only one, though. I'll tell you one of the standout performances in last year's Last Woyage of the Demeter. Remember that that horror film about the Dracula's Uh. I didn't see it, but it looks cool. Oh, it's so good. I wish you would have seen it. That it needed to be seen. I my prediction. It's I know. It didn't make a lot of money. It was released at the wrong time. You can't put out a horror film about Dracula in the summer. You just can't.

41:40 Yeah, it was a wild choice. But uh. One of the leads in the film, man named Corey Hawkins, is just stellar to watch and he you've seen him obviously because he played doctor Dre in straight out Oh gotcha? So yeah, he was great too, And I mean, yeah, I think Dre is the one that I've seen the most as himself, you know what i mean. Like, yeah, he's obviously a very public figure now or I'm not very public. He's pretty reserved, but I don't know, I really like I felt like that was a young Dre. Yeah, it was such a good movie. Speaking of is such good movies, Let's go to twenty seventeen. I think it's the eighth in the franchise. I had to check, but I'm pretty sure it's the eighth. It's the Fate.

42:31 Yeah, it's f eight, like it's eight. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's so wild to go from straight out of Compton to this. Just the weirdest career path for this guy. Yeah. I mean he's working with Dwayne Johnson again. Yeah, you know you got Jason Statham, which that the Hobbs and Shaw movie. Look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna come clean right now. Do I own all the Fast and Furious movies? Yes? I have. I have this collector's edition. It's actually it's actually a tire that holds all the discs. It's so cool. You know, I'm a sucker for those those types of box sets. But uh, I love the the uh, the Hobbs and Shaw movie that they did in between. I actually have not seen that one. You'd like it, you know, really lessen uh because it seems like they made Idris Elba like a super soldier and that was just I mean, it's it's a dumb popcorn movie. If you just want to watch muscles up guys, you know, fight and blow things up and fight smorts like watch Predator. Well, yeah, I'm not gonna you know, I'm not gonna debate that that's that's not a bad choice either. But uh yeah, the eighth Fast and Furious movie, this is the one where Dom kind of goes rogue. I think he I think this if I remember right, this is the one where Charlie's throne is kind of controlling him, like making him turn against his fam, his his friends and full jobs. And yeah, I think there was like a

44:01 pitch meeting at some point with the Fast and the Furious franchise and they were like, I don't think it counts as jumping the shark if you never come back down, like if you just keep going up. You know, it's and I respect it, Like I'm not knocking it at all. I you know, if I were a director and somebody offered me one, I'd be like, hell, yeah, I'm in for sure, Like, yeah, it seems like a fun playground to play in. You know what if I yeah, they're fun. Just yeah, they're not going to win. Yeah, there's no Academy Awards being being given for those, but they're fun movies or some of the movies. That's the kind of movie that if they if they gave somebody in it a razzie, I feel like they would show up to accept it, you know what I mean, with a big grin on their face. Yeah, speaking of razzies, let's go to twenty nineteen talk about Men in Black International. Oh, that was a that was the real misstep. I think that he's done. Yeah, that's probably the bottom if I had to pick a low point, how though, I mean, by all accounts, this one should be a home run because you've got you've got some big names from the MCU, you know, Tessa Thompson, Chris Hemsworth, come on, and Jeannie how does how does it miss? I mean, yeah, it's a proven franchise. It's We've had three very successful men in black films. I don't know what happened. I to be honest, I've watched it once. I was drinking at the time. I didn't really

45:35 and afterwards I was like, I'm never really going to do this one again because like it was whatever. So I don't really I can't sit here and put my finger on exactly what didn't work about it. It just had no like real heart or character the way that you know Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones brought to it, and it just it felt needless, like it would be fine if it was an episode of a TV show, but not a standalone like franchise darting or franchise rebooting, you know peace. So it wasn't terrible, it wasn't, but it's just it was needless for lack of Okay, let's talk about his most recent film. This one just came out talking about his Netflix original movie called Lift. This one stars Kevin Hart and I hope I'm probably gonna just do terrible pronouncing this name, but I want to say, uh, Googu batar raw playing female lead. Yeah, and I mean she's great talking. All his casts are great, but she's fresh off of Loki, and I loved her in that she wasn't Loki. Now I'm looking at I just pulled up her her credits. Yeah, I remember her.

46:51 Yeah, So this one comes out. It just came out January twelfth on Netflix, follows a master thief and his Interpol agent ex girlfriend who team up to steal five hundred million in gold bullion being transported on an A three eighty passenger flight. You got Vincent Dinofrio, Sam Worthington, Billy Magison. Yeah, I love Billy Maguson. I think he is super underrated, especially for his comedy. You know, even movies that I've seen him in were the movie itself wasn't particularly like Stellar, like game Night. I love Game Night. He was Game Night. He was one of the princes in Disney's like Live Action Into the Woods, Okay, which you know, I can list all the reasons I did not like their adaptation, but he was fantastic, and he and Chris Pine played prince brothers that are just so over the top fantastic. So I'll probably give this one a shot. I'm not the biggest Kevin Hart guy. Kevin Heart's not the biggest Kevin Hart guy. I couldn't resist. Yeah, no, I was had to be done. But yeah, yeah, it's f Gary Gray. Like I said, even his bad stuff's usually at least entertaining. And uh, I love a good heist movie. He's got that, he's got that fate of the furious energy.

48:09 He knows how to do it, ridiculous, over the top, plain stunts. So he did an Italian job. He knows how to do what. He knows how to do a heist. So exactly, let's give it a shot. Let's talk about more importantly, let's talk about what's next for f Gary Gray. He's had two projects and one I'm interested in one I am breaking out. I can't wait to see it. Okay, all right, So first off, he's in pre production on a film called Muscle starring Vin Diesel. Okay, I love. I would love to tell you what it's about, but all all information is under wraps. You know. Basically, we've got a title, we've got a we got an actor, and we got a director. Don't that's enough. That's enough for me to at least pay attention, you know, I'll pay attention, but I hope you're gonna pay attention to this one because he's also in development on a movie called Mask Mobile Armored Strike Command. I'm talking about the nineteen eighty five cartoon where you had the good guy's Mask versus the bad guy's Venom. Yeah. I would say that that feels like that was made for you, Jeff. Like somebody was like, what what, what does Jeff Johnson want to see? I feel like, let's let's dig through. Please. When you think about the fact that he is right at home in a franchise as absurd as the Fast and Furious franchise, he could make Mask very believable. And I'm super stoked

49:44 about this because a while a while ago, they did confirm that Mask the You know, those characters exist in the world of G I. Joe. They're basically an offshoot of G I. Joe as Venom Venom. Venom was an offshoot of Cobra, so Mask was created to combat that. More importantly, this film is aiming to be part of a shared universe with G I. Joe, the Transformers, and micro Knouts. I didn't know about micronts. I knew about the Transformers, g I Joe Crossover because they tease that, and so as soon as you said that, I was like, they're they're doing an art the Hasbro's going for it. Hasbro's going for it, And I read that in my head a most exploded eight year old Jeff is just freaking out. So I'm trying to I'm trying to see here if they have a cast list for that one. I can't find anything. But like I said, he's nothing yet, It's gonna be good. That's that's the guy knows how to put the cast together. The cast is gonna be the vehicles, you know, because for anyone that didn't grow up watching this cartoon, if anyone's never any for anyone that never heard of MASK, the Mobile Armored Strike Command, the whole gimmick was they drove vehicles that transformed into other vehicles. So like Matt Tracker like his his uh. I want to say, it was like a trans am if I remember right, I could be wrong, but it was either transam or camarra, but it turned it.

51:09 It basically transformed in like to a jet. And they all wore these masks that kind of like, uh, I don't want to say, gave them superpowers, but it gave them like super intel and you know, I don't know, you know, this is just gonna They're just gonna make them transformers but cars, right Like, That's that's what Mask was. That's what we want, Okay, Mask Mask Basically someone said, what if we took G I Joe and turned it into Transformers and and someone said, no, We've already got that. Transformers fight to the septicons and G I Joe fights cover Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. One if these guys are fighting and they just have cars and vehicles that turn into other cars vehicles, Okay, I'm in. I'm still. Yeah, they're making this movie for you, Jeff. They are. They're making this one right for me. F Gary Gray, please make haste. I will say, like, I hope this one's coming out soon. Andrew, let's talk final your final thoughts on Law Abiding Citizen. Do you recommend this one?

52:17 Yeah? I mean it's it's got some fun twists and turns. I do. I don't think it's f. Gray Gray's best work. And honestly, I think the biggest thing is I think it could it had the right parts to be a truly great movie and it settled with being a good movie, and so you know, I'll give it a you know, a six out of ten. All right, Hey, that's I expected. I actually expect you to come in a little under that. So this makes me happy because because I highly recommend this one if you're gonna if you're gonna see it, if you're gonna have it the DVD, the Blue Ray. Always go physical media, but in this case, there's some fun extras that include interviews with real prosecutors that kind of lay out like the the felony murder rule and some of the other things where you're like, that would never happen in real life.

53:06 Well, technically it does happen in real life. And they got some cool moments with some prosecutors that kind of break down the scene key scenes and explain why Jimmy Fox does what he does or why he doesn't do what he doesn't do. It's also some some cool behind the scenes material, some cool visual effects stuff. I strongly recommend the the the DVD and or Blu Ray. Yeah, I would absolutely watch that. That sounds almost as interesting as the movie. I want to hear about why why is the DA of Philadelphia interrogating this guy. Okay, you know, lawyer? Where you where'd you see this one? Andrew? I got it on Prime? Okay, streaming on Prime. Yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't quite willing to go all in on the DVD. Don't get me wrong. I like my collection, but as I said, six out of ten, you know what I mean?

53:54 Well, listeners, what do you think of law abiding citizen? Let us know on social media Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, You can check out a Film by a Podcast dot com for film and TV articles and our entire library, which is streaming free. You can write to us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some A film by a swag Andrew always a pleasure, sir. I'm already looking forward to the next time we're discussing a movie. Yeah, next time, let's not discuss one where the kid gets kidnapped killed right out of the gate. I'm a new parent. This stuff kills me. Yeah, you know what my apologies I do think about that. I just thought this is you know, we're talking good, conquering, evil, righteous, prospering, the wicked, suffering to quote Clyde Shelton, and I thought, who do I sometimes differ with an opinion when it comes to good and evil and the moral compass of Vigilanti.

55:02 So I was like, it's gotta be Blakely. I love it. I'll always be here for that. Thank you. Our new Star Trek theme series, Phasers Set to Stun, has a few episodes out already. Wayne, David and Scott are continuing their conversation about Star Trek the next generation and offering their picks for the top ten episodes you don't want to miss each season. This Friday, our latest limited series, nineteen ninety six will return with our good friend Jason Colvin from the Shirley You Can't Be Serious Podcast. It's always a fun time with Jason visits, and we've got plenty to say about the nutty Professor. And next time on a Film Buy, we'll discuss Tupac Shakor's film debut in Ernest Dickerson's directorial debut, a film called Juice. Thanks for listening to speaking, the guest get there riding, the girl said speaking a guest