George Lucas - THX 1138

0:00 I'm gonna throw some titles at you, all right, and and when you get the theme, you just you just you just let me know, okay, all right? Children of Men, the Matrix, a clockwork, Orange, Wally Blade. Runners, yeah, or at least near future sci. Fi, you know, dystopian future, right if? Hell yeah? Okay, somebody ask it if I didn't say the title already? Do you do you have a go to a favorite dystopian future type movie. It's a tough I mean, I love the genre, so it's hard to say it, but you you actually said it right out of the gate. Children of Men is one of my one of my favorites sta all time, not even just in that genre, just period.

0:45 I should know that because a long time ago you were I remember you called me up and be like, hey man, what are you guys gonna do? Children of Men? And I had never even seen it. I was like that, I'll look at it, and then I ended up loving. It, and we did. We did an episode a couple of seasons ago on that, so we have you to thank it for that one. As I recall, you're welcome. Well, on that note, I do want to talk about another dystopian future film. So let's talk about a film by George Lucas, his nineteen seventy one underrated dystopian sci fi film THX one one three eight. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Andrew Blakeley, and this.

1:56 Is a film by podcast. Let me begin by saying thank you, not only to you Andrew, but to Amber Lewis. I took a little vacation and you guys stepped in. Last couple of weeks, Amber had a great episode with our. Friend def Dave. They talked about the fortieth anniversary of the Tom Sellick dystopian future classic Runaway. And then our friend Chuck Bryan from Cinematic Flashback podcast stop by you Guys had an excellent conversation about a film called Sunshine Danny Boyle film. Yeah, also futurists near Future. I wouldn't say ystopian, maybe more apocalyptic. But we're on a really good sci fi kick right now. I'm loving it.

2:42 We're on a Yeah, we're in a really dark sci fi kick lately kick kicking it off to kick it off December with another, yet another one. But I have a feeling we're gonna we're gonna make a shift towards some other more appropriate films here soon enough. And you know, before we get going, I gotta say thank you to two other gentlemen new to our Patreon, filmmaker Nile Garcia, who we had the privilege of talking about his upcoming horror Christmas horror themed film Catnip not too long ago. Nile liked what he was hearing and he said, I'm gonna check out your Patreon as well, so we thank you for that. And longtime listener of the show, Kevin Davis, has just jumped into the world of Patreon.

3:31 So Kevin, welcome to our Patreon. I promise you were gonna love the stuff we got going on over there. Last month, we just had a fairly large video episode with our friend def Dave celebrating the fortieth anniversary of yet another nineteen eighty four film, Read Dawn. That one was a lot of fun. So Dave, if you're listening, I can't thank you enough for your participation in that. Andrew, you are the go to guy on our Patreon for the for two series. So I know we've got some fun stuff for this month planned as well. I'm looking forward to it. Well, let's talk about THHX eleven thirty eight Andrew For the people out there that maybe have not seen this film, because up until recently I was one of them. Can you tell us a little bit about this film?

4:18 What you know? You got a synopsis for us. In the future, mankind lives in vast underground cities, and free will is outlawed by means of mandatory medication that controls human emotion. But when thchx one one three eight and lu H three four one seven stop taking their meds, they wake up to the bleak reality of their own existence and fall in love with each other in the process. But love is also illegal in the sorwelly and dystopia, and the act of making love has made both of them outlaws on the run from an army of robotic police. A world where consumption is key, free thought, sexual activity is outlawed. It does not get much more dystopian in this man.

5:02 Yeah, it's uh, it's pretty dark. You know there's a we You mentioned some other great dystopias uh in film. I think so many of them owe credit to this movie. Uh, and it gets referenced all the time. I tried to make a list of all the times you know, you see one one three eight in movies or reference to books or TV shows, and it got overwhelming. There's too many because this is a foundation of dystopia that everything else is built on. Well, it's all over the Star Wars universe. Yeah, and you know, whether it's dialogue or it's it's signage. Prisoner transfer from cell block one one three eight. There you go. Yeah.

5:43 I also I love he does it in almost everyone knows movies in uh Raiders on the submarine. As he's going there's go down. You hear the voice say, heints, heint that. I ah, just Germany for one one three eight. Yeah. The way this film opens, first off, it's a little little strange because we get this this teaser for Buck Rogers in the twenty fifth century. Yeah. I did some digging because I'm watching the whole time I'm watching the movie, I'm like, why why did that happen? I did? I did a little, did a little homework for you. So he included the trailer to Tragedy on Saturn, chapter two of Buck Rogers, which was from.

6:23 Nineteen thirty nine. He attempted he wanted to draw an ironic contrast between the swashbuckling Rogers in the twenty fifth century and the title character in his Bleak science fiction debut because each was quote, just an ordinary normal human being who keeps his wits about him. He also saw it as an homage to the kinds of science fiction stories he loved growing up. This is his directorial film debut, and I liked that right out the gates. He's showing love to the movies that made him fall in love with movies. Yeah, and I mean, obviously, you know, we know now we can see that in his later work. Is He Star Words to See Indiana Jones, et cetera. It's very clear that Buck Rogers' mentality infiltrated a lot of his work.

7:07 But this is a very different sci fi than what we get from him later in his career. It's this you can tell it's a directorial debut because it definitely has a lot of what I would call film school vibes, kind of thing you expect a student to make. Not in a bad way. I think it does a great job, but it's a very very different film than we're used to from Lucas. Yeah, this feels very to your point, it is, it does feel like a student film. In a sense, it's it's very avant garde. It's it's taken chances with with some of the camera setups, with some of the the dialogue. It's just it's it's out there. It's a little yeah. But it's like the audio too. This is something that I remember because I first saw this years ago. It had been mentioned when I was in a film class, and I was like, you know, I've never seen it.

7:53 It's Lucas, I'll check it out. So I was reading a lot about it years ago, and he was very actively making sure that the dialogue or the sound didn't match with what we're watching on screen, which was a homage to some Canadian filmmakers that he liked. He liked the avant garde nature of it, and he wanted to emulate that. And I think that's the thing that we see now is a very common film like trope. It's kind of a technique of you know, leading you into something. But he was really just playing around with it and wanted to be avant garde intentionally. Whether he cribbed this or he created this. I gotta tell you, I love the reverse title sequence scroll he does at the beginning whereas it's you know, we're accustomed to seeing our titles kind of come from the you know, you know, start at the top and work their way down. It's coming from the bottom of the of the film and scrolling upward.

8:44 But yeah, it's weird. It's like you're watching it backwards. Yeah, it's jarring. There's a lot of this movie that's very jarring, kind of puts you off kilter in it. It kind of puts you off kilter or in a state of unease. I feel like he very actively trying to keep you feeling uncomfortable in this world. I'm feeling uncomfortable the entire time because these these these narrative voiceovers in that calm tone where it's consumption is being standardized. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's creepy. It's so creepy. So yeah, there's there's even times where people are watching clearly everybody's being watched at all times. They're watching thhx uh and just very casually, very emotionlessly discussing what's happening on screen. And that's all we hear. We don't we don't hear any of the drama unfolding with Robert Duval and it creates this very weird, emotionless attached thing that is really unsettling.

9:42 I'll tell you what's unsettling. And I know, I know we're kind of jumping ahead to to some of the scenes, but I got to bring it up. Like he's at work and again with these these uh, these narrative voices that are just saying terrible things, but just make can you feel like everything's okay? I love the you know, there's an accident on one of the other levels where he's working that you know he wor he works in this this production facility that create the the robotic police force, right, and there's a radioactive explosion in one of the levels, and meanwhile they're just like, you know, stay at your post.

10:25 The accident is being contained. Stay at your post, you know. And then the guy at the end of the day. You know, it's all about it's like, oh, we've killed the two hundred something people have died in that department, only hired than something I've died in your department. Good for you, Like, yeah, I had I had to write it down. Andrew. The guy on the on the overhead speaker says, accident in red sector L fourteen do not abandon your post. That accident destroyed another sixty three. Personnel, giving them two hundred and forty two to our one hundred and ninety five. Keep up the good work and prevent accidents. They're giving them this like they're. Giving this like positive speech on hey, keep up our safety because they're killing a lot more people over there.

11:11 It's it's nuts, man, It's absolutely nuts. Yeah. It's a there's so many things that they do too to like kind of put you in the state where like when he's going to what you would I guess call therapy, it's just a voice repeating the tell me more, could you be more specific, while there's a picture of Jesus in front of them. Yeah, And it's just generic therapy language. It's so there's some familiarity to it, and that kind of makes it worse somehow. Yeah, they've got these confessionals, and yeah, he's in there. He's trying to like talk about what's what's really bothering him, and and it's just like uh huh, yes, tell me more.

11:54 And it ends with work hard, increased productivity, prevent accidents. That's that's the confessional's outgoing message. This place sucks I'm sorry. Say what you will about George Lucas, though he's not one for subtlety in his in his symbolism or his references. A lot of this, you know, when when the police ask are you now or have you ever been? Or you know, the Jesus imagery, it's it's not subtle. There's even a part where th HX sits down after a long day of work and he's trying to watch TV and he's watching essentially holographic porn and it's dued. It's it's wild to watch because it starts with him watching this it's clearly a black woman with like African music and dancing, which feels very out of place in this sterile, homogenized Christian environment. And then as soon as he's done with that, he switches over to just watching a police officer just beat a man on the ground, just repetitively, and he smiles. He's like, cool, this is what I'm down for.

12:57 Okay, so let's let's let's we're like, we can't glaze over this one because this is another one. This is where I was like, holy shit, what what is this movie? This is nineteen seventy one and this is George Lucas like coming right out of school. So let's just set this up because because uh, Robert Duvall's character THX eleven thirty eight, he comes home from work pretty much ignored, like he has a roommate, which. Is like a mate so to speak. I don't I don't really understand if you're supposed to just be a roommate or if there's supposed. To be more to it. It's it feels like you're just supposed to be roommates. But but there's a lot left undefined in this. Yeah yeah, l l Uh is there and he kind of ignores her. He goes right, typical, typical guy, like.

13:43 Just I can get to the TV. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta unwind. It's been a long day at work. But he's watching this weird holographic like I guess space age porn. And then this this masturbatory device comes down. And starts just taking care of him like a flight like what are we doing here? Like? And then she comes in and he turns it off. It's like there's like the violence channel where the cop just beats the guy senseless, and then there's a comedy channel. It's it's kind of weird because this is nineteen seventy one, this is this is before cable, before we had streaming options in like specific channel. So it's like Lucas is creating the streaming that we're that we're living in twenty twenty four with now visionary.

14:26 I guess you could say. Yeah, that's a word for it. It's an unsettling scene, but yes, very very prescient. I guess. Yeah. Hey, anytime you're watching Robert Duvall enjoy himself, that's that's a scene that's gonna be hard to watch. It's yeah, And he's so good in this movie. I want to talk with him for a second because. He's let's let's talk. Yeah, let's go back to cast Let's Robert Duvall as th HX eleven thirty eight. Tell me your thoughts. It's it's wild because first off, he's so young, you know what I mean. I mean, I guess he's not. He's probably forty. But I'm used to seeing super old Robert duval, so it's crazy to see him like this, and with the shaved head and everything. It's hard to say he does a great job simply because the character is emotionless for about three quarters of the movie, like by definition, but I really like the way that he kind of plays the madness. You see a lot of what's going on inside him as he's trying to sort this out. Even though from a dialogue standpoint, they never really explain what's going on with him. You kind to see him processing, and I love that. I think it takes a lot of talent, especially in such a strange film.

15:32 Well, for him to be so emotionless, so blank, so cold, and then kind of have a breakdown as he's off his meds. I think you're absolutely right he's doing He's doing some amazing work here if we're being honest. Yeah, I mean he carries it because again, this movie doesn't hold your hand with anything. It doesn't explain what's going on. There's not a lot of dialogue to really give you much, and he really doesn't talk a lot of the movie, or if he does, it's in you know, short sentences, so a lot of what he's carrying is just through facial expression and body language, and he's he keeps you engaged. And to clarify, we're talking about the director's cut that George Lucas does yes, like what was it two thousand and four, two thousand and eight something.

16:19 Yes, Yeah, there's three versions of this movie. The first one the one that was released in theaters in seventy one. You can't actually find anywhere I've tried. There was a re release after, you know, Lucas kind of became big with Star Wars, where he added a couple of scenes. Seems like there wasn't a whole lot of changes. Again I can't confirm, but then yeah, he re released it in two thousand and four, updated a lot of the graphics, extended some scenes. Generally regarded as a pretty good version. That's the one I've always watched. That's the one I have the special edition copy of. So well, you're talking George Lucas. So the idea that you're going to find an earlier version of this film, you're not, because you know, you and I before we we meant to do this one, you said, hey, I've got the director's cut?

17:04 Is that the one you're watching? And I was like, I'll see if I can find it. And the only one that you can find, whether you're trying to rent it or stream it, it's like the one I found on Prime is called THHX eleven thirty eight. The George Lucas Director's cut is the official wording that they use. So that's the one that I have the DVD of, and I mean it's good. I like it. It's not it doesn't have the same hallmarks of when he remastered the you Know a New Hope, And there's no ridiculous terrible CGI version of you know a fat slug in there or anything like that. Here's the situation. I think it's safe to say because this last one, this the current one that's available, is the one where he just he was he's kind of cleaning up the CGI.

17:47 He's adding some stuff here and there. It's probably a better movie, that's what. That's why I'm looking at it. And they they were able to remaster it really, really well. It looks beautiful for a movie shot at seventy one. It looks so crisp to be. Shot, to be shot back then on a on a nothing budget. I think it's fantastic. Speaking of fantastic, there are not too many actresses in nineteen seventy one that are going to do a low budget movie where they're required to shave their head yep. So Maggie mcooney playing l U h or Low as it is in the movie. I feel like maybe she's shooting all her scenes in like one day, like.

18:35 She's so scarious. Well, you know, we don't see a whole lot of her. And I get, you know, I get what happens to her. You know, she's she's quote unquote consumed. You know, we understand what that means in this movie. But like you said, there's not a lot of exposition dump on us, which I'm not complaining about, but a little might might have been nice. Like, like my question is, you know, let's let's talk about love. She you know, she's the one that is that is secretly taking him off his meds so that he can feel an emotional response, he can have desires, you know, and he can follow her lead into the whole sexual into the sectional way. Yeah, thank you, the sexual awakening that he's that he's gonna he's gonna come to. But how does she get off her meds? And why did she think it was okay to take him off his It's it's illegal, it's it's a crime to not be medicated.

19:35 Yeah, and her taking him off was a it was a bold swing. I don't know, you don't get a lot of her character. Like you said, she's not in it for long, and we don't really get a lot of backstory. I think she's narratively obviously we see the need for her, but her character doesn't have any resolution. We don't get much from it. And I think that that is, you know, I'm a young college graduate, George Lucas trying to be experimental. You know, I've got my friend Francis Ford Coppolas, got this new you know thing that's gonna whatever movie. I want this new film company. So I think he's really trying to mess with narrative structure and kind of you know, Oh, they're gonna have a love story, they're gonna escape together. Nope, never mind, you know, she she's gone. Yeah, so yeah, she does get kind of done dirty. But I think that, you know, it's interesting. I don't love it, but it's interesting.

20:25 Well, so then let's let's talk about another third, our third character in this one. Donald pleasants playing sen Yeah, okay, again, if we're all medicated, because he's he's a little out there, he's he's yeah, if if everyone if everyone is walking around at a four he's clearly at like an eleven, he's animated. He's like, hey, let's be I'm gonna cheat the system and we're gonna be my our new roommate. And is so funny, like he's such a good choice for this because he's always a little off in the best way. But I think, you know, to your point of you know him also not being medicated. It's sort of a as Jeff Goldbloom would say, life found a way.

21:13 You know, it's you know, it doesn't matter how much they're trying to control these people. We're still humans and we're still going to have anomalies, we're still going to break free, We're still going to find something. And I think that that's what that is is he's a little crazy, he's a little off, and so he doesn't fit in that normal role. Think think about how horrified you are if you're THHX and you have just kind of experienced this whole new like I've woke up, I'm not I'm I'm not in the matrix anymore. And my roommate wants to just have sex all the time. And then Donald Pleasant shows up and says, hey, I'm gonna get rid of her. And I'm gonna get us reassigned. You could be my new roommate and we're gonna that's horrifying to me. I don't want to be.

21:53 Hey, doctor Loomis, I don't want to be your roommate. Now I've got the hot girl, you know. He he gives hardcore cult leader vibes, but like he's not good at. It though, you know, because you because you just said that, I will drop this, uh fun fact here for you. We've got all We've got a large cast of extras just walking around with shaved heads. And again, not many people are willing to do that for like nothing, or like a couple bucks in a sandwich. But there's this, uh, there's just like this crisis center or you know, rehabilitation center nearby where they're shooting where part of it is that you have to shave your head to get your treatment.

22:37 I'm not making this up, but man, what's it called? It was, uh, it's Sinos or signus or something. But all these all these extras are coming by from this this rehabilitation center, and later on in life, this rehabilitation center becomes like one of the prolific cults in America, like dangerous cults. Yeah. So yeah, the second you started much shaped heads after Colts, I wish you could have seen my face just oh no, I don't ye. As soon as you dropped Cult Leader, I was like, oh wait that point of order. A lot of a lot of a lot of cult people. Were in this film. So but more maybe maybe more on that later. We'll take a quick break, and when we get back, I do want to talk a little bit about this film's background and the music. Welcome back, Andrew Blakeley and myself, Jeff Johnson talking about George Lucas's directorial debut THHX eleven thirty eight. Andrew, I know you mentioned Coppola already, but this is the first film for Francis fort Coplo's American Zootrope film company.

23:45 Coppola acts as his. Mentor and executive producer on this one, you know, and I dig the fact that Lucas has said about their their relationship probably the most important relationship he's ever had in his life. Yeah, it seems like that would be a real cool time to be sort of a you know, to go back in time and be a fly on the wall, because not only is Lucas learning. Uh. Scorsese also spend a lot of time there working with them. There's a lot of great directors end up working with American zoetrope. And it would have been really cool to just see these artists that were young and kind of being experimental. Fantastic. Yeah, late sixties, early seventies, this is the new Hollywood movement.

24:26 You got Oliver Stone and Steven Spielberg. All these guys are like, they're they're new, They're they're new on the scene, they're coming up, and they're they're kind of banded together to help each other get their films made. I love it. This amazing time uh in Hollywood's history, yep, Andrew The film gets its name from George's San Francisco phone number while he was in college. Uh eight four nine one one three eight, which if you're looking at the eight four nine that that will spell out THHX. The short film. That he did and later this movie were adapted from a one and a half page outline called Breakout, which was written by a fellow US student, Matthew Robbins, all about a man escaping an underground dystopian society. Now, Andrew, I said the name Matthew Robbins, you didn't exactly perk up.

25:21 It's a director we might have to. Talk about sometime, maybe next season. This is the guy that directed Corvette Summer in nineteen seventy eight with Mark Hamill, Dragon Slayer in nineteen eighty one, The Legend of Billy Jean in nineteen eighty five, and a family Favorite Batteries not included in nineteen eighty seven. Okay again, you talk. About all these guys are hanging out together, they're coming up, they're coming up together. And so if you're wondering where THHX eleven thirty eight came from, the guy that directed Dragon Slayer is responsible. I would not have called that. Yeah. Now, this one, I had to add this because it's not exactly a fact, but it's a it's a it's an interesting theory. Uh.

26:01 The co writer on this Walter merch He stated that although Lucas never explained the origins of the character's names, he believes that the names th HX, love and sin are homonyms for sex, love and sin, which is kind of like the theme of this film, like the three things that are driving this this because it's actually when. He comes home she doesn't call out th HX is that you? She calls him theex yep. So very interesting. Yeah, yeah, and sen very much. I remember watching this, I thought his name was Sin for a while. Yeah, because you know, it sounds so similar.

26:46 Yeah, and that's that's just it. Like Lucas has never never gone on the record about it, but I think it's an interesting theory. I'm going with it. Lucas is is not known for subtlety, but he also he does put a lot. He puts thought into every single thing, even even background details. You know, we mentioned earlier that every one of his movies mentions TX one one, three, eight because every detail like he does on purpose. So I doubt something like that happens on accident. Yeah, I'm with you. I think we got to talk about this film score by Leila Schiffrin. It's it's bizarre, but in a good ways. Yeah, it's very experimental. And one of the things I really like about this movie is how often there is no score. You know, they play a lot with sound, you know, when they're in for lack of a better word, we'll call it the white room, very echoey, or there's you hear rumblings in the background and things like that.

27:44 So they're playing with a lot of these sounds, and I think it makes when there is a score, it makes it much more impactful. As a result, I actually enjoyed it. Kind of gives me tron vibes in a way. But I'm happy to say we do have our resident film score. Historian Wayne White died. I told him we were doing THHX eleven thirty eight. He's like, oh, Schiffrin, I could I could say a few things about Schiffern. I was like, well, we'd love to have it, so Wayne, take it away. George Lucas's early film THHX eleven thirty eight is one of those films that I saw much later, sometime around two thousand and five. I've always known about it, but I never got around to seeing the film. I bought the soundtrack to this film solely on the merit of its composer, Leyla Scheffrin. Schaeffrin is no stranger to film and TV scoring. He scored many great and successful films like Cool Hand, Luke Bullet, Entered The Dragon, Rush Hour, and if you want to hear me rave on about how much I love his film work, you can listen to a film by his podcast for the Amityville Horror that was released recently. But now let's take a look at this. At Laila's score to THHS one one three eight, It's an unusual film, so Leila decided to give it a very unusual, almost avant garde style, so far different from anything he had delivered before, and because of that it works so well in this film. There's so much

29:18 to pick out from the score. Leila uses many different styles and moods of music, from symphonic to electronic, droning, choir to jazz. It seems like every minute of this is an incredible listening experience. As I said before, this is very different from anything he had done before. Unlike most composers at the time such as John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith and Alfred Newman, he wasn't writing the music to tell the story. He was letting the visuals do the job and his music was just there to enhance the experience in advance. The main theme, featuring Shiffern's signature use of electronic music and percussion, perfectly captures the mood of the film. Other hues, such as this torture sequence, brings a harsh, droning tone to your ears, complete in contrast to the next cue on the soundtrack, Love Dream and the Awakening, which is a sweet and quiet piece with a single flute playing amongst some random and unique choices for percussion which end in a more menacing note. And then finally there's the end credits, titled on the soundtrack as Saint Matthew's Passion, which starts out as a low orchestral piece but quickly bursts into beautiful, full choir. THHX eleven thirty eight never got an LP release back in nineteen seventy around the film's time, which is not surprising to the style of music available from the film and that era's aversion to releasing any soundtrack that dares to step outside the normal symphonic It finally saw the light in February of two thousand and three when film Score

30:51 Monthly released the first commercial soundtrack for the score, complete and beautifully remastered in stereo, including music that was never made it into the finished film I'll remix from the original Warner Brothers elements. I'll admit the score may not be everyone's cup of tea, but for those that appreciate a well known and loved composer trying something different for a change successfully. In my opinion, this is a score for you. It's out of print aus of twenty twenty four, but you still be able to get ahold of a copy of it in the secondary market. However, I don't think we'll have to wait too much longer before we see a re release from one of the Lights. Wayne as always. Thank you very much, Andrew.

31:32 I'm glad that Wayne gave me a chance here because he's ripping off some of these amazing film scores from these movies. Yeah, but I had no idea about because you say the name Lailo Schiffrin and I'm like, I'm not sure what he did say. But In the Dragons like probably a top ten movie for me. I love it. I know the music, Yeah, now I know the composer. You know, say Amityville Horror. That movie scared the crap out of me as a kid. It's got such a good sound quality. It's such a good like vibe to it. And I would have never. Known Wayne as you know, not a big fan of horror films, but uh, they they had him on a forty five to do the Amityville Horror earlier this year, and I think I think one of the one of the polls was he's a fan of the music. You know, he mentioned Bullet and you and I have a long.

32:17 History of of of Steve McQueen fandom. Absolutely not the only one that he did for Steve McQueen, though. He also did the music for the Sinsai Kid, which you know, I gotta, I gotta bring that one up, and then pretty much all the all the Dirty Harry movies. He did Dirty Harry Magnum for Sudden Impact and the Deadpool. Wow. Yeah, I mean that's some of those sounds are like iconic too, especially Dirty Hair. I could picture some of those songs just in my head right now. Yeah, I can even hear, like for end of the Dragon, Dirty HAIRRI can hear that waka waka you know noise. Yeah. From moving forward, I will I will recognize Leilo Shiffin for sure. Hell yeah, Andrew, we've talked about a couple scenes disturbing. They may be already, but before we talk about what you feel is a pivotal moment, is there any other scenes that we should we should kind of address or point out?

33:09 Yeah, I mean it there's several shots. I don't even know how to define it because they're not necessarily scenes, but there are so many times in this movie I'm watching it and I'm thinking, this looks like it could be really cheesy sci fi crap, but the way he shoots it and the way they play it makes it like it could be Logan's Run. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Logan's Run, but it's cheesy as all hell. There are scenes in this where you know, he's in like a light bath and he steps out of the shower, or they put this like red pod thing and it just disappears, and it's like, that looks like cheesy crap sci fi graphics, but because it's shot so well, it makes it. It elevates the scene. So I wanted to mention that briefly. But those aren't necessarily individual scenes. Those are just something It always stands out to me when I watch this.

33:55 Well, I mean, I'm not clocking them, but watching this, I feel like each each scene is maybe in between five and ten seconds long before we get a cut. And you're right, it's just like what would be cheesy isn't cheesy because because it is nineteen seventy one, and it is pretty brilliant filmmaking for a kid right out of college with no money. And some of the sets, I'm like, wow, I wonder how they did that. And when I feel like when you can. Watch a movie from nineteen seventy one and still ask yourself, how did they do that shot? I think you're dealing with a maverick. You absolutely are. Yeah, I think there's a reason. You know, Lucas has a reputation nowadays, but back then, you know, he came on the scene and everybody paid attention.

34:42 So let's talk about the pivotal moment in this movie. I have a hunch that you and I are going to have the same one, So I'm going to. Ask you years first, what for you is the pivotal moment in this film. It's hard because it doesn't follow a normal narrative structure. But for me, the moment that this movie really turned is when he is being held. I guess you could call it prisoner in the White Room and you start you see the other people around, you see Sen trying to muster up some sort of revolutionary front and failing to do so. I might add, but they also have you can see. There's there's people who we would probably in nineteen seventy one refer to him as crazy. There's a little person that comes down and you know, sensy, oh, yeah, he's from beyond the shell. And you start to really see what this world actually is, beyond just what THHX has been shown. And I think that to me pushes him to do everything else that he does after that, that pushes him to escape the.

35:40 Scene you're talking about. Let's you know, just for the listeners that haven't seen it in a while or still need to see it. He is convicted of drug evasion and sexual perversion and he's sentenced to a level where he will receive conditioning and be held detention. And this moment, this is where the movie feels to me, it's very one Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Yeah, Like at this point, the very sci fi version of that. Yeah, this is Yeah, at this point in the movie, it becomes a sci fi version of One flu of the Cuckoo's Nest. He's not as chatty and animated as a as Jack Nicholson's character. However, from here on out, it's you know, you know, it doesn't help that they're you know, it doesn't hurt that they're all wearing like these white hospital scrubs and it's like a very sanitized environment.

36:36 It's it just feels creepy and they're all being medicated. Yeah, this movie becomes Kucku's Nest for me at this point. It also gives me kind of Matrix vibes in this scene, specifically as they start to walk away and you realize there's no walls, nothing's being held in here. They're just in an open space. That sort of feels like a scene out of you know, one of those programs that are in the Matrix with just no no end, just an open expanse. Now that I think about this, this movie, this movie is basically one flu of the Matrix, one flu of the Cuckoo's Matrix. It's because that's another one, but it's like where he's you got someone who's being told to conform and stay stay, to stay asleep and produce and be happy, and he's trying to break free and get to the get to the real world.

37:23 Yeah, the robot cops are a little more advanced in the Matrix, but other than that same stuff slightly. Yeah, the pivotal moment for me, I feel is probably where he discovers the fate of law his first roommate. Really sad, dark moment, you know, because he they do they you know, they have one. They have one meeting before he's put away in detention, and it's a it's a quick embrace and she says, hey, I'm I'm going to have a baby, which we know is outlawed. You know, you're not allowed to do this, so you know, for him to find. Out, like yeah, scene and it's heartbreaking because because it's going as they hug, it's like, oh, it's great news, and you're just in there watching like, no, dude, no, it's not. Here come the robot police with those long cattle prod things.

38:06 It's not gonna last. Yeah, and you just know, like the look of joy on her face as she says she's gonna have a baby, and you're just sitting there thinking, yeah, you're not. It's so heartbreaking. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking too because so much of these characters are trying to hold their emotions in because they're afraid of being caught. So it's like you can't even really watch them emote. You don't get to see them sobbing and you know, give the catharsis that way, it's just sort of detached. Yeah, for him to try and track her down and look at the records and find out, oh no, they've already reassigned her name to like you know, this is unborn fetus. That's that's being I don't know, farmed, grown for lack of a grown, for lack of a better word, heart heart harsh scene man, definitely harsh.

38:52 Yeah, for sure, Andrew, let's take let's take one last break and when we get back, well we'll talk a little bit about George. Lucas and then we'll get things wrapped up. Welcome back. We are talking about George Lucas's THX eleven thirty eight. Andrew, shame on me for just blowing right by the fact that one of the greatest sound engineering capabilities and film takes its name from this movie. Right, Yeah, so many things take their name from this movie. You're absolutely right. We talked earlier, Lucas loves to reference this movie. But what's wild is this movie is so fundamental for so many other sci fi greats. It's referenced in countless things. So not talking star Wars or Indiana Jones.

39:42 It's in Dark Star, It's in MST three k as. I'm sure you can imagine references. In the time, you get great sci fi like Gatica or Equilibrium, which Equilibrium shares a lot in common with this movie. But the wild thing is things that have nothing to do with this, like the video game Duke Nukem repeatedly uses one, one, three eight, the West Wing. The TV whoa the West Wing. Oh yeah, Oceans Oceans eleven uses eleven thirty eight, as at the vault number. Rain over me a fantastic Adam Sandler don cheatle movie reference it is. Here's where it gets weird, though. It's been referenced for room numbers in the office, and my personal favorite for the weirdest one was in fifty Shades of Gray Sail. Yeah no, I trust me. I found that one online. But so many filmmakers cite this like as such a great or inspirational thing that they learn it and they study it, that it gets referenced constantly. So I just want to throw a couple of those out there if you want to go online. The list is hundreds of names long. It gets referenced all over the place.

40:54 I mean, I always knew it was gonna be it. I alway knew it was gonna be any strike for stars. But the fact that it's out there in pop culture now now you got me, you got me looking for it. I'm gonna I'm gonna start looking to see if I can see it. On like a you know, room number you know anything else, Like you're like you were mentioning, that's that's that's crazy, man. It's kind the A one, one, three from a Pixar. Now it's you know, it started as Pixar and it's bled out into everything. Wild andrew Three facts about Lucas and a quote number one. He had always planned to be a professional race car driver. However, shortly after high school, he was in a near fatal car accident, which changed his outlook on racing as well as life.

41:42 I feel bad laughing at the first part. Then I was like, I can't picture Lucas as a race car driver. Oh that yeah, I mean you got to think about it, you know. Uh. American graffiti is pretty much autobiographical, you know, it's yeah, it. Was, it was his life. So moving on. He is a major collector of American painter Norman Rockwell's art, so much so that he and his best friend and fellow Rockwell collector Steven Spielberg once shared a collection of fifty seven paintings with the Smithsonian Art Museum in an exhibition titled Telling Stories. Wow. I would have loved to have seen that. Yeah, personally, you know, originals by Rockwell owned by Lucas and Spielberg and set up in a way that that's telling stories.

42:28 I love that. Yeah. I love that they share that too, you know, Yeah, that's cool. Lastly, he has always refused to put critic quotes on his film posters, which has long infuriated the majority of film critics. You know, in these like these little snipets, the little reviews always talks about the critics don't really like him. This is where it stems from. And think about that. Think think when you think about some of the artwork for the Indiana Jones films or the Star Wars films, you know, and we're talking art by drew S Drews an Yeah, think about how how they would have been ruined with like see this movie three times before it leaves the theater.

43:10 Oh, you know, a NonStop thrill ride. Yeah, I love that though, not just for the aesthetic of the poster, which you're spot on, but like he wanted to be an artist, you know, for all the crap we give him for, you know, the sequel trilogy or the prequel trilogies of Star Wars and whatnot. The man we wanted to make art and artists and critics are always gonna have a bad relationship. So I get it. Actually I respect it. It's a cool move. It is. I got a quote here from him, and I could not resist one because it's dealing with a nineteen eighty six classic, Howard the Duck. Oh no, the you know he was an executive producer on He said, my greatest regret in my career is that John Landis was unable.

43:56 To direct Howard the Duck. I feel the movie would have been far more successful and saved me the years of hardship following its release. Oh two things here, Andrew, If you don't know the backstory here, Landis, who is a buddy of his, was all set to direct and then got to the police. Car chase scene. He calls George Lucas up SA say, I can't do this movie. You got a car chase with the police. And Lukes, you know, and and I did that in The Blues brother So you know, I feel like it's at this movie is a little too close to The Blues Brothers. So I'm going to pass. I think about that for a second. A movie about an alien that is more or less a four foot humanoid duck hits earth, has to fight a demon and runs around with very a very young, very very attractive, very sexy Leah Thompson, and it's too close to the Blues Brothers because of a car chase.

44:56 Yeah, I mean I can see both of those movies, and I can confirm it is not it is not too close there. It's not too It's not too close at all. Uh. Lucas Actually he famously disowned Howard the duck it took it wants nothing to do with it, which is. Fair, man, It's fair. I mean, hey, I love it. I but it's not good. I mean, it's it's not it's not good, but it's it's it's a guilty pleasure. Look, we covered it on our nineteen eighty six series. Right over my shoulder, you can see there's a four there's a still book four K blu ray of Howard the Duck thirty fifth anniversary. It's back there, and I will not apologize for that.

45:36 So so listen. We he doesn't have the longest filmography, but I'm gonna ask you, Andrew. Someone watches THHX eleven thirty eight and says, Okay, I don't know who this guy is. This is George Lucas, but uh, what are three films you would use suggest I watch? And I'm pretty sure I. Have to believe that that you and I have two out of three here. I'm just curious about your third one. So you can course correct me if you need to. But let's let's start first on the list. American graffiti, right. Probably. Yeah, it's hard because like the dude, the dude makes.

46:18 Hits, you know what I mean, he does, he does, but you know you're only gonna get you only you're only gonna get three though, you know, so we got American graffiti has to. Make the cut. True. It's I'm also struggling with the concept if somebody comes to me and says, hey, I've watched THHX one, one, three, eight, what's other stuff? Is George Lucas guy has done? So, assuming you're this. Is it's probably someone that's either waking up for a coma or they're like Howard the Duck. They've they've crashed landed on Earth. So play along if you will. But yeah, you know I'm with you though. It's yeah, American Graffiti for sure. Did you know that the license plate on the deuce coup that John Milner drives is in fact, I guess it's on your list. Right right? Oh? Yeah? The first here's something.

46:58 Here, here's a here's a little nugget I think you'll be impressed with. Because George didn't have enough money to pay the entire crew. Those that he couldn't pay, he offered them a screen credit as their payment, and amazingly enough, they all accepted. Now you have to keep in mind before American Graffiti, only the only the department heads were given credit in the in the film. So this is a chance, like you know, hey, Andrew Blakeley, you want to see your name in the movie rather than take your seventy. Three dollars paycheck, Okay, we'll do it. And this basically this changes the closing credits forever, and that's why we have the long CROs closing credits today.

47:41 You know, because now when a movie ends, you're gonna see like six thousand names scroll slowly past you to some hopefully some good music. That's crazy. Yeah, I did not know that. American graffiti is to think for that second movie, you have to recommend Star Wars episode for New Hope. Of course, of course, right the film that no one wanted. He ultimately made a deal with twentyth century Fox. He waived his director fee in exchange for like what forty percent of the box office and full merchandising rights, which again was unheard of. No one cared about merchandising rights. The forethought on that is bonkers.

48:23 Again, Lucas is he's a visionary. He's thinking, he's thinking ahead, he's you know, in nineteen seventy one, he's living in nineteen ninety one easily. Yeah, And I mean, you know, I talked earlier about how many people have said they're influenced by THHX, and you know, filmmakers watch it and they take so much from it. But the impact that Star Wars has had on movies and the world is immeasurable. Doesn't seem like enough. It's one of the most influential things of the past Century. All right, here's where the rubber meets the road. Well we're not talking American Graffiti, but you know, you get the drift. One more film you could recommend to someone. You've told him go check out American Graffiti, You've told him to check out Star.

49:05 Wars and New Hope. What is the third film you're gonna ask them to check out? Because here's where we can so we could differ. Yeah, I mean, what the weird thing is? You know, I think Lucas and I think if you want to know George Lucas, you also have to include the Indiana Jones series. I know the Spielberg directed it, but like, I feel like that's going to be part of the conversation. Uh, I'm gonna pull up his philography now because I' actually I. Was gonna say, hey, I listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you to it because listen, while I was away, you and A were both chose to break it a little couple rules. You know, don't think I didn't don't think I didn't catch that. So this time, this time, I'm holding you. Yes, you know, he executive produced all the Inn Jazz movies.

49:48 But you don't get to use one of them. It has to be something he directed, a film that he directed, So that is where you're left. I mean, I gotta so really, he doesn't have a lung list, so I'm gonna go Revenge of the Sith. That is the correct answer, by the way. I mean, there's interesting things he did with the prequel trilogy. I feel like when somebody shits on them, my first reaction is to run to their defense, and when somebody praises them, my first reactions to come and be like, well they suck, you know what I mean. There's so much good and so much bad happening in them. But yeah, Revenge of the Sith. Actually he pulled together a pretty good movie all things considered. For me, I have to recommend episode three Revenge of the Sith, because if a New Hope is all about introducing a character named Skywalker who is ultimately going to become the hero, fair to say that Revenge of the Sith is about a character named Skywalker who is ultimately going to become the villain, and I kind of dig that, you know, and to your point, the prequel trilogy not the best, you know, we could say that, but of the three, I feel like Revenge of the Sith is the best one.

51:04 Yeah, and I think, you know, again, even even when he's doing overly cgi cheesy storylines, et cetera, some of the fight scenes, you know, the the Phantom Menace fight scene, the Duel of the Fates is, it's still impressive. You know, as cheesy as that movie is, and as much as you have to watch Young Anakin. You know, let's trike cork screen. That's a neat trick, but you know that's happening, amazing, amazing, like Ray Park fight scene. So there's good stuff. There's there's good to be had. Uh. And you know one thing I gotta I gotta point out, since we're talking Revenge of the Sith and we're talking Darth Vader, I did not I've always I've always assumed this, but I never seen it because I never went looking.

51:47 But uh, it is factual that he did take inspiration from Marvel Comics villain Doctor Doom when he was creating the look for Darth Vader. Yeah, you know, I mentioned it earlier. He his iconography is always again, never subtle, but always great. You know that the Stormtroopers, you know, and Vader and everything. He pulls from Buck Rogers, he pulls from you know, World War two footage, he pulls from all these things, and it's he pulls last. Yeah, that's why it lasts. That's why it sticks. You know, he knows, he knows what works, and he knows how to use it. Andrew, you own this film, safe to say that you would recommend seeing it? Sort of this is this is a weird one. This.

52:28 I would absolutely recommend this to film nerds. I think it is valuable piece of film history. I think it introduced a lot of cool stuff and it does a lot of really interesting things. For a casual film viewer, it's kind of boring, got some pacing issues. It's it doesn't do anything traditional. I think if you're just an average casual viewer, probably not. But if you're a nerd and you're listening to this podcast, so I'm guessing you're a bit of a film nerd, absolutely recommend you. Are you are reading my notes I have this film isn't for the casual moviegoer. First line right there, we're on the same path, man, you know. But if you're a Star Wars completist, you want to see the DNA of Star Wars like before it was Star Wars. If you're a fan of early visual effects, if you're a fan of George Lucas, you definitely gotta check it out.

53:17 It's worth the watch. And it's a lean eighty nine minutes, you know. Yeah, yeah, it feels pretty long at places though, I'll be. Honest, Well, listeners, what do you think of THCHX eleven thirty eight? Have you seen it? Did you enjoy it? Please let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for film and TV articles, as well as our entire. Library which is streaming free. And oh, by the way, we have got a nice little survey we would love for you to fill out. As this show continues, we want to get better. We always want to hear your feedback on how we can get better, So please head to the website, take that survey and let us know. You can also write to us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some a film by swag Andrew.

54:13 As always, thank you. I know You've got a very. Busy schedule this month because we've got we got a couple films to talk about for a film buy, we got we got plenty for uh for our Patreon. We got some ten for two coming to them right. Oh. Yeah, I'm really excited. We've got some good ones lined up, some seasonal ones, and some are just gonna be fun to talk about them. I agree. It's all you out there listening to the show, following us on social media, and subscribing to our Patreon. We thank you.