Guillermo del Toro - The Devil's Backbone

0:00 Let's talk scary movie sub genres. Ghosts, slashers, zombies, monsters, what is your go to? It's probably a tie between ghosts and vampires, but probably more ghosts, the kind of houses. Even in a cold open you're gonna, Amber Lewis the answer. I'd even say, I didn't even say vampires, and you're like, it's vampire. You know this, this or that, it's it's vampires. Well, you said ghosts, so I did. In that case. Uh, let's let's talk ghosts. Let's talk about a film by Guillel mel del Toro, his two thousand and one underrated gothic ghost film The Devil's Backbone. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm Amber Lewis, and this is a film by podcast Amber.

1:20 I I'm excited because it's October. We've been talking about scary movies all month long, as we as we typically do, and you like, we're putting the we're putting the show together months ago. You're like, hey, I'm in I want to talk del Toro, And immediately my thought was, okay, I gotta go ahead and tell her that we can't do Crimson Peak because we already did it. You know that's probably what she wants to talk about. And then you you come back and you're like it it's got to be the Devil's back boom. Yeah, And I was like, I was like, oh, okay, okay, my question to you, because you could have picked any director, you could have mostly, you could have picked any movie, and you were all for Del Tour. What's what's the deal with del Tour?

2:16 Why is he your guy? I have such a crush on him, like it's Christopher Nolan, And then like half a step below is Garima del Toro. Like he is the most intelligent, sensitive, aeradite, amazing guy, and if you listen to any interview of his, you just completely fall in love with him. And then he creates these movies that are just creepy and kind of gross but beautiful, and it's just he's just fascinating to me. I don't think there's another director that can merge beauty and horror as expertly as he does. I'm with you on this, I'm with you on this.

3:00 Yeah under percent. Yeah, well, and this isn't your first time talking about your boy Giomo right no over on. The docum Base seventy seven podcast last year, we did an episode on Mimic, which is not one of his greatest for many many reasons, and we go very deep into that, but I also get to just expound about how wonderful he is. So it's one of my favorite episodes that we've done. I if you weren't going to bring it up, I That's that's why I had to mention it right now, because I thought that was a fantastic episode and it helped me understand why you wanted to do a del Toro film here. And I'm already like, I'm already thinking, like, well, what's what's the next del Tora film that we can do, you know, next season or you know season after that. Well, we'll we'll we'll have to we'll have to have that conversation.

4:00 But before we get to the Devil's Backbone, I got a shout out. We got another new Patreon member joining us. Yeah, absolutely, Chris Weber. I know he's listening. Chris is Amber. Chris is an awesome guy. Uh. You know how every group has that one guy who has like an encyclopedia knowledge with like records or you know, music or movies. We all we all have that the go to guy in the group, right, like Phaser sets a stun. Wayne is basically data or mister Spock, like he knows everything. I'm a star trek, right, Yes, Chris, good buddy, Chris. Uh, this is the guy who can tell you anything when it comes to vinyl. I I just you know, I got the shop with him a couple of weeks ago.

4:57 We're we're actually in Missouri for the Shirley Fest, uh, for with our with our good friends Jason d from the Shirley You Keep Serious podcast, and Chris is like, hey, I found this, found this this spot in town. You got some vintage and just watching it, he was like a surgeon. It was it was just it was it was cool to see and he final he found something that was like I don't know, Chris. Chris is probably laughing because he's like, yeah, he has no idea what he's talking about. But but it looked it was it was very rare, like like I watched Chris look at this thing and examine, you know, examine the actual record. It was like watching Indiana Jones look at you know, a relic. So I love people like that that just have that niche knowledge.

5:39 Yeah, fantastic guy. Uh, Chris, We're very happy to have you on patroon. I already told him. I was like, listen, you give us some feedback, you know, you tell us, you know, because Amber, we got like fifty exclusive episodes over there. Now, like the only way you can get to it is through Patreon. So I told Chris is like, hey, man, check it, check it out and let us know what's working over there. Speaking of Patreon, earlier this month, we did another entry in our film by Request for one of our Patreon members, like Chris, Amber, you, David and Wayne. Let everyone listening know that they should they should cross over children, they should go into the light.

6:25 Yes, we did a deep dive into the classic maybe Poltergeist and I love those boys. We had such a good time and Wayne did a great like breakdown of the soundtrack as always, We just had a fantastic time recording that episode. I real quick. The thing about Patreon that I love, it gives us, like some of our limited series, it gives us a chance to venture away from our format here, which is you know, talking about underrated films from the directors that we love and the a film by request. That's it's awesome because like our Patreon members. You know, when you're at that that certain tier, you can if you want us to talk about a blockbuster film, or a television movie from nineteen seventy three or a TV show.

7:14 It like, all bets are off, and it gives us the chance to really flex our creat our creativity and and have some fun. So I will just tell you listeners, all are welcome, you know, step into the light of our Patreon Go to us. Yeah, joined us. All welcome. You can go to www dot patreon dot com. Slash a film by podcast. You can sign up for a free seven day trial. Check it out, you know, get in there Columbia houses, download a bunch of stuff, check it out, and then get out if you want, or or stay we if you do, we got we got a lot of fun a film by swag for you.

7:56 And even if you're not one hundred percent sure that you're ready to do so, you can still join as a free member because Amber, we have several free episodes that we will will drop every now and then. Right, yep, nice little bonuses that we. Throw in absolutely all. Right, now that the Patreon talk is out of the way, Amber, let's talk about mister del Toro. Can you listen. I've talked about him before a couple of seasons ago. This is your guy, Why don't you if you're up for it, can you give us maybe a couple of fun facts, maybe a quote from the man. Yes, I tried to keep it short and I can go on and on, and tried to do something like a little different. So for the facts, one of my favorite things about him is how much he loves fairy tales and the horror genre and movies and all kinds of art. So he actually has a second house that he is filled with over ten thousand items, pieces of art, sculptures, things from his films, different other pieces of movie memorabilia.

9:13 And then he's got the rooms divided into libraries with different books. I mean, it's just this treasure trove of gems that he's collected over the years. So this sounds like the ultimate Airbnb. Yes, I mean he could just open it up. Of course, he's very like he won't let anyone clean it except himself because they'll touch things. So I think he would not be able to handle having it as like a museum with people walking through. But there's pictures online from interviews that he's done and things like that, and it's just amazing the things that he has in there.

9:54 So I love that about him. The other thing that I wrote down was he's very His movies are just so personal and are so meaningful to him. And for hell Boy and Pan's Labyrinth, he actually traded his salary to get better effects for the movies. You've got to be kidding me. Yeah, he hell Boy, like he loves that comic. He identifies with that character. He fought for years to have Ron Perlman play hell Boy because that he decided that was the only person that could play him and he had to have like this certain look, and so he was like, fine, just take my salary back, put it into the movie. And the same thing for for Pan's Labyrinth. And I just think that that's somebody that's so passionate about their work that they're like, Okay, i'll pay for it, but it has to be perfect.

10:57 That's, you know, that is a That's a prime example of someone that that it's like a labor of love. They're they're doing it. They're not doing it for the money, They're doing it because they want to put it out in the world. I'd dig that about him. That's that's fantastic. What else she got anything else? Yeah? One more fact is. That he's the first filmmaker to win Best Director and Best Picture Oscars and then turn around and win an Oscar for Best Animated Feature for different films in different years. I can't think of Wait, so he wins Best Picture. He won Best Director and Best Picture for the Shape of Water in seventeen, and then in twenty twenty two he won Best Animated Feature for Pinocchio.

11:40 I can't think of anyone that's done that. Nope, he was an animated Yeah. Okay, awesome, Yeah, very awesome. I know, I know this guy. He doesn't shy away from the camera. How about how about a good quote? Did you find Did you happen to find a fun quote? Yes? I tried short, but if you if you look online, there's actually books that go with his movies. I have the Crimson. Peak book, but I'm looking to get like Devil's Backbone and Pen's Labyrinth and Shape of Water. But they're written by others. But he does the forward and it's all about the production of the film and everything. So this is from the Devil's Backbone forward.

12:20 He said, that this is, of course, after the first movie he made, after Mimic, and if you want. To hear what a shit show that was. Like I said, head over to docu Base seventy seven and we break it all down for you. But he was almost like, Okay, maybe I'm not supposed to be Wow, So he said about this movie making The Devil's Backbone, I finally felt in command of my visual style, my narrative rhythm, and was able to work in a profound manner with my cast and crew to craft a beautiful genre masher, a gothic tale set against the backdrop of the greatest ghost engine of all war.

13:01 The ghost is not the scariest thing in the tail. It is human cruelty. Very Well said, I like that everything he says is. Like this, like he just opens his mouth and this beautiful poetic stuff about Now. I remember the first time you recommended The Devil's Backbone as an episode for us. My first thought was fantastic, it's not Crimson Peak, and then my second thought was I never heard of it, So, you know, assuming that maybe there's a couple other people that are not as obsessive and loving of del Tour as you, are can you give us a brief synopsis about the Devil's Backbone.

13:48 So, after Carlos, a twelve year old whose father has died in the Spanish Civil War, arrives at an ominous boy's orphanage, he discovers the school is haunted and has many dark secrets which he must uncover. Right to the point. Uh, this is also. The brother movie to Pans Labyrinth. This is you the male and Pan Labyrinth is a female. Quit looking at my notes I had, I had a nice soul. I'm looking down. I was like, we it, I got this.

14:28 Yeah, a little little inside of the film's background. Ambers like, yeah, I was. I was a production assistant. What do you want to know? I was all I was all excited. Where the what the hell was I thinking that I was gonna wow you with some kind of fact. You know, Hey, Amber, did you know that this is considered a Yeah, you say, yeah, this is this is the You know, if Devil's Backbone is the brother to Pan's Labyrinth, Pans Labyrinth is the sister the Devil's Backbone. Now, I thought that was a pretty cool fact to share later on, but yeah, nothing to get by you. I yeah, let's just yeah, I think this one's gonna be a little bit different anyways.

15:16 Uhlsponazzo del Diablo, The Devil's Backbone Amber uh highly rated film across sites like Internet Movie Database, Metacritic, Rotten Tomatoes, Letterboxed. Highly reviewed film with critics. Roger Ebert gave it three out of four stars. Aren't No, And you know, I like that this fun thing, like sometimes if you just Google a movie title, then there's like the sub Google questions, like like the most asked questions. And I don't know if you've ever picked up on this. People like the people also ask segment Yes, it's always is insert film title a good movie? And I had to look. I was like, what are people thinking? And I hit the little drop down box. Is the Devil's Backbone a good movie?

16:10 And then it says here the Devil's Backbone is a mesmerizing and inventive addition to the ghost story tradition. The film moves slowly, but that is a definite advantage to it. The slow pace allows us to get to know and even care for the characters before the horror starts, and this makes the horror all the more potent when it does start. Now I read that. I see what Ebert's talking about. I hear you talking about it. I go watch the movie and shocking plot twist. Amber, What am I missing? Because literally this film did put me to sleep.

16:56 And the only thing, the only thing remotely scary is it's run time of one hundred eight minutes. What you're the voice of reason, you know, help me out, teach me, Amber? What what what's going on? Like? Why why did I get it? I don't help me. I don't know where you put off By the fact that it's Spanish language that puts a lot of people off. I think that's why it's well not as well known. Okay, so nine times out of ten you give me a move. You know, a foreign film, you know, I've got subtitles. I'm reading it. It will not bother me. However, with it being a horror film, you know, you're you should be focused on what's in the room, what's what's about to jump out? Right? And when you're busy, when my eyes are busy at the bottom of the screen trying to read everything, and it's a little fast, like some of the dialogs fast paced, So I'm trying to read and keep up and I'm not, and I'm missing.

17:50 I feel maybe i'm missing, like I was, like literally missing some of the footage because I'm too busy reading. Because you know that I had the option you either you either watch it with subtitles or you can have you know, it can be dubbed, and I just can't do that. I can't do the dubbed version of stuff. I don't know about you. No, I think it takes away. In a language, then you need to hear it in that language, even if you don't understand well. And that's that's just it. Like I feel like if I'm hearing someone else's voice, it's taking away from the performance of the actor that I'm watching. Yes, so I have to have the subtitles. I have to, you know, So I don't know. I'm not going to say that that's the main reason. That's the thing that took me.

18:32 But I do agree with you. I've seen this movie so many times, Like it's scared the pants off me the first time I saw it, but it's not really scary anymore. But I don't have to read the subtitles like word for word because I pretty much know what's going on, So I'm able to just sort of relax and enjoy the visuals. Yeah, and check in with the dialogue, you know, kind of every now and then. So you know, maybe that's why I have a different experience. Yeah, and you know watching it because there are scenes that are like legit scary. Okay, we're gonna get to them, you know.

19:13 Well, I mean unless you don't think ghosts are scary, maybe that's maybe ghosts don't scare you. Well, you know, I ghosts are scary, like Poulter guys still is scary. You know, the Conjuring movies. I think those are scary as hell. Sinister if you ever saw Sinister with Ethan Hawk, that that is scary as shit. Like it's ghosts are scary. And here's the thing, I think ghosts are more scary than any like six foot tall maniac with a hatchet or a chainsaw, because at least with those guys, I might I'm probably gonna lose. But those guys, i's gonna say. You're a boy though, it's those are scarier for girls. Yeah, well I can. I can fight Jason Vorhees, right, I can. I can. I can throw a chair at Michael Myers. You know some thing that you know, when ship's flying around the room or the walls are bleeding.

20:05 I can't. I can't punch. I can't punch that. You know, that's scary ass none you know from the Conjuring universe. I can't punch her in the face. I'm scared of her. I won't watch that movie by myself, Ambro, don't. I'll admit it. That's fine. Yeah, so ghosts are scary, it's not. I don't know. I just I'm hoping that you'll, you know, maybe this episode will be more of a low key exorcism. You'll you'll, you'll heal me, you'll find the way to bring it, bring me to light, and not then be like, oh, I didn't, I didn't look at it the movie like that. We'll find out. But before we before we talk cast and crew, let's let's take a quick break, and then we'll get back to the Devil's Backbone. All right, uh, Amber, we are back. We're talking about your guy, Gilmel del Toro and his uh, his guy the ghost story. That's not Crimson Peak, It's it's the Devil's backboon. I'm gonna ask you because I know my answer is already blank. Slate.

21:11 There's some great acting in this film, yes, but I have I don't recognize a single person. So I wanna, I wanna. You know, I'm gonna kind of put you in the driver's seat here and and and let's talk about some of these these characters. So let's talk about some of these actors. Who are we talking about? Well, the one that I did have, I had kind of a leg up on the story the first time I saw it because EDWARDO Noriega, who plays Jacinto, was in I'll Break Those Open your Eyes, which is the Spanish version. Of Vanilla Sky.

21:53 I love Vanilla Sky. Okay, well Vanilla Skuy sucks. I Break Those is really good. And this guy played such a jackass in that movie, Like I hated him in that movie. But you're supposed to, you know, so you shun up. And I was like, eh, this guy which you're not supposed to when you first see him. You're supposed to be like, well hello. Yeah, taker yeah. So the big reveal for me was like, well, all right, saw that one coming because. He's a joke, total total misdirection because uh, Jacinto, I'm like, hey, what's up? Spanish Eli Roth, Like this is like, is this the hero? Is this? This is the hard working guy.

22:33 He's got the beautiful, the beautiful bride. Okay, now the guy's a dick. Yeah he's the worst. He is the worst worst. Yeah. Uh, how about can't tell you who? I like? He like my go to one one person. I really enjoyed. Uh, Federico Loopi he plays? Does he not give off like Christopher Lee vibes? He does? I think that I was digging him. Yeah. So allegedly his his character was heavily based off of one of del Toro's uncles, who Del Toro claims came back as a ghost. And if you you know, if you buy into that, then you're like, yeah, this guy doctor Cassaris. Uh, I don't know. I did. I did like his character a lot. I like the whole book and the the you know, the book endings, you know, with like the what what's a ghost like him? Kind of giving us that narration in the beginning. And that's and truthfully at the beginning when we're getting this weird like what am I looking at? Am I underwater? Am I not underwater? Is? What is? I think that? I know what that is? That looks like a corpse, but I'm not sure. And you've got this, you know, like this world's most interesting man kind of narration about what is a ghost and kind of like it's almost like a philosophy course. And I'm in at that point, like and and I'm in because of doctor Cassaris and his character.

24:04 So really enjoyed him, really did. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I also just love the kids. I'm surprised, Uh the kid. Well, our main, our main, our lead, Carlos, Yes, Fernando, Uh, maybe I do French. That's right, that's all. That's right. You're you're you're the expert on French pronunciation. We'll disapologize in advance for saying their name is wrong. I expected him. This movie comes out in two thousand and one, and obviously he's an adult. Now. I just would have figured he would have been like one of those breakout stars that you know, we saw him in some some some foreign films and then he, you know, like Quentin Tarantino or someone like that, cast him in a in a movie and then all of a sudden, he's like he's Hollywood's new it guy. You know. Yeah, he's fantastic, he really is.

25:04 Yeah, he's amazing. He I just I love him so much. I love his character. Germa de Tourre has a way of getting performances out of children that are just spectacular. It's one of those situations where these kids their orphans. We're in an orphanage, right, this is during the it was like the nineteen thirties, late thirties, the Spanish Spanish Civil. War, right before World War two. Yeah, and these kids, at no point do they actually have conversations that children would have, with exception to Carlos kind of sharing, like he's new to the orphans orphanage, and he's sharing like I got some comic books, I got some toys, you know, and the other the other boys are like, oh cool, let's let's check this out.

25:52 But other than that, their conversations are very adult, and normally that would that would bother me to some degree. But then again, these kids, their whole life is like war, hunger, misery. I mean the what the. Night when they sneak out of bed and they're going through all of Carlos's comic books and toys and stuff, like they're talking about like this's worst. Never gonna end. Yeah, it's you know, like conversations like that that we don't have. Yeah, this is this isn't Bart and Nelson in the treehouse. You know, they're they're having like adult conversations, and typically that would that would dissuade me a little bit, you know, because I'm not talking like that when I'm eleven years old.

26:39 But then again, I wasn't in an orphanage. Yeah, d bikes and like. Building forts and planet. Yeah, absolutely, it's just the place is miserable, like and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. It's supposed to be miserable, but even like would you call her like the head mistress or talking about the. Car Carmen and and doctor Kassaris kind of run this place together. Yeah, but she's got like a tenderness towards the boys too that if you think she's just gonna be when she's telling him like, this is your bar of soap passed the last few a year, don't lose, don't lose, you know, and you think she's gonna be mean, but then like you see your smile when they're playing, and you know she appreciates them and she's doing an awful lot of work to keep them alive. While their parents are off fighting this war.

27:30 She's put upon. I won't disagree with that, and you're right, I guess she softens here and there like I do. Like when he first shows up and she's taken him to bed tim Er twelve, you know, she's like, and you know, here's your soap. But it does feel like you're watching a prison movie. At least that's what I'm thinking. And then the line, you know, the character says the line, this is not a prison. You know, you don't think of it like that. I thought, Okay, well, and she. You know, when he's left there, it's a traumatic experience. He doesn't know he's being dumped by Okay, this is a whole misdirection that he goes through. And she sends doctor Cassaris to like because she knows he's the one that can meet him on his level and distract him and make him feel better.

28:19 Cassaris is gonna be like your Dumbledore or you're you're Ben Kenobi from seventy seven Star Wars, Like he's he's gonna take you in. You know, you come, he'll he'll comfort you, He'll take under his wing. Yeah, but and listen, we can go ahead and talk about this moment because this is definitely not a notable moment or pivotal scene or anything like that, but what a dick move like this? You know, this kid shows up with his tutor and the guy's like, yeah, wait outside, you know, play with the kids, and you know, we're inside there, and I'm thinking, well, this is a good guy. You know, he's been looking after this kid. His dad is dead. He hasn't told the kid that his dad is dead. So now we're gonna have a very heartfelt moment and be like, listen, you're here because you're you know, your father. Whatever. I thought we're I thought that's where we're going. And then this kid looks up and hey, wait, what's my suitcase doing out there? And he's literally running with his suitcase in hand after the car. Like this guy couldn't even stop to say, he couldn't even lie to and be like, hey, we'll be back in like a week, you know, just dick move. Amber. Yeah. I was like, come on, man, this kid's life isn't hard enough. You're just gonna you're just gonna ghost him like that.

29:30 I mean, he is, God help us. You're off track now, yep, totally lost the thread. But yeah, I mean, I he's going back to the front line. He's probably going to be killed himself, so I'm a little empathetic. But yeah, I guess you could have. Been a little a little kinder to the child and taken care of But this is like the world that they're living. I mean, it's a harsh world. But I love the way it's shot. I love looking at this orphanage and it's an interesting building, and the colors are beautiful, and the way the walls kind of are weeping, like they look like they're crying, and there's a lot of interesting things there. And that metaphor of that bomb in the courtyard is amazing.

30:28 Oh, I love that. And it's always in the background of scenes. It's almost like a cat. Yes, it's it's a little foreboding. I will say that. At first I thought this is kind of cool. What's the story? Okay, not much of a story. It's just there to set peace, but but a cool one. Right, do you want to talk a little bit about the I got a couple of things about the film's background. You already know. You already know them because you know because you Okay, well, let's let's let's let's test chronology. Did you know that Del Toro wrote this while he was in college? Of course you did. I'm not even don't even pretend. I'll tell you what.

31:12 Let me just that lie, that's it. Just let me just do this for our listeners. Who who uh who don't know everything about FRO. Yeah, he did, so, he writes, he writes this in college. This is a very intensive laborer love for him. You you kind of mentioned that that that some of his projects are very personal to him. He was sixteen years in development on this. I do know that he cites the Spanish comic series Paracuellos by Carlos Jimenez as inspiration for the film. It was I guess the comic is set. It's a night. It's like an orphanage in the nineteen fifties, is a you're shaking your head like of course, I know.

31:52 I know that he said that, I don't know anything about the I. Was waiting for you go, I've got I've got the first three volumes of Paraquellos. What are you talking about now? Yeah? But here's the cool thing. Though, he actually invited him and as to do storyboards for the film. So he's inspired by the comic and then it says, well, if I'm gonna have storyboards, why not just have the guy that you know did the did the comic as my storyboard are. So I thought that was kind of cool. Yes, very much. So I do know, like you mentioned Mimic and listeners again, go go check Amber's in depth analysis on Mimic. Check that episode out on docu Bayed seventy seven.

32:37 But apparently he had a little bit of a rift the Weinstein's after Mimic and kind of went to a patch. Like if you look at the filmography, his timeline, it's a little spacey after after Mimic, you know, it's he's not cranking movies out left and right. And you know, he was under the impression that they were kind of bad mouthing him around town and he couldn't anything, couldn't get anything going. His good buddy Pedro Motivar, thank you for the pronunciation. He stepped in, was like, hey, listen, man, I think it was like the Miami Film Festival. They bumped into each other and he was like, look, I'll produce your next movie. Let's make something happen, and we get the Devil's Backbone.

33:25 The story that I love is that when they were It's a Mode of Art and his brother run this production company and German Datura met with them and he was, you know, they're hashing out the deal or whatever, and he starts talking very passionately about how like I have to have final cut, like that is non negotiable, you know, and on Motivar is like, what are you talking about, and he's like, well, you know, final cut, like I get a say in what it is shown in theaters and in trailers and on video and blah blah blah, and a motiverse like you're the director, Like why why wouldn't you. I don't I don't understand, and like had no clue that you know until Camera's like, well, let me tell you about how working for Merrimax. But I had no clue that that was that was some kind of horror show that people were subjected to. And Garamudel's hora was like, oh my god, I can breathe, I can make that.

34:30 I want to make. Well, let's talk. Let's talk about some noteworthy scenes, and I'm again, let's let's put you in the driver's seat. You you know this is your because again I'm I'm not saying this is a bad movie. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just I'm not not feeling. Are you disappointed because you weren't scared? Or ah? Maybe okay, so maybe maybe I'm not scared. Maybe maybe it's this It's not a story like if you watch The Changeling, you're watching a hunter House movie that scares you, and the ghost is scary, and it's all scary and it's all about the house and it's all about the ghost. And this movie really has so many more layers to it and really isn't about what you think it is.

35:16 Okay, so let's be fair and put and put this out there for anyone. You know. I apologies if you feel that it's a spoiler. The ghost is not the villain. The ghost is. Not like this movie already kind of said that. So yeah, the movie, that's the movie. The movie has a monster and it is not this ten year old boy Santi. Yeah, so when he should when he pops up here and there, Yeah, I'm like, okay, not scary at all. Literally, See the first time I watched it, it was scary because I didn't know anything going in. So the thing about ghosts that that I think is scary is you don't know what they want. You don't know why they're there, and you can only imagine that they're like pissed and want to hurt you, because why else would you come back from the dead, Like it's got to be something. So when the ghost first shows up, you know, it's scary because he's appearing to Carlos and you don't know like what's going to happen, what he wants? You know, does he want to all these kids to join him?

36:28 You know? And then his first communication with Carlos is many of you will die? Yeah, many of you. Many of you will die. Okay, what does that mean? Yeah? You know? Yeah, well yeah he's Sometimes a ghost is there in a scary movie or a thriller to warn you or to help you uncover like their horrible death or what wronged them. And this is definitely in Del Toro's movies. Yes, Del Toro's ghosts. They might scare you, but they're there to to help you. We know that, yes, But the. Scariest thing is, you know, as you start to unravel, you know who the true villain is, and you're wondering, like, you know, what's he gonna do?

37:15 How far is this gonna go? Yeah, I just he's you know, he just isn't scared like the villain of the Piece. I mean, it was a twenty year old movie, so we could probably just go ahead. Yeah, the you know, the you know, the villain, the caretaker. Why why should I be scared of a late twenties good looking dude, you know, who has a hot wife. I can't be I can't be scared of that. He's out and he's what's gold. It's like, okay, well, I think at first it's more your focus is on the ghost. Yeah, and you start to peel back these layers of Jacento's character and you're seeing that, like, at first, you thought he was this good looking guy and he's gonna take his.

38:03 Girlfriend and they're gonna run away and you know whatever. And then you start peeling back these layers and you're like, oh no, he's a liar who just wants to steal this gold, and you know, any's selfish and he's manipulating everybody in this orphanage. So he's a horrible person. But you know, I think as the layers keep healing and he gets more and more desperate for this gold, that's when you start to see like he will do anything. I mean, I was waiting for it. I was like, is he gonna burn the whole building down with the kids inside? Like he already said he wanted to burn the Orphanage down. I think as we unravel, as we peel this thing, I think, I think I'm starting to discover what it is that's got me put off. I know I'm gonna see a great film because it's written and directed by Del Toro, and I know it's gonna look gorgeous. And this film does this film, the cinematography is fantastic, this like you mentioned this, this Orphanage. You know, I'd love to know what the real story is because that clearly is not a sound stage. That is something that they found somewhere, right. But I think the movie struggles with its identity because we've got this huge subplot about the guy that you thought was good who's actually the chief villain, and then his you know, bumbling stooges that that are helping him, you know, the two or three guys that are there too, and the whole thing is they've been

39:36 breaking this place, you know, piece by piece they've been They've been searching this orphanage for the gold. Right, either the Republican has the gold, Carmen the the head mistress, she's got it tucked away. We don't know where it's at. So it's kind of like this whole it's like a heist movie that's hiding behind a ghost story. And I feel like maybe the ghost story is taking too much of a back seat to you know, the bad guy is looking for the bars of gold. I think that maybe that's what my problem is with it. I don't know. I don't know, because I think that the murder of Santi is really what shows you how soulless just sentail is.

40:22 Oh, and I agree with that, and that. He is capable of doing anything, and he just wants hits all avarice, And you're seeing the worst of all of the people around these children except for who you know is in the orphanage. Everybody else is awful. Like you see these fascists kill catch a bunch of Republicans and just murder them all. And there's you know, bombs being dropped on the orphanage. Yeah, you know, and they just got lucky and it didn't blow up. So everywhere they turn, you know, it's just danger and people that you can't trust.

41:05 And I don't disagree with. You, just a different movie than you thought it was going to be, and you're like still reeling from this isn't what I thought I was going to watch. Yeah, oh okay, so I wasn't. I don't think. Yeah, you're right, I wasn't properly prepared because. You thought you were going to watch the Orphanage maybe you know, or or the Changel like the others. Yeah, the other Yeah, the others comes out. It's it. Think about that. The Others also came out in two thousand and one, and we're going to talk about that next season spoilert. I don't say anything else because we. I've already threatened your life that I have to be on that episode. So you'll be you'll be on the other's episode. But here's the thing. I think you're right, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna put the blame on Prime. I don't know if I can do that, but here's what. Here's here's my case, Samber. Okay, something that bugs me about Prime when you watch it, like, listen, I love that they've got a big catalog and they've you know, Prime is one of the one of the streamers I use all the time.

42:10 Yeah. Thing that bugs the shit out of me is sometimes you will pull up a movie on Prime and you will click that little link to watch the trailer, and you will see the trailer to the movie. And sometimes, depending on what the film is, you will not see the trailer. You will see a scene from the movie. So I never did that, so I don't know anything about this. Yeah. So if you go to Prime right now, which is where I watched it, and you hit the trailer button, what you're gonna get is the scene where Carlos first shows up, and it's it's the doctor and Carmen. Uh it's that scene where they're up in the second floor and they're looking out and there and the guy and the doctor's like, hey, uh, IANA's back, and yeah, he brought another kid and comments like we don't want another kid, get scram you know, and we can't afford him, we can't feed him. And it's that two minute scene and it's boring as hell because you're like, wait, what are we doing what's going on, and that's in.

43:22 The context of the movie. It's an establishing, you know, bit of exposition. That you need we do need in the movie for like a trailer throw no, when. You click on it, let's watch. Especially when the ad for it on Prime. Like the cover picture is like almost exactly the same one page as Insidious with like creepy kid with the cilling eyes, you know that kind of thing, So that if that's what she thought, you were turning on, Like. Yeah, there was you know, kind of a buyer beware. Like I was like, wait, I bought cool creepy ghost story in an orphanage, and I got, you know, historical wartime heist movie for gold and there's a ten year old and oh god pops up every Now you.

44:16 Haven't watched Pans Labyrinth and we're gonna have to go through this all again. No, I've seen Pants Labyrinth. I think it's brilliant. Yeah, there's very few. Honestly, I haven't seen Kronos. I hadn't. I hadn't as weird as shit, but it's really good. It's kind of gross, though. Yeah, I will say the bulk of his filmography I've seen it, and I love it. Yeah, you know, I mean this is our second Del Toro episode obviously. Yeah, you know. If the guy's a hack, I'm like, we're not doing that. Sorry, pick somebody else. I think this one like revisited again, I know, when you're having a Delta marathon, and I think you'll appreciate it more over time. By no means is this his weakest film. Not even clo I will say that. I feel like, again, it's October, the leaves are scattering, it's a little chilly outside, pumpkins, It's time for scary movies. I could watch this again in say December or March, or you know, the next time I go. And I'll be honest, you know, I could give it another shot. You know, I'll let my memory fade a little bit on it and then go into it going, hey, you are not about to watch a scary movie.

45:32 Yeah, it's like incidental. It could have been. It could have been that Santi wasn't dead and was just hiding out in the basement. Yeah, Santy could have been like like, hey, the kid ran away, But no, he hasn't, like Carlos's like, hey, you know, because he again, Carlos just like he's not afraid of He ain't afraid of the ghosts. I love that he's afraid. But he's in control of himself enough where he stands up to Hymi when he's trying to bully him, you know. And then he stands up to Santi and it has enough control to say like, what do you want? And yeah, well and he runs off.

46:14 He's in the basement. He's like, hey, do you live down here? Like he's he's like Peter Vinkman. All of a sudden, he's like, you know, yeah, he's just making small talk. He's like being casual about it. So, yeah, I don't know. I I yeah, I just have the wrong frame of mind. I think I have the wrong idea going into it. Well, there's so much that's beautiful in it that are just little things, you know, that aren't really drawn attention to, but they're just there and they're beautiful. Like You've got this whole thing with Jacinto stealing this gold, and then you've got this beautiful scene between him and Conchita where he gives her the gold wrapper. Yeah, as a ring, and it's fake gold, but it's more precious to her.

47:03 Yeah. I just I love those those things like it's beautiful. One more thing, since we're off the rails here, we're not talking about scenes really, well, it's fine, it's fine. It happens. I think. I think one more thing that I have trouble with is I don't connect. I need to connect to a character, like I want to be along for the ride. I was looking for my avatar, right, like who who am I in this movie? And I was struggling because at first I was like, Caretakers, is gonna be the hero? I want to I'm gonna follow his story. And then you find out, No, he's a piece of ship. He's awful, not gonna be that guy.

47:44 Uh you know, Oh, here's the you know, the older kid him who is you know, he's kind of like he's the tenured kid. He's he's like the leader of the kids, right. And I was like, okay, well here's he's he's he's leading the goonies, right, He's leading the monster squad. He's a bully. He's got the best arc though, because he starts as a bully and then grows throughout the movie to be the hero. Yeah, he does, but I, I and. Carlos share that at the end. Did you love those boys? Didn't you identify with those boys? I thought they were so adorable, like when. They couldn't bonding over the comic books. And okay, comic books. Yeah, but the thing is, I can't.

48:26 I wasn't identifying with HEIMI I wanted to, and then I couldn't because he's the bully and you. Know, yeah, but he's not always the bully, and when you found out what happened to him, you can understand why. I mean, bullies operate from a base of fear, and he's terrified that he's going to get murdered by this truth taker. You know, I'm too, I'm too deep into the movie. Once I realized that, I'm like, all right, he's maybe he doesn't suck as much, but I'm not with him. And I I struggle identifying with Carlos because I have never my life wanted to befriend the bully. I wanted to kick the bully's ass, like that's what you do to a boy? You beat him? Did I mean he did? He did? You were you were mad that he saved him from drowning.

49:07 You were like, let him sink. Oh, I want to let him sink, like I'm running. I'm running the orphanage. Now, you know, things could have been cool, but you bullied me, and I like said, I'm fine with the bullying. Where it was like, hey, I dare you to go sneak in and get the water? You know, wasn't that great though? And Carlos steps to him and he's like, well, why don't we both go unless you're scared? Exactly. Okay, So I don't think it's a pivotal moment, but I will say. It is a really good one. Now, okay, so two scenes. All right, we're you know what, we're gonna throw out noteworthy scenes and pivotal moments. I'm just gonna tell you. Yeah, there's two scenes where I was like, I enjoyed it, and it was it was Carlos standing up to the bully because you know, Jimi's like, you know, you broke the water, you're gonna go get you know you're sneaking out, you're doing it. And then I liked how he challenged him, was like, well, yeah, I will. I don't have a problem going. You can come with me unless you're scared. So I did like that moment for the two boys. I thought, Okay, This is him not backing down from a bully. And I did, like that, Can we talk about the what do they call it? The water? This is the rum? No? No, in the what was it called?

50:27 I don't remember that part's kind of squeamish for me. Okay, So I break it down. So the doctor Casteris has these like canopic jars of fetuses that have died from spinabefida, yes, and in there they are preserved in this liquid that's got a rum based. To it, yeah, spices rum some others. And so he takes this into town and he bottles it. He takes it into town and sells it as an impotit secure. So these idiot villagers, and that's how they get money to feed the kids of the orphanage.

51:11 Now here's the thing, you know, because he turns the jar around, you see the you see the spine, and that's where we get the devil's idiot, because this is it's called the devil's backbone. Yes, And I thought, okay, here's the scene where he's he's kind of scaring. He's being like that, he's doing the fun thing where like you're the you're the uncle that is gonna tell us a scary story to your nephew or niece. And I'm really enjoying it. And he's because like this is the story. I'm like, you know, he pulls the ladle out and dips a little in and puts a little shot glass, and I'm like okay, because the kid, you know, Carlos, is like, hey, I've seen ghosts and here's the thing, and and like it's like a lesson where he's like, well, if you believe in ghosts and you'll believe in then you believe. Yeah, you'll believe, you'll believe in supernatural things and it cures illnesses. So here, if you believe in ghosts, have a drink. And the kid's like, oh.

52:00 When he ran out, that was so great. He runs right out, and I was like, okay, that was a little morbid, you know, because it's basically you know, poor Man's from auto Hyde. But I was like, oh, that was fun. But then he takes the shot. He drinks this stuff that has a you know, a corpse, a fetus corpse in it. I'm like, oh, that's it's horrible. If I did. If you had a woman that you really really wanted to sleep with, then you couldn't. Maybe you would try anything. I'm not drinking. Uh, I'm drinking baby, I'm not drinking baby, baby, fetus, baby, baby room. Yeah, corpse, corpse baby, rom.

52:44 Not doing it, think about what might have been. Nope, not drinking that. No thanks, and let's uh, let's wrap this up. And I am excited to hear your answer here, because this is this is where we like to say, hey, you got somebody. They just watched The Devil's Back going for the first time. Their name was not Jeff Johnson, so they're saying, hey, this movie. Was to us. Talk about it now they have a more realistic expectations. Yeah, but they see this movie and they they they want more. Yiel Mel del Toro, what three films are you?

53:28 Amber Lewis, the voice of reason, going to suggest they watch Okay, what's your first what's your first choice? I have two lists if you want them. I have Liam's list. I have my list because Giambo does like comic book stuff and then he does his own stuff. So I came home. There list listen, uh Cheaty Cheeterson from Cheaterville. You know, I know I want the option that Hi, I'm Amber Lewis, and these are three three movies that you should check out. What you know I have. I have a thesis paper I wrote on the filmography of him. I've got at a time list. I you did, But I want your choices now. No one else's You're not gonna Scott Hoffman this answer with my answer. I have one answer broken down into twenty six parts. No, we're not doing that.

54:26 Give me give me your. First power point. Already save it, he says, give me your first choice. My first choice is my absolute all time cannot be topped. Favorite of his movies, The sister movie to this Movivie Pans Labyrinth. What a weird and beautiful film. Oh my god, the Fawn. I love him so much. I love the Little Girl so much. I love all of it. That movie, to me is one of the perfect movies. Doug Jones, Let's let's be honest. Doug Jones is in practically every of Del Toro movies. Yes, did you do you know the the film by Doug Jones story?

55:11 Can I share it real quick? Yes? Okay? So, our wonderful friend Wayne Whited you know who, gives us the breakdown on the on the score of the film scores he's you know, one of the hosts of Phaser sets the stun fantastic guy. Awesome, awesome Wayne, And I'm not you know this is Wayne Wayne. Wayne will admit to this. He is not the uh, he's not the guy that's gonna be like, hey, give me a hug. You know, he's not that guy, right, you know, Wayne Old, if he sees you, if you're if you're a celebrity, Wayne's gonna come up and be like, hey, I thought you were a great in this movie and that movie, and you know the this episode Star Trek, this episode of Star Trek, and you know he's just gonna be cordial, right, yes, Uh, Doug Jones. I want to say it was MotorCity Comic a couple of years ago. Apparently Doug Jones is in one or more Star Trek, you know show episodes that he did. Right, Wayne's got this incredible Star Trek poster.

56:11 He's getting a sign and and apologies Wayne. You know, I know you're listening. Maybe it was Doctor Who was either Doctor Who or Star Trek, but Doug Jones is in one or both of them. And Doug Jones who is very friendly, very outgoing and very animated could not wait to wrap his arms around up Wayne and give him this big hug. And Wayne's just like, what's this happening? Now? I'm gonna tell you something. Doug Jones knew Wayne for a total of forty seven seconds and gave him this big embrace. I've known Wayne for like thirty years. I've never hugged him. Okay, So I know.

56:56 I thought I was an introvert until I met Wayne, and then. I was like, ahh. He's not Wayne uh Man, wonderful. He's the conversation on the road. Wayne. He's hilarious too. He is absolutely hilarious. But I'm just he came back and you know, he just had this dazed look at his face, and We're like, what what happened with Doug Jones. He's like he he hugged me. We're like what, Yeah? But yeah the fawn. Yeah, Wayne, Wayne got a big cuddly hug from the fawn. Okay, can I give you my first pick? Yes? Two thousand and four. You already mentioned it, so I'm jumping around with it.

57:38 Hell boy, Oh that's Liam's favorite. There you go, Okay, I'll give you a chance. There. Uh you talked about how he met Mike mcdola, you know, the the guy that created hell Boy, right, And one of my favorite stories is their step brother's moment where they met for the first time to discuss their choice for who the lead role should go to. And they did one of those all right, let's just say one two, yeah, one two, three, and they both said n at the same time. And I'll be honest, like, I know they've made I know a new hell Boy came out with a different actor, no offense. I don't know if it's any good because I haven't watched it, but it's because Ron Perlman is hell Boy. He always will be hell Boy.

58:24 I think Liam watched it and he said it was fine, but he agrees like the Ron Peerlman is that character and those both of he loves them. Both one and two. Yeah, I did. All the Golden Armies great too, but yeah. Enjoy the first. I haven't seen the second one, but I did enjoy the first one. Liam like tied me down, made me watch it, and I was like, oh, this is good. It's like supernatural Indiana Jones, Let's fight Nazis and and you know, I don't know, I love it. I could do it. We could do a whole episode on Hellboy, but we won't. We're gonna move on to your second pick, which is Crimson Peak. My second pick, Crimson Peak.

59:05 I've seen this movie so many times. I love that. I mean, it was an easy end because it was Del. Toro, so I was already and already, and then you had Tom Hddleston and I'm like, wow, I'm yeah, I. Will call this with you know, with all respect to Devil's backbone, this is his best ghost story. Crimson Peak is his best I think when it comes to ghost stories. Yes, yeah, okay, I agree, I agree. Go back listeners, go back. Check out our episode from a few seasons ago, Brad cos and I you know, that was our first Gielmo del Toro episode discussing Crimson Peak. As you know, Amber, I would tell you please don't listen to it because you're you're gonna be biased. You're just gonna be like, no, I know, I know more about Crimson Peak, and I hate this episode.

59:54 I could have done that. They didn't. They didn't know me what they should have, because I should have done this. One of these days when I get bored, I start George lucasing some of our older episodes. Yes, I'll I'll just interview you separately and then I'll weave you into the episode. There we go. It was like I say it the whole time exactly. Now, Crimson Peak is fantastic. Yeah, probably my favorite Tom Hillston performance that isn't Loki. Ah, what'd you say? What do you think? I really like the night Manager? So? Oh yeah, the night Managers. I talked about the Night Manager on the Crimson Peak episode because Brad had never seen it. Oh really, and I was like, dude, you've got to watch the Night Man Yeah, Crimson Peak is fantastic.

1:00:36 Yeah, it's so good. Okay, now we each got one more pick. And I told you before we were off, Mike, I told you. I was like, we're definitely going to connect on one, but I can't wait to see what your other two are. Now I didn't think. I didn't know if you had Crimson Peak and your your bag of tricks. So what is your third choice? Uh? The Academy Award winning the Shape. Of We Are Two for You Amber twenty seventeen, the Shape of Water Best Picture winner at the I think it was the ninetieth Academy Awards. Yeah, yeah, best Director, Like it's so good and I love that. He says that his favorite like of the classic monsters is Frankenstein and the Creature from the Black Logan. Yeah, and so we got the Creature from the Black Coucan and now we got Frankenstein coming up.

1:01:31 Yeah. Yeah, the Shape of Water. Like I watched this, I immediately couldnot wait to pop in Creature from the Black Klagoon. Yes, it's a that's a great double feature. Such a beautiful again, like like you like you talked about with Pants Labyrinth. It's it's a beautiful film, but it's so weird and so. Like it's a love story, but it's a love story. I'm watching you. You should be mortified and grossed out by this love story between this woman and this preacher, but you can't. You know, like the Creature gives off like et vibes, like you just want him to be okay, you wanted to be sick, you know. Michael Shannon, who is an absolutely amazing actor, right, yes, he's in the Shape of Water.

1:02:18 We're you know, we don't we don't. We don't like him, you know, he's he's the he's the villain. Yeah, but I hears something, He'll dig Michael Shannon, he should be sitting in that audience at the Academy Awards. He was actually at a bar in Chicago forgetting the name is like an alehouse, and he's sitting there in the bar alone, watching the Academy Awards on the TV. And the bartender, who obviously is a sinophile, he's got the Academy Awards on and not a ballgame or anything like that. He recognizes Michael Shannon and he's freaking out. He's like, Michael Shannon is sitting here watching the Academy Awards having a drink by himself, and the guy waited until after the show was over. The telecas you know, Michael Shannon watches del Toro win Best Director, he watches the film get Best Best Film, Best Picture, and then the guy said, hey, listen, can it Can I take a photo? Post it to Twitter?

1:03:21 And Shan's like, yeah, it's cool, like that is that's awesome? Like that's like yeah, I love stories like that. And to your point, you you were talking about del Toro earlier, at the top of the hour. You were talking about him saying, Hey, I maybe I should have given up you know when he had he had a miss here and there. Uh, he did, in fact, with the Shape of Water. He did an interview with National University of Mexico Television and he stated that had The Shape of Water been a box office bomb, he would have retired from directing because it was a very deep personal story for him and if it wouldn't have succeeded, he would have been done. He would have quit. So nothing like winning the Academy Award for Best Direction the Best Film to.

1:04:10 Renalidate your your life choices. Yeah, yeah, you okay, so you said Frankenstein. Uh this Friday. Amber, Jeff, Oh my god, you've. You've seen the trailer. You've you've watched it probably a dozen times. If this no, I don't want to see anything I saw. You haven't seen the trailer. I saw one like little teaser. Of like and it was just Oscar Isaac turning around looking intensely. Yeah. Speaking of sexy, Mi, a goth is also in Frankenstein. Yes, I saw. There's an ad for the movie. Tiffany and Company yep posted to Instagram because she wears this elaborate diamond necklace in the film.

1:04:58 I am so excited Franken's Stein is coming out to select theaters this Friday before its debut on Netflix on November the seventh, Amber, we got to watch that. We might have we can we do a we might have to do like a back to the box office on Frankenstein. You know, do like a fun little maybe an extended one, you know, if you're if we can sneak that in uh, Oscar Isaac, Yeah, Oscar Isaac, Jacob a lordie. I love when a tall, handsome actor decides that he's gonna be Frankenstein. On Oscar Isaac like cannot stop talking about him. He's like, when you guys see Jacob Elordi, you're gonna blow your mind.

1:05:39 Yeah, and let's not forget Christoph Waltz also showing that this yeah Victorian era Frankenstein's story that the trailer looks incredible. Amber, I can't believe you've got the willpower not to watch it. But movies coming out this week, so uh, A little fun fact about Frankenstein. Did you know that Jacob Elordi was not the first choice. No, Andrew Garfield was in fact cast in the role and had to drop out at the last possible minute. He had some scheduling conflicts. And here's the crazy thing. The FX team that's doing the makeup, the Frankenstein makeup. They spent nine months creating makeup for what the Andrew Garfield monster would look like, and when he dropped out, they had several weeks to start over from scratch and get it finished. For Jacob ELORDI, Oh my gosh, talk about working around the clock pressure. Yeah, because I don't know, you haven't seen anything, Okay, I won't spoil it, no, but.

1:06:49 I you know, Gama Deltara started doing special effects makeup, so the bar has to be set. So high because he knows everything there is to know about it. And as you mentioned, Frankenstein one of. His very stories vision. Yeah. Yeah, all right, Amber, here's where we we we have the fork in the road. Let's let's talk about the recommendation. Your recommendation for The Devil's Backbone. I think if you enjoy any of Germo del Torre's movies, you should watch this one. But don't expect, you know, Ghostbusters, because it's not it's deeper.

1:07:36 It's got a richer story. Uh. And and be prepared to watch it a couple of times. All right, I'll tell you I will give it a second chance at a later date, because it's del Toro and because you are the voice of reason and you're you're, you're, you're reasoning with me. But for for for my part right now, I gotta say I need my horror to have more ooze, less snooze. You know, this one's more drowsy than dreadful, Amber, And that's I'm just I'm just being honest. I mean, you know, everybody has their opinion.

1:08:18 Yeah, listeners, what's your opinion of the Devil's backbone? Have you seen this one? Is Amber Wright about this one? More often than not? She is? We'll see You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can check out the website to filmed by podcast dot com. Everything we got is there links to the Patreon if you're curious. Yes, weber if you want to hear, If you want to hear a lot of exclusive content that Amber Lewis has done, you know, from everything from like the nineteen eighty six series to like you know, request episodes. She's there. We're all there, yeah, and reminding you all welcome or reach out to us. You can. Uh, you can email us at a film by podcast at gmail dot com. Uh, there's a link on the website, so you can just go right there. Uh hit us up on our website. We'll we'll definitely uh we'll hit you right back. And if we share your questions, comment or concerns, uh, well, we'll read on the show possibly and if we do, we will definitely send you some a phone by swag.

1:09:32 We got the Amber. I'm sad to say that the color changing stadium cups are in very limited supply. There are must gone. Yeah, I've noticed you drinking out of yours. Uh yeah, yeah, it'll change the color of your margarita. The second you put that cup. Yeah, but uh yeah, the the original logos on there, they're they're about gone. But you know what, you email us, if we read on the show, we'll we'll save you one. We'll send you one. We got the stickers, we got the got the new shirts. The shirts. One's like so soft, it's so snaffed and snappy. Yeah, a secret. I'm like, hey, I changed the logo. Well, you know, no one gives a shit about the logo.

1:10:17 They're all like, this is the softest shirt every and it comes in purple. Yeah. Well it was a very limited run, the limited limited edition game in special. Yeah you got one. Well I got the gray one. There's purple on the gray one. Yeah. Yeah, that's good stuff. But uh, Amber, I do want to thank you for recommending Gielmo del Toro. Uh. He is without a doubt. I'm not gonna say he's the master. He's one of the masters of horror, but he is. He's one of the He's one of the masters of monsters that you that you can't help but fall for. Yes, we have just a few more episodes, uh to uh to share with you this month, a few more scary ones. Amber. I know you're not gonna be back for any more of the scary stuff this month, but I looked at the schedule for next month. No days off for Amber Lewis, you know, like.

1:11:18 You benched me all the fall, but then I'm in my right back. You will be here every Monday in November and you're hosting two, maybe maybe three episodes. Like you, you can be pretty busy. I know, I don't know what I'm gonna do with all my time off. Don't need me, but to. Make me sound like I know what the hell I'm doing. You always know what you're doing. You got I listen. You've got some great choices coming to our listeners in November. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spill what they are right now. They'll just have to come back and check it out. Yes, it's gonna be so much fun. There so at all of you out there listening to the show, following us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon.

1:12:04 Let me thank you. M m m m H m hm