Jack Sholder - The Hidden

0:00 So anyways, you got you got me thinking. And if I had to list my top five favorite films involving aliens, it would probably it would probably go something like The Thing, Aliens, Alien, They Live, and the nineteen seventy eight version of Invaders of the Body Snatchers. That's a good list now that yeah, now the Thing is aside from Body Snatchers, I definitely do not watch the others. In the month of October. So I guess, I guess the question is do alien films, and I mean I mean films involving aliens, do they have their place in in the month of October where our film choices are overcrowded with vampires and zombies and ghosts slashers. Dude, is there room for the for for alien movies in this month?

1:04 I mean why not? I mean, any aliens can work at any moth, right, and yeah, it just can be creepy, right, Well, I. You know, I think like Fire in the Sky will scare the hell out of you. Yeah, you know Event Horizon, which I guess technically isn't in an alien film, but it's it's out in space and it's dealing with. You know, some weird stuff that that scares the hell out of you. So yeah, it does. Well, Let's let's talk about an alien film. Let let's talk. Let's talk about a film by Jack Shoulder, talk about his nineteen eighty seven underrated sci fi crime thriller The Hidden.

2:11 Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm David Burns, and this is a film by Podcast. Welcome back to this month long look at films on the dark Side. We've already talked to were wolves and slashers and we're just getting started. This week. It's Alien Parasites, brought to you by our Patreon producer, James Buckley. That's right, thanks James, absolutely, thank you. James. James subscribes to our top tier on Patreon, which means, in addition to all the exclusive content in episodes as well as our cannot be purchased swag, he has the option to make occasional decisions on which episodes we put out this week. This one is brought to you by James Buckley. Dave tell the listeners a little bit about The Hidden.

3:05 An alien parasite takes control over regular citizens throughout the city and goes on a murderous crime spree. As it moves from person to person. FBI agent Lloyd Gallagher joins Detective Beck on the case, which leads them down a path to come head to head with the extra Treshield that is behind all of this chaos. But as we discover, there is more to Agent Gallagher than we realize. First time watch for me and me, I don't know about you, but immediately I'm sensing Friday the thirteenth, the Final Friday. So when I watched this film, first off, I want to say thanks James, and I hope more people will follow suit with him because some of these movies I would never think about. Some of these movies I would never see if somebody hadn't recommended them to us. So I really appreciate that that we get to go down this road of seeing this movie because I never would have it wasn't for James. So the way I look at this movie, it's a buddy cop meets invasion, the body Snatchers meets Terminator meets Jason goes to Hell meets the Thing.

4:16 Yeah, okay, that's accurate. That's that is every every title you just mentioned fits into this movie. And this is nineteen eighty seven, So with exception to body snatchers. I kind of feel like cribin jack shoulder just a little bit. Uh. I don't know. I didn't know what to expect mean, and some of your some of your text messages, you're like, what this isn't a horror film. I'm like, what. Does it have to do a zombies or what's they have to do with? Because I hadn't seen it, and you know, I I had a little bit of relief as I text you. I was like, hey, I'm I'm turning on right now, and you said, hey, this this turned out really good. This turned out great. I'm glad that we watched this one.

5:01 So it's it's an interesting film, Jeff, because when you're first watching this movie, you get wrapped up it pretty quick. But then it starts getting a little strange. You know, Okay, where are we going? Where we're going with this? And then you go down another path that okay, it starts getting action packed and full of like suspense and get you on the edge of your seat. So by that point in the film, I was really involved with the story at that time, and after I had texted you that stuff, I realized, wait, bit, this is actually I've been glued to this TV screen wanting to know what's going to happen on how this is going to end. But there are a couple of surprises in this film, and I'm sure we'll get to them a little bit later that I didn't realize that we're in this film, But we'll get to that. But yeah, it was. It was a fun movie.

5:45 It really was. The way this opens. Uh, We open with CCTV footage of a bank robbery that quickly escalates into a bank massacre. Yeah, and before you can even catch your breath, we're in this incredible car chase and a. Shootout with the cops. It's before the shootout with the cops, this guy mows down several people, including a guy in a wheelchair who just ricochets. Off the car. And and at that point, I'm like, I don't care how scary this is or how bad this is. I just got my money's worth in this opening scene with the with the bank, the bank massacre and the car chase and the cops shootout.

6:32 Yeah, it totally pulls you in because you want to know what's going on. Because first off, you've got this regular cct footage going on, just watching people go about their business in this bank, and then that dude just starts shooting the gun. And then when he gets done, he looks up to the camera and just gives that creepy ass smile. Man, Yes he does. Yeah, Dave, let's talk about this cast, because I have to admit, for a nineteen eighty seven film of this nature, I was actually impressed. Michael Nori plays Detective Tom Beck. Now, I you know, being a being a fan of eighties films, I recognized him from Flash Dance from nineteen eighty three. Yellowstone fans will quickly recognizing. Let me tell you about a decision that this guy makes that is just going to alter his life, which could be for the worst, you could argue, you know. He Let's be fair, he's had a very prolific television career. He's had a lot of TV films and TV shows. This guy has a choice, Dave. He does in nineteen eighty In nineteen eighty seven, Jack Shoulder says, I want you to play this detective.

7:53 In The Hidden And meanwhile. There's another film that's setting up shop in Los Angeles, and. He is offered and turns down the role of Martin Riggs in lethal weapon. Ouch, that movie is not going to go any work yet? Are you talking about movie? You know, I don't know what Michael Norrey was thinking that day, but you think at least wouldn't you think at least like, Okay, Jack Shoulder versus Dick Donner. Who do I want to work for? Probably Dick Donner. He's like a record like you would unbelieve. Yeah, right, like you know, I know where I know.

8:35 I don't want to step on Jack Schulder's filmography. But no, he's not Richard Donner at this point in his career or will he ever be. So this blows my mind. When I when I found that out, I was like, wow, dude. And I did not know that until I started researching this film. And like when I saw that, my jaw dropped. Was like, what Yeah, tough break for Michael Glory. But I do, I do? I do like his work. I'm watching it, you know, my second second time I watched it. Now I'm watching it as could this guy have been Riggs? And we get a totally the pod Riggs. Yeah, we get a totally different lethal weapon if he's Riggs. Oh yeah, and and one that's not gonna spawn a franchise in my opinion.

9:16 So here again, let's go to that blockbuster that Scott Hoffman always talks about. We put those other movies in a different world. Maybe that's one of them. The alternate Universe Video Store where Michael Nor is starring in Lethal Weapon. Let's tell cal McLachlan he's an FBI. Well he's he claims to be an FBI agent named Gallagher, right, yep? Is he just? Is he finding his way here to prepare for Twin Peaks, where he's gonna basically be the same character I think, with exception, with exception to the the big secret's hiding obviously. But right, I think so because it wasn't long after this he got that role on Twin Peaks, Right.

9:59 There's like three years later. Yeah, he's playing an FBI agent on Twin Peaks. Yeah, so maybe this was like his audition for that role. This is think about this. This is a year after he does Blue Velvet in nineteen eighty six, which which we covered with the Dayton Johnson. And Dune wasn't too far before this, right. Dune was I want to say that was eighty four eighty four? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, And for those fans who have watched the Fallout Amazon series that was just released recently. He's got a big role in that one too. Oh does he? I still got to check that out. Oh it's so good, all right. I like I liked what McLaughlin's doing here because he starts off. I don't like him at first, because he's acting like a smug you know, he's kind of an asshole.

10:46 Kind of got a corn cob up the butt. Yeah yeah, I mean he's really stiff boy, stiff boarded here man. Yeah, you don't like this guy at all. No, no, but he grows on you. He grows on you. He definitely grows on you without the the film. Love what he's doing here. I'll tell you who grows on you, Claudia Christian. So she's one of my surprises here. I mentioned that a little bit earlier, that there are two surprises in this film for me. She's okay, So Claudia Christian playing Brenda the Stripper. I was, I don't I don't recognize her. She looks familiar, but I don't know her. But this is are you? Are you? Are you? Is this a pleasant surprise for the obvious reason? Or do you have. Do you know something about Claudia Christian that I don't know?

11:28 I know Claudia Christian. I've met Claudia Christian. I have autographs from Claudia Christian. Are you serious? Yeah? I'm serious. What anyone who's a big sci fi fan knows? She has Lieutenant Lieutenant Commander Susan Ivanova from Babylon five. Ah? Okay, because see I never watched Babylon five. I know you didn't. But if Wayne's listening to this, you could be like, who that hear is? Jeff Dave, having having met and shared oxygen with Claudia Christian, is she as lovely in person? Absolutely? She is? Honestly, you know how we all do these conventions and and I started going to convention years and years ago.

12:09 She was my very first convention experience. Jeff, Interesting, Claudia Christian is your first? She is? I you could have done a lot worse, sir. I could have writ. Let's talk, let's talk. Catherine Cannon is playing Tom's wife Barbara. The second she comes, she walks into the dining room, I'm like, is that that's Donna's mom from Beverly Hill's done to two? And oh yeah, I'm right, isn't that her? Yeah, okay, that's her, all right. I don't know her from anything else. I just she has one of those those faces, like, you know, the second she looks worried about about Michael Nory, I was like, yeah, I've seen her give that look to Donna before.

12:52 I know that look. I know that look. Yeah. I meant I mentioned her just because again she's quickly quickly recognizable as h as Donna's mom. But yep, we got a couple of other folks in. Here, three three that I want to talk about. Dave, and I know one had to make you very happy, at least as happy as I was, So I'll save him. I'll save him for last. But we got we got Clue Gallagher. Goliger. Yep, Gooliger. You guys just talked about him. Not too long ago. He was in the Force of One. He played Dune. Yeah, this guy, it's it's a I love. I love seeing careers like this where he he has like this long, amazing career and then he kind of some might say he's fading into obscurity, but he he chooses to start doing all these like low budget horror films and sci fi movies, and when you look at his pholmography, he's he's kind of showed up in several big franchises.

13:56 Yeah, I mean he was mister Walshton I right, Elm Street two, which is connected this director, which will later, but yeah, yeah. Then we got Edo Ross is on the is on the force this guy again, you know, just sticking it to to Michael Norri because Edo Ross is in lead the Weapon I'm just wondering, like they're in the Commissary at lunchtime. He's like, dude, I've been over on the lead the weapon set and you have made a mistake. We are We're having such a good time over there. But I always love I always love seeing Edo Ross. He's he's fun. And then we've got Friday the thirteenth Royalty in just a blinking you miss it role, but playing one of the agents.

14:42 Ted White, Ted White, yep, Ted White, Dave. Possibly, I say possibly because it's hard to it's hard to pick one. Possibly one of my favorite, if not my favorite, one of my favorite actors that have. Played the role of Jason Borhees. He did it. I know it's tough. He did it in Friday thirteenth the final chapter, which how great was that? You and I just a while back we got to go see the fortieth. Anniversary on the big screen. We got to watch that on Friday thirteenth, Of all days. We get to see it on Friday thirteenth. That was I just man, what a happy day that was? Yes, it was. But and Ted White, you know, we we we kind of briefly mentioned him when we covered Starman, Dave. I know you and I discussed. I'm sure we'll talk about him a little bit more coming up in December. You and I kind of are planning on doing like a little Starman retrospective.

15:36 Right we are. Yep, I'm looking forward to that. More Ted White, More Ted White on the way coming soon. Yeah. And then I got to mention this one because this one just made me chuckle. Yeah, Jake the dog playing Rory the dog. Roy. Do you know this is kind of like one of those things like like Night of the Creeps where we're doing with this like alien insect looking parasite thing, right, that's body hopping, right, and sometimes a viable human being is not not available. You got to jump into a dog, right, Yeah? Of course you do? Do you know, uh do you know I mentioned Jake Jake the Dog. He was an another famous horror film.

16:22 No, please enlighten us. Do you remember the beginning of Nightmare on Elm Street four The Dreammaster where the dog comes up and pisses on Freddy's like final resting place, and it kind. Of yeah, I do know that? Is that the same dog? It's the same dog. And I was like, I'm looking, I'm looking through the creds. It's like, wow, Jake, Jake the Dog gets a credit and he's got his own IMDb dB page. Okay, what's he done? This is the dog that brought Freddy Krueger back to life all right in uh in the dream Maaster? So good, good, good job Jake, Good job Jake. Oh Man. So aside from Jake the Dog, is there am I missing anybody? Is there anyone you want to want to shout out?

17:04 Yeah? Yeah, there's actually two people in here. One of them is that. One of them is the second one that I want to talk about. Was the surprise for this movie. Oh okay, and I'll save that one for last. The first one that I want to talk about. And at first I kept looking at her and I'm like, where do I know where from and then it finally dawn on me. It's Lynn Shay, who plays Carol Miller in this one. She is the assistant to the Senator. She is from the Insidious films. Obviously you have seen those. Yeah, yeah, oh, Lynn Shay, wife of Bob Shay, who's producer on this film. She has got an amazing career. But I'm and and with all due respect to to lynch Say, I can't not think of her as the terrifying and grotesque landlord from a Kingpin.

17:51 Oh yeah, oh god, yeah, I always thinking of it. Every time I think of Lynchay, I think that first. But yeah, oh yeah, you're right. I totally I totally missed one. Yeah, I kept seeing her. I'm like, is that her? And sure enough it is. It's Lynn Shay Lynchay. Yeah, yeah, who else you got? So the last one they've got is Danny trejo is in this film. Well, no, I would have wrecked. I would have. I would have. I don't know how you missed him. He is in the jail cell. Oh and he gets shot because he made. Yeah he's the guy that he's so young, Dave he is, But that's Dandy Treo how did I Okay, Yeah, Danny Treo in The Hidden, he was hidden in The Hidden.

18:34 Young, Yeah, young Danny Treo. He was this I think this is back when he was probably going by Daniel Treo. But this movie's full of you see. Yeah, this film is jam packed with a who's who of uh of the eighties and nineties talent and current current talent, current talent. Ye, Dave, Let's take a quick break, and when we return, I definitely want to talk a little bit about this film's background, and we got to talk about some of these scenes actually are the pivotal moment. Welcome back, Dave and I are discussing nineteen eighty seven's The Hidden, brought to you by a. Patreon producer, James Buckley, who chose this feature for us to discuss. Dave.

19:21 I'm gonna I don't you know, I don't know if I'm saying his name correctly, but Jim Kuf is the screenwriter of nineteen eighty five Secret Admirer, which is a Jason Colvin favorite. Starring d Wallace going d wall. So he writes that and then he switches genres to write the screenplay for The Hidden with the with every intention of directing it. The studio, however, has different ideas. They turn him down, so he moves on to another project, and I you know, that being the screenplay for Steakout, so you know, and after Steakout he would go on to write nineteen ninety eight Rush Hour and two thousand and four's National.

20:04 Treasure, So I think he made that. Okay, He's definitely like this project. Yeah, yeah, But Jack Shoulder gets the script, he wants to expand on the theme of what it means to be human. He gives it a rewrite, focusing on the Gallagher character, and that kind of pulls the story out of the generic action film that I think we initially had. I gotta tell you, when you know the DNA that's in this movie, it makes me like it even more. It does. At first you think it's this generic sci fi film, but the when you're watching it and the more you dig into it, it becomes something more than that.

20:44 So and it really pulls you into the film. So, yeah, you're right. When you learn more about the background, you do appreciate a lot more. And I'm happy to say that while I'm doing my research, I'm digging up information about this film I'm not finding a lot about the making of the movie, but I am finding a lot of reviews that are positive. I mean, this, this this movie had. I mean, it was pretty successful when it did come out, you know. I think it did like nine or nine or ten million dollars. And it's a it's. The weird situation where it's a cult classic, but it was a popular movie before it became a cult classic. Right, you know, which happened when you think no.

21:27 I mean, it's one of those things where I think it I think it gets rediscovered once we hit the video store era of history, and then people are. Like, oh, hey this. You know, you see a cool cover, you know, cool box art cover, and then you just picked it up. You didn't even read the back of the box to know if it was good, you know. And this has got a this has got a great uh cover art, It's got you know, film poster or whatever you want to call it. I mean, if I saw this at the theater, I would have been like, yeah, I'm just buying the ticket. I don't need to see the preview. What surprises me is how I missed this movie because I mean, when when we got it recommended to us, and I kind of went and checked out the poster was like, I kind of recognized that poster. But I don't know how this passed me up, because there was days where I would just go to the video store and just check out tons of like sci fi stuff, even if I didn't know what it was, and I'd go home and just spend the whole weekend you know, popcorn, pizza, whatever and watching movies. I don't know how this one escaped me, Jeff, I really don't.

22:26 I'm at a loss because I feel like I saw everything. From the nineteen eighties. Yeah, and clearly and clearly I didn't. I can tell you this, you know, talking with James Buckley said, hey, you know you've got several we got several options for you, and you let us know. And he kind of he fired off several titles. I immediately knew what they were. Immediately had I could tell him like, yep, I've seen him. But then when he says the Hidden, I said the Hidden, Like. Okay, sure, I mean I was intrigued, right, but I was also like, how could I miss this, especially when someone is such a fan of it? Right right? Yeah, I'll tell you one thing, if you listen to our Top five Courtroom Movies where James actually joined us on the show, you'll know that he is a drummer in a rock band called Hidden Tracks. He is very talented, very talented Louisiana rock band. And when you think of the soundtrack for this movie. As I'm watching the movie, I'm like, you know what, I get it. I understand why someone like James is liking this movie more so.

23:36 It's pretty I mean, it's pretty damn good for you know, there's a lot of a lot of bands I had not heard of, but I liked the music because it's like, throughout this whole thing, you're getting like an eighties hair metal rock soundtrack, right, but it features three songs from Concrete Blonde, and I was a fan of Concrete Blonde, so I, you know, I it's like, wow, I didn't know that they had ever done soundtrack work, but they've got three songs on this soundtrack. They've got Still in Hollywood, Your Haunted Head, and over your Shoulder, Dave. I'd like to hear my favorite Louisiana rock band, Hidden Tracks, cover all three of them, honestly. So that's my challenge, I know, you know, David.

24:17 You know James is listening to this so oh yeah, so James, uh, you better get the band together. And it's been thrown out, James, you got to do it now, buddy, I'm sorry. He's probably chucklate going. That's in our lineup already. We always do cog Yeah, probably, I'll look I'll look forward to their uh you know, him dropping a performance on their on their social media. This does bring up something that I really want to talk about. Okay, So this alien who's in this human body, Yeah, he loves this style of music and always has to have it blaring no matter where he's at. He has to have a Ferrari at all times, right, and then he realizes what he's missing in the third is a woman.

24:58 Yeah, Ala explains. When this guy sees something he likes, he takes it, and anyone that gets in his way he kills. And they're like, oh yeah, we got a missing red Ferra. Yeah, he likes it. He likes red ferraris. Okay, what about hold on before we talk about the music, can we talk about this, uh, this cocaine car dealership where the when the alien takes where you know, he steals the red the Red Ferrari. So he's buying a vehicle. This this this guy customer is buying a vehicle from when the alien shows up, and they they go into sign the paperwork and they're doing coke as they're doing signing the paperwork.

25:42 The car salesman is drawing up the paperwork and the guy is cutting up, you know, cutting up cocaine on the mirror, and I'm like, what hold on is he We're not in the bathroom. We're we're actually in the guy's office just doing blow while. We anybody walked through the door, you know. And anybody did they walked in and said, yeah, the alien, I want the keys, I want the car. Yeah. I don't understand it, man. All I all I know is buying cars in Los Angeles, and in nineteen eighty seven was a good time. Apparently it was not just buying the car, but you're gonna get additional things with it.

26:25 Yeah, there's there's a there's a signing bonus. Uh so yeah, he he steals, he's stealing, uh tape cassettes in this record store, takes the ghetto blaster just walks out. How pissed are you if you're sitting in the diner trying to enjoy your scrambled eggs and bacon. And this guy ringhil air. Yeah, all the customers are looking like upset about it, right, but they're sitting there, they're they're just taking it. I'm like, I don't get that. I don't get that at all. Until the one waitress finally realizes you probably should say something, and it's what's a love the waitress they goes, it's your table, honey, don't look at me. Don't look at me. So I got another question here. So I'm curious. Is that the same ghettabuster from Star Trek four?

27:11 It must be. It has to be, right, that is exactly. I'm pretty sure that's the same model. It's gotta be, man, It's it's solid. It's like, that has to be the same one, come on, or at least the same model, right. I kind of I kind of feel like if you're if they're selling that in nineteen a seven at like Circuit City, they're like world's most annoying ghetto blaster. Yeah, are you a creep? Do you want to piss people off? This is the radio for you. Let's talk. Let's talk a couple of scenes you know, we mentioned that, we mentioned the shootout with the cops at the beginning, the bank, bank massacre, the record store, the diner. What else comes to mind for you? Some stuff that you enjoyed it and don't don't cheat and say, Uh, Klaudia Christian on the on the stage.

27:57 I was gonna sa Klaudia Christian in that red dress. Who well, that red dress. But can I just wait, did you hear? I know, I don't know if you saw this, but that that red dress leaves little to the imagination. Yes, in the back of it. I read something, uh from Claudia Christian where she said, evidently producers were not overly impressed with what she had going on up up up front, right, so they add they they had the costume designers, uh, enhance her outfits. That that'll that'll focus on on the backside a little bit more.

28:38 Yeah, And that came straight from Claudia Christian too. Did it. You're you're you're the one that hung out with her, so he would he would know. But yeah, yeah, okay, but yeah, I digress. Uh. You know what what see is some of the scenes that stood out for you. There's so later on in this scene, one of the ones I absolutely loved is when Back and Gallagher were chasing him up the steps to the top of that roof, or chasing Hurt up to the top of that roof. This is where they kill Claudia Christian's character and the bullets she takes here, and that's when Beck kind of realizes but still doesn't understand what's going on here, and you know, just Gallagher just fills with bullets but yet and then he pulls out that weird alien pistol thing whatever, yeah, and then like aims it at her, you know, to try to get ready to let when it comes out of her body. And then obviously that doesn't happen. That whole sequence there I think kind of helped Beck's character turn a little bit because, as you know, they're going to arrest Gallagher after that scene, because Beck still doesn't know what's going on until they get to the police station, and you know, other things, other events happened, but that one really sticks out to me. Besides the jail fight.

29:49 That jail fight was incredible, but we'll get to that a little bit. But I love that rooftop scene. Well, it's it's action packed. There's a lot of tension and it shot really well. You know, this is night I thought. I thought the the lighting, the camera angles, everything works in that in that shot. Absolutely loved it. Even before that, before they go up the steps, you get that creepy music when they go into that room with all those mannequins. You know what I'm talking about. Man Ah, that music was like, It's like, holy crap, this is really getting creepy right here, and it did. I gotta I gotta tell you, I got a thing. I don't know if it's a phobia, but I don't care for mannikins. I don't. I don't care for a lot of them lump together.

30:30 And anytime you see that, I'm just like, nope, no thank you, no thank you, Nope. But uh, the guy that shot this, uh, Jacques height Heideken. I think I'm saying his name right. You gotta remember this is the guy that did the cinematographer a nightmare on Elm Street in nineteen eighty four. Makes sense, and and he would do he he he comes back for a nightmare. M Street too. He's revenge, which we'll we'll get to. I think he's got a fantastic guy. I love I love I absolutely love his work. So what about you, Well, one that I'm gonna I'm gonna mention just because I want to warn our listeners. Uh.

31:11 You know you you always love having your snacks when you watch a movie. You love watching a Maybe maybe you're eating dinner while you're watching this. Uh maybe maybe don't do that at least and until like the first thirty minutes is over, because when we get the shot in the hospital of this this alien transferring itself from one body, one used up body, to a new body. Wasn't ready for that, Dave, because at this point you're like, well, who, what's the alien look like? And I'm gonna ahead and tell you listener when it when a normal guy opens his mouth and like this insect like parasite larva thing starts, you know, working its way out of the guy's mouth into the open mouth of the other unconscious guy.

32:08 I was just a ghast. I was like, ah, turn it away, Dave. I was like, I'm like, you know what, I'm not hungry anymore. I didn't even finish dinner that my first time watching this. I was like, I'm done. I don't I don't want to eat. Now to the audience. Yeah, it's right, dude, it's it's gross. It's absolutely gross. It's spectacular though, And uh I did some digging. Do you know who's responsible for that? No, David's none other than Greg Nikoto and Robert Kertzman, who we met. Holy CRP are you serious? Yes, Burger's Burger's not listed with them, but this is this is early work by h. Kurtzman and Nicoto And wow, yeah, we I mean we've we've we've hung out with Robert Kurtzman.

32:56 We talked to Robert Kurtzman, we have Yeah. Well, yeah, all very cool. Well I would love to get him on an. Episode with us. But yeah, so when you when you look at the makeup, the special effects for this, I mean it holds up. It holds up now, like I didn't feel like, oh this is a dated eighties movie. You could feel it. Like I said that that that transfer scene from body to body. Was just it was hard. Yeah, hard to get through. You know, Well, they did their job then when that happens, right, they did. They absolutely did. Yep. Uh, let's talk pivotal scene. Is there something what would you what would you say is the pivotal moment in this movie?

33:38 For you, I think when Beck goes to get Gallagher out of the jail cell is a pivotal scene to me. That's that's the the moment when Beck Beck finally realizes, oh crap, I was wrong and he was mad enough to go get him out. You know, Okay, that's a great moment. That's absolutely a good moment. How about you. I'm gonna go earlier, and for me, it's gonna be dinner at the Becks m when he invites him in and they have there's always like it's a it's kind of a cliche in buddy cop movies where the the loan cop or the the on edge cop gets to come home to the family cops like you know, this is what normal life looks like and have to stay for dinner. I feel like in that moment, we get a better under understanding of Gallagher's background and and we fully understand his motives for going after this this this evil alien creature thing.

34:33 Yeah, because you. Know we at this point we're like, well, yeah, he killed my partner and that's why I'm after him. But then. You know, you get that moment where he's kind of locking eyes with their little girl and like it's kind of like a soft moment, and then you you know, well, you know I had a wife, I had a child, and you know they were killed by the guy i'm after, who also killed my partner. And then you're like, damn, this is this is this guy's tragic, you know, but it's and it's a it's your first hint that maybe Gallagher isn't who he says he is. You know, maybe he's not just some FBI agent, because he when when Donna's mom is like, well, where are you from? And he's like he just points up. Yeah, he's having like a Jeff Bridges Starman kind of a moment where he just doesn't know how to act, apparently, and then she's like, well where like and he's he says, what do you say, like Ralston something or something weird? Yeah, Raahauston or something like that. And then it's like some star and some other galaxy, but yeah, that's where you Because I'm all of a sudden it clicked for me, I'm like, wait a minute, obviously the bad guy is like some body hopping alien creature. And now I know that this guy is obviously some kind of otherworldly entity because he's he's after him doing the same thing.

35:52 I dig it. I it is good stuff. Dave. Let's take one last break and when we come back we will talk Jack Shoulder's filmography. Sounds good. Welcome back, Dave. I got a couple couple fun facts about Jack Shoulder for you, and and an interesting quote about. His his work. So it might it might surprise you to know that he is an accomplished classical trumpet player. Interesting As a film editor, he worked on the Academy Award nominated documentary King from Montgomery to Memphis, and he also won an Emmy for his work on three two one Contact. Now, this guy he kind of he always idolized Wes Craven like he wanted to be up. You know when when when he looked at like the directors that he wanted to to emulate, he he was looking at Wes Craven.

36:51 But talking about his, uh, his attitude towards violence and horror films, he says, I was ever a hardcore slasher kind of guy. I never wanted to humiliate people or inflict pain just for the sake of inflicting pain, or do or do horrible effects just to see how gross I could possibly be keep in mind again the insect larva going from. Right. But yeah, let me let me but he says that never really interested me that much. Yeah, I mean, I'm with him up until he's talking about how gross he could possibly because because if he can be grosser than the alien larvae larva creature, I'm good.

37:38 I don't need. I don't need, I don't need anymore. No thanks. I will say about his photography, Jeff, there's like two things on this list I've seen. Well, let's let's talk about this philmography, because, to be fair, he has done a lot of the the majority of his work is in television. He's done a lot of TV episodes, has done a lot of TV movies. But he us have some good work here. Let's talk. Nineteen eighty two, he does his feature film debut called Alone in the Dark. I have not seen this, and I'm telling you right now we need to see this film. Did you look this one up? You know what? You know what it's about. It's like another killer, isn't it? Like in a hockey mask?

38:20 I think? Yeah, So okay, so listen to this because this blew my mind. I was like, and again, Dave, you're going to say to yourself, wait, how did we never watch this? How did we never see this? This is nineteen eighty two, keep in mind, and yes you got a hockey masked killer, and it's all about a mental patient breaking out of a asylum during a power outage and then going after their new doctor's house who they think killed their previous doctor. Doctors played by Jack Palance Donald Pleasance. What yeah, I mean any got Martin Landau as like one of the creepy creepy uh mental patience that's already man, this man?

39:09 How could we have missed this one? I have no idea, but I'm I'm looking it up. I'm gonna go see it now. I'm going to do Yeah, I'm using the just watch app to find it and figure out how we can get ahold of this one. Must watch, especially with that cast man. Yeah no kidding. Nineteen a five he heads to Elm Street as he does a nightmare on Elm Street to Freddy's revenge. Wow. Oh yeah, I hope you've seen this one. Yeah, he's talking about Robert England. He said he was one of the most brilliant he said, one of the most brilliant things that Wes Craven ever did was cast Robert England because people always cast some lunk to play the killer, whereas Robert England is not a big scary guy. He's a guy with an interesting, almost funny face, and he's a terrific actor.

39:57 Absolutely right. I agree with what's your thoughts on on Freddy's Revenge? Like when you look at when you yeah, when you look at like the entire elm Street franchise, where would you? Is this a top three? Is this a I don't know if I put it on the top three, dude, he wouldn't. No, maybe maybe four, but I don't know. It was really hard to live up to the original man, as we all know, you know, And I guess you really can't judge it that way because we do that a lot with sequels. But in the end we still have to do it that way because it needs to get at least as close to as on par as the original. And I believe isn't it the second one where they really started going funny with Freddie?

40:43 This third one, third, so Dream Warriors is where they start. Freddie starts using like the one liners. Okay, that's the third Okay, the third one was. Yeah, the second one, he's still like they're filming him in the shadows and they're they're kind of they're keeping him kind of hidden. I mean, you could argue, you like his line when he tells Jesse like he needs his help and he says, you've got the body, I've got the brain. You could argue that's that's a little bit, you know, going on to the catchphrase style. But I gotta say, man, I still think it's one of the scarier Freddy Krueger movies, especially Like think about the pool scene, the pool party where he's he does it, He's got his hands up, you know, and funny, funny fact Jack Shoulder had a hard time filming that scene. He just thought it was too funny, which I don't understand. I don't understand Jack's shoulders humor.

41:36 Either, because that's not funny. I think it's one of the scary moments in the in the in the film. But yeah, I don't know. I'm a fan of Freddy's Revenge, and it leads me to ask this question on Prime did you ever see In twenty nineteen, they did a documentary called Scream Queen. My Nightmare on Elm Street Did you ever see that? I did not. You gotta see it. It's you will watch it, and then you will look at Nightmare on Elm Street two in a whole new way. It's the actor Mark Patton, who played Jesse, the main character. It's a documentary that he put together that examines the homo erotic subtext in the film. And when I first saw it was recommended to me, and I.

42:23 Was like, is he todd? What this is? There's what is there? Isn't you watch this documentary. And you're like, whoa, There's some other stuff going on in Freddy's Revenge that I was not aware of. It's good. It's a great documentary. Don't get me wrong. It is a great documentary. I recommend it. If you haven't seen it, it's on Prime, don't check it out. Definitely, definitely worth a watch. We've been talking about the Hidden and then in nineteen eighty nine he does a movie that I really dig. Did you ever see Renegades? No? You didn't see Renegades with Keifer Suttlin and lou Diamond Phillips. I did not. Oh man, Yeah, the young guns are getting back together. It's awesome.

43:04 It's kind of like a buddy a buddy cop style movie, but it also feels I don't know if I might lose you here. I hope not. But it also feels a little. Like Firewalker, Okay, because. They're going after this like this, this magic Native American spear. No, I'm still doing Earth, so you're not losing me here, Okay. Okay, And you know what, even if I was starting to lose you, I'm about to get you back full full go. Also stars Jamie Gertz, who's like the fem fatale in the movie. This is This is mid to late eighties Jamie Gertz, so you know it's it's prime, It's peak Jamie Gertz, Right. Great Renegades is fun Keifer.

43:44 His mustache is great Lou Diamond Phillips, just just Lou Diamond Phillipping all over this movie. It's awesome. I like Renegade's so let's check it out. Check it out. Nineteen ninety nine. This I'm starting to see like this is the guy when you need to do a sequel to your popular horror film, you just call him up. Because in nineteen ninety nine he does wish Master too. Evil Never Dies. Are you a fan of the Wishmaster films. Yes, but I only saw the first one. So you're a fan of the Wishmaster. Film, right, not the film, that's correct. I'm surprised because not only are they good, and you gotta remember our buddy Anselmolninsky was in the third one.

44:27 Yep, wish Master two. I'm gonna give you my hot take. I think it's better than the first one. Really, this is well, So the the. How do you say it? Gin? Can I believe? Yeah? Yeah, So the Gin ends up going to prison. He's at it like this. This girl kind of opens opens him up, and you know, if she does her three wishes, the apocalypse happens. But meanwhile he needs like a thousand more souls, and somehow he gets into prison and it's just carnage. It's awesome. Absolutely, it would recommend that one. Dave. Now two thousand, I don't want to say a whole lot about this because I started to go down a rabbit hole on this next feature and I immediately thought, Dave, clearly, we need to cover this, like give it a we need to give this movie it's its own episode. But in two thousand he does uncredited work directing super Nova do you remember that one with the James Spader.

45:25 I've seen it, but I don't honestly remember the story or anything like that. But he had uncredited work on this. Yeah, So all right, I'm just gonna I'm gonna tease this up a little bit for you, okay, just because I don't want to there's gonna be so much for us to talk about, but listen to this. So I'm looking at his filmography. I was like, Oh, uncredited director, that's odd. And then when you start to you start to look at super Nova. This was actually a film that Walter Hill was directing. Oh, things went sideways and uh, what's our favorite what's our favorite at phrase in Hollywood? Creative differences? Yeah, Walter Hill walks off the project. He's a little pissed. They pull in Francis Ford Coppola to pick up the pick up the directing duties and take over, which I was like, what Walter Hill and Francis Ford Coppola worked on super Nova And when Copola had some creative differences, they ended up bringing Jack Shoulder in and just said, can you just please just finish this thing for us and you can.

46:32 Help us out. And I started looking there's so many stories like people or you know, Walter Hill has some choice words about it. Copola has said some stuff about it. Jack Shoulder said some things about this movie. James Spader is on record talking about the making this movie. So I'm you know, it's it's streaming on Pluto by the way, the Roku channel. So I'm ready to watch Super and Ova again just to just to see, like, wait, was it. I remember liking it when I saw it, you know, I remember like that tunney. Yeah, it's yeah, hold on, let. Me see A deep space rescue and recovery spaceship with a crew of six receives a distress call from a mining operation three thousand light years away. A rescue operation via a dimension jump is made, which is a bad idea. Yeah, and again Hill, he just didn't want it to be like Alien, right, and he felt that there was a lot of stuff that he saw that, you know, because he was a producer on Alien, so he wanted some changes.

47:30 And when they're like, no, we like what we're doing here, he's like, okay, well then see you later. Yeah. But there's so much to talk about this movie, and I don't want to. I don't want to turn this into a super nova podcast. But that is definitely we have to go down that avenue on that one. But yeah, uh, our guy Jack Schulder just jumping in to pick up the reins of not one, but two legendary directors. So I think that's pretty amazing. That is. I don't think we're going to see another film from this guy. It's been a while. Obviously it's been twenty five years, but I will I will tell you this. When you talk about what's next, let's talk about what's. Next for us. So they made for us, well, they made a sequel in nineteen ninety three called The Hidden Two. Evidently the alien from the first film laid some eggs which have now hatched. And Beck's daughter, remember the little girl, the cute little girl, I do. Yeah, Well, now she's a grown up and she's a cop and she's working with the good alien to stop several of these hatched the parasite larvae creatures. Clearly they did not they could not have this is director video. They could not afford comicclaughlan to come back and reprise his role. So you got someone playing Gallagher, you know, you got a different guy playing Gallagher.

48:47 But I'm curious because everyone everyone that And here's the funny thing. Everyone that loved the Hidden hated the sequel. Oh boy, so you're right there then, like now I just want to see you know now, I just want to see it just so I can I could be among them, right, yeah, Dave? What are your thoughts on this one? Do you do you recommend this one? Yes? Absolutely, it's it's you know when it starts to go and get a little weird, stick with it. It's a good movie. You'll enjoy it, Yeah, I think. I think if you enjoy sci fi horror, if you enjoy eighties films, if you like pre Twin Peaks, Comicclachlan, it's a good one. You know. I one time watch maybe you know, maybe I'll watch it again here and there, but uh, I don't know.

49:33 I enjoyed it overall. I enjoyed it. Where'd you watch this one? I writted this on Amazon? Okay me too? Yeah? Yeah, not streaming anywhere. I feel like this is something when you're watching this, don't you? Aren't you? I don't know about you, But I was sitting there kind of a little pissed, like why am I not watching this? On too Be Free with Ads exactly. This is a perfect movie for two. It feels really too beish. It does no offense to the movie because it's a good movie. But no, h listen, I I'm on record is Loving to Be Like you can find everything on to Be and it's one of the It's one of the only spots where I'm happy to watch, you know, free with Ads because you're still getting the uncut version. You're still getting in an HD yep and two b's knocking it out. Man, they got all kinds of good stuff.

50:19 I watch a lot on there. It's my hope that there's there's some people working at Tube that are listening right now and they're going ship They're right, the Hidden, let's go, let's get that on the on the list. They'll give us the Hidden two to Be to Be. I love it. Yeah, Oh man, I have to sing along. You have to You have to well, listeners, what did you think of The Hidden? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x As always, you can check out a film by podcast dot com for all of our episodes that are streaming free on the platform of your choice. You can write to us at a Film by a podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of my phone by swag and next time on a film by It's all about a woman with a thirst.

51:13 For bad guys. I'm not talking about Amber Lewis or am I, because she'll be here. She'll be here to sink her teeth into a film by John Landis, his vampire dark comedy Innocent Blood. Dave, I gotta say, you're looking a little peaked. You've got another three or four of these these films to cover with me. Don't give into the alien parasite just yet. That's what I'm saying. I'm fighting it, Jeff, But don't worry. I'm here for the ride. And what a great ride it's going to be. I love when we do. I love October because we just. We overbook ourselves, because we just there's so many films that we want to talk about. You know, it's spooky season. We love it. We have to love love it absolutely.

51:54 It's all you fiends out there listening to us, following us and subscribing to our Patreon. Much like James Buckley, we thank you. No rude, I travel aver time do the domness I was n