John G Avildsen - 8 Seconds

0:00 What do you think about Garth Brooks? Do you got a you got a favorite Garth Brooks song? I mean, you know, I grew up military kid in the nineties. Of course I love Garth Brooks. I remember being a kid in Oklahoma. I think we're at a Tradis Air Force base, listening to friends in low places and my personal favorite my karaoke you go to rodeo Rodeo. Rodeo is your go to? Oh hell yeah, I love you know. I love that you're talking about Oklahoma. I love that you're talking about Rodeo. Rodeo is my favorite Garth Brooks song. You know. With that in mind, let's let's talk about a film by John g. Alvaltson his nineteen ninety four underrated rodeo drama eight Seconds. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Andrew Blakely, and this is a film by podcast.

1:12 Before we begin, if you're wondering what happened to our nineteen ninety six episode that was supposed to drop on Friday had some technical difficulties, but rest assured it is still dropping. Our episode covering Primal Fear will be available this weekend on our Patreon as a free episode. So before you start wondering, like, wait, do I gotta we gotta pay for this one? No, it's absolutely free. All you gotta do is join as a free member at www dot patreon dot com. Slash a film by podcast. The link is always in the show notes. Costs nothing, and we are actually releasing free content on Patreon now. But for access to all the content, you can choose to become a subscriber for as little as three dollars a month. Andrew, we have we've talked about John g Avilson's films before this time we're talking about we're talking about eight seconds. A lot of people don't know about eight seconds. What can you tell us about it? So this movie chronicles the life of Lane Frost, the nineteen eighty seven PRCA bull Righting World Championship, his marriage, his friendship, a tough heaterman who's also a three time world champion, and Cody Lambert. Yeah, that's in a nutshell. This is this is one of those biopicks that I think a lot of people missed out on, And maybe it's just because it was nineteen ninety four and we weren't doing biopicks that much. But we got to talk about this cast, and

2:45 we absolutely have to start with Luke Perry, who's playing Lane Frost, who becomes Lane Frost in this film. Yeah, I was blown away. I'll be honest. I hadn't seen this one before. It kind of flew under the radar for me. It came out when I was just young enough. I think I wasn't really in the mood for a biopic. But you know, I saw in the box with Luke Perry. Really is that that's what we're doing here? That's yeah, we're okay, I guess and uh, you know, really quickly, it's like you forget that this is Luke Perry at all, Like this this is Lane Frost on the screen. He really becomes that good old boy, just honest, down home, hard working, bull riding country boy. And he was amazing. I found myself mesmerized.

3:25 Yeah, this is a time when everyone knows Luke Perry as Dylan McKay. He's you know, Beverly Hills nine to two one. Oh, it's a smash success on Fox, and here he is breaking into movies. And we're going to talk a little bit about his his commitment to this film specifically, but before we before we talk Luke Perry, we got to talk about the real Lane Frost, you know, Oklahoma native Frost. As you said in your synopsis, he was the nineteen eighty seven p r C A world champion. That's that's professional rodeo cowboys. For all of our our non bull riding friends, he was the only right more of those more more than not right now. He was the only rider to ever score a qualified ride on the bull named the infamous bull named Red Rock. And in nineteen eighty nine, he sustained a fatal writing injury when the bull taking care of business through him, then hit him with his right horn, breaking two ribs which pierced his heart. He was pronounced dead at the local hospital shortly after. Sadly, Andrew, he is the youngest cowboy in the National Radio Hall of Fame, and his legacy lives on today at Lane Frost dot com, where you can get everything from hats and shirts to sunglasses in Cologne. And I just got to say, sadly, you cannot buy Lane Frost underwear or get a Lane Frost lunchbox, you know, because I immediately went I went looking for him, because that's kind of a joke in the in the film, they talk

4:55 about the underwear in the lunchboxes. Soa but Luke, you know, back to Luke Perry. So he goes to Hall of Fame bullriter Gary Lafu's school to learn how to ride, and Leafew, who is a legendary pro bull rider, is quoted as saying, I've had eighteen world champions come through my school, and Luke was probably one of the best students. A lot of guys want to come ride bulls, but they never put in the work. He showed up every day, he did the work, He did everything I told him. And keep in mind he's doing this for the better part of a year. Yeah, and it's it's wild too because I think, you know, again, he has this reputation as a pretty boy, so I think some of it's coming into it and like, you know, wanting to prove himself. But also the more I kind of read both he and Stephen Baldwin, who I'm sure we'll talk about later, like really did put in a lot of work and seemed to really appreciate not just the story and the acting, but the culture of the cowboys and really wanting to get into it.

6:00 And I think that really comes through. Like I said, I at no point did I question that this was a good old Oklahoma boy, And I was watching Luke Perry the whole time. But it also really paid off in some of the scenes where he's writing and it's really Luke Perry writing a bull which is it's really Luke Perry. That's amazing. He's insane. Just the insurance on this film alone. Yeah, to put your actor in that, in such a dangerous position, but it really pays off for some of these shots. They're amazing. Yeah, I read, I read, I should say. I watched an interview with Avidson talking about eight Seconds, and the reporter asked a question, how are you okay with your stars writing these things, being on these bulls? Like, what aren't you? Aren't you terrified? He said, Well, this guy was. He was learning how to do this for the better part of a year before I even showed up.

6:48 I saw what he could do. I had total confidence in him, and and it just makes the movie better. Yeah, it really does. And to your point, the cinematography, you know, I'm getting way ahead here, but this blows my mind. His DP most of the time would not get into the shoot would not get into the corrals. A lot of times you're what you're seeing, like those amazing shots that put you right there in the action, like right next to the bull. The rodeo clowns are holding cameras and and doing doing some camera work here. I think, how else do you get those shots? There's a short list of people that are insane enough to do that, you know. Yeah, he's talking to his assistant director. He's like, yeah, get in there. He's like, I'm not going in there. I tried myself up. I was in my early twenties. I tried to psych myself up for the better part of a year to try to go ride one of the like starter bulls at one of the local rodeos in southern Ohio, and I still never got around to do it. Man, that that shit is terrifying. So yeah, I had a buddy try to taught me into doing rodeo poker. Have you do?

7:55 You know what that is? No? You They set up a card table and the middle and you're playing poker and then they just randomly let the bull out. Last man sitting at the table wins. When's the pot? Sorry? Oh man, I'm good. I'm doing it you'd ask me maybe twelve years ago maybe yeah, maybe my twenties maybe, but no, not today. Now. Luke Perry is doing a sensational job here. I completely forgot he was Dylan McKay. Yeah, like you were saying, And it's sad, like, you know, we because we lost him just a few years ago. But watching this from nineteen ninety four, I almost I feel like we missed out on a bigger career for Luke Perry. What do you think.

8:48 I don't know all the props I'm given him for both the physical work and then sort of becoming a character. I do feel like there were some of the more emotional scenes later in the movie that were a little flat. Yeah, okay, I don't know that he had that leading man energy for those It felt a little soap opera eat at times. But then again that could have been on the direction or the score. You know, there's so many little little things that go into those scenes, but it's hard to not pull back a little bit when it's supposed to be this draumatic moment. You're like, okay, okay, Well, so the scenes you're talking about, you know, in most of them he's working opposite Cynthia Geary, she plays Kelly Frost. Here's the thing about the role, so Robin Wright, it was offered to Robin Wright, she turns it down, and with all respect to Mss Geary, I'm already seeing a better film, you know, Princess Buttercutt. This is like a couple of years after, you know, several years after Princess Bride. You know, a young Robin Wright at this time.

9:52 She's proven time and time again she can carry she can carry heavy scenes, she can carry happy scenes like she's she's got leading woman energy. You know. Yeah, I just I don't know about Cynthia Geary though. I mean, you know, she she does this and then she goes on to Northern Exposure, the television show, and then after that's I guess it's a couple of TV movies here and there. I don't know. I just I don't know that we have the right the right actress in this film. I think you're right. It created some chemistry issues between her and Luke Perry, and it just never I never cared a whole lot. And there's a lot to care about, you know, from the story standpoint, you could definitely get invested and I just I found it difficult to connect to her, and I think that, yeah, that really did drag the movie down. It slowed it down a little bit. Yeah, there's some there's you know, I know, there's some themes that we want to discuss later, you know, and some some of it's going to involve her character. But yeah, I just I don't know. I just don't know that. You're right, the chemistry wasn't there. But I'll tell you where the chemistry is fantastic.

10:58 It's with Stephen Baldwin. Us he's playing tough Heataman. Yeah. That blew my mind. Man. I when when this the movie started rolling and Stephen Baldwin comes on the screen, I'm like, oh no, oh, no, Like I is, I would not ever be excited to hear The only Baldwin I want to see in a movie is Alec And but occasionally, you know, occasionally Stephen pulls one out and this, honestly, he did really good. This is really I think this is my favorite Stephen Baldwin performance. Yeah. Yeah, so you know he's playing Okay, so he's playing a real cowboy, tough Heataman. Heataman was a close friend of Lane Frost, who also won the p RCA World Championship. He wins it three times.

11:46 He named his first son, Lane, and uh, surprisingly he's Stephen baldwin stunt double in the movie. Imagine. Imagine you're Stephen Baldwin playing a guy and that guy is also playing your stunt double. That's just wild to me. That that's not I think part of it too. And this was something that I thought about several times watching the movie. Because Lane passed away in eighty nine. This movie came out in ninety four, so there's not a huge gap you think about it, especially like pre production stuff. It's only a couple of years after his passing. Oh yeah, that this the ball is getting rolling on this. And there are several scenes in here that do not make Tough hut Men out to be the nicest of dudes. Lane's parents.

12:33 There's some issues. Well we'll talk about that a little bit later on, But like I was thinking about that, like, man, they're making this movie about these people and kind of making them look like assholes in real time, Like these people are still doing this, yeah, I mean going through this loss, you know, think about it. Yeah, Tough Tough is is sitting there, he's on set he's watching the cameras roll imagine you're seeing you. Imagine, imagine you're him, You're seeing this guy, this actor to play you and kind of act like a dick in a lot of scenes. Even though we love tough in this movie. Yeah, I mean, I think that's very true to the thing, and that's kind of what the character is talking about. It is like, that's what being a cowboy is. It's being tough, it's being drunk, it's being obnoxious, and you know, so he leans into it, and I think that maybe that's why Steven can pull it off. Maybe that's you know, because he's got kind of that that arrogance that mm hmm. I can't think of a better word than douchiness about him. That really leans into the character where it's you know, as the movie progresses and you start to see his heart and you start to see that he's a good dude, yeah, and he's learning and growing, but it starts from a really douchey place. My only hope is that Baldwin maybe goes off off off set and it's like, hey man, uh, I kind of feel like we're we could we could be a little softer here, and the real toughest, like don't be a puss. Yeah, that's like his go to line of this right. I will say one thing I especially love as I was looking for production notes and stuff on this movie, is that Stephen Balden actually did take all of the money he made

14:07 for this movie, yeah, to an organization that's run by Lane Frost's wife or widow. I guess that helps injured cowboys. And I thought that was, you know, having having done all his work and putting all this this work and time into it to do that. It was that was a really cool move. Yeah, you're you're talking about the the Justin Cowboy Crisis Fund. Yeah, yeah, offers financial assistance for cowboys injured during rodeos. Every every time I saw that that little nugget floating out there online, it always says a Baldwin quietly donated it or Baldwin you know, they always use some kind of adjective. But basically, he did not make a He did not want people knowing about it. Yeah, he didn't want the he didn't want the credit, right, Yeah, I think that's really cool. Yeah, it's very cool about him as far as uh, you know, we got we got I mean I know, we'll probably talk about some other people along the way. Obviously, can't ignore the fact that Vince Gill and Brooks have done for our country music listening fans. They're in this movie playing themselves actually, which I thought was kind of cool, you know, back in ninety four, especially, you know, they're at the height of their fame, especially Brooks and Done, so to see them playing a bar in the movie Pek Brooks and Done with the mullets and the big hay, it was fantastic right out of the gate. They come on screening like, oh, hey, absolutely, man, I'll tell you what. Let's let's take a quick break and then when we get back, let's talk about some of these themes, these these issues that we you know, welcome back, Andrew and I

15:37 talking about eight seconds, Andrew, let's start I think the first one I want to start with. There are some serious father son issues throughout this film. Yeah, between Lane and his dad, his dad Clyde played by James is it James Rebhorn? Yeah? This man, When you watch this movie and this was the first time watching for you, right, yeah, yeah, are you just watching the whole time thinking, man, his dad is a dick? Kinda. I I don't know James Redhorn like I think he just I always picture Hi an independence day. I don't know that goes.

16:18 He's just really good at kind of being a ship. But there's a part of him this where it's like he does a good job of showing his sadness and his regret. I think really early at the end that gat even early on even and as he's kind of putting Laye down and and motivating him by not giving him praise, part of me is like, man, fuck you. But yeah, but the part of me is like I just feel bad for this guy, Like clearly he's unhappy, you know. I don't know, I think, and that's credit to James Redhorn, because that's not I mean, that's that's all in his performance. Really on the surface, he's just a bad father. Well yeah, so it's not like he's playing this over the top abusive dad. Yeah, he has this backhanded compliment way of speaking to Lane. I was the one that really sticks out in my head.

17:12 After Wayne wins the championship and they're in their tuxedos and Lane's like, I finally did it. I've proven myself to my dad, and he has that line where you know, his dad's like, yeah, it's great, of course, Now the job is staying on top. That's when you find out if you're a real champion, and then walks away from him. I'm like, really, the greatest nun of his life and you say something shitty like that, Yeah, come on, dude. And you know, I think, especially because the biopics, you know how the time scale gets a little bit wonky, but it's easy to forget that Lane is still like twenty four at the time or something like that. I mean, he's a kid, and so clearly he's not handling it well. But it really is.

17:57 It's so sad to watch, and I think I think, you know, as the movie progresses, and you know, it ends after having Lane having passed, watching his father sit there and realize that he never he had never told his son he loved him is just shattering. And again they go so much credit James Redborn here, because like, that's so much to pull off, and he did it in a way that just felt like this guy couldn't process his emotions. And it hurt me and it hurt to watch it. It's a it's a heartbreaking scene seeing him sit on that that couch. Yeah, oh you know, and and say that and it yeah, and that moment you're your heartbroken for for Clyde obviously, and James Redhorn doing probably some of his best work in that in that one scene. But man, it's uh, the dynamics interesting because every time he cuts Lane down, it's like the only way Lane can deal with it is to go cut Kelly down.

18:56 Mm hmm. And then it's like, well, now now I'm not now I don't like Lane. You know, It's like, now you're giving me a reason not to like Lane, but I love Lane. I want to love Lane. You know. It's it's interesting too because you know, to my point earlier that you know, everybody making this movie was still processing Lane's death. His parents actually make his his real parents, Lane's yeah cameo early on, so again they're they're involved in this filmmaking, and like Clyde was involved in this filmmaking and watched that, and I mean, I can't fathom processing that and showing that that emotion to the world. But at the same time, I had the thought that Lane wouldn't have been the youngest person in the Hall of Fame if his dad hadn't pushed him in that way, and so it's, yeah, it's sort of a question of how much abuse is abuse versus how much of it's a motivational tool. And I think he clearly crossed the line. But it's a you know, it's an interesting point as far as his success. We know who Lane is because of what his father did. Yeah, it's a tough situation because you want to you want to tell yourself, well, he you know, this is you know. I mean the story begins in Oklahoma in nineteen sixty eight when Lane's like like five years old, saying I want to I want to ride, you know, and his dad puts, you know, says all right, we're going to do it. And even then, when he's like a kid, doesn't he have the line? He has a line something like, if you're going to ride, you might as well be the best. Yeah. It's like, man, he was pushing him hard from from day one. It's tough to watch. And then, like I said, the way that he transfers his

20:29 anger and his frustrations right into cutting Kelly down. You know, we got this other theme going on with you know, infidelity and forgiveness because they make mistakes, you know, both of them, Yeah, for sure. And this is this is probably, in my opinion, one of the weakest areas of the movie. I think he could have been really, really good, and I just don't think that they necessarily gave it the time or the room to really develop the way it could have, because like the first half of the movie, Lane is just the nicest, sweetest, perfect dude, Like he's he's like young Clark Kent here Yeah, and then all of a sudden, it's like on a dime, he just he cheats on her, and you're like, well, okay, so where look from? You know, yeah, let's talk about it, because first off, blows my mind.

21:15 The what they used to they call them buckle bunnies, you know, these these like these girls that would go after the cowboys. Blows my mind. Yeah, blows my mind. Who shows up at his motel door though you recognize her? Yes? No, no, Andrew, that is a unknown before she's famous. Renee Zellwegger. No, yes, no, hold o, that is you don't believe me. Come on, I don't want to hold I don't want to like go watch the movie right now. There's no way that's Rene nineteen ninety four Renee Zelwegger. That's it. Yeah, I'm watching it as like it's the voice. Mainly, I was like, wait a minute, and I immediately pulled up the cast list. I was like, whoa buckle Bunny? I think I think she's credited something something weird like Motel buckle Bunny. Rene's a Weger. That's nuts. You're right though, he he is. He is like the boy scout. And then it's not like he's upset. It's not like he's angry. He didn't just get into it with his dad. He didn't have an argue with Kelly. But but he he cheats on his wife. I don't get it. And clearly, again this is a biopic. It happened, Yeah, it just seems out.

22:36 It just seems weird. It's it's jarring in the film because you're like, why why would you do this? Yeah, And then on the flip side, I think they gave a lot of really good context and emotional support for what his wife did, because you know, she she feels alone, she feels isolated. He's constantly gone, he's constantly not there for her. She's doing everything Like I can see how that leads to wanting to find like that's not an excuse obviously, but no, I can see where how we got there, and so that one felt a little more emotionally earned. Yeah, so it was odd and I just didn't Like you said, it happens a lot in biopics where it's like you're trying to tell the truth of the story. So sometimes things feel a little bit out of place. It does, but you know it happened. So yeah, one thing I do want to talk about before we move on the theme of of friendship, the brotherhood that these these cowboys have. I believe every second of it. Like, like I said, I at the when we started I talking about chemistry between between Perry and Baldwin. I believe that they were living in that Cadillac, yeah, driving around hundreds of miles. I believe the smells. I believe everything. You know. It's just it's just great. You know. You know their buddy Cody, Cody, Yeah, you know, with his his his poetry book. Yeah, you know, this this is the this is Andrew. This is the guy that you want on the road trip with you, right, I mean, oh yeah, And it's Watching that scene too,

24:07 it reminded me, you know, think about this. You and I, like going back ten years ago. We're driving all over the country, you know, running, running tough mutter, doing all these obstacle course races, and you're piling up into people's cars and you're sharing hotel hotel rooms, and it just it felt real. It felt organic, Like yeah, right back at that moment, it felt you know, they described themselves early on as family, you know, and and like you said, like those some of those people that we used to travel a country with, like like you, like several our friends. I may not see them for a while, but it's like it doesn't matter. We're a family, Like that's just how it is. I think that they did a really good job of letting that develop organically, because like in the opening scene, when they first you know, hit throw together, it's like they don't even really like each other that much. They're just doing it because they know it's split in the fair.

24:57 But by the end of it, you really do believe like, yeah, this is this is his family, Like that's how it goes. And I think that that felt really honest and it felt really natural. Mm hmm. The way there's a great scene where Lane just gets drilled in the nuts by a bowl, yep. And he's laying there on the table and Tough's just sitting there reading a newspaper. It's like, you don't have to watch over him. He's like, no, I'm just waiting to see if they swell up so much they pop. Yeah, Like, that's exactly what a brother would say, Like that exactly. But I'm also going to be a dick about it. Yeah, I'll tell you what. You bring up that scene, so I want to talk about that. I was gonna ask you, like, if there's a pivotal scene for you, like the scene that makes this movie for me, it's that scene. I would call that scene the cowboy up scene. But yeah, Lane gets what I have to believe is one of the most catastrophic injuries a man can get. I think about how much how much is a full size, full grown bull weigh, Like, aren't they like a thousand pounds at least? Yeah, I mean it's not even just that, because I mean he like full drills into it. So the amount of the amount of pounds per square inch, I can't even fathom.

26:06 I've seen this movie a handful of times, and even watching it this last time, when you see that moment when that bull's hoof comes comes down and just smashes him. I feel I feel it. I just my stomach. I get nauseous. I wanted to go google, like did he ever have kids? Like just I'm just curious, you know what I mean? Yeah, oh man, But you know he's laying there and Tough is just sitting there. Like you said, he's he's kind of big brother in him. Yeah, but then he's he's feeling sorry for himself. And sometimes you need a Hey, it's you need the sunshine and kittens. You know, Hey, it's gonna be okay, And sometimes you need someone to give you some tough love and tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. That moment of Tough kind of telling it like it is and then and then ends it with I got two words for you, cowboy up. It's like, that's the moment where I was like, Okay, I'm a fan of Tough, Like, if you're watching it for the first time, you are a tough heatamen fan right there, and then throughout the rest of the movie as far as I'm concerned, Yeah, no, absolutely, that is that is the moment his character turns for me as well.

27:14 I think you're right, that would probably be like the Pivotal scene, because I think that's that really is also where Lane kind of takes a turn, because like this is, up to that point, it just seemed like a fun thing they were doing, you know what I mean, like, oh, yeah, we're gonna go out there, we're gonna ride, we're gonna try to be good, like we're just a couple of young, dumb idiots out fooling around in the rodeo. And that's the moment where it kind of turns and says like, no, we're gonna We're gonna do this. We're all in what no matter how badly it hurts, We're gonna do it. You know. I think there are some other really powerful scenes, like the one tender moment between Lane and his dad he's trying to ride Red Rock and things like that. But yeah, I think that Are you talking about the Vince post scene? Yeah? Oh great, I mean, okay, so great moment right there, because that's the first time if Tough is making taking a turn in the In the Cowboy upscene, Clyde's taking a turn on the fence post scene where he has that moment, he softens up a bit and you know, hey, I'm not really good at sharing my feelings, and there's nothing I can tell you about Rodeo and you know, bull riding that you don't already know. It's it's it's maybe it's a sad moment for Clyde because he's admitting, you know, the son has surpassed the father. This is something, this is something every father has to has to contend with.

28:29 At some point, your your son will be stronger, faster, whatever the case would be. Yeah, and Andrew, your son one day, although you are a super superhero my eyes, one day your your young your young boy will we'll surpass you. You know. Yeah, I mean I I don't think I have the same mindset as Clyde. I mean I'm already telling my son, how proud of man when he can tell me what color his shirt is, so like, yeah, I have no problem telling him I'm proud of him. But yeah, I think that that's it really does humanize him in that moment, and and it makes it makes the final scene that we talked about where rab Horn said on the couch crying over having us, you know, Lane, it makes it seem a little bit more palatable because you know that you know that Lane got that moment with his dad where he was like, Okay, he does actually respect me. He is proud of me, whether or not he's capable of saying it in those terms. I think that moment really landed that and it was it was an important one.

29:29 It is, and I think it speaks volumes about the real Lane. And you know, at this if this actually was a conversation that happened, you can at least take comfort in the fact that he had that before he passed away. He knew that he knew his father's love before he passed away. Yeah, he knew his father's acceptance, his his approval, I guess yeah. And speaking him passing away, that's one thing I've been really wrestling with as far as whether or not I like the way the movie handled his death. Do you mean how brief it was? Yeah, and how sort of out of the blue it was. And I know, I guess I want to hear your opinion on this because I've been waffling because my part of me thinks this is a movie you have to build up to it. There's got to be some sort of emotional payoff. But the other part of me is thinking, well, but it's a true story, and this is really how it happened. It was it was a freak accident during a regular ride in that that sucks. Yeah, it makes it more jarring. It's it's incredibly jarring, especially when you don't know the story. Like the first time I saw this in nineteen ninety four, I didn't know who Lane Frost was.

30:33 So I'm just watching this assuming I didn't even know he was a real person. So I'm just assuming, all right, Well, in the end, he's gonna build that house for Kelly and whatever. And you're right, it just Red Rock throws him. I'm sorry, not Red Rock taking care of business throws him. You see him get Gordon aside, he stands up like and then he just he just drops. You know, they're like, get a doctor. And the very the very next scene you get the Karen his casket out of the of the church and you're just like, it's a it's a slap in the face. You're like, what what just happened? Yeah? So you know, I I wrestle with it because if this was if this wasn't a real person, I think we would have had some kind of melodramatic, you know, beautiful words on the on the deathbed moment with the hero of this is a payoff to something that we've been building towards or something like that, like Red Rock would have killed him, you know, in this big you know showdown. But I'll tell you the reason why I'm okay with it is because this film does something I don't know if I've ever seen another movie do. And what I'm what I'm talking about is we have spent this whole time with Lane and his story, and then in the blink of an eye, the hero moment, the big climactic moment at the end, is not Lane's. It's tough Stephen Baldwin es since takes just just hijacks the movie, and not in a bad way, but it becomes his story almost

32:07 immediately. And you get this, You still get this giant hero moment at the end of the movie that you love. But it's not for Luke Perry's character, It's for Steven Baldwood's So let me, let me, let me, let me throw it back to you. What you know that sudden that sudden flip did that did you were you in were you in for it? I think it was more jarring than I was expecting. You know, I knew I didn't know the details, but I knew that Lane was killed in a rodeo during an accident on he got cord, and I didn't really know the details behind it, so I knew that that was coming. But yeah, it kind of blindsided me as well. I will say it really did make the emotional payoff of Tough, like winning, you know, and say, you know, nobody ever believed in me as much as Lane, and then going out there and doing the full sixteen second ride. Yes, it made that really powerful. And I think that there's some truth to the fact that sometimes that's how death is. You know, sometimes it is just unexpected and you don't get some big cathartic emotional payoff. It's just they're gone and now you have to process that. And so I think there's there's something interesting there, But I don't know, maybe I need maybe I need to rewatch and kind of give it another go. It's I think it's I think it's it's fascinating that we can get a moment like like Tough dedicating his ride to the memory of Lane, He's just about to win the World championship and then he stays on that xtra eight seconds, which actually happened. That's a real

33:38 factual that you can watch it. You can watch it on YouTube. Is nuts. It's insane, right. Could you imagine like the crowd, I mean, they've got to be losing their minds watching this happen in real life. Yeah, so unbelievable moment. And I guess we should expect this from from John g Alvolinson, right, I mean, think about this, These guys went and learned how to become bull riders for the better part of a year. Rocky he's got, Sylvester Sloan becomes a boxer. He learns how to box. Ralph Maccio is learning karate. I'm telling you right now, if you sign up to play any kind of athletic role for John g Altson, you're going to become the role. So I don't know. I'm all in on the end. I thought it was a you know, it's emotional, you're tearing up for tough. It had everything very very satisfyed as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely, So alvertson a little fun fact and I got a quote for you. I want to share little clip this might surprise you.

34:39 Initially, he was hired to direct Al Pacino in Cirproco Talking nineteen seventy three. Now he was fired due to creative differences with the producer. But despite that, he remained close friends with the real Frank Cirproco, who the movie is based on. And they actually shared a Long Island Beach house for like three years in the eighties. So that's so weird. That's not what you expect to read about John g Abbotson. But yeah, that's that's like a mad libs Like did you know the director of the Karate Kid and the actual Cercaco had a house in Long Beach? Like that is not a real sentence. It is not a real sentence, but it was a real thing and it happened. That's crazy. Great, great, great quote here from John. This is a nineteen ninety four interview he did with Bobby Wygant.

35:38 He's talking about Luke Perry, like we talked at the top of the hour. We talked about his thoughts on Luke Perry actually being on these bulls and being in the shoot and doing some of this stuff. This is him talking about Luke Perry doing a lot of these his own stunts. Looked at some of his own bull riding, So as the director, you had to be nervous every time he came out of that shoe. Oh. When I first heard that he was riding a bull, that he'd been working on the movie a year before I got involved, and he was uh learning how to ride bulls. And when I got involved, I said, well, wait, wait a second guy, as we're making a movie about a fellow got killed doing this. Wh what's our actor on a bull for? We have stunt people who can do that? Uh? What if he gets hurt? So I was very much against it uh when I first got involved. But I went up and saw Luke uh at his school uh and realized he could do it, and he could do it uh well, and he had a good teacher and Gary Lafeud and I became uh an advocate of the idea. We convinced the uh insurance companies and and we were able to uh uh do it.

36:43 And and I certainly had that concern that you're talking about. And and sure enough, when we were shooting in uh San Diego towards the end of the schedule, he got uh badly hurt. He got uh whacked in the shoulder, dislocated his shoulder. The movie could have been called A Man without a Face if that hoof had been a few more interest to the left. I think a lot of people think he's just another pretty face in the TV dial. But this is a good actor, somebody who's very committed, dedicated, no fooling around, always prepared, and he's very talented. So I think you're gonna see a lot of good stuff from from lub, you know, Andrew at that, you know, let's let's change up. You know, we're always quoting the director lately. Let's I just thought, let's let's just hear the director. So that was that was John g himself. Ge, do you know what the did you know what the G stands for?

37:30 What Gilbert has to stay for something? But I guess I'll tell you what. Let's take one last break and then we're going to get into his filmography a little bit. Andrew, we're back talking about the films of John g Avilton. Here's the thing, man, I don't know if you looked, if you did any I don't know how far you dug into his his uh his resume, but from sixty four to seventy five, there's a lot of unusual films, some exploitive films. Nothing he's really ever heard of, never heard of, with exception of one nineteen seventy He does Joe, have you actually have you seen this one? I have not. It's on my long list of TBW. I have to say I've actually never seen it myself, but I have to be honest. After reading the synopsis for this one, Andrew, this is something right up. You're in ies alley for discussion.

38:32 Two men, wealthy conservative Bill and far right factory worker Joe form a dangerous bond after Bill confesses to Joe about murdering his daughter's drug dealer boyfriend. Ooh yeah. Peter Boyle kind of going Charles Bronson, like, Okay, this we need to see this man. Susan Sarandon's in it. I mean, I'm always there for Peter Boyle in a lot of I think he was. He was very underrated. I feel like Avilton's got a really weird collection. None of his like, He's got so many iconic movies and yet so many that are just like never heard of, never heard of, never will be heard of again. Yeah, I mean, it's such a weird career.

39:16 We talked about, like some of these unusual films. He's exploited films Like the year before he does Rocky, he does a movie called Foreplay. It's just it's it's weird. But let's move on. Listen, nineteen seventy six Rocky. We have we have covered Rocky on our nineteen seventy six series. I actually did that. Andrew got to do that one with our buddy Andy Tom. Yeah, you know he grew he grew up in Philly. He If you're gonna talk with anyone about Rocky, it's gotta be Andy Tom. But uh, your quick take on the original, I mean, it's it's Rocky. It's a classic. Uh. I mean, I don't really know what to say about it that hasn't been said already. What else you say?

40:00 It's the birth of I mean, I know it's the seventies, but it really feels like the birth of the good eighties montage. It brought us the loan. It's it's Rocky. I mean, I it is. I must see. It is the top one hundred movies you gotta see before you die. Absolutely, it's it's my all time favorite. So nineteen eighty I think we have homework aside from Joe, we might we might want to look into this one. He does a movie called The Formula Andrew listened to this. The synthetic fuel production formula, invented by the Nazis at the end of World War Two, is sought after by some who aim to sell it and by others who wish to destroy it. Starring George C. Scott and Marlon Brando. Oh yeah, I just pulled it up right here. This actually looks interesting. This looks like, yeah, where's it streaming? I want to watch this tonight? What again? Though, Like this is after Rocky?

40:54 What is this man's career? It's so all over the board because this kind of looks like like what I'm looking to hear. It kind of looks like a grindhouse movie, but with a list star. It's like, it's so strange. Are you seeing the photo of Marlon Brando? Yeah? I mean he how sinister is he? Yeah? And the one I've got here is like, got like these overexposed flame pictures on it, Like, yep, it genuinely looks like a grindhouse movie. Yeah. Well, It's like you said, what kind of career is this guy having? Just when you expect him to zig, he's gonna zag because in a year later, in nineteen eighty one, he does a movie that should have been a smash success.

41:35 And I'm talking about Neighbors. Help me out here. You've got a suburban like you've got two neighbors going to war with each other in a comedic setting, and they're played by Dan Ackroyd and John Belushi. Oh saw, I've seen this one. I had to literally check it. I was like, wait, what are we talking about here? Now? That is It's it's been a while, but I've seen this one. It was it was kind of underwhelming. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's yeah, I kind of Belushi were great. I remember watching it. I was so excited. I was like, all right, we're getting some Blues Brothers energy in here. And yeah, it fell flat. It's not a bad movie. It's just that it's not a great movie, right. Yeah. And it's weird because they were supposed to play the opposite roles before before they before the cameras rolled. Belushi was supposed to be the loud, brash, in your face, crazy guy, and Akroy was supposed to play the quiet guy, and at the last possible second they decided, you know what, let's switch things up, and then Belushi's the quiet guy. I don't I think that kind of hurts it in a way, honestly, Yeah, for sure.

42:39 I mean every every great Blushi role has been him being over the top of him being loud. It's sometimes playing against type isn't the right call exactly. I'll tell you what wasn't the right call. In nineteen eighty three, he does a movie that he is. He's on the record as saying he wishes he could refund everyone's ticket money that went and saw it. I'm talking about A Night in Heaven. Uh. Not happy to say I haven't seen this one. I'm just just for just for the listeners who are wondering, well, how bad could it be? What? What is the movie? Uh, here's here's your synopsis. A married college professor begins a torrid affair with her failing student who secretly moonlights as a late night strip club dancer. And uh, before you get too uh too hot and bothered. Uh. The stripper in question played by Christopher Atkins, the kid from the Blue lagoon.

43:39 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Well she's cheating on her NASA engineer husband with him too, so usually you're especially offended, right, she's living the dream, yeah, Leslie, Leslie and Warren, what are you? What are you thinking? She's thinking she's got to get away to the Blue Lagoon? I guess because yeah, movie does did not do well. And uh. I always love when I when a director will will publicly apologize for a film that they did. I think that's I think that's hilarious. I mean sometimes you just gotta be honest with yourself. Yeah, yeah, we dropped the ball on that one guy. Wait, hey, sorry, guys, Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you where he doesn't drop the ball, and it's it's his next his next film, Andrew. Just days ago June twenty second, it's celebrated its fortieth anniversary. I'm talking about the Karate Kid, the Masterpiece. We've discussed it before, we'll discuss it again.

44:35 I'm sure this is the reason I know his name, you know what I mean? Yeah, because I mean he does this and then pretty much immediately does Karate Kid too right after it. Yeah. Yeah, there's it's like a little two year it's like this is eighty four and then karate Kid is eighty six because you and I covered Pridy Kid two on our limited series nineteen eighty six. When and again, for anyone that's that's a little rusty on their karate Kid history, karate Kid two the the pivotal moment there is when Daniel LaRusso becomes the hero, right because it was the villain and karate Kid I will die on that hill. He won the tournament with an illegal kick to the face, which is clearly against the rules. This punk from Mercida shows up rex Johnny Lawrence's high school senior year guy from New Jersey.

45:25 What were they thinking? I won't do it. I won't do it. I refuse. Yeah, at some point you and I are going to have to do a Karate Kid episode where we explain why Johnny is the hero because there's there's still amazingly, there's still people that they're like, no, Daniel is the good guy. People are allowed to have their wrong opinion. It's fine, yeah, yeah, what's what's Dayton say? You could be wrong all day. Yeah. I will say that looking at his career and the Karate Kid movies really is what What brought it out to me is I feel like he is as a director, i'veon is as good as the cast he gets, because I felt like a lot of these movies where they fall short is where it's like a certain character just doesn't really live up or doesn't really bring home the energy. And where he's where he really shines, is like where he's got Pat Marita, where he's got stallone. You know, that's where he's like, that's when he makes something legendary. You know. Well, the the Alvitson formula is, I need an underdog who will not perform at the level needed until until his his girl is in his corner, and then he overcomes adversity. Think about that. Yeah, LaRusso needed Ali, Rocky needs Adrian, and Lane needed Kelly. And then at certain points in the story there was adversity and the women were not standing behind their man or by their man, I should say, and then they they reconcile and then all of a sudden, I'm ready to to win, you know, in Rocky In's case, he's a winner. Yeah, you know, Laane,

46:59 I'm ready to ride red Rock. In Daniel Larusso's case, yeah, I'm ready to cheat and whin the All Valley by any means necessary. So yeah, I mean it's funny you mention it, but you're not wrong. Yeah, it's yeah, I'm okay, I'm a fan of it. Hey, it works again. Nineteen eighty six, he does The Karate Kid Part two. Great film. We covered it. Please check out our nineteen eighty six episode on the Karate Kid. Two eighty seven, he does a movie called Happy New Year. I'm listen, I gotta skip right by this one because it just sounded bad and we never heard of it, and I'm just gonna leave it at that. Listeners, if you want to look up Happy New Year and you want to be disappointed, to go for it. But if you watch it and it's amazing, let us know. I would love to be proven wrong. I love finding a good die. Yeah, hey, but tell yeah, tell me tell me where. I'd love to be wrong about that. But sometimes you can just look and you can know. Yeah.

47:55 But in nineteen eighty eight, I remember seeing this one on I want to say Showtime maybe or HBO. In the early nineties. Nineteen eighty eight, Molly Ringwold graduates from the brad Pack and she does a movie called for keeps, which I gotta tell you, I don't know how well this would play for laughs in twenty twenty four. But Andrew, if you haven't seen it, it's a rom com focused on whether or not she should keep the baby after she gets pregnant. Huh. I mean, you know we had knocked up, and aside from a few scenes in there that already haven't aged, well like, that went pretty well. So I think you can do it. I don't know if I trust nineteen eighty seven Hollywood to do it, but I think it could be done well. You know, in eighty seven eighty it was cute. It was like, oh, well she keep it was she Oh. I don't think we're going to have that kind of mentality nowadays. But you know whatever, I'm glancing out of here. It's got Polly Shore in it, which means it's definitely handled with Grayson a plumb.

49:01 You don't think the Wheasel could uh talk about the topics like abortion. I don't know, maybe you know what, at least it'll be fun. I honestly, the last time I saw it was probably like nineteen ninety. I don't remember. And uh, I remember watching it because I was I was crushing on Molly Ringwall probably, but who wasn't Who was it? Right? Nineteen eighty nine he's back with damn good movie Morgan Freeman and lean on Me. Yeah, this is probably, Like I think this might be the first of his movies that I saw, maybe this are Karate Kid because I was I was pretty young, you know, I would have been like you see it came out eighty nine, Yes, I mean I was one when it came out. Well, you know, who knows when I actually saw it, But I remember seeing this one really really young, and damn it's a good movie. And again just feels a little left field for this guy.

49:55 His career just keeps taking He's eggs. He's eggs, yeah, right into the classroom. And this is you know, I mean nowadays, like the teacher or principal that's going to make a difference in the school. Like that's it's it's it's a cliche. We've seen so many movies do it, but this is one him or Michelle Pfeiffer, like that's exactly that's the blueprint. Yeah, yeah, I love it though. It's definitely worth the watch if you're a fan of nineteen eighty nine films, and I know some of our listeners are they knew who they are? H you got you gotta you gotta check out Lean on Me. And then obviously nineteen eighty nine you have to check out his other feature. He's back for the third time doing the Karate Kid. Where you at on this one, I mean it's I don't hate it, yeah, good, not certain certain trilogies, you know, Like I'm just like, yeah, you can skip that one. I wouldn't necessarily say that about the third, but it definitely doesn't live up to the first two. No, it's it's enjoyable, yeah, but uh, I can't say that for he does next in nineteen ninety when he revisits Rocky Yeah, that's Rocky five. That's that's rough, That's I mean, I'll say this, Rocky five kind of circled back around to a point where it's kind of funny a little bit. It's kind of like Jaws three D, where it's like, yeah, this isn't a worthy sequel, but like, I want to watch it still. I listen, I'm expecting the call you mentioned

51:27 Jael's three D. I was. I was able to cover that with my friend, our friends Jason and d Over on the show You Keep Me Serious Podcast. We they have this awesome series What the Heck Happened where we just get to, you know, sink our teeth into some some films and and and and call him out for being the schlock that they that they are. I'm waiting for the Rocky five call because I know it's coming. It's kind of or Star Trek five, one of the fives is going to come. Yeah, oh oh, Jason d If you're listening Star Trek five versus Rocky five, What the heck Happened? Uh yeah, call us please now? In nineteen ninety two, Andrew, I think we got we got to add this to our list. This one sounds I hadn't I hadn't seen this one.

52:10 The Power of One an English boy. You're looking at this one? An English boy living in Africa during World War Two, through his boxing prowess, becomes a symbol of hope in a time of war. Okay, I mean Morgan Freeman, Stephen Dwarf. It's you know, yeah, we're doing Rocky during World War two? Is that what we're doing? I could see that maybe a little bit of a you know, you get Morgan Freeman as the inspiring you know, like motivational mentor obviously there's going to be a pretty blonde that he has to have watching him so he can fight good. We've already cherished that. But I could see that. Yeah, now you know nineteen ninety four, eight second. We've been talking about eight seconds this this past hour. Sadly he's only got one more film. Nineteen ninety nine, he does the direct to video Van Damn film called depending on what street you grew up on, it's either desert Inferno or sorry, it's inferno, or it's desert Heat. I saw it as desert heat. That's where I come from, so yeah, I'm a desert heat guy. But here's here's what will blow your mind. Did you have you seen Desert Heat? By the way, yeah, it's been it's been a minute, but yeah, it's been a while. But I need to go back and watch it again because apparently it's a Yojimbo remake and I can't believe that for one second. But I kinda, I kind of can. I mean, I could see that in the style and the genre. It's it's been long enough, I couldn't.

53:42 I would have been young enough, I wouldn't have caught that. Listen, as corny as it might be, This is a This is a Yojimbo remake starring Jean Claude Van Dam and Pat Morita. It's all you need. What more do you aside, like, aside from like a six pack of beer? I don't know what else you need to make that a good night? So yeah, that's that is all you have to say. And I'm already there. All right, Well, Andrew. You know, sadly, John g Alflson did pass away from pancreatic cancer in twenty seventeen, so we're not gonna get any more films from him. My question to you shooting from the Hip Rocky five or Karate Kid three. Oh, karate Kid three gotta be karate Okay, Yeah, I mean again, I don't I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. It's it's fine, Yeah, yeah, you it's it's it's got Terry Silver, it's got Karate's bad boy Mike Barnes. I mean, it's got Daniel going back to the dark side like he was in the first movie. Yeah. You know, the more I talk it up, the more I'm starting to think. Yeah, it's a good movie. It's it's bad all right, Well listen, we can't thought it around for eight seconds? I think, uh, look, you don't need to be a fan of bull riding or the rodeo to enjoy this movie. It's got the same heart you see Albolton offer us in Rocky or The Karate Kid. It's it's currently streaming on tub and the Roku channel.

55:07 Andrew, where'd you catch this one? I watched it on twob how to do with a couple of commercials. But m hm, but enjoyable? Right? You'd recommend this song? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, especially like I Feel like Me. You know, I grew up in that sweet that sweet spot of nineties country. You know, songs about rodeos, got Brooks and down. So many shots from a cinematography standpoint of this movie just look like a music video from a nineties country song. It's it's a good movie. It's got a good, good heart, and it's interesting. You learn about a world you don't know about it. I'm down. I'd recommend it for sure. Absolutely listeners, what do you think of eight seconds? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, X you can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for all of our episodes streaming free on the platform of your choice. You can write to us at a Film by a Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of a Film by swag. Also check out our Patreon for some excellent bonus content. Andrew and I have started these fun minisodes. We're calling ten for two. Andrew, I'm already excited for what we're doing in July.

56:19 You know, two minutes of jawls, two minutes of a League of their own, Oh hell yeah, those are gonna be fun. But we also we cover films requested by our subscribers, and our wildly funlimited series nineteen eighty six is enjoying a limited renaissance. Someone pointed out a while ago we finished it with sixty six episodes. Hey, why didn't you guys do eighty six? So we are bringing it back. We're I think we're ten episodes in, so we got ten more to go. And uh, I gotta tell you, the next one we do promises to be fun. I was actually talking with Scott Hoffman the other night and here's here's a little I'm gonna be Andrew. Let me play a clip of of of what he had to say, because, uh, you know, I was teeing him up to see if he could guess the movie. All right, Scott, so you are just so, I'm sure so I understand you. You you do not want to do armed in Dangerous. I would rather not. That sounds pretty cringing and inappropriate. Okay, all right, yeah, I'll tell you what I found one. And I'm surprised that we did not think about doing this one.

57:27 I'm gonna see if you can guess it. And uh and we're gonna have some fun with this one. All right, So imagine this. It's a movie that stars and Indiana Jones villain, Harry Potter villain one of the Beatles, an egg Shin from Big Trouble, and Little China. Mm hmm. It's got music. It's got music. It's got it's got some pretty amazing music. And I'm gonna give you if you need one more, one more hint. I'm going to give you a review. I'm gonna carefully, I'm going to redact some of this review, but I'm going to give you a review. That someone had to say at the time. This guy from a well, I won't geta I want to. I want this to be a surprise for you. So okay. This guy gave it one star out of four and he says, quote in redacted, as you may have heard, almost everything is just a bit off. Though widely anticipated, it's actually a kind of miniaturization of Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom, with a feisty heroine in the vein of Rita Hayworth and a roguish adventure hero as well as a pop sprinkled score. There's a plot here redacted. I don't give you how don't I give you that one in the review by saying wrong stars, wrong roles, not much happening here,

59:00 and for this redacted production company, their first big bust. Scott, if you if you have not figured out we're we're gonna talk about a movie that that might take the crown as worst film of nineteen eighty six away. It might snatch it right out of the hands of Under the Cherry Moon, Howard the Duck and Troll. Oh wow, any any idea? He went to a guess of what we're doing Alan Quartermaid. No, no, hold on, Alan Quarterman was good, but that was not nineteen eighty six. So I'll tell you what. All right, I'm guessing that the Beatler you're talking about is Ringo Star. No, although that's a good, that's a good.

59:43 You know, Ringo did some movies. Yeah, right too. He was ready, you're ready for me to give it up? Yeah, hit me with it. He shaking his head now because he knows. But you know, uh yeah, you guys are gonna have to check out Patreon for that one. On Friday, our limited series A Film at forty five returns with special guest Van Allen Plexico. The Martinis will be shaken, not stirred when we celebrate the forty fifth anniversary of Moonraker, and next time on a film by we'll discuss a former Bond turned villain, Rocket Packs and the lovely Jennifer Connley when we talk about a film by Joe Johnston Andrew. Thank you very much. Always a pleasure, sir, Always was a pleasure to be here. Happy to be back. Yeah, And for all of you out there listening each week, hitting those like subscribe and follow buttons and following us on Patreon, We thank you. I wood hold like a life line to my heart. Hunderneys, the Sundy Weed, if I head only. Oh, it was a last walk in the rain