John Milius - Big Wednesday

0:00 Back in February, we mentioned one of our listeners from the UK, Trev Lewis you remember that I do. Trev discovered us when he found our Jaws two episode. Thanks No, thanks to you and Scott. That's right, you know. During our email exchange, he wrote, quote, A film I would love you to have a deep dive into is one that doesn't get much of a mention in movie podcasts that I listened to. In fact, it rarely gets mentioned at all. It's an underrated gem from the nineteen seventies from writer director John Mealius Big Wednesday, a biographical surfer pick starring Jan Michael, Vincent, William Kat and Gary Busey. If you get around to this one at some point, I'd absolutely love it. End quote, Well, I think we're gonna get around to it, aren't we. I think it's time we get around to it. So let's talk about a film by John Milias, his nineteen seventy eight coming of age surfing classic Big Wednesday. He's one of the con men. You can hear him on our Film at forty five series celebrating the forty fifth anniversary of Hollywood's Big Movies. He's also on

1:34 the bridge of our star Trek pod Phasers set to stun talking all things Trek and thankfully he's making time to stop by and talk with me. Here today, David Burns is with us. That's right, I'm here in the studio, Dave. The film's title is derived from the popular myth that all great surf days fall on Wednesdays. Did you know that? I did not know that. Well, I'll tell you what I gotta think. Outside of Trev and the two of us, there's probably a lot of people that don't even know what this movie is. Oh, I would say, because I had no clue what this was. Yeah, you want you want to give us a little synopsis? Yeah? Absolutely So grab your surfboards, everyone, and let's head to the beach to join Matt, Jack and Leroy and with them hit some of the best waves. Imaginable. Life growing up in the nineteen sixties is nothing but partying, girls, music, and surfing. Of course, everything is perfect. It seems like nothing would come between them having the times of their lives. That is, until reality strikes and life changes them and the ones they love. Will these friends manage to make it and will they find them the mythical day known as Big Wednesday, when the greatest wave of all time will come. We're talking about myths. We we have to talk about the the legendary agreement that John Milis makes with his friends about the film's profit points. You know what, Yes, I do. Important film will come out on top on this one. Wow. So George Lucas and

3:07 Steven Spielberg are such big believers in this film and they believe it's going to become what they call the American Graffiti of surfing films. And I can see that after seeing this film. Absolutely, I could totally see what Steve and George are thinking. So they trade profit points with him against their upcoming films. So if you didn't, I'm sure you know this. But Lucas is working on a little space movie called Star Wars. Meanwhile, off the red hot success of Jaws, Spielberg's got one called Close Encounters of the Third Kind, another another little small space film. So they tell John, hey, look, you give us points on Big Wednesday. Give us your points on Big Wednesday. We'll give you our points on Star Wars and Close Encounters.

3:55 He says, yes, suckers. Big Wednesday does four point five million on a budget, of eleven million, so they get nothing the bomb yep. Miles. On the other hand, how many millions do you think he got out of that deal? Oh my gosh, I can't imagine. It had to be well more movie. I would think so. And you know. During the nineteen seventy nine interview with Roger Ebert, William Cat suggested that the film's box office failure was due to poor marketing because it focused on the fighting scenes and the surfing angle. You've seen the trailers for this, right, Yeah, and I can see that it looks like a fifties beach blanket bingo type of movie. Yeah. And that's like, that's all you're going to see is fighting and surfing, which could not be further from the truth.

4:44 Correct it is? You're right, Yeah, I agree with William Cat. He's absolutely right. Yeah. Speaking of William Cat and Dave, we just talked to him a couple months ago. We did. I wish we would have said something about Big Wednesday. I wouldn't even thinking about it. I didn't know anything about this meeting, what you know, And now that I have your right, I'm like, man, it would have been really cool to talk to him about this movie. Because he probably doesn't get asked a lot about it. I'm sure he does it if we we meet him again, I'm sure we will next time. Next time we talked to him, we got to do a little big Wednesday spot. Yeah, I'm sure he would love to talk about it. He'll dig that, right. Let's talk like William Katt. He plays He plays Jack Barlow. His character is based off a real surfer named Kemp Aberg. You know, you know a little bit about Kemp. No, I know, he was like a really famous surfer, that's all I know. Initially served as a goofy footer before switching to the regular footstance on account of Malibu's right breaking waves. Oh okay, so goofy. Like I did a little surfing homework. Goofy footing is when you it's almost like if you're a box and you're you're a South Paul.

5:48 Yeah, so you're you're backwards basically, Okay, you know, kind of like bat and left handed in a way. Oh wow, that could be very complicated. Yeah, but that's that's just how he learned. But when he moves to Malibu, waves break to the rights, so he has to switch to what's called regular foot stance on the board, but he's also known for his iconic back arch back arch stance. Yeah. Uh. It became the logo for Surfer magazine in nineteen sixty one. And it's actually his younger brother Dennis, who co wrote the film with John Milis. Okay, Yeah, and I think isn't isn't that One of the reasons why this got called Big Wednesday was because of the there was a documentary. I think it was We're gonna get to that here in a little bit. I got, I've got something on that for you. William Katt been he's been surfing his whole life though, so he got I gotta be honest, like the scenes that you see him in the surf, Yeah, he looks very he looks right at home. He looks natural. He does. And I know we're gonna bring this up, but I mean, holy cow, have you ever seen William kat or Gary Busey or Jim Michael Vincent in this kind of shape?

6:54 No? It kind of threw me back when I was watching this films, like, Wow, these guys were young and really good. It's like that is that beaucy? Really? Like, yeah, everyone of them have a six pack It's crazy man. And this film came out in seventy eight, so we were doing a film at forty five celebrating seventy eight, and we did the Buddy Holly Story. Yes, and he was so close you couldn't see what kind of shape he was Inly this movie show is what kind of shapey? Oh? Yeah, yeah, we'll get the bucy here in a second. This role. Tom Barringer auditioned for the part. Now he's now think about Barringer is a is a terrific actor. He is at this point though, when he's reading for this, he's only been on like one Life to Live for two years, right, So I gotta say though, between him and William Catt, it's gotta Willam Kass William William ktt all the way, all the way, William kat He said of this role, quote, it was the most personal film I had done. I'd lived that life since I was ten, and his performance is so genuine. Because of that, I think, yeah, it definitely comes off on screen and it does show that he's natural in that environment. You know who he reminds me of this movie. He reminds me a lot of Tommy Howe in the Outsiders. Yeah, yeah, I could see now we've got the voice over. He's the innocent one of the group. Yeah, he's the moral compass of the group.

8:16 Yeah he's he's really he's got a real pony boy vibe. He absolutely does. Yeah, he's the leader of the group if you really look at it that way. Well, okay, I'm glad you say that, because I go back and forth when I'm watching it. Something. Through most of the movie it feels like it's William Kat's movie. Yeah, but for almost like the back half of it, I kind of feel like it's j. Michael Vincent's move it becomes Matt's story. It's about Yeah at that point, You're right, it does. It does a switch on you. And the reason it does that switch is if you didn't pay attention to the film. And it is one of my that I want to talk about a point in this film that makes this film. You know how we always talk about we have that one scene, oh yeah, that we feel is the one scene that you know, this film couldn't do with that you're talking about a pivotal moment. Pivotal moment. Yes, uh, that's the scene. And I'll go ahead and say itnown since we're talking about it, go for it.

9:05 The scene where he's going off to Vietnam, Yeah, Jack is, and Jack has that conversation. You know, they're all celebrating it's his last night to the military. Yeah, and you know he grabs Matt and tells them, you know, take care of these people. Yes, because and that shows you're right there. Jack was the leader. He was taking care of everybody in that group, that the females, the males, everybody. At that pivotal moment, he turns he turns that over to Matt. At that point. I never even thought about the passing of a torch type of situation that these these two guys have in that moment that because think of the stuff Matt was going through in the first half drunk. You know, he couldn't keep it, the gay hanging on by barely hanging on. Yeah, and then look at the complete reversal he has in the second half of this film.

9:54 Yeah, Okay, so it does it becomes his movie, It does, absolutely, it does. H Yeah, jam Michael Vincent playing Matt Johnson. I love that I did some surfing homework because now that I know that you don't know anything about Kemp. Maybe you don't know what I got coming up here. I'm excited, tell me so. Matt Johnson is a character based on another famous surfer, Lance Carson. Suffering from spinal biffida as a baby, doctors told his parents that water exercise would stimulate bone growth, so he begins surfing at age four after his dad makes a custom four foot surfboard for him, Dave. He goes on to become one of the top surfers in the world. Like the character of Matt, he does suffer from alcoholism, yeah, and like the character did get himself back together. He goes on to create the Lance Carson Surfboards label and launched the Surf Writer Foundation, which is a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting and preserving the world's oceans. Wow, that's impressive. How impressive that? Yeah? Yeah, I can definitely see why they used him as an inspiration for this character. Matt absolutely film, because it really does parallel quite well. I want to speak a little bit about Jim Michael love Vincent, go for it. I always remember him as a kid playing an airwolf. You remember him, Yes, It's it's very strange on how his life parallels the character of Matt. I don't know if you know this, Jeff, but John Michael Vincent struggled with alcoholism,

11:28 which is why Airwolf fell apart. Is that that's why we lost Airwolf. That's why we lost Airwolf. And he was supposed to be this big upcoming star and he he was. He was very, very popular, and unfortunately alcoholism took over his life as Matt does in this film in the beginning of the film, and everything fell apart from him. So that's why Airwolf was canceled and we really didn't see much of this actor anymore. It never made sense to me, man, because like watch that, you know, you're a kid, you're an Airwolf, and you just assume that this is gonna be a the deck, Like what where's Airwolf the movie? And where's where's all the Jan Michael Vincent movies. I never knew that about his situation.

12:09 He would show up iniberated where the scenes being shot. Apparently it became a big old mess. But you know, later in life he struggled, Man. There he lost I believe he lost the below his one of his legs, blow his knee what in an accident, I believe, And then something happened to his vocal cord. I mean it's he's had a rough life, he really has. But it's interesting that he plays Matt in the struggles that Matt has in this film. That's sad. Well, let's let's uh, let's catch a new wave with jam Michael Vincent. So he's doubled. Now. He's a good surfer too, he grew up surfing. But some of the stuff these guys do, it's just incredible and absolutely so. So.

12:54 Jan Michael is doubled by sixties surfing legend Bill Hamilton. Dave. He's the stepfather of arguably the best big wave surfer in history. Talking about Laird Hamilton, Yeah you know that name. I don't know that name. You want a fun fact about Laird? Sure, because he did get He has a little bit of a history with the movies. You know, he's he was like a surf He was a surf coordinator for Die Another Day, and he's done some stunt coordination with some other films. The fun fact about Laird Hamilton he was the top choice to replace Dolph Lungren for the Masters of the Universe sequel that never happened. Dude would take when you take a look at him. Yeah, in like late eighties, early nineties. Yeah, he does look like he Man. He more so than Dolph Lunger. And he has that he is wearing the he Man haircut, and like if you look him up on IMDb, dude, he's he Man. So I totally see where they went with that. I do. I can see that as well.

13:50 Interesting. You know who was up for Matt Hamilton and turned it down? I do, actually, okay, Jeff Bridges. So why does Bridges turn something like this down? I don't no, to be honest with you, I don't know what was going on in his life, if he had any other kind of roles, or he just didn't see something in the script. I mean, this is this is a couple of years before Tron correct where he like explodes in popularity. I'm I'm wondering if he you know, I didn't do my homework on Jeff Bridges his fhmography. I'm wondering what you know, what's his what's his pre tron filmography look like? Where he would say, nah, this isn't for me. Yeah, and it could just be something that's simple too. He looked at the script and say this is just not for me. I get it. You know, maybe he wanted nothing to do with surfing, so that's why it turned him off. No things.

14:31 Well, I'll tell you someone who had nothing to do with surfing was Gary Busey. He's playing Leroy Smith. Bucy learned how to surf just to do this movie. And you couldn't tell because he looks that good. He looks that good. This is a big year for the Tulsa, Oklahoma native. He learns how to surf for Big Wednesday. Meanwhile, he's learning to sing and play the guitar for his Oscar nominated performance as Buddy Holly and the Buddy Holly Story that you got. You guys covered that, yep. And he's amazing and Buddy h he is so amazing Buddy Holly. But then you see this movie, it's this is coming out. I think this one comes out in May. Buddy Holly come out in September. Yep. It's incredible that he is this good. He looks this good on a surfboard. He's having fun. This is I mean this, this is a fun character.

15:16 It is absolutely is and you could tell he was totally into that character. Yeah, and I don't mean to turn this into an outsider's podcast. But but he gives me. He reminds me a lot of two bit uh Milius as his character. Yeah, he's the clown of the group. You know, he's what's the what's the the nickname he gives himself. He wears it on the back of his shirt. He's the the the misfit or the enforcer, something like that. It's something that I can't remember that I can't remember it. It's funny. Uh. I mentioned I mentioned Tulsa, Oklahoma because he's from you know, he's from Tulsa and jam Michael Vincent's character tells Bucy's character he has an Oklahoma attitude? Yeah, did you catch At the beginning? I was like, I said, why would he say that. That's a weird thing. That's like UC's kind of come plaining about something. And Vincent says, that's at Oklahoma attitude of yours. That's weird, man.

16:04 It is. Yeah, good old Bucy. I don't know about you, but after seeing Bucy in this, I could not wait to watch Point Break, you know, because he's in Point Break. Yeah, and I mean he doesn't do any surfing in it, but still it's a surf movie. It's exactly that involves Gary Busey. It's almost like Lee Roy grows up after Big Wednesday, he grows up, joins the Academy, you know, he becomes Angelo Pappus. How about this, Dave, could you imagine if Point Break was made in nineteen seventy eight and Bucy would have been been the Johnny Utah character, then oh wow, yeah you would have. I mean he would have looked good, he would have looked fantastic. And yeah, he would have one other there's a couple other people. I got to talk about this one. It's a bit ahead. Listen, it's a bit of a head scratcher for me. I'm not taking anything away from the performance. Yeah, Sam Melville plays Bear. So Mileys had intended to play this part himself but realized it was too big for him. So Tommy Lee Jones, who at that point was doing One Life to Live, just coming off Rolling Thunder nineteen seventy seven, he reads for it. Robert Duvall, who is an obviously is an accomplished actor. He's a television star at this point, he's got he's had big film roles, and The Godfather one and two he's just coming off network. They both auditioned for the role and they don't get it,

17:36 and this guy, Sam Melville does, and I just don't. I don't get I don't like Maybe Tommy Lee Jones, you don't give it to him because maybe he just hasn't done enough. But Robert Duvall wants to play Bear, and you turn him down and you give it to Sam Melville. Melville like the only thing I looked it up, the only thing I had seen him, and I really don't remember Scarecrow Missus King. But here's the thing. Sometimes you want to take that chance on a no name. You want to take a chance because a lot of people don't know who that is. But let's be honest here, we don't know what happened in the casting room. That's true. You know, maybe the director saw something in Sam that he didn't see in Robert, even though Robert is a very very good actor. By no means am I going to take that away from him.

18:23 But maybe he just wanted that freshness that Sam brought. The other thing I noticed, if you look at this guy in the movie, he looks a lot like nineteen seventies john My Lace. Oh yeah, so maybe John's just look at him going, yeah, that's the guy. Yeah, he's I don't know. But and again I'm not taking anything away from his performance. I thought Bear was an incredible character. Loved that he was. You know, this movie kind of goes through the seasons. You know, we even get like the title cards, the chapter the ches fantastic, which is fantastic. I really enjoyed that, and I like that Bear is kind of ever changing with those chapters and his life falls apart. It's a complete reversal of Matt. Complete reversal. Yeah. I just cracked together at the beginning of this movie. And then he has his own serf shop, creating the Bear, the Bear, which is real, Jeff, and it's still to this day real. We okay, uh, I'll put a pin in that because I don't want to that. We'll come back to that in just a minute here. But I I gotta say that the end Bear broke my heart when he was on the dock, came out to visit him, to talk to him. That that did break my heart. You're right, I didn't.

19:41 I knew his life was calling apart because we've already seen a little bit of that and they were talking about it that he had lost his wife, he lost his serf shop at that point, and Matt was doing his best to get in, Hey, come on, come on, come come with family, you know, come with us, you know, well, you know, come place somewhere warm, you know, and safe. But he just didn't one anything to do with it. Man. But I mean, well, that was that broke my heart. But it broke my heart in a good way. At the end when the one kid looks at him and says, you a surfer, and he's like, no, I'm just a garbage. I'm just a garbage. Yeah, that was pretty sad too. But he has he has like he has this this smile on his face and he's you can tell he's so full of pride, like you're you're, like I said, my heart's breaking for him in that moment, but in a way where I feel like he's going to be he's redeemed. You know, he's gonna he's gonna be okay. Right, well, even even to go, you know, that was really sad. And the you know, the scene I was talking about two with the docks building up to that point, you know, Matt went out there, you know, he's basically a Bears was more concerned about Leroy and Jack showing up than anything else. And you know, basically Matt finally had had it, you know, and he says, you know they aren't coming, you know, they're they are gone. It's it's just us. It's over. You know. That's a whole sequence right there. I mean, luckily, you know, Jack and Lee Roy do show up, which was a really cool scene in itself. But yeah, man, my heart broke completely for Bear. Yeah, really did well.

21:12 One more person that we need to address is this Freddy Krueger. I'm talking about Fly that's right, who happens to be played by a guy who played Freddy Krueger. What in the heck is Robert England doing in this movie? No, but I tell you the funniest moment I saw him is when they were all in line to go into the military. Did you see him? He's got the cup and the cane and he's yeah, that's another thing I want. I want to talk about that scene here in a minute. I'll tell you what. Let's let's take a quick break and when we get back, we'll get into this film a little bit more and we'll talk about some of these scenes. So we're back talking about Big Wednesday, brought to our attention by listener Trev Lewis. Trevor, thank you again, absolutely, thank you so much for let me see this film, because I would have never have got everyone never would have got this one. Milas writes the script with his friend and fellow surfer Danny Aberg, who we mentioned earlier. It's based off a short story that Aberg published in Surfer Magazine in nineteen seventy four titled No Pants Mance, about a group of friends who used to surf. Dave.

22:21 This is very personal. This is very autobiographical for Milas, and you can see it. Yeah, he's like a lot of his experiences are put into this movie. H Mileas. He has a bit of a he's known, you know he he he says some things sometimes that maybe he shouldn't. You know who he is though, that's who he is. I gotta, I know, I know we'll get to a quote from mylas, but I gotta I gotta drop this milest quote here he once said, quote because I surfed. I'm the only director in the world who could have made this picture. And I can tell you it's so hard. No one will ever make it again, Okay, all right, I mean he's not really known in nineteen seventy eight, Dillinger basically. Yeah, it's kind of a smack in the face and towards a lot of big directors at the time. Right.

23:18 Yeah, Well, I mean, and so much fell a part on this film too, Oh gosha, I mean the whole second unity they sent to El Salvador to film the big surfing and then the waves didn't show up, and then their equipment got stolen and the military was giving him a hard way to go. How much it cost us, dude, to what half a million dollars just down the drain? Yeah? What they get? Like, they got like what three minutes for minute? It wasn't very much. Oh, i'd be the studio execs. You know, that's that's almost something that would just shut an entire production down. You know, you're done, it's over. How this didn't get shut down again? Yeah? He is not a big, no, well known director at this point in his career. Yeah. The script originally titled We Are Gods not popular with Warner Brothers.

24:07 Uh yeah, so Milas he approaches Surfer Magazine founder John Severson, to acquire the naming rights from his nineteen sixty one surf film Big Wednesday, which you talked about. I'm kind of curious. I wonder they have that that shot where Matt takes his family to see the surf documentary that he's in. Yeah, is that is that the sixty one Big Week? Believe is? I think that is? It has to be right, Yeah, I think that's cool. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't confirm that, but I want that to be true. Honestly. Back to the studio and they're they're their their unhappiness with this, so they set the budget for five million dollars. Malia spends more than double that, with the final budget coming in at eleven million. And I thought this was fantastic. In a Boston Globe interview in nineteen eighty one, one of the the executives said the film was quote a classic example of an egomaniacal man going over budget and not listening to anyone.

25:11 How did he get away with it? He again, he made a big hit. Yeah, I don't know how. There's no way you would get away with that today. There's no way back then. I mean, it's it's hard to say, but I mean, let's look at Steven Spielberg here, who pushed his way into Hollywood on his own, just getting his own office on Universal. So I mean, I guess this was a time period it was a little bit easy. This well, it's it's the time of the Mavericks. Yeah, right, this is Hollywood's changing. You know, these directors are they're doing whatever they want. Like look at Coppola when he's making Apocalypse Now. I mean he will talk about a film completely getting away from a studio and you know which I may want to, you know, tell the viewers that is coming up at a film at forty five, Oh, Scott, and I'll be talking about you guys listen. I know there's only so much I can make you do, but I was I was hoping that that was going to be a just an automatic that you have to do. Apocalypse Now excellent. I can't wait for you guys to cover that one. You mentioned the Bear brand surfboards, yes, sir so, which was created for this film. Yeah, but Jeff, please enlighten us on where this went. This is incredible. Milas makes he creates the Bear brand surfboards out of he just comes up with it, and this movie comes out and it explodes in popularity, and everyone is wanting a Bear brand surfboard.

26:33 They're wanting the T shirts because, like you see, there's Bear brand merchandise all over the place. There's a huge demand for it. Everyone wants that logo on their board. So Milas turns it into a real company and it's still in business today to this day, still and going strong. Yeah, you know what bums me out though. I immediately looked it up because I was like, I gotta have a I gotta have a Bear Surfboards T shirt. And I know I can get one, but it's like a European company. Yeah, So like I'm looking, I'm like, well, I don't want the dollar two euro equivalent it is. But either this shirt's gonna be a heck of a bargain or I'm gonna spend like one hundred and fifty dollars on a T shirt. I don't know, but I might have to find out. I think we need some Bears barrow a T shirts man. Yeah.

27:21 He Uh. Filming locations you mentioned Salvador. They also shot Hollister Ranch near Santa Barbara. They're in Malibu, obviously, film takes place in Malibu, Ventura. Most notably, though, it's Sunset Beach in Hawaii where they filmed that big epic epic for Now. Oh man, have you ever seen more gorgeous film when it comes to surf? No, I haven't. You know, In watching those scenes at the end of that movie, I was just pulled into the movie just in awe at the cinematography here weeks. Yeah, it was so impressive. Yeah, that's one thing I didn't expect.

28:02 I knew we you know, we'd see some surfing, but I didn't know that we were going to be out in the water with them. I didn't either. There's one shot that just blew me away, and it's the shot where Matt was on his board and the wave was overtaking him. Yeah, and the camera was just going through the wave pipeline as the wave is coming right over the top of the camera. Dude, that was so incredibly well done. I don't know about you. I watched this on Amazon. Could you imagine seeing a four K blu ray of this film? Gorgeous and it needs to be done. If it's not done yet, I hope someone does it. Yeah, please absolutely. Jeff I want to talk about a little bit about the h you mentioned earlier about the chapters and how this story was broken up. I thought that was really unique on how they did this.

28:47 I mean, I know some movies have done that, the whole chapter thing, but you know, we've got what five chapters I believe is Yeah, and it's all about the swell. Yeah, it's like the Southwell, the West Swell, the Northwell, the Great Swell, and then of course Big Wednesday, Big Wednesday, which is at the end of the film. And I just I love how they just broke it down that way and you could just see the changes. It was almost like the changes of the seasons. It's the changes of the swells. Yeah, you see as the film progresses. I thought that was written extremely well. Didn't you love Cat's narration also where he's he's explaining to us we get the title card of what the swell is in the year yeah, and Cat gives us this amazing explanation on what that swell is and what the weather's like. Yeah, And I love that it kind of translates to the time in these three guys' lives, it does, and what they're going through. Yeah. And as they as they're aging.

29:41 You know, this is it's like whatever, like the course of ten years, I think this story unfolds. Yeah, it went from sixty two to I think like seventy four, twelve years that. Yeah, there was there's one narration. I don't remember which swell it was. I want to say it was the West Swell it was. It was it was the West Well where he says things are changing and he said swell that you have to do alone. Yeah, you know that tells you right there on just the changes of things that are happening for everybody. Jeff, it happens to all of us, right, Oh, absolutely, you know it's what this film is about. I mean, we all have this group of friends that we had when we were young, right. Granted we probably weren't all, but you know, very similar situations. Manah, I mean we were all young.

30:22 We were all partying, having a good time. Life was great. Yeah, this is it's this is This film is stand by Me with surfboards. It's exactly what it is. Yeah. Oh man, just like that movie has an amazing soundtrack. I hit you up. I was not even halfway through watching it for my first watch. Yeah, and I was already blowing you up saying this soundtrack. We got to talk about this soundtrack. Okay, So first off, the score is composed by one of my favorites real yeah, oh yeah, regular collaborator with Miless, good old Basil is it was Basil Politerius, terrible. We're probably butchering his name, but I've always thought it was pullod Ors. It might be Polodar. I hope he's pullod Or. So I sound good, but it sounds really cool. I don't care what it is, but no, mean, his music was fantastic.

31:14 His music is fantastic. And this is one of those amazing moments where a composer, We've talked about this recently too, a composer takes existing popular music and kind of blends his his score into it. We talked about that John right now. I discussed that h with with Tyler Bates on the Atomic Lond soundtrack. Listen to this. If you haven't seen this movie, and Dave, I would, I told I think I told you something like this one gives Forrest Gump a run for the money. It gives stand by Me a run for the money. Listen to this lineup, and I know some of our listeners that like classics and the oldies, they'll definitely appreciate this one. So throughout this movie we're gonna get treated to What I Say by Ray Charles, the Locomotion by Little Eva, Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?

32:06 By The Charell's Sherry by Frankie Valley, in the Four Seasons, Green Onions by Booker t which I I've been in love with that piece of music since the Sandlot used it. We Got Money, That's what I Want by the by Barrett Strong, and The Twist by Chubby Checker. And I know I'm leaving a couple of them out, but that is that's a hell That's a hell of a lineup for a movie that takes place in the in the sixties. I will argue that it is a great lineup, great music. And you're right if you if you love oldies, you're gonna love listening to these in this movie. I still feel that staying by Me and Forrest Compon did it better? Okay, Hey, that's fair. I'm just saying this is you got to put this in the conversation because now that I know it exists, I'm like, yeah, have you heard Big Wednesday? Right now.

32:53 That's that's what I'm out with it. And it's funny is when you made that comment to me before I had seen it, I was anticipating it, and they say, oh, here we go. Yeah. I believe your response was we'll see laugh out loud. I was like, yeah, we'll see who laughs last pal. No, it was a really good lineup, good music all around. A couple of scenes I want to talk about. In the beginning. We get the house party at Jack's. I heard you're having a party the whole time. Everybody comes up and then they don't even know it and he didn't even know them a party. I love that. I love that she's like, who are all these people? He's like, I don't know her, poor house, allowing your son to have your party in your house. And it turns into is this woman is this woman the coolest mom on the planet? Absolutely she is. She's she's just what.

33:40 She's upstairs reading a book in her room. Crashes are going downstairs, fights are going on. Let's talk about that fight real quick. Uh. Swite Tech from Miami Vice walks in and he's clearly like one of the squares, like he just like all these all these squares show up yep to crash there and then it's like party crashers, Like you get this epic rumble where the the squares are going up against the surfers. I'm like, what what what movie am I watching? Like? This is crazy? Man? It was, and it kind of reminded me a little bit of an Animal House, a little bit like it's as crazy as it got. But I got a question for you, though, Why was Leeroy wanting to bake himself? I ucy is getting lathered up in what like crisco or something like grease. He's like, he's like like ramming speed. He is diving into the oven.

34:39 I again, he is the he's the clown of the group, piece of the funny one. But man, I'll tell you what. He walks out to fight, all greased up. He looks like he's ready for the UFC. He's ready to go. There's no doubt about that. You know what you mentioned Animal House? I just mentioned UFC, and I just realized put put a pin in those two where because I got I got something on both of those. All right, looking forward to it, I'll tell you what I'm not looking forward to ever. Tijuana Tijuana is not a good time. Ain't what they did in that car. There's another point in this movie that broke my freaking heart because apparently that car was the nineteen fifty two Chrysler Saratoga Town and Country. I've never seen one before. I hadn't either, but apparently they only made thirteen hundred of them, Jeff, and so in twenty twenty that car would be extremely valuable. To this day, it would be extremely valuable. And they destroy it, and they destroyed it in that movie.

35:42 Oh my heart broke. Did you catch the cameo in Tijuana? Maybe I missed it? What is it? Do you remember the marijuana dealer that tried to sell them some weed? That's John Milis? Was that that was him? I missing it? Okay? He didn't feel like he was right for the part of bear weed dealer in Tijuana. Is something he feels he can handle is what he can handle it? Clearly, all right, clearly he can handle it. That that scene, though, like I'm watching, I'm like, yeah, I'm never going to Tijuan because this is a movie. Like you remember a LaBamba, you know, Bob takes Richie to Tijuana? Looked like it was a good time. You know, woke up in a in a TP with a tattoo and strange Native American. But Jeff Arluck, we wake up with a kidney missing. So let's yeah, yeah after if I was thinking Tijuana after La Bamba, I'm definitely not thinking Tijuana after Big Wednesday. We talked about you kind of when we were talking about Robert England. We started to get in on induction day. These guys, this is ridiculous. They're they're faking physical and mental disabilities, They're faking homosexuality.

36:49 Uh, Nazi propaganda. Everyone's doing it. Besides Jack, you know William Cat He's there, he's again, He's on the office. Yeah, taking it serious again being the leader at that point. And why is Leroy combing his hair with a fish? Let's let's talk about Lee Roy, Let's talk about let's talk about Gary Busey versus Joe Spanell. I. Spanell's one of those seventies character actors. In the eighties, you know Gazo from Rocky, he was a was he Frank Zito in Maniac I remember in Taxi Driver, He's he's always popping up that scene where Bucy is just trying to push his buttons, like by taking the cigarettes and then just lighting them, dropping on yeah, don't take my lighter, don't take my life. And then he just goes crazy and then they have to like carry him out of there.

37:37 Basically, well, yeah, it kind of goes it. You know, it doesn't work out too well for him because they literally strap him down there and they take him to the the to the hospital. Like he oversold himself on that one. Yeah. Uh that scene though, Like you gotta wonder how often is that happening? Uh during the Vietnam back then? The Yeah, even Matt Johnson, who at that point where we're like, okay, he's he's kind of getting himself back together. Yea, even he's like faking leg injuries and how long he wanted this? Uh this what was it? Like that metal brace he had on? Yeah, you know he's he's making them hit him before he walks in. It's just ridiculous, it is. I think the one that we got to talk about mostly though, is is Big Wednesday talking about the chapters. Yeah, the finale of the Man again, the epic surfing that was caught on film. Those waves were gigantic, Jeff, Like they scared me they were so big because I'm like, I cannot imagine if I was out there in the middle of that no, thank you, no way. That makes the fact like they do this heroes walk.

38:40 It's almost like they're the It's like Gunfighter, the Ok Corral or the Magnificent Seven. Yeah. Yeah, everyone is lined up on the on the shore, the police or everyone get out, stay out, and these guys come walking up like they're I mean, they're they're doing like the hero walk. I can't I can't call anything other than that. Yeah, exactly what it And Jeff, that brings up another point that I would like to make right here, we have the complete opposite of Matt's character here. Remember at the beginning of the film, he could barely make it through that gate, down those broken steps, and they told him, you have to do this on your own. But he barely could do it because he was so enimberated, and you know, he had to do it on his own. Here at the end, he's got everything together again. You know, he's not drunk anymore, he's not an alcohol and he comes down them steps and I love that shot as he comes down the steps, and then we get Leroy and Jack come out from the side of the screen to meet him. I love that. It's so great that that moment, this scene is worth a three ninety nine. You'll spin on Amazon Prime to rent it as far as I'm concerned. Also, did you catch another another cameo there? They kind of allude to this guy, Jerry Lopez. Jerry Lopez is a real person.

39:57 He is one of the greatest surfers of all time. He's a two time Pipeline Master's Champion. Actually, and that was really him out there too, really him out there. He's playing himself. He goes on. He kind of pops up in Meloe films before, like, I recognize him immediately because hes Suba Thai and Conan and the barbarian. That's where it was like, you're right, yeah, I was like, well, you know, and if you also get that because everybody was focused on him when he was coming into the parking lot and Matt's like looking around at him, you know, because that used to be Matt. Remember, Yeah, that was Matt. Everybody was focused on Matt when he showed up. But now no, not anymore. Dave. Let's take one more break and then uh we'll we'll catch another wave here with the with John Milis. We'll talk about a little bit about John Milss himself. All right, we're back, dave a couple of things about John Milis. Yeah, and then I got a great quote for you. So first off, he wrote, we know he's this amazing writer. He's written more than he's dire. He wrote the line go ahead, make my day for Clint Eastwoods, dirty, hairy character and sudden impact.

41:07 As well as the USS Indianapolis scene in Jawles. Wow, that is mindless. That is huge because we know what that seems like. That that might be pound for pound, that might be one of the greatest scenes in a film ever. Oh yeah, and he's the guy giving us that that speech. That's pretty impressive. Yeah, more impressive. He's a close friend of the Gracie family, so much so he was one of the original founders of the UFC. It was actually his suggestion that they make the Ring an octagon. Wow. Yeah, we talked talked UFC earlier. Yeah, so how about that. Man, he's really got a lot going on besides movies.

41:53 Yeah, that's pretty impressive. This one. Once I read this, you can't unsee it. It's so obvious. He's also he's he's close friends with the Cohen brothers. The character of Walter and the big Lebowski, they wrote that as him. They just named him Walter because they could't call him JHN Miles. When you see think about think about Goodman in that role. How much he looks like John Milis now. And he's wearing the the like the fisherman's jacket with all the AMMO packs and all that stuff. He's always got guns. He's you know, it's just amazing. Here's a here's a good quote for you because he has this is what this is a guy who always has something to say. Mm hm h. And I like, I was like, you know what, let's find a quote, a good Milas quote. I was like, you know what, there's a lot of good ones out there, but let's focus on something for this movie. So when it comes to Big Wednesday, he said quote. When I did Big Wednesday, my first impressions were that I was going to do this coming of age story with Arthurian overtones about surfers that nobody took seriously, their troubled lives made larger than life by their experience with the sea. And that's what the movie is it never straight from that. There was a lot of pressure to make it more like Animal House. But the movie has a huge following now because it did have loftier ambitions. It wasn't just a story about somebody trying to ride the biggest wave or something that's not enough. So again, even in

43:27 something even in that paragraph that he that I just read that he you know his words. Yeah, you can tell just how passionate he was for for this story. Yeah. Absolutely. It's funny that he mentions the Animal House as we mentioned that earlier. Yeah, that's when you said, when you said Animal housees like, oh, I got something about Animalhouse for you. Wait, wait to hear what he says about this. Let's talk a little bit about his philmography though, Oh, he's got some good stuff. He's got some great stuff. You know. We again we talked about how much of a amazing writer he is. But let's focus on his films. As I said, he I think Dillinger was the first movie that kind of put him on the map. In nineteen seventy three, one of Tarantino's favorite films.

44:10 By the way, he thinks of Dillinger, QT said it was probably his best work, you know, not his favorite picture, but is definitely his best. The Wind in the Wind in the Lion nineteen seventy five. Did you happen to catch that one? I have seen that movie, but it's been a really long time and knew was was that Sean Connery? That was that was Sean Connery, Cannis Bergen, fran Keith John Houston's in it. Yeah, like it takes place in the desert and he's like, I forgot the kind of role he is. But she goes out there and I guess they fall in love and like, yeah, oh, it's all about it's all about Roosevelt. Roosevelt. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, it's like he's like a chieftain. Uh that's what. There's a big, big situation happens Theodore Roosevelt gets involved, you know. Yeah, that's right.

45:05 I think it's worth a rewatch. I haven't seen it probably since I was a little kid, and probably didn't like it because you think because I think I'm like you. I thought it when I was a kid, and I didn't appreciate what I was watching. Yeah, and watching it now, as much as I love history and stuff, I would get a lot more out of it now for sure. Well, his next two films I did see as a kid, and I definitely appreciated both of them, I hope, and to this day I appreciate him. Nineteen eighty two Conan the Barbario. Oh yeah, that's score, that score by Bazipolados. Yep again, I hope I'm saying that right. Yeah, forgive us if we're not. Could you believe me we are fans of his work. I mean I couldn't. I couldn't imagine this movie not happening without Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh yeah, no, not at all. And I think when I was doing my homework on my this, he even said, if Arnold Schwartzeninger didn't exist, they would have had to go make him, meaning like we'll go into the gyms, we'll find someone, because he was wanting someone larger than life. This is this is kind of the beginning. You know, I know, Steve Reid's had did it and like the you know, Hercules goes to New York and that kind of stuff. Correct, But this is you know, this is still the seventies, late seventies where the ideal male hero looks like Chuck Heston.

46:22 You know, just kind of lean. So this is like I think Conan is what starts the whole bulging muscles and biceps. Yeah, man, codin the Barbarian and just makes me fall in love with this sword and sandal kind of thing. And you know that that that period, It just I love it because it made me fall in love with the beast Master thanks to Cone. Yeah, I'll say this from my money. When you're talking fantasy like swords and sandals, fantasy stuff, Conan is the best. Yeah, there's some great ones in that in that genre, but yes, Conan is the ultimate. Let's talk nineteen eighty four. What I'm gonna say is my all time favorite war film. I'm sure you're talking about Red Dawn, Red don another memorable score. I mean, this is the brat This is a different kind of brat pack, you know. But think think of the lineup in Red Dawn. I mean, and I hate to think that anyone out there has never seen Red Dawn, but Patrick Swayze, Charlie Sheen, Leah Thompson, Tommy Howe, Jennifer Gray. Yeah, this is this is Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Gray A couple of years before Dirty Dancing this is Think about this. When this movie came out, It's not that every kid wanted it.

47:45 It's that every kid hoped Russia was dumb enough to invade. Come on, we all want to be Wolfverine. We all wanted to be woo want. Every one of us wanted to take our dad's shotgun and go off into the woods and and fight and fight Russians. Yeah, this film powers booth, by the way, playing the the pilot, play the pilot. Yeah, ah man, there's a lot in that film. I can't. I I could, we could. We could turn this into Red don Red real quick. You know Harry Dean's Danton Boys. Avenge me. You know what I'm gonna say it. Red Dawn is celebrating its fortieth anniversary. I'll go ahead and tell you we are doing a Red Dawn episode on Patreon. I hope so this fall our buddy deaf Dave stop by, because I know he's he's a bit of a fan of this movie too. Yeah, I'm gonna do it justice. I'll tell you what. Come November, we're gonna get the shotguns. I'm gonna grab a couple of days, go up in the mountains, go up in the Mountains do a podcast on Red Don's fortieth anniversary.

48:52 That sounds like a good time to count count on it, Man, count on It a Red Dawn he did. He did some episodes on twilight Zone nineteen ninety one. We let's let's head it. In the nineties ninety ninety one he does a Flight of the Intruder with Danny Glover. Yep, it's been for ever since. I don't remember too much about that film. Listen. I don't know why that movie doesn't get talked about more. Yeah, because doing doing research for this, I was like, oh, hey, that's on Max or no, what on Max? It was on a Paramount plus correct. Yeah. I was like, I'm watching it. It holds up. It's a good movie. Willem Defoe. You got Roseanna cat.

49:32 It's got a great cat. Great cat that. Yeah, and just you know, the the the the idea of the plot. You know, it's a Vietnam Vietnam war and uh Obamba pilot does a kind of does an unauthorized air strike on Hanoi. Yeah, so I'll send him more. Yeah, you can watch it, and you know, not saying what they did was right, well, of course, but I'm saying, so I endraw your own conclusions. Uh, you know the sad thing here is that's kind of as far as the director goes, that's kind of like the end.

50:13 He does a couple of TV movies, does the Rough Riders the mini series he wrote? Didn't he write Geronimo the American Legend? American Legend? With West Study. I want to say, I want to say you're right, because I like that film. Again, a history buff that am was is always a big fan of that one. Got it. That's a very unusual score too, highly recommend that movie. Well, let's see. Uh, you know, I'm gonna make time for this. He wrote Magnum Force. Oh yeah, he wrote Apocalypse Now he gave he gave Spielberg the story for nineteen forty one. Yeah, which you know you already took Spilberg's Close Encounters money. You don't have to you don't have to give him. You don't have to, you don't have to back. You don't have to add insult to injury with give him that terrible movie. I know, I know a couple listeners that follow us that well, that we happen to know that.

51:01 He also did some TV work for Mimmy Vice did some writing, Baby Vice. Yeah, and I think he did. Didn't he do Lonesome Dove? I don't think so. I'm not seeing it here you are right there. Nineteenth ninety three, he does Geronimo, an American legend. Yes, he wrote the screenplay for Clear and Present Danger. He worked on Rome, the TV series Hbos Rome Ethic Series. Yeah, so he's he's keeping busy. But man, i'd love to see him at his age. I don't know that he's gonna direct anymore. But no, And it's unfortunate because you know, we always talk about what we would want to see from the director.

51:43 I really wanted to see another Conehan. Jeff. Well, I know we couldn't get it with Arnold anymore. I mean we can't. Kind of, yes, let's let's just do this. So as far as like what's next or what we want to see, he is in pre production. He's credited as the writer for a movie called Ginghis Khan. Yeah, so obviously he's in his will house there. He is, absolutely, but before it's too late, for the love of God, please give us give us King Conan Crown of Iron. He was working on it in the early two thousands. I know, I know, Dave, it's time to complete the trilogy. It is, it started, it started any too. Let's let's let's bring it full circle. I agree, and think about this, the the the epilogue to Conan the Barbarian. You see Arnold, Old and Gray sitting in the thorn on the throne. It would make sense. We could do that now. We could totally do that right now. And listen, I get it. If you don't have the energy to direct, but he could write this. We could give it to any number of amazing directors out there and and let Arnold play it absolutely. You know, he's We've been talking about this surf movie. Catherine Bigelow gives us one of the greatest surf movies with Point Break. Could you imagine a Catherine Bigelow directed King Conan starring Arnold with a screenplay by John Miliss. That would be pretty fantastic. I would be all over watching that one, for sure. That's a layup. Come on,

53:14 get your act together, right, Yeah, Dave. Sadly, it's not streaming no anywhere, but you can rent it. You can rent, and it's worth a rent. It's definitely worth the rent. Going back My only regret is, you know, Amazon Prime gives you the option you can rent it or you can buy it. Kind of wish I would have bought this. Yeah, and it wasn't that much more to buy it. It's like ten bucks. Yeah, I should have bought it too. Yeah, your recommendation, would do you go go rent it? Watch this film? You know it caught me by surprise. I'm glad it was recommended to us to watch this because I never would have seen this film if it wasn't. You know, hey, can we do this? And thanks for that? Yeah, it's worth it. Trevor Lewis listening to us in the United Kingdom.

53:55 Ye, had it not been for him reaching out, we would not have seen this amazing John Milis movie. And you know clearly we love his work, So you had a home run for us. Absolutely, Big Wednesday. As far as I'm concerned, it's it's all about the transition we make from innocence to adulthood. Absolutely. The characters navigate their way through the carefree days of house parties and surfing, the responsibilities of marriage, parenting, the war, to the understanding that while times change, friendships, they don't know. So that's it. Might not be my favorite John Milers film, but it may just be his best work. I think I can say that, So if you haven't seen it, I recommend this one. As listeners, what do you think of Big Wednesday in John Milis's work? You can let us know on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for all of our episodes, which are streaming free on the platform of your choice. You can write to us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some a film by swag, or maybe we'll just take your suggestion and do an episode like we did for trav Lewis, who did just that. He emailed us and let us know what he thought. So well. Join us tomorrow for our Star Trek theme series, Phasers Set the Stun, Wayne, David, and Scott are continuing their recap of Discovery's final season. What is

55:30 like the eighth episode tomorrow? Yeah? Wow, you guys are burning through that speed right, He's only ten episodes, so we're getting close to the end of it. Yeah, I'm you guys almost got me convinced to check out Discovery. I'm I'm on the I'm on the edge. They had a rough couple of seasons, but this season's been pretty solid. Okay, yep, all right, excellent. Well, before you get back to the bridge. On Friday, our limited series nineteen ninety six returns with a look young Leonardo DiCaprio and a tale of Starcross lovers and tragedy in Baz Lorman's Romeo and Juliet. And next time on a film by something wicked This way comes when Amber Lewis and I talk about a film by George Miller, his nineteen eighty seven supernatural comedy The Witches of Eastwick. Dave, it's always a pleasure, man, always. Thanks for having me, absolutely, And to those of you listening, hitting the like subscribe and follow buttons, And to all of you subscribing or following our Patreon for the exclusive content, we thank you.