Oct. 28, 2024

Joseph Ruben - Dreamscape

Joseph Ruben - Dreamscape
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Season 5A Film By...

David and Scott welcome our friend, Def Dave from the Apples & Oranges Podcast to discuss one of 1984's underrated sci-fi horror films, Dreamscape!

Check out CATnipmoviecampaign.com for your chance to get involved with the upcoming Christmas horror film CATnip! Donate to the campaign for your chance to win some awesome upgrades! Be sure to type "A Film By" in the comment section of your pledge!

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WEBVTT

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Hey everybody. Jeff Johnson here from a Film By podcast

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with some exciting news before you start today's episode. This Friday,

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November first, at seven pm, will be joined by actress

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Tiffany Helm and writer director Nio cavosos Garcia talking about

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their new Christmas horror movie, Catnip. It's being called Grimlins

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for grownups, featuring a ferocious band of feral killer cats

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and the best part is you can be involved in

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this production. The Catnip Kickstarter campaign is live right now,

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and during Friday's episode, the cat Nippers will be offering

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a contest for all the viewers who contribute money to

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their campaign. One lucky winner will be drawn for a

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perk package upgrade. You donate one hundred dollars, you could

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be awarded the perks from the two hundred fifty dollars package.

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Donate two hundred and fifty dollars and you could get

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the five hundred dollars perks and so on. So make

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sure you tune in this Friday at seven pm, and remember,

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when you're donating to the Catnip movie, include the phrase

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a film buy in the comments of your Kickstarter pledge

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to participate in this cool contest. The website is Catnipmovie

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campaign dot com. Just click on the link you'll find

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in today's show notes and join us this Friday, November first,

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at seven pm. You don't want to miss this conversation

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or this contest, David.

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You and I go way back all the time when

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we chat about movies.

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We do.

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But this time, let's go back to the year nineteen

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eighty four for once. Okay, so we're heading to the

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theater to see a new movie about someone with the

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power to invade your dreams and make sure you don't

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wake up ever again. Sounds familiar, right, pretty Krueger. Right, Well,

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this killer isn't stuck in the Elm Street kids. Now.

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He's an assassin for the government and his next victim

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might be the best President. Oh okay, let's talk about

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a film by Joseph Rubin and his underrated classic Dreamscape.

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Hello everybody, I'm Scott Hoffman.

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I'm David Burns, and this is a film.

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By podcast David. I want to start by thanking a

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few of our Patreon members as usual, specifically our friend

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and fellow star Trek fan Chuck Bryan, who recently became

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a full fledged Patreon member. I also want to thank

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Chuck and another Patreon member, Amanda Janic for their amazing

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guest spots on our nineteen eighty six episode Deadly Friend.

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We'll be sending us some a film by swag their

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way pretty soon, listeners. For those of you who want

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to access our exclusive episodes and content through Patreon, just

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head on over to patreon dot com slash a Film

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by a Podcast to subscribe today. All you need is

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an email addressed to get accessed to our free episodes,

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and if you want more, you can access all the

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rest for as little as three dollars a month. We're

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doing several episodes a month and we've got a lot

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more coming soon. But before we go too much further,

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I'm also happy to welcome a very special guest back

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with us. You've often heard him here with us at

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a film buy and he's also the host of the

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Apples and Oranges podcast, mister David Wright. Welcome deaf Dave.

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We thank you, thank you very much. I'm happy to

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be here. I'm excited to talk about Dreamscape with you.

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Any movie from nineteen eighty four. I am down for

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a conversation. It is hashtag best year ever.

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So I hear I love.

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I love absolutely everything about nineteen eighty four, especially all

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the movies that came out that year. Thank you for

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mentioning Apples and Oranges. I had a lot of fun

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with that. We actually it was a limited run program.

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We ran from February to August of this year. It

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was a podcast that I produced and hosted with my

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eighteen year old son, And as the name might imply,

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we were comparing things, but we were comparing the discographies

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of the Beatles and the Beach Boys, stepping through the

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decade of the sixties, matching albums up against each other

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in like a series of one v one formats, and

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then casting a final judgment. So anybody that listens to

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the album episodes of Surely Can't Be Serious will recognize

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the format. But we had a lot of fun doing that.

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I learned about the Beatles, and I presented the Beach Boys,

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and I think, well, I hope I brought to light

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was how it's such a it is a fair and

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equal comparison, and the music is deeper, at least on

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part of the Beach Boys than most people suspect. So

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we had a lot of fun doing that, and I

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would encourage everybody to check it out, whether you're a

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fan of bands or if you're just a fan of

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the Beatles and you've and you've kind of had a

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negative attitude toward the Beach Boys, which is something I

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encounter a lot. Let this show be your tour guide.

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That's fantastic. Well, we heard that Dreamscape would be one

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that you'd love to discuss. What does this movie mean

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to you?

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Well, to be honest, when I wasn't you you threw

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me off by saying this was about Dreamscape because Jeff

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told me we were gonna do a movie that involved

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the story of the introduction of the PG thirteen rating

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with a Drew Truzann poster that came out in eighty

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four with Kate Kepshaw is it with the scene of

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someone getting their heart ripped out? And I was like,

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of course, I would be happy to talk about Indiana

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Jones and the Temple of Doom. No, so you're throwing

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me off with a Dreamscape there. But I do like Dreamscape.

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I think this retroactively has connections to a lot of

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movies that people maybe not necessarily think about it. It

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brings to mind to me everything from Nightmare on Elm

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Street to inception, And I think there's a lot of

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ideas that got picked up later in perhaps higher profile

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movies that we're seeing this movie do first. And so

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it's really kind of a cool, little hidden gem of

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like cool ideas, and it has a stellar cast. So

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I'm a big fan of this movie.

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Yeah, I can definitely see a lot of kind of

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connected universe theories that well, we'll definitely get into a

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little bit later, but yeah, those same things were popping

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off my head when I was rewatching this David for

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those who might not know, since it didn't get a

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lot of traction in the theater unfortunately when it was

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first out. How would you sum this movie up?

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So into a world beyond your wild imagination where anything

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can happen. Alex Gardner is gifted and a wanted man,

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wanted by an old friend for his psychic abilities. It

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seems that his old friend, doctor Novotni, has discovered something

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that was once thought in impossibility. It seems someone with

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a little help can psychically project themselves into someone's dreams

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and once then can be an active participant within it. However,

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there is more to this than anyone could imagine and

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Alex is soon to discover just what that is fantastic.

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I don't know about you, David. I happened to see

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this movie not in the theaters but on Uh it

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had to be on cable, I'm guessing, but I think

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the first time that I remember seeing this was right

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in the middle of the snake Man scene. Yeah, and

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I saw that it was Dennis Quaid and the snake Man.

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I was like, what in God's name is this? What

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about you?

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So I didn't see this in the theater. I did

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see Temple the doomant theater, but I didn't see Dreamscape.

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This one got past me. I think I cut this

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on HBO like late eighties, I believe, but vivid memories

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of that snake Man, which scared the living crap out

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of me and still does. When I was watching this

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move again for podcast, I was like, oh, league crap. Yeah, Yeah,

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a lot of memory came back at nightmares, I should say,

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with that damn thing.

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Yeah. Well, and I think there's a lot we'll get

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into with the special effects. But yeah, it's a it's

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an interesting image that absolutely, like, like you said, when

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he first kind of transforms and you see him on

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the screen. It gives me chills that don't necessarily scare

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me as much as it kind of brings back this

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late memory of being terrified at the time exactly. And

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we've got a dreamcast for this one. So let's talk

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about the cast first, starting with the role of Alex

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Gardner Deft Dave. What are your thoughts on Dennis Quaid

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as our suave psychic.

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Well, I feel like we're getting him early in his career.

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I don't know what else. I mean, I'm aware of

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Jall's three and I'm aware of I think it was

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Little Long Riders right with the head the Western with

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all the Brothers cast, But I feel like he was

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still kind of working his way to the A list

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with this movie. He looks just about like a teenager

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in this movie, I think. But it's good to see

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him here. I definitely. I know I was getting kind

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of a little bit of like Harrison Ford vibes in this.

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I don't know if if it was just because of

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Kate Capshaw or what, but yeah, I thought I thought

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he did a good job. I don't I don't know.

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It doesn't feel like the Dennis Quaid we would come

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to really know, but I enjoyed seeing this early performance

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from him. Yeah, I think, And I feel like was

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this like his like his first like really like top

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billing main role where he wasn't in an ensemble or

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anything like that. I feel like this was early in

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that kind of lead role for him.

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Pretty sure. It is definitely the first time he's in

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a drewsters and poster at front center right. And I

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think there's a lot of parallels we're gonna see with

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Harrison Ford, specifically with that kind of poster, because I mean,

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it's hard in the year that Temple of Doom comes out,

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not to compare the two, because his torch is all

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over the place in Jones and he still has that

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kind of debonair, kind of scoundrel aspect to him that

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I think gives us some callbacks to early Star Wars. Yeah, yeah, David,

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what are your thoughts?

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You definitely can see the influences and all of that.

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Now.

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It's always nice to revisit actors who you know, go

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back to when they first started their career or around

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when they first started the career to see where they became,

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came from and what you know, they grew to because

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we know all of the films he has been up

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to this date, you know, but I always like to

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go back to see that. I think he did a

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fantastic talb. But I completely agree with you. He does

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feel like a Han solo. Indiana Jones character are written

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for this film, and it's it's kind of ironic that

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it kind of runs pretty close to Temple of Doom,

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like it was almost meant to be in my opinion,

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like they did that on purpose.

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Yeah, well, he's definitely you know, he's kind of manipulating

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the horse track, right, he's getting away with things. He's

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running away from people that he owes money to, and

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he's trying to get out of trouble with He's trying

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to kind of make his moves on Kate Capshaw. So

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there's definitely a lot of parallels there. Speaking of Kate Capshaw,

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it's a busy nineteen eighty four for her. It is

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she's doctor Jane Devrez in the same year when she's

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in the Temple of Doom facing the threat of the

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Black Sleep of Kalli. So she's got a lot of

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dream based things going on this year. She did two

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years before we see her in Space Camp in nineteen

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eighty six, about seven years before she married Steven Spielberg.

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So my question to both of you is which Kate

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from eighty four is best? Willie Scott or Doctor Jane.

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Doctor Jane. I'm not even gonna beat around the bush

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on that one. I'm sorry. A screaming Willie just grinds

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my gears. Yeah. I love her character in Temple of Doom,

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but just her scream just got to me. And I'm sorry.

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I'm a big Marion fan, so when they replaced her

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for that film, I did not like Willie at all.

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Sorry, it's it's the doctor who's syndrome. Yeah, when they

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replace a companion, it's like, Nope, not any story. I

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can't do it. Definit Dave, what about you?

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I feel exactly the same way for the same reasons.

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I can defend Temple of Doom and I'm ready to

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have that conversation with people. But what I will not

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defend is her portrayal of Willie Scott. I think her

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screaming and whining was easily the worst thing of that movie.

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Yep.

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And when I realized she was in this, I was

230
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.120
a little anxious, like what are we in for? But

231
00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:34.360
I think she's actually she's actually great in this movie. Yeah,

232
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.480
I think she I got to see the real Kate

233
00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:42.360
capsule of the actress in this and so it's an

234
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.120
easy call for me. I'm definitely taking Doctor Jane. My

235
00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:47.639
understanding is that this is not really a studio film.

236
00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:52.799
This was produced independently, financed independently, and then shopped around

237
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.879
and the studio picked it up, like, acquired it because

238
00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:02.320
Kate Capshaw was in it, because anticipated she would be

239
00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.360
hot off of Temple of Doom and they wanted to

240
00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:07.519
kind of catch that a little bit. So I think

241
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.879
she's probably a big part of why this did get

242
00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:12.879
picked up and got good distribution.

243
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.759
If this is the Willy we would have gotten Temple

244
00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.559
of Doom, it would have been so much better. Yeah.

245
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:23.000
Maybe maybe she's kind of a Dona Noble Dave, like

246
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.399
she's gonna eventually get that redemption, but we never really

247
00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.399
see it. No, Yeah, and there they're not. You know,

248
00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:32.200
def Dave, you had a great point there, Like you've

249
00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:35.080
got two big names on there already. I mean, Dennis

250
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.679
Quaid is aspiring, but he's definitely got the charisma. You

251
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.039
know that he's going to be a star. Kate Catshaw

252
00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:45.440
is on her way. Max von Seadal as doctor Novotni

253
00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:54.000
is no no exception, right, he's ever from Flash Garden, right,

254
00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.879
we know him today three ied Raven from Game of Thrones,

255
00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:02.840
among many many other things. I think he does a

256
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.080
great job as doctor Navanne.

257
00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.720
You feel for that character, you really. At first, you don't.

258
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.000
You feel like he's out to get Alex Gardner and

259
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.960
use him to his advantage, and he kind of does.

260
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.519
But when you find out what's really going on behind

261
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:23.879
the scenes with Blair, then in what happens to actor Novotny,

262
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.080
you really feel for his character because he was taken

263
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.399
advantage of. He was really just you know, being that doctor,

264
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.279
that professor, you know, and you know, wanting to test

265
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.519
the boundaries and see how far he could go, and

266
00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:38.200
he needed people around him who could do that. But

267
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:39.759
he was just being taken advantage.

268
00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:43.320
Yeah, for sure. It's interesting that he and doctor Jane

269
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:47.840
have it seems like they they know what they want

270
00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:50.200
to do or need to do with this program, right,

271
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:53.159
They're genuinely just trying to research the science of it

272
00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:57.519
and help people along the way. Ye. Unfortunately he's got

273
00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:01.960
this you know, favorite a star pupil on the flip

274
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.879
side of the Dennis Quaid coin. We've got Tommy Ray

275
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.240
played by David Patrick Kelly.

276
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.759
Let me tell you something about this character. Okay, Yeah,

277
00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:14.799
I had forgotten about this character. I had forgotten about

278
00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:18.080
this realtor, David Patrick Kelly. And when I went to

279
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.960
revisit this film for this for this episode, when he

280
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.519
popped up on screen, I'm like, oh my god, that's

281
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:24.679
where this guy from.

282
00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.120
Yeah, completely forgot about it.

283
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.519
I remember how much I hated this guy. Oh wait,

284
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:32.360
you know, and he does his job, so I'm not

285
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.759
blaming the actor. Great job for, you know, playing this

286
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.039
guy that I cannot stand, but I can believe forgot

287
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:39.919
that he was in this movie until he popped up.

288
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.440
Again, which is fascinating because I mean we see his

289
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.799
you know, we've seen his face in forty eight hours. Obviously, Dave,

290
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.279
you and I talked with a Patri Ramos on a

291
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.919
film at forty five when we saw him in The

292
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.720
Warriors yep, and obviously in The Crow he's he's pretty

293
00:15:54.799 --> 00:16:01.000
unfreettable there and Commando and Commando thank you so deaft Dave.

294
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.639
What are your thoughts on Tommy Ray as our main villain?

295
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.799
I I will echo what Dave said. I thought that

296
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.120
Kelly did a fantastic job of bringing the character to life.

297
00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.840
I mean, it's easy to hate him. He's arrogant. He

298
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.360
at first, you just think he's just like just arrogant,

299
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.639
little prick, and he just thinks he's mister Big Bad

300
00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:23.360
because he's in the psychic program. And then you find

301
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.960
out what he's really doing and you realize, oh, okay,

302
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.360
he's just this sicko that the government has been able

303
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.120
to leverage. And it's just interesting to me. I mean,

304
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.759
I think his height actually plays a part in this.

305
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.399
You know, it's like he has short man syndrome. Because

306
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.600
he gets into the he gets into the dream world,

307
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.240
he's just like kicking everybody's butt. He's like taking out everybody.

308
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.600
He's you know, he's he's probably been picked on a

309
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.320
lot in the real world his whole life. And of

310
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.039
course he has he killed his dad or something like

311
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.240
that in the real world. That's his character history. And

312
00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:55.440
then like he's able to just cut loose and let

313
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.399
out all this anger and stuff in the dream world.

314
00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:01.240
And and and I'll love it, like I love the

315
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.079
fact that he's got into the dragon posters all over

316
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.480
his wall and then he goes into the Dreamscape and

317
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.920
he's like, you know, mister Ninja, and you know, it's

318
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.640
the nunchuck scene. It's weird because he looks a little

319
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.960
funny doing it the same at the same time he's

320
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.799
doing it like he's really doing like that's not easy.

321
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.119
So hats off to the actor for that too. So

322
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.079
I thought I did a really good job of training

323
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.359
a god that's not likable and would be somebody has

324
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.839
that profile that the government could use for these for

325
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:34.880
these you know whattworks.

326
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.640
Yeah, he's he's definitely the Draco Malfoy of of Dreamscape.

327
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.000
Oh yeah, for sure. And he's one of those one

328
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.960
of the character first makes his appearance. You really, I'm

329
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.119
not gonna like you, and yeah, you just do it well.

330
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.039
And he there was another I know we've talked about

331
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.000
Elma Street inception. We'll get that in a minute. There's

332
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.319
another movie that crossed my mind. When we first meet

333
00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.960
Tommy Ray. He reminds me of Kent from Real Genius.

334
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.279
M hmm, because he's in that position where he's like, Oh,

335
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:06.400
I'm the star pupil, I'm the guy who's you know,

336
00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.000
running this university or whatever. It's supposed to be and

337
00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.279
then gets super jealous with the new kid in town,

338
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.480
very much like you know, he's a nervous, pedantic lab

339
00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.960
rat until he's in the dream world and yeah, then

340
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:25.519
he's you know, with these spike nun checks that you

341
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.799
have to be careful with if I mean, with the

342
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.880
spikes on the ends are a bit much to say

343
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.279
the least, but like you know, it's gotta be tough

344
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:40.039
to do that that scene there. Yeah, and he definitely

345
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.759
had some some of Freddie vibes, especially in the Enz

346
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.720
flicks those I'm like, that's on the nose, but okay,

347
00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:50.359
all right, it's coming out at the same time, so

348
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:50.839
let it go.

349
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.640
Well, one thing you really shouldn't do is let him

350
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.039
know what you're afraid of or what freaks you out,

351
00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.160
because he's always going to use that to his advantage.

352
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.559
I mean, Alex didn't know at the time, you know,

353
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.240
when you let him know about the snake Man, those

354
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.880
kinds of things. But yeah, that's ooh that guy who.

355
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.240
Yeah, well, it seems to be a little bit of

356
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.480
a reveal like Dennis Quad's character seems to have this

357
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.319
Professor X trifecta of powers, like we first see footage

358
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.680
of him moving a ball bearing back and forth, So

359
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.839
a little bit of telkenesis. Obviously, some mild telepathy because

360
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.200
he's able to read cape capture his mind when he's

361
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:30.279
you know, going through the Ghostbusters card scene, and clairvoyance

362
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:34.119
because he's able to see the future with the horse races. Right. Yeah,

363
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.640
it doesn't seem like Tommy has that range of powers,

364
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.240
Like he only knows about the Snake Man because he

365
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.759
happened to see the sketch from Alex.

366
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.279
I feel like that's part of his character. That's kind

367
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.200
of tragic in my opinion. I feel like he is

368
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.200
stuck there in that university, even though he wants to

369
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.000
be there because he's this strong individual there. I feel like,

370
00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.039
you know, he didn't go out there to get his

371
00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:01.400
potential that he could possibly be like Alex did. Alex

372
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:02.920
escaped it, you know.

373
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:05.119
Yeah, that's true. That's true.

374
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.319
Tommy didn't. He's still there, and I think that's why

375
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.519
Alex has that more capability than Tommy did.

376
00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:13.799
Well, and I know we've got one more villain to

377
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:20.240
round things out, Christopher Plumber. I love to see Christopher

378
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:24.440
Plumber whenever he appears on stage. We recently talked about

379
00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:27.880
him when Jeff and Amber talked about Mike Nichols Wolf

380
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.400
being another sinister character. I always think of him as

381
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:37.279
the Pagan Preacher from Dragnet Tom Hanks and dan Ackroyd. Yes,

382
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:42.480
like Orange Katty, Here we Go. Yeah, there's things that

383
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.400
are wrong with that movie, but I love the movie anyway,

384
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.079
and David, you and I love him for Star Trek

385
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.720
six the Undiscovered Country.

386
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:50.359
Absolutely, we do.

387
00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:51.400
Without a doubt.

388
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.039
Everybody comes back to Star Trek.

389
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:54.720
It always does, you know.

390
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.759
Honestly, this role reminds me a lot of general change

391
00:20:57.839 --> 00:20:59.039
from Undiscovered Country.

392
00:20:59.240 --> 00:20:59.440
Yeah.

393
00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:04.119
Yeah, both both characters are interested in stopping the peace

394
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.839
process and keeping war going. So I definitely had shade

395
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:10.680
a Trek there for me.

396
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.559
Yeah, is I think I know the answer to this

397
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:16.839
is Christopher Plumber, one of our favorite villains.

398
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.440
He's the perfect kind of sleazy. You know. It's like, yes,

399
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.160
he seems like he would be a good guy, but

400
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.000
you just don't trust him.

401
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.599
Yeah. Yeah, He's somebody who will put his hand around

402
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.480
your shoulder with a knife in.

403
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.319
It just exactly.

404
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.559
The Well, any movie with Christopher Plumber and Maximum Saido

405
00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:43.039
in it together, it is automatically you know gonna have

406
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:44.599
to be taken seriously.

407
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:45.839
For sure, without doubt.

408
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.720
All Right, well, let's take a quick break when we

409
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.200
come back. There's one more character I want to talk about,

410
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:56.920
a theory related to Wes Craven. All right, welcome back.

411
00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:01.680
We're chatting about Joseph Rubin's Dreamscape. What is what other

412
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:04.160
members of the cast that caught ora in this one?

413
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.240
Uh? Well, for me, the little kid I forget his name,

414
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.880
was a buddy or something like that that was suffering

415
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.160
from the nightmares and they were trying to help him.

416
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:17.000
That actor's name is Corey Others and that last name

417
00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.880
the Others really struck me, and so I looked him up.

418
00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.160
He's actually the real life brother of Tina the Others

419
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.519
who played uh Jennifer Keaton on Family Ties.

420
00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:30.359
Yeah, oh wow, I did not know that.

421
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:34.720
So that's that's that's his that's her brother. He only

422
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.119
acted in like the first half of the eighties. He

423
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.359
did mostly episodic television, but here he is in Dreamscape.

424
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.359
He seemed a little familiar, and I wonder if that

425
00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:45.079
was it. I wonder if I was kind of picking

426
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.359
on some TENA others similarities there.

427
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.680
Yeah, And once I knew that I could see the similarity.

428
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.720
So yeah, and I love seeing George went in a bar,

429
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.000
you know, his natural.

430
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.400
To escape. I thought he had a great character, I

431
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:02.400
thought at first when he was kind of lurking around.

432
00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.839
So he plays Charlie Prince, an author that I think

433
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.400
is supposed to be kind of a Stavid King paralle Yes,

434
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:13.400
and it seems like he's another government spy, right, somebody

435
00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.559
who's kind of lurking around. Turns out he's a horror author.

436
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.640
And I've seen this movie several times and I just

437
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.039
recently caught an interesting detail that actually ties him back

438
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:28.599
to Wes Craven in another way. So when he introduces

439
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:31.880
himself to Alex in the bar, he shows him his

440
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:36.039
best selling book Stab. The name and the logo are

441
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:39.559
very familiar because it's the meta version of Wes Craven's

442
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:41.920
Scream that we see in the opening of Scream two

443
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:46.640
when they make a movie of Scream in the Scream world.

444
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.640
So if he's a Wes Craven like character in that universe,

445
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.000
what if he was working on his own nightmare on

446
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.880
Elm Street before he died. What if this is a

447
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.359
Wes Craven character that was working on that because he's

448
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.200
doing research.

449
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:04.960
My brain thinking about that, does that theory hold water?

450
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:06.039
Does it does?

451
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:06.480
Yeah?

452
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.119
I could see that it.

453
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.720
Yes, it does help with water. I have another theory though,

454
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.920
that would break that, and that's just that I feel

455
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.839
like Nightmare and Almstreet three, I think it's three Dream Warriors. Yes,

456
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.519
treads a lot of similar ground to Dreamscape. Where were

457
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.160
they entering the genreams and going after the killer? And

458
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.559
I you know, you can you can make the case

459
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:32.799
that that after Dreamscape, somehow this program continued even though

460
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.920
it's supposed to be shut down. And then we're actually

461
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.400
seeing that work continued in Dream Warriors. So that part

462
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:38.920
works for me.

463
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:39.440
Interesting.

464
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.400
I really like that. I thought that that's fantastic.

465
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.480
That is interesting. A lot of offshoots there. Yeah, maybe

466
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.079
they could have found the kids who were able to

467
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.440
achieve dream control be part of this program. Wow, wow,

468
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.160
that would be that would be deep funny. You mentioned

469
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:00.599
that because the writers on this movie, we've got Joseph

470
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:06.319
Rubin obviously, we've also got David Lowry and Chuck Russell.

471
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.720
And Chuck was the writer and director of what you

472
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.000
just mentioned, my favorite ELM Street movie, Nightmare three Dream Warriors.

473
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.559
There you go, there's the connection there, you go.

474
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:24.079
So apparently he caught the attention of the crew behind Nightmare,

475
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.240
which is a good thing because apparently when it came out,

476
00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:30.720
the franchise is faltering a little bit. They were a

477
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.759
little worried about what they would do with it. And

478
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.440
Dream Warriors was amazing and hopefully we need a chance

479
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:38.559
to talk about that in the future.

480
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.640
You know, this movie has so many vibes going for

481
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.319
it when you really look deep into it. When Alex

482
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.640
gets picked up by the people to take him to

483
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.599
Thornhill College, that whole sequence when he was in the

484
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.200
station wagon that they were taking him there and the

485
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:57.440
music going on had some serious Halloween vibes going on.

486
00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:59.759
Oh yeah, it really did.

487
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:00.880
Yeah.

488
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.400
You mean when he's being chased by the bookies.

489
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:06.079
Yeah, and then when the station wagon, you know, they

490
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:07.880
come get him and they see them coming towards then

491
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.759
he jumps into the station wagon with them, So hey,

492
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:12.279
I'll go with you. That the whole sequence just felt

493
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:14.319
like Halloween at times with that music score.

494
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.079
Yeah, but he's almost kind of kidnapped on the family

495
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:18.720
truckster from vacation.

496
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.039
Yeah.

497
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:26.359
Speaking of screenwriters, David Laurie had he said Laurie. David Laurie,

498
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.200
he was actually not happy at all with how Dreamskate

499
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.960
turned out and wanted to disown it. I mean, his

500
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.480
name didn't get removed. He's still on there, but he

501
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.880
was very like unhappy with the final product. Apparently, but ironically,

502
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.759
William Shatner was looking for a rider for Final Frontier

503
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:49.720
and was impressed enough with David Laurdy's work on Dream

504
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.440
Skate that he hired him to help with Star Trek five.

505
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.319
So you know, perhaps Shatner and Laurie had different standards

506
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.599
of what made a good story.

507
00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:59.119
Clearly they did.

508
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:03.359
Yeah. Yeah, wait, you talk about disowning one of those movies, right,

509
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:05.359
let's talk about.

510
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:10.279
That said this time soon.

511
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.039
No. I saw that, and I think that kind of

512
00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:18.359
surprises me because yes, there are some things that I

513
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.920
probably change about it, but I don't know if it's

514
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:25.319
worth disowning. I mean, this is when we've seen David,

515
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:27.759
You and I have seen this a few times at least. Yeah, absolutely,

516
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.079
and it doesn't disappoint. There might be some things that

517
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:34.839
I would shift, but it's not necessarily something out right

518
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:35.759
cut out.

519
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:36.440
No.

520
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.759
I mean I thought the movie had good pacing. I

521
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.920
mean it's got a decent story to it. It pulls

522
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.119
you into it pretty quickly. The characters I thought were

523
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.319
well written and enough depth there that I wanted to

524
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.200
know more about them and where it was going and

525
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:53.720
the whole sequences of them going into the dreams and

526
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.359
stuff like that. I wanted to know more, and I

527
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:58.400
thought it did a really good job. So I don't

528
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.680
know why he would have, you know, anything to do

529
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.279
with this. I loved it.

530
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:07.319
I even think that the special effects hold up just fine.

531
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.720
I don't think the fact that they all take place

532
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.720
in a dream world and are not supposed to be

533
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.039
real anywhere correct, Yeah, kind of insulates it from like

534
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.000
being dated by special texts technology. Yeah and so yeah,

535
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:24.440
so yeah, maybe the backgrounds in the video or obviously processed,

536
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:26.960
or it's an obvious green screen, or it's an obvious

537
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.839
stop motion, but whatever, it's the dream. Who's to say

538
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:34.000
that that's wrong, you know? So yeah, I don't. I

539
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.799
wouldn't just own this movie, not at all.

540
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:36.079
No.

541
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.640
I mean the whole re harry House and stop motion

542
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.599
animation that we get in this. I love that. Anytime

543
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:43.720
I see that in the movie, I just I get giddy.

544
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:47.119
I really do. You're absolutely correct about that. The fact

545
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.799
that you know, these are in a dream. These are

546
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.119
in a nightmare, so it can look any way it

547
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.240
wants to look. It doesn't matter, you know, because it's

548
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.559
in a dream. So you're right, they can get away

549
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.240
with that, and it doesn't date it at all in

550
00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:58.720
my opinion.

551
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:02.880
No, I would say for me, some of the things

552
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:08.200
that don't necessarily work as well are to at least

553
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.759
two of the scenes related to sex. So the one

554
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:17.519
is the jealous husband's dream, which you know, it takes

555
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:21.319
a beat to look for a funny moment. I know

556
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:23.799
it's not the same guy, but mister Webber reminds me

557
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:25.359
of the guy that says, oh, buy that for a

558
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.799
dollar on Robocopa.

559
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.240
But with his kids there, and it just that was real.

560
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.880
Yeah, And like the friends under the bed and all

561
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.240
kind of stuff, it just seemed like it was taking

562
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.559
a little bit too long for that. It almost looked

563
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:39.039
like a bet Benny Hill sketch.

564
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.839
Yeah, and I know where you're going with the other one,

565
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.559
the other scene I'm going to talk about on the train.

566
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:50.400
Yeah, Yeah, this hits in a different way when you

567
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:53.799
have modern sensibilities and you look at it as he's

568
00:29:53.920 --> 00:30:00.440
essentially projecting himself against her will, yeah, to trying to

569
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:02.839
have sex with her in the dream, and he tries

570
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.799
to play it off, and it's just like, nah, that's

571
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:08.960
crossing a line. And I know there there was a

572
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:11.720
time or at least there are versions of this where

573
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:14.759
they they either cut that out or just cut out

574
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:17.400
the nudity of that. But what are your thoughts on that?

575
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:18.759
Does sex work in this movie?

576
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.400
So their relationship they get to towards the end of

577
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.920
this one is fine. I kind of understand to a

578
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:27.519
certain point. I know what they were trying to do

579
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:29.200
because they wanted to tie it up in the end

580
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.559
with the whole crane thing again and the guy taking

581
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.039
the tickets and stuff like that. I do kind of

582
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.440
get that. But it's funny, Scott, we had this similar

583
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.119
conversation about on Star Trek Nemesis and Phaser set that's

584
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:44.440
done with Deanner Troy and what happened with her in

585
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.960
that movie. So this this really seems like familiar ground

586
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:52.599
when we're discussing this of you know, taking advantage of

587
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:55.200
somebody in a dream like this, because you know, it

588
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:59.119
still would be considered rape in my opinion, you know. Yeah,

589
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.279
So I struggle with this scene looking at it through

590
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:06.200
today's you know, society and stuff like that. Even when

591
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.720
I was watching this movie again, I felt really like,

592
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.039
are we really going to go there? You know, I

593
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.480
didn't remember that scene very well because I hadn't seen

594
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:15.400
it in a long time. But when we got there

595
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:20.039
and I'm like, this doesn't feel right at all. So yeah,

596
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:21.440
I didn't like that scene at all.

597
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:28.000
Well, I'm gonna dare take an opposing view there, and

598
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.160
I want to say up front, you know, just the

599
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.000
real world issue of rape is something I take very seriously.

600
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.599
I've had it strike close to home and I would

601
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.319
not treat it lightly in any way. But in the

602
00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:40.200
context of this movie and what we see on screen,

603
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.039
it's not like the dream version of herself is resisting

604
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.319
in the dream. She's consenting, okay, And after they get

605
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.720
out of the dream, she says, well, it doesn't take

606
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:54.880
a genius to know something we both wanted. So that's

607
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:58.319
enough for me to not have a problem with it. Really,

608
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:01.599
So it does a weird vibe once you're back in

609
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.119
the real world, like, you know, what what you know?

610
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:06.599
I know you experienced that too, and are you still

611
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.559
going to say no? Now you know, but I don't.

612
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.079
I don't think the raziny line that was actually cross oa.

613
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:15.680
That's fair well, aside from the the things that maybe

614
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:18.240
don't work as well. What were some of the other

615
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.160
favorite scenes from this movie? So?

616
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.240
I obviously when they were in Buddy's dream is my

617
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:28.400
favorite because a lot of that felt like a Twilight

618
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:29.319
Zone episode.

619
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.960
Yeah, it really the first one where he first meets

620
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:32.559
the snake Man.

621
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:35.200
Yeah, so like going down, like you know, there's really

622
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.640
awkward steps and you know, all the kind of things

623
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.559
that were going on in that dream, you know, getting

624
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.880
the silhouette of you know, the father there and then

625
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.160
they're going away and you see the snake Man basically

626
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.240
killing his dad, but you don't see it, you hear it,

627
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:49.880
you know, the shadows and stuff like that. That whole

628
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.640
dream sequence I felt straight out of Twilight Zone, the

629
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:56.519
movie that Steven Spielberg and stuff had worked on. That's

630
00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.200
what it felt like to me. And that's like my

631
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.599
favorite sequence of the whole movie. And plus snake Man's

632
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.759
there because it's still scarcely well.

633
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.319
What I what jumped out at me about that scene

634
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.119
in that in that particular dream scape that they were

635
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:15.160
in was the sets, you know, were exaggerated, like the

636
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.720
windows in the wall. They weren't square, they were they

637
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.240
were out of whack, And to me, that immediately brought

638
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:25.599
to mind like the German Expressionism silent film era from

639
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:30.079
the early twentieth century, German expressionism was a was that

640
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.160
was something they did, was they warped the sets as

641
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:37.559
a way to reflect the state of mind of the protagonists,

642
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:40.319
because it was usually some kind of horror story, and

643
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:43.319
so they would they would play with reality by messing

644
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:46.279
with the dimensions and the angles. And I saw them

645
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:48.680
doing that in that scene. So that was something that

646
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:52.039
I thought was was pretty cool, and I was gonna

647
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.359
name that as my as my top choice there. But

648
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.799
since you took it, I will. I will whatever scene

649
00:33:58.799 --> 00:33:59.759
it was, And to be honest, I don't have a

650
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.119
clear memory of it. It had to have involved Christopher Plumber.

651
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:06.119
But when we first get the plot that oh, okay,

652
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.119
now they're gonna use all of this which seemed to

653
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.960
be for the good of humanity, We're going to try

654
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:16.519
to kill the president. And once that was introduced, then

655
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.760
the story kicked into a different gear because now we

656
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.039
had stakes, and then we had a villain and so

657
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:26.320
it took that to bring the story together and to

658
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:29.119
and to make it compelling. So and I feel like

659
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:30.400
that comes a little late in the movie. You know,

660
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:33.719
they spend enough time introducing the characters, introducing the phenomenon,

661
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.880
the research. They take the time to help the little

662
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.880
kid first, and it's like, Okay, this is great, but

663
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:43.000
what's at stake? And then we get the assassination plot

664
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.119
and then that's where that's where it kicks up. So

665
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:46.159
I'll name that one.

666
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.559
Because even the move the movie even opens up with

667
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:51.599
the president's nightmare, but you really don't put that together yet,

668
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.800
you know, you're just say, oh, this is this. You know,

669
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.679
he's having a bad dream and he is the president

670
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:57.679
because they call him that, but you kind of let

671
00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.400
that go at first, and it really doesn't come back

672
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:01.880
until a little bit later and later in the film.

673
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:02.960
So yeah, you're absolutely right.

674
00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:05.360
Yeah, and I think Eddie Albert does a great job

675
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.320
as the president in this one. Obviously they're going for

676
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:13.400
Ronald Reagan kind of vibes, but it's very interesting to

677
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.679
see a president that is plagued by nightmares of a

678
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:24.559
nuclear war of nuclear disaster. I feel bad for his

679
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:29.400
character because obviously he's trying to do all that he

680
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:33.599
can to try to stop it, but he's being manipulated

681
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.079
by the Joe far kind of character with Christopher Plummer's

682
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:41.360
Bob Blair, and just knowing that he doesn't necessarily have

683
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.159
a resolution to his nightmares. It's not like when they

684
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.159
end the movie that he's cured of the nightmares. He

685
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:50.360
has to live this responsibility for the rest of his life.

686
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.119
I think that's an interesting angle to talk to take

687
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.679
with this, that it wasn't just like a high ranking

688
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.760
government official. It's it's kind of looking at the president's

689
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:03.920
view At that point, I got to take a moment

690
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:09.800
to mention the practical effects crew on this, specifically for

691
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:13.000
the Snake Man. So on the human scale side, you've

692
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:16.800
got Craig Reardon, who was behind the special makeup effects

693
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.039
for Poltergeist and apparently was the makeup creator for Sloth

694
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:25.880
and the Goonies. He's got his pedigree nice joined by

695
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:31.840
stop motion puppetry by James Operaly and hopefully I'm pronouncing

696
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:36.480
that right, who worked on The Thing and Creep Show

697
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.199
and another movie that we've mentioned a few times, Nightmare

698
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:43.000
on Elm Street three. Specifically, he did the stop motion

699
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.280
when Freddy becomes the marionette. It's a gruesome scene. It's

700
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.760
a very coolest scene, and another place where I think

701
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.320
stop motion puppetree still has a place like whenever we

702
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:59.400
see the Ray Harryhausen. You can see stop motion when

703
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.159
it's there, but I don't feel like it ever loses

704
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:06.480
its luster. So I think that did an amazing job

705
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:06.880
on this one.

706
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:08.880
Absolutely did, And.

707
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.079
It still looked a little bit like David Patrick Kelly

708
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:16.280
you know structure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

709
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:22.440
We almost had a different Tommy Ray, which surprised me

710
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.920
a little bit, mentioning how much his you know, his

711
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.639
face is captured in the Snakeman sequence, how sinister a

712
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.880
villain he is. He was almost Kevin Costner. Oh no,

713
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.079
I can't imagine that here. Number one. I can't imagine

714
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:44.079
Kevin Costner versus Dennis Quaid. It seems a little odd. Yeah,

715
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.719
but I think we'd get a completely different feel from

716
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.039
Tommy Ray with Kevin Cotton.

717
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:50.079
We absolutely would. I don't think it would work, in

718
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:52.239
my opinion, not at all.

719
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:54.719
They got the casting right there, I have to agree.

720
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:55.280
Yep.

721
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.440
Well, and I know that he had said he doesn't

722
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.280
want to be a supporting actor, so that's why he

723
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.920
had kind of bowed out of it. I think we're

724
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.519
better for it. I mean, we've already talked about David

725
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.000
Patrick Kelly and his other roles. I think each one

726
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:12.599
of those is an example of why he's born to

727
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:16.760
play this kind of villain. Yeah, especially one that's you know,

728
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.199
willing to not only take the nightmares of a little

729
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:24.199
kid and use him to terrorize the president. But ah,

730
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:25.840
he's just so so ster a villain.

731
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:29.079
Yeah. We also, you know, we definitely want to mention

732
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:33.159
Maurice's music. I believe his last name is is it Yar, Yes,

733
00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:36.679
Maurice Jar. I mean he did the music for tons

734
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.760
of stuff, but I mean like Witness Ghost, Lawrence of Arabia,

735
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:43.599
Doctor Jivago, Solar Babies that I know, we did it

736
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:47.559
in the nineteen eighty six series, even Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

737
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:52.119
I believe originally they wanted the music to be orchestra,

738
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:55.719
but apparently Maurice felt like he really wanted us to

739
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:59.760
be more electronic, which is what we got in this film.

740
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.400
He felt like the material set the tone a little

741
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:04.320
bit better, and I agree with him. You know, he

742
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.440
was absolutely correct. I don't think an orchestra would have

743
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:10.639
helped this movie. In my opinion, the route he went

744
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:13.920
with the electronic music I think was spot on, and

745
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.320
like I even said that scene that I felt really

746
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:18.760
had that Halloween vibe going on to it because it

747
00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:21.199
was very simple music at that time, which John Carpenter's

748
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.119
music is for Halloween. It really felt it had that

749
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.199
vibe going on to it, and I absolutely loved it.

750
00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:28.559
So I think he made a very good choice with

751
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:29.119
this music.

752
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.920
I agree. And you know it, it's almost not a

753
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.960
horror movie. The horror elements sneak up on you, right.

754
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.639
It spends most of its time being a sci fi movie,

755
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:40.519
and I think, you know sci fi and then the

756
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:44.719
horror comes when when your reality changes and when when

757
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:48.000
your senses are warped, And I think that does lend

758
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.800
itself more to that electronic approach that he took with

759
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.079
this score. So you know, I agree. I think he

760
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:56.159
made the right choice and you know, in relation to

761
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:58.119
what the story was and what the material was, So

762
00:39:58.880 --> 00:39:59.559
it thumbs up.

763
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:03.480
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with both of you. I'm

764
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:06.679
a fan of synth music. I've talked about transforms the

765
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.360
movie soundtrack more than some times a little bit, just

766
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.440
a little bit maybe time. But you know, even though

767
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.840
it might seem of the era, I don't think that's

768
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:18.760
necessarily a bad thing. And I think the sound engineering

769
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:23.719
this one is fantastic, especially in the original scene where

770
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:27.519
he's working with the construction worker and everything has that

771
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.800
kind of echoe effect. It helps you to know when

772
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:34.760
you're in the dream, even though that's fairly obvious. It's

773
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:36.840
not like you need to guess, but it makes it

774
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:38.639
a little bit more dream like, in my opinion. So

775
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.880
I think that's I think it's used really well. All right,

776
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.079
let's take one more break, and when we come back,

777
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:50.599
we'll talk about another pivotal moment in dream scheme. All Right,

778
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:54.239
we're back. We already talked about what I feel like

779
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.840
is a pivotal moment in this with the original snake

780
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.639
Man scene. But I think if we have to choose

781
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.400
which which is really a pivotal moment, I would say

782
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.320
it's the climax of this movie when we get into

783
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.480
the President's Nightmare where Timmy Gray is trying to assassinate

784
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:15.159
him theft Dave, what are some of your favorite moments

785
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:15.960
from that nightmare?

786
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:19.679
Uh, the mutant freaks on the train. I don't know

787
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.400
what the heck that was. Yes, it was like, are

788
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.199
we still just PG thirteen here? Because holy crap? Yeah, yeah,

789
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.079
that definitely, you know, jumps out of me. I thought

790
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:33.960
it was pretty intense battle. We get the heart getting

791
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.760
ripped out, we've got the Freddy Krueger fingers, which you know, Yeah,

792
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.480
I agree, it's, you know, pretty intense, and like suddenly,

793
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:43.880
like I said, the horror element snit sneak up on

794
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.360
you late in the movie and it's like you're watching

795
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:48.039
one movie the vast majority of the time, and then

796
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:51.000
suddenly this has happening against like you're in a hellscape

797
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.280
and it's just it's it's hard, you know, it comes hard.

798
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:58.039
Yep. Well, you had mentioned before this is the only

799
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.320
the second movie to get a PG thirteen after Red Dawn,

800
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:08.639
And yeah, I totally agree your first call about the

801
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:14.239
the people on the train. It uses light in just

802
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.920
the right way I think, to make it not just

803
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:23.639
the horrifying look of the victims on that train, but

804
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:26.239
the kind of nightmare quality. It's almost like zombies that

805
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.760
are that are coming after you. As a PG thirteen movie,

806
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.880
it almost seems like a sampler for somebody who hasn't

807
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:36.360
seen a nightmare and on the Street movie something they

808
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:38.800
kind of worked their way up to with this one.

809
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:41.119
I think I think what helped Meat up to that

810
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.480
is I think it was his second nightmare that we

811
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:45.920
were pulled into where he was walking around and he

812
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.480
goes to that door and opens it up and like

813
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:49.960
all those type of people were come out of that

814
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.679
door at him. You know, yeah, you got that that

815
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:54.639
lead up to that a little bit that when you

816
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.679
get that in the train sequence, it kind of you know,

817
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.039
you expect it, but you don't expect it because you

818
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:00.599
get it even more on the train then you got

819
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:01.079
it before.

820
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.519
Yep. But it seemed like there was a little bit

821
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:06.440
of a call back to the Warriors, right yeah, because

822
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.920
he has that lutheror moment. Absolutely, yeah, he says it's him,

823
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:09.599
he did it.

824
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.960
It's like, oh, yeah, that's true. And by the way,

825
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:15.920
this could have easily been the first PG thirteen movie.

826
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.880
It was finished first, but I guess I'm guessing that

827
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.159
because of the fact that it wasn't a studio film

828
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:26.760
and it had to get shopped around, had to get

829
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:28.519
bought and all that kind of stuff. By the time

830
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.280
it finally came out red Don had already beat it

831
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.280
to the theaters. But yeah, nineteen eighty four. You know,

832
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.960
it's like nineteen eighty four both introduced the need for

833
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.719
BG thirteen and gave us the solution before the year

834
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.480
was over, because it was Temple of Doom and Grimlins

835
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.960
that drove that decision to create a new category, and

836
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:52.000
it was red Don and Dreamscape who carried that label

837
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:54.920
before the year was over. It all happened within nineteen

838
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:55.360
eighty four.

839
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.360
Yeah, well, and there was a massive rush of PG

840
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.599
thirteen movies after that, so clearly the audience was ready

841
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:03.920
for it and had an appetite for it, and it

842
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:07.639
didn't seem to slow down. One of my favorite moments

843
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.760
in that sequence is Alex's use of Tommy Ray's father.

844
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:16.840
It seems like something that uses a lot of his talents.

845
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:19.960
Like we talked before about the telepathy, so you know,

846
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.840
he saw the news clipping, so he knew what happened,

847
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.199
but he also seemed to be reaching into Tommy Ray's

848
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.760
mind to know what his father would sound like, how

849
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.719
he would talk to him, and whether or not that

850
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:35.119
would weigh on him, Like it's entirely possible that that

851
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:40.360
could have Backray backfired on Alex and not hit Tommy Ray.

852
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:41.920
He had to know that there was some kind of

853
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.800
emotional connection there. It makes me think of how the

854
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:50.599
Elm Street Kids fought back against Freddy, particularly a Nightmare three,

855
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:57.000
finding ways to kind of seize their own power in

856
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.679
that moment and use the power of dreams against them.

857
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.159
He said, not didn't work out as well for them,

858
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:09.119
But when Alex uses it here, it causes Tommy Ray's

859
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:13.559
snake man to kind of devolve into that halfway hybrid

860
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:18.119
kind of look. I guess, you know, credit to the

861
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:22.199
president for driving a spear through his back. That was

862
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:27.719
pretty hardcore for the president, But all right, I don't know.

863
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.440
I just thought that was a clever moment when he

864
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:32.480
finally felt like he could control the dream.

865
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.920
YEP, I agree.

866
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:40.000
I know we didn't talk much about the poster, but

867
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:41.400
I do want to kind of go back to that

868
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:45.199
before we wrap up and just talk about what we

869
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:47.960
get there. With him holding the torch, he's surrounded by

870
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:51.000
all these elements. It's kind of wrapping up what you've

871
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:54.840
already seen in the movie. It does seem to be

872
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.360
a little a little bit of an odd choice for

873
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:01.280
this movie. So I get some kind of wondering. Are

874
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.400
there parts that doesn't seem to fit or do you

875
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.480
think it's exactly what they needed to bring people in.

876
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.639
Well, they think they were, you know, what they were

877
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:08.960
going for when they made that poster.

878
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:11.559
Yeah, it's easy to see that.

879
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:13.239
It's very easy to see it, and that's why they

880
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.320
did it. But it really doesn't fit the film in

881
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.719
my opinion. I mean, I know, we're talking about dreams

882
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:21.519
and nightmares and stuff like that and going in them

883
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:25.920
and helping people, but I don't think it matches what

884
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:27.639
happens in this film. It should have been a completely

885
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:31.880
different type of poster. So they use that to their advantage.

886
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.639
I agree. I mean, I love Strusanne's art and it's

887
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:37.599
an awesome poster, and I love how they worked elements

888
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:39.800
from the film, you know, into the border of that

889
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.360
archway or whatever. But yeah, I mean, it doesn't it

890
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:48.320
does not successfully convey the actual tone of the film.

891
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:51.679
You know, this is not in Indiana Jones movie, So

892
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.519
don't try to trick us, you know so, And I

893
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:56.840
don't know if it's just merely the fact that you

894
00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:02.000
use Trusan that that gave us that sense, But yeah,

895
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.000
that sense of being deceived a little bit. It's a

896
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.360
little misleading. I love the heart, I love it. It's

897
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.719
a cool image, clearly, but I agree that it doesn't

898
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:11.079
it doesn't really fit the movie.

899
00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:13.480
And I just make I mentioned that in context of

900
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:19.559
that ending nightmare, because it seems like the most impactful

901
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:23.320
parts of this movie take place during nightmares, and it

902
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:26.639
feels like it leans a little bit more into adventure

903
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:29.239
than into darkness. And I think maybe it would have

904
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:32.000
gotten a little bit more traction if it had leveraged

905
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:34.320
some of those movements, like we were just discussing on

906
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.199
the subway being chased by the wolves, being you know,

907
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.239
fighting the stake man, and also the kind of stuff.

908
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:42.480
And I was disappointed to hear that this didn't do

909
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.800
as well. I've heard people say that it's because of

910
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:48.360
the moment of the release. It was released in the summer,

911
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.920
which wasn't a good time for it. But I do

912
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.320
wish it had caught more success, and I wish there

913
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:55.760
are more people that you know, would talk about it today.

914
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:57.719
So I'm glad we're getting together to talk about it.

915
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.400
Yeah, I feel like it exception took a lot of

916
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:05.400
these basic ideas and improved it and perfected it, and

917
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:07.440
I don't yes, you know what I mean, Like, I

918
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.400
don't know. I don't know if you could remake this

919
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.840
movie today without people thinking you're trying to rip off Inception,

920
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.639
you know. But it is disappointed that more people don't

921
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:18.440
know about it because I do think it's a hidden

922
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:18.920
gym from.

923
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:19.679
The year it is.

924
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:22.199
Yep, and it does feel like like you said, I mean,

925
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.239
it could be a prequel, It could be in a

926
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:31.039
shared universe at least as an early early stage in

927
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:34.239
development for that program, and it might share some DNA

928
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.719
with nine three in the same kind of way. So yeah,

929
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.679
I don't know. It makes me want to see Inception

930
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.920
all over again. I don't look forward to questioning whether

931
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:43.840
it not the top spinning what that rates.

932
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:47.519
Yeah, I do think that Dreamscape and Nightmare on Elm

933
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:48.960
Street three would make a good.

934
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.480
Double billing, Yes, for sure. Damn no, that's the next

935
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:53.000
one I need.

936
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:56.679
To see right well.

937
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:59.360
Obviously on a film by we always talk about the

938
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.079
directors and foremost so getting into Joseph Rubin a little bit.

939
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.599
I didn't see a lot of information about Joseph Rubin

940
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:11.239
out there, but I know that we know a lot

941
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.599
of his work. Specifically, I'm thinking about Sleeping with the

942
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:18.920
Enemy and The good Son. Have you both seen those?

943
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:21.800
Yeah, it's been a long time, but.

944
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:27.960
Yes, ye, very different kinds of movies, right, yeah, yeah, they.

945
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:34.599
Are also throw a step father in there, step un yep.

946
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:37.039
And I actually see a common element between all three

947
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.519
of those. You know, you say they're very different, and

948
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:42.840
they are. But but with those three movies together, you

949
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:47.159
get this idea of like subverting the family as a

950
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:51.039
safe place. You know, you know, you're playing against the fears,

951
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:55.280
whether you're talking about a stepfather, you know, a cousin

952
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.960
or nephew, however you want to put it, and and

953
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.800
your husband. So I don't know, I feel like that

954
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:05.559
was a Those three together, I think make up the

955
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.679
defining theme of his career in my in my mind,

956
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:10.400
I know he had other types of movies, but that's

957
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:12.000
how I think of him.

958
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:13.400
M Yeah, I would have to go back and look

959
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.639
for the stepfather. That's not one that I have seen.

960
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.079
I remember at the scene The good Son surprised me

961
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:22.639
a lot like that is definitely not a mcaulay culkin

962
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:26.360
that we were used to seeing. No, And I think

963
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:30.519
very well done as much as it was pretty controversial

964
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.400
at the time, I thought it was pretty entertaining. Yeah, obviously,

965
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:38.800
Sleeping with the Enemy is a hard movie to forget.

966
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:43.840
I really I feel for Julia Roberts in that movie.

967
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.440
I don't know that it's one that I would go

968
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:51.239
back and watch very often, but I feel like it's

969
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.119
it's good enough to say it's one that you see

970
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.559
it once and it sticks with you. So I applaud

971
00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:58.000
him for that.

972
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.360
Huge movie for her at that point in her career

973
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:02.400
is huge.

974
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:05.519
Yeah, yeah, because that was what ninety three.

975
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:08.079
Yeah, I mean it was probably her biggest hit after

976
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.119
a Pretty Woman. You know it kind of maybe what

977
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.960
was the proof of concept that she was going to

978
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:15.079
be around, she was gonna, you know, continue to be

979
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:16.039
a big, big star.

980
00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:17.039
Yeah, yep.

981
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:19.280
And I think we saw hints of her as a

982
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:24.599
dramatic actress in Pretty Woman, but Sleeping with the Enemy definitely, yeah,

983
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:27.239
drove that home that she definitely has the chops to

984
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:28.719
be able to carry that kind of a movie.

985
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:31.039
Absolutely, And they came out in ninety one, not ninety three.

986
00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:34.159
He graduated from high school, so okay.

987
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:38.599
Wow, later than that, but.

988
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:40.199
It almost has to be her first Beacon after Pretty.

989
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:44.280
Woman, Yeah, any other movies by this director that we

990
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.079
would recommend.

991
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.199
Those are the three that I would focus on in

992
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:53.519
my opinion, besides dreams keep of course, right of course, yeah,

993
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:53.960
what about you?

994
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:56.519
He did some cheesy comedies in the seventies and stuff.

995
00:51:56.559 --> 00:52:00.519
But but you know, I think he he got he's

996
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:04.199
you know, found himself a dreamscape and then he hit

997
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.199
with those other three movies, and to me, that's that's

998
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:08.039
the book on him.

999
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:13.000
So yeah, cool, Well, final thoughts on this movie? Would

1000
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:15.679
you recommend seeing this movie as somebody who hasn't before?

1001
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:19.320
Without question, everyone should see this movie because it's just

1002
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:21.840
like Dave def Dave said, this is a hidden gilm.

1003
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:23.760
When we even talked about a film like this is

1004
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:26.039
a hidden gym. This is why we're talking about this

1005
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:29.599
movie on this podcast. Watch this movie. You got an opportunity,

1006
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:31.119
I mean, for crying out loud. You can watch it

1007
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.199
free in multiple places right now, and definitely check it out.

1008
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:36.840
It's only what ninety minutes long?

1009
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:38.159
Yeah? If that?

1010
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:40.920
You know, if that, it's it's worth a ninety minute

1011
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.159
viewing and you'll be entertained by it, I promise.

1012
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.400
Cool. Definitely have any final thoughts on Dreamscape.

1013
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:49.360
I just I totally agree. You know, to me, it

1014
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.480
brings to mind a lot of different movies, a lot

1015
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:54.119
we've already talked about it, so we didn't. I mean,

1016
00:52:54.119 --> 00:52:55.960
to me, I think of scanners. You know, you got

1017
00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.079
you know, the government using you know, psychics and stuff

1018
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:01.559
like that. I haven't thought of House with George went

1019
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:04.000
in this, you know, and here he's a horror writer.

1020
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:06.159
In House, he's the next door neighbor to the horror writer.

1021
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.440
And of course I think about Inception and you know,

1022
00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:12.000
you get a little bit of clash of the Titans

1023
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:14.360
with the with the snake man action going on. So

1024
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.559
it to me, like it just it. I just see

1025
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:20.480
a lot of connections to a lot of different movies.

1026
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:22.920
And I love everything about the eighties. I love the

1027
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.400
practical effects. I love the practical stunts. There's a stunt

1028
00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:29.039
in here that's a small part of the movie. But

1029
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:30.920
but we don't need to take it for granted. He's

1030
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:33.360
they go back to the race track and he's being chased.

1031
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.239
They jump a motorcycle like over a fence like you

1032
00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:39.599
saw in The Great Escape, and like somebody did that.

1033
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:43.639
I mean, that's no joke. So I love I love this.

1034
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.559
I love watching eighties movies and that pre cgi era

1035
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:49.719
where you're having to like actually perform stunts in front

1036
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:53.960
of the camera. So it's it's it's eighties gold for me.

1037
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:57.440
Yeah. Of all the movies that I accidentally found on

1038
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:01.039
eighties cable, this is one of the famists. And I

1039
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:02.880
feel like it's kind of unfortunately because every time I'd

1040
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:04.480
see it would be halfway through the movie and then

1041
00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:08.599
I'm like, hey, I want to see the rest. All right, listeners, Well,

1042
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:12.199
thanks for joining us. We'll be coming back to you

1043
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.480
with a Halloween treat this week. David and I are

1044
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:17.719
serving up a film at forty five with our coverage

1045
00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:21.400
of a night another nineteen seventy nine classic, none other

1046
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:26.000
than Don Coscarelli's Phantasm. That's right, I love talking about that.

1047
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.760
I can't wait till the listeners here.

1048
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:32.119
Well, what do you think of Dreamscape? Is there anything

1049
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:34.199
that we missed or anything you've want to hear more about?

1050
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.679
Let us know on social media, including Facebook and Instagram.

1051
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:41.440
Check out www. Dot a film by podcast dot com

1052
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:44.880
for film and TV articles and our entire library that's

1053
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:47.599
streaming free. Write to us at a film by Podcast

1054
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:48.519
at gmail.

1055
00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:51.920
Dot Hey everybody. Jeff Johnson here from a Film By

1056
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:56.199
podcast with some exciting news before you start today's episode.

1057
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:01.079
This Friday, November first, at seven pm, will be joined

1058
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:06.559
by actress Tiffany Helm and writer director Nio cavosos Garcia

1059
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:12.079
talking about their new Christmas horror movie, Catnip. It's being

1060
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:17.360
called Grimlins for grownups, featuring a ferocious band of feral

1061
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:22.280
killer cats and the best part is you can be

1062
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:26.440
involved in this production. The Catnip Kickstarter campaign is live

1063
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:30.840
right now and during Friday's episode, the cat Nippers will

1064
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.239
be offering a contest for all the viewers who contribute

1065
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:37.320
money to their campaign. One lucky winner will be drawn

1066
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.760
for a perk package upgrade. You donate one hundred dollars,

1067
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:42.840
you could be awarded the perks from the two hundred

1068
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:45.679
fifty dollars package. Donate two hundred and fifty dollars and

1069
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.280
you could get the five hundred dollars perks and so on.

1070
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:51.880
So make sure you tune in this Friday at seven pm,

1071
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:56.119
and remember when you're donating to the Catnip movie, include

1072
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.639
the phrase a film buy in the comments of your

1073
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:03.639
Kickstarter pledge to participate in this cool contest. The website

1074
00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:08.519
is Catnipmovie campaign dot com. Just click on the link

1075
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:12.280
you'll find in today's show notes and join us this Friday,

1076
00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:15.480
November first, at seven pm. You don't want to miss

1077
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:19.159
this conversation or this contest dot com.

1078
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:22.239
With your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read

1079
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:24.239
your response on the show and send you a little

1080
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:27.280
bit of film by swag Deaf Dave. Thank you for

1081
00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:31.119
joining us. We would love to have you back anytime asolutely.

1082
00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:33.920
I appreciate, especially talking nineteen eighty four. You know you

1083
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:34.679
know I'm down for it.

1084
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:36.960
We'll get you back anytime. And hey, if you ever

1085
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:38.920
want to talk about Star Trek, We've got a little

1086
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:40.519
show that you know you might want to be on

1087
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:40.840
it from.

1088
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.199
Time to time Star Trek And like I said, Temple

1089
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.280
of Doom, I'm ready to have that conversation. I'll take

1090
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:46.000
on all haters.

1091
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:49.960
Fantastic And as always, thank you David Burns for chatting

1092
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:51.960
with me on another episode. We'll be talking soon on

1093
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.519
a film at forty five and Phasers set to stun

1094
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:58.119
absolutely look forward kid, all right, and as always, most

1095
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:00.480
of all, thank you to our listeners. We'll see you

1096
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:01.960
next time on a film by podcast