Lee Daniels: The Paperboy

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When I read your message, I
immediately could not wait. I was so

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excited to get home because I was
like, I don't know, I don't

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know what I'm about to watch,
but just based off of you know what

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did you say? What the actual
buck? Did you just make me watch?

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Yes, buckle up, this one's
gonna be good. Yeah. Truthfully,

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I don't know what I expected,
but I know I wasn't prepared for

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I know exactly what I expected,
and I was not prepared and I was

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not expecting any of this. Let's
talk about a film by Lee Daniels,

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his twenty twelve underrated crime drama The
paper Boy. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff

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Johnson. H I'm Amber Lewis,
and this is a film by podcast.

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Before we get going, we Amber, we got to talk. We have

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yet another new Patreon member. I
would like to recognize our most recent member,

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Tracy Claire. So, Tracy,
thank you for subscribing, Thank you

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for joining the Patreon. We hope
you are loving all of the exclusive content

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that we provide there. And Amber, I gotta tell you, Tracy actually

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reached out has an idea for an
episode for us, and I was so

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excited when I read, Hey,
I love it when listeners do that.

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Yes, this one is gonna be
we might, we might, you and

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I might want to call in some
help for this one, oh boy,

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because it's gonna be a on one. So I won't, I won't.

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I won't spill any more about that
because I know we've got a lot to

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talk about with today's episode. Uh
well, welcome Tracy, and we will

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get into your suggestion. Absolutely we
will. Today's today's film, Lee Daniels

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The Paperboy, We've got social injustices, racial tensions, violence, and sexual

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ideologies in a coming of age love
story in the late sixties South Amber.

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For those of us that have not
yet seen it, can you can you

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give us most of us? Most
of us? Yeah? Can you give

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us a quick synopsis? A reporter
returns to his Florida hometown to investigate a

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case involving a death row inmate.
And I do you think that that's what

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this one is about? I think
I think that I think that's, you

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know, maybe the shell of what
this movie is. It's, yeah,

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that's that's certainly, that's certainly happening
in this movie, But there's so much

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more happening. I didn't have that
much going in. This was a first

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time watch for me. I know
it was a first time watched for you.

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And just based off of looking,
just knowing, just seeing the poster

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for this film, the film's one
sheet. I expected something completely different,

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and I'm so happy like what I
had my expectations, I'm glad that Lee

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Daniels did the exact opposite of Well, I don't know about that, but

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I know that I thought I was
going to watch a movie similar to things

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we've seen before. This isn't like
a brand new story idea, No,

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but I thought that I couldn't understand
how with all of these stars in it,

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like how I had never even heard
of this movie. I honestly,

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I thought this was gonna be a
little cliched. I thought this was gonna

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be Matthew McConaughey come to come in
to save a death row inmate wrongly convicted.

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Uh, it's the sixties, it's
the it's the South, deep South.

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So I assumed he's going to be
coming in to save a black man

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unjustly accused. Far from it.
Yes, Yeah, we got we gotta,

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we gotta get into this. Uh. I want to ask you this

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question, Uh before we talk about
cast and crew. But this kind of

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gives off a to kill a mockingbird
vibe almost like a it feels like it's

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like it's it's R rated cousin.
No, you don't feel that, you

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don't see that. No, okay, oh listeners, there is nothing to

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kill a mockingbird here? No?
Oh what you don't even feel like there's

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no related DNA. I mean it
takes place in the South, yeah,

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social injustices and you know, just
like the we've got the we got the

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narrator vibe. No nothing, Okay, I love I love that we're already

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off on different different footing here.
Well, I can tell that you enjoyed

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yourself, and I hated every moment
of this, so oh wow, I'm

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not gonna say that I enjoyed myself. This is not the feel good movie.

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No, you know, but I
mean I enjoyed it, like you

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know, oh yeah, this was
a good ride or whatever. I'm not

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gonna lie I I yeah, I
mean, I oh my gosh. Okay,

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okay, well all right, let's
we're gonna we're gonna get into this.

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Let's let's talk about the cast a
little bit. So that's the only

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way I can get into this because
it's such a bunker's crazy narrative. Like,

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all right, so Zach Effron as
Jack Jansen. Now he's the second

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choice for this role, behind Alex
Pettipher, who I think alternately decides to

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do Magic Mike. But a year
later I read Toby McGuire, No,

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no, no, Toby McGuire,
was that actually, uh, he was

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in line for McConaughey's role. Oh
well, that makes more sense because when

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I read that, I was like, he's too old, like exactly,

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yeah, and this is that makes
more sense. I think this is Uh,

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I don't. I don't know much
about Zach Affron's high school musical days.

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I didn't. I didn't really know
Zach Effron, but I can tell

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you after seeing recently seeing The Iron
Claw, where he plays one of the

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von Erics, he has a spectacular
dramatic actor and I think, you know,

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I have to look at this philmography, but I can't imagine he did

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something before this movie to kind of
show that. Because this this is why

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I could see him being cast in
The Iron Claw based off of what I

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saw him do in this movie.
Similarly, I have the same kind of

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thought I was watching it. I'm
I'm still not sure how I feel about

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him in this movie. But I
did think did he make this before or

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after the Ted Bundy movie? And
it was before and this was an I

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thought this is how he got that
job, so that yeah, this is

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before the Bundy movie, right,
Yes, okay? And that that again

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that makes sense. He's he's he
plays one of those characters where he is

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incredibly flawed, has a lot of
emotional baggage. I don't know watching it.

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At times I'm watching his performance in
this there are moments where I feel

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sorry for him. There's moments where
I relate to him. There's moments where

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I absolutely am disgusted by him,
and I think he really like his the

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the journey that his character takes is
a good one, I think in the

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end, yes, can we agree
to that? Okay? Yeah, for

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sure? In his like layers,
I felt he was the most real.

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Yes, his character has the most
potential for growth. I feel like to

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become a better person, to become, to do more with themselves. Speaking

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of doing more, I gotta I
gotta ask you about Macy Gray. She's

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first scene and I was like,
holy crap, is that Macy Gray like

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she is so amazing in this I
the minute she she spoke, I recognize

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this is Macy Gray. She's got
that. There's something about her voice.

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Yes, it's very unique, very
unique, but very It's just it's it's

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intoxicating to me, like it pulls
me in. I want to hear her.

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I want to hear her speak.
I want to hear her sing.

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The role was offered to Oprah Winfrey, who turned it down, and I

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gotta tell you, I am so
happy that happened. Yeah, it would

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have been a completely different movie.
It would have it would have been more.

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Yeah. I don't want to get
into what kind of movie it would

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have been, but yeah, why
aren't we getting more Macy Gray. She

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has seventy credits on IMDb right now. Yeah, that's what shocked me.

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The majority of them, Yeah,
the majority of them are music videos.

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Hear me as herself, Like if
you think like again, Tobby, we

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mentioned Toby maguire, She's in Spider
Man. She's but she's playing Macy Gray,

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who is doing a concert. And
then she has some small background roles

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where she's woman in the church or
you know, she not a not a

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real role, so she only has
a handful of prominent roles, and when

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you think about, like what she
did in training Day and what she's doing

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here, I feel like this woman
has such range and I am asking,

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why don't we see more of her? Yes, especially because I felt like

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her character could have been, I
guess, just stereotypical, and she like

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brought in these complex layers just with
her face and her facial expressions and like

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her body language. Working for someone
in their home is a very complex,

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strange relationship. Yeah, I mean
she's I think this is this is late

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sixties. I think it's is it
Georgia. I think the movie takes place

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Florida. Okay, Florida, thank
you. So it's late sixties in the

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South Florida. She's working for a
white family that is more or less well

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to do, but very dysfunctional,
very dysfunctional. Yeah, I don't know.

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I think she is just she has
taken it to another level in this

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film. And when you think about, like that opening scene, you know

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where she's getting that she's giving that
deposition and she I don't know. I

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immediately I'm like, do I do
we trust Macy Gray? Because it kind

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of gave me that feeling of her
role in Training Day where she's kind of

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devious, and I was like,
who is she protecting? Yeah, who's

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she protecting? And who's she out
to get? And ultimately I was so

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I was thrilled with with the direction
that her character took because I I just

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I fell in love with her character
really, Yes, loved it, Yeah,

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a different kind of love. We
got to talk about Nicole Kidman as

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Charlotte Bless so she replaces Sophia Fergara, which I found to be quite a

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surprise. Not so much when you
realize that the film was initially being considered

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by Pedro Almodovar, but he ends
up passing on it, which we get.

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That's how we get Lee Daniels.
Nicole Kidman goes full method acting for

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the role, and even goes so
far as to arrange that all interactions on

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set between her and John Cusack have
to be in character. Yeah. I

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don't know. I think that she
was either horrifically miscast or horrifically miss styled.

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It's like putting Grace Kelly in a
trailer park, Like, it just

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doesn't work. There's nothing about her
matched she was supposed to be. Yeah,

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So it's either Nicole Kimmen, in
her essence, cannot be that or

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like I was thinking of Dakota Fanning
playing Squeaky from in Once upon a Time

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in Hollywood, Like, Dakota Fanning
is beautiful young woman, and she looks

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so skeazy and dirty and nasty in
that movie, as she should, and

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nothing about Nicole Kimmen read poor white
trash Florida, no nasty, no.

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So it was just to me,
it just was Nicole Kimmen being a self

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indulgent actress. Let me show you
what I can do. I can do

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this, I can say curse words
and do nasty sex scenes and you know

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it, just I thought, this
is Nicole Kibben taking a big step out

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on the ledge and doing something we
are we're not accustomed to seeing her do.

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Maybe we're not ready to see her
do. Yeah, but she's still

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an Cole Kimmen, like she's not. She did not become this person,

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you don't think. So it was
just a cold Kimmen like, look at

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me, I can do these things. She well, you talked about her,

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look so like she's doing laundry and
one scene and I never for one

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second believed that that woman has ever
done a load of laundry in her life.

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Okay, well despite despite her her
laundry skill sets. Now she does

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do her own makeup on this film, and she creates that trashy look for

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Charlotte to have, which she kind
of worked for me. You know that

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that eyeliner, Yeah, that's just
vintage sixties look. Like even when she

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takes off her wig, like her
hair underneath should have looked like ratty and

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oily, and and it just looked
like the same hair, only not curly.

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I'm I'm all for trashing Nicole Kimmen
in this and and I wanted more

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trashy. I wanted, you know, like it just like she should have

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had, Like like her skin is
perfect, she should have had bad skin.

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Somebody, a professional makeup artist should
have layered her with like bad skin

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underneath. She should have maybe put
on some weight. But that's just it.

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Like this is this is a low
budget movie, and so they can't

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even afford you know, when they
when they're struggling to figure out, like

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how we're going to hire a makeup
person, that's where she she tells Lee

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Daniels like, Hey, I I'll
do my own makeup. I'll come up

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with a look by myself. I
guess in my in my mind, the

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first when you say Nicole Kimmen,
I immediately think long flowing, curly red

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hair, you know, Days of
thunder Farm. You're like le Kidman.

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Yeah, in my that's my head, like nineteen eighties Nicole Kidmen. So

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when I see Okay, okay,
we got a lot to talk about it.

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We told you the opinions are stacked. Yeah, okay, Well let's

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let's let's see. We got a
couple more people I want to talk about

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before we talk about some of these
these very provocative scenes. David O yoloo,

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good time. I got it.
Yeah. Yes, he's playing Yardley

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Aikman, which is Matthew McConaughey's writing
partner for the Miami Newspaper. He is

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a he's got a very busy twenty
twelve he he does in addition to the

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Paperboy, he puts out Redtails,
Middle of Nowhere, Lincoln and Jack Reacher.

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And if you thought like he was
saving himself up, he does I

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think three three episodes of television and
four movies the year before finally takes a

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break. You know. The following
year he only does like one or two

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movies, and one of them happens
to be Lee Daniels The Butler, which

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I know we'll talk a little bit
about later. But I love this guy.

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Anytime he shows up in a film, you know you're in for a

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treat. Yes, the minute he
showed up on screen, I felt the

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same way. I was like,
oh, yes, this guy's didn't love

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it, and I think he ended
up being the most complex character in a

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whole deck full of characters, his
character listeners. I'm gonna go ahead and

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say this, Amber and I can't
discuss this movie without giving away some heavy

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spoilers. So we're gonna do that. So if you'll I please go,

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you know, turn on Hulu,
turn on Peacock, turn on the Roku

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channel, watch this movie. If
you want to go spoiler free for the

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rest of this conversation, you will
not be disappointed. Or maybe you will,

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depending on whether you're a team Amber
or not. But I'm telling you

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check it out. But all right, I'm not saying don't watch it.

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I'm just saying, yeah, but
but spoilers be damned. Uh. And

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to your point, that's that that
one small scene he has, that interaction

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he has with Zac Efron towards his
real is revealed. I mean, talk

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about sinister. I didn't see that
coming at all. And and just the

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fierceness that he has when he delivers
that that line. Well, and we

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had spoken previously about my love for
journalism movies and journalist movies, and so

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I am constantly wanting to put journalists
in that box of like they're fighting for

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what's right and they're telling the truth
against all odds, and you know,

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revealing the truth, and uh,
you know sometimes they're just not just this

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is this is the this is the
ugly side of journalism. As far as

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uh film, he wanted his book
deal and and I did a little bit

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feel for him, you know when
he says, like, I'm a black

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man in Florida. How do you
think I'm going to in the sixties?

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How do you think I'm gonna get
a job? Yeah, you know,

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you gotta create this persona that makes
you acceptable. Yeah, he's I mean,

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when we're introduced to his character,
he's he's this uh, somewhat flamboyant,

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idealistic guy from London who impeccably dressed
a gentleman's gentleman. Right, Yes,

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just fantastic and you so for a
lot of the movie, I'm feeling

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for him. I'm I'm I'm like
this, you know, this guy deserves

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better. He should. But then
when you get to that reveal, like

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a like a dark cloud that comes
over the sunshine of them, Yes,

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of his character and well and in
like you know in those movies where like

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you get the reveal and then the
movie will show you like all these scenes

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that you miss, you know,
like in a m Night Shemalan movie.

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Yeah, like a Usual Suspects.
And that's what I was doing when he

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did that scene. I was like, this changes everything. Yeah, it's

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oh yeah, like it totally changes
everything you've you've been believing up up to

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that point. Yes. Ah,
so, uh we talked. We talked

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about Tommy maguire, who was originally
cast as Ward Jansen, but he drops

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out for scheduling, so we get
Matthew McConaughey, who I kind of feel

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is the go to guy for the
white crusader for justice in the South role.

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Mm. If you have that role, if you're writing that role,

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you probably hear his voice, you
probably see his face. He does it,

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I mean, he does it really
well. But here he's going to

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a really dark place with the character. But I thought he was perfect.

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He was perfect, Yeah, like
he and Macy Gray like made this movie.

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Yes, I just thought he was
amazing. And I did not see

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his reveal coming like at all.
Never never saw that coming, because you

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see McConaughey and you think, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna get a little

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southern charm, we're gonna get a
hint of a bad boy, but also

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does the right thing. He's gonna
save the day. And this is a

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00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:32.759
broken Matthew McConaughey in this film.
Yes, this is a troubled, repressed,

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guilt ridden Matthew McConaughey that I've never
seen. I don't. I don't

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think i've ever seen this kind of
McConaughey in a movie, have you.

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Well, No, I mean the
level of like self loathing, which is

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it's just mass Yeah, it's it's
so massd at the beginning, like here's

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the guy. He's coming coming back
home to save the day and get this

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wrongly convicted prisoner out of off death
row. And of course he's gonna do

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it, and of course he's gonna
win. Well, and you're surrounded by

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all of these really ugly people behaving
in really ugly ways. And he was

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always like the peacekeeper, the sense
of humor, the relaxed one. You

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know. I love that scene when
zac Efron is like fighting David. Oh

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oh your wait, yeah you had
it, you had it and I lost

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00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:37.680
it. But anyway, yeah,
welling yard, but anyway, and McConaughey

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just walks past, like very calmly. He's like, stop choking him,

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let's go. Yeah, very like
telling your your two brothers to knock it

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off. You know, Like as
the fight's going, he's still like on

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his typewriter, you know, he's
like, stop choking him, Stop choking

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him. So to see all of
those, you know, positive attributes and

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then just have it completely fall apart, yeah, you know, like A

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House of Cards was just mind blowing, more mind blowing for me. And

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again what I definitely was not prepared
for John Cusack, the likable everyman that

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we have known since uh the early
eighties. John Cusack is the convicted prisoner

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on death row, and my god, is he repulsive. Yeah? I

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hated him. I hated everything about
him. I hated all of this,

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Like I it's wrong to pigeonhole actors
and to not want them to stretch and

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do things that interest them. But
I'm sorry, Lloyd Dobbler, does that

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behave like this? This is not
hit kick boxing the sport of the future

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did not pay off for the way
dollaries. No, No, he was

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00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.359
so gross. Okay, he was
so gross. The way he looked was

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the way Nicole Kidman should have looked
with then, like a veneer of makeup

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overneath. Okay, all right,
so let me ask you he came in

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and he makes you want to puke. Not that I don't want to jump

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00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.799
back to Nicole Kibben, but I
will ask just a quick question. Let's

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00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:23.759
say we had the money on this
budget for a professional makeup artist and she

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gets the makeup effect that you're you're
talking about. Are you then happy with

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Nicole Kibben and this maybe? Maybe? Okay, I'll take I'll take maybe

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for now. Uh I. I
honestly I had. I had such strong

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hope once I realized Cusack was our
convicted prisoner on death row. And she's

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reading these these poetic letters and you
know where he's describing her as an angel

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and then and I'm like and McConaughey's
coming to save John Cusack. This is

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yeah, let's do this is hero
mode. Let's let's do it. But

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when he shuffles out, and I
don't want to talk about it too much

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because I want to save it for
you know, there's a couple of scenes

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I want to talk about a little
bit more in detail, but our introduction

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to John csck and this made me
sick to my stomach. He's disgusting.

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He's disgusting, and he makes her
more disgusting because she's she is vile like

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and I don't mean she was just
kind of like bunkers weird. Yeah,

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there's women like that whatever, but
the amount of self destructive like victim behavior.

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Yeah, I speaking of her,
speaking of her her character, did

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you did you? Did you?
Did you know that Lee Daniels had her

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meet several women who who carry on
romantic relationships with prisoners, Like they kind

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00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.119
of had like a meet and greet, not a meet and greet, but

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like she had the opportunity to talk
to these women and kind of get inside

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their heads. That kind of fits
with what I know of her as an

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00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:08.039
actress though, because she seems like
someone who just researches the heck out of

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everything she does and really gets underneath. I want to talk about one more

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00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.599
person, and it'll probably be the
quickest conversation we have as far as cast

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Scott Glenn, who I absolutely love. Yeah, he plays a character like

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this, he is He's playing the
father W W. Jansen who owns the

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paper. Is Scott Glenn wasted on
this? Because I feel like W.

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W. Jansen could have been played
by literally anybody else and we could have

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saved we could have saved the money
to get the makeup artist. Because I

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00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.240
love Scott Glenn, but this is
the most non Scott Glenn role I've ever

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00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.359
seen him do, and I just
feel like this could have been anybody.

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Am I wrong? You're not wrong. I think the thing that Scott Glenn

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brings to it. But then again
to your point, like Ed Harris could

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have also brought that to it.
Yeah, is like this veneer of hope

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because they usually play more righteous people, m h. And he's just supremely

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self evolved and disinterested in his children. And you know, it shows you

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that they were you know, they
were abandoned by their mother, but they

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00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.599
were also really abandoned by him,
as well, maybe more so. At

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00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.759
least he's there, but he's not
you know, right, He's just not

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interested. So yeah, I mean
I think that he I kept wanting him

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to be better. I kept wanting
him to kick that horrible woman out of

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the house. And but I,
like I said, I think like Ed

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Harris could have done that too,
where you're like, no, Ed Harris,

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you're a good man, you know, like no Scotland, You're good

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And I kept waiting for that and
it never happened. Yeah, watch it.

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I keep waiting for there to be
a defining moment for for for Scott

325
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.720
Glenn to be in this. It
never came. And then I got to

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00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:14.079
a point where I'm thinking about Wayne's
world where Wayne has to get directions from

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the guests attendant and the old man's
kind of stumbling, and he's like,

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00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.440
I know it's not a big role, but can we get can we at

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00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:23.640
least get somebody, and they pull
on Charlton Heston from it, like I

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feel like we had someone just a
common actor, you know, a day

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00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.440
player doing this role. And then
Lee Daniels, Hey, I know it's

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not a big role, but can
we at least get somebody to then and

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00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.839
then Scott Glenn walked in and put
on some mutton chops and I was like,

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00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.680
yeah, because then that levels the
playing field with the other cast.

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I think, so right. I
don't know, I just feel like he

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00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.079
was wasted on this movie. And
but let's take a quick break and when

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we get back, we will we'll
talk a little bit about this film's background

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00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:04.200
and start breaking down some of these
these scenes. We are back talking about

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Lee Daniels The paper Boy. So, following the success of Precious, Daniels

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00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.720
is showered with multiple scripts and offers. He passes on all of them in

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00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:22.400
order to do this movie, because
he says, in addition to the novel

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00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:30.599
Push, the paper Boy is quote
one of the great great novels, talking

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00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:36.160
of course about Pete Dexter's nineteen ninety
five novel of the same name, which

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00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.920
was inspired by a true story.
Dexter allegedly does not like this film adaptation.

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00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:48.079
It's safe to say Pete Dexter is
team Amber. I do want to

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00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.440
read the book though. This is
one of those movies where I saw the

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00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:52.799
movie now I now I want to
go read the book. I think,

348
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.240
yeah, I feel the same way, especially knowing that he wasn't thrilled with

349
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:02.759
the movie, and it is based
on a true story, Like, so

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now I'm a little more intrigued.
Might have to go order that one after

351
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:10.920
we're done talking here. The film
did premiere at the can Film Festival,

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reportedly received a fifteen minute standing ovation. Zach Effron said he and Lee Daniels

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were crying over that. Although I'm
gonna reject Okay, if you read,

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00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.839
if you read some more of the
reviews, there's one review that says this

355
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:34.200
legendary standing ovation. Like if you
expand the term standing ovation to include like

356
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:41.119
booing and whistling and hissing and ye
you know that kind of behavior, then

357
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:48.200
sure, technically people were on their
feet make the noise. So I think

358
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.599
there might be a little bit of
spin involved. I can think of a

359
00:29:51.640 --> 00:30:00.279
couple movies where a standing boo what
would be called for. But whether whether

360
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.720
or not it was it was cheers
or jeers, you can't deny. It

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00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:11.039
was nominated for the festival's top prize, the Palmdure. So good or bad.

362
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:17.440
If you're getting that kind of attention, that says something and Amber you

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00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:22.119
are not a fan of Kidman in
this, but she was nominated for the

364
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.240
Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress.
Yeah. I mean, she did definitely

365
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.400
play a character. We've never seen
her do this kind of thing before.

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I just don't know if she was
the right one. I don't know who

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00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.079
else I would have picked, but
I don't know that that she did the

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00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.279
best job in that character. I
want to talk about the pivotal scene.

369
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.799
But before we do that, let's
there's there's four or five scenes. I

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00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:48.000
want to just quickly, let's let's
spit a minute or two. Well,

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00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.480
I've got one. I've got one
for you. I've got one that I

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00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.920
feel is a pivotal, pivotal moment
in this film. Okay, but we're

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gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna
roll through a couple of them, and

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00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.440
then then I'll ask you if you
you know, doesn't sound like you have

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00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.440
one, but we'll give you that
opportunity. I want to talk about the

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00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:14.799
first meeting between John c Sex's character
Hillary and Charlotte. It might be the

377
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.759
most awkward moment in the entire film. I was so uncomfortable watching it.

378
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:23.880
Yeah, I was uncomfortable for Matthew
McConaughey and Zac Efron and David o'lielo.

379
00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:30.240
Yes, I'm like, they're just
they're just sitting there and it's just ugh,

380
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.920
it's it's disgusting. Yes, absolutely
made me want to throw up.

381
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.720
It was. It was gross.
It was and I don't know there was

382
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:45.039
any point or purpose to it other
than to be shocking for the sake of

383
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.079
being shocking. I think if if
there's a point to the scene, it's

384
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:56.319
the fact that we need to know
that John q s X's character at this

385
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.599
point. We don't know if he's
if he's innocent or not, because McConaughey

386
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.680
is here to fight for him,
but whether whether or not he's innocent,

387
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:10.599
he's repulsive. He is he is
using h some some pretty ugly language,

388
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:17.160
you know, towards towards Nicole Kibben, towards the rest of them and just

389
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.720
the whole like they're there to save
him, they're there to get information,

390
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:27.039
and he turns it into this really
gross sexual moment between between himself and Kidman.

391
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.799
And and that's the memo where I'm
like, ugh, she is,

392
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:37.599
she's disgusting. Yeah, And and
Bonker's damaged. Oh gosh, yah.

393
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:43.839
I don't know. I feel like
you get a lot of that abusive dynamic

394
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:49.200
with the next I think it's the
next jail scene when she comes in wearing

395
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.240
the pants and he yells at her
for wearing pants, and her reaction to

396
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:57.599
him yelling at her. I feel
like you get. That's all you need

397
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:02.720
to know about their dynamic and about
what she feels she deserves as a person,

398
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.000
what she's willing to put up with
as a person, and who he

399
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:13.960
really is. Well, let's let's
talk about another one that potentially is shocking

400
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:19.480
for the sake of being shocking,
the jellyfish scene. Everybody's making a big

401
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.279
deal out of this. I don't
for one second believe that Nicole Kimmon really

402
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:28.119
peat on him like she she refuses
to reveal how real the the moment is,

403
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:32.640
which I don't get because if if
it's fake, just yeah, of

404
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:36.079
course it's a movie. Just to
just say it's a movie and it's fake.

405
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.519
Obviously it's fake. Uh. Daniels
was even uncertain about the scene during

406
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:46.359
editing and consulted her and her response, I'm reading a quote here. Her

407
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:51.759
response was, lee, you maybe
pee on Zach Effron. If you don't

408
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.799
put in the movie, you need
to man up because it's you know it's

409
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:00.319
that that that that that whole.
Hey, you got stung by jelly fish,

410
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:01.160
you know, the only thing you
can do is pee on it.

411
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:06.960
You know, We've seen it done
comically on like the show Friends right here,

412
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.840
and I hate that a perpetuates listeners. Do not do this to people.

413
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.760
Don't pee on people. Think it's
somebody Josh should right, Like that's

414
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.960
just a good rule. However,
in this instant, like he really was,

415
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:30.239
he was gonna die, like yeah, And there is arguments to both

416
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:34.679
sides saying it's effective or if it's
not, and this was the sixties,

417
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:37.559
they can't call nine one one like
it's going to take time to gain rescue.

418
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:42.000
So maybe maybe not in the moment, I think it had more to

419
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:49.000
do with her getting to abuse someone
else, her getting to be dominant over

420
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:54.199
a weaker person. Wow, Okay, Like I saw it as a whole

421
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:00.840
like metaphor thing I do too,
But I'm going going to go a whole

422
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.639
different direction. But I'm gonna put
a pin in it because because there's a

423
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:06.679
few more scenes I want to talk
about, and I know I don't want

424
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:08.079
to. I don't want to dwell
too long on each of these scenes.

425
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:14.000
But let's move along to the boy
we could. Yeah, let's move along

426
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:20.239
to another wow moment in this film, Another big reveal, another shocking moment.

427
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:27.039
Talking about Matthew McConaughey's motel scene,
Oh God, so traumatic, so

428
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:31.400
traumatic, Like it was so upsetting
because I was kind of I don't know,

429
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:40.000
I feel like the reveal that he's
gay in the bar was so like

430
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:45.159
mind blowing, Like I didn't see
it coming yep, And it just like

431
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.920
threw back the curtain to so much
of who he is and his interactions with

432
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.079
people and why he doesn't come home, and like the conversation they had with

433
00:35:55.159 --> 00:36:00.119
zac Efron in the in the swamp, I'm like, oh, oh,

434
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:04.519
the light is on, Like now
I understand him so much more. And

435
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:09.280
then to have it take this like
just horrifically violent turn was just disgusting.

436
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:15.320
The reveal that he's a gay man
in the late sixties in the South,

437
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:20.639
that's one thing. But once you
put the pieces together and you understand that

438
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:27.039
there's some darker stuff happening where he's
got this this bondage kink and this he's

439
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.800
really into the whole s and M
and you know, being abused situation.

440
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:36.239
I mean, we zac Efron's looking
on in terror outside the window as he's

441
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.000
trying desperately to get inside this motel
room, and you see there's McConaughey,

442
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:44.199
like we've never seen it before.
He is naked, face down on the

443
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:50.000
floor, hogtiede bleeding, beaten on
a piece of plastic, like like he's

444
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.639
about to be murdered you. And
that's what my Initially I'm thinking, these

445
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:58.320
guys are going to kill him.
But when you when you kind of put

446
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:02.000
the pieces together, and there's some
there's some dialogue before that, way before

447
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.719
the scene, and there's some dialogue
after the scene where you kind of put

448
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:07.800
it together and you're like, oh, now I see what's going on.

449
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:10.360
This is something he's kind of into, he kind of wants, and obviously

450
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.119
it goes way too far in the
motel. In the motel room, it's

451
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.000
like he gets a little bit more
than what he bargained for. But you

452
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:21.119
gotta remember, like even at like
when he first comes home and Macy Gray

453
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:22.760
has that line where she's like,
hey, you need to stay away from

454
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.840
that rough stuff, you know,
because they've they've got an understanding. She

455
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.760
knows, she knows exactly who he
is, and yeah, who he is

456
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.719
and what he's into and kind of
like in a motherly way, she's like,

457
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:36.239
hey, you need to you need
this. Away from that, he's

458
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.239
got some scars that they kind of
point to, but they never say how

459
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.159
he gets them, so you gotta
you know, there's a lot of a

460
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.280
lot of Sadamascus stuff going on with
him where he's I didn't think I didn't

461
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:52.280
go there. I thought it was
more I didn't think about the scars that's

462
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:54.880
making me reevaluate because I thought it
was more like like you said, to

463
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:59.320
be a gay man in the sixties
in the South, and this is like

464
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.360
deep South Florida, the amount of
like you're not just in the closet,

465
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.360
like you hate yourself. There's a
some loathing. There are layers of rings

466
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.880
it up. Yeah, I thought
it was more like that, like he

467
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:16.920
knows picking up these men is dangerous, but that's kind of like what he

468
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:25.119
deserves. Yes, his his self
repulsion is pushing him to this dangerous behavior

469
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:32.199
where he's he's enjoying himself to a
point that ultimately it's going to lead to

470
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.599
his demise. And I got I
got something more on on this. But

471
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:39.559
you know, before we get to
that scene. We gotta get to where

472
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:44.679
I gotta as as as difficult as
is to discuss. We got to talk

473
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:50.599
about one more scene. I'm talking
about when when Hillary comes home, Oh

474
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.519
this Amber. I'll be honest if
you tell me like, hey, uh,

475
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:58.199
there's this you know, there's a
there's this movie and there's this extended

476
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.599
sex scene with Nicole Kimman. You
know you've got my attention. But when

477
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.400
I see this scene and see how
ugly it is and how rough it is,

478
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:08.719
and this is her first day of
filming, keep this in mind.

479
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.400
First day she walks on set.
This is the world, this is the

480
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.960
scene that's that they're doing. How
do how does she even do that?

481
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.159
Like? How do you how do
you put yourself in the in the headspace

482
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.840
for that? I don't know.
I don't know, because to me,

483
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.960
it was it was not an extended
sex scene. To me, he is

484
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:32.280
one hundred percent raping her, like
this is not a consensual interaction, like

485
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:37.840
at all, other than in an
abusive way that she's kind of thinking,

486
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:40.039
well, I have to just give
him what he wants to make him happy,

487
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.719
Yeah, and he'll stop abusing me, you know, But that's not

488
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:52.559
accurate, but I you know,
I've always kind of been amazed at the

489
00:39:52.679 --> 00:40:00.199
level of communication and trust that would
have to go on on a set be

490
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:04.519
able to pull something like this off. And like she's talked about that with

491
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.840
the show Big Little Eyes, about
the relationship that she and Alexander Sarsgaard had

492
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:16.679
because a lot of their well almost
all of their interactions are either sexual or

493
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.639
abusive or both. You know,
how much of a bond they had to

494
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.280
create and how much trust they had
to have, So I can't imagine this

495
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:28.880
is like, you know, like
if you just think in our lives,

496
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:32.119
like your first day at a new
job and you have to do something so

497
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:42.239
like emotionally and physical, and like
she's intense. She is, She's very

498
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.360
intense. Now we're gonna move,
We're gonna move. We're gonna jump back

499
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.960
to Matthew McConaughey because there's one other
moment I want to talk about, one

500
00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:54.239
other scene I want to talk about, and it's it's the moment that Hillary

501
00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:00.440
Murder's ward with that machete. My
jaw dropped. I had it back.

502
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:02.440
I couldn't even figure out what happened. I was like, what's the what?

503
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:06.519
How was he dead. Yeah,
Well he's got him in that headlock

504
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.599
and I didn't see them, achety, So how is he covered in blood?

505
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:13.199
What just happened? Well, getting
back, you know, we were

506
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.280
talking about how McConaughey is repressed and
he's very guilty and he has that self

507
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.280
loathing and he's wanting that that he's
got. I feel like he has a

508
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.880
death wish because this is another moment
where leading up to the leading up to

509
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.320
that confrontation, John Cusick's character is
yelling out, you know, I got

510
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:34.079
what you want. I know what
you want, and McConaughey is kind of

511
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.920
like he's trying to get trying to
get Zach Graffron and go back to the

512
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.400
boat, go away. You know
I got this. Well, you know,

513
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:44.199
I think McConaughey is going for it
right there. His his character is

514
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.480
going for it right there in that
moment, because with the blade at his

515
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:53.280
throat, he's like, you you
know you want this, and McConaughey has

516
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:57.519
that moment where he goes like with
his last breath, he's gasping. He

517
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:04.480
says yeah yeah, and when you
see just the blood just immediately drench his

518
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:07.400
that white shirt and then he kind
of falls and his fingers are kind of

519
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.079
twitching. I was absolutely shocked.
I was, like, he did he

520
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:16.039
just slit McConaughey's throat. Like McConaughey's
character's dead, because we've seen him just

521
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.840
battered and abused about the whole movie. And I just kept waiting for his

522
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:24.400
redemption moment. It's not going to
come. Yeah, and I through that

523
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:29.440
whole fight, he was struggling so
much because he's only at this point,

524
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.679
he's only got one eye. Yeah, so you know John Cusack already he's

525
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:38.800
still not completely healed, and you
know now he can't see on one side.

526
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:45.800
So John Cusack's character has you know, upper hand. And I thought,

527
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:50.280
really his point was I think he
knew he wasn't going to survive the

528
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:54.000
fight. Yeah. I didn't think
it was like a suicidal kind of thing.

529
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:59.679
I thought it was just I want
to do a good thing to make

530
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.559
up or this mess. So if
zac Efron can get Nicol Kiman out of

531
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:08.760
there while I'm keeping him distracted,
you know, that's that's my redemption,

532
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:12.920
even though I'm not gonna make it. But I think you're right. I

533
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.960
think ultimately it was just kind of
I think he thought in that moment,

534
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:20.719
like, what's the point all these
movies? We We've talked about some pretty

535
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:25.119
heavy scenes. I've got a pivotal
moment in mind. But but before I

536
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.480
get to it, I'm gonna ask
you, is there any moment in this

537
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.679
movie where you're like, this says
a lot about the film. It's not

538
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:35.280
the it's not I didn't see this
this in the trailer. It's not the

539
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:39.800
dramatic ending, but this scene matters
to the to the heart of the story.

540
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.800
I don't know. I just keep
coming back to all the Macy Gray

541
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:49.280
scenes. I think that that's really
to me, that was the heart of

542
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.800
the story, Like, that's really
the love story and the relationship. All

543
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:57.280
I'm gonna I'm gonna hate it so
much of everything else, I don't.

544
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.679
I don't know. I'm gonna give
you my pivotal moment. You're probably gonna

545
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:02.400
be like, you know, I
might be getting the reaction from you here.

546
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:08.079
But because of what you said about
the scene, going back to the

547
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:15.280
jellyfish scene, that moment, that
scene is the pivotal scene for me.

548
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:19.159
And the reason why is I see
it a different way than you do.

549
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.119
You you were talking about how this
is her chance to to be domineering,

550
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:28.320
to take control, to be abusive. I see it a completely different way

551
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:30.159
the scene starts out, you know, because at the heart of this whole

552
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.880
movie, you know, we talked
about this being kind of a coming of

553
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:39.480
age love story. Zac Efron's younger
character is he's absolutely in love with this

554
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:44.280
woman who he can't have, and
that moment where she's kind of like,

555
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:46.159
you know, they're on the beach
and he just looks frustrated, and she's

556
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:47.840
like, you need to find a
girlfriend. You need you know. She

557
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.480
says some other stuff that we won't
repeat here because you know, we have

558
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:58.880
sponsors, but he basically, like
her indifference to him shows right there to

559
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:02.239
him, and I think he tell
like, he basically tells her how he

560
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:07.559
feels about her when he has that
quick moment where he tells her off before

561
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:12.400
he goes into the water to go
and get stung by the jellyfish. The

562
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.800
flip side of that is when he
gets out of the water and he's struggling,

563
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:22.039
he's about that he's in critical danger. The three pretty girls that are

564
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.639
a little ways down the beach,
they see him and they go over there

565
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:27.760
and they're like, oh, we
have to save him, you know,

566
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.639
if we pee on him, it
blah blah blah. And she gets vicious

567
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:36.280
and she kind of you know,
chases him off more or less and kind

568
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.960
of takes ownership of the situation.
And I kind of feel like if she

569
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.960
didn't care about him, if she
didn't have if she if that, if

570
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:49.079
that love was unrequited, she probably
would have told those girls, yeah,

571
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.639
do it, do it. But
because it because she knows it needs to

572
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.960
be her. I feel like that's
her moment where she's saying she's she's kind

573
00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:00.920
of revealing that she has feelings for
him because she doesn't want the indignity or

574
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.440
the embarrassment of this happening to him
by some stranger or a group of strangers.

575
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.119
She does it so that it's it's
at least it's a little more.

576
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.639
She thinks, at least it was
me. Yeah, it's me, and

577
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.000
we can share this together and it
doesn't have to become a thing, even

578
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:22.280
though Scott Glenn makes it a huge
thing. But I don't know that's that's

579
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:27.840
that's the pivotal moment for me.
That's that's an interesting way of looking at

580
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.599
But why is that pivotal to the
story. It doesn't really have anything to

581
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:32.719
do with the rest of the story. Well pivotal in the fact that this

582
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.039
is the moment where they kind of
announce how they feel for each other without

583
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:44.239
telling that's That's what I'm getting at. He when he looks at her angrily

584
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.880
and it is like, you know, fu, he's saying, it's you're

585
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:51.280
the one I want. You're the
one I want to be with. And

586
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:55.239
when she does what she does,
I feel like that's her saying indirectly,

587
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:00.320
her saying I care about you and
I'm in love with you too, even

588
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.679
though they can't say that, they
can't say the words. This is the

589
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:08.320
moment where they show it. That's
what I'm getting at. That's an interesting

590
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:13.440
take. If I was ever going
to watch this movie again, I would

591
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:15.599
watch it with that in mind.
All right, Well, with that in

592
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:20.159
mind, let's take one more break, and when we come back, we'll

593
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:28.280
talk a little bit about Lee Daniels
and some of his movies. We are

594
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:35.480
back, Jeff, do you want
to take us into Lee Daniels projects.

595
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:38.599
Well, before I do, I'll
tell you a little bit about him.

596
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:49.480
So in West Philadelphia, born and
raised unlike unlike the Fresh Prince. His

597
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:55.280
upbringing is quite dark. His police
officer father was very abusive, highly unapproving

598
00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:00.800
of Daniel's homosexuality, and was killed
in the line of duty when Daniels was

599
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.840
thirteen, which made a major impact
on him. He moved to Hollywood after

600
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:13.280
college and starts his own nursing agency
specializing in HIV AIDS treatment, and then

601
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:19.360
eventually sells that business and segues into
entertainment as a casting director. Amber.

602
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:23.639
You would be surprised to know what
two of his first projects are, probably

603
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:29.119
because the first thing I know of
his Monsters Ball. Long before that,

604
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:34.519
he's working on Purple Rain and Under
the Cherry Moon with what Yes, Oh

605
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.800
my gosh, that's awesome. Yeah, And as you said, he eventually

606
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:44.760
does become a talent manager. His
debut production with Lee Daniels Entertainment was,

607
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:49.480
in fact, two thousand and one's
Monsters Ball. So let's talk a little

608
00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.559
bit about his filmography. I'm going
to tell you right off the bat,

609
00:48:52.760 --> 00:49:00.039
the paper Boy was the first film
I've ever seen of Lee Daniels, and

610
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.559
now that I'm looking at this resume, I cannot wait to dive in.

611
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:09.960
Starting with his directory debut in two
thousand and five shadow Boxer. Did you

612
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.519
see this one? No, I
hadn't even heard about it, but uh,

613
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:19.159
I'm loving that Helen Mirren's in it. Yeah, listen listeners if you

614
00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:23.960
haven't seen shadow Boxer. When an
assassin is diagnosed with terminal cancer, she

615
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:30.519
decides to carry out one final killing, assisted by her lover and step son,

616
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.280
Mikey. And this is starring the
incredible seeing a comma there like is

617
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:42.679
her lover her steps? I don't
know, because I'm now I'm up for

618
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:45.960
anything after this. Yeah, I
am too. Dame Helen Mirren in the

619
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:52.760
in the signature role Kouba Gooding Junior, but that's a Ferlito Macy Gray.

620
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:55.400
This is the first time he's working
with Macy Gray. So we again,

621
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:59.320
we got to see it just because
we want more Macy Gray. We got

622
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.880
the first time working with Monique.
Joseph Gordon Levitt is in this one.

623
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:07.440
Stephen Dorf. I don't know where
I was in two thousand and five and

624
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:09.360
how I missed it, but we
gotta see shadow Boxer. Yeah, just

625
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:14.719
got it now. His claim to
fame, what put him on the map

626
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:17.960
was was two thousand and nine is
precious. I know this one when I

627
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.840
know it's nominated for I want to
say, like four Academy Awards. It

628
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:25.119
wins two of them. I know, Monique wins Best Supporting Actress and it

629
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:30.719
also wins for Best Screenplay. Did
you see Precious? I did. It's

630
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:35.840
rough, like, not in the
same way that this one is reve Yeah,

631
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:39.599
but it's very real. It's very
gritty, and the abuse that this

632
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:47.360
child suffers is just it's rough to
watch, but it is worth watching.

633
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:51.559
Like I got done with this one
with The Paperboy, and I was like,

634
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:57.079
f this movie. But you know
when you get done watching Precious,

635
00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.639
you kind of feel like you grow
having watched it. Okay, I'm I'm

636
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:06.440
lining myself up a Lee Daniels Weekend
because there's there's so many well he's got

637
00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:12.360
such a small filmography mm hmm,
but it's it's just it's impactful. So

638
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:16.039
twenty twelve, we've been talking about
The paper Boy. A year later,

639
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:22.920
he does a film called The Butler. What about this one? Amber?

640
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:30.039
I liked it? I liked I
felt like too much hinged on the gimmick

641
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:35.440
of who's going to play the President
and the first Lady and that kind of

642
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:43.280
thing, because really the story is
about you know Forrest Wicker's character and his

643
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:50.440
family and what goes on in their
house. Okay, I liked it.

644
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:52.199
I liked it. I want I
want to see it. And I'm quickly

645
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:54.960
I'm picking up on the fact that
that Daniels is one of these directors,

646
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:59.559
that that he gets a certain group
of actors together and wants to keep working

647
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:01.000
with them. Yes, because I
see, I see the Butler. I'm

648
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:07.280
looking at He's back with John Cusack. He is, He's working with Alex

649
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:13.360
Pettifer, who he tried to get
for The paper Boy. He's got Mrai

650
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:15.599
Carey's in this. I know she
did. I know she did a song

651
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:19.039
for The paper Boy, which you
don't hear in the messages. Oh she

652
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:22.119
was imprecious. Okay, so,
and she's really good in it. Yeah,

653
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:28.559
and then David l Oloo is also
here. I don't know. I'm

654
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.719
putting The Butler on my list.
Yeah, listeners, listeners, I want

655
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:34.440
to I want to hear what you
guys think about the Butler and and how

656
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.440
good this one is, because it
looks it looks really good. After twenty

657
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:40.079
thirteen, he does he spends a
couple of years, he's doing some some

658
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:45.039
TV directing, does a TV movie, and then comes back in twenty twenty

659
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:52.960
one with the film The United States
Versus Billie Holliday. Not really familiar with

660
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:54.159
a lot of the cast in this
one I saw, I mean, aside

661
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:58.760
from from Garrett Headlin and Natasha Leone. I don't know your thoughts on this

662
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.320
one. Did you see this one? Do you want to see this one?

663
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:04.800
I haven't, but I mean,
who doesn't love Billy Holliday? So

664
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.480
yeah, fantastic, fantastic singer.
Yeah, and it's streaming on Hulu.

665
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:13.000
So oh it is all right.
No reasons, not the chair reason not

666
00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:16.960
to dive right in. I know
a lot about Billy Holiday, so you

667
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:21.039
know, I think you know again, it's an opportunity to learn something.

668
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:28.559
I'm going to give you an opportunity
to learn something. Amber he has got

669
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:35.360
two projects coming out soon, and
I'm highly excited about both of them.

670
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.679
Shall I shall it? Shall I
share it? Share them with you?

671
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:42.880
Yes? I have no idea.
So first up, the Deliverance is in

672
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:50.800
post production, starring Omar Epps Glenn
Close. He's back with Monique and Caleb

673
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:55.159
McLaughlin, who we love as he
plays Lucas on Stranger Things. Oh,

674
00:53:55.199 --> 00:54:00.199
I don't watch Strange You don't watch
Stranger Things? You okay, all right,

675
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:04.960
Well the first season, The Upside
Down freaked me out, and I

676
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:07.199
haven't watched any others. Oh you're
missing out. Uh well, I know

677
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:10.079
a lot of I know a lot
of our listeners watch Stranger Things, So

678
00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:15.199
uh you can. You can catch
Caleb McLoughlin in the next Lee Daniel's movie,

679
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:19.000
this one Amber, Let me,
let me, let me just tell

680
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.320
you what The Deliverance is all about. A family living in a home in

681
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:30.400
Indiana discover strange, demonic occurrences that
convinced them and the community that the house

682
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:37.840
is a portal to hell. Sold
Ah. And if you think you're sold

683
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:42.760
on that one, wait till I
tell you what is next after that?

684
00:54:43.159 --> 00:54:47.239
Oh boy, he in fact is
doing a remake of Terms of Endearment,

685
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:54.239
and Oprah Winfrey is in the starring
role of Aurora Greenway that Shirley McLean did.

686
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:59.920
Oh no, okay, not,
you're not You're not You're not feeling

687
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:01.719
went on. I hate that movie. You hate that movie. You hate

688
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:07.199
Terms of Endearment. I love Shehrilan
McClain, but that movie, to me,

689
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.719
is all about everyone in debor Winger's
life shitting on her and then she

690
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:19.119
does so. Honestly, no,
stop the I'm not looking at the clock.

691
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.280
But it had been several minutes since
you you made a controversial point.

692
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:29.880
There we go, Amber, Amber
Lewis is anti terms of endearment. I

693
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:32.320
love that movie. That's that's a
great movie. I like she Clain and

694
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:40.079
Jack Nicholson together. That's all right, Well, all right, let's wrap

695
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:45.119
up. Amber. Uh your thoughts
on the paper Boy. You did say

696
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:49.119
you recommend seeing this one. Well, here's the thing. I mean,

697
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:55.239
I have talked trash about it through
the whole episode, and it's definitely not

698
00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:59.519
one that I would tell people like, oh you should see this. I'm

699
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.800
never, ever, ever, ever, ever gonna watch it again. But

700
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:08.280
I think it is important that movies
like this exist. I love that it

701
00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:12.519
got made. I love that it
got made with a good cast. You

702
00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:15.639
know. I love Marvel movies.
I love Star Wars, I love all

703
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:22.039
those franchises. But these are the
movies that we've explored a lot of themes

704
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:25.440
and a lot of controversial topics,
you know, over this hour, And

705
00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:30.199
you know you don't get this watch
in Spider Man, you know, so

706
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:34.239
I think that to have a filmmaker
like Lee Daniels, I don't. I'm

707
00:56:34.239 --> 00:56:37.400
not in love with his filmography.
He's not one that I'm like, Oh,

708
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.719
he's making something, let's go watch
it. But I think it's important

709
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:46.480
that filmmakers like him get their projects
made because otherwise, you know, you're

710
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:50.320
just screaming into the void and it's
just the same thing over and over and

711
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:54.480
over again. I could not agree
more with you. I definitely recommend seeing

712
00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:00.519
this film. It's provocative and challenges
the viewer to face a myriad of uncomfortable

713
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:05.320
themes, and I, for one, this is not something I'm going to

714
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:09.559
own. It's not something I'm going
to revisit. Would you ever watch it

715
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:14.039
again? I would watch it again. But this is one of those movies

716
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:20.079
where I'm going to need a good
three to five years before I sit down

717
00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:23.400
and see it and end. And
it'll probably be because Zach Efron or Macy

718
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:30.199
Gray or lead someone does something incredible
in a movie coming you know later down

719
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:32.320
the road, and then I go, you know what, I remember that

720
00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:36.800
they were in that movie The Paper
Boy. I'm gonna go back and check

721
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:38.599
it out because I think I'm seeing
a little bit of what they did in

722
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:43.000
this movie and that you know it'd
be something like that. So that is

723
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:45.719
how I'm gonna come back to it. For those of you that want to

724
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:49.239
catch it, as we said at
the top of the hour, it is

725
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.679
currently streaming on Hulu, Peacock,
and the Roku channel. We want to

726
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.679
know, like, what did you
think of Lee Daniel's The paper Boy?

727
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:00.880
You can't tell us on social media. You can find us on Facebook,

728
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:06.519
Instagram, and Twitter. Check out
www dot a film by podcast dot com

729
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:09.840
for film and TV articles and our
entire library, which is streaming free.

730
00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:15.079
Write to us at a film by
Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions,

731
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:20.239
comments and concerns. We may just
read your response on the show and

732
00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:22.800
send you some a film by swag. I think that's going to do it

733
00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:30.079
for us. Amber always a pleasure
debating film with you. Thank you so

734
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:32.000
much. It's easy to talk about
the ones that you love and you just

735
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:36.119
sit here for an hour ago and
that was awesome. No, this is

736
00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:40.519
a nice challenge. I love a
good challenge, which is why I love

737
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:46.679
when you're on the show talking with
me. For those of you wanting a

738
00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:53.320
less controversial episode, join us tomorrow
for our Star Trek theme series Phasers Set

739
00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:59.719
to Stun, Wayne, David and
Scott are continuing their conversation about Star Trek

740
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:06.239
generation with their top ten can't miss
episodes of season three. Then, on

741
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:10.320
Flashback Friday, are limited series A
Film at forty five returns to celebrate the

742
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:17.159
forty fifth anniversary of a cult classic, talking about rock and roll High School

743
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:22.320
and next time on a Film Buy
Andrew Blakeley and I will argue the wrongs

744
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:30.480
and in my opinion, mostly rites
of digilantheism and the loopholes of the justice

745
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:36.639
system when we talk about a film
by f. Gary Gray, his two

746
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:44.280
thousand and nine thriller Law Abiding Citizen
Amber. Thank you and to all of

747
00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:51.039
you out there, thanks for listening.