Martin Campbell - Vertical Limit

0:00 This episode of a Film Buy is brought to you by black Key Cooffee. Head over to black Keycoffee dot Com and get your favorite flavor this winter, I've been warming up with the Guatemala Espresso. Not sure what you want, then build your own sample pack and try several Black Key coffee. With enough coffee, anything is possible. Do you know where you are at twenty four thousand? You're at the vertical limit. You're already dying. We're talking about a film by Martin Campbell from the year two thousand, his mountain rescue thriller Vertical Limit is up. Next, Welcome back to a film by a podcast.

1:03 I'm Jeff Johnson, and I cannot think of two more qualified guys to recruit for a daring rescue mission. Today. I'm joined by Andrew Blake Lee. Hello, Andrew, Hello, and returning to the show our friend Warner Brothers animation director Andy tom Andy. Always great to have you back, man, Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, we you and I we we had some great conversations last year on our nineteen seventy six series. We did See, We did Rocky, we did Assault on pre Sinct thirteen, and then we finished up with taxi driver if I recall that's right, Yeah, good, it's it's I'm honestly, it's it's a it's gonna be fun today to have you outside the seventies. You know, see what you think about that? I hate venturing outside the seventies, But I all right, well I'm glad. I'm glad you're gonna do it today for us. So today's movie Vertical Limit. Feeling responsible for his father's death, which occurred during a climbing expedition, Peter Garrett has quit the pursuit in favor of photography, while his sister Annie has become a top climber. After Annie is hired by wealthy businessman Elliot Vaughan to lead a trek up K two, an avalanche causes the crew to become trapped. Facing his fears, Peter assembles a rescue team, including experienced climber Montgomery Rick, to save them. So right off the bat, I dig the fact this is actually written as a sequel to nineteen

2:38 ninety three's Cliffhanger. I believe that actually, like you get a lot of Cliffhanger vibes from it. The dangling from a rope, the tension, the over the top, climbing silliness, but like in a tense way, it makes perfect sense. You mean the characters too, The characters are so yeah, so apparently this should have been a Stallone's Gabe lead the expedition, but uh, you know when when it didn't, you know, when it all kind of fell through, they kind of retrofited, and now it's a brother and sister team instead of who was it, uh Stallone and and uh Rooker. You know now now it's now it's a Peter and Annie Garrett brother and sister played by Chris O'Donnell and and uh Robin Tunney. The irony here is that this summer Stallone is in fact shooting Cliffhanger too, but like over in Germany. So interesting, look like that was a move. There was a Cliffhanger too. There's gonna be h it's it's it's he's he's filming it this summer. He's filming it. Yeah, yeah, yeah while they were making this movie. Okay, I was just over here googling Cliffhanger too, Like, wait a minute, did I miss something? I didn't know there was cliff It's happening, you know, hey, listen at seventy seven years old, Sly is still young enough to uh climb mountains at a tank tops And I dig that. Man. I told I'm all in for it. Can't wait if you say so or something. Yeah, hey I will. I

4:09 will absolutely go for an over the top sequel, you know, bring bring Lincoln Hawk back any day. I'm I'm all for it. Hawks Yeah, oh another Nighthawks, Yeah, call it Billy d He's we could get him. So, you know we're talking about Cliffhanger. You know, we got we gotta think when this movie comes out, we're like seven years removed from what has to be one of the most gripping, intense openings to an action movie ever, when stallone he drops the girl. You know, none of us saw that coming, and it was just like holy shit, Like this is this is not gonna be a typical, you know, action flip where the hero saves the girl. And I think that's relevant because this movie opens up in Utah. You know, you got a father and his two kids.

4:55 They're climbing, and at three minutes and fifty two seconds in we get a heart pounding, grip your seat type of scene. I mean, is it too early to talk about pivotal moments, because I've seen this movie dozens of times and I still like, I feel my heart my throat every time I watch this opening scene. What do you guys think, Yeah, it's definitely not too early to talk about it, because I feel like it sets the pace for the whole movie. It's, you know, it's it's got the the high flying action, that sort of thing. But also, you know, the theme of the whole movie is you know, death and sacrifice and risk, and you can't talk about the rest of the movie without that scene. It's one of those things that I feel like, you know, I think Cliffhanger is the more iconic, you know, hanging from the the you know, heights scene, but it's almost a cliche because it's so tense.

5:45 Okay, And what you just said there really sums up my whole opinion because I have to admit to you guys, I had never even seen this movie. I'd never even heard of it. It was funny when Jeff mentioned it. Have you so going into it? I didn't. I think I'm not saying you're tainted by nostalgia, but I'm assuming you both have these this fondness for it, so I went in with a blank slate, which I think is good. I wanted to get fresh eyes. And when I saw those three on the mountain in the opening scene, ah, I was looking at Crystal Donald. I'm like, all right, he's safe. The girl. They seem to have a nice rapport that. I'm like, the dad's dying, he's he's done. So there was no tension. I didn't feel any tension. I'm like, My only tension was how's he gonna die?

6:32 Because he's above them on the rope. I mean, I'm assuming he's gonna flip around, And when it happened, I'm like, okay, there it is so as far as heart palpitating, I was more like, oh, so that's how they're gonna do and whack them anyways. Look, and I'm gonna try really hard not to be this dark cloud. You guys. I swear to God, I'm not gonna crap on this. But I didn't. I guess there could have been tension if I if I would have just shut off my brain and thought, oh, they all could die, But I knew they weren't gonna okay, especially to the actor, I'm like, I don't know who he is he's dead. He should have just been wearing a Star Trek red shirt. Bro I knew he wasn't gonna make it. I'm like, all right, it's no. I'm glad you said that, because I, you know, rewatching this movie. I watched it a bunch when it came out. It came out when I was twelve, so it was definitely the sweet spot for me. But I think this, this movie falls under the the same banner as like Armageddon or that's another good example, the rock and that the movies that like they're over the top, they're silly, there's cliches, but I just I love I love it anyway because you go into it with that expectation. I'm looking for Kane. I'm not looking at something profound, you know, And I trust me. I love a good popcorn. I don't want to. I don't want to come off like that.

8:00 It's yeah, I know, I hear you. Well listen, So you guys, you guys have a unique position that I don't have when I look at this role because or I look at this scene because when I watched the scene, still you know, I have a younger sister, and I couldn't imagine being in Chris O'donnald's position where my dad is screaming at me to cut the rope to save her, which ultimately kills her. But you guys, you guys are fathers, like, so you know you're looking at you got to be looking at it from a position of save my children. And could you imagine having that kind of conversation though, with with any family member. I love I love the moment because it's as chaotic as that dialogue is.

8:41 That's all improv Martin Campbell tells these three, here's the situation. React So I got to give him credit for how believable the father's reaction is and how he's screaming at his son to I mean, he's almost threatening him, like you're going to kill your sister if you don't do what I say, and she's screaming, don't do this, don't, don't. I did think that was really it was gut wrenching because she's yelling don't do it, he's yelling do it. And they actually run both sides and both of so that was a really nice moment. No, trust me, that did evoke some emotion. Yelling to cut, she's yelling, don't cut he's he's like, what do I do? It was and it was really nice. How it was really nice? How you know they cut well, they cut away and then you just see him come into the shot and land on the ground.

9:26 Now, the director in me, because I was watching with my son, he had never seen it, he said, oh, it looked like he just fell like five feet. I thought that, yeah, but here's as a director, you know, I hear that, and I'm like, you know, how they could have fixed that. You could have had like either a you know, a ruffling sound like off screen just get louder, louder louder and then yeah and then hit. You know, so you hear it off screen before he actually comes into the shot because you know, sound until he lands and it's like, yeah, he sound like you know, even I don't know about a scream, but something, you know. Yeah, yeah, anyway, I still remember seeing this in the theater and that that cut where it's kind of it's everything's really quiet for a second. It's really, you know, really scenic. I still remember thinking, well, you're not gonna fool me again, like with Cliffhanger, and this time we're gonna see some feet land and like it's gonna be like a woe moment, like we that was close, but we're okay, guys, and then you see his body just impact. It's like brutal. Yeah, let's I want to talk about this cast though, so we go. We know we mentioned Chris O'Donnell and Robin Tunny. They're playing Peter and Andy Garrett. I feel like there's good chemistry with them, Like I believe them as siblings throughout the movie.

10:37 How about what do you guys think? Yeah, I mean obviously there's there's the emotional tension of what not. But I think, uh, for such a action based movie, I think especially o'donald carried more emotional weight than I think I would have expected from him. You know, he's not I've never known him to be the the Oscar winning actor carrying all these emotional scenes. But for for the action movie genre, I think he was perfect for it. It is nice and you know, I'm not gonna try and jump ahead to the end, but when he's standing over and then the other and I are thin gonna kiss because it was really I mean, like everything in this movie, it's turned up to eleven. So yeah, but they did.

11:18 I do like Chris A. Donald, and I was wondering what happened, Like, this guy's a good actor, he's got good acting chops and her. I looked her up too, just to you know, cursery, and I'm sure you have more information, Jeff, but I thought she was great too. You know. Yeah, this I feel like this is a situation where we're talking about two actors right now that I don't understand why they're not bigger. Because with o'donald, he he played the young heart throb. You know, we saw him in school ties, we saw him in what was his sense of a woman, you know, and then he becomes like the action he gets the action hero kick with you know, because Robin and Schumacher's to Batman films. And then after that, you know, he does Vertical Limit. This is kind of I feel like Vertical Limit was where he's kind of cementing himself like I can carry an action film, and then something changes and he you know, I think he's, uh, he's on TV.

12:03 You know, he ended up on doing like one of the the n c I s is or you know, yeah, he's on the Okay, yeah, so I mean, you know, not a bad gig, but at the same time, like I kind of feel like, you know, what happened to o'donald, the the action star, what happened to o'donald like the leading man, And the same thing. The same could be said for Robin Tunny because she, you know, I remember she kind of broke out with the craft, you know, she had that she had that small role in you know, the Empire Records, is what I want to say. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they both kind of fell into the same category in that they had this like really young, youthful presence, this like kind of sweet innocent energy, you know, even in this and as you start to age, that goes away. And I think that that was their that was their appeal and their charm, you know. Even see Chris O. Donald, I was kind of googling around seeing what other hit work he's done. I saw clips from him on n C I S.

12:56 And he doesn't have the same charisma as he's you know, in his forties now as he did when he was in his twenties, just because that was the the energy he projected was like young and almost naive and can't do that when you're forty five. Yeah, I think I think a guy like speaking to that, I think a guy kind of worked it out, yeah, where he had that charm, youthful charm, and then his later rolls he's stipped, not his youthful charm. Now, any no, any I like that because when now that I'm thinking about, think of Matt Damon's career and Chris o'donald's career. Chris o'donald was it seems like he was on the Matt Damon plan. He did the you know, the youthful heart throb young guy movie. Then he becomes the action star, he becomes Jason Bourne. But then he turns it on and he he's a serious dramatic actor. And I don't know how donald, I don't know what well, I don't know how McDonald like kind of took a different step. It might have just been that Batman anchor around his neck, you know people good point. Yeah, the good Batman's so exactly h holy rested bet On Batman, an actor that I cannot get enough of, and it still breaks my heart that he's no longer with us. Bill Paxton playing billionaire Elliot Vaughan. The role The role was based on Richard Branson and when you watch it, you could totally see it.

14:22 How how does Paxton do it? He he's the villain. He you know, you could say you could make an argument that the mountain that that K two is the villain, is the monster that they're they're fighting. But Bill Paxton's character, he is the bad guy and yet with his charisma, like I'm I like him? Am I wrong? Like Andrew? I know you and I go back and forth on on the gray areas of the of the villain? But you know, what do you what do you think about Paxton in this one? His performance is fantastic. He's Bill Paxton. He's he's so charming, and I think that that plays into the like scummy billionaire well because you know, if you want an evil rich guy, they know how to be likable. That's what they do. So I think he was perfect for it, especially because you know, mentioning the gray area, the things he's doing, the way he's going about them are scummy and self serving, but like it's enough of a there's enough of a rationale to it that you kind of see his point. Yeah, but he's also able to portray that it is very selfish what he's doing, Like you know there could be some logic behind it, but he's doing it because it's selfish. And I think that that subtlety makes the character go from like kind of you know, understandable to full on villain. Yeah. I knew. I knew right away.

15:37 Even the way it was shot and the way he Paxton came on the screen, I was like, Okay, he's the villain, like immediately, you know, the way he's presented and the way you know, because I know, I was like, they need an antagonist. Where is he? Oh? There he is. It's Bill passion. And when he came out and like you were saying his I think his character. The way they he got worse and were shoot Knox just killing people. It was great. I loved it. I loved the because at first I'm like, oh, he's so charming, he's such a great guy. And then you know, I think we should keep going, you know who we got to turn back, Let's keep going, and then he just gets more and more you know, over the top. Yeah, and Bill Packston he's always great. I mean, you just can't. I think his death was such a sad, sad thing. I remember, I forget it, and you know, he's one of those guys that you you don't realize the huge loss to the entertainment industry until it happens. You know. Oh he was in oh no everything, It's sad. He was, Yeah, and I hear this, yeah, this this this last rewatch that that you know, and he does this in so many of his movies. But you know when he when he greets the crowd at base camp, you know, he grabs the micay is this thing on? He does that that Bill Paxton grin like I smiled, Yeah, I smiled, And then it just I just felt my heart break and I was like, We're never going to get this again. Like this uh kills me. Going back to you know, the him in this movie though, I think this is a Campbell, in my opinion, is best known for Bond, Like that's what I always think of because GoldenEye was like my first

17:12 experience with James Bond, like as a kid, that was the first one I saw in theaters. Yeah, and then obviously Cassino Royal I think was it was a great turn and both times you get a villain, right, you get a good arch Nemesis style villain. And I think that he did so well in those because he understands how to make a villain. So I think that's why this comes through. And like you said, even when Paxton comes on the screen and he hasn't done anything wrong yet, the way he's framed, you're like, oh, this is the guy, right, you can just kind of feel it. And that's what a good action movie needs. It doesn't need that much nuance. It just it can tell you this is the guy that's gonna screw everything up. Yeah. Well, you know, to your point, like we're talking about the you know, their father played by Stuart Wilson. He's worked with Martin Campbell several times. You know he's Yeah, I remember he's the villain in Zoro and he's you know, like, Okay, this is a bad guy. You know, he's he's the bad guy, but you know he's he's still there's some charm to him where you're he's not just out and out evil, right. Yeah, yeah, And that's obviously. I don't mind a good cliche villain that's over the top in certain things, but the best ones, you know, they're likable.

18:19 Yeah, you're right. Let's uh, let's talk about Scott Glenn. He plays he's always playing BADASSU here he's Montgomery Wick, who has uh he's just got this really kick ass origin story. I love when uh, I think it's Skip is talking to Peter about Montgomery Wick and what he's up there on the mountain doing. It's just like it's this part is like peak Scott Glenn in that he's like the old Wise, like he's a badass and everywhere. It's like such a cliche, but I feel like Scott Glenn is built for those ords. Like I'm picturing him is like Stick and Daredevil. Yeah, it's like the same thing. Like he's he's hard and he's bad ass and he know only he can do it. And it's so it's so cliche, but in like such an endearing way. Wait, he was sticking.

19:07 He was sticking Daredevil. Yeah right, yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, No, he is ultimate badass. And you know what, like I get, I get these cringe moments like when when you were saying when Paxston grabs the mic and he's stuck in and then Scott Glenn pipes up says something ominous. You know, yeah, every quiet, everybody's quiet, you know, And it was that it was just this peak of corniness. But I love it. I love Scott Glenn. I get that dude. He just like, this is my character right now, and I loved it. Look but it was just fringy corny at part two. You know, Oh yeah, good, that's what a good action film does. I get it as sot of action film. But yeah, that was kind of well, I don't want to want to keep jump ahead, but yeah, uh we got a little bit of a We got some lucasfilm players leading the Pakistani army and these uh these supporting roles. So we got Tamara Morrison as Major russoul I was. And again, it's when you haven't watched this movie for for years and years and then you see someone You're like, oh wait, it's Boba fet Yeah, I love that. And then you know Rashan Seth who plays Colonel Salim, you know, Boba Fett is reporting to chatter Law from the Temple of Doom. Like I'm loving, you know, like the kid, and he's like, hey, yeah, that's that one guy.

20:30 I couldn't because then when you watch it on Prime, you can pause and see his other films and I'm like, I know that guy, and I pause and I'm like, no, that's not what I remember him from. So it was it was uh Raiders huh uh yeah, uh yeah, Temple of Doom. Yeah yeah, Okay. I will say though, like watching it this time and seeing Tom where I was like, you know, he's he's not Pakistani, he's Maudy, Like that's yeah, I mean, I guess it's you know, the nineties, and there's like we just need a not white guy to do this, but exactly a little it's a little off. It's a little off. I'll tell you what's on though, Andrew. You mentioned GoldenEye, So we've got we got bond girl Isabella Scorupko in this as Monique tell Ye Italia. Yeah, after Golden Eye. So she took some time, she took like five years off. She know, she gets married, she's she's starting a family. Uh and then she's back in vertical limit. You know, Eddie, you're talking about some some cliche moments, a little little cheesy, but you know, smoking smoking a cigarette next to nitrig glyceran. You know, we get it. You gotta you gotta make a statement that you're tough but bright had skull and crossbow on those things.

21:42 You know, she she look, she was fine, she did her job. But I don't know if they needed that character in that movie. She really didn't add much to the whole thing. Like I don't think Christal Donald needed a love interest, did he? But I know because it was it was, it was it was under the surface. Like she's she's you know, you watch this movie several times she's she's putting eyes on him, he's putting eyes on her. It's yeah, yeah, I feel like the first draft they ended up like together, and then they kind of just maybe they're like they don't have the chemistry we're looking for. Let's kind of rewrite this a little bit. Well, you know, and you got you got. Bill Paxton's partner, he's, you know, no one wants to go on this rescue mission until he's like, hey, I'll write a check for half a million dollars. Anyone wants to go, and O'donald's like, I need six people. And then she's just hanging out in the chot She's like, I'm going I need the money. I'm like that, we're good. We got six. I'll tell you, Having watched this so many years ago and it has been a while, I was convinced it was Charlie's theron in my head. Oh wow, okay, like that's I was. So when she came on screen, I was like, wait, no, nope, that's not right. Who is this? So the is the movie better with Shirley's thereon? I mean, I think she makes everything better. I don't think that she did a bad job in this, but I don't think she did anything memorable either. She was just kind of there. Yeah. The scene that stands out in my head is him resetting her finger. But that's not because of her. That's because I'm imagining somebody resetting my finger, not because of some amazing performance or anything. Here's the surprise for me though, And if you haven't watched this in a long time, I went, oh my

23:17 god, is that that is him? Ben Mendelssohn. Yep, is in this is he's playing one of the crazy brothers. He plays Malcolm. I'm watching this and I'm halfway film like, man, he looks so familiar, he sounds so familiar, And then it clicks in my head. I'm looking at like a thirty year old Ben Mendelssohn, and it blew my mind. I feel like he really lands with like Rogue one and then Ready Player one and his HBO series. You know, he's on He's in What Secret Invasion and he's he's just like, he's a late forties, early fifties guy, you know, and he's he's an incredible actor. I love him. And then you see him as the younger version of him, who's just completely a loose cannon in this film. But you know, we need that, we need a little bit of we need a little bit of comedic levity, and you know, he brings it. I love him in this. Yeah, he's the and I'm sorry, in Rogue one, he's the uh, the imperial guy. Yeah, the villain. Yeah, okay, yeah, all right, yeah, I guess I guess you could you know, you could say Rogue one. He lands with Rogue one. But you gotta remember, like before that he has that smaller role in uh and Nolan's uh The Dark Knight Rises. Yeah, he's he was the one that foolishly kind of mouths off the bane. Yeah, gives gives him the opportunity to be super intimidating.

24:36 Yeah. He's got such a unique speech pattern that like the second he started talking, I was like, wait, hold on, hold, on, hold on, but I had the same thing common completely off guard. I picture him as this, you know, the middle aged like intimidating villain, and this he's kind of playing a young like almost care free at least at the beginning. Uh. Like it's just such such out of character. But I think he did such a good job. He is in this movie. Like he's especially his interest. You know, him and his brother. They're sitting there sunbathing nude on the mountain. You know, they're drinking and sunbathing. I mean, he's Polly Shore's roommate at this point. I just but, uh, you know, I think he's fantastic this. I absolutely love him. That's one thing I will say. As far as the other cliches in the movie, you know, having the more light hearted characters.

25:22 It also this movie shows why people are willing to risk their life to do these things, and it's very different, you know, whether they have some grudge from the past or whatever. And he and his brother weren't like that wasn't their thing. They just liked climbing. They were just out there having a good time. And I think, like I love you know, climbing documentaries like Free Solo or the alpinist touching the void, which this movie reminds me of a lot. And I think, you know, why these people are willing to do something that is so inherently dangerous is fascinating. So having these kind of characters that are just like no, I just like being out here, like I'll do it for the money. Sure, you know it. I think that was a nice addition. Agreed. Let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about the film's background and in our pivotal scene. Hey check it out. There's a brand new podcast on the way exploring the discographies of the Beatles and the Beach Boys.

26:18 It's called Apples and Oranges and and Lodges. On February seven, we will be matching albums against each other in a one v one format, discussing every single track and then giving our verdict on which album is better. Pet Sounds versus Revolving Sergeant Pepper versus Smile. Wouldn't it be nice if most people knew how well the Beach Boys actually held up against the Fab Four. Both bands inspired each other to keep pushing the boundaries of what was possible in pop music. Here, There and everywhere, and what we got were some of the greatest albums of all time. Awesommer Long versus A Hard Day's Night, Rivers sol versus the Beach Boys Today. So let's come together for some fun, fun fun and help me Ron to get this podcasts off the ground.

27:00 And will sure appreciate you being around. On February seventh, wherever you find your podcast, that's Apples and Oranges. February seven, we are back talking with Andrew and Andy about the Vertical Limit. So we kind of talked about how this movie starts. You know, it's a it's a cliffhanger sequel originally, but I think we'd be we'd be doing it injustice if we did not talk about David Tattersall for a second. He's the cinematographer, because say what you will, this is a gorgeous movie. Especially you know, you got to keep in mind they filmed this on location in Pakistan and in New Zealand.

27:48 Mount Cook in New Zealand was like the stand in for a lot of K two. But they're still in Pakistan shooting K two as well. And I love I love the cinematography. There's there's a little bit of green sc here and there. But it's very if you watch any if you've seen the documentary on this movie and how they made it, it's, ah, there's very there's a minimal surprisingly, there is a minimal amount of green screen and and uh set stuff. So yeah, it's I don't think you can have bad shots obviously, it's extremely well done. And the logistics of trying to shoot on a mountain, I don't even know where to start. But yeah, it's one of those places where it's like everywhere you look, it's just so stunning. Yeah, but when they were that chasm that they were trapped in all a set. That Okay, so that's a set. And uh, surprisingly, when you're inside the tents with exception to like the big like the base camp tent where they got all the computers, so that's on location.

28:48 Uh everything else, like when you're inside like their little tents, they film that in like a garage somewhere. So which is which is weird? Like you know, because the crazy thing about this is these actors. You know, first off, they cast trains for four weeks to become climbers. Then they report, you know, they get on location, they have to do more training to learn how to ice climb, you know, the the ice shelves. So they put them through training there and then they start shooting. And every morning starts with a helicopter ride. They go up like a thousand or ten you know, anywhere from like one to ten thousand feet, they said to you know, depending on where they're gonna shoot. That's that's that's the daily life for the actors in this, like get into a helicopter climb, you know, flying up and then shooting and then it's like hey, weather's coming in, we're out of here, or hey we got we got good weather. Let's let's keep going. That blows my mind. And when you watch, like again, when you watch, there's some great behind the scenes stuff on the on the on the on the Blu Ray for this, where you're like, I can't believe, Like how crazy is Martin Campbell to helicopter in his equipment and his crew and you know, scaffolding and everything on the mountain And when you see it, like you got to keep in mind too, a lot of these actors are doing most of their own stunts.

30:03 So like that's that great shot of Robin Tunny where she's kind of shimmying from one mountain to the other. You know, she's doing like the cliffhanger move. Yeah she is. You know, she's a couple of thousand feet up and she did that seventeen times to get the take that he wanted. You know, now they've got and they've got trained professionals, you know, they've got everyone in place to you know, give the actors what they need. But even O'donald's like, all I can do is not look down. And there he's saying this as he's again several thousand feet and they've got him on a you know, hanging off the side of one of the mountains and you know where he's gonna do a quick descent. So it blows my mind that they they're in the they're they're really doing it. You know. You know what's incredible that is that they're acting on top of that because it was It's ironic because literally, like three days ago, I was listening to a podcast. It was a martial art guy. But he to Everest, he didn't make it. He went up to certain some base camp, but and he likened climbing to you know, jiu jitsu and stuff where when you're doing it. You can only think about what you're doing, so you're right in the moment and you can't get out of the moment. Just like when you're doing jiu jitsu, you're not thinking about paying your bills or because this guy's gonna choke you, you know, So just like when you're climbing, you can't be thinking of you know, your family or anything. You're in that moment. So be doing those things and acting on top of it. You've got to get your mind off of what you're supposed to be doing. So I guess it's probably extra harrowing to do that got to be Yeah, yeah, I imagine, Yeah, cool thing here. That's That's one thing I

31:37 want to say, like this clim like, that's one of the big things that one of the stumbling blocks I had with to be like climbing, I can't even it's not even a world I want to do or even I did see Free Solo and great film, but it's just something that I'm like, I can't even put my sex in my life. It's not something I don't fault you people for doing it. It's them. But dude, just like like Sky Diamond, I saw, I was kind of I was already a step behind. You know, hey, every everyone's got their own version of crazy. I mean all three of us have frozen in a desert before for twenty four hours. You know, running running the world's tough, and so you know, everyone, how could you do that? Why would you put yourself through that? So I get what you're saying, but I also respect it, and I'm like, yeah, okay, that's that's your version.

32:27 You know that ain't mine, but it's it's yours. Yeah, I don't say to get it, but I'm way too scared of heights to try to do that. Yeah, I'll tell you, I'll tell you. I think what's cool here. You gotta keep in mind Scott Glenn he is, He's he's not the young pup like some of these other actors are. He goes to the same training and after training on the ice shelf, he is persistently telling Martin Campbell, you gotta you gotta put a shot at me doing this, and and you know, Campbell's like, if I if you'll shut up, I'll do it. So that that great moment where you see him with the ikes and the and the ice picks and he's he's going up, but he's like thirty forty feet up, he's climbing up. That is Scott Glenn doing it for real, you know on the Harnet. You know, no harm like he's got to say you know, he's got his cables because he knows how to do it at that point. But when they pull back and you see, like wow, that that's actually him. That's it's incredible that these the you know, these guys uh took that on and you know it to your point of yeah, like I couldn't imagine like, Okay, we're gonna film this, and you know it's one thing to do it, but to do it in character and you know, have a bunch of people staring at you and do it like that more intense or try to you know, I don't know how to do it. I really don't this uh, this movie. You cannot take a breath without another intense moment or an action packed sequence. Something's happening. If it's not an avalanche or issues with the Knight, the nitroglycerin almost ready to explode any given moment. There's so much that you gotta you gotta, you gotta ask yourself like, well, what what

33:57 is the pivotal scene. Is there moment of this where you're like, you know what this this makes the movie? This is this is what the movie is about, without giant explosions and avalanches anything for you. Yeah, I'll tell you what. To be honest, I was eye rolling a lot of the movie. You know, there was a lot where I'm like, this is fun. You know, I know, I know it's an action film. But when I was this one moment, I go all right, now I'm in, like this is great. When you find out that Scott Glenn, you know, Bill Patson's character, had killed his wife and he's like this, that's intense, man. I thought that I'm in, like, I'm one hundred percent in now. I want to see he's going there with the sole purpose to end this guy's life, and that that was awesome.

34:37 So yeah, I was totally right there. That was the moment I felt It's different now, the whole It changed the whole kind of what's gonna happen now that at that moment, I was like, wait, is he going to kill him? Is he gonna just end his But I pretty much knew who was gonna die, Like I'm like Scot Glenn's not gonna make it. I said, these two stoner guys. I really thought the one stoner guy was going to die and then his brother was going to die to sue something I knew. I knew. Donald. All right, Sorry, I don't want to go off. That's my pivotal moment. Is that's your pivotal moment? How about? How about? How about it? Andrew? Well, I want to ask real quick first. Andy. You know, obviously I get your pick in this movie. It is a very silly movie at times, But do you think it would have changed it for you if they had had that scene earlier? So that was more of a driving force plot wise, as opposed to like a turn it did? It did? No, I don't know if it would have held. I just thought it did take.

35:31 It did come late in the movie where I was like, now I'm really excited, and I don't know if you could shoehorn it in because then it maybe maybe, you know, like when he's praying. I don't know, because it was because it's one of those things where oh, you find out and you look back and the way he acted earlier towards him, like when he first introduced, when he was giving the speech, in the beginning, I'm like, oh, so that's why he did so no, I I don't think they should have had it earlier, but it did really Yeah, and so that that leads into my pivotal scene, which is, you know, I'd be silly to say spoiler at this point, but it is the the the climax when they're they're there on the rope, because I think it's, uh, it's a good moment for everybody. It's a wrap up for you know, Chris O'donald's character having to go through this again for yeah.

36:23 Yeah, so I went on a wicker hanging there beneath him. Uh it, you know, it's Wick gets to get his revenge while also doing the thing he's been you know, telling Chris like your your father was a good climber. He would have you know, if he had the knife, he would have done it. And so it's all of those things coming together and I think, you know, again, I'm not a climber. I don't ever intend on being one. But a phenomenal documentary on a climbing story called Touching the Void came out a few years after this. But it's a story that happened in the eighties where there were two climbers on a mountain they started to fall. One went over the ledge and the other one did have to end up cutting him looser he was gonna fall too. Now it's an amazing documentary. It's essentially if you've ever seen the TV show I Shouldn't Be Alive, this documentary is sort of what that show that the style is based on. So the sort of reenactment and also interview with the survivors, because in that story both of them lived. The guy fell into a chasm and survived, crawled his way out, while his friend was left believing I just killed him. It's an extremely emotional true story, and I think that because I've seen that, because I knew that story, it adds so much weight to this moment here as well. But again from a narrative standpoint, it also resolves all their characters in a really cool, tense way. So that scene, the whole movie's building up to that scene. As far as I'm concerned, I agree. I'll tell you the pivotal one for me probably has to be the conversation, the walkie talkie conversation at night between Peter and Annie,

37:55 where she's basically saying, don't come for me. It's going to be too late. And in that moment, they get to finally resolve their their issues about you know, they get to talk about their grief with their dad and they get they get a nice moment and it's you know, you're like, okay, this is her saying goodbye. And then the next morning he's already you know, Wick wakes up, O'donald's already up there, and he's he's in full hero mode, you know, double time in it to get to her. I think that's a great moment. I love that moment. Well, it plays into themes of the whole movie, which is you know, sacrifice and risk and yeah, it makes it's what makes both of their characters the heroes while everybody else is somewhere in a gray area. And you say, yeah, he was obviously super determined because he didn't she say something there at that moment, like I only have an hour or he's like I'll be there. He says, no, I only haven't. Yeah. She's well, yeah, he's like how much how much time? And she's like an hour two to it most but they know it's like the next day, right, they shows up, Well, I it's it's kind of hard to tell time on the mountain because, like, you know, I get it, like the snow come, you know, the cloud cover hits, the you know, the snow hits, the you know, avalanches. Because in my brain, I was like, if we know that we're on a limit, a very limited time amount of time, I get it. You know, you're asking six people to scale K two, you know, like ten thousand feet of it. They're gonna need to take some breaks, and I get that, but like, are we are we do we need to hunker down for the night. So I don't know if it was like necessarily an

39:27 overnight thing or if it was just, hey, here's come, here comes the weather. We gotta take shelter until it passes. Maybe that's maybe that's what. Yeah, it was a weird, weird time jump, like because they were when the storm hits and it's you know it's coming. It was bright sky, you know, and then it's well, it's coming and it comes through and they fall, they fall down that chasm and then the Christ of Donald's at the base of the mountain. We got to go, let's let's go, let's get a team, and it's like well, wait, isn't this storm? How long is this storm supposed to last? It's just one of these twenty second storms. So I mean, I don't know, there were little jumps there. I'm assuming they got a wait, they can't go right now. Anyway, there's quite a few times where the timeline like they're trying to add this ticking clock element and the tension and it that combined with some of the editing choices make the timeline pretty much impossible to really nail down. So yeah, that whole I have an hour left, Like, I don't know, because I mean at that point, they'd also lied about her having a the edema early on, and then obviously she did get it.

40:30 It's it felt like one of those things that maybe was filmed one way and then edited differently. This there could be I think this could use a better edit for sure, you know, you know, even like the plan, like you know, I don't know about you guys, but like, logistically, why do we need to all take a different like face the shelf, like you know, like Scott Glenn's character, he's like, hey, I've done them all, so they're pretty much the same. You know, I don't know why they needed that nitro glystering. I can see one. But everybody you want a battle, here's the bottle everybody. Yeah, I guess you're assuming, like, Okay, we might not all make it, So let's let's have a tea each team maybe have one, maybe not.

41:15 You know, we're not passing them out like you know, we're cracking open a six pack. Yeah. I got to tell you you can't get in the sun Yeah, the the nitro turns into a grimlin like you you know, but in the sunlight they'll explode. I mean, I know you said you could tell who was gonna live or who was gonna die, But there's no way you could have told me you expected those two to die. Oh they're laughing. Oh yeah, moment is just so out of out of left field. I knew, no, I knew, I knew I could. I told you I picked out everybody, except like I said, I thought only one of the brothers is gonna die, and then possibly the other one would kind of come in and say, like, for instance, when when Boba Fett is dropping them off on the on the he can't go any high.

42:01 Yeah, and the last two getting off the thing is Crystal Donald's Scott Glenn. Yeah, that took so long. I'm like, dude, you're not gonna die. Let's just go. I want to. I'm like there, whoa, whoa, and they're hanging and this all this and the things, and the helicopter blades are going right by the girl's head. I'm like, it's not even gonna touch her. It's obviously so I felt no peril at whatsoever. I thought everyone's gonna live. That's a good point, like, should we have lost someone on on like just the helicopter, because that's it. That's a pretty intense moment. I would have been maybe maybe one of them doesn't make it. I would have better. I will tell you. I did think the helicopter itself was going to crash. I thought we were going to lose on that one. Not any of the climbers, but I thought the helicopter would go down. Yeah, he could have. He's expendable. Boba fet would have been expendable. But yeah, I think if if they would have, if that blade would have chopped that girl's head that I'm in because I didn't her, it didn't need her. You're maybe even a nitro gliss blows up and blows half the mountain. I don't know, but I'm just yeah, I would have shocked me and I would to get that that's really cool. But hey, I'm not I don't like just wanting violence for the sake of nothing, but that would Andy. Andy, you are the director in this group, and I'm with you, like, either either you get some cannon fodder, someone gets gets the helicopter blade, or someone misses the ledge and then there's an explosion that kind of rockets up to

43:32 him. That all right, yeah, that would have worked. But yeah, bulba fet he, I don't think that would affected the movie much. He could have died, he could have or even just Prissel Donald Scot Glenn dropped and then he just did tips over boom as blades catch the side of the mountain or something like that. Yeah. Well, guys, let's let's take one more break. When we come back, we'll talk about we'll talk about Martin Campbell a little bit about his filmography and uh and and what is that coming up next? All right, we are back. Let's uh, let's talk a little bit about Martin Campbell. You know, obviously I don't know if you guys know this originally He's from New Zealand. He moved to London and he got into the business by directing softcore sex comedies in the nineteen seventies. Think about that for a second. This is the guy that has given us some really good action adventure films. You know, he wasn't he wasn't long for that. He actually, you know, from there, he made a name for himself as a television action series director before he moved on to bigger and better things. Let's, uh, let's take a quick look at his filmography. I I know we won't cover everything. Let's uh, let's skip around a little bit and talk about a few of them. We gotta, we gotta talk a little bit. We got to talk about some of the hits. We definitely got to talk at least about one miss.

44:47 But let's start off with you know, nineteen ninety four again with Stuart Wilson. I think this is the first time he's doing he's working with Stuart Wilson. He does a film with ray Leiota called No Escape. I love this movie. Andy, have you seen this one? Got you got a soldier? Ralio to plays a soldier. You know, he's convicted for murdering someone in in his in his in his in his uh platoon, I think uh. And then his sentence. He's sent to a prison planet and there's two there's two camps of convicts that are kind of ruling the planet. So you know, you got Lance Hendrickson in it, you got Ernie Hudson. Really cool action movie. I think it's on too B right now. It's either to be or Pluto. I saw it recently. Am I seeing Kevin Dillon in that. Kevin Dillon's in it? Yep. It kind of feels like like Escape from New York or Escape from la if it was the movie like a B science fiction movie, like definitely fun. I wouldn't put it on the same level as Escape from New York. But no, but we're worth a watch. It is absolutely a fantastic movie. We actually when we talked about Martin Campbell, initially we were gonna do No Escape and then you know, I saw Vertical Limit again. I was like, you know what this is. It's a toss up, but I'm a little vertical Limit, so excellent choice. A year later, nineteen ninety five, he reinvigorates the Bond franchise with GoldenEye, which I can't talk about this one. I love GoldenEye.

46:16 It was, like I said, Pierce Brosnan was like my first theater going James Bond obviously, you know I love them all, but like Brosion's always gonna have a special place in my heart, and it's because of Golden Eye. Like I saw this one. It blew me away. I still think it's, you know, easily top top six or top seven James Bonds, okay, top six seven, huh yeah. I mean there's definitely better ones, but there's also a lot of worse ones. Eddie, your thoughts. You and I have never taught Bond your thoughts on GoldenEye. I'm very luke Warmore Bond. It's fine. I like it when I see it, I like it. I don't search it out many Bond films. And just to show my age against YouTube young guys, my parents took me to see Limit Let Die when it was in the theater. I remember going to see that and being scared to death of the voodoo guy. So I mean when when Roger Moore was like my first intro. Yeah, and Golden Eye, like I saw it, I just don't remember. I'm sure it's a great film i'd like to revisit. But it's it's just like it's just a genre.

47:20 I reached out. I see, I did, like what's his face is? His bonds were great? Daniel Craig Daniel. Yeah, well we'll talk about that here a little bit too. We will talk Yeah, we got we got another one to talk about here. So wait if I got asked though, because you know he's he's Roger Moore, I'm Brosen and you you came up in the Dalton there though, right, that's is that your spot? So I yeah, I grew up. Actually, my first bond my father took me, uh nineteen eighty five. He took me to see a View to a Kill, which it would have been it would have been more as last. But but truthfully, before that I was I was a Connery guy first and foremost. Because that was the first Bond film I ever saw was gold Goldfinger. My dad kept me inside one summer morning, said, hey, we're gonna watch this movie. I'm looking at him like this, this looks terrible. I don't know what this is, but I don't like it. It's some old movie. And then like ten minutes in I fell in love with it, I fell in love with Bond and you know, rest is history. But a couple of years before he does Vertical Limit, and a couple of years after he does Vertical Limit, he manages to give us not one but two Zoro films, talking about the Mask of Zoro in nineteen ninty eight and then The Legend of Zoro in two thousand and five.

48:35 I'm a big fan of the first one. I was definitely a little lukewarm on the second one. Yeah, did oh? I mean yeah, I love the first one. I watched it a bunch of times growing up, but yeah, the second one, I think I've maybe seen it once or twice. It's just I don't even really remember much about it, to be honest, Yeah I did. The first one was fantastic, I think, identical the same thing. I saw the first one. Kind of don't remember the second one, and I grew up that's one of my cats, believing. When I was a kid, I dressed is Zoro for Halloween. Uh yeah, I was a big Zoro and that there was even an animated Zoro cartoon made by Filmation, which was wonderful. It was like a lot of rotoscoping. But yeah, I was a big zor guy had a lunchbox too. Well, Andy, let's start over with Bond. I know, we we know how you feel about it. But two thousand and six, uh he he again, he relaunches the Bond franchise a second time with with Daniel Craig. He does Casino Real, which arguably might be maybe the best one of the best Bond films of all time. Yeah, I think it was great. I think is that is that the one with the train where it rips back and he jumps onto the train, he adjustice cuffs or something like that. It was like either way the beginning, the opening. Yeah, okay, so we're talking we're talking about we're talking about Skyfall with Andy with when he's on the train and does does that big move and then you know, kind of just himself. Also amazing, that's Sam Mendez and I mean, yeah, you know, I love him. But well, more

50:07 on that one we cover Sam do a Sam Mendez episode. But yeah, Casino Real. It's fantastic, it's got it's just it's a it's an excellent uh reintroduction to to the Bond character. I feel like here's where we got a misstep though. Twenty eleven, he he jumps into the superhero genre with with with Green Lantern, Ryan Reynolds and Green Lantern. Yeah, I mean yeah, I like the collective size I hear. I like he brought his you know, his his Keiwi friend on board. He's got Taika Way Td in it, and yeah, I mean same as Vertical Limit. He's bringing at least one fellow New Zealander on board with Tamara. But yeah, that's we don't need to talk about that one. I mean, I think that one's already been that one's been ripped apart by you know, many of people at this point, Andy, you know, your your thoughts as a director, like where where did we go wrong with this one? From what I remember, I saw it once, you know, back then, and that was it. I think it was just cliche. And I don't think Ryan Reynolds can he can grate on some people. Portrayal was you know, smarty maybe that's the word. I don't. And I think it was just one of those just hit all the beats that a superhero movie should hit. I remember my problem with it, and you know, I try not to fall to movie for this usually, but the CGI was absolutely terrible. I thought, and I hate I hated the fact that his his his costume was Cgi.

51:40 The whole thing was CGI. That graded on me from like the first the first Teaz trailer I saw for it, So yeah, I tried it. I you know, just I think it's one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen. Honestly, it's it's so bad. Yeah, yeah, you know, and you know, everyone a lot of people felt this way. You know, this kind of wreck that kind of took him off course for a while. You know, that was twenty eleven. He's only done a handful of things, a lot of TV, you know, several TV movies and some small budget stuff. But let's talk about what's next for him in production. Right now, he's got a movie called Cleaner, starring Daisy Ridley and Clive Owen. Listen to this. A group of activists ambush and energy companies annual meeting and take three hundred people hostage. I mean, it's it's action. It's Clive Owen's great, over the top action. I think Daisy Ridley, I'm excited to see her do non Star Wars stuff because I think she's fantastic and I just want to see her get away from that toxic fan base. Yeah, so I'm here for it. You know, I love I love when he does just a good straight up action movie. Obviously, you know the James Bond Vertical Limit. He did one recently with Liam Neeson that I mean, it wasn't a great movie, but the action was fun. So yeah, I'm here for it. Yeah, it sounds interesting.

52:58 I mean, I don't know, if it's a movie, I'd run to the theater to see. Yeah, Andy, I'll tell you what movie you I think his other one. I think you would run to the theater and see because it sounds like it. This sounds like a seventies movie. This sounds like a seventies genre movie if I've ever heard one. He's got one in post production called Dirty Angels starring Eva Green and Ruby Rose. Listen to the Listen to this synopsis. A group of female soldiers disguised themselves as medics to rescue a group of teenagers caught between Isis and the Taliban. Andy, I cannot wait to see your letterboxed review of that one, because I know you're gonna do a good one. Was that is that a okay?

53:44 Twenty twenty three? Yeah, because but I've heard of this before. I'm wondering if this is a reemax. I don't know. Hmm yeah, Martin Campbell, Okay, that could go so many different directions like that could be. I could think like four different movies that that could be. I think I think it's gonna be great no matter which direction it takes. Honestly, I don't care which way we go. I'm gonna love it. I think. Yeah, it could be like that, you know, Grindhouse over the top style. It could be you know, really serious and take the you know the isis in the taliband very seriously and try to be realistic. It could be all over the board. I love it. That's interesting because he doesn't seem to be that kind of guy to make them. I know. Yeah, this feels Just reading that, I felt like it's gonna be full of gratuitous violence or nudity or or both. Like it just you know, it's all it's it's gonna give you a little bit of everything. I think.

54:37 Hmmm, I have to say one thing you didn't mention he did the foreigner? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't think about that. Pretty I really I saw that in a dinner when it came out, and that was that was what I kind of would have liked. For Vertical Limit. It was a little grittier, a little uh sad, sadder maybe because Jackie, you know, he eat up. He's got this goofy uh you know, real wooshoo kind of yeah. He doesn't do the slapstick kinda kind of yeah. I think it was as a father he loses his daughter or something. She get kidding kind of like if but no, that wast So maybe he can do that with three angels. I don't. I'd be good, that'd be good. Uh, well, let's wrap up here, guys.

55:25 Andrew, wait, I think we got I think we got an idea of where Andy's leaning. But I'll start so I'll start with you first. But uh, your recommendation on Vertical Limit. It's not for everybody, but I highly recommend it. I think it's fun if you like climbing or that kind of you know, that kind of movie, but don't go into it expecting Citizen Kane. It's it's definitely got some cliches and some silliness, but I highly recommend it. All right, how about it? Andy? I? Well, for me, I didn't like it. It's like saying, uh, it was like, I would recommend it if you want to watch an action film that just hits all It's got the tropes and it hits all the things you'd expected to do. Yeah, it's just like The Rock or again, like Andrews said earlier, those are those are fun movies and I'll watch them if I'm just want to turn my brain off and have a fun time. So yeah, this was there was I don't want to say there's nail biting because I didn't feel like the characters are in peril. But it was a nice action. There was a nice action, So I'm not I'm not trying to I'm trying to not be a dick. Uh. It's a fun movie. And I think I'm wondering if you guys are taming with your nostalgic views. But I'm wondering. I would love to know if, like if you just saw it for the first time today, how you feel.

56:43 But I would recommend this to somebody who just wants to turn off their brain. That's okay, I'm I'm all in on this one. Again. I think it's a great action movie. The Blu Ray is definitely worth the price of a mission. If you're a Ciniphi and you want to hear a great audio commentary by the director and the producer. There's some really cool bonus features, some of like the documentary the how they made it where you actually see them on the mountain. For me, you know, gives gives me, gave me a lot more respect for the cast and crew to know that they were out there doing this stuff and it wasn't just green screen stuff. Uh. It is fantastic in that regard. And do you even get you even get like a national geographic special. So definitely, if you if you want to, if you pick this up on Amazon or at your local store, it's it's it's worth ten or fifteen bucks. Yeah, I'm definitely. Actually I'm excited. I'm gonna see if i can find that documentary because I always respect from a movie you know, goes out of its way to try to put them in the in the real situation. So that's that's cool. Yeah.

57:45 Well, so that's what we think of Vertical Limit. What do you think of Vertical Limit? Let us know on our social media. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Uh, you can check out www. Dot a Film by Podcast dot com. It's more than just a place to find our episodes. We're writing articles now. I know Andrew's got one in the works for us that's coming soon, and you can always contact us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com. Other than that, our Star Trek theme series Phasers Set to Stun is now available. Dave, Scott and Wayne are discussing all things Trek, and on their current episode, they dive into the first season of Star Trek the Next Generation with their top ten can't miss episodes. I'm following their ten episodes right now. I'm kind of getting a new appreciation for the Next Generation. But next week on a Film Buy, Amber Lewis returns to discuss the morality and profitability of running a brothel inside a morgue when we cover Ron Howard's night shift. Thanks for listening, absolutely, you know what, just back to this documentary real quick like. So you're telling me guy cuts the rope and assumes he just killed

59:17 his best friend, but you're saying the guy lived. Yep, he fell down into a crevasse, broke his legs like landing, and had him crawled out of the mountain through a crevass with broken legs, and he had to do it before his friend left, because like, if he cuts out of the mountain, there's nobody there. He's The story is almost too over the top to be true. I'm just trying. It's a great story of survival. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact, like Brad cuts the rope, I plummet to my impending death, and then I crawl out to meet him at the car, and like I'm just I'm already thinking, like what kind of how much shit am I going to give him? You know, that's the thing too,