Nov. 9, 2025

Mike Nichols - Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

Mike Nichols - Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
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Season 6 A Film By...

Before you make plans to invite your friends over or plan that family dinner party, hear what we have to say about Mike Nichols' 1966 drama Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? in which Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton host the dinner party from Hell! Amber Lewis welcomes "The Authority on the Golden Age of Cinema" Robert Burnett back to the show!

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WEBVTT

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Robert. We've been friends for a long time and we

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know a lot about each other. But I don't think

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I've ever asked you this question. Have you ever attended

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like an awkward dinner party or an awkward get together

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where you were just like, please, dear lord, let me

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find an excuse to go home.

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Every family Thanksgiving ever, right.

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Like, my family doesn't get that bad, Like they'll kind

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of flare up and then it'll calm down, you know.

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No, No, we would see the relations that we would

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only see once a year, and inevitably that it was booze,

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and my uncle would become more and more charming and whimsical,

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and my mother would get more and more hostile toward

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one of her aunts that she despised. One year, she

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threw a gim ledge into my aunt Lee or her

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aunt Lea's my great aunt les face over an argument

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and said, you've always been a badge and you're a bitch.

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Now I've always wanted to do that, but not so

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much to your aunt.

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Well, I know it, well, I mean Lee was a bitch,

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but anyway came in. But no, they are well the

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good preparation for a movie we're gonna talk about today

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because it was a very similar vibe where it's like

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whimsical and funny. Oh my god, now the knives are out.

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It did. Yeah, so yeah, Thankgiving. Always every time.

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Something about that turkey comes out, there's too many knives

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on the table. I don't know, as you said. On

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that note, let's talk about a film by Mike Nichols,

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his nineteen sixty six underrated film Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf.

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Welcome to be a Film by podcast. I'm Amber Lewis,

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and I will be your host for this episode now.

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On our previous Mike Nichols episode where we discussed the

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movie Wolf, Jeff promised me that when Mike Nichols came

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up again, I could pick the movie and dear listeners,

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he lied, as all of you do. Our regular host

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Jeff Johnson. We love him, but he loves to make

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me watch movies that are uncomfortable and make me cringe,

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and this one is no exception. So joining me to

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discuss the worst dinner party in the history of dinner

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parties is our expert in all things Disney, Broadway and

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classic films, my dear friend, Robert Burnett, So welcome.

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Robert Buckle Oh yeah, I guess we got two of

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the three. I mean, although we could count Disney if

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we thought that the Who's a Fate of Virginia Wolf

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was really to the two Who's Afraid of the Big

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Bad Wolf like it was supposed to be and not

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whatever they used and did. But yeah, sot my got

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my Broadway down, got mailed movies. I'm in hog heaven

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for this one.

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I knew you were gonna just be chomping at the bit.

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So now, this was my first time watching this film,

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and honestly, I had like literally actively avoided it. So

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I've now watched it two times.

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To your opinion change? Did your opinion change?

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I did enjoy it more the second time, but I

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still had a tummy ache.

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See it's funny the first time I saw it, And

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that was what I.

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Was gonna ask you, is this This isn't your first time.

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A million times? My first time I saw it, I

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like laughed my ass off and thought it was the

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funniest thing I'd ever seen. And then I watked it

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again a few months later and I all of a sudden,

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I was like, this is horrible. These people are monsters?

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What is that? I was like, like, stop stop doing

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it to each other. And that's one reason why I

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really love this movie is because I take away different

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things every time I watch it. So I was wondering

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when you said it. I didn't know it was your

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first time. Yeah I would if you're second all of

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a sudden, if you kind of flipped and went, oh, well,

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now that some of the parts are funnier and some

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of the parts are sadder, or how it went. But yeah,

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I fascinating. I had no idea.

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Yeah, it was definitely an experience. So now it's also

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it's based on the stage play written by Edward Alby.

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So have you seen the play? Because I feel like

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it would be different. Yes, I have a person. I

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don't know if it well for better or worse, But.

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I don't know. You're getting all my bullet points early.

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I love this. I did see it in a production

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that just about blew my face off. I will tell

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you the cast. It was going to Jackson as Martha,

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John Let's Go as George, Cynthia Nixon was Honey, and

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Brian Kerwin was Nick. Directed by mister Edward Alby himself.

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This was in nineteen eighty nine at the Huntington Hartford Theater,

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which is nice because in Los Angeles that is the

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small theater. It would have been lost in the big

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barns like Yama San and where they do the oscars

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and all that, and it wouldn't have worked. But my

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hand almost flew off when I thought I'd already decided.

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Gwen to Jackson was probably my favorite at the time

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living actress, and to see her in this, I gotta

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tell you it was weirdly not great reviews. It was

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just very which which I think everybody was expecting so

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much more. But I've got to say, Glenda perfect American accent,

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and oh my god, when she got to lines like

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I am the earth Mother and you are all flops,

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like the entire audience was scorched. It was like it

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was like you couldn't and and Ligo was was just

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it was He's completely his own take on the role.

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But he had that same blend like usually Will that

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Burton did, where he can be meek and and and

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and mousey and put upon and then all of a

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sudden kind of stand up straight and just become this

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like like you know, strong in charge. And so they

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were both perfectly cash and I just loved it and say,

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only only production I've ever seen of it. But but

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what a way to go?

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Did you like it live better than on film?

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Well, it was one of those weird things. I had

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seen the movie at that point a billion times. This

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is the movie that that my friends and I at

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the time and Stephen and I since since, because I

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saw it before I've ever met him. But we quote

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this movie all the time. It is so quotable. And

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it took me about fifteen minutes get into the production

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because I kept hearing the film yeah, and I was like,

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that's not right, that's not right, not wrong inflection, No, no,

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that's not but to be funny, and so I was

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kind of like resisting it, but then I kind of

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gave over to it and it was great, and it

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was I mean, the movie is very very close to

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the playscript. I mean it is not one of those

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adaptations where they just said, oh, we'll keep the premise

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and we'll bring in some after characters and we'll like

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have a scene, you know, with thirty other characters. Like. No,

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this is a very well done transfer of play to screen.

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So seeing the play did not really change up much

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about it it, which is neat to see a different

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interpretation of some of these same characters with different different

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dynamics and different you know, kind of kind of power

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plays going on than what I saw in the film. Yeah.

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I always feel like it's a little bit like when

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you've seen a movie a million times at home and

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then you get the opportunity to see it in a

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theater with an an audience, you know, the rest of

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the audience, and they're laughing at things that you never

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laugh at, and you're like, what, it just brings a

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whole different, you know, kind of experience.

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Or if you're me, you laugh at things no one

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else does. I tell you a little and then like

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the entire room is silent. I've like made this like

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big laugh and it's I own it. I don't care.

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You make them think about it later, right exactly?

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To talk about dinner?

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What does that mean?

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Three bits of trivia facts about our director Mike Nichols

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and a quote from Mike Nichols. Richard Burton, who in

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his private diaries is frequently scathing about his colleagues and

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just has no qualms about ripping them to shreds. He

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writes glowingly about Mike Nichols. Professionally, he believed that Nichols

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was one of only three directors who brought out something

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in me as an actor which I didn't know was there.

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And on a personal level, thought Nichols and Noel Coward

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were the only men of talent whose company he actually enjoyed.

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Wow, I'm not surprised. I mean, Elizabeth Coward, like, hello,

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Elizabeth Taylor asked to have Nichols direct this. It was

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his first film, and it was on account of she

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wanted him to do it, So I'm sure. I'm sure

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Richard had something to say about that too, But.

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I mean, luckily they thought about everything else. It's good

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that they agreed on him. Yeah. I know we talked

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about this on our Wolf episode, but I have to

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bring it up again because so dagone impressive. Mike Nichols

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is an egot. He has four Emmys, one Grammy, one

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Oscar and eight Tonys.

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Like he also had no eyebrows. Is that is that

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in your trivia?

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That is not in my trivia.

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He had alopecia, but yeah, yeah, and he had no

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eyebrows and he started wearing fake eyebrows back when he

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was working with Elaine May and kept him up till

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till almost the whole of his life.

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Hey, you got Diane Sawyer, So there has to be

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something to that.

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He was wearing his sexy eyebrows. Right.

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He had five rules for filmmaking. Number one, the careful

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application of terror is an important form of communication, which

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I feel like that is this entire movie for me.

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Number two, anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for.

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I don't know how I feel about that one.

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Number three sounds like it came out of the movie right.

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Number three, there's absolutely no substitute for genuine lack of preparation.

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Number four. If you I think there's good in everybody,

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you haven't met everybody. And number five friends may come

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and go, but enemies will certainly become studio heads.

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It sounds like he must have written those five right

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after he directed this movie, because there's a lot of

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that saying kind of kind of like I have to

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deal with you, but I kind of hate you, but

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it's reciprocal. And yeah, yeah, interesting, interesting.

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And then I love this quote because I love and

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adore Elizabeth Taylor. I think she was just fabulous, and

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Mike Nichols said about her, there are three things I

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never saw Elizabeth Taylor do tell a lie, be unkind

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to anyone and be on time.

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Oh that sounds fabulous.

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I know. It's just the best quote ever.

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I've got two more? Can I throw in two more?

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Yeah? Yeah?

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What is just so random? It was one of those

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like cosmic universe things, right, which is like what now?

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So Nichols famously directed a production of Waiting for GOODO

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in the eighties with Robin Williams and Steve Martin and

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Bill Irwin.

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On PBS and it was so amazing.

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Yeah, But it turns out he has an association with

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that play. Before he teamed up with Elaine May in

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Chicago and was doing their stand up. He was trying

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to be a legit actor, and he appeared in a

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production of Waiting for GOODO as I think it was lucky.

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One of the more minor characters, and one of the

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two leads was Harvey Korman. Oh my god, Harvey Corman.

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Harvey Corman was also trying to be like a legit

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serious actor and Mike Nichols was trying to be this

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legit serious actor. So they appeared in the production of

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Waiting for GOODO in Chicago in nineteen fifty seven. I

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want a time machine and I want to go back

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to see Harvey Corman in a Beckett play. I just

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without like a funny accent or boobs or you know

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whatever else he needed to do to make it funny.

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That just blew my mind. I was like, this is

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the kind of weird trivia that it gets me excited.

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The other one though, and putting on my Broadway hat

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for a minute. Nichols, as you mentioned, it is an egot.

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He has a bunch of te's in that egot, Tony, Tony, Tony.

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But he was also really famous in the biz for

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being a show doctor, which is basically somebody who isn't

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really a writer or a director or involved with the

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show at all, but swoops in when they're having trouble

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and says, here's what you need to do. Boom boom boom,

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you're going to have a hit, And then they do

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those things and they have a hit. So he's most

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famous for taking the musical Annie from this ridiculous hot

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mess that was not working and had all kinds of problems,

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and he came in and like Mike Nichols did, and said, no,

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we're doing this, We're doing that we're changing this, we're

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changing that. Here's what you're going to do. And of

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course it opened and played for years and you know,

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everybody in America can sing tomorrow. But he also did

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that for My One and Only, which is a fantastic

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Gershwind musical, and lots of other shows. They would just

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call him up and say, Mike, we got some problems.

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The funny part of it is a lot of show

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doctors do it out of friendship. It's in the theater community.

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I'll help you out, and you're gonna come and help

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me out whatever. Mike Nichols always got paid for it,

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even though he was not credited. He made sure he

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was always paid, which I think was a little window

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into his mind or his life that that, oh, he

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would help, he'd be a pal. But he also, you know,

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had a contract.

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Yeah, shrewd, very shrud. That's awesome. I did not know that.

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All.

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Right, here we go. We're getting into it. As I mentioned,

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this film is about the Dinner Party from Hell. So Robert,

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can you give our listeners who may not have seen

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or heard this film a little more informative synopsis than

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just you know, it's two hours of misery.

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Certainly it is a George and Martha sad sad sad anyway.

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One of my favorite quotes from that I said it

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all the time anyway. The film is set in a

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small college town. George is a middling professor married to

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the president of the college's daughter, Martha. Keep those mind

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names in mind. George and Martha, they become symbolicalator in

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anyway that they are been married for some time, they

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are discontent that they, like many longtime married couples, they

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have their moments, but they're they are to kind of

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over each other at this point in their marriage. She

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in particular things that George should have made more of himself. She,

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after all, is the daughter of the president, and uh, George,

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she feels is done enough to be running the school.

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As she says, you are in the English department. You

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should be the English department anyway, in her emphatic way

276
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of speaking. And they've come home from this ghastly party

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that we did not see, and as he's winding down

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and getting ready to go to bed, she announces, oh, no,

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no time for that. Makes some drinks. We've got guests

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coming over. She has invited two young people. They don't

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actually have names. We never learned their real names. He

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is known by conventionist Nick. I think it's in like

283
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the play text, but he doesn't name's never given, and

284
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she is called Honey. But we don't know their names.

285
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They're just this younger couple. He is in the math department.

286
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Well he's not in the math department. Martha says he's

287
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in the math department. Anyway. Turns out he's actually in

288
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the science department. But anyway, they are coming over for

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a night cap because Martha has invited them, and we

290
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spend their red to the evening more or less in

291
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real time with them. Over the next couple hours, as

292
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they drink and drink more and drink more, and all

293
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four people start to kind of unravel and show their

294
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their other side and what's really going on. And there

295
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:20.720
are shenanigans and high jinks and party games, lots of

296
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party games, my favorite, the well known named hump the Hostess,

297
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.680
But anyway, that one comes after get the guests and

298
00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:34.160
before bringing up baby. But anyway, party games and lots

299
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:40.359
of drinking and animosity, and after many hours of arguing

300
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:45.279
and recriminations and the secrets revealed, everything kind of explodes

301
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.400
and Nick and Honey are finally dismissed, and George and

302
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.319
Martha realize it is dawn and have to begin another

303
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.480
day in their marriage. Slow curtain the end.

304
00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:58.839
I love the first five minutes, but then after that,

305
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I'm like, why are these two people still married to

306
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.680
each other? Just save yourself and run away.

307
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.079
You can see it all through though. That's one thing

308
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I love about this movie is especially in the first

309
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five minutes, which is so brilliant because it sets it

310
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.480
all up. But they are affectionate and and they do

311
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.079
they have got which probably Burton and Taylor Bills brought

312
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.000
a lot of their own relationship along with fast that

313
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.920
they're both amazing actors. But I just totally bought this

314
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.759
is a couple who've been together forever, and they go

315
00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.839
off into their little baby talk game, and they go

316
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off into their little thing and they have that same

317
00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:39.519
fight they always have. It's kind of like a fun

318
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:44.240
little Saturday night tradition. And they just I totally bought

319
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:49.200
them as a long time married couple. And and I

320
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but they were close. I didn't I didn't think that

321
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:52.599
they were you know.

322
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.680
Go ahead, Oh sorry, no, I was gonna say. I

323
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love the whole sequence when she quotes Betty Davis and

324
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.160
she's like, what is that movie? And she goes through

325
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the whole scene imitating Betty Davis and describes this movie.

326
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:14.759
And that is such a real, like longtime couple argument,

327
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.920
like you know, the one with the guy in the thing,

328
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and what I.

329
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.079
Love about that sequence too. And I can talk about

330
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the opening sequence now, I guess rather than save it

331
00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:25.960
up for later, but I.

332
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:29.559
Think we're kind of throwing our guideline out the window.

333
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.359
Now. That's fine, but the opening sequence to me, the

334
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:34.839
first well, I mean, first of all, you've got like

335
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this three or four minute credits montage of this quiet,

336
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:43.400
peaceful college campus. It's very late at night, there's no

337
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one around except a couple walking through the dark, and

338
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we don't really see them. And it goes on for

339
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.000
a couple of minutes, and then you see the couple

340
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in silhouette coming to the front door, and then we

341
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.480
do a reverse angle and it's dark and the door

342
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.599
opens and the light switch turns on. There are Burton

343
00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:07.119
and Taylor just standing there in this hideous light, just

344
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.400
staring straight ahead. It is such a brilliant star entrance.

345
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I love Star entrances in movies, and this is such

346
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.759
a great one because I mean, they were two of

347
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.240
the most famous actors in the world at that time,

348
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:21.359
they were the most famous couples certainly in the world

349
00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.279
at that time, and we get this great build up

350
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.240
to them just like and boom, there they are, like

351
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.759
you almost want to applaud, like during that pause they're

352
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:30.079
about just.

353
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:34.880
You can feel like that is the moment when someone

354
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.680
famous is in a Broadway show and they made their

355
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:42.559
entrance and you lose the whole show for like five minutes.

356
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.839
While so brilliant, but then to your point, she goes

357
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off on that Betty Davis riff. That entire bit just

358
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:53.079
not only is it hilariously funny, and she's sitting there

359
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.359
and bless Elizabeth Taylor for putting on thirty pounds for

360
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.440
this role like she did and everything else. She's sitting

361
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.720
there like eating fried chicken out of the fridge, talking

362
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.839
with her mouth full, and it's like las so George

363
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:08.519
chewing on her chickens.

364
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.240
At the same time, yeah, and then eating like.

365
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.359
He's like not even listening, but he's listening enough that

366
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.640
he keeps correcting her grammar, which I think is hilarious.

367
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.400
It's like the perfect red couple. I am the George

368
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.920
in that race. Grammar can't help it. Even when I'm

369
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.440
not listening, I'm like, no, it's to whom, not to

370
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:31.440
whom anyway. But her speech where she basically ostensibly talking

371
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:35.519
about this Betty Davis movie, Betty Davis comes home from

372
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:38.799
a hard day at the grocery store, and he's like,

373
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:43.279
what she's like, she's a housewife, she buys thing. It's hilarious,

374
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.839
and then she does this whole thing and it's so funny,

375
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:50.440
and it's like just campy and funny and just exactly

376
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.200
what you would think she would say. But then there's

377
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.920
this pause and he says, he mumbles something, and she

378
00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:00.359
says she discontent, and all of a sudden, she's not

379
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.160
talking about the damn movie anymore. She's not being her

380
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:09.640
like blousy, funny self. She is like, here's what we're

381
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:12.599
really talking about now, and to me, that that is

382
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.680
what so many relationships, whether it's with your parents or

383
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.279
with your whatever. It's like, I'm gonna shoot the breeze

384
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.720
about this movie we were talking about. But then oh wait,

385
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:24.559
here's my thing. Boom uh. The opening scene is great

386
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.920
and then so many more quotable lines. The mousey little

387
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.640
thing with any without any hips or anything. She says

388
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:35.119
about the guests coming. I just and then and then

389
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:39.599
I squeal every time. When he's like, don't bray, Martha,

390
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:45.799
She's like, I don't pray. Oh my god. And props

391
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:53.359
for Elizabeth Taylor for making herself so just almost grotesquely unattractive, unappealing,

392
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.400
brain eating her chicken, boobs are falling out of her dress.

393
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.920
Still the most beautiful woman in the history of the world. Yes,

394
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.480
she's got all this makeup on. Oh you know, a

395
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:09.039
wig that's grey, like she had put on weight, which

396
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.920
even with extra weight, like, she looks fabulous, and you're

397
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.880
still just like, my god, it's amazing.

398
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:19.559
It sets up the whole movie so brilliantly, and the

399
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.480
whole play before that, but where ostensibly they're talking about

400
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:28.200
one thing, but really there's all this other stuff that's

401
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:32.599
going on. So her discussion about Betty Davis being the

402
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.119
discontent housewife, Yes, she's trying to remember what the quote

403
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.720
is she says when she says want to dump, But

404
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:43.079
also she is now introduced like, here's our theme of

405
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:46.279
what tonight's going to be about I'm just content that

406
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.960
that's our topic. We can call it Betty Davis, we

407
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.160
can call it, you know, whatever you want. But here's

408
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.720
what's going to really go down, and it does. It

409
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.720
sets up the wreck of the movie so well.

410
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:00.839
So now I have a question for you because this

411
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:07.880
has bothered me through both like watchings. So you get

412
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:13.119
through exposition that it's two am when the first party

413
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:17.759
ends and they come staggering home and they're already blotto.

414
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:23.839
So my question is to Nick and Honey, like, who

415
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.279
agrees to go out for a nightcap at two am?

416
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:31.680
Like what sort of self destructive, like kind of wanting

417
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.799
to be beaten kind of people are these that you

418
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.160
already have read the room and know that these two

419
00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:40.359
are a hot mess from the party you were just

420
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.519
at because their behavior was disgusting there. So why in

421
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:45.720
God's name do they go?

422
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.880
Well? I amber the reason is because, as we learned

423
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.720
about all the characters, nobody's what they seem us at first.

424
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:58.480
Nick is super super ambitious, and she is, as we

425
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:03.319
hear often, the college president's daughter. And he knows that

426
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.880
if the college president daughter says, come have a drink

427
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.359
and it's freaking two in the morning, and everyone's already slashed.

428
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.359
You go and you, you know, suck up and you

429
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.319
kiss her button, you defer, and you because well, think

430
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.920
about how deferential and also flirty he is in the

431
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:20.759
beginning with her.

432
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.640
He is disgustingly flirty with her.

433
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.200
At the beginning, and then and under the under the

434
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.559
guys probably of oh we're all a little tipsy, ah

435
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.240
flirty thirty, your husband's right here, there's my wife. It

436
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.279
doesn't mean anything, right, everybody in this movie is is

437
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.599
in some way or they're kind of despicable and although

438
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.559
also entertaining. But but he is just career minded. And

439
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.240
I mean he married he marries Honey. Spoilers alert for

440
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.519
everybody listening. If you haven't watched the movie, pause now

441
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:56.000
because we are already. But anyway, yeah, he already we

442
00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:01.559
already learned that that he married Honey ustensibly because she

443
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:04.240
thought she was pregnant, but in actuality because her family

444
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.680
has a lot of money. They mentioned that that that

445
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.960
her father has money. So Nick, yeah, I.

446
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.440
Was so focused on the hysterical pregnancy thing.

447
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.400
When he and when he and m and George are

448
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.680
having their little hell they did the round robin thing

449
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.359
in this the only thing we don't really get is

450
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:28.440
a really good scene, a long scene between Honey and Martha,

451
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.160
which would have been great. But we have, like, you know,

452
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.480
the different pairings.

453
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.680
Of I don't know, I couldn't handle George being mean

454
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:37.480
to Honey. I don't think I could have handled Martha

455
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.599
just eating her alive in little tiny pieces.

456
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.240
Oh well, okay, we have we have different different takes

457
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.720
on Honey. But no, I think I think Nick is

458
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.519
just super super ambitious and if he need to help

459
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.559
the hostess to get a promotion, he'll do it.

460
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.559
Oh that just makes him even more gross, Like already

461
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:58.680
didn't like him.

462
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:00.640
Do you love? Though? I mean when I think of

463
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.880
George Siegel, I think of I guess, late period George

464
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.519
Siegel what I amused to seeing, where you know, the

465
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.720
sweet little Jewish man, the comedian even.

466
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:17.960
On like he's and is he's the the schmo and

467
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.400
look who's talking that gets Kirsty ally pregnant and he's

468
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:22.279
such a jerk.

469
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:24.759
Yeah, but but he like I mean, I think that's

470
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.039
all I can think of. Well, he was on that

471
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:28.960
I think it was called Just Shoot Me. Maybe there

472
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.319
was a sitcom with him and David Spade and some

473
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:34.839
other people. He'd been in a lot of things, but

474
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.440
he almost always, especially the older he got, which is

475
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:43.240
very comical and very lovable and twinkling and and comical,

476
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:46.519
kind of leaned more into the Jewish thing, which he

477
00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:48.759
kind of did not do in early in his career.

478
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.240
And and but in this it's like I forget that

479
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.160
early on he was really more of a dramatic actor

480
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:01.720
than he was a comic actor. But he found a

481
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:02.839
groove and went there, you.

482
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.920
Know, yeah, for sure. Well, let's take a quick break

483
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.599
and then when we come back, we'll get even further

484
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.039
into the cast and talk about the production and talk

485
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.000
about some noteworthy scenes.

486
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:17.920
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496
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.519
So welcome back to our discussion of Who's Afraid of

497
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.960
Virginia Wolf. Let's continue talking about the cast. There's only

498
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.920
four people in the whole movie. I don't count like

499
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:09.160
the bar, center, at the at the pub they stop at,

500
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.839
because they don't do that in the play, right.

501
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.079
Their whole play is in their living room. It's one set.

502
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.720
And that's one thing I think Nichols did, because he

503
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.440
is our raised debtra for this episode. Mike Nichols just

504
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:27.920
made this what could have been stagey one set play

505
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.759
so filmmic. It is just you don't ever get this

506
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.799
viewing that you're you're trapped in one room with these people.

507
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.839
I mean partly because they did set up the device

508
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.599
of zooming off to the roads, roadhouse or whatever it

509
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.559
was with the jukebox or whatever, and then coming back

510
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.160
and then they film one of the scenes is outside

511
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:53.920
or in their backyard or wherever, but even the scene

512
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.240
so in the house, Nichols just keeps the camera moving

513
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.400
and the editing going to where he You do not

514
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.839
feel like you are watching something that's going on behind

515
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.559
the proscenium and you're like oh god, are we ever

516
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.200
going to get out of this room? But yeah, and

517
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.599
weirdly more trivia the I learned this today when I

518
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.440
was reading up a little bit more on it. The

519
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.200
guy at the roadhouse and the waitress or barmaid or

520
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:22.200
whatever she is, we're actually that that's the gaffer and

521
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:25.160
his wife. They just like they were just like somebody

522
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.240
come in here and carry a tray of glasses and

523
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:30.359
you come and yeah, so they did. They just did that,

524
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.880
but yeah, only only for four actors.

525
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.400
And talking about the way Mike Nichols shot this, I

526
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.599
am not a big fan of super duper close ups.

527
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.720
They make me very uncomfortable. And but the way he

528
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:49.160
uses them in this movie to make you uncomfortable, I

529
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:54.680
think is so amazing and to make sometimes it makes

530
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:59.039
the character vulnerable, sometimes it makes them uglier. Sometimes you know,

531
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.400
it makes them harder. It just kind of depends on

532
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.960
the angle. I thought that was really really well done.

533
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.240
I love how he uses individual close ups and then

534
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.319
sometimes who'll have like two people in a shot. Yes,

535
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:20.000
that whole sequence where it's all starting to unravel near

536
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.440
the end, and all of a sudden, poor Nick is like,

537
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:26.240
I don't know a few people are lying or what.

538
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.279
And then all of a sudden we cut to this

539
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:30.720
shot and it's been a lots of like on one head,

540
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:32.480
one head, one head. He said, I don't know if

541
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.799
you two were lying or what. All of a sudden

542
00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:37.559
they're George and Martha side by side in the shot

543
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.119
and they're like, you're damn right, you're not supposed to

544
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.799
and it's like bam, they've like teamed up literally in

545
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.799
the shot on him. And then there's a great follow

546
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:55.000
up where George says sorry, Nick says something about like, oh,

547
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.559
and your parents were there? Was that after you shot them?

548
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.759
And we see only Burton in the shot, only George,

549
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.640
and he says maybe, and then all of a sudden,

550
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.039
up pops Martha into the frame and goes yeah or

551
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.000
maybe not. And it's like these two have got like

552
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.680
this like two for act going. That is so brilliant.

553
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:22.039
And then those scenes would not have played the same

554
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.480
way if you'd been doing justice close ups or just

555
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:28.799
like a master shot or something. And then that great.

556
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.519
I just love the cinematography of this and the filming

557
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.759
that great. The only time we really get a big

558
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:36.799
master shot the very beginning of the party, when they

559
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.319
all sit down on the couch and they're kind of

560
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.519
yacking a little bit, and George is hovering in the background.

561
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:43.839
And then at the end when like all hell is

562
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:47.000
broken loose and they're getting ready to leave, and what

563
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.319
was the but Taylor crying her eyes out and it

564
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.559
just snap dragons or all over the floor. It's the

565
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:53.400
whole thing, I think, gladiolos.

566
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:56.519
But anyway, who I was gonna say this. They're not snapchecking, I.

567
00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:00.519
Know, but anyway, but whatever they are. The all of

568
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.480
a sudden we get this great master shot and for

569
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.240
the first time in the film, it's not like you're

570
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.400
at the party. You're at the in the room with them,

571
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:14.640
not like a straight on shot. The camera's way up

572
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.640
showing her sitting in the window box crying and George

573
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:20.400
is hovering over her, and the other couple is in

574
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.960
the corner kind of like trying to think, like how

575
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:24.440
the hell can we get to that door? It's only

576
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.119
four feet away, but like help us, And we have

577
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:31.480
this long master shot as all these final things are

578
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.039
being said, and then they go into that nice shot

579
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:38.119
of George and Martha in the window frame where he

580
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.160
comes over and consoles her and they're they're having the

581
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.400
very last line of the film, and again just so filming,

582
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.559
it's so great to all of a sudden kind of

583
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.759
set up the claustrophobia and the being too close and

584
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.559
they literally are in your face yelling and screaming at you.

585
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:57.240
The party starts would have we're kind of omnissioned and detached,

586
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.519
and it kind of ends that way where I think

587
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.680
it partly just to give us breathing room. At this

588
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.559
point we are all rung out, just like they are,

589
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.319
and like a little nauseous and a little bit.

590
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.719
Like seriously like my tummy hurts.

591
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:11.880
Like you want to put your drink down. You're like,

592
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:13.239
I'm never doing that again, you know.

593
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:14.280
Yeah.

594
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:18.079
But I think that that lovely second to last shot

595
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:21.559
where the cameras just very removed is it's like we're

596
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:26.239
backing up. It's ending, you can you know, the franticness

597
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.960
and the claustrophobia and the intensity it's dissipating now. So

598
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:37.400
Nichols his direction is so extraordinary, how he tells so

599
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:39.000
much of the story or give so much of the

600
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:42.320
feeling through where he puts his cameras and stuff, which

601
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:47.039
which again with four people in one one setting, ostensibly

602
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:50.760
it could be really dull to watch. But you know,

603
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.079
I mean did did this. Both the play and the

604
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.400
film had really LPs of the entire show. You can

605
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:03.000
you can get them. Yeah, And because like literally it

606
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:06.199
is a radio play, you don't need to see any

607
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.920
of this, yeah to get it. Albi is great, but

608
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.960
he's very talking, but you don't need to really see

609
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:16.480
anything's going on. Ever, So the album is both sold

610
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.880
and both work. But but Nichols was able to take

611
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.119
take it and make it so filmic and make it

612
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:26.800
work as a movie where you were not visually bored

613
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:30.239
or or you know, able to anticipate what you were

614
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:31.360
going to see next.

615
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:38.599
Absolutely, Let's talk about Richard Burton. He is usually like

616
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:43.440
I always thinking of the movie The Sandpipers, like so romantic,

617
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:48.280
so dashing, oh my gosh, like you could just fade.

618
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:55.039
And he is so like driven to his knees by

619
00:35:55.119 --> 00:36:02.360
Martha on so many occasions that he finally like steps

620
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.320
to her. At first, you're kind of cheering him on,

621
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.960
but he always takes it too far. Yeah, Like, and

622
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:13.320
I can't get over the fact that you know he was,

623
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:18.360
you know, just a famous drinker in the you know,

624
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:22.360
pantheon of like Richard Harris and Peter O'Toole and just

625
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:26.039
carousing their way through you know, the English countryside. But

626
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:31.079
he remained sober during working hours because he said, like

627
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:35.559
he you can't work when you're falling apart, Like I

628
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.639
can play drunk, but I can't be drunk and play

629
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.559
like it just doesn't happen.

630
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:44.440
Since I saw on one of the Bonus features things

631
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.639
that they were showing some behind the scenes footage, and

632
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:50.920
I was like, what is going on with Burton? What

633
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:53.360
is happening? Because he's standing there and he's listening, I

634
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.360
think probably to Mike Nichols. I forget who siderable people

635
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.920
in the shot and he's standing there listening, and You're like,

636
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.719
something is not right. And I'm not going to say

637
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:05.880
that he was like swaying and anebriate, and he was not.

638
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:09.199
But all of a sudden he go to step up

639
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.480
in front of the camera and his whole posture just crumpled,

640
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:14.559
and I was like, oh my god. He was like

641
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.360
when he was listening and not acting, he was like

642
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.360
standing up with this great posture and looked his head

643
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.679
up and like they said, well film and it was

644
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:26.480
like this beaten down man who like aged ten years

645
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:28.079
walked in front of the camera and I was like,

646
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.239
oh my god, I mean it was it seems like

647
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:34.480
it should be obvious, but I was like, he's doing

648
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.800
so much and his power in this because he is

649
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:40.440
so beaten down for so much of the movie. When

650
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:42.559
he starts to kind of get back his power and

651
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:49.199
flips the switch on poor little uh Martha Burton, I mean,

652
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:51.400
did keep that camera on his face and you can

653
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:55.239
just see the thought process and the evil evil glints

654
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:58.840
and and the the you know, I mean just.

655
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.280
Every time he's listening to Nick and Honey, you can

656
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:09.360
watch him filing away all this information that he is

657
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:12.840
going to use to just destroy their lives later on.

658
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:17.079
Like Martha, I think is more like she shoots from

659
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.760
the hip. I don't think she's as calculated as he is.

660
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:28.559
She's just so quick that she can just nail you,

661
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.880
you know, without having to really work at it. Where

662
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:36.920
he is constantly like preparing and sifting through everything you've

663
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.320
said for the thing that he can devastate you with

664
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:41.199
the most.

665
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:44.320
That that is one criticism that this movie and play

666
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:49.920
of both received was that exactly to your point, George

667
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:55.599
and then also Nick, the men are very shrewd and

668
00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.840
calculating and smart and and and and whatever you want

669
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.880
to call it. And Honey and Martha are just emotional.

670
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:09.559
They're not and and and so the people are acute

671
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:13.039
albion in another plays too, of being very kind of sexist,

672
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:18.360
where the women are reactive and emotional and and and

673
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.480
the men are smarter and in control and and and

674
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:26.039
and thinking ahead and in that kind of thing. And

675
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:27.559
it doesn't.

676
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:29.039
Didn't think of it that way, but that does seem

677
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.559
to be a fair criticism now, and it also.

678
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.719
It sets up the wonderful fan theory. I keep waiting

679
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:36.920
for someone to write the play, but I love the

680
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.400
fact that that in Nick and Honey because of that,

681
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.360
because the men are both playing the long game, so

682
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.880
to speak, and listening and really carefully and gathering up

683
00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:49.400
all all their little bits of knowledge they can use

684
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:51.639
against somebody later, and the women are just kind of

685
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:55.599
like whenever, I'm just you know, in my moment. But

686
00:39:56.360 --> 00:40:00.360
the idea is that with Nick and Honey, what we're

687
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:04.559
looking at is a future George and Martha put twenty

688
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:06.960
years on them, and they will be exactly like George

689
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:13.880
and Martha are the same dynamics. She's emotional and manipulative

690
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:18.880
and he is shrewd and kind of playing a role.

691
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:21.599
I know it's a theory. I don't know if I

692
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.639
buy it either, But people people think that's like I

693
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:24.599
feel like situating.

694
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.079
Maybe it could have been if they hadn't gone to

695
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:28.679
this party.

696
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:30.920
Mmm. I like that.

697
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:34.599
I think that this experience, like they are leaving changed people,

698
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.199
and I don't think they'll ever be alone in a

699
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.440
room with Georgia Martha ever.

700
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.679
Again, No, no one should, I.

701
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:45.519
Mean seriously, And that's the thing that drives me crazy

702
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.199
is why don't she just leave? Like I would have

703
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.679
gotten it the minute he brought out that freaking shotgun

704
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:55.519
that gag. Mmm, I'm out.

705
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:58.440
Yeah, Well, I think at that point, I mean that

706
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:00.719
that is a valid question, because there's so many times

707
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:03.719
where I'm like no, it's like no, that is when

708
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:05.880
I'd be like, get the car, We're out of here.

709
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:10.039
I'm not, I'm not, but but are you? I don't know.

710
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.159
Especially with Nick, there is this kind of mano a mano,

711
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:18.480
like the two rams butting their heads sing right, feel

712
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:22.000
like as long as George's game, Nick is gonna keep

713
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.320
pushing at him and they're gonna see who's like the

714
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.559
real the real man in in this. You know, I

715
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:28.960
don't know perhaps.

716
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:30.840
Well, and I do keep reminding myself and I was

717
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:35.360
trying to keep track and I always lose track, but like,

718
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:40.360
just how freaking drunk are they? How many drinks do

719
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:40.880
they have?

720
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.599
Like I was.

721
00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:44.800
Trying to keep track and I kept getting distracted and

722
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.480
then I'd lose count. But I mean they're like half

723
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:53.679
a Battle of Brandy in, you know, halfway through the movie,

724
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:57.320
and I mean I would be in the hospital.

725
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.599
Well when George does break the unbottle though, so you know,

726
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.079
at least we were spared that.

727
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:10.800
Yes, did you love? One of my favorite things when

728
00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:15.400
they come back from the roadhouse, there's a whole sequence

729
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:19.039
with Elizabeth Taylor just kind of walking through the house

730
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.719
and she's looking, She's like, where did everybody go? And

731
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:23.840
she's looking for them, and she walks out into the

732
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.519
yard and the whole time she's carrying her drink and

733
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:30.079
you just hear this incessant clinking of her ice cubes.

734
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:34.519
I don't know why I am so fascinated by that,

735
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.000
but that whole sequence, I was just like in it,

736
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.000
and it had to do with that that sound effect,

737
00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:46.239
you know, was just so effective, like this this ghost

738
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.880
rattling through the wreckage of this party.

739
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.800
That is hilarious because I'm thinking about it. You don't

740
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:58.880
usually hear the ice cubes through the movie, but you

741
00:42:58.920 --> 00:42:59.880
hear them then for sure.

742
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:07.199
I love Elizabeth Taylor. I think she is absolutely amazing

743
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:13.000
in this role. To play twenty years older and unattractive

744
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:14.679
and hateful.

745
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.079
Well, that's the thing is, she did nothing to make

746
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:21.280
her character. None of them did but likable. There was

747
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.199
no but y'all know, I'm Elizabeth Taylor. Wink wink. It

748
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:27.920
was like, no, she was a virago. She was just

749
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:35.880
shrill and loud and braying and everything else. And it

750
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:38.920
makes me a little sad because so much of her

751
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.960
career she spent just being kind of the pretty object,

752
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.760
you know, and it was like.

753
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:48.639
A place in the sun where she's like the trophy,

754
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:49.639
this beautiful.

755
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:53.639
Yeah, And she was absolutely that I got she was stunning.

756
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:57.360
But she had so much depth. I mean, I think

757
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.880
this is probably by far my favorite movie of her

758
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.960
in terms of her acting and her range, because she

759
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:05.280
gets to do so much.

760
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.199
Now, we talked about George Siegel a little bit. Sandy Dennis.

761
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:14.679
How do we feel about her? She makes me crazy?

762
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:18.079
And when I see the list of actresses that played

763
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:22.559
Honey on stage, you know, like Carry Kuon and Cynthia

764
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:29.440
Nixon and you know Imma Jeen Poots, I'm like, anybody else?

765
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:31.840
Does she make you crazy? Do you like her?

766
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:37.159
I don't like her, But by the way you left

767
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.880
off the original Honey, Melinda Dylan, Oh my gosh, that's right.

768
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:45.960
Ten years later is Richard Dreyfus's a little fling and

769
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:48.880
Close Encounters of the third kind talk about range like,

770
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:50.960
I'm gonna be on Broadway doing Albie and then I'm

771
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.119
going to be in a Spielberg movie. And I can nail.

772
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:59.360
I can nail both. But no, Sandy Dennis gives me hives. Basically,

773
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.480
I mean she is. She won an Oscar for it.

774
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:03.800
I mean that was one of the things about this

775
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.400
movie is all four of the actors won Oscars for

776
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.280
the movie. I mean it, it was kind of it

777
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.079
was nominated for thirteen and won five and but all

778
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:18.440
four and I just I mean the sifty when we

779
00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:21.079
started doing Kookie and Weird, that's why we got Nickel,

780
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:24.199
Jack Nicholson and and al Patino and a lot of

781
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:28.159
those actors who were not a movie star handsome or

782
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:32.440
classically trained. It was these kind of more real people.

783
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:37.079
But I I, yeah, I I I liked her when

784
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.840
I saw her in this, even though the character is

785
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:42.639
annoying as fuck, but you know, liked her a lot.

786
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.719
But then I saw her in like two other things,

787
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.519
and I was like, oh my god, that's just her.

788
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.599
She just like she's not inhabiting a role. She's just

789
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.760
this weird KABOOKI.

790
00:45:56.320 --> 00:46:00.239
Is the same way, yes, yeah, where they just like

791
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.400
show up and are weird and twitchy.

792
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:05.440
And or do you mean Jennifer Chilly? You mean no,

793
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.840
Meg Tilly. Jennifer Tilly is a national treasure and I.

794
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.239
Love Yeah, but they're talking against her.

795
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:13.039
Okay, I just want to make sure we were on

796
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:13.559
the same patient.

797
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:16.199
But yeah, Dennis.

798
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:18.840
I'm told it was very very effective. I think she

799
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:20.880
I think she has a tony for something else. I mean,

800
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:21.400
she was.

801
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:27.079
People love her, not me, No, But then I wondered, like,

802
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:33.599
Honey is annoying, but I feel so I hate when

803
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:38.199
George turns on her, when he rips her apart because

804
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:42.840
of the baby and just starts taking all this information

805
00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:47.159
that he's gathered and just completely eviscerates her. I hate

806
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.320
it so much because it's I'm like kicking a kitten.

807
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:56.519
There's no challenge there, there's no you know. I think

808
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.760
it is spiteful and mean just for the hell of it.

809
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.119
I think it's more to get at Nick more than

810
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.679
it is to do a faft Honey. And and and

811
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:05.239
let me.

812
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:08.320
Hope doesn't care. Well, no, he doesn't get as mad

813
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:09.039
as he should.

814
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.039
No, But the that's the thing. I mean, George and

815
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.679
Martha are super loyal to each other. You you know,

816
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:16.960
you can, they can ripeat o the guts out. But

817
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:18.760
you do not get to play that game that is

818
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.960
that is just for them. You are not worthy. But

819
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.519
I I like to believe Honey seems like she is

820
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.400
the only one in the film who has had a drink,

821
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:32.920
and and obviously far too many. She is super like

822
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.960
drunk and weird all through. And I like to believe

823
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.239
that the next morning she's gonna wake up and and

824
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:42.239
have a horrible headache and and and a dry mouth

825
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.280
and and and turned to Nick and say, did we

826
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:47.440
go to that those people's house last night? Did we

827
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:48.960
have fun? And he was like it was fine, dear

828
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.920
and she's like, Okay, that's why I'm hoping, because yeah,

829
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.400
that was that was a lot that George unleashed on her.

830
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:58.679
I also wonder too, because I believe these people are

831
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:04.280
all real. I wonder George just was so frustrated with

832
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:09.199
Martha that he was just lashing out, like at anybody

833
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:14.920
and everybody, you know, without without his usual calculation and stuff.

834
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:19.599
He just was just being he just kind of his Yeah.

835
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.079
Can I talk for a minute about about the screenwriter?

836
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:26.840
Oh yeah, since we're ostensibly in the cast and crew

837
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.760
portion of the year, I know, sorry, death outline, there's

838
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.559
no outline with us now anyway. The no, it's that

839
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:39.440
Ernest Lehman was the screenwriter for this. Now. What I

840
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:42.960
love about Ernest Lehman is he made like twenty movies

841
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:48.800
and all but one he adapted a stage play into

842
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.719
a movie. So he was known famously in Hollywood as

843
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:57.119
the person who wrote exterior George and Martha's House in

844
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:01.639
between all the dialogue because he never changed the dialogue really,

845
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.159
not ever, very very rarely he did. He was mainly

846
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:08.280
known weirdly for musicals. He he he took The King

847
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:11.960
and I and then West Side Story, which we've talked about,

848
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.760
and then the sound of Music and then Streisand's Hello Dolly.

849
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.639
All of those were screenplayed by Ernest Lehman, which basically

850
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:24.480
may meant take take the play and just write some

851
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:27.280
directions for the camera on the page and something else.

852
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.880
Now West Side Story, he did come up with the

853
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:33.320
ideal that was also Robert. Why is the director switching

854
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:34.199
some scenes around?

855
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:38.559
Robert Wise has his hands all over the place.

856
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:41.519
Yeah, so so that. But but but Lehman was basically

857
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.360
was the go to guy for we have a smashed

858
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.039
Broadway show, how do we make this a movie? Handed

859
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:50.039
to earn it, till write in you know, exterior day, uh,

860
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:54.920
you know whatever. But but but he did write one

861
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.599
screenplay entirely on his own. It was his own idea

862
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.800
and he wrote it himself. And that was north By Northwest.

863
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:04.480
So if you're only gonna have one movie that you

864
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.440
remembered for your movie, I'm like, where he got this?

865
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:12.239
I have no idea. But Hitchcock loved him. He also

866
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:14.880
worked on Family Plot too. I forget if he got credited,

867
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:18.400
but he worked on the last Hitchcock the Family Plot movie.

868
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:21.480
But but Liam and what I love especially about himides

869
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:23.599
the fact that he had a twenty five year Hollywood

870
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:28.480
career just turning plays in the movies. But was that

871
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:33.719
he this movie, this lovely movie. We're talking about black

872
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:38.280
and white, four characters, dark, nasty, foul language. It was

873
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:40.239
unrated at the time, and I let him get released.

874
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:47.079
Came out in between Sound of Music and Hello Dolly.

875
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:51.800
Before that it was the Singing Nuns and the Alps,

876
00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.320
and after that it was Barbara being you know, bigger

877
00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:57.360
than the train Station and everything else, and then he

878
00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:59.360
slid this one in in between them, So I mean

879
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:03.960
nothing else. That guy was versatile. But anyway, I crashed

880
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.000
me up because because you can literally sit with the

881
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:11.639
play in your lap and watch the film and I think,

882
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.639
what one like, you know, fuck you turned into or

883
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.800
screwed you? Maybe it was turned into damn you. You know,

884
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:23.360
there's like a few little barely uh language shifts, and

885
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:27.599
that's it. That's all he did. Was basically like the dialogue.

886
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.639
It's all there on the page. You can do a

887
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:34.639
read along. But Lehman and Nichols obviously came up with

888
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.280
the shots and the angles, along with the Haskell Wexler,

889
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:43.639
who did the amazing cinematography. But uh yeah, I can't

890
00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:47.679
understand the career of Erness Lehmann because some of my

891
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:50.280
some of my favorite movies, and he contributed as far

892
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:51.440
as I can tell, nothing.

893
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:54.440
But when you got a gag, you know.

894
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.719
But but you know, North Northwest.

895
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:00.599
Like I would forgive a lot of that movie.

896
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.559
Yeah, exactly, exactly, all right, I.

897
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.960
Want to talk behind the scenes a little bit. So

898
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:12.559
this story just completely blows my mind. Burton and Taylor,

899
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:18.079
as you have said, were like the hugest stars, I

900
00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:25.639
just legendary stars. And so the story goes that it

901
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:28.480
was a challenge to actually get them in front of

902
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:32.440
the cameras. They both they both had it in their

903
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.400
contracts that they didn't have to be on set until

904
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.559
ten in the morning, even though like most other productions,

905
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:42.760
begin like a dawn, especially because she had two hours

906
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:47.199
of makeup to do and she did not care. So

907
00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:52.360
they arrive on set. It takes them two hours, you know,

908
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.639
around ten o'clock, two hours of makeup, hair, and wardrobe.

909
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:59.840
Now they're ready for shooting. And by the time they

910
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:03.800
were camera ready, now it's lunchtime. So they'd go off

911
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.840
for these lengthy, cocktail filled lunches and return late in

912
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:13.320
the afternoon to finally begin shooting. And when they finally

913
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.639
did come back, they'd just ignore it all and be

914
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:19.800
real nice, hey, Mike, We're sorry, we're late, you know,

915
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:22.960
but we're ready. Let's shoot. And but then they wouldn't

916
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.880
come back until like five o'clock. And they had it

917
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:27.039
in their contract that they couldn't work Peck six.

918
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.599
So they were the biggest stars in the world, you know, right.

919
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:34.199
So they'd show up, they'd get into their gear and

920
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:37.280
then go drink for four hours and come back and

921
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:40.840
like shoot for an hour and then they're dead. So

922
00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:44.880
Mike Nichols ended up being thirty days over schedule and

923
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:49.320
doubled the budget, and the studio was going to kick

924
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.079
him off the movie, but they knew if they fired him,

925
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:55.920
the Burtons would walk, so like they were hamstrung. There

926
00:53:55.920 --> 00:54:00.440
was nothing they could do, and like Richard Burton and

927
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:02.440
Elizabeth Taylor just did like whatever they wanted.

928
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:05.519
Did you read about the original cashting idea for this

929
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:07.480
movie that Warner Brothers was all gone ho for.

930
00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:10.559
I think I did, but I don't remember what was it.

931
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:16.119
They wanted Betty Davis as Martha and James Mason as George.

932
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:20.760
They were both longtime Warner Brothers stars. I mean, Mason

933
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.880
had done Starr was born, and Betty had almost her

934
00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:28.599
entire career was it Warner Brothers. And they they both

935
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:34.079
wanted this movie so bad. And Warner Brothers was like, nobody,

936
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:35.960
You're not going to play someone who's first scene as

937
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:37.519
imitating Betty Davis because.

938
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.400
That just that's a little meta.

939
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:42.559
But yeah, you know, and John Crawford and dead I

940
00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:47.440
don't think so. And yeah, and and and Mason I

941
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:51.840
think wasn't available maybe or something, but that that was

942
00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:56.239
the original thought was to go with them. And and honestly,

943
00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:01.239
I mean seeing this on paper, you would not say, oh,

944
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:05.440
the Burton Taylor's, they'd be perfect at the shrews ugly

945
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:09.480
over the hill, crazy college couple. Like they're not. They're

946
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:11.440
not a first pick except for the fact that they

947
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:15.079
have acting jobs, you know, right, But they're not. They're

948
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.199
not a good fit for this, you would think. So

949
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:19.760
if they want to like lay around all day and

950
00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:22.440
you know, have Martinez offset, I say go for it,

951
00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:24.000
because this movie was well worth it.

952
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:27.320
Yes, whatever they did, it made it happen.

953
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.239
I did want to mention it is interesting that there

954
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.920
have been so many variations and spin offs and and

955
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:35.079
spoofs of this every I mean, the Simpsons have done

956
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:39.079
a spoof of this. This It is very iconic. But

957
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:43.320
I love all all the theories about this, this play

958
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:45.320
that have gone around for years. One was said, and

959
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:48.440
I alluded to it earlier, is that it was this

960
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:53.280
deconstruction of modern American life, George and Martha being of

961
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:57.599
course George and Martha Washington, uh, the the the the

962
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.920
the parents, and the the old guard of the country,

963
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:05.639
and Nick and Honey were the next generation and and

964
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:09.199
you know, learn from the sins of the father and mother,

965
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.440
although neither were not a father or mother. And it

966
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:14.800
was just sort of So there's one interpretation. I'll Be

967
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:17.559
laughed at it and said, no, he said, actually, George

968
00:56:17.559 --> 00:56:19.519
and Martha were based on some real people he knew

969
00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:21.199
that he thought were so horrible he wanted to put

970
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:25.360
them in a play. But and then also dogging, I'll

971
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:27.480
be for most of his career because he was a

972
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:31.519
gay playwright. Was that everyone said when they in the sixties,

973
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:33.039
when they saw the play, and then later when they

974
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:35.800
saw the movie, Well, everyone knows that's not how real,

975
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:39.679
real straight couples are. It's obviously four gay guys. It's

976
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:44.360
obviously like this, like campy, over the top bitch fest,

977
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.760
two gay couples having at it, which I'll be also

978
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:52.119
thought was stupid. Is he said, Well, I wouldn't have

979
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:55.599
had like a pregnancy be one of the most important

980
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:57.679
plot points of the entire play if in fact it

981
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.360
was put to be four men, because that doesn't have happened.

982
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:05.440
But even the people harped onto the idea of George

983
00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:07.880
and Martha can't have children, so they pretend to have

984
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:09.920
a child, and well that's what two men would do,

985
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:14.239
I guess if they can't. Well, idiotic, although fun fact,

986
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:19.920
in the nineteen seventies there was going to be an

987
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:23.920
all male version of this. It was going to be

988
00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:27.880
and it got pretty dang far, and this is going

989
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:31.000
to be a stage version and then I'll be a

990
00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:32.840
state or actually he was still alive and i'll Be

991
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.519
heard about it and said, this is not happening. He

992
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:38.599
still has even though he's been dead for years. In

993
00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:42.519
his contract to do his plays, he's very specific about

994
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:44.480
you cannot do this, you cannot do that. He really

995
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:46.400
wants this thing to be thinking. But anyway, this nineteen

996
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:48.440
seventy production. It was going to go to Broadway, they

997
00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:52.000
had financing, the stars were set, everybody was ready until

998
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:55.960
the author got word of it to know. George and

999
00:57:56.000 --> 00:58:00.000
Martha were going to be once again Richard Burton opposite

1000
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.400
Henry Fonda, and the young couple was going to be

1001
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:09.039
Warren Beatty and John Voight. Warren Beatty was going to

1002
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:13.440
be uh Nick, and John Voight was going to be Honey.

1003
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:17.000
They were all for it. It was actually Henry Fonda's idea.

1004
00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:21.679
They were gonna just and allb was just like, this

1005
00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:25.119
is not happening because my characters are not all men,

1006
00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:26.719
two of them are women, two of them are men.

1007
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:29.519
And in fact, to this day there has not been

1008
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:34.159
an authorized legit production of this with anything except two

1009
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.599
men and two women playing our four characters. But I

1010
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:39.880
thought that was kind of fascinating. But and I love

1011
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:46.000
all the different interpretations of what this play is really about.

1012
00:58:46.039 --> 00:58:48.880
What was really about the decline of America. It's really

1013
00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:52.760
about gay couples and how they get bitter they don't

1014
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:56.320
have kids or whatever. Yeah, frankly from a gay man,

1015
00:58:56.719 --> 00:58:58.440
blessing no kid, just saying.

1016
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:01.880
Anyway, the saren well.

1017
00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:06.039
God knows today especially but anyway, Yeah, but but no,

1018
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:08.079
that's really about all I've got for that. Although, and

1019
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.239
then one of the fun fact about the play itself,

1020
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:13.000
because the movie got all the Oscars and all the

1021
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.480
acclaim it was the first film to have the entire

1022
00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:19.679
cast nominated. One of our other favorite Sleuth, also falls

1023
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.199
into that category. And do you know what the third

1024
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:24.079
one is? There's only been three in film.

1025
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:25.800
History to have the whole cast.

1026
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:27.599
Yeah, the whole cast nominated.

1027
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.119
No, I'm always stuck on you know, there's the movies

1028
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:36.159
that got like the top five pictures screen Yeah, played director,

1029
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:38.199
So no, I don't know what the other one is.

1030
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:40.639
Yeah, the third one's kind of idiotic because it was

1031
00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:43.360
a filmed like thing, but it was in theaters. Give

1032
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.000
them hell Harry, which I think it was James Whitmore,

1033
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:48.280
one of those actors playing Harry Truman in a one

1034
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.320
man show that they turned into a movie. So but

1035
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:55.119
but yeah, this one all four. But this play was

1036
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:59.360
up for a Politzer Prize nomination and was going to

1037
00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:03.199
receive it, but the political committee was like, ew, it's

1038
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:06.679
just so nasty and ugly and they say bad words. No,

1039
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:10.039
so they did not give an award for drama that year.

1040
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:12.159
Even though the committee had said, this is who we

1041
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:15.639
vote for, this is the best play. The Politic Advisory

1042
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.519
Committee said, We're just not going to have an award

1043
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:19.679
this year. I'll be showed them. Though he got three

1044
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:22.960
more in his lifetime than for three later plays, like

1045
01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:26.400
one every decade as long as he was around. But no,

1046
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.039
I think that that's oh I got I could I could,

1047
01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:30.639
you know, quote this movie all night long.

1048
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:37.159
But on home, let's discuss some noteworthy scenes now. I

1049
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:41.119
have what I think is the pivotal moment. I've am

1050
01:00:41.159 --> 01:00:44.599
pretty sure that we'll agree on that. Were there any

1051
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:45.719
noteworthy scenes?

1052
01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:45.920
Now?

1053
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:50.679
We talked about the opening, which is just opening.

1054
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.519
And the closing are just also brilliant, And I kind

1055
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:55.440
of touched on that too, with that great master shot

1056
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:59.159
and everybody just kind of taking your breath and winding down.

1057
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.880
But then I love that final bit with George and

1058
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:06.960
Martha and and just it's it's so great because he

1059
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:10.559
just there's she's sitting there, he's standing with her, he

1060
01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:13.239
has his hand on her shoulders, very affectionate and very

1061
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:19.679
kind and just watching her just grapple and try to

1062
01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:22.920
understand and figure it out. There's that he heartbreaking moment

1063
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:27.119
uh where she says, well, maybe we could and he's

1064
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.800
like no, and it's like the idea of you know,

1065
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:35.320
keeping going with the sun, and just it's so devastating

1066
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.760
and and and the camera just keeps getting closer slower

1067
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:41.599
and slower, and then the horrible music, by the way,

1068
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.079
the score by Alex North, the only part of the

1069
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:45.079
movie I cannot stand.

1070
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:47.840
Well, it's only there for like a minute in the

1071
01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:49.159
beginning and a minute at the end.

1072
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:52.440
Yeah, but it's to suffer too minutes. Yeah, thank goodness.

1073
01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:56.400
But anyway, if we magnet John Williams got his hand on,

1074
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:59.320
this would be like Marca's theme and you know, anyway, no,

1075
01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:05.119
but then the final yes, this final shot of the

1076
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.760
two of them just kind of reconnecting, and the camera

1077
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:10.519
just keeps pushing in and pushing in and finally just

1078
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:13.639
stops with the two of them kind of clutching each

1079
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:17.880
other's hands, and then it just says the end. And

1080
01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:20.199
just such a great way. I mean, it starts off

1081
01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:23.840
very light and comic with her Betty Davis impersonation and

1082
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:27.239
the the fuddle husband only half listening, and it's very

1083
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:29.880
joky and funny. Then we're like taking for this two

1084
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:34.039
hour nightmare ride, and then it ends on this really loving,

1085
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:40.159
like earned moment that that is not expected from where

1086
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:43.559
we started and certainly not expected from anywhere we thought

1087
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:45.440
we were in the middle of the movie to end

1088
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:45.800
up well.

1089
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:50.400
And I feel like it also leaves you where at

1090
01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:56.800
the beginning you could probably project where you where they're

1091
01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:00.199
going to be tomorrow, yeah, you know, but by the

1092
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:03.880
end of it, they're not in the same place, and

1093
01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:06.400
you're left wondering, like, where are they going to be tomorrow?

1094
01:03:06.519 --> 01:03:09.480
Like what the hell happens after they go to bed?

1095
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:11.159
Like yeah, you know?

1096
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:13.719
And I think that's interesting that you don't. You thought

1097
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.639
you knew at the beginning, but you don't.

1098
01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:18.559
I get this vibe that there's going to be like

1099
01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:21.199
one of those episodes of you know, Twilight Zone or

1100
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:24.360
Night Gallery or whatever, where the next day is going

1101
01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:27.079
to start and they're going to like have some drinks

1102
01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:32.000
and it's going to all start over, you know, you know,

1103
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:33.960
because they're like they're in this like time loop or

1104
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:36.079
something where they're just going to be like, there was

1105
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:39.159
no last night. Meanwhile, how's our side? Oh did you

1106
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.039
you did today? You know? And I don't know but

1107
01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:43.079
but it is, Uh.

1108
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:46.320
Well, so then we've kind of talked around it. But

1109
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:49.159
let's talk about the pivotal moment.

1110
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:53.119
When you called the pivotal moment, well, now I'm not sure.

1111
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:59.079
Because I thought it was and I still kind of

1112
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:03.360
think it is. The expression on Richard Burton's face when

1113
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:08.079
George learns that Martha told honey they have a son. Yeah,

1114
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:11.800
because the rule is you can't talk about him. But

1115
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:15.920
then I think right, But then I think I'm wrong,

1116
01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:19.599
And it's actually when you find out that he doesn't

1117
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:20.239
exist at all.

1118
01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:25.559
Well, yeah, I think I think you're right about this.

1119
01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:30.360
You might be more right because the movie ultimately is

1120
01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:35.360
about relationships. It's about the relationship between George and Martha,

1121
01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:39.960
as dysfunctional as it is, and mentioning the son, although

1122
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:43.920
breaking a rule, it's not this does not give you

1123
01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:47.760
as much insight into the relationship as there is no

1124
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:52.239
damn son. I mean, I don't get emotional every time,

1125
01:04:53.199 --> 01:04:56.320
and it's not subtle. But when when George Siegel is going,

1126
01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:00.719
I think I understand, Oh my god, I think I understand.

1127
01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:02.920
If you're the only person in the audience who isn't

1128
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.079
caught up yet at that point, it did. It's heartbreaking,

1129
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.719
it's so horrible. But what's interesting about that? So I

1130
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:14.840
think it is not that I think it's a catalyst

1131
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:17.199
for the future action because once he finds out that

1132
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:19.760
Martha has broken the rule, he can break all the rules.

1133
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:22.400
But I think I think it did for the audience,

1134
01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:25.559
it's revealed there was no son. But what's interesting about

1135
01:05:25.559 --> 01:05:31.159
this this play is that this movie is that there's

1136
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:36.719
all kinds of lies and misinformation, Like, was Honey ever pregnant?

1137
01:05:37.719 --> 01:05:39.800
Does she want kids? Or does she not want kids?

1138
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.559
Right? And she has this quote hysterical pregnancy. Well, did

1139
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:48.079
she just basically tell Nick that, oh, I'm pregnant, now

1140
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:51.320
you have to marry me and she like knew or

1141
01:05:51.760 --> 01:05:54.159
did she actually think she would just so?

1142
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:56.559
Well like they talk about her gaining weight, and I'm like, well,

1143
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:59.760
did she just put on the freshman fifteen? And everybody's

1144
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:01.840
there's this whole?

1145
01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:05.719
And then was it deliberate? Was it not deliberate once

1146
01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:10.320
she happened? If it was, did she and invertuately she

1147
01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:14.639
you know, wasn't planned? Did she did ensnare him with it? Anyway?

1148
01:06:14.679 --> 01:06:16.400
I mean, so there's that whole. Then there's the whole

1149
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:21.280
mystery of did George kill his parents or not, Like

1150
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:24.320
we don't really ever know if that ever happens. This

1151
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:28.159
whole movie, like everybody is just lying out their ass

1152
01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:32.880
about everything, and so there's there's this whole thing, and

1153
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:35.880
then of course you have all this subtext of he's

1154
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:38.239
in the math department, he's not in the math, he's

1155
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:41.960
in the math department. And then when finally when Nick says, well,

1156
01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:43.639
I'm not in the math department, I'm in the science

1157
01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:46.800
department or biology department, and she says, are you sure?

1158
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:54.000
Like the whole the whole thing is just everybody's the

1159
01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:57.360
things they say, they're just all untethered from reality. It's

1160
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:01.840
like and it's like, is it deliberate? Is it coping mechanisms?

1161
01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:06.199
Are they all just pathological? So so the Sun Reveal

1162
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.960
ought to be even more shocking than it is, or

1163
01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.559
maybe I mean to say less but less shocking. But

1164
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:16.440
but because everything they said all night, you don't know

1165
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.840
what's real and what isn't real, because they just say crap,

1166
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:22.960
and and they they will defend to their death that

1167
01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:25.119
he is in the math department even if he isn't.

1168
01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:29.000
And even then they're like, and so these are four

1169
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:32.400
people who don't have a very good grip on reality

1170
01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.400
or just don't want to, and so so the sun

1171
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:39.480
reveal It's it's sort of inevitable. But it is not

1172
01:07:39.559 --> 01:07:44.840
the only lie or half truth or or illusion that

1173
01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:47.840
we've heard during the evening, because it's been all full

1174
01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:52.320
of just crazy stories and things that may or may

1175
01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:55.480
not be true. So it's just kind of the biggest

1176
01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:58.480
one for sure. But yes, so so I'm gonna say

1177
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:02.960
pivotal moment when we ought realize and sequel that it

1178
01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:06.559
is a fictitious child. That is, it's like when the

1179
01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:08.519
rugs pulled out from you and you're like what am

1180
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:09.480
I watching? Then?

1181
01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:14.599
Like what is what has actually been happening this whole time? Yeah,

1182
01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:17.039
all right, we are going to take one more break

1183
01:08:17.079 --> 01:08:21.920
and then we'll come back to wrap things up. So

1184
01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:26.159
Robert I absolutely adore My Nichols. I think he's just

1185
01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:31.760
a genius. If someone was unfamiliar with this director, which

1186
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:34.560
three films would you suggest that they watch?

1187
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:39.399
This was such a tough question. But the thing about

1188
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:44.640
Nichols is looking over his filmography, he was so of

1189
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:48.000
his time. Do you do you want all three at once?

1190
01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:54.039
Or you want tick turns. Okay, I will start with probably, uh,

1191
01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:57.840
what would be my number three? We'll do this county

1192
01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:01.680
backwards style Angels in THEA from two thousand and three.

1193
01:09:01.720 --> 01:09:04.199
It was for television, it was on HBO, but it

1194
01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:07.119
was six hours long, so I counted as a movie

1195
01:09:07.159 --> 01:09:10.600
and he did direct it. And again another adaptation of

1196
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:13.319
a play, or actually in this case two plays, Tony

1197
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:17.239
Kushner's Politzer Prize winning plays about the AIDS crisis, and

1198
01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:24.079
so much more. Like every Nichols film, chocola block with big, big,

1199
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:26.880
big name actors doing amazing work. I mean, this one

1200
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:30.159
had Meryl Streep and al Pacino and a host of

1201
01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:32.680
other people. Emma Emma Thompson was in it as well.

1202
01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:37.199
It is brilliant, it is dramatic, It has so much

1203
01:09:37.199 --> 01:09:41.439
to say because the Kushner script, and it really definitely

1204
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:45.600
sums up the whole AIDS crisis of that era and

1205
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:49.479
the reality of what was going on. And again another

1206
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:53.680
case where he took a very stagey, stagey play with

1207
01:09:53.800 --> 01:09:58.279
angels appearing and hallucinations and things and made this brilliant,

1208
01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:03.199
brilliant heartbreak film of it. So Angels in America would

1209
01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:03.960
be my number three.

1210
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:06.520
That's why it didn't make my list because I don't

1211
01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:08.359
have enough tissues to ever watch it again.

1212
01:10:08.800 --> 01:10:11.000
Don't don't start with that one because it is a

1213
01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:13.800
lot from one thing in six hours long. But but

1214
01:10:14.199 --> 01:10:18.880
and so then my number two is it's a personal

1215
01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:20.560
favorite and it's delightful in a lot of ways. On

1216
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:26.960
Postcards from the Edge, super accessible and funny again. Meryl

1217
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:35.479
streep uh and Shirley mcclaim her lifetime twirled up. I

1218
01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:37.399
want to attatoo and says it twirled up.

1219
01:10:37.439 --> 01:10:41.600
But I love it when she says that she's be

1220
01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:44.720
sure to put my eyebrows on before I get buried.

1221
01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:46.760
I don't go in the ground without them.

1222
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:49.239
I wonder if Mike Nicholas put that line in being

1223
01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:53.600
as how he anyway, No, but uh, it's super accessible.

1224
01:10:53.680 --> 01:10:56.960
Gene Hackman is in it briefly. He is hilarious, so

1225
01:10:57.039 --> 01:10:59.760
beautiful and of course it was baked on the book

1226
01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:03.279
by really missed Carrie Fisher, who we just adore. Yes,

1227
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:08.119
and so much great about this movie. An incredible Nichols

1228
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:11.199
is a good introduction to Nichols has one of his

1229
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:14.239
amazing opening tracking shots. He was known for his like

1230
01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:17.960
long tracking shot The bird Cage has one that took

1231
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:20.520
three different cameras where they fly in over the water

1232
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.600
and outside of Miami Beach and then it goes through

1233
01:11:22.680 --> 01:11:24.359
the crowd and then they go into the club and

1234
01:11:24.399 --> 01:11:26.720
it's like, yeah, well the post trids from the edge.

1235
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:28.920
I forget how long it is. It's like seven minutes

1236
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:32.640
or something. It's like this ridiculous, endless, lengthy tracking shot.

1237
01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:35.159
Then the punchline is it gets screwed up at the end,

1238
01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:39.560
and Hackman's like, tat you fucking do it again? So

1239
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:41.840
he was kind of even mocking his own film excesses.

1240
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:45.319
But a great love letter to movie making and also

1241
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:49.119
the mother daughter story and one of my favorites in

1242
01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:51.600
all all ways. But definitely a good, a good Mike

1243
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:55.560
Nichols movie. And then finally for my number one. Much

1244
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.319
as I love this movie, it is is you know, Amber,

1245
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:01.960
It's a tough nut to crack. I advocated as being

1246
01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:05.479
one of my favorite movies always and everybody should see it.

1247
01:12:05.479 --> 01:12:10.319
But I'm gonna run with the graduate, which was super obvious.

1248
01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:13.520
It was his next movie after this one. Between the

1249
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:20.239
two movies, they got twenty Academy Award nominations. Whatever, even

1250
01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.119
though it is so set in the nineteen sixties and

1251
01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:26.159
that whole time period and that whole you know plastic

1252
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:30.920
U you know one, yeah, plastic mindset. It introduced the

1253
01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:35.920
unknown Dustin Hoffman and another great cast, another great script

1254
01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:39.439
the time by Buck Henry and very funny and again

1255
01:12:39.680 --> 01:12:44.640
very very accessible, but very much Mike Nichols movie, with

1256
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:48.279
the same kind of ambivalence about some things and the

1257
01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:51.359
same kind of sharp satire that almost goes too far,

1258
01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:54.439
but it's still totally believable. So I'm gonna say, Graduate,

1259
01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:56.760
Postcards and Angels in America.

1260
01:12:57.039 --> 01:13:01.159
All right, that is a great less Now I still

1261
01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:07.199
stand by my choices from our episode on Mike Nichols

1262
01:13:07.279 --> 01:13:10.479
movie Wolf. But I get to make another list because

1263
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:11.680
this is my show.

1264
01:13:12.319 --> 01:13:15.159
So what was the same list or different?

1265
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:21.000
It's it's different. I can't remember. I'll I'll listen to it,

1266
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:23.600
and I know that one is the same because I

1267
01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:29.079
can't not have it. So but to this list, I

1268
01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:32.640
have changed a couple around. Uh. From two thousand and one,

1269
01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:36.800
Emma Thompson kind of became his muse for a little while,

1270
01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:41.319
and they did a movie called Wit based on the

1271
01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:43.960
play by Margaret Edson, and it's the story of a

1272
01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:49.279
professor who reevaluates her life after being diagnosed with terminal cancer.

1273
01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:54.359
And it's almost like a one woman play. There are

1274
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:58.960
other characters, but it's really Emma Thompson's show, and it's

1275
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:03.640
devas statingly beautiful and she's just amazing.

1276
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:06.159
She co wrote it, adapted it.

1277
01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:09.279
I guess I should say yeah. From the play, and

1278
01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:14.359
then from nineteen eighty six, the movie Heartburn, starring Meryl

1279
01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:18.000
Streep and Jack Nicholson, based on the book by Nora Efron,

1280
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:22.199
telling the story of her marriage to Carl Bernstein. And

1281
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:27.119
I just love Meryl and Jack in this movie, like

1282
01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:34.479
they are just spectacular, spectacular and the movie is just

1283
01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:38.600
so funny, and it, you know, is an early example

1284
01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:41.439
of why we all fell in love with Nora Efron.

1285
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:46.439
And then the same movie, of course, my all time

1286
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:52.279
favorite movie ever, Working Girl is I can't not have it.

1287
01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:55.479
On any list, Like only why I left it off

1288
01:14:55.479 --> 01:14:56.960
my list because.

1289
01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:01.840
You know, I quote it endlessly. I mean, I'll just

1290
01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:05.000
burst out six thousand dollars. It's not even.

1291
01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:08.119
Leather now I have I have to kind of junk

1292
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:13.960
Cusack and Sigourney Weaver, everybody. It was just amazing. The

1293
01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:18.479
the line where Sigourney Weaver's character says, spray me down Pet.

1294
01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:20.840
Is that in the movie or is that just in

1295
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:21.359
the trailer?

1296
01:15:21.600 --> 01:15:22.880
That's just a tailor.

1297
01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:26.760
That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah, because I remember I

1298
01:15:28.039 --> 01:15:30.319
saw the movie enjoyed it tremendously, but I had seen

1299
01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:32.520
the tailor like ten times, and Sigourney Weaver slays me,

1300
01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:35.279
and she like walks up and wants, I guess some

1301
01:15:35.359 --> 01:15:38.199
kind of perfume or something. He says like, spray me

1302
01:15:38.239 --> 01:15:42.000
down pet to poor little Melanie Griffiths. And when I

1303
01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.279
sat and watched the movie, I was like, where's my line?

1304
01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:46.640
Where?

1305
01:15:47.279 --> 01:15:49.239
But then and then, of course over the years, I

1306
01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:50.920
kind of had forgotten whether it was in the movie.

1307
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:54.000
Movie Okay, yes, I was kind of picked that one too,

1308
01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:56.840
because it's one of my favorite Mike Nichols movies and

1309
01:15:56.880 --> 01:15:58.960
also one and probably probably not my top ten, but

1310
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:03.640
probably my top hundred, and so much great about the movie.

1311
01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:05.319
I knew that I knew you were going to pick it.

1312
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:07.359
Yeah, I was like, oh, and I love This was

1313
01:16:07.399 --> 01:16:12.479
the first time I remember seeing Harrison Ford kind of

1314
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:17.000
playing well, honestly playing a character that is probably more

1315
01:16:17.039 --> 01:16:18.800
like who he is in real life, where he's kind

1316
01:16:18.800 --> 01:16:22.399
of like this nerdy, kind of schlubby guy. He gets like,

1317
01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:27.000
you know, mayonnaise on his chin when he's eating you know,

1318
01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:31.159
his peta, and you know he's kind of dorky, but

1319
01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:37.119
like he's a good guy. And that was amazing to see.

1320
01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:41.039
You know, Han Solo and Indiana Jones like be just

1321
01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:44.079
this kind of nerdy Wall Street guy. All right, let's

1322
01:16:44.119 --> 01:16:46.880
go back to uh, Who's Afraid of Virginia? Wolf? Do

1323
01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:52.720
we recommend seeing this film? So I'm gonna say, if

1324
01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:55.800
you want to see the most amazing performances by Elizabeth

1325
01:16:55.840 --> 01:16:58.840
Taylor and Richard Burton and you want to know, like

1326
01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.439
what is the US all about? With these two, like,

1327
01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:06.119
definitely watch this movie. But I honestly I will never

1328
01:17:06.279 --> 01:17:09.880
probably ever watch it again. You know, they did an

1329
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:14.640
episode of the Office. You talked about different adaptations. There's

1330
01:17:14.840 --> 01:17:18.119
an episode of the Office called Dinner Party, and it's

1331
01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:22.359
exactly this movie only half an hour instead of you know,

1332
01:17:22.439 --> 01:17:26.000
two and a half hours. And I literally skip that

1333
01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:29.640
episode because it makes my skin crawl and it makes me,

1334
01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:33.880
tell me, you hurt. So, you know, if you don't

1335
01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:36.800
have the two and a half hours to watch this movie,

1336
01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:43.479
watch the episode of dinner party and you'll know everything

1337
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:45.439
you need to know. But if you want to give

1338
01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:47.840
it a shot, it is available to rent on Prime.

1339
01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:53.000
It is free on Canopy with O K. Robert. I

1340
01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:55.319
have a feeling you're gonna highly recommend this.

1341
01:17:55.800 --> 01:18:00.359
Well, I'm it's gonna rebut your thing about don't watch

1342
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:04.760
the Office episode because it does not have Edward Albi's language.

1343
01:18:05.079 --> 01:18:09.079
His language is amazing, and his his it's amazing, and

1344
01:18:09.159 --> 01:18:11.880
it did not have Mike Nichols direction, to say nothing

1345
01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:13.319
of the performances. I mean the performance.

1346
01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:15.439
I mean, if you want to watch an uncomfortable dinner

1347
01:18:15.479 --> 01:18:18.359
party where people like want to crawl out the bathroom

1348
01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:19.760
window to escape, then.

1349
01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:23.560
Yeah for me, Yeah for me. For me that this

1350
01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:25.920
is more than some of its parts. I think this

1351
01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:28.439
is not not a movie about an uncomfortable dinner party.

1352
01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:31.720
This is just like artistry all the way. I I

1353
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:36.319
love it tremendously. I would not just wholesale recommend it

1354
01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:38.319
to everybody, though, because it is it is a lot

1355
01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:42.880
unique and uh, I mean I have friends who are

1356
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:44.960
younger than me who will not watch black and white

1357
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:46.840
movies because they're weird and.

1358
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.399
They're old, and it's like, oh my hea't anyway.

1359
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.399
Whatever, Yeah, I know anyway, but but I would so

1360
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:54.720
I would say it's a qualified recommend. If you are

1361
01:18:54.840 --> 01:18:57.359
in for a challenge, if you like really great filmmaking,

1362
01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:02.439
if you like, you know, complicated storytelling and great acting,

1363
01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:06.199
jump in. But if you're more of a popcorn movie person,

1364
01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:09.720
pass this movie up and enjoy what you want to

1365
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:11.520
see well a lot.

1366
01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:14.880
All right, listeners, what do you think of Who's Afraid

1367
01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:18.079
of Virginia Wolf? Have you seen it? Did we get

1368
01:19:18.119 --> 01:19:20.840
this one right? Did we get this one wrong? Let

1369
01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:24.199
us know on social media. We are on Facebook, Instagram,

1370
01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:28.399
and x Check out a Film by Podcast dot com

1371
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:32.800
for film and TV articles and our entire library of

1372
01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:36.520
episodes streaming free. Write to us at a film by

1373
01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:41.039
Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns.

1374
01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:43.600
We may just read your response on the show and

1375
01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:47.399
send you some of film by swag. Robert thank you

1376
01:19:47.640 --> 01:19:51.239
as always for your insight. We love having you on

1377
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:54.319
the show, and you can also find Robert and his

1378
01:19:54.760 --> 01:19:57.960
husband Stephen at area festivals with their Mayrow and Co

1379
01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:01.840
dog treats, which are also now available at Jungle gyms.

1380
01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:04.560
And to all of you listening to the show, following

1381
01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:07.840
us on social media, and subscribing to our Patreon.

1382
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:09.119
We thank you.