Phasers Set To Stun: recapping Discovery: Red Directive and Under the Twin Moons

0:04 Space the final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage in debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phasers Set to Stune, where we continue to show our love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of Trek by covering television, animation, movies, directors, and more. Plotting the course, as always is your Core Trek crew. I'm David Burns, I'm sco Hoffan, and I'm Wayne Whiten. Well, gentlemen, it's time to shift some gears from our discussions of Starter Trek and move into a new quadrant, a new century, the thirty second century to be exact, with Star Trek Discovery Season five. The final season looks like During the season, our crew in Discovery is trying to find a mysterious power that has been hidden for centuries.

1:21 But before we start discussing our first two episodes of the season, let's talk a little bit about how things ended in season four, Wayne, what can you give us? I can give you a little recap on it. When a new phenomenon suddenly appears and destroys an entire solar system, it becomes clear that a grave new threat to the galaxy and a mystery that confounds even thirty second century scientists, the dark Matter anomaly. Michael Burnham has been promoted to captain of the US's Discovery, which is sent to investigate the anomaly and discover that has been artificially created by a race labeled unknown species ten C. Flying past the Great Barrier at the edge of our galaxy with hope sub making first contact and a peaceful negotiation, their chances are hindered when a scientist named Tarka unleashes a weapon to destroy the ten C and the DMA. But Burnham and Discovery we're able to stop Tarka and make peace with the ten C, and then the end Earth finally decides to rejoin the Federation. All right, well, thank you for that, Wayne. So in this one, we like we said, we're starting season five of Discovery, the final season that they made the announcement a while back. We're gonna be talking about the first two episodes which they gave us Red Directive, and they gave us Under the Twin Moons, and we're gonna start working for those Black Alert spoilers ahead, So if you haven't seen these episodes, please stop and go view them and come back to join us. All right, let's talk about our first episode,

2:52 guys, Red Directive, Wayne, can you give us a summary? Yeah, the USS Discovery is sent on a top secret Red Directive pride Already mission to recover an item from an eight hundred year old romulent science vessel down on the edge of the Beta Quadrant. But after two scavengers locate and steal the item out from underneath them, the Discovery crew find themselves embarking on a wild chase across the galaxy to uncover a mystery linked to Starfleet's past and the creation of all life itself. Well, guys, we are in the midst of Discovery starting a new season. A few things I noticed right away with this episode. The cgi'spatial effects are amazing. I'm not going to argue that we are top notch motion picture quality, absolutely, but for me, the humor that they had in this episode felt very flat and forced. It's like they were trying too hard? Was that just me? Did you guys catch that?

3:53 No, it was the quippiness of it. You know, it felt like it was moments where it shouldn't have really happened, Like it felt like using those kind of lines and in situations like a you know, oh I'm gonna feel that one or something like that, it just seemed like a little too light. And now that there's not a place for some humor, but it just felt out of place and it kind of took me out of the moment. I absolutely agree the cinematic quality the special effects is doing a lot to raise the bar for Star Trek and acknowledging that. You know, when Star Trek Discovery came onto Paramount Plus, it was the first taste of Star Trek we had had in a while. And I think consistently it's the production quality is upping the game and we're benefiting from that with things like Strange New Worlds. And I kind of liked to see it behind the scenes feature I think from the ready room that talked about their version of the volume from the Lucasfilm camp or there in the Star Wars territory that they're calling their version of the volume of the Holidack like it's kind of a clever nod. But yeah, that's why it's kind of disappointing to have little moments of levity and those quips and the dialogue to take me out of it, and it just it

5:24 was little seeds of disappointment, I guess for me. Yeah, it took me a little bit to get into this, the story of this episode, I guess, just like you were saying, you know, someone that was taking me out of the episode. But the biggest one for me was having Burnham on the top of this ship as it's going warp speed. Yeah, okay, it didn't work for me at all. There's two parts of that for me. One is the plausibility of somebody doing that. And I know there's a lot of new tech and you know, there's a lot of advancements out there in the future, but without seeing how we incrementally get there, it still seems implausible. It just seems like something that it's a bit far fetched. Yeah, I agree with you there, And you know, you hit a lot of the problems right on the head there, because you know, there is an eight hundred year jump and we have to see a lot of technology that we've never seen before. But there's no there's no explanations to it. They just the writers, the producers just expect us to accept it.

6:28 You know, this is the way it is. And on some of it's okay, some of it's pretty hard. I agree with this one. That was really hard to accept. Yeah, especially as an opening scene. Yeah, right, exactly, like it kind of sets the tone for the rest of what we're going to expect. And there was a definite tone shift when we went to four days earlier or whatever that was, and then it seemed like the tone was getting back into it. But starting off on that it was the wrong foot for me. Yeah. The one thing that I'll give them kudos for is after that happens, when she's floating in space and she's twisting around and the cameras twisting with her she's floating through. I thought that was fantastic. There's another TV show called The Expanse. They did an incredible job with that, with that kind of camera work, and I felt they did it. They capture that here in Star Trek. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I personally liked this episode. I thought it was a good start for the season.

7:25 You know, it definitely has the stakes for the beginning of a good season story, you know, and we'll just have to see where the writers take it. But you know, I'll be the first to admit that I've been really burned by the last two years the show, especially the third season, which I love the idea of them jumped to thirty second century. I love the idea of of of you know, exploring something that we've never seen before and all the chances that it brings. And it was a great season, but just fell flat at the ending. It was one of the worst endings in my opinion, you know, for Star Trek for a season. And and that's what really is going to matter here to me. It's how they conclude this story. You know. Will it be satisfying, you know and exciting or is it going to be underwhelming and disappointing like I had before?

8:16 You know. But we're we're all here for the wild ride, and we'll just have to see where it takes us. You know, what do you guys think about the new the two new characters, Moll and Lack. I mean, they're they're interesting. I mean, we don't know too much about them yet other than what we learned in the second episode. We'll talk about that later, but they're interesting characters and you know, we'll see I think one of the things that piqued my interest with the two of them, it was interesting there their outfit in the beginning, it kind of looked like, you know, it was out of tron legacy or something like that. But when they both kind of lost the helmets, Mauls goes off pretty cleanly, but then Lot it almost seemed like his face was going through some kind of shifting there with it, and I didn't know if it was something that had to do with, you know, his head doesn't fit in the helmet the right way, or if he's from some kind of species where there's a little bit of malleability to him. At first, I was thinking maybe it's like a changeling kind of descendant or something like that. But we'll see what happens.

9:22 So at least there's a little bit of mystery and intrigue, and like you said, when anytime they explore something new, it's very interesting. The first two seasons really had me, you know, happy about the direction of Trek, especially with the Kelpians and Saru. I think he was an amazing character, making some great headway with a lot of the characters on here. But yeah, you said it perfectly. The past two seasons just seemed a little bit far fetched, and I've got to say a lot focused on Michael Or who I think is a very strong character. I think is a very strong captain, no doubt about it. It just seems odd that Michael is at the crux and the forefront of practically ever mission. It seems like I'm not really seeing other characters. If it was another character righting the back of that ship, I would think it was a little bit more interesting because we'd get a little bit more out of that character. We've had so much focus on Michael. I feel like we've developed that character quite a bit, and we've been talking about next Generation for seven episodes, and I don't think it feels like in a lot of those episodes there's a question about whether Picard should be off the bridge, if the captain should be off the bridge doing all these things, and it seems like Michael is a lot more active and involved

10:52 in missions than we've seen before. It seems like that wouldn't really be something they'd want to do again. You hit it right on the head. With this series, it's they they have a real problem with a lot of their character development. You know, there are quite a few characters that we've seen since the first season that they really have not They've they've sorely under used. These characters. We hardly have seen or know anything about them. You know. We know they don't have to do it this way because we saw you know, Strange New Worlds in which you know, had an episode about each one of them. They you know, by the end of season two, we knew all the characters very well. But here there are so characters that we just are very unfamiliar with. And I you know, I know they have shorter season, especially this season now it's it's been shorter by by three episodes, but you still have to to, you know, let us have a chance to feel for these characters, and that I don't have that.

11:50 I've never had that with this series. I just they just don't feel like a coherent crew, you know, one that I could actually you know, invest my time and my love for. Yeah, yeah, particularly the Bridge crew. I mean like Ooshakun, for example. There aren't many characters other than her that I'm really seeing like where their progression would be, whereas on some other shows, you would you would be able to understand, you know, who might be in the running for the number one position, right you know. Yeah, and that's when I didn't really know who would succeed Saru because I haven't really seen that many other people from the crew or from the bridge crew developed. Yeah, so it became a big question mark. But no, I completely agree with you. I did, like, like I said, going back to some of the special effects, when they went to the new planet and they had to do the bikes, they had to you know, race off on those, I thought that was incredibly well done, using the two ships shields and stuff to basically block the avalanche to save the people. All the special effects were pretty pretty good, you know, some of maybe a little bit over the top, but I thought all of was fantastic. The only thing they didn't like there was the that three shot they did. Yes, I was not a big fan of that one all you You know what that reminded me of? That reminded me of ang Lee's Hawk.

13:16 Are you reading my notes able to see them? Because that's exactly where I went to It's not even like the you know, the juxtapositions in the three faces. That'd be one thing, but the way they kind of came on one at a time, Yeah, exactly. It was. It was Anglee trying to kind of panel this out like it was a comic book, and it just yeah, it seemed really really strange. It did, and it pulled me out of it, just as you mentioned before. And another thing that pulled me out of the episode that one did too, And I'm like, I kind of cruised a little bit. I'm like, uh, that doesn't work right there, and you know, you're you're right. The FX was incredible, especially those final scenes, but I'm not I'm not entirely convinced you're sure about these ships crashing their sausage sections into the ground. Cis that it might have been a little bit too far from you. You know, can ship like Discovery, you know, not only survive but you know, still remade at usable ship after it's impacted on the ground and the crew inside. That's those must be one hell of stabilizers, you know, get here you keep them from from flying in splashing up against the bulkheads. It looked great, though, I mean it was. It was an It was a unique I've got to give him this, It was a very unique way of doing it. We have solving the problem, and at least they kind of account for in the next episode where they're cleaning dust off of the ships and all they're looking at they're looking at to clean their own blood off the ship, right right, exactly. Yeah, definitely an odd situation though,

14:48 for sure. Did we have thoughts on Fred, Yeah, we do. Please Wayne enlighten us as well. Fred is uh Data's unwanted brother. I guess I don't know, you know, the brother he wishes he never had. I'm not sure. It's just because how's that. Was there any point of making him that, making him that injured, I don't see the point of that there was. It had nothing to do with the storyline. Nothing. I don't know about making him that. I know. The reason they made him DROI so that they could he could record the book, so that they could see what was in that book. But in order but other than that, no, there was no you know, there was no reasons there was, you know, for making connection other than the fact, Oh, let's that sounds cool, let's do that. Yeah, it seemed like there were a lot of points where it was kind of like, we're gonna spice up this recipe with a couple of dashes of the next generation. We're gonna have a big plot thread for the chase. We're gonna poss up Captain Picard's image, which doesn't mean anything to Discovery because they skipped over all that or as far as you know. And then Fred. Yeah, the mention of Fred's name was another thing that just took me out where it was kind of like, okay, we'll just accept that it's Fred, just one name like Prince. That's fine, and that's okay. But it was just a little

16:19 bit of quirkiness that I was like, oh, it feels like a quip, just like data. That thing he looked just like data, and you know, if he was built by Alton. Soon they soon had moved past that. You know, look think of the body that he gave data, the real data you know in Star Trek, the card. He's moved past this this type that Nooni and Solim had designed. And so there was I don't understand why he looked like that. It seemed like kind of a shame because you know, I know there's opinions that split on Picard season one. I thought it was fantastic and I think it's interesting the advancements in synth that they had made at that point. So I would have expected a threadlike character to look more like an advanced synth. That's beyond that. I think it would have been much more interesting to see him revealed as a synth. And then maybe it gives an opportunity to say, like, you know, what has happened to the synth planet that we left at the beginning of Picard season one. You know, there are a lot of contention around synth rights and all this other kind of stuff, and they have that technology because we saw that in season four, the the or the character's name, but the trail that was put into one of the bodies that was like that, just like the Card's new bodies, So we know that that technology still exists. Yeah,

17:49 it does an odd odd choice, odd choice for sure of an odd choice. Yeah, Well, any characters that you felt shined the most in this episode, Scott, So the the two characters that I was happiest to see one was Tilly because I think her her character, especially in the first two seasons, was great. I was captivated by the idea. We had some continuations from you know, themes we've seen in lower decks, really cheering for Tilly, and I'm glad that Billy has found a place at the Academy and that it's not going to change. It's not like, well coming back now, Nope, happy with where we are, let's stay there. But the character that shine the most I thought was doctor Hugh Culbert. Okay, I think doctor Culbert does a consistently great job. I think that's a character that has been fleshed out very, very well, especially the after death experience.

18:57 I thought that was fascinating. But Hugh's demeanor, tone, approach to the entire situation, even though it had you know, interactions with Fred, seemed like one of the coolest and collected members of the crew and somebody who was like, I genuinely want to hear more about doctor Colbert, even though that wasn't necessarily case for a lot of the other characters around Wayne, what about you, I'm gonna say for this episode it was going to be Booker. You know, I'm kind of in a love hate relationship with this character because you know, he was introduced back in the third season, and I really liked his character during that third season, but fourth season, I just wanted him to go away. Did not like him at all. There was just too much side character drama going on with him in that story. Took me out of everything that was happening there. But here now here, he's back in the episode. He's a lot to do and but he has a purpose for being there. You know. I just I just hope they don't overdo it again, especially with his relationship with Burnham, because that's what I felt was a major problem of season four. You know, we just don't have enough episodes this season to go into that anymore, So keep it brief.

20:18 Yes, I agree, completely agree with that one. For me, Uh, he wasn't on screen very much. But I loved Vance him walking in stopping security from arresting Tilly when she broke into the database, him him after he got rid of the security, you know, him walking in with It's a shame that I didn't get here in time, you know, to basically stop her. I really like Vance ode Arthur odd Fair. Yes, he's fantastic in this role. He brings just such a presence on screen with him. Any movie he's done he's like that, you know. I always remember him from the Mummy series. You know. He just brings that presence that you just you watch everything he does and everything he said as you listen to it, you know. So I really love the charic on this one for sure. I agree Kuess. If you could be in a character, what would you be? Wayne? Oh? Well, I'm gonna have to say Captain Rayner, only because I really like the design of the USS and Tari's kind of looks like a thirty second century version of the Stargazer, the card ship, and I always loved that design. I always thought that was great with the four new cells. And I have to agree with him, you know, with his argument with Captain Burnham's plan, because I see exactly see where he's coming from, and he, you know, he wants to be in charge of the mission. I don't agree with their plan either, but it works, so, you know, And there's some good stuff come up within the second episode that I appreciated anyway, And we'll talk about that here shortly. Scott, what about you? For me, I would think

21:49 it would have to be Lieutenant Commander Joan Oshagun m hmm, just because the I'd be fascinated to see how they were reacting to music, the saucerge sections to stop the avalanche, like when those orders come in to be like, how are we going to do this again? Okay, all right, let's get this done. I wish Good and Debtmer are consistently some some high points for me on the bridge. And I don't know if it's just you know the fact that they're pilots and I always think that's that's fascinating. I think their their characters are fascinating. I think the the acting is superb with both of those characters. So I'm consistently happy to see them. But yeah, for me, it'd be like how do you pull this kind of thing off?

22:34 And then we get some more you know, kind of logic behind it. Yeah, what about you, Dave. I'm gonna go with my man Vance again because he's just so damn cool and anytime he's on screen, he just he just demands that your attention and so good it has to be. I agree, yeah, Wayne, any I know we talked about a few Easter eggs, any anything else. Oh, Discovery's not known too much for its Easter eggs, but there are a few. This season, and one of the big ones I want to point out is the title sequences once again got an upgrade. It now includes elements that are directly linked to the story for the season. The two moons orbiting a planet. Moulinlock's ship is in it as well, and then that device that also activates the Infinity Room, which is seen on there, and I like how they update each of the title sequences every year. For this we also saw a Romulin science vessel.

23:26 It's the same design that we saw in the Next Generation during season five's Next Phase and a few other episodes, and the Romulins are still wearing their uniforms from that era of Trek. It's nice to see those. And then of course, you know, we got the mention of doctor Alton Sooom from The Cards first season. We got to see a self ceiling stembolt again, something we've heard a lot about in Deep Space nine but still have no idea what it does. And then of course at the end, we got the mentioned in the shot of Captain Card as well as the Progenitors that's from the Next Generation again. It's six season episode called the Chase, which kind of makes this season a sequel to that story, So it does. It would be important probably to go back and look at that episode and watch and see what they're talking about before completing the season. And how interesting that we covered the chase episode in one of our episodes this done. Yeah, that's right.

24:23 We chose it. We chose it as one of our top ten of season six, So go watch it, absolutely absolutely all right, anything else on that episode, guys before we move on to the next one. Uh no, I don't think so. All right, grew, Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back with our thoughts on episode two. Well, keep those eyes peeled, Scott tell us about our next episode Under the Twin Moons, yep so, And this one, we see Michael joins Seru on his last mission as her number one as part of the Discovery crew, and they continue to search for more pieces the Progenitor's puzzle. Their mission takes place on what seems to be a desolate planet lettered with defensive artifacts that try to kill them. We also to get a closer look at the bounty hunting Bonnie and Clyde mull Unlocke with some psychological profile and an interesting conversation, and we get some more clues as to what to expect from this giant mystery they're trying to solve as a sequel to the Chase. So this episode I felt was a little bit better than in the first episode. And one of the scenes we already kind of briefly talked about it was the Burnham and looking at Rayner.

25:33 You know, that whole scene there with the President where they're being questioned about their plans and stuff like that. I felt that whole scene right there was really really interesting between Burnham and Rayner, especially when Rayner was basically going off the deep end and basically, hey, you know, I'm going to take fault with this and everything, and she looks a him and said, you're not helping yourself as he was just you know, going off. I thought i'd like that scene. I really did. Between the two of them and what they're dealing with with the President, it was interesting to see them kind of pursue the consequences for certain decisions and actions. It's also slightly interesting because the previous episode was called red directive, which I had never heard of before. Yeah, which seems to mean, you know, nothing else matters, but achieving this directive, which seems a little odd in a Star Trek universe. There's there's the Omega directive, which we saw in Voyager, which is pretty much the same thing, just for different reason. But this is for so bad. So what is the Omega directive? There's a a molecule that, if discovered, it's required that all Starfleet captains drop everything to destroy it because it's it's it could lead to the destruction of the universe. Interesting, Okay, all right, wow, but it just seems to it gives an extra variable to that kind of courtroom drama. Right, Yeah, No, I had a red directive that means, by any means necessary, make

27:03 this happen, and you know, but still balancing that with the consequences of yeah, but we didn't mean, you know, trigger an avalanche that would wipe out a civilization, right, maybe stop short of that. But no, I agree, it was a little better than the first episode. I still find myself scratching my head about the the driving force behind the crisis with this one. Going back to the chase, as I recall, it was a largely historical and archaeological mission from Captain McCart Now we can talk about it spoiler free, but so it seemed to be a you know, an important part of history that must not be lost because it can help us learn a lot more about ourselves. Then we have the Klingons, the Cardassian thing on the Cardassians, and eventually the Romulans come in and say, we'll hold on a second. Since it's scattered throughout the universe, and clearly it's very cleverly designed and millions of years old, it might must either be one of the greatest power sources which we have to take for ourselves, one of the greatest weapons which we have to take for ourselves. And then it just ends up being an answering machine message from the species that, you know, the progenitors that had a literal hand in every humanoid species in the galaxy, And it

28:40 seemed to be a message of unity to say, you've been spread out across the galaxy. We knew that we wouldn't make it essentially, so we wanted there to be something left of us. Makes us very happy that you've all been able to come back together with a sense of unity to find this message. And we just want you to know that you have you have more in common than you have differences between you. It seems like a learning moment, and it seemed like it really resonated with the Romulins, in particular with their ending communication with Picard. Basically, there is no power, There is no great source like the Klingon. Captain was like, but that's it. An answering machine message. That's all we get. Yeah, And it seems like that's all it needed to be. So to dig that up just feels kind of strange to me. It does. I'm curious and where they're going to go with it, you know. I mean, we've got a bunch more episodes to go to see how they're going to uncover this puzzle that they're putting together. I'll see where it goes. I agree with you, Scott.

29:45 I felt like in the Chase that we got everything we needed in that episode. It was all wrapped up and nice and neat. We don't need to know any more about it. But yet here we are and going back over I feel like stuff. You've already gone over it, and just in a bigger way. I guess you could say, but I'll I'll see where they're going with it. I'll see people. I mean, it could be, you know, it could be the antithesis of what we saw in the chase, you know. Yeah, with that one being kind of this peaceful distribution with you know, best intentions in mind. Maybe there's a flip of that where there is an aspect of the progenitors where they understood that something was so dangerous that it shouldn't be around anymore, so they hit it in different places.

30:30 I was into the impression they were looking for the technology that was used that the Progenitors used to create live Now, I don't know how that would be you know, dangerous or something unless you know, someone was trying to create new life or or if it has something it could possibly destroy the life of the universe or whatever that's in the universe. But that's what I thought that we were leading towards that they're looking for. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I mean that can make more sense if you look at it that way. So okay, I'll take it that way. One thing I do learn and in this episode of Star Trek is they love cats spot It's still my favorite, but here we have Gritge with the little holographic mouse toy.

31:11 Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny. So the scenes between Burnham and Saru down on the planet where they're fighting the little globe droids wherever you want to call them. I always enjoyed the dialogue between those two. Again, I know we're seeing Burnham quite a lot. She showed me down on the planet, should be up with the ship. But again that's besides the point Scott. We've already talked about that one. But I always loved the dialogue, the relationship between these two, and it's always fun to see them on screen together. And they did it again, you know that the dialogue that they had. You know, you could tell that. You know, we know Saru is leaving. He's made his decision and this is like his last mission with them, and he's down on there, you know, because he wants to be there, because it's his last mission. You got handed to Doug Jones. This guy is something special. Yeah, I mean the guy is now running in these what hooked boots yeah and making it look easy. Yeah yeah, crazy right here. Yeah. His his ability not only as an actor, but as a i'd say an expert in movement.

32:22 You know, it's it's fascinating to me to watch Saru walk because it's like watching a willow tree, you know, like his hands kind of flow back and forth like branches. Yeah, he definitely invests emotionally and physically everything that he has into this character. He's consistently been one of my favorite characters of the show, and it seemed a little it seemed a little odd, I guess for somebody who seems so iconic to Discovery to think that this would be his last episode, which is something that's not too clear to me. Like I've seen behind the scenes things in the reading room where he's talking about, you know, took off my makeup for the last time. I don't have to get on those hoof boots anymore, And it was like, oh, is that it for Saru? Like Saru doesn't last all the way to the end of the series, which is fine, they can, you know, do whatever they want, but a little surprising to me. Yeah, And you know, I think that was probably my favorite part of the episode.

33:22 Two of Sarrow and Burnham's scenes together. They are the two characters that have developed the most chemistry through the series. They they they had been the one to benefit the most, and it's always great seeing the two of them together for in a whole you know, this episode didn't quite work as well for me as the first episode. You know, there were some great shots, especially that shot on the planet with the Nick Croppolis. I thought that was incredible. And you know, I just I found the episode to be very very wordy. It was. Yeah, there was a lot of technobabble in this episode, and I know Star Trek usually has a lot of it in every episode anyways, but in my opinion, it really slowed things down here for it's you know, I just I wanted to yell at the screen and say shut up, just good all with that? You know, you know, it made for just a very slower paced episode. And you know, we've only got ten episodes of season, so I don't know, can we afford to have a slower paced episode. You just have to wait and see, you know, what they have to do later on. But I am happy to hear that we are waiting to see Trill again, you know, the one planet that hasn't been explored too much. We had an entire character about it in These Space nine, yet it wasn't really the planet itself wasn't really explored that much, So be great to see it again on the show.

34:43 This isn't the first time we've seen it. On Discovery, But I'm always looked forward to to seeing these planets absolutely. And another thing I found very very nice and neat is how they bought the Burnham and through his character in full circle where she's basically thanking him for that second chance that he gave, you know, and then you know the whole dialogue thing they had about about second chances and yes, he said thank you to throu and he's like, for what for, you know, for giving me that second chance, which leads into who she decides is going to be her number one and Wayne, who is that that she picked? Yeah, and that will be Captain Rayner formerly of the us A Centauris, which I'm glad to see. I'm glad that she chose him. You know, everybody deserves a second chance, and you know, we're giving Discovery a second chance and she's giving him one.

35:34 And so it'll be interesting sticking someone that disagrees with you so much as your first officer. You know. I like that when he says I'm not a yes man and zips up the jacket, basically saying yes, I'll take the position. Yeah, right, that was pretty cool. It's also interesting to think about the dynamic of somebody who is born in this modern era, right, who gets to have more perspective. Maybe we'll get more hints as to you know, we've already spent some time here, so it's not like it's brand new, but procedurally, but also you know historically, you know some of the things that we might have missed between that I didn't know.

36:14 So, yeah, how do you guys feel about the family connection between Mole and the Booker. Well, I mean, you know, I don't know where they're going to go with that. Yeah, you know it. I as soon as he started looking closer at the video, I knew that there was going to be some sort of like family connection or something like that. So you know, I don't know, wait to see. Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see the you know, the Booker legacy that they get into with his predecessor. It feels like it isn't absolutely necessary. I mean, it might give a little bit more backstory into Booker, although we don't have many episodes left. It might give like a future purpose maybe the connection between the two cares. But I'm not entirely convinced that it's necessary.

37:04 But see where it goes. I'll trust the other eight episodes. If you're coming up absolutely all right, which character you think Sean knows in this episode? Wayne, Oh, it's that's sorrow. Yeah. I love Doug Jones. Wait we all do you even know now that I've I personally met him. He's a fantastic guy. And he hugged and he hugged me. Yes, he's a big hugger and and you know, you look at the character and you just want to hug him back. But you know here he stands at having he's been given so much more prominent part in this episode. Uh, he's got a few action scenes here and his his scenes with Burnham on the planet are are the best parts of this episode. You know, I just hope that with with him getting married, this isn't the last we see him. It does seem like it. But I just I want him to continue. I want him to continue on to look the final episode.

37:52 But you know, I don't know, I don't look too promising right now with him getting married. It doesn't Scott, what about you here? For two? I'm going with Saru. I I don't know if I agree with the action Sero Moniker, like you squeeze the legs together and his quills come out. You know, the action scenes we've already talked about, uh, their their dialogue, the the fact that their character art comes full circle, and the part where you use at the quills to shoot at the drones. That just took me back to that. That whole deep dive into Kelpian culture was fascinating. Even finding the clues in the the iridescent bacteria. I thought that was clever. Oh yeah, it was so all the things that they gave him to do. If this is his last one, then it's a it's a high note to go out on. It's three for three. Clearly, Saru is the one who shined the most in this episode, and everything that both of you guys said is absolutely on par with what I was thinking.

38:57 Doug Jones is incredible in this role. In any role he does, Doug Jones is fantastic. If he's gonna be in anything in the future, I will watch it just because of Doug Jones, because he does such a great job being a creature and or any kind of costume me whatever. Doug Jones has a fantastic job in this But the dialogue that we got to see between him and Burnham, And you know, basically, is this the closing the book on Saru. You know, being in his room and getting to see in all that and just you know, it was tough to watch because you know, it's I don't want to say goodbye to him because he is my favorite character on the show and I don't want to see him leave. So hopefully, hopefully he will be back this season and wrap it up at the end what we shall see. I do have a question I want to ask when we're talking about this this action sequence, how do we feel about the smart matter suits and the phasers? How the phasers just appear in their hands. Yeah, I don't like that, And that leads me to another thing too. I don't like that they can just warp out of I mean, transport out of every aware and just appear. I'm I'm not a fan of that either at all. Yeah, and I mean I know that it's advancements in the technology and also other kind of stuff, but it feels like in other iterations they both have a phaser and there are consequences to having to give it up and use one as a decoy or as a bomb basically, and then to lose both of them. Seems like it would just make them

40:31 have to It would force them to have to be creative in other ways, which I think could have opened up to some fascinating exploration knowing that they can just kind of, you know, stick their hand out and form another phaser, which it seems like there'd have to be some kind of give and take for that, Like we saw in Endgame when Tony Stark was losing pieces of his suit, he'd have to give up armor in other places to make this giant gun. Seems like there should have been some other kind of part of exchange. Otherwise it just seems like it's nothing is impossible, so that it seems to take a little bit of the drama the throat away. Yeah, that's true. I mean, if if they're we're talking about like an advanced version of a replicator that they're wearing that can create anything like that, I mean that really, I mean, you know, that can answer the question of of anything. I mean, you know, that could pretty much be the solution to any problem that they have, you know, just to boom, you know, create something and and there you go. And I don't I don't like that. It's in my opinion, it's Star Trek's version of the Sonic Screwdriver from Doctor Who, which I absolutely you know alway, is there a problem? Always there something I need solution I need to get out of. Just whip this out and everything's fixed now, don't don't do that.

41:49 Yeah, and that's what they have done. Unfortunately, I can't believe I'm hearing Wayne come after a Sonic Screweddever, I know right what the thing they did was in the eighties when when they destroyed it. That's right. Well, guys, if you could be any character in the episode, who would it be? And why he's got I mean, I'm gonna be a broken record and say s you know, to have uh even though I understand it looks like it was incredibly difficult, but it feels like it would be fun to just go through all those sequences. Wayne, what about you? I'm gonna say Burnham only because this seems like the beginning of an exciting adventure, you know, going off to discover the origins of life in the universe and incredible journey that she's about to undertake. So I'm gonna choose her.

42:37 It just sounds it just sounds incredibly exciting to me and plus an added bonus, you know, to be good friends with Saru, you know, the best character of the series by far. I want to be his friend, and I just I really do, Dave, what about you? I want to be Booker just because I want to hang out with Grudge. Absolutely all right. Any Easter eggs in this way, just a few, But the big one is the planet the Vialen, which was the planet that was full of the Necropolis's. Those were from the Premillion. That was a long dead race that we were introduced back in the Next Generations third season the episode Booby Trap. This is another race that we saw in one episode was never expanded on. We never learned anything more about them because they were long long dead by the time of the series took place. So I hope that we learn a little bit more about them this year. And with that, it's also mentioned the laying cycle fusion drive that was used in the Promellions starships. That was also something that was mentioned in the movie Trap. And that's the only Easter eggs that could pull out of this episode other than the ones we've already mentioned. Yeah, absolutely so, jentlemen. What are we seeing in the trailer for the third episode called Janelle, what are We Seeing? So, like you mentioned, we're going back to Trill. The only clips that I've seen involve interacting with some of the characters I've already seen on Trill, and

44:07 we get a reunion with some others. So I think it'll be interesting to dive a little bit deeper into Trill culture. I feel like agree the interaction that we had before was a little bit more contentious. You know, their their feelings about the Federation and you know, having to kind of get them back into the fold. It'll be interesting to see without that, let's dive more into the culture, which I've always thought that jed Zy attacks one of my favorites from DS nine. The concept of Trills is really fascinating, so I'll see. I'll be interested to see where they go with it. Yeah. Right, it's a fascinating race. You know, the idea of a symbio who's you know, the two minds merged together to form one. I've been Alwais fascinated with that as well, and Jesse Da so it's one of my favorite characters in Spaceline two. So I hope we do see more of trial. Just like you said, you know we've saw the pools both in both those series. You know that seems like the majority and almost all of them that we've ever seen of the planet. Let's see the rest of it.

45:12 Yeah, absolutely, can't wait, can't wait? All right? Well, gentlemen, as always, thank you so much for joining me for discussions of Star Trek. It's always fun. Yep. Likewise, love doing it. Yeah, me too, all right. As always, thanks listeners for joining us in our discussion of any everything Star Trek and joining us for Discovery season five. We've got eight more of these to go to end their final season. Haling frequencies are always open for you to share your thoughts and questions. Email us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com, find us online at a film by podcast dot com, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and if you're looking for more exclusive content and swag, send some latinmar way through Patreon. See you next time for another episode of Phasers. Set this done, Let's fly