Feb. 11, 2025

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Spreaker podcast player badge
JioSaavn podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 6 Phasers Set To Stun

On "Phasers Set To Stun," we recognize the popularity of all things Star Trek, with a look at television shows, animation, movies, and much more! Our crew is back on the bridge to discuss the Star Trek film that is arguably the fan-favorite, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan!

For exclusive episodes and content, send some latinum to our Patreon here! You can sign up for a FREE 7-day trial, or sign up for a free membership to get limited access!

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on X Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:11.480
Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation

2
00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:17.359
our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows,

3
00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:23.320
both new and old, to engage and debate about all

4
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:31.960
things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt.

5
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.600
Hello, listeners, and welcome to an all new episode of

6
00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:45.600
Phaser Sect to Stun, where we continue to show our

7
00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:49.280
love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from

8
00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.719
a film by podcast focusing on every system of the

9
00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:59.000
expanding Star Trek universe by covering television, movies, animation, directors, merchandise,

10
00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:02.759
and much more. Plotting your course on this voyage is

11
00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.239
your Core Trek crew. I'm Wayne Whiten, I'm David.

12
00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:07.840
Burns, yet I'm Skyt Hoffman.

13
00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:11.359
And today we're taking a shuttle back to the nineteen eighties,

14
00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:14.799
nineteen eighty two to be exact, and taking a close

15
00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.680
and detailed look at the second entry into the Star

16
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:21.959
Trek film franchise, Star Trek two, The Wrath of Khan.

17
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.239
This is the second film to start the original series

18
00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:27.680
cast and was written by Harv Bennett and Jack B.

19
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.599
Sowards and directed by Nicholas Mayer Scott. Why don't you

20
00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:33.120
give Us a short summary of the film.

21
00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.439
Time is catching up with James T. Kirk, a past

22
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.799
that haunts's future is coming to bear in more ways

23
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:43.000
than one. He's celebrating his birthday as an admiral, inspecting

24
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.120
an updated enterprise that's been infused with new cadets who

25
00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:49.359
are being trained by Captain Spock. Inspections are cut short

26
00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.480
when a mysterious call comes from an old flame, Carol Marcus.

27
00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.719
She's developing a terraforming technology that creates life from lifelessness,

28
00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:59.319
or in the wrong hands, decimates all life on a

29
00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:02.000
world to create a new one in its place. She

30
00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.959
thinks Kirk has ordered Starfleet to steal Genesis from her,

31
00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:07.840
which he hasn't, but the USS Reliant is on its

32
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:09.960
way to do just that. This is all part of

33
00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.719
an intricate trap set by Kahn, a genetically augmented villain

34
00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:16.439
from the original series who seeks revenge on Kirk for

35
00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:20.960
maruining him on the healthscape of SETI Alpha Vive. As

36
00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.400
he faces off against Kahn, Kirk meets his own grown

37
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:27.120
son he never knew he had as he fights to

38
00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:29.719
save his crew and his family from obliteration under the

39
00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:33.240
tyranny of Khan. This movie is an action packed adventure

40
00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.800
that revitalized the franchise and set a high bar for

41
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.840
all movies to follow.

42
00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.000
Now, while Star Trek the Motion Picture was a financial

43
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:44.599
success for Paramount, it was heavily panned by critics and fans.

44
00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:48.360
The executives of Paramount wanted to change for the second film,

45
00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.759
which meant this series creator Gene Roddenberry was forced out

46
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.319
of the sequel's production. Now, we're all very familiar with

47
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.080
this film. It's no secret that it's most Star Trek

48
00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:03.719
fans favorite. So let's talk about it. David. We'll hear

49
00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:05.000
from you first.

50
00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:07.240
Well, I mean, you kind of really touch base on this.

51
00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:09.599
A lot of Star Trek fans consider this to be

52
00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.960
the the best Star Trek of all the films. I

53
00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.080
think Undiscovered Country is the best, but this is a

54
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:19.000
very close second in my opinion, and it clearly has

55
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.400
the most memorable scenes of any Star Trek film. Oh yeah,

56
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.120
you know, with with you know, Kurt, you know, streaming

57
00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:30.280
Cohn to the death of Spock. You can't get beyond

58
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:32.479
those scenes. You cannot think of the wrath of con

59
00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:36.719
without thinking of those scenes right away. What I loved

60
00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:41.039
about this film is it did indeed bring back Star

61
00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.120
Trek to me a kid, as a kid, you know,

62
00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:45.159
because I mean, don't get me wrong, motion picture was

63
00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.439
a great film and that we discussed this when you

64
00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.960
talked about motion Picture that you know, twelve year old

65
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.520
me wasn't a fan of the motion picture. But as

66
00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.360
an adult I am. Whereas this one when it came out,

67
00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:00.800
I was thrilled because it felt like that Star Trekking

68
00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.840
that I saw in reruns, you know, the the Kirk,

69
00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:06.120
the spot. All of them were back in where they

70
00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:09.639
needed to be. And you had a true villain in

71
00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:15.159
this one with Kahan, and you know, Ricardo Montabon was

72
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.319
absolutely stunning as con as a villa. Yeah, in this

73
00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.879
film when he gets that reveal of of who it is,

74
00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.120
even when Chekhov realizes where they're at and he realizes,

75
00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.360
oh my god, get out of here. This is the

76
00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:31.399
Botany Bay. We gotta go, We gotta go, and it

77
00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.040
was too late of course by that point. But then

78
00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.839
the reveal to Kirk when he comes on screen and

79
00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:39.120
he sees who it is, with the reliant, incredible moments.

80
00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:40.680
Man, I love this film.

81
00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.240
Yeah. For me, it's my first dip into Star Trek

82
00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.240
and I imagine there's a lot of people in our

83
00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.439
generation that that's true. Like I had not seen the

84
00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.439
original series. I was kind of tangentially aware of it,

85
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.319
but had never necessarily sat down to watch it until this.

86
00:04:57.800 --> 00:04:59.920
I'm pretty sure I saw it at home on VA

87
00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:02.879
or on HBO or wherever it had happened to be,

88
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.279
but I was immediately hooked. This one has so much

89
00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:09.879
more accessibility and reach, I would say, than the motion picture.

90
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.240
At the point where it came out, you know, they

91
00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:18.000
were already part of popular culture, so you kind of

92
00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.480
had an idea for at least Kirkans back walking into it.

93
00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.399
They very quickly get you familiar with everybody you need

94
00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.560
to know. At the time when I saw it, I

95
00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:31.160
had no context for Khan, so I just trusted Chekhov's

96
00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.319
scared reaction. Aside from the fact that they just dip

97
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:37.639
you right into not only the action, but a bit

98
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.519
of the terror and intrigue. I think we're seeing a

99
00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.480
lot of influence from something like Alien in this one,

100
00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.199
where as a kid, there were a lot of places

101
00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.160
where it was scary to watch, like when they get

102
00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:55.040
onto the Genesis station and they discover the dead bodies,

103
00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:58.800
like there's stings of music where I was just like,

104
00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.439
holy crap, I'm gonna see like dead bodies and stuff

105
00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:05.800
like this is horrific. So I think it appeals to

106
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.120
so many people. It was a great follow up to

107
00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.720
the motion picture to kind of prove that this can

108
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:13.839
this can appeal to people who are not just fans.

109
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.839
There's a lot of people that kind of get into

110
00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:16.399
this universe.

111
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:19.160
And I mentioned the earworms come on man.

112
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:24.160
Oh yeah, no, no, no day nasty.

113
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.920
Yeah. I was very similar to what you said, Scott.

114
00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.000
This was my first introduction to Star Trek. I didn't

115
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.759
see the motion picture in theaters, but I did see

116
00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:37.959
Star Trek two, and you know, I was a big fan.

117
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.680
I was Star Wars, a Battlestar Galactica fan. That was

118
00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:44.399
me growing up. So I was used to these space

119
00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.600
battles and we got that in this film and I

120
00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.800
loved it. I mean I took to it right away,

121
00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.560
and I remember coming home afterwards and you couldn't buy

122
00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:57.680
There was no merchandise with this, and they didn't have

123
00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:59.480
any spaceships or anything. So I made my own out

124
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.560
of clay nice and would do the space battles that way.

125
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.160
I mean it really had a great impact on I'll

126
00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:07.959
see how old I've been, about ten years old at

127
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:13.120
the time, so you know, it's a great film. It

128
00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:16.160
everything that they I love the motion picture, don't even wrong.

129
00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.600
I love that film. It's one of my favorites. I

130
00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:21.079
fluctuate back and forth between what's my favorite Star Trek film?

131
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.120
You ask me every week, it's going to be different,

132
00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.199
but this is always high on the list. It is

133
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.759
everything that they did that people consider were wrong with

134
00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:33.759
Star Trek the motion picture they did right with this film.

135
00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:37.600
You know, they corrected their mistakes and made a film

136
00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.959
that's not just for Star Trek fans, but for the

137
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.560
viewer that has no idea about Star Trek, like ten

138
00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:47.240
year old me. It's a great film. It's not just

139
00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:49.800
a great Star Trek film. It's a great film. And

140
00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.319
wasn't it recently It wasn't it recently voted to be

141
00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.319
go into the what I can't think the motion picture

142
00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:02.000
archives or whatever that's called. Yes, it is true for

143
00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:03.680
great American cinema.

144
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.639
Yeah, without question. And as as we know, Jerry Goldsmith

145
00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.519
did not do the music for the for this movie

146
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.560
just because of the They didn't want Jerry Goldsmith and

147
00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:15.360
he was busy too.

148
00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:17.000
He was too expensive.

149
00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.199
He was too expensive, Yes, and they wanted to go

150
00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:19.879
with really an.

151
00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.399
Unknown who was cheap.

152
00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:26.759
And what we all know James Horner, now we do,

153
00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:29.959
who did a really good job with this score. Might

154
00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.399
only complaint with this score is it sounds too much

155
00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:37.159
like Battle Beyond the Stars, which he did in nineteen eighty. Yes,

156
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:40.399
so there, But it fits this movie perfectly, So don't

157
00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:41.600
get me wrong. I don't want to pick on it

158
00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.320
because I love James Warner. Whane, you know I love

159
00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:43.840
James Warner.

160
00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:44.519
Oh yes it is.

161
00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.919
I have almost all of his scores, and unfortunately, you know,

162
00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:49.679
we lost him, you know, quite a few years ago.

163
00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.279
But I think he did a fantastic job with the

164
00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.200
score in this Did you guys know he's in this movie?

165
00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:57.679
That's right, I forgot about that. Yep.

166
00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:00.519
He is one of the guys running down the hallway

167
00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:04.000
right before they battle con right before they're they're lifting

168
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.799
up the sidewalk kind of thing. Not sidewalk, but you

169
00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.120
know these metal great grates for the tory for the torpedo,

170
00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.159
but the photo of torpedo. He was running down the

171
00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.799
hallway right before that scene. But yeah, no, I think

172
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:17.559
James Horner.

173
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.399
Did a really good job with this. Oh he did,

174
00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:20.399
you know the action.

175
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.320
Sound and James Horner loves the anvil. You hear that

176
00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.960
in a lot of his scores. And I know we're

177
00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.440
gonn talk a bit more about his score a little bit.

178
00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:30.960
Later, but I just wanted to point that out. It's

179
00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.240
a highlight of the film. It is, and there's so

180
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.679
many different things. And this is also they changed the

181
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.639
visual effects company this. The visual effects was done by

182
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:45.080
Industrial Light Magic, who at the time was just really

183
00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:47.080
I mean, they've done Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back,

184
00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:48.960
but they hadn't really branched out to do other films.

185
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:52.799
So this was their first thing doing other than Star Wars,

186
00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.679
and they are the best, and they showed that they

187
00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:58.559
are the best in the business with the effects. They're incredible.

188
00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:00.519
You've reused a lot of effects from the should picture

189
00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.080
because they had to, they had to save money exactly.

190
00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:05.679
But what they came out that battle in the guitar

191
00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:07.360
and Nebula is amazing.

192
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.720
It is very suspenseful and it puts you on the

193
00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:11.320
edge of your seats.

194
00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:14.360
Yeah, well, I get so. I mean, like when you're

195
00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:17.639
talking about James Horner and the kind of the variety

196
00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:21.919
of things that you get in this movie, which, to

197
00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:25.080
say the least, is the return of the fun Kirk. Yes,

198
00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:27.360
I think in a motion picture we got kind of

199
00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:30.960
the subdued, You didn't get that suave debonair kind of

200
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:36.320
you know, almost comedic action from him. And the range

201
00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.360
of the plot is echoed in the range of the score.

202
00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.679
You get the terror, you get that action and adventure,

203
00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.440
you get the light moments like when they're in the

204
00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:48.240
Genesis Cave, even though it seems like it should be

205
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.279
one of the tense moments. He's asking for an apple,

206
00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:53.600
he's huggy. So there's a lot of great range in

207
00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.159
this and I think that goes back to the accessibility

208
00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:59.519
of it. It shows how much range there is in

209
00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:00.559
a start to movie.

210
00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.679
Yeah, because that was one of the big complaints about

211
00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.279
the motion picture is that a lot of people felt

212
00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:08.240
that the characters were rather cold to themselves. They weren't

213
00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.120
there weren't the type of characters that they remember from

214
00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.679
the original series. And I know we discussed that on

215
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.480
our motion picture postcast, that there had been years between

216
00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:19.360
where they had you know, these characters have never seen

217
00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:22.559
one another, so I, you know, put it up as that.

218
00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.039
But here now we got another time jump. I don't

219
00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:26.759
know if it's I think it's close to like ten

220
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:29.840
years time jump between the motion picture and this. But

221
00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:32.679
now they've been been with each other for a long time.

222
00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:36.399
So now we've got that friendship, that that that you know,

223
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.519
chemistry that we saw with the original series right here,

224
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.559
and it's fantastic. We finally get the characters that we

225
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.399
remember from the sixty series.

226
00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.960
This movie does such a great job of two reveals.

227
00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:53.120
One is when Kirk is revealed after they do the

228
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:56.639
tath with FABC, when you know, you get that filhouette

229
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.240
shot of him with the light behind him.

230
00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.320
I love that reveal of him.

231
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.679
I thought that was an absolutely incredible to an introduction

232
00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:07.679
to his character in this movie. The second reveal is

233
00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.200
obviously con He gets revealed twice though, which is fantastic,

234
00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:15.399
once to check Off and then once to Kirk Kirk's.

235
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.559
Kirk's reaction to that was just phenomenal when he sees

236
00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:19.200
him pop up.

237
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:19.559
In the screen.

238
00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.200
I mean, wouldn't you be the guy's been gone for

239
00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:23.879
fifteen years and you just put him out of your

240
00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.039
mind because you thought you would never see him again

241
00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.960
and here he is, holy crap, and he's got a

242
00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.639
he's got the reliant. So, you know, that was a

243
00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:35.320
really cool scene. And going back to what you were

244
00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:38.879
discussing way that these characters really felt like their characters again,

245
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:45.960
you really had that depth of characters between McCoy and Spock. Again,

246
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.120
we had a little bit in the motion picture, but

247
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.080
in this one you had a lot more of that,

248
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.600
and it felt genuine and real, just like it did

249
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:53.519
in the TV show.

250
00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:55.519
One of the lines that.

251
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.879
I absolutely love is when Spot to Jim be careful

252
00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.679
and McCoy leans and he goes, we will.

253
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.720
We will be love. Oh yeah, Well, and that's, you know,

254
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:10.039
getting back to what you were saying earlier about you

255
00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.279
get to see the relationship between them kind of be kindled.

256
00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:17.000
That happens immediately in the Kobashi Muru, which is a

257
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.759
brilliant way to start it. I think that's something that

258
00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:22.919
comes up a lot in this movie, but also it's

259
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.600
echoed through the rest of the franchise. But they in

260
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:29.480
that simulation, they're all kind of powling around like Gym's like,

261
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:34.519
aren't you supposed to be dead? To shop to Spock. Yeah,

262
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:38.519
and soon After that, you get the exchange of presents,

263
00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:44.639
right the romulant ale, the glasses, the dialogue you have

264
00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:51.120
between them, you immediately get the connectivity throughout. Not to

265
00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:55.879
mention Scotty, which I think there are two different ways

266
00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:58.919
to see this movie depending on how it's cut, whether

267
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.559
we find out that his nephew is part of the

268
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:05.879
engineering crew or we don't. I think without that reveal,

269
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:09.840
it's interesting to see Scotty carry his nephew's body onto

270
00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.840
the bridge because then you're reading it as he cares

271
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.360
so much for these cadets. He's gotten so close to

272
00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.000
these cadets that he sees him as one of his own,

273
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:23.039
so he's heartbroken at this loss. You got a different

274
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.639
kind of death when you find out that it's his nephew,

275
00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.080
and it's kind of hinting at the future, like you've

276
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.799
got generations being passed on, you've got them moving on

277
00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:35.240
and kind of welcoming that new crew and knowing that

278
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:40.120
they're already that close. It's just the relationship, that connectivity

279
00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.480
that we see in things like Straight New Worlds that

280
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:44.159
adds more death to Star Trek.

281
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.960
Even his line when they were in the medical bay

282
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.039
with him and he was dying and Scott, mister Scott

283
00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:53.879
was like he stated his post when the trainees ran, Yeah,

284
00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:55.519
broke just broke your heart.

285
00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.759
Man, Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, you get it.

286
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.519
Talking about the the opening sequences, I think that's just

287
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.279
a fantastic way of opening the film. With the Kobeyashi

288
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.759
Maru scene. I mean, you got you got this ship.

289
00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.440
We don't know which ship it is. You know, you

290
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:13.799
got this crew we've never met before, and they're being

291
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.039
attacked by the Klingons, and then all of a sudden

292
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.639
it's you discovered that it's just a training maneuver, and

293
00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:24.080
you get Kirk spot McCoy as we originally remembered them,

294
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.919
and this this great sequence about his birthday. What a

295
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.679
fantastic way of opening this film and showing everyone that, hey,

296
00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:33.440
this is the Star Trek that you guys wanted, this

297
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.360
is what you remember. It's perfect.

298
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.159
I really appreciated, and I believe there were stuff that

299
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.080
went on behind the scenes with the script and stuff

300
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.200
like that about an aging about an aging Kirk. Yeah,

301
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.679
and at first they didn't want that they wanted I

302
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.759
think with William Shatner, who didn't want that right at first.

303
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.039
Yeah, he was a little worried about.

304
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.440
Age, but it works in this film. It does so well,

305
00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.720
even with the whole glasses thing, when when he's on

306
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.440
the bridge and he's trying to hide his conversation with

307
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:06.519
Kahn who's on the screen, and he's pulling his glasses

308
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:07.799
out and kind of like looking around a little bit

309
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.960
like he's kind of embarrassed of pulling his glasses out,

310
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.799
you know, because he needed them to see. I love

311
00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:17.600
that we need to see an aging Kurt because he is,

312
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.759
for crying out loud. He's been out there running around

313
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.759
the galaxy fighting and you know it, going on journeys

314
00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.200
and adventures, and you need to see that. And I'm

315
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:27.360
glad they went that route.

316
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.679
I really am. Well, let's talk about a little bit

317
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.240
out the changes that they made in this film. The

318
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.519
big one is the uniforms. What do you think about

319
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.320
these uniforms compared to the ones that the motion picture had.

320
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.559
I think it's a I think it's an upgrade. Yeah,

321
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.600
for sure. You don't have the unfortunate below the below

322
00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.039
the belt buckle kind of situation. Yeah, to say it delicately,

323
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.879
but I mean it has so much texture and so

324
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.799
many layers to it. Uh, there's the added kind of

325
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.720
effect to the action where you see Jim kind of

326
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:07.079
unbuckle lapel or whatever, so it folds over right and

327
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:10.359
you've got like blood stains apparently that occasionally they kind

328
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.400
of appear. I think it adds a lot of interest

329
00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.319
to it, and it definitely modernized it for a new generation.

330
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:21.799
Yeah, I completely agree with you on that, Scott. I

331
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.400
love the uniforms on this. I think it was a

332
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.880
great addition. They felt more like a command crew of

333
00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.079
a navy ship. You know, obviously they're in space, but

334
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.440
you know, you still have that same kind of vibe

335
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:35.440
going on, and it really felt like that to me

336
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.400
a lot more and again it felt more like Star

337
00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:38.200
Trek because of that.

338
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:40.200
Yeah, I mean that's what they were going for too.

339
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.559
They were going for that, that that naval look and style.

340
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.880
There there were a lot of fans that were against that.

341
00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:50.440
They they didn't like the style and you know, of

342
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:54.240
the new uniforms, and felt that they went too far

343
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.359
away from the original series. But I think they're they're fantastic.

344
00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.400
They look really sharp. Yeah, I know. They they've been

345
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.799
dubbed the Monster Monster Maroon uniforms, and for poor old cosplayers,

346
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:12.680
they are incredibly difficult to reproduce because of the unusual

347
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.480
materials and styles that was used to make them.

348
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.839
And they keep these always through six and farther and farther.

349
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.079
But it just mean for the O G crew because actually, yeah,

350
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.160
they're in it in generations too, aren't they coming?

351
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:24.880
Yeah?

352
00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:25.880
All right, yeah, you're right.

353
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.400
Well, and speaking of costumes, you've got Con and his

354
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:37.759
mad Max vibes with a you know, b Arthur Stell mullet.

355
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:42.039
But really showing the chest there too. Oh yeah, really him.

356
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.920
You got to be proud of it, right, you're sixty

357
00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.200
and you're rocking those packs. Go ahead, yep, yep. But

358
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.279
all the little details like the little skeletal glove that

359
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:55.319
he's got wearing the belt buckle of a killed crew

360
00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.960
member is a kind of a mister T kind of thing. Yeah,

361
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:04.359
it's it was really cool to see somebody who doesn't

362
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:08.000
belong in that future that is kind of staying alive

363
00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:12.279
with the scraps coming back and just kicking their butts,

364
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.960
like they should have listened to Savoc. I'm sorry, they

365
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.079
should have listened to Savac and put up to the shields,

366
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.319
but got caught with their bridges down.

367
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.960
So and here's another new addition to this film. We

368
00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:27.480
got Kirsty Ally as Savag. What were your thoughts on her?

369
00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.720
I wish we had seen more of Savak. I think

370
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.839
she did a great job. I think it was a

371
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:39.079
good idea to have some infusion of some new talent.

372
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:45.519
It reminds me a lot of Kim Katroll's character in

373
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:47.519
The Undiscovered Country, which we'll talk about a little bit

374
00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.559
later in the what ifs. I'm glad that her character continued.

375
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.079
I think we had a great continuation of that character

376
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:57.880
in Star Trek three. But knowing that Kirsty Ally was

377
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.480
a fan of Star Trek that should go to bed

378
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:02.960
as a kid wearing the spot ears.

379
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:05.799
She did that too all filming the movie too.

380
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.319
Right, like that's a fan that But I think she

381
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:09.799
did great.

382
00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.039
When when I learned all that, it's like, Wow, She's

383
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.799
like the Tommy Newsome of this age, the of the

384
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.039
o G you know, so I I appreciate that more.

385
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:20.039
But I actually loved her character. I wish we had

386
00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:22.640
gotten a whole lot more of her. And my understanding

387
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:27.279
is they thought that she would possibly replace Spock because.

388
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.000
They're gonna kill Spock off is what they intended.

389
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.359
But then of course Paramount snuck in that little tidbit

390
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:37.920
at the end with with you know, his casket, which

391
00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:39.839
I which I find amusing, by the way, because Lennard

392
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:41.359
Emo even made the comment because he didn't know they

393
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.119
filmed that, and apparently when he saw that, I was like, well,

394
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.000
I guess I'm expecting a phone call from Paramount.

395
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.200
He's sitting in the theater either throws his popcoring down

396
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.400
or says like, okay, got another paycheck.

397
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.720
There we go. Yeah. I think she did a phenomenal

398
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.799
job as Savog. I like Robin Curtis's performance three and four,

399
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:08.279
but I think Kirstie's performance is was it was different.

400
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.640
You know, she she's a vulcan, or at least half vulcan.

401
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.839
It never really said that in the film that you know,

402
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.039
but she's it's assumed that she's half fulk and half romulent.

403
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:21.160
But the way she has to try to hold back

404
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:25.200
her emotions and rather unsuccessful. She just performed it so

405
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.039
beautifully and it was a great, uh you know double

406
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.359
act with with Leonard Nimoy just just fantastic and like,

407
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:34.799
like both of you, I wish we would have saw

408
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.079
more of her, And I know they tried, they tried

409
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.400
getting her back, but she just became a very uh

410
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.960
successful actress and while she wanted to come back, she

411
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:45.599
just never could work it out with her schedules.

412
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:46.160
Yeah.

413
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.440
I mean, it's coud with her for all the work

414
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:49.599
she was getting. But oh yeah, it sucks for us

415
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.519
Star Trek fans that we couldn't get her back.

416
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:52.079
Yeah.

417
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:54.480
Yeah, Well, I'll tell you what. Let's let's take.

418
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.559
A break and then when we come back, we'll continue

419
00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:01.920
our discussion with Star Trek The Wrath of con All right,

420
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.759
welcome back, where we will continue our discussion. Hair Fhaser

421
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.240
set this done with Star Trek The Wrath of Cohn.

422
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.039
So we just talked about Christy Ally. I think we've

423
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.759
got to give another nod to Ricardo Montalban for what

424
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.079
he did with this. It's fascinating to know that he

425
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:21.400
was filming Fantasy Island at the time, so he already

426
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.200
was kind of back in popular culture. Had to kind

427
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.599
of rewatch episodes to get refamiliar with the character, and

428
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.240
he did so seamlessly. He delivered such a terrifying performance

429
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.200
as a villain that never comes face to face with Kirk,

430
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.279
not just crazy in person, but right right, You never

431
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:43.400
think of it, but yeah, and you know, his character

432
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.240
just echoes. When you think of like, who is the

433
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.319
greatest villain in Star Trek, his name is always at

434
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.799
or near the top, which.

435
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:51.839
Is always odd because, I mean you really think about it.

436
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.279
He made one appearance in the original series during the

437
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:58.119
first season, just one appearance. I mean, you know, it

438
00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:01.200
was a very strong appearance, obvious, you know, for someone

439
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:02.839
to watch and says, we got to bring him back,

440
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.920
and that was the right decision because he makes such

441
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:13.559
an incredible villain and a perfect adversary for William Shatner,

442
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:21.079
for Kirk just it's an incredible performance, very very emotional

443
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:25.880
performance that he puts into it a highlight to this film.

444
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.279
What always makes a great villain is that you care

445
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.759
about them, that you almost see what they're talking about,

446
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.000
what they believe in, and what they're fighting for. It

447
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.960
may be wrong, they may make the wrong choices, but

448
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.400
when you have such a strong villain, and I'm talking

449
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.279
like Darth Vader, you care about him. Anakin Skywalker and

450
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.240
in this instance, con you know, you kind of see

451
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.160
where he's coming from. Yeah, and you kind of care

452
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.839
about that, and you see that he believes wholeheartedly in

453
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.440
what he's doing, cares about the people who have been

454
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.519
around him for all of those years, and you know,

455
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.039
even says you would do the same thing.

456
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.079
You know, he says that, and you would absolutely.

457
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:15.359
Yeah, he lost sixty people, including his wife. That's not

458
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.240
to write him a check for all the atrocities that

459
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.440
he did before he was outcast in the Bany Bay.

460
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:26.799
But yeah, I mean he he sells the emotional halt

461
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.200
of it, to be sure, even in his death scene

462
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.599
when he kind of stumbles up with that Harvey Dent

463
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.920
two faced kind of approach and you can see him struggling,

464
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.279
but every bit of him wants to just get revenge

465
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.839
on Kirk. So he says it one hundred percent, and.

466
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:47.960
He's obsessed with it.

467
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.920
And that's what he has his crew and him, their lives.

468
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:52.799
Exactly what I was going to say. You know, he

469
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.359
you understand where he's coming from. I mean, you know,

470
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:57.799
they put him on a planet. They just forgot about him,

471
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.079
and then that devastating thing happened to the plane, and

472
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.839
you know, he lost so many people, and he wants revenge,

473
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.039
but he lets the revenge take him over and he

474
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.720
becomes obsessive with it to the point where you know,

475
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.119
he loses everything, and it's that's what his downfall is.

476
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.400
Has revenged his obsessions session for getting revenge against Kirk

477
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:20.400
is his downfall.

478
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:21.319
And that's just I.

479
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.960
Mean, that's what makes a perfect, perfect film. Perfect ending

480
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.000
to a film is you know the rise and follow

481
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:29.319
of that villain. Yeah.

482
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:33.920
Well, and one of the most iconic deaths in Star Trek. Yeah,

483
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.240
which hats off again to Leonard Nimoy for his performance

484
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.119
from the minute he realizes what he has to do

485
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:47.440
on the bridge until his literal dying breath. It floored me,

486
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.720
like emotionally, it floored me when I was a kid

487
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:54.960
and I had no context for it. And you see

488
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.079
how close they are and how much this means, and

489
00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.599
what kind of a strong character Spock is.

490
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.480
It's almost like and I know they cleared the set

491
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:05.680
when they filmed the death of Spock. There was like

492
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:08.279
they were did not let hardly anybody on set when

493
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.119
this was being filmed because they did not want it

494
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:14.799
to leak out, and thank god it didn't. You truly

495
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.440
believe the performances of these actors in that scene because

496
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.519
they have been together for so many years, they were

497
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:25.599
in that TV series together, and you know, they're you know,

498
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:26.640
like our next chanshion Cup.

499
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:27.279
They were family.

500
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:31.000
And when one of them is dying, granted it is

501
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.640
on you know, just in a film, but you're still

502
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.359
losing that character who you have been with for so long.

503
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.839
That is almost like a part of you is truly

504
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.079
being taken away. And you can see that in their performances,

505
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.039
all of them. Even when McCoy and Scotty were banging

506
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:49.960
on the glass, they get him out of there, and

507
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.279
then when you know, when McCoy reaches out to Kirk

508
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.400
tells him you need to get down here, and then

509
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.200
when Kirk gets down there, you just see it in

510
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.960
their eyes, their expressions. I don't think any of that's fake, man,

511
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:00.960
I don't know.

512
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:06.000
No. Oh god, that line where he says better hurry, Yeah, yeah.

513
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:10.240
Absolutely yeah. I mean that's such a memorable scene. It's

514
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.039
such an iconic scene as Star Trek repeated over and

515
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.839
over again in pop culture, and that just shows how

516
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.960
much of an impact this film made it to science fiction,

517
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.640
not just Star Trek, but science fiction and film. It's

518
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:28.880
it's it was a huge impact on Star Trek. You know, people,

519
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.240
I heard that on the set that when they were

520
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.880
filming that people were crying, and some of the crew

521
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.079
that had never seen Star Trek they didn't understand why

522
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.359
these people were crying until they watched the film, and

523
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.880
then they realized how much these characters mean to people,

524
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:47.759
you know, who sit there and watch the original series.

525
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.799
I love that story. And let's give kudo to Lennonimoy.

526
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.000
He really sold that performance of dying Yes when he

527
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.480
was like cuddled in the corner far away, you know,

528
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:01.599
obviously very weakned eyeing, and he fully makes his way

529
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.880
over to Kirk, and just the performance with the end

530
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.640
of do and how he just slides down and Kirk

531
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:09.799
slides down with him, and then just how the skin

532
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:11.200
is just you know all you know.

533
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:13.279
His voice is a raspy.

534
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:14.039
Yes, yes voice.

535
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.480
It's just incredible performance by learning more.

536
00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:20.680
Here well, and the when you're mentioning that scene where

537
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:22.920
he kind of stands up, the fact that he does

538
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:27.839
the card maneuver straightening. Yeah, he stands up straight to

539
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.079
have some dignity even though he bumps into the glass.

540
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.720
But you feel horrible for him because radiation has blinded him,

541
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:39.119
and he takes that extra time to you know, tell

542
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.200
his friend that it's all right, he knows what he

543
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:41.519
had to do.

544
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:47.759
M Yeah, it's the best death in Star Trek. It

545
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:51.880
just it really is. And I don't I hope they

546
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.759
never even they're never going to to surpass that. They

547
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:58.440
can't can't. There's just no way.

548
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:02.519
Well, and I know that it doesn't always hit right

549
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:07.960
when they try to replicate it, like when they tried

550
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.240
to redo it in the Crispine era, it didn't necessarily hit.

551
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.000
In my opinion at all.

552
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.759
But I think it shows the value of having some

553
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.720
emotional connections between the characters and the value of character building.

554
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:25.400
We've seen it in Lower Decks. We've seen it in

555
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:27.960
Strange New Worlds. We've seen it in Discovery, We've seen

556
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:29.839
it in the Next Generation in DS nine and all

557
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.119
over the place. The value of building those characters and

558
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.640
knowing those characters can resonate with people that it's not

559
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:38.839
just dismissing it as sci fi or dismissing it as

560
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.079
Star Trek. I'm not into the space stuff. You're missing

561
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.000
something entirely if you're not seeing these kind of things.

562
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.359
One of the lines in this movie that just chokes

563
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.960
me up every time, and it's meant to is when

564
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.799
Kirk is giving that speech at the end and he says,

565
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.079
of all the souls I have met in my travels,

566
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.200
he was the most and then he breaks up right

567
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:03.720
there human. Yeah, that line just it gets me every time, man,

568
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.640
it does because of all the times that he's fault

569
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.000
that of being vulcan and half human, and for that

570
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:11.759
line is just man, it was so fitting right there.

571
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:12.680
Yeah.

572
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:14.759
But then also on top of that, you know, you

573
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.319
get the bad pipe playing which turns into a beautiful

574
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.599
score piece by James Horner here, like it just blends

575
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.160
in beautifully right there, and.

576
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:28.119
A beautiful visual effects shot on top of it too. Yeah. Well,

577
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:30.799
let's uh, let's twist the story a bit and look

578
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:35.000
at look into another dimension with what if, where we

579
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:36.880
discuss things that could have been with this film.

580
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.880
So one of the interesting what ifs is more about

581
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:46.000
casting than the direction of the film possibly, and then

582
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:48.279
a kind of a what if that I don't think

583
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.599
it was necessarily explored, both related to savoc So casting wise,

584
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.440
apparently Kim Catrall was the first choice for the role

585
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.480
of Savak, auditioned for it but wasn't available at the time,

586
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:05.039
so she had come back to play Valaris in the

587
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:06.039
Undiscovered Country.

588
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.240
I'm glad it went that way.

589
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:09.960
I'm very glad we went that way too. Yeah. I

590
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.559
think she does an amazing job. Is a Valaris. Yes,

591
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.119
very interesting to see the parallels between those two characters. Yep,

592
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.519
between these movies, especially since and correct me if I'm wrong.

593
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.640
But they give Savac the con to take them out

594
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.839
of space dock, and she says, take us out at

595
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:31.920
some measure of impulse. I don't know if it was

596
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:37.240
one quarter, one half or full impulse, and everybody seems

597
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.279
cool with it. But when Valerius is on the bridge

598
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.720
and the order is given to take us out of

599
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:48.599
space dock at one quarter impulse, she says, regulations dictate

600
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.839
only maneuvering thrusters when exiting space dock. And he's like,

601
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.400
you heard me? And I was like, wait a second, well,

602
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:57.960
when did this come up? Like either maneuvering thrusters or impulse,

603
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:01.400
which is gonna be but the other the other aspect

604
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:02.799
kind of the what if that I had seen that

605
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:04.599
I thought was interesting was apparently there was more of

606
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:10.279
a relationship with Peter Preston, Scotty's nephew and Savic. It

607
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:14.079
didn't sound like it was necessarily a romantic relationship, but

608
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.279
maybe a little bit more of like a mentor kind

609
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.839
of thing. She was helping him with studies and he

610
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.079
had a bit of a crush on her.

611
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.519
So we didn't need that true.

612
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:25.559
They would have been too much true.

613
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:27.440
But I think it's interesting that it adds a little

614
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.079
bit more depth to her reaction to seeing his death

615
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:34.799
on the bridge. Yeah, it sounds like maybe that's hinted

616
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.519
at in the novelization, so and it sounds like the

617
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.400
emotional reaction has maybe taken a little bit too far,

618
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:43.240
but just got some interesting what ifs related to savic.

619
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.079
It's kind of funny that you mentioned that because on

620
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.160
the uh, the one scene where she goes into Oliver

621
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.119
with Kirk and he's like, did you do something with

622
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.519
your hair? And then you know, they're talking, she obviously

623
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:56.880
wants to talk about the test again. And then when

624
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.960
McCoy you know, pops up, the doors open and McCoy

625
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.480
standing there and he goes, did you do something with

626
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:05.079
her hair? I just found that amusing that it might

627
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:06.440
have been that might have been part of it, and

628
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.519
then they just decided not to go that route, you know.

629
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.559
Yeah, and then McCoy say, said that about rhymelin Al

630
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:14.480
and I'm like, oh, McCoy, don't, don't make it creepy weird.

631
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.920
Just let her go do her stuff.

632
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.519
Right, didn't didn't.

633
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:20.559
Wasn't this originally gonna be called the Undiscovered Country?

634
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:23.079
Yes? And wasn't it funny one of its names?

635
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.799
Yeah, so that I'm glad they didn't. I'm glad it

636
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.160
became the Wrath of Con because you know, we know

637
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.799
it is today in Undiscovered Country is Undiscovered Country.

638
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.160
So it worked out well, that's what.

639
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:34.960
One point we're saying. It was going to be the

640
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:39.559
Vengeance of Con YEP. But when they knew that Jedi

641
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:41.440
was going to be I think at that time it

642
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.559
was Revenge of the Jedi before the rename it was YEP,

643
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.960
so they didn't want to be too close. We came

644
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.319
out the right way, we did.

645
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:51.839
Yeah, that's a great I agree, And that's what I

646
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.400
wanted to touch on my what if some of those

647
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.839
early drafts, because they're actually rather interesting. You know. When

648
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:03.480
the motion picture was released, Gene Roddenberry wrote a sequel script.

649
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.119
It's where the Enterprise crew travels back in time to

650
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:11.679
a changed, corrupted timeline where the Klingons had used the

651
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:15.639
Guardiana Forever to go back in time and prevent the

652
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.440
assassination of John F. Kennedy. Now that's I'm trying to

653
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.599
even imagine that as the second Star Trek film. No,

654
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.039
of course paramount. You know, they blamed the failure of

655
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.199
the first film on Gene Rodden very specifically, and they

656
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.599
rejected the script, which I don't blame anything on him,

657
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.679
but I agree with them with rejecting that script for it.

658
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.119
And of course he was taken off the project. And

659
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:43.320
then they hired in a new producer, Harve Bennett, who

660
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:45.880
had no knowledge of Star Trek whatsoever, and I think

661
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.440
that's what they were looking for. And he came up

662
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:52.480
with an idea for a script because there were two

663
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.480
things that they wanted. They wanted it to be less boring,

664
00:34:56.679 --> 00:34:59.800
and they wanted it to cost lesson and i'll quote

665
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:07.239
here or forty five million dollars. Bennett's idea was called

666
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:11.480
War of the Generations, where Kirk investigates a rebellion on

667
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.079
a distant world and discovers that his son is the

668
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.679
leader of the rebels, Con is the mastermind behind the plot,

669
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.239
and Kirk and son joined forces to defeat the Tyrant.

670
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:26.119
We're getting a little closer to Ratha con. But Bennett

671
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:28.000
wasn't a script writer, so he hired in Jack B.

672
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:32.559
Sowards to write which was called The Omega Syndrome, and

673
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:36.320
that included the storyline with the theft of the Federation's

674
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.679
alternate weapon, which was called the Omega System. But Bennett

675
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:42.880
didn't like the idea of an ultimate weapon, so they

676
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.199
changed it into a terraforming device, which became the Genesis Device.

677
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.159
You know, slowly it became the script that you know

678
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:56.000
we are familiar with. But Paramount at that time asked

679
00:35:56.039 --> 00:35:58.599
a writer, Samuel A. Peeples, to write a script as well.

680
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.760
Now he wrote for the original series. He wrote Where

681
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.639
No Man Was Going before the second pilot, but they

682
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:08.800
rejected it because the script was too much like the

683
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:09.639
original series.

684
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:14.920
All I know, if they had gone with the original

685
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:16.960
gene Rod Murry idea, we would not have had Star

686
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:17.719
Trek three.

687
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:21.480
Probably not right for sure. But then, of course, you know,

688
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.079
like you said you had mentioned earlier, they brought in

689
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:28.880
Nicholas Mayer to direct it. He took those ideas, wrote

690
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.599
his version of the script, and that's what became The

691
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.760
Undiscovered Country and then it was, you know, the whole

692
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:36.679
through the changing of the names. He did not like

693
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.400
the change of the name, though he wanted it to

694
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:42.880
stay on Discovered Country. It was the mark head of

695
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:47.960
marketing at Paramount that changed it to Vengeance Acan and

696
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:49.400
then of course they changed it to Rathic com It

697
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.960
was just like you said, but he hated that, and

698
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:54.239
I think that's why he called his second film that

699
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.679
he directed, the Undiscovered Country.

700
00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.719
It worked out, come on, it did well.

701
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.679
There's something else that stood out to me in this

702
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:05.199
this viewing of it, just knowing all the like the

703
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:08.920
subsequent movies and kind of a plot thread that seems

704
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.559
to carry through at least the first four movies, is

705
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.280
it's time for Jim Kirk to move on. But he

706
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:18.199
doesn't or can't.

707
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.760
Yeah, he refuses, Yeah, you're.

708
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.760
Right, well, four full movies. It's kind of like, yeah,

709
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.480
it's interesting.

710
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:28.079
Well what I like about those? Part two, Part three,

711
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:28.719
Part four.

712
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.159
Are all on top of one another. I mean, it's

713
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:31.599
there's one.

714
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.519
It's basically one big movie right there.

715
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:36.760
It's a trilogy. It's a trilogy. Yeah, I can't. I

716
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.000
can't see one without the other three. It's it's one

717
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:39.639
long story.

718
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.840
Yeah, I agree, And did I not hear that at

719
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.639
one point Ron Howard was even in line to direct

720
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:47.480
this film.

721
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:50.840
MS, It's possible, I mean he was.

722
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.480
He was the thing at the time, you know, they

723
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.199
up and coming director. I'm sure his name went across

724
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.119
their ghosts at one point. Yeah, that'd be interesting to see,

725
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.360
is what it is. Of course, we can't talk about

726
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.000
a Star Trek film without going into an in depth

727
00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.199
discussion about its musical score. For Star Trek two, the

728
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:11.320
production weren't able to afford the hefty fee that Academy

729
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:16.079
Award winning composer Jerry Goldsmith required, so they were looking,

730
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:20.519
as David said, someone much cheaper. Well, they found what

731
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:23.559
they were looking for with the relatively new twenty eight

732
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:27.159
year old composer named James Horner. This would be Horner's

733
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:30.880
first major film score. He had scored a few low

734
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.519
budget films like for Roger Corman. You mentioned a Battle

735
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:37.639
Beyond the Stars and Humanoid from Humanoids from the Deep,

736
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.880
as well as a handful of TV movies, but that

737
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.960
was it, and he saw this as his chance for

738
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.239
a big break and he was right. Now, David, you

739
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.480
are the biggest James Horner fan that I know. So

740
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.840
I'm gonna let you start with this.

741
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.079
Well, I mean, this is his first major, high profile film,

742
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:58.679
and you know, he had a lot of pressure on him,

743
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:00.760
so you know, I knew he had to do a

744
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:03.840
good job. It's funny. I found a quote from him

745
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.079
and he says, I'm sure that I was influenced by

746
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:10.119
Goldsmith's large orchestral scores when I started out, and that

747
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:12.639
was because the people who employed me wanted that kind

748
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.239
of sound. I wasn't in a position to say, go

749
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:19.079
to hell. Yeah, so you know, and he did not

750
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.079
have a lot of background yet, as you said, Wayne,

751
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.280
he had done just some you know, small independent things

752
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:27.719
with Roger Corman and stuff like that. And you know

753
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.679
I mentioned at the beginning of this is it sounds

754
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:32.400
a lot like Battle Beyond the Stars.

755
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:33.599
It really really does.

756
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.280
I mean guests on at points and I'm like, wow,

757
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.039
can you not rip off yourself?

758
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.679
Because you did? Now. I love Horner too, but it's

759
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:47.920
a known fact that he does like to use sections

760
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.000
of his score in other films. I mean, we can

761
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:54.440
go over for hours talking about that. But so you know,

762
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:56.920
I'm okay with that. I have no problem with that.

763
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:00.639
I don't you know, there are differences, but there are similar.

764
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:03.440
Yeah, And you know, he had some really good pieces

765
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:06.599
in here, and that we talked about. You know, the

766
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.400
bagpipe part is one of my favorites of this entire film,

767
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.360
and there's a lot of good pieces in this film,

768
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.840
but the whole bagpipe when it just transcends into his

769
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:18.320
score is just so beautifully well done.

770
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:18.880
It is.

771
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.159
And you know, he really does a good job of

772
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:24.719
action sequences, which is why he got chos in for Aliens.

773
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.599
He's fantastic with that stuff because he loves the anvil.

774
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.760
And again I mentioned that before. You would hear that

775
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:33.920
in a lot of his music, and he uses it

776
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:37.159
in Titanic for Crymea. You know, there's a lot of

777
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.000
anvil in his stuff. One of my favorite scores of

778
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:43.639
his is Enemy at the Gates and he has like

779
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:45.880
a I want to say, it's like an eighteen nineteen

780
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:50.679
minute piece that is just absolutely stunning, and the endvil

781
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:52.440
is in there. Again, so that's why I wanted to

782
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:53.880
bring that up. But you know, just is one of

783
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.159
his favorite A lot of composers have that where they

784
00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:58.440
have that one thing that they love to use over

785
00:40:58.480 --> 00:40:59.840
and over and you'll hear it in a lot of

786
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:01.400
the pieces and horners no different.

787
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:03.880
All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll

788
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.639
come back and see what Scott says about the musical score.

789
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:14.280
Welcome back, and we are talking about the second Star

790
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.000
Trek film started to the rap the con and specifically

791
00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:20.360
it's musical score. So Scott, what do you think.

792
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:26.440
I gotta agree with Dave on the amazing grace transitioning

793
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:32.840
from the bagpipes to it's goosebumps again. But so one

794
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:35.320
of these sequences on a regular one where we get

795
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.239
the terrifying use of score to just put you on

796
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.239
the edge of your seat absolutely works to ratchet up

797
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:47.440
the terror with not a lot going on. It's just

798
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.360
what a mouse that appears before there's a dead body

799
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.639
that hits you with that sting. It's just used to perfection.

800
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.639
But above that, I'd say it is the battle of

801
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:02.159
the matar and nebula music in that is absolutely yea

802
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.320
perfect ye. And I love the including the sequence that

803
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.920
you talked about before where they're kind of lifting those

804
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.039
grates to prepare the rail for the photon torpedoes. There's

805
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.480
that militaristic kind of vibe to it and it just

806
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:18.760
adds to the to the flow of the whole thing.

807
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:20.840
It's it's classic.

808
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.960
And if am I remembering correctly in the Nebula scene

809
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.440
when the Enterprise I believe, was coming forward towards the screen,

810
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:29.960
did he not use the same sound from the motion

811
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:31.639
picture that Jerry Goldsmith.

812
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:36.039
Used the blaster beam? Yes, the blaster yeah, yes he did, yep.

813
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:40.679
And the performer, Craig Huxley, he performed it for this

814
00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:43.920
film as well, and he I mean, it works, It

815
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:44.719
really does work.

816
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:45.639
You know.

817
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.480
I love that instrument. Yeah, me too, you know you

818
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:52.000
mentioned it. Great score, Scott are great to Q and

819
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.320
I want to add my favorite Q two, which is

820
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.920
Genesis Countdown. I love that that piece of music. It's

821
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.800
it's just incredible. It's a very emotional build up to

822
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:08.039
when the Genesis device, you know, activates and the Enterprise

823
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:13.599
warps away. It's it's so it works so well. You know,

824
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:19.079
for Corner's first major film, he really knocked it out

825
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:22.559
of the park on this. I can see why everyone

826
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.840
just suddenly started taking notice and he started getting more

827
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:29.719
and more jobs at films because I can't I mean,

828
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.840
I love Jerry Goldsmith, but I can't imagine anyone else

829
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:36.519
but James Horner scoring this film.

830
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.519
A Yeah, I mean it's you know, unintended. It hits

831
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:44.320
a lot of emotional chords, the the the non verbal

832
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:51.280
drama in that sequence accentuated by the score. But I'm

833
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:56.079
thinking specifically when Jim looks at his son David, almost

834
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.480
like are we gonna make it? And David's like, not

835
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.000
a chance, just shakes his head quietly, And it's the

836
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:06.880
score that under that accentuates that emotional moment so much more.

837
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:11.599
Yep. And this score is a lot of soundtrack fans'

838
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:14.880
favorites too, because it has been in print ever since

839
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:18.119
the beginning. You'll have no problem finding a copy of it.

840
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:19.199
You know.

841
00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:22.960
It was released back in July nineteen eighty two. Forty

842
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.840
five minutes of the score delivered most of the main

843
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.719
cues that you heard. But then it was re released

844
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:33.760
on CD in nineteen ninety by g g NP Crescendo Records,

845
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:36.639
and then we finally in two thousand and nine got

846
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:41.079
the complete score from Film Score Monthly twenty three tracks. Yeah,

847
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.719
I know, there was even though most of the major

848
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.800
cues were there, there were still a lot of great

849
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:48.920
little pieces, including that piece that you were talking about

850
00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:53.159
that took place in regular one, so it's available. And

851
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:55.159
then it was re released again in twenty twenty one

852
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:58.880
by Lolaland Records to CDs. This time they included the

853
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:02.199
original album remastered as well as all the alternate and

854
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:06.239
I'm used cues. This is still available. It's still out there.

855
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:08.480
You can go to Lululian Records website and get your

856
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:14.920
copy right now, I got it, yep, All right. Now

857
00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.920
that we've discussed the film in depth, both on scene

858
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:20.880
and behind the camera, let's talk about our personal favorite

859
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:22.800
bits from Star Trek the rap then, I know we've

860
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.519
discussed quite a few of them. Scott, what is your

861
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:30.679
favorite scene from the film.

862
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.519
I think one that I'm going to key up as

863
00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:36.639
a favorite because we've talked about so many. I want

864
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:42.199
Judson Scott to get more credit as couns right hand

865
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:43.199
man walking.

866
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.920
Oh yeah, he gets overlooked. I agree.

867
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.679
Yes, he has a great death scene because he's trying

868
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.920
as much as he can to tell Ahab, you know,

869
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:56.840
get over your own ego, stop chasing the whale. You're

870
00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:59.519
gonna you have everything you want. You don't need to

871
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:03.000
do this, And then when he dies, he says, yours

872
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:05.760
is superior, just like that's what he knows that he

873
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:07.880
always needed to hear, and then dies with his eyes

874
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.679
open to know that he got a lack of a

875
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:16.039
screen credit seems like a crime in this I think

876
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:18.360
he's an unsung highlight of the movie.

877
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.159
Yeah. That was his agent's fault, though, wasn't it.

878
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:25.719
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to waive credit to negotiate better

879
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:31.199
credit placement later. Silly mistake. But you know that doesn't

880
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:33.280
mean that he wasn't training his damnedest. Like he gave

881
00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:36.360
a performance that stands out to somebody who you don't

882
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:38.679
even know his name until he's dying.

883
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.320
Yeah, I agree, David. What about you?

884
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.320
So, I don't want to talk about the obvious, you know,

885
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:47.440
with the films that are very the scenes that are

886
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.119
very popular that we all.

887
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:50.599
Know and love.

888
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:53.559
So the one that I really attached to is Spock's

889
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:56.840
speech on advising Kirk he should never have been have

890
00:46:56.920 --> 00:46:57.840
given up Captain.

891
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:00.880
I really, I really like that scene.

892
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:03.840
You know, basically he goes in there to tell him,

893
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:05.840
you know, I don't want to take over your ship

894
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:08.440
or you know, anything like that, and then Spock really

895
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:10.079
just you know, goes in and tells him you know,

896
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:12.760
you know, my ego can't be bruised, you know.

897
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.079
And I love all of.

898
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.320
The things between those two because you really see their

899
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:24.239
friendship at its height here, and they really care for

900
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:26.280
one another, and you can tell Spock cares, you know,

901
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:28.360
even though you know he has to keep those emotions

902
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:28.760
in check.

903
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.360
And we all know where it's leading obviously, you know,

904
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:34.199
the death of Spock.

905
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:38.800
But I just appreciated that because it keeps coming back

906
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.280
that Kirk should never have given up that chair. Even

907
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.719
McCoy talked about that. I believe in the motion picture

908
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.440
he should never have given up that chair. And then

909
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:48.280
this is you know, Spock is really you know, telling

910
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.599
him about that as well. So that's one of my

911
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:51.599
favorite scenes of this film.

912
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.880
Way well, you know, I'm the same way. I don't

913
00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:57.360
want to pick one of the obvious ones. But one

914
00:47:57.400 --> 00:47:59.800
of the little scenes that I absolutely love is when

915
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:05.320
they're in the Genesis Cave and Kirk finally reveals how

916
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:09.599
he managed to do the Kobayashi maru, how he managed

917
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:13.599
to win that to to Savog and her surprise to it,

918
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:15.320
and then you know, he takes a bite of the apple,

919
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:18.639
flips his communicator open and says you know, I don't

920
00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.599
like to lose, and you know, finds out everything's been

921
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:25.599
planned and she goes, you lied, and he goes, I exaggerated,

922
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:28.599
And I love that scene. I mean that shows that

923
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:32.599
shows Kirk. That's that's the Kirk that we remember. He

924
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.559
had everything planned out, he knew exactly what to do.

925
00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:36.079
I love that.

926
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.920
Yeah, well you even mentioned the I exaggerated like and

927
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.880
Spock playing along, yeah, like he can motion this still

928
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:50.039
deliver comedic moment and still be like I'm clever enough

929
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:50.400
to do this.

930
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:55.360
Yep. All right, now is the time I usually talk

931
00:48:55.400 --> 00:48:59.039
about Easter eggs, but we're traveling back forty plus years

932
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:02.320
to discuss this film. There really isn't too many Easter eggs,

933
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:03.719
as you would call this, so I'm gonna call this

934
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:08.880
film facts. There we go. When the film first appeared

935
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:11.559
in theaters in June of nineteen eighty two, the opening

936
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:14.719
credits of this movie simply listed Star Trek The Wrath

937
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.280
of con You know, since the first film was titled

938
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:20.400
Star Trek the Motion Picture, there was no Star Trek

939
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:22.840
one on it. They didn't include the two that didn't

940
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:27.400
come out until later showings in the video release and

941
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.079
for all you weird Star Trek fans out there like me.

942
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:33.519
The opening scenes of Star Trek two take place on

943
00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:38.039
March twenty second, twenty two eighty five. I know this

944
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.320
because Kirk mentions that it's his birthday, and in the

945
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:44.719
Star Trek Enterprise episode in The Mere Darkly Part two,

946
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:48.400
the computer screen establishes Kirk's birth to be on March

947
00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:51.079
twenty second, and that also happens to be William Shatner's

948
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:56.880
birthday as well. This is the only Original series movie

949
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.079
in which a Federation ship fires its phaser. I don't

950
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:04.360
know if you guys realized that all the other films

951
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.559
have them aspiring foot on torpedoes. You know, the next

952
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.880
time we see the phasers being felt are being shot

953
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:14.519
was The Enterprise d and Startrek Generations. Yep, all right.

954
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:18.920
This film earned fourteen million, three hundred and forty seven

955
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:21.920
thousand at the US box office on its opening weekend.

956
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:25.360
That was a record that wouldn't be broken until the

957
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:28.920
release of Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom. Of course,

958
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.679
The Search for Spock made a lot more money than this,

959
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:35.599
and the film ended up making about ninety two million,

960
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:37.639
which is not bad for a twelve million dollar film.

961
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.840
As with the motion picture, the movie was pre sold

962
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:44.760
to the ABCTV network for a first time airing in

963
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:49.320
the US. This entitled two airings for the film, which

964
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:53.360
included deleted and alternate scenes, and it was also lightly

965
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:57.719
censored for TV viewing. But this version, this extended version

966
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:01.159
that was shown, unlike the motion pictures, never been released,

967
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.280
not on VHS, DVD, Blu ray. There's no way to

968
00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:08.039
see it unless, of course, she recorded the original airings

969
00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:13.000
of them. This film was novelized by Bonda in McIntyre

970
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.360
and adapted into a photos story by Richard and Noble,

971
00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:20.039
But unlike the motion picture and every other Star Trek

972
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:23.320
film after it, it never got a comic book adaption.

973
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:27.199
But this was finally corrected in two thousand and nine.

974
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:31.199
IDW wrote a three issue series to finally fill in

975
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.920
that gap so that we have the complete series. And finally,

976
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.679
there were very little in the way of tie in

977
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.159
merchandise for this film. They kind of got burned with

978
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.400
the motion picture, so no one was really willing to

979
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.480
take any contracts for this. Like I said, there were

980
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:49.199
no comic books, no action figures, toys, no food promotions.

981
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:52.559
All we got was a release of you Master reels

982
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:56.039
with some images of the film. Star Log Magazine released

983
00:51:56.039 --> 00:52:00.440
an official movie poster magazine, and that's about it. We

984
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.199
did get a Con and Savig action figure years later

985
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:07.679
from Playmates, but there was very little for us kids

986
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.480
to bring home after watching this film. Doesn't need a

987
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:13.920
lot of clay, right way, I did. I use a

988
00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:16.000
lot of clay for this, but hey, I have some

989
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:21.320
good memories of playing with those ships. You know. That's awesome. Hey,

990
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:23.920
you guys have anything else to add about Star Trek

991
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:25.880
two that hasn't been said, because this film has been

992
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:29.840
talked about a lot. It is Nope, all right, and

993
00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:32.400
that concludes our look back on the film Star Trek

994
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.320
to the wrath of con We'd like to open a

995
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:37.800
channel to our listeners and here just what you thought

996
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:41.159
about this entry into the Star Trek universe, your stories

997
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:43.360
of how you saw it first, and your opinions of

998
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:45.760
the film today. Who knows, you might even get a

999
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.280
mention on a future show. Of course. You can email

1000
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:52.079
us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com,

1001
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:55.360
find us online at a film by podcast dot com,

1002
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:59.559
follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and x and if you're

1003
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.400
looking for exclusive contact or swag. You can join our

1004
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:06.199
Patreon and find out what hidden gems are within. Thank

1005
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:08.559
you David and Scott for joining me and the listeners

1006
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.960
for another fascinating discussion. Thanks Yeah pleasure. For those of

1007
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:16.039
you that missed it, you can check out our film

1008
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:18.840
by website and listen to the film at forty five

1009
00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:21.440
podcast on our thoughts and feelings about Star Trek the

1010
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:25.199
Motion Picture, and then join us again soon when we

1011
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.519
churn our targeting sensors to Star Trek three the search

1012
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:32.239
for Spock. Hopefully we'll find him, and we hope that

1013
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.719
everyone will join us again for that discussion on the

1014
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:39.400
next episode of Phasers set to stun go on.

1015
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:49.199
So I have one more question, but I don't know

1016
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.440
if we had in our outline, but what just curious

1017
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.960
if we don't want to put it in. If you're

1018
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:57.239
could have been anyone in this film, who would it be?

1019
00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:00.000
And why oh so many characters go through so much

1020
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:03.679
this film. You know, I'm thinking, and I don't want

1021
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:05.039
to be him. I definitely don't want to be checkof

1022
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:06.400
because I don't want that thing in my ear.

1023
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:07.079
No