Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek IV The Voyage Home

0:01 Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows, both new and old, to engage and debate about all things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phasers Set to Stunt, where we continue to show our love for everything Star Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of Trek by covering television, animation, movies, directors, and much more.

0:56 Plotting the course as always as your core Trek crew, I'm David. Byrne, I'm Scott Hoffman, and I'm Wayne Whited. All right, gentlemen, Before we get started, I wanted to make a shout out to one of our listeners, Jason Koslet. Thank you for all your feedback and messages. We welcome them and it's always nice to hear from other fans of Star Trek who love and adore this franchise as much as we do. Oh yeah, and don't worry, we will be getting to the Undiscovered Country very soon, as that is one of my favorite Star Trek films of all time. Keep listening, Jason. We appreciate it, all right. I'm sure there are some people out there who have not seen The Voyage Home. So just in case, here is your warning. Here is your red alert that we usually do movies from nineteen eighty six. I figured a lot of you have seen it, but we have some younger listeners who may not have got a chance. So go watch it, come back and join us. We are bringing the trilogy to a close. That is the Wrath of Khan, the Search for Spock, and the Voyage Home trilogy.

1:54 We're heading back home with our og crew, even though it is a little bit of a trip to get there, a trip that will take that to the past to retrieve something they least expected. Opening thoughts of this film a film well received by everyone, critics and fans alike, with a great message for all, including the opening title card, which I'm going to read. The cast and crew of Star Trek wish to dedicate this film to the men and women of the spaceship Challenger, whose courageous spirit shall live to the twentieth century and beyond. We hear phasers give a shout out to the Challenger crew as well. Film directed by Lenna ni Moy and I do agree with him on this. We did need a lighter film because we have had some serious stuff going on in the last couple of films. So it's kind of nice that we get to lay back a little bit and relax. Guys.

2:46 I think he did a much better job of directing this film. I really do. Don't get me wrong. I like The Search Respot, but this one, man, he just knocked it out of the park. Well, it has so much more energy to it. Yeah, the completely different kind of energy. But you know, and you've got nineteen eighty six. We'll talk about that in a couple of minutes. There's a reason that Week covered it so much in that series four years ago, which is astonishing to think it's been that long. I know, but you know, it's prime time to get into a movie like this that has brought a reach. Yeah. Absolutely. The Voyage Home was nominated for four Academy Awards, Best Cinematography, Best Sound, Best Sound Effects, Editing, and Original Score, which we'll get to that composer a little bit later.

3:28 Scott tell us what it's. All about writing out The cinematic trilogy is a trip back to nineteen eighty six, San Francisco, where the key to saving the future lies in saving an extinct species in the past. Humpback whales George and Gracie are the only mammals that can speak to an alien probe that's threatening the Federation and the Earth itself. In the future. With the Enterprise destroyed, Admiral Kirk is leading his trusted crew aboard the recently acquired HMS Bounty, a Klingon bird of Prey that's causing tensions between the Klingons and the Federation. Kirk and crew are heading home and facing a court martial due to the actions that it took to save Spot from the Genesis planet. They discovered the threat, and thanks to the skills of Herra and Spock, find out that the extinct whales are the only ones who can reply to the mysterious probe. They fly to the Bird of Prey back in time to rescue George and Gracie and restore the only cetacean species that can keep peace with the aliens despite the ominous threat. It's a comedic end to the dramatic trilogy that brings the Enterprise crew full circle and breathes even more new life into a classic franchise.

4:29 This was a very satisfying story. Yeah, it really, it really was. You know, you could sit back and laugh and just relax and enjoy watching this crew on screen. You got to see them just mingle among each other again like they always did and you know the original series, and it just felt like we were back hitting that stride again. But yeah, I mean there's so many laughs in this movie and just such a good time with this crew that even when I was a kid i saw this in theater. I just enjoyed this movie so much, just like everybody else. Yeah, I mean, you know a callback to the nineteen eighty six episode that we did for this, if you're looking for it, it's called Star Trek four. That was Dave you and I had a chance to speak with Jeff Dayton and Brad if you want to go back into the wayback machine, and here's some of the ways thoughts on this.

5:25 Yeah. I was actually surprised to hear that Brad actually mentioned the idea of this being a trilogy first. But Wayne, you've been talking about it recently and it's brought it home for me how much this connects. And I think having something that is more of a comedy than a drama. Helps to show how much range Star Trek has and helps to make this more rewatchable, I think than a lot. Of the other movies. As far as our show Phasers is concerned. It's also kind of a somewhat of an interesting anniversary because if you listen to that nineteen eighty six episode, you'll hear Jeff talk about how he wanted to get into the next generation, but Brad said it felt like too much to pour through seven seasons and we did so. Yeah, we did it ye message for Phasers, But to your point, you know, I think he absolutely knocked it out of the park with us and made a great choice to have a Star Trek entry that had more of a message for present day speaking to you know, preservation and the fact that you can't recreate their language. You'd be speaking in Jewish, so there's an important reason to save these species that are going to sainct. But did it with a great balance of comedy, Like it's got a heavy theme behind it, but it makes it fun.

6:45 It does. Yeah, you know, we've been saying this it was a trilogy and I can't see it past being a trilogy, so it's the chapter third chapter. In the story. And because of that, and. Because of the lighthearted tone of the film, it's very high on my list of top Star Trek films. I actually put this a little bit above Star Trek three, but not quite Star Trek two. But I think Leonard Nimoy did a fantastic job at directing this. You know, it has a great happy ending, which you know, we wanted after everything that had happened in Star Trek two and three. We needed that happy ending.

7:26 You know, I got a lot of good memories from this film, you know, from watching it, from from discovering it. You know, I wasn't a Star Trek fan when this came out. I was close, probably another year away from that, but you know, I as a kid, I just loved it because it's not just a film made for Star Trek fans. It's really made for the general public. You know, it's very. Accessible to the regular movie goers that really don't know anything about Star Trek, and that is what was needed at the time. You know. Then that's why I think this film is so successful. And in saying that, it's really strange that it works like that, and it does anybody can watch this movie and enjoy it. You don't have to be a Star Trek fan, right, And it's it's But what's strange is the fact that the way it picks up, I mean, because it picks up as it was almost coming off of it to be continued right from the Search for Spock and you but you still are comfortable because they explain so much at the beginning of this film that you're okay to just jump right into this movie if you don't have any history of it.

8:28 Yeah, and it's got it. It's got a separate story, so it's not like you have to see start Tar two and three to I understand what's going on. I mean, that's that's the way you make a good film is you don't have to bog it down with with what's came before. And it's a it's a great script. It's got some really good comedy in it, some very and it's in a thoughtful message, so I mean that's easily accessible to the audiences. Yeah. And the film is beautifully paced. Yeah, like there's you never get bored on this film. It's just it just moves so smoothly from beginning to end, and you know even even that ending that we'll get to here in a little while, it just it just felt so natural and needed that it just it was the perfect ending of this trilogy.

9:08 Yeah, it flies by really fast when you watch it. It's the flow is perfect. Absolutely. Well, let's let's talk a little bit about the cast. I mean, we obviously know the main crew that we got here, but we've got a couple, We've got one big additional which of course is Catherine Hicks as a Jillian. I thought her chemistry with William Shatner and Lenny moy was spot on. Oh perfect. Yeah, yeah, I think it was a good call to make that kind of a It's not just Kirk and doctor Gillian, right, it's Kirk and Spock and doctor Gillian. So it's this great comedic trio that they kind of set up. And there are some some hints there might be you know, uh, they go on a date, so to speak, but she's probably not thinking of it as a date. She's thinking this is like I have my hand on speed dial with the cops just in case, but I'll take this guy out and give him a chance.

10:10 I think it has some of the best comedic moments with Leonard and me boy, oh yes, like when they're arguing about whether or not he likes Italian. I know that was I think that was improvt it was, but it's it's showing, you know, great comedic talent and pacing for that. And I think Catherine Hicks is a great job in the role. There are a couple of times when it feels like she has this dramatic kind of whipping her head to the side with a raised eyebrow, which always kind of catches me. But overall, I think she does a great job. And you know, as future head of cetacean ops in the future, I assume. And she did do a great job, and her character was needed for a film like especially a time travel film. Yeah, you know you've got all this, you know, twenty third century technology and the characters and stuff, and first the general audience who doesn't know Star Trek, you know, they need someone to latch onto, someone that's relatable, and Catherine Hicks did a phenomenal job. The whole character of Jillian was written perfectly. You know, she kind of reminds me of like the Companions and doctor who you know, those are the character that's written for the public to latch onto and be relatable, and she's just fantastic. Plus you know, like you said, her chemistry is phenomenal with especially with William Shatner.

11:28 Yeah. Absolutely. You know, Scott, you mentioned the comedy and stuff on her that you've got with you know, Walliam Shatner and Lennonimoy their scene where they're walking away and they're talking about well, Kirk is telling him, you really need to not talk like them in this present day in eighty six because you're not good at it. You're not good at it, And I just I love that whole scene. And then when it led up to their towards the end when they're getting on the ship and they're getting ready to take off and Jillian's with them, and Kirk comes on the bridge starts getting orders and spots like one damn minute. Yeah, that's so funny. It was a per company and it really reminded me of Data on the Next Generation when he was trying to find you know, emotions until he got the Emotion Ship.

12:17 It really felt like that was Spock in this movie. Do you guys agree with that? Yeah? Yeah, I mean, you know, looking at both those characters are meant to be very dry, very emotionless, but it sets them up to have the best comedic moments because it comes from an unexpected place. It feels like it's also a good set up or a good bridge to the next movie where we feel like we see more of a relaxed spock Like when they're camping with McCoy and Jim. It just feels like it's a it's a good bridge to a new kind of spock Like. And it could have been intentional to see round post production of Star Trek four was when they were starting to create the Next Generation. They may have realized that how well Spot came across in this film and try to transfer some of that into Davia's character.

13:11 Yeah, I remember there there was a VHS tape of Star Trek the Voyage Home that trailered the Next Generation Voyage Home. Yeah, it was the first footage of the Next Generation that anyone anybody's seen. I remember that so clearly. I don't have a copy of it anymore, but I remember that because it had it had weird sound effects and yeah, unfinished visual effects, and you know, people would be they'd hold their phrasers up to get shot, to shoot but nothing would come out of it. But it was the first footage that we'd ever seen and it got everybody excited. Yeah. Absolutely, all right, Well, let's take let's take a little break. When we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about a couple of the cast members, and then we'll start discussing more of this film. We'll be right back, all right, listeners, welcome back to Phasers Set the stun where we were continuing our discussion of Star Trek the Voyage Home. Talk a little bit more about some of these cast members. Robin Curtis returns as Savac. Unfortunately we don't see her anymore, and it's very aggravating that we don't get her. I understand that they kind of didn't want two vulcans, you know, on Earth in the past, but come on, we really should have done more with Savag.

14:23 I miss her so much and I wish we'd gotten more. Yeah, I agree. It would have been interesting to see how Robin Curtis would have handled a romulin vulcan with comedic beats, maybe staying on the ship, like maybe that's the person that stays on the Bird of Prey and has to handle certain comedic beats. From there, right, Yeah. Certainly would have been some potential. Maybe there's an alternate reality video star where we get a little bit more there. But I agree to your earlier point that the timing here is so well done and the flow is so smooth, I can't imagine a different way. Yeah, I completely agree. It was nice having Mark Leonard back as Seric. You know, he had a kind of an important role in this bee because he really does defend Kirk and the crew. I guess the Glencon's there at the beginning, which I thought was perfect that for that role right there, perfect person to do it too, ambassador sort yep.

15:21 I'm not sure who has the line, but it'd be great if there is an easter egg that says it's Mark Leonard as Seric, that says you pompous ass in that scene. And don't forget we got the return of Jane Wyatt as Amanda Spocks. We do too, the first time he'd seen her since the original series. So it too bad they couldn't have had both of them together, but you know, it's great to see them again. Yeah, it certainly was. Well, let's let's dive into this movie a little bit more guys. You know, we get a new composer with this one, and just like this being a lighthearted film, the music was lighthearted along with it. You know, one of my favorite pieces is whole opening of this. That a beautiful piece of music to open this up with. When we get to see you know, the title card of the film, you know, beam in, and then we go through all you know, the titles and stuff like that. I really really did enjoy that.

16:15 But I like how we dive into the story really quick too. And I said earlier that you kind of get the vibe of the motion picture, you do, hear, right, Yeah, because we have this this probe coming very similar to Will we got in the motion picture that was coming to Earth and they didn't know what it was coming for what it wanted, and obviously they figured it out a little bit quicker they did the motion picture. But hey, except this time, you know, unlike with the motion picture where pretty much everything was explained about about Vigure, we really are left at the end of this film knowing very little about what the heck just happened and what that was. And they've never returned to it. I mean, the only time that we've ever seen it is in the title sequence of Lower Decks. That's it never mentioned at all. It's still open for someone. Come on, now, you know, tell us tell us more.

17:01 It would be nice to revisit that. Yeah, it really would. I think. I think Spock mentioned something briefly in the film where he says that there's a higher intelligence out there who you know, we they haven't heard from the whales in are years, and that's why they sent that probe. I mean, that doesn't give us a perfect explanation of it, but I think he was onto something when he said that. He wasn't sure, of course, but it would be nice to get that explanation way. And I agree with you. Yeah, and it's interesting that you know, where we all think, you know, human beings, that's you know, we're the most important thing on the planets. But the idea of an alien race actually communicating with something else on the planets here, the humpback whales, that's a really fascinating idea.

17:47 I think they should do more of that. I agree. I think it'd be interesting to see if they're if the probe is is manned in any way or piloted by living being, because it'd be interesting to think about a cetacean an exclusively cetacean planet, right, since it has the same even the nonverbal mechanics of the probe. So when the humpback whales are singing, they actually tilt themselves at a ninety degree angle, so it's like they're doing headstands, right, and when the probe here's that, it mimics that positioning. So it's fair to say that in the entire galaxy, maybe there's another planet. Maybe it's outside of the galaxy that is popularly should populated by humpback whales or similar type species be an interesting thing to explore.

18:42 It would be come on, paramount, let's get this going. Come on here, yep, I like it. Even if it's an episode of something, let's do it. That would be flawn to explore. Well, And I know we mentioned this in the eighty six episode, but the original idea to have subtitles and this one, I'm really glad I'll double that on that that they did not make that, yes. Choice here, Yeah, that would have beene a mistake. Yeah, I think it works really well for communic purposes and lower decks. Well, we could hear the dolphin crew, right, but we didn't need it here. I think it would just get in the way. It really added to the drama of the story of not knowing what was being said. So very smart choice of not adding that. And I've said this before on a lot of other things, that you know, we don't need to know what everything's what everything's been said. We don't be everything translated. I mean, none of the characters knew what they were saying, so why should we, I mean, you want to relate with the characters, So it makes perfect that since they wouldn't give subtitles on it.

19:39 Yeah. Absolutely, So to go back a little bit to talk about the trial that they were having there at the Beg in the beginning with the Klingons, we're starting to see some themes that we're going to see come back and Undiscovered Country, we're starting to see that build up. Grant, we have the final Frontier, but then when we do get the Undiscovered Country, we move into a lot of Klingon stuff, and obviously that hatred for Kirk is still there and we're going to see more of that for sure. Yeah, I thought it was, you know, thinking of this as a trilogy, it's also interesting to think about kind of the almost the leap frog effect that it has to Undiscovered Country because we get introduced to Brock Peters as Admiral Cartwright, who is obviously very important in Undiscovered Country, and John Shuck, who is just listed as Klingon ambassador.

20:30 I feel like he has an actual name that comes out there, but that there's very instrumental characters in that whole plot line, and that in that trial they start talking about peace talks with the Klingons, which I didn't even know was thought of until Undiscovered Country. So it's interesting to see that kind of bridge. Yeah, and they're they're they're building that, you know, that world with that, and I love that that they could revisit it with Undiscovered Country a really young no. Ye, Well, as you guys know, we know we move on the crew still sitting on Vulcan because they're basically waiting for Spock to get back to being Spock, and he really doesn't get there until towards the end of this film.

21:10 I know we kind of briefly touched on this a little bit ago about you know, Spock becoming the Spock that we know, and you're getting to see that comedy doesn't really mean it, but he can't help it because he's learning again. You know, even that first introduction one, he's when Kirk was like, you can call me Jim, call me Jim. Then in Spock was obviously being the officer. I can't do that. You know, you're you're you're the admiral. I can't do that. And eventually he gets comfortable with that again and becomes that friend that Kirk has known and that the crew has known for so long. And it's nice that he gets back into that form by the end of this film. Yeah, they do a very smart They make a very smart choice in this one by making comedic pairs.

21:55 Mm hm. So you've got McCoy and Scottie, you've got HERA and check Off, and you've cut Jim and Spock. And I think forcing Jim and Spock together helps to kind of draw out a little bit of the human side of Spock that maybe he had forgotten, especially you know, exploring nineteen eighty six. And it doesn't get more immersive human than the trip that they take right on the bus in the Cetacean Institute, even though they don't have pizza together, you know, driving around on the truck. There's a lot of instances where it's necessary for him to understand where humans are coming from. I kind of see that lighter side of Jim.

22:35 Yeah. And unlike Star Trek three, all of the main Star Trek crew got their time in this film. Yes, they all got their their comedic moments. They all get their time to shine in this film. It's so nice to see some of these other characters getting these very memorable moments that are still talked about today. Yeah. I mean it's a nice thing. Horror again for crying out. I know we had her in Search for Spop, but not as much as we needed her. It's nice to see her back with this true ending what she does best. And doing something being actually involved in the. Actual plot of the film. Yeah, absolutely well, and being instrumental to a certain degree, even though she doesn't necessarily get she has more dialogue, and it seems like if this was kind of written with today's strange new worlds of her in mind, they might dial that up a little bit further to say, this is an expert in communications and it's a crew that's trying to relate to nineteen eighty six sensibilities, So she would be best equipped to navigate the nuances right and understand how to talk to somebody and how to get directions to the you know, Elamita and they're struggling, but you know, everything she does to you know, kind of DJ the probes communications to figure out that it's a humpback whale, right, It opens a lot of possibilities for her, and I think that's part of what helps to open up that character not only in the rest of the movies, but in Strange New Worlds as well.

24:05 Yeah, it's it's even nice to have McCoy back. I mean, I know we had McCoy and searched with Spock, but he wasn't himself obviously, so it's nice to have that again. And what I like about his character in this one is that he is trying to connect with Spock again. You know that when they're on the bridge and you know, he walks up the things goes, are you busy? And Spock's like her as busy I am monitoring, and just that that rough between the two of them right there, and then when he says, excuse me, doctor, but I'm receiving a bunch of distress called the stress calls McCoy's like, I don't. Doubt that. Of all the six original films with the crew really in this film is the one that feels the closest in characterizations to the original series and the way they interact.

24:52 You know, they all have great lines. It really feels like Kirk, Spock and McCoy and the friendship, it's all there in this film. Yeah, that history has come back. You can see that that they've been together for years and they should be like this. This is some of the elements that were missing in the earlier films. It was there bits and pieces, but it's nice to see it perfectly fitted here. And I think we owe that to Leonard Nimoy of that happens. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I think, you know, Nimoy is a good director anyways, but you know, he just he knew Star Trek and and was able to put together and get this this crew that these these actors to really bring their best performances out, you know, fantastic.

25:35 You know. One of my favorite favorite favorite moments in this entire film was when they were at the looking at the whales and Gillane is giving her speech and Kirk is looking around for Spock and Spock is not there. Oh yeah, and then the reaction on kirk face when he realizes Spock is a lot swimming with the whales. That moment, it made me makes me laugh so hard, and it still does just thinking about it. Yeah, that's Deree shot too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my one of my favorite scenes is includes one of my favorite lines, but also includes one of the things that keeps making me kind of scratch my head.

26:22 And then I just say, it's nineteen eighty six. Just relax. But Scotty and McCoy at the plastics factory, I love that scene number one. So the security in nineteen eighty six in several places is apparently seriously wanting yes, because anybody can just walk in like they could have been from a competitive plastics company that just sneaks in and decides to write right, but the to say nothing of the hospital security. But we've. Scotty's line where he picks up the mouse and he says, had no computer. It's so fantastic. But then at least right into the part that always makes me like we could have done a little better, when he's punching in the equation for transparent aluminum. Oh yeah, by just like tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap, like hitting random, like he could have spelled out like the duck loves to quack and somehow makes right. There's no mouse, there's no nothing else done. He's just like with one finger, yeah, lop and get the keyboard and somehow it gets it to do like autocat drawings.

27:36 I just that drawing popping. I'm like, oh, come on, really right. What key structure you hitting on the nineteen eighty six back? Yeah, no way, come on man, But that's all right. Yeah, I forgive that because the movie is so good. You know, a nothing that we need to forgive, you know, the the preaching that we always get about breaking that prime directive or breaking temporal off. Oh yeah, yeah. When Chekhov throws the phaser and just runs away. Hello, what are you doing? Yeah you're not You're not supposed to do that. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of that. I mean, you really think about what they did back in time. You know that we got we got that, We've got the kidnapping and the disappearance of the two whales and and Gillian Taylor.

28:22 We've got. You know, the break into the and and alert at the aircraft carrier, the use of enterprise, and then we got the appearance to that cling on bird of prey and and you gotta wonder, you know, I did kirk and and his company get a visit from the the temporal authorities of Starfleet at the time because they really need a mess of the fast they did. Yeah, even even Scotty's transparent aluminium that we were just talking about that scene. I mean, you know there's that too. I mean justification of like, well, how do we know he didn't invent the thing, but how did you I mean like intercepted somebody who is critically important that you know, it's like.

29:07 You just became part of history. It's like Ryker's grandfather or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, there's got to be some kind of series at some point in the future where they get into that, and there's like the you know, the A day on the Job of the Temporal Squad or whatever they're they're called, right, and it's like, all right, we're gonna go clean up star Trek four. Not enough to doom, not enough to doo our reality, like the whales sure will allow it, but. You know, in their training. You know, if you're you're part you joined the Temple authorities and you you're in your training. I bet you today. It's not just a chapter, but there's a whole book about Kirk and this incident. You know, how to deal with this. They probably have tests. This is this is the this is the Kobayashi Maru version of that institute.

29:56 Yeah, yeah, we'll give you a checklist. Let's see how many things they've messed up about the past. So even McCoy in the hospital, I mean, dude, what are you doing? What are you doing? Hey? He gives medical tech that re grows a kidney and the lady can't stop talking about it. Aside from the fact that, like, you don't know if there's like any contraindications that might be some kind of meterful pill. Right, it's just like, well, I don't know anything about your medical history, but swallow this. And she's like okay, and just hops it. It's true, so many good things about this. It's just okay, Yeah, I can't. You're right, we need an episode that goes back to investigate all this stuff. Scott, you're onto something there too. Come on, we got some great ideas in this episode for your paramount. I hope you're listening.

30:42 Although it'd be interesting twist to say, like, Okay, we're gonna fix the fact that McCoy doesn't get the lady of the kidney pills, and then that somehow messes up the future, so they have to keep going back and back and back to say, like, how do we just twist some dials to get it just right right? And you know, not an interesting thing about this film is this is the only instance in which Kirk says Scottie beat me up. Yeah, isn't it funny how popular that became? And this is the only time he says it. Yep, that's right. Well, at least he finally said it. I mean, this is true. But uh yeah, I just found that humorous. And then in this film, a phasers only fired once once. Yes, and that's why you know it goes through shoot the doorknob.

31:29 And I never realized that until just just very recently watching this for this sub podcast. Yeah that's amazing, I know. And yeah, standing outside the door of that room or two police academy three trainees who apparently can't hear any of the ruckus going on inside, and they think, well, it's an operating room, which is usually just one person, but they really need this woman to be wheeled into brain surgery. Did we read out a room. Go ahead? No, I mean we're we're we're laughing at this everybody, But we all love this film. This is a fantastic film. You know, it's just it's just obviously some things that you know, it's just humorous to us in the Star Trek world. But you know, one thing I definitely want to talk about is the ending. You know, obviously we get the crew saving the whale, the whales and them basically crashing down into Earth, and then this that really cool scene of the crew just having a freaking good time with each other, you know, pulling each other into the water, swimming, watching the whales. You know, all that was just fantastic to see, just letting all that tension, that pressure out and just being the crew.

32:42 The friends have been with each other for a very very long time, who've been through hell and back many times. It was good to see that. Such a great scene, it really is. But then you get that additional piece of the court martial, and my favorite shot of this film is that shot where the bridge crew is standing there in front of the judge, and you get that shot that slowly dollies from each one of them as as they're being tried. And I love the fact of Spock when they said, Spock, you're not on trial here, and he basically says, yes, I am, because I stand here with my crew, and I just thought that was an incredible moment. But Kirk truly gets what he wants.

33:25 He gets demoted from admiral back to captain, which is really what he wanted all It was nice to see that. And then of course the crew not sure what ship they're going to get, even somebody mentions, hey, I may get the accessor would be okay, yes, right, And then of course you get that shot of the new Enterprise seventeen oh one A, which now introduces the lettering of the ships. I think it is yeah, which obviously, you know, we'll get more Enterprises down the road. Obviously we'll get Enterprise D, which is my favorite. But that's besides the point, because I love the next generation. But it's nice that they introduced that here in the voyage home and for the first time.

34:07 And great timing too, like when you mentioned how closely this falls back to back with next generation. That up that great semi mystery. I guess I would save of next generation to show kind of the numbering or the designation shows that a passage of time because we're introduced to the d so then it's kind of like, ooh, what happened to the others in the middle, right right, Yeah, it's a great scene. I imagine that the rest of the crew probably got busted down in rank because isn't Scottie is a captain, Spock is a captain. I don't know if Sulu is a captain, but you'd have a ship full of captains. I think they were all hardened.

34:48 But because the court said that really fell onto Kirk's head because it's correct. Yeah, true, true. Now you know that scene you were talking about, that court ord scene. I know you're sure if you guys ever realized, but when they walk into the room, the crew walks into the room behind them is both Christine Chappel and Janis Rand. It is the only time in Star Trek history that all of the original Star Trek crew, including them two are in the same shocked, same scene together. And that's that's something another thing that I just realized recently when I was rewatching this and that's amazing. That is yeah, and you blink, you'll miss it, but it's there. It's there, it is and it's a fantastic they did that and make sure that happened again. That's probably a litany more. Who pulled that one off?

35:34 I think so too. Yeah, we owe a lot for him for this film, No, no doubt about that. One. More minor bl blake and you'll miss it. Kind of a moment shout out to Dayton as a Go Gos fan. But Jane Widland rhythm guitarist and appears as a communications officer out in the background. It's very recognizable. But I'm like, is. That is that the letter from the Go Gos? And sure enough? It is. All right, Well, let's let's take another break, guys, we come back. We'll talk about a little bit behind the scenes and the score a little bit, so we'll be right back. All everybody, welcome back to Phaser Set the Sun, where we are continuing our discussion of the voyage home.

36:20 Let's talk a little bit behind the scenes. Let's talk about the whales, guys. Those were not real whales. Yeah, those were models, right, they were honest. They were they look real to. Me, real enough to draw some protests. Right right right? I forgot about that. That is incredible. You've done your job if you're able to pull that off and fool people to think they're real. Yeah, the kudos to those who created those whales, because that isn't you can't tell. Man, they did a fantastic job with those, the movements, everything with them. Which has got to be tricky to do in the water. Yeah right, I mean, I don't know how they did it, but it's it's great to know that it was. I mean, there are some real shots of real whales, but I think it was only when they surfaced, right.

37:09 Righteah, I think that. Yeah, the far shots again, yep. Yeah, but especially the one that Spock is swimming with. It was like, that's not a real Okay. I mean I guess that makes. Sense, but I but just insane that they were able to pull that off. And you know, kudas to them for the filmmakers for being able to do something like that, so especially in eighty six. I mean that if even you did that today, I don't know if you could make them look that good in CGI no, you know, you. Know, and this wasn't exactly the highest budget film either. I mean this was considered, you know, even would be considered today a low budget film. Then to pull that off, that's that's that's having your experts the right the right people in the right positions. Definitely. Yeah. And I think this is the first film to start trek film to break a hundred million, wasn't it.

37:53 Yes, it is, yeah, until the JJ Abrams film. Yeah. Yeah. And it shows how relay Belate is to the general viewers, the general public. Yeah. Absolutely. So I've got a question that I want to put out there for you guys and for the listeners out there. What happened to Maltz? Oh, the klingon Maltz? Where do you go? They never show him? I mean, granted has nothing to do with the story at all, who cares, But it's just funny that they just just disappears goodbye. I never consider that. But he had to be on the ship, so I would assume they handed him over to the to the Vulcan authorities or something. I don't know. I think some of the you know, Vulcan securities with the red cashew hats or yeah, probably took him to the side to say like, all right, we're gonna send you back to you know, Chronos. Uh, just hang out here, because I don't think they would you fly him with the ship back to no to Federation headquarters. But yeah, that's that's interesting. What about Malts?

38:58 What about Malts? I mean, I'm sure you're that to the at his imagination that the Vulcans took care of it. Still, I just think it's funny to think about where did you know, what about you guys? Anything interesting behind the scenes? Well, you know, I know we're going to get into a little bit of this on the wat IFFs, but you know, did you guys know who the original choice was to play as the main guest star of the film. I do, but go ahead, Blaine. H They originally had written the script to be a starring vehicle for Eddie Murphy. It's crazy crazy. He was a big fan of Star Trek and he wanted to be in the film. He approached in Nimoy about a role. And you know, they originally wrote the skip the scripts for him. He was going to be a college professor who was a UFO nut. And you know, I don't know, I don't I don't know. I get flashes of Star Trek, Star Trek, Superman three, you know and that. But yeah, but I just I don't think we would have had the film that we got.

40:01 You wouldn't have. Been quite at work. But he decided to do a different film. He decided to do The Golden Child, which he regrets now. He wished to see Woden start Trek for so Catherine hits. That the part. I'm glad it went that way. I mean, I love Edie Murphy, leave me. I think he's fantastic. I just think he would have changed the dynamic of this film and kind of overshadowed the shatnery mean. Boy in the other crew. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the places where I think where one of the few twists and turns where I think we're living in the best reality. Because Golden Child is one of my favorite movies, and I think having Eddie Murphy in that role would have been too much focus on Eddie Murphy. I think he would have done a fantastic job. I'd love to see the alternate reality video store where he's in it, but I feel like it would have been dialed too much toward him. It would be expecting the comedy from him, not necessarily from the crew.

41:00 So I think it was a good choice that we ended up with. Well, if we didn't get this, I wouldn't have got the I need to knife exactly. Come on, that's great. Love love that. It's fantastic. It really is. Well, speaking of what if, Wayne, since you've already talked about it, one of the things I found very interesting about this was William Shannon was originally reluctant to be in this, and he didn't know if he was going to continue with Star Trek at this point. So Limanimoy and har Bennett, who wrote this one, they actually considered a prequel with these characters at Starfleet Academy. How interesting would that have been. Yeah, that was the first time that the whole Starfleet Academy idea was brought up, which, yeah, it got brought up over and over and over again over the years until finally now they're actually making something about it. But yeah, yeah, he he didn't want to be in it, but then I guess they they coughed up the money and he.

41:56 Agreed to sign. I guess and thankfully so. You couldn't you couldn't. Do a classic Star Trek film without William Shatner. I'm sorry, there are you know without that character, now. Yep, there's there's no way. And I'm glad it worked out. I'm glad they were able to pony up the money and get him involved and get things going. And I know I'm sure he's thankful for that, because as successful as this film was. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, well I wouldn't have It would have deflated the whole trilogy idea, and it would have made I think it would have had repercussions in the subsequent movies versus what we got. I think is a really clean way to kind of take those characters to their natural end and kind of open the door for next generation. Yeah, oh absolutely. You know another thing that I found interesting about What If? And I believe the scene was written, but it was never filmed. It was deleted from it, and I just I when I read it, I'm like, I'm so glad they didn't do that. Apparently they had written a scene where Savag gets pregnant with Spock's child. Yeah, because stimming from the Pond far obviously that he was struggling with man. That just terrible.

43:01 I agree, Yeah, it seems reductive to take that kind of approach. It also makes up I don't know that much about pon Far. I didn't I was late that day when they taught the Birds and the Beast pot Far, but it felt like they were trying to say that she was helping him with emotional stress and emotional tensions and more like ritualistic kind of things. And you add that in there, it seems like he was going through some hormonal changes, you know, And then it feels like there's a sexual aspect of it that just isn't necessary. It just seems it is.

43:41 It doesn't set right, No, and I think I would have ruined the character of saving it would have. Yeah. I don't know if they actually filmed it or what, but I do know it's it's in the novel version, so I remember reading about it, and I didn't remember back then. Liking it all either. Thankfully that did not happen on screen, thank you for sure. No, thank would not even like that. Biologically, How does a genesis baby work right, right? Because if it does, it grow quickly or is it normal right? Right? Yeah, it's hard to say, but thankfully it didn't happen. Other things obviously, I think the original script title was the Trial of James T. Kirk that they were going to go with before, which obviously those elements would go on to be in the Undiscovered Country. So it's just again, I know we spoke about that earlier. How the elements of that are starting to already you know, roll here and we're getting to see some of that. But apparently Susan Sarandon too was considered for Gillian Taylor. Yeah, what do you guys think about that?

44:39 I mean, she would have proud a different uh you know, performance, but I think she would have done Okay, I prefer Catherine Hicks, but yeah, trying to put her in the position or in that part, Yeah, I think she would have done. Okay, I think so too. But just Katherine Hicks was awesome. Yeah, yeah, well, and it's very hard for me to separate Kather it's from a role in Child's Play. Oh yeah, and I wonder Little would have gotten her? Is that one of the stars of Child's Play without this movie. And so again I think we chose the right direction. Absolutely, we sure did. This film went through quite a few, you know, script rewrites, you know, not quite as much as some of the other films you know. At one time they, like we said, they had Eddie Murphy in it. He was playing a college professor who believes in aliens, likes to play whale songs.

45:28 But when he dropped out and they changed it. But some of the ideas that appeared in the script was the klingon burda prey was playing to appear over the Super Bowl halftime show. I don't know, which didn't last. Yeah, that didn't last very long. Paramount was not happy with anything that they delivered, so they actually brought in Nicholas Mayer to write a new version of the script. And what it was is Hart Bennett wrote the scenes for the twenty third century and Mayer wrote all twentieth century scenes. But in his. Original draft, at the end, Gillian Taylor was stayed on nineteen eighty six Earth and vowed to ensure the survival of the Humpbacks despite the paradox it would create. But then after taking notes from both the Nimoy and Shatner, Mayor re worked it so that she went with them.

46:23 And that's the script that we got. That was the script that the studio loved and finally got produced. And I'm glad she could win to the twenty first century with the crew. I am too. Again something else that needs to be explored to follow her. We never heard of her again either. It's odd that that Star Trek four seems to be the most ignored film and our events and Star Trek history. It's only brought up once, very briefly, in the third season of Star Trek a card, but that's it. It's weird, you know, considering how important this film is really everything that happens in it, never hear it again. Yeah, it's strange, I don't kid.

47:06 And she's essential to the whole journey because you're not only taking two whales to a future where nobody has known about them for a long time, ensuring their survival, but one of them also being pregnant. Yeah. I remember watching this in earlier viewings and not knowing that the whales are taking a certain position because of their songs. I thought it was some kind of distress. So I thought it was trying to imply they'll get George and Gracie back. But maybe Gracie dives in childbirth or has some kind of complication or something like that. So you'd need somebody who'd understand what's going on there and be able to deliver what ever kind of care they can.

47:48 Good point. Yeah, I like that too. Well, let's talk a little bit about the score, guys. We have a change up of who is composing this. I know lynnany Moy wanted Leonard Rosamand to do the score for the Search Firstpock, but obviously that didn't happen, so he did get him to compose this one, and I think he did a fantastic job in my opinion. I know, Lennad Roseman has been known for that East of Eden Rebel without a Calls, fantastic Voyage, Beneath the Planet Apes, and much much more. I think even did an amazing Stories episode waym yep. And he did, as you know, David, one of my favorite sixties TV series. He did scored every episode of Combat. That's right, great series and got some great music in it.

48:30 Yeah, he sure did. But I think Rosamond did a fantastic job on this. You know I mentioned earlier, like one of my favorite pieces was just that opening piece that he did. He really brought that lighthearted music to this film that just you know, you knew what you were in for when you got that At the beginning. You knew it was going to be a fun, enjoyable ride, and that's exactly what we got. And there's an interesting story about that, that opening main title music that he wrote. I guess the story goes that when he had his initial meetings with Leonard Nimoy about what Nimoy wanted for the score, Nimoy said that he wanted him to incorporate the Star Trek theme, the sixty Star Trek theme into the titles. So Rosamond wrote a great opening theme using Alexander Courage's sixties Star Trek theme the Dada, but then found out that he misunderstood what Nimoy wanted and that Nimoy wanted him to do what Horner had did and used the eight notes enterprise queue.

49:28 That da da da Da Da da da. So Rosamond had to go back and start all over again and bring this new theme. I never even realized this until the CD was released recently by Entrada and it's on there. It's it's interesting, but I'm kind of glad they didn't go with that. It didn't fit the movie. By him, there's a good move they didn't do that. Scott. I know one thing that we would find interesting is Rosamond used some of his score of The Lord of the Rings seventy eight film, uh in this score, which you and I covered at a film at Interest Life. Yeah, I didn't catch that. Yep, Well, I know the Usually when we talk about score, something I usually make note of is the range that they apply, and you definitely get that with this. You get some classic Star Trek elements that you need to have. But when you land in eighty six, it's a very eighty six song that's play on the background, right, and you get the heavily comedic score in the Hospital Escape. There's a lot of dynamics here to take into consideration. I've never listened to the score. It'd be very interesting to just pop the CD in and imagine what seene you're in and be like, what's happening right now?

50:43 It's a great score. It is great listen. You know. It hasn't been released very much. It's only actually been released twice, considering all the other scores got multiple releases. It was released back in nineteen eighty six on LPCD and cassette by MCA Records, and then, as I mentioned in trot to release it in twenty twelve, which you have com please score alternates on used cues that weird synth pop saxophone piece that was on the original one. And then also it has the full version of the I Hate You song by all of its explicit lyrics. So you know it's still available. Go get it. Yep, it's in my collection. Thanks, Wayne, You're welcome. All right, Well, let's move on to some Easter eggs. I know there's quite a few in here. Wayne. I know this is your favorite part, so please enlighten us.

51:32 Okay, Well, let's start off with us obsessive trekkies that with continuity and dating according to the date in the newspaper. The twentieth century events of the film take place on Thursday December eighteenth, nineteen eighty six, with the future events taking place in the year twenty two to eighty six, roughly three months after the events is Star Trek three. This also marks major Barrett's final performance. Is Christine Chapel in the franchise also estab that this is for the first time that Kirk was born in Iowa and that Sulu was born in San Francisco. Now, this slingshot effect that the Bounty uses to travel into the past was done twice before in the original series the episodes Tomorrow Is Yesterday and Assignment Earth. Kirk directly references these events when he says we've done it before. The Enterprise travels back exactly three hundred years, which explained Spock's comment that he had to program some of the variables from memory.

52:29 The table that you see in Starfley Command that they're working around that is the exact same prop table that was used in the main engineering of the USS Enterprise d became known as the Pool table. The shot of the bird of Prey that was heading into the Sun at warp speed was reused again one more time, just with a little bit of added disruptor fire in the episode of the Next Generation called Redemption two. Here's another little tidbit. The whale hunters were steeking finish in the scene where the Burder Prank appears over them, and we've got we talked about the VHS tape had the clip for the Next Generation. But these events cause a little bit of a problem with the writers for the DC Comics Star Trek comic book, because at the end of Star Trek three, they had Kirk and this crew with Spock continue their adventures aboard the Excelsior for two years, not knowing what was going to be written for Star Trek four. So in order to connect to this film's events, they had Spock's mine ravaged by a virus, forcing Kirk and his crew to take the Hmist Bounty, which is docked within Thecelsior, and return him to Vulkan. Well, you know, they had to do something to straighten things out.

53:48 Now. Star Trek four's network television premiere occurred on March fourth, nineteen ninety the edition of the ABC Sunday Night Movie This This is what debuted the first three films as well. Well. This would be the last Star Trek film that ABC would debut until their network premiere of Star Trek First Contact All the Way in nineteen ninety nine. And finally, I'll go over some of the merchandise. And there really wasn't very much to promote this film, mainly due to the lackluster reception of the promotions for Star Trek three and the difficulty they had with marketing this film to the public, especially kids. Of course, there was the nineteen eighty six novelization, again written by Vonda in McIntyre. That book included many of the deleted scenes in the film, which also included a scene that was filmed with Sulu meeting his great grandfather as a child. Star Loog Press released two official movie magazines, both the Standard and Deluxe Edition, as well as an official poster magazine. There's, of course, I mentioned DC Comics Adoption, which was art by Tom Sutton and a fantastic cover by Howard Shakin. Faza did a source book update to their popular Star Trek role playing game, which.

54:57 I bought back in the way I bought it. There was a model kit for the USS Enterprise that included the NCC one seven oh one a decal, and finally, Stopping Go Foods, which was a convenience store, offered fans visiting their stores four different glow in the Dark plastic cups with original arc from the film featuring Kirk Spock, the Klingon, Bird of Prey, and the Trial. Nice. I feel like there must be another reality where Pizza Hut tried to glomb on to the promotions here, right, because you could have like a pizza box that folds out to you know, part of the saucer section and then the rest of the ship. You could have had the Federation logo kind of painted in Pepperoni's like it's a two topic pizza right, like they could have.

55:46 Done Yeah, I mean you got the pizza scenes in this film. They could have used it for the commercials and everything. It was a missed opportunity, exactly, very myss. Did you guys hear the one where it is believed the captain of the Saratoga is an ancestor of Jeordie LaForge. Interesting, well, it's the same actress that plays it is. That's why, that's why that rumor has gone out there that you know, maybe the captain of the Saratoga was some kind of ancestor. I'd like to think of that, I really do. Where's the female captain? We see? Right? Yeah? Yeah it is, it is? Yeah, it is. Yeah. So see once again, so many things come back to the Voyage Home, but addressed.

56:31 Feature series bring back lower decks. Unless we're writing all kinds of good episodes here, Come on, come on, paramount, get with it all right, gentlemen. Uh favorite moments. Of this movie, Wayne, Oh, there's a lot to love in this film, But the one moment that always gets me laughing is when we mentioned it earlier. Kirk McCoy and Jillian are sneaking to that hospital a rescue checkof when McCoy walks up to that old woman and goes, you know, what's wrong with you? And she goes need dialysis and you know, McCoy is shocked. You know, what is this the dark agent? I love that. And then later when they're running, you know, down the hallway trying to escape, she goes, you know, they run past that woman. Doctor gave me a pill and I got grew a new kidney. I love And that's just one of those great little moments that make the comedy work.

57:21 That scene has me rolling. I love that. Yeah, that's a good one, Wayne, very good one. Scott, what about you? Mine's what I mentioned before. But they're trying to decide, uh do they go to dinner for Italian? I think there's a great comedic timing in that, like, yes, we like Italian. I love Italian? And so do you? No? No, I guess you no. I don't No, I don't I guess you do. Then they drop them off the Yeah, I can't believe that she didn't see like in her rearview mirror she didn't glance up once and see him being great teleported up. But that's all right, come on, well she just you know, he took. To my ds.

58:03 So there's there's there's so many good scenes in this one, so many good moments. You guys have picked some really good ones there. There's two moments, two lines basically that comes from James Douhan that I absolutely love. One and James says it is his favorite line from a Scotty line, and that's when Admiral he says, Admiral, there'll be whales here. I love that line so much. And then the other, the other moment that I absolutely loved when is when Kirk was trying to explain to Scotty of what he needed to do, what he needed to build, and he says we're gonna have hunchbags and Scotty was like, hunchback people, Wales, Wales, Wales.

58:44 Absolutely love this two moments with Scotty. So many good moments in this one for sure, some good laughs. Good to see this crew back together, enjoying themselves once again once again. And White just like you said, you know, we're seeing the crew like we used to see them back in the television series and stuff like that, and from here on out that stays a site like this Final Frontier and the Undiscovered Country, which listeners we will be getting to. Don't worry, it's coming. But yeah, very very enjoyable film listeners. If you've not seen this, I'm sure you have if you're a Star Trek fan, but if you haven't, go watch it now. All right, listeners, So tell us what your favorite parts of this film was.

59:28 Let us know by sending an email to a Film by a Podcast at gmail dot com, or reach us online at a Film by Podcast dot com. Follow us on all the social media platforms, and if you're looking for more exclusive content and swag, send some Latinum our way through Patreon. See you next time for another Phaser Set to Stun. As always, Thanks Wayne, Thanks Scott for joining us on Phasers Set to Stun. Thanks that is a pleasure, and may fortune favor the foolish