Oct. 22, 2024

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek Nemesis

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek Nemesis
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Season 5Phasers Set To Stun

On "Phasers Set To Stun," we recognize the popularity of all things Star Trek, with a look at the television shows, animation, movies, and more. On this episode, our crew continues to delve into the films starring The Next Generation cast with a conversation about Star Trek Nemesis.

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WEBVTT

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Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation,

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our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows,

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both new and old, to engage and debate about all

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things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt.

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phaser Set the Stun,

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where we continue to show our love for everything Star

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Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast

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which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of

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Trek by covery television, animation, movies, directors, and much more.

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Plotting the course, as always is your Core Trek Crew.

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I'm David Byrne, and then I'm Sky Hoffman and I'm

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Wayne whited Red Alert.

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This episode is going to be full of spoilers, so

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if you haven't seen this film, please go do so

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and then come back to join us. We will be

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waiting a generation's final journey begins. All right, gentlemen and

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our listeners, we have officially reached the end of the

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motion pictures for our next generation crew. This film is

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kind of mixed among the fans, and I believe even

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us here at Phaser Set, that's done on our feelings

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about it, but we are going to get into that

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here shortly. This film was the first Star Trek not

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to name the cast in the opening credits, which should

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have been my first Red Alert. We have a bearded

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Wriker again, another stunning score by Jerry Goldsmith and my

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second Red Alert outsider Stuart Baird directing. Those in charge

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wanted a film about Romulins, and thus Star Trek Nemesis

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was born. But before we deeply dive into this film,

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Wayne tell us what it's about.

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After attending the wedding ceremony of William Reich and Deanna Troy,

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the Enterprise's trip to Betaz is delayed to investigate a

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mysterious energy reading on the planet Kolaris III, where they

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find the remnants of an android named B four, possibly

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a prototype for their own Commander data. Meanwhile, on the

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planet Romulus, the Romulan government is shaken when the leader

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of the slave race known as the Riemanns, a man

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called Chizon, takes control of the Romulin Senate and informs

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the Federation of his desire for peace. The Enterprise is

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ordered by Starfleet to open diplomatic talks with the new Creator,

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and Picard is shocked to learn that Chizon is in

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fact a younger clone of himself, a product of a

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Romulin plan to spy on the Federation long since abandoned.

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Picard and the crew of the Enterprise are skeptical of

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Chizon's offer for PEAPs and discover that his true motives

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lead to an invasion of the Federation and the extermination

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of all life on the planet Earth.

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Thanks Wayne. All right, gentlemen, let's talk about this film,

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all right. As I said before, there are mixed reviews

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about this film. You know, by no means do I

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absolutely hate it. There are some good stuff in here,

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which I know we're going to get into. But what

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do you guys think?

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Oh, okay, I'll go first.

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I've got mixed feelings about this film. It's not a

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bad film.

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It's just it's just.

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Not what we would have preferred to have been our

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last voyage of the Enterprise. It's really dark, really dark film,

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not just in story, but in look as well. Very green, yeah,

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you know, and and in that fact kind of depressing.

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But you know, the cast are phenomenal in it. You know,

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it's it's beautifully directed. I'm just not sure that the

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script is is up to motion picture quality for it.

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I think there are there are quite a few flaws.

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I know I'm a little divided on this one, but

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I just I'm not sure about the whole idea of

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Picard's clone. I don't think that really works, and I

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don't think it would have worked out. I just can't

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see him any way of it actually working on this film.

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Not to say Tom Hardy didn't do a good job.

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He just I'm not convinced. I never was convinced that

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he was a younger Cardy Scott.

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What I think with this one, I feel like my

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first experience is pretty consistent with every subsequent experience I

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have with this, which is excited about what I think

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I'm going to see, but then ultimately kind of disappointed

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with the result. There are a lot of times it

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kind of feels like Phantom, Menace and Dayton. I'm not,

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you know, digging into the bashing here, but I mean

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I have that association with the idea that I remember

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it in a certain way, and then when I get

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into it, I can see very specific parts that I'd

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like to cut out, parts where I was I'd be

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curiou to see what kind of a movie it could

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have been without some of those elements, some of those

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things that maybe they would have fixed. But in terms

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of continuity, I find myself coming back to it every

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so often. It's not a favorite like Undiscovered Country or

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First Contact by any stretch, but it does help to

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fill in some gaps. It does help to answer some

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questions that are ultimately addressed in the Picard series in

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a couple of different ways.

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It does.

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Yeah, But then beyond that, it's just like, yeah, now

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I remember, it's got these big problems.

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It's hard to hate this film because everyone in it,

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from the actors to the to the production you're doing

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their hardest to make this a great film. You can

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see it on the screen, but the script just in

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my opinion, just isn't up to it yet.

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Yeah, I agree, And this was not a box office success.

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As a matter of fact, it made the least amount

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of money of all of the Star Trek films, you know,

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Star Trek Find the Final Frontier even made more in

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that's a big ouch in my hand, could be a

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big ouch. Apparently, Patrick Stewart was not a fan of

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this film. A lot of them weren't, and sort of

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blame the failure on franchise fatigue as the reason for

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the poor box office results.

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That's possible.

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I mean, look at how much Star Trek we were

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getting a bit well let's see, this would have come

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out a year after Voyager was that we had Enterprise. Yeah,

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I think we were all suffering from a little bit

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of Star Trek fatigue at the time.

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Yeah, I think so. And you know, in Frank's Curtis

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and Burton, they criticized Baird for his direction of this film.

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You know, apparently you know, he hated the Star Trek

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universe and knew nothing about it. Yeah, and he even

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thought that apparently LeVar Burton was an alien with human

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cybernetic eyes. Yeah, why would you get this guy that?

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Even Frank said, if they'd approached me, I would have

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directed this.

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Well, I understand his name is Laverne.

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Oh yeah, for a while.

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And I'm just like, buddy, do a little bit of

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homework on this. And we don't know LeVar Burton outside

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of Star Trek. He's I mean, even Star Trek notwithstanding,

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LeVar Burden is a big name. So you get it right,

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maybe before you get on the set.

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Yeah, Well, you know, Stuart Bart, I can understand why

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they wanted him and why they hired him. He's no

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stranger to films. I mean, he's been around for a

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while and it has done a lot of stuff. You know,

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he directed Executive Decision and Us Marshall's. The only reason

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I know those films is because Jerry Golds miscord him.

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But you know, he was a long, long time film editor,

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especially for Richard Donners. So you know, that's a big name,

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and I can see them saying, hey, you know, wouldn't

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it be great. This guy's a rather large name. You know,

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you look at all the stuff he's done, wouldn't it

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be great for him to direct this? This our next

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Star Trek film. But on the flip side, as you said,

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he knows nothing.

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Of Star Trek.

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And you know, time and time again we've it's shown

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that when you stick someone that has no idea what's

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going on, it usually doesn't work out. It sounds like

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a great idea, but it never turns out.

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I'm looking at you, Angley in the Hawk. Yeah.

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Oh yeah, shutter, shutter, yeah. I mean it just seems

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like if this is supposed to be somewhat of their

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kind of swan song for Next Generation, and obviously for

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Brent Spiner's character data, apparently of his own design, which

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kind of surprised me. He felt that he was aging

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out of characters, so he wanted to hang it up.

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I understand that.

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I mean, he was like fifth O three, wasn't he

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when they need this?

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Yeah, so I get it.

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I get But by the same token, if that's if

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this is going to be almost the finale for the

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franchise on the big screen, have somebody step in that

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knows and respects what this is going to be by

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at least knowing something about the universe, right, Yeah.

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I agree, I agree, you know, and then hear the

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fact that Jonathan Fake said I would have loved to

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have directed this if they had approached me, and apparently

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they didn't. I kind of get it. You know, you

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want to bring maybe some fresh blood into this, but

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at least bring somebody who's got some kind of knowledge

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for crying out.

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Yeah.

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I think the reason why Paramount didn't approach him is

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because I think he was working on another film at

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the time when they first started production. Because this is

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out of all the Star Trek films of the Next

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Generation films, this is the one that had the longest

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gestation period, the longest time of pre production.

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It was almost two years. You know.

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The others barely got six months before they were done.

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So I think he was working on I think it

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was clock Stoppers, if I remember right, which I liked

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that film, That's all how I remember it.

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I liked that film. I thought he did a fantastic

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job for it. But I think for.

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A better film, we could have waited.

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Another six months.

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I do agree we should have waited a little bit longer,

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but I have We have the original cast in their

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irrespective roles. All of them do an absolutely incredible job.

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Brent Spiner once again having two different roles in this film,

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and did a fantastic job with both of them, as

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he has done through the entire run of The Next Gen.

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Oh he's an expert at that.

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Yeah, did a fantastic job. The guest stars, obviously, we

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know Tom Hardy, who plays as Hinzon. Apparently, Patrick Stewart

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was not a fan of Tom Hardy. He basically says,

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I didn't have a single exciting scene to play in.

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The actor who portrayed the movie's villain, Shenzon, was an odd,

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solitary young man from London. His name was Tom Hardy.

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Tom wouldn't engage with any of us on a social level,

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never said good morning, never said good night, and spent

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the hours he wasn't needed on set in his trailer

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with his girlfriend. He was by no means hostile. It

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was just challenging to establish any rapport with him. On

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the evening, Tom rapped his role. He characters who they

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left without ceremony or niceties, simply walking out of the

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door as it closed. I said quietly to Brent and Jonathan,

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and there it goes someone I think we shall never

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hear of again. Well he was wrong. Yeah, Tom Hardy

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is has turned in a pretty good actor.

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Yes, yeah, but this is one of his earliest roles.

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It is the only thing I can think of it

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that he did before This was Band of Brothers, and

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that was barely.

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A part in the first place.

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Yeah, this was he thought this was gonna be his

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breakout role, Tom Hardy thought, and I thought he did. Okay,

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I really do. I mean again, it's the script's fault.

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It's not Tom Hardy.

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Right, But he got his name out for this. I

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mean the film did succeed in the fact of getting

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his name out there and you know, yeah, that's about it.

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Yeah, I know, I know Hardy doesn't mean I think

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he was struggling with some drugs and stuff at this

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time too, So obviously that pulled him out of the

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performance that he probably could have given us. But you

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can only do so much when you have a script

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that's right in front of you, that's written the way

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it's written, you know, yep.

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00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.480
Yeah, And I don't think one of the problems that

233
00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.519
I have with the movie is related to Tom Hardy

234
00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:46.840
at all.

235
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:47.960
I think.

236
00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.279
The character is interesting, his portrayal of it. I think

237
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.039
he does a great job. I think it's certainly a

238
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:59.360
better choice than having Patrick Stewart play opposite himself, as

239
00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.440
shouldn't on I heard there's one consideration of that, and

240
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.600
I think that's dodging a bullet that would have just

241
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.360
been way too weird. But especially for you know, being

242
00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.440
pretty young in his career, and it had to be

243
00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.960
somewhat intimidating to be surrounded by this cast that's you know,

244
00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.320
become a family at this point, right.

245
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.039
Yeah, And my I think one of the biggest problems

246
00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.360
I have with it is it's got none to do

247
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:27.240
with Tom Hardy. I like him, he's a great actor

248
00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:31.000
to lots of great stuff. But what was the point

249
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.159
of making him the Card's clone. I mean, it really

250
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.320
has nothing to do with the actual storyline. It just

251
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.279
seems like something that was thrown in just because they wanted.

252
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:42.399
To do it.

253
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.679
And it you know, if they would have just made

254
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.720
him like some like someone else, just a different character

255
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.080
that had nothing to do with the Card being you know,

256
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.279
his clone, I think it would have probably worked out

257
00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.080
better for the character, for the actor.

258
00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.080
It just makes no sense. Why would why why have that?

259
00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.600
It doesn't It doesn't make anything that I know. There's

260
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.559
some dialogue later on the film where he's talking to

261
00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.399
Picard and he's saying that, like the Romulans were going

262
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.080
to use him, I guess to replace him in the Federation.

263
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:15.120
Yeah, but it was something that they had abandoned.

264
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:16.879
Yeah, but they would do with the story.

265
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:19.000
Yeah, right, it doesn't. It doesn't if he would have

266
00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.279
been just like, you know, a new a person who

267
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.039
they had, like, let's say he was a Federation citizen

268
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.480
that had been been captured and was in slavery with

269
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:32.159
the Riemanns and and led their revolt up and you know,

270
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.279
been able to take over and now he's in command

271
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.159
of the Romulans, and you know that that works, that

272
00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:38.720
that would work, and it would be would not have

273
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.600
changed the script one one bit at all, right, but

274
00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.600
it would have left out all that awkward whole stuff

275
00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.039
about being Picard's clone and him trying to, you know,

276
00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.519
look like the card. It just I think they were

277
00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.039
trying to make some sort of connection between him and

278
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.360
the character of a card. But it doesn't come up

279
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:57.919
very well. It doesn't come across like that.

280
00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.159
And you could have you could have had him he

281
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.639
kept the disease he had, because you know that played

282
00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.159
into that. You know, no, you didn't have to be

283
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.399
a clone of Picard at all. I agree with you

284
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.200
completely on that way.

285
00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.879
Well, And there was part of me in one viewing

286
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.960
of this where I noticed that Picard's expression when he's

287
00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:23.320
getting that connection, like talking about the Shalloffe's syndrome, it

288
00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.799
almost looks like he's as surprised as if he was

289
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.960
meeting his own son that he never knew he had. Yeah,

290
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.159
and it seemed like, maybe, you know, could there have

291
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.120
been another direction where, similar to Denise Crosby coming back

292
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.600
as a descendant, he.

293
00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:40.519
Had talked about her coming back. I kind of wish

294
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.559
we would have sawd that I.

295
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.759
Do too, right, So if there could have been a

296
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.200
similar angle with Picard where it's kind of like, this

297
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.840
is basically my son created in ways that I didn't choose,

298
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.399
but essentially having him have that same kind of conflict,

299
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.080
I feel like responsibility for this as much as I

300
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.440
see this person as an inherent threat. So I think

301
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:08.240
that that dichotomy could have worked better in other ways.

302
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.320
Didn't they do that storyline in an episode like one

303
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.120
of the last last episodes of the series.

304
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:14.159
It sounds I think so.

305
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.240
One of the aspects of shins on character Shinzun's character

306
00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:23.159
that I don't like at all and I think really

307
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:28.559
doesn't service the plot at all, is his his approach

308
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.000
toward Troy.

309
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:31.240
First.

310
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:37.799
Yeah, now I'm not talking about the obvious problem yet,

311
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.519
but the fact that when he first sees Troy, he's

312
00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.159
so enamored with her and tries to touch her hair,

313
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.679
and it's been super creepy with her that entire Like,

314
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.519
you know, I've been on the dark side of Remus

315
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.480
for so long and I've never seen a human woman,

316
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.840
so I'm enamored with this one and maybe there is

317
00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.159
some kind of plot that he had to mess with

318
00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:03.240
the crew on that level, but I feel like his

319
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:09.279
his approach to Troy and absolutely the telepathic rape way

320
00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:14.639
to say it what it was, well, seems completely unnecessary.

321
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.919
Now that's my that in terms of his character is

322
00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.000
the part that I thought worked only because it not

323
00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.639
only did give a Troy more to do, but actually

324
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:32.320
allowed them to attack back and and you know, bring

325
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.840
her character more into the storyline to become essential to

326
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.879
the the you know, defeat of him. I actually liked

327
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.080
that part of the story. I mean, it is awkward

328
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.279
to talk about, but it's still I thought it worked.

329
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.559
So I think it's fair to say that having some

330
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:53.000
kind of telepathic attack could have been valid right to

331
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.120
give her that opportunity to use that against them. I

332
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.120
don't think sexual aspect of it is necessary.

333
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.960
Well, yeah, there definitely I agree with you that that part.

334
00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.359
Yeah, but one thing we can agree on is Ron

335
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.880
Perlman as the Viceroy was amazing because Ron Perlman is

336
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:14.839
amazing and everything that oh goes he is and then

337
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.400
we got to meet him and dude was awesome. So

338
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.400
you know, respect out there for mister Peerlman I would

339
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:22.960
love to have seen him some more in Star Trek,

340
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.920
but it didn't happen.

341
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.279
I was happy to see his name attached to Star Trek.

342
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.319
I've loved him ever since the eighties. Oh yeah, it

343
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:29.799
was when I heard he was going to be involved

344
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.440
in this film. I was like, oh, yeah, finally, that's great.

345
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.279
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And Wayne, you should have been happy.

346
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:39.359
We had a nice voyager surprise with Kate maulgrew As

347
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:40.599
anyway in this.

348
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.240
Yes, and I wish we had gotten more like they

349
00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.279
had originally planned. But it was nice to see her

350
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.720
and see that she was safe and okay after their return.

351
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:53.480
Yea, absolutely. Well, let's let's talk more about this film, guys.

352
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.119
Some things that do work, some things that don't work.

353
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.480
I know we kind of mentioned this before, but the

354
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.720
problem we have why if a Wesley crusher at the wedding?

355
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.759
It is a good question, well in what sense?

356
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.960
Yeah?

357
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.039
Well he was he left to fly off with the

358
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.599
Traveler and be some special god being thing, and then

359
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.640
now he is there, he is setting and I think

360
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.440
what the problem is he's set in a Starfleet uniform. Yes,

361
00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:28.160
he why quit Starfleet? He gave it all up, and

362
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.279
now there he is. We're missing something of the story.

363
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:36.559
Right, I mean to that end, Yes, Wesley absolutely should

364
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.599
be there at the recertory wedding, but it's also confusing

365
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.319
to your he's back to Starfley uniform, Like could he

366
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:44.640
did not have been in a tux?

367
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:46.519
Well, now I know they didn't fix this At a

368
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.480
later time there was there was a book where he

369
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:54.240
appears at the wedding naked, and the card rather because

370
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.240
they thought that, you know, being a basis in wedding,

371
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.599
that's what they need, what he needed to and like, no, no,

372
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:02.440
we're not to that part yet. Here put this uniform

373
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.160
on real quick, and that's why he's wearing a uniform.

374
00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.000
I guess. Yeah, we got to see Guyn and again

375
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.519
she came back for just a tiny little role right there.

376
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.200
I do love the continued joke though about the naked wedding,

377
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.880
especially with Wharf. You know, he's gonna have to do

378
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:18.680
it no matter what.

379
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.039
And then the card says I'll be in the gym.

380
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.160
Yeah.

381
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.359
I was very glad to see them finally married, and

382
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.400
that seems like a good idea to have them. At

383
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:29.279
the same time, they're kind of passing the baton for him.

384
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.160
To move to the Titan exactly. I think the wedding

385
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:39.240
plays really well, and especially the Irving Berlin joke. I

386
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.720
think Brent Spodden does a great job with Blue Skies

387
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.720
and obviously so much differently at the end of the

388
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.960
card Season one. I won't spoil that for Jeff, but

389
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.400
damn did that hit hard.

390
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.119
Yeah, I will say one of the things they really

391
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.079
left there's there was some comedy in here, but not

392
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.359
as much as I'm used to with these films. If

393
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.000
you guys notice that a lot of comedy was missed,

394
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.200
mostly at the beginning of the film. Yeah, yes, But

395
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.279
the one line that I just bust out laughing every

396
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.480
time is when picards leaving is you have the bridge,

397
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:08.200
mister Troy.

398
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.480
Yeah, oh yeah.

399
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:11.359
I loved it.

400
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.640
All right, Well, I'll tell you what. Let's take a

401
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:16.960
little break, we'll come back. We will continue to talk

402
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:23.640
about this film, all right, everybody, welcome back, where Wayne

403
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.119
Scott and I continue to talk about Star Trek Nemesis.

404
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.599
Let's break this down a little bit further, guys, introduction

405
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:34.359
to Be four. One of the things that I felt

406
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.559
was really odd, it just thought out of place, was

407
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.599
that I don't know what you would call that an

408
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.440
suv whatever they were driving.

409
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.240
Oh yeah, that whole.

410
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.279
Sequence just felt weird to me.

411
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.240
Am I wrong, The dune buggy, the argo, Yeah, that

412
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.119
seemed to be like once I found out about Stuart

413
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.279
Baird not having a core understanding of Star Treker, was like, oh,

414
00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.559
maybe that's why they had a dune buggy scene. Just

415
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.680
to have a dune buggy scene, right, there is nothing

416
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.440
that seemed to be prohibiting the the shuttle from going

417
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:06.480
in different spots.

418
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.200
Yeah, I mean why would they have a dune buggy?

419
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.519
Why would they have something on wheels? I mean, we

420
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.480
never seen anything like that before. They everything flies around,

421
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.160
they have transporters. What would be the use of having

422
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.279
a dune buggy like that.

423
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.839
I don't know. That's why that whole sequence fell on

424
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.119
a place for this movie.

425
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.079
It's it's yeah, it felt like it it should have

426
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.839
been in a different film, something else, not Star Trek.

427
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:31.240
I agree.

428
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:37.599
It also felt like b Foor's story arc is oddly

429
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:43.119
out of character for the crew. So there they pick

430
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.279
up this signal from a distant planet, and I'm not

431
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.759
sure why there's a positronic signal coming from a severed arm.

432
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.759
I would expect it all be coming from the but okay, yeah,

433
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:57.319
so they find these parts that are spread out. They

434
00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.799
didn't even know that this existed, like doctor didn't even

435
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.000
mention that before was even a thing, And all of

436
00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.279
a sudden it seems like it's a trap because everybody

437
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.640
starts shooting in their own dude buggies because they all

438
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:17.160
apparently missed Shuttle day. But as soon as they get him,

439
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:23.000
they assemble him completely, and very soon after download all

440
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:27.160
of Data's memories into B four. Now, aside from the

441
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.000
fact that the last time they found an abandoned android

442
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:36.440
brother he turned out to be you know, bloodthirsty maniac. Yep,

443
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.279
wouldn't it kind of seem like, hm, this is weird.

444
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.920
We didn't know this android existed, yet this group laid

445
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.559
this trap for us. Maybe we should give it some

446
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.880
time before we plug it in and give him all

447
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:51.359
the keys.

448
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.559
That would make sense.

449
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.640
That leads me to two of my problems with this film.

450
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.000
And obviously we've got more that we've already discussed. But

451
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.279
one problem, Oh my god, how many times has Data

452
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.680
caused problems with this in the crew?

453
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:06.160
How many times have you said.

454
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.039
That, yes, I I said that, and here we go again.

455
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.640
Stop it, Okay, stop it. You understand turning this droid

456
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:15.839
on is not going to cause any issues. Oh okay,

457
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.319
let's just do this. No no, no no. The second

458
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.160
problem I have I feel like it's a cop out

459
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:27.160
of killing data because you know, he downloaded everything to before,

460
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.200
so it is right then when that happened, you knew

461
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.119
what was coming, and when he dies it kind of

462
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.200
takes away from his death. I mean I still felt sad.

463
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:38.079
I was still with the crew, you know, when they

464
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:40.640
were feeling those emotions. But in the back of my head,

465
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.680
I'm like, well, who cares because Before is now data

466
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.279
right here.

467
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:47.880
Maybe you clear this up with me.

468
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.960
WHOA what was the point of the B four storyline

469
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.319
other than that? I mean, who put before on that plan?

470
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.920
It was that part of Shinzon's plan. Was he involved

471
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.200
in that?

472
00:23:59.359 --> 00:23:59.559
Well?

473
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.279
What what what? Why? What? What? What does that have

474
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.759
to do with his plan? I don't understand.

475
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:10.799
I think it was to get some of the ships

476
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.440
like shields and all that kind of information downloaded so

477
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.240
he could give it to them, to.

478
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.279
Give easier way to do that.

479
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:18.599
I would agree.

480
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.119
It just seems so convoluted.

481
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.279
Yeah, yeah, and the entire sequence where before you know,

482
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.480
his sleeper cell mode kind of activates and he starts

483
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.519
getting onto the computer. We've seen a lot of treatments

484
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.920
of data scanning through things very quickly, I think, to

485
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.920
the great effect on the TV series. I'm not sure

486
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:46.119
why they went with the uh upn discount bin uh

487
00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:50.400
discount matrix effects that they had on the computer screen

488
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.279
where it has all these like following numbers and three

489
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.279
D like, it was such a weird sequence to use,

490
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.279
and as soon as they were saying like, that's odd,

491
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.000
somebody is accessing things that they're not supposed to. Your

492
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.720
first guess should be before we've been here with lower

493
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.200
like it's the only person on take a guess, it

494
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.240
was Colonel Mustard in the living room to fight.

495
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:16.640
He's the only one.

496
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.559
Here, right. It just blows my mind that, come on, guys,

497
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:25.440
you're smarter than this going on, but it still happens.

498
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:26.240
You know.

499
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.759
One of the things that I feel this film could

500
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.160
have done so much better. This was written by John Logan,

501
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:36.279
who obviously had a handy with Gladiator and had a

502
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:40.720
lot of political background with writing scripts for political stuff.

503
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.640
They could have really dived more into the romulent stuff

504
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.079
politically than they did. I know they kind of touched

505
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.799
on it a little bit, but I feel like if

506
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:52.640
we had gotten more of that kind of like we

507
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.799
got with und Discovered Country, you know, I think we

508
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:57.720
would have had a better film. But again, this goes

509
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.440
back to what you're talking about, Wayne, It was not

510
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:00.839
written really well.

511
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.640
Now, and you're right, I mean, it's finally we get

512
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.079
the Romulans, and everybody's been wanting the Romulans. They wanted

513
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:10.160
the Romulans, and really do we really get much of

514
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.960
the Romulins. We had a lot of the Riemans, but

515
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.279
it's a lot of shiz on. But you know, the

516
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.880
Senate is wiped out right at the beginning before they

517
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:24.240
even open credits, and it's really not a Romulan film

518
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:24.920
in my opinion.

519
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.880
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it is either at all.

520
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:28.599
It's not.

521
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.240
And another problem, and there there's.

522
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.400
A look in there where they talk about the fact

523
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.839
that you know, you know, everybody thinks that a coup

524
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.480
atta is a big thing here on Rondulus. We call

525
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:40.039
it Wednesday.

526
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:40.880
Right.

527
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.880
If it happens that often, it seems like wouldn't make sense.

528
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.559
There would be some redundancies in place. If somebody did

529
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.000
crispy the whole Senate that it's not, well, what do

530
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.240
we do with the planet now, right? It seems like

531
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.559
there could have been some other elements where they had

532
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.319
the riemons maybe occupying the planet a little bit more,

533
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.039
or somehow you know, orchestrating a lot of things.

534
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.440
Well, that would make more sense.

535
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.319
It also seemed a little odd that in the escape

536
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.240
from the shuttle bay with the card and data, stealing

537
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.960
the shuttle and flying through the hallway a cool idea

538
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.319
seemed a bit implausible, but a cool idea. But before

539
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.559
they fly out, I see like a whole fleet of

540
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:27.119
those whatever they call them, attack shorts scorpions. They didn't

541
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.759
use those once in the entire battle sequence. It seems like,

542
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:33.440
if you have this much of an army, send out

543
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.400
your tie fighters to you know, to at least shake

544
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:39.240
things up a little bit.

545
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:45.799
I don't know budget budget, Scott budget, I guess, yeah.

546
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.440
Well, they don't tease us with things like that.

547
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.359
Don't show us that if you're not going to actually

548
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:49.759
use them exactly.

549
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:53.960
So okay, now we have this great crew on the Enterprise.

550
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:56.680
They have done such wonderful things over the years, so

551
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:58.720
not only do you have the problem of let's turn

552
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:00.799
on this this robot that we have no idea about

553
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.559
is android, who's probably gonna call the problems? But are

554
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.759
we just throwing starfleet procedure out the window? So when

555
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.880
they go to stings on ship Riker and picardgo and

556
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.039
data okay, never mind, but throw everything out of the window.

557
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.519
Right, Hey, well never learn.

558
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:18.359
Doctor Crusher, you've got this.

559
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:25.119
Yeah, really that happened, and it did, okay.

560
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.119
Whatever it did seem like there were a few aspects

561
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.839
where they were not quite prepared for what they were

562
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:35.759
supposed to do. So going back way back to uh

563
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.000
Janeaway talking through you know, what they're going to do,

564
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.359
and obviously they've been requested specifically, but they don't see

565
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.799
it as suspicious enough to have the fleet be a

566
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.640
little bit closer to them or you know, like.

567
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.960
Well that's that's in a deleted scene they are it was,

568
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:55.559
if not an elite scene, it was a scene.

569
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.680
That they cut from their film and never never shot that.

570
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:02.200
Yeah, there was talk about that, okay, but because of

571
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.480
the fact that you know, the Federation Council was you know,

572
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.720
the Romuels are saying peace piece piece that they were

573
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.680
kind of all they were thinking of is piece and

574
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.319
let common sense fly out the window.

575
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:19.200
Okay, a lot of that in this movie, apparently, Yeah,

576
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.680
I seem to be a theme. There's there's one. There's

577
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.599
a few scenes that I actually love. So there's the

578
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.039
same scene similar to what we got in First Contact,

579
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:30.960
where like they're getting ready to go to war and

580
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:32.640
they're handing out all the rifles.

581
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.680
I love that shot.

582
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:35.920
I do. It was very similar to their first contract.

583
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:40.240
But right there readable piece from Jerry Goldsmith myth right

584
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:43.079
there that kicked in and just went over that kind

585
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:46.279
of montage of getting ready for war. I love that piece.

586
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:48.799
There's two pieces in this film. The whole score was fantastic.

587
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:50.200
It is, and I know we're gonna get to the

588
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:52.960
score here a little bit, but that was one of them.

589
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:54.759
The other one we'll get to and that I'll mention

590
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.680
what we'll get to when we.

591
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.680
Talk about the score.

592
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.000
But let's talk about this big, huge battle that we get.

593
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:02.920
I thought the battle was pretty neat, I really did.

594
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.839
I mean it could have been as you as you

595
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.240
mentioned the scorpions, we could have probably have seen those

596
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.319
with everything that was going on. It was kind of

597
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:12.160
neat to see the romulants show up to help out

598
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.119
the Enterprise. I thought that was some really cool scenes.

599
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.960
One of the things that scenes I thought was amazing

600
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:21.720
was when the Enterprise rams hit shins on ship and

601
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:24.880
then they get stuck and then Shinzan starts backing away

602
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.160
and just rips them apart. Man, that whole sequence I

603
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.440
thought was phenomenally well that it is one of the

604
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:30.079
best parts.

605
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:30.480
Yeah.

606
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.079
Yeah, there was part of me that kind of wondered

607
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.599
could they have used the separatable saucer section if that's

608
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.440
still a thing with this.

609
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.039
Enterprise it or not it was, but I don't know.

610
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.640
But after ramming into it, it seems like you could

611
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:46.920
have a tactical advantage behind. You know, all right, we're

612
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.319
gonna park the saucer section in your nose and then

613
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.000
take the rest of it a round to the back

614
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:53.160
and finish it off.

615
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:53.720
Right.

616
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.519
So let me get this straight. How many times in

617
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.359
a movie do we have to see the car has

618
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:10.319
to shut down a massive weapon at the end. I

619
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:10.960
don't get it.

620
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:13.559
Yeah, I mean you you hit.

621
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:17.400
Another thing that that bothers me about this film is

622
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:18.799
it's similarity to it the.

623
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.680
End of Insurrection.

624
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.880
Yeah, you know, the whole tone of the film, the

625
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.319
the the fights, Yeah, and then the whole you know,

626
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.839
massive weapon you know. Yeah, yeah, I thought the same thing.

627
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.160
It's too close to insurrection. We need something different.

628
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:35.319
It is, and it's just like, come on, come on

629
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.200
with some original police. I mean, they kind of did

630
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.680
the generations to the same thing. It's like, come on.

631
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:43.519
But I digress.

632
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:46.599
I do kind of wish that the Jordi had made

633
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:52.720
to prototype emergency transports because clearly so maybe I'm a spare.

634
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:54.960
I don't know, why does he have one? Why does

635
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:55.519
he have one?

636
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.880
Right the way that they kind of present that too,

637
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.400
it's kind of like, okay, we're talking about all these things. Oh,

638
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.559
by the way, I've got this thing, and in case we

639
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.160
need to get out, looks at the camera so you know,

640
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:08.799
if that comes up and then breaks the back of

641
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:09.359
his arm.

642
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:12.640
Yeah. I did like the sequence of Data getting autitions

643
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.759
on ship though. I thought that was cool. Yes, yes,

644
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.400
runs down the hallway and then leaps. I thought that

645
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:22.599
was cool, great effect. And of course yeah again you

646
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.720
get the cop out with them killing Data, which again

647
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:26.720
I feel for the emotions of the crew. I thought

648
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.680
when it blew up and then like Troy and Ryker

649
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.960
were looking at this scroll. There's no scream there anymore,

650
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.720
but they're looking out, which that was pretty cool too.

651
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.400
By the way, they didn't realize Picard was standing behind them,

652
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:42.000
so you know when they turn and look. I thought

653
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:43.799
that the sequence was really good, and I felt for

654
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.400
them that Data had killed himself and sacrificed himself, but

655
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.279
still we happy before. We're fine, everybody, We're cool.

656
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.720
We're cool, Yeah, and I thought they were. I feel

657
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.480
like they were intentionally trying to kind of play with

658
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.000
our emotions with the It seemed like when the movie

659
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.759
was being set up, it was set up as the

660
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:03.480
last voyage for the.

661
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.319
Next Generation crew.

662
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.119
Yeah, so then it seems like, all right, I'm expecting

663
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.200
that somebody's going to die. And when Riker was fighting

664
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.960
Viceroy in the fight sequence that was way over using

665
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:21.359
slow motion, yes nineties slow motion, that they were kind

666
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.960
of set up that Riker was going to be the

667
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.359
one that dies, and I'm glad that's not the way

668
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:27.279
that they went. Oh, it would be a horrible thing

669
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.720
to set up this Everything's fantastic Blue skies and then

670
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.559
he dies, Like, I'm glad they didn't put them through that.

671
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:40.960
This This is probably finally, My biggest problem with this

672
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.359
film and why even twenty some years later, I still

673
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.720
don't like this film as much as I should, is

674
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:52.880
that it is the last Next Generation film that we

675
00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:00.160
got and it's it's just it's just depressing. It is know,

676
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.359
you want these characters, We follow these characters for so long.

677
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:07.240
We love these characters, and you know, we want them

678
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:10.559
to have a great ending, and this was not it.

679
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.199
This wasn't it. You know, we were left with a

680
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:14.599
really bad taste.

681
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.639
In our mouth at the end of this film, you know,

682
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.440
with even Data's death, I mean, yeah, it sounded like

683
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:20.960
a great idea, but it's not where we want to

684
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:25.400
leave the saga right at And you know, I'm glad

685
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:30.440
that I'm glad that we didn't have to finally, I'm

686
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.199
glad that the characters did finally get there happily ever after,

687
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.360
because that's what we wanted. But this, this wasn't the good.

688
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:39.679
This wasn't a good ending to what we have followed

689
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:42.239
for it was at this point it in fifteen years,

690
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.840
but invested so much of our time and love and

691
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:48.119
you know, following.

692
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.039
And then this is.

693
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:50.719
It, and.

694
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.199
It's just no that's all I can say.

695
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.159
Really, I think that's why we kind of got on

696
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.159
our vindication when we got season three of The Card.

697
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.840
I mean, that's the fifth film, that is that's the

698
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.239
film that we wanted and got this instead.

699
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:11.239
Yes, so at least we got that out of it.

700
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:13.760
But you're right. I mean, in many years we had

701
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.000
to wait for that was ridiculous.

702
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.480
I feel great now after seeing that, I feel great.

703
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.079
I feel satisfied. And that's the problem. I did not

704
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.360
feel satisfied after Nemesis. I like, we got to have more.

705
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.119
You can't just leave it like this, right, you know,

706
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.840
I'm satisfied. If we never see these characters again, I'm

707
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:35.760
happy because they got the ending that they deserved well.

708
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.440
And I think they got kind of double duty too,

709
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:41.480
with Piguard season one and Pickard season three helping to

710
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:42.559
round that out.

711
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:43.639
Yeah.

712
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.079
I agree, absolutely, And you know we are talking a

713
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.400
lot about The Card too, But and so I guess

714
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.800
that makes really you know, that's that's a great series.

715
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.760
Everybody should watch it, but you really to understand a lot,

716
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.079
and you really do need to watch Nemesis.

717
00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:59.760
You know, we we.

718
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.360
Were trashing the film, but you know we're not saying

719
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:03.119
we're saying it's not the greatest film, but you really

720
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.280
do need to watch it.

721
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:07.679
It is an important part to understand anything about that series.

722
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.280
Is it's part of the story. I mean, just like

723
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.159
in the TV series, there are episodes we don't like,

724
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:13.920
but we know they're there and you should watch them

725
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.880
because they're part of the series. So I get it.

726
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.199
You're absolutely right, Wayne, Yeah.

727
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.559
And this film.

728
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.719
There are parts of this film that are great. The cast,

729
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.360
the main characters are all fantastic. I mean, we love

730
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:28.599
watching them and they're great in this The visual effects

731
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:33.559
are outstanding. I think it was wonderfully directed. It's beautifully designed.

732
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.039
There are a lot of good points to look at.

733
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.800
At the score. Oh gosh, the score. Yeah yeah, we'll.

734
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.559
Get to that. We'll get all right, gentlemen, Let's talk

735
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.079
a little bit about behind the scenes. One of the

736
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:47.239
things I found fascinating was apparently the farewell scene in

737
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.559
Picard's ready room near the end had to be reshot

738
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:55.599
because apparently Patrick Stewart unintentionally started crying. Oh wow, yeah,

739
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:57.840
because I mean they pretty much knew that's probably gonna

740
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.440
be it for them too, you know, no more, I

741
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:01.559
mean they didn't know if this was gonna be a

742
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:03.320
success or not, but the one they were filming it.

743
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:05.000
But I think if sure.

744
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.960
That was on the set that vibe, Yeah, I.

745
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.480
Think it was.

746
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:09.280
But I also think that if this was a success,

747
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.840
they were they were expecting a last, final fifth film.

748
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.039
To anything, you guys, anything behind the scene.

749
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:19.599
Yeah, well, you know, I got They did ask Jerry

750
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:21.519
Ryan to appear.

751
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:22.599
In the film.

752
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:24.920
You know, she was going to appear at Riker's and

753
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Troy's wedding and she I remember one thing I got

754
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.719
a mentioned stairby he hears we talk about deleted scenes

755
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.239
and early things. About six months before this film was released,

756
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.559
the script was leaked on the internet and that's when

757
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.760
I first I read it. I mean, I who could

758
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:40.559
who could resist?

759
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:41.360
And there it.

760
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:45.840
Wasn't the final shooting script. It was like two drafts back.

761
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.599
So there were a lot of stuff in there that

762
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.239
that they had cut and changed. And I remember reading

763
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.559
the scenes with Jerry Ryan, you know, and she was

764
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.599
only appearing in the wedding scenes. And I have to

765
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:00.400
agree for her reasons for refusing.

766
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:00.639
To take it.

767
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.639
You know, she just didn't feel that she didn't understand

768
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:05.119
why seven and.

769
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:06.280
Nine would be at the wedding.

770
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:07.360
She wouldn't.

771
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.559
I mean, yeah, she wouldn't. I mean she never met

772
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.840
these characters at that point. You know, she had never

773
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.239
met any of these characters, so why would she appear?

774
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:16.960
And and that's one of her main reasons why she

775
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:17.760
didn't appare.

776
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:19.039
And I agree with that. I thought it was rather

777
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:19.599
odd too.

778
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.519
Wasn't there even talk that Marine Turtis wasn't going to

779
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.320
sign on for this movie? Yeah, I'm going to replace

780
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.199
her with Jerry Ryan.

781
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.679
I think there was there was brief talk right at

782
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.639
the beginning when they were writing this they weren't sure

783
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:32.760
if everybody was coming back.

784
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.000
Yeah, and thankfully, I guess I think Jerry Ryan was

785
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:36.960
busy with Boston Public at this time.

786
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.000
Yeah, yeah, thankfully.

787
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:40.239
That got in the way and it didn't work out.

788
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:41.719
I don't think she would have done it anyway because

789
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:42.800
those very reasons.

790
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:44.360
It would have been nice to year, but it wouldn't

791
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:45.800
have made any sense, like a lot of things in

792
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.360
this film. But yeah, there was no reason to have

793
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:50.239
her character in there.

794
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:50.440
Now.

795
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.480
Kay Mulgrew's appearance we really liked, oh absolutely, you know.

796
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.559
There that was another thing that was in that script.

797
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.599
You know, there were She was originally to appear in

798
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.159
two more scenes off the screen. You know, there was

799
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:08.039
a scene with between her and the Federation Council what

800
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:10.679
I mentioned a little bit about that, and then there

801
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:12.679
was another scene after there where she's talking to the

802
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.519
card This was about halfway through the film, right after

803
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:19.440
Picard and she's on met for the first time. She's

804
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:23.639
discussing that, you know, telling him the results and that

805
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.159
needs to go ahead with the negotiations. But then she

806
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.599
kind of puts it off onto what do they call

807
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.599
that one when nobody else can listen in she goes,

808
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:38.320
you know, captain to captain, be careful, that's what she says.

809
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.079
And I love that scene. It's a pity that they

810
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:40.639
never filmed that.

811
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:45.679
Okay, I think it's a good call that they didn't

812
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.760
include seven or nine in here, because yeah, I would

813
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:51.159
have felt wedged in. I think it's a shame that

814
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:56.679
it sounds like one of the reasons that Marina might

815
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.320
have not come back is because they were offering her

816
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:04.440
such a low salary for it. They were not willing

817
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.760
to pay her a lot for it, and considering what

818
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.920
her character has to go through, well, you know, it's

819
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.360
too light. The fact that she's a highly.

820
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:14.639
Important character, absolutely is.

821
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.800
This would be a completely different movie if we didn't

822
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:20.280
have the Riker troy Ye wedding. And she's a lot

823
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.840
more than that as a character as an actress, like

824
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.320
respect that and make sure that she's in this, especially

825
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:27.679
if it's going to be the swell Song, You've got

826
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:27.920
to have.

827
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:29.280
Her there right now.

828
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.360
And she hardly had anything to do with interaction, and

829
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.679
there's really didn't have much, So I could think I

830
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.199
could see her saying, you know, if you're not going

831
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.039
to give me anything to do, why should I be there?

832
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.880
And I think that, you know, maybe that's what happened.

833
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:44.639
Maybe that's why she does have more to do in

834
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:47.039
this film has some rather important scenes.

835
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:49.079
I don't know. I don't know if that's the case,

836
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:50.559
but it could lead to that.

837
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:54.840
The only other behind the scenes thing I was going

838
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:58.400
to mention is that I think it's appropriate that Brent

839
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.639
Spiner was one of the writers on this, knowing that

840
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.159
it's Data's last hurrah on the movie, it seems appropriate

841
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.960
that he would have a hand in the future.

842
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.679
So I was in that so talking about what ifs,

843
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:15.639
and then we've kind of already mentioned some of these

844
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.000
when you've mentioned some of the elitest scenes and something

845
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:21.880
like that. Apparently there was supposed to be a follow

846
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.559
up film for this which would involve d Spasline and

847
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.159
Star Trek Voyager crews and Riiker with his USF Titan,

848
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:34.119
but apparently all those got scrapped because of this film

849
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.480
did so bad at the box office. What a shame.

850
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.039
I think that would be really neat to see that.

851
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:40.519
Yeah, they were talking about that for a while, and

852
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.480
this is one of the reasons why most of this

853
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.119
cast felt that this was their last time. They didn't

854
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.960
mean it was the last Star Trek film, but it

855
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.679
could have been their last time altogether, because Paramount and

856
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:55.840
the producers were talking about doing films that combined all

857
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.840
the other series and brought all the other characters bits

858
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.239
of them here and there, And so I mean, yeah.

859
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:02.920
I think I think that's why we got the Star

860
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.119
Trek two thousand and nine reboot, isn't it. They just

861
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.079
think they like, let's just reboot it all. Well, between

862
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.079
this film and Enterprise was just not doing very well.

863
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.079
A great series but just just wasn't do anything. And

864
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:15.119
I think a lot of it has got to do

865
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:16.239
with that fatigue.

866
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.039
It led to the end of the franchise, or this

867
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:22.840
part of the franchise. They I think the only logical

868
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:24.280
thing they could have done was reboot it.

869
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:28.440
Yeah, I agree, any any other what if?

870
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.920
I just want to mention that, you know, the first

871
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:35.480
cut of this film was really long. They cut nearly

872
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.880
fifteen minutes of foot each out of this film to

873
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.199
get it, Yeah, to get it under two hours. And

874
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.599
there are a ton of deleted scenes. I talked about

875
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:46.800
the ones that they didn't shoot. There are a ton

876
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:48.519
of ones that they did shoot, and some of them

877
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.159
are great stuff. Some of it I can understand they cut.

878
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:55.880
If you want to watch any of them, they're all

879
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:56.440
on the.

880
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:57.360
DVD in Blu ray.

881
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.559
I mean, you got Wesley gets scenes with Wes the

882
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.239
Crusher where he actually speaks lines because he never did

883
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:08.159
in the actual film. There's some great scenes with between

884
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:12.239
Picard and Troy, more scenes with Wharf and then the

885
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:20.639
extended final scenes with Riker leaving and Bokard getting a

886
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:24.800
new committee chair installed on the on the enterprise with

887
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:27.000
seatbelts by the way.

888
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.199
Yeah, finally, I know. Apparently in an early draft, Ashley

889
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.480
Judd was supposed to come back, but they better not

890
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:35.960
to do that. That would have been kind of neat,

891
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:36.440
wouldn't it.

892
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:38.880
Yeah, I mean it would have been neat. I would

893
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:41.199
like to have seen some of the characters we got. Yeah,

894
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:44.280
such a great you know, secondary cast of the next generation.

895
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.559
We always wonder whatever happened to him.

896
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.599
Do you know Brian Singers got a guest appearance in

897
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:50.320
this film?

898
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.079
That's right.

899
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:54.840
Yeah, some of the crew remembers that takes a worse

900
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.079
place at the tactical console.

901
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:59.239
I think that's right. Yeah, yeah, because really was.

902
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.840
Packs were obviously, you know, with X Men and stuff

903
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:03.880
like that. So I guess that's why he got of that.

904
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:09.599
So yeah, all right, well let's take another break. We'll

905
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.239
come back. We're gonna do Wayne's favorite part, talk about

906
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:17.960
the score. All right, everybody, welcome back. Before we continue

907
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.960
our discussion with star Diagnosis with Wayne and Scott. Guys,

908
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:25.000
we all know that we're big fans of movie scores

909
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.280
and Wayne, we all know that we love Jerry Goldsmith.

910
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:31.480
Oh yeah, so let's talk about the score of this film.

911
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:32.320
What do you got, Wayne?

912
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:36.440
Well, you know this score.

913
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.480
When I first heard it, which was about a week

914
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:41.519
before the release, I believed it was around the time

915
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:43.800
of the release of the film, I wasn't really too

916
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:47.199
sure about it, you know, I remember listening to it

917
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:52.679
and thinking how different it was from his work on Insurrection.

918
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:57.519
Very harsh, menacing, kind of depressing, just like the film

919
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:01.639
in points. You know, it's he's got a very very short,

920
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.920
very raw, pounding opening theme because there's no opening credits

921
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:06.960
for him to write anything for.

922
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:08.960
But then there was a.

923
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.719
Lot of you know, it just it was just very different,

924
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.159
and you know, I didn't have all those zeice beautiful

925
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.239
themes that he had written for the last two films.

926
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.760
But then, you know, I had first thought that maybe,

927
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:24.079
just like us, Goldsmith didn't think too much of the film.

928
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.599
It just wasn't very inspired. I mean, it's happened before

929
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.159
on some of his other films. But then, you know,

930
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.519
the film the score has grown on me, it really has,

931
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:37.599
and after I started thinking about it, you know, to

932
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:40.119
really appreciate this, this score, you you have to think

933
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.960
about exactly where Jerry Goldsmith was at this time of

934
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:44.599
his life.

935
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:45.760
Yep.

936
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.239
You know, this was this was late two thousand and two,

937
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.119
and I think he composed it during the summer of

938
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.599
two thousand and two. You know, he had been battling

939
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.760
colon cancer for quite a few years at this point now,

940
00:45:57.760 --> 00:45:59.960
and it made him cancel a lot of his assignment.

941
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.480
You know, he was doing five to six films a year,

942
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.920
dropped down to one or two starting with the year

943
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:09.760
two thousand. You know, his cancer went into remission, but

944
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:14.000
at this point it was starting to return, and I

945
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:15.800
really think, you know, he was beginning to feel.

946
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:16.480
The effects of it.

947
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:19.719
You know, I've listened to his score many times over

948
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:23.199
the last twenty years, and I've really got a new

949
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:26.320
appreciation to the score because there's there are some incredible

950
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.840
pieces here.

951
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.039
I mean, we talked to a few of them.

952
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.360
There are some beautiful pieces, and I think the original

953
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:33.960
release does not do this score justice.

954
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:35.800
You know.

955
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.760
There there's a couple of cues that I absolutely love.

956
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:42.760
You know, the scene on Kolaris three with the Dune Buggies.

957
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:44.800
While I don't like the scene, I love the music.

958
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:51.440
It's that's that's pure Jerry Goldsmith action music, very full orchestra,

959
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:55.159
you know, and everything. And then there's the scene with

960
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.840
between the card and chiz On when they're just they're

961
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:04.199
talking about you know, being clones or him being a clone,

962
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:09.400
and everything beautiful, sweet Obo playing underneath with a very

963
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.519
sinister by tone. Just the whole score is just absolutely phenomenal.

964
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:19.199
You know, this ended up being the third of the

965
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:23.679
last score that Jerry Goldsmith ever composed before his death

966
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:25.719
in July two thousand and four.

967
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:27.400
You know, he.

968
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.159
Did the film called Timeline after this, which his music

969
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.000
was never used. It ended up having to be dropped

970
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.519
from the film, and then he did one more film,

971
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.599
Joe Dante's Looney Tunes Back in Action, and you know,

972
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:41.440
at that point he wasn't even able to finish that

973
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:43.599
score and had John Debney come in and conduct it

974
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.199
and finish it for him. So, you know, thinking of

975
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:50.719
that and where he was and this was a very

976
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:53.159
dark time, he knew what was coming.

977
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.119
He did that.

978
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.960
I think he brought a lot of that emotion, that

979
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:02.920
anger and that fear and into his score on this film.

980
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.599
And it's just absolutely incredible.

981
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:08.159
It is. You know, I mentioned one of the pieces

982
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.880
that I loved. The other piece. It's very short, but man,

983
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:13.400
I tell you, every time I hear it, I just

984
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.280
get goosebumps. It's the small little piece as Piccarda's leaving

985
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.320
before at the end, he does that look back, he

986
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.679
walks out in the hallway. That piece right there, I

987
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:27.679
tell you, man, it gets me every damn time. Beautiful

988
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:30.480
piece right there. But the whole score is fantastic, Wayne,

989
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:32.880
I couldn't have said it better than you. So many

990
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:34.920
different pieces about this film that you know, the music

991
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.280
is just top notch. First Contact is always going to

992
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.960
be my favorite. But and you know, I'm not a

993
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.159
huge fan of this movie, but the music it Yeah,

994
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.239
Jerry Goldsman, I still feel like knocked it out of

995
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.559
the park.

996
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:47.360
Yea, yeah, for sure.

997
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.280
And I think I can look up the soundtrack to

998
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:54.280
see if it's on it. But apparently Brent Speiner recorded

999
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.960
the entire song of Blue Skies and which I think

1000
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.559
there are some notes of that Jerry Goldsmith incorporated into

1001
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:06.519
the score that would be a nice little you know,

1002
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:07.519
cherry on the top.

1003
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:08.960
Yeah, just to include that.

1004
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:14.679
It is included. It is included because you know it was.

1005
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.119
The score was released back when the film came out,

1006
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.159
had fourteen tracks, about forty eight minutes of music, which

1007
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.639
is pretty long US for a Star Trek soundtrack, but

1008
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:28.639
they did in twenty fourteen they did release a two

1009
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:32.280
disc complete score for this. Finally, it was very saraband

1010
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.159
that released it. Thirty two tracks, nine ulternate tracks, and

1011
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.039
then the four source cues like you were talking about

1012
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:43.079
with the Blue Skies. Unfortunately, this is the only Star

1013
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:46.880
Trek's film score that is not currently available to purchase.

1014
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.280
It's been out of print for quite a few years,

1015
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.000
but you can still find it. You can still find

1016
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:54.239
on Amazon and in Toronto those It's just not readily

1017
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:54.559
a vail.

1018
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:56.000
You have to look for a little bit and a

1019
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:56.559
little pricey.

1020
00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:59.400
I'm here too, not too bad right now, but if

1021
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:03.360
you wait another or two it might be probably all right.

1022
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.400
Well, let's move on to talk about the Easter eggs, Wayne,

1023
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:06.239
I know you've got some.

1024
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:09.400
You'd be surprised a little alike was able to find.

1025
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.760
There are some a bit of retroactive continuity. The name

1026
00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:17.719
of the Romulin ship Valdor. It was later reused in

1027
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.639
the name of Romulin Senator and Admiral in the Star

1028
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:26.280
Trek Enterprise, so you know, even though it was shown backwards,

1029
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:29.880
we finally found out where that ship got its name.

1030
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:31.840
You know.

1031
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:36.840
And this for this film. Normally the producers would reuse

1032
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.639
and redress the old sets. Like with the other films,

1033
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:42.840
they use sets from d Space nine and Voyager. But

1034
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.480
by the time this was a movie was being filmed,

1035
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:48.599
all the Voyager sets had been taken down and they

1036
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.800
were forced to construct everything from scratch for this film,

1037
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:55.719
so we got all new sets. The sick bay, the

1038
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:59.119
crew quarters were all brand new sets for this film.

1039
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.360
The only that they re used was the bridge of

1040
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:06.519
the Romulan Valdor was a redress the Enterprise E set.

1041
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:11.159
They just shot it very carefully so that you couldn't

1042
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:15.559
tell the difference, of course. But on the other hand,

1043
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:18.440
many of these sets and costumes that they would create

1044
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.599
would be used later for Star Trek Enterprise. The Riemann

1045
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.480
costumes were reused as the Zendi costumes during the third

1046
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.840
season of that show, and many of the computers and

1047
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.719
set pieces would be seen throughout the final two seasons

1048
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:32.840
of that show.

1049
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:34.880
Well.

1050
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:39.639
The fast food restaurant Del Taco featured a promotional tie

1051
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.000
in for this film. You know, they had four fun

1052
00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:48.079
cups decorated with Star Trek characters. They had a contest

1053
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:53.519
and Star Trek themed gifts certificates. They were action figures

1054
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:55.559
by Art Asylum, not too many of them, but a

1055
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.480
few trading cards and even TV Guy got into it.

1056
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:03.559
And released four special lenticular covers promoting the film around

1057
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.960
the time of its release. But that was about it

1058
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.119
when it came to promotional stuff.

1059
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:08.679
With the film.

1060
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:15.679
Nice also to in this it This became the first

1061
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.400
Star Trek film not to debate debut in the number one.

1062
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.679
Spot at the box office.

1063
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.719
This film was beaten by Made in Manhattan, Oh jeez,

1064
00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:30.119
by just two hundred thousand dollars. But the problem was

1065
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:33.679
is unfortunately it lost Star Trek Nemesis lost seventy five

1066
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:36.880
percent of its audience the following week because of the

1067
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:40.440
release of Lord of the Rings the Two Towers. Well

1068
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.880
that makes nothing to talk to that, yeah, but which

1069
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.719
also makes it means it was the worst revenue drop

1070
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.719
of any major studio film in box office history.

1071
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:53.199
Ouch, they got that going for him out.

1072
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.480
Not a record you really want to make though, No

1073
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:57.920
it's not. You know.

1074
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.440
One of the things I found very interesting. I think

1075
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:03.800
we kind of mentioned this earlier about B four. Apparently

1076
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.079
it is consistent with the episode Inheritance because it is

1077
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:11.559
said doctor Soon had built three prototypes before lower and

1078
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:15.920
data okay, staying cool, Okay, So that does come into

1079
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:18.639
play a little bit. And apparently.

1080
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.639
Say how many of these robots did he build? I mean,

1081
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:25.280
we got we got a lot of them.

1082
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:27.679
Yeah, we do, we do.

1083
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:32.119
Apparently he had quite a pingent for losing them. Yeah,

1084
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:35.239
like he had no idea where It wasn't very good

1085
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:37.920
at that Laura was in cold storage. But I guess

1086
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.800
he just you know, these other prototypes are bouncing around

1087
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:45.000
on some kind of planet somewhere, hopefully in one piece,

1088
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:47.760
but a little odd.

1089
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.519
So here's here's something fascinating that I found too. This

1090
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:55.360
film references every live action Star Trek series that had

1091
00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.920
come before and after Star Trek. The next ration, at

1092
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:03.199
this time, Commander Riker orders the defensive maneuver Kirk Epsilon

1093
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:07.480
after Captain Kirk from Star Trek. One of the ships

1094
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.840
waiting for the Enterprise is the USS Archer, named after

1095
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:13.920
Captain Archer of the Enterprise. Oh yeah, Admiral Jane Way,

1096
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:18.320
obviously making her cameo from Star Trek. Voyager Wharf obviously

1097
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.880
returns from Deep Space nine. In deleted scene, he claims

1098
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.719
he was not cut out for ambassador life. So everything

1099
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:27.639
is represented in this movie. Isn't that pretty cool? Oh?

1100
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:29.400
Yeah, I'm interested to get everything in there, didn't they?

1101
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:30.920
They did that's pretty cool.

1102
00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:35.199
Yeah, and let's not forget the wine that the crew

1103
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:36.719
is drinking there at the end. You know where that

1104
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:41.400
was from, Wayne, That's right, Yeah, Chatau Piccard.

1105
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.440
Which is kind of interesting because then in the Picard

1106
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:46.679
season it seems like they kind of poke fun at

1107
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:49.119
Chateau p Card not being that good of a wine.

1108
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:55.800
It's apparently it is, because it's everywhere exactly. All right, Well,

1109
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.400
let's talk about some of our favorite moments. Guys, Scott,

1110
00:54:58.440 --> 00:54:59.000
what about you?

1111
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.679
We've already talked about a lot of them. I think

1112
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:11.440
Data posing is before was a clever move. He had

1113
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.159
kind of an interesting affect to his voice, that kind

1114
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:18.639
of echo effect, kind of underscoring it. At the same time,

1115
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.360
it's kind of like they couldn't like they fell for that.

1116
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:24.840
They didn't spend any time with before. I couldn't tell

1117
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:29.920
the specks or whatever. I think the action was handled

1118
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:33.920
pretty well, like the direction of the action sequences.

1119
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:34.840
To hold up.

1120
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:38.400
But then again, it's just kind of like, you know,

1121
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:41.840
those those flaws keep coming back, and you know, it's

1122
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.679
one of the things that I remember about this movie

1123
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.400
being interesting, kind of keeping my attention. But then there's

1124
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:47.920
those weird nuggets.

1125
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:49.880
What about For me?

1126
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:52.800
As much as I love this epic battle that's done

1127
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.360
extremely well, it's the final moment between Captain Picard the

1128
00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:00.280
Commander Ricker. You know, just watching that scene made here

1129
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.519
because knowing the history of these two characters and seeing

1130
00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:06.679
them standing there possibly for the last time, you know,

1131
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:09.800
as Riker, you know, finally gets what he deserves his

1132
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:11.920
own command. I mean, I know it was almost given

1133
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.400
him a few times in some of the episodes, and

1134
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.360
he passed it up. But that moment between these two

1135
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:18.519
characters that we have fallen in love with, you know,

1136
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:22.159
you knew at this point this is probably going to

1137
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.840
be the it for them, and just seeing that happen

1138
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:28.400
was my favorite moment of this entire film, Wayne, what

1139
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:28.719
about you?

1140
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:31.920
I think I've got two moments, so I've touched on one,

1141
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:35.920
and that is I like the fact that they actually

1142
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.000
got Troy involved in the actual plot of the story.

1143
00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:42.840
You know, you know, her character and Doctor Crusher tended

1144
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:45.280
to get shoved into the background a lot, especially in

1145
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:47.960
the last film, you know, to make room for the

1146
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:51.400
regular you know, a card data Riker, but here she's

1147
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.079
actually given something that makes a difference in defeating the

1148
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:58.719
villain and I like that. You know, it shows that

1149
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.440
she's just not a their face on the bridge. You know,

1150
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.559
she's not just the counselor you know, she's a strong,

1151
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.280
important part of the Enterprise crew. We all knew that,

1152
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.480
you know, we finally get to see a little bit

1153
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.199
of it here. And another scene that I really like

1154
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:18.039
is right after the Card and hies on meat and

1155
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.239
he gives her gives him the blade with the blood

1156
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:24.199
on it. Uh, there's a there's a lovely scene between

1157
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.320
the Card and Doctor Crusher and they're talking about it

1158
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:32.159
this this. I like this because this kind of revokes

1159
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:34.679
that that feeling you got during season seven of the

1160
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.119
Next Generation. You know, whether the two of them would

1161
00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.440
always get together for like breakfast or whatever, and you

1162
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.079
know they just have their little chats and things, and

1163
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:43.519
this reminded me a lot of that. It's it's a

1164
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:45.800
lovely scene with just the two of them, something we

1165
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:48.559
didn't another, We didn't see a bit that we didn't

1166
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:51.760
get much of in any of the films. It really

1167
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:55.960
makes me feel, you know, these two characters have this

1168
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:58.400
this connection, and of course we do find out.

1169
00:57:58.280 --> 00:57:59.440
Later they'd have a big connection.

1170
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:01.039
Yeah, they do.

1171
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:02.599
I just love that scene.

1172
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.400
I mean, there are two characters that I've always loved

1173
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.199
on the show, and seeing them having the sentiment scene

1174
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.280
in this film.

1175
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:11.159
Yeah, you know made me smile.

1176
00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:15.039
Good choices. I like those. Yeah, all right, So this

1177
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.760
is one of my favorite questions. If you could be

1178
00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:19.760
anyone in this film, who would it be and why?

1179
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:25.639
So for me, it would probably be Data for the

1180
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:29.480
brief moments where he is able to connect with another

1181
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:34.079
brother that wasn't trying to murder him this time. You know,

1182
00:58:34.119 --> 00:58:37.119
there's there's moments of let's assume the rest of the

1183
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.519
movie didn't happen and this is just an episode. I

1184
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.920
think he would have had a lot of interesting exploration

1185
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:48.159
of early life with Doctor seem not knowing whether or

1186
00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:54.159
not Before was the most recent prototype or the first. Yeah,

1187
00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:56.920
it seems like there could have been some history connection there,

1188
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:01.159
and also just getting a chance to know maybe make

1189
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:06.119
an emotional connection with Before. I got the sense that

1190
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:09.480
Before has an emotion ship just because of the way

1191
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:14.639
he acts, even though his positronic brain wasn't as developed.

1192
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:19.480
So with Data having access to the emotionship and having

1193
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:23.159
access to a brother that's not homicidal but has emotions,

1194
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:25.440
would have been some nice connection moments.

1195
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:28.800
I imagine, Wayne, what about.

1196
00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:32.599
You, I'm going to have to say Riker because out

1197
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:34.719
of all the characters, I think he's the one that

1198
00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:38.119
has the most promising and exciting future to.

1199
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:39.519
Come out of this film.

1200
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:42.480
You know, he starts the film off with getting married

1201
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:46.440
finally to his true love. I mean, we we all

1202
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:50.440
knew from day one encounter at farpoint that they were

1203
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.599
meant for each other, and he finally gets that. You know,

1204
00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:55.920
He's got some great scenes in this film, and some

1205
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:59.639
credible action scenes. He gets to punch some reemans, you know,

1206
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:03.960
and and then he leaves finally on his with his

1207
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.320
own command with the type and you know, something that

1208
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:10.760
he deserved many many years before, and now he's finally

1209
01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:12.920
getting it. You know, he's going off on his own

1210
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:17.519
ship to explore unknown parts of the galaxy. So yeah,

1211
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:19.519
I want to be him.

1212
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:24.639
That sounds good. Yeah for me. It's Befo, a character

1213
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:27.159
who doesn't know much about any about anything until he's

1214
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:31.320
given all of Data's memories. But the most important piece here,

1215
01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:33.119
he gets to be turned off so he doesn't have

1216
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:35.079
to witness the possible destruction of the ship.

1217
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.480
But he also ends up in a drawer.

1218
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.440
He does, and I'm okay with that because I'm pie.

1219
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:46.880
I don't know what's going on, all right, Listeners, tell

1220
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.960
us what your favorite part of this film was, who

1221
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:51.480
is your favorite character? What were your thoughts when you

1222
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:53.920
saw this for the first time. Let us know by

1223
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:56.440
sending an email at a film by Podcast at gmail

1224
01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.719
dot com, or reach us online at a film by

1225
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.000
podcast dot com. Follow us on all the social media platforms,

1226
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:04.639
and if you're looking for more exclusive content and swag,

1227
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:08.320
send some Latinum our way through Patreon. See you next

1228
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.119
time for another episode of Phasers. Step to Stun