Oct. 22, 2024

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek Nemesis

Phasers Set To Stun: Star Trek Nemesis
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Spreaker podcast player badge
JioSaavn podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 5 Phasers Set To Stun

On "Phasers Set To Stun," we recognize the popularity of all things Star Trek, with a look at the television shows, animation, movies, and more. On this episode, our crew continues to delve into the films starring The Next Generation cast with a conversation about Star Trek Nemesis.

For exclusive episodes and content, send some latinum to our Patreon here! You can sign up for a FREE 7-day trial, or sign up for a free membership to get limited access!

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on X Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:11.480
Space the Final Frontier. Join us for a bold conversation,

2
00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.760
our prime directive to recap our favorite Star Trek shows,

3
00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:23.320
both new and old, to engage and debate about all

4
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:31.960
things Trek. Prepare to energize with Phasers Set to Stunt.

5
00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.759
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Phaser Set the Stun,

6
00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.359
where we continue to show our love for everything Star

7
00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:48.280
Trek in this ongoing series from a film by podcast

8
00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:51.200
which focuses on every quadrant of the expanding universe of

9
00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.759
Trek by covery television, animation, movies, directors, and much more.

10
00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:59.000
Plotting the course, as always is your Core Trek Crew.

11
00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.840
I'm David Byrne, and then I'm Sky Hoffman and I'm

12
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.799
Wayne whited Red Alert.

13
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:07.120
This episode is going to be full of spoilers, so

14
00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:09.280
if you haven't seen this film, please go do so

15
00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:11.519
and then come back to join us. We will be

16
00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:16.840
waiting a generation's final journey begins. All right, gentlemen and

17
00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:19.719
our listeners, we have officially reached the end of the

18
00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.359
motion pictures for our next generation crew. This film is

19
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.120
kind of mixed among the fans, and I believe even

20
00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:27.359
us here at Phaser Set, that's done on our feelings

21
00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:29.480
about it, but we are going to get into that

22
00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.400
here shortly. This film was the first Star Trek not

23
00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:35.799
to name the cast in the opening credits, which should

24
00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:39.239
have been my first Red Alert. We have a bearded

25
00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:44.319
Wriker again, another stunning score by Jerry Goldsmith and my

26
00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:49.120
second Red Alert outsider Stuart Baird directing. Those in charge

27
00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:52.159
wanted a film about Romulins, and thus Star Trek Nemesis

28
00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:54.879
was born. But before we deeply dive into this film,

29
00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.799
Wayne tell us what it's about.

30
00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.079
After attending the wedding ceremony of William Reich and Deanna Troy,

31
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.799
the Enterprise's trip to Betaz is delayed to investigate a

32
00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:09.280
mysterious energy reading on the planet Kolaris III, where they

33
00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.680
find the remnants of an android named B four, possibly

34
00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.840
a prototype for their own Commander data. Meanwhile, on the

35
00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.080
planet Romulus, the Romulan government is shaken when the leader

36
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.759
of the slave race known as the Riemanns, a man

37
00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:26.800
called Chizon, takes control of the Romulin Senate and informs

38
00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:30.800
the Federation of his desire for peace. The Enterprise is

39
00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.680
ordered by Starfleet to open diplomatic talks with the new Creator,

40
00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:38.400
and Picard is shocked to learn that Chizon is in

41
00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:41.639
fact a younger clone of himself, a product of a

42
00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.639
Romulin plan to spy on the Federation long since abandoned.

43
00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.680
Picard and the crew of the Enterprise are skeptical of

44
00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.360
Chizon's offer for PEAPs and discover that his true motives

45
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:55.520
lead to an invasion of the Federation and the extermination

46
00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:57.240
of all life on the planet Earth.

47
00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.360
Thanks Wayne. All right, gentlemen, let's talk about this film,

48
00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:04.120
all right. As I said before, there are mixed reviews

49
00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:06.360
about this film. You know, by no means do I

50
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.960
absolutely hate it. There are some good stuff in here,

51
00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:11.120
which I know we're going to get into. But what

52
00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:11.800
do you guys think?

53
00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:13.840
Oh, okay, I'll go first.

54
00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:21.319
I've got mixed feelings about this film. It's not a

55
00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.240
bad film.

56
00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:24.759
It's just it's just.

57
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.960
Not what we would have preferred to have been our

58
00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:33.080
last voyage of the Enterprise. It's really dark, really dark film,

59
00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:37.919
not just in story, but in look as well. Very green, yeah,

60
00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.599
you know, and and in that fact kind of depressing.

61
00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.960
But you know, the cast are phenomenal in it. You know,

62
00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:49.039
it's it's beautifully directed. I'm just not sure that the

63
00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:54.400
script is is up to motion picture quality for it.

64
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.560
I think there are there are quite a few flaws.

65
00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.039
I know I'm a little divided on this one, but

66
00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:05.639
I just I'm not sure about the whole idea of

67
00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:10.039
Picard's clone. I don't think that really works, and I

68
00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:11.639
don't think it would have worked out. I just can't

69
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:14.800
see him any way of it actually working on this film.

70
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:16.839
Not to say Tom Hardy didn't do a good job.

71
00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:20.040
He just I'm not convinced. I never was convinced that

72
00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:24.279
he was a younger Cardy Scott.

73
00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.399
What I think with this one, I feel like my

74
00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.519
first experience is pretty consistent with every subsequent experience I

75
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.319
have with this, which is excited about what I think

76
00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:38.000
I'm going to see, but then ultimately kind of disappointed

77
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.079
with the result. There are a lot of times it

78
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.439
kind of feels like Phantom, Menace and Dayton. I'm not,

79
00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.800
you know, digging into the bashing here, but I mean

80
00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:52.879
I have that association with the idea that I remember

81
00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:54.560
it in a certain way, and then when I get

82
00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.959
into it, I can see very specific parts that I'd

83
00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.720
like to cut out, parts where I was I'd be

84
00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.480
curiou to see what kind of a movie it could

85
00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.439
have been without some of those elements, some of those

86
00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:08.480
things that maybe they would have fixed. But in terms

87
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:11.519
of continuity, I find myself coming back to it every

88
00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.120
so often. It's not a favorite like Undiscovered Country or

89
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:17.839
First Contact by any stretch, but it does help to

90
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:19.839
fill in some gaps. It does help to answer some

91
00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:23.120
questions that are ultimately addressed in the Picard series in

92
00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:24.199
a couple of different ways.

93
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:24.759
It does.

94
00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:28.879
Yeah, But then beyond that, it's just like, yeah, now

95
00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:30.879
I remember, it's got these big problems.

96
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.399
It's hard to hate this film because everyone in it,

97
00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:37.720
from the actors to the to the production you're doing

98
00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:39.959
their hardest to make this a great film. You can

99
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.680
see it on the screen, but the script just in

100
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:44.839
my opinion, just isn't up to it yet.

101
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.240
Yeah, I agree, And this was not a box office success.

102
00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.639
As a matter of fact, it made the least amount

103
00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:52.759
of money of all of the Star Trek films, you know,

104
00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.160
Star Trek Find the Final Frontier even made more in

105
00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.759
that's a big ouch in my hand, could be a

106
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:01.040
big ouch. Apparently, Patrick Stewart was not a fan of

107
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.519
this film. A lot of them weren't, and sort of

108
00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:07.040
blame the failure on franchise fatigue as the reason for

109
00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:08.519
the poor box office results.

110
00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:09.920
That's possible.

111
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:11.800
I mean, look at how much Star Trek we were

112
00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.000
getting a bit well let's see, this would have come

113
00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:18.879
out a year after Voyager was that we had Enterprise. Yeah,

114
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.000
I think we were all suffering from a little bit

115
00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:22.360
of Star Trek fatigue at the time.

116
00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:25.199
Yeah, I think so. And you know, in Frank's Curtis

117
00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:30.199
and Burton, they criticized Baird for his direction of this film.

118
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.959
You know, apparently you know, he hated the Star Trek

119
00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:37.040
universe and knew nothing about it. Yeah, and he even

120
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.639
thought that apparently LeVar Burton was an alien with human

121
00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.879
cybernetic eyes. Yeah, why would you get this guy that?

122
00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.439
Even Frank said, if they'd approached me, I would have

123
00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:48.000
directed this.

124
00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.240
Well, I understand his name is Laverne.

125
00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:52.680
Oh yeah, for a while.

126
00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.519
And I'm just like, buddy, do a little bit of

127
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.879
homework on this. And we don't know LeVar Burton outside

128
00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:03.360
of Star Trek. He's I mean, even Star Trek notwithstanding,

129
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.160
LeVar Burden is a big name. So you get it right,

130
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.600
maybe before you get on the set.

131
00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.439
Yeah, Well, you know, Stuart Bart, I can understand why

132
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.360
they wanted him and why they hired him. He's no

133
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.279
stranger to films. I mean, he's been around for a

134
00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.959
while and it has done a lot of stuff. You know,

135
00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:27.079
he directed Executive Decision and Us Marshall's. The only reason

136
00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:29.040
I know those films is because Jerry Golds miscord him.

137
00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:33.319
But you know, he was a long, long time film editor,

138
00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.040
especially for Richard Donners. So you know, that's a big name,

139
00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:39.120
and I can see them saying, hey, you know, wouldn't

140
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.199
it be great. This guy's a rather large name. You know,

141
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:43.279
you look at all the stuff he's done, wouldn't it

142
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:45.480
be great for him to direct this? This our next

143
00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.040
Star Trek film. But on the flip side, as you said,

144
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:50.319
he knows nothing.

145
00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:50.879
Of Star Trek.

146
00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:53.959
And you know, time and time again we've it's shown

147
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:55.920
that when you stick someone that has no idea what's

148
00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:58.319
going on, it usually doesn't work out. It sounds like

149
00:07:58.360 --> 00:07:59.800
a great idea, but it never turns out.

150
00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.399
I'm looking at you, Angley in the Hawk. Yeah.

151
00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.480
Oh yeah, shutter, shutter, yeah. I mean it just seems

152
00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:10.079
like if this is supposed to be somewhat of their

153
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:13.480
kind of swan song for Next Generation, and obviously for

154
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:19.480
Brent Spiner's character data, apparently of his own design, which

155
00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.959
kind of surprised me. He felt that he was aging

156
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.199
out of characters, so he wanted to hang it up.

157
00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:25.319
I understand that.

158
00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:26.759
I mean, he was like fifth O three, wasn't he

159
00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:27.480
when they need this?

160
00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:28.240
Yeah, so I get it.

161
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.079
I get But by the same token, if that's if

162
00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:33.919
this is going to be almost the finale for the

163
00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:38.480
franchise on the big screen, have somebody step in that

164
00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:42.759
knows and respects what this is going to be by

165
00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:45.960
at least knowing something about the universe, right, Yeah.

166
00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.559
I agree, I agree, you know, and then hear the

167
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:50.120
fact that Jonathan Fake said I would have loved to

168
00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.120
have directed this if they had approached me, and apparently

169
00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:55.120
they didn't. I kind of get it. You know, you

170
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.080
want to bring maybe some fresh blood into this, but

171
00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.840
at least bring somebody who's got some kind of knowledge

172
00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:01.559
for crying out.

173
00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:02.480
Yeah.

174
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:05.200
I think the reason why Paramount didn't approach him is

175
00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:06.960
because I think he was working on another film at

176
00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.759
the time when they first started production. Because this is

177
00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:12.480
out of all the Star Trek films of the Next

178
00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.000
Generation films, this is the one that had the longest

179
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.559
gestation period, the longest time of pre production.

180
00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.879
It was almost two years. You know.

181
00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.879
The others barely got six months before they were done.

182
00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.200
So I think he was working on I think it

183
00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.399
was clock Stoppers, if I remember right, which I liked

184
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:29.679
that film, That's all how I remember it.

185
00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:31.320
I liked that film. I thought he did a fantastic

186
00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.120
job for it. But I think for.

187
00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:35.440
A better film, we could have waited.

188
00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:36.080
Another six months.

189
00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.240
I do agree we should have waited a little bit longer,

190
00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.279
but I have We have the original cast in their

191
00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:45.720
irrespective roles. All of them do an absolutely incredible job.

192
00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.399
Brent Spiner once again having two different roles in this film,

193
00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.360
and did a fantastic job with both of them, as

194
00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:56.240
he has done through the entire run of The Next Gen.

195
00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:57.519
Oh he's an expert at that.

196
00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.159
Yeah, did a fantastic job. The guest stars, obviously, we

197
00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.159
know Tom Hardy, who plays as Hinzon. Apparently, Patrick Stewart

198
00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:11.200
was not a fan of Tom Hardy. He basically says,

199
00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:14.000
I didn't have a single exciting scene to play in.

200
00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.399
The actor who portrayed the movie's villain, Shenzon, was an odd,

201
00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.440
solitary young man from London. His name was Tom Hardy.

202
00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.519
Tom wouldn't engage with any of us on a social level,

203
00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:27.480
never said good morning, never said good night, and spent

204
00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:29.879
the hours he wasn't needed on set in his trailer

205
00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.279
with his girlfriend. He was by no means hostile. It

206
00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.039
was just challenging to establish any rapport with him. On

207
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:39.399
the evening, Tom rapped his role. He characters who they

208
00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:42.879
left without ceremony or niceties, simply walking out of the

209
00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:45.679
door as it closed. I said quietly to Brent and Jonathan,

210
00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:47.639
and there it goes someone I think we shall never

211
00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:54.159
hear of again. Well he was wrong. Yeah, Tom Hardy

212
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:55.600
is has turned in a pretty good actor.

213
00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:01.080
Yes, yeah, but this is one of his earliest roles.

214
00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:03.159
It is the only thing I can think of it

215
00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:05.000
that he did before This was Band of Brothers, and

216
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.159
that was barely.

217
00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:07.399
A part in the first place.

218
00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.879
Yeah, this was he thought this was gonna be his

219
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.120
breakout role, Tom Hardy thought, and I thought he did. Okay,

220
00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.559
I really do. I mean again, it's the script's fault.

221
00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:16.759
It's not Tom Hardy.

222
00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:18.360
Right, But he got his name out for this. I

223
00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.519
mean the film did succeed in the fact of getting

224
00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.519
his name out there and you know, yeah, that's about it.

225
00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:25.480
Yeah, I know, I know Hardy doesn't mean I think

226
00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:27.120
he was struggling with some drugs and stuff at this

227
00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:31.720
time too, So obviously that pulled him out of the

228
00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:34.879
performance that he probably could have given us. But you

229
00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:36.639
can only do so much when you have a script

230
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:38.399
that's right in front of you, that's written the way

231
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:39.879
it's written, you know, yep.

232
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.480
Yeah, And I don't think one of the problems that

233
00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.519
I have with the movie is related to Tom Hardy

234
00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:46.840
at all.

235
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:47.960
I think.

236
00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.279
The character is interesting, his portrayal of it. I think

237
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.039
he does a great job. I think it's certainly a

238
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:59.360
better choice than having Patrick Stewart play opposite himself, as

239
00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.440
shouldn't on I heard there's one consideration of that, and

240
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.600
I think that's dodging a bullet that would have just

241
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.360
been way too weird. But especially for you know, being

242
00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.440
pretty young in his career, and it had to be

243
00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.960
somewhat intimidating to be surrounded by this cast that's you know,

244
00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.320
become a family at this point, right.

245
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.039
Yeah, And my I think one of the biggest problems

246
00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.360
I have with it is it's got none to do

247
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:27.240
with Tom Hardy. I like him, he's a great actor

248
00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:31.000
to lots of great stuff. But what was the point

249
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.159
of making him the Card's clone. I mean, it really

250
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.320
has nothing to do with the actual storyline. It just

251
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.279
seems like something that was thrown in just because they wanted.

252
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:42.399
To do it.

253
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.679
And it you know, if they would have just made

254
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.720
him like some like someone else, just a different character

255
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.080
that had nothing to do with the Card being you know,

256
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.279
his clone, I think it would have probably worked out

257
00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.080
better for the character, for the actor.

258
00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.080
It just makes no sense. Why would why why have that?

259
00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.600
It doesn't It doesn't make anything that I know. There's

260
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.559
some dialogue later on the film where he's talking to

261
00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:09.399
Picard and he's saying that, like the Romulans were going

262
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.080
to use him, I guess to replace him in the Federation.

263
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:15.120
Yeah, but it was something that they had abandoned.

264
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:16.879
Yeah, but they would do with the story.

265
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:19.000
Yeah, right, it doesn't. It doesn't if he would have

266
00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.279
been just like, you know, a new a person who

267
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.039
they had, like, let's say he was a Federation citizen

268
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.480
that had been been captured and was in slavery with

269
00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:32.159
the Riemanns and and led their revolt up and you know,

270
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.279
been able to take over and now he's in command

271
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.159
of the Romulans, and you know that that works, that

272
00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:38.720
that would work, and it would be would not have

273
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.600
changed the script one one bit at all, right, but

274
00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.600
it would have left out all that awkward whole stuff

275
00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.039
about being Picard's clone and him trying to, you know,

276
00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:50.519
look like the card. It just I think they were

277
00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.039
trying to make some sort of connection between him and

278
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.360
the character of a card. But it doesn't come up

279
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:57.919
very well. It doesn't come across like that.

280
00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.159
And you could have you could have had him he

281
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.639
kept the disease he had, because you know that played

282
00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.159
into that. You know, no, you didn't have to be

283
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.399
a clone of Picard at all. I agree with you

284
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.200
completely on that way.

285
00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.879
Well, And there was part of me in one viewing

286
00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.960
of this where I noticed that Picard's expression when he's

287
00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:23.320
getting that connection, like talking about the Shalloffe's syndrome, it

288
00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.799
almost looks like he's as surprised as if he was

289
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.960
meeting his own son that he never knew he had. Yeah,

290
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.159
and it seemed like, maybe, you know, could there have

291
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.120
been another direction where, similar to Denise Crosby coming back

292
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:38.600
as a descendant, he.

293
00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:40.519
Had talked about her coming back. I kind of wish

294
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.559
we would have sawd that I.

295
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.759
Do too, right, So if there could have been a

296
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:48.200
similar angle with Picard where it's kind of like, this

297
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:53.840
is basically my son created in ways that I didn't choose,

298
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.399
but essentially having him have that same kind of conflict,

299
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.080
I feel like responsibility for this as much as I

300
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.440
see this person as an inherent threat. So I think

301
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:08.240
that that dichotomy could have worked better in other ways.

302
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.320
Didn't they do that storyline in an episode like one

303
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.120
of the last last episodes of the series.

304
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:14.159
It sounds I think so.

305
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.240
One of the aspects of shins on character Shinzun's character

306
00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:23.159
that I don't like at all and I think really

307
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:28.559
doesn't service the plot at all, is his his approach

308
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.000
toward Troy.

309
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:31.240
First.

310
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:37.799
Yeah, now I'm not talking about the obvious problem yet,

311
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.519
but the fact that when he first sees Troy, he's

312
00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.159
so enamored with her and tries to touch her hair,

313
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.679
and it's been super creepy with her that entire Like,

314
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:50.519
you know, I've been on the dark side of Remus

315
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.480
for so long and I've never seen a human woman,

316
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.840
so I'm enamored with this one and maybe there is

317
00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.159
some kind of plot that he had to mess with

318
00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:03.240
the crew on that level, but I feel like his

319
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:09.279
his approach to Troy and absolutely the telepathic rape way

320
00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:14.639
to say it what it was, well, seems completely unnecessary.

321
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.919
Now that's my that in terms of his character is

322
00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.000
the part that I thought worked only because it not

323
00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.639
only did give a Troy more to do, but actually

324
00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:32.320
allowed them to attack back and and you know, bring

325
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:35.840
her character more into the storyline to become essential to

326
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.879
the the you know, defeat of him. I actually liked

327
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.080
that part of the story. I mean, it is awkward

328
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.279
to talk about, but it's still I thought it worked.

329
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.559
So I think it's fair to say that having some

330
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:53.000
kind of telepathic attack could have been valid right to

331
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.120
give her that opportunity to use that against them. I

332
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.120
don't think sexual aspect of it is necessary.

333
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.960
Well, yeah, there definitely I agree with you that that part.

334
00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.359
Yeah, but one thing we can agree on is Ron

335
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.880
Perlman as the Viceroy was amazing because Ron Perlman is

336
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:14.839
amazing and everything that oh goes he is and then

337
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.400
we got to meet him and dude was awesome. So

338
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.400
you know, respect out there for mister Peerlman I would

339
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:22.960
love to have seen him some more in Star Trek,

340
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.920
but it didn't happen.

341
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.279
I was happy to see his name attached to Star Trek.

342
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.319
I've loved him ever since the eighties. Oh yeah, it

343
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:29.799
was when I heard he was going to be involved

344
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.440
in this film. I was like, oh, yeah, finally, that's great.

345
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.279
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And Wayne, you should have been happy.

346
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:39.359
We had a nice voyager surprise with Kate maulgrew As

347
00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:40.599
anyway in this.

348
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.240
Yes, and I wish we had gotten more like they

349
00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.279
had originally planned. But it was nice to see her

350
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.720
and see that she was safe and okay after their return.

351
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:53.480
Yea, absolutely. Well, let's let's talk more about this film, guys.

352
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.119
Some things that do work, some things that don't work.

353
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.480
I know we kind of mentioned this before, but the

354
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.720
problem we have why if a Wesley crusher at the wedding?

355
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.759
It is a good question, well in what sense?

356
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.960
Yeah?

357
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.039
Well he was he left to fly off with the

358
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.599
Traveler and be some special god being thing, and then

359
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.640
now he is there, he is setting and I think

360
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.440
what the problem is he's set in a Starfleet uniform. Yes,

361
00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:28.160
he why quit Starfleet? He gave it all up, and

362
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.279
now there he is. We're missing something of the story.

363
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:36.559
Right, I mean to that end, Yes, Wesley absolutely should

364
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.599
be there at the recertory wedding, but it's also confusing

365
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.319
to your he's back to Starfley uniform, Like could he

366
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:44.640
did not have been in a tux?

367
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:46.519
Well, now I know they didn't fix this At a

368
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.480
later time there was there was a book where he

369
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:54.240
appears at the wedding naked, and the card rather because

370
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.240
they thought that, you know, being a basis in wedding,

371
00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.599
that's what they need, what he needed to and like, no, no,

372
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:02.440
we're not to that part yet. Here put this uniform

373
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.160
on real quick, and that's why he's wearing a uniform.

374
00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.000
I guess. Yeah, we got to see Guyn and again

375
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.519
she came back for just a tiny little role right there.

376
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.200
I do love the continued joke though about the naked wedding,

377
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.880
especially with Wharf. You know, he's gonna have to do

378
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:18.680
it no matter what.

379
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.039
And then the card says I'll be in the gym.

380
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.160
Yeah.

381
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.359
I was very glad to see them finally married, and

382
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.400
that seems like a good idea to have them. At

383
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:29.279
the same time, they're kind of passing the baton for him.

384
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.160
To move to the Titan exactly. I think the wedding

385
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:39.240
plays really well, and especially the Irving Berlin joke. I

386
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.720
think Brent Spodden does a great job with Blue Skies

387
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.720
and obviously so much differently at the end of the

388
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.960
card Season one. I won't spoil that for Jeff, but

389
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.400
damn did that hit hard.

390
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.119
Yeah, I will say one of the things they really

391
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.079
left there's there was some comedy in here, but not

392
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.359
as much as I'm used to with these films. If

393
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.000
you guys notice that a lot of comedy was missed,

394
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.200
mostly at the beginning of the film. Yeah, yes, But

395
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.279
the one line that I just bust out laughing every

396
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.480
time is when picards leaving is you have the bridge,

397
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:08.200
mister Troy.

398
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.480
Yeah, oh yeah.

399
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:11.359
I loved it.

400
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.640
All right, Well, I'll tell you what. Let's take a

401
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:16.960
little break, we'll come back. We will continue to talk

402
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:23.640
about this film, all right, everybody, welcome back, where Wayne

403
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.119
Scott and I continue to talk about Star Trek Nemesis.

404
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.599
Let's break this down a little bit further, guys, introduction

405
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:34.359
to Be four. One of the things that I felt

406
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.559
was really odd, it just thought out of place, was

407
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.599
that I don't know what you would call that an

408
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.440
suv whatever they were driving.

409
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.240
Oh yeah, that whole.

410
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.279
Sequence just felt weird to me.

411
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.240
Am I wrong, The dune buggy, the argo, Yeah, that

412
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.119
seemed to be like once I found out about Stuart

413
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.279
Baird not having a core understanding of Star Treker, was like, oh,

414
00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.559
maybe that's why they had a dune buggy scene. Just

415
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.680
to have a dune buggy scene, right, there is nothing

416
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.440
that seemed to be prohibiting the the shuttle from going

417
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:06.480
in different spots.

418
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.200
Yeah, I mean why would they have a dune buggy?

419
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.519
Why would they have something on wheels? I mean, we

420
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.480
never seen anything like that before. They everything flies around,

421
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.160
they have transporters. What would be the use of having

422
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.279
a dune buggy like that.

423
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.839
I don't know. That's why that whole sequence fell on

424
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.119
a place for this movie.

425
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.079
It's it's yeah, it felt like it it should have

426
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.839
been in a different film, something else, not Star Trek.

427
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:31.240
I agree.

428
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:37.599
It also felt like b Foor's story arc is oddly

429
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:43.119
out of character for the crew. So there they pick

430
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.279
up this signal from a distant planet, and I'm not

431
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.759
sure why there's a positronic signal coming from a severed arm.

432
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.759
I would expect it all be coming from the but okay, yeah,

433
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:57.319
so they find these parts that are spread out. They

434
00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.799
didn't even know that this existed, like doctor didn't even

435
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.000
mention that before was even a thing, And all of

436
00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.279
a sudden it seems like it's a trap because everybody

437
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.640
starts shooting in their own dude buggies because they all

438
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:17.160
apparently missed Shuttle day. But as soon as they get him,

439
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:23.000
they assemble him completely, and very soon after download all

440
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:27.160
of Data's memories into B four. Now, aside from the

441
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.000
fact that the last time they found an abandoned android

442
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:36.440
brother he turned out to be you know, bloodthirsty maniac. Yep,

443
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.279
wouldn't it kind of seem like, hm, this is weird.

444
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.920
We didn't know this android existed, yet this group laid

445
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.559
this trap for us. Maybe we should give it some

446
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.880
time before we plug it in and give him all

447
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:51.359
the keys.

448
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.559
That would make sense.

449
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.640
That leads me to two of my problems with this film.

450
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.000
And obviously we've got more that we've already discussed. But

451
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.279
one problem, Oh my god, how many times has Data

452
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:04.680
caused problems with this in the crew?

453
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:06.160
How many times have you said.

454
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.039
That, yes, I I said that, and here we go again.

455
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.640
Stop it, Okay, stop it. You understand turning this droid

456
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:15.839
on is not going to cause any issues. Oh okay,

457
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.319
let's just do this. No no, no no. The second

458
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.160
problem I have I feel like it's a cop out

459
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:27.160
of killing data because you know, he downloaded everything to before,

460
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.200
so it is right then when that happened, you knew

461
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.119
what was coming, and when he dies it kind of

462
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.200
takes away from his death. I mean I still felt sad.

463
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:38.079
I was still with the crew, you know, when they

464
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:40.640
were feeling those emotions. But in the back of my head,

465
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.680
I'm like, well, who cares because Before is now data

466
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.279
right here.

467
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:47.880
Maybe you clear this up with me.

468
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.960
WHOA what was the point of the B four storyline

469
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.319
other than that? I mean, who put before on that plan?

470
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.920
It was that part of Shinzon's plan. Was he involved

471
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.200
in that?

472
00:23:59.359 --> 00:23:59.559
Well?

473
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.279
What what what? Why? What? What? What does that have

474
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.759
to do with his plan? I don't understand.

475
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:10.799
I think it was to get some of the ships

476
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.440
like shields and all that kind of information downloaded so

477
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.240
he could give it to them, to.

478
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.279
Give easier way to do that.

479
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:18.599
I would agree.

480
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.119
It just seems so convoluted.

481
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.279
Yeah, yeah, and the entire sequence where before you know,

482
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.480
his sleeper cell mode kind of activates and he starts

483
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.519
getting onto the computer. We've seen a lot of treatments

484
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.920
of data scanning through things very quickly, I think, to

485
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.920
the great effect on the TV series. I'm not sure

486
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:46.119
why they went with the uh upn discount bin uh

487
00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:50.400
discount matrix effects that they had on the computer screen

488
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.279
where it has all these like following numbers and three

489
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:57.279
D like, it was such a weird sequence to use,

490
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.279
and as soon as they were saying like, that's odd,

491
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.000
somebody is accessing things that they're not supposed to. Your

492
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.720
first guess should be before we've been here with lower

493
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.200
like it's the only person on take a guess, it

494
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.240
was Colonel Mustard in the living room to fight.

495
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:16.640
He's the only one.

496
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.559
Here, right. It just blows my mind that, come on, guys,

497
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:25.440
you're smarter than this going on, but it still happens.

498
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:26.240
You know.

499
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.759
One of the things that I feel this film could

500
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.160
have done so much better. This was written by John Logan,

501
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:36.279
who obviously had a handy with Gladiator and had a

502
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:40.720
lot of political background with writing scripts for political stuff.

503
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.640
They could have really dived more into the romulent stuff

504
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.079
politically than they did. I know they kind of touched

505
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.799
on it a little bit, but I feel like if

506
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:52.640
we had gotten more of that kind of like we

507
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.799
got with und Discovered Country, you know, I think we

508
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:57.720
would have had a better film. But again, this goes

509
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.440
back to what you're talking about, Wayne, It was not

510
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:00.839
written really well.

511
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.640
Now, and you're right, I mean, it's finally we get

512
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.079
the Romulans, and everybody's been wanting the Romulans. They wanted

513
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:10.160
the Romulans, and really do we really get much of

514
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.960
the Romulins. We had a lot of the Riemans, but

515
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.279
it's a lot of shiz on. But you know, the

516
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:19.880
Senate is wiped out right at the beginning before they

517
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:24.240
even open credits, and it's really not a Romulan film

518
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:24.920
in my opinion.

519
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.880
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it is either at all.

520
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:28.599
It's not.

521
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.240
And another problem, and there there's.

522
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.400
A look in there where they talk about the fact

523
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.839
that you know, you know, everybody thinks that a coup

524
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.480
atta is a big thing here on Rondulus. We call

525
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:40.039
it Wednesday.

526
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:40.880
Right.

527
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.880
If it happens that often, it seems like wouldn't make sense.

528
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.559
There would be some redundancies in place. If somebody did

529
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.000
crispy the whole Senate that it's not, well, what do

530
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.240
we do with the planet now, right? It seems like

531
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.559
there could have been some other elements where they had

532
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.319
the riemons maybe occupying the planet a little bit more,

533
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.039
or somehow you know, orchestrating a lot of things.

534
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:03.440
Well, that would make more sense.

535
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.319
It also seemed a little odd that in the escape

536
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.240
from the shuttle bay with the card and data, stealing

537
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.960
the shuttle and flying through the hallway a cool idea

538
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.319
seemed a bit implausible, but a cool idea. But before

539
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.559
they fly out, I see like a whole fleet of

540
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:27.119
those whatever they call them, attack shorts scorpions. They didn't

541
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.759
use those once in the entire battle sequence. It seems like,

542
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:33.440
if you have this much of an army, send out

543
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.400
your tie fighters to you know, to at least shake

544
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:39.240
things up a little bit.

545
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:45.799
I don't know budget budget, Scott budget, I guess, yeah.

546
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.440
Well, they don't tease us with things like that.

547
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.359
Don't show us that if you're not going to actually

548
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:49.759
use them exactly.

549
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:53.960
So okay, now we have this great crew on the Enterprise.

550
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:56.680
They have done such wonderful things over the years, so

551
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:58.720
not only do you have the problem of let's turn

552
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:00.799
on this this robot that we have no idea about

553
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.559
is android, who's probably gonna call the problems? But are

554
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.759
we just throwing starfleet procedure out the window? So when

555
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.880
they go to stings on ship Riker and picardgo and

556
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.039
data okay, never mind, but throw everything out of the window.

557
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.519
Right, Hey, well never learn.

558
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:18.359
Doctor Crusher, you've got this.

559
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:25.119
Yeah, really that happened, and it did, okay.

560
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.119
Whatever it did seem like there were a few aspects

561
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.839
where they were not quite prepared for what they were

562
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:35.759
supposed to do. So going back way back to uh

563
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.000
Janeaway talking through you know, what they're going to do,

564
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.359
and obviously they've been requested specifically, but they don't see

565
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.799
it as suspicious enough to have the fleet be a

566
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.640
little bit closer to them or you know, like.

567
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.960
Well that's that's in a deleted scene they are it was,

568
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:55.559
if not an elite scene, it was a scene.

569
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.680
That they cut from their film and never never shot that.

570
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:02.200
Yeah, there was talk about that, okay, but because of

571
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.480
the fact that you know, the Federation Council was you know,

572
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.720
the Romuels are saying peace piece piece that they were

573
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.680
kind of all they were thinking of is piece and

574
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.319
let common sense fly out the window.

575
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:19.200
Okay, a lot of that in this movie, apparently, Yeah,

576
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.680
I seem to be a theme. There's there's one. There's

577
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.599
a few scenes that I actually love. So there's the

578
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.039
same scene similar to what we got in First Contact,

579
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:30.960
where like they're getting ready to go to war and

580
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:32.640
they're handing out all the rifles.

581
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.680
I love that shot.

582
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:35.920
I do. It was very similar to their first contract.

583
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:40.240
But right there readable piece from Jerry Goldsmith myth right

584
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:43.079
there that kicked in and just went over that kind

585
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:46.279
of montage of getting ready for war. I love that piece.

586
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:48.799
There's two pieces in this film. The whole score was fantastic.

587
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:50.200
It is, and I know we're gonna get to the

588
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:52.960
score here a little bit, but that was one of them.

589
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:54.759
The other one we'll get to and that I'll mention

590
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.680
what we'll get to when we.

591
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.680
Talk about the score.

592
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.000
But let's talk about this big, huge battle that we get.

593
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:02.920
I thought the battle was pretty neat, I really did.

594
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.839
I mean it could have been as you as you

595
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.240
mentioned the scorpions, we could have probably have seen those

596
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.319
with everything that was going on. It was kind of

597
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:12.160
neat to see the romulants show up to help out

598
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.119
the Enterprise. I thought that was some really cool scenes.

599
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.960
One of the things that scenes I thought was amazing

600
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:21.720
was when the Enterprise rams hit shins on ship and

601
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:24.880
then they get stuck and then Shinzan starts backing away

602
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.160
and just rips them apart. Man, that whole sequence I

603
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.440
thought was phenomenally well that it is one of the

604
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:30.079
best parts.

605
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:30.480
Yeah.

606
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.079
Yeah, there was part of me that kind of wondered

607
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.599
could they have used the separatable saucer section if that's

608
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.440
still a thing with this.

609
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.039
Enterprise it or not it was, but I don't know.

610
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.640
But after ramming into it, it seems like you could

611
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:46.920
have a tactical advantage behind. You know, all right, we're

612
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.319
gonna park the saucer section in your nose and then

613
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.000
take the rest of it a round to the back

614
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:53.160
and finish it off.

615
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:53.720
Right.

616
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.519
So let me get this straight. How many times in

617
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.359
a movie do we have to see the car has

618
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:10.319
to shut down a massive weapon at the end. I

619
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:10.960
don't get it.

620
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:13.559
Yeah, I mean you you hit.

621
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:17.400
Another thing that that bothers me about this film is

622
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:18.799
it's similarity to it the.

623
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.680
End of Insurrection.

624
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.880
Yeah, you know, the whole tone of the film, the

625
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.319
the the fights, Yeah, and then the whole you know,

626
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.839
massive weapon you know. Yeah, yeah, I thought the same thing.

627
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.160
It's too close to insurrection. We need something different.

628
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:35.319
It is, and it's just like, come on, come on

629
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.200
with some original police. I mean, they kind of did

630
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.680
the generations to the same thing. It's like, come on.

631
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:43.519
But I digress.

632
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:46.599
I do kind of wish that the Jordi had made

633
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:52.720
to prototype emergency transports because clearly so maybe I'm a spare.

634
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:54.960
I don't know, why does he have one? Why does

635
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:55.519
he have one?

636
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.880
Right the way that they kind of present that too,

637
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.400
it's kind of like, okay, we're talking about all these things. Oh,

638
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.559
by the way, I've got this thing, and in case we

639
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.160
need to get out, looks at the camera so you know,

640
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:08.799
if that comes up and then breaks the back of

641
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:09.359
his arm.

642
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:12.640
Yeah. I did like the sequence of Data getting autitions

643
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.759
on ship though. I thought that was cool. Yes, yes,

644
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.400
runs down the hallway and then leaps. I thought that

645
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:22.599
was cool, great effect. And of course yeah again you

646
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.720
get the cop out with them killing Data, which again

647
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:26.720
I feel for the emotions of the crew. I thought

648
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.680
when it blew up and then like Troy and Ryker

649
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.960
were looking at this scroll. There's no scream there anymore,

650
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.720
but they're looking out, which that was pretty cool too.

651
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.400
By the way, they didn't realize Picard was standing behind them,

652
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:42.000
so you know when they turn and look. I thought

653
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:43.799
that the sequence was really good, and I felt for

654
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.400
them that Data had killed himself and sacrificed himself, but

655
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.279
still we happy before. We're fine, everybody, We're cool.

656
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.720
We're cool, Yeah, and I thought they were. I feel

657
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.480
like they were intentionally trying to kind of play with

658
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.000
our emotions with the It seemed like when the movie

659
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.759
was being set up, it was set up as the

660
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:03.480
last voyage for the.

661
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.319
Next Generation crew.

662
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.119
Yeah, so then it seems like, all right, I'm expecting

663
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.200
that somebody's going to die. And when Riker was fighting

664
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.960
Viceroy in the fight sequence that was way over using

665
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:21.359
slow motion, yes nineties slow motion, that they were kind

666
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.960
of set up that Riker was going to be the

667
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.359
one that dies, and I'm glad that's not the way

668
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:27.279
that they went. Oh, it would be a horrible thing

669
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.720
to set up this Everything's fantastic Blue skies and then

670
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.559
he dies, Like, I'm glad they didn't put them through that.

671
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:40.960
This This is probably finally, My biggest problem with this

672
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.359
film and why even twenty some years later, I still

673
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.720
don't like this film as much as I should, is

674
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:52.880
that it is the last Next Generation film that we

675
00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:00.160
got and it's it's just it's just depressing. It is know,

676
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.359
you want these characters, We follow these characters for so long.

677
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:07.240
We love these characters, and you know, we want them

678
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:10.559
to have a great ending, and this was not it.

679
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.199
This wasn't it. You know, we were left with a

680
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:14.599
really bad taste.

681
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.639
In our mouth at the end of this film, you know,

682
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.440
with even Data's death, I mean, yeah, it sounded like

683
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:20.960
a great idea, but it's not where we want to

684
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:25.400
leave the saga right at And you know, I'm glad

685
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:30.440
that I'm glad that we didn't have to finally, I'm

686
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:33.199
glad that the characters did finally get there happily ever after,

687
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.360
because that's what we wanted. But this, this wasn't the good.

688
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:39.679
This wasn't a good ending to what we have followed

689
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:42.239
for it was at this point it in fifteen years,

690
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.840
but invested so much of our time and love and

691
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:48.119
you know, following.

692
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.039
And then this is.

693
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:50.719
It, and.

694
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.199
It's just no that's all I can say.

695
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.159
Really, I think that's why we kind of got on

696
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.159
our vindication when we got season three of The Card.

697
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.840
I mean, that's the fifth film, that is that's the

698
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.239
film that we wanted and got this instead.

699
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:11.239
Yes, so at least we got that out of it.

700
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:13.760
But you're right. I mean, in many years we had

701
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.000
to wait for that was ridiculous.

702
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:19.480
I feel great now after seeing that, I feel great.

703
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.079
I feel satisfied. And that's the problem. I did not

704
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.360
feel satisfied after Nemesis. I like, we got to have more.

705
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.119
You can't just leave it like this, right, you know,

706
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.840
I'm satisfied. If we never see these characters again, I'm

707
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:35.760
happy because they got the ending that they deserved well.

708
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.440
And I think they got kind of double duty too,

709
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:41.480
with Piguard season one and Pickard season three helping to

710
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:42.559
round that out.

711
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:43.639
Yeah.

712
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.079
I agree, absolutely, And you know we are talking a

713
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.400
lot about The Card too, But and so I guess

714
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.800
that makes really you know, that's that's a great series.

715
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.760
Everybody should watch it, but you really to understand a lot,

716
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.079
and you really do need to watch Nemesis.

717
00:35:58.239 --> 00:35:59.760
You know, we we.

718
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.360
Were trashing the film, but you know we're not saying

719
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:03.119
we're saying it's not the greatest film, but you really

720
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.280
do need to watch it.

721
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:07.679
It is an important part to understand anything about that series.

722
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.280
Is it's part of the story. I mean, just like

723
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.159
in the TV series, there are episodes we don't like,

724
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:13.920
but we know they're there and you should watch them

725
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.880
because they're part of the series. So I get it.

726
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.199
You're absolutely right, Wayne, Yeah.

727
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.559
And this film.

728
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:21.719
There are parts of this film that are great. The cast,

729
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.360
the main characters are all fantastic. I mean, we love

730
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:28.599
watching them and they're great in this The visual effects

731
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:33.559
are outstanding. I think it was wonderfully directed. It's beautifully designed.

732
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.039
There are a lot of good points to look at.

733
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.800
At the score. Oh gosh, the score. Yeah yeah, we'll.

734
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.559
Get to that. We'll get all right, gentlemen, Let's talk

735
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.079
a little bit about behind the scenes. One of the

736
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:47.239
things I found fascinating was apparently the farewell scene in

737
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.559
Picard's ready room near the end had to be reshot

738
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:55.599
because apparently Patrick Stewart unintentionally started crying. Oh wow, yeah,

739
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:57.840
because I mean they pretty much knew that's probably gonna

740
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.440
be it for them too, you know, no more, I

741
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:01.559
mean they didn't know if this was gonna be a

742
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:03.320
success or not, but the one they were filming it.

743
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:05.000
But I think if sure.

744
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.960
That was on the set that vibe, Yeah, I.

745
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.480
Think it was.

746
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:09.280
But I also think that if this was a success,

747
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.840
they were they were expecting a last, final fifth film.

748
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.039
To anything, you guys, anything behind the scene.

749
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:19.599
Yeah, well, you know, I got They did ask Jerry

750
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:21.519
Ryan to appear.

751
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:22.599
In the film.

752
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:24.920
You know, she was going to appear at Riker's and

753
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Troy's wedding and she I remember one thing I got

754
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.719
a mentioned stairby he hears we talk about deleted scenes

755
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.239
and early things. About six months before this film was released,

756
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.559
the script was leaked on the internet and that's when

757
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.760
I first I read it. I mean, I who could

758
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:40.559
who could resist?

759
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:41.360
And there it.

760
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:45.840
Wasn't the final shooting script. It was like two drafts back.

761
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.599
So there were a lot of stuff in there that

762
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.239
that they had cut and changed. And I remember reading

763
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.559
the scenes with Jerry Ryan, you know, and she was

764
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:56.599
only appearing in the wedding scenes. And I have to

765
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:00.400
agree for her reasons for refusing.

766
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:00.639
To take it.

767
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.639
You know, she just didn't feel that she didn't understand

768
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:05.119
why seven and.

769
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:06.280
Nine would be at the wedding.

770
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:07.360
She wouldn't.

771
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.559
I mean, yeah, she wouldn't. I mean she never met

772
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.840
these characters at that point. You know, she had never

773
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.239
met any of these characters, so why would she appear?

774
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:16.960
And and that's one of her main reasons why she

775
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:17.760
didn't appare.

776
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:19.039
And I agree with that. I thought it was rather

777
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:19.599
odd too.

778
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.519
Wasn't there even talk that Marine Turtis wasn't going to

779
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.320
sign on for this movie? Yeah, I'm going to replace

780
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:27.199
her with Jerry Ryan.

781
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.679
I think there was there was brief talk right at

782
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.639
the beginning when they were writing this they weren't sure

783
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:32.760
if everybody was coming back.

784
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.000
Yeah, and thankfully, I guess I think Jerry Ryan was

785
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:36.960
busy with Boston Public at this time.

786
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.000
Yeah, yeah, thankfully.

787
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:40.239
That got in the way and it didn't work out.

788
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:41.719
I don't think she would have done it anyway because

789
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:42.800
those very reasons.

790
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:44.360
It would have been nice to year, but it wouldn't

791
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:45.800
have made any sense, like a lot of things in

792
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.360
this film. But yeah, there was no reason to have

793
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:50.239
her character in there.

794
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:50.440
Now.

795
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.480
Kay Mulgrew's appearance we really liked, oh absolutely, you know.

796
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.559
There that was another thing that was in that script.

797
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.599
You know, there were She was originally to appear in

798
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.159
two more scenes off the screen. You know, there was

799
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:08.039
a scene with between her and the Federation Council what

800
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:10.679
I mentioned a little bit about that, and then there

801
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:12.679
was another scene after there where she's talking to the

802
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.519
card This was about halfway through the film, right after

803
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:19.440
Picard and she's on met for the first time. She's

804
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:23.639
discussing that, you know, telling him the results and that

805
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.159
needs to go ahead with the negotiations. But then she

806
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.599
kind of puts it off onto what do they call

807
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.599
that one when nobody else can listen in she goes,

808
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:38.320
you know, captain to captain, be careful, that's what she says.

809
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.079
And I love that scene. It's a pity that they

810
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:40.639
never filmed that.

811
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:45.679
Okay, I think it's a good call that they didn't

812
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.760
include seven or nine in here, because yeah, I would

813
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:51.159
have felt wedged in. I think it's a shame that

814
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:56.679
it sounds like one of the reasons that Marina might

815
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.320
have not come back is because they were offering her

816
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:04.440
such a low salary for it. They were not willing

817
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.760
to pay her a lot for it, and considering what

818
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.920
her character has to go through, well, you know, it's

819
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.360
too light. The fact that she's a highly.

820
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:14.639
Important character, absolutely is.

821
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.800
This would be a completely different movie if we didn't

822
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:20.280
have the Riker troy Ye wedding. And she's a lot

823
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.840
more than that as a character as an actress, like

824
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.320
respect that and make sure that she's in this, especially

825
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:27.679
if it's going to be the swell Song, You've got

826
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:27.920
to have.

827
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:29.280
Her there right now.

828
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.360
And she hardly had anything to do with interaction, and

829
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.679
there's really didn't have much, So I could think I

830
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.199
could see her saying, you know, if you're not going

831
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.039
to give me anything to do, why should I be there?

832
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.880
And I think that, you know, maybe that's what happened.

833
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:44.639
Maybe that's why she does have more to do in

834
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:47.039
this film has some rather important scenes.

835
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:49.079
I don't know. I don't know if that's the case,

836
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:50.559
but it could lead to that.

837
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:54.840
The only other behind the scenes thing I was going

838
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:58.400
to mention is that I think it's appropriate that Brent

839
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.639
Spiner was one of the writers on this, knowing that

840
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.159
it's Data's last hurrah on the movie, it seems appropriate

841
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.960
that he would have a hand in the future.

842
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.679
So I was in that so talking about what ifs,

843
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:15.639
and then we've kind of already mentioned some of these

844
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.000
when you've mentioned some of the elitest scenes and something

845
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:21.880
like that. Apparently there was supposed to be a follow

846
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.559
up film for this which would involve d Spasline and

847
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.159
Star Trek Voyager crews and Riiker with his USF Titan,

848
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:34.119
but apparently all those got scrapped because of this film

849
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.480
did so bad at the box office. What a shame.

850
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.039
I think that would be really neat to see that.

851
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:40.519
Yeah, they were talking about that for a while, and

852
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.480
this is one of the reasons why most of this

853
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.119
cast felt that this was their last time. They didn't

854
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.960
mean it was the last Star Trek film, but it

855
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.679
could have been their last time altogether, because Paramount and

856
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:55.840
the producers were talking about doing films that combined all

857
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.840
the other series and brought all the other characters bits

858
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.239
of them here and there, And so I mean, yeah.

859
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:02.920
I think I think that's why we got the Star

860
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.119
Trek two thousand and nine reboot, isn't it. They just

861
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.079
think they like, let's just reboot it all. Well, between

862
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.079
this film and Enterprise was just not doing very well.

863
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.079
A great series but just just wasn't do anything. And

864
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:15.119
I think a lot of it has got to do

865
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:16.239
with that fatigue.

866
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.039
It led to the end of the franchise, or this

867
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:22.840
part of the franchise. They I think the only logical

868
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:24.280
thing they could have done was reboot it.

869
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:28.440
Yeah, I agree, any any other what if?

870
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.920
I just want to mention that, you know, the first

871
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:35.480
cut of this film was really long. They cut nearly

872
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.880
fifteen minutes of foot each out of this film to

873
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.199
get it, Yeah, to get it under two hours. And

874
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:44.599
there are a ton of deleted scenes. I talked about

875
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:46.800
the ones that they didn't shoot. There are a ton

876
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:48.519
of ones that they did shoot, and some of them

877
00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:51.159
are great stuff. Some of it I can understand they cut.

878
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:55.880
If you want to watch any of them, they're all

879
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:56.440
on the.

880
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:57.360
DVD in Blu ray.

881
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.559
I mean, you got Wesley gets scenes with Wes the

882
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.239
Crusher where he actually speaks lines because he never did

883
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:08.159
in the actual film. There's some great scenes with between

884
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:12.239
Picard and Troy, more scenes with Wharf and then the

885
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:20.639
extended final scenes with Riker leaving and Bokard getting a

886
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:24.800
new committee chair installed on the on the enterprise with

887
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:27.000
seatbelts by the way.

888
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.199
Yeah, finally, I know. Apparently in an early draft, Ashley

889
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.480
Judd was supposed to come back, but they better not

890
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:35.960
to do that. That would have been kind of neat,

891
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:36.440
wouldn't it.

892
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:38.880
Yeah, I mean it would have been neat. I would

893
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:41.199
like to have seen some of the characters we got. Yeah,

894
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:44.280
such a great you know, secondary cast of the next generation.

895
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.559
We always wonder whatever happened to him.

896
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.599
Do you know Brian Singers got a guest appearance in

897
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:50.320
this film?

898
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.079
That's right.

899
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:54.840
Yeah, some of the crew remembers that takes a worse

900
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:56.079
place at the tactical console.

901
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:59.239
I think that's right. Yeah, yeah, because really was.

902
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.840
Packs were obviously, you know, with X Men and stuff

903
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:03.880
like that. So I guess that's why he got of that.

904
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:09.599
So yeah, all right, well let's take another break. We'll

905
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.239
come back. We're gonna do Wayne's favorite part, talk about

906
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:17.960
the score. All right, everybody, welcome back. Before we continue

907
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.960
our discussion with star Diagnosis with Wayne and Scott. Guys,

908
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:25.000
we all know that we're big fans of movie scores

909
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.280
and Wayne, we all know that we love Jerry Goldsmith.

910
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:31.480
Oh yeah, so let's talk about the score of this film.

911
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:32.320
What do you got, Wayne?

912
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:36.440
Well, you know this score.

913
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.480
When I first heard it, which was about a week

914
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:41.519
before the release, I believed it was around the time

915
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:43.800
of the release of the film, I wasn't really too

916
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:47.199
sure about it, you know, I remember listening to it

917
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:52.679
and thinking how different it was from his work on Insurrection.

918
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:57.519
Very harsh, menacing, kind of depressing, just like the film

919
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:01.639
in points. You know, it's he's got a very very short,

920
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:05.920
very raw, pounding opening theme because there's no opening credits

921
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:06.960
for him to write anything for.

922
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:08.960
But then there was a.

923
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.719
Lot of you know, it just it was just very different,

924
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.159
and you know, I didn't have all those zeice beautiful

925
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.239
themes that he had written for the last two films.

926
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.760
But then, you know, I had first thought that maybe,

927
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:24.079
just like us, Goldsmith didn't think too much of the film.

928
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.599
It just wasn't very inspired. I mean, it's happened before

929
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.159
on some of his other films. But then, you know,

930
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.519
the film the score has grown on me, it really has,

931
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:37.599
and after I started thinking about it, you know, to

932
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:40.119
really appreciate this, this score, you you have to think

933
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.960
about exactly where Jerry Goldsmith was at this time of

934
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:44.599
his life.

935
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:45.760
Yep.

936
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.239
You know, this was this was late two thousand and two,

937
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.119
and I think he composed it during the summer of

938
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.599
two thousand and two. You know, he had been battling

939
00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.760
colon cancer for quite a few years at this point now,

940
00:45:57.760 --> 00:45:59.960
and it made him cancel a lot of his assignment.

941
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.480
You know, he was doing five to six films a year,

942
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.920
dropped down to one or two starting with the year

943
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:09.760
two thousand. You know, his cancer went into remission, but

944
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:14.000
at this point it was starting to return, and I

945
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:15.800
really think, you know, he was beginning to feel.

946
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:16.480
The effects of it.

947
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:19.719
You know, I've listened to his score many times over

948
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:23.199
the last twenty years, and I've really got a new

949
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:26.320
appreciation to the score because there's there are some incredible

950
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.840
pieces here.

951
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.039
I mean, we talked to a few of them.

952
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.360
There are some beautiful pieces, and I think the original

953
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:33.960
release does not do this score justice.

954
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:35.800
You know.

955
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.760
There there's a couple of cues that I absolutely love.

956
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:42.760
You know, the scene on Kolaris three with the Dune Buggies.

957
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:44.800
While I don't like the scene, I love the music.

958
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:51.440
It's that's that's pure Jerry Goldsmith action music, very full orchestra,

959
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:55.159
you know, and everything. And then there's the scene with

960
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.840
between the card and chiz On when they're just they're

961
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:04.199
talking about you know, being clones or him being a clone,

962
00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:09.400
and everything beautiful, sweet Obo playing underneath with a very

963
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.519
sinister by tone. Just the whole score is just absolutely phenomenal.

964
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:19.199
You know, this ended up being the third of the

965
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:23.679
last score that Jerry Goldsmith ever composed before his death

966
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:25.719
in July two thousand and four.

967
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:27.400
You know, he.

968
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.159
Did the film called Timeline after this, which his music

969
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.000
was never used. It ended up having to be dropped

970
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.519
from the film, and then he did one more film,

971
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.599
Joe Dante's Looney Tunes Back in Action, and you know,

972
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:41.440
at that point he wasn't even able to finish that

973
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:43.599
score and had John Debney come in and conduct it

974
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.199
and finish it for him. So, you know, thinking of

975
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:50.719
that and where he was and this was a very

976
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:53.159
dark time, he knew what was coming.

977
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.119
He did that.

978
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.960
I think he brought a lot of that emotion, that

979
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:02.920
anger and that fear and into his score on this film.

980
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.599
And it's just absolutely incredible.

981
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:08.159
It is. You know, I mentioned one of the pieces

982
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.880
that I loved. The other piece. It's very short, but man,

983
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:13.400
I tell you, every time I hear it, I just

984
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.280
get goosebumps. It's the small little piece as Piccarda's leaving

985
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.320
before at the end, he does that look back, he

986
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.679
walks out in the hallway. That piece right there, I

987
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:27.679
tell you, man, it gets me every damn time. Beautiful

988
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:30.480
piece right there. But the whole score is fantastic, Wayne,

989
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:32.880
I couldn't have said it better than you. So many

990
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:34.920
different pieces about this film that you know, the music

991
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.280
is just top notch. First Contact is always going to

992
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.960
be my favorite. But and you know, I'm not a

993
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.159
huge fan of this movie, but the music it Yeah,

994
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.239
Jerry Goldsman, I still feel like knocked it out of

995
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.559
the park.

996
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:47.360
Yea, yeah, for sure.

997
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.280
And I think I can look up the soundtrack to

998
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:54.280
see if it's on it. But apparently Brent Speiner recorded

999
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.960
the entire song of Blue Skies and which I think

1000
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.559
there are some notes of that Jerry Goldsmith incorporated into

1001
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:06.519
the score that would be a nice little you know,

1002
00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:07.519
cherry on the top.

1003
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:08.960
Yeah, just to include that.

1004
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:14.679
It is included. It is included because you know it was.

1005
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.119
The score was released back when the film came out,

1006
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.159
had fourteen tracks, about forty eight minutes of music, which

1007
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.639
is pretty long US for a Star Trek soundtrack, but

1008
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:28.639
they did in twenty fourteen they did release a two

1009
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:32.280
disc complete score for this. Finally, it was very saraband

1010
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.159
that released it. Thirty two tracks, nine ulternate tracks, and

1011
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.039
then the four source cues like you were talking about

1012
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:43.079
with the Blue Skies. Unfortunately, this is the only Star

1013
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:46.880
Trek's film score that is not currently available to purchase.

1014
00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:49.280
It's been out of print for quite a few years,

1015
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.000
but you can still find it. You can still find

1016
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:54.239
on Amazon and in Toronto those It's just not readily

1017
00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:54.559
a vail.

1018
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:56.000
You have to look for a little bit and a

1019
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:56.559
little pricey.

1020
00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:59.400
I'm here too, not too bad right now, but if

1021
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:03.360
you wait another or two it might be probably all right.

1022
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.400
Well, let's move on to talk about the Easter eggs, Wayne,

1023
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:06.239
I know you've got some.

1024
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:09.400
You'd be surprised a little alike was able to find.

1025
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.760
There are some a bit of retroactive continuity. The name

1026
00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:17.719
of the Romulin ship Valdor. It was later reused in

1027
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.639
the name of Romulin Senator and Admiral in the Star

1028
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:26.280
Trek Enterprise, so you know, even though it was shown backwards,

1029
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:29.880
we finally found out where that ship got its name.

1030
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:31.840
You know.

1031
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:36.840
And this for this film. Normally the producers would reuse

1032
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.639
and redress the old sets. Like with the other films,

1033
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:42.840
they use sets from d Space nine and Voyager. But

1034
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.480
by the time this was a movie was being filmed,

1035
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:48.599
all the Voyager sets had been taken down and they

1036
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:51.800
were forced to construct everything from scratch for this film,

1037
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:55.719
so we got all new sets. The sick bay, the

1038
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:59.119
crew quarters were all brand new sets for this film.

1039
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.360
The only that they re used was the bridge of

1040
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:06.519
the Romulan Valdor was a redress the Enterprise E set.

1041
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:11.159
They just shot it very carefully so that you couldn't

1042
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:15.559
tell the difference, of course. But on the other hand,

1043
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:18.440
many of these sets and costumes that they would create

1044
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.599
would be used later for Star Trek Enterprise. The Riemann

1045
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:26.480
costumes were reused as the Zendi costumes during the third

1046
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.840
season of that show, and many of the computers and

1047
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.719
set pieces would be seen throughout the final two seasons

1048
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:32.840
of that show.

1049
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:34.880
Well.

1050
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:39.639
The fast food restaurant Del Taco featured a promotional tie

1051
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:44.000
in for this film. You know, they had four fun

1052
00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:48.079
cups decorated with Star Trek characters. They had a contest

1053
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:53.519
and Star Trek themed gifts certificates. They were action figures

1054
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:55.559
by Art Asylum, not too many of them, but a

1055
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.480
few trading cards and even TV Guy got into it.

1056
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:03.559
And released four special lenticular covers promoting the film around

1057
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.960
the time of its release. But that was about it

1058
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.119
when it came to promotional stuff.

1059
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:08.679
With the film.

1060
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:15.679
Nice also to in this it This became the first

1061
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.400
Star Trek film not to debate debut in the number one.

1062
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.679
Spot at the box office.

1063
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.719
This film was beaten by Made in Manhattan, Oh jeez,

1064
00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:30.119
by just two hundred thousand dollars. But the problem was

1065
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:33.679
is unfortunately it lost Star Trek Nemesis lost seventy five

1066
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:36.880
percent of its audience the following week because of the

1067
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:40.440
release of Lord of the Rings the Two Towers. Well

1068
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.880
that makes nothing to talk to that, yeah, but which

1069
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.719
also makes it means it was the worst revenue drop

1070
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.719
of any major studio film in box office history.

1071
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:53.199
Ouch, they got that going for him out.

1072
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.480
Not a record you really want to make though, No

1073
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:57.920
it's not. You know.

1074
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.440
One of the things I found very interesting. I think

1075
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:03.800
we kind of mentioned this earlier about B four. Apparently

1076
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:08.079
it is consistent with the episode Inheritance because it is

1077
00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:11.559
said doctor Soon had built three prototypes before lower and

1078
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:15.920
data okay, staying cool, Okay, So that does come into

1079
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:18.639
play a little bit. And apparently.

1080
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.639
Say how many of these robots did he build? I mean,

1081
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:25.280
we got we got a lot of them.

1082
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:27.679
Yeah, we do, we do.

1083
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:32.119
Apparently he had quite a pingent for losing them. Yeah,

1084
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:35.239
like he had no idea where It wasn't very good

1085
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:37.920
at that Laura was in cold storage. But I guess

1086
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.800
he just you know, these other prototypes are bouncing around

1087
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:45.000
on some kind of planet somewhere, hopefully in one piece,

1088
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:47.760
but a little odd.

1089
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.519
So here's here's something fascinating that I found too. This

1090
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:55.360
film references every live action Star Trek series that had

1091
00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.920
come before and after Star Trek. The next ration, at

1092
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:03.199
this time, Commander Riker orders the defensive maneuver Kirk Epsilon

1093
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:07.480
after Captain Kirk from Star Trek. One of the ships

1094
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.840
waiting for the Enterprise is the USS Archer, named after

1095
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:13.920
Captain Archer of the Enterprise. Oh yeah, Admiral Jane Way,

1096
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:18.320
obviously making her cameo from Star Trek. Voyager Wharf obviously

1097
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.880
returns from Deep Space nine. In deleted scene, he claims

1098
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.719
he was not cut out for ambassador life. So everything

1099
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:27.639
is represented in this movie. Isn't that pretty cool? Oh?

1100
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:29.400
Yeah, I'm interested to get everything in there, didn't they?

1101
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:30.920
They did that's pretty cool.

1102
00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:35.199
Yeah, and let's not forget the wine that the crew

1103
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:36.719
is drinking there at the end. You know where that

1104
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:41.400
was from, Wayne, That's right, Yeah, Chatau Piccard.

1105
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.440
Which is kind of interesting because then in the Picard

1106
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:46.679
season it seems like they kind of poke fun at

1107
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:49.119
Chateau p Card not being that good of a wine.

1108
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:55.800
It's apparently it is, because it's everywhere exactly. All right, Well,

1109
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.400
let's talk about some of our favorite moments. Guys, Scott,

1110
00:54:58.440 --> 00:54:59.000
what about you?

1111
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.679
We've already talked about a lot of them. I think

1112
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:11.440
Data posing is before was a clever move. He had

1113
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.159
kind of an interesting affect to his voice, that kind

1114
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:18.639
of echo effect, kind of underscoring it. At the same time,

1115
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.360
it's kind of like they couldn't like they fell for that.

1116
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:24.840
They didn't spend any time with before. I couldn't tell

1117
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:29.920
the specks or whatever. I think the action was handled

1118
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:33.920
pretty well, like the direction of the action sequences.

1119
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:34.840
To hold up.

1120
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:38.400
But then again, it's just kind of like, you know,

1121
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:41.840
those those flaws keep coming back, and you know, it's

1122
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.679
one of the things that I remember about this movie

1123
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.400
being interesting, kind of keeping my attention. But then there's

1124
00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:47.920
those weird nuggets.

1125
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:49.880
What about For me?

1126
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:52.800
As much as I love this epic battle that's done

1127
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.360
extremely well, it's the final moment between Captain Picard the

1128
00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:00.280
Commander Ricker. You know, just watching that scene made here

1129
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.519
because knowing the history of these two characters and seeing

1130
00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:06.679
them standing there possibly for the last time, you know,

1131
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:09.800
as Riker, you know, finally gets what he deserves his

1132
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:11.920
own command. I mean, I know it was almost given

1133
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.400
him a few times in some of the episodes, and

1134
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:16.360
he passed it up. But that moment between these two

1135
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:18.519
characters that we have fallen in love with, you know,

1136
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:22.159
you knew at this point this is probably going to

1137
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.840
be the it for them, and just seeing that happen

1138
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:28.400
was my favorite moment of this entire film, Wayne, what

1139
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:28.719
about you?

1140
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:31.920
I think I've got two moments, so I've touched on one,

1141
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:35.920
and that is I like the fact that they actually

1142
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.000
got Troy involved in the actual plot of the story.

1143
00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:42.840
You know, you know, her character and Doctor Crusher tended

1144
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:45.280
to get shoved into the background a lot, especially in

1145
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:47.960
the last film, you know, to make room for the

1146
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:51.400
regular you know, a card data Riker, but here she's

1147
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.079
actually given something that makes a difference in defeating the

1148
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:58.719
villain and I like that. You know, it shows that

1149
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.440
she's just not a their face on the bridge. You know,

1150
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.559
she's not just the counselor you know, she's a strong,

1151
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.280
important part of the Enterprise crew. We all knew that,

1152
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.480
you know, we finally get to see a little bit

1153
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.199
of it here. And another scene that I really like

1154
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:18.039
is right after the Card and hies on meat and

1155
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:21.239
he gives her gives him the blade with the blood

1156
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:24.199
on it. Uh, there's a there's a lovely scene between

1157
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.320
the Card and Doctor Crusher and they're talking about it

1158
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:32.159
this this. I like this because this kind of revokes

1159
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:34.679
that that feeling you got during season seven of the

1160
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.119
Next Generation. You know, whether the two of them would

1161
00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.440
always get together for like breakfast or whatever, and you

1162
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.079
know they just have their little chats and things, and

1163
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:43.519
this reminded me a lot of that. It's it's a

1164
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:45.800
lovely scene with just the two of them, something we

1165
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:48.559
didn't another, We didn't see a bit that we didn't

1166
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:51.760
get much of in any of the films. It really

1167
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:55.960
makes me feel, you know, these two characters have this

1168
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:58.400
this connection, and of course we do find out.

1169
00:57:58.280 --> 00:57:59.440
Later they'd have a big connection.

1170
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:01.039
Yeah, they do.

1171
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:02.599
I just love that scene.

1172
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.400
I mean, there are two characters that I've always loved

1173
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:07.199
on the show, and seeing them having the sentiment scene

1174
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.280
in this film.

1175
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:11.159
Yeah, you know made me smile.

1176
00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:15.039
Good choices. I like those. Yeah, all right, So this

1177
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.760
is one of my favorite questions. If you could be

1178
00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:19.760
anyone in this film, who would it be and why?

1179
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:25.639
So for me, it would probably be Data for the

1180
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:29.480
brief moments where he is able to connect with another

1181
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:34.079
brother that wasn't trying to murder him this time. You know,

1182
00:58:34.119 --> 00:58:37.119
there's there's moments of let's assume the rest of the

1183
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:40.519
movie didn't happen and this is just an episode. I

1184
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:42.920
think he would have had a lot of interesting exploration

1185
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:48.159
of early life with Doctor seem not knowing whether or

1186
00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:54.159
not Before was the most recent prototype or the first. Yeah,

1187
00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:56.920
it seems like there could have been some history connection there,

1188
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:01.159
and also just getting a chance to know maybe make

1189
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:06.119
an emotional connection with Before. I got the sense that

1190
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:09.480
Before has an emotion ship just because of the way

1191
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:14.639
he acts, even though his positronic brain wasn't as developed.

1192
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:19.480
So with Data having access to the emotionship and having

1193
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:23.159
access to a brother that's not homicidal but has emotions,

1194
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:25.440
would have been some nice connection moments.

1195
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:28.800
I imagine, Wayne, what about.

1196
00:59:28.599 --> 00:59:32.599
You, I'm going to have to say Riker because out

1197
00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:34.719
of all the characters, I think he's the one that

1198
00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:38.119
has the most promising and exciting future to.

1199
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:39.519
Come out of this film.

1200
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:42.480
You know, he starts the film off with getting married

1201
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:46.440
finally to his true love. I mean, we we all

1202
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:50.440
knew from day one encounter at farpoint that they were

1203
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.599
meant for each other, and he finally gets that. You know,

1204
00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:55.920
He's got some great scenes in this film, and some

1205
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:59.639
credible action scenes. He gets to punch some reemans, you know,

1206
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:03.960
and and then he leaves finally on his with his

1207
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.320
own command with the type and you know, something that

1208
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:10.760
he deserved many many years before, and now he's finally

1209
01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:12.920
getting it. You know, he's going off on his own

1210
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:17.519
ship to explore unknown parts of the galaxy. So yeah,

1211
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:19.519
I want to be him.

1212
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:24.639
That sounds good. Yeah for me. It's Befo, a character

1213
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:27.159
who doesn't know much about any about anything until he's

1214
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:31.320
given all of Data's memories. But the most important piece here,

1215
01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:33.119
he gets to be turned off so he doesn't have

1216
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:35.079
to witness the possible destruction of the ship.

1217
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.480
But he also ends up in a drawer.

1218
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.440
He does, and I'm okay with that because I'm pie.

1219
01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:46.880
I don't know what's going on, all right, Listeners, tell

1220
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.960
us what your favorite part of this film was, who

1221
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:51.480
is your favorite character? What were your thoughts when you

1222
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:53.920
saw this for the first time. Let us know by

1223
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:56.440
sending an email at a film by Podcast at gmail

1224
01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.719
dot com, or reach us online at a film by

1225
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.000
podcast dot com. Follow us on all the social media platforms,

1226
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:04.639
and if you're looking for more exclusive content and swag,

1227
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:08.320
send some Latinum our way through Patreon. See you next

1228
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.119
time for another episode of Phasers. Step to Stun