Richard Donner - Ladyhawke

0:00 My question to you, Amber, let's say it's late eighties, mid to late eighties, you're a studio exec and you've got rud Gerauer. Are you going to cast him in your new movie as the hero or the villain? Here? Absolutely shooting from the hip, you didn't think about it. Yeah, he has. He's done some incredible work playing heroes. He's done some very incredible works as the villain. This is it's not often you see an actor that can that can do both of these, So as well as he does, I think yes, But you know, when it's someone who's work I like so much, I'd always I think rather see him be the good guy, no matter how enjoyable they may be as the villain, It's like, Okay, hey, nice, that's that's fine. You know, I can I can cite a couple episodes we've done where you have opted for the bad boy. Yes, So you know, surprising that you're gonna you're going Rutger Hower hero. Amber. Let's let's talk about one of his his best roles as a hero, probably his best role as a hero. Uh.

1:15 And if we're gonna do that, we gotta talk about a film by Richard Donner. His nineteen eighty five underrated fantasy classic Lady Hawk. Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Johnson. I'm Amber Lewis, and this is a film by Podcast Amber. Before we begin, I gotta I gotta take care of I gotta take care of something here. Uh. Several listeners were quick to point out that during our recent Joe Johnston episode discussing the Rocketeer, I mistakenly reported that Toby McGuire starred in the film October Sky, when it clearly was Jake Jillen Hall. Jake Jillen Hall. Yeah, shame shamey my name. While I contest that in nineteen ninety nine of these two guys were practically the same person, I do wish to extend my belief that both men are exceptional actors.

2:35 Uh. So there there's that for for everyone that pointed out that that flub. Representatives for mister McGuire and mister Jillen Hall could not be reached for comments. So I'm gonna consider that again. Yeah, thank you, Amber, Amber. We're gonna talk Lady Hawk. Tell tell our listeners what this one's about. It's very romance. This is the story of a young thief who becomes entangled with a Night and the Hawk that accompanies him on his adventures.

3:19 Oh you're you're there? Are You're being purposely vague to talk about it? Okay, Okay, Hey, we can't be vague about Richard Donner. Listen, we have This is our fourth time discussing the incredible work of Richard Donner scrooged in season one, and then last season we covered Superman on our Film at forty five limited series and the Omen on our Limited nineteen seventy six series. So I'm excited that you and I were talking about Lady Hawk because you know, Scott, David, Wayne, Brad, everyone got it, has had a chance to tell Richard Donner. So you know, we gotta get the voice of reason on a Dinner episode. You know, you and I were talking about Lady Hawk, and I was like, we gotta talk, we gotta cover Lady Hawk. Yes, it's so good, it is, and it it saddens me. And I kind of pointed this out to Scott when we when we talked about the Rocketeer on that controversial Maguire Gillenhall episode.

4:27 It kind of saddens me that Lady Hawk kind of, you know, qualifies as an underrated film for Richard Donner, but it does. I mean, you know, a lot of people aren't familiar with this one. Well, and even I've seen it so many times, and I watched it twice today and it had been you know, like maybe a year since I watched it the last time, and just sitting there watching it, going, damn, this is a good movie. Mm hm. You know, it just kind of catches me off guard every time I watch it. I'm like, so good, well, you're your your synopsis was mysterious. I'm not. I'm not the I'm not gonna go spoiler free on this one because you can't.

5:13 It's one hundred years old. Like we gotta we gotta talk. Let's let's let's just let's jump right into this cast uh Rudger Hower as Navarre, the former captain of the Guard of Aquila. I'm telling you right now, just his his entrance in this film on that that giant black horse Aliath, that sword. I mean this, when it comes to movie swords, the sword that that Navar is carrying, I'm gonna put it up there with like Conan's Atlantean, you know, he Man's power sword, Liono's sword, of omens.

5:56 This is this this sword is just it's spectacular, yes, and just ginormous. And I one thing I love is in the fight scenes, like nobody looks like this is easy. These are heavy weapons that they're wielding. Well in credit to nineteen eighty five. Everything they're they're they're thrown at each other and hoisting around. It's probably the real deal, you know, just dulled. And yes, I mean that that uh that double barrel crossbow that he's got. That through me. I was like, how is he shooting twice? It's really impressive, Yeah, it is. It's very impressive.

6:36 Well, you know, if you got if it's like the one and done. Yeah, it's like, how fast is he that load that thing? No, yeah, he's got He's got He's got the double Navarre is just he's one of the the greatest characters in a medieval fantasy movie I think I've ever seen. I love his look, I love his whole story. Yeah, his armor is great. He's noble, but he also wants revenge. So there's a dark side, Oh, very dark side. It's it's amazing to me. I asked you, you know, we were talking earlier. I said, you know, choose. Choose for Rudger Hower, choose hero or a villain. Interestingly enough, he was cast as the villain, you know, the captain the guard that who is it? Hutchinson plays Kevin Hutchinson.

7:30 I think his name is Yes, he tells Richard Donner, I don't I don't want this role. I want to play he'd a bad guy, yeah, And Donner's like, hey, I'm sorry, but I've already cast that role. And but this starts off. Kurt Russell is cast and in rehearsals in the role of Navar. That would have been a very different movie. I think I feel like it would too. I mean, I don't know, though, this is like the Thing era Kurt Russell. Yeah, so very well, you know, even though I always think of him as like Big Trouble in Little China, Like he was very gritty and very serious and if you know, yeah, even the things he's you know, McCready's kind of brash, you know, he's he speaks his mind. I think I think if you had Kurt Russell doing a snake Plisken situation as Navar, that definitely would have worked. Yeah, because Navar's not a man of many words. Yeah, but I'm glad Kurt Russell made the choice he does because I'm so happy with rud Grauer. Oh my gosh, he's so perfect for this. It was just meant to be. Yeah, you know who you know who Donner initially was was hoping to grab for this girl, Sir Sean Connery. Ooh, I'd be really romantic. It would have been now.

9:05 And you gotta remember this was well at the you know, in nineteen eighty five, he is, but when when Donna was trying to while yeah, yeah, Donner tries to get this made twice before before we get the version that we get in nineteen eighty five. You know, I know one time he he came close where he was setting up shop in England to do it. Uh. And then there was a second time, I think in Czechoslovakia where he was you know, uh, specific castles I think he was looking at. But yeah, originally the idea was uh was was Connery and uh and that makes sense when we I know we're gonna talk about Matthew Broderick here in a minute. But uh, you know, I think that you have to have great chemistry between Rutger Hower's Navarre and and Izibo. But you also have to have great chemistry between him and the mouse, you know, Felipe Guston. So yes, Howard is just sensation in this film. Absolutely love what he's doing. Michelle Pfeiffer as Izibo. Now let's just talk about the run that she's on here Grease two in nineteen eighty two. I know how you feel about that film. Yeah, I was gonna say, we don't.

10:24 We don't talk fash Aboutoris too. I'm moving on. Im not gonna talk trash. I'll move on Scarface in eighty three, much to our friend Def Dave's dismay, she takes the year nineteen eighty four off. But she has a busy year in nineteen eighty five. You know, she's doing Lady Hawk. She also does the John Landis film Into the Night, where she co stars with Jeff Golblum. Did you ever see that one? Forever ago? I probably saw it in nineteen eighty five and that was it. Yeah. I can't remember whether I like it or not, but I John Landi's film that's like an action comedy or a crime comedy with and Jeff goland Like and Michelle. Yeah, we have to take a look at that. You know, we haven't done a John Landi's film. Yeah, we might have to. We might have to take a look at that, Amber. We got some homework to do. She also does an uncredited performance as a saxophone player in a BB King music video. I'd like to track that one.

11:28 I'd like to track that one down. But here, here's what I just had to tell you. I had we had to talk about real quick. She also in nineteen eighty five, and I've seen this. I gotta find it so I can watch it again because it's been a long time. But she does an ABC after school special. It was called One too Many Amber. I'm gonna give you the synopsis. You from that, you probably know what it has to deal with, But I'm gonna give you the synopsis, and then I'm gonna blow your mind when I tell you about the cast. Four high school friends find their lives changed forever when one of the friends drives drunk with devastating results. Oh, it's like the last prom. Yeah, you're gonna You're not gonna believe the four friends who play these roles. Are you ready for this? Okay? Michelle Pfeiffer, obviously right, is joined by Val Kilmer, shut up, this is awesome. Yeah, oh it gets better, it gets better. Mayor Winningham, Oh I love her.

12:35 Yeah, who doesn't. And then the star of Jawls the Revenge Lance Guest, Oh my gosh, this is likely grail of after school specials? Is this the greatest after school special ever made? My heavens, I'm gonna track it down. I'm gonna I'll find it. I'll find it to be out there right now, right now. Speaking of being out there somewhere, Dayton Johnson, Uh, you know he heard me say Lance Guest, and I attached it to I attached it to Jaws Revenge instead of The Last Starfighter.

13:16 And he is shaking his head and disgusted. But because Spidey SAIDs tingled and then he was like, he was like, He's like, yeah, Lance Guest. Yeah. I could have corrected myself and said, you know, Lance Guest of Halloween two with Jamie Lee Curtis, I love Lance Guest. I was gonna say, not a bad movie in that. But yeah, Matthew Broderick, Now, the last time you and I discussed him, you were not happy with his performance. Well, not not necessarily that he did a bad performance you just didn't like his character. You and I we covered, we covered, we covered election, uh not too long ago. But here he's a he's Philippe Gaston the mouse Well, and I like young Matthew Bradberk. This is prime Matthew Brodderks. Think about this. He does war games in eighty three, he's Fairis Bueller in eighty six. This is the perfect time for Richard Donnerd to snack him, right yep. And he's so is it me? Or were you seeing a little bit of Ferris in his performance here? Yeh, he's kind of talking to himself and cracking some jokes, you know, being a little sarcastic very much. And the whole thing, the whole like first half hour of the movie. Yeah right. I feel like if you trace the the Bueller lineage, you know, you get one of those family tree things. I think you trace them back to medieval

14:52 if we can go, if we can go all the way to medieval times. They're probably French, you know, the guest On family tree is probably somewhere in there with the Buelers. You know, this is this is the fairest Bueler ancestor here. I love what he's doing uh, you know, he's fun. He's a he's a great he's he's he's doing great as the sidekake role. But he's also doing great like his scenes with Michelle Pfeiffer, where he's he's not playing the the full you know, he's not clowning around. You must you a must feel a little sad for him because, like you can tell, he's obviously everyone's in love with Michelle Pfeiffer in this movie. She's Oh my gosh, and everyone in the audience and anyone that ever heard of this movie isn't well. I mean, the first time we see her, when you know she's got that she's wearing that cloak and she she turns around her eyes, I don't know how you how you don't fall in love with her. Yeah, she's just ethereal, Like I don't know that's the word. Ethereal. What does it feel like to wake up in the morning, and that's what she look like. I just well, you know, and you know, we've seen Michelle Pfeiffer in and plenty of stuff.

16:00 You know, she's done a lot of television before she breaks into films. You know, she's she's doing great work in in in Scarfish. She's doing great work in One too Many, But I I just the look at those eyes. I just they're mesmerizing in this film. I don't know, I just fall in love with her all over again. We're just all we're doing is talking about her. But Brodrick Uh absolutely his time with her. I love. I love that. You know, he clearly is like the weakling between him and Navarre, but he I like that he he he acts strong, he finds his strength when he's trying to protect her and well, and I love his empathy for the two of them as well, because he's quite the jokester and doesn't really want to be helping Navarre in the beginning, and the more he gets pulled into the story where he starts telling them things that they want to hear from. Yeah the other how do we how do we feel about that? Because he's these little white lies he's doing. I he that. I love where he says something like my happiest moments were when I lie Yeah, yeah, you're right maybe, And it's such an innocent thing from him, yeah, you know, because it's he just wants to make

17:30 them feel better. He just wants to offer comfort in a comfortless situation. That's a good point. So we talked about Sean Connery being Donner's first choice earlier when he was when you know, a couple couple times he was trying to make this film his his choice for the mouse Felipe Gaston, Dustin Hoffman. Yeah, no, no, think well, okay, think of I think it works so well as a kid, yeah, okay, but what if the thing works so well? Okay? But what if it doesn't work as well as an adult? But what if it was a younger adult Hoffman something to say, say, like the Graduate or Marathon Man. Yeah, I think I think I think that could have worked with a with an older you know, obviously Connor's a little bit older. Yeah, you know, maybe may I think it'd be an interesting movie, you know, Yes, like Lady Hawk in nineteen seventy four with Sean Connery and they made an interesting movie together later on. And they have good chemistry, so that that may have worked. What movie are we talking about. It's called Family Business that

19:02 actually has Matthew Roderick. Holy shit, I forgot about Sean Connery and Dustin Hoffman. They play father and son and they've got a good. Yeah, so obviously he's not getting He's not gonna get Dustin Hoffin. He calls up Sean Penn, who we've been talking about quite a bit lately on our Patreon with his movies. Sean Pinn says, no, Curtis Armstrong auditions the name. You know, so most famous role would probably be Booger in Revenge of the Nerds, who's also moonlighting with Bruce Willis. Oh yeah, okay.

19:48 He would have been a good filipe guestom. Yeah, he would have been like more slapstickish. I think maybe he probably would have brought a little more comedy to it. Yeah, think about he was always in the eighties, he was always playing John Cusack's sidekick, like Better Off Dead and One Crazy Summer. You know. He Yes, I think he would have been fantastic in this role. I'm not saying, you know, I'm not I'm not unhappy with Matthew Brodick because Matthew Brodock's amazing in this. But if if Curtis would have won it, won the role, I would have been okay with that. I just wish in movies like this, especially for Matthew brodderic like if we're not doing accents, Like all the actors have to get together and say like, huddle up, are we going accent or no accent? And everybody agrees and then we say one, two, three, go and we get like, yeah, he's on, he's off. Ruger Howard's just doing his you know, Dutch thing, and Michelle Pfeifferd just sounds like elegant.

20:51 She's not really doing anything either. So it's like everybody just decide like, are we doing this or not? Yeah? This is like this is what thirteenth century England, you know, because they had talked about the plague, they talked about the Crusades. Yeah, so yeah, but no one's doing doing an English accent. Yeah. I don't know what Matthew Roderck's doing on, but he's doing Ferris Bueeler like he he gets he gets the bronx in there for show. Let's talk about the reunion that he enjoys. In this film, John Wood plays the evil Bishop of Aquila. It's funny because I saw this movie before I saw War Games and cannot reconcile myself to Stephen Falcon being a good guy. I'm so happy you say that, because I too, watched Lady Hawk before I saw War Games really and as soon as he walked up, you know, as soon as he shows up with you know, at the gate or whatever, Yeah, I'm like, oh, I'm like Matthew Roderick alishety, do not trust this guy. He will put a curse on you. Yeah. This this is a very interesting character because it's a bishop practicing witchcraft more or less with this curse. Yeah, and he's a bishops with this woman. Yeah, you can't be you can't be lustan after Michelle Pfeiffer, No way. Yeah, he's just all kinds of bad.

22:26 He is like you know, ive Spanish inquisition, like he's he's a He's a bad one for sure. Uh. I love what the when Imperious is telling the story of the curse? Mm hmm, I mean, how how far driven must you be? How evil are you when you're like, hey, if I can't have Michelle Pfeiffer, no one can have her. But you know, it's I was thinking today when I was watching it, like tale is old as time, Like men they wont her if they can't have her, no one can have her, Like it's every abusive relationship you've ever heard of Listen, there's plenty of girls I wish I would have ended up with, but I've never cursed them to live a life. As you know, I'm happy. No, but okay, let's so let's talk about this though. So by day she's she's cursed to be a hawk. Right, it's a fantasy film. Uh, so she's by day she's a hawk and by night he's a wolf. And they get like that what like that just that fleeting seconds when the sun sets and you know, I'm sorry, when the when the sun when the sun rises, and the movie goes in the movie both it's like, yeah, it's yeah, but they it's like they get like just a brief second where they can it's heartbreaking, yeah, you know, and you can't tell they've decided, Like that's just too upsetting

23:56 because they go their separate ways. Yeah, it's time to transform. They don't transform together. Yeah, but it's just, uh, this is such a such an incredible heartbreaking and romantic fairy tale. When you think about, you know, doom these two lovers, you know, destined to be together forever, doomed to be a part forever if you did nothing wrong like they Yeah, you know, it's not like you know, like Camelot or something where they're yeah, you know, this is somebody's having an affair or something. This is just people that fell in love with this evil man. This is this is a it's a Jack and Diane situation. Just two American kids growing up in the heartland. They're not trying to harm anybody. You know, this is Tommy and Gina. You know, if you go bon Jovi, Yeah, I bring up I bring up the music because John Wood was not the first choice to play the Bishop, and I gotta tell you, Donner's initial choice would have I probably he probably would have been awesome. Mick Jagger think about how creepy he looks. Oh yeah, Mick Jagger and all that Catholic Bishop Garden. Yeah, yeah, I think that would have been awesome. It would be fabulous. Yeah, great villain. This is this is one of those villains where, you know, all credit to John Wood.

25:22 The first time you see him on screen, you're like, Nope, don't like him, want him to get his come up and yep, and everything he does is gross, Like could you working for kisses ring? Yeah? Could you imagine working for the ear boss and helps with that spiky thing and yeah, thank you, And then he had that dancer and in his garden. Let's talk about that creepy moment where there's a woman wearing a gown but it looks like like feather like plumage. Yes, and he's he's feed he's hand feeding her. She's dancing kind of weirdly, but then he's feeding her by hand. How would you have to get that call like, hey, what are you doing? I'm free? Why the bishop needs a dancer?

26:10 Are you hungry? Well? And you're a woman and it's the thirteenth century, so you can't say no. You're not gonna say no, Amber. Uh, something tells me you would have said no. You'd be down in that dungeon. I mean maybe in the dungeon. Yeah, you'd be in the dungeons of Aquaala for for for the crime of speaking your mind? Yeah, what did you? What did you think of a How creepy is Alfred Molina in this He's playing a cizar the wolf trapper. Oh my gosh, this is like he can't think of Peru and getting impaled in Indiana Jones and then yeah, sleeezes it up. Yeah, this is a rapper guy and there is nothing, i'm sorry, grosser than an animal trap. Oh, like I can be with if you're hunting an animal, yeah, you know with it's quick of some kind, but like yeah, but like the trap thing completely grosses me up. I'm with you, I'm with you.

27:10 I love the fact that you've got a revered actor like Alfred Molina. We know him for all the brilliant performances he's done, but people like you and I I quickly always remember him as like the Wolf Trapper with that crazy you know, you a brow and wild, the bad teeth and the bad teeth, and then and then you got you got him, you know with with Indy, Yeah, people poisons fish three days. You know, he's this man has done so many amazing performances, and you know, Doc embraces all of his roles, like he'll talk all to day about his one day on Indiana Jones, Like, yeahn't care the day the day he does a con and I I talked to him, I'll put a I'll put an eight by ten of Cizarre the Wolf Trapper down from dude, let's talk lady hawk.

28:03 Yeah, and you're right, he'd probably be like fascinating, Let's have a conversation. You know you probably will. Amber. Let's let's say, you know, we we I think that's all the people we really want to cover as far as this this really awesome cast. But let's take a quick break and we come back. We'll get into the film's background. Welcome back. Amber Lewis and myself discussing Richard Donner's Lady Hawk. Amber, we talked about, uh, you know Donner, this is his third time, you know, third times a charm. He gets it, he gets it up and running in eighty five. But you know, uh, we honestly have studio head Alan Ladd Junior, who was you know, one of the one of the iconic you know, he ran He ran Fox for a while I think like ten years, maybe like the late seventies. But it's it's it's it's Alan lad June that that works out of co production between Warner Brothers and Fox, which is strange because I mean, we see that kind of happening nowadays between studios, but in the eighties, it's kind of weird to see two big studios team up like this. Because I even watching this recently, I was like, there's the Warner Brothers logo. Wait, Fox. What huh, because I didn't remember it being a Fox. I didn't remember have Fox having anything to do with it. I love that Richard Donner said that he had to make this movie because when he read the script, it was a movie he wanted to watch, Isn't that That's fantastic, right? I love

29:34 that man so much. My gosh, he was so amazing. He was one of the greatest this film. That was fast talking about how nurturing he was and just how kind he was to everyone. Yeah, I mean that that's Richard Donner though he's always he's creating like a family environment on his set. Yes, and that, you know, that's what's fantastic that, that's what was fantastic about him. This film, however, was not without controversy. And uh, I know, I know, you know one of the things I'm talking about. But there's two things I wanted to I wanted to I wanted to talk about the publicity. Did you hear about this? I don't know unless you're talking about like the writer. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. Warner Brothers promoted this film as being based on a real medieval legend, despite the fact that Edward Kamara was jogging at a Hollywood YMCA when he came up with the idea. So no, no legend, no no, yeah, I mean that's take away from him as a creator. But like, I'm totally a sucker, Like they tell me it's a true story to believe it, well that I would be a total sucker for that publicity stuff.

30:51 I'm like, it's a real legend. That is the problem for Edward Kamara because he does not get credited full rights of authorship with the Writer's Skill of America. So that's a big no. No. You can't go to Union boys. Yeah, wga. They take action against Warner Brothers and who are quick to throw some some hush money at Kamara, and he took it. So he took the payoff, which means to this day Warner Brothers can still say a real medieval legend comes to the screen and he can't do anything about it because he took He took the money, So I was a pretty nice check. It probably was not fifty bucks. It was probably decent money.

31:37 It probably was. Now. The other controversy surrounding this film something I had no clue about until you you told me about this. You want you want to talk about the soundtrack. Well, I had no clue either. The soundtrack to me just is what it is, and you know, there's pros and cons, but I don't know. I was looking up something. We had watched it. We watch it every time there's an eclipse. We watched this movie, so we watch it pretty frequently. Good a clips movie, You're right, this one in dragons Layer are like the top two. Yeah, but uh so at some point I had like googled Lady Hawk because I wanted to look something up, and what popped up was people trash talking the soundtrack and just talking about how horrible it was and anachronistic and just garbage.

32:36 One of the worst soundtracks ever. And I'm going, did we watch the same movie? Yeah, Like I have had problems, but it's not like that. Yeah, but there is a huge contingent of people that just think it's garbage. Blows my mind. Listen, it's not the greatest film score, but it's it's fun, you know. Uh, it's not what they purported to be. Like the main adventure theme that plays over the opening credits, to me, sounds like the never ending story and it just doesn't like that's the piece I don't like but the rest of it, it's not all like synthesizers in tech and no, there's a lot of it that's they got a love theme and they've got a you know, fight scene theme, and you know that really fit with the story. So people that completely trash it, I just don't get. I don't understand it, you know.

33:36 Andrew Powell composes the score. It's produced by Alan Parsons. Yes, that Alan Parsons of the Alan Parsons Project. The reason behind that, though, is because Donner had admitted that he was listening to the Alan Parsons Project a lot during his location scouting. Well, what I love about that too is that Donner wanted to get like their scouting look in Italy in the summer. And Donner's like, I totally when I have that vacation, I think I need to go with you and make sure you scout the correct locations. Yeah, you know, how about spending a summer just driving all over Italy listen to this good music? You know, you know you're driving, you know, Dick's like, hey, I got some allon Parsons. Here we pop this tape. It save in a Ferrari like just sooning through the Countryside well that that synth pop sound that they have, though he felt complimented his visual ideas. So you know, we could talk a little bit. We could talk more about this, but Amber, I think we need to queue up our good buddy Wayne Whited, because you know, when we're talking scores, we always want to hear what Wayne has to say. Wayne, take it away. I discovered the film Lady Hawk when I was in my twenties, sometime in the late nineteen nineties, during a random trip to the local video store. I picked it up solely on the basis that it was a Richard don On her film, and I'll admit my first impressions of the film weren't the highest. What I did like was the quirky and proto disco feel of

35:07 the score. It was a very controversial choice for Donner to make, with many of the production personnel and even his wife, Lauren Schuller against the idea, but like many directors have, Donner had listened to the music of the Alan Parsons project while he was working on pre production of the film and found himself unable to separate his ideas from the music. Richard Donner hired composer Andrew Powell to write the score for the film. Powe was a classically trained composer and had written music and supplied the orchestrations for many of the Alan Parson Project's songs. Alan Parson himself produced the score for Powell, and what we got was a mix of classic orchestra and modern progressive rock. And I used the term modern very loosely, plus a whole heaping of Gregorian chants thrown in for the hell of it. The idea of a modern musical score was sound.

36:05 By nineteen eighty five, Hollywood had started to move away from the traditional orchestral scores and towards modern synth and rock music to underscore their films. Even the greats such as Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner were forced to abandon their style to adapt to this new trend, with varying degrees of success, which leads me to the question was Andrew Powell's effort successful for Lady Well? Soundtrack fans are divided. Some find this score to be overblown and out of place for a medieval fantasy film, with one critic citing that it sounds like the music for an exercise video played on top of an eighties sitcom. Others find it memorable and catchy, with Palell's orchestral cues shining through. I personally follow in the latter category. Powell's score reminds me a lot of Bruce Broughton's work on the film Ice Pirates and the works of Derek's Wadworth on the TV series Space and ninety nine, both scores that I love and listen to frequently. I find the main theme fun to listen to, especially when heard in bits throughout the film and in full form in the end credits. Hughes, like Philippe describes I Isoboe and Phil Philippe discovers Isobe's Secret are incredibly beautiful pieces of work, with a lovely guitar playing over the melody and over the orchestral screen, strings and flutes. I can't entirely agree that the score works for the film as a whole, and it is quite baffling that Donner decided to go in this direction with a score that seems to be the exact opposite you would expect on

37:37 a film of this type. After Jerry Goldsmith's The Omen, John Williams Superman The Movie, and Dave Grussen's the Goonies. Maybe he just wanted to try something different. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was sheer genius, but that's up to the listener to make his or her own opinion. It's unfortunate that Andrew Powell would go on to write only one more score in his career, the nineteen eighty eight film Rocket Gibraltar. The soundtrack to Lady Hawk, never received a release back in nineteen eighty five, which is not unusual at the time when albums were usually reserved for the larger, big budget productions. Its first official CD release was ten years later in nineteen ninety five by gmp Kreshchende Records, which is a label mostly known for their Star Trek soundtracks.

38:25 The CD contained twenty three tracks with a little over an hour of music. Then, in twenty fifteen, Lala Land Records released the two CD set, containing of an hour of unrelease music from the film and thirty five minutes of Walschnitz and bonus tracks. The new album was produced by Ford Baxxon and Mark Banning, remastered by James Nelson, and supervised by Andrew Powell himself. Unfortunately, as a present it is now out of print. And unavailable except for the secondary market. But if you're a fan of the music like I am, hopefully you'll be able to get your hands on a copy of this quirky and wonderfully eighties invoking musical score. Thank you Wayne for that. It's always, it's always. He always puts so much. He always puts so much valuable information in like a two to three minute stretch. Yes, look, I love what Wayne does. I actually asked Wayne to u to give us a little, a little score session on Lady Hawk because after the Rocketeer episode I got, we got more feedback though, like we love, we love hearing you know Wayne talk about the movie score. So yeah, provided Wayne is available, we're gonna we're gonna try and make that happen more often.

39:39 I think love it. Yeah, so the film, you know, we talked about this being an underrated one. I don't understand this in nineteen eighty five, I don't know what people were thinking. But on a budget of twenty million, it only it only made eighteen point four. I just in nineteen eighty five we were loving these movies. I don't understand. I don't know. The eighties are an embarrassment of riches though. Yeah, so you know, if you have to make a choice at the box office, you know, there were a lot of choice. I'd like I'd have to I'd have to go back and see like what it what it opened against, just to know, like, why wasn't this a big hit? You know, because I try as I might. You know, I'm eighty five is probably you know, it's not ninety a six, so I'm not going to have the the information ready to go. But uh, you know, it makes me wonder because the film, you know, critics liked it, and it's nominated for two Academy Awards. Uh didn't win either one of them.

40:39 You know, it lost Best Sound to uh Out of Africa and Best Sound Editing to Back to the Future. But strange that a movie like this wouldn't be nominated for Best Costume Designer. Okay, eighty five you have that's Back to the Future summer? Yeah? Is it going up in the gun and the Goonies? I mean I don't know about like were they the same week? But that summer was Back to the Future Gooonies? Mad Max? Oh wow, that's that's the coon Okay, you that's There's a lot I can understand it now, all right, Rocky four, there you go. Okay, So in a in a in a year where Rocky four and Back to the Future are your competition. Lady Hawk never had a chance. Lady Hawk an enemy mine both got destroyed. No enemy I love any enemy mine.

41:37 I'm glad we covered that one when we did our Peterson episode. If this would have come out a year earlier, m never mind, that's eighty four. If this would have come out in nineteen eighty seven, it would have been awesome. It would have been fantastic. It would have made all the money. I think, Amber. Let me ask you this. You know, if you had a if you had a favorite moment in this movie, a favorite Philip guess Don moment, you know Matthew Broderick. Okay, my favorite part. I love when he's talking to God. I think those parts are really cute. Yes, but my favorite part is when the bishop's guards attack the monastery and uh, Michelle Pfeiffer ends up almost falling off this tower and she falls and then the sun comes up and she transforms and is rescued by transforming into a hawk and flying away. And then the guard runs up into the tower and he says, where's the woman and he goes, she flew away? Yeah? Yeah, And I just love that mode and he's like that it's true, she blew away. I like the Imperious. I love his like, you know, the guards are you gotta get through his castle which is basically just this giant booby trap and all these guards are just

43:10 like getting wiped out. And he's like, I'm a monk, not an architect. Just how much better would this movie have been? Though? If it had been Brian Blessed as Imperious. I love him so much. He would have been so great. That would have been fun. Okay, yeah, I could go with that one, all right. You you were quick to talk about your favorite moment with with Philipe. How about a favorite moment between the the ill Fated lovers Unvar and Isibo? Anything come to mind? Oh boy, I don't know. I think uh. I love the ending.

43:51 I love oh that ending is like when he picks her up and swings her around? Do you know that? That was so lighthearted? Yeah? That him him, He just did it. So he pulled He pulled Richard Donner aside and said, hey, I've got this thought. What if I what if I scoop her up in my arms, and Richard's like, I love it, don't tell her you're gonna do it. So the reaction that you see Michelle Pfeiffer on her face and that that that that, that's all, that's all authentic. She had no idea. Yeah, I'm weak in the knees. Yeah, it's fantastic. You want to talk a little bit, Uh it is? You want to talk a little bit about Richard Donner?

44:39 Oh yes, please, Okay, So I'm gonna give you a couple a couple of fun, fun facts and then I got I got a fun quote from from the Man. Oh okay, let's talk about what he didn't do. So Richard Donner almost directed Batman in nineteen eighty nine with Mel Gibson. He had always planned to produce and direct The Lost Boys, but when they hit some delays, he decided to direct Lethal Weapon instead, and he caught up his buddy Joel Schumacher and hired him, and you know, he stayed on as executive producer. So he's like, yeah, I don't have time, but I'll call Joel, and then this one blows my mind.

45:24 He also turned down an offer from Michael Crichton to direct Jurassic Park. Oh wow. Think think about this for a second. Batman, The Lost Boys, and Jurassic Park three of the biggest blockbusters of all time, and they were almost directed by Richard Donner. I honestly, I don't know if it would have if we would have got better movies or not because of what they are. I couldn't imagine Tim Burton or Steven Spielberg not directing those two movies, but imagine a world where Richard Donner directs them. I don't think the Richard Donner movie would be like, Oh, that wouldn't be as good.

46:08 I think they would be equal. Yeah, I don't know that they would. Yeah, I don't think one would be better than the other. It would just be different mm hmm, which shows you how good he was. Yeah. Absolutely, uh wow. I don't know how Wayne will feel about this one. But he never hired a composer twice unless the film was a sequel. So if he did it, if he was doing what if he was doing a SQL, he's bringing he was bringing the composer back. But other that, Nope, new composer every time it is. I wonder, I wonder I wonder why, you know, because I I think you know, we've talked before about on this on this show, about how certain directors have a have a specific look. You watch a movie and you go, this is a John Carpenter movie, I can tell, or this is a Steven Spielberg movie I can tell. I don't know that necessarily Donner has a unique look to his films. Maybe I'm wrong, you know, but maybe he was worried about using the same composers and having a say, I guess, a familiar sound. Maybe. Yeah, I mean anything that you know, can pinpoint you. If you don't want to be pinned down. Yeah, you know you're going to try to avoid that. The man was always known for his sense of humor, you know, And I love this quote from him. He once said, quote, I have a bust of Abraham Lincoln in my office, and it's not because of the greatness he did for our country, but it's because that whenever I look at it, I have

47:40 to remember an actor killed him. The guy. The guy he was, he man, he was one of a kind. He was absolutely one of a kind. So listen, we like I said, we we This is our fourth time talking about Richard Donner. You know, we we've covered his filmography quite a bit, so we're not gonna we're not gonna rehash that. But but Amber, I would have to ask you if you had to make one choice, like if you had a favorite Superman Superman not even getting the question out favorite favorite with your daughna movie of all time Superman, Well, listen, it's it's my answer to it's the great superhero movie of all time.

48:27 I agree, I absolutely agree with you. I have to also believe that you're gonna recommend people see Lady Hawk. Correct, Oh my heavens, yes, yeah right, it's so much fun. It's so great and and also like family friendly, which is nice. Where'd you see this one the first time? I meant like like streaming streaming wise? Did you I bought it on Prime? Yeah, because I have to have a copy, Like I said, we watch it once or twice. Sit here, Yeah, I've got the the bare bones like the original Warner Brothers DVD. You remember those, Like they're like the cardboard snapcase. Oh yes, it's it's a relic. I get it. But like the Blu Ray, the Blu Ray doesn't look like there's much to it, Like I'm gonna say, yeah, I didn't see a lot of there's not a lot of extra things out there for this movie. Yeah. That makes me sad because this movie is so fantastic. I love this film. But a nice good print. You know, four K would be great too, It would it would be great.

49:37 Warner Brothers. Come on, help us out, listeners. What do you think of Lady Hawk. You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a film by podcast dot com for all of our episodes that are streaming free on the platform of your choice. There's some other fun stuff to check out. When you're on a podcast dot com. You can also write to us with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some film by swag. This Friday, our limited series A Film at forty five will celebrate the forty fifth anniversary of Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse Now, so definitely come back in a couple of days to check that one out and an amber. As always, it's pleasure, you know. I'm imagining you'll be back soon. We'll get another one lined up for you.

50:30 Right, absolutely yeah, And to those of you listening every week, following us, and subscribing to our Patreon, we thank you. Pat