Strange New Wednesdays - Among the Lotus Eaters

0:04 Space the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of Strange New Wednesdays, It's continuing mission to explore episodes of Strange New Worlds to seek out new information and new discussions, to boldly go where no podcast has gone before. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Strange New Wednesdays, where we continue to talk everything about the current season of Star Trek Strange New Worlds once again Redd Alert.

0:52 Please be warned. Spoilers our heads, so if you haven't seen this week's episode, please stop, go watch it and come back to join us. I am David Burne, and I'm Scott Hoffman and I'm Wayne White. Today we are discussing season two, episode four among the Lotus eaters. Gentlemen, let the forgetting begin. Wayne, Can you give us a quick recap this episode? Ah? Yes, I can. The Enterprise is sent to Rigel's seven, a planet where an earlier mission went horribly wrong. Pike, Leon, and Mabenga go down to the planet to discover that a crew member long thought dead on a previous mission is alive and well and has made himself the ruler of a population that has their memories wiped night after night. When Pike and his crew also begin to lose their memory during their stay. Their investigations lead them to a natural occurrence from an orbiting asteroid as the cause, but now stranded on the planet without their memories, Pike must find a way of rescuing his crew, defeating his former crew mate and end his reign and saving the citizens of Rachel's seven from their endless amnesia. Hell all right, that uh, that kind of sums it up. Wait what was it? What was the middle thing? Wait? Pike went on a planet and may find open and they did things. So, um, where are we? What are we talking about? I don't know what? Who are you? Who is this? Is this a microphone? So? Um, this whole episode

2:25 is practically an easter egg, right, This is um a sequel to the case, you could say, right, yes, that's right. Yeah, Well it almost kind of seems like it's a it's a prequel slash sequel, Yeah, kind of, because it's taking us back to something that, as far as I know, we haven't dug that deep into from the from the first episode of the show, right, I mean, it only took like fifty seven years to get this, but hey, correct, better late than never, I suppose maybe they forgot I don't know, so, um, you know, yeah, we really get to dive in to see basically what was the biggest failure for Captain Pike, right, losing the three crew members, well supposedly three and almost losing Spock in the process as well. So we get to he gets basically to go back and clean up his mess.

3:19 Basically, you could say, right, yeah, current something he takes a lot of responsibility for. But um, I think he's probably taken too much onto that. But any captain thanks responsibility for the mission. Yeah, I mean we finally get some Captain Pike. Um, it only took four episodes to finally get a decent amount of him on screen, which again we've talked about before. You know, we we know, we get to see a lot of the other crew members, and we get to see another crew member in this one, Shine, And we'll talk about that a little bit. And I'm sure you know both who were talking I'm talking about here and I'm excited to talk about those scenes. But you know, we get to see a little bit more of the relationship between Pie and what's her name, Hotel Betel, Thank you Bettel. Yeah, we get to see a little bit more of that, the back and forth. You know, remember we found these two. He was cooking for her in the first episode of season one, you know, and here he is again cooking. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that going back to that first episode of season one and she's one of the people that kind of gets him back on the horse so to speak, and says, you got to get back out there. I love the fact that we get more of that relationship because I think their chemistry is great and it's interesting seeing this kind of interaction between captains of different ships, right.

4:33 Yeah. Absolutely. I appreciated the fact that, you know, we got to see a connection to the Cage, which was supposedly supposed to be the pilot of Star Trek with Pike. I felt like this was the weakest so far of this season. It could have just been me. Don't get me wrong. There are some scenes in this that I thought were really well done, and one of those crew members got to shine in those episodes, and I mean in those scenes. But overall, I felt this was the weakest because the scenes that we saw on Rigel seven, there a lot of those I could really care care less about. Is that was that just me? Now? I agree with you. I think especially the parts about them losing their memory kind of dragged. The middle part dragged a lot until um he started going back to the the the castle. I just it was just, in my opinion, just way too long. Yeah, I agree, Scott, what about you? But I disagree. I'm gonna take the contrary to that. I think this one didn't have as much dramatic depth as the other ones did, even the previous episode that was a little bit more fun.

5:46 There were still some fun elements of this. I think that we eventually, but I really thought it was fascinating looking into that relationship between Pike and Bettel, kind of book ending us and you know, giving us a little bit more depth into that. I think it's going to kind of raise the stakes with that relationship. But um, I thought they're they're handling of the forgetting and the amnesia. It seemed to me, you know, I haven't done a research to see how much truth there is to this, but a lot of it felt like they had done a lot of research into things like Alzheimer's and dementia and actual memory loss. I thought the use of tenitis to kind of frame up the blackouts was really smart, and I think they handled it in in a great way. It was interesting to see how quickly the ship falls apart without a crucial component, which is the crew, and we get it into that great hallway scene where they're all kind of just deliriously kind of wandering around cowering in corners. Yeah, I thought it was really interesting.

6:53 I think in particular the character of Luke I, you do bring up a good topic about the memory loss and those kind of things. Because one of the things I did bring from this episode was, you know, that deep question that we're presented with in this episode is you know, would you want to remember the pain and the loss of someone. You know, we get one of those characters who you know, basically he says, you know, I do I don't want to remember, and you know, they take him back into the castle and he does and he, you know, he remembers losing his family. Basically, you know, would you want that? I mean, what the consequences obviously are You're going to forget the people that were in your life, but if you lost those, it's all going to become flooding back to you when you remember. I mean, I thought that was pretty deep in itself right there. That is pretty deep. But I think personally, I'd want to remember as much as I wouldn't want to live through certain moments. Ever, again, you know, they do shape who we who we are, and I like that Luke had that journey that we kind of went on with him. I think things like the tattoos that were blacked out was really smart, and him talking about you know, um emotions guiding where memories can't. I don't know, I feel like we got a lot of depth into the character of Luke Um, even though we didn't get that much with the other characters. Although it feels like we did get a bit of a reveal, particularly with Pike, you know, when you strip away all those things that kind of define who he is, getting into that

8:26 protective mode and kind of slipping into a rage that I don't think we've ever seen from this character, which was fascinating. Yeah, And I think that, you know, we get that the beginning stuff with him and Betel, you know, we get that, you know, he's basically realizes that he's causing some problems with with her because it clearly she lost a promotion because of some of the stuff that happened. You know in that episode where you know we were trying to Una basically was on trial, you know, because you mentioned Admiral Passik again who was the vulcan who was with her trying Una. So you know, I feel for Pike too because he wants to back away, but he doesn't too, so he obviously takes the easy way out and confronts him about that too, which I thought that was pretty neat and it's great that they're exploring this side of a captain. That's something that Star Trek's really never done is show an actual relationship and the ups and downs of it with a starship captain. The only person we've ever seen that was with Commander Cisco and he wasn't really a starship captain, but we never saw it with Picard Kirk, Jane Way and I hope that they continue with this and really explore because I'd love to see what they do at the end, whether they get together, whether they break up. But still it's going to be a great journey for Pike, right, I agree? So um any any favorite scenes in this Scott, I do have to give credit to a minor character.

9:54 I think King Zacharias is that what it be called. I'm not sure I thought he was a He was a fun minor character, um it was. It was fascinating to see him kind of turn that quickly, um into kind of a medieval king almost. But the way he was taunting Pike when he was losing a school, I was like, you are poking a bear that you do not want to poke. You need to stop right now. Yeah. Um, But I think the main thing that I found really entertaining, and we'll get into this, i'm sure later, is ortegasm. The enthusiasm with getting ready for the mission and when she loses her memory, that was gold, that was absolute gold. She was so proud to finally get to join an away team, and you know, she comes down into getting ready to leave to only discover that Spock is the one who causes her not to be able to go, you know, and you know, you just see her just face drain of life when she realizes she has to stay on board of the Enterprise because of the asteroids field and stuff. And I love the fact though she was made fun of for the hat, but as she's leaving, realizing she's on the Enterprise, she puts the hat right back on oh yeah, kind of defiantly. She's like, well, I'm wearing the hat, damn it. You can't stop me from doing that, that's right.

11:13 Yeah. I thought that was such a cool scene. And you know that she was my favorite, and she was the one I was alluding to earlier. I loved everything in this episode about her, loved her so much. Yeah. I keep going back to that line, I'm Erica Ortegas, I fly the ship. I fly the ship. Yeah yeah, even her her personal log I'm Lieutenant Eric Ortegas. Most of the time, I fly the ship, which is cool, but can't get boring, yea, yea. And you know it, really that really shows because she was getting bored with her position and she didn't realize the importance that she had, and you know her going through losing her losing her memory, you know her you know, being freaking out going from the bridge down to her quarters and then talk walking basically to the computer, and then realizing that she does fly the ship and she goes back to the bridge and basically saves everybody. She finally realizes an end that how important her position is, and you know she's good at it. Yep, yep, I think it was an interesting kind of what I want to say, kind of a an opposite of what Embenga was going through in this. So she is saying, you know, I'm a pilot, that's my everyday thing, but I kind of want to break out and I kind of want to be more, whereas Embenga was saying, I'm the doctor, but you're bringing me because of my fighting skills. I mean, you probably want me as a field medic, but you also want me as a soldier. And him not necessarily appreciating that. I thought that was interesting.

12:43 It was a cool twist because you're right, Typically you'd bring the doctor because you need that medical but he's a great fighter. But it's funny because it turns out they actually have to use it him as a doctor. So right, yeah, so it worked out in the end, right, yep, exactly What about you? What's the favorite moments? Well, so this is this episode, out of all the episodes, felt the most like an original series episode. To me. It did your um, you know, we've we've seen things like this before. Um. One a piece of the action was one episode of Patterns of Forest with the Nazis. Uh so this is this is old territory to me. Um, you know, where the prime directors violated and they have to go back. The civilization has been UM contaminated. They have to go back and try to set things right. UM.

13:35 I enjoyed that, and I enjoyed the little little extra hints and connections to the series UM which we've already mentioned the biggest ones, but there were a few few little ones that I think a lot of people may miss. Um. Uh. You know, when we saw the delta symbol that they found from the long range photos, UM, they they went through the effort of making sure that it was the old UM delta side, the one that we saw during the first season of Discovery, which would have been about the right time note that that mission had taken place, rather than I kept the current one that they're using. Yeah. Yeah, And um a battel the little uh medallion that she gives Pike. She mentioned to come it comes from Galt and UM. I caught this right away, but I'm not sure if very many people did. That's actually the colony where Warf grew up with the Rajinkos. And also, and this one, I actually had to go back a couple of times because this was such a quick show. I mean we're talking like a half of a second. But the bottle of wine that Pike and Betel are sharing his Chateau Picard, Oh wow, that's nice. Great touches there. I love when the show, as I mentioned the last episode, it connects to the whole of Star Trek, and there wasn't too many in this I mean, well, actually the whole episode was an entire action to where the past of Star Trek can. I just love looking for these things, and I hope they continue with it. They seem to be doing

15:05 that more and more this season, and I love it. Yes, yeah, And you've got such a sixty years of continuity and the fact that they're just having fun with it. Why not that's the way exactly exactly. Well, I think it's a great idea to stitch all that stuff together because then you've got people that are kind of like, maybe I want to come back and see this episode that has a little bit of background. I mean, before seeing things like this series, there wasn't much about original series that I was really dipping back into because I had always followed in this generation except for watching Space Seed to catch up on CON's background, right, you get more kind of hints at which episodes you can dip into, Which can I get you hooked in the rest of the series. The only original series thing that I caught and Wayne, those are good catches. They're great catches. The old school tricorder. Yes, I caught that too. Yep, Yeah, I thought that was awesome that I saw Pop. I was saying, hey, look I recognized, right, I know what that is. That was pretty cool. So for you guys, which character do you think shine the most clearly? You know mine? Wayne, what was your who was your well? You know, this episode confused me at first because I thought from from the trailer, from the clips that we saw, this was going to be Ortega's episode. And I'm going to be honest, I'm rather disappointed.

16:30 I don't feel it was. Um this was Pike's episode, and I'm glad to see that because, I mean, we haven't seen much of him this season, but he shined above all of them. Really. His attack in the when he went back to the castle and attacked as Zach showed how just how far he would go to protect his crew. When when all the inhibitions were were were let out, all his emotion was fantastic and and Anson Mount performed incredible and he's a great actor anyways, but this really showed. He really showed his acting shops. But I was disappointed because I was expecting this the trend to continue with focusing and centering on characters, and I thought this would be Ortega's episode. But in my opinion, we learned nothing new about her. We knew that. We found out that she could fly the shop and that was it. And I hope you know when we saw her at the beginning when she couldn't go on the away mission and Pike turns around and says, uh, you know, I can't remember exactly what he says, but if your next or I'll get to your next. I hope they really do, because she deserves an episode to really bring her character out, to show more, to show background, and that's what we want to see.

17:44 I want to see that with more of the characters, and she did not get this episode. I think it wasn't there a scene in the trailer for the season where she's flying a shuttle in pithe with her and he's kind of like freaking out if she's flying it. Yes, there was. I thought that was be this episode. Yeah, I did too. Actually, so I guess that is coming soon. So I guess he's going to keep his word, and um, you know, bring her on in away mission, Scott, what about you? Well, I haven't feel like I know what your answer is, and I feel like I should choose somebody else to give it a bunch of a bit of range. I think in terms of Ortegas, we get some great moments with her. I think when you've got a great point, we get we don't get that much depth into her story, which is very interesting, and I really hope we get more of that.

18:26 I think she had a fantastic performance. I do think it's interesting that their proximity to the asteroids meant that they had more memory loss than anybody and the fact that she was able to do what she did with none of that memory intact I think speaks to her natural talents as a pilot, her natural instincts as a pilot, and I think that's fantastic. It's something she didn't even know that she could do. And I'm sure that there were you know, something about the interface has to be able to help with that, but the instincts of being able to you know, um, do what she did, specifically threading the needle. I thought that was kind of a cool, cool scene. Um. If I was going to choose somebody that's not Ortegus, because I'm going to give that to you, Dave, it is, I'm going to go with Luke. Um. I think did a lot to um Uh, not only it was more than just a memory loss episode, because I know that we've seen that a lot in Star Trek in various ways.

19:30 This is the first one where I have seen somebody taking more of a you know, we understand this is a long term condition, so here's how we live with it, Here's how we think about it. Here the important things to go through, the fact that they had this community that kind of helped each other do these things. Um. I think he gave a lot of depth to an aspect of the story that could have been just a minor element. So I know that, you know, a lot of it is the way the character is written and the scenes that are written. But I think that that actor did a great job and performing that role. So I mean, obviously mine is Erica or tag Us. I agree Wayne with you.

20:12 We didn't learn a lot about her her background and those kinds of things. But to Scott's point as well, she was very strong. We know she's a pilot, we know she can fly the ship, but the mere fact that she can go through what she went through to realize what she needs to following her emotions, following you know, her gut instincts basically, and able to fly that ship. I thought it was a really good balance in this episode between two characters, and that would be Pike, and that would be or take us. In my opinion, we're going back between the two of them, and I thought it was a great balance. And of course we get the book ends with Pike. So and you're right, I hope we get to seem more about her because I like her character a lot. I like all these characters were trying out out. Yes, yeah, so I find all of them very very interesting and I cannot wait to dive into more.

21:00 So, Yeah I will, I will say, David, that's a great point. We didn't learn more about her, but I like her so much more. With her performance in this it was just so entertaining, Like it was her conversation with the computer like Plota what now exactly? What was so well done? It was? It really was, and even when the ship was repeating back to her who she was, she kind of give that look like, really, you're going to keep that doing that? So congratulations the actresses. She's a fantastic actress. I just want to see an episode given to her, sure a greatly about her, Let her really show, let her really bring her character out and show us what she and her character can do. I agree. I agree. So if you could be any character in this episode, who would you be? Wayne? Um? Well, actually I guess it'd be Zach. I mean, he may have been left on his own, but you know, for what five years, But I don't think it did too bad for himself. You know, he took his knowledge and his technology and became high lord you know, the planets and had his own alice and his own guards, and uh, you know, the only thing he is is he's still wearing it at stupid Starfleet uniform.

22:07 I mean, after five years, I would have changed his shirt. But and then you know, of course, you know Pike had to come and spoil it off for him. But that's that's who I'd like to be. Nice Scott, what about you? If I've got to go with Lieutenant or Erica Artegas Um. I think just her interactions, you know, when she was having her forgetting UM were great. But the chance to sit down and fly the enterprise UM without having a lot of I mean, you know, obviously if I had her instincts, but I've never touched one of those consoles me. If this is a chance to sit down and do that, that would be amazing. Absolutely I would my lot of choice, would you, I would go with ortegas Um, But I'm gonna go with me Membinga.

22:48 I can't see his name. I'm gonna go with Memba because you know, he's being used to not just be a doctor, but be a where going on the away mission but ending up still having to be that doctor completely being relied on, and you get to be on the way to admission, even though you go through the amnesia part of it all, which kind of stinks because you know he did some freaking out like everybody did. But that's who I would go with. I just didn't want to repeat what you had to say, Scott, But I really I really liked his character too in this. I think he does a wonderful job as well. I think he's a reflection of the kind of depth that we hopefully get with Ortegas, right, more than just the ship's doctor, but the death with his daughter, the depth with his you know, fighting abilities, and all the other kind of stuff. Even it's the second time we've seen him give that wiping under the eye gesture to Laon. Yeah, I'm sure that's going to come up later another episode. But little things like that are just fascinating. They don't have to explain it all right away, just to us eventually, I agree.

23:56 What looks like our next episode five is a charade or sharads however you want to to pronounce. It looks like it's a shuttle accident with Spock and Chapel and apparently something happens to Spock. It looks like it might be a fun episode. But for me, I'm excited because I get some more Chapel. That's right, yep, Now I gotta ask um. I had two different experiences looking at the next episode, because they're at the end of the ready room. They showed a clip of that about them being on the shuttle together. But then when I watched it on TV, one of the commercials that came up was a trailer for the next episode, and yeah, it looks like and I might be wrong about this, but there might be like a biology swap between Chapel and Spock. There's something going on with with the vulcandine or something. Yes, I don't know what it is, but something is up with that. Yep, you're right. Yeah. Could you see him with like rounded ears and you know his hair is mussed up and he says what he does a hand may exactly. So yeah, it looks like we'll get a lot more into that relationship and a lot more into um, you know, breaking spot down in another way. Yep, that's right, all right. For all of our listeners out there, what do you think is going to happen next? We're gonna open up a channel give us your thoughts, predictions, and questions on social If you want to leave a comment, discuss what's next, or even half suggestions, you can find us at www.

25:26 Dot film by podcast dot com. Film by Podcast at gmail dot com, a film by podcast on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. I'm Lieutenant Erica or take us and I fly to the show. H