Strange New Wednesdays - Among the Lotus Eaters

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Space the Final Frontier. These are
the voyages of Strange New Wednesdays, It's

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continuing mission to explore episodes of Strange
New Worlds to seek out new information and

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new discussions, to boldly go where
no podcast has gone before. Hello everyone,

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and welcome back to Strange New Wednesdays, where we continue to talk everything

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about the current season of Star Trek
Strange New Worlds once again Redd Alert.

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Please be warned. Spoilers our heads, so if you haven't seen this week's

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episode, please stop, go watch
it and come back to join us.

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I am David Burne, and I'm
Scott Hoffman and I'm Wayne White. Today

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we are discussing season two, episode
four among the Lotus eaters. Gentlemen,

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let the forgetting begin. Wayne,
Can you give us a quick recap this

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episode? Ah? Yes, I
can. The Enterprise is sent to Rigel's

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seven, a planet where an earlier
mission went horribly wrong. Pike, Leon,

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and Mabenga go down to the planet
to discover that a crew member long

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thought dead on a previous mission is
alive and well and has made himself the

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ruler of a population that has their
memories wiped night after night. When Pike

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and his crew also begin to lose
their memory during their stay. Their investigations

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lead them to a natural occurrence from
an orbiting asteroid as the cause, but

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now stranded on the planet without their
memories, Pike must find a way of

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rescuing his crew, defeating his former
crew mate and end his reign and saving

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the citizens of Rachel's seven from their
endless amnesia. Hell all right, that

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uh, that kind of sums it
up. Wait what was it? What

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was the middle thing? Wait?
Pike went on a planet and may find

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open and they did things. So, um, where are we? What

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are we talking about? I don't
know what? Who are you? Who

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is this? Is this a microphone? So? Um, this whole episode

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is practically an easter egg, right, This is um a sequel to the

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case, you could say, right, yes, that's right. Yeah,

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Well it almost kind of seems like
it's a it's a prequel slash sequel,

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Yeah, kind of, because it's
taking us back to something that, as

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far as I know, we haven't
dug that deep into from the from the

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first episode of the show, right, I mean, it only took like

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fifty seven years to get this,
but hey, correct, better late than

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never, I suppose maybe they forgot
I don't know, so, um,

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you know, yeah, we really
get to dive in to see basically what

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was the biggest failure for Captain Pike, right, losing the three crew members,

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well supposedly three and almost losing Spock
in the process as well. So

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we get to he gets basically to
go back and clean up his mess.

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Basically, you could say, right, yeah, current something he takes a

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lot of responsibility for. But um, I think he's probably taken too much

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onto that. But any captain thanks
responsibility for the mission. Yeah, I

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mean we finally get some Captain Pike. Um, it only took four episodes

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to finally get a decent amount of
him on screen, which again we've talked

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about before. You know, we
we know, we get to see a

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lot of the other crew members,
and we get to see another crew member

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in this one, Shine, And
we'll talk about that a little bit.

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And I'm sure you know both who
were talking I'm talking about here and I'm

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excited to talk about those scenes.
But you know, we get to see

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a little bit more of the relationship
between Pie and what's her name, Hotel

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Betel, Thank you Bettel. Yeah, we get to see a little bit

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more of that, the back and
forth. You know, remember we found

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these two. He was cooking for
her in the first episode of season one,

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you know, and here he is
again cooking. Yeah. Yeah,

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it's interesting that going back to that
first episode of season one and she's one

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of the people that kind of gets
him back on the horse so to speak,

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and says, you got to get
back out there. I love the

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fact that we get more of that
relationship because I think their chemistry is great

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and it's interesting seeing this kind of
interaction between captains of different ships, right.

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Yeah. Absolutely. I appreciated the
fact that, you know, we

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got to see a connection to the
Cage, which was supposedly supposed to be

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the pilot of Star Trek with Pike. I felt like this was the weakest

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so far of this season. It
could have just been me. Don't get

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me wrong. There are some scenes
in this that I thought were really well

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done, and one of those crew
members got to shine in those episodes,

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and I mean in those scenes.
But overall, I felt this was the

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weakest because the scenes that we saw
on Rigel seven, there a lot of

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those I could really care care less
about. Is that was that just me?

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Now? I agree with you.
I think especially the parts about them

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losing their memory kind of dragged.
The middle part dragged a lot until um

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he started going back to the the
the castle. I just it was just,

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in my opinion, just way too
long. Yeah, I agree,

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Scott, what about you? But
I disagree. I'm gonna take the contrary

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to that. I think this one
didn't have as much dramatic depth as the

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other ones did, even the previous
episode that was a little bit more fun.

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There were still some fun elements of
this. I think that we eventually,

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but I really thought it was fascinating
looking into that relationship between Pike and

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Bettel, kind of book ending us
and you know, giving us a little

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bit more depth into that. I
think it's going to kind of raise the

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stakes with that relationship. But um, I thought they're they're handling of the

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forgetting and the amnesia. It seemed
to me, you know, I haven't

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done a research to see how much
truth there is to this, but a

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lot of it felt like they had
done a lot of research into things like

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Alzheimer's and dementia and actual memory loss. I thought the use of tenitis to

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kind of frame up the blackouts was
really smart, and I think they handled

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it in in a great way.
It was interesting to see how quickly the

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ship falls apart without a crucial component, which is the crew, and we

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get it into that great hallway scene
where they're all kind of just deliriously kind

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of wandering around cowering in corners.
Yeah, I thought it was really interesting.

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I think in particular the character of
Luke I, you do bring up

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a good topic about the memory loss
and those kind of things. Because one

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of the things I did bring from
this episode was, you know, that

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deep question that we're presented with in
this episode is you know, would you

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want to remember the pain and the
loss of someone. You know, we

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get one of those characters who you
know, basically he says, you know,

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I do I don't want to remember, and you know, they take

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him back into the castle and he
does and he, you know, he

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remembers losing his family. Basically,
you know, would you want that?

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I mean, what the consequences obviously
are You're going to forget the people that

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were in your life, but if
you lost those, it's all going to

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become flooding back to you when you
remember. I mean, I thought that

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was pretty deep in itself right there. That is pretty deep. But I

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think personally, I'd want to remember
as much as I wouldn't want to live

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through certain moments. Ever, again, you know, they do shape who

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we who we are, and I
like that Luke had that journey that we

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kind of went on with him.
I think things like the tattoos that were

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blacked out was really smart, and
him talking about you know, um emotions

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guiding where memories can't. I don't
know, I feel like we got a

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lot of depth into the character of
Luke Um, even though we didn't get

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that much with the other characters.
Although it feels like we did get a

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bit of a reveal, particularly with
Pike, you know, when you strip

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away all those things that kind of
define who he is, getting into that

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protective mode and kind of slipping into
a rage that I don't think we've ever

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seen from this character, which was
fascinating. Yeah, And I think that,

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you know, we get that the
beginning stuff with him and Betel,

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you know, we get that,
you know, he's basically realizes that he's

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causing some problems with with her because
it clearly she lost a promotion because of

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some of the stuff that happened.
You know in that episode where you know

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we were trying to Una basically was
on trial, you know, because you

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mentioned Admiral Passik again who was the
vulcan who was with her trying Una.

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So you know, I feel for
Pike too because he wants to back away,

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but he doesn't too, so he
obviously takes the easy way out and

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confronts him about that too, which
I thought that was pretty neat and it's

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great that they're exploring this side of
a captain. That's something that Star Trek's

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really never done is show an actual
relationship and the ups and downs of it

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with a starship captain. The only
person we've ever seen that was with Commander

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Cisco and he wasn't really a starship
captain, but we never saw it with

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Picard Kirk, Jane Way and I
hope that they continue with this and really

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explore because I'd love to see what
they do at the end, whether they

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get together, whether they break up. But still it's going to be a

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great journey for Pike, right,
I agree? So um any any favorite

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scenes in this Scott, I do
have to give credit to a minor character.

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I think King Zacharias is that what
it be called. I'm not sure

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I thought he was a He was
a fun minor character, um it was.

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It was fascinating to see him kind
of turn that quickly, um into

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kind of a medieval king almost.
But the way he was taunting Pike when

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he was losing a school, I
was like, you are poking a bear

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that you do not want to poke. You need to stop right now.

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Yeah. Um, But I think
the main thing that I found really entertaining,

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and we'll get into this, i'm
sure later, is ortegasm. The

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enthusiasm with getting ready for the mission
and when she loses her memory, that

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was gold, that was absolute gold. She was so proud to finally get

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to join an away team, and
you know, she comes down into getting

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ready to leave to only discover that
Spock is the one who causes her not

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to be able to go, you
know, and you know, you just

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see her just face drain of life
when she realizes she has to stay on

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board of the Enterprise because of the
asteroids field and stuff. And I love

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the fact though she was made fun
of for the hat, but as she's

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leaving, realizing she's on the Enterprise, she puts the hat right back on

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oh yeah, kind of defiantly.
She's like, well, I'm wearing the

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hat, damn it. You can't
stop me from doing that, that's right.

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Yeah. I thought that was such
a cool scene. And you know

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that she was my favorite, and
she was the one I was alluding to

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earlier. I loved everything in this
episode about her, loved her so much.

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Yeah. I keep going back to
that line, I'm Erica Ortegas,

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I fly the ship. I fly
the ship. Yeah yeah, even her

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her personal log I'm Lieutenant Eric Ortegas. Most of the time, I fly

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the ship, which is cool,
but can't get boring, yea, yea.

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And you know it, really that
really shows because she was getting bored

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with her position and she didn't realize
the importance that she had, and you

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know her going through losing her losing
her memory, you know her you know,

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being freaking out going from the bridge
down to her quarters and then talk

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walking basically to the computer, and
then realizing that she does fly the ship

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and she goes back to the bridge
and basically saves everybody. She finally realizes

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an end that how important her position
is, and you know she's good at

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it. Yep, yep, I
think it was an interesting kind of what

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I want to say, kind of
a an opposite of what Embenga was going

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through in this. So she is
saying, you know, I'm a pilot,

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that's my everyday thing, but I
kind of want to break out and

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I kind of want to be more, whereas Embenga was saying, I'm the

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doctor, but you're bringing me because
of my fighting skills. I mean,

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you probably want me as a field
medic, but you also want me as

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a soldier. And him not necessarily
appreciating that. I thought that was interesting.

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It was a cool twist because you're
right, Typically you'd bring the doctor

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because you need that medical but he's
a great fighter. But it's funny because

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it turns out they actually have to
use it him as a doctor. So

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right, yeah, so it worked
out in the end, right, yep,

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exactly What about you? What's the
favorite moments? Well, so this

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is this episode, out of all
the episodes, felt the most like an

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original series episode. To me.
It did your um, you know,

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we've we've seen things like this before. Um. One a piece of the

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action was one episode of Patterns of
Forest with the Nazis. Uh so this

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is this is old territory to me. Um, you know, where the

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prime directors violated and they have to
go back. The civilization has been UM

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contaminated. They have to go back
and try to set things right. UM.

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I enjoyed that, and I enjoyed
the little little extra hints and connections

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to the series UM which we've already
mentioned the biggest ones, but there were

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a few few little ones that I
think a lot of people may miss.

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Um. Uh. You know,
when we saw the delta symbol that they

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found from the long range photos,
UM, they they went through the effort

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of making sure that it was the
old UM delta side, the one that

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we saw during the first season of
Discovery, which would have been about the

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right time note that that mission had
taken place, rather than I kept the

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current one that they're using. Yeah. Yeah, And um a battel the

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little uh medallion that she gives Pike. She mentioned to come it comes from

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Galt and UM. I caught this
right away, but I'm not sure if

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very many people did. That's actually
the colony where Warf grew up with the

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Rajinkos. And also, and this
one, I actually had to go back

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a couple of times because this was
such a quick show. I mean we're

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talking like a half of a second. But the bottle of wine that Pike

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and Betel are sharing his Chateau Picard, Oh wow, that's nice. Great

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touches there. I love when the
show, as I mentioned the last episode,

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it connects to the whole of Star
Trek, and there wasn't too many

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in this I mean, well,
actually the whole episode was an entire action

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to where the past of Star Trek
can. I just love looking for these

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things, and I hope they continue
with it. They seem to be doing

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that more and more this season,
and I love it. Yes, yeah,

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And you've got such a sixty years
of continuity and the fact that they're

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just having fun with it. Why
not that's the way exactly exactly. Well,

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I think it's a great idea to
stitch all that stuff together because then

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you've got people that are kind of
like, maybe I want to come back

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and see this episode that has a
little bit of background. I mean,

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before seeing things like this series,
there wasn't much about original series that I

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was really dipping back into because I
had always followed in this generation except for

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watching Space Seed to catch up on
CON's background, right, you get more

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kind of hints at which episodes you
can dip into, Which can I get

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you hooked in the rest of the
series. The only original series thing that

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I caught and Wayne, those are
good catches. They're great catches. The

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old school tricorder. Yes, I
caught that too. Yep, Yeah,

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I thought that was awesome that I
saw Pop. I was saying, hey,

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look I recognized, right, I
know what that is. That was

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pretty cool. So for you guys, which character do you think shine the

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most clearly? You know mine?
Wayne, what was your who was your

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well? You know, this episode
confused me at first because I thought from

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from the trailer, from the clips
that we saw, this was going to

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be Ortega's episode. And I'm going
to be honest, I'm rather disappointed.

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I don't feel it was. Um
this was Pike's episode, and I'm glad

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to see that because, I mean, we haven't seen much of him this

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season, but he shined above all
of them. Really. His attack in

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the when he went back to the
castle and attacked as Zach showed how just

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how far he would go to protect
his crew. When when all the inhibitions

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were were were let out, all
his emotion was fantastic and and Anson Mount

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performed incredible and he's a great actor
anyways, but this really showed. He

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really showed his acting shops. But
I was disappointed because I was expecting this

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the trend to continue with focusing and
centering on characters, and I thought this

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would be Ortega's episode. But in
my opinion, we learned nothing new about

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her. We knew that. We
found out that she could fly the shop

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and that was it. And I
hope you know when we saw her at

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the beginning when she couldn't go on
the away mission and Pike turns around and

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says, uh, you know,
I can't remember exactly what he says,

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but if your next or I'll get
to your next. I hope they really

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do, because she deserves an episode
to really bring her character out, to

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show more, to show background,
and that's what we want to see.

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I want to see that with more
of the characters, and she did not

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get this episode. I think it
wasn't there a scene in the trailer for

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the season where she's flying a shuttle
in pithe with her and he's kind of

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like freaking out if she's flying it. Yes, there was. I thought

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that was be this episode. Yeah, I did too. Actually, so

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I guess that is coming soon.
So I guess he's going to keep his

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word, and um, you know, bring her on in away mission,

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Scott, what about you? Well, I haven't feel like I know what

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your answer is, and I feel
like I should choose somebody else to give

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it a bunch of a bit of
range. I think in terms of Ortegas,

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we get some great moments with her. I think when you've got a

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great point, we get we don't
get that much depth into her story,

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which is very interesting, and I
really hope we get more of that.

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I think she had a fantastic performance. I do think it's interesting that their

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proximity to the asteroids meant that they
had more memory loss than anybody and the

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fact that she was able to do
what she did with none of that memory

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intact I think speaks to her natural
talents as a pilot, her natural instincts

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as a pilot, and I think
that's fantastic. It's something she didn't even

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know that she could do. And
I'm sure that there were you know,

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something about the interface has to be
able to help with that, but the

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instincts of being able to you know, um, do what she did,

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specifically threading the needle. I thought
that was kind of a cool, cool

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scene. Um. If I was
going to choose somebody that's not Ortegus,

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because I'm going to give that to
you, Dave, it is, I'm

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going to go with Luke. Um. I think did a lot to um

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Uh, not only it was more
than just a memory loss episode, because

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I know that we've seen that a
lot in Star Trek in various ways.

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This is the first one where I
have seen somebody taking more of a you

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know, we understand this is a
long term condition, so here's how we

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live with it, Here's how we
think about it. Here the important things

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to go through, the fact that
they had this community that kind of helped

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each other do these things. Um. I think he gave a lot of

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depth to an aspect of the story
that could have been just a minor element.

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So I know that, you know, a lot of it is the

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way the character is written and the
scenes that are written. But I think

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that that actor did a great job
and performing that role. So I mean,

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obviously mine is Erica or tag Us. I agree Wayne with you.

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We didn't learn a lot about her
her background and those kinds of things.

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But to Scott's point as well,
she was very strong. We know she's

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a pilot, we know she can
fly the ship, but the mere fact

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that she can go through what she
went through to realize what she needs to

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following her emotions, following you know, her gut instincts basically, and able

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to fly that ship. I thought
it was a really good balance in this

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episode between two characters, and that
would be Pike, and that would be

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or take us. In my opinion, we're going back between the two of

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them, and I thought it was
a great balance. And of course we

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get the book ends with Pike.
So and you're right, I hope we

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get to seem more about her because
I like her character a lot. I

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like all these characters were trying out
out. Yes, yeah, so I

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find all of them very very interesting
and I cannot wait to dive into more.

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So, Yeah I will, I
will say, David, that's a

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00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.839
great point. We didn't learn more
about her, but I like her so

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much more. With her performance in
this it was just so entertaining, Like

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00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.000
it was her conversation with the computer
like Plota what now exactly? What was

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00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:18.960
so well done? It was?
It really was, and even when the

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00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.279
ship was repeating back to her who
she was, she kind of give that

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00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.839
look like, really, you're going
to keep that doing that? So congratulations

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00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.680
the actresses. She's a fantastic actress. I just want to see an episode

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given to her, sure a greatly
about her, Let her really show,

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let her really bring her character out
and show us what she and her character

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00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.680
can do. I agree. I
agree. So if you could be any

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00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:45.319
character in this episode, who would
you be? Wayne? Um? Well,

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actually I guess it'd be Zach.
I mean, he may have been

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left on his own, but you
know, for what five years, But

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I don't think it did too bad
for himself. You know, he took

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00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.400
his knowledge and his technology and became
high lord you know, the planets and

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00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.400
had his own alice and his own
guards, and uh, you know,

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the only thing he is is he's
still wearing it at stupid Starfleet uniform.

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I mean, after five years,
I would have changed his shirt. But

311
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.839
and then you know, of course, you know Pike had to come and

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00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:14.160
spoil it off for him. But
that's that's who I'd like to be.

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Nice Scott, what about you?
If I've got to go with Lieutenant or

314
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:23.279
Erica Artegas Um. I think just
her interactions, you know, when she

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00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:27.759
was having her forgetting UM were great. But the chance to sit down and

316
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.480
fly the enterprise UM without having a
lot of I mean, you know,

317
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.000
obviously if I had her instincts,
but I've never touched one of those consoles

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00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.039
me. If this is a chance
to sit down and do that, that

319
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.319
would be amazing. Absolutely I would
my lot of choice, would you,

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00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.519
I would go with ortegas Um,
But I'm gonna go with me Membinga.

321
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.720
I can't see his name. I'm
gonna go with Memba because you know,

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he's being used to not just be
a doctor, but be a where going

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on the away mission but ending up
still having to be that doctor completely being

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00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.960
relied on, and you get to
be on the way to admission, even

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00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.200
though you go through the amnesia part
of it all, which kind of stinks

326
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.880
because you know he did some freaking
out like everybody did. But that's who

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I would go with. I just
didn't want to repeat what you had to

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00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.559
say, Scott, But I really
I really liked his character too in this.

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I think he does a wonderful job
as well. I think he's a

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00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:25.359
reflection of the kind of depth that
we hopefully get with Ortegas, right,

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00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.599
more than just the ship's doctor,
but the death with his daughter, the

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00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.519
depth with his you know, fighting
abilities, and all the other kind of

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00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:38.799
stuff. Even it's the second time
we've seen him give that wiping under the

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00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:45.920
eye gesture to Laon. Yeah,
I'm sure that's going to come up later

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00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:51.880
another episode. But little things like
that are just fascinating. They don't have

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00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.480
to explain it all right away,
just to us eventually, I agree.

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What looks like our next episode five
is a charade or sharads however you want

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00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:07.839
to to pronounce. It looks like
it's a shuttle accident with Spock and Chapel

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00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:12.759
and apparently something happens to Spock.
It looks like it might be a fun

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00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:18.880
episode. But for me, I'm
excited because I get some more Chapel.

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00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.559
That's right, yep, Now I
gotta ask um. I had two different

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00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:27.119
experiences looking at the next episode,
because they're at the end of the ready

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00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.640
room. They showed a clip of
that about them being on the shuttle together.

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But then when I watched it on
TV, one of the commercials that

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00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:41.480
came up was a trailer for the
next episode, and yeah, it looks

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00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.319
like and I might be wrong about
this, but there might be like a

347
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:52.440
biology swap between Chapel and Spock.
There's something going on with with the vulcandine

348
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.440
or something. Yes, I don't
know what it is, but something is

349
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:57.960
up with that. Yep, you're
right. Yeah. Could you see him

350
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.319
with like rounded ears and you know
his hair is mussed up and he says

351
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:07.839
what he does a hand may exactly. So yeah, it looks like we'll

352
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.079
get a lot more into that relationship
and a lot more into um, you

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know, breaking spot down in another
way. Yep, that's right, all

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right. For all of our listeners
out there, what do you think is

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00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.799
going to happen next? We're gonna
open up a channel give us your thoughts,

356
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:22.920
predictions, and questions on social If
you want to leave a comment,

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00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.240
discuss what's next, or even half
suggestions, you can find us at www.

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00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.240
Dot film by podcast dot com.
Film by Podcast at gmail dot com,

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00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:36.440
a film by podcast on Facebook,
Twitter, and Instagram. I'm Lieutenant

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00:25:36.519 --> 00:26:00.160
Erica or take us and I fly
to the show. H