Aug. 26, 2024

Top 5 Courtroom Movies

Top 5 Courtroom Movies
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Pandora podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
Spreaker podcast player badge
JioSaavn podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconPandora podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconiHeartRadio podcast player iconCastbox podcast player iconDeezer podcast player iconTuneIn podcast player iconPodcast Addict podcast player iconPodchaser podcast player iconSpreaker podcast player iconJioSaavn podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 5A Film By...

On this special episode, Jeff heads to trial with James Buckley for a riveting conversation about the tension, legal maneuvering, and powerful storytelling found in our top 5 courtroom movies! Join us as we dissect these films and explore what makes them so compelling. Will your favorite make the list? 

For exclusive episodes and content, check out A Film By... Podcast on our Patreon with a FREE 7-day trial. You can also sign up as a free member! 

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on Instagram, X, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.640
Welcome to this special episode. We're going to take a

2
00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.400
break from our usual format and talk about our top

3
00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:34.399
five picks for courtroom movies. Hello, and welcome back to

4
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.240
a film by podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson and I am

5
00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:45.200
thrilled to introduce my guest today. He spends his days

6
00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:48.799
in a courtroom in the South, bringing the guilty to justice.

7
00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.600
He spends his nights rocking out as the drummer for

8
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:56.679
rock band Hidden Tracks. James Buckley, you are more or

9
00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:59.719
less you are a John Grisham character come to life.

10
00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.520
Yeah. Fortunately, Tom Cruise will never be playing me in

11
00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:05.439
any movie. For one thing, I'm too tall. I mean,

12
00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:07.680
come on that much.

13
00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.359
But still, James has appeared numerous times on the show

14
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.159
You Keep Me Serious podcast with our friends Jason and Dee,

15
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.159
going track by track on some incredible albums, and as

16
00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.359
one of our Patreon producers, he's been responsible for several

17
00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.079
great episodes we've done both on our Patreon as well

18
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.959
as our regular show. So, James, I definitely thank you

19
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.719
for that your suggestions. Every time I get the message

20
00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:33.920
from you, like hey, guys, how about this episode, how

21
00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.120
about this this director, how about this movie? We love it.

22
00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:38.519
We're happy to jump on it.

23
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.640
Well, I look forward every week to this. I mean

24
00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:45.280
all your episodes. I'm not exactly a tricky but I

25
00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:48.319
even enjoy those. I can tell David guys have a

26
00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:49.640
blast with those episodes.

27
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.840
So you're well listen, man. I was like a casual

28
00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:58.599
fan of Star Trek at Best and the guys at

29
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.120
Phaser Set to Stune. They've they're winning me over. So

30
00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.680
if you're if you're already listening to them, you know

31
00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.439
it might not be long before you start catching yourself

32
00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.479
watching certain episodes of television or certain movies, and you'll

33
00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:14.280
you'll be among us. James, when when we invited you on,

34
00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.879
we asked for your top five, but we didn't specify.

35
00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:23.080
My question is your top five? Is this? Is this

36
00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:25.639
what you consider to be the best courtroom movies? Or

37
00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:28.439
are you sharing your favorites or is it a combination

38
00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:28.919
of the two.

39
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.080
It's a combination. It was tough when you first told

40
00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:35.319
me the category. I was having a hard time designed

41
00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:37.599
to do I want courtroom movies? Do I want movies

42
00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:41.360
featuring lawyers as characters? So what ultimately decided to do

43
00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.520
was I was going over the list in my head.

44
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.879
I found the movies that I thought showed at least

45
00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.039
a slight trace of the realistic side of the legal profession,

46
00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.120
something that I can actually resonated with me a little,

47
00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.199
maybe something i'd experienced or someone on you had. And

48
00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.120
I think we've come up with a pretty fun list here.

49
00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.280
I gotta asked, how long have you been practicing law?

50
00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:07.360
Let's see and practicing because obviously we never get it right.

51
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:12.080
I was a member of the LSU PolyAm Abert School

52
00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.319
of Law class of two thousand and five. I spent

53
00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:17.840
a year as a quirk in East and West Flisian

54
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:21.759
appearancers in South Louisiana. East Fortiana is where they had

55
00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.240
just shot the Dukes of Hazard remake before I came

56
00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:28.199
along in downtown Clinton, I think. And while I was

57
00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.719
in West Flishianna as a court for a judge there,

58
00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:36.719
they were shooting that Hillary Swant masterpiece, The Reaping. Yeah,

59
00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.479
it was fun to walk my dogs at night and

60
00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:41.199
see them shooting the film, seeing how the sausage was made,

61
00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:45.800
so to speak. Then I spent about nine years working

62
00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.800
in a couple of civil firms in North Louisiana. Realized

63
00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.599
that that was just not me and for the past gosh,

64
00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:55.240
close to a decade now. It's been nothing but criminal law.

65
00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:59.319
I spent about six years as a criminal defense lawyer

66
00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:03.400
and a public defense in the past gosh, almost four

67
00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:07.479
years now, I've been an assistant district attorney and what

68
00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.280
we call the third Judicial District of North Louisiana, which

69
00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.439
includes two parishes, our parishes county, same thing as you

70
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.560
guys have. So yeah, about eighteen years. Man, I can't

71
00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:18.839
believe it. Time flies when you're in a perpetual state

72
00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:19.319
of panic.

73
00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:22.959
Eighteen years. It sounds like you've been on both sides

74
00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.600
of the courthouse. I have to imagine you have seen

75
00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.600
some wild stuff. And I don't want to put you

76
00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.360
on the spot, but anything come to mind where you're like, man,

77
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.720
this was the craziest day in court. I've ever ever

78
00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:38.160
had something like that come to mind.

79
00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.680
We had a guy on video being arraigned. He was

80
00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:43.920
at a local rehab facility, had got into a fight

81
00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.959
with another resident. It was minor misdemeanor charges, but we

82
00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.519
had him on video for arraignment where you basically plead

83
00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.639
guilty or not guilty. The first guy came up, the

84
00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:56.360
judge said, you were charged with disturbing the peace by fighting,

85
00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:59.399
and the guy says, without missing a beat, I'm guilty,

86
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.160
you're honor. I slapped that guy like Will Smith slapped

87
00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.319
Chris Rock. I've never seen a judge fight so hard,

88
00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:07.360
straight face.

89
00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:11.079
Oh wow, that's fantastic.

90
00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.240
No, there are some other more that I can't go

91
00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:19.879
into for either parental ratings reasons or confidentiality reasons. But yeah,

92
00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.839
you see sometimes it's pretty mundane stuff, but every now

93
00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:25.600
and then you'll see some wild and crazy stuff. As

94
00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:27.800
Steve Martin would have said, well.

95
00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.240
I'll tell you what before this trap begins. I have

96
00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.240
a couple more questions for you. Stuff you can you

97
00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:37.160
hopefully you can share. James, I want to know when

98
00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:38.839
you when you look at these type of these types

99
00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.480
of films, what do you what would you say is

100
00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.439
the best performance from an actor or actress in the courthouse.

101
00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.639
This I'm gonna go one that's not on my list.

102
00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:55.560
It was very close. I think the movie Philadelphia Denzel Washington. Yeah,

103
00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.879
Joe Miller, I think was his character. Denzel is a

104
00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.399
national treasure anyone. I don't think he's ever been anything

105
00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:03.560
I didn't like. Yep. And if we ever were to

106
00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.000
discuss our best our favorite war movies. You and I

107
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.639
can talk about Devil in a Blue Dress. But anyway,

108
00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.639
I thought his performance and that was really good. He

109
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.519
starts off as kind of a sleazy personal injury lawyer.

110
00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.360
He doesn't really have any interest in representing Tom Hanks's character.

111
00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:19.079
But by the end of the movie, he's come around

112
00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.040
a lot and he's developed a real sense of empathy

113
00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:24.279
and just and his performance is felt real.

114
00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.759
He is fantastic in that. I'll tell you you know,

115
00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:30.759
because I've been on a Costner kick lately, ever since

116
00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.040
Horizon came out. If I'm gonna make a choice for

117
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.040
best performance, I think I might go Kevin Costner and

118
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.839
JFK because that movie is all over the all over

119
00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.439
the map. But when we when we dial it down

120
00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:49.079
to the trial, I just he's amazing. His monologue at

121
00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.879
the end of that is is incredible. So I'm gonna

122
00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.040
I'm gonna go Costner. But listen, you can't go wrong

123
00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:59.199
with Denzel either. You know, both masters at their craft.

124
00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:04.240
Now on the flip side, let's talk about UH, talk

125
00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:06.000
about film. Let's talk about a film that you would

126
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:06.759
hold in contempt.

127
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.480
Uh.

128
00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.040
Let's talk about the worst courthouse film that you've seen.

129
00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.759
This isn't necessarily the worst courthouse film, but had one

130
00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.600
of the worst courthouse segments while you're just cringed and

131
00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:24.240
there's a constaner connection. Oh okay in The Untouchables, Yeah,

132
00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.839
fantastic movie. I love that movie. It's such a great film.

133
00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.839
But at the end, when they realize that the jury

134
00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.680
that they're trying to fix has not been fixed. Mhm,

135
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.319
the poem's lawyer just without even consulting his client, just

136
00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.759
stands up, shut we're changing our plague. Guilty. Guilty. That

137
00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:45.240
violates so many ethical guidelines. There's no way that could

138
00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.279
have happened. The guy deserved to be punched by Capone

139
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:49.279
like he was in the film.

140
00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.079
As I say, Capone, uh, you know de Niro just

141
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.600
he jumps up and say, what you know? Gives in

142
00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.839
the business? I remember watching obviously, you know, I know

143
00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:00.000
they took a lot of liberties with the with that story,

144
00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:02.759
but even at a young age, just like, wait, can

145
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.360
can the lawyer make that call? Because it doesn't seem

146
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:06.800
like you can.

147
00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:10.279
And that actor was I think williams zarn or Zon

148
00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:12.480
or something, and he's in one of my all time

149
00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:16.000
favorite movies, La Confidential. But I'll tell you whoever wrote

150
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.040
this part this kind was making up the law on

151
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:18.360
the fly.

152
00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:23.920
One last question and then we'll get going. How about

153
00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:28.439
one courthouse film that we'll say is inadmissible today, And

154
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.039
by that I mean a movie that you love but

155
00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:33.879
knew it wasn't gonna win the case for you today,

156
00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:35.600
Like something you had to leave off your list.

157
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:38.559
What do you got by way of introduction, I'm a

158
00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:40.759
North Louisiana redneck, so I'm kind of a meat and

159
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.600
potatoes guy when he comes to movies. Yeah, I'm going

160
00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.799
to be giving you some French expressionist classic for nineteen twenty.

161
00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:52.360
No for this, it's the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carrey. Okay, Yeah,

162
00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.840
it touches on some serious parts about how the stress

163
00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.320
of the job can affect your family life. But honestly,

164
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.360
there's not a single lawyer on either on the defense

165
00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.080
side or the prosecution side who has it weren't to

166
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.600
look at a client one time and said stop breaking

167
00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.440
the law. Ahle. I mean, that's I think universally accepted.

168
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:13.919
If there was one I wanted to have on my list,

169
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.080
but I just I left it off. I'm gonna go

170
00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:21.080
with the verdict Paul Newman film, and that's one. You know, Actually,

171
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.720
I have you to think for seeing that because it's

172
00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:26.799
something it's a film I've never seen before. It's always

173
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:28.480
on my list. It's like, I'll get around to it someday.

174
00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:30.559
Everyone has always talked about how amazing he was in it.

175
00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:33.240
And then we start talking about this episode, you know,

176
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.720
let's do our top five courtrom movies. And I was like, well, wait,

177
00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.440
there's a bunch that I haven't seen. So I saw it,

178
00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:41.440
I loved it. Have you to think for that, James?

179
00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:45.559
But without further ado, let's talk about what is going

180
00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.360
to make the list. And I imagine there's gonna be

181
00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.480
a little over overlap here today, so we'll go. We'll

182
00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:55.440
go five to two, we'll stop for honorable mentions, and

183
00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:58.200
then we'll share our number one picks. Are you ready,

184
00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.919
counselor ready ready, your honor? All right, well tell me

185
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:04.320
what are you going to enter into evidence? As Exhibit

186
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:05.159
five A.

187
00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.200
Your honor? At this time, I would ask that the

188
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:11.320
following the offered filed introduced into evidence. That is the

189
00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.960
nineteen ninety film Presumed Innocent with Harrison Ford.

190
00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.919
Harrison Ford is a brilliant prosecuting attorney.

191
00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.720
It's gonna be so seduced.

192
00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:22.200
By a beautiful woman.

193
00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.399
Carolyn Palamis was murdered last night, suspected of her murder.

194
00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.159
Your prints all over the bar glass five feet from

195
00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:30.519
where the woman was found dead.

196
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:34.279
She's dead and you're still obsessing from the best selling

197
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:37.480
novel You Killed It? Harrison Ford, How can you think

198
00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:38.759
that I could do anything like that?

199
00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:41.879
Resumed in situation where we're not sure do we like

200
00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:43.639
Harrison Ford? Do we not like him?

201
00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.320
Well? On all things pop culture, I'm a nineties god,

202
00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:51.360
whether it's TV, music or movies. In the nineties was

203
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.399
kind of the decade of the surprise twist ending and

204
00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:59.440
boy did this have one all the twists and Harrison

205
00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.360
Ford's here also inspired pretty much how my hair looked

206
00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:06.279
all through the nineties. That was more by genetics than

207
00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:10.519
actual choice. Yeah, I really enjoyed this film. The American

208
00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.279
Bar Association has a list of its top twenty five

209
00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:17.000
films they think represent the legal career and legal industry,

210
00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.519
legal field, professional, whatever you want to call it, and

211
00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:22.960
this was actually ranked number eleven. It was based on

212
00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.559
a novel by Scott Turou from like the late eighties,

213
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.840
It's been a couple of years in developmental hell before

214
00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:31.679
it landed with Warner Brothers. And I just really enjoyed

215
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.240
this film. I really enjoyed also discovering that was produced

216
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.799
by Alan J. Pacula, whose name will come up later

217
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.480
most likely who was a producer or director for The

218
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:42.519
Kill a Mockingbird.

219
00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:46.639
Yeah, I could see that that one maybe making an

220
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:51.559
appearance on these lists. Presumed us. It's a fantastic film,

221
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:53.559
and if I'm not mistaken, we have this film to

222
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.840
think for the new Jake Jonhall series. Presumed us, right,

223
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.200
and it like a reboo of the of the film.

224
00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:03.519
You know. I saw the ads for that and I

225
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.159
was wondering. I mean, with that title and being a

226
00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:08.360
legal drama, pretty much has to be I really need

227
00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:09.080
to see that now.

228
00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:11.159
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it on the list

229
00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.759
because I've heard nothing but rave reviews about it. So

230
00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:19.120
we'll have to check that one out. Meanwhile, Exhibit five

231
00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:24.600
B my first choice from nineteen ninety seven, directed by

232
00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.000
Francis Ford Coppola. We got to have a John Grisham

233
00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:30.240
movie on here, and I'm going with The rain Maker.

234
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.720
I'm asking you the jury, just.

235
00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.360
Do what you think is right in your heart. If

236
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:53.320
you don't punish great benefit, you could be their next victim.

237
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.080
Yeah. Matt Damon plays an underdog lawyer taken on a

238
00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.200
fraudulent insurance company as his first case. James, I absolutely

239
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:06.679
love this cast everywhere. I can't imagine anyone else in

240
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.559
any of the roles. How about how about you.

241
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:11.120
It's been a while since I've seen it, but yeah,

242
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.759
I remember I was Matt Damon. I don't think he

243
00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.120
gets near enough credit for his pure acting ability. The guys.

244
00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.720
It's such an excellent actor. I remember seeing what the

245
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.399
talented mister Ripley and thinking, my god, this guy's more

246
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.240
than just Ben Affleck's best buddy, extremely stilled actor, and

247
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.840
I thought he did a really good job here as

248
00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.360
a overstressed, underappreciated a lawyer in a pretty tight situation.

249
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.559
Damon's fantastic in this. I love the I love the

250
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.159
irony here too, because, as you and I know, he

251
00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:45.279
lost the lead role in Primal Fear to Edward Norton

252
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.639
in nineteen ninety six, and a year later, Norton loses

253
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.679
the lead role in The rain Maker to Matt Damon.

254
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.960
Poetic justice, I guess but I'll tell you who else

255
00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.600
loves this one, John Grisham. I found I was looking

256
00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.039
at I was looking up Grisham stuff. In a two

257
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.159
thousand and four interview with Entertainment Weekly, Grisham praised the film, saying,

258
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:10.919
quote to me, it's the best adaptation of any of

259
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:13.639
my books. I love the movie. It's so well done.

260
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:17.679
I tend to agree with him. This might be one

261
00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.240
of one of the better Grisham movies, one of the

262
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.080
better adaptations in my opinion.

263
00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.480
It's great. I'm a big fan of A Time to

264
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.559
Kill But I think the question that rain Maker is

265
00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.600
also a fabulous film. I'm not the biggest Grisham fam

266
00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:34.879
I'll go ahead and submit that Devin to try now, okay,

267
00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.559
but there have been some really great films made from

268
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:38.360
his books.

269
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.360
I got a question for you, you know, and forgive me,

270
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.600
but I think I think throughout this episode, we're gonna,

271
00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:47.039
we're gonna, we're gonna lean a little on your legal expertise.

272
00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:54.080
Damon is playing Rudy Baylor. He has just passed the bar,

273
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.519
but he doesn't have his license yet, and we get

274
00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.519
this opening scene like when he's gonna try to try

275
00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:04.799
the case Mickey Rourke's the boss right brewisers Stone he

276
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.519
leaves town because he's got an arrest warrant, and then

277
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.279
Dean stockwell, our judge is like, you know, blows up.

278
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.159
I mean, get out of here until you get a license.

279
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.159
And then they do this crazy thing where John Vood's like, hey,

280
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.279
I'll stand for him. You can swear in right now.

281
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.679
Is this I mean, is that a possibility or is

282
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.799
that just movie? That movie's taking the liberties with it again.

283
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.360
No, I think that in some states that is a

284
00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:31.279
definite possibility. Some states require you to be a fully

285
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.360
licensed attorney before you can go before the bar, but

286
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.960
there are other states which incorporate kind of a I

287
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.519
guess a mentor model or something. If you've taken the bar,

288
00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.799
you're waiting for results and someone else is willing to

289
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.480
stand for it. I don't think that's a problem in

290
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.159
some states. Okay, of course, reminds me when I took

291
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.480
the bar. It was in late summer of two thousand

292
00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.399
and five. We take it. We're supposed to have six

293
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.879
weeks for the results. I'm nervous. The six weeks approaches,

294
00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:03.080
and a little thing called Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans well,

295
00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:04.639
a lot of the people doing well, A lot of

296
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.480
the people's doing our grades and evaluating our exams were

297
00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.120
down there, so a lot of grades were lost, which

298
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.559
made another month or so before we found out we passed.

299
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.840
That was the most effective weight loss program I've ever

300
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:15.240
been on.

301
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.799
Yeah, this one's a fantastic one. Danny de Vito playing

302
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.360
Dex Schifflet again. Here's a guy who's he's almost like

303
00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:30.360
a vincent Gambini. He's he's been practicing for years and

304
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.519
years he's but he's still studying for the bar. Has

305
00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:33.639
it taken the bar? And he's like, I don't know

306
00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:36.919
if I over will He's fantastic in this one. Claire

307
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.600
Danes seventeen years old, James. You know, and I know

308
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.440
she's playing like a mid twenties, but you know she's

309
00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.000
she's hot off of a ninety six Romeo and Juliet.

310
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:51.480
I think she's doing an amazing job here too.

311
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.320
Yeah, that's gosh. I remember seeing that one of the

312
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.840
theaters in my previous career. Now, I really, I really

313
00:16:57.919 --> 00:16:59.200
have fond memories of that one.

314
00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.240
James. Let's talk about what you'd like to enter into

315
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.839
evidence Exhibit four A. You're a fourth pick.

316
00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:12.759
Sar Okay, if the Honorable Judge Johnson will allow at

317
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.799
this time, we will offer file submitted to evidence is

318
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.119
our fourth selection, the nineteen ninety two classic A Few

319
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:20.000
Good Men's.

320
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.799
Marine Corps Ps. In exchange for my transfer off the base,

321
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:25.359
I wanted to provide.

322
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.160
You to mention about legal fence line shooting that occurred

323
00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:32.640
the night of August the Second. Who the fuck is

324
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.160
PFC William T. Santiago?

325
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.400
I'm private Santiago is a member of Second with Tom Bravoser.

326
00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:39.680
Yeah.

327
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.079
Well, apparently he's not very happy down here at Shanger

328
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.319
Law because he's written letters to everybody but Santa Claus

329
00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.000
asking for a transfer, and now he's telling tales about

330
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.759
a fence line shooting. Matthew, what polls her?

331
00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:00.680
You're appalled. Now, let me preface this of what happens

332
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:05.079
in this movie is unrealistic. Yeah, I can't see it

333
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.680
really happening in the courtroom, but there are some aspects

334
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:10.119
of it that a lot of lawyers could relate to.

335
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.079
And you've got that Aaron Sorkin dialogue, But you know

336
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.720
it's real snappy, crisp, and I think this is one

337
00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.519
of Jack Nicholson's best performances. I've never seen someone who's

338
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.759
contempt quite as well as he does when he's on

339
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.240
the witness stand. And I was equally fascinated while researching

340
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.680
this movie to discover it was based on a real

341
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:30.279
story that blew me away.

342
00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.559
Wait, well, so it's based on a real code read.

343
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.599
Sorkin's sister was in a law student and she was

344
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:43.079
a sign to represent some marines down in Guantanama. You

345
00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:45.000
had a marine who had written a letter to a

346
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:48.559
Texas senator I think his name was Alvarado, saying that

347
00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.640
conditions weren't safe or weren't very good on Guantanamo at

348
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.359
the base, and that there had been some illegal activity,

349
00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.720
including shooting over the line into Cuba, which you know

350
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.839
they mentioned in the movie MH. They reported to his

351
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.720
commanding officer, and he had no intention of sending the

352
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.440
guy to another base. Well, a group of men they

353
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.400
called the ten, decided to administer a code read. Thankfully,

354
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.599
there was a much happier ending. They take the guy up,

355
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.960
wrapped his face up, and we're about to take him

356
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.000
out when he started bleeding to the nose and all.

357
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.559
So they stopped right then called help. They were all

358
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.359
faced various charges. Seven of them pled out to lesser

359
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.599
charges so they wouldn't be court martial, but three of

360
00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:38.079
them went to trial. They fought it, and they were

361
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.000
actually convicted of lesser offenses. They were allowed to remain marines,

362
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.720
and they were honorably discharged. This would have been in

363
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.359
the late eighties, and it came down to it eventually,

364
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.160
when the movie came out, five of those guys, five

365
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.279
of the ones who were you know, sentenced to lesser

366
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.319
offenses at plea bar agains, they filed a ten million

367
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.160
dollar lawsuit against Rob Ryner production company. What was that

368
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:01.880
Castle Rock?

369
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:02.880
Wow?

370
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.599
And yeah, And I don't know whatever came of it.

371
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.640
I dug around a while trying to figure out their

372
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.519
suit ever witneywhere? And they said it misrepresented their stories

373
00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.440
and their lives. But what's interesting is there was a

374
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.160
guy named David Cox who was one of the three.

375
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.240
He went to trial. He didn't join in the lawsuit,

376
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.000
he said he didn't want to. But in early nineteen

377
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:30.079
ninety four, Cox disappeared. Some guy was canoeing up in

378
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.000
Massachusetts and he saw a foot underneath some brush along

379
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.920
the river. It was Cox's body. He'd been shot three

380
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.759
times in the side once in the head. It was

381
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.559
still wearing was dressed up in like one of his

382
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.680
marine sniper jackets. So that's still a cold case up

383
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.000
in Massachusetts. When I was reading this, I was thinking,

384
00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:49.960
that's sad, and I was also thinking, boy, we have

385
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:51.599
a chance for a few more good men.

386
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.119
Make a sequel to the sequel, a few more good men. Yeah,

387
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.039
I'm with you for that one. This happens to be

388
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.119
my fourth pick as well, so I'll jump in here

389
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.680
with you. You mentioned court martials, I got I got

390
00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.359
something fun here for you, James. While doing location scouts

391
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:13.599
for the film, Reiner discovered two things. So first, actual

392
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.599
military courtrooms are just playing offices, which means films showing

393
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.400
military court martial scenes like Crimson Tide, Top Gun and

394
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.200
Iron Eagle, they got it. They get it right, but

395
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.559
because Reyner wanted a more cinematic look, they used an

396
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:31.519
empty courthouse. The second discovery he made was Wolfgang Bodison.

397
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.359
And if that name doesn't doesn't, well you're not so

398
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.079
you know who Wolfgang Bodison is. Initially, he was working

399
00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.440
as a location scout until Reiner notices him and thinks, man,

400
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.000
that guy looks like a Marine and then he chooses

401
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.559
the cast him as Lance Corporal Harold Dawson. How about

402
00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:48.680
that just doing your job and then all of a

403
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:50.960
sudden you become a become an actor. I think that's

404
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:51.880
fantastic for that guy.

405
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:54.839
Well, he stood out so much in that film. I mean,

406
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.480
you've got a great cast. You've got Tom Cruise, You've

407
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.079
got Kevin Pollock, you've got Jimmy Moore.

408
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.519
Yeah, so this is this is nineteen ninety two. Demmy,

409
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.079
her asking price is three million dollars. She undercuts herself

410
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.000
by a million because she's got a couple other people

411
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.720
breathing down her neck. I think it was Michelle Pfeiffer

412
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:20.880
for one. Like they're talking to Michelle Pfeiffer and she's like, hey,

413
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.079
you know what I need? I need this job, taking

414
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.359
this job. She know, she just she's just coming off

415
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.799
of I think Mortal Thoughts, that thriller with Bruce Willis,

416
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.519
you know, the Butcher's Wife with Jeff you know, I

417
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.559
think it was Jeff Daniels in that one. She's not

418
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.559
she doesn't have a good track record at this point,

419
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.559
so to me, takes a slash on her own. You know,

420
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:39.839
does does does her own thing.

421
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:40.039
You know.

422
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.240
It says, hey, i'll take a I'll undercut myself and

423
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.440
and I'm glad because I could imagin anyone else playing

424
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:46.039
Joe Gallaway.

425
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:50.000
Truthfully, no, I thought she was great. You know Cruz

426
00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:52.640
I left Tom Cruise. I'm gonna go ahead and tell

427
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.559
you now, I'm a joke about his height in the movies,

428
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.799
But that's another story altogether. I loved him in this one.

429
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.400
He starts off he's just young guy who's more interested

430
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.119
in doing plea bargains than actually going to court. Yeah,

431
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.839
and actually by the end of the movie you can

432
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.960
tell he's developed into a whole different person. His approaches chain,

433
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.200
But his character was somebody I related to almost from

434
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.440
the start. When the guy is when he's playing softball

435
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.319
at the beginning, in between swings, he's negotiating a plea

436
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:24.039
deal with another officer and a lot of public defenders.

437
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.319
That's the name of the game. A lot of times

438
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:28.079
you already have a good idea in your mind how

439
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.960
the case is going to end, even before you've seen

440
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.279
the facts and talk to your client. And I think

441
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:35.559
Crews got sucked into that trap. And once he was

442
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:38.279
already talking twelve years before he met Dawson and his

443
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.640
co defendant, and once you realize there was a lot

444
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.319
more to this story, I mean, his whole perspective change.

445
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:45.559
I really enjoyed watching that.

446
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.240
Would it surprise you to know that Tom Cruise was

447
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:51.000
not the first Tom to play the role of Lieutenant

448
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:56.559
Daniel caffe It would so you you know, we know

449
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.559
this is this by own Sorkin. When Sorkin's play was

450
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:04.319
on broad Way, the role was played by Amedeas himself,

451
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.240
Tom Holts. Think about that for a second.

452
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.079
I just can't picture that, I guess because I never

453
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.319
saw the play, and Tom, I thought Cruise did such

454
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.079
a good job in this film, was to picture somebody else.

455
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:17.839
We'll have to check with Jason Colvin and seeing the

456
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.200
Calvin alternate cinematic universe, how he would cast this film.

457
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.119
See if Jason Colvin would would cast Tom Hols. I

458
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:27.400
don't think he will, but if he was going to

459
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.079
recast a few good men, I would be curious to

460
00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.480
see who's played Daniel Caffey. We might find out. You know,

461
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.680
we get the Colvin cuts, we get the Colvin Castle

462
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.160
a lot lately. So in the meantime, let's let's move on.

463
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:41.720
James Exhibit three A.

464
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.440
Exhibit three A. It's one of my all time favorite

465
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:48.440
movies and I originally wanted to place it in the

466
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.559
number one or number two spot, but after looking at

467
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.799
my criteria, it went down to number three. It's the

468
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.720
Lincoln Lawyer from twenty eleven.

469
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.200
Not a word you get my kid out and Champ Heller,

470
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.880
you are one messed up son of a bitch.

471
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:09.279
First you get your client off for assault only to

472
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:10.640
burn him for murder.

473
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:13.440
You don't have enough to charge him with the ntry

474
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.720
and murder to ya, and.

475
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.480
They've got enough to screw with him. There's no way

476
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:20.839
that DA was letting Roulet walk out of here and

477
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.759
that after what just happened. I don't get you, Heller.

478
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:26.880
Whose side are you on?

479
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:27.400
Anyway?

480
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.079
I love this movie. There are some parts of it

481
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.160
which you know Conley before he became a writer of

482
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.240
the Bosh books and everything else, and he spent a

483
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.440
lot of time as a court reporter in in California

484
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:43.200
and Florida back during all the cocaine wars of the eighties,

485
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:45.440
so you can tell that he has a pretty good

486
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.720
idea how the system works, and that translates well from

487
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:50.519
the pages to the screen, because a lot of the

488
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:54.519
things McConaughey does in this movie just felt right like

489
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:56.880
someone who actually knew how the system worked had watched

490
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.240
it and incorporated into his character. The little thing like

491
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.680
when he shows up at his first courtroom scene when

492
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.640
he asks the bailiff to maybe bump his client up

493
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.400
a little quicker in the rotation, and when he talks

494
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.519
about mister Green. You know, attorney's around here don't necessarily

495
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.640
refer to as mister Green, but if they're still negotiating

496
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.160
a client, they'll say, your honor, the client is still

497
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.519
trying to retain me, or something like that. But it's

498
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.079
the same thing. You're still waiting to get paid go

499
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.319
on the line for this person, all the conflicts that

500
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.920
came up with representing a guy who he knew well,

501
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:30.920
hope I'm not giving away the spoilers, but who needs

502
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.759
his spat with some marble things. I just really love

503
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.759
this movie. It starts off kind of gives you the

504
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.759
feel almost of a seventies film with a soundtrack and

505
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.680
a lot of the close up shots. I thought McConaughey

506
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.839
did a great job. Several things that stick out, like

507
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:51.839
when the first time when trace Atkins motorcycle gang pulls

508
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:53.680
them over on the side of the interstate to discuss

509
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.559
one of their clients. Yeah, Trace may be family. By

510
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:01.839
the way, my wife's make Dame is Atkins and her father,

511
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.839
who was an incredible attorney rest his Saul, just a

512
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.039
great man, a huge influence on me as well. He

513
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.680
was from that part of North Louisiana where Trey Satkins

514
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:12.799
is from, and he always joked that Trace was probably

515
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:16.759
his cousin. But anyway, I digress. When Trace says, this

516
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:20.400
guy's our best farmer, and Matthew McConney says, I don't know,

517
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.400
and I don't want to know. That's how a lot

518
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.960
of defense guys are. You don't necessarily want to know everything.

519
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.599
You just want to know what facts the state can

520
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.400
prove and how we can get around him when he

521
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.720
shows up for arrangements. That was right. That felt right,

522
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.920
because you know, arrangement's just guilty or not guilty. You

523
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.480
don't have time to go into the facts or the

524
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:41.000
whole story. The bond hearing for his clients, I mean

525
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.720
a lot of states do that, but it's a domestic

526
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:45.880
abuse case particularly, they'll have a hearing before they set

527
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:47.640
bond and a lot of times they'll give him ankle

528
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.680
monitors or request substance abuse, eve auation and treatment prior

529
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.799
to coming back to court. Things like that. I just

530
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.960
loved it. You could tell Michael Conley it's been a

531
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.319
lot of time in this courtroom and I say, oh, man,

532
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.559
I thought McConaughey really slipped it into this role. Well,

533
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:08.039
he was smooth, but he was not greasier. You know,

534
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.559
you didn't see anything shady about his character. It's just

535
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:13.200
a real smooth lawyer. And there are a couple of

536
00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:15.599
sinister terms like when he comes home and finds his

537
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.319
client waiting in his house and his client plays the

538
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.599
confidentiality card, and that's accurate. If a lawyer finds out

539
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.319
his client is guilty, I mean, there's very limited circumstances

540
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:26.839
where he can report that to police.

541
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.640
So there's no loopholes with that.

542
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.480
There are two loopholes, like if you find out if

543
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.000
your client is trying to use your legal services in

544
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.079
an effort to carry out in another crime, then yeah,

545
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.119
you can report that in most cases. Also, if you

546
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:44.559
know that your client is about to do something, you

547
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.920
have a reasonable suspicion that's going to result in somebody

548
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.960
else getting hurt, then you can report that. But yeah,

549
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.440
a lot of times it's pretty fairly ironclad.

550
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:57.440
I just see that blows my mind because we grew

551
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:00.640
up on these television shows, in these movies that have

552
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.440
you know, always put the whole thing out there, you know, uh,

553
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.960
attorney client privilege. And I've always thought like, well, what

554
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.440
you know, if if a guy confesses to be in

555
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.480
the Zodiac Killer, you're telling me there's no way for

556
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:18.160
his his attorney to to share that like it, I

557
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:20.839
don't you know, it blows mind. You're saying that that's

558
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.519
that's that's accurate, that's the real deal.

559
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.319
Ye can't believe it, man, or She'll notice at the end,

560
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.799
after McConaughey has gone through the whole trial experience with

561
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:34.240
his client, he quits, he's fired, he's discharged, and things

562
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.279
take another interesting turn at that time when it wasn't

563
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.480
Michael Perrey shows up. That was that was, by the way,

564
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:42.880
that was one of the elements of this movie that

565
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:48.119
bothered me. Michael Perray was so antagonistic toward Mickey Harror. Yeah,

566
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:50.200
when I was on the defense side and now on

567
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:52.799
the other side, we deal with law enforcement. So much.

568
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.480
It's like a job. They don't take it personally. They

569
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.039
very rarely take it personally. We don't take it personally,

570
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.359
and usually outside of the courtroom we have pretty good relationship.

571
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:03.799
But other than that, I thought that maybe was great.

572
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:06.319
I gotta be honest with you. You and I have

573
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.559
been We've been circling this episode for quite a while,

574
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:13.440
you know, and in that time we've disclosed quite a

575
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:16.240
bit of information. We've talked. We've talked about a lot

576
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:19.839
of these movies, and in the past you had brought

577
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.799
up Lincoln Lawyer quite a bit. So I'm surprised that

578
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.839
it only ranks as high as three. But I'm also

579
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:31.079
glad because, uh, I'm going to offer into evidence Exhibit

580
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:35.200
three B. My choice happens to be the other Matthew

581
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:39.440
McConaughey lawyer film you already mentioned it, James nineteen ninety six,

582
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.960
A Time to Kill, directed by Joel Schumacher.

583
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.200
An innocent child now when't had to protect an outraged father.

584
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.279
He's taking justice out of your hands. Two lawyers fighting

585
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:53.279
for justice.

586
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.960
From the author of the firm and the client comes

587
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:01.400
a time Audiences will always remember a riveting thriller.

588
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.079
The best Grisham yet to go.

589
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.359
It now an artist for nothing, Sandra Bullock, Samuel L. Jackson,

590
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.559
Matthew McConaughey, Kevin Stacy, Fuck time to kill.

591
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:12.680
We got McConaughey. He's a free spirited lawyer in Mississippi

592
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:17.039
defending Samuel Jackson's vengeful father character accused of killing two

593
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.160
white men who raped his ten year old daughter.

594
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.440
I'll join in that stipulation. It's an amazing movie.

595
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:27.599
It's it's it's it's incredible. Don't be surprised if that

596
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:30.119
doesn't show up on our limited nineteen ninety six series

597
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:36.480
one way or another. But McConaughey's he's electrifying, he's he's so,

598
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.440
he's just so engaging, like you want to believe in him,

599
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:42.880
you want to you want to hang out with him,

600
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:44.480
you want to have you want to have crawfish and

601
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:47.839
beer with him at that place. He's he's having a

602
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.119
lot of fun here. And it blows my mind that

603
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.119
he almost doesn't get the role because this is nineteen

604
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.720
ninety six. McConaughey hadn't done a whole lot, and it's

605
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.960
only after Schumacher offers the lead role to Val Kilmer.

606
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:02.960
While they were working on Batman Forever in nineteen ninety five.

607
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.319
You know, Kilmer declines the offer based on their strained

608
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:11.359
working relationship, and McConaughey, who had initially MI understanding is

609
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.000
he initially goes into uh to read for Freddy Cobb,

610
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.200
who played who's played by Keith for Sutlin. He doesn't

611
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.440
feel good about that that role and he he kind

612
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.599
of lobbies Schuemaker says, hey, man, give me a chance.

613
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.759
Shoemaker says, I'll tell you what I'll I'll give you

614
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:29.200
an audition. Let's let's see what you got, and he uh.

615
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:30.519
He makes Schumacher a believer.

616
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.519
The guys in both roles, whether it's Mickey Harror or

617
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.440
in Time to Kill, McConaughey just, I don't know, it's charisma.

618
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.640
There's something about his performance. It just sucks you in.

619
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:41.519
I loved it.

620
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.000
I'll tell you there's a co star that that sometimes

621
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:50.000
gets mentioned when we're talking about Time to Kill and

622
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.079
I'm actually talking about Sweat because you know, you gotta

623
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:58.480
remember this is John Grisham's first novel, and upon seeing

624
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.319
the film for the first time, he was quoted as saying,

625
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:04.480
doesn't Joel Schumacher know that they have air conditioning in Mississippi.

626
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.359
This is this is like the sweatiest film ever man.

627
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.000
And I mean I dig it, Like Ashley Judd is,

628
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.000
she's hotter than the a firecracker on the fourth of July.

629
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:18.000
To quote Max Katie Matthew mcconaughead, I mean everyone is

630
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:20.920
just they're sweaty down there in Mississippi.

631
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.880
Yeah, we're right there beside him. And I spent a

632
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.480
lot of time in rural courtrooms all over the state,

633
00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:29.240
and yeah, they all have air conditioning.

634
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.920
James, I gotta ask, how often you know A Time

635
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:39.079
to Kill has some great moments where someone brings in

636
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:44.119
an expert witness to give testimony, and then whether it's

637
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.920
whether it doesn't matter which side of the that we're on,

638
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:52.960
the other lawyer has some dirt, tears, the tears the

639
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.200
guy down, and all of a sudden, it's like, we're

640
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:59.759
not gonna you know, you know, Jerry, disregard the testimony.

641
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:03.480
There is that Is that something that you've seen in uh,

642
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:05.240
in your time in the courthouse.

643
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.400
More so in my years when I was working for

644
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:09.960
civil law firms.

645
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:10.840
Mm hmmm.

646
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:14.639
A lot of personal injury or medical malpractice cases, both

647
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.760
sides will try to present experts. This is what we'll

648
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.719
We'll discuss this a little more later, but there's a

649
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:24.840
Supreme Court decision of Dull Bear d A U B. E. R. Team,

650
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:28.920
which basically sets the criteria for determining someone's expertise, and

651
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.679
both sides get to go at them. You get to

652
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:32.760
grill them and find out if your credentials stand up,

653
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.039
and it ultimately comes down to the judge making that decision.

654
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.320
But yeah, that's not unusual.

655
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.519
I see again. I watch these movies and I just think, ah,

656
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:44.320
this is just you know, they're they're they're taking a

657
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:46.599
lot of liberties because it doesn't you're not gonna see

658
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:49.559
this in the court uh court of law. But we

659
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.519
you know, we have our own expert right here. You're

660
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.599
you're telling us like, yeah, don't don't be surprised if

661
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.000
you see that happen, if you're if you're there, that's that.

662
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.639
It's fascinating to me, man, It honestly is very fascinating

663
00:34:59.679 --> 00:34:59.840
to me.

664
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:03.679
But I enjoy it because a lot of times, you know,

665
00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:07.559
movies condensed things the timelines considerably, or you have things

666
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:09.599
like law and Order where everything's over and done within

667
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:16.000
forty minutes. Yeah, sometimes some actual, true legal, some true

668
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.440
legal elements will surface in some of these movies. Always

669
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:19.320
appreciate seeing that.

670
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.519
Well. And then another thing, and this is another reason

671
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.960
I you know, that's another thing I love about A

672
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.239
Time to Kill. Samuel Jackson is clearly guilty. He murders

673
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.559
two guys in front of everybody, and because of the

674
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:38.360
emotions that are that are at play here, he's acquitted. Like,

675
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.440
you know, is this one of those things where like, uh, justice,

676
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.360
you know, like, yeah, we got we have our laws,

677
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.519
but sometimes justice has to prevail regardless.

678
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:53.159
Yeah, there's a concept called jury nullification, where if the

679
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:56.320
jurors believe strongly enough in something, they can ignore some

680
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.159
of the elements of the crime that's been presented to

681
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.079
them and reach a decision that might not have seemed obvious,

682
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:02.079
like kind of what they did here.

683
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.880
Okay. That makes me happy though, because I you know,

684
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.719
I don't know what father isn't gonna take Carl Lee's

685
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:15.199
stance and go after some you know, some vigilanta justice.

686
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.920
But it makes me happy to know that that's you know,

687
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:19.960
it's possibility out there.

688
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:24.159
Well, speaking as another father, Yeah, totally agree.

689
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.639
So then you agree that yes, they deserve to die,

690
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:29.639
and you hope they burn in.

691
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.559
Hell allegedly off the record.

692
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:37.119
Yeah, yeah, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. We're going

693
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.039
to take a short recess to hear from some of

694
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:44.800
our sponsors and we'll be right back. We're getting to it, James.

695
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.480
Let's talk exhibit number two. What do you got for me?

696
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.400
As I said this one, the top three were tough

697
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:57.440
for me. For number two, I have them film in

698
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.559
nineteen ninety three, comedy classic, my cousin Vinnie.

699
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:05.280
When you viewed the defendants walking from their car into

700
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.079
the sack of SuDS, what angle was your point of view?

701
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:11.400
They was kind of welcomed toward me when they entered

702
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:11.960
the Star.

703
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.800
And when they left, what angle was your point of view?

704
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:16.519
It was kind of walking away from me.

705
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:19.199
So would you say you got a better shot at

706
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.400
him going in and not so much coming out?

707
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:24.119
You could say that, I did say that.

708
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:25.000
Would you say that?

709
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:25.719
Yeah?

710
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.599
Is it possible to two utes to what?

711
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:40.280
What was that word? What word to what? What did

712
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:40.679
you say?

713
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:41.159
Utes?

714
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:41.880
Yeah?

715
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:42.519
Two utes?

716
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.079
What is a ute?

717
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.199
I mean? This movie is a comedy classic. There are

718
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.239
so many funny things about this from you know, Joe

719
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.960
Peshy's wig. He had to been pushing fifty at this time.

720
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:54.519
She always laugh when I see his hair.

721
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.239
He's forty nine. You're right, he's pushing fifty.

722
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.840
But there's in them in This film was so well done.

723
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:05.320
I read somewhere that the screenwriter originally based of any

724
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.360
Joe Pesty's character on Sam Kennison, So that explained some

725
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:14.000
of his the way he treats people, which that joided immensely.

726
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.599
That explains a lot, and it also explains something that

727
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:22.039
I discovered and Jay again, listen, man, if we were

728
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.360
trying to case together, I think I think we'd be

729
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:27.480
dynamite because we're we're in sync here. This also is

730
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:32.199
my number two and you're talking about Kennison. This movie

731
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.119
begins as a starring vehicle for Andrew dice Clay when

732
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:40.199
he's a whoa yeah. It was in his twenty fourteen

733
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:45.559
autobiography called The Filthy Truth, he says, after the Adventures

734
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:48.440
of Ford Fahlane bombed at the box office in nineteen ninety,

735
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.920
Fox drops him, I mean they drop him flat. And

736
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.119
he even goes on to say, and I'm quoting him

737
00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:59.000
here in from his book, if I wasn't going to

738
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:02.239
do it. To have Joe Pesci played the role was incredible.

739
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:05.079
I don't get mad at that stuff. That's show business.

740
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:09.480
Can you imagine that, though Dickery Rocket that has me

741
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:14.400
on his docket? Whoa, oh man?

742
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:19.559
The movie doesn't work with Dice. I loved, I was.

743
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.760
I was always a fan of Dice back in the day.

744
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:25.639
But I don't think this movie works with him now.

745
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:29.239
I think Peschi's role was the Italian, the Italian tough

746
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:32.559
guy who's gonna completely fish out of water down South.

747
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:34.840
I don't think anyone could have handled as well as

748
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.559
he did. No, this movie has so many it was

749
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.840
based I think Dale Lonner maybe in the screenwriter had

750
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.239
read a story about a lawyer who finally passed the

751
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.679
bar on his thirteenth to ten. He thought that'd make

752
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:48.559
a great idea for a story. He also spent some

753
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:50.760
time down south where he got stuck in the mud.

754
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.400
He met Southern District attorney and had a you know,

755
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:57.400
some long talks with him. I think all that was

756
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.519
incorporated in the final screenplay. And then you get who

757
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:01.880
is the director? Jonathan Lynn?

758
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:03.039
Jonathan Lynn.

759
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:06.440
He graduated law school in Cambridge over in Mary Old

760
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.199
England and said he wanted everything to be as legally

761
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:12.599
accurate as it could be. And when you watch this film,

762
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.400
I mean, there are law schools which have classes which

763
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.119
mentioned when introduction of evidence and experts in all how

764
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:23.039
well this movie handled it. There's a judge, a federal

765
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.559
judge from up in South Carolina, who wrote a blog post.

766
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:29.880
I looked it up today. It's called ten things Every

767
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.199
Trial Lawyer could learn from Vincent LaGuardia Gambini, and I

768
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:36.880
read it today. That should be required reading for every

769
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.760
lawyer out there. Man. He uses specific examples of things

770
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:45.599
Vinnie did, like changing his technique for different witnesses, how

771
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:48.239
to introduce experts. I mean, there's so many great things

772
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.760
in this movie. The judge fred Wynn, you know, probably

773
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:52.599
his last role.

774
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:55.239
I believe this was the final role that he that

775
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.119
he played. He's awesome.

776
00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:00.199
Though he's awesome. He's like a lot of the old

777
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:04.360
school lawyers. They're really picky about decorum in the court.

778
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.000
And I understand if you behave like Vinnie did early on,

779
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.159
you're gonna get contempt. I mentioned earlier, I was a

780
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.079
court for a judge in the town of Saint Francisville

781
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.599
and West Filichiana Parish, which is where Angola State Prison

782
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:20.559
is located. By the way, It's another story, but we

783
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:23.480
were in court. I was sitting beside the judges bench.

784
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.400
A guy from out of town was that came in late,

785
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.119
barely walks in the door and his cell phone rings

786
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.360
and he picks it up and answers it in the courtroom.

787
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.400
This judge did not hesitate before putting that man in

788
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.760
contempt and having the bailiff take him off and put

789
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:39.760
him in the holding cell to can pay for get

790
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:43.400
a few hundred dollars. Wow. Yeah, they do take it seriously.

791
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:47.199
But again it's all the little things. His office looked

792
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:50.199
just like every judge's office. I've ever been in papers everywhere,

793
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:54.760
law books filling the bookcase behind him. But you tell

794
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:56.719
you the attention of detail. You may remember the part

795
00:41:56.719 --> 00:42:00.199
where the judge is telling Vinnie how important procedure is

796
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.840
to him. The book he gave him. Forget the exact

797
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:08.119
title of it. It's the Alabama Criminal Procedure Book and

798
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:10.159
it was if you freeze frame it you can see

799
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:14.880
it says by Hu Maddics. Hu Matics was the longest

800
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:17.840
one of the longest serving justices on the Alabama Supreme

801
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:21.360
Court from nineteen sixty nine to two thousand and one.

802
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.920
He wrote over fifteen hundred opinions and was evident one

803
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.159
of the gurus for criminal procedures. So you know that

804
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.679
was that wasn't just a random book they gave Vinnie.

805
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:30.719
That was the real deal.

806
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:36.719
I'll tell you one uh one actor that doesn't get

807
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.559
near enough recognition for my cousin Vinnie, and I honestly

808
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.000
I think he steals the show is Austin Pendleton as

809
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:50.719
the stuttering public defender. He originally turned the part down

810
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:54.360
because he has an actual stutter in real life, and

811
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.199
he only did the He only did this movie as

812
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.519
a favor to Jonathan Lynn because they happened to buddies.

813
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:03.800
I laughed so hard at that. But it also you

814
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:07.199
sympathize for the guy. I mean, particularly in rural areas

815
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:11.679
like this town, the public defenders are so burdened down.

816
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.760
They have so many cases they barely know which one's

817
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.559
coming up next. And so yeah, I understand the stress.

818
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:19.800
I mean, I would have probably resulted in me stuttering

819
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:23.119
as well being thrown into a capital murder trial right

820
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:23.920
off the bat.

821
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.320
After that brilliant display that he puts on. I love

822
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:31.880
that he's still the character, still has the confidence at

823
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:38.000
the end and just go no more questions. He's fantastic.

824
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:42.519
I'll say something. Yeah, I'll tell you something that really

825
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:47.440
caught me by surprise. And actually I learned this we're doing.

826
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:49.599
We did a Jonathan Lynn episode not too long ago.

827
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.639
They had a sequel to My Cousin Vinny in the works,

828
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.280
and granted, this movie works on multiple levels, but one

829
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:01.920
of the things that works really well for it is

830
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:05.039
it's that classic fish out of Water story. You know

831
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:08.880
you mentioned Lynn, you know, was at Cambridge. The idea

832
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:12.360
was going to be that he Vinnie finds himself in

833
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:16.280
Britain trying a case, and they were trying to line

834
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:20.039
up the schedules. Marissa Tomy is on board. They kind

835
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:21.840
of drag their feet a little bit. She backs out

836
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:25.119
of the production. It goes through several rewrites and then no,

837
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:29.559
Marissa Tomey oscar winner for My Cousin Vinnie, no movie,

838
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.559
and it goes, uh, you know, it goes in admissible,

839
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.079
as you guys like to say, But imagine that, Imagine

840
00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:39.199
that My Cousin Vinny sequel.

841
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.400
Was there ever anybody cuter than Marissa Tomey was in

842
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:42.920
this movie.

843
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:48.519
No, not at all, you can't. You know, she's she's amazing,

844
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:52.599
she is, you know, she she absolutely win. You know,

845
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.719
she absolutely deserves the Oscar that she wins for her

846
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:58.199
role as Miss Mona.

847
00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:03.079
Lisa Vito, I just love My wife will sometimes still

848
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:09.079
say yeah, you blend if I'm questioning, yeah, not team

849
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:11.000
this movie. And again it goes down to all the

850
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:15.199
little details that got right during the raiment. For Vinnie's clients,

851
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.920
they start trying to tell the whole story, and fred

852
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.519
Wynn stamps down that quickly said, now this is a raiment.

853
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:22.360
This is not time to discuss the facts. Is this

854
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.559
guilty or not guilty? A lot of times you will

855
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:27.480
see people who do want to go into the story

856
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:29.800
in the facts wrapped in No, that is not the

857
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:30.719
time or place for that.

858
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:35.079
I love the idea. You know, we're talking about my cousin, Vinnie,

859
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:39.000
and this is basically Vinnie's first case, and fred Wynn

860
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:43.320
is just hammer hammering on him the entire time. But

861
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:44.920
you know, then when you look back at a movie

862
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.840
like The rain Maker, you know, Matt Damon it's his

863
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:52.559
first big case. And meanwhile, Danny Glover's kind of helping

864
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.360
him along, you know, And I love that. I love that.

865
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.159
I love the contrast there. When I was watching a

866
00:45:57.199 --> 00:45:59.679
bunch of these movies recently, I was like, man, I

867
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.360
would have to get Danny Glover try my case. Not

868
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:05.639
so sure about Fred Winn. Yeah, I'd be a little,

869
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:08.360
a little intimidated by Fred Winn. I know we didn't

870
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:12.400
do this on the other other choices, James, but let's

871
00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:15.559
let's talk your favorite moment from my cousin, Vinnie. Do

872
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:18.039
you have a whether it's your favorite moment, the funniest moment.

873
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.119
Well, there are lots of funny moments, but my favorite

874
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.159
moment and I guess this is just the legal side

875
00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:28.840
of my brain. When he introduces moment Lisa as his expert. Okay,

876
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.480
Jim Trotter the district attorney, which I thought Lane Smith

877
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:36.360
did a great job. It's Smith's fantastic and I related

878
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.760
to that character a lot. But Lane Smith has just

879
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:43.000
spent all this time introducing his expert, going over all

880
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:47.920
his credentials. And then Vinnie gets up there, brings his fiance,

881
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.960
who is not happy with him in the slightest to

882
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:55.400
introduce his mechanics. What's funny is man, this was uh,

883
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:58.440
I guess they're predicting the future. Up until that time,

884
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:00.599
A lot of times when he had experts, all guys

885
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:04.880
with a bunch of letters after their name PhD. All this. Well,

886
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:08.159
Mona Lisa gets up there and during the witness the

887
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:11.079
expert verification process, she proves that she has just as

888
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.440
much knowledge as some guy with the PhD. In nineteen

889
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.039
ninety nine, there was a US Supreme Court case called

890
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:22.119
Koombra Tire versus Carmichael, and that redefined the whole standard

891
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.920
for bringing experts. It allowed you could have a layperson

892
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.039
to come in as an expert if you established their credentials.

893
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:29.960
And this movie saw that one come in six years

894
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:30.519
in advance.

895
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.039
How about that. I can't I can't think of anyone

896
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.599
that would be more of an expert than Mona Lisa

897
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:41.920
detail when it comes to auto mechanics.

898
00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:44.039
I think her posit traction.

899
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:48.000
Yeah, I think for me and you like, you're right, man,

900
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:52.079
This movie is just it's packed with comedic moments. But

901
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:56.519
I would have to go with the biological clock scene.

902
00:47:57.480 --> 00:47:58.960
Well, I hate to bring it up because I know

903
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:02.400
you got enough pressure on you already, but we agreed

904
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:04.800
to get married as soon as you won your first case. Meanwhile,

905
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.119
ten years later, my niece, the daughter of my sister,

906
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:11.559
is getting married. My biological clock is taking like this,

907
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:14.079
and the way this case is going, I ain't never

908
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:14.880
getting married.

909
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:16.719
Beasaid, I don't need this.

910
00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:20.400
I swear to God, I do not need this right now. Okay,

911
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:23.320
I got a judge that's just aching to throw me

912
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.880
in jail, an idiot who wants to fight me for

913
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:32.599
two hundred dollars, slaughtered pigs, giant loud whistles. I ain't

914
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.920
slept in five days. I got no money, a dress

915
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.400
code problem, and a little murder case which in the

916
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:42.639
balance holds the lives of pooh innocent kids. Not to

917
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:44.079
mention your.

918
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:50.000
Biological clock, my career, your life, a marriage, and let

919
00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.639
me see what else can we pile on? Is there

920
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:55.159
any more shit we could pile on to the top

921
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:56.679
of the outcome of this case?

922
00:48:57.800 --> 00:48:59.000
Is it possible.

923
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:01.599
It was a bad time to bring it up.

924
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:03.920
I'll tell you another funny. You know you didn't mention it,

925
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:06.199
and it's not it's I don't think it's the funniest scene,

926
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:10.639
but it's it definitely is a funny scene. Is the

927
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:15.679
moment when Vinnie goes to meet uh, you know, meet

928
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:18.840
the boys in prison, and there's that there's that miscommunication.

929
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:21.800
Gratitude will not be out of line.

930
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:29.280
Yeah, I can't believe this, but Jonathan Lynn almost cut

931
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:33.039
that scene. And the reason for it is because he

932
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:34.960
is such a he was such a stickler to details

933
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.960
and making this an authentic trial. He pointed out. He's like,

934
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.719
you know what, that would never happen. They would never

935
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.800
put the he would never have access to the prison.

936
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.559
He would meet them in like an interview room. And

937
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:51.320
he almost cuts it just on that technicality until the

938
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.280
editors were like, dude, this is a funny moment. You're

939
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:56.679
gonna You're not gonna get this back, so you got

940
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:58.400
to keep it. And he's like, he's all right, I'll

941
00:49:58.480 --> 00:49:59.679
keep it in and.

942
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.679
Accurate as far as this goes. That's accurate. But man,

943
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.800
that taking that scene out would have reduced the comedy

944
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:08.599
value so much. It's so funny.

945
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.920
I agree with you. Well, I'll tell you what that

946
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.119
we listen, we have gone through four of our picks here.

947
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:19.199
I know we talked about it at the beginning. We said, uh,

948
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.840
we'll take a break for some honorable mentions. But here's

949
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:26.199
the here's the kicker. I'm not going to offer any

950
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:31.000
honorable mentions. James, You're not going to offer any honorable mentions,

951
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.079
but we will. Here from the the honorable James D.

952
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:38.400
Graves of the show You Can't Be Serious Podcast. He

953
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:41.840
happens to practice law too, and I thought who better

954
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:46.400
to uh to hear honorable mentions from than James D. Graves.

955
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:49.239
All rise for the Honorable James D. Graves.

956
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:51.480
Honorable.

957
00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:56.159
All right, you all maybe seated. We have been presented

958
00:50:56.360 --> 00:51:01.480
with defendants exhibits five through four and plintiffs exhibits five

959
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:07.280
through four, and everyone is anxious to hear each party's

960
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:11.400
exhibit number one. But before we do, thank you guys

961
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.519
very much for having me in to give you my

962
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:18.239
top five list. I really appreciate getting to see a

963
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.719
sneak preview of your lists because I.

964
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:23.360
Was able to eliminate some of mine.

965
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:25.599
I was having a little trouble getting it down to

966
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:30.239
just five. But without further ado, here are my top

967
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.920
five courtroom movies.

968
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:34.199
Number five.

969
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:37.639
How could I, as a man from the Shirley You

970
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:41.840
Can't Be Serious Podcast, pick any movie that's not an

971
00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:44.800
eighties movie for my first choice out of the box,

972
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:50.159
so of course I pick David Kelly's first big movie

973
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:54.639
from the hip. Here we have not one, but two

974
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:58.840
fantastic courtroom scenes, one a bit of a show and

975
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:05.000
another lay on an old joke or urban legend if

976
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:06.760
you will, but I don't want to give away too much.

977
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.320
Stars Jed Nelson as young Stormy, the attorney he goes

978
00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:13.760
from bender to be and Stormy. It was directed by

979
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.880
our friend Bob Clark from a Christmas story. So Bob

980
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:20.800
Clark's son is having an auction at his school and

981
00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:24.840
Bob Clark offers as a prize to the highest bidder

982
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:28.840
a behind the scenes peak at this particular movie. But

983
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.400
as it turns out, he makes the winning family extras

984
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:34.440
in the movie, so that's pretty cool. David Kelly, of

985
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.519
course a big hero and influence in me and my

986
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:41.039
decision to become a lawyer. And that brings me to

987
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:46.199
my exhibit. For my number four pick, we're going back

988
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:51.760
to nineteen fifty seven's Witness for the Prosecution. It is

989
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:57.159
a Billy Wilder directed and written piece based on the

990
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:02.639
story by Agatha Christie, starring Tyrone Power, Marlena Dietrich, and

991
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:07.159
Charles Lawton. This one has a fantastic twist ending and

992
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:10.679
is one for the ages, one of the highest IMDb

993
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:15.400
ranked movies in existence, and a fantastic movie. I encourage

994
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:16.440
everybody to check it out.

995
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:18.760
Now for my exhibit.

996
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:23.840
Number three, for which I am jumping ahead fifty years

997
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:26.639
from Witness for the Prosecution all the way up to

998
00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:31.519
two thousand and seven for a movie called Fracture. The

999
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:35.880
stars Anthony Hopkins and Ryan Gosling, and they are both

1000
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.079
at their finest.

1001
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:38.519
In this movie.

1002
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:41.760
This isn't a who done it? This isn't even a

1003
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:46.079
why done it? This is a how is he going

1004
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:49.239
to get away with this? Because just when you think

1005
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:52.760
there's no chance that he will, he just might do it.

1006
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:56.480
Great movie. I encourage everybody to watch it. I don't

1007
00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.239
think it's on a lot of people's radar, but it

1008
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.800
is a fantastic movie, all right. Coming in for exhibit

1009
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:08.199
number two, we have Jim Carrey coming in as one

1010
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:13.719
of the greatest roles I've seen him play a liar,

1011
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:18.519
I mean lawyer. Sorry, this movie is nineteen ninety seven's

1012
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:22.119
Liar Liar. I literally watched this one two nights ago

1013
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:25.559
with my daughter because this list was in my head

1014
00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:27.280
and I thought, I need to check this one out.

1015
00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:31.159
And since you guys just both knocked cousin Vinny off

1016
00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:33.559
of my list, I needed another comedy to come in.

1017
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:38.000
But this is well worthy, great great comedy and a

1018
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:43.079
fantastic courtroom scene featuring Missus Jennifer Tilly herself.

1019
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:44.880
Great movie.

1020
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:48.800
Everybody should go watch it. Now we are to my

1021
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.199
number one pick, and as it turns out, I got

1022
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:55.360
to have a sneak preview of what you guys are

1023
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:57.119
picking for your number one and I will tell you

1024
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.599
all of those movies were on my list, but since

1025
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:02.519
you had them, I don't want to spoil anything, and

1026
00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:04.960
I definitely have one that was going to fit finish

1027
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:10.599
above those. My final number one pick, Exhibit number one,

1028
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:17.639
I give you Inherit the Wind, originally a play based

1029
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:23.079
on the true case nineteen twenty five Scopes Monkey Trials,

1030
00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:27.079
where a teacher was convicted of a crime for teaching

1031
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:32.239
evolution in his class, and as a result, one of

1032
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:36.280
the most famous, if not the most famous attorney in

1033
00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.679
the country came to defend him, which then prompted the

1034
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:43.519
town to hire the second most famous attorney in the

1035
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:49.320
country as a special prosecutor. This was Powerhouse versus Powerhouse.

1036
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.760
It was national news. This was the biggest event of

1037
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:56.880
nineteen twenty five. It became a play, which then became

1038
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:01.960
a movie in nineteen sixty, starring Spencer Tracy, Frederick Marsh,

1039
00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:07.719
Gene Kelly, Dick York Yes be Witched Dick York as

1040
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:12.119
the teacher, and Harry Morgan from Mash as the judge

1041
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:15.639
and good Old Claude Aikins from BJ and the Bear

1042
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:20.519
as Reverend Jeremiah. This movie is my number one pick

1043
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:25.320
because back in the year nineteen ninety eight, I happen

1044
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:30.880
to catch a stage production of this play and it's

1045
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:35.360
what inspired me to become an attorney. So how could

1046
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:39.559
I possibly pick any other movie than this movie. Guys,

1047
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.039
thank you for letting me come on and do This

1048
00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:46.760
been a fun ride and I'm so excited for everyone

1049
00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:50.559
to hear what your number one picks are. Court will

1050
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.159
be in recess until such time as the parties are

1051
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:55.199
ready to present their final arguments.

1052
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:59.039
Well, there you have it. James D. Graves from the

1053
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:02.280
Surely You Can Be Serious Podcast come in with some

1054
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:07.599
excellent picks. Fracture for one, one of my favorites. Love

1055
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:11.320
Fracture and James, We thank you for taking the time

1056
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:15.360
to pass judgment on this episode and offer up your

1057
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:20.840
honorable mentions. All right, it is time we have reached

1058
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:25.840
the number one spot, the number one picks. Mister Buckley,

1059
00:57:26.800 --> 00:57:30.599
your last piece of evidence that you're going to offer

1060
00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:34.239
Exhibit one A. What is your top pick?

1061
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:36.920
If I had my drum set setup right now, I'd

1062
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:37.800
give you a drum roll.

1063
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:39.360
I might put one in.

1064
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:44.000
Hey, this I mentioned the earlier the American Bar Association

1065
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:47.639
list of top twenty five legal films. My cousin Vinnie

1066
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:51.480
was number three, but this movie is number one. Nineteen

1067
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:53.599
sixty two is to Kill a Mockingbird?

1068
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.320
How old are you when you got your first gun?

1069
00:57:56.400 --> 00:58:02.280
After thirteen fourteen? I remember when my daddy gave me

1070
00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:05.760
that gun. He told me that I should never pointed

1071
00:58:05.800 --> 00:58:09.480
anything in the house, and that he'd read i'd shooted

1072
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.519
tin cans in the backyard. But he said that sooner

1073
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.119
or later you supposed the temptation to go after birds,

1074
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:17.840
it'd be too much, and that I could shoot all

1075
00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:20.760
of the blue jays I wanted if I could hit them,

1076
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.239
to remember it was a sin to kill a mocking bird.

1077
00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:30.079
Hum Well, I reckon because mocking birds don't do anything

1078
00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:31.920
but make music for us to enjoy.

1079
00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:35.920
This movie has probably inspired more people to become lawyers

1080
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:39.000
than pretty much anything else. I read the book when

1081
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:41.480
I was in the eighth grade, and I told my

1082
00:58:41.559 --> 00:58:43.880
mom how much I loved it, and she said, oh,

1083
00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:46.400
you should see the movie. Of course, this being the

1084
00:58:46.519 --> 00:58:48.000
early eighties, I had to wait a while if I

1085
00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:50.519
could track it down to the local VHS place, But

1086
00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:54.639
when I finally did see the movie, it became a

1087
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:57.679
perpetual favorite. I mean, you've got a coming of age

1088
00:58:57.760 --> 00:59:01.800
story from the point of view Scout watching her dad.

1089
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:05.800
I mean, with an incredible performance from Gregor Repeck. I mean,

1090
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:10.000
it's just such an amazing performance Atticus Finch defending Tom Robinson.

1091
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:14.159
He comes across as such a dignified, honorable man, and

1092
00:59:15.079 --> 00:59:19.159
even though the times and the culture of the times

1093
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:21.320
were against him, he still put everything on the line

1094
00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:23.840
to represent a man that most people were ready just

1095
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:26.800
to ship off to the prison at the time. And

1096
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.840
I remember reading with the author Harper Lee said that

1097
00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:32.760
this movie would not have worked without Gregory Peck that

1098
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.559
basically played himself. I was around lawyers a lot coming up.

1099
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:39.079
My mom was a paralegal for lawyers. I was always

1100
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:43.280
in around courthouses and her office. But that was the

1101
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:44.920
first of the book and Ben the movie with the

1102
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:46.440
first things that make me to think that you know

1103
00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:49.159
you hear a lot of lawyer jokes, and today were

1104
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:52.920
bombarded by personal injury billboard attorneys all over the interstate.

1105
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:58.000
But Atticus showed that you could be an upstanding human

1106
00:59:58.039 --> 00:59:59.679
being and try your best to do the right thing

1107
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.800
as a lawyer, and that just it inspired me, and

1108
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:04.840
I didn't think so much about it until years later

1109
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.519
when I was in law school. Some students are doing

1110
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:11.719
a documentary on To Kill Mockingbird, and they asked me

1111
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:13.800
if I wanted to talk, so I rambled for a

1112
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:15.559
few minutes. When I was talking to him, I realized

1113
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:18.440
that that movie really had been a big initial inspiration

1114
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:20.800
that I guess ultimately got me where I am today.

1115
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:25.400
I'll tell you another person right for the role. It's

1116
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:27.800
incredible because I think he's only on screen for maybe

1117
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:31.679
seven or eight minutes. We get a very young Robert

1118
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:37.480
Duvall playing bou Radley. Doesn't even speak. It's amazing, and.

1119
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:39.400
I loved how bou Radley had been made out to

1120
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:41.119
be some sort of neighborhood boogieman.

1121
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:44.199
Oh yeah, you know, I'm reading the book the first time.

1122
01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.480
I'm terrified of bou Radley and then until you see

1123
01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:47.920
who he is.

1124
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:53.480
That was Deval's first film. Yep. Oh wow, that's a

1125
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:54.800
hell of a way to start your career.

1126
01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:59.599
I think. So, yeah, this is this is a situation, James.

1127
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.480
I could be wrong, but I don't think they've ever

1128
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:06.159
done a remake of this film, and I hope that

1129
01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:09.400
they never do, because I just couldn't imagine. You know,

1130
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.400
there's certain classics that you just don't touch. I feel

1131
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:13.920
To Kill a Mockingbird is one of them.

1132
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.039
Yeah, some movies you can see you need to update it,

1133
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:19.760
but movies like this, I mean, it's perfection right out

1134
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.000
the gate. There's no need to go back and alter anything.

1135
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:25.320
But I mean, this movie the accolades. A got what

1136
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.199
three Academy Awards were, including Best Actor for peck Yep.

1137
01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:32.480
In nineteen ninety five, the Library of Congress declared the

1138
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:35.840
movie in national treasure and put in its archives. Two

1139
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:39.000
thousand and three, the American Film ins that you Atticus

1140
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.760
is the number one greatest hero of the twentieth century. So,

1141
01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.199
I mean, for a book written in nineteen sixty it's

1142
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:46.400
still resonating today.

1143
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:50.840
It absolutely is. I gotta tell you, man, we've been

1144
01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:55.639
in sync this whole episode. And I have a different

1145
01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:59.880
choice for my number one. But I noticed, you know, like,

1146
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:02.400
look at your list, looking at my list, a lot

1147
01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:04.960
of modern films, a lot of a lot of contemporary

1148
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:07.119
films that we've we've we've chose, and then your big

1149
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:10.400
number one draw was to kill a mockingbird. I don't

1150
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:12.000
you know. I don't know if I get away with

1151
01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:14.480
this in in your Court, But I've been I've been

1152
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:18.079
zigging this whole episode. I'm about to zag my number one.

1153
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:22.119
Nineteen fifty seven, twelve Angry Men.

1154
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:24.400
Was Buddy not guilty?

1155
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:25.159
One?

1156
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:28.360
Right? Eleven guilty one?

1157
01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:29.079
Not guilty?

1158
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:31.840
Well, now we know where we are.

1159
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:34.840
Oh boy, there's always one.

1160
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:37.679
Oh what are we doing now?

1161
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:43.559
I guess we talk? Oh boy, you really think he's innocent?

1162
01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:45.800
I don't know.

1163
01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:52.360
Directed by Cidy Lamette in his feature directorial debut. And look,

1164
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:58.880
technically we're not inside the courtroom, but technically we are

1165
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:03.800
in the court. In the courthouse. You know, the entire film,

1166
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:06.199
save for I think three minutes, is shot inside a

1167
01:03:06.239 --> 01:03:10.440
confining jury room measuring sixteen by twenty four and James.

1168
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:12.360
When you watch it, you can feel the heat, you

1169
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:16.239
can feel the claustrophobia, just just boiling to the surface.

1170
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:21.480
Not always it my number one pick for courtroom film.

1171
01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:24.079
This is a I would say this is definitely on

1172
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:27.000
my top ten of all time. It's just amazing, you know,

1173
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:29.199
and you know, I know some of our listeners might

1174
01:03:29.239 --> 01:03:30.920
not have seen it. You know when sometimes when we

1175
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.079
talk about older films, we get people going, I don't

1176
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.599
know if I've seen that one. The jury in a

1177
01:03:36.679 --> 01:03:40.199
New York City murder trial becomes increasingly agitated by a

1178
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:44.800
single member played by Henry Fonda, whose uncertainty of the

1179
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:48.199
outcome forces them to carefully consider the evidence before rendering

1180
01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:53.679
a speedy verdict. Absolutely amazing film, mesmerizing film. I don't

1181
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:56.039
I don't know, for my money, you don't do better

1182
01:03:56.119 --> 01:03:57.519
than an ensemble cast like this.

1183
01:03:59.199 --> 01:04:02.280
The jury, I mean, it's not the courtroom, but the

1184
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:06.360
jury room, the final deliberations, that's the culmination of everything's

1185
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:09.599
going before. So you know, it's incredibly ripe for drama.

1186
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:12.079
I'm surprised there haven't been more movies made about that.

1187
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:13.280
Mm hmm.

1188
01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:15.800
That's when when I was discussing with my family, my

1189
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:19.079
daughter watched this in a class in school last year,

1190
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:21.599
and that's that was her first suggestion when I was

1191
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:24.239
mentioning best court room or legal films. Yeah, I said,

1192
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:26.920
I did have that one. It's just been so long

1193
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:29.599
since I've seen it, but I watched it in a

1194
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:32.920
film appreciation class a long time ago. But yeah, I

1195
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:37.280
mean the tension, the fact that one juror is delaying

1196
01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:39.599
all these people from carrying on with their lives. Yeah,

1197
01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:42.320
fantastic film, excellent choice, you know.

1198
01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:45.360
And here's the thing, like you talked about, you know,

1199
01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:49.159
she watched it for school. This film is routinely shown

1200
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:53.039
in business schools and workshops to illustrate team dynamics and

1201
01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:55.960
conflict resolution. And I, you know, I don't know about you,

1202
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:58.800
but I've been with my career, I've been in many

1203
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:02.639
you know, uh, team building events and con you know,

1204
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:06.440
conflict resolution and how to work together. And this movie

1205
01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:10.960
is the epitome of a group of strangers at odds

1206
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:13.159
with each other, but then learning to come together and

1207
01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:16.880
and and working together to get the to get the

1208
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:20.880
right the right outcome. I absolutely love it, man, Henry Fonda.

1209
01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:24.280
I know he uh, he stars in this movie. He

1210
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:26.800
also produces this. I think United Artists asked him to,

1211
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:28.239
you know, hey, we want to we will put this

1212
01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:30.920
one out there. He's the one that hires Sidney Lamette

1213
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.800
for it. And it's just a I don't know, how

1214
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:34.880
do you how do you get a cast like this?

1215
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.440
Henry Fonda, Lee J. Cobb, Martin Balsom, E. G. Marshall,

1216
01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:43.639
Jack Klugman. I mean, it's a it's a who's who

1217
01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:48.519
of a of classic talent here, I think, And it's amazing.

1218
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:51.519
Yeah, you wouldn't think just a group of strangers in

1219
01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:53.599
a room for a while could make for such drama.

1220
01:05:53.719 --> 01:05:55.880
But wow, yeah, incredible.

1221
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.159
Yeah, this one, this one is tense from the get

1222
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:02.840
go right up to the end. Cob. I don't know

1223
01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.320
how Cobb doesn't win the you know, the Academy Award

1224
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:09.199
for this one. His breakdown at the end, and you know,

1225
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:11.719
guy's been he's been a jerk the whole the whole movie.

1226
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:16.480
And then once you realize how he's projecting his own

1227
01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:22.239
emotional trauma into the into the case, all of a sudden,

1228
01:06:22.280 --> 01:06:24.199
it's like, you know what, I feel bad for this guy.

1229
01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:27.639
He's breaking my heart A little bit, but fantastic film.

1230
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.119
I've talked to a few jurors after trials. In some cases,

1231
01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.519
I mean, it's easy, the evidence is that incontrovertible. But

1232
01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:38.960
in some cases, particularly murdered, when you were replacing such

1233
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:42.559
a stress on these people, their decision will result. I

1234
01:06:42.599 --> 01:06:45.360
mean that determination of what happens to someone else's life.

1235
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:48.239
And I think, in a microcuse of this movie pretty

1236
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:50.000
much perfectly represented.

1237
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:53.280
That I'm inclined to agree with you, man, I think

1238
01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:56.559
that's going about do it for us? Uh, listeners, what

1239
01:06:56.719 --> 01:06:59.679
did you think of our top five choices for courtroom movies?

1240
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:03.199
Which ones made your list? Which ones did we miss?

1241
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:06.840
You can offer your expert testimony or hold us in

1242
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:11.880
contempt at www dot a film bypodcast dot com, email

1243
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:14.320
us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com,

1244
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:17.199
or hit us up on social media. You'll find us

1245
01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:21.760
on Facebook, Instagram, and x Information. I'd like to thank

1246
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:25.559
my guest James Buckley for joining me today to share

1247
01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:29.239
his top five courtroom movies and his legal expertise. James,

1248
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:33.119
this was a blast. I'm glad we finally cleared the

1249
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:37.320
dockets to get this one done. I can't thank you enough, sir,

1250
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:38.760
it's been.

1251
01:07:38.719 --> 01:07:41.119
An absolute pleasure. Jeff. I'm glad that we're finally able

1252
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:43.119
to do it, and hey, let's do it again. Sometimes

1253
01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:45.079
maybe we can discuss why there does not need to

1254
01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:46.400
be a sequel to Gladiator.

1255
01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:50.280
That's a hot take all of a sudden, man, and

1256
01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:53.000
this coming from the guy that said, hey, Denzel can

1257
01:07:53.079 --> 01:07:55.559
do no wrong, and you know, so we might have

1258
01:07:55.599 --> 01:07:58.519
to talk about that, James. We haven't done a lot

1259
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:02.960
of back to the box office this season. However, it

1260
01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:05.320
come November, I think I think if you can get

1261
01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:08.000
yourself out to the theater opening weekend, I'll definitely do

1262
01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:12.000
that and we'll let the listeners know our thoughts whether

1263
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:15.519
we should see it, stream it, or skip it as

1264
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:17.039
as we tend to say.

1265
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:20.039
I hope they proved me wrong. The original is just

1266
01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:22.239
it's one of my top ten favorites of all time,

1267
01:08:22.359 --> 01:08:24.640
so yeah, I may be biased.

1268
01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:28.760
We'll see, we will see. And to those of you

1269
01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:31.479
out there in the jury listening every week following us,

1270
01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:35.520
rating us, and subscribing to our Patreon, much like James Buckley,

1271
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:38.720
we thank you. Courts adjourned