Top 5 Courtroom Movies

0:00 Welcome to this special episode. We're going to take a break from our usual format and talk about our top five picks for courtroom movies. Hello, and welcome back to a film by podcast. I'm Jeff Johnson and I am thrilled to introduce my guest today. He spends his days in a courtroom in the South, bringing the guilty to justice.

0:49 He spends his nights rocking out as the drummer for rock band Hidden Tracks. James Buckley, you are more or less you are a John Grisham character come to life. Yeah. Fortunately, Tom Cruise will never be playing me in any movie. For one thing, I'm too tall. I mean, come on that much. But still, James has appeared numerous times on the show You Keep Me Serious podcast with our friends Jason and Dee, going track by track on some incredible albums, and as one of our Patreon producers, he's been responsible for several great episodes we've done both on our Patreon as well as our regular show. So, James, I definitely thank you for that your suggestions. Every time I get the message from you, like hey, guys, how about this episode, how about this this director, how about this movie? We love it.

1:37 We're happy to jump on it. Well, I look forward every week to this. I mean all your episodes. I'm not exactly a tricky but I even enjoy those. I can tell David guys have a blast with those episodes. So you're well listen, man. I was like a casual fan of Star Trek at Best and the guys at Phaser Set to Stune. They've they're winning me over. So if you're if you're already listening to them, you know it might not be long before you start catching yourself watching certain episodes of television or certain movies, and you'll you'll be among us. James, when when we invited you on, we asked for your top five, but we didn't specify.

2:18 My question is your top five? Is this? Is this what you consider to be the best courtroom movies? Or are you sharing your favorites or is it a combination of the two. It's a combination. It was tough when you first told me the category. I was having a hard time designed to do I want courtroom movies? Do I want movies featuring lawyers as characters? So what ultimately decided to do was I was going over the list in my head. I found the movies that I thought showed at least a slight trace of the realistic side of the legal profession, something that I can actually resonated with me a little, maybe something i'd experienced or someone on you had. And I think we've come up with a pretty fun list here.

2:59 I gotta asked, how long have you been practicing law? Let's see and practicing because obviously we never get it right. I was a member of the LSU PolyAm Abert School of Law class of two thousand and five. I spent a year as a quirk in East and West Flisian appearancers in South Louisiana. East Fortiana is where they had just shot the Dukes of Hazard remake before I came along in downtown Clinton, I think. And while I was in West Flishianna as a court for a judge there, they were shooting that Hillary Swant masterpiece, The Reaping. Yeah, it was fun to walk my dogs at night and see them shooting the film, seeing how the sausage was made, so to speak. Then I spent about nine years working in a couple of civil firms in North Louisiana. Realized that that was just not me and for the past gosh, close to a decade now. It's been nothing but criminal law.

3:55 I spent about six years as a criminal defense lawyer and a public defense in the past gosh, almost four years now, I've been an assistant district attorney and what we call the third Judicial District of North Louisiana, which includes two parishes, our parishes county, same thing as you guys have. So yeah, about eighteen years. Man, I can't believe it. Time flies when you're in a perpetual state of panic. Eighteen years. It sounds like you've been on both sides of the courthouse. I have to imagine you have seen some wild stuff. And I don't want to put you on the spot, but anything come to mind where you're like, man, this was the craziest day in court. I've ever ever had something like that come to mind.

4:38 We had a guy on video being arraigned. He was at a local rehab facility, had got into a fight with another resident. It was minor misdemeanor charges, but we had him on video for arraignment where you basically plead guilty or not guilty. The first guy came up, the judge said, you were charged with disturbing the peace by fighting, and the guy says, without missing a beat, I'm guilty, you're honor. I slapped that guy like Will Smith slapped Chris Rock. I've never seen a judge fight so hard, straight face. Oh wow, that's fantastic. No, there are some other more that I can't go into for either parental ratings reasons or confidentiality reasons. But yeah, you see sometimes it's pretty mundane stuff, but every now and then you'll see some wild and crazy stuff. As Steve Martin would have said, well.

5:27 I'll tell you what before this trap begins. I have a couple more questions for you. Stuff you can you hopefully you can share. James, I want to know when you when you look at these type of these types of films, what do you what would you say is the best performance from an actor or actress in the courthouse. This I'm gonna go one that's not on my list. It was very close. I think the movie Philadelphia Denzel Washington. Yeah, Joe Miller, I think was his character. Denzel is a national treasure anyone. I don't think he's ever been anything I didn't like. Yep. And if we ever were to discuss our best our favorite war movies. You and I can talk about Devil in a Blue Dress. But anyway, I thought his performance and that was really good. He starts off as kind of a sleazy personal injury lawyer.

6:14 He doesn't really have any interest in representing Tom Hanks's character. But by the end of the movie, he's come around a lot and he's developed a real sense of empathy and just and his performance is felt real. He is fantastic in that. I'll tell you you know, because I've been on a Costner kick lately, ever since Horizon came out. If I'm gonna make a choice for best performance, I think I might go Kevin Costner and JFK because that movie is all over the all over the map. But when we when we dial it down to the trial, I just he's amazing. His monologue at the end of that is is incredible. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go Costner. But listen, you can't go wrong with Denzel either. You know, both masters at their craft.

7:00 Now on the flip side, let's talk about UH, talk about film. Let's talk about a film that you would hold in contempt. Uh. Let's talk about the worst courthouse film that you've seen. This isn't necessarily the worst courthouse film, but had one of the worst courthouse segments while you're just cringed and there's a constaner connection. Oh okay in The Untouchables, Yeah, fantastic movie. I love that movie. It's such a great film. But at the end, when they realize that the jury that they're trying to fix has not been fixed. Mhm, the poem's lawyer just without even consulting his client, just stands up, shut we're changing our plague. Guilty. Guilty. That violates so many ethical guidelines. There's no way that could have happened. The guy deserved to be punched by Capone like he was in the film.

7:49 As I say, Capone, uh, you know de Niro just he jumps up and say, what you know? Gives in the business? I remember watching obviously, you know, I know they took a lot of liberties with the with that story, but even at a young age, just like, wait, can can the lawyer make that call? Because it doesn't seem like you can. And that actor was I think williams zarn or Zon or something, and he's in one of my all time favorite movies, La Confidential. But I'll tell you whoever wrote this part this kind was making up the law on the fly. One last question and then we'll get going. How about one courthouse film that we'll say is inadmissible today, And by that I mean a movie that you love but knew it wasn't gonna win the case for you today, Like something you had to leave off your list.

8:35 What do you got by way of introduction, I'm a North Louisiana redneck, so I'm kind of a meat and potatoes guy when he comes to movies. Yeah, I'm going to be giving you some French expressionist classic for nineteen twenty. No for this, it's the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carrey. Okay, Yeah, it touches on some serious parts about how the stress of the job can affect your family life. But honestly, there's not a single lawyer on either on the defense side or the prosecution side who has it weren't to look at a client one time and said stop breaking the law. Ahle. I mean, that's I think universally accepted. If there was one I wanted to have on my list, but I just I left it off. I'm gonna go with the verdict Paul Newman film, and that's one. You know, Actually, I have you to think for seeing that because it's something it's a film I've never seen before. It's always on my list. It's like, I'll get around to it someday.

9:28 Everyone has always talked about how amazing he was in it. And then we start talking about this episode, you know, let's do our top five courtrom movies. And I was like, well, wait, there's a bunch that I haven't seen. So I saw it, I loved it. Have you to think for that, James? But without further ado, let's talk about what is going to make the list. And I imagine there's gonna be a little over overlap here today, so we'll go. We'll go five to two, we'll stop for honorable mentions, and then we'll share our number one picks. Are you ready, counselor ready ready, your honor? All right, well tell me what are you going to enter into evidence? As Exhibit five A. Your honor? At this time, I would ask that the following the offered filed introduced into evidence. That is the nineteen ninety film Presumed Innocent with Harrison Ford.

10:16 Harrison Ford is a brilliant prosecuting attorney. It's gonna be so seduced. By a beautiful woman. Carolyn Palamis was murdered last night, suspected of her murder. Your prints all over the bar glass five feet from where the woman was found dead. She's dead and you're still obsessing from the best selling novel You Killed It? Harrison Ford, How can you think that I could do anything like that? Resumed in situation where we're not sure do we like Harrison Ford? Do we not like him? Well? On all things pop culture, I'm a nineties god, whether it's TV, music or movies. In the nineties was kind of the decade of the surprise twist ending and boy did this have one all the twists and Harrison Ford's here also inspired pretty much how my hair looked all through the nineties. That was more by genetics than actual choice. Yeah, I really enjoyed this film. The American Bar Association has a list of its top twenty five films they think represent the legal career and legal industry, legal field, professional, whatever you want to call it, and this was actually ranked number eleven. It was based on a novel by Scott Turou from like the late eighties, It's been a couple of years in developmental hell before it landed with Warner Brothers. And I just really enjoyed this film. I really enjoyed also discovering that was produced by Alan J. Pacula, whose name will come up later most likely who was a producer or director for The Kill a Mockingbird.

11:43 Yeah, I could see that that one maybe making an appearance on these lists. Presumed us. It's a fantastic film, and if I'm not mistaken, we have this film to think for the new Jake Jonhall series. Presumed us, right, and it like a reboo of the of the film. You know. I saw the ads for that and I was wondering. I mean, with that title and being a legal drama, pretty much has to be I really need to see that now. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it on the list because I've heard nothing but rave reviews about it. So we'll have to check that one out. Meanwhile, Exhibit five B my first choice from nineteen ninety seven, directed by Francis Ford Coppola. We got to have a John Grisham movie on here, and I'm going with The rain Maker.

12:33 I'm asking you the jury, just. Do what you think is right in your heart. If you don't punish great benefit, you could be their next victim. Yeah. Matt Damon plays an underdog lawyer taken on a fraudulent insurance company as his first case. James, I absolutely love this cast everywhere. I can't imagine anyone else in any of the roles. How about how about you. It's been a while since I've seen it, but yeah, I remember I was Matt Damon. I don't think he gets near enough credit for his pure acting ability. The guys.

13:18 It's such an excellent actor. I remember seeing what the talented mister Ripley and thinking, my god, this guy's more than just Ben Affleck's best buddy, extremely stilled actor, and I thought he did a really good job here as a overstressed, underappreciated a lawyer in a pretty tight situation. Damon's fantastic in this. I love the I love the irony here too, because, as you and I know, he lost the lead role in Primal Fear to Edward Norton in nineteen ninety six, and a year later, Norton loses the lead role in The rain Maker to Matt Damon. Poetic justice, I guess but I'll tell you who else loves this one, John Grisham. I found I was looking at I was looking up Grisham stuff. In a two thousand and four interview with Entertainment Weekly, Grisham praised the film, saying, quote to me, it's the best adaptation of any of my books. I love the movie. It's so well done.

14:14 I tend to agree with him. This might be one of one of the better Grisham movies, one of the better adaptations in my opinion. It's great. I'm a big fan of A Time to Kill But I think the question that rain Maker is also a fabulous film. I'm not the biggest Grisham fam I'll go ahead and submit that Devin to try now, okay, but there have been some really great films made from his books. I got a question for you, you know, and forgive me, but I think I think throughout this episode, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna lean a little on your legal expertise. Damon is playing Rudy Baylor. He has just passed the bar, but he doesn't have his license yet, and we get this opening scene like when he's gonna try to try the case Mickey Rourke's the boss right brewisers Stone he leaves town because he's got an arrest warrant, and then Dean stockwell, our judge is like, you know, blows up.

15:12 I mean, get out of here until you get a license. And then they do this crazy thing where John Vood's like, hey, I'll stand for him. You can swear in right now. Is this I mean, is that a possibility or is that just movie? That movie's taking the liberties with it again. No, I think that in some states that is a definite possibility. Some states require you to be a fully licensed attorney before you can go before the bar, but there are other states which incorporate kind of a I guess a mentor model or something. If you've taken the bar, you're waiting for results and someone else is willing to stand for it. I don't think that's a problem in some states. Okay, of course, reminds me when I took the bar. It was in late summer of two thousand and five. We take it. We're supposed to have six weeks for the results. I'm nervous. The six weeks approaches, and a little thing called Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans well, a lot of the people doing well, A lot of the people's doing our grades and evaluating our exams were down there, so a lot of grades were lost, which made another month or so before we found out we passed.

16:12 That was the most effective weight loss program I've ever been on. Yeah, this one's a fantastic one. Danny de Vito playing Dex Schifflet again. Here's a guy who's he's almost like a vincent Gambini. He's he's been practicing for years and years he's but he's still studying for the bar. Has it taken the bar? And he's like, I don't know if I over will He's fantastic in this one. Claire Danes seventeen years old, James. You know, and I know she's playing like a mid twenties, but you know she's she's hot off of a ninety six Romeo and Juliet. I think she's doing an amazing job here too. Yeah, that's gosh. I remember seeing that one of the theaters in my previous career. Now, I really, I really have fond memories of that one.

17:00 James. Let's talk about what you'd like to enter into evidence Exhibit four A. You're a fourth pick. Sar Okay, if the Honorable Judge Johnson will allow at this time, we will offer file submitted to evidence is our fourth selection, the nineteen ninety two classic A Few Good Men's. Marine Corps Ps. In exchange for my transfer off the base, I wanted to provide. You to mention about legal fence line shooting that occurred the night of August the Second. Who the fuck is PFC William T. Santiago? I'm private Santiago is a member of Second with Tom Bravoser. Yeah. Well, apparently he's not very happy down here at Shanger Law because he's written letters to everybody but Santa Claus asking for a transfer, and now he's telling tales about a fence line shooting. Matthew, what polls her?

17:56 You're appalled. Now, let me preface this of what happens in this movie is unrealistic. Yeah, I can't see it really happening in the courtroom, but there are some aspects of it that a lot of lawyers could relate to. And you've got that Aaron Sorkin dialogue, But you know it's real snappy, crisp, and I think this is one of Jack Nicholson's best performances. I've never seen someone who's contempt quite as well as he does when he's on the witness stand. And I was equally fascinated while researching this movie to discover it was based on a real story that blew me away. Wait, well, so it's based on a real code read. Sorkin's sister was in a law student and she was a sign to represent some marines down in Guantanama. You had a marine who had written a letter to a Texas senator I think his name was Alvarado, saying that conditions weren't safe or weren't very good on Guantanamo at the base, and that there had been some illegal activity, including shooting over the line into Cuba, which you know they mentioned in the movie MH. They reported to his commanding officer, and he had no intention of sending the guy to another base. Well, a group of men they called the ten, decided to administer a code read. Thankfully, there was a much happier ending. They take the guy up, wrapped his face up, and we're about to take him out when he started bleeding to the nose and all.

19:21 So they stopped right then called help. They were all faced various charges. Seven of them pled out to lesser charges so they wouldn't be court martial, but three of them went to trial. They fought it, and they were actually convicted of lesser offenses. They were allowed to remain marines, and they were honorably discharged. This would have been in the late eighties, and it came down to it eventually, when the movie came out, five of those guys, five of the ones who were you know, sentenced to lesser offenses at plea bar agains, they filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against Rob Ryner production company. What was that Castle Rock?

20:02 Wow? And yeah, And I don't know whatever came of it. I dug around a while trying to figure out their suit ever witneywhere? And they said it misrepresented their stories and their lives. But what's interesting is there was a guy named David Cox who was one of the three. He went to trial. He didn't join in the lawsuit, he said he didn't want to. But in early nineteen ninety four, Cox disappeared. Some guy was canoeing up in Massachusetts and he saw a foot underneath some brush along the river. It was Cox's body. He'd been shot three times in the side once in the head. It was still wearing was dressed up in like one of his marine sniper jackets. So that's still a cold case up in Massachusetts. When I was reading this, I was thinking, that's sad, and I was also thinking, boy, we have a chance for a few more good men.

20:52 Make a sequel to the sequel, a few more good men. Yeah, I'm with you for that one. This happens to be my fourth pick as well, so I'll jump in here with you. You mentioned court martials, I got I got something fun here for you, James. While doing location scouts for the film, Reiner discovered two things. So first, actual military courtrooms are just playing offices, which means films showing military court martial scenes like Crimson Tide, Top Gun and Iron Eagle, they got it. They get it right, but because Reyner wanted a more cinematic look, they used an empty courthouse. The second discovery he made was Wolfgang Bodison.

21:32 And if that name doesn't doesn't, well you're not so you know who Wolfgang Bodison is. Initially, he was working as a location scout until Reiner notices him and thinks, man, that guy looks like a Marine and then he chooses the cast him as Lance Corporal Harold Dawson. How about that just doing your job and then all of a sudden you become a become an actor. I think that's fantastic for that guy. Well, he stood out so much in that film. I mean, you've got a great cast. You've got Tom Cruise, You've got Kevin Pollock, you've got Jimmy Moore. Yeah, so this is this is nineteen ninety two. Demmy, her asking price is three million dollars. She undercuts herself by a million because she's got a couple other people breathing down her neck. I think it was Michelle Pfeiffer for one. Like they're talking to Michelle Pfeiffer and she's like, hey, you know what I need? I need this job, taking this job. She know, she just she's just coming off of I think Mortal Thoughts, that thriller with Bruce Willis, you know, the Butcher's Wife with Jeff you know, I think it was Jeff Daniels in that one. She's not she doesn't have a good track record at this point, so to me, takes a slash on her own. You know, does does does her own thing.

22:39 You know. It says, hey, i'll take a I'll undercut myself and and I'm glad because I could imagin anyone else playing Joe Gallaway. Truthfully, no, I thought she was great. You know Cruz I left Tom Cruise. I'm gonna go ahead and tell you now, I'm a joke about his height in the movies, But that's another story altogether. I loved him in this one. He starts off he's just young guy who's more interested in doing plea bargains than actually going to court. Yeah, and actually by the end of the movie you can tell he's developed into a whole different person. His approaches chain, But his character was somebody I related to almost from the start. When the guy is when he's playing softball at the beginning, in between swings, he's negotiating a plea deal with another officer and a lot of public defenders.

23:24 That's the name of the game. A lot of times you already have a good idea in your mind how the case is going to end, even before you've seen the facts and talk to your client. And I think Crews got sucked into that trap. And once he was already talking twelve years before he met Dawson and his co defendant, and once you realize there was a lot more to this story, I mean, his whole perspective change. I really enjoyed watching that. Would it surprise you to know that Tom Cruise was not the first Tom to play the role of Lieutenant Daniel caffe It would so you you know, we know this is this by own Sorkin. When Sorkin's play was on broad Way, the role was played by Amedeas himself, Tom Holts. Think about that for a second.

24:08 I just can't picture that, I guess because I never saw the play, and Tom, I thought Cruise did such a good job in this film, was to picture somebody else. We'll have to check with Jason Colvin and seeing the Calvin alternate cinematic universe, how he would cast this film. See if Jason Colvin would would cast Tom Hols. I don't think he will, but if he was going to recast a few good men, I would be curious to see who's played Daniel Caffey. We might find out. You know, we get the Colvin cuts, we get the Colvin Castle a lot lately. So in the meantime, let's let's move on. James Exhibit three A. Exhibit three A. It's one of my all time favorite movies and I originally wanted to place it in the number one or number two spot, but after looking at my criteria, it went down to number three. It's the Lincoln Lawyer from twenty eleven.

24:58 Not a word you get my kid out and Champ Heller, you are one messed up son of a bitch. First you get your client off for assault only to burn him for murder. You don't have enough to charge him with the ntry and murder to ya, and. They've got enough to screw with him. There's no way that DA was letting Roulet walk out of here and that after what just happened. I don't get you, Heller. Whose side are you on? Anyway? I love this movie. There are some parts of it which you know Conley before he became a writer of the Bosh books and everything else, and he spent a lot of time as a court reporter in in California and Florida back during all the cocaine wars of the eighties, so you can tell that he has a pretty good idea how the system works, and that translates well from the pages to the screen, because a lot of the things McConaughey does in this movie just felt right like someone who actually knew how the system worked had watched it and incorporated into his character. The little thing like when he shows up at his first courtroom scene when he asks the bailiff to maybe bump his client up a little quicker in the rotation, and when he talks about mister Green. You know, attorney's around here don't necessarily refer to as mister Green, but if they're still negotiating a client, they'll say, your honor, the client is still trying to retain me, or something like that. But it's the same thing. You're still waiting to get paid go on the line for this person, all the conflicts that came up with representing a guy who he knew well,

26:29 hope I'm not giving away the spoilers, but who needs his spat with some marble things. I just really love this movie. It starts off kind of gives you the feel almost of a seventies film with a soundtrack and a lot of the close up shots. I thought McConaughey did a great job. Several things that stick out, like when the first time when trace Atkins motorcycle gang pulls them over on the side of the interstate to discuss one of their clients. Yeah, Trace may be family. By the way, my wife's make Dame is Atkins and her father, who was an incredible attorney rest his Saul, just a great man, a huge influence on me as well. He was from that part of North Louisiana where Trey Satkins is from, and he always joked that Trace was probably his cousin. But anyway, I digress. When Trace says, this guy's our best farmer, and Matthew McConney says, I don't know, and I don't want to know. That's how a lot of defense guys are. You don't necessarily want to know everything.

27:25 You just want to know what facts the state can prove and how we can get around him when he shows up for arrangements. That was right. That felt right, because you know, arrangement's just guilty or not guilty. You don't have time to go into the facts or the whole story. The bond hearing for his clients, I mean a lot of states do that, but it's a domestic abuse case particularly, they'll have a hearing before they set bond and a lot of times they'll give him ankle monitors or request substance abuse, eve auation and treatment prior to coming back to court. Things like that. I just loved it. You could tell Michael Conley it's been a lot of time in this courtroom and I say, oh, man, I thought McConaughey really slipped it into this role. Well, he was smooth, but he was not greasier. You know, you didn't see anything shady about his character. It's just a real smooth lawyer. And there are a couple of sinister terms like when he comes home and finds his client waiting in his house and his client plays the confidentiality card, and that's accurate. If a lawyer finds out his client is guilty, I mean, there's very limited circumstances where he can report that to police.

28:28 So there's no loopholes with that. There are two loopholes, like if you find out if your client is trying to use your legal services in an effort to carry out in another crime, then yeah, you can report that in most cases. Also, if you know that your client is about to do something, you have a reasonable suspicion that's going to result in somebody else getting hurt, then you can report that. But yeah, a lot of times it's pretty fairly ironclad. I just see that blows my mind because we grew up on these television shows, in these movies that have you know, always put the whole thing out there, you know, uh, attorney client privilege. And I've always thought like, well, what you know, if if a guy confesses to be in the Zodiac Killer, you're telling me there's no way for his his attorney to to share that like it, I don't you know, it blows mind. You're saying that that's that's that's accurate, that's the real deal.

29:23 Ye can't believe it, man, or She'll notice at the end, after McConaughey has gone through the whole trial experience with his client, he quits, he's fired, he's discharged, and things take another interesting turn at that time when it wasn't Michael Perrey shows up. That was that was, by the way, that was one of the elements of this movie that bothered me. Michael Perray was so antagonistic toward Mickey Harror. Yeah, when I was on the defense side and now on the other side, we deal with law enforcement. So much. It's like a job. They don't take it personally. They very rarely take it personally. We don't take it personally, and usually outside of the courtroom we have pretty good relationship. But other than that, I thought that maybe was great.

30:04 I gotta be honest with you. You and I have been We've been circling this episode for quite a while, you know, and in that time we've disclosed quite a bit of information. We've talked. We've talked about a lot of these movies, and in the past you had brought up Lincoln Lawyer quite a bit. So I'm surprised that it only ranks as high as three. But I'm also glad because, uh, I'm going to offer into evidence Exhibit three B. My choice happens to be the other Matthew McConaughey lawyer film you already mentioned it, James nineteen ninety six, A Time to Kill, directed by Joel Schumacher. An innocent child now when't had to protect an outraged father.

30:48 He's taking justice out of your hands. Two lawyers fighting for justice. From the author of the firm and the client comes a time Audiences will always remember a riveting thriller. The best Grisham yet to go. It now an artist for nothing, Sandra Bullock, Samuel L. Jackson, Matthew McConaughey, Kevin Stacy, Fuck time to kill. We got McConaughey. He's a free spirited lawyer in Mississippi defending Samuel Jackson's vengeful father character accused of killing two white men who raped his ten year old daughter. I'll join in that stipulation. It's an amazing movie. It's it's it's it's incredible. Don't be surprised if that doesn't show up on our limited nineteen ninety six series one way or another. But McConaughey's he's electrifying, he's he's so, he's just so engaging, like you want to believe in him, you want to you want to hang out with him, you want to have you want to have crawfish and beer with him at that place. He's he's having a lot of fun here. And it blows my mind that he almost doesn't get the role because this is nineteen ninety six. McConaughey hadn't done a whole lot, and it's only after Schumacher offers the lead role to Val Kilmer.

32:00 While they were working on Batman Forever in nineteen ninety five. You know, Kilmer declines the offer based on their strained working relationship, and McConaughey, who had initially MI understanding is he initially goes into uh to read for Freddy Cobb, who played who's played by Keith for Sutlin. He doesn't feel good about that that role and he he kind of lobbies Schuemaker says, hey, man, give me a chance. Shoemaker says, I'll tell you what I'll I'll give you an audition. Let's let's see what you got, and he uh. He makes Schumacher a believer. The guys in both roles, whether it's Mickey Harror or in Time to Kill, McConaughey just, I don't know, it's charisma. There's something about his performance. It just sucks you in.

32:41 I loved it. I'll tell you there's a co star that that sometimes gets mentioned when we're talking about Time to Kill and I'm actually talking about Sweat because you know, you gotta remember this is John Grisham's first novel, and upon seeing the film for the first time, he was quoted as saying, doesn't Joel Schumacher know that they have air conditioning in Mississippi. This is this is like the sweatiest film ever man. And I mean I dig it, Like Ashley Judd is, she's hotter than the a firecracker on the fourth of July. To quote Max Katie Matthew mcconaughead, I mean everyone is just they're sweaty down there in Mississippi.

33:21 Yeah, we're right there beside him. And I spent a lot of time in rural courtrooms all over the state, and yeah, they all have air conditioning. James, I gotta ask, how often you know A Time to Kill has some great moments where someone brings in an expert witness to give testimony, and then whether it's whether it doesn't matter which side of the that we're on, the other lawyer has some dirt, tears, the tears the guy down, and all of a sudden, it's like, we're not gonna you know, you know, Jerry, disregard the testimony. There is that Is that something that you've seen in uh, in your time in the courthouse.

34:05 More so in my years when I was working for civil law firms. Mm hmmm. A lot of personal injury or medical malpractice cases, both sides will try to present experts. This is what we'll We'll discuss this a little more later, but there's a Supreme Court decision of Dull Bear d A U B. E. R. Team, which basically sets the criteria for determining someone's expertise, and both sides get to go at them. You get to grill them and find out if your credentials stand up, and it ultimately comes down to the judge making that decision. But yeah, that's not unusual. I see again. I watch these movies and I just think, ah, this is just you know, they're they're they're taking a lot of liberties because it doesn't you're not gonna see this in the court uh court of law. But we you know, we have our own expert right here. You're you're telling us like, yeah, don't don't be surprised if you see that happen, if you're if you're there, that's that.

34:56 It's fascinating to me, man, It honestly is very fascinating to me. But I enjoy it because a lot of times, you know, movies condensed things the timelines considerably, or you have things like law and Order where everything's over and done within forty minutes. Yeah, sometimes some actual, true legal, some true legal elements will surface in some of these movies. Always appreciate seeing that. Well. And then another thing, and this is another reason I you know, that's another thing I love about A Time to Kill. Samuel Jackson is clearly guilty. He murders two guys in front of everybody, and because of the emotions that are that are at play here, he's acquitted. Like, you know, is this one of those things where like, uh, justice, you know, like, yeah, we got we have our laws, but sometimes justice has to prevail regardless.

35:49 Yeah, there's a concept called jury nullification, where if the jurors believe strongly enough in something, they can ignore some of the elements of the crime that's been presented to them and reach a decision that might not have seemed obvious, like kind of what they did here. Okay. That makes me happy though, because I you know, I don't know what father isn't gonna take Carl Lee's stance and go after some you know, some vigilanta justice. But it makes me happy to know that that's you know, it's possibility out there. Well, speaking as another father, Yeah, totally agree. So then you agree that yes, they deserve to die, and you hope they burn in.

36:29 Hell allegedly off the record. Yeah, yeah, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. We're going to take a short recess to hear from some of our sponsors and we'll be right back. We're getting to it, James. Let's talk exhibit number two. What do you got for me? As I said this one, the top three were tough for me. For number two, I have them film in nineteen ninety three, comedy classic, my cousin Vinnie. When you viewed the defendants walking from their car into the sack of SuDS, what angle was your point of view? They was kind of welcomed toward me when they entered the Star.

37:12 And when they left, what angle was your point of view? It was kind of walking away from me. So would you say you got a better shot at him going in and not so much coming out? You could say that, I did say that. Would you say that? Yeah? Is it possible to two utes to what? What was that word? What word to what? What did you say? Utes? Yeah? Two utes? What is a ute? I mean? This movie is a comedy classic. There are so many funny things about this from you know, Joe Peshy's wig. He had to been pushing fifty at this time.

37:53 She always laugh when I see his hair. He's forty nine. You're right, he's pushing fifty. But there's in them in This film was so well done. I read somewhere that the screenwriter originally based of any Joe Pesty's character on Sam Kennison, So that explained some of his the way he treats people, which that joided immensely. That explains a lot, and it also explains something that I discovered and Jay again, listen, man, if we were trying to case together, I think I think we'd be dynamite because we're we're in sync here. This also is my number two and you're talking about Kennison. This movie begins as a starring vehicle for Andrew dice Clay when he's a whoa yeah. It was in his twenty fourteen autobiography called The Filthy Truth, he says, after the Adventures of Ford Fahlane bombed at the box office in nineteen ninety, Fox drops him, I mean they drop him flat. And he even goes on to say, and I'm quoting him here in from his book, if I wasn't going to do it. To have Joe Pesci played the role was incredible.

39:02 I don't get mad at that stuff. That's show business. Can you imagine that, though Dickery Rocket that has me on his docket? Whoa, oh man? The movie doesn't work with Dice. I loved, I was. I was always a fan of Dice back in the day. But I don't think this movie works with him now. I think Peschi's role was the Italian, the Italian tough guy who's gonna completely fish out of water down South. I don't think anyone could have handled as well as he did. No, this movie has so many it was based I think Dale Lonner maybe in the screenwriter had read a story about a lawyer who finally passed the bar on his thirteenth to ten. He thought that'd make a great idea for a story. He also spent some time down south where he got stuck in the mud.

39:51 He met Southern District attorney and had a you know, some long talks with him. I think all that was incorporated in the final screenplay. And then you get who is the director? Jonathan Lynn? Jonathan Lynn. He graduated law school in Cambridge over in Mary Old England and said he wanted everything to be as legally accurate as it could be. And when you watch this film, I mean, there are law schools which have classes which mentioned when introduction of evidence and experts in all how well this movie handled it. There's a judge, a federal judge from up in South Carolina, who wrote a blog post. I looked it up today. It's called ten things Every Trial Lawyer could learn from Vincent LaGuardia Gambini, and I read it today. That should be required reading for every lawyer out there. Man. He uses specific examples of things Vinnie did, like changing his technique for different witnesses, how to introduce experts. I mean, there's so many great things in this movie. The judge fred Wynn, you know, probably his last role.

40:53 I believe this was the final role that he that he played. He's awesome. Though he's awesome. He's like a lot of the old school lawyers. They're really picky about decorum in the court. And I understand if you behave like Vinnie did early on, you're gonna get contempt. I mentioned earlier, I was a court for a judge in the town of Saint Francisville and West Filichiana Parish, which is where Angola State Prison is located. By the way, It's another story, but we were in court. I was sitting beside the judges bench. A guy from out of town was that came in late, barely walks in the door and his cell phone rings and he picks it up and answers it in the courtroom. This judge did not hesitate before putting that man in contempt and having the bailiff take him off and put him in the holding cell to can pay for get a few hundred dollars. Wow. Yeah, they do take it seriously.

41:44 But again it's all the little things. His office looked just like every judge's office. I've ever been in papers everywhere, law books filling the bookcase behind him. But you tell you the attention of detail. You may remember the part where the judge is telling Vinnie how important procedure is to him. The book he gave him. Forget the exact title of it. It's the Alabama Criminal Procedure Book and it was if you freeze frame it you can see it says by Hu Maddics. Hu Matics was the longest one of the longest serving justices on the Alabama Supreme Court from nineteen sixty nine to two thousand and one. He wrote over fifteen hundred opinions and was evident one of the gurus for criminal procedures. So you know that was that wasn't just a random book they gave Vinnie.

42:29 That was the real deal. I'll tell you one uh one actor that doesn't get near enough recognition for my cousin Vinnie, and I honestly I think he steals the show is Austin Pendleton as the stuttering public defender. He originally turned the part down because he has an actual stutter in real life, and he only did the He only did this movie as a favor to Jonathan Lynn because they happened to buddies. I laughed so hard at that. But it also you sympathize for the guy. I mean, particularly in rural areas like this town, the public defenders are so burdened down.

43:11 They have so many cases they barely know which one's coming up next. And so yeah, I understand the stress. I mean, I would have probably resulted in me stuttering as well being thrown into a capital murder trial right off the bat. After that brilliant display that he puts on. I love that he's still the character, still has the confidence at the end and just go no more questions. He's fantastic. I'll say something. Yeah, I'll tell you something that really caught me by surprise. And actually I learned this we're doing. We did a Jonathan Lynn episode not too long ago. They had a sequel to My Cousin Vinny in the works, and granted, this movie works on multiple levels, but one of the things that works really well for it is it's that classic fish out of Water story. You know you mentioned Lynn, you know, was at Cambridge. The idea was going to be that he Vinnie finds himself in Britain trying a case, and they were trying to line up the schedules. Marissa Tomy is on board. They kind of drag their feet a little bit. She backs out of the production. It goes through several rewrites and then no, Marissa Tomey oscar winner for My Cousin Vinnie, no movie, and it goes, uh, you know, it goes in admissible, as you guys like to say, But imagine that, Imagine that My Cousin Vinny sequel.

44:40 Was there ever anybody cuter than Marissa Tomey was in this movie. No, not at all, you can't. You know, she's she's amazing, she is, you know, she she absolutely win. You know, she absolutely deserves the Oscar that she wins for her role as Miss Mona. Lisa Vito, I just love My wife will sometimes still say yeah, you blend if I'm questioning, yeah, not team this movie. And again it goes down to all the little details that got right during the raiment. For Vinnie's clients, they start trying to tell the whole story, and fred Wynn stamps down that quickly said, now this is a raiment.

45:20 This is not time to discuss the facts. Is this guilty or not guilty? A lot of times you will see people who do want to go into the story in the facts wrapped in No, that is not the time or place for that. I love the idea. You know, we're talking about my cousin, Vinnie, and this is basically Vinnie's first case, and fred Wynn is just hammer hammering on him the entire time. But you know, then when you look back at a movie like The rain Maker, you know, Matt Damon it's his first big case. And meanwhile, Danny Glover's kind of helping him along, you know, And I love that. I love that. I love the contrast there. When I was watching a bunch of these movies recently, I was like, man, I would have to get Danny Glover try my case. Not so sure about Fred Winn. Yeah, I'd be a little, a little intimidated by Fred Winn. I know we didn't do this on the other other choices, James, but let's let's talk your favorite moment from my cousin, Vinnie. Do you have a whether it's your favorite moment, the funniest moment.

46:18 Well, there are lots of funny moments, but my favorite moment and I guess this is just the legal side of my brain. When he introduces moment Lisa as his expert. Okay, Jim Trotter the district attorney, which I thought Lane Smith did a great job. It's Smith's fantastic and I related to that character a lot. But Lane Smith has just spent all this time introducing his expert, going over all his credentials. And then Vinnie gets up there, brings his fiance, who is not happy with him in the slightest to introduce his mechanics. What's funny is man, this was uh, I guess they're predicting the future. Up until that time, A lot of times when he had experts, all guys with a bunch of letters after their name PhD. All this. Well, Mona Lisa gets up there and during the witness the expert verification process, she proves that she has just as much knowledge as some guy with the PhD. In nineteen ninety nine, there was a US Supreme Court case called Koombra Tire versus Carmichael, and that redefined the whole standard for bringing experts. It allowed you could have a layperson to come in as an expert if you established their credentials.

47:28 And this movie saw that one come in six years in advance. How about that. I can't I can't think of anyone that would be more of an expert than Mona Lisa detail when it comes to auto mechanics. I think her posit traction. Yeah, I think for me and you like, you're right, man, This movie is just it's packed with comedic moments. But I would have to go with the biological clock scene. Well, I hate to bring it up because I know you got enough pressure on you already, but we agreed to get married as soon as you won your first case. Meanwhile, ten years later, my niece, the daughter of my sister, is getting married. My biological clock is taking like this, and the way this case is going, I ain't never getting married.

48:15 Beasaid, I don't need this. I swear to God, I do not need this right now. Okay, I got a judge that's just aching to throw me in jail, an idiot who wants to fight me for two hundred dollars, slaughtered pigs, giant loud whistles. I ain't slept in five days. I got no money, a dress code problem, and a little murder case which in the balance holds the lives of pooh innocent kids. Not to mention your. Biological clock, my career, your life, a marriage, and let me see what else can we pile on? Is there any more shit we could pile on to the top of the outcome of this case?

48:57 Is it possible. It was a bad time to bring it up. I'll tell you another funny. You know you didn't mention it, and it's not it's I don't think it's the funniest scene, but it's it definitely is a funny scene. Is the moment when Vinnie goes to meet uh, you know, meet the boys in prison, and there's that there's that miscommunication. Gratitude will not be out of line. Yeah, I can't believe this, but Jonathan Lynn almost cut that scene. And the reason for it is because he is such a he was such a stickler to details and making this an authentic trial. He pointed out. He's like, you know what, that would never happen. They would never put the he would never have access to the prison.

49:43 He would meet them in like an interview room. And he almost cuts it just on that technicality until the editors were like, dude, this is a funny moment. You're gonna You're not gonna get this back, so you got to keep it. And he's like, he's all right, I'll keep it in and. Accurate as far as this goes. That's accurate. But man, that taking that scene out would have reduced the comedy value so much. It's so funny. I agree with you. Well, I'll tell you what that we listen, we have gone through four of our picks here. I know we talked about it at the beginning. We said, uh, we'll take a break for some honorable mentions. But here's the here's the kicker. I'm not going to offer any honorable mentions. James, You're not going to offer any honorable mentions, but we will. Here from the the honorable James D.

50:36 Graves of the show You Can't Be Serious Podcast. He happens to practice law too, and I thought who better to uh to hear honorable mentions from than James D. Graves. All rise for the Honorable James D. Graves. Honorable. All right, you all maybe seated. We have been presented with defendants exhibits five through four and plintiffs exhibits five through four, and everyone is anxious to hear each party's exhibit number one. But before we do, thank you guys very much for having me in to give you my top five list. I really appreciate getting to see a sneak preview of your lists because I.

51:21 Was able to eliminate some of mine. I was having a little trouble getting it down to just five. But without further ado, here are my top five courtroom movies. Number five. How could I, as a man from the Shirley You Can't Be Serious Podcast, pick any movie that's not an eighties movie for my first choice out of the box, so of course I pick David Kelly's first big movie from the hip. Here we have not one, but two fantastic courtroom scenes, one a bit of a show and another lay on an old joke or urban legend if you will, but I don't want to give away too much.

52:06 Stars Jed Nelson as young Stormy, the attorney he goes from bender to be and Stormy. It was directed by our friend Bob Clark from a Christmas story. So Bob Clark's son is having an auction at his school and Bob Clark offers as a prize to the highest bidder a behind the scenes peak at this particular movie. But as it turns out, he makes the winning family extras in the movie, so that's pretty cool. David Kelly, of course a big hero and influence in me and my decision to become a lawyer. And that brings me to my exhibit. For my number four pick, we're going back to nineteen fifty seven's Witness for the Prosecution. It is a Billy Wilder directed and written piece based on the story by Agatha Christie, starring Tyrone Power, Marlena Dietrich, and Charles Lawton. This one has a fantastic twist ending and is one for the ages, one of the highest IMDb ranked movies in existence, and a fantastic movie. I encourage everybody to check it out.

53:16 Now for my exhibit. Number three, for which I am jumping ahead fifty years from Witness for the Prosecution all the way up to two thousand and seven for a movie called Fracture. The stars Anthony Hopkins and Ryan Gosling, and they are both at their finest. In this movie. This isn't a who done it? This isn't even a why done it? This is a how is he going to get away with this? Because just when you think there's no chance that he will, he just might do it. Great movie. I encourage everybody to watch it. I don't think it's on a lot of people's radar, but it is a fantastic movie, all right. Coming in for exhibit number two, we have Jim Carrey coming in as one of the greatest roles I've seen him play a liar, I mean lawyer. Sorry, this movie is nineteen ninety seven's Liar Liar. I literally watched this one two nights ago with my daughter because this list was in my head and I thought, I need to check this one out.

54:27 And since you guys just both knocked cousin Vinny off of my list, I needed another comedy to come in. But this is well worthy, great great comedy and a fantastic courtroom scene featuring Missus Jennifer Tilly herself. Great movie. Everybody should go watch it. Now we are to my number one pick, and as it turns out, I got to have a sneak preview of what you guys are picking for your number one and I will tell you all of those movies were on my list, but since you had them, I don't want to spoil anything, and I definitely have one that was going to fit finish above those. My final number one pick, Exhibit number one, I give you Inherit the Wind, originally a play based on the true case nineteen twenty five Scopes Monkey Trials, where a teacher was convicted of a crime for teaching evolution in his class, and as a result, one of the most famous, if not the most famous attorney in the country came to defend him, which then prompted the town to hire the second most famous attorney in the country as a special prosecutor. This was Powerhouse versus Powerhouse.

55:49 It was national news. This was the biggest event of nineteen twenty five. It became a play, which then became a movie in nineteen sixty, starring Spencer Tracy, Frederick Marsh, Gene Kelly, Dick York Yes be Witched Dick York as the teacher, and Harry Morgan from Mash as the judge and good Old Claude Aikins from BJ and the Bear as Reverend Jeremiah. This movie is my number one pick because back in the year nineteen ninety eight, I happen to catch a stage production of this play and it's what inspired me to become an attorney. So how could I possibly pick any other movie than this movie. Guys, thank you for letting me come on and do This been a fun ride and I'm so excited for everyone to hear what your number one picks are. Court will be in recess until such time as the parties are ready to present their final arguments.

56:55 Well, there you have it. James D. Graves from the Surely You Can Be Serious Podcast come in with some excellent picks. Fracture for one, one of my favorites. Love Fracture and James, We thank you for taking the time to pass judgment on this episode and offer up your honorable mentions. All right, it is time we have reached the number one spot, the number one picks. Mister Buckley, your last piece of evidence that you're going to offer Exhibit one A. What is your top pick? If I had my drum set setup right now, I'd give you a drum roll.

57:38 I might put one in. Hey, this I mentioned the earlier the American Bar Association list of top twenty five legal films. My cousin Vinnie was number three, but this movie is number one. Nineteen sixty two is to Kill a Mockingbird? How old are you when you got your first gun? After thirteen fourteen? I remember when my daddy gave me that gun. He told me that I should never pointed anything in the house, and that he'd read i'd shooted tin cans in the backyard. But he said that sooner or later you supposed the temptation to go after birds, it'd be too much, and that I could shoot all of the blue jays I wanted if I could hit them, to remember it was a sin to kill a mocking bird.

58:25 Hum Well, I reckon because mocking birds don't do anything but make music for us to enjoy. This movie has probably inspired more people to become lawyers than pretty much anything else. I read the book when I was in the eighth grade, and I told my mom how much I loved it, and she said, oh, you should see the movie. Of course, this being the early eighties, I had to wait a while if I could track it down to the local VHS place, But when I finally did see the movie, it became a perpetual favorite. I mean, you've got a coming of age story from the point of view Scout watching her dad. I mean, with an incredible performance from Gregor Repeck. I mean, it's just such an amazing performance Atticus Finch defending Tom Robinson.

59:10 He comes across as such a dignified, honorable man, and even though the times and the culture of the times were against him, he still put everything on the line to represent a man that most people were ready just to ship off to the prison at the time. And I remember reading with the author Harper Lee said that this movie would not have worked without Gregory Peck that basically played himself. I was around lawyers a lot coming up. My mom was a paralegal for lawyers. I was always in around courthouses and her office. But that was the first of the book and Ben the movie with the first things that make me to think that you know you hear a lot of lawyer jokes, and today were bombarded by personal injury billboard attorneys all over the interstate.

59:53 But Atticus showed that you could be an upstanding human being and try your best to do the right thing as a lawyer, and that just it inspired me, and I didn't think so much about it until years later when I was in law school. Some students are doing a documentary on To Kill Mockingbird, and they asked me if I wanted to talk, so I rambled for a few minutes. When I was talking to him, I realized that that movie really had been a big initial inspiration that I guess ultimately got me where I am today. I'll tell you another person right for the role. It's incredible because I think he's only on screen for maybe seven or eight minutes. We get a very young Robert Duvall playing bou Radley. Doesn't even speak. It's amazing, and.

1:00:37 I loved how bou Radley had been made out to be some sort of neighborhood boogieman. Oh yeah, you know, I'm reading the book the first time. I'm terrified of bou Radley and then until you see who he is. That was Deval's first film. Yep. Oh wow, that's a hell of a way to start your career. I think. So, yeah, this is this is a situation, James. I could be wrong, but I don't think they've ever done a remake of this film, and I hope that they never do, because I just couldn't imagine. You know, there's certain classics that you just don't touch. I feel To Kill a Mockingbird is one of them. Yeah, some movies you can see you need to update it, but movies like this, I mean, it's perfection right out the gate. There's no need to go back and alter anything.

1:01:22 But I mean, this movie the accolades. A got what three Academy Awards were, including Best Actor for peck Yep. In nineteen ninety five, the Library of Congress declared the movie in national treasure and put in its archives. Two thousand and three, the American Film ins that you Atticus is the number one greatest hero of the twentieth century. So, I mean, for a book written in nineteen sixty it's still resonating today. It absolutely is. I gotta tell you, man, we've been in sync this whole episode. And I have a different choice for my number one. But I noticed, you know, like, look at your list, looking at my list, a lot of modern films, a lot of a lot of contemporary films that we've we've we've chose, and then your big number one draw was to kill a mockingbird. I don't you know. I don't know if I get away with this in in your Court, But I've been I've been zigging this whole episode. I'm about to zag my number one.

1:02:19 Nineteen fifty seven, twelve Angry Men. Was Buddy not guilty? One? Right? Eleven guilty one? Not guilty? Well, now we know where we are. Oh boy, there's always one. Oh what are we doing now? I guess we talk? Oh boy, you really think he's innocent? I don't know. Directed by Cidy Lamette in his feature directorial debut. And look, technically we're not inside the courtroom, but technically we are in the court. In the courthouse. You know, the entire film, save for I think three minutes, is shot inside a confining jury room measuring sixteen by twenty four and James.

1:03:10 When you watch it, you can feel the heat, you can feel the claustrophobia, just just boiling to the surface. Not always it my number one pick for courtroom film. This is a I would say this is definitely on my top ten of all time. It's just amazing, you know, and you know, I know some of our listeners might not have seen it. You know when sometimes when we talk about older films, we get people going, I don't know if I've seen that one. The jury in a New York City murder trial becomes increasingly agitated by a single member played by Henry Fonda, whose uncertainty of the outcome forces them to carefully consider the evidence before rendering a speedy verdict. Absolutely amazing film, mesmerizing film. I don't I don't know, for my money, you don't do better than an ensemble cast like this.

1:03:59 The jury, I mean, it's not the courtroom, but the jury room, the final deliberations, that's the culmination of everything's going before. So you know, it's incredibly ripe for drama. I'm surprised there haven't been more movies made about that. Mm hmm. That's when when I was discussing with my family, my daughter watched this in a class in school last year, and that's that was her first suggestion when I was mentioning best court room or legal films. Yeah, I said, I did have that one. It's just been so long since I've seen it, but I watched it in a film appreciation class a long time ago. But yeah, I mean the tension, the fact that one juror is delaying all these people from carrying on with their lives. Yeah, fantastic film, excellent choice, you know.

1:04:42 And here's the thing, like you talked about, you know, she watched it for school. This film is routinely shown in business schools and workshops to illustrate team dynamics and conflict resolution. And I, you know, I don't know about you, but I've been with my career, I've been in many you know, uh, team building events and con you know, conflict resolution and how to work together. And this movie is the epitome of a group of strangers at odds with each other, but then learning to come together and and and working together to get the to get the right the right outcome. I absolutely love it, man, Henry Fonda. I know he uh, he stars in this movie. He also produces this. I think United Artists asked him to, you know, hey, we want to we will put this one out there. He's the one that hires Sidney Lamette for it. And it's just a I don't know, how do you how do you get a cast like this?

1:05:35 Henry Fonda, Lee J. Cobb, Martin Balsom, E. G. Marshall, Jack Klugman. I mean, it's a it's a who's who of a of classic talent here, I think, And it's amazing. Yeah, you wouldn't think just a group of strangers in a room for a while could make for such drama. But wow, yeah, incredible. Yeah, this one, this one is tense from the get go right up to the end. Cob. I don't know how Cobb doesn't win the you know, the Academy Award for this one. His breakdown at the end, and you know, guy's been he's been a jerk the whole the whole movie. And then once you realize how he's projecting his own emotional trauma into the into the case, all of a sudden, it's like, you know what, I feel bad for this guy.

1:06:24 He's breaking my heart A little bit, but fantastic film. I've talked to a few jurors after trials. In some cases, I mean, it's easy, the evidence is that incontrovertible. But in some cases, particularly murdered, when you were replacing such a stress on these people, their decision will result. I mean that determination of what happens to someone else's life. And I think, in a microcuse of this movie pretty much perfectly represented. That I'm inclined to agree with you, man, I think that's going about do it for us? Uh, listeners, what did you think of our top five choices for courtroom movies? Which ones made your list? Which ones did we miss? You can offer your expert testimony or hold us in contempt at www dot a film bypodcast dot com, email us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com, or hit us up on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x Information. I'd like to thank my guest James Buckley for joining me today to share his top five courtroom movies and his legal expertise. James, this was a blast. I'm glad we finally cleared the dockets to get this one done. I can't thank you enough, sir, it's been.

1:07:38 An absolute pleasure. Jeff. I'm glad that we're finally able to do it, and hey, let's do it again. Sometimes maybe we can discuss why there does not need to be a sequel to Gladiator. That's a hot take all of a sudden, man, and this coming from the guy that said, hey, Denzel can do no wrong, and you know, so we might have to talk about that, James. We haven't done a lot of back to the box office this season. However, it come November, I think I think if you can get yourself out to the theater opening weekend, I'll definitely do that and we'll let the listeners know our thoughts whether we should see it, stream it, or skip it as as we tend to say. I hope they proved me wrong. The original is just it's one of my top ten favorites of all time, so yeah, I may be biased.

1:08:25 We'll see, we will see. And to those of you out there in the jury listening every week following us, rating us, and subscribing to our Patreon, much like James Buckley, we thank you. Courts adjourned