Zack Snyder - Sucker Punch

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You are listening to the film by
podcast. We are streaming free everywhere.

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I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Brad Koze. As a wise man once said,

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if you don't stand for something,
you will fall for anything. Today,

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we're gonna talk about a film by
Zack Snyder is often overlooked, very underrated,

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twenty eleven epic fantasy adventure Sucker Punch. Okay, Brad, so listen.

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You and I both have been Zack
Snyder fans since the beginning. Yeah,

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since the Dawn of the Dead remake. Yeah. So this is one

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of his most divisive films. I
think partly because people, I think some

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people don't understand it. Some people
just don't like it. Brad, you

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recently watched this movie for the first
time. Correct, Yeah, And this

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is also, like you said at
first, for it not being an adaptation

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of any other type of source material. You know, this is just from

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the mind of Zack Snyder. And
like I said, I watched it,

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and what I got out of it
was a very it's what seemed to me

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an experimental art film that Zack Snyder
was was kind of playing with the uh

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uh, you know, duality of
realities, and you know things like that.

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It was it was very experimental,
I felt like and I feel like

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he was trying a lot of stuff
with this movie. So yeah, it's

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his story. He co wrote it, directed it, produced it. This

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is a pure Zack Snyder project.
But did you like it? Because I

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guess my main question. The thing
is I did like it, and it

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took. Like I said, it
is a movie that it takes about twenty

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to thirty minutes for you to realize
do I like this? Do I know

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what it is? Do I accept
what it is? And that's the thing.

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A lot of people don't really want
to, I think, accept what

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this movie is. And they kind
of wanted to be like, no,

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I don't like that, just you
know, just go regular mainstream, and

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he doesn't. And that's the thing
I liked about it that it was done

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in a no rules type of thing. You know, when you're doing fantasy,

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you know you can bend the rules
of reality and physics and stuff and

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not ask questions. So let's talk
about I know a lot of people often

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wonder what this movie is about.
I'll tell you my take, and I

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did as well. I thought it
was some source material, whether it be

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a book, a comic book,
graphic novel. I really did think it

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was, and I was completely wrong. Well, okay, so my take

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on it. Basically, for those
listening that haven't seen the movie, this

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is the story about a young young
woman who is institutionalized and has a very

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short window of time to do something
with her life. And someone once told

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me it's kind of like one flew
over the Matrix. You know, you've

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got these these characters trapped in an
asylum, but the rules of reality are

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kind of bent. For me,
I think this movie takes place on three

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levels. Yes, you know,
so you've got it was three okay,

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Yeah, So for me, you've
got reality and that's represented by the asylum

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where the characters are. Level two, you've got Baby's imagination, which is

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the brothel, and in level three, the deepest level is Baby's dream,

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Yes, which is the fantasy journey
to freedom as Scott Glenn's character what calls

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it movie. So I definitely want
to get into these three levels. But

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before we do that, anything you
want to cover as far as like a

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characters or some of the some of
the actors. Yeah, I mean this

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is a an assortment of characters.
This is uh Oscar Isaac shows up in

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this, you know, in one
of his very earlier films, looking very

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young, especially when he doesn't have
this mustache. You know, it took

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me a minute to think. I
was like, God, that guy looks

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like, Oh it is Oscar Isaac, and I love Carla. I believe

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it's pronounced gu Genio Gino. She's
been kind of taken off a lot with

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some of the Mike Flannagan stuff for
working like Stephen King's Gerald's Game, which

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Flanning and directed in the Blind manner
and Hill House stuff, and uh,

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you know previously had worked with Snyder
on Watchman. And you know, you

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get this kind of eclectic female casts
that are almost a branch of one person.

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You know, it's there. They
all kind of have the same goal.

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And like you said, the premise
of the movie pretty simple. You're

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you're you're put into in a sane
asylum, you know, falsely, but

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you basically got to get out.
Now, if you're gonna do that story

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that we've seen a thousand times,
you better make it different and somehow,

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and what Zack Snyer does is says, all right, I'm going to make

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this very simple story stunningly visual,
which which he achieves on that love.

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So I'll tell you a couple a
couple other characters that you would you don't

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really think about obviously, And I'm
not talking about John Hamm or Scott Glenn.

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We'll get to them in a minute. It the just the visual cinematography,

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you know. Oh yes, his
now amazing. It looks his dark

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lighting, his his effort to get
out grime in between tiles, you know,

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like on the wall, and it's
like he makes it look like like

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you can smell it, you can
taste it, you can hear the dripping

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of the terrible pipes. It's like
in a very well done in that aspect

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ration. Well aside from just what
you see, uh yeah, your eyes

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get a really nice treat with this
movie, but your ears. I think

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the music is almost like a character
in this movie, because without the music

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in this I mean, this soundtrack
is unbelievably awesome. Yeah, and just

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the the his ability to use music
to propel the story forward, to draw

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you into certain details. I absolutely
love the music in this. Yeah,

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well you you compared, and a
lot of people have done the same.

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The one flew over the Cuckoo's Nests
with the Matrix. Now, two other

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films that I think also meshin there
is Mulan Rouge with the way that he

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uses the music, you know,
pre existing songs, you know, you

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know, updated versions of them,
but he uses them in the story,

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you know, almost like a music
video type of you know it almost the

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movie could almost be one really long
music video in some way. And another

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film that mixes with that is Terry
Gilliams Brazil, where you know, this

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world of fantasy and reality you don't
know of is existing in this guy's head.

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So and it's funny that I looked
up that Zack Snyder is actually a

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big fan of Brazil, and so
I feel like this is, like you

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said, Cucko's Nest, Matrix,
Mulan Rouge, Brazil all combined together into

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this giant film with others at it
as well. So you talked about Mulan

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Rouge. Now did you happen to
watch the extended cut of the movie or

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did you see like the theatrical cut? Do you happen to know? I

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watched the theatrical cut because I always
do want to do a compare and contrast,

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you know, every once in a
while, the theatrical is better.

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I would have liked to eventually see
the extend Now is the extended cut?

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R? Yeah, it's it's it's
like a director's cut. It's got seventeen

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extra minutes in it. The reason
I'm asking is we're talking about the music

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in the theatrical cut, because I
don't remember the you know, seeing it,

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you know back then. But the
music number that Oscar Isaac and Carla

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Gugino do Love is a Drug?
Is that? Did you see that?

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I do not believe that was in
it. Oh, you missed one of

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the coolest moments of the movie.
Then, So as we get into Babies,

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her imagination where the asylum becomes was
like this casino meets brothel meets nightclub.

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Oscar, There's there's such a great
moment where Carla Gugino and Oscar do

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this duet of a song called Love
is a Drug. You can get on

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YouTube and watch it because it's one
of those scenes that makes the movie and

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kind of sets up what they do
there in essence. So, yeah,

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if you're you know, and I
should have told you because I know,

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I know you hadn't watched you would
you were going into this episode without having

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seen it before. I should have
told you watch the extended cut because the

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stuff that he adds a spectacular Okay, and then with more music again the

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opening with the Sweet Dreams cover.
Yeah, what I like that's actually Emily

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Brownings singing. Yeah. She sings
a couple songs on here, I think

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for several of them. Yeah,
she kind of and she kind of bookends

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it towards the end of the movie
with her cover of where is My Mind?

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So I absolutely love I can't talk
and I could I could do a

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whole episode of this just on the
music. But I know we got a

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lot. I know we got a
lot to cover. So uh, let's

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get into it. We've been talking
about reality and and and dreams. So

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you know, basically we open in
the movie Zack Snyder does this amazing thing

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where he tells us Baby Dolls complete
origin over the Sweet Dreams cover without any

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dialogue. Yeah, no dialogue.
What's over? Yeah, so you get

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that, you get this idea so
uh very well to do family mother,

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her two daughters. Uh, there's
a stepfather who is every bit evil as

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he can be. Uh, you
don't see it, but there's a lot

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of there's a lot of insinuation that
he's been abusive, maybe sexually abusive to

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the to the daughters. Yeah,
the mom. The mother passes away of

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cancer. I think it's I think
it's cancer. Yea, And much to

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his chagrin, she leaves everything to
the girls, So the evil step dad

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kind of goes after him. Baby
Doll, who play is played by Emily

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Browning does uh you know, finally
stands up for herself, attacks him.

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Things go bad, and the police
are involved. Obviously they're not going to

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listen to her. They listen to
him, and she's hauled off to the

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asylum, the Linux House, where
we quickly find out that he's made a

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deal with the Orderly, who's played
by Oscar Isaac, who plays a just

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a fantastic dick in this movie.
He's such he's one of the best villains.

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Oscar Isaac's villain in this is one
of the better villains because you you

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like him. Uh yeah, he's
very charming and in some points, like

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even when he has to punish the
girls, you can you can see that

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he really doesn't want to do it. He's he's like the boss that wants

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to be liked, you know,
but he's got to play. You know,

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he's got a he's got a rule. Yeah. So but we quickly

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find out that stepdad has bribed the
orderly to force some paperwork and then have

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a doctor come in and give her
a lobotomy. Now she's standing there knowing

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this, and this is where we're
in reality. Okay, So the thing

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about the reality in the asylum,
you know, this is where we quickly

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realize these women they're victimized, they're
abused, and she's I think Baby Doll

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is very aware of her fate.
She knows she's got a handful of days.

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Yeah, she's got a handful of
days before life as she knows it

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is over. So what is she
going to do. She's going to inflict

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as much damage as possible and and
ultimately kind of come to terms with her

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reality by creating this this fantasy world. Yeah, is that what that is?

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Did you kind of pick up on
on that? Now it does take

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a little time to get to that, to get to that point, but

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you know, you are questing yourself
because, like I said, I went

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into this movie not knowing anything,
completely not knowing anything. So you know,

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I had to figure it out as
I went you know, but you

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know you eventually do get it.
You know, you just you gotta let

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as an audience member, you gotta
stop questioning, you know, or just

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so much more like Okay, I
think I've got it, but you don't

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question the rules. And when you
when you're able to do that, you're

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able to enjoy the film a lot
more. Yeah, you've definitely got to

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give yourself into You got to put
yourself in her in her place. And

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we all do this, whether you're
at work, whether you're waiting at the

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doctor's office, whether you're just bored
at home. You always want to put

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yourself someplace nicer, right, I
always want to imagine. And that's where

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we get to this, this this
second level of the film, Like it's

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almost like a story within the story, her imagination. So in her world,

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the asylum comes a the brothel oscar
Isaac is now this like smug club

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owner Blue Jones. You know we
talked about Carlo Gagina. She goes from

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being the from being doctor Gorsky.
So now she's Madam Gorsky, and she's

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kind of like the house madam who's
in charge of the girls to teach them

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how to dance and teach them how
to, you know, to do their

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thing right. So this is where
I feel like Baby kind of gets her

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her strength, you know, she
she finds her strength. This is where

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she becomes empowered. And in this
level, these women are no longer victimized

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and abused. Now they are becoming
empowered and through Baby dolls leadership with the

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group, they start to take action. Yeah, and this, you know,

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and like you said, dance is
very important in this second reality.

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You know. Oh, it's you
know, Carly genis if you if you,

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if you don't contribute anything, then
you're useless to us, you know.

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So it's like you, you can
either dance or you can be gone.

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You know, very very simple.
So she does this dance which,

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don't get excited. You will never
see the dance. But you don't have

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to. You don't want to,
No, I didn't want to. It's

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by by the by the end of
the film, was like, I don't

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want to see the dance, no
nothing, I get it, you know,

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I get what's going on. So
you don't need to see the dance.

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When she snaps out of the fantasy
world and back into the imagination world

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where we're in the we're in the
brothel and you just see the look the

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stunned faces Oscar Isaac. He like
he has tears, yeah, coming out

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of his eyes. And to me, that's that tells me all I need

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to see. Like nothing in my
imagination, nothing, nothing they show me

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is gonna top what my imagination is
creating. For her dance to be,

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for it to be that beautiful and
elicits such an emotional response. So but

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I think the funny the interesting thing
here is that even when she is in

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her imagination and she still feels like
she she needs help, then she goes

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another level deeper, you know,
and that's where we get this this dream

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world, this this whole sense of
new being, you know, who she

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is when she meets the Wise Man
played by Scott Glenn, So she enters

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this samurai temple, you know,
he kind of gives her a little bit

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of what she needs to do.
And this is all in her head where

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she just knows she needs to escape. But what does she need to do?

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Scott Glenn's kind of like her conscious
saying, you know, well,

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you need to have a couple of
things. You know, you need a

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map, you need fire, you
need a knife, a key, and

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you know the fifth thing, which
is a mystery, which he doesn't tell

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her. It's because she's got to
learn what that fit thing is along the

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way. So for her to go
into this deeper level and talk about,

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you know, a situation where like, hey, we need the map.

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So now all of a sudden,
you know, they're like in this this

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uh, world War one steampunk kind
of world, and Zack Snyder is he

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just gets to have a great time
here because time, even though you get

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the impression that in reality we're kind
of maybe somewhere in the sixties, I

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feel like time is very linear.
Oh yeah, yeah, you can kind

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of blend in these in the fantasy
world, you know, you might be

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in World War one, but they
also have modern weapons, yeah, or

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they're they're there. Their outfits maybe
are are a little a little futuristic.

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And I love just the the the
comparison, the clash, the contrast that

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he that he does in the fantasy
world. What do you what do you

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think about the fantasy worlds? Well, here, here's the thing about that.

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And you're talking about how they were
so enthralled with her after she does

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this dance, then when what they're
watching is what we are seeing are these

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epic, bigger than scale, amazing
action sequences that are, like you said,

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things mestioned together. So what it
is is this unbelievability. So the

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action it has to be this big, gigantic, smooth people jumping in there

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doing things that are impossible, bending
things, because that has to mirror what

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they're supposed to see with her dance, it's got to be so something they've

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never seen before, and that's what
their dances. You're absolutely right. I

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mean it's over the top. It's
over the top, but it looks.

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The thing is, it looks amazing. And as I'm watching it, I

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think that's the thing. If you
had you know, poor cgi and this

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or you know, this type of
stuff, you're gonna be a kind of

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laughable. But because it's so good
and because you allow yourself to just be

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there, they're they're dead zombies.
Who cares you just be there and you're

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enjoying the visuals and that that's what
it is. And you're watching and and

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that's what you're seeing. You're like, look, her dance is art.

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These sequences of action are visual art, and that's what they're getting the emotion

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out of this. We talk about
going over the top of the fantasy world

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world. I mean, think about
all the boxes you're checking here. You've

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got you've got World War two,
post apocalyptic zombies, you've got uh,

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steampunk, You've got dragons. You've
got I don't know if they're orcs or

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what they are, but like in
the like the Dragon world. Yeah,

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I mean there's the futuristic city with
the cyborgs and the robots on the train.

248
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There's samurai swords, there's there's many
many guns. There's fifty cow guns.

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There's I mean, you name it, it's in here, and it's

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awesome. I'm looking imagining when you
when you're dealing with someone's imagination, there

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are no limits, there are no
rules, so you can do anything.

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And that's, like I said,
that's what they get to see. That's

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so gigantic and just something. You
know, imagine that you saw a dance

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that was that great of what you
just saw as far as a sequence of

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action. You know, it's funny. I was so prepared for you not

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to like this movie. I thought
this, this might be the time when

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me and Brad go head to head
on this on this show. I have

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like three pages of notes and now
like you're and you're on board with it,

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you're into it. So now I'm
like, well, I had all

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this. I was. I was
so ready to convince you and make you

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a true believer. But it sounds
like you get it, Brad. I

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mean I get it. It is
not my favorite Zack Snyder film, but

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the thing is, I get it, you know, Like I said,

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I get what he was trying to
do. He was trying to do something

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as a filmmaker that was what was
different, wasn't the same and was you

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know, and when you when you
do that, usually you are you know,

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not given the most positive responses for
that, but it is something that

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you have to do and that leads
him into what will become a just bigger

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career. So you know, so
far. Yeah, I saw this when

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it first came out, and oh, if you just watch the trailer,

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it's one of those trailers where you're
like, I don't know what the hell's

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going on, but it looks cool. And I feel like you either you

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go into this movie and you you
know, maybe you don't understand it,

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but you still love it, or
maybe you do. For me, it

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took a couple of times to see
it to truly understand what was going on.

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I left even when I didn't really
get it, I left knowing I

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liked it. Yeah, And I
feel like you got some people that whether

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they don't get it all or they
do understand what's going on, and they

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come out not liking it. I
know, there's so many people that don't

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like this movie and I and you
know, we've got we've got some some

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friends that that I know that don't
like this movie. And to me,

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it's a it's a head scratcher.
I'm like, why don't you like it?

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You know, you know it's for
for a while until kind of very

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recently, Zack Snyder got a lot
had a lot of haters. You know,

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I know quite a few people that
just love him, and I'm like,

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I don't understand why. You know. I think some of them their

287
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excuses, you know, the extra
slow mo action and stuff. But what

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he does, it's really great,
especially in the action, is you can

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show he shows a lot of action
by pulling back and you see all this

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action kind of going on. And
for some reason, his fights just look

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just vicious. You know, anytime
somebody is like fighting somebody, it always

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looks very vicious and I don't want
to I want to say it's glorifying violence,

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but it just looks a little bit
more real, like how that hurt,

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you know type of thing. So
we we talk about, uh,

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you know, like to your point
the violence, and we mentioned earlier this

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being you know, like these these
women, these these female characters are kind

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of kind of victimized, are kind
of abused. Jenna Malone says something really

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great on the the extras of the
Blue Rat. You know, they ask

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her, you know, what do
you what is this move? What what

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is this movie about? And uh, Jenna Malone, who plays Rocket,

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Uh, her response was, this
is a surrealistic feminism movie. Uh.

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It's got all the archetypes nurses,
mothers, whorees, teachers, virgins coming

303
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together to embrace their strengths and weaknesses
to deal with pain. What do you

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think I mean? Is this is
this a like a women's empowerment type of

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movie or yeah, I mean absolutely. And you also got to take in

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consideration, is that let's get to
the actual reality part of it. We

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don't know what these girls are on, what has happened to them, what

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kind of mental you know, abuse
and stuff that they have so they're almost

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like little little girls. You know, they don't really know better. They're

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they're convinced very quickly by baby or
baby doll, and you know they they

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don't you know, they just kind
of want this major escape, even though

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they kind of feel comfortable in a
prison with without being in the out in

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the outside world. And but I
mean, I agree with her, you

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know, synopsis of the film exactly. And you know, a lot of

315
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people if you say to this movie
it was a little over the top,

316
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most likely you didn't understand that.
Yeah, And again, I think it's

317
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one of those if you leave it
liking it, but it's kind of a

318
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little can fused. This is one
of those where you have to give yourself

319
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a few more chances to watch it
because the more you this is one of

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those rabbit hole movies where that which
is funny. I say that because the

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Jefferson Airplane song Go ask Alice is
prominently featured in this movie. Yeah,

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but it's one of these movies where
the more you watch it, the more

323
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you see and the more you pick
up on you know, we've kind of

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become adapt to that now twenty eleven, maybe not so much, but you

325
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know, look at things like WandaVision. You know, the popularity of doing

326
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a show that takes place in alternate
realities and things like that are becoming more

327
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and more mainstream. But twenty eleven, you know, that was ten years

328
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ago. I think this film will
kind of gain an audience, you know,

329
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in some more time. I think
you're right. And it's you know,

330
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we talk about these these stories within
stories, you know, think about

331
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his his longtime friend and collaborator,
Christopher Nolan. When you think about movies

332
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like Tenet or Interstellar or definitely Inception, you know where you have to you

333
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really, for me, it's like
you watch these the first time, just

334
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you're along for the ride. You're
really not paying attention. You just you're

335
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you're stimulated visually, and and then
you're like, wait, what does this

336
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.680
mean? Or what I don't understand
this? And then you go back and

337
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you start really you know, focusing
on certain aspects of the of the picture

338
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to get answers. I think that's
what Zack Snyder Sucker Punch is all about,

339
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you know. Yeah, and I
mean also too later on when he

340
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does you know his DC films,
you know they you know, Man of

341
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Steel, Batman, Ver Superman.
You watch those recently, If you watch

342
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them now, you're gonna pick up
on things that you may may not have

343
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picked up before. Those movies have
a lot going on in them, a

344
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lot of plot, a lot of
detail, and they're very you know,

345
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they're in the Marvel Universe of a
lot brighter, they're darker, they're more

346
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I want to say, there,
you gotta you gotta keep up. That's

347
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:12.359
the thing with something, just like
with those films, you gotta kind of

348
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:17.000
keep up and know what's going because
there is a lot of detail in it

349
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:18.839
and you're not, like you said, not gonna get it all the first

350
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.119
time. Do you do you want
to you you were talking about, you

351
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.319
know, the DC stuff that he's
done. Do you want to dig into

352
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.720
his phomography a little bit? Absolutely? Okay, take us take us there.

353
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.680
Well, I mean, Zack Snyder
obviously big in the news right now.

354
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Two big things coming out for him
this month with you know, the

355
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Snyder cut Justice League and Army of
the Dead. You know, he kind

356
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.920
of burst on the screen with,
uh, that Dawn of the Dead remake,

357
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which I wasn't really excited about when
it first came out because you know,

358
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big fan of the original film.
But this film's a lot of fun,

359
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.880
and you know, then he does
three hundred and just the floodgates seemed

360
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:06.039
to open for him after three hundred
and then we get Watchmen, which I

361
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really enjoyed because I thought it was
a very faithful adaptation of the graphic novel.

362
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It needed to be visually just like
you're doing a comic book poorly received.

363
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And then he goes and does this. If if Alan Moore is listening,

364
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.599
right, if he is one of
our listeners, we just lost him

365
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.920
because what you said about Watchman,
I agree with you. Yeah, you

366
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.039
know, he feels you know,
and you know he does this Guardians,

367
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Legens of the Guardians. You know, it's a child's film. I get

368
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.599
it. I think every director has
that children film, and he has like

369
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:48.079
eight children. Then we get Sucker
Punch. But Sucker Punch then leads to

370
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Man of Steel. I think what
he does visually in Sucker Punch definitely leads

371
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:59.119
its, lends its, it's it's
style to what he did with the DC

372
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.440
Universe. Yeah, okay, so
and let's talk about it, because you've

373
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got people that love what he did
with d C. You've got people that

374
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:12.200
absolutely hate what he did with DC. So and I get it. I

375
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:18.319
think a lot of people that hate
his uh his take on Superman, Batman,

376
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One Woman. I think they,
you know, so at least some

377
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of the people I've talked to,
I know they're diehard Marvel fans, which

378
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:29.319
I never understood the whole Marvel versus
or DC. Yeah. I love them

379
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:30.640
both. You know, it's like
you don't you don't have to love Star

380
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.720
Trek or Star Wars. Love them
both because they're both great properties. Yeah,

381
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.319
but you know, Marvel, Marvel
took its time. It was a

382
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:45.720
slow bake, over a decade to
build a world, and DC I went

383
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:51.960
the other way and try to just
do the the super super fast you know,

384
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.119
flash flash bang of like get it
all out there immediately. Yeah.

385
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.279
So really pushed it. I don't
think. I don't know if you can

386
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.160
blame him because when they say,
hey, Avengers just came out and we

387
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.160
need to get caught up, you
know, introduce all these characters. Yeah,

388
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.160
there's a whole lot going on in
Man of Steel. I'm one of

389
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.119
the biggest Superman fans there is.
I love Man of Steel, you know,

390
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.480
I'm always gonna love Christopher Reeve and
what he did. But I was

391
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.440
ready for something different because I found
out I learned the hard way, like

392
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:26.880
a lot of us, you know, if you try to give us another

393
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.680
Christopher Reeve, that's what happens with
Brian Singer's Superman returns. You know,

394
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.519
good but not great. And I
think with Man of Steel, he gave

395
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.880
us a more realistic, more modernized
Superman movie and a story. So yeah,

396
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.799
it was it darker, was it
less bright and hopeful? Sure,

397
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:51.839
but it doesn't take away that it's
a great movie. And you know,

398
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.160
to your point, there's a lot
going on in these DC movies Donna,

399
00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:02.680
Justice, Batman Versus Superman. Definitely, there's like four or five different like

400
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:07.279
subplots happening. Yeah, that because
of the way things went. We never

401
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.920
we never got a payoff for no, you know, until we get to

402
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.160
this Flash movie and his Justice League
cut. So I don't know. I

403
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.000
know he I loved three hundred,
I loved Watchman. I've been I've been

404
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.079
a fan, and yeah, I
understand that his DC movies aren't perfect.

405
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.440
There's some stuff I would definitely change, But at the same time, I'm

406
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.319
enjoying it. I'm a fan and
I enjoy it. Yeah, and he's

407
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.279
a visual arts guy. You know, he studied visual arts in uh Pasadena

408
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:40.200
here in California, so I mean
he knows visual arts. But he also

409
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.599
you're talking about like, oh if
we get another Christopher Reeve, you know,

410
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:47.640
you get a lot of people complaining
about, oh, well you didn't

411
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.119
have this or you didn't have that. And then when you give them the

412
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:55.039
same thing, like I said,
doesn't do well. So you try to

413
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.440
do something different. You try to
go in in mainstream of all right,

414
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:01.720
we're gonna make a movie where everybody's
got to come to terms like we got

415
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:06.480
this super being Superman out there,
and we've got to deal with that type

416
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.680
of thing in a real world,
you know, using CNN and stuff like

417
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.680
that. It just feels like this
is happening on your planet. And then

418
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:21.000
you do that by trying to do
something different, and again you are scorned.

419
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:28.119
So it's it is a total catch
twenty two to win audiences because when

420
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.480
you break the rules, you know, when they say, you know,

421
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:35.119
look at something like when Daniel Craig
was cast as James Bond, Well,

422
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.799
that's not how James Bond's supposed to
be. He's supposed to look like this.

423
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.880
Then Casino Roy comes out and everyone's
like, he is the best James

424
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.759
Bond. You know, anytime somebody
tries to go a different route, it's

425
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.440
usually met with criticism right away until
they actually see the source material and then

426
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.319
they then they're like, oh,
well that's not what we expected and it's

427
00:32:53.359 --> 00:33:01.079
now the best. But I'm really
glad that we are this this this Snyder

428
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:06.000
cut coming up, and I'm very
excited where because I'm sure just like you,

429
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.039
when you saw what we saw in
the theaters, you were like,

430
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:13.960
are you are we sure this is
the right movie because it doesn't feel like

431
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.000
it, it doesn't look like it. It doesn't it doesn't have the same

432
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:22.000
tone. And so I really hope
that we get some closure in in this

433
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.960
coming up, this four hour epic
that we're supposed to get. And I'm

434
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:30.759
glad that he got his due in
the fact that it wasn't because of oh,

435
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.279
just critics hated it or something like
that. You know, he had

436
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:39.079
a family tragedy, the worst family
tragedy that you could possibly ever imagine,

437
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:43.839
and you know, he had to
abandon a project where his family was more

438
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:49.039
important, which is exactly what you
should do. So I mean, they're

439
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.880
giving him this opportunity. I'm happy
for Zack Snyder. I don't I don't

440
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.359
think when you when you say they, you know, if you're alluding to

441
00:33:55.400 --> 00:34:00.319
like the studio, Yeah, I
think it's the fans that we have to

442
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.920
think for this, because this is
unprecedented. It never has there been a

443
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.599
moment where the you know, we
were promised something. You know, we're

444
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:14.800
expecting this amazing movie. The director
sadly has to abandon the project and then

445
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:19.360
what we get. I'll be the
first admit I think Justice League the theatrical

446
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:24.639
cut it's a mess. But because
I'm such a fan of the characters,

447
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:29.480
I kind of will myself to like
it. And that's what got me so

448
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:34.920
excited. Because everything he's released on
his the Snyder cut is making me happy

449
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.480
again. So, you know,
for for them to come around and listen

450
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:42.880
to the fans, and for the
fans to say, hey, this is

451
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:45.000
this is what we're gonna do,
this is what we want. We don't

452
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.599
want the Joss Whedon you know bullshit
that you guys churned out, you know,

453
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:54.199
really quick. Give us the real
thing. I'm gonna be happy to

454
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:57.519
see it, but I'm also gonna
be sad because it's gonna show like what

455
00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:01.960
could have been if he had the
ability to flesh out the DC extended universe,

456
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:06.239
like the way he wanted. Well, like you said, you never

457
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:07.480
know, you know, we always
thought we were never going to get this

458
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:12.880
cut, you know, and lo
and behold. You know, we're a

459
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.400
couple of days away from seeing this
cut, and if it does well,

460
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:21.960
if it is what I hope it
will be, and hopefully if it exceeds

461
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.599
expectations, we may see things change
a little bit. It's just all right,

462
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:29.960
So we're what now a couple We're
like, we're like two or three

463
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:34.320
days away from the release of the
Snyder cut on HBO Max, and then

464
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.119
in May we've got his Uh,
this is a passion project from what I

465
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:43.679
understand, his Army of the Dead. I guess he's been working on this

466
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:46.440
for a long long time and based
on his Dawn of the Dead. I

467
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:50.840
can't wait to see it. You
know, a heist movie in Vegas with

468
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:54.960
zombies. That's gonna be awesome.
Well, if you liked the kind of

469
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.239
sequences that you see in Sucker Punch
with the you know, the s as

470
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.960
zombies, you know, you know, if you enjoyed that, which I

471
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.519
did. You know, you're probably
gonna you know, enjoy Army of the

472
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:13.480
Dead. And you know, he
sticks with what he likes. But you

473
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.519
know, like I said, with
Sucker Punch, he experimented, He tried

474
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.360
new things as a filmmaker, and
you know, and that's what you do.

475
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:25.480
And that's what I think is gonna
kind of jump him into into that

476
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.239
Christopher Nolan stratosphere. So what do
you want to see next? Past Army

477
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:35.079
of the Dead. What would you
like to see Zack Snyder? Do you

478
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:38.159
know what I'd like to seem,
you know, experiment again, maybe not

479
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:45.559
do a dual reality film, but
maybe tackle a film that people don't expect

480
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.079
from you again. You know,
if I didn't expect you know, Sucker

481
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.559
Punch when it came out, I
think I turned around the next week and

482
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:55.400
it was already gone or on Blu
Ray, you know, right away.

483
00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:02.360
And I do want to see something, but now knowing that I don't have

484
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:07.119
to have some kind of expectation going
into it that you know, I might

485
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.800
see something that I'm not used to
seeing. And what I'd like to see

486
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.840
him do is maybe take a step
back from the big budget tent pole movies,

487
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:21.440
get back to something a little a
little smaller. One thing I really

488
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.000
liked about Donna the Dead, his
Donna the Dead. It was a great

489
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:29.639
character study, you really all in
love with these characters that were trapped to

490
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.920
this this mall. And I would
love to see him come up with another

491
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:38.679
like an original story, kind of
like Sucker Punch where it's original characters and

492
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:44.840
just do that that that close character
study, whether it's a murder mystery or

493
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.960
whatever the plot is. I'd like
to see him dip more into the character

494
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.599
development of his of his films because
when he does that, when he when

495
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:58.320
he you know, when he takes
a minute to really focus on that,

496
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.440
I think he's dynamite. Yeah,
I want to see him doing more of

497
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:06.199
that. You know, you see
these certain directors that have been taking this

498
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.360
kind of left turn in the stuff
that there usually is there forte. You

499
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:13.360
know, look, Todd Phillips was
the comedy guy for a while, and

500
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:16.000
then he turns around and gives us
the joker. Peter Friley was the comedy

501
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.639
guy too, comes around and gives
us green books. So you never know,

502
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.400
and when they do that, you
know, you usually get something really

503
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.360
special. So maybe there's a Zack
Snyder comedy on the horizon. Maybe,

504
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:34.440
let's hope so so Sucker Punch again. I really this is one of those

505
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.880
movies I feel like, watch it, then watch it again, and then

506
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.679
just keep watching it if you really
like it some of the things. And

507
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.360
I don't think I don't know if
I would ever would have seen this level

508
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:50.400
of detail. Maybe the fiftieth time
I watch it. But even like learning,

509
00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.119
like on the behind the scenes,
I was kind of going through the

510
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:57.159
behind the scenes stuff on the on
the Blu ray, and like the forty

511
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:02.599
five that Baby Doll uses has a
couple little trinkets on the handle, and

512
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:07.360
when you close in on them,
it's it's the story. You know,

513
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.039
there's like a baby doll and then
one of them is like a like a

514
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.440
Teddy bear when it was an hourglass
that kind of represents she doesn't have time,

515
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.519
She's running out of time. Even
the samurai saw that she uses,

516
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.079
uh he zoomed in on it h
and shows that the they etched like a

517
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:29.559
storyboard of the of the whole movie
from beginning to end, from like her

518
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.599
fight with the stepfather all the way
to her lobotomy. That level of detail

519
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:39.320
is insane, but I appreciate the
U his passion to do something like that.

520
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:43.639
Yeah, Like I said, if
you're gonna do this and you're gonna

521
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.840
do it visually stunning, it better
be damn visually stunning. It is.

522
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:52.679
So, you know, we we
go on this quest with Baby Doll.

523
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:57.280
You know, she has the leadership
role with the other girls, Rocket and

524
00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:00.760
Sweet Pea and Blondie and Amber,
and they almost get away with it.

525
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:07.519
But ultimately, even though they don't
get they don't succeed in the plan they

526
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.519
thought they were doing, she succeeds
with her mission, you know. So

527
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.000
you kind of find out that,
you know, what's the story on this

528
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.599
girl. I don't know, but
she raised a lot of hell. You

529
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:22.960
know, she started a fire,
stabbed in orderly helped help the couple escape,

530
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:27.199
you know, as you know,
she was a wild one. Yeah,

531
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:32.119
and all that happens in this this
uh, this imagination. In her

532
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:37.119
imagination, she's strapped in in this
this terrible place. But in her imagination,

533
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:43.039
it's the brothel where she can you
know, go deeper into the fantasy

534
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:47.840
worlds and then and justify what she
does. So at the end, with

535
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.519
John Hamm's character, who's you know, he's seen as the high roller.

536
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:57.039
Yeah, you know, who's the
doctor coming to the bottomizer. I kind

537
00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:02.480
of feel like her sacrificing herself doing
all these things just so Sweetpeak can escape.

538
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:06.760
I love the line at the end
of the movie when they're they're in

539
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.079
the brothel world where she's like,
you know, sweet Pea's like, there's

540
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:14.039
gotta be another way. You know. She's like no, She's like,

541
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.440
this was always the way. Yeah, this isn't my story, it's yours,

542
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:22.800
and you know, so in baby
Doll's head, I think it's sad,

543
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:27.199
but it's also a beautiful thing where
she knows she can't escape, she

544
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.079
knows she's going to be lobotomized.
So if she has to accept this fate,

545
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:37.760
if she has to accept this reality
for her to craft this really vivid

546
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.599
story for her to like kind of
go out as a hero. I really

547
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.960
love that about the movie. And
you also got to think, and if

548
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:50.920
you're telling me this stuff in like
the extended edition shows you know, her

549
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:57.440
actual reality of you know, her
life, her life sucks. You know,

550
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.159
I would want to get out of
that reality as much as possible too.

551
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.519
You know, when Ham said,
he I think she wanted me to

552
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:07.199
do it. Yeah, she does. Nobody wants to remember all that terrible

553
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:13.079
stuff that happened to her. Her
imaginary reality is so much better. Even

554
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:15.920
the second one where she's stuck working
in a brothel is better. Yeah.

555
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:22.360
John Ham's his line about hey,
I can give you freedom. You know

556
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.719
that it all ties in to the
the journey to freedom that she's on.

557
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.480
That that's Scott Glenn's Wiseman character tells
her. Yeah, you know, She's

558
00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:34.480
like, what's the fifth thing?
He's like, that's a mystery, you

559
00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:37.280
know, only you can know it. It's it's a it's a it's gonna

560
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:44.679
be a major sacrifice, and the
major sacrifice is her coming to terms with

561
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.280
her her just accepting what's gonna happen. Yeah, and I think it ties

562
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:53.559
the story up nicely. And you
have to And now when you go back

563
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:58.880
and like I said, repeated viewings
of it, you're gonna see that Rocket's

564
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:04.719
intention was for her sister to get
out the entire time too. So even

565
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.760
then the story was about her and
that baby doll. She was the purpose

566
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:13.039
to get out. You mean,
sweet pea, sweet pea. Yeah,

567
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:16.599
yeah, Okay, but yeah,
but when they're on the train and Rocket

568
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:22.840
has to sacrifice to you know,
they will do whatever it takes to get

569
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:29.079
her out. Yeah, and you
know again where you kind of tie those

570
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:36.039
those those worlds together. You know, Rocket has to sacrifice herself in the

571
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:38.679
futuristic city, you know, on
the on the train, she has to

572
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:44.800
sacrifice herself because in the in the
imagination, the world of imagination, where

573
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.639
they're in the brothel, she gets
stabbed, you know, the coach stabs

574
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:54.280
her. So I like how they
both tie together. Yeah, really anything

575
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:58.679
else bread about about Sucker Punch.
I mean, like, like I said,

576
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:00.480
I think, do you tell someone
what tell someone that doesn't like it?

577
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:05.039
What I tell someone is like I
think it's okay, it's not like

578
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:08.960
this movie. But I also you
know, these types of movies, they're

579
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:15.480
never really accepted. You know,
Brazil wasn't accepted. This wasn't accepted.

580
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.880
But later on, like I said, they get a little you know,

581
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.760
but it's when you watch this movie, you just gotta like I said,

582
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:30.440
enjoy the ride, don't ask questions. And by the time the movie is

583
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:31.920
over, if you go through it, if you go into it with a

584
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:37.280
negative attitude, you're not gonna enjoy
it. But if you allow it to

585
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.639
just happen, by the end of
the film, you will get what is

586
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.360
going on. You will understand it. Clearly, I didn't love the movie.

587
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:49.039
There are some things you know that
I wasn't a big fan of,

588
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.719
but it's still I was able to
enjoy this film. There was never what

589
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:55.960
I was like, I'm you know, I was like, I'm enjoying this

590
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:00.639
film. And there are points that
I'm like, I don't really we know

591
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:04.239
where I'm at or what's going on
at the time, but who cares?

592
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.039
Look at it? Just look at
it all right, Well, I think

593
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:12.760
that'll do it for us. Yeah, this is a real busy, busy

594
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.320
month for us. We got five
Tuesdays, that means five new episodes.

595
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:21.239
Two of them are the from the
limited series of nineteen eighty six. But

596
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.800
the next time we're back on a
film buy, we'll be talking about Adam

597
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:30.559
wing Guard and his Netflix original which
is based off of Japanese animation series I

598
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:36.760
think called Death Note. But we're
talking about him because the end of this

599
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:42.239
month, HBO mask giving us a
one to two punch, Because once you're

600
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.800
done with Justice League, very end
of the month, we got King Kong

601
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:51.920
versus Godzilla, so and so we'll
be talking about Adam wing Garden, what

602
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.920
he's doing for that. Very interested
to get into that. Yeah, all

603
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:58.960
right, well listen. We thank
you for listening. If you want to

604
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.920
get ahold of us, you can
contact us at a film by Podcast at

605
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:07.400
gmail dot com. Always plenty of
information on our Facebook page, at a

606
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:14.559
film Buy and uh you know again, we're streaming everywhere, so we'll see

607
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:16.000
you next time. Thanks everybody,
talk to you guys later