Zack Snyder - Sucker Punch

0:01 You are listening to the film by podcast. We are streaming free everywhere. I'm Jeff Johnson and I'm Brad Koze. As a wise man once said, if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Today, we're gonna talk about a film by Zack Snyder is often overlooked, very underrated, twenty eleven epic fantasy adventure Sucker Punch. Okay, Brad, so listen.

1:00 You and I both have been Zack Snyder fans since the beginning. Yeah, since the Dawn of the Dead remake. Yeah. So this is one of his most divisive films. I think partly because people, I think some people don't understand it. Some people just don't like it. Brad, you recently watched this movie for the first time. Correct, Yeah, And this is also, like you said at first, for it not being an adaptation of any other type of source material. You know, this is just from the mind of Zack Snyder. And like I said, I watched it, and what I got out of it was a very it's what seemed to me an experimental art film that Zack Snyder was was kind of playing with the uh uh, you know, duality of realities, and you know things like that.

1:55 It was it was very experimental, I felt like and I feel like he was trying a lot of stuff with this movie. So yeah, it's his story. He co wrote it, directed it, produced it. This is a pure Zack Snyder project. But did you like it? Because I guess my main question. The thing is I did like it, and it took. Like I said, it is a movie that it takes about twenty to thirty minutes for you to realize do I like this? Do I know what it is? Do I accept what it is? And that's the thing. A lot of people don't really want to, I think, accept what this movie is. And they kind of wanted to be like, no, I don't like that, just you know, just go regular mainstream, and he doesn't. And that's the thing I liked about it that it was done in a no rules type of thing. You know, when you're doing fantasy, you know you can bend the rules of reality and physics and stuff and not ask questions. So let's talk about I know a lot of people often wonder what this movie is about. I'll tell you my take, and I did as well. I thought it was some source material, whether it be a book, a comic book, graphic novel. I really did think it was, and I was completely wrong. Well, okay, so my take on it. Basically, for those listening that haven't seen the movie, this is the story about a young young woman who is institutionalized and has a very

3:28 short window of time to do something with her life. And someone once told me it's kind of like one flew over the Matrix. You know, you've got these these characters trapped in an asylum, but the rules of reality are kind of bent. For me, I think this movie takes place on three levels. Yes, you know, so you've got it was three okay, Yeah, So for me, you've got reality and that's represented by the asylum where the characters are. Level two, you've got Baby's imagination, which is the brothel, and in level three, the deepest level is Baby's dream, Yes, which is the fantasy journey to freedom as Scott Glenn's character what calls it movie. So I definitely want to get into these three levels. But before we do that, anything you want to cover as far as like a characters or some of the some of the actors. Yeah, I mean this is a an assortment of characters. This is uh Oscar Isaac shows up in this, you know, in one of his very earlier films, looking very young, especially when he doesn't have this mustache. You know, it took me a minute to think. I was like, God, that guy looks like, Oh it is Oscar Isaac, and I love Carla. I believe it's pronounced gu Genio Gino. She's been kind of taken off a lot with

5:00 some of the Mike Flannagan stuff for working like Stephen King's Gerald's Game, which Flanning and directed in the Blind manner and Hill House stuff, and uh, you know previously had worked with Snyder on Watchman. And you know, you get this kind of eclectic female casts that are almost a branch of one person. You know, it's there. They all kind of have the same goal. And like you said, the premise of the movie pretty simple. You're you're you're put into in a sane asylum, you know, falsely, but you basically got to get out. Now, if you're gonna do that story that we've seen a thousand times, you better make it different and somehow, and what Zack Snyer does is says, all right, I'm going to make this very simple story stunningly visual, which which he achieves on that love.

5:49 So I'll tell you a couple a couple other characters that you would you don't really think about obviously, And I'm not talking about John Hamm or Scott Glenn. We'll get to them in a minute. It the just the visual cinematography, you know. Oh yes, his now amazing. It looks his dark lighting, his his effort to get out grime in between tiles, you know, like on the wall, and it's like he makes it look like like you can smell it, you can taste it, you can hear the dripping of the terrible pipes. It's like in a very well done in that aspect ration. Well aside from just what you see, uh yeah, your eyes get a really nice treat with this movie, but your ears. I think the music is almost like a character in this movie, because without the music in this I mean, this soundtrack is unbelievably awesome. Yeah, and just the the his ability to use music to propel the story forward, to draw you into certain details. I absolutely love the music in this. Yeah, well you you compared, and a lot of people have done the same.

7:01 The one flew over the Cuckoo's Nests with the Matrix. Now, two other films that I think also meshin there is Mulan Rouge with the way that he uses the music, you know, pre existing songs, you know, you know, updated versions of them, but he uses them in the story, you know, almost like a music video type of you know it almost the movie could almost be one really long music video in some way. And another film that mixes with that is Terry Gilliams Brazil, where you know, this world of fantasy and reality you don't know of is existing in this guy's head.

7:43 So and it's funny that I looked up that Zack Snyder is actually a big fan of Brazil, and so I feel like this is, like you said, Cucko's Nest, Matrix, Mulan Rouge, Brazil all combined together into this giant film with others at it as well. So you talked about Mulan Rouge. Now did you happen to watch the extended cut of the movie or did you see like the theatrical cut? Do you happen to know? I watched the theatrical cut because I always do want to do a compare and contrast, you know, every once in a while, the theatrical is better. I would have liked to eventually see the extend Now is the extended cut? R? Yeah, it's it's it's like a director's cut. It's got seventeen extra minutes in it. The reason I'm asking is we're talking about the music in the theatrical cut, because I don't remember the you know, seeing it, you know back then. But the music number that Oscar Isaac and Carla Gugino do Love is a Drug? Is that? Did you see that?

8:43 I do not believe that was in it. Oh, you missed one of the coolest moments of the movie. Then, So as we get into Babies, her imagination where the asylum becomes was like this casino meets brothel meets nightclub. Oscar, There's there's such a great moment where Carla Gugino and Oscar do this duet of a song called Love is a Drug. You can get on YouTube and watch it because it's one of those scenes that makes the movie and kind of sets up what they do there in essence. So, yeah, if you're you know, and I should have told you because I know, I know you hadn't watched you would you were going into this episode without having seen it before. I should have told you watch the extended cut because the stuff that he adds a spectacular Okay, and then with more music again the opening with the Sweet Dreams cover. Yeah, what I like that's actually Emily Brownings singing. Yeah. She sings a couple songs on here, I think for several of them. Yeah, she kind of and she kind of bookends it towards the end of the movie with her cover of where is My Mind?

10:01 So I absolutely love I can't talk and I could I could do a whole episode of this just on the music. But I know we got a lot. I know we got a lot to cover. So uh, let's get into it. We've been talking about reality and and and dreams. So you know, basically we open in the movie Zack Snyder does this amazing thing where he tells us Baby Dolls complete origin over the Sweet Dreams cover without any dialogue. Yeah, no dialogue. What's over? Yeah, so you get that, you get this idea so uh very well to do family mother, her two daughters. Uh, there's a stepfather who is every bit evil as he can be. Uh, you don't see it, but there's a lot of there's a lot of insinuation that he's been abusive, maybe sexually abusive to the to the daughters. Yeah, the mom. The mother passes away of cancer. I think it's I think it's cancer. Yea, And much to his chagrin, she leaves everything to the girls, So the evil step dad kind of goes after him. Baby Doll, who play is played by Emily Browning does uh you know, finally stands up for herself, attacks him.

11:15 Things go bad, and the police are involved. Obviously they're not going to listen to her. They listen to him, and she's hauled off to the asylum, the Linux House, where we quickly find out that he's made a deal with the Orderly, who's played by Oscar Isaac, who plays a just a fantastic dick in this movie. He's such he's one of the best villains. Oscar Isaac's villain in this is one of the better villains because you you like him. Uh yeah, he's very charming and in some points, like even when he has to punish the girls, you can you can see that he really doesn't want to do it. He's he's like the boss that wants to be liked, you know, but he's got to play. You know, he's got a he's got a rule. Yeah. So but we quickly find out that stepdad has bribed the orderly to force some paperwork and then have a doctor come in and give her a lobotomy. Now she's standing there knowing this, and this is where we're in reality. Okay, So the thing about the reality in the asylum, you know, this is where we quickly realize these women they're victimized, they're abused, and she's I think Baby Doll is very aware of her fate. She knows she's got a handful of days.

12:31 Yeah, she's got a handful of days before life as she knows it is over. So what is she going to do. She's going to inflict as much damage as possible and and ultimately kind of come to terms with her reality by creating this this fantasy world. Yeah, is that what that is? Did you kind of pick up on on that? Now it does take a little time to get to that, to get to that point, but you know, you are questing yourself because, like I said, I went into this movie not knowing anything, completely not knowing anything. So you know, I had to figure it out as I went you know, but you know you eventually do get it. You know, you just you gotta let as an audience member, you gotta stop questioning, you know, or just so much more like Okay, I think I've got it, but you don't question the rules. And when you when you're able to do that, you're able to enjoy the film a lot more. Yeah, you've definitely got to give yourself into You got to put yourself in her in her place. And we all do this, whether you're at work, whether you're waiting at the doctor's office, whether you're just bored at home. You always want to put yourself someplace nicer, right, I always want to imagine. And that's where we get to this, this this second level of the film, Like it's almost like a story within the story, her imagination. So in her world, the asylum comes a the brothel oscar Isaac is now this like smug club

14:07 owner Blue Jones. You know we talked about Carlo Gagina. She goes from being the from being doctor Gorsky. So now she's Madam Gorsky, and she's kind of like the house madam who's in charge of the girls to teach them how to dance and teach them how to, you know, to do their thing right. So this is where I feel like Baby kind of gets her her strength, you know, she she finds her strength. This is where she becomes empowered. And in this level, these women are no longer victimized and abused. Now they are becoming empowered and through Baby dolls leadership with the group, they start to take action. Yeah, and this, you know, and like you said, dance is very important in this second reality.

14:58 You know. Oh, it's you know, Carly genis if you if you, if you don't contribute anything, then you're useless to us, you know. So it's like you, you can either dance or you can be gone. You know, very very simple. So she does this dance which, don't get excited. You will never see the dance. But you don't have to. You don't want to, No, I didn't want to. It's by by the by the end of the film, was like, I don't want to see the dance, no nothing, I get it, you know, I get what's going on. So you don't need to see the dance. When she snaps out of the fantasy world and back into the imagination world where we're in the we're in the brothel and you just see the look the stunned faces Oscar Isaac. He like he has tears, yeah, coming out of his eyes. And to me, that's that tells me all I need to see. Like nothing in my imagination, nothing, nothing they show me is gonna top what my imagination is creating. For her dance to be, for it to be that beautiful and elicits such an emotional response. So but I think the funny the interesting thing here is that even when she is in her imagination and she still feels like she she needs help, then she goes another level deeper, you know, and that's where we get this this dream world, this this whole sense of new being, you know, who she

16:29 is when she meets the Wise Man played by Scott Glenn, So she enters this samurai temple, you know, he kind of gives her a little bit of what she needs to do. And this is all in her head where she just knows she needs to escape. But what does she need to do? Scott Glenn's kind of like her conscious saying, you know, well, you need to have a couple of things. You know, you need a map, you need fire, you need a knife, a key, and you know the fifth thing, which is a mystery, which he doesn't tell her. It's because she's got to learn what that fit thing is along the way. So for her to go into this deeper level and talk about, you know, a situation where like, hey, we need the map.

17:11 So now all of a sudden, you know, they're like in this this uh, world War one steampunk kind of world, and Zack Snyder is he just gets to have a great time here because time, even though you get the impression that in reality we're kind of maybe somewhere in the sixties, I feel like time is very linear. Oh yeah, yeah, you can kind of blend in these in the fantasy world, you know, you might be in World War one, but they also have modern weapons, yeah, or they're they're there. Their outfits maybe are are a little a little futuristic. And I love just the the the comparison, the clash, the contrast that he that he does in the fantasy world. What do you what do you think about the fantasy worlds? Well, here, here's the thing about that.

17:56 And you're talking about how they were so enthralled with her after she does this dance, then when what they're watching is what we are seeing are these epic, bigger than scale, amazing action sequences that are, like you said, things mestioned together. So what it is is this unbelievability. So the action it has to be this big, gigantic, smooth people jumping in there doing things that are impossible, bending things, because that has to mirror what they're supposed to see with her dance, it's got to be so something they've never seen before, and that's what their dances. You're absolutely right. I mean it's over the top. It's over the top, but it looks.

18:51 The thing is, it looks amazing. And as I'm watching it, I think that's the thing. If you had you know, poor cgi and this or you know, this type of stuff, you're gonna be a kind of laughable. But because it's so good and because you allow yourself to just be there, they're they're dead zombies. Who cares you just be there and you're enjoying the visuals and that that's what it is. And you're watching and and that's what you're seeing. You're like, look, her dance is art. These sequences of action are visual art, and that's what they're getting the emotion out of this. We talk about going over the top of the fantasy world world. I mean, think about all the boxes you're checking here. You've got you've got World War two, post apocalyptic zombies, you've got uh, steampunk, You've got dragons. You've got I don't know if they're orcs or what they are, but like in the like the Dragon world. Yeah, I mean there's the futuristic city with the cyborgs and the robots on the train.

19:55 There's samurai swords, there's there's many many guns. There's fifty cow guns. There's I mean, you name it, it's in here, and it's awesome. I'm looking imagining when you when you're dealing with someone's imagination, there are no limits, there are no rules, so you can do anything. And that's, like I said, that's what they get to see. That's so gigantic and just something. You know, imagine that you saw a dance that was that great of what you just saw as far as a sequence of action. You know, it's funny. I was so prepared for you not to like this movie. I thought this, this might be the time when me and Brad go head to head on this on this show. I have like three pages of notes and now like you're and you're on board with it, you're into it. So now I'm like, well, I had all this. I was. I was so ready to convince you and make you a true believer. But it sounds like you get it, Brad. I mean I get it. It is not my favorite Zack Snyder film, but the thing is, I get it, you know, Like I said, I get what he was trying to do. He was trying to do something as a filmmaker that was what was different, wasn't the same and was you know, and when you when you do that, usually you are you know, not given the most positive responses for that, but it is something that you have to do and that leads him into what will become a just bigger career. So you know, so far. Yeah, I saw this when

21:25 it first came out, and oh, if you just watch the trailer, it's one of those trailers where you're like, I don't know what the hell's going on, but it looks cool. And I feel like you either you go into this movie and you you know, maybe you don't understand it, but you still love it, or maybe you do. For me, it took a couple of times to see it to truly understand what was going on. I left even when I didn't really get it, I left knowing I liked it. Yeah, And I feel like you got some people that whether they don't get it all or they do understand what's going on, and they come out not liking it. I know, there's so many people that don't like this movie and I and you know, we've got we've got some some friends that that I know that don't like this movie. And to me, it's a it's a head scratcher. I'm like, why don't you like it?

22:14 You know, you know it's for for a while until kind of very recently, Zack Snyder got a lot had a lot of haters. You know, I know quite a few people that just love him, and I'm like, I don't understand why. You know. I think some of them their excuses, you know, the extra slow mo action and stuff. But what he does, it's really great, especially in the action, is you can show he shows a lot of action by pulling back and you see all this action kind of going on. And for some reason, his fights just look just vicious. You know, anytime somebody is like fighting somebody, it always looks very vicious and I don't want to I want to say it's glorifying violence, but it just looks a little bit more real, like how that hurt, you know type of thing. So we we talk about, uh, you know, like to your point the violence, and we mentioned earlier this being you know, like these these women, these these female characters are kind of kind of victimized, are kind of abused. Jenna Malone says something really great on the the extras of the Blue Rat. You know, they ask her, you know, what do you what is this move? What what is this movie about? And uh, Jenna Malone, who plays Rocket, Uh, her response was, this is a surrealistic feminism movie. Uh.

23:41 It's got all the archetypes nurses, mothers, whorees, teachers, virgins coming together to embrace their strengths and weaknesses to deal with pain. What do you think I mean? Is this is this a like a women's empowerment type of movie or yeah, I mean absolutely. And you also got to take in consideration, is that let's get to the actual reality part of it. We don't know what these girls are on, what has happened to them, what kind of mental you know, abuse and stuff that they have so they're almost like little little girls. You know, they don't really know better. They're they're convinced very quickly by baby or baby doll, and you know they they don't you know, they just kind of want this major escape, even though they kind of feel comfortable in a prison with without being in the out in the outside world. And but I mean, I agree with her, you know, synopsis of the film exactly. And you know, a lot of people if you say to this movie it was a little over the top, most likely you didn't understand that. Yeah, And again, I think it's one of those if you leave it liking it, but it's kind of a little can fused. This is one of those where you have to give yourself a few more chances to watch it because the more you this is one of those rabbit hole movies where that which is funny. I say that because the

25:12 Jefferson Airplane song Go ask Alice is prominently featured in this movie. Yeah, but it's one of these movies where the more you watch it, the more you see and the more you pick up on you know, we've kind of become adapt to that now twenty eleven, maybe not so much, but you know, look at things like WandaVision. You know, the popularity of doing a show that takes place in alternate realities and things like that are becoming more and more mainstream. But twenty eleven, you know, that was ten years ago. I think this film will kind of gain an audience, you know, in some more time. I think you're right. And it's you know, we talk about these these stories within stories, you know, think about his his longtime friend and collaborator, Christopher Nolan. When you think about movies like Tenet or Interstellar or definitely Inception, you know where you have to you really, for me, it's like you watch these the first time, just you're along for the ride. You're really not paying attention. You just you're you're stimulated visually, and and then you're like, wait, what does this mean? Or what I don't understand this? And then you go back and you start really you know, focusing on certain aspects of the of the picture to get answers. I think that's what Zack Snyder Sucker Punch is all about, you know. Yeah, and I mean also too later on when he does you know his DC films, you know they you know, Man of Steel, Batman, Ver Superman. You watch those recently, If you watch

26:47 them now, you're gonna pick up on things that you may may not have picked up before. Those movies have a lot going on in them, a lot of plot, a lot of detail, and they're very you know, they're in the Marvel Universe of a lot brighter, they're darker, they're more I want to say, there, you gotta you gotta keep up. That's the thing with something, just like with those films, you gotta kind of keep up and know what's going because there is a lot of detail in it and you're not, like you said, not gonna get it all the first time. Do you do you want to you you were talking about, you know, the DC stuff that he's done. Do you want to dig into his phomography a little bit? Absolutely? Okay, take us take us there.

27:29 Well, I mean, Zack Snyder obviously big in the news right now. Two big things coming out for him this month with you know, the Snyder cut Justice League and Army of the Dead. You know, he kind of burst on the screen with, uh, that Dawn of the Dead remake, which I wasn't really excited about when it first came out because you know, big fan of the original film. But this film's a lot of fun, and you know, then he does three hundred and just the floodgates seemed to open for him after three hundred and then we get Watchmen, which I really enjoyed because I thought it was a very faithful adaptation of the graphic novel.

28:11 It needed to be visually just like you're doing a comic book poorly received. And then he goes and does this. If if Alan Moore is listening, right, if he is one of our listeners, we just lost him because what you said about Watchman, I agree with you. Yeah, you know, he feels you know, and you know he does this Guardians, Legens of the Guardians. You know, it's a child's film. I get it. I think every director has that children film, and he has like eight children. Then we get Sucker Punch. But Sucker Punch then leads to Man of Steel. I think what he does visually in Sucker Punch definitely leads its, lends its, it's it's style to what he did with the DC Universe. Yeah, okay, so and let's talk about it, because you've got people that love what he did with d C. You've got people that absolutely hate what he did with DC. So and I get it. I think a lot of people that hate his uh his take on Superman, Batman, One Woman. I think they, you know, so at least some of the people I've talked to, I know they're diehard Marvel fans, which I never understood the whole Marvel versus or DC. Yeah. I love them both. You know, it's like you don't you don't have to love Star Trek or Star Wars. Love them both because they're both great properties. Yeah, but you know, Marvel, Marvel took its time. It was a slow bake, over a decade to build a world, and DC I went

29:45 the other way and try to just do the the super super fast you know, flash flash bang of like get it all out there immediately. Yeah. So really pushed it. I don't think. I don't know if you can blame him because when they say, hey, Avengers just came out and we need to get caught up, you know, introduce all these characters. Yeah, there's a whole lot going on in Man of Steel. I'm one of the biggest Superman fans there is. I love Man of Steel, you know, I'm always gonna love Christopher Reeve and what he did. But I was ready for something different because I found out I learned the hard way, like a lot of us, you know, if you try to give us another Christopher Reeve, that's what happens with Brian Singer's Superman returns. You know, good but not great. And I think with Man of Steel, he gave us a more realistic, more modernized Superman movie and a story. So yeah, it was it darker, was it less bright and hopeful? Sure, but it doesn't take away that it's a great movie. And you know, to your point, there's a lot going on in these DC movies Donna, Justice, Batman Versus Superman. Definitely, there's like four or five different like subplots happening. Yeah, that because of the way things went. We never we never got a payoff for no, you know, until we get to this Flash movie and his Justice League cut. So I don't know. I know he I loved three hundred, I loved Watchman. I've been I've been

31:18 a fan, and yeah, I understand that his DC movies aren't perfect. There's some stuff I would definitely change, But at the same time, I'm enjoying it. I'm a fan and I enjoy it. Yeah, and he's a visual arts guy. You know, he studied visual arts in uh Pasadena here in California, so I mean he knows visual arts. But he also you're talking about like, oh if we get another Christopher Reeve, you know, you get a lot of people complaining about, oh, well you didn't have this or you didn't have that. And then when you give them the same thing, like I said, doesn't do well. So you try to do something different. You try to go in in mainstream of all right, we're gonna make a movie where everybody's got to come to terms like we got this super being Superman out there, and we've got to deal with that type of thing in a real world, you know, using CNN and stuff like that. It just feels like this is happening on your planet. And then you do that by trying to do something different, and again you are scorned.

32:21 So it's it is a total catch twenty two to win audiences because when you break the rules, you know, when they say, you know, look at something like when Daniel Craig was cast as James Bond, Well, that's not how James Bond's supposed to be. He's supposed to look like this. Then Casino Roy comes out and everyone's like, he is the best James Bond. You know, anytime somebody tries to go a different route, it's usually met with criticism right away until they actually see the source material and then they then they're like, oh, well that's not what we expected and it's now the best. But I'm really glad that we are this this this Snyder cut coming up, and I'm very excited where because I'm sure just like you, when you saw what we saw in the theaters, you were like, are you are we sure this is the right movie because it doesn't feel like it, it doesn't look like it. It doesn't it doesn't have the same tone. And so I really hope that we get some closure in in this coming up, this four hour epic that we're supposed to get. And I'm glad that he got his due in the fact that it wasn't because of oh, just critics hated it or something like that. You know, he had a family tragedy, the worst family tragedy that you could possibly ever imagine, and you know, he had to abandon a project where his family was more important, which is exactly what you should do. So I mean, they're giving him this opportunity. I'm happy for Zack Snyder. I don't I don't

33:52 think when you when you say they, you know, if you're alluding to like the studio, Yeah, I think it's the fans that we have to think for this, because this is unprecedented. It never has there been a moment where the you know, we were promised something. You know, we're expecting this amazing movie. The director sadly has to abandon the project and then what we get. I'll be the first admit I think Justice League the theatrical cut it's a mess. But because I'm such a fan of the characters, I kind of will myself to like it. And that's what got me so excited. Because everything he's released on his the Snyder cut is making me happy again. So, you know, for for them to come around and listen to the fans, and for the fans to say, hey, this is this is what we're gonna do, this is what we want. We don't want the Joss Whedon you know bullshit that you guys churned out, you know, really quick. Give us the real thing. I'm gonna be happy to see it, but I'm also gonna be sad because it's gonna show like what could have been if he had the ability to flesh out the DC extended universe, like the way he wanted. Well, like you said, you never know, you know, we always thought we were never going to get this cut, you know, and lo and behold. You know, we're a couple of days away from seeing this cut, and if it does well, if it is what I hope it will be, and hopefully if it exceeds expectations, we may see things change a little bit. It's just all right,

35:25 So we're what now a couple We're like, we're like two or three days away from the release of the Snyder cut on HBO Max, and then in May we've got his Uh, this is a passion project from what I understand, his Army of the Dead. I guess he's been working on this for a long long time and based on his Dawn of the Dead. I can't wait to see it. You know, a heist movie in Vegas with zombies. That's gonna be awesome. Well, if you liked the kind of sequences that you see in Sucker Punch with the you know, the s as zombies, you know, you know, if you enjoyed that, which I did. You know, you're probably gonna you know, enjoy Army of the Dead. And you know, he sticks with what he likes. But you know, like I said, with Sucker Punch, he experimented, He tried new things as a filmmaker, and you know, and that's what you do.

36:21 And that's what I think is gonna kind of jump him into into that Christopher Nolan stratosphere. So what do you want to see next? Past Army of the Dead. What would you like to see Zack Snyder? Do you know what I'd like to seem, you know, experiment again, maybe not do a dual reality film, but maybe tackle a film that people don't expect from you again. You know, if I didn't expect you know, Sucker Punch when it came out, I think I turned around the next week and it was already gone or on Blu Ray, you know, right away. And I do want to see something, but now knowing that I don't have to have some kind of expectation going into it that you know, I might see something that I'm not used to seeing. And what I'd like to see him do is maybe take a step back from the big budget tent pole movies, get back to something a little a little smaller. One thing I really liked about Donna the Dead, his Donna the Dead. It was a great character study, you really all in love with these characters that were trapped to this this mall. And I would love to see him come up with another like an original story, kind of like Sucker Punch where it's original characters and just do that that that close character study, whether it's a murder mystery or whatever the plot is. I'd like to see him dip more into the character development of his of his films because when he does that, when he when

37:53 he you know, when he takes a minute to really focus on that, I think he's dynamite. Yeah, I want to see him doing more of that. You know, you see these certain directors that have been taking this kind of left turn in the stuff that there usually is there forte. You know, look, Todd Phillips was the comedy guy for a while, and then he turns around and gives us the joker. Peter Friley was the comedy guy too, comes around and gives us green books. So you never know, and when they do that, you know, you usually get something really special. So maybe there's a Zack Snyder comedy on the horizon. Maybe, let's hope so so Sucker Punch again. I really this is one of those movies I feel like, watch it, then watch it again, and then just keep watching it if you really like it some of the things. And I don't think I don't know if I would ever would have seen this level of detail. Maybe the fiftieth time I watch it. But even like learning, like on the behind the scenes, I was kind of going through the behind the scenes stuff on the on the Blu ray, and like the forty five that Baby Doll uses has a couple little trinkets on the handle, and when you close in on them, it's it's the story. You know, there's like a baby doll and then one of them is like a like a Teddy bear when it was an hourglass that kind of represents she doesn't have time, She's running out of time. Even the samurai saw that she uses, uh he zoomed in on it h and shows that the they etched like a

39:24 storyboard of the of the whole movie from beginning to end, from like her fight with the stepfather all the way to her lobotomy. That level of detail is insane, but I appreciate the U his passion to do something like that. Yeah, Like I said, if you're gonna do this and you're gonna do it visually stunning, it better be damn visually stunning. It is. So, you know, we we go on this quest with Baby Doll. You know, she has the leadership role with the other girls, Rocket and Sweet Pea and Blondie and Amber, and they almost get away with it. But ultimately, even though they don't get they don't succeed in the plan they thought they were doing, she succeeds with her mission, you know. So you kind of find out that, you know, what's the story on this girl. I don't know, but she raised a lot of hell. You know, she started a fire, stabbed in orderly helped help the couple escape, you know, as you know, she was a wild one. Yeah, and all that happens in this this uh, this imagination. In her imagination, she's strapped in in this this terrible place. But in her imagination, it's the brothel where she can you know, go deeper into the fantasy worlds and then and justify what she does. So at the end, with John Hamm's character, who's you know, he's seen as the high roller.

40:51 Yeah, you know, who's the doctor coming to the bottomizer. I kind of feel like her sacrificing herself doing all these things just so Sweetpeak can escape. I love the line at the end of the movie when they're they're in the brothel world where she's like, you know, sweet Pea's like, there's gotta be another way. You know. She's like no, She's like, this was always the way. Yeah, this isn't my story, it's yours, and you know, so in baby Doll's head, I think it's sad, but it's also a beautiful thing where she knows she can't escape, she knows she's going to be lobotomized. So if she has to accept this fate, if she has to accept this reality for her to craft this really vivid story for her to like kind of go out as a hero. I really love that about the movie. And you also got to think, and if you're telling me this stuff in like the extended edition shows you know, her actual reality of you know, her life, her life sucks. You know, I would want to get out of that reality as much as possible too.

42:00 You know, when Ham said, he I think she wanted me to do it. Yeah, she does. Nobody wants to remember all that terrible stuff that happened to her. Her imaginary reality is so much better. Even the second one where she's stuck working in a brothel is better. Yeah. John Ham's his line about hey, I can give you freedom. You know that it all ties in to the the journey to freedom that she's on. That that's Scott Glenn's Wiseman character tells her. Yeah, you know, She's like, what's the fifth thing? He's like, that's a mystery, you know, only you can know it. It's it's a it's a it's gonna be a major sacrifice, and the major sacrifice is her coming to terms with her her just accepting what's gonna happen. Yeah, and I think it ties the story up nicely. And you have to And now when you go back and like I said, repeated viewings of it, you're gonna see that Rocket's intention was for her sister to get out the entire time too. So even then the story was about her and that baby doll. She was the purpose to get out. You mean, sweet pea, sweet pea. Yeah, yeah, Okay, but yeah, but when they're on the train and Rocket has to sacrifice to you know, they will do whatever it takes to get her out. Yeah, and you know again where you kind of tie those those those worlds together. You know, Rocket has to sacrifice herself in the

43:36 futuristic city, you know, on the on the train, she has to sacrifice herself because in the in the imagination, the world of imagination, where they're in the brothel, she gets stabbed, you know, the coach stabs her. So I like how they both tie together. Yeah, really anything else bread about about Sucker Punch. I mean, like, like I said, I think, do you tell someone what tell someone that doesn't like it? What I tell someone is like I think it's okay, it's not like this movie. But I also you know, these types of movies, they're never really accepted. You know, Brazil wasn't accepted. This wasn't accepted. But later on, like I said, they get a little you know, but it's when you watch this movie, you just gotta like I said, enjoy the ride, don't ask questions. And by the time the movie is over, if you go through it, if you go into it with a negative attitude, you're not gonna enjoy it. But if you allow it to just happen, by the end of the film, you will get what is going on. You will understand it. Clearly, I didn't love the movie.

44:45 There are some things you know that I wasn't a big fan of, but it's still I was able to enjoy this film. There was never what I was like, I'm you know, I was like, I'm enjoying this film. And there are points that I'm like, I don't really we know where I'm at or what's going on at the time, but who cares? Look at it? Just look at it all right, Well, I think that'll do it for us. Yeah, this is a real busy, busy month for us. We got five Tuesdays, that means five new episodes. Two of them are the from the limited series of nineteen eighty six. But the next time we're back on a film buy, we'll be talking about Adam wing Guard and his Netflix original which is based off of Japanese animation series I think called Death Note. But we're talking about him because the end of this month, HBO mask giving us a one to two punch, Because once you're done with Justice League, very end of the month, we got King Kong versus Godzilla, so and so we'll be talking about Adam wing Garden, what he's doing for that. Very interested to get into that. Yeah, all right, well listen. We thank you for listening. If you want to get ahold of us, you can contact us at a film by Podcast at gmail dot com. Always plenty of information on our Facebook page, at a film Buy and uh you know again, we're streaming everywhere, so we'll see you next time. Thanks everybody, talk to you guys later