A Film at 45 - Superman with Special Guest Aaron Smolinski

0:03 Hi everyone. This Valerie Bryan. I'm bleat Eve Kiff fucker in Superman. If it'sout luck and old, We're handful. Wait till David at Scott take you up, up and away. Valerie. Wow, what an honor. Thank you so much for kicking us off. It's amazing to hear from the original, the one and only Miss Tess Macker introducing us, setting us up for one of the most iconic movies of this decade, and a movie that we've been looking forward to since we started this series. Right Dave, Yeah, I mean Scott. I've got chills just having her introduced us like that.

0:47 And yes, this is a very special episode. Hello everyone, and welcome back to the year nineteen seventy eight in a Film by Limited Series, A Film at forty five. I am David Burns and I'm Scott Hoffman. Welcome you back as we dust off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever with a fresh look at modern classics and a hidden gems that we can't stop watching. In today's episode, we're talking about a milestone in cinematic history, American mythology, and the superhero genre we know it today. The one and only Superman, whom I only you are the only survivor of the planet equipped. Even though you've been raised as a human being, you are not one of them. Why are you here? There must be a reason for you to be here. Yes, I'm here to find for truth and justice in the American way. It's the country. It's safe again, Superman.

1:51 Thanks to you. No third, don't thank me, Warden. We're all part of the same team. We have a very special episode today. Not only are we talking about a film that made us believe in Man could fly and is, in my opinion, the greatest superhero movie ever made to define an entire genre. Release December fifteenth, nineteen seventy eight, with a budget around fifty five million dollars, it would end up earning a little over three hundred million worldwide during its run. This was the second highest coursing film of nineteen seventy eight, behind Greece. Scott. I would hope everyone has or knows this film, But there are a lot of younger people who have grown up with the recent Marvel film. So how would you describe this classic film that started at all? So this is a movie that made superhero movies possible because it's always been more than a superhero movie. It taps into what those characters are created to do, inspired greatness in others. From a futuristic civilization where one family ends to the farms of Kansas, where another family begins.

2:53 We see what inspires Clark to become the hero so many others would follow. We see how the world reacts to meeting Superman for the first time. Then we see him push his powers to the limit to stop the greatest criminal Flame of our age, Lex Luthor. This is a musty, a movie that redefinds what it means to be a hero for every generation that follows. This is the original Superman. But to make it extra special, we have with us a wonderful guest. You may remember him as the young Kalel and the iconic shot lifting the truck up to save Jonathan Kent from certain death. He has credits in Superman two, Superman three, Man of Steel, Wish Master three. Just to name if you joining us is the very talented Aaron Smolinsky.

3:34 Aaron, welcome to the podcast. Well, thanks, guys, I appreciate it, but I gotta tell you that's a lot of pressure to live up to that introduction. Oh no, no, no, you've got trust me. Thanks for having me, guys, this is that this is truly a pleasure. You know, anytime I get to speak about Superman, it's it's really an honor and I enjoy it. And you know, no questions are off the table as far as I'm concerned. So okay, right, we'll good. Well, we are started to have you join us. When we set out to discuss these films that are celebrating their forty fifth anniversaries, we had our eyes set on a few of them in particular. Of course, this was one of them. Yeah, oh, this is the top of the list for me, Aaron. We're honored to heavy with us, not just as somebody who can give us that inside perspective to our listeners, but as somebody who literally grew up with this, our incarnation of Superman.

4:20 And I'm just so glad you had such a great role in each one of them. I would say you made a tremendous impact. You might you might not agree. I would hope you would, but you made a tremendous impact with your first role. And I'd just like to know a little bit more about how that came to be how did you get your starting film? So yeah, thank you very much. You know, it's it's it's something to hear what an impact that that you know, scene had on so many people. So I appreciate that. How I got my start literally it was just, you know, I'm from Calgary. We're hanging out and there was a radio ad that they were doing this open casting call for this big movie that was to be filming in Calgary. And so my aunt called my mom and said, you know, they're looking for kids three and six and nine and twelve. So I have an older brother, um, three years older.

5:09 So my mom got us washed up, brought us down there, and the rest, as I say, is history. It turned out that I ended up looking like Chris did at that age. Um, so just off the pictures and that and the look I got. I made a pass a cast and director to you know, to the producers and then and and to Dick Donner. And my brother was actually cast as as one of the six year olds as well. That's fantastic. So they actually cast three of baby Clark Kent's. I was second choice and I was number two, but number one didn't didn't work, you know, for whatever reason. It was just you know, you're three, so there's lots of variables that go along with that, and I was just kind of open to doing anything, and um, you know, took direction well, and so that's kind of how it came about. Yeah, we clearly know you're the number one. So yeah, it always always as me to hear that you were three at the time.

6:01 Yeah, the acting that you do, like the it's a it's a scene that is very important and there's so many nuances that you do so well. So the fact that you were only three when you did it and you can remember things about it so well is fascinating. Yeah, it's it's I do remember so much and people are often you know, taken back by that. But you know, I credit that and the performance, you know, to my of course incredible acting ability, of course exactly, but to Dick's honor. You know, it wasn't Dick didn't say this is what you're going to do. Dick would say what would you do if this was to happen? And that's how he was able to get the natural reactions out of me and for me to just feel natural just to do, you know, to do things like that hug where I give you know, Mo Canada, big hug around her neck. That wasn't scripted, you know, that just kind of came out of how I feel. Um, you know, I I remember there's a blooper everybody's seen in her line of you know, he doesn't have any family, not around here anyway, came about because every time she would say he doesn't have any family, and I remember this so vividly, which is really weird. I remember feeling guilty her saying that because my parents were four feet away and I didn't know my parents, feeling bad that, you know that I didn't think they were my family. So I would say she'd said he doesn't have any family, and I look at her and say, yeah I do. Oh, yeah, that's so good. And then so after a few takes, it was finally and Glenn Ford was getting a little ticked off. It was like, not around here anyway, so okay,

7:35 but it's all, you know, it was all Dick, And there's a there's a shot of Dick kind of just sitting back leaning on the hill as I'm in the kind of the capsule and he's just talking to me. And again it was you just landed. You know, you're in this strange place. How would you feel? What would you do? So that's kind of how it just came about as natural. And I was you know, I was a kind of a not precocious, but you know I kind of would do any thing, and I like to talk and um and I wasn't shy um, so it was easy for that to kind of come out and that. But that's really what, you know, how the natural you know, reactions and stuff came out was just their dick talking. Well you can definitely see that in the film and just how you have that natural ability performing there with Glen Forward and Phillis faxter Um. So you know, kudos to you for that, for being so young and be able to pull off that kind of a performance. So, you know, a great job for sure.

8:28 Thanks. Yeah, you know I remember the hug. I remember just looking at her and she's just she was just such a sweet sweet ladies. She's like my grandma, and I just wanted to give her hug. Sure. Yeah, that was a great touch. Yeah, it did seem so natural, like that's the thing. There was so much of it that just seemed like you were just making a genuine connection with these two people that you that your character had never seen before. Yeah. Yeah, and it was because it was it was there, and I think, like I said, it was, it was it was Dick instilling the permission to just be, you know, as opposed to have to do this right. Well, you know, speaking of the Cans, you know, the upbringing of the cancer is what made Clark and Superman so strong. You know, they provided him the skills needed to be a caring, good, decent human being. You know, we all know Superman is strong, we all know he has these superpowers, but as the knts who truly made him who he is, would you both agree with that? Oh? You know absolutely? And I think that goes to say and in quote unquote regular life as well, you know, what we're taught and what we're we're told to believe is kind of what forms us. And it was beyond the powers and all that that he had.

9:43 That wasn't what they you know what, that wasn't what the KNTS raised Clark as. It wasn't you're the superhuman person because you have these powers. You're the superhuman person because that's what the right thing is to do, and you use these benefits that you have to create good and do good. And that was, you know, really instilled and that's I think that's what people are so fascinated and so touched by Superman character, is just that honest goodness of really wanting I did this, you know, and this is a little different. I did this fan film recently called Superman Solar. I actually play Lex.

10:24 But there's a line in there where Lois says to Clark, Superman, you know, nobody asked you to do this, and his rebuttal was nobody asked me not to. And that to me sums up Superman and Clark. Yeah. Well, and that's one of the great things about this movie is that it spends so much time on those formed of years we don't often well, up to this point, we hadn't really gotten a lot of that perspective. It was always, you know, that Clark was the alter ego, and this is where we really really got that. And I love the fact that I had that impression on so much of what followed that. There was so many, so many features that would focus on that Clark aspect, and I really appreciate how this movie kind of set the bar for that. Yeah, I think it was you know, people like you said the alter ego was Clark, but I really think the alter ego was Superman. He was Clark. Yeah, that's who he was, and Superman enabled him to be good and do good right well, and when you appear you, I mean you're so he's raised in the ship. He has the dialogue kind of going from from Joel, but he really kind of knows himself first as Clark, and I think that stays with and that's so important to this character and something that everybody follows, which I'm very glad to see. Yeah, and I think again, you know, rest in peace, Dick. But I think the whole mean lifting the truck was set the precedence of who Clark was,

11:56 because that smile when I lift the truck and I'm smiling is simply I'm just helping. I don't know you, but I enjoyed. This is what I meant born to do and meant to do, you know, And that was you know, Dick shot that specifically, and you know, there were days that we didn't film because the lighting wasn't right and it wouldn't have captured the same basial expressions, the same you know, emotions, of a scene because but that set it up to who Clark really was? Yeah, good stuff. How many times did you end up having to lift that truck? Did it feel like superhuman? Did? Half? Yeah? It did? But I you know, I remember telling my dad like, my arms are sore days work. That was a hard and that The funny thing too, was it was you know, they were going to lower it a little bit, right, but I kind of just got under there and just went on my tippy toes and they were like, perfect, let's go. Um. But you know, I knew that there was a you know, there was a crane that was holding it up and all that and and stuff, but you know, it was still kind of still really cool. I did, you know, I did feel superhuman, not that I was listening to the truck, but that I was pretty cool because all these people were around me, and you know absolutely, you know what I mean, that's scene is iconic in the in the movie. And you know when you were going through school and stuff like that, did you use that to talk to your friends and stuff like that that Hey, you know, I was Khalel, I was Clark. You know, you know it's even people would think so um,

13:30 there's a funny joke. And I don't know what this this shows rated, but I'll tell you this joke in a bit, right. Um. It was actually a bane of my existence growing up as a kid because I was naked in it, right, so kids a lot of kids made fun of me. But because of it and all that sort of stuff, and I never which is really interesting. It's a Clark esque um personality trait I have. I never talked about it. You know, even to this day, the only way people know that I was in Superman is if somebody else tells them, mum, because to me, it's it was just a job. It was just a movie. But some kids liked it. But you know I did help in my dating scene, you know, especially, I'd tell all the ladies and look, he saw me naked already, so nice.

14:15 That's one of the That's one of the great things about this this character is that humility. You know, with Clark's He's never boastful about it. He's never um trying to to soak up the suit and soak up the glory. He's just a genuinely good guy that happens to be one of the most superhuman people on the planet right, and I think at times he's also embarrassed. Embarrassed is not the right word, but embarrassed about it about the powers that he had. You know, he kind of it's almost like it's like his he loves it because he can help, but he doesn't want to be known as just that, right, you know. Yeah, So, and it's it's interesting. We'll probably get into it later. But when I met Henry cavill on Man of Steal and I shook his hand, I got the exact same feeling that I got when I shook and met Chris on set of Superman three for the first time. It was just this really warm, caring, just kind you know when you meet somebody and they just calm you yea for both from both of them, it was And I remember Henry saying, you know, because they told him that, you know, I was the kid and blah blah blah. And I remember him saying that because I said to him, I said, you must feel a lot of pressure, and he goes, I do, but I am you know, I want to honor Chris so much that I don't want to do a copycat Chris, because nobody's ever going to copycat so, but I really want to honor how he brought

15:48 in Clark and Superman, but then also kind of bring in myself as well. He says, I think that's the best way to honor Chris. And he just was just a great, nice human being, you know. And and and Chris was as well. There's you know, I tell this story a lot, but it impacted me a lot as how to be a human as an actor. Well, on the set of Superman three, Um, Chris sat in the tent and had lunch with everybody else the crew that the me uh, you know, the the all the extras. Wow, he didn't he didn't go into his trailer like some of the other actors did. He was just you know. And and that was Superman three where he was huge, right yeah, yeah, absolutely, but he would still just kind of sit and hang. That just goes to show you the level of Christopher Reeve right there, you know. And Richard Donnard even says that the Superman would not have been what it was without Christopher Reeve. And there's there's no doubt about that. I mean, he's always going to be my favorite.

16:51 Henrik Valdi did a fantastic job and you know, I'm glad to hear that story that you said that you know, he was just putting a spin on his own. There's no way he could be like Christopher. No one can. No. Yeah, there's just there's just no way. Well, and there was always that genuine sincerity with with Chris, with his his performance. He he didn't take this on as a as a comic book movie or as a superhero movie. There was a genuine sincerity and everything that he was doing. Yeah. And even in that scene that he had with you in Superman three, Um, you know, it's this, it's this genuine connection. He's not condescending or anything. Um. And I think at one point he kind of he kind of puts his hand on your head, right, Yeah, he puts his hand on my head and like kind of you know, rubs it and not in like like I'll get out of here your little kid kind of way, you know. But it was a very like warm, hey bud type of type of thing. Yeah. And I noticed he did that with a lot of um kids in the in the pictures and one of the things I saw in kind of the latest showing when I was watching it with my ten year old son in the theater um. Joel does the same thing when he's sending Kalle off on the ship. One of the last things he does put his hand on his head. So there's a subtle kind of you know, there's a legacy kind of connection there. There's a something that carries on, which is another thing that I think is huge about this feature is that is that aspect of legacy. It's what he's carrying on from his parents on Krypton, what he's carrying on from the Kent's um. And you

18:21 know, you see him passing that along even in the smallest moments with kids, because he knows what he knows what that connection means, absolutely absolutely, you know, and he knew I mean I don't think he knew how huge it was going to be, but he knew the impact it could have on kids. You know that we're watching it in their future and how they grew up. I mean, let's let's let's look at this movie. I don't know of another movie, I mean, maybe one or two that multiple generations can watch and enjoy. Yeah, and it's and it's safe or you don't have to cover kids eyes or their ears or anything like that, you know, um, and it's touches people today these days. That's one of my favorite things about doing the conventions is meeting all the fans and hearing their stories about this was the first movie I saw with my dad brought us closer together, or the first movie I saw with my parents, and it's still you know, it formed who I was and who I wanted to be as a human. I mean that's pretty incredible stuff to hear forty five years later.

19:22 Yeah, absolutely huge, And it just goes to show, you know, this is what started the entire genre. I mean, it really did. Everyone tries to live up to be like this film. I don't think anybody can do it or where every other to do it, but yeah, it speaks volume right there. Yeah. Well, and it knew that it had the responsibility of not only kind of making this character more accessible to every generation because it had been a run for so long, kind of helping redefine that, but also kind of defying what people would think of as a comic book movie. This didn't get into camp. There were funny moments, absolutely, but never anything that was kind of you know, um, making it feel like it was trying to be anything less than a sincere approach to telling this story. And that's kind of the reasons I think it hits and what say, yeah, and that's a Chris and Addict thing. I mean, don't forget um, when christ Chris was like one hundred and sixty pounds, one hundred and fifty pounds, it wasn't he wasn't big. But Dick saw him and said that's Clark and that was better. And they based everything around that.

20:29 You know, they didn't go for the guy that was already you know, jacked and it was going it could have been a comicy, you know thing. They really went with the humanality and the human element to the character rather than the superhero you know theme. Yeah, absolutely, and it works and it works well. Sure. Um, Aaron, I know you spoke a little bit about Christopher Reeve, but Um in the film used the honor pat trying Clark kent for the first any thoughts on the performance of by Feast and Christopher Reeves, Clark I thought, yeah, I think I think Jeff, you know, I think Jeff did a great job in it. Um. I thought it was fantastic and I think he I think he really to me, he really captured the the inner struggle that he was having of what what do I do with all this power? You know, um, which which I thought was great. And he also I think captured the the you know, the Chris ask, the kind um you know part of it.

21:36 So I think that Jeff did it, you know, did a great job. Excellent. Yeah, I think, um, he helped to build on so much of that kind of responsibility he felt as a son. You know, He's got that great line about all those powers and I couldn't even save him. That one still gets me every single time I hear it. Um and you see his you know, just his facial expressions, like you know, um, that moment when he's leaving Ma in Kansas and he can't give her much information besides him going north. But they're just that sincerity in in the way that he brought Clark forward, I think was just fantastic and something we see that in Chris's performance. But there's also that that comic side to him, that humorous side that he brings in Clark's performances. And it's never like this, you know, winking an odd thing. It's always um, I don't know, I think it's it's crisp, comedic timing, which for this when you don't necessarily expect, but he hits it really really well.

22:40 Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, don't forget he was a you know, a classically trained actor as well. So, I mean, he he's great. And it never came across campy because I think Chris really he didn't. I mean later on maybe, but he didn't really take himself too seriously either, you know, and so and I think that's kind of the thing that that allowed him to be natural and free and have those campy those the comedic timing moments without it being campy or looking like it was forced or you know, okay, now you want to get a laugh here. It just was kind of like, you know, that's Chris, Yeah, just hit really naturally. Yeah. Um. And I think sometimes he was surprised by it at times. I think there's a lot of reactions where he sits up it's like, oh, you know, exactly, yeah, and it's natural.

23:26 It just fits. Yeah. So we talked a little bit earlier about kind of a sense of legacy in this film, and you know, speaking of like Clark growing up through all those kind of years as a father. Nowadays, do you feel like you have a stronger connection to to Jonathan or to Joel's character. Oh, absolutely, especially the sacrifice that you make as a father for the betterment of your child, for the Drell character, and then for the Jonathan character. Um, really about teaching just to be kind and just to be a good a good person and not you know, um, so I do you know, um feel that you know that the connection now, especially and that scene where you're talking about or all the powers and I couldn't even you know, save them. Um, that's kind of the relationship that I want to build with my my kids. Yeah, having that real closeness where you do anything. Yeah, Yeah, that's absolutely that's all you can hope for, right that you taught them well and they're they're getting into the world and going to make a good difference in it. Yeah.

24:45 And it's you know, it's it's the big thing is I don't care like my son's a hockey player, my daughter is a competitive tier out. I don't care how well you do, how many goals you score, how well you do if you're not a good sport or you don't treat somebody else kindly, then all that all those accolades, all those superpowers, mean nothing. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more with that, well, said Aaron. This movie was originally promoted by focusing on two of its featured Austar winning stars, Gene Hackman and Marlon Brando. Let's talk about Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor. This guy was intelligent, witty, and he had a plan that will reshape the entire West Coast using only three people. You know.

25:29 He doesn't have this big army like you see a lot of villains and stuff today. You know, he's a true mastermind, right, Yeah, So Aaron is somebody who has played Lex, you know, absolutely, I think Jean's performance set the bar for somebody that followed. What kind of things did you pick up from from Gene for your portrayal of Lex? You know, I've actually studied his portrayal of Lex for other movies I did where I played like a bad character. And the thing I love about it is it's not that typical. You know. Yeah, bad guy is just he's really not a bad guy. He just has a bad plan, right you know, and so he's like, I want to kill everything he has this plan.

26:21 It's a bad plan, you know, And so that's where it comes from, and that's where the evilness kind of comes from because he doesn't understand. Really, I don't think that he's this bad, horrible person, right, he just thinks people don't like him and that he doesn't understand why. Because this is a brilliant plan that he's got. So it was. It was fantastic because he was and this is what you always need in any protagonist antagonist character. You need likability. And let's be honest, Lex was likable. Oh yeah, oh yeah, very charismatic, very charismatic, very likable. At times you go, oh yeah, I get wait, why am I saying that? But you know, you know, and that's how he you know, you can get things done, and that's how he got miss Tesmar. Yeah, and you know kind of I think at times even Clark was like, I kind of like this guy, but I got to stop this this plan. Yep. Yeah, and you you hit you hit it there. Your villain needs to be written as strong as your hero otherwise you're not going to care about your your villain at all at all, you know.

27:27 So, and Gene Hackman just pulled it off extremely well in that role. And you're right, you he had a bad plan, but Okay, I kind of get it. Yeah, And Aaron mentions that delivery of that line by Gene Hackman, that Miss Testmoker every time he yells it. It is one of my favorite lines in the movie. And we've got to talk about her. We've got to talk about the unmistakable genius of Valerie Perryne as Miss eve testmocher um as the as part of Lex's gang, but so much more. She's somebody who saved Superman literally and who broke lets out of jail and Superman too, they'd both be cooked if it wasn't for her, Yes, exactly. So uh we were. We were honored to have her as part of a film by a podcast and Jeff and Brad had a chance to talk to Stacy Souther about the Valerie documentary, which talks about her career including Superman. But she's been in so much more, um and she's she's an amazing woman. If you haven't had the chance, take a look at the documentary. But Dave, you know, let's talk about Miss test Mocker and what she did for this movie. Oh man, not not to mention what a beautiful actress she was. Annie is Yeah, um, just what she brought to this. I mean, she gets caught up with the wrong guys, right, you know, and and just fortunately for her, you know, Superman comes along, and you know, she's caught up with a choice to make here, Um does she let Superman go to save her mom because

29:00 one of the missiles was heading that direction? Or does she side with um Lex Luthor? She makes the right decision, And I think she was perfect for this rule. Yeah. I love the fact that her character keeps Lex in check. He I mean Otis is Otis is always kind of like stumbling to try to get his approval right, and always kind of the punching bag for Lex. But Eve Eve goes toe to toe with Lex the whole time, and a very genuine performance, like you can tell that she really cares about her mom and it's not like, you know, feelings of regret or anything else like that, but just this genuine just please save my mom, and I know that you'll do it because you never lie. I don't think we got would have gotten that from any other actress. And I think that her performance really sets the bar for women in league with Lex. You know, we get Mercy, one of the characters that comes up in the animated series, and you know, we see a lot of you know, his his right hand woman, um in a lot of other features. I absolutely think that without Valerie, we wouldn't have that in the in the Lex character today, right right, Yeah, Yeah, Well, and he's not you know, like you said, he's not twirling a mustache in a purple and green jumpsuit. He's not you know, creating a death rate to you know, to destroy the world or something like that. He genuinely thinks that there's that there's value in his plan. And I think some of the best written

30:34 villains are the ones who are convinced that they're right, that they're not you know, evil and nefarious, that they've got some kind of purpose that they're fulfilling. And that's that's that's so dangerous, so compelling in a villain. And I think that's one of the things that Gene helped to kind of involve this character. Yeah, I mean, and I think it was very similar with you know, Heath Ledger with the Joker. Yes, you know, he really had something that he really believed it. He wasn't just being a crazy joker, you know, and he had a purpose and and Lex didn't I don't think Lex didn't dislike Clark and Superman. He was Superman was just in his way. Like any good guy, you've got somebody that's in your way, you got to figure out a way to move that, you know.

31:26 Um, And it was the same thing. And so when I played Lex, I took you know, a lot of what I felt the objective of Gene Hackman wasn't in portraying Lex and put that into mind. And then I also combined, um, you know a little bit of Jesse Eisenberg, who no offense. I wasn't a huge fan of that Lex performance because to me, that was more of the just a crazy but didn't really have a purpose. I found myself being like, Okay, well, why is he so why is he so crazy? What's the what's his purpose? What's his objective here? And then you lose interest and you kind of go whereas you know, I think Gene and even Michael Rosenbaum a little bit, they were they always kept you kind of going about, Okay, what's he gonna do next? I see you know, and I think you're right. I think you're the villain has to be stronger than the hero because people naturally gravitate to the hero and want to hate the villain. But when you can get and this is what Jean did, when you can get an audience confused about who to root for for even a split second, you're going to have a huge success. Yeah. Well, some of my favorite Lex Luthor's, you know, said from Gene Hackman, you've got Clancy Brown in the animated series, you've got Michael Rosenbaum, and then with John Glover being his father, it's that aspect of Lex saying I don't have to be stronger than you because I can outsmart you and there's nothing you can do about it. All of these powers and it just kind of reduces them, and that's intimidating. I mean,

32:58 there was a scene, uh you mentioned that that great kind of delivery of that miss Tess Bocker. Every time he yells it, the first time he says it in front of Chris, Chris jumps a little bit and reacts ever so slightly. And that's one of the great nuances about this Lex and absolutely paved the way over all of them to follow. Absolutely, And I love the fact that you got to play Lex. That is so fascinating that it was. Yeah, it was it was. It was a lot of fun. Um it's a great little fan fan film as well. It's really really well done. It's gonna be fun. But now I can say I'm the only actor to play Clark Kent and Lex Luthor. That's right. Hey, that's a good point doing both sides. Then wait a second, does this mean that you have been in more Superman features than anybody else? Yeah?

33:47 Yes, technically, I don't know if this fan one counts, but even before that, Um, I was one of the I think it was me and I want to say Margo maybe, um because Superman there were two Superman twos, so that right at twice, so it was Superman to the Donner cut, Superman three, Man of Steel, so there's five and then Superman Solar now would be six for Superman. You know films. That's fantastic. Now you win, we'll give it to you. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, where's Waldo in that puzzle? Yeah, he's just popping up everywhere. Well, just the nature of the fact that you were both Clark and Lex, I mean, come on, you gotta admit that probably counts at least two or three times each. Yeah, I think so.

34:30 I think so well A Man of Steel. How that came about too, That was because I thought that was going to be the last Superman movie, as did many others um and so I thought it would be very cool to be in the first and the last. And so I was talking with my friend Jim Bowers from Cape Wonder and we'd both had He had more of a relationship with Dick than I did at that point, but he's like, why don't you just reach out to Dick? So I did. So I called him up and I said I think it'd be cool this blah blah blah. And he's like, it's a great idea. Send me your headshot and resume and I'll send it over to Zach. And that was that. Well, it's that hugs you did in that Kent scene. Yeah exactly. He's like, all right, that's fine, No, that's fantastic. I'm so glad that you had a chance to reconnect with with Nick Donner so many years later.

35:21 Yeah, he's you know, I moved down to la and I booked a pilot and because I was Canadian, they needed to prove that I was better than Why should they give it to Canadian rather than a US actor. So there's a couple of things you needed. One of them was a letter from a prominent um US you know, entertainment person. So again I reached out. Hadn't talked to him. I saw him at Dave's video once when they released the thing. But then I reached out and I told him the situation. Three days later, I had a letter from him saying that they should give me the part. That's just that's just who he was. Well, that's impressive. I hope he still had You still have that letter or did you even see that letter? Did you just go straight to them?

36:04 It went to them, But I got a copy of that. That's a good point. I don't know where it is. I have to see if I can find them. Actually, I mean, that's quite a letter to have in your collection because it's talking about you from Dick Donnerd. That's aggressive in itself. Wow, Yeah, you know, that's just who he was, you know. Yeah, well at least you got to work with him, you know, you got to interact with him. That's that's huge in itself. You know, I'm totally jealous, but hey, kudos to you man for being able to do all that. So I think, yeah, well, you know, uh, we talk about the cast and stuff like that, let's talk about a little bit of the music. Because you know, just as Christopher Reesa the definitive Superman, so too is John Williams score is the definitive music for Superman. You know, there is nothing more iconic than the william score. As soon as we hear it, we are flying right alongside Superman. His music tells a story, right, Yeah? Absolutely, h I mean even in the music itself it says Superman. If you listen to it really close, when it gets to the that it sounds like it's saying Superman. Is that not crazy? I remember? Would surprise me if that was done purposefully? Yeah? Yeah, I think John Williams had to phonetically just think about, like how can I make this just like people hear it and you automatically identify with it. Um. I know that I've played that theme countless times in my car, like it's it's inspirational, Like I can't help like even the subtle build that it has in the beginning.

37:37 Um. And I mean like how many people throughout history since this one has stood there with their hands on their hips and kind of repeated that dunda dun kind of thing. I mean, that's it goes with it a lot um And it's an amazing parallel to the character too, I think, because it has you know, notes, a humility in there, and it has this very powerful build that kind of progressively it builds and builds to a strong moment, but then it steps back a little bit to almost kind of recharge. I feel like there's a lot of parallels there with Clark and with Superman, you know, moments when he's in the moment remembering who he is and where he kind of came from. Um, what does the music mean to you?

38:28 Well, ay, I mean it's just you know, it gives me chills when I hear it, ay, because it's great, but just because of the memories I have of what it's associated with. But I think more so than that, I think you hit the nail on the head as far as it relates exactly to the Camps. I think based on the humility, and it builds up and it builds up and it gets strong. But it's not a screaming. It's not an overpower look at me, you know, strength of the music, it's just a building. It gets you warm, you know inside, and you know it raises your chat. It just does all that warm feeling of making you feel good. Yeah, and then like you said, it kind of backs off and then it builds again. Um. So I think it's great. But you know, people say when you hear the music, what happens? Like, I don't know. I hear the music, I run and I lift up a truck. How could you not? Right, because people at the dealership are always yelling at before exactly like what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. I heard the theme song. I thought somebody was in trouble. Yeah. Well, and it carries through so much of the movie too, right, I mean it's the it's one of the first times that a superhero really had that kind of theme. Um. I know that the George Reeves um features had their own, but this one, I mean, you know, can you read My mind? Comes through in the theme so much of it is repeated.

39:51 Um, I want to listen to it now, I kind of right, it's hard not to. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, no, it's it's it's a great and I and I think it's one of those theme songs which is so rare that people may not have seen the movie, but know the theme. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about the the music just for a second. By chance, do you play it in the house, Like, does have the same effect on your family? On your kids? Um? You know, the great answer would be yes all the time, but I don't. And it's and it's it's really funny. Like my son said to me once last year, two years ago, he goes, Dad, I don't get it. I'm like what, he goes, Why do people still care? You were in the movie for like two minutes and it was like forty years ago. Yeah, Mike, man, I can hear you know, fourteen years ago, Like I can see that, right. But you know, I've played it a few times they here, and I think my daughter is more enthralled with it than my son is. Um. You know, she likes the music and and that she likes We just watched it. I guess um gets Google and TikTok or it showed like a bunch of it. So she showed me that, you know, Um, and she likes it, you know, but they're not.

41:09 You know, I think that just two young or whatever for it. Yeah. Well, I mean, like you said, it's one of those themes that people probably know that even more than the movie, and even without the movie, it still gets you charged up right. It still does the job that it's supposed to do, which is connect you with that feeling well, and you play the first little bit of it, and I guarantee you you're in a room of ten people, you're gonna have eight go like this. Oh yeah, yeah, you know immediately because they everybody associates and not and knows it, and it makes it really makes everybody feel like they have a superpower. Just when you hear it, you know, all of a sudden, you're like And I think that's the great thing about it. Yeah.

41:54 Yeah, I use it as workout music. Yeah, you can't do that. You can't it. Um, So Aaron, Um, I probably know the answer to this, but you may be surprising me by it. Um. What is your favorite scene in the film. My favorite scene in the film, I mean, I have a bunch, but you know, I like the rooftop scene with him and Lois. But I like because it's very comedic and very funny and says a lot the old helicopter. You know, I don't worry. I've got you. You've got me, Who's got you? Right? Um? You know, is just a great scene because it breaks up the drama of that whole thing. And again, what it does is it brings human you know, humility back into the Superman character and you know, and all that sort of stuff. So and then you know that scene. Um, I think that's a really powerful scene with Jeff and Glenn. That's that is among my favorites. A very very good choice there.

43:04 I just I liked how the whole cinematography with Kansas stuff. I loved all of that. You got some really good sweeping shots. But yes, the scene between those two and then when he has the heart attack and stuff, yeah, I love that scene so much. Well, I love the fact that's all shot in Calgary. Yeah yeah, right, just outside of Calgary in a town called Blackie. Yeah, okay, Alberta. So it's a take. We we all met at a gas station and hopped on a bus and then drove out to the set. And then Superman three was in Calgary as well. Okay, yeah, they made a metropolis and my mom and dad were in that scene. So the lady that plays with my mom in the Superman three scene, yeah, that was my mom. And your your dad was involved too, right. He was in that scene where they're pulling the guy out of the car that was flooded when he hit the fire hydrant. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. And then family business. It was a fact my brother because he was in He was in Superman one when they did the montage, which that montage never made it at and then he was in a scene in Superman three that got cut as well. So after that he's like, I'm done with this business.

44:14 He's on the writing on the wall, right, Yeah, So it was a family affair. Yeah, And I would say if I had to pick my favorite scene, it's got to be the Lois's death in the Earthquake because we get that range of Chris's I don't even know if it's anger, it's it's frustration. Like there's the Tim Daly's animated Superman has this great line about feeling like he lives in a world of cardboard and then he's always got to keep himself in check. So thinking about this character that always has to pretend one way or another and always has to hold back to a certain degree, this is where he really lets it go. And the look on his face.

44:59 It's not frightening anger, it's just relatable and that that scream just gives me chills. Dave, what about you? So you would think it would be the first time we get to see Superman saving Lois, But you know, it's a very simple scene. It is when he's sitting down at the table and Lois is interviewing him for the first time. They're on his balcony at the apartment, right, and she asks him do you have are you married? I believe is what she says. You have? You have? You know? And he gives that little grin, that little smirk that he gives. You'll be the first to know, you know, and he has his hand over his face. Yes. It just proves the innocence and the performance that Christopher Reeve brought in to not only being Clark Kent but also being Superman and made it his own that I loved. Yeah, you know, we we love to quote actors or directors and stuff like that from the movie, and I really found this quote from Christopher Reeve that I thought really summed up who he is and why he is the definitive Superman. He says, I have seen firsthand how Superman actually transforms people's lives. I have seen children dying of brain tumors who wanted, as their last request to be able to talk to me, and have gone to the graves with a piece brought on by knowing that their belief in this kind of character is intact. I have seen that Superman really matters. They're connecting with something very basic, the ability

46:29 to overcome obstacles, the ability to persevere, the ability to understand difficulty and to turn your back on it. And that speaks volumes about Chris, like he knew what Superman brought to these kids, right to people who watched it. It's that sincerity that he brought to the character. And there's another quote by Richard Donner that kind of thinks back to that. In terms of his sincerity and his enthusiasm about flight, Richard Donner says, he made the flying extraordinarily believable. I totally believe it had a lot to do with his understanding and the feeling of an aircraft when it flies, the airflow, the list of the wings, and how it's going to affect you. It's something you're very conscious of when you fly an airplane. And I think when he puts his hands out on the set he was flying. He totally believed it.

47:15 He believed he was Superman and he knew that for the kids, like in your quote, you said, their last rest was to be able to talk to me, not just meet me, but they wanted Superman to talk to them and talk them through what they're going through. That is insanely powerful. Yeah, huge man, very powerful individuals for sure. In this just shows you the impact of not only this movie but on the people who were in it. Yeah. Well, let's let's talk about the impact of this film because it has so many across the board and we've already discussed some of them with what it did to the genre itself, but the special effects in itself, you know it, you know, it made us believe a man could fly. With what they did with this. Christopher Reeve was able to, you know, with his motions make it even more believable. But what they came up with to make it look like he could fly was so impactful on the industry itself, on what they would change because they invented a lot of this stuff is just for Superman, correct, correct, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, And I love the fact that I think Chris and Dick Donnor both had experience as pilots that they were applying to you know, how he's holding his hand, how he wants to lean into it, and things like that.

48:34 And believe is the key word there, right. They knew that it was a story about sincere belief in the power of this character and not taking it lightly. I love the fact that he believed so much in taking the character seriously, as in knowing the responsibility of what he could do with this character, but like you said, not taking it too seriously at the same time, never settling for good enough. I remember hearing that there were so many things that they tried with making Flying look believable, and they could have settled on anyone, but they didn't. They kept persevering and making sure that this is something that really had that believability. That's what I think I love about this movie. Yeah, well, I mean they spent a lot of time and money on and I can't remember the name of it exactly, but really perfecting the harness. So you know, you put a harness on it and you fly, you're gonna you're gonna tilt a little bit, and you're not focus. You're so they really perfected on getting the harness property that it would hold the body properly, that he could you know, concentrate on everything else to make it look real. Um, and then the running and all that and um, you know, he even you know, Mark mcclerk tells stories about you know, there were certain scenes where, um, he wanted to refer to Marcus Jimmy you know when they were talking, because it just really wanted to stay in that character. He didn't want to break you know, the character because he felt, you know, it's the huge responsibility.

50:00 But he was definitely, you know, a perfectionist when it came to getting things right, not just to be difficult, but because he cared so much and felt, you know, so much responsibility to that character. And I think in turn, he brought out the best of other actors and other cast members on set. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And in that scene from Superman three, did you get to watch him take off? I did? Yeah, that was yeah, you know, because on Superman one, I didn't really know who Superman was. I was just happy to be on set and eating all the free candy and stuff. You know, I didn't meet him. I didn't get to meet him. Until Superman three, And the first time I met him was on set that day, and so first, you know, as he was mad, he had massive hands, so my hand disappeared in his when he shook my hand. Well, and then you know, and even that had such a big impact on me. He didn't have to come over and say hi and shake my hand and you know, do all that he could, but he could have been like, oh hey, you know, um, so that made a huge impact. But then I remember like watching him run and take off and it was so seamless, and it's not easy doing that in a harness, right, you know, right, but it was just and I was like, holy crap, is he really flying? I knew he wasn't, but it was. It was pretty cool. Yeah, well, anytime you were working with those kind of harnesses and rigs, there's so many variables that can throw it off. Oh

51:31 yeah, aside from just gravity, but just the way you pitch your body, the way you hold your legs. I remember hearing that was one of the most difficult parts, was holding your legs in a certain position so you can get a kind of balance on that harness. That must have been so amazing to see in person. Yeah, I got chills thinking about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was. It was great because you know, sometimes you with special effects, you don't get to see that stuff, right, But there are no special effects. I mean there were a little bit after, but he literally ran and then off he went, and it was so smooth, you know, yeah it was, but you're right, I mean it is dangerous, like Jeff almost got hit by the train, you know. Um, Gene Hackman's brother was a step coordinator and saved him on that, yeah, you know, him out of the way, just because it's so difficult with that. Yeah, and he was he befriended you on the set of the first Superman, right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah he was. He was great too, you know, in the tent and befriended us and played and played with us as well, which is great to think that Lex's brother technically saved Superman. Yeah, it was a friend of Clarks. It was a very small element there.

52:43 Well. Richard Hackman was literally like three feet from my scene, laying on the ground just in case that one cable they had snapped, yeah, holding up the truck. Wow. Yeah, yeah, that's all I had was one cable. Jeez. That's scary. That's scary to think about exactly. People said to my parents and I, Hey, you weren't very good parents. You let your kids stand under the truck and then you let them come out naked in front of millions of people. We've got the brother of the greatest criminal flame of our age, so he's got to be very smart in what he does. So you know you're in a good hands. Just don't take him off exactly, all right? Um, what else we have in Peco Scott. You know we've talked about the music, we've talked about and how this kind of influenced so many other things that have followed. Obviously, you can see the DNA of this in the eighty nine Batman, small Ville, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, you know, taking the superhero genre and turning it into something which it should be, which is to inspire greatness and others.

53:47 You can see that kind of thing happening in so many characters. Spider Man kind of being that everyday person that can do extraordinary things. And I just love the fact that it's it's continued to persevere to this day. Um, I think if I can let me, I think you the spider Man and the Toby Maguire Spider Man is probably, in my opinion, one of the closest comparisons to the Clark and the Superman in that it was just a regular, every day kind of you know, quirky, funny kind of guy who had this huge responsibility and was battling how to do it, but all he wanted to do was just do good. Yeah right, Well, and they spent so much time with his Kent's right, with Aunt May, with Uncle Ben. They took the time to make sure that we got to know those characters. Um, which I there's some of my favorite characters in any of those features. Um. I always love to see the parents and you know, because they are who create the hero before they even put on a suit. Right, Yeah, hearing. Any any thoughts on what James Gunn's gonna do with Superman. I I mean I kind of I get it, you know, I get what what they're doing with the younger and in a new generation and all that. Um, I hope and I think that they

55:22 he will have enough I don't want to say enough respector or that he will try and do a modern day Superman. I think that's what the point is about the younger, you know, and kind of restarting it, revamping it. But I think he's gonna I think he's gonna do a modern day you know, Christopher Reeve, not a copycat, but bring it back to the route where it started it what the meaning of it is. Yep, Yeah, I think so too. I think you're right on that eron for sure. Well and knowing what it takes to kind of make it U relatable to a new generation like they had to do that in seventy eight. They've had to do that in so many other iterations, but they still to stay true to the character. And that's what's really important, I think in making it U timeless, making me still relevant to have other generation right, And I think it's such a difficult task. And I think, you know, and some people may not like this, but I think some fans kind of in a sense need to be open minded. You know that you've got to have a different You're not You're never going to recreate what Chris did, no, right, So you can't hold anybody to that anymore. You can't hold a film as long as they stick to what it's about and what the true heart of it is that's what matters, right, you know. Right, So I think we've kind of got to get over this. You know, it's not Chris, It's not Chris. It's never gonna be Chris. Nobody's gonna

56:52 be Chris. Let's look at what Superman is about, and let's build a movie about that and see we can to that, right, you know? And I think I think Henry did that personally in my opinion. Um, but I see where it's like, Okay, you know, you kind of let's let's do something. Let's do something else now, Yeah, not kind of mimicking what was done before, but doing what was done before, which is to dig deeper into the character and see what else you can bring out. And that's what's going to connect not only with new generations, but it's going to cross generations as something that parents can share with their kids, because I think that kids can maybe share with their parents to say, like, you haven't seen Superman until you've seen mine, and then it takes on a whole new meeting. I love that, right, And I think I think that's the one place Man of Steel missed the mark was is they kind of did a little bit of character development, then they went right into the bad stuff of fighting and all that, and they lost the whole how he got to be who he was and what it meant you know. Yeah, just like you said, they lost then you've got to have that heart, and they lost that heart. Yeah, they were starting there and then it just kind of like, Okay, that's enough, let's go, and you're liking he kind of felt ripped off and it jipped in a sense I did anyway.

58:07 Yeah, absolutely warn you said, you're you're in a fan film Superman solar Um. When's that going to be available? When can people catch that? So there, it's in post right now, so it should be coming out fall um all the posts. It should be done and it'll be on YouTube. And it's a great I mean, they got they really did a really good job at post production, and the trailer looks looks phenomenal and I had such a blast, and the buzz about it right now that it's getting I think there may be you know, I told the writer and director it's the same person that created I'm like, bet, are you writing the sequel to it right now? Because it's gonna be We're gonna need a sequel. We're gonna need to see more Lax because you know it's a it's a pretty great scene that was in there with between me and Glenn who plays Superman.

58:57 Yeah, well, just how you're describing it. I can't wait to see it. I'm really looking forward. I mean, I want to see the entire thing, but I'm really looking forward to seeing your Lexow. Thanks, we'll say hope, hope. I had a decent job, but I had a lot of fun with it. So you're one take Aaron, so we expect it now, right. That's right? Yeah, Like we flew you in for four days, but we're down in four hours. What do we do now? Any other any other projects you want to talk to us about, any place where people can look for you. Um, that's it right now, you know. I just I did that. Um. I'm supposed to be putting on tape for a U film with Dean Kane, but I don't know if the dates are going to work out on that, So I can't say too much about that right now because I don't know if it is.

59:44 But um, but other than that, that's that's it right now. Yeah. Well, Aaron, you know, we really appreciate you stopping buy and hanging out with us and talking about the greatest superhero movie ever made. Yeah, and I'm that's that's the point of doing this entire series is it's these movies that are forty five years old, which makes me feel old, but um, but that still stick with us. And you know, David, like you said, Aaron, I appreciate so much the fact that you're willing to give us the time today to talk to you and here's some of these great stories, but also that you're so willing to continue to connect with fans because I think what you did in these movies does have an important part in these characters. And there are connections that people make and you know, they could connect to any part of these movies. And I know that any time you know, stars are willing to take the time to make that connection and share that connection and hear what it's meant to people, It means the world to us as fans. So thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Oh well, I appreciate that very much, and thank you guys. I'm honored that you you know, you guys reached out to me.

1:00:57 And you know, I've said up a four it's cheesy and I will always say it, but without fans, there are no movies, there are no songs, there are no sports that you know, and and the fans are the ones that you know, pay for the athletes, pay for the musicians, pay for the actors. So and they go out and watch it. And our job as actors is to reach out and touch those people in some way to make their day better, whether it's by a laugh, or whether they had a really tough day and they forgot about that day because they went and watched a movie, or you know, I was really touched and in a hard time in my life by Goodwill Hunting. That made a huge impact on me. And so I think as actors that's our job. And so anytime that I get the chance to thank fans when they come to the comic cons is a big honor for me because really it's, you know, without without the fans, there's there's not the opportunity. Without you guys, there's not the opportunity to get out and talk to more people about it and share my experience, you know, And it's an honor to do that because they were on set, they got to see the film. It's it's you know, they get to hear all these behind the scenes stories of you know, like Dick Donner letting me talking to the Waukee talkie and they gave me juicy fruit gum to get me to come out naked and all this stuff that you know, nobody would hear. And it's they deserve to hear that, and I love to share it, you know. And and I'm not one of those conventions that it's like hi, thank you, next next, you know, I really believe in in I talk to people and whatever I sign

1:02:29 has something to do with what I just learned about them, So it's not a generic So it's it's specially them. These people paid their hard earned money, they took the time off of work, they waited in line. The least I can do is make it special to them, you know, because that that's just what I believe, and I think that's what the Superman movie is all about. So, Scott, where do you see this up? So most of the DC catalog can be found along with this film on HBO Max, but there's so much more to discover on recent special editions. I know a steelbook just came out. If you have any connection to this movie, I highly recommend investing in a physical copy with all the great features. Specifically, there's a commentary with Richard Donner and Tom Mankowitz that alone just adds another layer of magic to this movie. You just can't miss. It's like the stories we're getting from Aaron today, those behind the scenes story make me want to watch it so many more times, and you just don't get that with just a streaming version. Dave, what about you? Yeah, I mean I own a couple of physical copies of this movie, and you're right.

1:03:34 You need this in your collection. You need this in your library because you don't get the behind the scenes kind of stuff when you're streaming it, and you need that because you're right, Scott. This adds a additional layers to the process of this movie and makes you appreciate it that much more and makes you want to watch it over and over. Yeah. Well, I want to thank all of our listeners out there for tuning in for us, especially with this special edition, because you know, it was great to talk about Superman, but it was also great to have the guest Aaron Slinski with us. Thank you, guys. I'm really honored, you know, to be here. I'm very appreciative of it, and like I said, if you know any more that you guys want or anything like that, please let me know. Absolutely, Aaron, thank you so much, sir. Yep, all right, have a good night, right, And we also want to give a very special thanks to Valerie Perryne for that beautiful introduction, Dave.

1:04:30 I know that you agree with that being introduced to missus Tesmacher herself as something we'll never forget, and we want to give Superman fans a chance to help her in her fight against Parkinson's disease. Director Stacy Souther a great friend of Valerie that spoke a film by about this documentary, as we've mentioned before, as organized to go fund me page called help Valerie Perryane Fight Parkinson's Disease. I think at this point she's a little more than halfway toward her goal, and I know our listeners can help save the woman who saved the Superman. Look for the link in the episode's description and give what you can to help out to your friend. If you want to leave a comment and discuss what's next or even how suggestions, you can find us at www dot film by podcast dot com. A film by podcast at gmail dot com. A film by a podcast on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram until our film reels start rolling again. Go out watch something new, watch something different, and who knows what you will discover next. Thanks everyone, Thanks everyone, see you next time. Yeah, but you're the one take wonder, so you won't need that exactly exactly it's there if you are you talking about Jeff?

1:05:58 Come on, okay, will you guys have a great show and I'll catch up here and uh in just a short while. Okay did I say something doing salt them? No? Just must be a Batman fan.