Bill Paxton - The Greatest Game Ever Played

0:00 All right, man, hit me with what you have decided as your favorite Bill Paxton performance. Uh well, you know the easy answer is, of course Hudson from Aliens, because I think I've probably quoted his lines so many times in my life. It's it's gotten, you know, kind of ridiculous, But honestly, I love him as Chet in Weird Science, the big brother you absolutely love to hate yet. Nathoo, Sorry, Chet is such an asshole and that he's I mean, you know, you and I we have we have brothers.

0:41 You you're the younger brother though, right, yes, I have an older brother. Was your older brother Chet? At times? Yes? He was not nearly as loud, but very very uh mean. I was the older brother, and I want to believe that I wasn't Chet, But you know you asked my Yes, my brother Josh, he might have a different take on it. So yeah, Well, listen, we've been talking about Bill Paxton all month long, so we're obviously going to talk today about a film by Bill Bill paton his two thousand and five underrated biographical sports film, The Greatest Game Ever Played. Hello, and welcome back. I'm Jeff Johnson, and this is a film by podcast I am talking about a Disney film about golf. There is no greater co host, no greater guest I could have invited today than the uh, the one and only Dayton Johnson of The Docking Base seventy seven podcast. Dayton, welcome back.

2:13 Of course, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about this when it was the first time watch for me, So I'm excited, was it? Yeah? Well, you know, and back in April we kind of played a joke on everybody. We we we took over each other's show, and you know you didn't you didn't mess things up too bad, So you know, I was happy to have you back. You know, I got admit the Whitney Houston kind of came out of nowhere. That's exactly what I wanted it to do. Uh yeah, man, I I love the fact that we made the decision to talk about Bill Paxton, like kind of celebrate the career of Bill Paxton all month long. And this is uh you said, it's the first time watch for you, the greatest game ever played. Yep, it was a first time watch for me as well. Okay, great and Dayton, you know you loved the golf. I love the golf.

2:58 I think a lot of people that love movies and golfing, they typically are always going to shoot straight to ten Cup or straight to Happy Gilmour, right, And I don't know how this one just kind of slipped through the cracks for me. You know. It ended up up up in a bunker, you know, And I didn't have a sandwich to hit this one out and check it out. But I am glad that I did. It's celebrating its twentieth anniversary this year, so wow, it only took you and I twenty years to get to this one. Right, And it was one of those that I kept telling myself I need to watch I mean, especially after you know, I you know, with all the other Disney Sports ones. I mean, of course you have cool Runnings and Miracle, which we actually did a review on a year and a half.

3:42 Loved you loved your Miracle episode A lot of. Such a great fantastic movie, you know, in the Rookie I got, which I got to see in the theater when that came out with Dennis Quay. So going into this, you figure out by now I would have seen it, but he gave me a great reason to sit down to watch it. I'm glad for that. Let's uh, let's do a couple of facts and a quote about Bill Paxton. Uh, Dayton, You're gonna love this one. He was a member of the nineteen eighties new wave band Martini Ranch, and one of their their bigger songs a song called Reach. Do you want to take a Do you want to take a wild guess at? Who directed the music video for that song?

4:23 What year was this? I couldn't tell you. It's in the eighties, it was, you know, they were there an eighties. I just throw James Cameron just because well, that's. A hell of a hell of a thing to throw out there, because it was, in fact James Cameron. That's that's pretty amazing, all right. You know, well, yeah, you're the you're a music guy. I you know, that's like God, he knows he'll know this. But all right, Uh, let's go for double double jeopardy. Uh. The video featured three specific people. You want to a wild guess? You're you're you're one for one? You want to take another wild guess at who might have been in this video? Oh my god, I have no idea, Yeah, no, no idea.

5:04 Go ahead, just to give you I just don't even how. About how about his his Near Dark co stars Lance Henrickson and Jeannette Goldstein and director Catherine Bigelow. Oh that's so cool. How much fun was that set? That? Right? Right? Right? Yeah? All right? Another fun fact, the nineteen eighty five film Commando is the one movie he did with Arnold Schwarzenegger that wasn't directed by James Cameron. Interesting. Now, one more fact for you. In his teens, he caddied for legendary golf pro Ben Hogan in Fort Worth, Texas.

5:50 So I don't know about you. I don't know. I don't know about you, Dayton. Doing doing a little bit of research into this film, you would assume that Paxston has got to have a love for the game. Obviously, I didn't really find a lot of stuff about him being an avid golfer or loving the game of golf. But the idea that he was a caddy for someone like Ben Hogan that tells me everything I need to know about why he chose to direct this film and and why it's so enjoyable. So right, I get that. On being a filmmaker, Paxton once said, quote, I want people to reevaluate me, my dream would be to make films like Clint Eastwood did. You have to be a self starter out here. At a certain point it's important to take the reins or otherwise you can be regalled to obscurity so quickly. And you know, I read that.

6:43 It makes me sad, you know, tragically we lost him, you know, so young, because he you know, this is the second film that he directed, and he directed too, you know obviously did We kicked off the month with Frailty, which was just awesome. Is an awesome film, you know, Amber and I had a lot to say about that one. However, I can only imagine what he could have done had he had the opportunity, because you know, he was kind of, you know, in his late fifties, he was starting to move into that that realm of film director as opposed to as opposed to actor. So yeah, you can only you can only imagine what we could have got Dayton, You and I have This was the first time watch for us. I wasn't sure what we're getting into. I know it's based on a true story. Uh but for those of us that have not seen this film or maybe need to go back and revisit it, can you give us a little synopsis about the greatest game ever played.

7:40 I can't go all right, he know. The turn of the century or twentieth century, a young Harry Varden becomes a champion golfer, but learns at his that his amazing skill is no match for the class boundaries that exclude him from the gentlemanly English society. A dozen years later, a young American fr Instance we met, fights against the same prejudice as well as his own father's disdain for a chance to participate in the US Open. Against his idol Harry Varden. The struggles of both men are acceptance. Uh for acceptance provides a background for this amazing based on a real event story. I want to jump into it. Film opens it's We're in England in eighteen seventy nine. We get these creepy guys are kind of doing a survey for a new golf course, like the what is it the Links of Jersey or Jersey Lane.

8:31 Yeah, yeah, it's on the Isle of Jersey. Yeah. Now, I mean this is all about this movie? Is it's it's it's the story of Francis we Met, right, So do you think it's odd that we kind of open on on Harry on Harry Varden's story with him being a little kid, and I don't know, what's what's your take on that? How do you How did you feel about the opening? I gotta admit it caught me off guard when it started, and I liked it because it had a very almost spooky way to open a film. Oh yeah, very omiss. I mean the guy, the four guys, they're all dressed in black and you know, look like they're there to I don't know, do some kind of weird, you know thing.

9:15 But it makes sense because both women and Varden have very parallel lives as far as class warfare and where they are in the world and the love of this game, and that their paths cross very when Francis is very young and has an impact. So it is an interesting choice. I don't think it's a bad choice, but it's an interesting choice. I like. I like that it's it's an interesting choice because I don't know about you. I assume we got like a brave heart thing happened, because this shack's filled with like three or four kids, right, and then these guys in black cloaks and black top hats are coming up the path and I'm just like, Oh, are their parents dead, they're bringing their parents back or what's going on.

9:57 It's like he just you know, basically shuts the kid down, young young Varden, right, kind of puts it in a place like that where this is gonna be a golf course where you're living in. You know, here's a here's a coin to beat it, you know, right, h But but it gives way to this absolutely fantastic opening title sequence. Uh, you know where you're kind of seeing like Boston at the turn of the century. You know, it has like a little bit of a cheers vibe with the some of the I don't know, the the the animation. I guess i'd call it, you know, the photo the real the real photos with the animation. Uh. Brian Tyler score kicks in here, right, I gotta be honest, Brian Tyler, you say that name before I watched this movie, and I'd be like, what do you do? I'm not really sure?

11:07 Right? But I love the score here, and you know, you kind of go back you find out he's done some pretty impressive films. What was your thoughts on the music here? Well, I can tell you that I like the music a lot more than the visuals than you did. The music I really enjoyed. It's very powerful, it's moving, it sucks you in very quickly. I just don't feel like it matched the visuals. I mean, I kind of was expecting. I felt like I was watching something different than I was listening to. But the music is fantastic. I'll tell you what, Dayton. Let's take a quick break, and when we come back, I want to jump into this cast and talk about some of the some of these folks. Welcome back. I am here with Dayton Johnson of the Docking Bay seventy seven podcast. We are talking about Bill Paxton's the greatest game ever played. So let's start off with the star Shia Labuff. He's playing Francis Wimmett.

12:09 You know, true story. We talked about that. So Disney Kid gets on the radar with what was it even Stevens and he does the movie Holes in two thousand and three, right I Robot in two thousand and four, and then he's starting to shed the young kid look. By two thousand and five, he's got this movie he's doing Constantine with where he's like Keanu Reef's sidekick. He's driver and by two thousand and seven, Yeah, and by two thousand and seven he's a star thanks to Transformers. I want to talk about Shia in the Greatest game I Ever played, because you know you've loved a lot of his movies. I'd have to imagine, I know I have. Yeah, he's actually even recently because I know he's he's somewhat been shunned by some people in Hollywood. But he did a film a few years ago called Peanut Butter Falcon, which is a independent film where he helps a kid with down syndrome who leaves home where they're tak care of him because he wants to be a wrestler, so he is. That's the name of the kid's name is Peanut Butter Falcon. As far as his wrestler, so he's.

13:14 It's a good film. Dakota Johnson's in it, and that's worth checking out. But it's not a good it's not a good film. It's an incredible film. It's an incredible film. Man, we're gonna fight already. No, no, no, no, listen, I have I've had the Peanut Butter Falcon like on the list. Like I'm like, you know what we're gonna get to that at some point, because that is a sensational movie. Yeah, you're right, Shila buff is brilliant in it. Yeah, yeah, he definitely because after a while, because you see him, especially in the Transformers films and whatever, you kind of you kind of get that same vibe, you know what I mean, Because even in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, it was that same vibe that seemed personality.

13:54 In this one, you get a kid that's vulnerable, he's he's trying to do what he loves. He's also trying to deal with his father, He's trying to deal with you know, social expectations, you know, where he belongs in the world versus where he wants to be. And he does a good job. I mean there's a lot of emotion in his expressions. He you know, when he's struggling that one put towards the very end, when you know his head is shaking, his eyes and everything, you really can see the stress running through his face. So he was really really good. In fact, I think this is one of his best performances. I have to agree with you. I think this is a situation where you've got Shia on the cusp of adulthood.

14:34 So there's still a little bit of that innocence to his performance, right, you know, and you're rooting for him the entire time. You absolutely are rooting for him. Agreed. I love I love what he's doing here. Let's talk about Stephen Delane playing the legendary Harry Varden. I see this guy. Immediately, my brain says, Stanisparathian. It's Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah, I never watched that series. You never watched Okay, So okay, So that's where I know him from. He's a great actor. What did you did you? Uh? What's your history with this guy? You have his face? I mean, I kept saying, it was like, I know this guy. I know this guy. I did see him, of course in Spy Game, which isn't great, but I remember him from that. He just honestly, I kept thinking, where do I know this guy from?

15:22 Where I know this guy from? And I couldn't place him zero Dark thirty. I remember him from that, So it was it wasn't like he didn't stand out. He the whole time I'm watching it, I'm thinking, I just know this guy, you know what I mean? So to me, I just I like, in a way I was lucky because I was able to lose myself in his performance instead of keep going, oh he was this and he was this, so I kind of preferred that. But he was good. I really enjoyed him in this. You mentioned you mentioned Zero Dark thirty, and now I'm thinking, what wasn't he like a secretary of Defense or secretary of He was some kind of politician, right. Yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't a soldier or anything. That's correct, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But I think I think what he's doing here though, I mean thinking about if if Francis is our hero of the film, he's he's the opponent, right, He's the adversary. He's not necessarily a villain or a bad guy. He's it's almost it's almost this is a grudge match, you know, because I like Harry Varden in the film. I like that he what he stands for. I like I like his story, his you know, he's he's dealing with the same class struggles that Francis is dealing with, the only difference being that he's at the end of his career and I'm still hoping to get that validation. Fantastic performance. So I want to talk about Elias Kotius. He's playing Francis's father, Arthur Yes Dayton. This guy is a fantastic character actor, but I just don't feel like he gets a whole

16:52 lot to do here my breed. No. In fact, that's one of my I don't have a lot of complains about the film, but that's one of the ones that stands out, is that he only has a few scenes, and a big portion of what we should be seeing from this film is the relationship with his father and the fact that he goes against what his dad wants him, you know, his dad trying to protect him, try to say, you know that you're not wanted in this in that world. You know, find a job, be okay with where you are in the world, and work hard. And there's that scene when he finds out that his son's playing in the US Open and he tells him, you know, they argue and he says, well, when this is over, you need to find another place to live. That scene should be so much more powerful, but we really don't get enough scenes with them building a relationship for that scene to have weight. So and yeah, he just we needed more. We just needed more character building, more development between the family between with wo met and just him dealing with everything. We we could have done a little bit less golf and more more character.

18:05 We I want to I want to get into this right now because when we not to step on noteworthy scenes, but I kind of had like a a collect all just you know, dad constantly projecting his own failures in life upon Francis, instilling the class system and everything you're saying is absolutely what's happening with this guy. I just it's it bums you out because it's like, come on, just you know, back him up, give him give you know, and we've seen this story play out time and time again, where yes, you know, the dad is like, you know, get go to school, get a job, you know, quit this dream, and we know what's happening here. It's like the dad never realized his dreams. And and to your point with the you know, Francis kind of going back on his word because you know, he he loses the qualifier and his dad says, OK, if you you lose a qualifier, quit golf, give it up, go get a real job. And then you know, Francis is pulled back in by the powers that be, like, hey, we've got a chance for you to be in the US open now and you're right, he's like, yeah, when this is all over, just find a new place to live. It's like that. It was kind of a kind of quiet, like it just seemed like it should have had a little more gravitas to it.

19:15 Yeah. I agree, yeah, it it that's and I wish we'd gotten more because we we see him when they're little, when Francis is little and he puts the money in the jar and he says, you know, work hard, put the money in the jar, and it's a really cute scene. And then the next scene he wants to go. Little Francis wants to go see Harry Varden and the dad's like, no, he needs to go to school, and of course he mom takes him and would Yeah, we'll get to your point, which is your to your point is typically you have the one parent that says no, you're gonna do this, the other parent that encourages him. So that's that's nothing new. But it's like and then next thing you know, he's once again no he can't do this or whatever, and there's not enough relationship building for those scenes to have any real way or any real impact on us.

19:59 So what we're what we're missing. So the moment he comes back like he's it's like day two of the US Open. He's you know, he has that moment with with President Taft and the whole family's excited. And then you know, Elias Kotias comes in from a hard day at work and then points out the fact like, hey, if if you if they win, they get this much money. If you win, you get no money, and like he's really shitty about it, just shitting all over him, like you know you even if you win, you get no money. And that that's the scene. I feel like should have had a lot more punch to it, and it could have. It could have been great. There could have been some some fireworks there, but it just we didn't get it.

20:39 And I feel like that's where Elias uh Cotys maybe miss missed out. You know, I think that's one scene and you know there's redemption there. Well we'll get that later, but but before we do that, we got to talk about a couple other people. Josh Flitter playing arguably the the cutest toughest kid film ever, Eddie Eddie Lowry, his caddie. Oh my god, he's my favorite. He's actually my favorite. Character's awesome. He's so good. Yeah, you know, quick check of his phimography shows he's he's worked pretty steadily in like kids movies, and I truthfully, I haven't seen any of them. I love this little kid though he is. He's got such a I don't know what he's doing, you know, because like you, it's it's like if Scrappy Do were not annoying, you know what I mean, because he's tough.

21:33 Let's not let's not compare this kid to scrappy Do. That's just me. I'm just I'm just saying, like, imagine a world where you're not annoyed by Scrappy Do. The kid the kids like three foot tall. He can barely carry the bag, but he's got he's talking like an adult, like a yes, like a guy, like a guy from the pub, you know. And he has all these little sayings you know that he's he he honestly he steals every scene that he's in, you know. And so what's funny is we get the emotional attachment between him and Francis that we should have gotten with the dad. And so the scene when well the morning like just you really believe their friendship. Like every scene, you know, when he tells him, you know, don't worry about other people, play your game, or you know, when he's he's looking out for Francis the entire time.

22:24 You know, when Francis comes out in the morning, the Randy morning, he's sitting there by the gate with the mumbrella already he's already beat him there so far and away. You know, best character, most interesting character, most fun character in the entire film. I agree with you. I wholeheartedly agree with you. He's if there's one reason to watch this movie, it's it's to see Josh f Litter play Caddie Eddie Lowry. Question for you. So, I'm not gonna call her the love interest, but she like the girl that's got you know, Francis's eye. Yeah, Peyton List playing Sarah Wallace. Yes, this is her feature film debut, and I had to think about it and I kind of vaguely remember her from mad Men. But do you what's your do you do you? Have you seen her in other movies? Do you know? Do you know this this this woman? Peyton List?

23:16 Okay, so the funny part was when I saw her name come up on the credits, I was expecting somebody else, so Disney Channel Family. So my daughter, you know, was the right age to watch the TV show Jesse, where there's a different Peyton List that was on that show. And now more people probably know her from Cobra Kai. She's on She's on that show. So I kept expecting the little blonde girl from those from those shows to show up on this and I'm like, so I didn't see her, And then when I saw the credits at the end, I'm like, oh, there's two peyton Lists working in Hollywood to spell their name? Is that? Is that right? Because I knew I'm Peyton. I thought it was Peyton Reid, but I'm not clearly I'm wrong. So that's Peyton List from Cobra Kai.

24:01 Yep. I thought the same thing. I was like, wait, that she couldn't possibly be playing this. This twelve years Yeah, they're twelve years difference in age, so so I expected her to be like a sibling, like one of Francis's siblings or one of of Arden's siblings or something like that. But when I didn't see her, I'm like, okay, So but apart from that, honestly, I was looking through her stuff, and I did watch to see the show flash forward that she was on, which only lasted a season, which was unfortunate because it was better than that. But apart from that, not really I know she's She was on Gotham, which I never watched. Don't remember Gotham.

24:41 Yeah she played According to this, she was Ivy Ivy Pepper five episodes, so apparently she wasn't never very long. So yeah, I don't. I don't know her anything else. Because I looked at her, I thought she was familiar and I looked her up im like, yeah, I don't know who this woman is. So I mean she was she did a good job, but to be fair, I'm still not quite sure her purpose, you know, I mean, because it's not really a love interest because nothing really happens there. I don't know it. I seem like they force fed that character. I don't even know if she's an actual character. I didn't look at I didn't find if she was or not. I think it's a situation where they're just like, hey, before this movie becomes nothing but a male perform a male cast, like we have to have at least one or two and you know, we can throw the mom in there, which I thought was a little that's a little forced, like you know, mom's like her. Well, I mean, I'm not saying anything bad about the character or the or the performance. I'm just saying I don't know. I've been to events, and maybe it was different in nineteen thirteen, but you couldn't just run up to the the you know, the eighteenth hole at the US Open. Well, I don't care who you are.

25:59 To be fair, they didn't have those kind of crowds then either. They didn't start using ropes and things like that until Almad Palmer and so when he started getting famous. So this that shot where they there's like hundreds of people on the on the fairway is just that's just Hollywood. That's Hollywood. One more, one more person I want to talk about, Uh, just a you know, quick one, young Harry Varden who was facing off against the creepy guys who are wanting to a victim. That was James Paxton. That's that's Bill Paxton's son, right, and guy, so he leaves college, he was studying journalism, leaves college to pursue a career in film.

26:39 I was I was kind of impressed to see that the body of work. He has had nothing to do with his dad's movies or dad's dad's work. You know, he kept busy. You know, he's taking small roles in films and television. Last year, Dayton, he actually took a small role in Twisters. He played character Cody. Yeah, he played the character Cody, And he said he he did that just as a way to honor his dad and his presence in that that that film universe. I thought that was kind of cool. That's very cool. That's very cool. Yeah, so we know this is a true story. Uh. The movie is adapted from Mark Frost's two thousand and two book The Greatest Game Ever Played, Harry Varden, Francis Swimmet and the Birth of Modern Golf. Good good, good move on cutting that title down, because.

27:27 Yeah, a little bit. That's a little long, Yeah, a little long. Yeah. Yeah. They shot this in Montreal, shot on location at the Knawaukee Golf Club where I guess the changes they made to the to the course and to the the buildings they actually liked there, like, yeah, we're keeping it well. Yeah. Apparently they painted the caddy shop yellow I think it was, and they liked it. They just left it, let's believe alone. Yeah, it's usually not that way. Usually, when the Hollywood comes in and does stuff to your you know, your area, you have to fix it up because they left it disarray. But I do want to mention one of the actors that really stuck out to me because I don't think he got what he deserved. But uh, Peter Peter Firth that played Lord Northcliff, you know, basically the one dick.

28:14 Oh my god, he's terrible. His character was a dick like yeah, you know, yeah the. Whole time, he's just rubbing you the wrong way, you know, and uh yeah, he he just oh, he was every He's the villain. He's the villain. I could have He's a scene where he I could I totally you know, we got a lot of rain in this movie. I totally could have enjoyed a scene where he slips and like falls in like a mud pit or into into a bunk or something. You know, give I give the guy a little bit of come up. And because he doesn't get it, he you know, he's like, I'm a I'm a snooty British, you know, high society guy. I'm the bad guy. And you know he doesn't technically get what he wants at the end, but he still doesn't get punished, right, goes back to Britain being a dick. So yes, yeah, that guy was good though he he If you if you need one person to just not like to dislike in this movie, it's definitely that guy. One thing movies always have to do, they have to ratchet up the the uh, the tension, right the drama. True stories are no different.

29:19 It's it's adapted from the book, so we can we can play around a little bit. Obviously, Dayton. You know, we get this exciting conclusion where Francis wins by singing a putt on the eighteenth hole. Right. In real life, we met defeated Harry Varden by five strokes, right, he had the he had the Birdie parr on seventeen and eighteen. Varden had a bogey double bogie. I I'm totally cool with them changing this, yeah, change in history because like if this, if they kept it the same, like I would have been like, yeah, okay, we's got this locked up. You know why why even you know. You could have still done it. It could have been one of those things where you know.

30:02 I mean, he's got it locked up, it's done. So here's my thing, there's ways you could have done it because one of my issues, like I said, is that there's not enough time with us getting Francis to getting to know the other people. And I think a little less golf would have been Okay, it wouldn't have had has been as impactful. But yeah, I mean it works. It's it's exciting and you know, yeah, they even changed. I think the seventeen was supposed to be a dog leg left on the original course. It's a dog leg right on this one. So it does because isn't that the one where uh Varden tries to hit it over the trees and tries to suffer Francis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so no, it's yes, it's definitely more exciting this way.

30:52 It's it's very Hollywood. Yeah, it's got to build. Yeah that's fine. I mean, I mean, you're you're you're kind of hollyoo would like I remember the last time you and I were on the golf course, I know, going to the eighteenth. I know you had me by like probably ten strokes and it was like I was like, I don't even know why I'm bothering, but you know, we're gonna we're gonna count this up dating. Oh come on, you you uh you you you definitely defeated me that day. Whatever. Uh talking about the you know, the shots though, there's scenes in this movie that I absolutely love, you know, the the the action which two to make a round of golf, you know, as exciting as they do in this movie, it takes something. I think the cinematography is incredible.

31:41 Some of the shots are absolutely amazing. But I'm gonna be fair and say some of the shots aren't. Did you get that feeling that you got that because there's a couple of there's a couple of shots. I'll tell let's get this out of the way. Let's talk about a couple of shots that maybe definitely should not have been this movie. Maybe maybe maybe we're bad decisions because I got one. But I want to. I wanna, I want to. I want to give you first crack at it. What bothered you? Okay, So there is a lot. First of all, there's a lot of camera movement that is unnecessary. Like you know, sometimes it sets up a shot. Sometimes it's just the hey, we're moving the camera around, but the one shot it moves around to underneath Francis. So we see the ball on the green and he puts.

32:23 We're like, underneath the ball. Yeah, there's no you don't see the of course you don't see the green or whatever, but yeah, underneath the bat. And I'm like, that's unnecessary because because me knowing how far away he was, he didn't even hit the ball that hard at all. It was like because you had to get it within the frame, and so it just didn't work. But the shots that really bothered me were the runs that reminded me of Happy Gilmore, where the camera's falling right behind the ball. You have that ball. Yes, it drove me nuts. It's it's out of place in this film, latly out of place. I kind of feel like Paxton was trying to make it excite, but he was trying too hard. He was being very gimmicky with the shots and with the sound effects, and you can make you can make a golf movie exciting. I mean, Tin Cup is my favorite golf movie. And they don't they don't resort to these gimmicky shots. Same thing with the with the the scoreboard, with the flipping let you know, numbers and everything all over the place, and like that's unnecessary.

33:23 We don't we don't need that. I think he was trying to about the slash cuts of like a seventeenth hole, you know. Yeah, then when it comes to there's a wide shot, all the all the numbers are flipping like they're all changing. I'm just like, that's just not necessary. You could have saved money and done something else. Yeah, okay, so in the saving money, I don't know what they spent on this shot, but it's probably the one shot that I just I can't stand. And it's it's when we we get a super close shot of the ball and then a lady bug comes to plans on it. There's no point to that. There's absolutely point of that. Dude just destroys the ball, you know, with with his swing and we slowed down long enough to see that the lady bug has flown off the ball mid strike and it's flying around. I just like, it's like I said, why are we doing it?

34:16 It's it's not even necessary. It does nothing, It doesn't for the story, it doesn't further the character. It didn't matter, you know. And some of those shots were just hey, look what we can do, and it just I don't think it really drove the story and as as fantastic as the montage, the raining uh day was it once again felt like, OK, well, I'm sorry, I just I didn't think it was all that necessary. All right, Well, okay, you you you brought that up. So I do want to talk about some shots, some scenes that I that I did enjoy. Uh you know, get it, get your take on it. Let's let's do let's let's talk about some noteworthy scenes and maybe maybe we find the pivotal moment or you find a pivotal moment for the movie for yourself. So you kind of alluded to this one earlier. Dad forbids young Francis from skipping school to see Harry Varden in town. Mom insists he skipped school to help her carry groceries, but actually takes them to see Harry Varden.

35:17 Right. I love this scene because it hits close to home for me. And I'm not saying my dad forbid me from going to see something or do something, but I specifically remember a day where my mom kept me home from school. You know, I wasn't feeling good. She felt I wasn't well enough to go to school, but she did think I was well enough to go to the movies, and she took me to see Rainbow two, and I was like, my mom is the coolest mom ever, Like this is you know, because my dad had taken me to see plenty of awesome movies. I never really had that experience with my mom until she did that. And it was an awesome day. And that's one of my it's it's such a fond memory for me, between me and my mom and when she's when I see I see Francis' mom giving him this opportunity, you know, and he I love the fact that he, you know, Varden's asking for a volunteer. He jumps, he jumps up on there, teaches him, teaches him the grip. You know, fantastic. You know, that's still that's still known as the Varden grip. Everyone talks about that if you play golf. Love that scene.

36:28 Yeah, it's a fun scene, especially since of course this first swing he throws up there, he does a really poor job, and then he fixes it. I like how he looks at him, gives him some advice, shows him the grip, and then the next shot he hits it really well into the whole crowd's like, you know, whatever. But the only complaint I had is I kind of wish we'd come back to that. Like every time that Francis and Harry Varden were in a scene together, I kept waiting for Francis to say, you probably don't remember, but you showed me how to swing the club, and if it's it is at and if they're willing to change the end of the tournament for the movie, I thought that would have been a really fun scene. And I think that was an opportunity missed.

37:10 I agree, I agree. I kept waiting for it, like, here's the reveal. He's gonna find out that this kid's here because of him, right, But they never even in the locker room at the end. They never had that moment where it came full circle. I was missed opportunity. I'll give you that. That that's that's a bogie for sure. So you were you're starting to complain about a rain scene, and and you said montage. And here's the thing. There's two training there's two montages, uh, and they both they both deal with rain. So I want to talk about the training montage in the rain back you know, be here at sun up.

37:51 You know, that's fantastic I love that one. That's that he's they're just hitting golf balls, and yet that seems like you would see that in a in a rocky montage. It had it had it had rocky montage energy to that scene. I love that scene. It might be my favorite scene. Yeah, okay, see I love that one, the one. A fan of We'll get there, We'll get you're swinging your club's wild man, settle down, I do. I you know that that montage is great? And then it it it segues right into him burning six straight holes to make it into the US Open, and I thought, that's awesome. I love that scene. That probably my favorite moment. I'm not saying it's the pivotal scene. I'm just saying it's probably my favorite scene. We already talked about the collection of dad shitting on son's hopes and dreams, so we'll skip over that. I think we cover that already. Uh.

38:46 But then day two of the open we get another rain montage. I think we get some great cinematography. I think Brian Tyler's score is amazing. But you don't like this scene, so let's talk about it. Tell me your side here, Okay, So I will agree that it looks really good. It looks great, and you're right, the music is fantastic. But once again, it felt like it went on a bit too long, and once again he was being very gimmicky with the scoreboard, and these are all things that I think he was trying really hard to be different and trying really hard to make golf exciting. And that's fine. It just felt like a little bit too much. I don't hate it. I just kind of felt like it was, like I said, a little too long, and it was a little out of place with the rest of the vibe of the film.

39:35 You know that. It just I don't know. I didn't hate it. I just thought there could have been better choices. All right, Well, let's talk about one more scene. I think you and I will agree on this one. How about it being a great scene. I'm gonna call this the pivotal moment for me. Okay again, let's let's go back to this very tough, very adorable caddie, Eddie Lowry. I'm talking about the don't ever talk to my caddy again. Yes, yes, these bullies, man, these these these stuffed shirts are like, hey, you know you need you know we're going to the final day, you need someone out there that could give you real advice. And they've they basically have told this kid like, well we'll pay him, well, we'll buy him off. Well, he's fine, get him out of here. And I love the fact that Francis sticks to the friendship yep and says, hey, don't don't worry about what those guys are saying. You're with me. You know. I love that moment, very heartfelt moment, because this kid is upset, he is absolutely just destroyed.

40:37 Yeah, and he even said I wouldn't do it for ten bucks. I wouldn't do it for one hundred. You know, they wouldn't. He wouldn't leave him. So absolutely, that's actually I I would say that's probably the pivotal moment for me because at that point, Francis has he knows who he is, he's he's come to terms with the situation. He stood up for his friend. He's not afraid to tell these people, you know that have basically said you don't belong here whatever. He stood up to him, said don't ever talk to my caddie again. And he wasn't afraid of him. And after that, you watch that scene, you know, whether you know the outcome or not from history. You know he's gonna win now because he's he he he is leveled up as a person.

41:21 Yes, yeah, absolutely, he and these guys in real life they got they remain close friends like the rest of their lives. Yep. I just love that he defended him in that way. And then even at the end, like when we get the big win and they're throwing him up on their shoulders and everyone's you know, we know that Francis cannot win money, and all these these rich people on the course, they're all throwing money and handing him money, and he's like, put it in the hat for Eddie, give it to Eddie, passed the hat around to Eddie. I I that maybe just I mean, you can't root for Francis any more than you already have been. But how he how he takes care of Eddie makes me root for him even more.

42:05 So let's take one last break and when we come back, we'll wrap things up. So Dayton, you've been here a time or three. Uh, you know, we like to talk about the director, and you know what three films would you recommend if someone wasn't familiar with their body of work? Sadly, we only have two films directed by Bill Paxton, and as of this episode, we've talked about both of them because we kicked like I said, as I said, we kicked off the month with Frailty. So I'm gonna ask you what I've been asking everybody, which three films would you suggest that they watch for Bill Paxton? And I'm talking this whether you think it's like, hey, you need to see these because it's either amazing performances or I just love him in this movie. And here's why, Like what three? What three Bill Paxton movies would you suggest?

42:58 Well, it's always funny watching him a Terminator because he's only on screen for like a minute and he dies. But Aliens is a good one to go through because, like I said before, I quote so many of his lines and he is he's just funny and he's kind of tough on that movie. He has a lot of personality in that one. So it's a lot of fun to watch him. True Lies has the sleazy guy that's you know, trying to seduce sports nigger. It's white Jami the Curtis, and he definitely gets what's coming to him. So he's just hilarious he has. He really shows a different level of comedy chops in that one. And one that I think really showed how good of a dramatic actor he could be was a Simple Plan.

43:42 I absolutely I've been waiting for someone to say simple Plan. Thank you for that, because we covered it. It's a it's one of it's it's a very underrated Sam Raimi film. We covered it, I think in our first season. Love him in a Simple Plan. Yeah, he's so good. I mean the film is good too, but he really Yeah, he carries a lot of the weight in that one, for sure. He absolutely does. Great suggestions, Thank you for that, Dayton. The Greatest Game ever played is currently streaming on Disney Plus. Is that where you watched it? Or do you have a copy of this one? No? I do not have a copy. I did watch it on Disney Plus. All right, And I would have to imagine you recommend this one, correct, I do. It's definitely worth viewing. You know, it comes from the studio that gave us called Runnings and like I said, Miracle whatever. It's not quite on the level of those, but it's definitely entertaining and worth a watch.

44:34 Well, listeners, what do you think of Bill Paxton's The Greatest Game Ever Played? Have you seen it? Did we get this one wrong? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x. You can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for all of our episodes streaming on the platform of your choice. We've got a couple of articles we've written there, some movie reviews. You can write to us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show, and if we do, we'll always send you some of our film biaswag. So, Dayton, what what do you got coming up? What's been doing on this month over on Documbent seventy seven.

45:14 Well, actually, it's been a very busy month. We've had a lot of special guests over here. So our friends from the All Eighties Movies podcast, Bill and Jason, we invited them to pick a film that they couldn't discuss on theirs. So we have a Sam Raimi film. So Bill picked Dark Dark Man, so we're looking forward to discussing that one. Jason picked District Nine, which is another fantastic sci fi movie. I'm looking at I'm very excited to talk about our friend from the thirty seventy movie podcast, John Reid. He'll be joining us for our review of Solo, a Star Wars story, because I have to do at least one Star Wars film every year, and and we will count down our top seven film villains as well.

45:54 So that's gonna be a really fun episode. And just to brag a little bit. In June, we are hitting a two hundredth episode. We're reviewing Steven Soderbergh's remake of Votions eleven. That is a pretty packed may. I cannot wait to hear the seven Villains because I'm probably gonna assume I'm assuming what you're calling seven villains. I'm probably gonna hear a couple of anti heroes or heroes or misunderstood people, because that's that's how that's how I do it. I'm looking forward to hearing hearing that one go down. Is mostly based on people on their on how they died and whether their death was was worthy or not.

46:35 Oh wow, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta ask you something. Actually, I gotta challenge you, I said earlier. You know, I kind of I kind of I had to. I had to give credit where credit was due. The last time you and I faced off on the golf course, we played eighteen holes and you just you you beat the pants off me. Man. I I was just I was couldn't believe it. So I'm going to challenge you, uh to the podcast open and I say, uh, you know it's May. So I say, let's get out there in June. Let's let's let's pick a let's pick a day and uh, let's let's play another eighteen and winner. I'm gonna say, winner gets to guests on the Loser Show and choose the topic.

47:21 I'm down for that. You're up for that? All right? Of course you heard it here. All right. If we're lucky, we maybe I can get day Burns out there. He can, he can take some video. We can we can make something out of this. We'll get it. We'll get a bunch of the podcast group out there. And hey, the podcast open, manya. Podcast open and everything. I want to thank you again, Dayton uh for for coming and talking Disney and golf and and Bill Paxton with me, and UH to all of you listening to the show, following us on social media and subscribing, to our Patreon, We thank you. M.