Christopher Nolan - The Prestige

0:00 Are you listening closely? For the past two weeks, we've been focused on a very talented Oscar-winning director. And in order to discuss today's film, we need to begin that conversation with Christopher Priest. Amber, does that name mean anything to you? Yes. Christopher Priest, for those of you that don't know, is a talented author who wrote an award-winning novel in 1995. Four years later, a very talented Oscar-winning director discovers the novel that Priest has written and decides that he wants to adapt it into a feature film. Obviously, Amber, Christopher Priest is not about to turn down an offer like that.

0:48 No, I mean, that's the dream, right? Except he did! Yeah! Well, sort of. After his latest film, American Beauty, wins five of the seven Academy Awards it's nominated for. Director Sam Mendes chooses Christopher Priest's novel, The Prestige, as his next picture. And days before Christopher Priest prepares to finalize a deal with Sam Mendes, a package arrives to his house by motorcycle carrier And inside is a VHS copy of the film Following and a rival offer from an unknown writer-director named Christopher Nolan. Christopher Priest watches Nolan's directorial feature film, Following, loves it, and decides to make the deal with Nolan in an effort to support a new filmmaker over a famous one.

1:53 Which, I love that. That idea of, you know, lifting someone up is awesome. Yes. But also, like, 1995 Sam Mendes, I don't know that I would have trusted with this. Like, now Sam Mendes, yes, but. Okay, but you're not. I mean, with all respect to Christopher Priest, he's not John Grisham. He's not Stephen King. Right. He's a talented author, but he's not world-renowned, you know? He doesn't get to say no. So when an Oscar winner says, yes, I want your book. Well, and what are the odds it would have turned out to be Christopher Nolan?

2:36 Yes. Like a genius is going to make your book into a movie. He didn't know. None of us knew. I think he knew. He had a hunch because he watched Following. Yes. We covered Following. It's brilliant. It's a brilliant film. I think it's still on Tubi, by the way. All the pieces of Nolan are there. We see the genius that will come from a movie like Following. Let's talk about a film by Christopher Nolan. His 2006 mysterious. Sci-fi period thriller, The Prestige. Hello, everybody. I'm Jeff Johnson.

3:40 I'm Amber Lewis. And this is a Film By Podcast. And Amber's back. You were missed last week. I got to tell you. I would say that I missed you guys, but my company had sweet tickets to. The Reds game that. I got to partake of. And let me tell you, there's no going back to like. No. When you said you were sitting in the owner's box, I was like, that's it for her. She'll never want to see a ball game again. So spoiled. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great time, but I did miss talking about Memento, though. But you guys did an awesome job. That episode is hilarious.

4:22 Okay, so listeners, if you haven't listened to Memento yet, you're in for something special. It's something a little different. Yeah, our last episode, it may be one of my all-time favorites, but man, did it test my editing skills. Yeah. Amber, I loved what you had to say. You sent me a text message with a bunch of laughing emoji, and it said, you're a psychopath. I was like, what the fuck is wrong with this edit? And then I was like, all capitals, oh my God, of. Course, exclamation mark. You weren't alone, though. You weren't alone.

5:05 Chris Webber, who, big supporter of the show, we love Chris, He wrote, Jeff, I am starting to listen to the Memento episode. Did you play this one in reverse? If so, genius. Love it. Eric Durth wrote, you guys are always coming up with cool shit. And then I like this one. Tom spelled T-H-O-M. Yeah. Tom emailed us writing, I actually cussed at Spotify, assuming something was wrong with the app. Then it clicked. And I was like, F dash. Oh, he's like, okay. He doesn't want to type the word, the F word.

5:51 He's, he's doing like the whatever, but he was like that himself. He was, yeah, he censored himself in his email. Very, very classy Tom with it, with a, with an H. I was like, F word. They're actually doing this. And then he, You know, S-H-I, you know, S-H-T. F word. They're actually doing this shit backwards. Three question marks. Blew my mind. Exclamation point. I was on board with it until you played our theme song backwards, and I was like, nope, don't like that. Did you notice how creepy it sounds? It was so creepy.

6:32 I did not. Something at Twin Peaks. I was like, I have to do it just because that's memento, right? Yes. And I was like, holy shit, that's some Tales from the Dark side. But yeah, I was listening to it on the Patreon. Because it's early and ad-free. Yeah, you got it ad-free. So I thought there was something wrong with Patreon. I was like, this didn't upload right. I got to call them. I got to be honest. It was a gamble because I'm thinking, okay. I know Scott is going to be– it's always a great time talking to Scott. You know that. Yes. But I'm like, this is going to be a Christopher Nolan episode without Amber. How do I still make it like an awesome episode?

7:14 How do you make it spectacular without me? Without the voice of reason, what can I do? And I knew it was a gamble because I was like– like the night before, Scott has no idea. Scott had no idea. Oh, no. I got to be– listen, all the credit to Scott Hoffman who– was like, yeah, I'd love to talk about this movie. So the night before, I'm like, wait a minute, I got it. I'm going to memento the memento episode. But how do you do this where it makes sense? So I told Scott after the fact, and he was like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened. I kind of was very clever with how I prompted Scott with questions and how.

7:56 I I kept coming– and he was doing it for me without even realizing. Like the theme of whether or not– Maybe we. Talked about this or we're going to talk about it. Well, the way the main character, is he the victim or is he the villain? Scott just started doing the work for me and bringing it back. So it was a fun time. Listeners, if you haven't listened to it yet, your app is not. Busted. There's nothing wrong. No, just relax and enjoy it. Just buckle up and enjoy the ride, because if you like Memento, you'll like it. Amber, you mentioned Patreon. Gotta talk, gotta shout out, we got a new Patreon member. Yay!

8:36 Comannon? I hope I'm saying that right. Comannon recently joined, so welcome. Welcome! Yeah. Now, he joined as a free member, which means he. Does get access to some exclusive content because we occasionally drop Patreon exclusive episodes for free. We've done it more than a. Bunch of times. So listen, if you haven't done so yet, go to www.patreon.com slash afilmbypodcast. There's a link in the show notes. You can sign up today. If you want access to all the exclusive episodes, you can do so for as little as $ 3 a month.

9:17 There's a few tiers that cost a little bit more, a couple bucks more. But with those, you get the stickers and the t-shirts and the cups. The color-changing cups. There's all kinds of cool shit we got, Amber. And the ability to request an episode of your choice. That's our Patreon requests feature. Those are fun. Yeah. We get to talk about some cool movies thanks to our Patreon family. And as you mentioned, Amber, by the way, we now offer the new episodes online. They're there early, usually a day or two early, and they are always ad-free. So, Tom, if you're listening to this episode, don't cuss at Spotify for the app not working. You can cuss at them for the ads, but look, we can't stop that.

9:58 We can't control that. The show's got to make a couple bucks, right? Right. Got to keep the lights on. Got to keep the lights on. But if you don't want the ads, give us three bucks or five or ten or more. We're always taking more, Amber. I mean, and they get more control. Yeah, you get a little bit more say. So why not? Amber, I'm going to tell you. Three things about christopher nolan that you already know but. But i'm always waiting for a tidbit that maybe i. I overlooked but yeah well okay so i'll i'll tell well you know maybe we'll see i'm all right well i'll test you i'll test you oh god speaking of testing patreon members if you're listening to this right now if you're listening on patreon well then well then you got to early.

10:44 You got it ad-free. You're also going to get a little bonus content because I've got something... When we take. Our Patreon break later, and you'll know, we're going to talk about... Amber's got some fun suggestions. She loves to break the rules, but this time she was like, I want to make some suggestions. I was like, I love all these suggestions. I want to hear what she has to say. So, for our Patreon members only, you guys will get to hear some fun suggestions from Amber regarding Christopher Nolan or Christopher Nolan-related... adjacent type films. I also have a fun little challenge. And we'll get into that when we talk about the Patreon exclusive stuff, Amber, later on.

11:24 But for now, three things you may not know about Christopher Nolan. And let's start, let's just start with the test. Does Amber know him? Amber, what famous drink does Christopher Nolan happen to enjoy while he's on set? Oh, merciful heavens. I'm going to say tea. Yes. Can you give me the exact? Because he's English. Yes, but can you give me the exact? I'll give you a hint. Earl Grey hot. I'm going to show my Star Trek colors. Okay. Just like Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Christopher Nolan enjoys drinking Earl Grey tea while he's on set. I was going to give you a Star Trek. I don't know if.

12:05 I pulled that out of the ether and I really knew it or if I. Was just lucky. You're a Star Trek fan. Shout out to We've got Phaser sets a stun. That's like every Wednesday. Oh, my boys. Yeah. They're doing Strange New Worlds Season 4 right now. They're doing the recap of that. All year long, they've been doing the 60th anniversary of the original Star Trek. So if you're a first-time listener, if you didn't know we had a Star Trek series that happens every Wednesday, now you do. Oh, it's so good. Phaser set the stun. Okay, so Amber does know what Christopher Nolan enjoys drinking while he's on set. You definitely know this one, Amber. I'm not going to try and quiz you here. But listeners, in 2024, he was knighted by King Charles III, making him Sir Christopher Nolan, which also, Amber, bestows the title of Dame to his wife, Emma Thomas, which I didn't know that.

12:59 I didn't know it automatically. Yes. You hear like Dame Judi Dench, right? Yes. She has the honor. I didn't know if you become a Sir– that your wife automatically becomes a dame. I wondered if you're like, if you're, if you're damed, if you have, if, if like damehood, I guess you'd call it, does the husband automatically become a sir? I wonder. I don't think it works that way, but I'm not sure. We've got a lot of retro like that. Oh, okay. We got a lot of listeners in the UK. Um, I'd love to hear from one of them. Yeah. Let us know. Explain it. Explain it to us. All right. One more thing here. Amber, what is Christopher Nolan's all time?

13:39 Favorite film. Oh, I don't know. I feel like it's maybe a Kubrick. Well, as we learned last week, Kubrick is one of his influences, but this happens to be a Ridley Scott film. I'm stuck on. You guys were talking about his favorite Bond film. Yep. That was on Her Majesty's Secret Service. Yes. But his favorite Bond is Timothy Dalton, which I love because he's my favorite Bond. I'm like, oh, we had that in common. We're looking for a Ridley Scott film. So a Ridley Scott film? All-time favorite. All-time favorite. Oh, gosh. I don't know. My all-time favorite is Aliens. I'm going to say Alien.

14:22 We were looking for Blade Runner. I don't really like Blade Runner. Oh, wow. It's not a– I need to watch it again, though. I haven't seen it in decades. Not for this episode, but maybe another time. We might have to talk. Because now I'm wondering which version of Blade Runner that you have. Seen or haven't seen. There's like three different cuts. Oh, goodness. Yeah. I need to re-watch it. We need to do an episode. Yeah, we could talk. I'll always talk Blade Runner. Right? Yeah. All right. Especially if the maestro likes it, then it's definitely worth another shot. One thing our maestro doesn't like, Amber Lewis... Not a fan of this next piece, but we're doing it anyways because the listeners love it, Amber. Amber Lewis, in exactly five words, tell me what the prestige is all about.

15:20 Obsessive magicians destroy each other. That's good. That's real good. I think it's kind of boring. You think it's kind of boring? I was trying to get clever with it, and I just couldn't. I was trying to use... The pledge, the turn, and the prestige, but it's too many words, and. I couldn't make it work. All right. I got one for you. I was wanting to be clever, and I got three words into it, and I was like, I can't do what I want to do. I was trying to use the letter C for every word. Oh, that would have been good. I couldn't. I got halfway there. Five words, Amber. I got cutthroat competition consumes obsessed magicians.

16:03 So we almost said the same thing. Yeah. I've really been in sync with you on these five-word synopsis. Angela Norris, we had the same exact one on the Super Ex-Girlfriend episode. So it's weird. It's really weird. You guys are– you're in my head. Amber, I know you are always teaching us about the French language. Oh, boy. But no French here. Prestige. From the Latin word prestigium means juggler's trick, illusion, deceit, or delusion. By the 1650s, however, prestige was commonly used by magicians to define their illusions on stage. I think there's been a class to that, calling it the prestige.

16:58 I like it. Yes, I love that opening with Michael Caine explaining– how a magic trick works as he performs the birdcage trick. Every magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called the pledge. The magician shows you something ordinary, a deck of cards, a bird, or a man. But of course, it probably isn't. The second act is called the turn. The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now, you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it. Because, of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to.

17:58 Know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough. You have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act. The hardest part. The part we call the prestige. Michael Caine could talk to me about my extended car warranty. Or he could read the phone book and I'd be blissful because he's Just to listen to him is a treat.

18:43 As you said, though, you're talking about your five-word synopsis, trying to get it all in. An actual magic trick consists of three elements, the pledge, the turn, and the prestige, as expertly described by Sir. Michael Caine at the beginning of this movie. I think what is so impressive about this film, as well as the screenplay written by Christopher Nolan and Jonathan Nolan... Is that the structure of the story plays out like an actual magic trick? Yes. It's so good. I mean, I got to ask. Did you figure it out? Think back to the first time you watched The Prestige. Did you have it figured out? Did you have it worked out in your head ahead of time? Or can you admit that you were completely fooled? Because I was completely fooled.

19:30 No, I got the Borden reveal. You got that early? Yeah. Early, early, early. Wow. And then because not to take anything away from Christian Bale's performance, but his performance is almost too good. in that if you're paying attention, you can definitely see two different people. Okay, but here's the thing about it. Like a good magic trick, it's all about showing you what's happening over here so that you're not paying attention to what's over there. So the first time I'm watching this, all I'm obsessed with is who is Fallon? Why won't he speak? He is so mysterious. He's so enigmatic. Who is, and I'm not, I mean, bail is right there hidden in, in plain sight. And I'm just not thinking about it.

20:27 You know, I'm thinking of, I want to know who he is and why it's the, I. Don't know that I got that. He was Fallon. I definitely knew he was a twin. Okay. Oh, okay. So– I definitely got that. Okay. And again– I don't know that I knew. He was Fallon. Because again– I don't remember, but yeah. This trick is all about, yeah, people– you always use a lookalike or you use a– You use a double. Twins do it. You use a double. So I was always like– okay, so you're thinking, well, yeah, Borden is a twin, but you're not thinking Fallon's a twin. So in essence– No, I thought Fallon was just like a guy. Just Fallon, yeah. So– But that's the brilliance of this performance is that the whole time Bale's right there.

21:11 Yes. Do you think there's enough clues along the way? Because this is one of those movies, it's so fun to go back and watch it. Over and over and over. Oh my gosh, yes. Are there enough clues along the way for someone to get the big reveal, do you think? Did Nolan plan enough breadcrumbs for you to go, oh, why didn't I listen to that or why didn't I think about that? Oh my gosh, yes, because– There's a line at the very beginning when Angiers starts reading Borden's diary. Yeah. And he says the diary begins right after we first met. Okay. When we were working with Milton. And you see them sitting in the audience and the voiceover is Borden saying, we were just two young blokes, like... Trying to make our way in the world. We never wanted to hurt anybody.

22:08 And because you're looking at him and Angiers in the audience, you think that's who he's talking about. But he's really talking about himself and his brother. Yes. Okay. And that's in like the first five minutes. Yeah. Well. And there's a lot of breadcrumbs along the way. Like one of my favorite scenes that will. talk about later is one of those breadcrumbs that is so subtle, but I just love it. Does the, does the breadcrumb involve the little boy? Yes. Okay. I won't, I won't, I won't step on it then. We'll, we'll talk about it later. Um, but just, okay, well, I'm going to kick that down. I'm excited to talk about this. No, no, no, no, you've, I'm, I'm happy to talk about it, but it's even stuff like, like Sarah's cryptic statement before she, she kills herself. She doesn't say, and this is great. She doesn't say.

23:02 I know who you are. She says, I know what you are. I think even more than that when she says, well, he tells her he loves her and she says, today you mean it. Today you mean it. But you don't always. Yeah. But that I know what you are, that's Rebecca Hall's mistake, reading the line wrong. Oh no. She tells Christopher Nolan, she says, hey, I'm so sorry. I I think I just gave away the ending. Yeah. And he says, no, the way you deliver that line. You could take that so many ways. True, yeah. I know what you are. She's hurt. She's in pain, right? That's the last thing she's going to say to her husband before she meets a tragic end. So I think that's fantastic. There's little things. Obviously, you're never going to pick up. on it like the first time you watch it but i love like when you go back and you're thinking wait a minute borden's wife dies by hanging and jeer's wife dies by drowning and what ultimately happens to these two guys their fates are intertwined it's really cool um not one but two big twists at the end uh which one did you enjoy more.

24:19 Well there's like three or four twists at the end, I feel like. So that's why I'm struggling with answering. Okay, so the two reveals I'm talking about is Borden, all along Borden is. A twin, right? That's a big reveal. Yes. And with Angier, how has he been doing this trick? And then you find out the whole cloning. Yes, that was definitely the bigger reveal to me to the point that When I rewatched this the other day, I realized that there's a good, I don't know, five, ten minutes after the Angier's reveal. Yeah. There's still like a denouement of the movie and an end to the story.

25:09 And that is always blown completely out of my mind because that reveal is so huge to me. Yeah. I mean, there's twist after twist. For me, though, Borden being twins all along, working together to live as both Albert and Fallon, it blew my mind once I realized. Because like I said, the first time I watched it, I'm like, who is this guy? And then you realize, like I said, he's been there all along, hiding in plain sight. And it's just under some stagecraft and disguises. I love that you see, like. Nolan gives us the shot of them Okay, now you put in, here's the fake teeth, and here's the padded stomach, and here's the mutton chops.

25:50 It's absolutely brilliant. We've got lots to talk about, Amber. Let's take a quick break, and when we get back, we'll talk a little bit about this cast. Welcome back. Amber Lewis and myself discussing Christopher Nolan's The Prestige. His original choices for the leads of this film were Jude Law and Guy Pearce. Do you still enjoy this movie with that casting? Does it work for you? If you consider the time period, and this is like talented Mr. Ripley era Jude Law. Ooh, okay.

26:32 Yes. I don't know about Guy Pearce. I mean, he's just worked with him in Memento. Yes. We know what he's capable of, right? Yeah, like Guy Pearce could do anything. But yeah, I don't know about this movie, but I mean, I wouldn't have cast him in Priscilla Queen of the Desert either, and he's awesome in that. We talked about that last week, like the casting director. This guy is in L.A. Confidential and Priscilla Queen of the Desert. And it's the same guy? Yeah, he can literally do anything. Okay, I couldn't dig up this information, but if you've got Jude Law and Guy Pearce, who are you casting as who? Who's playing Borden and who's playing Angier?

27:22 I think Jude Law's got to be Borden. Am I wrong, or what do you think? I don't know. I see Jude Law as being the more stagecraft kind. Of, Okay. Character, the flashier. More performer, the showman? Yes, the showman. I guess, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Plus, he's so damn gorgeous. Like, I don't know that you could hide him as two people. You'd have to use a lot of makeup. Oh, man. Christian Bale listened to this episode like, what's she saying about me? That's not what I meant. No, I know. Yeah, he played Patrick Bateman. He's a specimen. We know. So, remember, this impressive cast includes Christian Bale, Sir Michael Caine, Hugh Jackman, Scarlett Johansson, Andy Serkis, Rebecca Hall, who all pretty much joined.

28:07 The MCU or a version of the DC a few years down the road. I feel like the real shame here is that we didn't get a scene with Michael Caine and Andy Serkis together. Because they both play Alfred in Batman movies. I would have enjoyed that. I loved that I forgot that Andy Serkis was in this movie. Oh, yeah. Character entrance his character's in the distance and you can't see him you just hear his voice and the minute i heard his voice i knew it. Was him like andy such a such a cool. Guy that they gave him you know uh what has it got in its pockets is kind of yeah i thought that was really funny the.

28:50 Him giving doing a call back to gollum from lord of the rings with the with you know the pocket thing you know pocket trick i was like dude i Nolan is just super cool. I have to believe they wrote it on the day. Or after they cast him or something. That's like, hey, we got Andy Serkis. Let's have some fun. I would hope. Yeah. Absolutely. Interesting question here, Amber. Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman. Which character do you find yourself supporting through this movie? Oh, Christian Bale. Always. I hate Hugh Jackman so much in this movie. You hate him? I cannot stand him. He is such a jerk. He is the one that escalates everything. Okay. You know, now, having said that, the Albert side of Christian Bale's character is much preferable to the Frederick side. But, yeah, I still find him a million percent more sympathetic character than Angier's ever was. Okay.

29:59 Well, you.... Just reading the notes because I wasn't asking it. Like, okay, so you're just not even a hint for Angier. I do feel bad for him because of his wife. Well, that's my question. My question is, is he justified because of the death of his wife? Because the interesting thing here is the diary, right? I love the scene with the bullet catch. Yeah. Which not get you to die. Yeah, the scene at the funeral and then the scene with the bullet catch. I think they are both, both men are doing such amazing acting in those scenes because you have this just limitless grief on Angier's face. And you can see you're dealing with the Albert side of Christian Bale, who honestly doesn't know and honestly feels terrible about it.

31:00 Okay, so here's the interesting thing. First off, have you read the novel by Christopher Priest? I have not. We have to get the... We're going to get their hands on this, Amber. I'm going to send you a copy of this. So what's fascinating here, the big change from novel to film is that it's a generational story in the book. Like their kids through the years are like... It's like a feud that just goes... Multi-generation. Yes. Oh, that sounds fascinating. Definitely cool. The other thing, though, is that the novel itself is presented, it's almost like Bram Stoker's Dracula, where it's a collection of journal entries and diaries.

31:45 I love books like that. Yeah, so you're. Getting, because the movie, they each have each other's diaries, right? Their journals. Yes. It's like they're trying to, to get inside each other's heads. Well, and I love like the whole idea that Borden's is ciphered and you have to, it's not just a simple like transition cipher either. It's like, you can't read. This in a calendar. Years. Yeah. It's so complicated. Yeah. But that's the book is their diaries. Yeah. And you're going back and forth in between their diaries basically. And I love the fact, like the question that I don't think can be answered is, is, The rage that Angier has because, you know, what knot did you tie?

32:30 I don't know. How could you not know? And then he finally, he's like, oh, I've cracked the cipher. I'm reading. I'm in his head. And now he gets to the knot part. And Borden writes, to this day, I honestly just don't know. And he's reading, but he's by himself sitting there. He's like, how could he not know? And that's the point where you're like, this guy– Has now gone off the deep end. He's never going to get his answer and that's going to drive his madness. Right. But you're saying like, you know, you're for. Me, that's more significant is when he's arguing with Scarlett Johansson. And he says, I don't care about my wife. I care about the trick.

33:11 Yeah. Yeah. He's. And he says it, he doesn't even mean to say it. It just comes out. And he realizes after the fact, like, Oh yeah. What did I just say? Yeah. Um, But you're more of a Borden fan. And is he more relatable because he's a family man? Sarah's a good woman. They got the kid. Yeah, and I think that he's also more relatable because he does try to mess with Angier's act. Like, there is that you messed up my act, so I'm going to mess up yours kind of element to it. But he's more about the profession and the tricks and the magic and, and jeers is just, he hates him and just wants to destroy him. I mean, he takes it entirely too far. If where we started was, you know, I want your trick and I want your, you know, your mysteries and stuff like Borden was willing to let it go way, way beyond.

34:16 I'll say this. Cause it's such an amazing cast. And I know we're, you know, for the sake of time, we can't just, we can't dwell on everybody, but it was, uh, you know, not over the summer. We, we went to, you know, Martha's Vineyard and we're in, we're in Boston. We're all over the place and we're, we're finding ourselves inexplicably. We're finding ourselves on movie location sets by chance. And then we got to Charlestown. I was like, I can't wait to go home and watch the town. Love the town. And I love Rebecca Hall. And, I forgot that she's in this. She's such a talented actress. Beautiful, beautiful woman.

34:57 I was like, we need more Rebecca Hall. And then I'm putting on prestige for this pod, and I'm like. Oh, Rebecca Hall. And here she is. All right, yeah. Love Rebecca Hall. I mean, ScarJo, what hasn't been said about her? But I'm going to ask you a question. Let's call this the spotlight. Maybe change things up, you know? Okay. I'm going to call it the spotlight. Which actor. or actress do you think stole it? Like, let's talk, like, I want to know from, because I got someone I want to mention. You may have the same person in mind, but I want to give you the first crack at it. Like, one person in this movie that you just, we're moving on, but we're not moving on without talking about this person. Who would it be? Well, there are so many, like, character actors that he throws in that I'm like, oh, it's that guy. Yeah.

35:45 Yeah. But. You're Ricky J's and people like that. Yeah, I get you. Yeah, but my God, when David Bowie shows up as Nikola Tesla, like, my whole heart just glows. Like, it makes me so happy. David Bowie as Nikola Tesla. That is the correct answer, Amber. I have that written down. Amber, he declines this role. This is no thanks. So... Well, he's so... Nolan. Or he was so humble and. Well. Nolan, who is creating a movie about obsession and taking things to the limit, Nolan does what any director in his case would do. Charters a plane and flies to David Bowie's house. He explains to Bowie, like, you are the only person I could imagine performing this role.

36:35 Well, to be fair, Christopher Nolan does not own a cell phone. He does not have an email. Exactly. He likes to be face-to-face with people. He's enigmatic, right? He tells Bowie. hey, you have this larger-than-life persona, and without that, no one will believe Tesla can do what he does. And I guess flattery gets you everywhere with David Bowie because he says, all right, I'm doing it. He changes his mind and he takes the role. It's such a small moment. He's not on screen that long. No. He is so captivating. You can't not be all in on Bowie. As Tesla. I love what he's doing.

37:15 And I'll tell you what, I was so bought in that Tesla had some batshit crazy inventions. And I googled, I was like, did he try to make a transporter? Maybe not a cloner, but did he try to make a transportation device? Because I can believe that he did. Well, that's just it. Yeah, but that's the brilliance of Nolan. Okay, so wait, he did all these crazy things that Okay, so maybe he did try to do transportation. Maybe he was trying to clone people. I don't know. I believe it. You just don't know. You just don't know? What was he doing on that mountain? Who knows? David Bowie.

37:56 I don't know why Christopher Nolan writes the character of Tesla and says, only David Bowie can play this. David Bowie, who's... Well, he's a huge David Bowie fan. Well, okay. The end of Memento. Yeah. During the end credits, we get a Bowie song. Yeah, but if I wrote a script, just because I think James Hetfield from Metallica is awesome, I'm not going to think only James Hetfield could play this role. But if it was a role that only he could do. Oh, you're right. Okay, you got me there. I mean, it's not like we haven't had Bowie in a movie before. Yeah. Made one of the greatest movies.

38:37 1986. Ever. I know it's one of your favorites. Yeah. For a very different reason. But you were just in love with Jennifer Connelly. I was 10 years old. Who wasn't? She was like 15. How could I not be in love with her? I'm still in love with her. I'm not moving on her. I mean, you know, I have respect for her husband. She's got a great husband. I was going to say, Vision will come after you. Yeah. Don't want that. Oh amber i i found this little nugget look it's christopher nolan movie we could be here for another couple of hours talking about the making of and the behind the scenes and by the way i said this on uh i want to say i said this on our our clerks 2 episode just by the blu-ray of the dvd because like kevin kevin smith movie no one always packs his full of fun stuff.

39:30 And the Prestige, I own a copy of it. It's no different. There's all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff and documentary stuff and fun stuff. So check that out. But this one, I gotta talk about, Amber. This movie technically contains the very first... IMAX 70 millimeter film ever used in a feature length film. I read that and I was like, Oh my gosh. And it's, it's just, it's no one filming like Bill's, uh, duplication, you know, when like they're both on the, on the camera or on the scene in the same scene. And he's doing it as a tech, like the dudes, he knows what he's up to. He's like, I'm going to figure out, I'm going to do some scouting, but do some.

40:14 Scouting, uh, Warner Brothers will pay for my research now. It's all a test to see whether IMAX footage can be used during VFX shots and whether or not he can reduce it to 35mm convincingly for like a widescreen release. Because he's doing all this for The Dark Knight, which is going to come out in 2008. And do you remember all the big hoopla where everyone's like, there's an IMAX shot in The Dark Knight. That's just going to blow your mind. You got to see it in IMAX because there's a shot. It's like Okay, so there's 12 minutes of the whole movie is in IMAX. So now we have to go to see it in IMAX, right? And this sets off the whole IMAX craze. I mean, worth it.

40:55 Absolutely worth it. I don't even know if IMAX is what it is without Christopher Nolan. That's where I'm at with it. I mean, he really seems to be the one that's decided this is the medium I'm going to work in. And you all need to catch up. Tom Cruise saved the movie theater experience with Maverick. Christopher Nolan created the movie-going experience with IMAX because, I mean, you saw The Odyssey. I don't have to tell you. How do you watch a movie unless it's a rom-com or something like that? I don't need that on IMAX screen, but it's amazing. Fun little fact here for you. We're talking about The Borden Twins. The novel confirms... That the Borden twins are named.

41:45 Albert and Frederick. And that's why they choose this amalgamation of their names as Alfred. He takes the name Alfred. They take the name Alfred. And that's why Scarlett Johansson's Olivia calls him Freddy, which clearly Sarah, Rebecca Hall's character, does not care for if you watch those scenes closely. Oh, yeah. Kind of winces. But that's– it's letting on the secret of which– I think it's letting on the secret of which twin loved which woman. Yes. Olivia is all about Freddie, right? So Fallon or Frederick, that's who's spending all the time with her, which is kind of cool.

42:26 Again, it's the breadcrumbs. It's like I didn't pick up on that. Well, and another thing is the name of Fallon, Bernard Fallon, is an anagram of Alfred Borden. Holy. How, why am I not even thinking? Okay. So see, even after multiple viewings, I'm discussing it on a pod with you and I'm still figuring out stuff. Yeah. Every time you watch it, there's another clue. Well, and then think about this. You've got Alfred Borden and what is it? Robert Angier? Abra. Abra. abracadabra abracadabra that is not an accident bale says that in the movie like yeah it's a horrible scene but i love it when he says yeah.

43:15 Yeah amber we're gonna take another uh quick break when we get back i know there's a scene that you want to discuss uh you kind of alluded to it at the top of the hour we're going to get to it right after these messages all right so the scene that you would like to discuss amber Let's talk– I mean, and we can talk about a few scenes if you want, but I want to– let's talk. About the scene. Is it the pivotal moment? Is it because of an amazing performance? Is it the cinematography? Is it Nolan's direction? I know that there's not a scene in here that pissed you off, so we'll skip that one. I used that last week. I was like, yeah, I'm going to say this pissed Amber Lewis off. I bet.

43:57 And you were right. I was right, yeah. I messaged you. I was like, you know me too well. I hate that scene. Well, why did you choose a scene that you want to talk about? I guess it would be Christopher and Jonathan Nolan's writing. Oh, okay. Do tell. Tell me about it. Yeah. It's my favorite little breadcrumb. And it's towards the beginning. It's when Alfred has met Olivia. Yes. Yes. And, or no, sorry, Sarah, Alfred, Alfred and Sarah. Yeah. And, um, she brings her nephew to his little magic show that he's doing and he does the birdcage act and the nephew starts to cry and he says he killed it.

44:49 He killed it. And she's like, no, no, no. He's going to bring it back. And he does. And he, and the little boy says, but where's his brother? Yeah. And, The look on Christian Bale's face is so transparent, if you know. Yeah. And he's so kind to her and so kind to the little boy. And, you know, you build these layers of who Alfred really is or who the Albert side of Alfred is. Yeah. And then you get this huge breadcrumb where, like, he's saying it. He's telling you.

45:30 That is exactly the scene. And you still don't get it. That's exactly the scene I wanted to talk about. No way. Yeah, and it's, you know, and I had it for just performance, you know, because first off, it's really easy to talk about a bunch of scenes in this movie that are with Christian Bale or Hugh Jackman or even David Bowie, because we love Bowie, but to find a scene where Michael Caine. Well, and the cinematography, like the scene with the hats and. Yeah, yeah. But this little boy, you're just crushed for him. Yes. And when you watch it. And I hate this trick. I mean, I get it. These canaries are just kind of like mice.

46:11 It's not cool, but... It's gross. But think about this. Adults, we always tend to overthink things, overanalyze things, right? So we are looking left when we're supposed to be looking right, because that's what magic is all about. Misdirection, right? A child. is going to just assume the most simplest thing, right? The bird, I just watched this bird get killed and it makes me sad. And that bird is not the same bird because yeah, children, you know, give them, you gotta give them credit. Like they, they think sometimes they, they live. In Occam's razor. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Yeah.

46:53 And bail. Yeah, you're right. Bail the look on his face and like, Oh, you, You've got a smart son. And she's like, oh, that's my nephew. And he's like, oh, okay. Yeah, great moment, great scene. As for the commitment that each character makes regarding the secrecy of their lives, I want to ask you three questions. Well, I'll ask you. I'm asking the listeners because I'd love to hear what they have to think. So question one, Amber. Knowing what we know about Angier's secret, and I think I know which way you're going to lean on this based on what you had to say about him earlier. But knowing what we know about his secret, is he brave for performing his act or is he a coward?

47:33 Oh, that's a really good question. Because there's one line that makes me think, oh, I don't know how to answer it. Because he tells me at the end. Well, I was stuck on. I was always afraid. His duplicity also is sort of revealed in his conversation with Julia. Yeah. When she says, like, you get the reveal that he's the rich guy. Yeah, yeah. He's using the name, the stage name, and my family can't know. You get a clue to that early on because she's like, you changed your name. You changed your background so that no one knows who you are. So I kind of feel like he's a coward because he never is 100% owning up to who he really is.

48:22 Okay. Next question. Knowing what we know about Borden's secret, is it the more impressive of the two? Because he has to live with it every single day. He's not on stage with his. He's like the performer that they watch, the ancient Chinese guy, Ching Tsun Lung, who wasn't even an Asian man. He's a white guy who's pretending to be an old, broken down. Guy from China right so and you know and Bale. Has it like that's the trick like they watch him leaving he's like that's the trick he lives it he lives and right there when you see the awe that that Borden has for this guy that he would take it to this level of insanity and just he is the illusion he is the trick is it more impressive knowing that him and his brother are living this for the rest of their life they have to right.

49:25 I think especially considering what we know you know at the end about what it does to the people around them I think it's definitely the more selfish. Choice Borden makes the selfish choice. Borden makes the selfish choice because, and Jairus is really only destroying himself. He's gone completely insane. And Borden, the, in order for the duplicity to work, he can't always be Albert when he's with Sarah. That's why Sarah loses her mind because some days he means it when he says he loves her and some days he doesn't. And that's, Not a metaphor. Like, that's real. That's her. She is living with two different people. And he did that to her.

50:15 He made her crazy. Oh, good point. And that's so cruel. And he saw what it was doing to her. And he couldn't let her in on the secret. He couldn't only be with her when he was himself. No. He sacrificed her on the altar of his ambition. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Absolutely right. So would you say, I mean, which character makes the biggest sacrifice here? Freddy. Freddy? I mean, Freddy gets hung for something he didn't even do. Yeah, I think he's the tragic character here. I mean, he was a jerk, but you don't deserve to be hung for that. The one thing that I noticed that I think redeems all three men is that, without question, all three of them really do love Jess.

51:08 That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Like, even in tears, in kind of an ambivalent. Way, but they all have her best interest at heart. Yeah, because he's going to be the mysterious. Benefactor, right? Yeah. She'll want for nothing. She'll want for nothing. She'll grow up living a beautiful life. Yeah. I like, because I'm struggling with, like. Who do you follow in this movie? And who is our quote-unquote hero? Is there a hero? Is there a villain? But I think you kind of turned me into a new direction here where it's like, hey, because of this little girl, they're all good guys.

51:51 They all share that common. They have that one thread of humanity left. Yeah, there's a thread of they're all obsessed to an insane level. They're all committed to. you know, going to, they go past the point of no return, right? They destroy themselves, which is terrible. But on the opposite end of the spectrum, they all can also agree that this little girl, the happiness and the welfare of this little girl is everything. Yes. So I dig that. All right. Well, we're going to take another, we're going to take one last break before we wrap things up. Unless you are listening on Patreon, because there is no ad, Amber.

52:31 And we're going to talk a little bit more just for our Patreon subscribers right now. For the rest of you, we'll be back in like 90 seconds. We're back. All right. Amber, let's wrap this thing up. We've been at it for a while because we've just been over on the Patreon version. Yes. Talking at length. You had some great suggestions. And, you know, we had that contest, that little challenge. Yeah, it's a dab of new time over there. You're going to have to listen to the Patreon version to find out how you can, you know, win something. I'm not going to tell them what they're going to win. No. Patreon people know. Go find out. Go find out.

53:14 All right. Amber, Christopher Nolan, this whole season, we have, our prestige has been that we've been talking about the blockbusters, the big movies. We've been celebrating the anniversaries of, of the 20th and 25th anniversaries. Movies from 2001, 2006. The Prestige from 2006. Just huge when it came out. Everyone loved it. My question, someone says, okay, well, I get it. This is the IMAX guy. This is the guy that made Batman. Does he have. Anything a little underrated maybe I should check out? Because I'm curious.

53:54 What am I missing? And I'll remind you, listeners, last week I said Insomnia. That's my pick. No one thinks about Insomnia when they think Christopher Nolan, partly because he didn't write it. He did direct it, obviously, but he didn't write and direct it. But Insomnia is my pick. Amber, my question, what are you– Christopher Nolan, whether he wrote it, whether he directed it, I don't think he's done any acting in this. So what Christopher Nolan– what underrated Christopher Nolan project would you suggest to our listeners? I feel like Tenet does not get enough love. I really love Tenet. I just think it is a really spectacular time. You know, you've got John David Washington.

54:43 Love John David Washington. Amazing. Robert Pattinson, this I think was the first thing I'd seen him in. Because I haven't seen a lot of his movies. So this was kind of the first thing I saw him in where I was like, he's really talented. This is impressive. Oh, gosh, yeah. And then, of course, Kenneth Branagh. Like, I'm there. I'm in 100%. And what they do with this inverted timeline is really interesting and fun and. A lot of good, interesting action sequences. I really enjoy it.

55:27 I love Tenet. Oh, good. Oh, no. I'll tell you. I have not seen a Christopher Nolan film that I didn't think was absolutely incredible. Same. He's got a perfect record as far as I'm concerned. And I can't say that about all my favorite directors. I can say it about Nolan, though. Here's the thing about Tenet, though. And listeners, if you haven't seen Tenet, I'll give you this warning. If Memento gave you a migraine, Tenet will give you an aneurysm. Yes. There's so much. I just watched a video on Instagram earlier today. You sent that to me. Yeah. Can you share that super fast? Kenneth Branagh.

56:09 Kenneth Branagh has a new movie coming out on Apple TV. And so in promoting this movie, he was doing an interview. Yes. Mayday. Yeah. He was talking about tenants. He was asked about tenants and there is one scene where, you know, they would shoot the scenes forward. Well, they're not going to be Christopher Nolan's not cheap and just run the footage in reverse. They then shot the scene in reverse and it took a lot of blocking and a lot of rehearsal and everything. And then all of a sudden, Kenneth Branagh looked at Christopher Nolan and he said, wait a second. If I'm going backwards, I'm walking backwards, right? And he says, yeah.

56:50 And he goes, so shouldn't I be talking Russian backwards? And he said that it almost broke Christopher Nolan's brain because he almost dug himself into a hole that he couldn't get out of. And he was like, yes. Yes, you should. Yeah. So Kenneth Branagh and his dialect coach got together and figured it out. And he is doing everything, including speaking Russian. Hats off to him. He learns not only how to speak Russian, but how to enunciate, you know, use the dialect. And then he's got to go learn to speak it in reverse. Yes. I can't speak English in reverse. That's on a whole other level of insanity and commitment. We've been kind of talking about that with this movie, but Nolan is on a whole other level.

57:41 Well, and I think that's why he puts so many extras in his Blu-rays is to give the respect to his team that... I mean, he makes them work harder than they've ever worked on anything before. Yes, they do. Amber, I have had a blast these last three weeks. Talking about Christopher Nolan. I know, and for those of you that don't know, we are... actually recording this on Amber Lewis's birthday. So happy birthday, Amber. Thank you. I hope you had a, I hope you had an awesome day. I did. I, I knew it was your birthday when I asked you for this night and I was like, she's going to say no because it's her birthday.

58:22 She probably got, she's got something that she'd rather do. But you know, what if you get to talk to Amber about Christopher Nolan on her birthday? Right. So, I'm glad that we got to talk about one of your favorite directors. I'm glad that we got to talk about a movie that you absolutely love. And it's been a great conversation. I've definitely enjoyed this. So thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. For the gift, Amber. We should be giving you gifts. You gave us a gift today. Next time on A Film By, the conversation around rivalry will continue because we're going to discuss the other 2006 period film about magicians, Talk about the illusionist.

59:04 In my opinion, we'll surprise you. I'm looking forward to seeing, because you were like, oh, we got to talk about the illusionist. And I was like, well, yeah, we'll do it like a week after we talk about the prestige. Why wouldn't we? Absolutely. Listeners, if you've seen it, how would you summarize it in exactly five words? Head to afilmbypodcast.com. Give us your answer. Send us an email. If we use your five-word synopsis on the show, we'll shout you out on the episode. We'll get you some of film by swag. Be one of our super soft, awesome t-shirts. It won't be anything else. Did I just, was I, did I just Rebecca haul this and just, did I just give them something that I should have said? Maybe. Okay. Moving on, moving on. Keep going.

59:45 Please join us on social media. You'll find us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook X. We love interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking your requests for future episodes, debating great movies, uh, if you have no great movie to debate, if you don't have an opinion on, on an episode, get on there right now and just say happy birthday to Amber. Yeah. Thanks friends. Yeah. Thanks. Uh, and yeah, all of you, all of. You listening to the show, following us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon, uh, you know who you are because we just had a pretty cool conversation for you guys. Uh, we thank you. And, uh, Amber, before I say, we'll see you next time. Um, I know we're probably going to hit a movie before this, but I wanted to point this out. The Prestige is getting a 70 millimeter IMAX re-release. It's going to happen on January 21st, 2027. So we got some time to wait.

1:00:47 Be here before we know it. But Amber, I'll tell you right now, I'll buy the tickets if you buy the popcorn. Heck yeah.