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Sept. 13, 2026

Christopher Nolan - The Prestige

Christopher Nolan - The Prestige

Mystery, Magic & Nolan! Jeff and Amber are watching closely as they unveil the tricks behind Christopher Nolan's 2006 mysterious period film about rival magicians who take their obsession and rivalry too far. You've heard the pledge, and seen the...

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Season 7
Mystery, Magic & Nolan!

Jeff and Amber are watching closely as they unveil the tricks behind Christopher Nolan's 2006 mysterious period film about rival magicians who take their obsession and rivalry too far. You've heard the pledge, and seen the turn. Get ready for The Prestige!

This episode is available AD-FREE with an additional 23 minutes on our Patreon right now! Hear our recommendations for Christopher Nolan double features, how we really feel about Mark Ruffalo, and see if you can decipher our challenge to win a very exclusive prize!
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WEBVTT

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Are you listening closely?

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For the past two weeks, we've been focused on a

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very talented Oscar-winning director. And in order to discuss today's film,

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we need to begin that conversation with Christopher Priest. Amber,

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does that name mean anything to you?

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Yes.

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Christopher Priest, for those of you that don't know, is

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a talented author who wrote an award-winning novel in 1995.

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Four years later, a very talented Oscar-winning director discovers the

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novel that Priest has written and decides that he wants

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to adapt it into a feature film. Obviously, Amber, Christopher

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Priest is not about to turn down an offer like that.

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No, I mean, that's the dream, right?

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Except he did!

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Yeah!

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Well, sort of.

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After his latest film, American Beauty, wins five of the

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seven Academy Awards it's nominated for. Director Sam Mendes chooses

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Christopher Priest's novel, The Prestige, as his next picture. And

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days before Christopher Priest prepares to finalize a deal with

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Sam Mendes, a package arrives to his house by motorcycle

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carrier And inside is a VHS copy of the film

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Following and a rival offer from an unknown writer-director named

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Christopher Nolan. Christopher Priest watches Nolan's directorial feature film, Following,

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loves it, and decides to make the deal with Nolan

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in an effort to support a new filmmaker over a

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famous one.

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Which, I love that. That idea of, you know, lifting

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someone up is awesome.

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Yes.

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But also, like, 1995 Sam Mendes, I don't know that

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I would have trusted with this. Like, now Sam Mendes, yes, but.

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Okay, but you're not.

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I mean, with all respect to Christopher Priest, he's not

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John Grisham. He's not Stephen King.

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Right.

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He's a talented author, but he's not world-renowned, you know?

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He doesn't get to say no. So when an Oscar

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winner says, yes, I want your book.

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Well, and what are the odds it would have turned

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out to be Christopher Nolan?

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Yes.

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Like a genius is going to make your book into

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a movie. He didn't know. None of us knew.

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I think he knew. He had a hunch because he

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watched Following. Yes.

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We covered Following. It's brilliant. It's a brilliant film. I

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think it's still on Tubi, by the way.

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All the pieces of Nolan are there.

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We see the genius that will come from a movie

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like Following. Let's talk about a film by Christopher Nolan.

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His 2006 mysterious.

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Sci-fi period thriller, The Prestige. Hello, everybody. I'm Jeff Johnson.

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I'm Amber Lewis.

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And this is a Film By Podcast. And Amber's back.

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You were missed last week. I got to tell you.

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I would say that I missed you guys, but my

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company had sweet tickets to.

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The Reds game that.

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I got to partake of. And let me tell you,

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there's no going back to like.

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No.

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When you said you were sitting in the owner's box,

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I was like, that's it for her. She'll never want

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to see a ball game again.

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So spoiled.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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It was a great time, but I did miss talking

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about Memento, though. But you guys did an awesome job.

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That episode is hilarious.

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Okay, so listeners, if you haven't listened to Memento yet,

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you're in for something special.

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It's something a little different.

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Yeah, our last episode, it may be one of my

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all-time favorites, but man, did it test my editing skills.

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Yeah.

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Amber, I loved what you had to say.

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You sent me a text message with a bunch of

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laughing emoji, and it said, you're a psychopath. I was like,

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what the fuck is wrong with this edit? And then

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I was like, all capitals, oh my God, of.

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Course, exclamation mark. You weren't alone, though. You weren't alone.

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Chris Webber, who, big supporter of the show, we love Chris,

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He wrote, Jeff, I am starting to listen to the

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Memento episode. Did you play this one in reverse?

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If so, genius. Love it. Eric Durth wrote, you guys

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are always coming up with cool shit.

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And then I like this one. Tom spelled T-H-O-M.

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Yeah.

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Tom emailed us writing, I actually cussed at Spotify, assuming

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something was wrong with the app.

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Then it clicked. And I was like, F dash. Oh,

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he's like, okay. He doesn't want to type the word,

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the F word.

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He's, he's doing like the whatever, but he was like

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that himself. He was, yeah, he censored himself in his email. Very,

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very classy Tom with it, with a, with an H.

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I was like, F word.

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They're actually doing this. And then he, You know, S-H-I,

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you know, S-H-T. F word. They're actually doing this shit backwards.

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Three question marks. Blew my mind. Exclamation point.

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I was on board with it until you played our

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theme song backwards, and I was like, nope, don't like that.

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Did you notice how creepy it sounds?

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It was so creepy.

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I did not.

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Something at Twin Peaks.

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I was like, I have to do it just because

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that's memento, right?

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Yes.

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And I was like, holy shit, that's some Tales from

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the Dark side.

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But yeah, I was listening to it on the Patreon.

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Because it's early and ad-free. Yeah, you got it ad-free.

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So I thought there was something wrong with Patreon. I

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was like, this didn't upload right. I got to call them.

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I got to be honest.

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It was a gamble because I'm thinking, okay. I know

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Scott is going to be– it's always a great time

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talking to Scott.

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You know that.

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Yes.

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But I'm like, this is going to be a Christopher

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Nolan episode without Amber. How do I still make it

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like an awesome episode?

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How do you make it spectacular without me?

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Without the voice of reason, what can I do? And

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I knew it was a gamble because I was like–

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like the night before, Scott has no idea. Scott had

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no idea.

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Oh, no.

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I got to be– listen, all the credit to Scott

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Hoffman who– was like, yeah, I'd love to talk about

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this movie.

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So the night before, I'm like, wait a minute, I

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got it. I'm going to memento the memento episode.

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But how do you do this where it makes sense?

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So I told Scott after the fact, and he was like,

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oh my God, I can't believe this happened. I kind

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of was very clever with how I prompted Scott with

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questions and how.

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I I kept coming– and he was doing it for

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me without even realizing.

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Like the theme of whether or not– Maybe we.

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Talked about this or we're going to talk about it.

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Well, the way the main character, is he the victim

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or is he the villain? Scott just started doing the

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work for me and bringing it back. So it was

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a fun time. Listeners, if you haven't listened to it yet,

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your app is not.

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Busted. There's nothing wrong.

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No, just relax and enjoy it.

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Just buckle up and enjoy the ride, because if you

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like Memento, you'll like it.

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Amber, you mentioned Patreon. Gotta talk, gotta shout out, we

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got a new Patreon member.

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Yay!

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Comannon? I hope I'm saying that right.

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Comannon recently joined, so welcome.

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Welcome!

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Yeah. Now, he joined as a free member, which means he.

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Does get access to some exclusive content because we occasionally

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drop Patreon exclusive episodes for free. We've done it more

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than a.

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Bunch of times.

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So listen, if you haven't done so yet, go to www.patreon.com

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slash afilmbypodcast.

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There's a link in the show notes. You can sign

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up today.

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If you want access to all the exclusive episodes, you

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can do so for as little as $ 3 a month.

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There's a few tiers that cost a little bit more,

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a couple bucks more.

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But with those, you get the stickers and the t-shirts

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and the cups.

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The color-changing cups. There's all kinds of cool shit we got, Amber.

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And the ability to request an episode of your choice.

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That's our Patreon requests feature.

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Those are fun.

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Yeah. We get to talk about some cool movies thanks

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to our Patreon family.

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And as you mentioned, Amber, by the way, we now

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offer the new episodes online. They're there early, usually a

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day or two early, and they are always ad-free. So, Tom,

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if you're listening to this episode, don't cuss at Spotify

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for the app not working. You can cuss at them

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for the ads, but look, we can't stop that.

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We can't control that. The show's got to make a

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couple bucks, right? Right.

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Got to keep the lights on.

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Got to keep the lights on. But if you don't

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want the ads, give us three bucks or five or

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ten or more. We're always taking more, Amber.

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I mean, and they get more control.

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Yeah, you get a little bit more say. So why not? Amber,

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I'm going to tell you.

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Three things about christopher nolan that you already know but.

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But i'm always waiting for a tidbit that maybe i.

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I overlooked but yeah well okay so i'll i'll tell

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well you know maybe we'll see i'm all right well

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i'll test you i'll test you oh god speaking of

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testing patreon members if you're listening to this right now

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if you're listening on patreon well then well then you

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got to early.

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You got it ad-free. You're also going to get a

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little bonus content because I've got something... When we take.

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Our Patreon break later, and you'll know, we're going to

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talk about... Amber's got some fun suggestions. She loves to

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break the rules, but this time she was like, I

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want to make some suggestions. I was like, I love

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all these suggestions. I want to hear what she has

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to say. So, for our Patreon members only, you guys

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will get to hear some fun suggestions from Amber regarding

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Christopher Nolan or Christopher Nolan-related... adjacent type films. I also

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have a fun little challenge. And we'll get into that

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when we talk about the Patreon exclusive stuff, Amber, later on.

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But for now, three things you may not know about

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Christopher Nolan. And let's start, let's just start with the test.

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Does Amber know him? Amber, what famous drink does Christopher

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Nolan happen to enjoy while he's on set?

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Oh, merciful heavens. I'm going to say tea.

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Yes. Can you give me the exact?

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Because he's English.

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Yes, but can you give me the exact? I'll give

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you a hint.

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Earl Grey hot. I'm going to show my Star Trek colors.

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Okay.

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Just like Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Christopher Nolan enjoys drinking Earl

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Grey tea while he's on set.

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I was going to give you a Star Trek. I

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don't know if.

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I pulled that out of the ether and I really

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knew it or if I.

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Was just lucky.

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You're a Star Trek fan. Shout out to We've got

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Phaser sets a stun. That's like every Wednesday.

237
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Oh, my boys.

238
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Yeah.

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They're doing Strange New Worlds Season 4 right now. They're

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doing the recap of that. All year long, they've been

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doing the 60th anniversary of the original Star Trek. So

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if you're a first-time listener, if you didn't know we

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had a Star Trek series that happens every Wednesday, now

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you do.

245
00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:35.100
Oh, it's so good.

246
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Phaser set the stun.

247
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.259
Okay, so Amber does know what Christopher Nolan enjoys drinking

248
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.740
while he's on set. You definitely know this one, Amber.

249
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:43.000
I'm not going to try and quiz you here.

250
00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:49.809
But listeners, in 2024, he was knighted by King Charles III,

251
00:12:50.490 --> 00:12:55.149
making him Sir Christopher Nolan, which also, Amber, bestows the

252
00:12:55.190 --> 00:12:59.110
title of Dame to his wife, Emma Thomas, which I

253
00:12:59.149 --> 00:12:59.529
didn't know that.

254
00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:00.509
I didn't know it automatically.

255
00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:00.840
Yes.

256
00:13:02.860 --> 00:13:06.419
You hear like Dame Judi Dench, right? Yes. She has

257
00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:06.759
the honor.

258
00:13:07.059 --> 00:13:10.610
I didn't know if you become a Sir– that your

259
00:13:10.710 --> 00:13:13.149
wife automatically becomes a dame. I wondered if you're like,

260
00:13:13.190 --> 00:13:15.169
if you're, if you're damed, if you have, if, if

261
00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.029
like damehood, I guess you'd call it, does the husband

262
00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:19.669
automatically become a sir?

263
00:13:19.690 --> 00:13:19.990
I wonder.

264
00:13:20.629 --> 00:13:23.360
I don't think it works that way, but I'm not sure.

265
00:13:23.769 --> 00:13:25.720
We've got a lot of retro like that.

266
00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:26.480
Oh, okay.

267
00:13:26.500 --> 00:13:28.720
We got a lot of listeners in the UK. Um,

268
00:13:29.620 --> 00:13:30.539
I'd love to hear from one of them.

269
00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:32.490
Yeah. Let us know. Explain it.

270
00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:35.179
Explain it to us. All right. One more thing here.

271
00:13:36.259 --> 00:13:39.580
Amber, what is Christopher Nolan's all time?

272
00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:40.539
Favorite film.

273
00:13:42.019 --> 00:13:47.750
Oh, I don't know. I feel like it's maybe a Kubrick.

274
00:13:48.649 --> 00:13:51.990
Well, as we learned last week, Kubrick is one of

275
00:13:52.029 --> 00:13:54.950
his influences, but this happens to be a Ridley Scott film.

276
00:13:55.220 --> 00:13:59.360
I'm stuck on. You guys were talking about his favorite

277
00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:00.379
Bond film.

278
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:04.100
Yep. That was on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

279
00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:04.440
Yes.

280
00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:07.379
But his favorite Bond is Timothy Dalton, which I love

281
00:14:07.419 --> 00:14:08.769
because he's my favorite Bond.

282
00:14:09.549 --> 00:14:11.990
I'm like, oh, we had that in common. We're looking

283
00:14:12.009 --> 00:14:13.110
for a Ridley Scott film.

284
00:14:13.129 --> 00:14:14.269
So a Ridley Scott film?

285
00:14:14.350 --> 00:14:15.250
All-time favorite.

286
00:14:15.669 --> 00:14:19.470
All-time favorite. Oh, gosh. I don't know. My all-time favorite

287
00:14:19.509 --> 00:14:21.009
is Aliens. I'm going to say Alien.

288
00:14:22.230 --> 00:14:23.610
We were looking for Blade Runner.

289
00:14:24.889 --> 00:14:27.990
I don't really like Blade Runner.

290
00:14:28.529 --> 00:14:32.809
Oh, wow. It's not a– I need to watch it again, though.

291
00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:33.929
I haven't seen it in decades.

292
00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:37.139
Not for this episode, but maybe another time. We might

293
00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:37.580
have to talk.

294
00:14:38.529 --> 00:14:42.370
Because now I'm wondering which version of Blade Runner that

295
00:14:42.409 --> 00:14:43.110
you have.

296
00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:46.200
Seen or haven't seen. There's like three different cuts.

297
00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:48.559
Oh, goodness. Yeah.

298
00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:49.809
I need to re-watch it.

299
00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:51.039
We need to do an episode.

300
00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.120
Yeah, we could talk. I'll always talk Blade Runner.

301
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:54.580
Right?

302
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:55.600
Yeah. All right.

303
00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.929
Especially if the maestro likes it, then it's definitely worth

304
00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:00.929
another shot.

305
00:15:02.110 --> 00:15:06.200
One thing our maestro doesn't like, Amber Lewis... Not a

306
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.980
fan of this next piece, but we're doing it anyways

307
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:14.080
because the listeners love it, Amber. Amber Lewis, in exactly

308
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.370
five words, tell me what the prestige is all about.

309
00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:23.289
Obsessive magicians destroy each other.

310
00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:24.730
That's good.

311
00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:26.129
That's real good.

312
00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:26.970
I think it's kind of boring.

313
00:15:27.850 --> 00:15:28.570
You think it's kind of boring?

314
00:15:28.649 --> 00:15:30.529
I was trying to get clever with it, and I

315
00:15:30.549 --> 00:15:33.860
just couldn't. I was trying to use... The pledge, the turn,

316
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:36.340
and the prestige, but it's too many words, and.

317
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.139
I couldn't make it work.

318
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:37.960
All right.

319
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:38.700
I got one for you.

320
00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:43.279
I was wanting to be clever, and I got three

321
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:44.720
words into it, and I was like, I can't do

322
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.240
what I want to do. I was trying to use

323
00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:49.620
the letter C for every word.

324
00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:52.850
Oh, that would have been good. I couldn't.

325
00:15:52.929 --> 00:15:55.750
I got halfway there. Five words, Amber.

326
00:15:55.870 --> 00:16:02.590
I got cutthroat competition consumes obsessed magicians.

327
00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.500
So we almost said the same thing.

328
00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.440
Yeah.

329
00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:12.379
I've really been in sync with you on these five-word synopsis.

330
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:17.799
Angela Norris, we had the same exact one on the

331
00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:21.379
Super Ex-Girlfriend episode. So it's weird.

332
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.879
It's really weird. You guys are– you're in my head.

333
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.679
Amber, I know you are always teaching us about the

334
00:16:29.779 --> 00:16:30.820
French language.

335
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:32.620
Oh, boy.

336
00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:35.960
But no French here. Prestige.

337
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:44.299
From the Latin word prestigium means juggler's trick, illusion, deceit,

338
00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:49.710
or delusion. By the 1650s, however, prestige was commonly used

339
00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:53.169
by magicians to define their illusions on stage. I think

340
00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:58.110
there's been a class to that, calling it the prestige.

341
00:16:58.549 --> 00:16:58.960
I like it.

342
00:16:59.470 --> 00:17:04.119
Yes, I love that opening with Michael Caine explaining– how

343
00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:09.779
a magic trick works as he performs the birdcage trick.

344
00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:15.990
Every magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The

345
00:17:16.029 --> 00:17:20.069
first part is called the pledge. The magician shows you

346
00:17:20.109 --> 00:17:24.390
something ordinary, a deck of cards, a bird, or a man.

347
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:31.339
But of course, it probably isn't. The second act is

348
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:44.950
called the turn. The magician takes the ordinary something and

349
00:17:44.970 --> 00:17:49.009
makes it do something extraordinary. Now, you're looking for the secret,

350
00:17:49.650 --> 00:17:53.150
but you won't find it. Because, of course, you're not

351
00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:56.869
really looking. You don't really want to.

352
00:17:58.789 --> 00:17:59.549
Know.

353
00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:05.430
You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet.

354
00:18:06.809 --> 00:18:12.220
Because making something disappear isn't enough. You have to bring

355
00:18:12.259 --> 00:18:19.039
it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act.

356
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:25.230
The hardest part. The part we call the prestige.

357
00:18:27.410 --> 00:18:32.829
Michael Caine could talk to me about my extended car warranty.

358
00:18:34.589 --> 00:18:37.490
Or he could read the phone book and I'd be

359
00:18:38.690 --> 00:18:42.150
blissful because he's Just to listen to him is a treat.

360
00:18:43.269 --> 00:18:46.150
As you said, though, you're talking about your five-word synopsis,

361
00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:48.150
trying to get it all in. An actual magic trick

362
00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:52.230
consists of three elements, the pledge, the turn, and the prestige,

363
00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:56.259
as expertly described by Sir.

364
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:57.500
Michael Caine at the beginning of this movie.

365
00:18:58.420 --> 00:19:01.720
I think what is so impressive about this film, as

366
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.579
well as the screenplay written by Christopher Nolan and Jonathan Nolan...

367
00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.319
Is that the structure of the story plays out like

368
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:10.220
an actual magic trick?

369
00:19:11.059 --> 00:19:12.740
Yes.

370
00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:17.500
It's so good. I mean, I got to ask. Did

371
00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:18.380
you figure it out?

372
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.680
Think back to the first time you watched The Prestige.

373
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:24.039
Did you have it figured out? Did you have it

374
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.589
worked out in your head ahead of time? Or can

375
00:19:26.609 --> 00:19:28.750
you admit that you were completely fooled? Because I was

376
00:19:28.789 --> 00:19:29.430
completely fooled.

377
00:19:30.430 --> 00:19:33.369
No, I got the Borden reveal.

378
00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:34.990
You got that early?

379
00:19:35.009 --> 00:19:35.109
Yeah.

380
00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:37.000
Early, early, early.

381
00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:38.599
Wow.

382
00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:45.849
And then because not to take anything away from Christian

383
00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:49.150
Bale's performance, but his performance is almost too good. in

384
00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:54.589
that if you're paying attention, you can definitely see two

385
00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:55.210
different people.

386
00:19:55.869 --> 00:19:57.470
Okay, but here's the thing about it.

387
00:19:58.450 --> 00:20:03.880
Like a good magic trick, it's all about showing you

388
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.740
what's happening over here so that you're not paying attention

389
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.950
to what's over there. So the first time I'm watching this,

390
00:20:10.569 --> 00:20:16.279
all I'm obsessed with is who is Fallon? Why won't

391
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.619
he speak? He is so mysterious. He's so enigmatic. Who is,

392
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.740
and I'm not, I mean, bail is right there hidden in,

393
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.599
in plain sight. And I'm just not thinking about it.

394
00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:29.660
You know, I'm thinking of, I want to know who

395
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.759
he is and why it's the, I.

396
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.220
Don't know that I got that. He was Fallon. I

397
00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:36.640
definitely knew he was a twin.

398
00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:38.470
Okay. Oh, okay.

399
00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:40.170
So– I definitely got that.

400
00:20:40.190 --> 00:20:40.910
Okay.

401
00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:42.589
And again– I don't know that I knew.

402
00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:43.210
He was Fallon.

403
00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:45.630
Because again– I don't remember, but yeah.

404
00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.480
This trick is all about, yeah, people– you always use

405
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.059
a lookalike or you use a– You use a double.

406
00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:51.680
Twins do it.

407
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:57.519
You use a double. So I was always like– okay,

408
00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.220
so you're thinking, well, yeah, Borden is a twin, but

409
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.339
you're not thinking Fallon's a twin.

410
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.759
So in essence– No, I thought Fallon was just like

411
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:04.380
a guy.

412
00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:05.380
Just Fallon, yeah.

413
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.650
So– But that's the brilliance of this performance is that

414
00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:10.930
the whole time Bale's right there.

415
00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:11.730
Yes.

416
00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:16.309
Do you think there's enough clues along the way? Because

417
00:21:16.329 --> 00:21:18.869
this is one of those movies, it's so fun to

418
00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:19.769
go back and watch it.

419
00:21:19.950 --> 00:21:21.089
Over and over and over.

420
00:21:21.109 --> 00:21:22.430
Oh my gosh, yes.

421
00:21:22.450 --> 00:21:24.529
Are there enough clues along the way for someone to

422
00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:27.990
get the big reveal, do you think? Did Nolan plan

423
00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:30.470
enough breadcrumbs for you to go, oh, why didn't I

424
00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:32.190
listen to that or why didn't I think about that?

425
00:21:32.869 --> 00:21:36.529
Oh my gosh, yes, because– There's a line at the

426
00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:42.170
very beginning when Angiers starts reading Borden's diary.

427
00:21:42.190 --> 00:21:42.279
Yeah.

428
00:21:43.539 --> 00:21:49.839
And he says the diary begins right after we first met. Okay.

429
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:56.720
When we were working with Milton. And you see them

430
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.359
sitting in the audience and the voiceover is Borden saying,

431
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:05.049
we were just two young blokes, like... Trying to make

432
00:22:05.130 --> 00:22:08.359
our way in the world. We never wanted to hurt anybody.

433
00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:12.380
And because you're looking at him and Angiers in the audience,

434
00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:15.960
you think that's who he's talking about. But he's really

435
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.549
talking about himself and his brother.

436
00:22:19.109 --> 00:22:21.109
Yes. Okay.

437
00:22:22.130 --> 00:22:23.990
And that's in like the first five minutes.

438
00:22:24.809 --> 00:22:25.569
Yeah. Well.

439
00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:28.559
And there's a lot of breadcrumbs along the way. Like

440
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:31.289
one of my favorite scenes that will. talk about later

441
00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:34.509
is one of those breadcrumbs that is so subtle, but

442
00:22:34.549 --> 00:22:35.200
I just love it.

443
00:22:35.970 --> 00:22:38.130
Does the, does the breadcrumb involve the little boy?

444
00:22:38.630 --> 00:22:39.109
Yes.

445
00:22:39.710 --> 00:22:42.609
Okay. I won't, I won't, I won't step on it then. We'll,

446
00:22:42.670 --> 00:22:43.349
we'll talk about it later.

447
00:22:44.069 --> 00:22:47.359
Um, but just, okay, well, I'm going to kick that down.

448
00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:50.700
I'm excited to talk about this. No, no, no, no, you've, I'm,

449
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:52.880
I'm happy to talk about it, but it's even stuff like,

450
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:57.890
like Sarah's cryptic statement before she, she kills herself. She

451
00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:02.349
doesn't say, and this is great. She doesn't say.

452
00:23:02.410 --> 00:23:05.539
I know who you are. She says, I know what

453
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:06.160
you are.

454
00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:10.319
I think even more than that when she says, well,

455
00:23:10.339 --> 00:23:12.339
he tells her he loves her and she says, today

456
00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:12.839
you mean it.

457
00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:15.880
Today you mean it. But you don't always. Yeah.

458
00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:20.500
But that I know what you are, that's Rebecca Hall's mistake,

459
00:23:20.900 --> 00:23:21.859
reading the line wrong.

460
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:25.240
Oh no. She tells Christopher Nolan, she says, hey, I'm

461
00:23:25.269 --> 00:23:28.339
so sorry. I I think I just gave away the ending.

462
00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:29.009
Yeah.

463
00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:33.269
And he says, no, the way you deliver that line.

464
00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:37.269
You could take that so many ways. True, yeah. I

465
00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.490
know what you are. She's hurt. She's in pain, right?

466
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:43.779
That's the last thing she's going to say to her

467
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:48.579
husband before she meets a tragic end. So I think

468
00:23:48.619 --> 00:23:52.220
that's fantastic. There's little things. Obviously, you're never going to

469
00:23:52.339 --> 00:23:56.980
pick up. on it like the first time you watch

470
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.759
it but i love like when you go back and

471
00:23:59.779 --> 00:24:03.819
you're thinking wait a minute borden's wife dies by hanging

472
00:24:04.779 --> 00:24:08.549
and jeer's wife dies by drowning and what ultimately happens

473
00:24:08.569 --> 00:24:11.890
to these two guys their fates are intertwined it's really

474
00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:16.789
cool um not one but two big twists at the

475
00:24:16.849 --> 00:24:18.609
end uh which one did you enjoy more.

476
00:24:19.650 --> 00:24:22.619
Well there's like three or four twists at the end,

477
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.880
I feel like. So that's why I'm struggling with answering.

478
00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:31.630
Okay, so the two reveals I'm talking about is Borden,

479
00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:33.750
all along Borden is.

480
00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:36.069
A twin, right? That's a big reveal.

481
00:24:36.329 --> 00:24:40.329
Yes. And with Angier, how has he been doing this trick?

482
00:24:41.269 --> 00:24:43.829
And then you find out the whole cloning.

483
00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:48.599
Yes, that was definitely the bigger reveal to me to

484
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.349
the point that When I rewatched this the other day,

485
00:24:53.509 --> 00:24:58.529
I realized that there's a good, I don't know, five,

486
00:24:58.589 --> 00:25:03.559
ten minutes after the Angier's reveal. Yeah. There's still like

487
00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:08.980
a denouement of the movie and an end to the story.

488
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.000
And that is always blown completely out of my mind

489
00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:15.119
because that reveal is so huge to me.

490
00:25:16.339 --> 00:25:16.539
Yeah.

491
00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:20.740
I mean, there's twist after twist. For me, though, Borden

492
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.960
being twins all along, working together to live as both

493
00:25:24.259 --> 00:25:27.940
Albert and Fallon, it blew my mind once I realized.

494
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:29.309
Because like I said, the first time I watched it,

495
00:25:29.329 --> 00:25:31.849
I'm like, who is this guy? And then you realize,

496
00:25:32.190 --> 00:25:34.410
like I said, he's been there all along, hiding in

497
00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:39.269
plain sight. And it's just under some stagecraft and disguises.

498
00:25:40.009 --> 00:25:41.250
I love that you see, like.

499
00:25:41.190 --> 00:25:43.859
Nolan gives us the shot of them Okay, now you

500
00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:47.509
put in, here's the fake teeth, and here's the padded stomach,

501
00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:49.250
and here's the mutton chops.

502
00:25:50.529 --> 00:25:51.430
It's absolutely brilliant.

503
00:25:52.869 --> 00:25:55.869
We've got lots to talk about, Amber. Let's take a

504
00:25:56.089 --> 00:25:58.490
quick break, and when we get back, we'll talk a

505
00:25:58.670 --> 00:26:00.890
little bit about this cast.

506
00:26:04.650 --> 00:26:05.250
Welcome back.

507
00:26:06.250 --> 00:26:12.029
Amber Lewis and myself discussing Christopher Nolan's The Prestige. His

508
00:26:12.089 --> 00:26:15.910
original choices for the leads of this film were Jude

509
00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:19.789
Law and Guy Pearce. Do you still enjoy this movie

510
00:26:19.829 --> 00:26:23.420
with that casting? Does it work for you?

511
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:27.759
If you consider the time period, and this is like

512
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.440
talented Mr. Ripley era Jude Law.

513
00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:31.619
Ooh, okay.

514
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:32.839
Yes.

515
00:26:33.619 --> 00:26:36.259
I don't know about Guy Pearce. I mean, he's just

516
00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:37.529
worked with him in Memento.

517
00:26:37.829 --> 00:26:38.089
Yes.

518
00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:40.029
We know what he's capable of, right?

519
00:26:40.670 --> 00:26:45.599
Yeah, like Guy Pearce could do anything. But yeah, I

520
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:49.759
don't know about this movie, but I mean, I wouldn't

521
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.819
have cast him in Priscilla Queen of the Desert either,

522
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:54.859
and he's awesome in that.

523
00:26:55.420 --> 00:26:58.190
We talked about that last week, like the casting director.

524
00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:00.289
This guy is in L.A.

525
00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:04.369
Confidential and Priscilla Queen of the Desert.

526
00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:05.779
And it's the same guy?

527
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.420
Yeah, he can literally do anything.

528
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.450
Okay, I couldn't dig up this information, but if you've

529
00:27:13.490 --> 00:27:16.470
got Jude Law and Guy Pearce, who are you casting

530
00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:20.490
as who? Who's playing Borden and who's playing Angier?

531
00:27:22.349 --> 00:27:24.799
I think Jude Law's got to be Borden. Am I wrong,

532
00:27:24.859 --> 00:27:26.980
or what do you think? I don't know.

533
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:33.180
I see Jude Law as being the more stagecraft kind.

534
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:34.009
Of, Okay.

535
00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:34.930
Character, the flashier.

536
00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:36.009
More performer, the showman?

537
00:27:36.210 --> 00:27:37.809
Yes, the showman.

538
00:27:38.029 --> 00:27:39.970
I guess, yeah, that makes sense. Okay.

539
00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:42.400
Plus, he's so damn gorgeous. Like, I don't know that

540
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.839
you could hide him as two people. You'd have to

541
00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:46.779
use a lot of makeup.

542
00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:50.559
Oh, man. Christian Bale listened to this episode like, what's

543
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:53.160
she saying about me? That's not what I meant. No,

544
00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:56.579
I know. Yeah, he played Patrick Bateman. He's a specimen.

545
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:56.900
We know.

546
00:27:58.009 --> 00:28:01.490
So, remember, this impressive cast includes Christian Bale, Sir Michael Caine,

547
00:28:01.950 --> 00:28:06.349
Hugh Jackman, Scarlett Johansson, Andy Serkis, Rebecca Hall, who all

548
00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:07.799
pretty much joined.

549
00:28:07.470 --> 00:28:10.079
The MCU or a version of the DC a few

550
00:28:10.099 --> 00:28:10.819
years down the road.

551
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:15.240
I feel like the real shame here is that we

552
00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:18.859
didn't get a scene with Michael Caine and Andy Serkis together.

553
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.740
Because they both play Alfred in Batman movies.

554
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:24.619
I would have enjoyed that.

555
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:29.200
I loved that I forgot that Andy Serkis was in

556
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:29.759
this movie.

557
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:31.359
Oh, yeah.

558
00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:35.200
Character entrance his character's in the distance and you can't

559
00:28:35.259 --> 00:28:38.220
see him you just hear his voice and the minute

560
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:39.579
i heard his voice i knew it.

561
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.359
Was him like andy such a such a cool.

562
00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:45.680
Guy that they gave him you know uh what has

563
00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:48.740
it got in its pockets is kind of yeah i

564
00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:50.779
thought that was really funny the.

565
00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:54.099
Him giving doing a call back to gollum from lord

566
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.059
of the rings with the with you know the pocket

567
00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:59.240
thing you know pocket trick i was like dude i

568
00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:00.849
Nolan is just super cool.

569
00:29:00.869 --> 00:29:02.220
I have to believe they wrote it on the day.

570
00:29:03.410 --> 00:29:05.529
Or after they cast him or something.

571
00:29:05.730 --> 00:29:08.150
That's like, hey, we got Andy Serkis. Let's have some fun.

572
00:29:08.609 --> 00:29:09.029
I would hope.

573
00:29:09.470 --> 00:29:09.690
Yeah.

574
00:29:10.690 --> 00:29:11.170
Absolutely.

575
00:29:12.789 --> 00:29:17.930
Interesting question here, Amber. Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman. Which character

576
00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:19.910
do you find yourself supporting through this movie?

577
00:29:20.250 --> 00:29:23.069
Oh, Christian Bale. Always.

578
00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:25.809
I hate Hugh Jackman so much in this movie.

579
00:29:25.849 --> 00:29:26.509
You hate him?

580
00:29:27.009 --> 00:29:30.750
I cannot stand him. He is such a jerk. He

581
00:29:30.849 --> 00:29:36.059
is the one that escalates everything. Okay. You know, now,

582
00:29:37.130 --> 00:29:44.819
having said that, the Albert side of Christian Bale's character

583
00:29:45.740 --> 00:29:51.269
is much preferable to the Frederick side. But, yeah, I

584
00:29:51.329 --> 00:29:56.509
still find him a million percent more sympathetic character than

585
00:29:56.690 --> 00:29:59.230
Angier's ever was. Okay.

586
00:29:59.269 --> 00:29:59.750
Well, you....

587
00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.640
Just reading the notes because I wasn't asking it.

588
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:10.170
Like, okay, so you're just not even a hint for Angier.

589
00:30:10.190 --> 00:30:14.230
I do feel bad for him because of his wife.

590
00:30:14.569 --> 00:30:16.029
Well, that's my question.

591
00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:18.809
My question is, is he justified because of the death

592
00:30:18.849 --> 00:30:22.809
of his wife? Because the interesting thing here is the diary, right?

593
00:30:22.829 --> 00:30:25.259
I love the scene with the bullet catch.

594
00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:27.740
Yeah.

595
00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:31.059
Which not get you to die. Yeah, the scene at

596
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:36.400
the funeral and then the scene with the bullet catch.

597
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:40.880
I think they are both, both men are doing such

598
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:45.150
amazing acting in those scenes because you have this just

599
00:30:45.970 --> 00:30:51.150
limitless grief on Angier's face. And you can see you're

600
00:30:51.170 --> 00:30:55.619
dealing with the Albert side of Christian Bale, who honestly

601
00:30:55.670 --> 00:30:59.420
doesn't know and honestly feels terrible about it.

602
00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:03.069
Okay, so here's the interesting thing. First off, have you

603
00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:06.269
read the novel by Christopher Priest?

604
00:31:06.769 --> 00:31:07.430
I have not.

605
00:31:08.069 --> 00:31:10.430
We have to get the... We're going to get their

606
00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:11.569
hands on this, Amber. I'm going to send you a

607
00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:16.430
copy of this. So what's fascinating here, the big change

608
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:21.799
from novel to film is that it's a generational story

609
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:27.940
in the book. Like their kids through the years are like...

610
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:31.250
It's like a feud that just goes... Multi-generation.

611
00:31:31.329 --> 00:31:31.650
Yes.

612
00:31:32.329 --> 00:31:34.009
Oh, that sounds fascinating.

613
00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:34.809
Definitely cool.

614
00:31:36.309 --> 00:31:40.210
The other thing, though, is that the novel itself is presented,

615
00:31:40.410 --> 00:31:43.970
it's almost like Bram Stoker's Dracula, where it's a collection

616
00:31:44.009 --> 00:31:45.509
of journal entries and diaries.

617
00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:47.450
I love books like that.

618
00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:48.779
Yeah, so you're.

619
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:54.140
Getting, because the movie, they each have each other's diaries, right?

620
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:54.980
Their journals. Yes.

621
00:31:55.220 --> 00:31:57.920
It's like they're trying to, to get inside each other's heads.

622
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.819
Well, and I love like the whole idea that Borden's

623
00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:03.619
is ciphered and you have to, it's not just a

624
00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:08.710
simple like transition cipher either. It's like, you can't read.

625
00:32:08.630 --> 00:32:10.789
This in a calendar. Years.

626
00:32:10.910 --> 00:32:12.349
Yeah. It's so complicated.

627
00:32:12.829 --> 00:32:16.809
Yeah. But that's the book is their diaries.

628
00:32:17.390 --> 00:32:17.470
Yeah.

629
00:32:17.490 --> 00:32:20.190
And you're going back and forth in between their diaries basically.

630
00:32:20.869 --> 00:32:22.930
And I love the fact, like the question that I

631
00:32:22.970 --> 00:32:26.619
don't think can be answered is, is, The rage that

632
00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:30.480
Angier has because, you know, what knot did you tie?

633
00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:32.369
I don't know. How could you not know?

634
00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:37.089
And then he finally, he's like, oh, I've cracked the cipher.

635
00:32:37.130 --> 00:32:38.349
I'm reading. I'm in his head.

636
00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:43.009
And now he gets to the knot part. And Borden writes,

637
00:32:43.769 --> 00:32:45.789
to this day, I honestly just don't know.

638
00:32:46.509 --> 00:32:48.890
And he's reading, but he's by himself sitting there. He's like,

639
00:32:48.910 --> 00:32:49.789
how could he not know?

640
00:32:49.809 --> 00:32:53.740
And that's the point where you're like, this guy– Has

641
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:55.920
now gone off the deep end. He's never going to

642
00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:58.799
get his answer and that's going to drive his madness.

643
00:32:58.839 --> 00:32:59.079
Right.

644
00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:01.180
But you're saying like, you know, you're for.

645
00:33:01.099 --> 00:33:07.109
Me, that's more significant is when he's arguing with Scarlett Johansson.

646
00:33:07.250 --> 00:33:09.930
And he says, I don't care about my wife. I

647
00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:11.589
care about the trick.

648
00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:11.970
Yeah.

649
00:33:12.309 --> 00:33:12.470
Yeah.

650
00:33:12.490 --> 00:33:12.670
He's.

651
00:33:13.309 --> 00:33:15.390
And he says it, he doesn't even mean to say it.

652
00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:18.250
It just comes out. And he realizes after the fact, like,

653
00:33:18.470 --> 00:33:20.390
Oh yeah. What did I just say?

654
00:33:20.549 --> 00:33:24.430
Yeah. Um, But you're more of a Borden fan. And

655
00:33:25.349 --> 00:33:28.730
is he more relatable because he's a family man? Sarah's

656
00:33:28.849 --> 00:33:30.750
a good woman. They got the kid.

657
00:33:31.650 --> 00:33:36.789
Yeah, and I think that he's also more relatable because

658
00:33:37.690 --> 00:33:41.769
he does try to mess with Angier's act. Like, there

659
00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:44.869
is that you messed up my act, so I'm going

660
00:33:44.890 --> 00:33:47.410
to mess up yours kind of element to it. But

661
00:33:47.549 --> 00:33:54.039
he's more about the profession and the tricks and the

662
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.900
magic and, and jeers is just, he hates him and

663
00:33:57.960 --> 00:34:00.960
just wants to destroy him. I mean, he takes it

664
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:05.960
entirely too far. If where we started was, you know,

665
00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:09.800
I want your trick and I want your, you know,

666
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.570
your mysteries and stuff like Borden was willing to let

667
00:34:13.610 --> 00:34:15.809
it go way, way beyond.

668
00:34:16.590 --> 00:34:19.230
I'll say this. Cause it's such an amazing cast.

669
00:34:19.269 --> 00:34:21.300
And I know we're, you know, for the sake of time,

670
00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:25.800
we can't just, we can't dwell on everybody, but it was, uh,

671
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.280
you know, not over the summer. We, we went to,

672
00:34:30.260 --> 00:34:33.170
you know, Martha's Vineyard and we're in, we're in Boston.

673
00:34:33.190 --> 00:34:36.929
We're all over the place and we're, we're finding ourselves inexplicably.

674
00:34:37.630 --> 00:34:42.469
We're finding ourselves on movie location sets by chance. And

675
00:34:42.510 --> 00:34:44.030
then we got to Charlestown. I was like, I can't

676
00:34:44.070 --> 00:34:47.829
wait to go home and watch the town. Love the town.

677
00:34:48.429 --> 00:34:51.849
And I love Rebecca Hall. And, I forgot that she's

678
00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:57.530
in this. She's such a talented actress. Beautiful, beautiful woman.

679
00:34:57.550 --> 00:34:59.639
I was like, we need more Rebecca Hall. And then

680
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:02.440
I'm putting on prestige for this pod, and I'm like.

681
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:03.760
Oh, Rebecca Hall.

682
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:04.820
And here she is.

683
00:35:05.019 --> 00:35:06.699
All right, yeah. Love Rebecca Hall.

684
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:10.539
I mean, ScarJo, what hasn't been said about her? But

685
00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:13.840
I'm going to ask you a question. Let's call this

686
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:17.019
the spotlight. Maybe change things up, you know? Okay.

687
00:35:17.619 --> 00:35:19.780
I'm going to call it the spotlight. Which actor.

688
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.679
or actress do you think stole it? Like, let's talk, like,

689
00:35:23.019 --> 00:35:24.650
I want to know from, because I got someone I

690
00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:27.269
want to mention. You may have the same person in mind,

691
00:35:27.329 --> 00:35:30.150
but I want to give you the first crack at it. Like,

692
00:35:31.429 --> 00:35:34.010
one person in this movie that you just, we're moving on,

693
00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:35.869
but we're not moving on without talking about this person.

694
00:35:36.449 --> 00:35:36.829
Who would it be?

695
00:35:37.349 --> 00:35:42.780
Well, there are so many, like, character actors that he

696
00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:45.320
throws in that I'm like, oh, it's that guy. Yeah.

697
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:46.360
Yeah.

698
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:47.280
But.

699
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:49.059
You're Ricky J's and people like that.

700
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:49.420
Yeah, I get you.

701
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.510
Yeah, but my God, when David Bowie shows up as

702
00:35:53.619 --> 00:35:57.610
Nikola Tesla, like, my whole heart just glows.

703
00:35:57.730 --> 00:36:02.190
Like, it makes me so happy. David Bowie as Nikola Tesla.

704
00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:06.909
That is the correct answer, Amber. I have that written down. Amber,

705
00:36:06.949 --> 00:36:12.130
he declines this role. This is no thanks. So... Well,

706
00:36:12.150 --> 00:36:12.909
he's so... Nolan.

707
00:36:13.110 --> 00:36:14.869
Or he was so humble and.

708
00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:15.329
Well.

709
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.380
Nolan, who is creating a movie about obsession and taking

710
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.860
things to the limit, Nolan does what any director in

711
00:36:23.900 --> 00:36:27.690
his case would do. Charters a plane and flies to

712
00:36:27.730 --> 00:36:31.530
David Bowie's house. He explains to Bowie, like, you are

713
00:36:31.570 --> 00:36:35.030
the only person I could imagine performing this role.

714
00:36:35.070 --> 00:36:36.869
Well, to be fair, Christopher Nolan does not own a

715
00:36:36.929 --> 00:36:38.969
cell phone. He does not have an email.

716
00:36:39.469 --> 00:36:39.989
Exactly.

717
00:36:40.349 --> 00:36:42.050
He likes to be face-to-face with people.

718
00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:44.179
He's enigmatic, right? He tells Bowie.

719
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:50.900
hey, you have this larger-than-life persona, and without that, no

720
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.269
one will believe Tesla can do what he does. And

721
00:36:54.289 --> 00:36:57.289
I guess flattery gets you everywhere with David Bowie because

722
00:36:57.429 --> 00:36:59.969
he says, all right, I'm doing it. He changes his

723
00:37:00.010 --> 00:37:05.010
mind and he takes the role. It's such a small moment.

724
00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:07.230
He's not on screen that long.

725
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:07.659
No.

726
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:11.980
He is so captivating. You can't not be all in

727
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:12.440
on Bowie.

728
00:37:13.429 --> 00:37:15.630
As Tesla. I love what he's doing.

729
00:37:15.710 --> 00:37:19.110
And I'll tell you what, I was so bought in

730
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:24.019
that Tesla had some batshit crazy inventions. And I googled,

731
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:27.099
I was like, did he try to make a transporter?

732
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:30.719
Maybe not a cloner, but did he try to make

733
00:37:30.739 --> 00:37:33.619
a transportation device? Because I can believe that he did.

734
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:38.670
Well, that's just it. Yeah, but that's the brilliance of Nolan.

735
00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:43.280
Okay, so wait, he did all these crazy things that Okay,

736
00:37:43.300 --> 00:37:45.760
so maybe he did try to do transportation.

737
00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:48.210
Maybe he was trying to clone people. I don't know.

738
00:37:48.530 --> 00:37:50.590
I believe it. You just don't know.

739
00:37:50.869 --> 00:37:53.110
You just don't know? What was he doing on that mountain?

740
00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:53.650
Who knows?

741
00:37:53.769 --> 00:37:54.409
David Bowie.

742
00:37:56.150 --> 00:38:01.400
I don't know why Christopher Nolan writes the character of

743
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.500
Tesla and says, only David Bowie can play this.

744
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.519
David Bowie, who's... Well, he's a huge David Bowie fan.

745
00:38:07.780 --> 00:38:08.599
Well, okay.

746
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:14.429
The end of Memento. Yeah. During the end credits, we

747
00:38:14.449 --> 00:38:15.760
get a Bowie song.

748
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.780
Yeah, but if I wrote a script, just because I

749
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:24.079
think James Hetfield from Metallica is awesome, I'm not going

750
00:38:24.099 --> 00:38:26.260
to think only James Hetfield could play this role.

751
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:29.099
But if it was a role that only he could do.

752
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:30.960
Oh, you're right. Okay, you got me there.

753
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:33.960
I mean, it's not like we haven't had Bowie in

754
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:34.719
a movie before.

755
00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:34.880
Yeah.

756
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.320
Made one of the greatest movies.

757
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:37.679
1986.

758
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:41.309
Ever. I know it's one of your favorites.

759
00:38:41.590 --> 00:38:44.250
Yeah. For a very different reason.

760
00:38:44.309 --> 00:38:47.090
But you were just in love with Jennifer Connelly.

761
00:38:49.469 --> 00:38:50.250
I was 10 years old.

762
00:38:50.309 --> 00:38:50.929
Who wasn't?

763
00:38:51.170 --> 00:38:52.869
She was like 15. How could I not be in

764
00:38:52.909 --> 00:38:55.989
love with her? I'm still in love with her. I'm

765
00:38:56.230 --> 00:38:58.570
not moving on her. I mean, you know, I have

766
00:38:58.610 --> 00:39:00.250
respect for her husband. She's got a great husband.

767
00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:02.219
I was going to say, Vision will come after you.

768
00:39:02.570 --> 00:39:02.780
Yeah.

769
00:39:03.219 --> 00:39:03.780
Don't want that.

770
00:39:05.539 --> 00:39:08.940
Oh amber i i found this little nugget look it's

771
00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:11.300
christopher nolan movie we could be here for another couple

772
00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.079
of hours talking about the making of and the behind

773
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:17.139
the scenes and by the way i said this on

774
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:18.699
uh i want to say i said this on our

775
00:39:19.469 --> 00:39:23.690
our clerks 2 episode just by the blu-ray of the

776
00:39:23.710 --> 00:39:27.449
dvd because like kevin kevin smith movie no one always

777
00:39:27.610 --> 00:39:30.340
packs his full of fun stuff.

778
00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:33.159
And the Prestige, I own a copy of it. It's

779
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:33.719
no different.

780
00:39:33.739 --> 00:39:36.940
There's all kinds of behind-the-scenes stuff and documentary stuff and

781
00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:40.059
fun stuff. So check that out. But this one, I

782
00:39:40.219 --> 00:39:47.230
gotta talk about, Amber. This movie technically contains the very first...

783
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.519
IMAX 70 millimeter film ever used in a feature length film.

784
00:39:53.539 --> 00:39:56.239
I read that and I was like, Oh my gosh.

785
00:39:57.059 --> 00:40:02.460
And it's, it's just, it's no one filming like Bill's, uh, duplication,

786
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:03.940
you know, when like they're both on the, on the

787
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:06.460
camera or on the scene in the same scene. And

788
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.659
he's doing it as a tech, like the dudes, he

789
00:40:09.699 --> 00:40:11.179
knows what he's up to. He's like, I'm going to

790
00:40:11.619 --> 00:40:14.579
figure out, I'm going to do some scouting, but do some.

791
00:40:14.489 --> 00:40:17.690
Scouting, uh, Warner Brothers will pay for my research now.

792
00:40:18.769 --> 00:40:21.889
It's all a test to see whether IMAX footage can

793
00:40:21.909 --> 00:40:24.349
be used during VFX shots and whether or not he

794
00:40:24.389 --> 00:40:29.949
can reduce it to 35mm convincingly for like a widescreen release.

795
00:40:30.309 --> 00:40:33.199
Because he's doing all this for The Dark Knight, which

796
00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:35.320
is going to come out in 2008.

797
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.179
And do you remember all the big hoopla where everyone's like,

798
00:40:38.300 --> 00:40:41.579
there's an IMAX shot in The Dark Knight. That's just

799
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:43.300
going to blow your mind. You got to see it

800
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.610
in IMAX because there's a shot. It's like Okay, so

801
00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:48.630
there's 12 minutes of the whole movie is in IMAX.

802
00:40:48.969 --> 00:40:50.989
So now we have to go to see it in IMAX, right?

803
00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:54.110
And this sets off the whole IMAX craze.

804
00:40:54.130 --> 00:40:54.710
I mean, worth it.

805
00:40:55.769 --> 00:40:56.699
Absolutely worth it.

806
00:40:57.510 --> 00:40:59.710
I don't even know if IMAX is what it is

807
00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:01.050
without Christopher Nolan.

808
00:41:01.590 --> 00:41:02.400
That's where I'm at with it.

809
00:41:03.210 --> 00:41:05.429
I mean, he really seems to be the one that's

810
00:41:06.150 --> 00:41:08.679
decided this is the medium I'm going to work in.

811
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:10.739
And you all need to catch up.

812
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:17.889
Tom Cruise saved the movie theater experience with Maverick. Christopher

813
00:41:17.909 --> 00:41:23.389
Nolan created the movie-going experience with IMAX because, I mean,

814
00:41:23.429 --> 00:41:24.210
you saw The Odyssey.

815
00:41:24.269 --> 00:41:25.429
I don't have to tell you.

816
00:41:26.949 --> 00:41:31.360
How do you watch a movie unless it's a rom-com

817
00:41:31.389 --> 00:41:34.679
or something like that? I don't need that on IMAX screen,

818
00:41:34.699 --> 00:41:39.539
but it's amazing. Fun little fact here for you. We're

819
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:44.179
talking about The Borden Twins. The novel confirms... That the

820
00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:45.260
Borden twins are named.

821
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:51.829
Albert and Frederick. And that's why they choose this amalgamation

822
00:41:51.869 --> 00:41:56.110
of their names as Alfred. He takes the name Alfred.

823
00:41:56.179 --> 00:41:57.380
They take the name Alfred.

824
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.539
And that's why Scarlett Johansson's Olivia calls him Freddy, which

825
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.880
clearly Sarah, Rebecca Hall's character, does not care for if

826
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.079
you watch those scenes closely.

827
00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:07.719
Oh, yeah.

828
00:42:08.550 --> 00:42:09.070
Kind of winces.

829
00:42:10.219 --> 00:42:13.159
But that's– it's letting on the secret of which– I

830
00:42:13.179 --> 00:42:14.960
think it's letting on the secret of which twin loved

831
00:42:14.980 --> 00:42:15.440
which woman.

832
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:16.760
Yes.

833
00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:19.059
Olivia is all about Freddie, right?

834
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:24.000
So Fallon or Frederick, that's who's spending all the time

835
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:25.889
with her, which is kind of cool.

836
00:42:26.949 --> 00:42:29.449
Again, it's the breadcrumbs. It's like I didn't pick up

837
00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:29.730
on that.

838
00:42:30.469 --> 00:42:35.170
Well, and another thing is the name of Fallon, Bernard Fallon,

839
00:42:35.510 --> 00:42:38.150
is an anagram of Alfred Borden.

840
00:42:39.050 --> 00:42:39.210
Holy.

841
00:42:39.590 --> 00:42:41.739
How, why am I not even thinking? Okay.

842
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:46.500
So see, even after multiple viewings, I'm discussing it on

843
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:48.340
a pod with you and I'm still figuring out stuff.

844
00:42:48.699 --> 00:42:51.980
Yeah. Every time you watch it, there's another clue.

845
00:42:52.739 --> 00:42:54.019
Well, and then think about this.

846
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:59.809
You've got Alfred Borden and what is it?

847
00:42:59.849 --> 00:43:01.309
Robert Angier?

848
00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:02.510
Abra.

849
00:43:03.469 --> 00:43:10.139
Abra. abracadabra abracadabra that is not an accident bale says

850
00:43:10.179 --> 00:43:13.199
that in the movie like yeah it's a horrible scene

851
00:43:13.219 --> 00:43:14.960
but i love it when he says yeah.

852
00:43:15.380 --> 00:43:18.820
Yeah amber we're gonna take another uh quick break when

853
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:20.659
we get back i know there's a scene that you

854
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:22.699
want to discuss uh you kind of alluded to it

855
00:43:22.780 --> 00:43:23.800
at the top of the hour we're going to get

856
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:30.739
to it right after these messages all right so the

857
00:43:30.820 --> 00:43:34.510
scene that you would like to discuss amber Let's talk–

858
00:43:34.539 --> 00:43:36.219
I mean, and we can talk about a few scenes

859
00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:38.099
if you want, but I want to– let's talk.

860
00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:39.750
About the scene.

861
00:43:39.969 --> 00:43:44.030
Is it the pivotal moment? Is it because of an

862
00:43:44.090 --> 00:43:46.130
amazing performance?

863
00:43:46.190 --> 00:43:48.130
Is it the cinematography? Is it Nolan's direction?

864
00:43:49.190 --> 00:43:50.590
I know that there's not a scene in here that

865
00:43:50.610 --> 00:43:52.949
pissed you off, so we'll skip that one.

866
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.980
I used that last week. I was like, yeah, I'm

867
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:57.440
going to say this pissed Amber Lewis off. I bet.

868
00:43:57.699 --> 00:43:58.940
And you were right.

869
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:00.639
I was right, yeah. I messaged you.

870
00:44:00.739 --> 00:44:02.699
I was like, you know me too well. I hate

871
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.119
that scene.

872
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.119
Well, why did you choose a scene that you want

873
00:44:06.139 --> 00:44:06.559
to talk about?

874
00:44:06.579 --> 00:44:13.090
I guess it would be Christopher and Jonathan Nolan's writing.

875
00:44:13.110 --> 00:44:16.389
Oh, okay. Do tell. Tell me about it.

876
00:44:16.429 --> 00:44:23.420
Yeah. It's my favorite little breadcrumb. And it's towards the beginning.

877
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:29.750
It's when Alfred has met Olivia. Yes.

878
00:44:30.460 --> 00:44:30.760
Yes.

879
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.239
And, or no, sorry, Sarah, Alfred, Alfred and Sarah. Yeah.

880
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:41.619
And, um, she brings her nephew to his little magic

881
00:44:41.659 --> 00:44:44.360
show that he's doing and he does the birdcage act

882
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:48.719
and the nephew starts to cry and he says he

883
00:44:48.739 --> 00:44:49.280
killed it.

884
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:50.449
He killed it.

885
00:44:50.909 --> 00:44:52.670
And she's like, no, no, no. He's going to bring

886
00:44:52.710 --> 00:44:55.789
it back. And he does. And he, and the little

887
00:44:55.829 --> 00:44:57.969
boy says, but where's his brother?

888
00:44:58.730 --> 00:44:59.110
Yeah.

889
00:45:00.269 --> 00:45:05.820
And, The look on Christian Bale's face is so transparent,

890
00:45:06.099 --> 00:45:06.780
if you know.

891
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:06.880
Yeah.

892
00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:12.460
And he's so kind to her and so kind to

893
00:45:12.500 --> 00:45:16.659
the little boy. And, you know, you build these layers

894
00:45:16.940 --> 00:45:20.929
of who Alfred really is or who the Albert side

895
00:45:20.969 --> 00:45:21.650
of Alfred is.

896
00:45:21.670 --> 00:45:22.929
Yeah.

897
00:45:23.190 --> 00:45:26.969
And then you get this huge breadcrumb where, like, he's

898
00:45:27.170 --> 00:45:29.170
saying it. He's telling you.

899
00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:32.550
That is exactly the scene. And you still don't get it.

900
00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:35.820
That's exactly the scene I wanted to talk about. No way.

901
00:45:36.230 --> 00:45:38.670
Yeah, and it's, you know, and I had it for

902
00:45:39.010 --> 00:45:43.429
just performance, you know, because first off, it's really easy

903
00:45:43.869 --> 00:45:45.969
to talk about a bunch of scenes in this movie

904
00:45:46.110 --> 00:45:51.030
that are with Christian Bale or Hugh Jackman or even

905
00:45:51.349 --> 00:45:54.250
David Bowie, because we love Bowie, but to find a

906
00:45:54.329 --> 00:45:55.730
scene where Michael Caine.

907
00:45:55.750 --> 00:45:58.639
Well, and the cinematography, like the scene with the hats and.

908
00:45:59.139 --> 00:46:03.679
Yeah, yeah. But this little boy, you're just crushed for him.

909
00:46:04.219 --> 00:46:04.400
Yes.

910
00:46:04.420 --> 00:46:05.829
And when you watch it.

911
00:46:06.099 --> 00:46:08.570
And I hate this trick. I mean, I get it.

912
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.269
These canaries are just kind of like mice.

913
00:46:11.469 --> 00:46:15.590
It's not cool, but... It's gross. But think about this.

914
00:46:16.530 --> 00:46:19.489
Adults, we always tend to overthink things, overanalyze things, right?

915
00:46:19.610 --> 00:46:24.079
So we are looking left when we're supposed to be

916
00:46:24.099 --> 00:46:26.159
looking right, because that's what magic is all about.

917
00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:28.599
Misdirection, right? A child.

918
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:33.500
is going to just assume the most simplest thing, right?

919
00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:37.760
The bird, I just watched this bird get killed and

920
00:46:37.820 --> 00:46:40.909
it makes me sad. And that bird is not the

921
00:46:40.929 --> 00:46:45.510
same bird because yeah, children, you know, give them, you

922
00:46:45.530 --> 00:46:48.030
gotta give them credit. Like they, they think sometimes they,

923
00:46:48.150 --> 00:46:48.690
they live.

924
00:46:48.610 --> 00:46:49.710
In Occam's razor.

925
00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:53.219
The simplest answer is usually the correct one. Yeah.

926
00:46:53.780 --> 00:46:54.780
And bail. Yeah, you're right.

927
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:56.460
Bail the look on his face and like, Oh, you,

928
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.539
You've got a smart son. And she's like, oh, that's

929
00:46:58.579 --> 00:47:00.000
my nephew. And he's like, oh, okay.

930
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:03.119
Yeah, great moment, great scene.

931
00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:07.869
As for the commitment that each character makes regarding the

932
00:47:07.909 --> 00:47:11.110
secrecy of their lives, I want to ask you three questions.

933
00:47:12.170 --> 00:47:13.210
Well, I'll ask you.

934
00:47:13.230 --> 00:47:15.170
I'm asking the listeners because I'd love to hear what

935
00:47:15.190 --> 00:47:18.989
they have to think. So question one, Amber. Knowing what

936
00:47:19.030 --> 00:47:22.420
we know about Angier's secret, and I think I know

937
00:47:22.460 --> 00:47:23.760
which way you're going to lean on this based on

938
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.769
what you had to say about him earlier. But knowing

939
00:47:26.809 --> 00:47:30.530
what we know about his secret, is he brave for

940
00:47:30.570 --> 00:47:32.840
performing his act or is he a coward?

941
00:47:33.940 --> 00:47:36.059
Oh, that's a really good question.

942
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:41.119
Because there's one line that makes me think, oh, I

943
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:42.349
don't know how to answer it.

944
00:47:43.130 --> 00:47:44.550
Because he tells me at the end. Well, I was

945
00:47:44.570 --> 00:47:46.989
stuck on. I was always afraid.

946
00:47:47.409 --> 00:47:53.409
His duplicity also is sort of revealed in his conversation

947
00:47:53.469 --> 00:47:54.280
with Julia.

948
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:54.380
Yeah.

949
00:47:55.090 --> 00:47:58.610
When she says, like, you get the reveal that he's

950
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:00.480
the rich guy.

951
00:48:00.500 --> 00:48:05.099
Yeah, yeah. He's using the name, the stage name, and

952
00:48:05.739 --> 00:48:06.380
my family can't know.

953
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:09.579
You get a clue to that early on because she's like,

954
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:13.630
you changed your name. You changed your background so that

955
00:48:13.670 --> 00:48:16.030
no one knows who you are. So I kind of

956
00:48:16.050 --> 00:48:20.789
feel like he's a coward because he never is 100%

957
00:48:20.789 --> 00:48:22.289
owning up to who he really is.

958
00:48:22.730 --> 00:48:24.409
Okay. Next question.

959
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:30.519
Knowing what we know about Borden's secret, is it the

960
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.960
more impressive of the two? Because he has to live

961
00:48:33.980 --> 00:48:37.289
with it every single day. He's not on stage with his.

962
00:48:37.489 --> 00:48:44.070
He's like the performer that they watch, the ancient Chinese guy,

963
00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:49.150
Ching Tsun Lung, who wasn't even an Asian man.

964
00:48:49.449 --> 00:48:52.070
He's a white guy who's pretending to be an old,

965
00:48:52.090 --> 00:48:53.110
broken down.

966
00:48:55.539 --> 00:48:59.400
Guy from China right so and you know and Bale.

967
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:01.300
Has it like that's the trick like they watch him

968
00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:04.150
leaving he's like that's the trick he lives it he

969
00:49:04.230 --> 00:49:07.570
lives and right there when you see the awe that

970
00:49:07.789 --> 00:49:10.449
that Borden has for this guy that he would take

971
00:49:10.530 --> 00:49:14.289
it to this level of insanity and just he is

972
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.519
the illusion he is the trick is it more impressive

973
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:22.679
knowing that him and his brother are living this for

974
00:49:22.699 --> 00:49:24.739
the rest of their life they have to right.

975
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:31.559
I think especially considering what we know you know at

976
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.739
the end about what it does to the people around

977
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.239
them I think it's definitely the more selfish.

978
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.300
Choice Borden makes the selfish choice.

979
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:43.460
Borden makes the selfish choice because, and Jairus is really

980
00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:50.179
only destroying himself. He's gone completely insane. And Borden, the,

981
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:55.550
in order for the duplicity to work, he can't always

982
00:49:55.650 --> 00:50:01.449
be Albert when he's with Sarah. That's why Sarah loses

983
00:50:01.489 --> 00:50:05.190
her mind because some days he means it when he

984
00:50:05.230 --> 00:50:07.829
says he loves her and some days he doesn't. And that's,

985
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:12.000
Not a metaphor. Like, that's real. That's her. She is

986
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:15.139
living with two different people. And he did that to her.

987
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:16.480
He made her crazy.

988
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.179
Oh, good point.

989
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:20.840
And that's so cruel. And he saw what it was

990
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.500
doing to her. And he couldn't let her in on

991
00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:27.400
the secret. He couldn't only be with her when he

992
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:29.110
was himself.

993
00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:29.179
No.

994
00:50:29.550 --> 00:50:35.329
He sacrificed her on the altar of his ambition.

995
00:50:35.349 --> 00:50:39.190
Yeah, you're right. You're right. Absolutely right.

996
00:50:40.070 --> 00:50:42.260
So would you say, I mean, which character makes the

997
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:43.179
biggest sacrifice here?

998
00:50:44.619 --> 00:50:44.900
Freddy.

999
00:50:45.820 --> 00:50:46.139
Freddy?

1000
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.940
I mean, Freddy gets hung for something he didn't even do.

1001
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:51.079
Yeah, I think he's the tragic character here.

1002
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:54.119
I mean, he was a jerk, but you don't deserve

1003
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.519
to be hung for that. The one thing that I

1004
00:50:56.579 --> 00:51:02.849
noticed that I think redeems all three men is that,

1005
00:51:03.769 --> 00:51:07.530
without question, all three of them really do love Jess.

1006
00:51:08.309 --> 00:51:12.210
That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Like, even in tears, in

1007
00:51:12.849 --> 00:51:14.469
kind of an ambivalent.

1008
00:51:13.909 --> 00:51:18.630
Way, but they all have her best interest at heart. Yeah,

1009
00:51:18.650 --> 00:51:20.570
because he's going to be the mysterious.

1010
00:51:20.349 --> 00:51:24.650
Benefactor, right? Yeah. She'll want for nothing. She'll want for nothing.

1011
00:51:24.809 --> 00:51:26.829
She'll grow up living a beautiful life.

1012
00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:28.750
Yeah.

1013
00:51:28.949 --> 00:51:31.059
I like, because I'm struggling with, like.

1014
00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:33.980
Who do you follow in this movie?

1015
00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:39.480
And who is our quote-unquote hero? Is there a hero?

1016
00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:40.179
Is there a villain?

1017
00:51:41.090 --> 00:51:43.989
But I think you kind of turned me into a

1018
00:51:44.309 --> 00:51:48.030
new direction here where it's like, hey, because of this

1019
00:51:48.070 --> 00:51:51.010
little girl, they're all good guys.

1020
00:51:51.170 --> 00:51:52.769
They all share that common.

1021
00:51:53.650 --> 00:51:56.969
They have that one thread of humanity left.

1022
00:51:57.349 --> 00:52:01.230
Yeah, there's a thread of they're all obsessed to an

1023
00:52:01.289 --> 00:52:02.090
insane level.

1024
00:52:02.829 --> 00:52:03.690
They're all committed to.

1025
00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:07.070
you know, going to, they go past the point of

1026
00:52:07.090 --> 00:52:10.650
no return, right? They destroy themselves, which is terrible. But

1027
00:52:10.710 --> 00:52:13.630
on the opposite end of the spectrum, they all can

1028
00:52:13.949 --> 00:52:17.239
also agree that this little girl, the happiness and the

1029
00:52:17.260 --> 00:52:18.820
welfare of this little girl is everything. Yes.

1030
00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:20.380
So I dig that. All right.

1031
00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:22.400
Well, we're going to take another, we're going to take

1032
00:52:22.420 --> 00:52:25.420
one last break before we wrap things up. Unless you

1033
00:52:25.500 --> 00:52:30.360
are listening on Patreon, because there is no ad, Amber.

1034
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:34.539
And we're going to talk a little bit more just

1035
00:52:34.579 --> 00:52:37.679
for our Patreon subscribers right now. For the rest of you,

1036
00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:39.980
we'll be back in like 90 seconds.

1037
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.460
We're back. All right. Amber, let's wrap this thing up.

1038
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:50.460
We've been at it for a while because we've just

1039
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.460
been over on the Patreon version. Yes.

1040
00:52:53.539 --> 00:52:54.119
Talking at length.

1041
00:52:54.139 --> 00:52:59.550
You had some great suggestions. And, you know, we had

1042
00:52:59.590 --> 00:53:01.250
that contest, that little challenge.

1043
00:53:02.230 --> 00:53:03.989
Yeah, it's a dab of new time over there.

1044
00:53:04.170 --> 00:53:05.929
You're going to have to listen to the Patreon version

1045
00:53:05.989 --> 00:53:09.300
to find out how you can, you know, win something.

1046
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:10.719
I'm not going to tell them what they're going to win.

1047
00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:10.940
No.

1048
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.099
Patreon people know. Go find out. Go find out.

1049
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:14.579
All right.

1050
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:21.860
Amber, Christopher Nolan, this whole season, we have, our prestige

1051
00:53:21.909 --> 00:53:24.250
has been that we've been talking about the blockbusters, the

1052
00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:28.590
big movies. We've been celebrating the anniversaries of, of the

1053
00:53:28.929 --> 00:53:30.090
20th and 25th anniversaries.

1054
00:53:30.190 --> 00:53:30.750
Movies from 2001, 2006.

1055
00:53:30.750 --> 00:53:35.809
The Prestige from 2006.

1056
00:53:35.829 --> 00:53:39.110
Just huge when it came out. Everyone loved it.

1057
00:53:40.130 --> 00:53:43.139
My question, someone says, okay, well, I get it. This

1058
00:53:43.219 --> 00:53:46.159
is the IMAX guy. This is the guy that made Batman.

1059
00:53:46.739 --> 00:53:47.760
Does he have.

1060
00:53:47.579 --> 00:53:53.039
Anything a little underrated maybe I should check out? Because

1061
00:53:54.340 --> 00:53:54.800
I'm curious.

1062
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:55.679
What am I missing?

1063
00:53:56.010 --> 00:53:59.300
And I'll remind you, listeners, last week I said Insomnia.

1064
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:00.619
That's my pick.

1065
00:54:01.579 --> 00:54:03.940
No one thinks about Insomnia when they think Christopher Nolan,

1066
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:06.039
partly because he didn't write it.

1067
00:54:06.099 --> 00:54:08.760
He did direct it, obviously, but he didn't write and

1068
00:54:08.780 --> 00:54:09.130
direct it.

1069
00:54:09.739 --> 00:54:12.539
But Insomnia is my pick. Amber, my question, what are

1070
00:54:12.579 --> 00:54:16.030
you– Christopher Nolan, whether he wrote it, whether he directed it,

1071
00:54:16.030 --> 00:54:18.989
I don't think he's done any acting in this. So

1072
00:54:19.389 --> 00:54:22.449
what Christopher Nolan– what underrated Christopher Nolan project would you

1073
00:54:23.210 --> 00:54:24.949
suggest to our listeners?

1074
00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:29.940
I feel like Tenet does not get enough love. I

1075
00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:37.820
really love Tenet. I just think it is a really

1076
00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:43.559
spectacular time. You know, you've got John David Washington.

1077
00:54:43.579 --> 00:54:45.889
Love John David Washington.

1078
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:49.889
Amazing. Robert Pattinson, this I think was the first thing

1079
00:54:49.929 --> 00:54:52.510
I'd seen him in. Because I haven't seen a lot

1080
00:54:52.530 --> 00:54:54.230
of his movies. So this was kind of the first

1081
00:54:54.260 --> 00:54:56.900
thing I saw him in where I was like, he's

1082
00:54:57.219 --> 00:54:59.480
really talented. This is impressive.

1083
00:54:59.539 --> 00:55:01.179
Oh, gosh, yeah.

1084
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:06.400
And then, of course, Kenneth Branagh. Like, I'm there. I'm

1085
00:55:06.500 --> 00:55:15.070
in 100%. And what they do with this inverted timeline

1086
00:55:15.429 --> 00:55:18.179
is really interesting and fun and.

1087
00:55:21.250 --> 00:55:26.909
A lot of good, interesting action sequences. I really enjoy it.

1088
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:30.380
I love Tenet. Oh, good.

1089
00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:30.900
Oh, no.

1090
00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:32.880
I'll tell you.

1091
00:55:33.579 --> 00:55:35.800
I have not seen a Christopher Nolan film that I

1092
00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.829
didn't think was absolutely incredible.

1093
00:55:38.329 --> 00:55:38.889
Same.

1094
00:55:39.929 --> 00:55:41.570
He's got a perfect record as far as I'm concerned.

1095
00:55:41.750 --> 00:55:43.329
And I can't say that about all my favorite directors.

1096
00:55:43.550 --> 00:55:45.989
I can say it about Nolan, though. Here's the thing

1097
00:55:46.010 --> 00:55:48.809
about Tenet, though. And listeners, if you haven't seen Tenet,

1098
00:55:49.449 --> 00:55:53.690
I'll give you this warning. If Memento gave you a migraine,

1099
00:55:55.590 --> 00:55:57.030
Tenet will give you an aneurysm.

1100
00:55:57.690 --> 00:55:57.929
Yes.

1101
00:55:58.650 --> 00:55:59.550
There's so much.

1102
00:56:00.530 --> 00:56:04.449
I just watched a video on Instagram earlier today.

1103
00:56:04.489 --> 00:56:07.780
You sent that to me. Yeah. Can you share that

1104
00:56:07.820 --> 00:56:09.260
super fast? Kenneth Branagh.

1105
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:12.940
Kenneth Branagh has a new movie coming out on Apple TV.

1106
00:56:13.820 --> 00:56:17.179
And so in promoting this movie, he was doing an interview.

1107
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:17.400
Yes. Mayday.

1108
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:22.639
Yeah. He was talking about tenants. He was asked about

1109
00:56:22.699 --> 00:56:27.829
tenants and there is one scene where, you know, they

1110
00:56:27.849 --> 00:56:30.469
would shoot the scenes forward. Well, they're not going to

1111
00:56:30.510 --> 00:56:33.690
be Christopher Nolan's not cheap and just run the footage

1112
00:56:33.750 --> 00:56:38.869
in reverse. They then shot the scene in reverse and

1113
00:56:38.909 --> 00:56:40.530
it took a lot of blocking and a lot of

1114
00:56:40.570 --> 00:56:43.219
rehearsal and everything. And then all of a sudden, Kenneth

1115
00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:45.690
Branagh looked at Christopher Nolan and he said, wait a second.

1116
00:56:46.349 --> 00:56:50.570
If I'm going backwards, I'm walking backwards, right? And he says, yeah.

1117
00:56:50.650 --> 00:56:54.090
And he goes, so shouldn't I be talking Russian backwards?

1118
00:56:55.010 --> 00:56:57.750
And he said that it almost broke Christopher Nolan's brain

1119
00:56:57.769 --> 00:57:00.489
because he almost dug himself into a hole that he

1120
00:57:00.510 --> 00:57:03.610
couldn't get out of. And he was like, yes.

1121
00:57:03.820 --> 00:57:06.139
Yes, you should.

1122
00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:06.239
Yeah.

1123
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:11.360
So Kenneth Branagh and his dialect coach got together and

1124
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:16.500
figured it out. And he is doing everything, including speaking Russian.

1125
00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:17.920
Hats off to him.

1126
00:57:18.460 --> 00:57:22.980
He learns not only how to speak Russian, but how

1127
00:57:23.019 --> 00:57:25.699
to enunciate, you know, use the dialect. And then he's

1128
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:28.400
got to go learn to speak it in reverse. Yes.

1129
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:32.760
I can't speak English in reverse. That's on a whole

1130
00:57:32.860 --> 00:57:37.090
other level of insanity and commitment. We've been kind of

1131
00:57:37.130 --> 00:57:40.130
talking about that with this movie, but Nolan is on

1132
00:57:40.150 --> 00:57:40.809
a whole other level.

1133
00:57:41.289 --> 00:57:43.369
Well, and I think that's why he puts so many

1134
00:57:43.489 --> 00:57:48.690
extras in his Blu-rays is to give the respect to

1135
00:57:48.750 --> 00:57:52.389
his team that... I mean, he makes them work harder

1136
00:57:52.429 --> 00:57:54.179
than they've ever worked on anything before.

1137
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:58.380
Yes, they do. Amber, I have had a blast these

1138
00:57:58.420 --> 00:58:00.400
last three weeks.

1139
00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:03.199
Talking about Christopher Nolan. I know, and for those of

1140
00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:07.530
you that don't know, we are... actually recording this on

1141
00:58:07.630 --> 00:58:10.449
Amber Lewis's birthday. So happy birthday, Amber.

1142
00:58:10.469 --> 00:58:11.070
Thank you.

1143
00:58:11.090 --> 00:58:13.510
I hope you had a, I hope you had an

1144
00:58:13.550 --> 00:58:13.949
awesome day.

1145
00:58:13.969 --> 00:58:18.570
I did. I, I knew it was your birthday when

1146
00:58:18.630 --> 00:58:20.730
I asked you for this night and I was like,

1147
00:58:20.889 --> 00:58:22.710
she's going to say no because it's her birthday.

1148
00:58:22.730 --> 00:58:24.610
She probably got, she's got something that she'd rather do.

1149
00:58:25.210 --> 00:58:27.630
But you know, what if you get to talk to

1150
00:58:27.710 --> 00:58:30.309
Amber about Christopher Nolan on her birthday?

1151
00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:31.050
Right.

1152
00:58:31.469 --> 00:58:35.489
So, I'm glad that we got to talk about one

1153
00:58:35.510 --> 00:58:37.150
of your favorite directors. I'm glad that we got to

1154
00:58:37.190 --> 00:58:39.289
talk about a movie that you absolutely love.

1155
00:58:40.289 --> 00:58:42.739
And it's been a great conversation. I've definitely enjoyed this.

1156
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:44.079
So thank you for that. Thank you.

1157
00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:44.699
Thank you.

1158
00:58:44.739 --> 00:58:47.059
For the gift, Amber. We should be giving you gifts.

1159
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:48.219
You gave us a gift today.

1160
00:58:50.260 --> 00:58:54.780
Next time on A Film By, the conversation around rivalry

1161
00:58:55.219 --> 00:59:00.710
will continue because we're going to discuss the other 2006

1162
00:59:00.710 --> 00:59:03.960
period film about magicians, Talk about the illusionist.

1163
00:59:04.650 --> 00:59:07.230
In my opinion, we'll surprise you.

1164
00:59:07.869 --> 00:59:10.550
I'm looking forward to seeing, because you were like, oh,

1165
00:59:10.590 --> 00:59:11.659
we got to talk about the illusionist.

1166
00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:14.400
And I was like, well, yeah, we'll do it like

1167
00:59:14.420 --> 00:59:17.199
a week after we talk about the prestige. Why wouldn't we? Absolutely.

1168
00:59:17.219 --> 00:59:19.800
Listeners, if you've seen it, how would you summarize it

1169
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:24.940
in exactly five words? Head to afilmbypodcast.com. Give us your answer.

1170
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:28.420
Send us an email. If we use your five-word synopsis

1171
00:59:28.460 --> 00:59:30.849
on the show, we'll shout you out on the episode.

1172
00:59:30.869 --> 00:59:33.010
We'll get you some of film by swag. Be one

1173
00:59:33.030 --> 00:59:34.570
of our super soft, awesome t-shirts.

1174
00:59:34.590 --> 00:59:36.670
It won't be anything else.

1175
00:59:37.349 --> 00:59:39.219
Did I just, was I, did I just Rebecca haul

1176
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:41.300
this and just, did I just give them something that

1177
00:59:41.380 --> 00:59:42.579
I should have said? Maybe.

1178
00:59:42.659 --> 00:59:43.920
Okay. Moving on, moving on.

1179
00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:45.360
Keep going.

1180
00:59:45.980 --> 00:59:50.219
Please join us on social media. You'll find us on YouTube, Instagram,

1181
00:59:50.260 --> 00:59:54.969
Facebook X. We love interacting with you, sharing opinions, taking

1182
00:59:54.989 --> 00:59:58.960
your requests for future episodes, debating great movies, uh, if

1183
00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.699
you have no great movie to debate, if you don't

1184
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:05.420
have an opinion on, on an episode, get on there

1185
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:07.929
right now and just say happy birthday to Amber.

1186
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:10.070
Yeah. Thanks friends.

1187
01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:10.760
Yeah.

1188
01:00:10.820 --> 01:00:13.670
Thanks. Uh, and yeah, all of you, all of.

1189
01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:15.769
You listening to the show, following us on social media,

1190
01:00:15.949 --> 01:00:18.449
subscribing to our Patreon, uh, you know who you are

1191
01:00:18.530 --> 01:00:21.050
because we just had a pretty cool conversation for you guys.

1192
01:00:21.909 --> 01:00:22.789
Uh, we thank you.

1193
01:00:23.389 --> 01:00:26.849
And, uh, Amber, before I say, we'll see you next time. Um,

1194
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.599
I know we're probably going to hit a movie before this,

1195
01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:35.300
but I wanted to point this out. The Prestige is

1196
01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:41.699
getting a 70 millimeter IMAX re-release. It's going to happen

1197
01:00:42.219 --> 01:00:47.090
on January 21st, 2027. So we got some time to wait.

1198
01:00:47.550 --> 01:00:49.190
Be here before we know it.

1199
01:00:49.349 --> 01:00:51.789
But Amber, I'll tell you right now, I'll buy the

1200
01:00:51.829 --> 01:00:52.989
tickets if you buy the popcorn.

1201
01:00:53.389 --> 01:00:53.849
Heck yeah.