James Gunn - Super

0:00 If you were, say, born with superpowers, uh, like like a mutant mutant gene, or there was a lab accident and you were you were bestowed superpowers, would you feel a responsibility to fight crime, to act on those powers, to use that gift. I think my part of me wants to say mm no, But the other part of me, which is the strongest part, the good part, says yes, I would use it for good. I would help people. Let's say you don't have superpowers, have you ever considered being a crime fighter? Like, like, what would it take for you to hit the streets fight crime as a as a costumed vigilante?

0:46 What would it take? Oh? Man, um, I guess something Nasia would happen to have to happen in my life. I guess I don't know. Lose somebody maybe interesting? Well, I asked because I want to talk about I want to have this conversation. I want to talk about a film by James Gunn, his twenty eleven dark strange superhero comedy Super Hello everybody, and welcome back to a Film by podcast. I am Jeff Johnson, I'm David Burns. Dave, thank you for joining us today. Co host Brad Kozo has has got some some technical difficulties. He's gonna he's he's working on them. But you have you swooped in. I did to the studio like like you, like you do and said, I'll save the day and I'll co host. So and I'm always happy to be here. Man, It's always a good time. It's always fun, always awesome to have you.

2:16 I love what you and Scott are doing on a film at forty five. By the way, thank you. I love every minute of that, man, really do. Yeah, fantastic, fantastic stuff. We are talking about James Gunn today. Obviously everyone knows he is the the co CEO, he's the he's the head honcho for DC. Now we got a whole new lineup of DC superhero films coming, and I know we'll get into that later on. Oh yeah, before we get into it, let's start with with today's sponsor, if you will. I want to throw a shout out to James Buckley, Dave, this guy, this amazing guy. Several several episodes ago, we read a a review Apple Review which hailed us as a bingeworthy podcast. You know, a lot of great things said, and the person responsible is our newest patron who recently joined our Patreon and UH signed up and we've got some fun things happening this month thanks to mister James Buckley. Yeah, thanks James, good job. You know some people might be confused with what patron is. Can you kind of explain that to me, because I know when I first heard it, I was like, what is that?

3:36 Absolutely a film by podcast now has its own Patreon where we are providing exclusive bonus content. So far, we have got four episodes out there. One actually I wouldn't call it an episode, Dave, because we did h Brad and I did our first audio commentary track. So you know, for fans of the the nineteen eighty six classic April fools Day, you can now you can now watch the film with audio commentary by Brad and myself, which was a lot of fun. You and I got to do one of He and I have got to do one of those things to a uh. And then because you can't keep a good series down, UH, nineteen eighty six UH has has risen, so to speak, UH, and we got we got a couple of there's like three episodes already on the Patreon that are nineteen eighty six. What we're what we're calling the lost episodes of eighty six if you were so for fans of nineteen eighty six, if you want more of that limited series, which Dave, I know you were a big part of.

4:39 Yeah, it's the year if the year that he's popped up right, Yeah, but that's on the Patreon for as little as three dollars a month, Dave. Uh, you get access to all of the bonus content. And you know, well for three bucks a month, we'll send you a couple of our film by podcast stickers. There's like there's like three different ones now speaking of that, James has actually, uh, he is at the top tier. He is at the producer level. Nice, which, yeah, so he's he has got the stickers, he's got the T shirt, he's got he's got the color changing stadium cups. He gets to choose his own episode for the Patreon, which he has told us he's made his request.

5:26 And James, that will definitely be hitting Patreon this month. We're gonna be doing a special episode for him, all right. And and as a producer, Dave, he now has a say in a future director that we're going to talk about on the show. So, like I said, different levels from anywhere from three dollars to twenty dollars. You call the shots. And fortunately James has great taste, so the film that he has chosen for us to cover is awesome. All right, But you know, I'm just waiting for some prankster to sign up and then just be like, yeah, I'm gonna make him watch this terrible movie. But hey, it's that's what producers do, right, Can I put it out there? Iron Eagle too, Let's do it. Let's do it. Come on, somebody sign up and do it. Oh my god, you really? Oh my lord, Iron Eagle too, Jesus, Oh okay, well well, uh well, more on that later, Dave. Let's talk about James Gunns film Super. I have to I have to believe not a lot of people know about this one, because I've asked a lot of people about it and everyone kind of gives me the confused look. No one's no one's seen this. H Can you tell us a little bit about what Super is? I can um. First, I want to say I'm in that bucket. I did not I had not seen this movie, so I went into it cold, did not know anything about it, and wow, okay, so let me get a little synopsis of this movie. Frank has two things that were perfect in his life, his marriage to Sarah and the time he pointed to where criminal had gone

6:58 to help up pursuing police officers. For most of his life he was picked on and bullied, nothing went his way. Well, things continue to go downhill from even into adulthood. Frank also had visions throughout his life Jesus on his bedroom wall and a childhood friend being a demon. And then on one faithful day, he has the vision of all visions, the finger of God touching his brain. With his wife Sarah leaving him to go with Jock. He now turns to making changes in his life, even as that means continuing to fry cook by day and becoming a superhero known as the Crimson Boat at night or whenever the time felt right. Prepare yourself for a crazy, violent, and one of the strangest superhero films you will ever see. Absolutely this movie I'm gonna go to I was. Let's say it there is. There's definitely some some themes. There's definitely some language use that that's you know, not appropriate. The movie is incredibly violent, yes, and some very uncomfortable scenes. Yes, some some very uncomfortable scenes. This this, this movie, I would say, could easily offend people, um, even when it doesn't mean to. Again, with some of the language that you use, you gotta you know, it's twenty eleven when this comes out. So I feel like some of the some of the language was like, you know, frowned upon but maybe still socially acceptable. Definitely not acceptable by by today's standards, and it never should have been acceptable. But you know, it is what it is, this movie. Like you and you said, you said

8:28 it's strange. This is a strange superhero film, right it is. And Jeff, people look stupid when they cry, oh you got let's let's talk. Let's jump right into the cast because Rain Rain Wilson as Frank Darbo. Yeah, he's he's our here, he's our hero. This is the guy that that loses his loses his wife, his his the beautiful liv Tyler, loses her to scumbag drug dealing Kevin Bacon and decides to become a vigilante, a crime fighter. So you know, I know, we'll talk about recommendations at the end of this, but I just I have to know, like you watched this for the first time regentally. Yeah, what what's your initial thoughts so I can get through this movie? And I had to stop and think about what did I just watch? What just happened in this movie?

9:16 And No, I really liked it. It was fun, it was a little crazy at times. It reminds you of kick Ass a little bit, and in a way, um, just a little right instead of left is what this movie does. So yep, yeah, Rain's sensation on this. I mean, everyone knows him, you know. I think his go to performance is probably most likely Dwight Shrut from the office. Everyone knows him as Dwight Shrut. Ye. I love when this guy shows up in a genre movie like this. What he showed up in Rob Zombie's The Devil's what was it a House of a Thousand Corpses? Yeah? Yeah, I mean he's he's amazing as Dwight Trute, but he it's more amazing what he's just what he's just being in anything else. I feel like like I loved him in this. He really did good job of playing weird, but he also did a good job of playing broken and shattered from like torments of life. Oh gosh, he I mean, I kind of feel like this movie puts you through a couple different emotions, like something does. And sometimes some parts you're like, you're laughing, some parts you're kind of you're taking a back, you're kind of shocked, and then other times you're just you're kind of heartbroken for this guy. He does play a broken individual really well, I think.

10:33 And you get to a certain point with this character too, you're almost like, what what are you doing? Man? You've gone over the line that you shouldn't be doing, especially when he meets um Libby, and you know, Libby becomes a part of it, and you're like, then you see what both of them are doing together, and then he finally realizes this isn't right, you know. So But and we'll talk a little bit more about how the movie ends and stuff like that, because one of my favorite parts of this movie is the ending of the movie and what it means. And we'll talk Yeah, well you mentioned Libby, who who plays like the sidekick character. You know, Elliott Page brilliant in this performance. Yeah, this is this is way before Umbrella Academy. Um, so it's just fun to see Elliott Page chewing up the scenery right when you meet at the comic bookstore. Yeah, and just how awkward that character is, you know, and just and it just matches Frank's character, even though Frank didn't see it at first, later on he finally realizes, all right, maybe I do need a sidekick. And they work well together to a certain degree because Libby is still way out there. Yeah. Well you mentioned the way they are, Like Libby definitely socially awkward in the sense that Libby says things there's no

12:05 filter, right, um, and then Frank very socially awkward, just doesn't know how to talk to people at all. Right, So to see to see this, yeah, to see this, to see them coming together as like this is going to be the crime fighting team is fantastic. And uh, I know we're talking about cast a quick shout. Please tell me that you recognized the jerk in the comic book store in the back. No, I didn't. Who was that he plays? He's actually from the Peacemaker. He plays economos on Peacemaker like they're like they're tech guy. Yea, yeah, Steve, Steve Agee. I think I'm saying that right. I hope I'm saying that right. Uh. If he's listening. Apologies if I'm not saying it right, but yeah, that's that's that's him. That's it.

12:52 That's Economos, so you know, and that's just you know, that's that's James Gunn who finds a great group people to work with and he's gonna work with him throughout his entire career. You know, this is twenty eleven. Yeah, and now we're in twenty and twenty three with the Peacemaker and these guys are still working together. So yeah, I mean even in Guardians and Galaxy, you see a lot of these people popping up. Yep. You know, um, you've got um Michael Rooker. Michael Rooker, He's he's definitely a go to guy for for James gun Worker plays a great hinchman. He really does man no matter what he does. Uh. You know. It's it's odd because this is kind of a smaller role for Michael Rooker, especially at this point in his career. Uh, he's like the lead hnchman, you know. Uh, but he also kind of has I like that Michael Rooker takes the opportunity to show that he has a conscious. You know.

13:46 There's a couple of scenes, you know where you can see, like, you know, what he he knows what they're doing is wrong. Yeah, he doesn't like it, but he's also he's listening to his boss kind of a kind of a thing. Yeah, you see it play on his face at times, you are correct, um, and then he feels uncomfortable at times. You're right. He's getting paid by a boss and he's gonna do what he wants. It's that simple. It is that simple. Uh So, Rain Wilson Elliott Page the lovely liv Tyler. Were you were you surprised to see her in a role like this? Dave, Yes, I was. I mean, because it's not your typical female lead at all, you know, not at all. Yeah. Half the movie she's she's kind of just incoherent and drugged out. You know, she's you know, because she's a recovering addict who succumbs to the uh, the wiles of Kevin Bacon, you know, and you know she's like a hostage. Shut the whole thing, and that's what sets uh, that's what sets Frank on his mission to to to save his wife, you know. And she played it well because I'm telling you, I don't know how easy it is to play it looks like you're drugged out of your mind. But she did a really good job with that. Yeah you mentioned uh you mentioned Sean Gunn already another one of the Hunt Henchman. Another couple couple of other small cameos in this um.

15:03 You got Linda CARDLINI. I was surprised by that, the pet in the pet story. Yeah, she's just she's in there for like one minute. You know. Uh. I always love when Nathan Phillion is with James Gunn. You what did you think of the Holy Avenger? The Holy Avenger? Like, when that commercial came on, I'm like, what the hell is this? He's he's he's at home, he's watching the All Jesus Network. Nathan Phillion plays the Holy Avenger. Who is He's got one of the goofiest superhero costumes of all time. But it's like very much a spoon fed you know, this is why sin is wrong and yep, you know, I'm gonna save the children type of thing. And that's the that's James Gunn.

15:48 Did you did you pick up the Demons the demon? Uh? I forget what the demon's name is or did it have a name. Demons demons will maybe means Will. That's it. It's Will. Yeah. Yeah, he just's like he's he's almost like a prototype for a for Nightcrawler, for the X Men, the way they have him. The whole tongue thing, the whole tongue. Yeah, the tongue flicking thing that he does. He is crazy and that and that. But uh, it's just it's crazy some of the some of the small cameras we have in there, because again some of the some of our big name guys and gals, they're they're playing very small roles. Uh. This was a fun one. I did not I didn't know this until I was doing a little bit of homework. The Voice of God, you know, because we talked about how God kind of taps Frank Yep, you know, he gets the he gets the divine inspiration.

16:45 Guess who's a voice? I guess who's voicing God? Who is it? Rob Zombie? How about that? Is that ironic? Rob Zombie? Yeah? Rob Zombie as the wast of God. There you go one company. By surprise, I actually had to rewind a little bit. Well I said rewind, but you know, I just dated my age. But anyway, I had to go back to catch it because it happens really quick. William Kat, Yeah, at first I was like it was that William Kat had to go back and watch it against Holy crap, it is. Yeah, I'm telling you, man, this is this one. It's worth a rewatch just to try and spot all the all the cameos. Yeah. Because and again, how is How's James Gunn doing this? Because this is a this is this is his debut film, you know, so I'm kind of thinking, like, you know, why is everyone just showing up on on set to to do small roles for James Gunn at a time when he's not James Gunn. I thought that was kind of funny. Yeah. Uh, Kevin Bacon, is this like the coolest, most easygoing villain you've ever seen in a in a superhero movie? It really is. One of the scenes that I laughed hysterically was when Frank confronted him and he like hit his car.

18:04 He goes the car and he goes and slowly touches the car a game with his finger. He goes, don't, don't well, let's let's back up for a second, because, like we're introduced to him, he just shows up at the door, the screen door. He's like Hey, how's it going, which is he's super friendly, but it's really creepy how he is in his black Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Frank's just sitting there making eggs. He's like, are those eggs? Can I have some? And like you said, Frank's been bullet his whole life, so he doesn't know how to stand up the people or saying no. Right, So you get this awkward breakfast between you know, Rain Wilson and uh and Kevin Bacon these brown eggs. Yeah, he's so delightful as a as a villain. And then he's like, yeah, tell tell your wife I stopped by. Yeah, and you know it's like uh. And then like the next scene like she's gone, right, she she's in overhead. Now she's now she's with Kevin Bacon, and you know, he completely loses it. But that scene where he goes running up and he's like banging on Kevin Bacon's car, and that's where we finally get a little hint of the villainy. He's like, look, I'm gonna give you one last chance. Don't don't touch my f and car ever again. And he just puts like one his index finger. He's like, I'm telling you that's it. That's the last one. And he does it again and he's like, Okay, you know that's not the that's not the kind of touching I meant. You know that, I'm gone, gone, I'm about it here, I'm believe it. But I love that

19:34 moment for Rain Wilson's character Frank, because that's where he's starting. Like I feel like the Crimson Bolt is born in that moment because he is, he is defiant, he still, he stands up right, yep, exactly. Can we talk about the weirdest divine inspiration seen in any movie probably ever filmed? Because this movie. I mean, first off, I love the opening, the with the animation, the the anime. Whenever they use get an animated, they're always fun, right. Uh So that kind of puts you on the in a in a fun it's it's it's weird because it tricks you because like you're like, oh, this is gonna be fun. I'm gonna laugh the whole time, and it's gonna be like a funny superhero movie.

20:15 And then we go dark because in that animation, yeah, well yeah, it's but it's like looney like, oh yeah's that's that's funny. That guy's head exploded, but you know, I'm laughing because it's a cartoon and then we go dark and we're gonna see that on screen. But right this this uh, this scene, man, it's just strange, you know, I know, it's just you get like the tentacles like saw and open his head and then you know, God's like and I think that relates back to the the anime porn that he was watching on TV. Yeah, with the tentacles and then like, yeah, what what's that? What? Uh? I don't know what kind of cable package he has, but he goes from like the all Jesus that work too, like, uh, that anime pornography stuff.

21:03 Uh. There's some other movies that you know, I wanted to I wanted to kind of deep dive and figure out what what some of those other movies were. Yeah, um, I think one of them was a trauma movie if I'm not mistaken, And it would make sense when when I get into James Gunn's background, we'll, we'll, we'll, I'll talk about the trauma connection. But um, I love the moment though when he's back at the comic book store because he gets the the inspiration I need to fight crime, and he's such a novice. He goes to he goes straight to the comic bookstore where Libby is like behind the counter working, and he's like, yeah, I need the Holy Avenger, and she, you know, has some choice words for the Holy Avenger comic and you know then of course, but starts educating him, right, you know, like, yeah, you want to, you want to, you want to read this, you want to read that. But I love the line that that Libby has because it you know, where he gets the he has the weird dream, the divine inspiration dream. Then he has the moment, the moment of clarity if you will, you know, because Libby's like I always wonder like why doesn't anyone just become a real superhero, right, why doesn't it happen? You know?

22:11 And then like like Frank says, you know, all it takes is the choice to fight evil. And I love that moment because we've seen it in like other movies, you know, Boondocks, Saints kick Ass. Like the questions always asked. That's why you know, we we That's why I asked you, like, what what would it take? You know, why don't why doesn't it happen. You know, I love that moment though. It's a good moment. Let's talk about his uh you know he obviously he goes to the whole homemade costume uh trope, which is fun himself. Yeah, but I love when he's trying out, when he's trying out different catch phrases. Shut up crime. That has got to be one of the best catch phrases for for a vigilante ever, right, yep. Man just leads to it, just leads to his awkwardness. Man, It was just perfect for it for who he is. Yeah, but then he you know, he tries, he goes out, he tries. He doesn't go very well for him, does it go very well? Because he's he's just a guy who pulls up in his you know, his beat up car and you know, waits and tries to tries to stop a drug dealer. It kind of gets his ass handed to him and doesn't really think ahead. He does mention it later on towards the end of the movie about his license plate on the car. I mean that's not a very good move man. Yeah, the boltmobile. Ye. Well, like, you know, he goes out, he tries. It's back to the drawing board. He's back to the comic book store. What about what about heroes without without that? Without powers that

23:42 he weapons, And again Libby is like his his instructor, like you know, Batman, batter rangs and the utility belt. He's like, ooh, utility belt, like like like I like that, you know, I think green arrow or you know, has a bow and arrow like you know. Then kept to marry. Oh no, no, no, he's got powers put that way, but that way he's a super soldier, so that doesn't count. So yeah, it doesn't count because now Libby is invested in this guy, like you know, you're building your own hero, like what's going on? And he ends up with He ends up settling on a on a pipe wrench, a steel pipe wrench. You can buy the home depot. It just goes out starts beating the shit out up people. It's one of the one of the funniest moments in this movie that made me lamb. There's a bunch of moments in this movie that will make me laugh. One of them that really got me was when he was hiding behind the dumpster for the first time and he was like narrating stuff that was going on and he goes out walk quickcause he heard something. He goes it was just a box.

24:40 The wind was pushing it down the street. I will get it later. I just want to want to expose my position. Yeah, he's just hanging out on a dumpster. Yeah, this movie has a lot of fun moments. I think. Uh, but again, like the first time he hit someone with that wrench, Oh my gosh. And then you see it, you're like, whoa. I mean, the guy's selling selling pot or I don't know what he was selling, but you know, tie stick or whatever he says. But you're like, whoa, dude, that's a little excessive. But then like the the guy that's trying to molest the little kid, then you're happy. You're like, yeah, beat the you know, take that guy's head off. You know, you're excited about it. But again, Frank, yeah, this because he's a shattered person and he's clearly like like the they keep interviewing the cop on TV, and the guy's like, we're talking about a psychopath, you know, and you can quickly go from beating people up to murdering people quickly. And we see that because now he's just standing in line waiting to get into a movie theater and people cut in front of him. He's like, he tries to he tries to do the right thing by saying, hey man, you can't cut you know, no no button into line, and the guy you know tells him to f off.

25:59 Basically, then he has that awkward change. He just his cars parked right across the street. You know, he has an awkward change, comes right out and bashes that guy. It's like, you know where part I'm not gonna lie part of me because Dave, you and I have been going to movies together for twenty years now, and we've been in some theaters where you got people talking or you got people being annoying, and you know, some people you know you want to you know, they don't listen to being you know, you should show him they don't. You know, they're not gonna respond to that. I'm telling you. Part of me was kind of kind of smiling. But with that guy, the rude movie patron gets what's coming to him with the runch. It's like, yeah, that's what did you pick up the girl too with it? Well, yeah she was she got in the way, and you know, then he smashes hurt in the face and I'm like, dude, you've gone too far now it's right, yeah, but uh you know he and he you know, going too far.

26:53 He tries you know, now he gets hurt, right, you know, he gets shot. He goes to Libby, reveals his identity because Libby's on. Libby's on to Frank quickly, Libby goes to him at at you know, where's a fry cooking? Ask the question you are you him? It's cool if you are, you know, because Libby is eating up the superhero thing right right? How how ridiculous was was Libby's audition? Like he just what is that? One of the most awkward auditionships I've ever seen in my life. Lebby finishes up. I like that. Frank just with a with a questioning tone, goes cart wheels. It's okay, you know what, just wants to be the kid's sidekick. You know, how old are you? I'm twenty two, but still, you know, compared to you, I'm I'm a kid. So it's just it's a It's a wild film man, absolutely wild. It's all over the police. Yeah. I just I feel like Gunn does a good job of the minute you get comfortable, uh thing, then he kind of throws something at you that makes you like, oh dude, that's that's not cool. Yeah. The the the very awkward sex scene between Liddy and Frank know one, I'm talking about that.

28:17 Yeah, that's where I'm talking uncomfortable and really uncomfortable. Yes, it was. And then he goes and throws up in the toilet and then you get to see his puke become what it was at the face of Sarah. I think. Yeah, it was just like, oh my god, just so awkward. The film is weird, you know, it just is. Yeah. You know we uh we were talking about Kevin Bacon and how easy going he is. Are you aware he was not the first choice for for Jack No, who was supposed to be shocked. Surprisingly, Jean Claude van Dam was originally cast. Yeah, Bandam is originally cast in this movie. I can see that totally. You could totally see it, right, yes, a yeah, but uh, right up until it was time to shoot, he kind of went a wall. No one can get a hold of him.

29:12 And James Gunn like they're they're ready to shoot, and he basically decides like I can't I can't trust this guy. I can't count on him. No, you can't have that not making a movie. Kevin Bacon stepped in a week before he had to be on set at the very last minute. So much like you swooped in today, Kevin Bacon swoops in to play Jacques. Um. Yeah, and I have to imagine there's other there's other casting whatevers. Possibly. But before we talk about that, let's talk a little bit about the production of this movie. Yeah. Absolutely, um two point five million dollar budget. Unfortunately it owned only earned four two dollars worldwide, was not very successful at the box office. Um. But when it did come out for streaming in DVD sales, it picked up a lot of sales.

30:00 I was there with that. So get that cult following going, which a lot of movies movies like this usually do. Would you call this a cult movie? I would? Yeah, I would too, right because yeah, I didn't see at the theater. I heard about it and I was like, oh, let me check it out. Well, the only reason I watched this because you asked me to do the podcast, and I was like, Okay, there we go. Now now I consider it like one of those unusual movies that I'll go back to all right. Um. Super was filmed between December of two thousand and nine in January at two thousand and ten in Shreveport, Louisiana, of all places. Jeff, really, okay, uh real quick, not I don't want to cut you off, but you know what also is awesome about Louisiana. No, what that's where James Buckley comes from? Is it really our patron? Who is who's who has made this episode possible? Yeah? Are you serious? I cannot, You're just like, yeah, I was in Louisiana. I was like, wait, this guy's I know this guy's in Louisiana. That was not intentional, by the way, that just what a coincidence. You go again, please thanks by once again, James, thank you, please continue. Dave Sorry, Yeah, absolutely no, that's that's cool. Additional shooting was done at director James Gunns home in La California, and the comic book store that we see in the movie is actually a real store called Comic Smash in Studio City, which I think is a really neat place to go a visit now, Jeff, hint, hint, Wait, Studio City in Louisiana, Studio City, California. Okay, I've wait, Yeah, I've been to that.

31:32 I've been to that store. Oh you have, then you've been to Yeah, you're talking about Studio City. Yeah, I guess I've been to Comic Smash. That's that's the comic bookstore that you see in Super Holy Cow. Yeah, isn't that neat? Yeah, I'd never even thought about that. Well there, Yeah, I went there with Brad uh years ago. You know you didn't. I gotta now, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta do some fact check. I might be in the background. You never know, You never never know. Yeah, me and a coonamos Um. James Gunn started writing this in two thousand and two but clearly struggled to get it made because well, we've talked about the violence in this movie and a lot of people didn't want to touch it because of that. Jeff, I don't know if you know this or not, but did you know Frank was supposed to be played by John c Riley? Okay, so I didn't see that. I was. I was all excited about Oh I'm gonna let anyone know about Van Damn. But you're saying, so John c Riley is the original? Yeah, Um, James wanted John c Riley to play it.

32:36 He was writing it for him, but apparently John c Riley wasn't what a big enough name at the time. So, um, that's kind of when why they went with Rain Wilson in that role. Really, because I'm thinking, John c Riley this this movie comes out in twenty eleven, so at this point, he's already done Step Brothers. Yeah, he's a big I think he. I think he's done Talladega Nights, right, How is he's done Boogie Nights? I know for a fact. How is it? How did the studios not see him as a big enough name. That's a good question. That's weird and not that not that I'm not wanting Ray Wilson in this role, but yeah, I just that's kind of strange. I think part of it was, Um, when he was doing writing the movie, he wanted to bring this out sooner than the two thousand and ten that we got, so those movies came out because he struggled to get it made because the violence and stuff, nobody wanted to touch it. So I think some of it was that. But Gunn his ex wife Jenna Fisher, who as we all know, was in the office with Rain Wilson. She recommended Rain Wilson for the role of Frank. So James Gunn you know, she gave him the script. He liked it and you know, became the part of Frank. But he also brought on Elliott Page because they were together in Juno.

33:55 Oh that's right, Ray Wilson wasn't Juno yep. Okay, that's an interesting way. That's an interesting connection. So Studio says no to John c Riley, his x Y Jenna Fisher, who he's he's still friendly with. You know, she's been in a couple of his movies, right, So she recommends Rain Wilson. Rain Wilson recommends Elliott Page. I wonder who recommended Economos. I'm not gonna lea. I'm not gonna leaves. I'm not gonna leave Steve A. Gela probably today today. I love that guy. I just love I love the character and peacemaker, so absolutely. I know you kind of alluded to what you'd say. You were saying, like your favorite scene. Uh, one thing I want to talk about. Uh, let's talk about the pivotal scene in this film. I'm not gonna ask you what you like, what you don't like, what your favorite scene was I want to know, David, is there a is there one scene in this film that you think is to its success or pivotal to telling the story? Like there is there one moment where you're like, you know what, Without that scene, this film doesn't work for me. And I alluded to this to at the beginning of the podcast. It's the ending. How you're going to bring this movie to a closure is huge in any movie because it's gonna make you realize, I've invested all this time into these characters, and if you

35:30 don't give me the ending that I want, it's going to just ruin the whole thing for me. For this, I was getting to the point where Frank was just bothering me. You know, he was pissing me off because he was this you know, he was just going around beating people. He was wanting to be a superhero, but at some point he wasn't a superhero. And then I understand what he was trying to do. He's wanting to get his wife Sarah back. But what I loved loved about the script and I loved about this movie. I'm appreciate where James Gon went with it. The fact that he gets Sarah back, only for Sarah to leave him again, And to me, that built his character into this. He did all of this to prove to himself that him and Sarah weren't to be together.

36:15 But he's a real superhero because he was sacrificing himself for somebody else. She went on to become a better person, She went on to have a family, she went on to have kids, a husband, and if he hadn't done what he did, none of that would have happened for Sarah. And to me, that was pivotal for the entire movie and made me appreciate Frank Moore because he ended the story pretty much where he began alone, but went out of his way to take care of someone. I agree with you on this might be one of the most emotionally satisfying endings to a movie that doesn't have the quote unquote happy ending, right yep, Because he does save her life and I'm not saying yeah, technically he saves her life from the bad guys, but he saves her life because he gives her the opportunity to have the life that she should have always had exactly, So I absolutely love that.

37:24 I love the fact, you know, the movie kind of they do this great book ind thing with the pictures on the wall. You know, you talked about his two favorite moments, the day he married Sarah and the day he helped the police officer catch a bad guy. He draws almost like a child wood. He draws the picture and he puts him on the on the on the wall, and it's like his daily affirmation. Right, He's like, I will look at these and I will start my days off great knowing that this is this is the best I ever did. And now we when we come to the ending, it's Sarah's children who know him as uncle Frank, and he's getting the photo. He's getting their hand handmade drawings or crayon drawings, and he's seeing all this other nice moments that he did, like where he's just helping people at work and you know, he's friendly moments between him and other people. And you see that Frank has had the opportunity to grow as a person. You know, now he's not socially awkward.

38:21 He's out there living his best life and it's not with her, but it's still it's still pretty damn good. Yeah, because he this is a character that you know, it's it's odd because, like you said, he is right back where he started. But he's back where he started. But he also it's almost like hitting the reset button because he now is a better person. He's stronger, and he's he's happier, right right, yep. I love that moment me too. That changed the whole movie for me, It really did. Did you grow up with a lack of parental supervision? You know all the lyrics to the Fresh Prince of bel Air? Remember Mary Mcheese and the fride Guys? That an inexplicable love for the canthn e racist?

39:04 Can you remember Macdonna's original phase? And you might be a part of the Doom Generation. We laugh until you cry with us each week as we stumble blindly through the memories of the movie. Another random thing that doomed us to be the salty, sarcastic, sardonically East You want to hang in? Do you know us? You love us? You can't live without us. Doom Generation available everywhere you find podcasts. Hey, this is Jason Colvin or the Surely You Can't Be Serious? Podcast. On our podcast, James D. Graves and I we break down movies of the eighties and nineties, even the seventies, and also music. We go track by track through albums. If you were an MTV watcher in the early eighties, you will definitely love our podcast. And if you enjoyed what I've said on this podcast, you definitely want to go over to the film by Patreon page because I'm coming back and we're going to do some great episodes over there. Welcome back, everybody.

40:00 So, Jeff, we know this is directed by James Gunn. What can you tell us about him? Dave? What can I not tell you about James Francis Gunn Junior. Um. I'll try to be as brief as possible, because man, I mean, we're not talking about someone that's been on the scene for forty fifty years. But there is a lot to talk about, so buckle up, I will tell you this. He is from a big family from Saint Louis, Missouri. At age twelve, Like a lot of directors we've talked about, he begins making movies on eight millimeter with his brothers in the genre of comedic splatter, which, if you think about his work, that makes perfect sense, right because he was actually inspired by Night of the Living Dead thirteenth and Fangoria Magazine. Nice, he's awesome. Yeah yeah. So the crazy thing here is he drops out of Saint Louis University High College preparatory school to pursue a career in rock and roll. Really interesting, okay he he uh. He forms a band called the Icons. He's the lead singer. They release an album in nineteen ninety four called Mom We Like It Here on Earth. Now, I can't tell you. Two singles off of that album end up in Trauma Movies. We'll have to talk a connection. There's another connection. We'll have to talk to Dayton Johnson at Docking Base seventy seven to see if we can get an album review of Mom we

41:34 Like It Here on Earth. So, Dayton, if you're listening, uh, please help us out with that. Yeah, get on that dating now he does. Now. He does eventually return to school, receives his BA after After after college, he's doing odd jobs here and there before interviewing for a summer job at Trauma Studios to file paperwork, and guess what, Dave, he doesn't file paperwork. He gets paid one hundred and fifty dollars to write his first script, Tromeo and Juliet. He wrote that. Yeah, have you seen that one? No, I've heard of it. But it is weird, dude. I mean, well, we're talking about Trauma movie, so to say it's weird is that's like saying, well, yeah, it's a it's a movie. It's that's that's all their stuff. The cool thing here is that he actually befriends Lloyd Kaufman, who we know who that is. You can't talk about Trauma without talking about Lloyd Kaufman. But Lloyd actually becomes his mentor in a way. And while working with Lloyd Kaufman, James Gunn learns how to write screenplays, scout locations, direct, produce, create his own poster artwork. I mean he's getting a film school education from Lloyd Kaufman basically. Yeah, And together they write the book All I need to know about filmmaking I learned from the Toxic Avenger M. So we gotta put that on the shopping list. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, Now

43:06 he's got you know, he's he's kind of got experienced. He writes a script for Warner Brothers. Do you remember the Mad magazine the Spi Versus Spy cartoons, So he writes Spi Versus spy for Warner Brothers. They pass on it, but like what they see so that instead they hire him to write Scooby Doo. Yeah, I knew he wrote Scooby Doo. Yeah. After Scooby Doo, obviously, he goes on to write both the Dawn of the Dead remake and Scooby Doo Two Monsters Unleashed. Now this is impressive because this makes him the first screenwriter in the history of cinema to write back to back number one at the box office hits. So think about that. Dawn of the Dead comes out number one the box office. I remember you and I went and saw it. Thing was awesome. Right. A week later, new number one movie at the box office, Scooby Doo, Two Monsters Unleashed.

44:00 M Danny James Gunn. You got it going on? Man? He does, And you know, basically it's at this point now he has he's arrived. He can he can make He can make a movie if he wants, He's gonna direct something. Uh. And before we get into his filmography, let's just talk about two other accolades. You you kind of mentioned this before, but he marries Jenna Fisher in two thousand, The Adorable Pam Beasley. You know they're married. A great relationship. It only lasts seven years, it ends on good terms. And now he's currently married to Jennifer Holland, impressive actress who uh we know and love in the Peacemaker series where she plays Hardcourt, co starring Steve Agee as Economos. I can't get away from that guy. Dave, you want to talk a little bit about this filmography, because uh, yeah, let's talk about it. It's not it's not a long one by Byney stretch of the imagination, but it is quite impressive.

45:06 We talked about, you know, his the writing, the screenwriting he did with Tremy and Juliet and could we do dawna Dead two thousand and six, the monster movie Slither. That's very that's a very unusual movie too. I remember Nathan Folian plays in that too, doesn't he. Yeah, you got Nathan Phillion as as the police chief. Elizabeth Banks, she's in it. Michael Rooker playing the head, the main villain who you know. The thing, the weird thing is with Michael Rooker, because I know we've already talked about him. I feel like somewhere in the nineties he goes from playing hero or like cool guy, right, you know, I think like Cliffhanger, Days of Thunder Tombstone, somewhere along the lines. He like when he starts shaving his head, he just became a bad guy. Like it's the hair man? Is it? If you get Michael Rooker with a shaved head, he's he's immediately a bad guy. Think about it, you know, mall rats, Uh Slyther, he's he's always Yeah. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what's that saying about us? We that we look villainous. But uh, Jenna Fisher, she's in She's in Slyther.

46:21 I love Slyther because it is a good old fashioned monster movie. Yeah, it's great. It reminds me. Also, we talked on the nineteen and six series. We talked. I talked with Jason Colvin from Surely You Can't Be Serious podcast about Night of the Creeps and this is that similar thing. You got these like slimy slug things from outer space. Yep, you know, crash land on Earth and you know small town America and they're running rampant disgusting. Though again, Gun does not hold back on the gore in Slither. I love it though, it's just like, yeah, definitely shouldn't because it's got it's community moments too. But if you've not seen Sleither, that is that is fantastic. Ye. Uh. Four years later he's, uh, you know, rights directs a super We've been talking about that.

47:09 Um. He has built up a name for himself obviously when it comes to screenwriting, he's a hit maker. And uh that's when twenty fourteen, the the MCU comes knocking and his career really takes off. Guardians of the Galaxy. Yep, I'm gonna ask you because Dave, I know you're an avid comic book reader, just like just like James Gunn and just like myself. Were you aware of Guardians? Because I know they're we're talking like at this point, they're they're they're I don't even know if they're se level characters, right, you know, I think I I vaguely remembered them in like a team up, but that I couldn't have told you anyone, because I remember when Guardians comes out, I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work. I was the same way Jeff, Um. I didn't know anything about it because I remember when it was being announced was like, what, who, I don't know this comic book, And then when the trailer came out, I'm like, oh, this actually looks pretty fun, And sure enough it was a lot of fun. Yeah. Guardians of the Galaxy the tenth film in the MCU with and Man at a time where people are starting to go Marvel's getting a little a little bit, you know, the formula is getting a little old. This completely changes the game. Right, Oh, it was fresh, all new characters. We've never seen a new story. Absolutely, yeah, I loved it. Something two years later, twenty sixteen. He doesn't direct this, but he does write it and produce it. Did you ever see the Belco Experiment? No, I've not seen

48:39 that. You gotta check this one out. Aside from the fact that it's a really cool horror film, it's this weird. It's like a social experiment that goes horribly wrong. So you're in an office building where it's almost like Jigsaw from Saul is in charge. It's like a corporate, corporate setting and these uh, these employees get locked into their high rise building. A voice basically comes on and says, you know, no, not everyone's getting out alive. So it's it's it's almost like a it's like a battle royal type of situation where here's the weapons and if you don't start killing each other, everyone dies. They have to make choices. It is, it's crazy.

49:22 Michael Rooker is in it. Michael Rooker, I think if I remember, he plays like a maintenance guy. I think it is wild. Though, Sean guns in it. I can tell you that, Yeah, of course he is. But it's it's a really cool thriller. It's a it's a fun horror film. I would definitely put it on your radar because it's cool. You'll you'll like it, I promise you. Okay, back to back to Marvel Guardians the Galaxy Volume two Kurt Russell, who we love, but not a lot of people loved Volume two, Now I did. So did you ever understand like where people were like it wasn't as good, Like are they just being superhero snobs? Or I think so because I enjoyed that movie a lot. I don't know where they're coming from on that. It had a lot of motion, it had a lot of heart, and it had a lot of comedy, and I was very entertained it did. And that's the one that kind of gives us like that's where Drax kind of takes the comedic route, you know, with his like I'm so still, you can't see me. Yeah, I don't know. I loved it, you know, rockets, rockets coming into his own. I think it's a fantastic film.

50:30 I loved it. Um. So right after this, he does what might be one of the coolest superhero films that that you don't know as a superhero film. Now he didn't direct. Again, Dave, I'm cheating a little bit because he didn't direct it, but he did. He did produce this one, and you know, I think he had his hands were in it a little bit. Um. I'm talking about a film called bright Burn. Oh I forgot about that one. Yeah, did you see that? It's the the idea, the synopsis, if you will. It's what a Superman landed on Earth and wasn't good, wasn't a nice guy. It's all about Elizabeth Banks, who we you know, who was in slither Uh her and her husband like they they they're farmers, you know. The meteorite crashes very much Superman like they they there's a baby inside. They Hey, it's our it's our child. You know, and then as his kid grows up, he gets strong, he gets these powers, but he's a little he's a little dark. Yeah, well it's yeah, he doesn't understand like it's like he just like he's got that child childlike mentality of like I want something, and if I want why can't I have it? But the only thing is where you're normal twelve year old, like you can ground and send him to the room. This kid can like burn your skull open with with lasers shooting out his eyes. So it's a it's really manum but really cool.

52:01 I love Brakeburn. It's it's one of those, you know, great superhero film that you don't know as a superhero film. Yeah, loved it. Well, it sounds like you loved it too. In twenty twenty one, though, he goes back to the I shouldn't say the lighter side of a superhero, the other side of superhero world, but he does go to the other side with the DC Extended Universe. Does the suicide Squad? Would you would you think of that a lot of fun? I know they had done a suicide Squad before, which ye wasn't that good? This one was much much better and of course, the James Gunn in control. That's why it turned out as good as it did. I had a lot of fun in this movie. I'm I'm I'm one of the few people that it's willing to admit that the first Suicide Squad. I liked it. I enjoyed it.

52:50 It had its it had its major mistakes, but it also had some really cool stuff in it. Ye. But James Gunn taking his version, and this is where DC is smart. James Gunn is brilliant because it's not a remake. Nope, it's just it's a continuation. Right, So the first one counts. The first one is is in Cannon and he finds a way to make it his own thing. Keeping a couple couple of characters from the first movie holds him over. Yep. It introduces us to a whole new cast of incredibly awesome characters. Uh, definitely looking at you sliced alone with with King Shark and I did too. I did too, Absolutely loved it.

53:34 And James Gunn gets his taste of DC and we know where that's going all we do. And uh, ironically we were just talking how remember how I said, Uh, Guardians of the Galaxy was the tenth movie for the mcu ye James Gunns. The Suicide Squad is the tenth movie for the DC Extended Universe, So coincidence maybe maybe maybe not? Maybe So he's been busy. We've got Dave. We're just a couple of days away from Guardians of the Galaxy Volume three. Can't wait hitting hitting theaters. I am super excited for this one because that trailer it looks like all bets are off, Like I, you know, you and I were talking when we first saw the trailer, like, someone's not making it out of this, you know, is it? Is it Peter, No, No, it's tracks. No, no, it's rocket Like the trailer like whoever cut that trailer is brilliant because you just don't know what to expect, right right, Yeah, they hide it well, but it's definitely gonna be an emotional roller coaster. You can see it's coming. I think you're right, it's it looks so good.

54:40 Um, this is this is a great way for him to to head out of the MC take take his exit. Yep, Because we didn't really talk about the Holiday special. Do you want to talk about that real quick? The one where we get Kevin Bacon in it, which I think is hysterical. Yeah, that was. I like that Disney is doing stuff like that, where hey, it's gonna be a couple of years before you see this these guys together again. But here's something fun for you to hold you over. Yeah. When I first heard wait, James Gunn's doing a holiday, a Christmas special for the Guardians, I gotta see that. I don't know how that's gonna work, but I thought it was fun. I enjoyed it, you know, and it got me excited for Guardians. The gota see volume three until the trailer came out, and then was like, oh wow, this is it's funny. Don't get me wrong. The trailer has some funny moments, especially between Nebula and Peter in that elevator or wherever they're at. But but for every moment that you want to laugh in the trailer, there's there's two moments where you're like, oh man, this doesn't look good. You corrupt. What's gonna happen? I know? Yeah, speaking of what's gonna happen, uh, we gotta talk about what's next on his plate? Yeah, you know, what's something next on his plate? Superman?

55:54 Yeah, Superman legacy. Yeah, he is writing it, he's directing it, he's producing it. So I'm gonna ask you, Dave, because everyone immediately had an opinion. So look, you know me, I'm one of the biggest Superman fans out there. Yep. I love Christopher Reeve. Oh yeah, I have loved Henry Cavill in the role Gun. You know, he gets the he gets the job. Ever at DC, he's running the show. Now he's going to kind of make a they're kind of wiping the slate clean, so to speak, and starting from scratch, and you know, Henry Cavill does not fit into his Superman plans, so you know, immediately he you know, he starts a little bit of a backlash.

56:43 But of course I'm gonna say this, I get it, Like, you can't restart an entire franchise. You can't do a whole bunch of world building right where you're gonna have like, you know, three maybe four more Superman movies or three four more Superman appearances with with a Superman that's that's not age appropriate. And I say that meaning you know, you know at the time, like let's just assume that you know, the next Superman movie is gonna be a hit. Well, we're a good five six years away from the next one, and at that point, Henry Cavill is gonna be in his his late forties. I believe maybe he's going too old for it. Yeah, so I love his performance, and I think that I think the mistake here wasn't in recasting. It was just and not moving forward like an else World's title where we get one final Superman movie with Henry Cavill. Yeah, you know, kind of like and they're doing this Els World stuff. You know, Matt Reeves has the Batman right, you know that's going on.

57:46 Todd Phillips, you know, he's got his Joker thing happening. We got a new Joker movie coming out. I don't think it's I don't think it would have been out of line to have Henry Cavill give him his right off into the Sunset film. Do take one of the take one of the many numerous popular graphic novels. Yeah, and uh, and do a Superman movie with with Henry Cavill one one last one. I mean, could you imagine if we could have had Henry Cavill do like Red Sun. Oh my goodness, how great would that have been it would have been wonderful and then just quietly, let's reboot with Superman Legacy. So yeah, yeah, interesting enough Superman Legacy. So James Gunn just recently he because he's pretty vocal on social media, and he was talking about how, um the casting process is going with the film and it's coming together, and he says he's excited and he's relieved. So again, this guy's track record with superhero movies. I trust him. Yeah, Dave, listen to this. Uh. Here's the official synopsis for Superman Legacy. Superman Legacy tells the story of Superman's journey to reconcile his Kryptonian heritage with his human upbringing as Clark Kent of Smallville, Kansas.

59:04 He is the embodiment of truth, justice in the American way, guided by human kindness in a world that sees kindness as old fashioned. Now I do know also, uh, I think uh Gun has been on record of saying, uh, I think who is it Grant Morrison that did All Stars Superman? Uh? He was, he was influenced, heavily influenced by by that, by that story, So true, okay, cool, I think it would be good. Uh DC there you know, they got their first their Phase one Chapter one Gods and Monsters. So we got this Superman legacy kicking it off. We got a Batman and Robin movie, we got Swamp Thing, we got Supergirl, a whole bunch of shows. I I'm hopeful at this point. I am too. I just don't don't put all the blame on James Gunn, people who are out there. This is a Warner Brothers mess. James Gunn's going in here and trying to clean up, and I'm glad they finally have somebody who's in charge, who is going to steer this ship, hopefully in the right direction. I have faith in James Gunn, I really do, and I can't wait to see what he brings to us on screen for Superman. And just like you, Jeff, Christopher Reeves always going to be the best Superman. No one is going to come close to him. Henry Cavell did an incredible job as Superman, and I'm going to struggle a little bit when we get the new actor. But again, I have faith in James Gunn. Speaking, I have a faith in James Gunn.

1:00:25 Do you recommend that the listeners check out the film Super absolutely. And one thing I would like to relate to this movie in some way or fashion. It relates to Eagle versus Shark in the quirkiness, the way it was shot, in the odd humor. It really feels like that to me. You're right now that I'm thinking about it. There's moments I'm watching this it does feel like Takai is behind the lens on this. It does. There's moments I felt Kevin Smith was behind the lens. A mixture of a lot of that, and you get that vibe when you're watching the movie. So yes, see this movie because it does. It's violent, it's got some humor, it's got some fun. But in the end you're going to get a good message. Not one that you want to watch with the Kids'll tell you that right now, but I say, yeah, absolutely check this one out. It is not a it's not your run of the mill superhero film, and I think part of that is what makes it makes it so good.

1:01:27 I agree, Dave. Where'd you catch this one? I saw it on TB. I had to watch a few commercials, but I got to watch it for free and got to enjoy a good time. Can I just can I just give an unsolicited promo for TB right now. I am. I am not a paid actor. I am not a paid voice actor. But I will tell you I love to be this man, I don't. It just blows my mind that it's free. Like you don't have to be subscribing to anything. You just have to have it on your TV. That's it. Yeah, you know, And there's so much good uh. I mean, this is a situation where you can watch these these underground, you know, independent movies like like Super they've got new stuff. Yeah, they've got the entire series of like Miami Vice and the A Team Like you, I don't care what, Joe, you want to watch, it's probably on two B Yeah, uncut movies. But like you said, you're gonna you know, you're gonna have some ad breaks occasionally, and I don't mind, don't you know? Ye? Who are we to question free content? If that right? Ye? All right? Well listen, I think that's gonna do it for us. Uh, Dave, Uh, I know, I'm gonna see you in just a few days because we're gonna be heading We're gonna be heading back to the box office to see Guardians of the Galaxy Volume three.

1:03:00 We gotta make time. We're gonna stop in the studio and uh and and give our give our listeners a review on that one. You think I think we should. I feel like we we got a little lazy. We you know, Well it's not No, that's not the right way to say, Dave. We've been busy. There's been so much, there's been so much going on. Uh, but we've still been seeing some good movies. Uh. And we'll we'll let you guys know, uh what we think about Guardians of Galaxy for sure. All right, Well, Dave, I'm gonna ask you before I let you go. Uh. I know you guys only have a few episodes uh left, Yes, but I'm curious, what do you what do you guys got next week? What are you what are you guys doing on um on a film at forty five? Um, well, we're still going down the rabbit hole, you might say, with another animated classic from the nineteen seventy eight, which is a watership down Jeff, I have not seen that since I was very young. I'm sure it did a little bit there. Oh man, you guys will cover that one. I can't. Yeah. I loved what you guys had to say about Lord of the Rings, because again that was as a kid, that's the cartoon I always remembered, was you know that in the Hobbit and you guys were fantastic on that one as well. But uh, I'm I'm kind of excited because the next time on a film buy, we're gonna talk about another blockbuster director uh jj Abrams, and we're talking about one of your favorite We're talking about

1:04:31 one of your favorite films, Dave. Oh yeah, I love that. We we're gonna be talking about we know what that is, right, Yeah, let them know Super eight. Super eight a film about young James Gunn making splatter comedies or camera. It is not about James Gunn, but it is awesome and we'll be talking about that one next time as well. So until then, we see you next time next time. M I've had the voice of Burlives all freaking day. In the minute I hit the record button, I sound like Smiggle trying to up piece of bone from a fish or something. It's ridiculous, ridiculous,