Mike Binder - Indian Summer

0:00 David, I'm curious. You get one answer here, it's your favorite, your favorite Bill Paxton performance. I've got a there's quite a few of them, but I gotta go with the easy answer. I got it with Private Hudson, I have. There's no wrong answer here there honestly, as we've been doing this all month long. Yeah, I know we heard. We already heard from Amber, we heard from Dayton Johnson from the docum based seventy seven podcast. There are no wrong answers. And you know we've we've discussed a film by Bill Paxton for the past two weeks, you know, covering the films he directed. This week, let's talk about a film starring Bill Paxton, Mike Binder's nineteen ninety three comedic camp drama Indian Summer. Hello. I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm David.

1:14 Burns, and I'm Amber Lewis. And this is a film by podcast Uh, Dave. I thought we were gonna be alone, but uh, wandering over from the girls Cabin, Amber Lewis and what the reason is here? I'm excited for this, guys. I'm you know, it's been a while since the three of us, uh, and we're together on the so yeah, we were roaming. Around in England the last time. I believe. Yes, go back to young Sherlock Holmes, go back and check that episode out. Yep, Amber, Uh, I gotta shout you out uh again. Excellent job. Recently we did we did our first episode on Patreon, a little little fun series We're calling staff Picks and Uh, a little little video to you know, we got to know Amber Lewis a little bit better. You had five recommendations, five good recommendations, by the way, So listeners, if you have not checked that out, that is actually a free episode on our Patreon.

2:12 All you need is a an email address to sign up and then you can you can check this out. So she's not alone though, Dave, you and Scott a little bit of a revival series happening. What's What's what are you guys up to? On Patreon? A film at fifty I'd led the first season. Second season we celebrated movies that were the forty fifth anniversary from seventy eight and seventy nine, so we decided to go back to those celebrating fifty years. So that's movies from nineteen seventy five and. Let's see you you're you guys decided there's only. Ten right, there's the nighty ten. We're keeping it short this time. Yeah, you did what you did? You did? Okay, so you did? You did? Escape from which mountain?

2:56 We did? And the Holy Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Holy Grail. Mm hmm. That's it. We've got our next one's coming up soon at the end of the month, right, yep. It's usually with the last Saturday of the month that we release it. And we're not announcing what movies we're doing. We want everybody to be surprised on what we want. I want to know now, though, I'm sorry, you're not gonna find out. So you get it. You're gonna do Jaws, right, you gotta do. I don't know, are we maybe Rocky Horror Picture Show? Maybe? Who knows? All right? The good films in seventy five, we'll see. I'm I'm looking forward to it. I really am good deal. Let's talk but a few facts and a quote from one Bill Paxton and the third third episode this month, so I'm running out of Bill Paxton trivia.

3:47 We're gonna do quite well in the listener. Oh yeah, I could. I'm ready to write a book about Bills Bill. His friends and co stars nicknamed him Wild Bill due to his over the top sense of humor and his love for elaborate pranks, which, knowing that, makes me feel like he was He's absolutely right for a movie like Indian Summer. Would you agree? Oh? Yeah? Well, Paxton was no stranger to music videos, as we have discussed in our last two episodes. Keeping his music video appearances going, Limp Biscuit fans will remember that he played the sheriff in their two thousand and three music video Eat You Alive, which also starred Thora Birch and just happens to be one of my favorite Limp Biscuit songs.

4:40 The look on Amber's face tells me she is not a fan of lip Biscuit. I probably could not pick this song out of a lineup, so I'm gonna have to look it up and give it a chance. I could not name one Limp Biscuit song I don't. Okay, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna just preface this by before you go looking it up. I'm gonna give you a heads up here. I I will tell you that this might be one of their more offensive. Uh songs as far as the lyrics go and the video. You I don't know how, I don't know if you'll you'll care for this much Amber, but I would definitely look forward to hearing your your thoughts on it.

5:25 I have a feeling I'll be texting you in all caps later. Yeah, it's coming, it's coming. Yeah. Thora Birch stars in the video and uh and Bill Paxton playing the sheriff. So very cool. Can we talk for a second though about the Bill Paxton rolls? We almost had? Sure, There's a lot of them, but I'm just gonna focus on a few. They would include the lead role of Robert Langdon in the Da Vinci Code. He actually turned this down for you remember that Showtime series he did called Big Love. Yes, he turns down Da Vinci Code, which means Tom Hanks gets it and in turn, Tom Hanks ends up executive producing Big Love. How's that for? Yeah?

6:12 That was that appropriate choice? Yeah, I agree, Doctor Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, he was up for this. Ooh that might have been fun, right. It's hard not to see Jeff Goldbloom it was, you know, but it's again it's a win win because Goldbloom gets Jurassic Park in ninety three, so Paxton does Indian Summer, so I'm happy about that. The lead in Dark Man, so he he auditions for this. He's feeling pretty good about it, calls up his his close friend Liam Neeson to tell him about the audition. Neson goes after it gets it. This kind of pisses Bill Paxton off and they don't talk for months.

7:01 So that's kind of harsh. But it's kind of harsh. That's low man. Wow, come on, come on, Nisan do better. But we just talked about it over on Docking Bay and that movie. Slaps, so it does. I can't say that it didn't turn out the way it was supposed to. Yeah. Lastly, following Weird Science, John Hughes asks him to play the garage attendant in Ferris Peeler's Day Off. Paxton tells him no because he thinks the role is too small, and he later admitted regretting that decision because it was the last time John Hughes ever offered him a role. Mhm, he's right, though, I mean, the the garage attendant that steals the car. It's a funny role, but it's it's it's.

7:46 Yeah, but he still wasn't like really anybody. That no, Yeah, yeah, I mean he wasn't big, but and it's a very members of body, right, I mean, but it's a very. Memorable scene too from Ferris Bueler. Even if he was in it, you would know he was in it. And I told you I couldn't watch him forever because because of weird science. So describe my abusive brother. But you're like, hey, car thief, that that's Joy's funny. I would like. Speaking about romantic roles, Paxton had this to say, my biggest disappointment is not getting to do the romantic roles I always dreamed of. But I've had a pretty good career and you know what, we're christ for the mill out here, and if I quit doing this, there's ten guys ready to take my place. Amber question for you because I'm thinking about Bill Paxton and given that quote, there isn't a lot of Bill Paxton romantic roles out there, and you could even argue maybe Indian Summer is one of the few. What why is that is he? You know?

9:02 I think because he's always like a very big character. Yeah, and the male lead in a rom com is usually an everyman. Okay, so you. Can project onto him and he doesn't fit, you know, in that box. So what you do is you end up falling in love with this huge character that he's created, like in Twister. You know, he's adorable. You want them to do together. That is a rom com with you know, tornadoes. The summer tornadoes, Okay. Going through like marriage count slaying on that hell and everything like and brow.

9:46 I'm gonna get off topic here, but if you're running away with with one Bill Paxton, are you running away with with the Extreme? From from Twister? Simon? I don't know. I love Silence. Yeah, he's a asshole. Yeah, he's like nothing without his lies. So yeah, I would definitely choose Bill the Extreme. Okay, you don't want to have like a you don't have like a you know, hit a foreign world with Hudson. Maybe have a good time with Hudson. Okay, No, he's a pain in the ass. Back Like, pull yourself together, dude.

10:27 Oh man, Dave, we are talking about Indian Summer, a beloved film. I gotta believe that a lot of people though maybe don't remember this one. Maybe you haven't seen it. For those that need a refresher, Could you give us a quick synopsis about Indian summer? Come on, Jeff, you're not actually going to make us take a swimming test, are you? You know the rules? Camp Tomaca with a wonderful place for kids to go to summer camp, a place to enjoy the wilderness, the lake and make some amazing friends. That is exactly how it was for this group, who now find themselves returning to the camp as adults for a well deserved union.

11:07 For we Kendo. Our old friendships evoke wonderful memories that bring a flood of emotions back. But also see Uncle Lou, the man who has ran the camp for forty three years. Their lives were changed when they were kids visiting the camp. In just like the past, they will find themselves as adults experiencing that feeling all over again. This movie has been described by critics as Saint Elmo's Fire meets meat Balls Amber. How close to the mark is that? Is that pretty on the money? I mean, yeah, that's it's not bad. It's a pretty good comparison. I did anybody else like me? As an old old lady, I had to watch this three times because the first time and a half that I watched it.

11:50 I just was watching them, going, your babies, What do you have to be existential about? You have like no problems, Like you aren't old enough to have have like a midlife crisis. What is going on? Well there was They're like in their late thirties right in this movie, and then like the twentieth anniversary of their time at camp. I thought, well, That's what's funny to me is that I looked it up and all of the men are age appropriate. They're all like thirty eight when they filmed the movie. All the women are ten years younger. Hmm, well yeah, but we'll get to We'll get to them before we jump into it. Though. I gotta I gotta address something, especially with you, David, What is happening with the color grading during like the first six minutes of this movie. So I cause I immediately thought something was wrong with my TV.

12:42 So I did two it first, and then I realized what they were doing. So what I feel they were the director was trying to get across was the fact that when you're at camp, everything's colorful, joyful, exciting, yeah, and then when you go to the real world, everything's drained of color. And boring and just you know, so when they come back to camp, the color comes right back as they go to Yeah, that's the way I see it anyway. I get what he's doing. It's it's kind of like a Wizard of Ouz thing. I totally get that. But the problem I have with it is we open the movie in that glorious color and it's like nineteen seventy two, and then we it's I don't know, it's like it just a a bluish, a pale, bluish, grayish look to the film, and I immediately think something's wrong with my TV because it goes on for so long. And then like you're right, they come back to camp and as they're they're the boat's pulling up, the color pops again.

13:37 And Brian, I was a little aggravated with it. Oh, I hated it. I thought it was such an okay And I also thought it was weird that they did like the weird Schindler's List thing where like you could see red, yeah, we could see any other colors. I'm like, what what does that even mean? So yeah, I was just like, why are you doing. That, Dave? You're you're the director here, what have been what it made more sense for him to just go straight up black and white or Earth Store or what for the adult life, the adult life, you know, like the city life. I guess we call it it just it was. It was the color was off, but it was it was subtle enough that you it just makes you wonder, like, what's what's something happened? Did I get a bad copy of the movie? Like if I bought this and that happened, I would be I'd be running back to Best Buy to turn it to, you know, for a refund, and like, yeah, this one's defective, I want another one. I just I don't know. I didn't like it.

14:34 I I like the decision with the director was pulling off there. Maybe he could have chosen a different route to go with the faded colors. But I liked it because it it had that that vibe to it that you know, you're coming back to being a kid again at a place that you had such wonderful memories that the color comes back. I like that. I thought it was a great director decision. All right, Well, I would I would enjoy I'd like to enjoy arguing with you more about this off Mike, So let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about this casting crew. Seriously don't like it. Welcome back. We are discussing a film starring Bill Paxton nineteen ninety three's Indian Summer. So here's the thing we've got.

15:20 It's like what eight people that go back to camp? David was to give it a little synopsis. I don't really I really don't want to get in the weeds with this entire cast. There's three people I really want to talk about, but I do want to be fair and shout everyone out. So if you guys, if you have anyone that you really want to talk about, you know, just jump in here. But let's start off with Bill Paxton. He's playing Jack Belston. I immediately am happy seeing him for two reasons. One because he's Bill Paxton and two is it me or does he look like Roddy Piper and they live. Hair. I'm telling you, he's got the hair. He's got the exact same leather jacket, he's got that drifter look. You just assumed that, Hey, this is if Roddy Piper just stopped working out for a couple months. He looks like Bill Paxton in Indian Summer.

16:16 I can see it now. I can't be alone, right, I got out here not alone. But I didn't put that together when I first watched it. Now I do. Amber what'd you think of Bill Paxton in this movie? Is this one of his better performances? I mean, I just thought he was adorable. I really liked his character. I liked his interaction with Alan Arkin. I thought they were really good together. And I liked him being kind of, you know what, he plays like that kind of outlier guy. He's lovable in this though, he really does, you know. And to be honest, if all the characters that we have in this, all the connections we have in this, him and Uncle Lew's relationship was the best of the whole movie. Yes, it really was. Okay, I'm glad we're all on the same page.

17:00 Reading to me was like everything, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, like I said, I don't want to talk about everyone in the cast in detail, but this is this is this is a movie between Bill Paxson and Alan Arkin. As far as I'm concerned, it's it's Jack and Uncle loo that it's their story. But he's just he's just a lovable schlub in this, and even when he's just getting just beat down by Diane Lane, your your heart's breaking for him, but at the same time, you're kind of laughing because she's like, I'm not attracted to you. I don't find you. You know, you're not a good looking guy. He's like, yeah, okay, sure, I'll just stay over here. You know, why'd you try? And gives me I don't know, It's just.

17:44 Like, am I reading too much into it? I felt like there was a whole thing because he got kicked out, Like he's the only one as an adult that's like a schlub, Like he doesn't have the greatest job. He's kind of itinerant, and hey, it's like you took a curve. He's the You're right, he's the only one that didn't end up successful in life. But in the end he is. But in the yeah, which is which is what? Which is what? You're onto something there, because when he gets kicked out of camp, it's like his life just becomes shambles. But when he comes back to the camp and fixes what he did wrong, everything gets corrected. So I like that. I didn't think about that.

18:27 Amber good cat, Holy ship, did you just make me see the movie in a whole new light. Thin did. This? This epiphany brought to you by the voice of Freezing Amber Lewis h Let's talk about Alan Arkin. He's playing Unca Lou Handler, and he's he's actually playing the real guy. The actual founder of Camp Tamaqua was Lou Handler. He's actually wearing some of Lou's, the real loose clothes in this movie. I love Alan Arca and everything Dave tell me about Uncle Loo. Well, he does such a wonderful job as Uncle Lou.

19:07 You gotta love him. I mean, he he's got a passion for this place and he wants to keep it going, but realizes that, you know, not a lot of kids are coming anymore, and it's pretty much this is it, which is another reason why he's brought everybody back for this reunion. This is it. You know, he's not gonna do it anymore. He's closing the camp. But he is just that the guy that you just love to be around, a guy that runs a camp like that, you want to hang out with him and be a part of that, at least in my opinion. Granted, there's a little bit of history with him that we learn we're gonna get to it. Yeah, and you're kind of like, really, Uncle Lou, that's where we're going with this. But he does apologize for that later on in the end.

19:48 We'll get to that scene. But it it makes him a human being, right, He's fallible, right he is, Yeah, because he's we love Uncle loom But like anybody there's people have history, they have things they've they've got mistakes they've made and that they've tried to rectify. And I'll tell you one thing I really love about Alan Arkin in this movie Amber. He is walking such an amazingly fine line between father figure and like old friend, best friend, right, because he was the father figure to him when they're ten and twelve and now he's you know, they're adults, so he's he can he can share a different side of his personality, his life, but he's still being he's still Uncle Looo. Aren't you loving the what he's doing here? Well?

20:40 Yes? And I'm also I love that it never falls into that like gruff, grumpy old man, like why would this guy be running a camp kind of character. He is always you can tell he loves being around kids and giving him this summer camp experience and teaching him and guiding them, and he sees the importance of what that experience is and what he can bring to it. So I just loved that character. That wasn't just you know, growley and grumpy. And and it wasn't over the top. It was perfect. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I believed him. I believe he like I know it's Alan Ark and I'm looking at that, but I believe that he's actually Lou Handler.

21:27 Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. One other person I really want to talk about a little more in detail here because it's such a fun performance. I know where you're going with Sam Raymie yep, one of our favorite directors is playing Lou's assistant, Stick Coder. I spent the whole first watch going is that same Raby? No? Well, he's good. He's the director, isn't he. Yeah, he's a childhood friend of Mike Binders. Yeah. So the question I have for you guys, and granted, we love Sam Raimi. We've we've covered him, we did a simple we did a simple plan in our first season.

22:09 We've dave you and I have met him. He is a delightful man and he is so friendly, great guy to talk with. But my question to you is did we miss out on Sam Raimi being a comedic talent throughout the nineties and beyond because he's doing like this this Carl Speckler Caddyshack thing, but he's also like blending a little bit of Buster Keaton, you know, because it's like a silent performance. Yep. And he is absolutely hilarious with his physical, physical comedy. Like I kind of feel like we're missing out on this aspect of Sam Ramy Dave. There's also times I felt like he was John Ritter from Three's Company. Oh gosh, yeah, all that's so good.

22:50 The way he was performing some of the scenes, especially the scenes where he was dropping the luggage in the water and he's trying to get the boat and he's trying to get the luggage. I swore that was John Ritter. It's what it fell like to me. That's that's the vibe I got. Amber. I'm gonna ask you if you if we got more of Sam Raimi the comedic genius in movies over the last thirty years, but it meant that we lose half of his filmography. Oh no, do is it worth it? No? Okay, okay, I'm just throwing it out there. It would have been. Funny as like like a drop in cameo to all his movies, like Bruce Campbell always shows up. He could be doing some deufest thing in the background that would have been funny.

23:34 I definitely, you know, because you know, I saw that, we all saw this when it first came out. But on this revisit, I'm asking myself that same question, like how come we didn't get Sam Raimi doing fun cameos in his own movies because we see that, you know, with directors Jeff. I hope we get another opportunity to meet Sam because I'd forgotten about his performance in this until I rewatched it for this podcast. I really would like to ask him about his care I think you. Would love to be asked about this movie. I think he would be so excited. Yeah, absolutely, because he gets nothing but Spider Man question loud, you know if you asked him. And I wish I had known to ask him this because when we were in that question and panel, we got a panel everyone's asking Spider Man. I would love to ask him about Stick God. I wish I would ever remember that.

24:23 Yeah, well, we'll get another chance. We'll see him again, I know, we will. He's big on Lexington. I think you know when we go to lexiconso we'll be looking out for him. All right, let's talk. I'm gonna I'm gonna open this up because, like I said, it's it's a who's who of nineties talent. So we've got Diane Lane playing Beth Warden, we got Elizabeth Perkins playing Jennifer Morton, Kevin Pollack as Brad Berman, King of the Shreks, Julie Warner as Kelly Burman, Vincent Spano as Matt Burman, and uh, let's say we got Matt cra Jamie Ross. Dave no stranger to camp. He played a c I T in the nineteen seventy nine Bill Murray classic Meatballs. Did he know? Yeah, shout out to a film at forty five. You guys covered meatballs in your second season.

25:12 I think we absolutely did. Yep. Yeah, listeners, go back and check that one out. That was the first episode of yours that I listened to. That. It's a great movie. Yeah, Dave, you and Scott did such a great job. Amber continued to listen to the show and joined the cast. Here she's joined the team. So that's off to you. That. Listeners, that's that's just how good the Meatballs episode is. Go back and check that out. We've got the young and adorable Kimberly Williams playing Gwynn Doherty. This was This was like a year or two after her feature film debut and followed The Bride. So listen again, there's a lot of talent here, anyone you guys specifically want to want to talk about, Like as far as the performances go.

25:56 We don't forget done. Land had a second character in this. Oh yeah, and she played like to or she played clear effort the older woman when they're twelve at that cabin. Yah. I just thought that was interesting that they did that. Kind of weird now like it was because like we get that look at it. I'm like, wait, are we doing some kind of is this like is he warning her about her future? Is this all fixed to it again? Mike Binder making some weird choices, not just with the color grading, but with just get an old waity to play the play the old woman? Yeah, you know what does she call it sick that day? Does she not make it the bus to the camp? Hey, Dianea, you we pack on some makeup and make you just look old.

26:37 Well, for my money, like, Diane Lane is a huge part of this movie for me because I absolutely love and adore her work, and I feel like, you know, all due respect to the other actors, like she and Alan Arkin are on another level. Yes, So you're watching like truth espians in a movie with like see Lesters. Well, okay, that's fair because well, she's got she has a little bit more meat on the bone as far as her role is concerned, because she's she's pretty much the only one that's coming back with a little bit of trauma, right, you know, she's her character, she's she's recently lost her husband. She's trying to find her way in life without him. So I totally get that, yeah, and I don't I definitely don't want to sell her performance short because I love Diane Lane.

27:25 She's she's amazing and she's. Yeah, and I just I love that. I'm am I wrong in assuming that maybe there was something between her and Bill Paxton, like when there are kids at camp and that never happened, And now, like you know, for me. Like so much comes back to him getting kicked out, and I wonder if it was, like you know, because they were just at the age where you're just starting to notice boys and girls. And she she was, you know, kind of the athletic, tomboyish kind of one. And yeah, maybe she was just kind of starting to go, you know, he's kind of cute and then he was gone. Maybe maybe they had planned a dirty dog. There sneak out the first kiss, and you know.

28:10 He gets kicked out, so. She's left high and dry. I don't know, that's a good point, very good point, David. Anyone you want to, you want to, you want to point out anyone? Now, the vison was me was Diane Lane. I just thought she was phenomenal in this Yeah we're word apart from everybody else. So I grew with Amber on that one. I will say it was fun to see a young Kevin Pollack. It was you know, I never appreciated him until I saw him in Missus Masel recently, and that performance is so good that it made me like appreciate his other performances more interesting. He well, he usually plays like the everyman, the sidekick, the side character. Uh. I don't know, it'd be like I like, I always liked him in usual Suspects because it was like the one shot he had it playing like a tough guy.

29:03 Like him, because I felt like, what are you doing here? What? Really, you're not a criminal, You're just like you, like the adorable Kevin pill like the old men, A few good men. Yeah, the safe the safe Pollock is that you like, give well, give him the goatee in the ball cap and let him be a little bit of a bad guy. And I'm with him usual suspects. Let's talk a little bit about the background of this film. Not a lot diving into this movie. There's not a whole lot, but we can't say this. It's written and directed by Mike Binder. It's based on the actual Camp Tamaqua in Ontario, Canada, which he went to for ten straight summers as a child. So I'm I'm going to assume that it's a little autobiographical for him and maybe he's Jack. Maybe. I mean, we have to believe they didn't get kicked out, But you don't go to camp ten straight years. I mean think about it, like what, let's say he's like eight, first time he goes to camp, like he's a he's a counselor in training. By the time he's leaving this place, right right. I want to talk about shreks, and I'm not talking about the Mike Myers ogre. This is this is another word for a camp gag or our summer camp trick. So Amber, I know we were talking off Mike. You you mentioned like you had been to camp one or two times, Dave, you and I went to the same We did summer

30:35 camp at different times, obviously, but uh, shout out to Woodland Alters, YEP, which I wonder. I wonder if it's still running. I wonder if there's like an Uncle Lou there that's still still keeping it going. I know it's still there, but I don't know how what if it's running or not? For a guy where in Ohio? Yeah? Yeah, is it Adams County? Adams can County, I believe is where. Yeah. Shout out to the Adams County listeners if we have any. I went to Camp Camel Guard in. Hamilton, Camp Camel Guard. So let's talk shreks. Amber. Let's start with you. Any were you were you Were you the one pulling the shreks or were you the one being shreked? Do you remember any specific shreks?

31:23 Well, I didn't go all summer. I did like a couple overnights here and there. And I do remember I am not a practical joke person. I hate them and despise them, but I'm also as a kid, I was a follower. So we all the girls got together and we stole the boys shoes and tied them in a trade. Nice and were you caught? No, no, you gotta wait. Well no, here's the thing, Like the counselor that was in our cabin like led the raids. So it was like, you're only here for you know, two days and an overnight, so you got to make the most of your camp experience. So you get you get the Bill Murray Meatballs counselor who wants you to misbehave and have fun.

32:08 Yes, she was like seventeen. She was the coolest person you'd ever met. And she took all of us twelve year olds out to raid the boy's shoes. Okay, Dave camp will an altars. Any Shreks that you you can you can think of that you you either saw or participated in. So one of them was on the wrong end of a Shrek. Yeah, he's Kevin Pollock. The classic shaving cream in the hand when you're Yeah, the tickle of the nose you smack your face. Yeah. I was on the wrong end of that one as a kid. Now, Jeff, I'm curious, since we both went to the same camp, I wonder if they did the same things to you as they did to us. So they kind of did a group threk where they blindfolded you.

32:57 Did they blindfold you? I remember a blindfold Yeah? Yeah, yeah, and they like they like handed around food items, but you didn't know they were food. Yep. They were telling you it was like body parts, like org and stuff like that, and it was like the most disgusting thing in the world, but you did. But it really wasn't because it was like spaghetti. It was simple things from food, but you couldn't see what it was. All you could do is feel it, like hair, A couple. Olive Yeah, you put some olives in your hand. It's like, oh, these are the eyeballs out of a dead animal we found. Yeah, I remember that. I'll tell you some other ones. I remember it because it and it's funny because one of the reasons I love this movie so much is because some of the shreks that they pull off in the movie are stuff that I'd seen and maybe participated in at Woodland Altars. So I can tell you you're like, yeah, it's been long enough. We definitely did the toothpaste under the sheets. You know, you're going to camp so and you're you're eleven, you don't really care about brushing your teeth.

33:59 So that tube of toothpaste that mom packed for you, it was in everyone's it was in everyone's beds. Uh. We did the the hand in the warm water. We tried it, but it never worked. So I don't know where that started, Like why you why? What? Where? You know who came up with that first? To think like, oh, you put their hand in warm water and it makes them. Makes the oldest urban legend story that older brothers passed to younger brothers. It's got to be something. Uh. And then I will tell you, Uh, there was a raid, a night raid on the girl's cabin and we got we got caught, and we got in trouble. Now, Dave, I don't know if you remember punishments. So the punishment that me and several others received, we had a choice. We could either have KP duty for the next two days or you remember that big room, Dave, like that, like when you first got the camp that that giant like meeting room. Okay, So the other option was you could go stand in that room by yourself in the dark. You had to count from one to one thousand, and when you got to one thousand, you could go back to bed.

35:08 There is no way I would clean toilets for the rest. Of my life. We all took. We all took the stand in the dark by yourself count. Yeah. I have another question for you, Jeff, I wonder if they did this to your group too. Do you remember going out in the fourth at middle of the night as the night hike, the night hike the night they would stop you and then they would go way further down the trail. Yeah, and then you have to walk by yourself and pitch black in the force until you found them amber. This was think about We're ten years old and this is an absolute Friday the thirteenth scenario. It was. It was to build you know, I get it though. It was to build confidence.

35:52 Make it from the campfire to the cabin because they told us a scary story at the campfire and we got attack. Yeah. The night hike was fun though, because like you're you're you're freaking out because like you're watching everyone, you're like and all you're seeing is like the group just get smaller and smaller because you're left behind and like there's one other there's a counsel going Okay, now it's your turn. And it was terrifying, but it was also awesome. It was you know, I was terrified. I remember to this day. I was freaking terrifying. What it did, it. What you had to go over the Strawberry bridge. Wasn't that what it was called? Yes? Yes, very strawberry patches there. Yep, yeah, very very scary, but very awesome. Uh, let's go back.

36:34 Let's let's I would love that love it. Got to look into the woodland order. There should be an adult camp, like you should be able to get to go to camp as an adult like that like this movie. I don't know why that doesn't exist. Someone needs to make that happen though. I agree. All right, Uh, let's talk about noteworthy scenes and uh, maybe the pivotal moment. What will what we think is the pivotal moment, So sneaking we've been talking about sneaking out, uh, otherwise known as the dirty Dog, the dirty Dog, they're just having fun. I loved what you know, clearly, like the one episode, the one scene there they're all high because like, uh was it? Is it Julie Warner that just cannot get away from that tub of peanut butter. Elizabeth Parker she's got like the spatula and she's just yeah, going at it talking about their favorite moments from camp and lou but uh love love that moment. Uh we talked about Amber. You're talking about scary stories around the campfire lose campfire poem the Cremation of Sam Magee by by Robert Servis. I love that scene. It's such a fun like he like that they got the fire, like the firelight licking his his face and you know, you just assume that he's gonna tell the legend of Jason Voorhes right there. But it's this creepy, super creepy poem about a.

37:54 Poem makes it scarier, it does. Yeah, well yeah, the way he kind of he just just his voice is Alan Arkins's voice is perfect, pitch perfect here because it's the sing song thing he does. Yes, because he's rhyming, it makes it scary and I don't know why that is, but it definitely does I want to talk about I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I think this is the pivotal moment Davey alluded to it the reveal of why Jack was kicked out of camp. Yeah, we learn a secret about Lou, and it's all about sending this boy Sam Grover home. Mm hmm. The first time you see this movie, you just love Uncle Lou. This scene breaks your heart. It almost seems out of character. But then you do realize after you learn he talks about it. Later on you get all your explanations and stuff like that, so then it kind of makes sense. But at first I was like, wow, it seems like got of character for Uncle Lou. But then it doesn't.

38:45 No, No, I mean he does do it. He's wrong, but he does it with a bit of grace, Like he gives them money and yeah, you know, he pays him his salary and everything. It's not like he just it's like, eh, too bad for you. Later Amber's is this just good? Is this good writing? Though? Where we get this reveal? This is why I got kicked out because I found out that Lou sends this kid home. He does this counsel in training shows up, you know, we're hearing Bill Paxton relate the story, so we don't have all the details. But the first time you you the first time you're watching this movie, you feel you feel a sense of betrayal with a well, it puts. You in Bill Paxton's position, especially as you know, an eleven twelve year old kid. They have a very innate, very strong, very black and white sense of right and wrong.

39:37 And the way that he is unable to approach Lou about it and has to lash out, you know, in this demonstrative way. It is a great understanding of kids, and I think of you know, adults too. You know, Uncle Lou is in a position he has to make us second decision and he did the wrong thing. He made a mistake, you know, it. Was So it's a different time, right, It's like what the sixties, fifties, you know, when we're knowing about the Uncle Loo flashback. It's a different time in the world. It's a it's a sad time in the world. And you know when you hear Uncle Lou own up to it, you kind of get the idea like, hey, he was he was trying to look out for this kid, trying to protect him, even though he was, he was wrong with how he chose to protect him. It's a I don't know it. I wrestle with my feelings towards Uncle Loo throughout the movie, you know, like I go back and forth on him.

40:39 But I think that's what they want you to do. Yeah, And I think that's why. I think that's what makes us the pivotal moment of the movie because this everything you know, Bill Paxson's motivations, Uncle Lou, you know Alan Arkins, his motivations, It all ties to this one moment in this movie and this one scene, this flashback you you see Lou dealing with Sam Grover. So, Amber, is is this a pivotal moment for you? Or is there something else? Well? And I find it interesting that Lou when he greets them, he refers to when they came to camp as like that was the golden era, yeah, and which says that after that moment and after he kicked Bill Patston out, nothing was ever the same.

41:25 M hm. This was the golden moment, This was the best summer ever, and then this event happened and it just kind of never had the same magic that it had before. So yeah, I think pivotal moment for. Sure, Dave, you can't argue with that. Yeah, okay, I completely agree with that. That's that is the perfect moment for this film. Might be this might be the first time since we've been doing the pivotal moment, Like I think we've been out of what a couple of seasons now, yeah, this might be the first time. It's like a cons general consensus, like yeah, that's right, all right, good, good deal. One more don't want to talk about. And I want to bring this one up for the very important reason of of just because.

42:10 I have a feeling I know what you're going to talk about that. I am I about to talk about topless canoeing. Yes, yeah, we are. This shot of those three guys on the dock her like, I was like, oh, it's. My boys, Kimberly Williams Now listen, it's it's tasteful. This is yeah, what is this PG thirteen? PG? I can't remember I remember. I don't even remember a lot of potty words. So not really. I mean, there's there's there's some pot smoking and some sexual endo stuff, but yeah, it's probably's probably PG. But you know, I'll tell you. Uh, Kimberly Williams.

42:50 Just just the bare back of Kimberly Williams. That's it is a nice scene and just the grins on these guys faces as she she pulls up. You know, she's been fighting with with with Jamie. You know, she's like, yeah, well he is a jerk. I was like, where is Annie from Father of the Bride? Like, what is this dormat girl that she's playing? And then she finds her. Yeah. I love the fact that her her way of getting even with her you know, shitty boyfriend is to just flaun it in front of the rest of the gime.

43:32 You know, he's been treating her like a barbie the whole time and just look pretty and okay. Well I love that he immediately becomes a child and he's like, Lou, tell her she's gonna go, and she's like, goes, Lou, No, she's you know. But even even in that moment where that's you could argue that might be an offensive gesture, you know, in front of some strangers, but I like that she's like apologetic about She's like, hey, I'm sorry, you know, but Jamie needs to learn not to overwhun his toys. And I think it's Elizabeth. Yeah, I like Elizabeth Parkins. She's like I like this girl. You know, definitely not the pivotal moment, but definitely worth worth mentioning.

44:20 Any Am there any other scenes that you you wanted to call out? Yes? I love the scene when Elizabeth Perkins and Vincent Spano are like, they sneak off to one of the cabins and you know, you can tell they were like kind of boyfriend girlfriend back in the day or whatever, and they're kind of being flirty but not really and Luke comes in and he used a gut shit here. It was so like such a classy way of getting them out of there before they did something stupid and you know, but funny at the same time. And I just loved that scene.

45:00 Am i am? I interrupting? No, okay, Yeah, the stension here, oh you can still smell it. I think just doing his best to just turn them both off. Yeah, he was really watching out for him. He didn't want to to make a mistake. Yeah, and you know that was Uncle Lou being Uncle Lou. He's watching out for him. So I like that scene, to be honest with you, I actually have that highlighted and I was going to talk about that Embercy, you beat me to it. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no no. It just shows you that it is exactly Yeah. I really I really like that scene just because of that mere fact from my uncle Lou. The other one that I appreciate, too, is just the simplicity of the moose. The kids really don't appreciate it there at the beginning, and then when they come back to the camp, they still kind of don't appreciate it. And then at the end, you know, when you get the two characters who are taking over the camp or sitting there watching the moose and do appreciate what's going on in front of them, just showing how much they understand at that point and that they're the ones that's going to take over. I like, that's that's a good book ending for it. See.

46:01 I struggled with that because I have a friend who is a dog musher, and they referred to moose as murder ponies. When you're in the Iditarod, they will attack your dog sled and kill your dogs and kill you and they are incredibly dangerous animals. So the whole time they're like looking in on and they're like ten feet away and people are inside. The photography is going like, oh, we can get some good pictures. Dave, use that long lens you take to the convention. I wouldn't want to get too close. I'll tell you another one more. I didn't have my list, but just the more we talk about this movie, I love the boxing. Yeah, I love I love that Who is it? Matt and Jamie are kind of having words and then lose, like, oh, grab the gloves, let's sell it in the ring. You know.

46:55 I love that idea of conflict resolution. It goes against like my entire but I liked it and it is good. Yeah, yeah, I think it's great. I really do. Uh let's take one last break and uh we'll come back. We'll start wrapping things up. All right. As we start to wrap things up, I want to put you both on the spot here. I want to start with Amber. Amber, you're sneaking out for a dirty dog with one of these guys. Uh, it is the choice Bill Paxton because he he's got that speedo where he's he's he's jamming out to his music and and and swimming and the girls are like, hey, he's looking good. Is it? Matt?

47:38 Is it is? It? Is it? The King of Shreks, Kevin Pollack. Who who you sneaking off with the Amber? I do love that scene where he dives in off the tower. So it would definitely be Bill Paxton. Bill Paxton in the speedo, right, Yes, Okay, he's got that hair, He's got that roddy piper hair. He's got that all right, he's artsy. You know you didn't even have to think about it. You just know. You're still It's a Han solo questionnaire. I gave you on you all right, Dave, the same question, only the decision is much more difficult because we're talking about Elizabeth Perkins and this is around the time she did Big and she is definitely a smoke show. Diane Lane. Dian Lane, who started life as a smoke show back with Like the Outsiders and and continues to be a stoke show.

48:32 A smoke show. Yeah, I know, yeah, like when we're old and gray, she will also still be a smoke show. I might have just tipped my hat on, tip my hand on. I'm picking here. Julie Warner, This is this is, this is this is doc Hollywood era Julie Warner, and then again topless Canoeing Kim Kimberly Williams. Dave, who you sneaking off with for a dirty Dog? Without question, it's got to be Beth. Come on, it's it's Diane Lane. You can't argue with that. Yeah, absolutely it is. I would Lane, Bill, Bill Paxton or died Lane. I'm not sure, you know. I gotta be honest, Dave. If if Elizabeth Perkins and Julie Warner are like, hey, come sneak off with us, or you can sneak off of Dylane, I'm still picked. I still pick a Dyn Lane.

49:21 Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, It's it's all right, Dave. We've been talking last couple episodes. Uh, Bill Paxton, not that anyone is unfamiliar with his, uh his body of work, but if someone saw Indian Summer and they said, hey, man, I really like that guy Bill Paxton, someone like Amber's, like, I really liked him in that Speedo? Can you give us anymore Bill Paxton? Dave, what three Bill Paxton movies would you suggest they watch outside of Indian Summer. I'm going to recommend Twister obviously, I'm going to recommend I'll follow thirteen obviously. Fred Hayes frets up and I am obviously going to recommend Aliens.

50:05 Dave Virtual High five. We have the same all right, but that's the exact same listening. I think one of my favorite moments, my favorite Bill Paxton moment and Apollo thirteen is he throws up mm hmm and then Tom Hanks is like, Hey, we're gonna we're gonna sit down, We're gonna shut down these systems. And then Jack and I will eat and he's like, hey, I'm hungry too. He just threw up, dude, space vomit. Okay, space vomit. I'm gonna point something out here because again, this is a Mike Binder film. Didn't you know he's done a lot of TV work, He's done some music videos, I think, Uh, but I do want to point out for the Mike Binder fans, uh two films to other films that he wrote and directed that I would recommend checking out. There's two thousand and Five's the Upside of Anger. You guys see that one.

51:01 Kevin Kevin Costner, Uh, Joan Joan Allen. Yeah. And then like a bunch of like the four the girls that play her daughters, they're all they're no you got you know their nineties girls. Whatever, Oh my gosh, but you know, Kevin Dave, you didn't see this one? No, I have not. Kevin Costner is okay. So Joe Allen, her husband just mysteriously disappears, and she's super pissed because she feels that she's been just abandoned. So she's raising the teenage girls. Meanwhile, her neighbor happens to be Kevin Costner, who is a former baseball player turned radio DJ. So basically he's you know, it's bull drum only he's retired, but you know, and it's there's this whole will they won't they? And you know, I don't want to spoil the movie for anyone hasn't seen it, but there's a reason why her husband is missing, and then that kind of throws a wrench in the potential romance. But good film, definitely work checking.

52:01 I thought I saw it, but I haven't. I'm gonna have to watch so. Yeah, me too. Che really really good Joe Allen performance, I gotta be honest. One of her better performances, I think. Two thousand and seven, he did a film called Rain Over Me with Adam Sandler. It's kind of like a post nine to eleven, dealing with trauma. Adam Sandler is not playing Adam Sandler. He's playing like this just tortured, shell shocked guy who's lost his family on September eleventh, and really good, really good performances. And I would I recommend those two movies if you like Mike Bender, Mike Binder's direction, definitely check those two out. Amber your recommendation. Where'd you watch Indian Summer?

52:45 I rented it on Prime? Okay, me too, Me too? Two times? Listen. It's one of my favorite Bill Paxson performances. I watched it on Amazon, but I'm definitely adding a physical copy to my collection because you never know when the streamers will decide not to stream what you want to watch, right, So I think this belongs on the shelf, right, yeah, Dave? I think so? Yeah. This is a fun double feature with meat balls. Great double feature choice. So you're going with the who is it? As? It a what's his name? That played? Jamie?

53:25 Was he? Matt Craven, Matt Matt Craven? Features? Was she? Was he? Wheels? Dave? I can't remember. I don't remember. I always I always think of him in Crimson Tide mm hmm. He was one of the insurgents with with Geene Hatwin's side. Oh really, Yeah, he's got he's got the great Uh, he's got that great line. When he's he's trying to convince Denzel on the Russians actually attacking, he's like, you don't put on a condum unless you're gonna watch. I'll watch out for our sponsors there easy. I won't complete the line. But he was saving a few good men too.

54:07 Yeah, he's at the beginning of a fore you good men. He's he's the guy that's wheeling and dealing with you for me. Yeah, they still do that. I don't think so die bad worth of a regnue. My client's moron. That's not against. Yeah, he's okay, so uh yeah, Matt the Matt Craven double feature. Dave, you want to are you doing the Matt Craven double feature? You got something? Sorry, I got it? He was hard, Yeah, Dave? Can I can? I can? I guess what your double feature is with the Indian Summer? Sure? Is it Friday? Maybe? Yes, that's not a wrong answer, and I think that's mine. It is.

54:55 That is the correct answer. Look, I would be that guy. But the whole time I'm watching Indian Summer, I'm like, why hasn't someone done a mash up on YouTube and made like a trailer or something with Jason. You changed the soundtrack just a little bit. This is a horror movie. Yeah, man, I'm working on this now. Yeah, Dave, let's do like a mash up. Put it up Patriot, Like, you just insert a couple Jason shots, you know, it would totally work there. And he just like peaks around the tree. Yeah, like he's tight shot on Uncle Loo And then you hear can you can you hear Alan Arkin? Like maybe he was Jason's dad. He's like, hey, Jason was my son and today's his birthday.

55:42 There's his birthday. We're onto something we are I like it. Listeners, what do you think of Mike Binder's nineteen ninety three film Indian Summer starring Bill Paxton? Have you seen it? Does it make you want to go back to camp? Like it does us? You can let us know on social media. You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a Film by a Podcast dot com for all of our episodes. Uh, there's even a link to Patreon there, so if you're like, hey, what's this Patreon thing about. Uh check it out because we actually have a lot of free episodes right amber. Yes, and we also stuff over the good stuff, the exclusive stuff that we we do just for the listeners on Patreon. If you're like, I don't know, sign up, do a We got like a seven day free trial. You just you get in there, you check it out. If you don't like it, you just you just turn it off no charge or for like the low low cost. I think it's like three bucks, you know, right, you know there's different tiers like you can you can be like the you know, be a big spender like some of the people, and you know, you get your own episodes, like you can tell us which which ones to do. We've got a couple that do that. But uh check it out and uh, you know I tell people like it, you know, dirty dog us. Just get in there, sign up up, download all thirty or forty whatever we got. The list is pretty big. Just Columbia houses. Get get in there, get them all down, let them get out. You know I won't I'll be mad. You know, you might stay, we don't know, but you'll be back. Well listen, I

57:16 know you two will be back. We got so much fun stuff planned, uh coming up in the month of June, July, August, like we're gonna we got it, awesome summer plan we do. We are right, We're did you guys realize we are closing in on episode four hundred? That's crazy? Oh my gosh. I'm not gonna reveal I'm not gonna reveal it, but there's something awesome happening on episode four hundred. We got we got something really cool planned for episode four hundred, So stick around for that, that's right, and stick around next week. Jason Colvin from the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast, we'll join us to wrap up Bill Paxton month. Uh, he's got some fun stuff planned for us. Amber Dave, I thank you. We got to do more of these where the three of us are together. I'm I'm not you know, I'm not hating on the rest of our team.

58:08 You know. I love Garrett Andrew, Wayne Scott, the whole crew. This is the Harry Potter trio right here. Yes, it's yeah, Sherlock Holmes trio. Right, okay, well listen, uh, thank you guys, and to all of you listening to the show. Following us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon, taking the free Patreon, and then downloading everything and getting right back out. We thank you, We thank you.