Peter Weir - Witness

0:00 A little word association for you. I'm going to give you an actor's name, and without thinking, I just shoot from the hip. I want you to give me the iconic character, or the iconic role, or the first role that comes to mind. Okay, there's no wrong there's no wrong answer. You know you know this actor, I promise you. Well, yeah, but okay, there's always the wrong answer. There's not, there's not. But I just I just want to see what you say, Okay, Harrison. Ford, Indiana Jones. But if you couldn't say Indiana Jones, what would you say? Even though I hate this movie? Richard Decker? You hate Blade Runner.

0:41 I don't like. Slimy Future, don't don't besmirch Blade Runner. But if you couldn't, if you couldn't say Deckard, what would you say? Han Solo? Okay? Okay, yeah, why not crying? But if you couldn't say wait, hold on? But if you couldn't say okay, But if you couldn't Hansul, you'd say Jack Ryan. Yeah. But if you couldn't say Jack Ryan, what would you say? I feel like I'm missing like a series. You find that man? Oh oh shoot? Richard Kimble, I was like, what is his name? Doctor or Richard Kimball. Okay, So I asked you for the iconic role associated with Harrison Ford. You gave me Indiana Jones, Han Solo, Deckard, Doctor, Richard Kimball, and Jack Ryan. I want to talk about a Harrison Ford character that I feel should be in the top five and yet somehow isn't. And I'm talking about Detective John Book. So, Amber, let's talk about a film by Peter Weir, his nineteen eighty five underrated crime thriller Witness.

1:49 You think we. Would be safe for Philadelphia? Hello, and welcome back. I'm Jeff Johnson, I'm Amber Lewis, and this is a film by podcast and but we're gonna talk about Harrison Ford today. We're gonna talk about Peter Weir today. These guys enjoyed working together so much on Witness that Ford immediately signed on to star in Weir's next project, The Mosquito Coast in nineteen eighty six.

2:37 I love that. I love it when people just click like that. Wouldn't it be wouldn't it be great if our listeners had the opportunity to listen to us discuss the Mosquito Coast as well? I know, it's too bad that we don't have that already, Tea. Come on, well we do in eighty six. Yeah, yeah, listen, it's right there on our patreon, Amber, I believe it was your first nineteen eighty six episode with us. Yeah, this was like your you know, your first day on the job. It's like, hey, we're doing We're doing the Mosquito Coast. Thank god, it was such a good movie. We I did not know what we were getting ourselves into, but with the Voice of Reason. But listeners, if you haven't listened to our Mosquito Coast episode on the Lost Episodes of nineteen eighty six on our Patreon, you got to go over there and check it out. Head to patreon dot com slash a film by podcast. You can sign up for a free trial. Amber. I tell people like, just get in there, download a bunch of stuff. Get out. Yeah, you know, Columbia Houses as it were. But you know what, if you like what you hear, just keep subscribing because there's a lot of content on our patreon now, a lot of exclusive stuff right.

3:56 Yes, for the Princes. Yeah, and it's so good. I know I have been looking forward to talking about this episode. I know you have been looking forward to this one. I love this movie so much. This celebrated its fortieth anniversary just a couple days ago. Oh god, so I. Well, you know, as old as you, as old as you think you might be. Just remember that Harrison Ford is a lot older. Well this is true. You know what. I just looking at this movie I figured out. I discovered that Lucas Haas is is my age. Oh really, I could have been a Witness with Kelly mcgillison Harrison Ford. I missed out. Yep, Well I might not.

4:43 Could have been your big breakout role. Could have been my big breakout role. Well I do want to mention something about his breakout role later, But let's let's talk about Peter Weir, because he was nominated for Best Director for this film, losing to Sidney Pollock, who had directed Out of Africa that season. I mean, it's a big, sweeping epic. What are you going to do? I'm gonna not watch it as much because it's not better than a Witness. But I digress. A couple of facts and maybe a quote. Peter Weir has directed three films nominated for Best Picture. Oscar Witness was one of them. Dead Poet Society, and Master and Commander The Far Side of the World, which it's hard to believe none of them won, you know.

5:31 I mean I could see them not winning Best Picture. But I feel like he should have gotten Best Director in there at some point for the trimmage of nothing else. I think so. Surprisingly, Peter Weir has a law degree from the University of Sydney, which is one of the more prestigious law schools in the world. It's always fun when you find out that an actor, actress, director has some degree in something. You are like, really, wait on. Your two talents coincide. We We've talked about directors and actors that have been doctors or been lawyers, and it's it's just wild up. You're in this movie a carpenter.

6:14 Yeah, a carpenter. Well, we'll talk about that for sure. Uh. You know, you mentioned it's it's hard to believe he hasn't won an Academy Award. In twenty twenty two, he did receive the Academy Honorary Award for Lifetime Achievement. How do you feel about those those oscars? I don't know. I feel like it kind of like participation. It's kind of like the Academy says, we missed the mark earlier on. So we're okay, sorry we didn't catch you twenty years ago when you were still working. Uh, here's here's one. You know. I don't know. I just don't know how I feel about them. You didn't spend the money that other studios spent to get their oscars.

6:56 So it's like it's like field day at school where you got you got, you know, participation ribbon. Yeah, I just come on, I don't know. I'm not taking anything away from him, but no. I'm glad that he got some recognition. So let's uh, let's hear from the man himself. You have a quote from Peter Weir. Well, I don't have a Peter Weird quote, but I have a quote about Peter were But I think it's too what a great nothing is. You are nothing if not a rule breaker? I mean all the time. Okay, you know what I If it's about Peter Weir, I assume it's about someone that worked with him. Uh, let's let's hear this. What do you got?

7:37 What you got for us? So the editor of the movie we're talking about witness Tom Noble. He was quoted as saying this movie was just about assembly. There really wasn't anything to do because it was shot so well that all I had to do was get the footage and put it together. It was like Mozart, like the first draft was perfect and I just had to piece it together. And it was the easiest job I ever had editing a movie. Now, that is some of the kindest words you could probably offer about a director on a film that you're working on. I would say, I. Like that, well, I just love how it speaks to Peter Weir's like vision before he even has done anything, like he's already kind of mapped it out.

8:28 I'm hoping that most of our audience listening has seen this film and maybe just need a refresher, maybe they want to go back after they listen to this episode. But in the chance that maybe someone hasn't seen this, can you give can you give our listeners a quick synopsis? Yeah? So, while traveling by train and stopping at a train station in Philadelphia and I'm ash Boy witnesses a murder in the train station bathroom. He is placed under Harrison Ford's protection as the detective investigating the crime, and then things escalate and harrison Ford finds himself having to seek protection in the Amish community.

9:19 Harrison Ford finds himself giving his classic angry point at someone in Yes, that's pretty much all the snops, so I need my. Son said that. When he does that, he's like he just immediately wants to say, I'm sorry. Yeah, I never want the angry, angry finger point from Harrison Ford. You're in trouble if you get that. Amber. I love the opening shot of the Amish coming up over the hillside. Clearly it's it's Rachel's husband's funeral. Yes, but just a beautiful just the cinematography here's really nice. You know, they come up and you can just you can just the first word that comes to mind is community, right.

10:04 Yes, because you're you're looking at this funeral and I never get that many people at my funeral like that we don't know there. You never know, you haven't died yet. There's like a hundred people there. Listen if he tells the whole story without a lot of exposition, which I hate, like you're just visually entering this world and you can completely tell what's going on and kind of everybody's relationship to each other. When when your time comes, I will I will talk to your son and I will say, listen, I just need a lot of people coming over a hillside. Just just let her look down and see that and put a smile on your mom's face. Beautiful greenfield.

10:45 There you go. I can't believe Paramount was initially not interested in this film due to that very thing, the rural setting of Pennsylvania in Lancaster County. Producers, you know, producers say don't worry, We've got Harrison Ford starring in this, and they still were kind of like, nah, we don't really want to know, like where in a pigeonhole it because it's not really a cop movie. It's not really a Western. It's you know, this very kind of unknown community. It's not a cop movie, even though it has cops, and it's definitely not a Western, but it does have a Western mentality. It's got it feels a little like high noon, it feels a little like yes, uh Shane.

11:31 In my opinion, you know, guy comes, Guy comes from you know, from out of nowhere. He's a stranger in a strange land kind of fault. Yeah, I don't know. I like that. I like that a lot of a lot of studios passed on this until Paramount finally gave in. And here's the thing, you know, it's it's underrated in the sense if you're discussing Harrison Ford films, like you know, I I during the cold open, I asked you to name five of his iconic roles, and you gave five of his iconic roles. But John Book, the detective from Witness, was not one of them. And I'm here to say I had the same list. But I feel like John Books should be in that top five. And maybe we talk about this today and maybe we change, you know, a couple of listeners' minds, maybe we change your own minds, because watching this again, I'm like, man, I could have seen Book in like another two or three movies you see, Yeah, And I.

12:23 Think it's it's a better movie and a better performance than the Fugitive. Fugure is more. Fun, Yeah, but this. Is definitely a better performance and a better character. We At the fifty eighth Academy Awards, this film was nominated for eight Oscars Best Picture, which we said, you know, out of Africa one. Ford was nominated for Best Actor. This is the only time he's been nominated for an Academy Award. He loses to William Hurt for a Kiss of the Spider Woman. I'd have to go back and watch that one specifically for Hurt's performance.

13:06 But like Rold, Julia's right there. I know, and you know, uh, I like I like the uh. I like the fact that both these guys competing it at one point and they both end up playing the same character. Because as as many many of us already know, uh, just this uh recently a couple of days ago, you know, Captain America Brave New World is out Harrison Ford playing Thunderbolts Ross, which initially was played by William Hurt for who knows how many films in the in the MCU, so kind of kind of dig that the movie did win, you know, those eight nominations. The movie did win for Best Original Screenplay and Best Editing, so it's also nominated for six Golden Globes, and the screenwriters, William Kelly and Earl W. Wallace won the Writers Guild of America Award for Best Original Screenplay and Amber I will tell you, I know a lot of people looked to uh like sid Field will tell us to look look at Chinatown on how to write a really good script? Heck, yeah, which I don't. I don't uh, I don't disagree with But a lot of people are talking about Witness now nowadays on how.

14:16 To write the economy. Yeah, just a tight neo noir thriller. Witness is now being looked at as this is how you do it. So can we talk a minute about the mesmerizing score of composer Maurice Alexis Jar What done? Thank you studying up with my friend? I need you correct me? Yes? What do you think of this? What do you think? What do you think of this? What do you think of this music? I was paying close attention to it. I watched this like three times this week, just because it's such a good movie, but to get ready for this episode. And the one thing that I noticed that I thought was interesting was it's very minimalist, but he uses like there's like synthesizer in there yep, which is interesting when you're on a farm.

15:11 I but it works. I was so excited to talk about how much I listen to this score and feel like I'm listening to the music from Blade Runner until you uh crash my world and we're like, I like Blade Runner. But I mean you've seen Blade Runner and you kind of I think it's a synthesizers. Honestly, it just feels like it feels like Vangelis, you know. Yes, or like it could also be like a hurdy gurdy. Y think it has that kind of ethereal or a theremy like just kind of one of those unusual instruments that gives you that different sound. But how it works with those like beautiful shots of just nature, Yeah, you know, a weak field or a barn raising or you know.

15:59 It's just that's amazing to me. Well, I'll tell you who always has an amazing opinion when we're talking about film scores, is our resident expert Wayne White. Did so, Wayne, if you would, sir, take it away and tell us a little bit about Maurice Alexis Jar. French composer Maurice Jar had been a favorite of mine for many years, ever since I first saw the film Enemy Mine and heard his brilliant score within. Jar had been composing music for the silver screen for decades, ever since the late fifties during his time with the French Cinema.

16:49 In the early sixties, producer Sam Spiegel discovered his work and invited him to score the upcoming film Lawrence of Arabia, which would win him his first Academy Award and see met him as a powerhouse of composing for Hollywood. For many years, Jar composed music for many huge films, with Doctor Schivago, Grand Prix, Dead Poets, Society, Taps, and The Terrain, naming just a few of the dozens of great scores he has created. He developed working relationships with directors John Frankenheimer, David Lean and John Houston, as well as working on the Year of Living Dangerously, directed by Peter Weir, which would lead him to his assignment for the nineteen eighty five film Witness. During the nineteen eighties, Maurice Jar was deep into what film historians call his synth phase. It was the time of synthesizers and computer generated sounds. The popular music charts was full of electro pop and synth pop bands taking advantage of the growth of technology, and many composers of the era would turn to this form of electronics, including greats like Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner.

18:00 Used ten musicians to create his score for Witness and organize them like a band, with each person performing a different keyboard or sampler, while Jar conducted them as if he was conducting a small orchestra. But many question his choice of using electronic instruments for this score. Witness is a straightforward crime thriller taking place in the Amish community. Surely a more traditional orchestral score would have fitted the film better well. Fans are divided on the answer to that question, But what isn't debated is that the score to Witness is an interesting novelty in Maurice Jar's career, a different style and sound to his countless other scores where modern technology encroaches and invades the more simplistic styles of a simpler lifestyle. You can be the judge. The highlight of the score for me would be the five minute Q building the Barn, which showcases Jar's talent of setting the perfect tone to enhance what's being shown on screen.

19:03 It's an inspiring cue, underscoring a key scene to the film where Book is invited to take part in the traditional Amish barn raising as a sign of the community's growing respect for him. Here, he takes the main theme and presents it in several different forms, ending with an incredibly rousing finale. Originally, director Peter Weir had used a temp track known as Cannon indeed by German composer Johan Patchebel over the scene. As with many directors, he fell in love with this piece and told Jar that he was planning on keeping it for the film. Jar took this as a challenge and studied the piece carefully and the way that Weir had edited to the visuals, and composed his own piece for the scene. During the performance of the cue with the musicians, Peter Weir walked in and heard it, shouted that's great, that's fabulous, and jars Q was used instead. Jar was nominated for both an Oscar and a Golden Globe for his score to Witness, losing only to the Magnificence score created by John Barryfort Out of Africa. On both occasions. He did win the British Film Award for Best Musical Score of nineteen eighty five, beating his own score for a Passage to India. Witness has only been released commercially just once. In nineteen eighty five, record label Very Sarah Band released his score on both LP and CD, with a very short selection of cues totaling thirty minutes. And eight tracks. It's a surprise and a shame that this score hasn't gotten the expanded or

20:35 complete treatment from any of the record labels over the years. There's still music to be heard, roughly twenty minutes of music that not on the original album, along with alternates and unused cues that have been reported to exist. Hopefully, one day Maurice Jar's score to Witness will finally be released again, remastered and complete, for his new fans of the music to enjoy and own. Until then, take look at the dozens of scores of Jars that have been made available and discover why so many film music fans call him a favorite. Well, there it is, Amber. I would expect nothing less from uh from Wayne's I Love I Love when more and more like listeners or listeners have been contacted us and more of Wayne, more of the music. So he's a busy man, you know, he's he's doing that Phaser set the stun serious for us on Wednesday. So yes, we get him when we can get him.

21:40 But Money just did the the Jerry Goldsmith Oh episode which, oh my gosh, so good? How fun was that I was? That was one of the situations where I was just loving the fact that I could listen to it because I wasn't on it under our buddy Chuck Bryan from the Cinematic Flashback podcast was a part of that one too, So him and David and Wayne, they did great. Let's take a break, Amber, and when we come back, we will start discussing this incredible cast. Welcome back. We are discussing Peter Weir's nineteen eighty five thriller Witness, starring Harrison Ford as Detective John book Amber. If you there's like some good behind the scenes stuff on the on the DVD and the Blu ray of this, and according to the director Peter Weir, Harrison Ford worked closely with the Philadelphia Police Department to prepare for the role learning procedures and according to director Peter Weir, he joined them on several police raids. Just put yourself in, you know, a situation where you're you're a bad guy, the police are breaking down your door and there's Harrison Ford with them.

22:54 Han Sola comes in. Andiana Jones comes in. Now, obviously they didn't give him a gun, so I just have to I have to assume that they broke down the door and he just jumped in and angrily pointed at him. Right, I'm sorry, he got me. You got me Harrison again. This is this is such an amazing performance. Peter Weir said of Harrison that he possesses a magnetic quality. He is capable of filling a room with his personality if he had been a plumber and came to fix your tap. He's a person you'd notice. We provoke each other. It's no cozy fireside chat. And you know, you read that and you think it almost sounds like they don't get along.

23:41 But I when I think about it, it's like, you know what, they provoke each other. They inspire each other, they push each other to do better work. And I think that's that's what he was meaning by that. But that's no cozy fireside chat. They're just they're not gonna they're not gonna phone it in right right. But the funny thing is what I love about Harrison for in this role is there is like a nerdiness to John Book, like this kind of little dorky thread that kind of runs through him as a person. He's not you know, Harsonford tends to play like superhuman heroes had Richard Kimball like they can do anything, even though it's just supposed to be a doctor and a say, analyst or whatever. But this guy is like very real and there's something so incredibly charming about that.

24:33 I agree. Kelly McGillis playing Rachel Lap. She had only done one film before this, nineteen eight three's Rubin, Rubin. Did you see that one? No? No one did. But that's the movie she had done before getting the part and Witness, And I say no one did see it because she was working in a coffee shop when she auditioned for this role, and it was one of her next shifts where she's greeted by Peter Weir and hair and Ford who come in and offer her the role. How about that for a day? Great story? Hey Kelly, you got another table? And then you look over and there there's There's there's Harrison Ford. You know. Of course, following Witness, she catapults to start them with her role as Charlie in Top Gun.

25:17 The following Ye, we were like halfway through this movie and Liam was like, wait a minute, is that the checker talk like he did not even put the chew together. She's so completely different. I I remember when I was a kid I had. I had the hots for for Charlie and top Gun. I wanted to be Maverick. Who didn't I mean? And then later I go back and watch what I had seen witness a bunch of times, and I was like, wait a minute, that's that's Charlie she's and then it's like, oh, that's Charlie. So yeah, yeah, I'll get to that later. Well, the way she embraces like the silence and the calm m hmm that Rachel has is just she's not to nose with Tom Cruise screaming in his face. She's like very you know, within herself. It's really a restrained performance.

26:07 Well it is, and it's the right performance because while Harrison Ford is off playing cops with the Philadelphia PDE, she went to go live with an Amish widow and her children to learn the speech cadence, observe the daily life the routines of an Amish widowed mother because she really wanted to nail it. I'm telling you, like, when you watch this now, the fact that she is an Amish blows my mind. She's that good. Yeah. The respect that they show for this community is really wonderful. Huh. You know, and it bothers me though, Like eight nominations for this movie and she's she's not in the conversation for for Best Actress. I don't get that. I don't get a woman.

26:50 I'm not surprised. Well, hold on, now, you can't be So what do you mean as a woman. I'm not it was best actress, Like there's there there were five other actresses that got nominated. I'm just saying. I know. I'm just saying, when you look at the movie and everyone that was acknowledged for their work in the movie. Yeah, fact that she was not okay. Of course it's not. It's not as flashy, it's not. She's very restrained and very quiet. You can't. You can't just make it like the fiftieth Academy Awards didn't have a Best Actress you know category. I mean, didn't Meryl Streep win? So, like, what are you gonna do? I don't know it does she always win?

27:32 Right? She's all right, We're moving on. I do like I do like the fact that, well, no, I shouldn't say. I like the fact that I find it interesting that that Kelly McGillis has a lot in common with the gentleman that played the Swordman and Raiders of the Lost Arc. Do you know about this? Oh wait, I think I know. I know how. I think I know how. You're gonna tie this all in? Okay, yeah, well, okay, So she has a prominent encounter with Ford at the end of this is ten ten pages of dialogue, passionate dialogue. He gets sick. So they just they just trashed it. They you said, we're not We're not doing that, you know what. I wondered though those stories are so similar, Like, I have no doubt he was sick on Raiders.

28:17 But yeah, dysentery. I almost wonder like in this if he was, like I do, not feeling well, maybe we should just look at each other because he knew would be better. And I want to cut ten pages. Of It's such it's such a good love story and the way it ends, it's not like they live happily a aeratare we know that? No? And I think so much, just the two of them. I think it's perfect the way it is. You know, you know who's not. I'm not even curious about what is on those I don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't care because it's not as. I don't think it's better than what we have. Yeah, exactly. You know who's not saying a whole lot is uh is Lucas haas as Rachel's son, Samuel. Now I want to point out two things about Samuel. First Off, the nod to Indiana Jones is absolutely awesome. Did you catch that?

29:09 So remember, so remember, and this was this was intentional at the beginning, when he witnesses the murder and Danny Glover is like picking their stall doors open, he jumps or he climbs into the last way and at the last possible second, his hat that has fallen off. He wipes his hat over, which is is straight out a temple of doom. And I love the fact that that they had the the wherewithal to pull that off. It was so cool. Lucas Hassei's his feature film w is two years earlier in a film called Testament. Have you heard of this movie? I've seen this movie. It's well, okay, okay. I thought I was gonna blow your mind, and clearly you're about to educate us. So let's talk about Testament for a second. All right. This is a because I'm like, what's Testament?

30:00 This is an example that I give my son when I say, like you wonder why I have anxiety? This is what I was watching when I was seven years old. This is this is yeah, this is this is a bugaboo for you. This is something that you don't care for listeners. The tagline to the film Testament says, it happened in an instant. The televisions went blank, the radios silent, The cities were gone, the future abandoned, and the only thing they have left to hold on to is the people they love. Nuclear War Amber hits America and the life of a suburban family is just completely scarred. It's all about this woman trying to keep her family together, right.

30:44 Yes, And it's them scavenging for can goods and making candles out of crayons, and her children slowly sicken and die and it's just gut wrenching. Kevin Kostner said that he has ever forgotten this film and the powerful influence it has on him, and that matters because this film stars a very young Kevin Costner, a super young Lucas Haas you Got, Uh you Got whom I think William Devane is in this like. Jane Alexander, Carrie she's so brilliant. We just talked about her and Kramer versus Kramer, and I want to I.

31:25 Want to do something out of you too. Uh. This was directed by uh Lynn Lynn Littman, and I gotta tell you first off, fun fact, Lyn Littman almost directed Witness. How about that? Oh that's funny. Well, I'm I'm I'm captivated by this movie. I want to see it. And you know, next month you're doing like, you know, thirty seven episodes of you know, because we're celebrating. Watch this movie again. I think we have to. I'll be working through my childhood trauma. Don't you want to celebrate Lynn Littman during Women's History Month? And we could, we could, We could talk about this movie. Right for sure.

32:06 All right, let's let's put on the calendar. I'll hear your your grid. A couple of cocktails off, Mike. Okay, there you go. All right, Well, let's get back to Witness. Alexander good Enough as David David as a Daniel I'm sorry. Daniel Hawkliner, noted Russian ballet dancer, best known for his roles in nineteen eighty six Is the Money Pit, where he was Max the Maniac one of my favorite. Uh you talk about composers, I could quote I could quote most of his lunch. The union forces me to allow you to go to lunch inspead it the way you play, you eat. Yeah, those of you with consciousness, match your talents, go stuff yourself. So I hope you choke. Awesome. And then obviously he's carl In die Hard. He's Hans Gruber's right hand man. Man. It's and it's funny because like he's such a nice guy in Witness.

33:11 You know, he's wonderful. Oh my god, he's Rachel's suitor. Like he's he's interested in Rachel. He wants to be with Rachel. I don't know what Amish customs are, you know, because well you see him. You see an Amish date. They're sitting on the porch on the swing. Heaven. Well, let me ask you that because. Because she does like the stretch. I'm around, but. I noticed, like she's wearing her bonnet, and I did a little bit of homework. Apparently when an Amish woman wears a bonnet, it shows that she is taken, she's married, she's yes, betrothed. H So you know, I didn't know if like again, like her husband died like two weeks ago ago, Like you can't just.

33:53 It's hard to tell the passage of time. I feel like more time passes in this movie than we realize. But yes, but he lives right next door. I mean yeah. She says he's like a son to Eli, her father in law. So kay, yeah, I mean Book is he's he's down for what forty eight hours with his gun shot wound where she's taking care of him. So the passage of time after that, you know, maybe you're right, but still like it's not like months have passed, like I don't know. Maybe maybe it's an like the long con. You know, he's I'm just gonna come over for lemonade. It's fine, Yeah, you know, would you would you? Oh my god, A picture and a.

34:34 Half let me tell you that the last scene when he's walking toward the farm and he just tips his hat for like I faint. He's so charming when he tells Book, he says, you're whole is better now, but then you could go home. Then you could go home. Yeah, like everything he does. He has such a small role, but oh my gosh, he's so charming. Well smaller still is uh Vigo Mortenson's role. He's playing uh, his little Yeah, he's playing his little brother Moses. This is his feature film debut, and he has zero lons of dialogue. You know, we just see him helping raise the bar. But it's like in does he I don't remember?

35:22 Yeah, Like at the funeral, he they tell the story about the selling of the horse, and he's like, he says some things, it's not really his story. But oh at the way when they're yeah, he does get to a little Yeah they're talking about the horse with the testicle problem or something. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right. I take that one, good ball. Yeah yeah, Well I love seeing these guys. Uh yeah, babyface Vigo Mortenson. Uh, just fun to watch. Can we talk about Danny Glover as Lieutenant James McAfee. Let me tell you about how between this movie and The Color Purple, I hated Danny Glover so much that when leitha Weapon came around, I.

36:05 Was like, oh, the hell with this guy, Like. It's to me like the whole movie to be convinced that he was not gonna turn out to be a villain. Danny Glover is in the stand in Witness The Color purple and Silverado all in nineteen eighty five. He is having a busy year, and you know, we haven't even seen what he can do. We definitely don't see what he does in this what he can do in this movie, because I feel like he's critically underused. Dare I say wasted in this film? You know what, though, I don't know. I think it's that. Economic use again, because he sets such an imposing figure that I feel like all he needs to do is walk in.

36:52 Okay, So you're you're saying like he can pull off the Boogeyman aspect, doesn't need a lot of scenes to. Like, especially his opening scene is intense. So then when you see him every other time, like when he shows up in the parking garage, your blood turns to ice. That's true, That's true. Yeah, it's funny because Peter Weir says that is the most violent scene he's ever put on film. He thinks he went way overboard with that. What is I mean the way he the way he I mean he's carving that guy's neck like it's a Christmas and. The way they have that jacket over his head like that's what it breaks me out. See that's the problem with men's restrooms. Like you're in a vulnerable area and you have your back turn to everybody.

37:36 That place is a travesty. I wouldn't have gone potty in there. Well, when you gotta go, you gotta go. Boys don't care, We don't Patty Lapone, as John's sister Elaine. I could not believe that was her. It's weird to see. I mean because it's been you know, it's been forty years, and I'm used to Patty Lapone like you know now on Broadway. On Broadway. Yeah, I'm not used to Petty LuPone in. With eighties haircut. You know what. I'm glad you said that because I didn't want what is it? Okay?

38:16 I know I did you look it up? Because I wanted to look up, like was she doing something on Broadway where she had to like cut her hair shirt for a wig? Amber. I didn't want to come across like some jerk. But I'm telling you right now, thank you, because you just recited my note word for word. It just says Amber dot dot dot what is happening with her hair? So now I feel redeemed. Yes, but yeah, it was. That horror show of nineteen. Eighty This wasn't like a this Okay, so this wasn't like a look for girls in eighty five, right. I don't know. I feel like one of the girls in flash Dance had a similar hairstyle. Sure as hell, what in Jennifer Bial's It was. Not Jennifer Bials.

38:57 Her hair looks like what's what's those like little what are they called spider plants? Like where it's just like, yeah, like somebody took like a straight razor and just hacked at it. Yeah, that's why I'm wondering, like I need to look up. I need to do more research. And asked Robert what was Patty doing in eighty five? What was Patty Lapone doing in nineteen eighty five? And like shave her head to put a wig on or something, because this is. You would have thought they could have downed a couple of bucks at this and put a wig on her. Let her, you know, yeah, let her be a little more enticing, you know, like we he shows up at her place with with Rachel and Samuel, and she's got she's like in the middle of a date, you know, she's like in her house, Coach, She's like I'm on a date and he's like, your kids are in the next room, like, what are you doing? Don't judge me?

39:46 Like I'm like, I'm not judging her, but I'll judge her for that haircut. I'll tell you that right now. Amber, There's one more person I want to talk about real quick before we move on to uh the making of this movie. If you if you don't mind, yeah, began a movie. You know. We we have the murder, right, we have we have Samuel witnessing the murder. Oh, I know where you're going on. So, oh you caught it? Okay, Okay, So John Book goes to the train station custodian and you know, this guy's like, it's not me. They're the one. You know, the kids over there. You want to you want to tell give give our listeners the name of this of this of this man who played the. Who gets two minutes with Harrison Ford. His name is Robert Earl Jones.

40:30 Okay, So, Scott and I a couple of weeks back, we were talking about uh, Devil in a Blue Dress, and we we mentioned the race films. So Robert Earl Jones, one of the first prominent black film stars, beginning his film career starring in Oscar My Show's nineteen thirty nine race film Lying Lips. He went on to work in films like Clint Eastwood's Hang Them High in nineteen sixty eight, The Sting in nineteen seventy three, Trading Place, This is Sleepway Camp in eighty three, The Cotton Club, which we did an episode on. In nineteen eighty four, I was a Francis four kpolo film. He was an accomplished star of Broadway and Amber. There's one more thing about this gentleman that is of note. Do you want to tell our listeners what that is?

41:19 He has a little baby boy named James. Yes, Darth Vader's dad. This is Darth Vader's father, Robert Earl Jones, the father of James Earl Jones. And once you know it, you can never unsee it. Like I turned the movie back on to look at his face and I was like, that's James Earl Jones. That's a whoa yeah. And their voices are even similar, Like I think James Earl Jones's voice is like deeper and more resonant, but they're similar. Yeah. I got excited because, like what I'm doing. When I'm looking at this filmography, I was like, Wow, I own like all the movies I just mentioned, I own them besides Cotton Club, but I've seen it. But I kind of like like, I gotta put hang them high on.

42:02 I gotta put sleep now. I got watch the Sting again. Got watch definitely gotta watch the Sing again. Yeah, Robert L. Jones, how about that? So let's talk about the background this movie, a little bit about the production. The story for Witness was originally a plot outline for the television series Gun Smoke. In nineteen fifty five, we mentioned the screenwriters William Kelly and Earl W. Wallace. They actually got their start working on gun Smoke, and the original story was about Marshall Dylon traveling to an Amish farm looking for a witness to a murder. I think there's a selection of our listeners that are like, wow, guns, and then there's another section that's like, what's gun smoke?

42:44 But he think they're not saying that. But all I can think of is bounty law from once amount of time in Hollywood. Yeah, well, you know sing like Leonardo DiCaprio's character, Hey, I. Look at the analytics. I know we have a lot of twenty somethings and thirty somethings, so maybe they're maybe they they loved Bounty Law with Leonardo DiCaprio. Now they're like, Eh, check out Gunsmoke. Check out gun Smoke. It was, it was, it was, It was fun. Does the you know the focus of the screenplay initially was exclusively you know, on Rachel, but Peter Weir's vision was more about a comparison of pacifism versus violence, which we get through John books character.

43:25 So Amber that leads me to the question, you've watched this probably a hundred times, you love this film. Do you find yourself watching through Rachel's eyes or do you feel yourself watching through John Book's eye? I am always watching through John Book's eyes, except for any scenes of violence, and then I guess I must be experiencing what Rachel and Samuel must be feeling because it's so horrible and it's so shocking and jarring when it happened, and you can see how strongly it affects them or how it affects the other Amish. You know that this is not their world. Even they don't have television, so it's not even like they see it on TV.

44:14 They never see this. So absolutely no actual Amish people featured in the cast or among the background roles, because, as the film portrays, they do not like being photographed. That's a real thing. They did, however, take an interest in the production. They were kind of curious, so, according to Peter where they were usually right out of camera range watching the filming, just to see what the English were up to. As we said, it was filmed on location in Pennsylvania and Lancaster County, but the National Committee for Amish Religious Freedom boycott of the film, citing concerns that the Amish communities would be overrun by tourists once filming was completed. And not really wrong, it did happen.

45:05 I mean, well, and you see how like those scenes when they go into the village, yeah, to the general store, Like the tourists are so vulgar. Oh, they're just they're rude, you know, they just you know, it's like it's like they're in an attraction. Well and even you know, I noticed when I was watching it earlier, when John first meets them, he takes them from the train station and they're going out to look for a suspect that might be in the area. Oh yeah, shows them no respect, Like he doesn't tell them where they're going, what they're doing. He just puts them in the car and starts driving. Like they go to the bad part of town. He just leaves in the back seat while they go in and rough up a suspect. Yeah yeah, but you know, the governor at the time kind of kind of as a as a means to make peace, he made the decision not to promote Amish film communities as future film sites.

45:58 And if you think about it, aside from Witness, are there that many Amish movies? Like I can't I really can't think of that many. You know that that they they got to cog in this world. So yeah, there's a handful. And you know there's plenty of arms like respect there. Yeah, privacy. So the film's original title was called Home, which is the Amish term for death. It was then changed to Home to Witness, which Paramount execs thankfully did not like and suggested a shorter final version, which was just Witness. Hey, I'm going to agree with the executives.

46:39 Get it right sometimes they do. I want to talk about some noteworthy scenes. I'm gonna try and limit it to less than six or seven. I'll try amber obviously the pivotal. Moment beautifully pick anything. Almost all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna gonna I'm gonna blitz these a little bit faster because I know I don't we don't want to do like a two hour episode. But let's start with Samuel iding McPhee at the police station. Again, no dialogue, no dialogue, it's all in their expression. The fear on Lucas Hass's face is it's believable. And the concern on Harrison Ford's face as he realizes this kid is shook, there's something wrong. No dialogue, but the score is superb in this moment. Love this scene. What do you think about this scene?

47:30 I love how from the beginning Harrison Ford is able to connect with this little boy. Yeah, and the connection that they have across this you know, police station is just amazing. And you know, and of course, like he's a little boy, he's going to be attracted to the trophy case because it's shiny, shiny, you know, and just the way it plays out, and Lucas Hawes is just so he's very relaxed and very natural in everything. He does. Those big, big brown eyes wow, and.

48:12 Just that simple pointing to the picture. Yep, And it's everything. He knows everything, Harrison Ford's John Book knows everything he needs to know in that. Oh, in that split second, he put the whole thing together. Next scene, which I I call this Gun of the hend Samuel finds Books gun. Now he's you know, he's been shot. He's back, he's he's hiding out on the farm. And Samuel finds his gun and Books. Immediate reaction is to yell at him, which startles little Lucas saus you know, but he has that teach it's a teachable moment. He's like, you know here, now you can you know, he takes the bullets out, he explains how dangerous is never touch a gun. Now you can touch it, you know, he puts in his hand. But that's the exact moment. Rachel walks in and is clearly visibly upset. Amber. You have been working for forty eight hours two heal a gunshot wound on Harrison Ford. And then you walk in and there's seven year old Liam holding a handgun. Are you are you gonna just lose your mind? Or you know?

49:24 What's that scene? Look like. I mean, I definitely would not have been as restrained as Rachel is. She's an homage woman. You know, amount of self control that she has because I mean, just the horror of a child holding a firearm and then you know, like you said, seeing the violence that it causes. And yeah, great moment though, because it leads to Eli teaching Samuel about the evils of guns according to how the Amish feel. And it's a little surprising because you know, he's kind of would you take a man's life? And and little little Lucas has He's like, yeah, a bad a bad man. How do you know the bad man?

50:08 He's like, I've seen him, and I was like, and You're like, you know what, he little Samuel's not wrong. He he knows what a bad man looks like, and he knows that the bad man can hurt him or his mom, and he's gonna do what he needs to do. So I like, I like, I love that scene, honestly do. Moving on and I'm gonna talk this is this is what I feel is the pivotal moment. This is kind of like it's it. It starts with something a little funny and then leads to this iconic moment. You know, you know carpentry a little bit, Harrison Ford. He's trying to be useful, you know, John Book's trying to be useful around the farm. He's doing a little bit of carpentry.

50:48 Harrison Ford a professional carpenter before he becomes an actor. And I love that Book and Rachel are flirting more. You know, the bonnet's off now Amber yep, she's stating her into hear her her intentions, and this leads to the barn dance. I think this is the pivotal moment. Sam Cook is filling the air and they're falling. It's such a good Is this not one of the greatest love story moments in a movie as far as you're as far as you're concerned, Yes, it is. You know, lantern lit barn, Sam Cooks on the radio, Harrison. You know they're they're dancing. Clearly, she's never danced before. And every time he and.

51:30 This is again where I said like he's being a little dorky, a little silly. Yeah, because every time they get so close and you're like, this is it, They're gonna kiss, he gets he gets the silly vibe. Right then he swings her around and then goes right into the next dance move. This is I feel like, the pivotal moment of the movie because this is where they have both recognized that they are in love with each other but they probably can't be together. Yes, you know, because it doesn't end with a passionate kiss. It ends with no, it's completely innocent, but it's innocent. But kind of interrupts. Yeah, and the thing it's over. So yeah, all right, I got I got three more scenes and you haven't mentioned your pivotal moment yet, but no. This is it. This is it? Okay?

52:11 Is it? Okay? All right? Three other scenes I want to talk about. I want to get your thoughts on the barn raising. It's just it is the most beautiful sequence. Why so the first thing that question I have to question Egli is like, come on, got a barn to raise in a day? To do it? They do this in one day? Like that's their customs and their farms to deal with, And yeah, I get it. You know they're under DELI dell around like get together and. Yeah, like oh this is and you know it's like you find out like, hey, we've got a newlyweds and this is like their gift, like the community. We all need a barn. Everyone needs a barn. Yep. It does break my heart to know that there were off off camera, there were some Amish asking about the barn.

52:58 What was going to happen to it when it was done? Because they're doing it. This is an actual barn that they're raising production toward the barn down when when the film was over, I know I saw that. How did you do that? Just leave it up? Yeah? I don't know, unless they didn't need. It, or there's probably like some kind of safety regulations or something like that. Something happened, you know. It's not that I don't know, but because. It wasn't the Amish building it like that's separate rules for their community. It is. But I do love that scene because it starts with, you know, because Harrison forty is up, he's he's he's moving around, and that's that's your line, you know, Daniel, your hole is healed, good, you can go home. He's he can't wait to send John book pack, and so he can.

53:44 All day. I got to tell you, I love the way they're putting this barn together. I don't know how Osha would feel about it, But damn, it's awesome. It's fun to watch. It's a fun scene to watch. Beautiful and the way, you know, like you said, the whole community is there, so you see all the storytelling going on while they're doing it, and you know, then at the end of the day, like the little boys are hammering in. Yeah, everybody's doing something. All right. Two two more scenes. Maybe one of the sexiest love making scenes that doesn't that doesn't have love making in it. I'm talking about Rachel bathing. What's your what's your take on this?

54:29 On this scene, I think the kiss is sexier, but. I do like everything that is said in that bathing scene without being said. Well, any I tell you right now, any scene where a woman is undressed and having a private moment like Rachel, you know, having a bath, and then you see a guy watching her, he's clearly that's that's clearly, there's like creepy. However, when it's Harrison Ford and he's looking at her, but he's not looking at her, he's looking at. Her he's well, he always is looking at her eyes.

55:09 Yeah, it's the desire, you know, and her and she invites him in like yeah, I mean she well, I mean she she turns around and you know kind of you know, because the whole thing about Amis is like the pride, like that's pride is a sin. But for her to turn around and show him like this. Is this is She's vulnerable, she's open, and it's an invitation and it's. An invitation and it's I think. I think it's sexy. I think it's tasteful. Yeah, Charlie from top like you've ever seen Charlie. But the kiss is great. Well, I'm not gonna say the kiss isn't great. But one one last scene real quick, so we got to move on books standing up to the town bullies.

55:56 I hate that scene. You hate that scene? Hold on, it's I mean, I know, I know why you hate it. Anytime you have a scene where bullies are being bullies, it's. It's just ignorant jerks, and that's upsetting. To have that violence in front of people that are poor. Violence is upsetting that. You know, everything that leads up to it. Harrison Ford is already a rack. Yeah, but the fact that you know they're they're they're shoving ice cream cones and. The satisfaction of the guy getting. I do because like Eli, you know, Harrison Ford is getting pissed and Eli is like, no, it's not our way, and then he just book just says it's my way, and he gets out and he tries to do the right thing. You know, Hey, you're making a mistake, and then they mess with him and dude gets his face caved in. I love that moment, you know, I love that.

56:48 And uh, Alexander good Enough looks at the cop and he's like, he's from Ohio. Yeah, oh yeah, he's my cousin. He's from Ohio. I was like, thank you, Alexander Goodenough, because that's how we do it in Ohio. We're not taking shit like that. Yeah, he's from Ohio. Amber, let's take one last break and when we come back, we'll wrap things up. Okay, Yes, welcome back. We have been discussing Peter Weir's nineteen eighty five crime thriller Witness. Amber. I'm gonna ask you, because I always ask you if someone was unfamiliar with Peter Weir, which three films would you suggest they watch after having seen Witness?

57:32 So definitely, my absolute favorite Peter Waer movie and one of my favorite movies of all time is the Truman Show. Okay, one for one Truman Show from nineteen ninety eight. I love that this is Jim Carrey being the hilarious Jim Carrey. But this is where this is the crossover movie. Right, he's funny, but this is where we get Jim Carrey as a dramatic actor. Yes, yes, he kind of has a knack for taking, you know, a comedian and giving them a dramatic role, you know, or. Any actor kind of an unexpected Yeah. Well, Harrison ford Is is Indiana Jones and Han solo and then he pulls him out of that fantasy world and now he's John Book. He's a very like you said earlier at the top of the hour, he's a very realistic, flawed type of you know, detectives.

58:27 Yeah, he's a man perfect gets scared. He's a man who is injured. Yeah, you know, all right, same thing with Trimman Show. It just. We did a whole episode on it over at Docking Bay and it just can't say enough about it's how beautifully written it is. And Jim Carrey is amazing. Ed Harris is a great villain. Laura Lenny is a great villain. I hate her even. More you know I feel about Laura, Lenny. I've said it before. She's your best friend. She's your mom's best friend that you have thoughts about. That's that's Lord Lenny. All Right, what do you got Your second suggestion to someone wanting to watch more Peter Weir?

59:08 I'm gonna throw out The Year of Living Dangerously. It's one of his earlier movies. I did not see that coming, but continue. Sigourney Weaver is amazing in it. Yeah, Linda Hunt won an Academy Award for her performance. And film. It's a great film, an. Incredibly intense movie. One of the few things of Mel Gibson's that I can still watch. Okay, I appreciate all right, all right, let's go. Your third and final suggestion for someone wanting to watch more Peter Weir, I shall.

59:50 Surprise you again. I really appreciate the movie Green Card. What it is. It is a charming little romantic comedy. It's just a fun little movie, and I really love it. I cannot stay in He's one of the best. The guy sucks. He's not a goods Have you seen Sarah no Depresion? Yes? You know, what what are you thinking it? Yeah? But Steve Martin was so much. I was gonna say it's not better than Rock Sand, but yeah, I want the According to Hoyle, you're watching it for French class.

1:00:33 No, it's brilliant and Green Card is absolutely charming. I did not see that coming. I'm happily surprised with the year Living Dangerously, but I'm like, I'm a guest. The great thing about the great thing about Peter were is honestly you could pick them. All you could. Okay, I'll be fair. There's really not a bad one there. All right. Well, I just assumed that you would have The Mosquito Coast from nineteen eighty six on your list because I know how you feel about it because I listened to you talk about it with me and Andrew on that Patreon episode. So yes, Harrison Ford and River Phoenix, just a whole lot of wow in the Mosquito Coast. Fantastic film.

1:01:20 So that's my that'd be you know, you and I are clicking on Truman Show, I had a Mosquito Coast. And then lastly, again a little surprised that you wouldn't have this one because he's taken another famous comedian and giving him a dramatic Role nineteen eight nine Dead Poets Society with Robin Williams. It's so heartbreaking, Okaytin, And since Robin Williams' death, like, I can't watch it. I just can't. Is it just that one or any Robin Williams films? I haven't watched any Robin Williams movie since he died. Really, it's so heartbreaking, I know. All right, Well listen, listeners. You got yourself what like five choices there?

1:02:04 Yeah? Yeah, so I mean, but honestly, do yourself a favor. Watch them all. They make it. Hanging Rock, the true story that Robert won't admit is a true story. Another good one. Amber. I don't recommend seeing this film. I recommend owning it. Oh what are you talking about? I've got it. It's in my collection. It should be in your hairson for collection? Did do you own this one? Or did you have to stream this one? Amazon Prime has it on sale for seven ninety nine, so you know, I'm that's for space. So I do the digital sometimes, and so I did get the digital of this, although I'm jealous because I want those extra those bonus features.

1:02:47 I have the DVD, but I now I have to order the Blue Ray because the Blu Ray has a audio commentary. You know how I love my audio commentaries. Yes, so I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to give you my my DVD. I can't just throw the DVD out. But I can't imagine a film starring Alexander goodenough. You know, drinking lemonade is not one that you're not gonna put in your collections. Of him dancing. So all right, well that's more important to me. Listeners, What do you think of Witness? Have you seen this one? I know we didn't get this one wrong, Amber, but I'm just curious. I'd love to hear what people think of Witness. You can let us know on social media.

1:03:30 You'll find us on Facebook, Instagram, and x You can check out a Film by Podcast dot com for film and TV articles that we've supplied, plus our entire library, which is streaming free. Amber. We're talking over three hundred sixty maybe seventy episodes at this point, six seasons. I mean, we're getting we're getting along on the tooth. That's your whole work. We started there. It is. You can write to us at a Film by Podcast at gmail dot com with your questions, comments and concerns. We may just read your response on the show and send you some of our a film by Swag as always. Uh, it's pleasure, Miss lewis uh talking talking great movies with you.

1:04:13 You. I know you are about to get real busy because as we head into March, it's it's Women's History Month, and uh, you've got a pretty full dance card, don't you know? Lot of fun stuff. You're even gonna be on Faser Set to Stone, aren't you. I cannot wait. You are heading to the bridge to talk uh talk Star Trek. I can't wait to hear that one, because yes, I know what you guys are talking about, and I'm excited. So yeah, it's so good. I'm so excited. All right, Well, listeners, if listen any any Star Trek loving UH fans out there, if you haven't checked out Faser Set to Stune. It is our Wednesday show that we drop usually every other Wednesday, sometimes it's every Wednesday, depends on what the what the crew is doing with the what the what Abe and Wayne and Scott are working on checks.

1:05:02 One I listened to was Wrathacon and it was amazing. Oh, they were so awesome on Wrath that was That was a good one, so check it out. And uh, meanwhile, for all of you that are listening to the show, following us on social media, subscribing to our Patreon where you can listen to Amber talk about the Mosquito Coast, we thank you.