1976 - All the President's Men

WEBVTT

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So some what are you saying?
Well, I'm trying to tell you that

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if you'd read mine and then read
your readers yet nobody knows better, you're

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gonna do it. Do it right
here. My notice, I don't mind

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what you did. I mind the
way you did first sting. You're fault

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on the story and I don't fuck
it up. Hello everybody, and welcome

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back to a Film Buys Limited series
nineteen seventy six, and today we are

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talking about All the President's Men,
and you've got the Woodstein of podcast hosts

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with you today. I am Brett
Kozo, and the Bernstein to my Woodward

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is, of course, the other
Hoffman over Dustin Hoffman. It is Scott

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Hoffman. Scott, welcome to the
show, and thanks for being here.

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Thanks Brett. Happy to talk about
my uncle Dustin's favorite movie. Yes,

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actual relation, but if that'd be
cool if there was, just just give

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me a call. That's all I'm
saying, dust. So we're continuing our

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celebration of Dustin Hoffman's eighty fifth birthday
this week. We had talked about Marathon

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Man later earlier this week, but
this time we're talking about All the President's

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Men. Popular book, Popular screenplay
popular movie. We don't really have to

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say what the movie is about because
we pretty much know what it's about.

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But it's a very complicated movie,
don't you agree, Scott, Yeah,

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absolutely, And I mean, you
know, it's it's something that obviously has

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a lot of historical significance because of
the Watergate scandal. This is something that

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you know, a lot of people
are probably learning about in school right as

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part of history class, and you
know, it might even be shown as

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part of the class. But at
the time, we're talking about a wound

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that's still pretty fresh, right four
years after the scandal hit. Yeah,

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thats right. So, and at
the time there's limited news sources. You've

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got television, you've got newspapers,
but not a lot of other vehicles to

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learn about these things, at least
not in one clear chunk. You could

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probably read a book, you could
probably read a memoir, but this is,

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as far as I know, one
of the most kind of concise ways

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that somebody can get a grasp on
everything that was going on. This is

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definitely, to me, one of
those movies that is a great snapshot of

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seventy six. The technology, the
topic obviously was still very hot and still

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very much something that people were still
talking about and trying to wrap their head

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around, because this thing is complex, extraordinarily complex. Yeah, and one

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of the things that Goldman talked about
tackling this thing, it was like I

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had too much time gone, you
know since that happened, you know,

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where people had water Gate kind of
fatigue or were they ready for something like

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this, Are they gonna Hollywood flash
it up? So it was still kind

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of a gamble because there were still
a lot of people you could have upset

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at the same time. Yeah.
Absolutely, by the same token, it's

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something that you know, took in
a pretty significant box office draw for a

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movie like this. I remember thinking, you know, my recent viewing of

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this, this is a pretty long
and quiet movie. There's not a lot

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of flash. It's not like a
you know, a Michael Bay type thriller

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where you're seeing a bunch of you
know, action shots of people running around.

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There's a fair amount of action,
but for the most part, it's

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investigative journalism. It's private conversations,
it's whispered conversations. Actually had to crank

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the volume way up on this movie
to hear what was going on and watch

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it with subtitles, because aside from
everything being very very low and quiet,

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they're talking under the pounding of typewriter
keys, which was apparently punctuated with like

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whip lashes and gunshots. So it
was kind of like, it is extraordinary,

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extraordinarily hard to hear parts of this
movie. It feels like if you

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miss a word, you miss a
lot, because there's a lot of names,

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a lot of connections to try to
digest. Honestly, I could see

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myself probably falling asleep in the theater, not because it's not interesting, not

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because it's not told in a compelling
way, but because it is so quiet

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and so hushed. And I think
in the seventies that may have been pretty

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hard for a movie theater. And
I think too, like, for instance,

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when I first saw this movie,
you know, it was on all

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the list, you know one a
fis one hundred, you know, one

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hundred best screenplays type of thing,
and seeing it, I was like,

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well, I enjoyed it, but
I'm also lost. You know. I

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still felt the excitement and the espionage
type of thing, but what it made

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me want to do was to I
was like, I enjoy it, but

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I don't want to feel kind of
dumb about it, and it made me

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very interested in the subject itself,
you know, so it was like,

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why don't you read the book?
And then reading the book and it outlying

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the players more and you kind of
had a little bit more information about people

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because, like you said, there
is so many names, so many people,

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so many names. It's kind of
like a Lord of the Rings or

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a game of throwing things. There's
other people's names that sort of sound alike,

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so you're like, are you talking
about this person or that person?

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And the fact that you kind of
had these things so rewatching it after seeing

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that reading the book. And then
another thing that goes along great companion with

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this movie is HBO recently did a
mini mini series called White House Plumbers that's

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about Howard Hunt and Gordon Liddy and
it's Woody Harrelson and Justin Throwe and being

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able to put a kind of a
face to the name because these people that

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you that they're talking about in the
film, you don't see them the main

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players. I mean, you never
see an actor portraying them, or you

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know, you see some news footage
of Nixon and the real stuff, but

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you never really see any of the
actual culprits of the crimes. But now

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after seeing that and I rewatched it
again and knowing that, and it makes

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the movie so much more enjoyable because
you know who the players are. But

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yeah, it is a complicated movie
of you know, someone can watch Star

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Wars like us and be like,
oh, well that's because of this and

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this. Now somebody that doesn't know
the players and is watching it for the

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first time is going to be completely
a lot. But once they get in

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that mode, they're good to go, right. And I think they do

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a great job in this movie of
giving it just enough exposition to let you

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know who's who, because honestly,
I felt the guy who I felt like

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the guy who graduated in the lower
tenth of his history class. I was

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like, I know Nixon, I
know Watergate, I know what the White

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House is. But otherwise, you
know, I'll recog names, I'll recognize

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names like Lyddy. But there's a
great scene early on when Redford's character is

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asking about like, now, who
is this guy and Ben Bradley's no,

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his editor, Yeah right, He
says, I'm glad you're asking me,

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because if you asked him, he'd
say, you're an idiot and have you

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fired? Yeah, So they do
a great job of walking you through who's

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who and even if you get lost, like when they were naming like all

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right, so we've got L.
P. H. And M. I

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think it was Mitchell and or yeah, right, And it doesn't it doesn't

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necessarily hinder the understandability of it to
not know those things or to know the

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history, which at the time has
to be really useful. Again like and

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I was born in seventy six,
so I don't necessarily remember, you know,

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what was happening with the news media. But the impression I get is

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that you would probably see somebody in
a magazine if you subscribed to Time or

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Life or something like that, and
you're reading through these things. You might

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see a photograph in the newspaper,
or you'd have to be watching the six

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o'clock news or the eleven o'clock news
to get any of the faces to see

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any of this kind of stuff.
Because you don't have CNN at the time,

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right right, you might have PBS
where you can try to, you

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know, watch hearings on a rolling
basis. I don't know if they had

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you know, wall to wall coverage
at the time, but it doesn't have

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the same atmosphere that we have now
where you could recognize the faces, you

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know the names because you've heard of
a thousand times, right, you don't

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have that much access to it.
So it seems like it would have been

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a very useful movie for somebody to
like me at the time, to say,

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like, Holy God, all I
know is that there's a massive catastrophe.

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The president is not the president anymore
Watergate. I don't understand all the

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players, and you get a better
appreciation for what these two reporters went through

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for the story. I think it's
absolutely fascinating to see them doing things like

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writing down notes by hand, having
to make phone calls to different people to

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make connections. So now you've got
a factory in like time zones and work

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schedules and all this other kind of
stuff. Having to look through phone books

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stooks. Good God Like, knowing
how much they had to do with such

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expediency is astonishing. The amount that
they would have to remember is astonishing.

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And I I think this job does
a great job of showing that it's a

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it's a great slice of the of
the time, and yeah, I think

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it was really well done. So
a little bit about the making of the

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film. You got Alan jape Coola
behind the camera. He had done pretty

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well with things like the parallax view. But the main person kind of with

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the driver of this was was Redford. You know, he was producer on

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the film, and of course his
agreement to play Woodward. I mean,

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you know, we've all seen Woodward
and Bernstein now, but you know,

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to see it at that time,
it's like, Okay, yeah, they

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didn't look exactly like him. But
I thought Redford's performance not as over the

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top as somebody like, you know, Hoffman was. It was stellar.

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What about you? Yeah, I
think it was definitely the right balance.

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I know that I had seen that
there was the thought behind casting Pacino instead

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of Hoffman. Yeah, I feel
like that would have been the wrong kind

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of energy. I think it would
have been a little bit of competing,

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competing energy with Redford's energy to have
Pacino in there. I think, Uh,

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Dustin Hoffman, you know, it's
a it's a far cry from Marathon

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Man, which is still disturbing me
when I think about like the teeth scene

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and things like that. But I
mean, he has he has the right

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kind of balance. I think he
really gets you into that idea that he's

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the veteran working with this semi green
rookie and you know, walking him through

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the ropes and getting things right.
You get the idea that they're a duo

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that complement each other well without competing
with each other. Yeah. And once

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you see they've got that when they
do the polishing scene, you know,

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they were like, these two they
might not like each other, but they

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can work together. Yeah. Exactly. He's like, I don't like the

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way you did it, but I
like what you did. Yeah. Yeah,

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and then they just jell in connect. I thought that was fantastic.

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I thought there was an interesting connection
with Nora Ephron. Yeah. William Goldman

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not a big fan of that that
story. Basically, he had delivered about

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four versions of the script, you
know, because the had to basically cut

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out a third of the book because
towards the end of the book, you

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know, not much had happened,
and the only the scene that they wanted

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to do because Nora E. Fhron
was dating at the time, later married

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Nora Efron, And when Redford had
Goldman come over to discuss the script,

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comes over there and Redford is there, Woodward and Bernstein and Nora Ephron,

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and Redford says, I think he's
this is his girlfriend, uh, Nora

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Ephron, and she wrote some stuff
and I think you should take a look

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at it. And Goldman got mad. He said the only thing that he

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that wasn't his was the Bernstein getting
into Ned Biddy's office by doing the that's

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the only one he goes. That
was the Hollywood stuff. But Goldman said

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he saw the film because he didn't
know what script they were going to use

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out of his. He's like,
I was surprised. He's like, some

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dialogue was rewarked here and there and
somebody. He goes, but that was

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my script. He's like, I
was. I was happy with it,

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you know, and Winds the Academy
Award for it for Adapted Screenplay. So

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he was actually satisfied with except obviously
that one part. And he didn't like

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that one part in Marathon Man that
we talked about, you know, right,

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yeah, no, and it's you
know, we've talked about the writing

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a bit. We've talked about the
two lead actors in this. I think

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we've got a great bullpen of other
actors. Yeah, at the top of

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their you've got Jason Robards, who
always makes me think of in this role.

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Absolutely. Yeah. It actually threw
me for a loop because at first

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I was thin the whole and this
is me without doing the history. He

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thought that Ben Bradley was somehow going
to be trying to squash the story because

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he was being paid off by the
White House or something like that. But

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took a great turn and said like, no, I'm going to see this

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through. These aren't necessarily the reporters
that I would always put on this,

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but I want them on this,
these two reporters specifically, and would help

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to champion that all the way through. Similarly, you've got Jack Warden,

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Martin Balsam, everybody, Like all
those all those bullpen meetings, I thought

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were a great way of kind of
looking at how the rest of the journalistic

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community was probably looking at this story, even though it wasn't getting a lot

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of talk. It wasn't like they
were sharing it here and became the headline

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of every newspaper. Necessarily, it
was a very slow burn, but they

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had a great cast going through.
A couple that stood out to me,

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and this is just random TV references, but it takes me back to the

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seventies. Obviously that Secretary scene,
seeing flow from Alice as the secretary that

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got yeah, she's yeah, she's
uh, she's the girl that actually likes

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the men, the scene that Goldman
didn't like, right exactly. She's always

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great to see. And then I
thought there was another kind of interesting pop

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culture connection with Meredith Baxter saw Debbie
Sloan. I was like, wait,

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Alex p. Keaton's mom is in
all the President's Men. Yeah, you

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gotta you gotta look close, because
it doesn't really look like her. She's

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very stoic. Yeah, she's got
like no emotion in her face. You

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know. Yeah, this is an
honest house, but it shows how,

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you know. And obviously it was
Jane Alexander who who won the Academy Award.

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Is that right or is it nominated? She was nominated, I can't.

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I don't think she won, but
it was we should be talking about

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on that nineteen seventy six episode,
right, But it was of course Jason

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Robards, who I mean just every
scene that he's in is just it makes

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makes you want to have him as
a boss. It just really doesn't like

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every boss should kind of be like, you know, he's not your pal,

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and he still holds some authority,
you know, like when he one

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thing is you know, sometimes brutal, especially probably for a journalist, is

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the red pen. You know.
Yeah, oh I remember that scene he

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hands him their draft, he takes
out his red pen and he's like,

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you don't got it, you know, and they're just like, all this

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work and you just crossed out like
two pages basically right, but always forcing

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it to be better. Yeah,
dig deeper, dig deeper for all these

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facts that make it rock solid,
even done to that great tense scene later

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when they say, you know,
you've got minutes to get somebody on the

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phone and corroborate this story, the
story, because otherwise we can't run it

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right, you know, there with
it the whole time. Yeah, and

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this was a time where you know, you're talking about very small news sources,

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you know, so you had to
have credibility, you know, you

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had to be able to cite a
source that site. That source had to

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be confirmed, and you know we
don't see that today, you know,

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it's just like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know that's how

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it was. And if you didn't
confirm your source, your reputation is down

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the tubes, your job is gone, you know, your company is shut

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down because then at that time,
no one would want to trust you,

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you know, and it was such
a big risk at that time, or

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today it is just like whatever,
we can say whatever online, it's fine,

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right, And you've got the biggest
powers in the US that are controlling

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all the information and the infrastructure of
the US taking steps to shut this one

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down. So even if you get
all your facts right, you're going to

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have bigger faces, bigger names telling
you discrediting it. Basically. Yeah,

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that's why I think, you know, the span of the cast, from

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the biggest to the from the leading
actors to the you know, character actors

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that supplement every one of them helps
to paint that picture of the tension at

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the time that was going on with
it. Nobody wanted to talk. Everybody's

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whispering, everybody's hiding around this.
And I think we've got sellar performances across

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the board within those parts. And
you had the unveiling of the Pentagon papers

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earlier, you know, so the
country is already hurting because of that and

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knowing what what basically happened in Vietnam, so they're not looking good right now,

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and this would just could be the
nail on the coffin if they but

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they have to be right. They
just have to be right right, and

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all they have is their phone,
their pen and their memory to be able

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to capture one of the most complex
and damning stories at the time. It's

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00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.920
fascinating. Where we're gonna take a
quick break in here from our sponsors,

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00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.400
and when we come back, we're
gonna be talking about underrated scenes and words

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00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.319
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250
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257
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got a great idea instead of potatoes. Why, honey, stovetop stuffing isn't

258
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.319
stove tap for chicken? There's a
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259
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:06.200
pork. Sounds really tasty. Is
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260
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perfect with pork? Is that a
fact that new stove top stuffing mix for

261
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:17.200
pork instead of potatoes? Scott,
let's talk underrated scenes. Now, it's

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00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:21.519
not your favorite scene. It's not
in the trailer for the film. Both

263
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:26.240
added the film is less to you. What do you think is the underrated

264
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.480
scene of the movie? For me, it's I'm going to count to ten.

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00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.039
Hi, this is Carl. I'm
sorry to strive you now, but

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00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.799
we're going with the story that holmost
a fifth man in control of the fun

267
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:38.599
and they're hassling is here. We
got three confirmation. But if you could

268
00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.079
just help us, i'd appreciate it. Look, I won't say anything about

269
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.599
hold of it. I understand that
we wouldn't want you to do that.

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00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:45.759
We know it's against the law for
you to say anything. If there's some

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00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.160
way you could warn us to hold
on the story, we'd appreciate it.

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00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.200
I'd really like to help you,
but I can't. Look, I'm going

273
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.920
to count to ten, all right. If there's any reason we should hold

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on the story, hang up the
phone before I get to ten. If

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00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.880
the story's all right, you'll just
be on phone after I get to ten.

276
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.039
All right, you know we've already
talked about, you know, having

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00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.599
to vet and corroborate these things to
make sure that that it holds water and

278
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:14.799
that your publisher feels comfortable doing so. That entire scene, from their chat

279
00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:19.559
in the bullpen to stopping Ben Bradley
on the elevator, they have very little,

280
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:25.359
limited time, very limited technology to
be able to corroborate an enormous story,

281
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.960
and their editor is about to leave
for the night, so the story

282
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.240
is dead if they can't get somebody
on the phone. Dustin Hoppin has a

283
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.079
great scene where he gets on the
phone with a key player and says,

284
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.920
I tell you what you can't say. Yes, you can't say anything.

285
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.599
You can't help me out. So
I'm going to give you something that you

286
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.240
can do that won't that won't demand
that you do anything that implicates you.

287
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.079
I'm going to count to ten,
and if you don't stop me, I'm

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00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.799
going to assume that you agree with
it and that I can run it.

289
00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.000
And he gets that confirmation and they
literally have to run and put their hand

290
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.440
on the closing elevator door to get
Ben Bradley to agree, and he says,

291
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.559
go with it, right. I
think that that says so much about

292
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:14.039
the movie, but understandably it's not
one that you can necessarily show a reveal

293
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.480
to somebody who who doesn't know it
be a big spoiler. Yeah, what

294
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.599
about you, underrated movie or a
moment let's see. I think I have

295
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.240
a wife and two kids and a
cat and a dog. I knew you're

296
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:33.960
gonna say that. Yeah, no, I actually think And don't judge me

297
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.119
for this one. When the scene
where they asked the girl if the guy

298
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:42.200
that she used to date if they
could get if she could get some information

299
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.599
from him, yeah, you know, and how he's just like, do

300
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.839
you think he said it to impress
you to go to bed with you?

301
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:53.720
And it's wouldward at this point that's
being a little push you with it,

302
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:59.440
and he knows he's kind of got
her when he goes forget it. We

303
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.359
don't want to make you do anything
uncomfortable, and he knows he's got her.

304
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.480
And it showed that sure, these
guys were doing a good day,

305
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.559
but they did some kind of rough
stuff to get, you know, to

306
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:15.079
get what they needed to get,
you know, But I think that kind

307
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.200
of shows that's what you had to
do, you know, and that leads

308
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:26.359
into somebody happen to make the decision
of can I go see this person?

309
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:29.279
And is it good for the story? You know, it definitely helped that

310
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.839
she was a journalist and she even
did it that way. I think that's

311
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:37.200
one of the most one of the
underrated moments. But there's, like I

312
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.559
said, this movie is chock full
of good scenes, you know. I

313
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.720
mean, but it's it's a talkie, but it's an exciting talkie. I

314
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.200
know we said before it wasn't like
a Michael Bay action movie, but it

315
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:56.160
it has so many big scenes,
and I mean, it probably is considered

316
00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:02.359
the best movie about journalism ever.
I know they still show it to journalist

317
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.960
students, even journalists that at least
for the set. They said the set

318
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.279
was, Yeah, that looked like
the Washington Posts, you know, and

319
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.640
the accuracy definitely helped hurt the audio. But you know, I mean,

320
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.799
it's it's considered one of those you
know, but I mean it just I

321
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:26.400
think it still holds today. I
think it's still is just as good then

322
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.319
as it is now. Yeah,
and you can definitely see the influence on

323
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:38.079
modern movies about journalism. You know, validates that the story behind these stories

324
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.200
is not only worth telling, but
it's worth showing. It's worth getting into

325
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.960
the emotional depth of the characters who
are real people, and you know,

326
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.640
bringing that to late, I think
the scene that you mentioned is the underrated

327
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.200
scene is a great representation of that, because I wasn't sure whether Redford was

328
00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:02.440
saying, well, I should say
would, but whatever Woodward was saying in

329
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.480
that scene, you know what,
I genuinely don't want to push because I

330
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.359
want to be a good person and
hold back. This is personal. This

331
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.480
is a line I don't want to
cross. We've got it. It's okay,

332
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.000
you don't need to do so.
At the same time, I was

333
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.559
thinking, is he just putting a
little bit more slack in the line?

334
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.920
Yeah, and say, we're trying
to pull you in. We're trying to

335
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.079
pull you in. I'll let you
go a little bit if you don't want

336
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.920
to go any further, no hard
feelings. If you do want to go

337
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.079
any further, I'm going to make
it your voice, your decision. And

338
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.359
you see her when she hands off
the paper and then sits down at the

339
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:40.480
desk. That actress does an amazing
job by the way she gives that look,

340
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.680
that's like, I did you this
favor. Don't talk to me about

341
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.039
it and don't ask me again.
Yeah, talk to me for a couple

342
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.920
of weeks. Yeah, we just
we will neither not talk about this at

343
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.640
all, right, Right, And
I think it's still it's still something worth

344
00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:04.920
showing to a sparring journalists obviously historians, but for journalists to say limited technology

345
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:11.799
limited means being able to do these
things the rotary phones, Yeah, taking

346
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:18.240
off the magnetic speaker part that you
talk into of the phone so that you

347
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.839
can listen in without being heard,
right, knowing the pressure that goes throughout

348
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.319
the bullpen to say, there's consequences
to this. If we run a story

349
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:33.359
that we can't support, it could
shut us down. It'll compromise the integrity

350
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.039
of everybody involved in this, and
we won't be able to work again,

351
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.039
which means a lot of people won't
be able to get their information right.

352
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.160
A lot of things that go into
this, and I think it just encapsulates

353
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.079
it really well. Aside from being
one of the most important stories it's ever

354
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:52.359
been written in history, it's definitely
one that you know, influences a lot

355
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:56.920
of those journalistic movies. You can
see a lot of the tropes that we're

356
00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:02.359
used to in other movies, journalistic
or not, that just were pervasive throughout

357
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.799
from this, I mean specifically deep
Throat in the garage. How many times

358
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.519
have we seen, like you know, in trading places they're exchanging orange futures.

359
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:21.319
In Police Academy three, they're exchanging
information about dumb stuff. But that's

360
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:25.200
a that's a trope that we became
so used to seeing in subsequent movies in

361
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:30.799
the seventies, eighties, I'd say
probably through the nineties that we're so used

362
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:34.400
to seeing. But now you're seeing
kind of the genesis of it. At

363
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.559
the same time, you're seeing,
you know, the covert steps that somebody

364
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.839
had to go through to get this
information to pull it out. It's it's

365
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.839
no wonder there's probably a thousand books, one hundred classes taught that are still

366
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:56.039
talking about this. Speaking of words
that matter, this script considered one of

367
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.079
the best written scripts of all time. You know, it's in the National

368
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.000
Library of Congress. It's like I
said, it's on all the top ten

369
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.160
lists. I mean, so many
great quotable lines in the movie, you

370
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:14.039
know, follow the money Woodstein,
uh, you know, rock talking,

371
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:19.960
you know what I mean. There's
terminology in this under enunciating things, you

372
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:27.000
know. You know, besides the
fact that everything that we associate with somebody

373
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:32.599
doing wrong or something went wrong ends
with the word gate. You know,

374
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:38.000
everything is now nipple gate, you
know, you know, uh inflate gate.

375
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:44.799
You know. So, what are
some of the best lines You've named?

376
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:49.480
Some great ones. I think one
that sticks with me sweep away all

377
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:56.480
the political stuff and just focus on
these characters as people, to let them

378
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.400
thinking of is is there any place
where you don't smoke? Right? Because

379
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.119
I didn't notice how much he was
smoking until I heard that line, and

380
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:08.160
then every scene I'm like, he's
you know, forcing it. Well,

381
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.960
he's in what I want to say, not intruding. But he shows up

382
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.440
at the bookkeeper's house, right,
and he's like, can I just get

383
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.279
a cigarette? Do you have a
match? And I'm like, man,

384
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.000
this guy's a change smoker. And
I know that was part of the production

385
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.440
that they had seen how much he
was doing so as they were as they

386
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:32.720
were talking to him and kind of
getting the story. But I think that's

387
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:41.440
a great lens into when you're doing
cinematic storytelling and you're telling the audience something

388
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.000
that they never knew they were seeing
the entire time, that tells you a

389
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:49.480
little bit more about the person.
Yes, Bernstein is in a high,

390
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:56.599
high pressure profession and he's been in
it since he was sixteen. Yeah,

391
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.119
naturally, the guy in the seventies
is gonna smoke like a chimney. So

392
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.799
I just thought it did a great
job of kind of giving you an extra

393
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:08.319
little bonus. And it's just something
I can't look away from when I see

394
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:15.400
his scenes What about You, I
think as many lines that Jason Robards has

395
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.440
in the film, it's his last
scene, which you know, almost basically

396
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.880
kind of closes out the movie of
you know, nothing is riding on his

397
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.680
except the you know, Constitution,
the First Amendment, you know, freedom

398
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.839
of the press and the history of
the country. But if you two guys

399
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.519
fuck up again, I'm gonna get
mad. And it was and it's just

400
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:41.480
oh man, that just in But
I mean, every single thing, even

401
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.759
the mess ups are good. Like
when he is on the phone, when

402
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.440
Woodward is on the phone and he's
trying to keep one guy on hold while

403
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:52.680
he's doing he says the wrong name. That actually was a mess up,

404
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.359
and they just but it kept going
because I'm like, it probably would be

405
00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.200
confused. You're like, can you
hold on? You know, but and

406
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:07.559
the intensity of having to talk on
the phone and you know when and also

407
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.559
you get to kind of be a
little bit of a spy as you're watching.

408
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.839
Everybody else is like putting it and
putting it on mute, you know,

409
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.319
And I'm right here, I'm gonna
listening on it too. It's like

410
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:21.519
Rob Arts, Oh you got too, you know, kids and a wife

411
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:23.559
and a cat and a dog.
You know. So it's like, so

412
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:30.359
I love all those things. How
they keep it it's a very serious subject,

413
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.559
but they also keep it light,
like, yeah, is there anywhere

414
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:37.559
you don't smoke? And you know
him pulling the napkins out and I don't

415
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.000
know what, I'm certain when he
hand seem a cookie, he's I don't

416
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.559
write just that he's like, I
don't want to cookie. Get out of

417
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.000
here. Yeah, or just scenes
where they think they're like, you know,

418
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:51.160
when he's like, just let you
know, I believe when they're talking

419
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.079
to Sloan, I'm a Republican,
I am too. When Woodward where Woodward

420
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.359
says that it's like, oh yeah, and then she just look like you're

421
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:05.079
just not like a liberal hippie trying
to put me down. Yeah. Yeah,

422
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.160
there's there's so many words that matter
in this but yeah, I think

423
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:12.240
those are some of the great ones. All Right, we're gonna take a

424
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.000
quick break, but when we come
back, we're gonna talk prequel, sequel,

425
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:31.400
remake, yo meal meal meal meo
meo meal meal. Cats are singing

426
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:36.319
the praises of neo mix cat,
a tasty combination of the three flavors.

427
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.640
Cats love tuna, liver, and
chicken, each a separate bite sized morsel,

428
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.920
so a cat gets a mouthful of
variety every time he opens his mouth.

429
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:49.680
Yeah, welcome back to nineteen seventy
six. We're still talking all the

430
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:55.920
President's Men, prequel, sequel or
remake. Yeah, I'm gonna go full

431
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.359
bristers millions and vote for none of
the above because looking into you know,

432
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.200
I've never seen the post, the
recent movie with Meryl Streep and Tom Hanks.

433
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:10.480
Now I really really want to because
I think that's the appropriate kind of

434
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.400
prequel that you want to have to
this, right, Yeah, because it's

435
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:19.359
about the Pentagon paper papers coming out
exactly you're getting more into Ben Bradley,

436
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:24.160
you're getting more into the publisher who
you know. They pursued some some different

437
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:28.200
casting there, and I think at
the time she was pretty nervous about,

438
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.880
like, oh God, who's going
to play me? And then kind of

439
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:34.240
relieved when they didn't. Now you
know, unfortunately she passed away before that

440
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.839
movie came out, But you know, it's it's definitely worth seeing. I

441
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.599
don't think that I would remake this
movie. I wouldn't touch a stitch of

442
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:47.359
it because it's so of the time. I can't imagine trying to even if

443
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.160
you had the perfect set design,
it would lose something and the grittiness of

444
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:57.480
the film, in the sound quality, in the set pieces, of the

445
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:01.079
actors, who are all kind of
trying to be very careful with the subject

446
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:07.599
matter. And sequel. I know
there's got to be follow ups that are

447
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.320
worthwhile, but it's kind of like, I don't know that i'd want to

448
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:16.880
hear more about this moment in time. It's so fixed that I just don't

449
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:21.840
see where else you would go.
Well, the thing is this movie has

450
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.639
other companions to it. If you
want to know more about what happened to

451
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:29.400
Nixon, afterwards, watch Frost Nixon. If you want to know more about

452
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:31.960
Hunt and Lyddy, watch White House
Plumbers. You want to know more about

453
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.960
the Pentagon papers in Bed Bradley before
that the Post. You know, you

454
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:38.159
want to know more about the case. You know, you got the book.

455
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:43.079
So there's so many things about it. And if you're in the mood

456
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:46.559
for something, just in that same
vein you look at something like two thy

457
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:52.760
seven Zodiac. I mean, Fincher
has said All the President's Men was my

458
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:58.199
template for Zodiac. You know.
Unfortunately it didn't do well. But when

459
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.760
you watch it now, it's it's
like all the Prison's been. It's a

460
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:07.679
talkie, it's investigated journalism. It's
writing things down on notepads and you know,

461
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.400
rotary dial phones, you know,
so there are other things to it.

462
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:16.320
It just yeah, it just couldn't
be done. You can do movies

463
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:22.920
in that vein, but it's and
it's two. It's a part of our

464
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.440
pop culture now, like I said, the Watergate terminology and everything like that.

465
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.079
It just like I said, it's
a great movie. It's got great

466
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:35.920
performances, it's direct to great,
it looks good. Gordon Will's photography is

467
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:40.400
stellar. How Hallbrook, Jason Robards, I mean Hoffman Woodward. Like I

468
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:45.000
said, they both compliment each other. No one outshines the other. I

469
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:50.800
mean, the only thing Hoffman told
Pakola is make me look better than Redford,

470
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:53.119
make me look more head is the
only thing you taught him. Yeah.

471
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:58.039
Well, when it comes to ratings
and scores, I think, without

472
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:02.199
a doubt for me, this movie
is a full on four star. I'm

473
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:07.440
guessing that you are similar in that, but you may surprise me, Like

474
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:09.599
what do you think, No,
no surprise here, four out of four.

475
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.719
I mean, even when I was
talking about like you know, hard

476
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.320
to hear in some places, it's
still knocks it out of the park.

477
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.599
And yeah, I think it's it's
it's highly recommended. We're at the fiftieth

478
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:27.840
anniversary of the Watergate scandal itself.
We're obviously, you know, coming up

479
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:32.199
on a lot of anniversaries, but
it's it's a great time to crack this

480
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:37.000
one back open and see where it
leads you. Like you were mentioning a

481
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.239
lot of other journalists and movies,
this is the four star pinnacle you want

482
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.239
to start with. Yeah, I
mean, now this would be either a

483
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:51.360
stream it I think it's streaming on
I believe HBO Max at the moment,

484
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:54.480
maybe even to be it. Well, so it does have some places where

485
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.039
you can see it. It pops
up on streaming all the time. I

486
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:00.559
mean I have a copy. But
yeah, well and I mean I was

487
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.000
I had to go to the local
library to get this one. So if

488
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.119
you can't find it streaming, it's
always a great resource to think about supporting

489
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:13.480
the library and getting some physical media, which I think Dayton Johnson would love.

490
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.920
Yeah, I have the physical media
of it. Well, Scott,

491
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:21.159
I want to thank you for being
my Burns scene today. Speaking of libraries,

492
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.280
that's actually where Jeff Johnson is.
He is looking out all the books

493
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:29.599
at the White House asked for on
chop a quittic. So if you've seen

494
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:34.440
this film, you know Jeff's going
to be there quite a while. Scott,

495
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.719
I know you've got some stuff.
You got something else coming up pretty

496
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.280
soon, am I right? So
yeah, and we always have a great

497
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:44.519
conversation. We actually talked on a
regular basis with Wayne White. Did the

498
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:47.280
three of us get into Strange New
Wednesdays, which if you've never turned in

499
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.840
tuned in, we get into Star
Trek Strange New Worlds, which in my

500
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:54.719
opinion, is one of the best
series on TV and a great way to

501
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:59.880
get into Star Trek, great way
to revisit it if you're a longtime fan.

502
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:04.360
Uh, we're gonna be talking about
the season finale, which is going

503
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.760
to be fairly intense. So if
you have a chance, tune into Strange

504
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:13.159
New Wednesdays on our podcast and we'll
talk about some exciting things turning up.

505
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:17.880
Well, I want to thank my
co host Scott Hoffman for joining joining me

506
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.920
today. It's been fun talking about
Dustin Hoffman movies. You know, we

507
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.880
knocked a two out, you know, with Marathon Man in this one,

508
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:29.920
but even though the guy's eighty five, you still got a ton more.

509
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:36.280
Check out more of them. If
you have any comments about this film at

510
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:42.039
all, please leave them. You
can message us at www dot a film

511
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.760
by podcast dot com, or let
us know what you think on social media

512
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:57.440
and for everyone else, check you
on the flip side.