1976 - Taxi Driver

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Listen, you screwheads. Here is
a man who would not take it anymore,

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who would not let Here's a man
who would not take it anymore,

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a man who stood up against the
scum, the dogs, the filth,

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the shit. Here is someone who
stood up. Hello everybody, and welcome

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back to nineteen seventy six. It's
a limited series from a film by podcast.

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We are taking a look at some
of the iconic films of the year

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nineteen seventy six. We're waxing intellectual
about him. We're talking behind the scenes,

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some words that matter and underrated moments. Joining me today back to give

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us an education on seventy cinema.
Andy, tom Andy, Welcome, Hey,

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thanks for having me. You know, so we've talked Rocky, We've

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talked Assault on Precinct thirteen. And
if there was one movie I was really

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looking forward to discussing with you,
it's today's. So let's talk a little

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bit about taxi driver. Oh yeah, animals come out at night some day,

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real round, come and watch allwasts
come off the streets. You're talking

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to me, talking to me,
Well, I'm the only one here.

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You're only as healthy as you feel. You're only as healthy as you're feel

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Paul Schrader writes this script in ten
days, and he's not exactly in the

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healthiest state of mind. I don't
know if you know this, Andy.

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He gets fired from the AFI,
his wife leaves him. He's making very

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little money as a critic, and
he ends up finding work as a delivery

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driver, and he's driving so constantly
it's basically he's living in his car.

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He's not sleeping. He starts going
to porno theaters at night. He develops

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ulcers and realizes that the er nurse
is the first person he's spoken with.

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In three to four weeks, Paul
Schrader has become Travis Bickle. Yeah,

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no, I heard that. I
heard the parallels. Yeah, he's apparently

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getting into guns, and I guess
he previously served in Vietnam or something like

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that. There's so many parallels with
the guy and I and yeah, and

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he was going through a breakup with
his new girlfriend or something. I just

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know. Yeah, that's right,
really bad way. He was a really

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bad way I've heard. So,
Yeah, it's amazing that someone in that

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kind of a situation can create something
like taxi driver. Correct me if I'm

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wrong. Did he write Rolling Thunder
too. I don't know. I Rolling

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Thunder is a very similar movie with
you know, that type of guy out

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to get people back, you know
kind of thing. Actually, yeah,

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he uh he wrote he wrote that
for for John Flynn. I think of

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him. And who was Heywood Gold
Roll Rolling Thunder Tommy Lee Jones and William

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Devane movie. Yeah, yeah,
a great one. I saw that out

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here at Quentin Steeter. But yeah, it was a that's a great movie

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too. It absolutely is. Uh
So Scorsese, you know, if ten

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days is impressive to shoot this,
to write this movie, Scorsese shoots it

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in eight weeks. He assumes it
won't make any money. You know,

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it's a labor of love. He's
he's called it a labor of love with

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DeNiro because he recognized their chemistry while
they're a film in nineteen seventy three is

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Mean Streets. So this is the
movie where he kind of lets de Niro

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develop, you know, it gives
him a little more freedom to explore the

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character. Ultimately, he goes on
to say that Raging Bull is their best

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collaboration, but I think it might
be this. I don't know, what

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do you think? I agree?
I agree, and funny. It's funny

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that we both talked about Assault on
Precinct thirteen, and I kind of make

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the argument where I feel that's personally
my favorite Carpenter film, although you can

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argue that the Thing is his better
film, or you know, because it's

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just more of a generally accepted good
film, is the Thing as opposed to

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Assault. But for some reason I
like Assault better, the grittiness, the

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cheaper budget. And I feel the
same way about this as that, you

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know, Good Fellows are you know, might be their big magnum opus.

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But for some reason I really leaned
towards this. I like the scale down

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version, although Goodfellows is a masterpiece
still get me wrong, Oh yeah,

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but there's something about this film that
I really enjoy. If there's one film,

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like when I think seventies grittiness,
I always think Taxi Driver first,

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and it's probably because you know,
he's shooting this in seventy five during the

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famous garbage strike, so the city
looks disgusting and grimy and full of trash,

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and it's I mean, you want
to talk about set dressing. You

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know, it's always nice when it's
free, you know, you know what's

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fun. So I you know,
I'm a lot older than you, and

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I guess in seventy six, I
was ten, and we used to take

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because I grew up like an hour
and change out of the city outside of

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Manhattan, and we would take class
trips into the city. And so I

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got to experience the seventies New York
City in small doses, in small doses,

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and I remember our chaperones, our
teachers would always say like, you

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know, stay on the main streets, do not go off the side streets.

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And I was always You're scared to
death as a little kid. You're

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thinking somebody's just gonna drag me into
an alleyway and just kill me, and

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you know, take my money.
And it was always like, if somebody

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wants your money, just give it
to them. It was all these little

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warnings, you know, it's like, oh wow, it was really scary.

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And when you get off the we'd
get off a forty second and Broadway

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and they would be those Oh I
forget the black Israelite guys. I don't

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know they're not around anymore. Because
I used to work in Manhattan and I

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worked there for like seven years.
I used to work in the city and

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it was all cleaned up by then. But but before then, and those

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guys are going, these black Israelite
guys, and they'd stand on the corner

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with these they look like superheroes,
with these big staffs, and they'd be

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yelling at everybody. It was scary. It was a scary scene, you

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know. And I didn't live there, but like I said, small doses,

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I kind of under stand how frightening
the city could be. I would

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have to say, this is this
is the scariest New York City I've ever

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seen in any movie. I mean, it's terrifying. I love the I

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love the fact that de Niro actually
drove a cab in New York City for

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weeks to prepare for the role.
I don't know if you ever heard this

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story. It's fantastic. Scorsese talks
about it on the Taxi Driver Blu Ray

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on his commentary He you know,
in nineteen seventy five, de Niro still

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mostly not recognized despite recently winning the
Oscar for The Godfather Part two. But

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one of his fairs was a struggling
actor who did recognize him, and he's

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like, oh my god, you're
You're Robert de Niro. You just won

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the Academy Award. Are things really
this bad? This tough for actors?

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And Deaniro just looks in the mirror
and says, yeah, I love that,

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man. I didn't know that.
That's great. Yeah. Yeah,

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And credit credit to him too,
because you know, he Columbia gets de

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Niro and Scorsese as a package deal
after watching Mean Streets and this is uh,

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this is before The Godfather Too comes
out. So now he hits it,

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hits big, you know, and
then he gets the the Academy Award,

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so they're worried he's going to back
out due to the small that the

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very small amount of money they offered
him. But he honors the agreement and

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doesn't ask for more money. So
I thought that was really cool of him.

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Yeah. What thirty five grand I
think, right, Yeah, thirty

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thirty five thousand dollars for an Academy
Award winning actor. That's that that just

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doesn't happen, you know. Yeah. And I heard he studied like the

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Midwestern accent for quite a while just
to nail it. I I can't pick

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I can't pick it out. I
can't tell you know, but you know,

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I mean, I grew up in
the Midwest, so I don't.

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I don't watch Taxi driver and here, yeah I heard, I heard it

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near. I don't hear like you
know, my buddies, you know what

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I mean. So I don't know
if he did it, you know,

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you know, maybe he made an
effort. I don't know. I don't

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And again I don't know where he
was coming from before that, so maybe

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he he needed to ditch another accent. But let's talk about a couple other

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Let's talk about a couple more actors
in this. This one always blows my

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mind because we kind of briefly discussed
this this situation when we covered The Bad

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News Bears for our nineteen seventy six
episode. But Jodie Foster in the role

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of Iris, which you know,
you could argue made her career as a

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as a dramatic actress. So originally
she's cast as Amanda opposite Walter Mathow in

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The Bad News Bears, and Columbia
goes after Tatum O'Neill, they offer her

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the role of Iris. She turns
it down, complaining that it's too small

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of a role for and half jokingly
says that she'd be better off playing Travis

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Bickele and and turns it down,
so she goes after Bad News Bears years

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Yeah, exactly be talking, you
know, the nerve of this this young

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woman. But no, she sees
she starts circling Bad News Bears and they

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immediately released Jody Foster so they can
get Tatum O'Neil. And what's Jodi Foster

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do? She goes, Okay,
well I'll go over and i'll read for

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this one. Uh, and she
gets She gets a taxi driver, which

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I couldn't imagine anyone else playing this
role all the times I've seen it,

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you know, because there's we got
to remember every young actress from Brook Shields

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to Michelle Pfeiffer read for it,
and Jody was actually the third choice.

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First they had Tatum O'Neil, and
then they're looking at Linda Blair and ultimately

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she went she wins the role.
Yeah, she's freakishly mature and and she

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is literally twelve and a half or
something when they move it, I guess,

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and it is. It's weird.
There's this weird thing. You know,

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since I'm out here in Hollywood area
and you do run across kids that

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have been in in films and they
have this weird maturity like me at twelve.

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Shit, man, I was into
like, you know, hot wheels,

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and yeah, I know these kids, they're just so mature. And

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even her voice is like deeper,
you know, it's just really it's perfect.

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She's perfect casting, you know.
And I don't know how Linda Blair

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would have done. You know,
I can't picture her at that age.

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The Exorcist was made, what was
that seventy five or something, I don't

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know, seventy two, seventy three. It was early seventies, okay,

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but yeah, she might have been
okay, but yeah, Jodie was perfect.

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Yeah. It's funny you say that
because you know I'm right there with

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you at twelve years old. I'm
I'm still righting my mongoose. You know,

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I'm playing in the woods. I
got g I Joe's. When you

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watch her and you know that she's
twelve, twelve years old filming this,

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it's mind blowing because she she cares
herself like a thirty year old in the

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movie exactly so Sybil Shepherd as Betsy
and Albert Brooks as Tom. Here's where

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the I always love. I always
love the little behind the scenes stories when

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it comes to who gets who gets
cast and how they get cast. Columbia

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is actively looking for what they are
calling a Sybil Shepherd type. And when

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Sybil Shepherd's agent, here's this,
I think her name was Sue Ingers She

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she contacts him and says, why
are you looking for a Sibil Shepherd type

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when you could just ask Sybil Shepherd? But I don't know. She's adorable

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in the movie. I love her, but apparently she had a lot of

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there's a lot of friction with her
and de Niro on on set. Yeah,

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you know, he claimed. You
know, the story I heard was

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she was having trouble with her lines, you know, getting her lines right.

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You know, she's giggling, she's
laughing, she's having fun. He's

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there to work. And uh,
I did hear that. I did to

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hear that in the specifically the pie
scene when they're yeah with the cheese on

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it. I heard. I think
there was a little some issues there,

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but uh yeah, I think she
pulled it off. I think she's I

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could look, I'm sure you know
there's been there. I think they were

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once heard there were like two hundred
and fifty people that were considered for her

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part. Yeah, which is outrageous. And the names that are thrown out

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there. It's just ridiculous, you
know, Eliza Minnelli and I can't even

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go. You know. Yeah,
some different people considered, but ultimately she

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has that weird strength of character in
her face. No, she doesn't.

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She's not cheap, is she?
She pulls off the New Yorker, the

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tough New Yorker. I don't know. I think she's she's she's great.

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I mean, she's I think she
I could see her role given to somebody

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else, though, you know,
it's not like there's nobody else that could

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do that. Yeah, but yeah, she was fine. I like that.

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Yeah, you're right. Well,
you're right, like if you had

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a sad card in nineteen seventy five
you were reading for the role of Betsy,

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and uh, I don't know.
I think she conveys there's a playful

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innocence about her. But I also
believe I believe her as like a you

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know, a political activist, you
know, working for this campaign. You

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know, she has And it's odd
because we talked about Jodie Foster's maturity.

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Sybil has it too, but a
little bit less. I must feel like

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she's a little more playful, a
little more innocent than than Jodi Foster's character,

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but nevertheless I love her in the
film. Albert Brooks. Interestingly enough,

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he's given the role of Tom because
Scorsese and Trader are having conversations and

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they're like, hey, this movie
is really dark, it's really serious.

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It could use a little bit of
levity. And Scorsese said, let's get

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a comedian to play Tom. So
while he's not you know, up there

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doing jokes and making you laugh,
he's he's got some fun. Like his

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delivery I think is real fun,
like with you know, when he's arguing

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with the person on the phone about
the buttons, you know, and the

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the misrepresentation. You know, he's
fun. I like seeks people are we

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are the people? Are we are
the people? Yeah, well let's get

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it straight. We do not pay
for the buttons. We throw them in

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the trash. Yeah. I heard
his Uh that role got expanded because I

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guess they just liked his work,
you know. And he's I think,

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is this his first film? I
want to say, this is uh one

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of it might be his debut,
yeah, because he I know he had

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done he had been doing stand up
comedy. But I don't know if he

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had done. I don't know if
he had a feature film at this point,

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so he's not the first choice for
Tom obviously. Marty calls his his

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buddy Harvey Kayitel up and says,
hey, I want you to be in

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this movie. You know you're working
on your campaign, manager Kitel says.

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He looks at the script. He
says, nah, I want to be

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Matthew. I want to be the
pimp sport. I'll tell you someone,

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I thought this was fun. This
was a fun one. I'm I'm kind

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of set, like I know this
now. I'm kind of sad that it

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didn't happen. But uh, Catherine
Scorsese, who we know. She always

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played the mom character and in all
of his later movies like Casino, Goodfellas,

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you know, Lovely Woman. She
actually had a role in this as

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ah as Iris's mother and she all
she also was his first his first fair

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Oh but yeah, I'm trying to
remember, well you will you you You're

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not gonna remember her because he cut
it. Oh. The first person that

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Travis Bickle picks up is a woman
with shopping bags played by Martin Scorsese's mother,

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Catherine Scorsese, and ultimately the movie
was running long. He didn't feel

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like he needed the scene, so
so he cut it. But uh,

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I guess he made it up to
her because she has she's she's so memorable

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and goodfellas. You know. Cut
one's looking the one way, it's looking

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the other way. Yeah, why
don't you settle down? I settled down

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and hopost every night. Ma doumb
back up. Yeah, we go off

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on that. We could, man, we could, But I'll tell you

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what. Let's uh, I guess
his dad's in there too. I guess

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the photo in the paper at the
end is what you referenced. Uh yeah,

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the newspaper article, that's his dad
as well. So his mom and

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dad are in that. I wonder. So I know we're jumping ahead,

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but at the end of the film
and there's the cameras panting across the the

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newspaper articles and the uh the letter
that Iris's parents wrote wrote Travis, and

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the voiceover. I wonder, is
that Martin's dad doing the voiceover? I

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mean, I know the photo in
the newspaper and thank you for help.

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And it's funny the way he reads
it too. It's really stunted, like

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like the way Travis is reading his
journal it's it's written and he the way

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he's read it's very it's very stunted. I have some theories that I'll go

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into later on. But yeah,
okay, anyway, the big the big

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ask is is that Morton Scorsese real
father reading that? I doubt it.

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It could be, though, I'll
tell you what. Let's uh, We're

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gonna take a quick break to hear
from the sponsors and then we'll be back

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00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:56.839
with Andy Tom and more. Taxi
driver in just a minute. Fire places.

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00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:03.000
Well, my signals, wells over. It's that one in the season

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00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:30.119
we all find some Peason toys.
We are back. Andy Tom is with

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us. We're talking Taxi driver.
Andy, let's talk a little bit about

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Bernard Hermon for a minute. What
what tell me your thoughts on this?

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On this score, it's amazing.
I mean, you see, I think

247
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I showed you before the before we
started talking here, uh, is that

248
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I have the soundtrack on vinyl and
it's you know, I'm sure you're gonna

249
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you know that it's his last thing
he did right before he died. He

250
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:04.200
actually what like to to a day
or two after you maybe maybe two days

251
00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.160
before he completes this, This soundtrack
but yeah, and in the liner notes

252
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of this vinyl, because I looked
over it when we were about to do

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this the show, the the liner
notes say, this is really neat little

254
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factoid is that? Ah in the
end of when when Travis picks up Uh

255
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talk about Betsy at the end,
Betsy at the end and he drops her

256
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:41.079
off on the on the sidewalk.
Uh. Martin specifically asked Bernard for a

257
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different sting, like some type of
little musical sting to to punctuate that moment,

258
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because this is just this is the
big moment. And so Bernard threw

259
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in some xylophone, little xylophone trill
and Bernard and then of course he was

260
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talking to him on the phone and
he says, hey, uh, yeah,

261
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that xiophone was nice, but I
wanted it to be a little more

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unsettling, like I wanted because this
is it's not everything's not perfect, you

263
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know. And Bernard said, play
it backwards, and that was He says,

264
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those are the last three words he
said to him, and then he

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died that night. Yeah, And
so I went and listened to the and

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it is it's very odd. It
sounds it you can't tell it's a x

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iophone. But there is a little
sting where it kind of m hm.

268
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So if you if you listen for
that, you'll you'll see what I'm you'll

269
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know what I'm talking about it.
But it's right after he drops it off

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and he's driving away, he looks
in the rear view mirror and yeah,

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this is one of those scores that
when I saw it, you know,

272
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when I first saw a taxi driver
at a younger age, I didn't appreciate

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it for its brilliance. You know. Uh. He was Scorsese's only choice,

274
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you know. He gets connected to
him through Brian de Palma, you

275
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know, and on the phone he's
talking to him about you know, he's

276
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a huge fan of his work because
of his what he does on the Hitchcock

277
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films. He wants him to do
Taxi driver. Herman, who's never heard

278
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of him, just says, hey, I don't. I don't do car

279
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movies. And he said, who
whoa, whoa, it's not a car

280
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movie. He's like, just just
let me send you the script. He

281
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goes, all right, send me
the script and we'll I'll look, I'll

282
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take a look at it. But
he calls him back. He says,

283
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hey, you know I hear the
movie. It's all brass, there's no

284
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strings, and it will show the
strength of this character. It will show

285
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how hard he is. And I
gotta say, like, you know,

286
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when you when you know that and
you watch this movie and you hear all

287
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those brass instruments, it's it's Travis
Pickle, you know, even like the

288
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.319
slow jazz beats, you know,
slow jazz, it's you know, he's

289
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kind of referencing like loneliness, but
you know, jazz music can be volatile,

290
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just like Travis Pickle. I think
it's a perfect marriage of those sounds

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and that little sting that you're talking
about. It really it punctuates the whole

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the whole film. I think,
Yeah, I know, I know,

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I know some people just really aren't
fans of this soundtrack. I am.

294
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I like you said, I like
the pounding. When I when I think

295
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of New York in those times,
I always think of this brass, saxophones

296
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and stuff like that, because I
mean, I grew up watching Saturday Night

297
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Live. And what's the big instrument
you hear on when you see Saturday Night

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Live Live from New York? You
know, it's always a sax and sacks.

299
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The band fear. You know,
the punk rock New York's all right,

300
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if you like saxophones, it's it's
just embedded in New York. It's

301
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saxes and brass and stuff like that. So uh yeah, I think I

302
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think the score, uh it fits
perfect. I also think it's pretty incredible.

303
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This is a point in in cinema
where we don't have video cassette,

304
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you know, and Herman's in London. They're shooting this in America, so

305
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he's basically kind of cutting reels black
and white reels and shipping them over,

306
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and Herman's looking at it and saying, hey, this is how I hear

307
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it. This is what I'm gonna
do. The the the limitations on communication

308
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that they that they had to deal
with for this movie. It blows my

309
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.359
mind that it comes out the way
it does because it sounds like, you

310
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know, I'm with you. It's
it's an incredible soundtrack. It's you know,

311
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love the score, love everything about
it. Yeah. No, I

312
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I kind of understand the because I
don't know if I mentioned that. You

313
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know, I'm in animation. I'm
an animation director, and when I first

314
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got into the business, everything was
snail mail. Everything was slow when you

315
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.920
ship stuff to get it made over
seas and then they had retakes, they'd

316
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.720
have to mail it back and it
was a big I mean everything took forever.

317
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.400
You know. I'd do storyboards and
you'd have to get to the FedEx

318
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.440
before five, you know, before
the fed X closed, or you wouldn't

319
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.119
get it overnighted. And yeah,
so I understand the you know now I'm

320
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.440
like, how did we even do
any of this stuff? You know,

321
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.160
it's great, everything had to be
mailed, you know, somebody do a

322
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.359
soundtrack, They all right, we're
gonna mail or we'd have a corrier go

323
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over and pick it up and bring
it to the office. It was crazy.

324
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It makes you It makes you question
how how impatient we are nowadays.

325
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When you send someone a text or
an email and like it's been two minutes

326
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:23.839
and you're like, where are they? You know, I mean I couldn't

327
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:27.160
imagine the waiting, you know,
like, hey, I come up with

328
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.480
something really good, I'm gonna mail
it out and see what they say.

329
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.160
And then you're waiting several weeks just
to hear a yes or a no.

330
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That's andy. Let's talk a little
bit about the themes that this movie Tackles

331
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because really, I think self imposed
loneliness is the central theme of the movie

332
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when you look at someone like like
Travis Pickle, because you know, I

333
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.680
and I'm paraphrasing Schrader a little bit, I I you know, I watched

334
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.200
a great interview with him. But
you know, a character like Travis,

335
00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.920
they're not suffering the nightmare of their
surroundings. He's creating it. And if

336
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.480
you think about it, his world, you know, and I never really

337
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.000
picked up on this all the times
I watched it years ago, but Travis

338
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.039
Bickle is in a world that revolves
around two women that he's obsessed with and

339
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.759
he cannot have. And I think
once he realizes this, you know,

340
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.279
he sets out to kill their father
figures, you know, because in his

341
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:22.160
world, there's no difference between a
politician and a pimp. You know,

342
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.319
you got you got Betsy who is
you know, I mean, if we

343
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.599
kind of take the Madonna and the
horror concept, you know, you've got

344
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:36.000
Betsy who is who is pure.
She's innocent, you know, she's idealistic,

345
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.880
and she's she's looking up to this
politician that she's trying to get elected

346
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:45.880
into office. And then you've got
Iris who is the exact opposite of everything

347
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:52.319
Betsy is and looks up to Matthew
this pimp. Ultimately, you know,

348
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.279
I think Travis Pickele, he's deemed
heroicue because he just happened to kill the

349
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:02.359
right one. Right, Yeah,
I here again, we'll go into this

350
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:07.559
in a little bit when I when
I lay out my theories. But when

351
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:10.519
you say hero, I don't think
he's a hero at all. I mean,

352
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:17.200
and I don't think I think he's
just he's an He's basically what we

353
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:19.720
modern day we call in cells,
you know, where we just can't get

354
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:27.480
that woman, and he's just evolving
into this like like today's day and age,

355
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:33.640
he would probably have a he just
probably log on onto some four Chan

356
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.920
website and he'd have a million other
people just like him and they could just

357
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.559
band together. But back then he
didn't have that type of stuff, so

358
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:45.839
he just sat and isolated himself and
just his mind just ate away at itself,

359
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.799
you know. So that's probably that's
I think that's what happened to in

360
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.559
cells back in those days. And
it's I totally get where he you know,

361
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.720
Look, it's funny because like if
you watch like death Wish there's so

362
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.039
many parallels you could draw with Death
Wish and and this movie in that New

363
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:04.359
York was a shithole back in those
days, and you could get frustrated with

364
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:11.000
you, you know, with the
crime and the freaks and the fairies and

365
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.400
the queens or whatever he said,
you know, I mean, there is

366
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:19.759
that group that just and what was
the guy Hinckley, Uh, you know

367
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:25.759
Hinckley. And but the other guy
shot up on the subway that Bernard named

368
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:27.519
Bernard something. I can't remember his
name, but that's all you time about

369
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:33.240
the subway, the subway shooter that
killed the Yeah. Yeah, so that

370
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.359
that sentiment was around. So,
I mean it was there's a stark realism

371
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.839
about Travis uh that people could relate
to. But then at one point,

372
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.079
at some point, you go,
a man, he's going a little too

373
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.119
far and it's getting a little scary, you know, so you're kind of

374
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.440
that's that's what you're kind of like
rooting for him. You're rooting for him.

375
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:55.640
You're rooting for him, and then
you're just like, wait, should

376
00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:00.039
I root for him? You know? I know? So yeah, well,

377
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.480
I mean so it's interesting because you
know, like like the movie,

378
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:08.400
you know, especially Iris' parents.
They make him out to be a hero.

379
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:14.119
I think he's maybe he's more of
an anti hero is what I would

380
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.000
consider him. You know, you
know, someone like someone like Paul Kersey

381
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.839
and Death Wish or even in real
life you know, you mentioned h Bernie

382
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:29.359
gets the subway shooter. You know, people that just they've had enough of

383
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.160
what they're what they're witnessing, and
then they just snap one day and uh

384
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.839
but you know, and it's like
you want to be you want to follow

385
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.720
Travis on his journey, but he
hits a point where you're like, Okay,

386
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.160
I'm can't. I can't do it. You know, like you know

387
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:47.240
when we get to underrated moments.
I want to talk a little bit about

388
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:51.799
like the last second where you're like
you're with him maybe because like he does

389
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:56.119
have that moment where he snaps and
he goes and confronts her at the campaign

390
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.640
office and you know, just gets
it gets real uncomfort, real fast,

391
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.720
and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, this guy I've been with,

392
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.039
I can't follow him anymore. Like
he you know, I can't.

393
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:10.039
I can't follow him at this point. He's he's lost it. Yeah,

394
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:15.519
it's funny you questioned Betsy's motive,
like why did she even go on a

395
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.319
date with this guy? Uh?
You know, and then it just proved.

396
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:23.519
He just proves I think she's just
like, I'm just ready for excitement.

397
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.680
I just want something exciting to happen
in my life, you know,

398
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.079
because the way he talks to her, and he's leaning over the desk,

399
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.119
it's kind of okay, he's got
some moves. You know. I think

400
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:36.759
you're lonely. I think you you
you look very lonely sitting here, which

401
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:41.279
I take that as just like like
a fortune teller bullshit. You know,

402
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.960
it's like that everybody, Oh you
you feel incomplete sometimes? Right? Well,

403
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.680
yeah, everybody does, you know. So it's he was just feeding

404
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.920
her line of shit. But then
she was just like, all right,

405
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:55.200
I'll give you a shot. And
then when it turns when he's sitting there

406
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.200
eating the pie, at least for
me, but she's still just when we're

407
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:03.279
eating the pie and he talks about
Albert Brooks's character, he's like, I

408
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.759
don't like him whatever. He's just
staring does this death stare at her?

409
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.359
Yeah, And she she's like,
I've never never met anybody but anybody like

410
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:17.599
you yet she continues to go out
with him, which that's the moment where

411
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.400
she's like, I'm scared of you. I'm scared to death. You're freaking

412
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.960
me out. But I'll go to
a movie, you know, to the

413
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.440
porn theater and you know we know
of that sort. But that, yeah,

414
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.359
that one, you get these little
hints of oh wait, he's kind

415
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.960
of dangerous, you know. Yeah, and then when he just blows his

416
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.519
cool when he runs back into the
campaign office and now you blew it,

417
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.000
buddy. Yeah. The the evolution
of his of his character, you know,

418
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.079
because he is a little he's coming
on strong when he when you know,

419
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.039
like you mentioned like he's he's leaning
on that desk. I feel like

420
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:56.480
he's got confidence though, yeah,
and just a little bit of charm.

421
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.440
And you're right. I think she's
kind of thinking like, hey, i

422
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.640
mean, Dan day out, she's
got she's got Albert Brooks, you know,

423
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.559
schmoozing up to her. And she
sees this guy and this is he's

424
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.119
like, he's the the anti Albert
Brooks, you know, and you know

425
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.880
he is a little bit of danger
But I think the red lights are are

426
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:16.079
in the pie scene where he's yeah, you're right, he's like, I

427
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.119
don't like that guy. I don't. I don't. I don't think he

428
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.519
should be right, and it's like, okay, okay, but and there's

429
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.960
something really charming in that, like
and it's also another creepy thing where he

430
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:32.720
goes to the porn theaters. He
goes and he's just like clueless, like

431
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.559
what's wrong with this? People couples
go to this. I see him all

432
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:38.880
the time, and it's weird that
he went, like because I guess the

433
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:43.920
first theater he goes into it's really
tiny, and I should mention that.

434
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.359
Like last week, Uh, there
was an article I don't know where I

435
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.880
saw it every online that LA has
one remaining porn theater and you're kidding me.

436
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:54.119
I thought these things were all gone. Yeah, I thought they were

437
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:58.400
all going too. And it's it's
this neat article about this guy. He's

438
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.359
like a guy from Ecuador or something
in East Hollywood, and it looked they

439
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:06.240
shot some a couple of shots from
inside and looked just like that theater it

440
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.440
was like maybe six seats wide and
really tiny and they just have it gone

441
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.839
twenty f I forget what the price
is, you know, twenty dollars for

442
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:20.200
two hours, or he's just there
and it looks just like that one.

443
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.920
But anyway, what's what's weird.
It's like he goes to those, but

444
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:29.039
he's not like it doesn't seem like
he's getting into it. You know,

445
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:32.880
he's just sitting there like just hollow, you know, So why is he

446
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.359
there? Like, I think he's
just he really wants that connection mm hmm

447
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:44.200
any humans, you know, I
don't. Yeah, you're absolutely right,

448
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:49.960
Like the loneliness that his character is
engulfed in, I think he's looking for

449
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.799
connection. I think he's just looking
for for human contact wherever you can get

450
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.119
it, whether it's sitting in a
diner where he meets up with the other

451
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.400
cabbies, or it's it's in a
creepy little porno booth you know that that

452
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:05.759
he goes too, because like I
mean, he's You're right, he's not

453
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:07.920
there for the movies. He's there
just to be around people. You know,

454
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:13.400
you got Like I always think about
how hard he's trying not to hit

455
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.960
on the girl the concession stand.
He's just wanting to talk and have a

456
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:20.159
conversation, you know, and she's
obviously not having it. She's like,

457
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.360
hey, you want me to get
the manager. He's like, oh,

458
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.199
whoa, whoa, just you know, and then he buys like, you

459
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:28.880
know, four boxes of candy and
a RC and you know, popcorn.

460
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.039
It's like, you don't, you're
not you're not buying concessions when you go

461
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:36.360
to a theater like that, at
least I wouldn't think so. But uh,

462
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:39.559
dollar eighty five for all that,
you know, you know that yeah,

463
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.039
oh yeah, yeah, that was
a that was the dinarest girlfriend wasn't

464
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.920
at the time or something. She
was his love interest in King of Comedy

465
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.440
as well. Oh I gotta,
I gotta go back and watch that.

466
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.599
Then uh I miss that, but
uh you know, back to that,

467
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:58.960
like that that Madonna and the whore
concept. It's almost like he's not that

468
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.760
he's intentionally doing it, but it's
almost like he's taking Betsy, you know,

469
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:06.519
Sybil Shepherd's character, who is pure
and innocent and and all this,

470
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:10.159
and he's kind of he's kind of
trying to twist her into something a little

471
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:14.960
more seedy and a little more like
part of his world. And of course

472
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.840
she's she's uncomfortable, she's she's offended, and she's out of there. But

473
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.159
definitely a great scene because it's not, you know, even in that moment,

474
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:23.679
like, I'm like, you know
what he's not. It's not that

475
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:28.639
he's being he's a creep for taking
her there, but it's not that he

476
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.159
was intentionally trying to be a creep. He was just trying to, oh,

477
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:35.400
hey, this is what people do. Okay. Great? And and

478
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.840
I think it speaks volumes to how
he treats Iris because it's the exact opposite

479
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:45.639
approach, because he sees her in
that that horror existence and he wants to

480
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.199
get her out. He wants to
turn her into the Madonna. So I

481
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.400
love the I love the back and
forth that that he has with the two

482
00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:59.119
female leads in this. Mh.
I'm sure you know. Another factoid is

483
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:04.480
that the character that Iris is based
on, she's in the movie. She's

484
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.199
the one who grabs Iris from getting
run over in the street. Yeah you're

485
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.639
talking about what her name is,
Garth I think right, okay, Garth

486
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:17.440
Avery, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently she was a young prostitute and

487
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:22.760
uh that's who they used for research
purposes. So yeah, I dig the

488
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.920
fact that, you know, anytime
they get someone like that, they're like,

489
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:28.920
hey, just you know what come
be in the movie. You know

490
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.280
right, because it's it's such a
small scene because obviously it's like, this

491
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.280
is Iris's friend. But then when
you do the homework and you're like,

492
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:37.840
oh wow, that's it's kind of
sad too, because it's like, here's

493
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:44.159
a real teenage prostitute in New York
City that you know she's involved because she

494
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:46.199
has the experience, she has,
she can she can inform Jodie Foster on

495
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:50.599
how to how to make this character
correct. Andy, I want to talk

496
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.679
you know. You you kind of
hinted at some theories you have about taxi

497
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:57.039
driver. You know, let's let's
uh, let's let's hear what you got.

498
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.119
Well, it's not it's nothing unusual. And you've probably I'm sure you've

499
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.519
heard it. It's that I I
he dies at the end. Man,

500
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:10.400
it's he has to once once I
heard this and I can't. I can't

501
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:14.519
look at the film any other way. And I've watched it many times since

502
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.039
I heard this. Is that when
he's sitting on the couch, he's got

503
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.239
that mortal neck wound, he's you
know, and he wanted to kill himself.

504
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:28.599
And then the camera does the they
call it the Priests shot or the

505
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:30.639
God shot, where it just kind
of floats above him. Oh yeah,

506
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:35.760
yeah, it floats out. So
he at that moment he dies on the

507
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:37.639
couch. This is what I'm saying, because he dies on the couch and

508
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:43.159
it floats out and it's an arrow
shot. And then all those bullshit articles

509
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.039
about him being such a hero,
which is crazy to even consider that.

510
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:51.400
Why is he a hero? It's
it's a it's a brutal killing of what

511
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:57.159
these people. They're not. Everyone
is like whatever. So he killed all

512
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.920
those people, and and and he
gets the letter which is, oh,

513
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.719
everything's Punky Dory, our daughter back
home, and everything wrapped up in a

514
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.239
nice little bow. He picks up. You know, hey, you have

515
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.119
a fair pops in all their Sybil
Shepherd she's driving away and everything. And

516
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.400
he's just so cool. He's cool
as ice. He doesn't even make a

517
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:23.360
fool of himself. He drops her
off, right, So that makes no

518
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.840
sense. Also, he says,
okay, So at one point, I

519
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.039
think it's when I keep saying,
I keep thinking Palpatine from Star Wars.

520
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:37.599
But Palatine, Palatine or whatever,
Charles Pelatine. Yeah, given a speech,

521
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:42.320
but there's a voice over and he's
saying it's July, right, established

522
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.400
it, he's running in July.
So he picks up Sybil Shepherd. So

523
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:52.320
let's say the killings take place maybe
in July or whatever or sometime around there.

524
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.519
So in the summer he picks her
up and she says, hey,

525
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:04.719
congratulations on him getting the nomination,
and she's like, yeah, only seventeen

526
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.880
more days I'm assuming for the election. So this puts that right of November.

527
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:13.199
Yeah, from July to November,
he shaved his head and now his

528
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:19.000
hair is completely grown back. Right, oh, overthinking this shit, No,

529
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.519
you're onto something here, man.
How does his hair grow completely back

530
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:25.639
out? And it's completely style.
He's healthy again in a matter of just

531
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:30.800
a couple of months. So everything
wrapped up too nicely. His hair got

532
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:35.000
back and everything's fine. His buddies
are all. It just made so,

533
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:42.320
and I know I know that what's
his name the screenwriter and Paul Schrader,

534
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.239
and of course he both say,
no, that's not our intention. But

535
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:47.039
if you want to read it that
way, fine, and that's the way

536
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.519
I read it. It's gotta be
okay. So so the Andy Tom take

537
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:58.119
is that the end of Taxi Driver, he dies on the couch and like

538
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:00.559
that that moment, you know,
flashing before as as he's dying, it's,

539
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.840
you know, life flashing before his
eyes. He's seeing, he's getting

540
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.039
the ending that he thinks he deserves
exactly. It's oh, I never thought

541
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.559
about that, dude. Everything is
too perfect. It's too oh. He's

542
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:17.000
a hero and everyone looks up to
him now and and the family thanks him

543
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.239
for all his wonderful And here's another
thing. Is when it's read by like

544
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.840
I said, where is that really? Score says, it's read in that

545
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:32.199
same staccato like halting who that he
reads his journal? Do you know what

546
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:39.480
I mean? Yeah, read that
same halted flow. I know I'm overthinking

547
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:43.000
it, but now I don't think
you are. Man. I think you've

548
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:46.960
just you've just uh, you just
convinced me that the ending of taxi driver

549
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:52.239
is something completely different, because I
never I never even thought about that.

550
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:57.119
And now now you've dropped all the
pieces in place. It's it's too perfect,

551
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.440
you know. And right like you
we talked about him, like when

552
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:06.679
he's reading his journal, he has
it's like that stunted way of speaking he

553
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:10.000
has. The guy is doing that, the voice of over guy's doing that

554
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.960
too. I think you got it, you know, I think you got

555
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.320
it, and maybe, like I
looked at I researched this though, I

556
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:20.960
looked at and and like I said, Store says, He's like, no,

557
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.840
he sounded like completely dumbfounded. No, no, it's not what we

558
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.280
intended really did. Then, I
don't know, man, because did you

559
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.559
really think that he's a hero that's
also sending a really shitty message? Right?

560
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.400
Well? Yeah, because he I
mean the guys he kills are scumbags.

561
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.800
But at the same time, I
mean, the guy was just a

562
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.920
timekeeper, right, the guy who
he was it, the guy who he

563
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.360
blew his fingers off, you know, Oh, the guy that's like kind

564
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.880
of running the run of the brothel. Yeah, I think I think it's

565
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.360
I think he's credited as the timekeeper
or something, right, I don't Yeah,

566
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:57.880
So I mean, is he really
that horrible a dude? I guess.

567
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.280
I mean, he's part and parcel
of the whole hooker thing. But

568
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.280
he's I mean, he's part of
that. You know, when when Travis

569
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:08.599
talks about that rain that will wash
him all away, he's Yeah, I

570
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:12.239
guess he's part of that thing that
needs to be washed away. I don't

571
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.559
know, But man, are you
saying that that John's that John's pick up

572
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.280
hookers deserve a bullet iner head,
you know, I mean, I don't

573
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:23.639
know. And then he's a hero
for it. Yeah wow. I know.

574
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:29.440
Well even even when I think about
Iris in that moment, she is

575
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:36.119
absolutely terrified and screaming and she's hiding
from him. So everything this theory that

576
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:38.840
you've got that you're there, you're
posing. I think I think it's on

577
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:44.119
the money. And maybe if you
know, if if this is you know,

578
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:45.960
if Scorsese and Paul Schrader have had
to have to speak to this,

579
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:51.559
I almost wonder if it's a situation
where they gotta you know, they're like

580
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.559
they're thinking, well, we didn't
think of that, but that's that makes

581
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:57.719
sense and it's better, and maybe
they just want to you know, they

582
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.440
throw the credit out there. I
don't know shit with that that camera move

583
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.599
where the camera floats above the cops, it floats away, you know,

584
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.679
it doesn't etherial movement, you know
that out of body experience. Bro,

585
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:13.079
I think you got it. Man. I kind of want to go back

586
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.559
and watch Taxi Driver again, like
immediately, just to watch it with that

587
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:21.320
with that ending. Now, that's
that's that's incredible. Man, I don't

588
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:24.960
know, I and I know,
uh, this movie over time, I

589
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:29.719
guess it got some heat because of
Hinkley obviously, you know, Yeah,

590
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.000
the story goes h Hinkley side of
this as like inspiration, Yeah, to

591
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.559
assassinate Reagan, and you know it's
all for Jodie Foster apparently. Yeah,

592
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.440
this is on a list of like
the most dangerous films of all time.

593
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:46.639
And yeah, I mean you can
be you know, January sixth guy,

594
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.039
and and this this is like your
fuel, like, well, you're not

595
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.000
going to put up with any more
bullshit, you know. Oh yeah,

596
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.920
that's that can be the attitude if
you go into it like that. But

597
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.760
it's not that just like death Wish
Jeff with is not you know, I'm

598
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.480
not trying to open up another can
of Warrens. But it's the same thing.

599
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:09.039
It's Bronson's not really a hero,
you know, He's just a result

600
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:15.480
of you know, some bad choices. Yeah, well yeah, Bronson,

601
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:22.320
he's a damaged individual who's reacting to
the the situation, right like you know,

602
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:28.239
and I buy I buy Paul Paul
Kursey murdering you know, scumbags after

603
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:31.599
what happens to his wife and daughter
makes a lot more sense than Travis Bickle

604
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.159
just seeing people that are in a
situation that they choose to be in and

605
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.360
and wanting to wanting to create a
better situation for him because you know,

606
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:45.800
there's that there's that scene. You
know, if you think about de Niro

607
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.119
is pretty much in every single scene
in this film, with exception like one

608
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.519
or two, and one of them
is the that that tender I hate to

609
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:53.400
say the word, I hate to
use the word tender, but it's like

610
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:59.880
a tender moment between Harvey Keitel and
Jodi Foster, where you see that he's

611
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:02.920
not holding her against his her will, he's not abusive, he's not treating

612
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:06.920
her bad. Really, he's you
know, they have that that that that

613
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.480
dance, and he's kind of coveting
her, and it's it's as sweet as

614
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:14.280
it is sick, you know,
because then your your your brain tells you

615
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:19.079
she's she's an underage prostitute. She's
in a bad situation, so you you

616
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:21.519
know, and it kind of reinforces, like you want Matthew, you want

617
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:25.519
something bad to happen to him,
even if he's not truly being evil to

618
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.559
her, you know what I mean? Right right, Yeah, this is

619
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.480
this is a I don't know if
I guess you'd consider good Fellas, No,

620
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.119
you wouldn't. I don't know.
But this is his one first person,

621
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:43.639
uh first person film where every scene
does involve Travis except I think that

622
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.920
dance scene and I'm trying to think. I think maybe when Albert Brooks and

623
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:52.199
Sybil Shepherd are talking and oh yeah, so I guess there's another one where

624
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:58.079
it's not from Travis's POV or you
know, where he would kind of experience

625
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.480
that. But no, I was
gonna say that would be the one because

626
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:07.800
they have that moment inside campaign headquarters. But interestingly enough, in both situations,

627
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:13.519
Travis is outside the building, you
know, because you get that moment

628
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:15.920
where he's we see Travis in the
cab with the camera kind of pans up

629
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.360
to the window, and then we're
inside the apartment with with Iris and Sport,

630
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:23.840
so you know he's out there watching, waiting, just like he is.

631
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:27.400
Uh you know, because Albert Brooks
is like, you know, I

632
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.599
think it's well, it's Sybil Shepherd
that notices him first and she's like,

633
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:32.639
look this guy, he's out here, and Albert Brooks takes that moment to

634
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:35.519
be, you know, try and
look like a tough guy, like you

635
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:37.559
know, I'm gonna get rid of
me, you know. And I think

636
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:44.760
there's another thing that reinforces my theory
that where when she had when when Jodie

637
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.800
Foster has a little dance scene with
there's no there's no cracks in her armor

638
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:52.119
where you think like she wants to
get out of this situation, you know

639
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:57.639
what I mean, Like she's not
there is. Although now I'm thinking when

640
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:00.320
she does get in a cab,
well, here's when she gets into cab

641
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:05.639
and then Sport grabs her and pulls
her out, crumples up that twenty and

642
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:14.519
drops it on his past. Cool. Yeah, that okay, So this

643
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:17.440
is what I really think it's brilliant
about that, Like if this movie were

644
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:25.599
handled what I okay, So the
way Scorsese scored this with with Herman's score,

645
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:34.079
is that right there in a modern
filmmaker's hands, he would added like

646
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:37.639
this this ominous you know, like, oh man, he just saw the

647
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:42.920
guy that he hates. And that's
yeah, I really I paid attention to

648
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:47.400
this because when she when he pulls
her out of the cab, that drama

649
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.719
happens, and then we cut the
near and he's looking in the rear view

650
00:47:52.800 --> 00:48:00.519
or however they played it out.
It's just that sacks normal New York and

651
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:06.519
it just plays, and I think
that's that's Score says. He's saying,

652
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.679
like, hey man, this is
crazy New York. Shit happens. And

653
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:15.599
it wasn't like he didn't telegraph like
the story is ultimately going to end with

654
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:20.960
this guy and a confrontational sport and
iris it's just Travis was just like,

655
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.199
yeah, some more shitheads in New
York. He drives away. So it

656
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:27.360
wasn't a big moment, and I
thought that was brilliant way to handle that.

657
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:30.079
He didn't he didn't set it up
like this is big drama. This

658
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.440
is just like and then when he
does eventually see her again, it's just

659
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.840
by chance, you know. So
he wasn't like hunting her down and they

660
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:39.039
just happened to run across her again, and then that kind of planted some

661
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:43.079
seeds in his head. But at
that moment, it wasn't no big deal.

662
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:46.119
It was just more craziness in New
York City, just another day,

663
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:52.039
right. And also yeah, and
also where the score where Martin knew not

664
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:57.239
to do it, is that in
that hallway when you know the big shootout

665
00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.519
at the end. M h,
I fucking own music. It's just silence,

666
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:06.320
and it's just the creepiest, most
horrific thing, Like it would have

667
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.480
been so ruined if you would have
just had all this dramatic music playing.

668
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:14.800
Don't drums, there's nothing. It's
silence, and it's almost it's horrifying.

669
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:19.559
It's scary because it's real, like
like especially the way he filmed when he

670
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.679
when he did shoot Sport. You
know, it's like you're almost like a

671
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:28.760
guy sitting on the stoop across the
street and just watching this shit unfold.

672
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:30.920
And he gets shot in the stomach, which is the most horrifying. It's

673
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:35.800
funny because I watch a lot of
like the old movies from the fifties and

674
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.719
stuff, and they're like eight l
sucker already shoots it the gun and they

675
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.119
die instantly. They get shot in
the stomach and they're dead, Like that's

676
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.679
not the way it would happen.
And the way k Tell goes down,

677
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:47.880
he's like holding on trying to stay
up right. Oh oh, and it's

678
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:52.760
just his gut. You can almost
feel that impact and like from the pov

679
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:58.320
of sitting across the street and then
he just kind of Travis kind of walks

680
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.239
to the left screen life and then
he like just sits on a stoop.

681
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:07.440
He's in no hurry, stark realism
and no music. It's it's not cinema.

682
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:14.320
It's not cinematic in any any regard. And in the lack of music,

683
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.280
especially in that hallway, seeing the
lack of music, it puts you

684
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:21.400
in that moment, you know,
like you're you're trapped in that hallway and

685
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:24.000
you're uncomfortable. You know, one
thing, and I you know, because

686
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.599
a big film, you know,
the part of my job is analyzing shots

687
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:35.400
in the way that things flow and
also sound to punctuate story. And there's

688
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:39.960
one really odd moment where he shoots
that guy's fingers off right and Sport is

689
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:45.320
behind him and takes a couple of
shots. So the guy who got his

690
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:50.639
finger shot off speechless, not one
word out of his mouth. So all

691
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:52.960
the shit goes down. Boom,
he shoots Sport again, Boom, shoots

692
00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:59.320
him, walks over he's laying down
there, shoots him. Then the guy

693
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.960
with the fingers. Then you just
hear him going, I'm fucking killing killing

694
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.239
you, but he doesn't say a
word at all. It's really strange,

695
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:10.119
like looking back, like you would
think, right when you get your finger

696
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:13.920
shot off, you're like, oh
Jesus, oh my god. Yeah.

697
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:20.480
So I don't know why that decision
was made. It's I guess maybe he

698
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:23.199
just wanted to focus on the interaction
between sport and and I don't know.

699
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.559
I don't know, but it's it's
something that I noticed just recently watching it.

700
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:32.519
So we gotta we gotta talk about
Travis Pickle's look. Uh, this

701
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:38.639
I thought was really cool. And
I'm talking about Travis Bickle once he's transitioned

702
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:44.239
into you know who he's going to
become, you know, with the with

703
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:47.119
the mohawk. I've always wondered,
like you know, growing up aloys,

704
00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:51.719
like why why the mohawk? Why
does he shave his head? And this

705
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:58.280
is a fantastic story. Uh apparently, Uh, Travis Pickle's look was heavily

706
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:04.199
influenced by one Scorsese's friends named Vic
mcgnatta. You know, they went to

707
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.840
school together at Nycu. Uh.
This guy served in Vietnam and when he

708
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:16.159
came back he became a stuntman.
So Vix explaining that during Vietnam he would

709
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:22.559
see soldiers in Saigon getting mohawk haircuts, and it was apparently it was a

710
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.800
it was a signal that they were
heading out to do something quote unquote special.

711
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:29.360
Yeah I heard that too. I
think that's awesome, you know.

712
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.760
Yeah, yeah, and uh,
if you watch the movie too, the

713
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.960
way the way he slowly, the
way he reveals the mohawk, it's it's

714
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.960
just the way the camera pans up. I think he's taking oh yeah,

715
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.320
a pill or something. But you
it is. It is jarring when you

716
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:52.599
the first time you see that mohawk, like, whoa, I didn't know

717
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.800
you were going to do that,
you know, Like I think modern day

718
00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:00.079
sensibilities would show him like, you
know, staring into the mirror and shaving

719
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:05.239
his head while some dramatic music's playing. Yeah, just like oh so we're

720
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.480
going here now, and it's just
holy crap. You're just you're just you're

721
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.639
just shocked for a moment. And
I'm sure you know that it was a

722
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:15.320
bald cap. It was not,
oh yeah, which is outrageous because I

723
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.960
I mean, for years I thought
he just shaved his head. It just

724
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:22.559
looks so good. So well,
yeah, you were we got it's a

725
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.400
it's makeup artist Dick Smith, you
know legendary makeup artist Dick Smith, who

726
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:30.800
who creates that bald cap and makes
it look as realistic as it is.

727
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.320
Because I for years I just assume, you know, de Niro's a you

728
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:36.960
know, he's he's a method guy. He'll he'll shave his head, no,

729
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:40.480
no problem. But I guess he
had he was either he either had

730
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:44.800
to do pickup shots for another movie
or he was in pre production on a

731
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:47.960
movie getting ready for one. So
him shame and said was out. Yeah,

732
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:51.000
that's where I heard. I heard
it was for you know, pickup

733
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.920
shots and if you need if you
need to you know he shootout order or

734
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:57.880
anything like that. So Andy,
let's take one more break and when we

735
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:04.239
get back, we'll talk underrated moments
and words that matter. Here's a Space

736
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:07.719
age gift for kids from Radio Shack, the original Space Patrol walkie talking You

737
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:12.159
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a pair, and they really work.

738
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:16.679
They're crystal controlled and battery operated,
just like Dad's biggest CB units, and

739
00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:22.440
they're built in Radio shacks own electronics
factory. So this Christmas thrill you are

740
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:28.360
kids with a fourteen ninety five a
pair of Space patrol only at Radio Shack

741
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:38.559
attendcapany Andy, it is not your
favorite scene in the movie. It's not

742
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:43.280
in the trailer for the film,
but without it, the film is just

743
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:46.719
a little bit less. You have
an underrated moment that comes to mind for

744
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:52.880
taxi driver. Yeah, I think
I'm I think I'm cheating because this is

745
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:57.280
I know Martin's course says. He
says it's his favorite part, his favorite

746
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.519
scene. Well, let me let
me give that one because that's the easy

747
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:02.519
answer and it's my true answer.
And then I'll give one that's a little

748
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:07.639
more obscure. Is that you know, when he's on the phone after he

749
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:12.079
blew it with Betsy and he's,
oh, yeah, everybody knows that one

750
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:15.199
to see I'm not. Everybody's so
aware. No, this is this is

751
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:16.400
this is the moment I would choose. Yeah, I'll tell us about it.

752
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:20.440
Yeah, where he's on the phone
and he's trying to get her back

753
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.360
and kind of saying, you know, well, can we go out,

754
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:27.639
maybe you get some food, And
he's talking on a payphone in this scummy

755
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:32.719
apartment hallway, and the camera it's
it's held on him for just painful conversation

756
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:37.280
and it's really just cringe. You
just yeah, and just have him just

757
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.960
hang up, dude, and she
doesn't want you, and and the camera

758
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.559
kind of pans to the right and
goes down this empty hallway. It's just

759
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:51.039
and and Martin says that it's just
like even the camera was just too embarrassed.

760
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:52.800
I just just hold on him,
so it just had to pull away,

761
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:58.000
and it's it's cringe. And then
he just hangs up and then walks.

762
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:00.480
But it's it's it is really brilli
when you when you watch that,

763
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:04.800
because it holds on him for a
long time before it pans away, You're

764
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:06.320
like, oh, I want to
get out of here. I want to

765
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:07.199
get out of here. When the
camera starts to move away, you're like,

766
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:12.599
oh, thanks, you know.
So it's yeah, it's a that's

767
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:16.000
a that's a brilliant moment. But
also I want to say, well,

768
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:21.840
and a little more obscure one is. And Travis is starting to get up

769
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:25.320
his courage or however you want to
you know, I want to confront Sport

770
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:34.400
and when he goes up to UH
to pay for Iris' services and have a

771
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:37.039
little banter back and forth, and
it's kind of filthy the way he's saying

772
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.840
what she'll do for him for twenty
five bucks or whatever he paid. But

773
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:44.960
then he says, uh what does
he say? Says all right, copper,

774
00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:47.199
see you later, and he goes, what'd you call me? Oh?

775
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:52.239
Yeah him in sport. Yeah,
He's like officer, yeah, about

776
00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.719
entrapment. Good job, officer yeah, and that, and then he just

777
00:56:55.719 --> 00:57:04.159
stares at him a little too long
and and it's just awkward that that moment.

778
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.239
You're like, is he going to
go through with it? Is he

779
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:09.800
really gonna? Like? But he? I think Travis is unsure. He's

780
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:14.800
you know, it's kind of like
it. It's the same he's putting out

781
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:19.039
the same energy as the you're talking
to me, you know, Yeah,

782
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.440
it's that without any lines. He's
just staring a him. You know,

783
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:24.119
He's like, I'm hip. Are
you gonna look at it? Man?

784
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:29.639
Yeah? And that moment is so
tense and you just just turn away,

785
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:32.920
man, turn away. That's my
underrated moment right there. I know,

786
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:37.440
uh, I know that moment with
Harvey Cattel. It's not played for laughs.

787
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.440
He doesn't play it comedically, but
when you watch it like he is,

788
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:45.039
he's so fun to watch in that
moment because he's, let's he say

789
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:47.480
something about Cowboy. He goes on
Cowboy. He says, I had a

790
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:52.800
horse hit by a car. What
is he? Yeah, dude, he's

791
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.159
on a He's on another planet.
At that point, you know I love

792
00:57:55.199 --> 00:58:00.239
him in that minute, he's great, Yeah, what's yours? Yeah?

793
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:05.639
Well, I hate the I hate
to be uh like everybody else, But

794
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:08.760
for me, it's it's that painful
phone call like that you were talking about.

795
00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:14.519
It's like, I'm even watching it
recently. I'm like, I don't

796
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:20.000
want to sit here and listen to
this guy's desperation and just it's it's painful

797
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.960
to watch, you know, the
fact that he's the way he frames that

798
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:27.440
shot, even where you know you
would think he'd be center of the of

799
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.679
the shot, and he's he's off
to the right, and then we slowly

800
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:34.559
track past him and we we don't
hold on him at that point, we

801
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:39.039
just keep moving. And that that
hallway is just that empty hallway is is

802
00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:45.840
the conversation. It's like it represents
his his emptiness, his loneliness. It's

803
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:49.679
just it's painful. And that's to
me, that's that's the moment, like

804
00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:54.159
any any chance we had at liking
him and him being a good guy.

805
00:58:54.280 --> 00:59:00.920
It ended in that hallway, right, Yeah, tough one to watch.

806
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.559
Yeah, I agreed, Andy,
Let's talk words that matter, I think,

807
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.519
uh, you know, when we
talk about memorable memorable lines from this

808
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:13.119
movie and whether or not they're still
relevant, uh you know, you kind

809
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:15.800
of hinted at it, but uh, we we gotta we gotta say,

810
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:22.800
you know, it's it's got to
be you're talking to me. You're talking

811
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:27.280
to me, but who the hell
else are you talking? Talking to me?

812
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:32.639
Yeah, that's the most quotable.
And even the words around it are

813
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:36.119
really great. I think he says
like, you know, I'm looking there's

814
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:37.559
nobody else here but me, you
know, or whatever he says, you

815
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:43.039
know, you're talking, he's looking
around. Yeah, that's just the greatest,

816
00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:46.000
you know, And it's just intensity
in his eyes. And yeah,

817
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:50.800
that's my favorite too. It's gotta
be, uh the script. In the

818
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:53.920
script, it simply states that Travis
talks to himself in the mirror. So

819
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:59.159
Scorsese is sitting in front of him
at you know, on the floor,

820
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:05.360
you know, filming it, and
Daniro's just ad libbin the idea that one

821
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:08.760
of what is it like? Uh, I think it's like number number ten

822
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:14.199
in AFI's Top ten quotes of movie
quotes of all time. The fact that

823
01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:16.400
you know, Paul Schredder didn't write
this dialogue. This is just de Niro

824
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:22.599
ad libin, just saying whatever comes
to mind, and it's it's it's iconic.

825
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:27.280
It's it's think about how many times
it's been used in other movies as

826
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:30.400
a comedic device. You know.
Yeah, absolutely love it. Man.

827
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:36.199
Yeah, it's overused. You know. It's kind of like, oh,

828
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:38.280
I don't know, it's like this, say net Live. They have that

829
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:44.760
one catchword catchphrase that becomes over so
overplayed and you're sick of it, and

830
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:49.679
it just but it's just so perfect
though, you know, so I can't

831
01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:52.599
not like it. It's just uh
yeah, it's just a great moment,

832
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.280
you know. And like I said, just that one you're talking to me,

833
01:00:55.400 --> 01:01:00.360
but every word around it when he's
just you know, yeah, God,

834
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:05.599
he's that intimidating conversation he's having with
that you know, that phantom person

835
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:07.480
in front of him. You know, I don't see anyone else. Yeah,

836
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:12.519
so who the hell are you talking
to? Yeah, he's he's fantastic.

837
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.960
I'll tell you what I gotta believe
is fantastic. Andy, let's talk

838
01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:21.079
prequel, sequel remake, because you
knock this out of the park time and

839
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:25.920
time again. So let's just address
the fact before you before you give us

840
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:30.719
the Andy Tom answer. For years, Scorsase and de Niro have entertained the

841
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.960
idea of a sequel that observes Travis
Bickel in society today, you know,

842
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:39.400
and I think it was like twenty
thirteen, Denia revealed that Paul Schrader had

843
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:45.000
actually written a first draft of a
follow up, but him and Scorsese they

844
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:47.440
didn't think it was good enough to
move forward with. So the project kind

845
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:52.280
of died and it's been it's been
dead ever since. So I'm asking you

846
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:55.360
prequel, sequel, remake when it
comes to Taxi Driver, what do you

847
01:01:55.360 --> 01:02:00.440
got for us? Well, I'll
take I'll take sequel off the table because

848
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:05.400
he's dead, all right, So
that does so that can't happen in my

849
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:08.000
work, and you're yeah, and
then the yeah, you don't have to

850
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:12.159
move in my world. He's dead, and there is no way to make

851
01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:19.199
a sequel, uh the uh remake
obviously, And that's another trick question,

852
01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.960
because you know, you can never
remake these movies that were were the ones

853
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:29.920
that I've talked about with you.
You can't make these movies. So I

854
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:32.880
would not necessarily prequel, but it
would be a movie that would go.

855
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:44.079
It could fit in the same timeline
where it could involve these other at the

856
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:49.039
Belmore is the cafeteria that all the
guys sitting in, Yeah, the other

857
01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:53.239
cab because look, New York was
crazy back then, New York. So

858
01:02:54.159 --> 01:03:00.960
what's Peter Boyle's character, Wizard and
then wizard he got dough boy, right,

859
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:05.960
Yeah, they'll do anything for a
buck. That's why they can go.

860
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.360
And the other guy, the black
guy, thinks Charlie or something like

861
01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:15.320
that. So there you got.
Maybe it's a meeting point where these guys,

862
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:19.559
you know, maybe their lives are
even crazier than Travis's. You know,

863
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.599
so maybe kind of And then you
could even have a movie with one

864
01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:27.119
of these guys and oh, there's
de Niro sitting there and he's so you

865
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.920
have that same scene, you know, but now we're following this guy's storyline,

866
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:32.800
you know, and it could be
anything. I don't know, there's

867
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:37.639
like I said, New York was
nuts. Maybe the guys, you know,

868
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.719
run into some mob bosses or I
don't know, I would I would

869
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:45.880
think put it in that same world
but follow a different character. Now,

870
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:49.519
you know, that's the only thing, and it looked that doesn't really excite

871
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:52.639
me, But it's it's if I
had to choose between any of them.

872
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:57.280
A prequel, I mean, Travis
is still kind of unless you go into

873
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:00.159
Vietnam with him, and then that
you're that's that's completely different story. It's

874
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:04.159
it might could be interesting, but
I would do something called, you know,

875
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:12.079
the Bellmore Cafeteria. Okay, uh
can I can I pitch off of

876
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:15.079
your pitch? You said, you
know, you don't know how would be

877
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:19.280
interesting. But imagine a world where
someone like dough Boy or someone like Wizard

878
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:25.079
is a serial killer in nineteen seventies
New York. Yeah, perfect, all

879
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:28.639
right, you know the idea you
got one Cabby driving around as a vigilanti,

880
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:32.239
one Cabby driving around as a serial
killer in seventy seventy six. That'd

881
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:36.519
be crazy, the son of Sam. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, sure,

882
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:42.280
right crazy. There you go.
All right, so listen, I

883
01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:45.840
got something for you. You you
kind of talked about the idea of a

884
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:49.960
prequel where Travis Bickell is in Vietnam, And that's what I'm gonna give you.

885
01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:57.360
I'm gonna give you a film called
Rumble Squad. It's a prequel that

886
01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:00.880
shows Bickel and Vietnam. We're gonna
go a little bit darker than Oliver Stone's

887
01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:08.320
Platoon, and it's all about Bickles
platoon doing something horrendous and because he's disgusted

888
01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:12.119
by their actions, he takes them
all out, which kind of gives birth

889
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:17.880
to his homicidal vigilani u vigilanti tendencies. Okay, and since, uh,

890
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:24.320
since everyone keeps looking at Adam Driver
as a as a potential young Neil for

891
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:30.079
the Heat to movie, I'll say
Adam Driver as a PFC Travis Bickle in

892
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:32.519
nineteenth nineteen sixty eight, We'll say
wow. But wait a minute. You

893
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:39.039
just said Adam Driver for Heat two. Is that something that's been It's been

894
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:42.639
talked about a lot. Uh.
He did this new movie with Michael man

895
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.559
Ferrari. Okay, Yeah, and
everyone's looking at him as like, this

896
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:51.000
is who you pick to play a
young de Niro for Heat too. I

897
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:55.920
agree. I really like that guy. I think, oh he's fantastic and

898
01:05:55.960 --> 01:05:58.760
he almost has that look. I
think that'd be great. Oh, I

899
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:01.360
think it he was. Yeah,
he was. He was a marine too,

900
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:05.360
you know. Yeah, yeah,
could you see uh could you see

901
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:13.039
could you hear Adam driver's uh like
stunted delivery as he's as we're inside his

902
01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:16.440
head talking about what he's seeing over
there, And yeah, that's that's my

903
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:19.480
that's my that's my pitch. I'm
gonna call it rumble squad, you know,

904
01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:23.719
because those squads and those platoons they
had to have they had to have

905
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:26.599
some kick ass names, you know, And I just like the idea of

906
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:28.880
like, it's a rumble, you
know, it's it's that time like that.

907
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.760
You know, it's like a gang
fight. They're gonna go in and

908
01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:34.239
you know, do the things that
other platoons don't want to mohawk kind of

909
01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:40.280
Yes, yeah, I could see
it. Yeah, all right, what

910
01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:43.400
do you uh? Andy, what
do you see? What's that? I

911
01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:45.280
say? Is it completely different?
Now you're in a completely different you're in

912
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:49.480
the jungles, Yeah, in Manhattan, but uh I could see it,

913
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.960
Yeah, from from the concrete jungle
to the real jungle, you know.

914
01:06:56.159 --> 01:07:00.079
Right. All right, well,
Andy, let's talk. Let's talk rating.

915
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:04.320
Out of four possible stars, what
would you give taxi driver like Roger

916
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:10.440
Ebert gave it four stars. It's
four. Rod Riber gave it four,

917
01:07:10.519 --> 01:07:13.280
didn't he? Yeah, Roger gave
it four. But Ciskel did not like

918
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.159
it. If I remember right,
Ciskel thought it was brilliant, but he

919
01:07:16.199 --> 01:07:19.840
had a problem with the violence.
And Rodribert's like, without the violence,

920
01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:25.280
it's a different movie exactly. Yeah, he says that end. Yeah,

921
01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.840
I got that ending. It's a
completely different movie. But yeah, I

922
01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:30.000
think it's what. Yeah, it
is masterpiece. It's one of the best

923
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:35.480
examples of gritty, almost borderline explortation
seventy cinema that there is, in my

924
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:42.199
opinion. Yeah, agreed. Well, Andy, it's been a privilege discussing

925
01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.440
not just Taxi Driver, but several
great films from nineteen seventy six with you,

926
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:49.360
and although you're right at home in
this decade, I think I hope

927
01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:53.199
you'll be back to talk with us
more next year. Oh love it.

928
01:07:53.280 --> 01:07:58.519
I would love to anytime. Fantastic
Well listen listeners. You can let us

929
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:03.719
know your thoughts about Taxi Driver at
www dot afilm by podcast dot com or

930
01:08:03.800 --> 01:08:10.480
on our social media channels on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Next time

931
01:08:10.719 --> 01:08:15.039
on nineteen seventy six, We're all
but out of time and on the run

932
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:23.279
with Michael York and the lovely Jenny
Agatter in Logan's Run until that time.

933
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:30.520
Thanks for lending your ears. We'll
catch you on the flip side.