Nov. 29, 2024

A Film at 45: Kramer vs. Kramer

A Film at 45: Kramer vs. Kramer

"I was his mommy for five and a half years. And Ted took over that role for 18 months." Our limited series, "A Film at 45" is back to celebrate the 45th anniversary of the films of 1979! We're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema...

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Season 5A Film At 45
"I was his mommy for five and a half years. And Ted took over that role for 18 months."

Our limited series, "A Film at 45" is back to celebrate the 45th anniversary of the films of 1979! We're dusting off the end of a decade that changed cinema forever, with a fresh look at modern classics and hidden gems that we can't stop watching! Amber joins Scott for a conversation about the complexities of divorce, the emotional trauma of custody battles, and the personal growth that results with the powerful drama, Kramer vs. Kramer.

For exclusive episodes and content, check out A Film By... Podcast on our Patreon with a FREE 7-day trial. You can also sign up as a free member!

Check out www.afilmbypodcast.com/ for more information.
Email us at afilmbypodcast@gmail.com with your questions, comments, and requests.
Find us on X Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @afilmbypodcast.
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Hello, everyone, Welcome back to a Film at forty five,

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a limited series from a film by podcast. I'm Scott Hoffman,

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and we're dusting off the end of a decade that

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changed cinema forever with a fresh look at modern classics

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and hidden gems that we can't stop watching. This week,

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we're talking about Kramer Versus Kramer with a special guest,

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Amber Lewis. Thanks for joining.

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Us, Oh, thank you for having me.

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I cannot wait to talk about this movie that I've

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watched for the first time this week. No, really, Yes,

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this is one that has always been one of those

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you've got to see it kind of movies. But I

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was born in seventy six, and this had always seemed

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like one that's on the shelf for my parents, So

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it always seemed like, well, by the time I'm old

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enough to care about it or to get into it,

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it didn't seem to didn't seem to really be as relevant.

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But I was shocked at how relevant it still is

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and how well it still holds up.

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Yes, same, I felt the exact same way.

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So what's your history with this one? Have you seen

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it before like early days or was this more of

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a recent discovery? For you.

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Yes, well, it's kind of ironic that I watched it today.

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Today it would have been my parents' fifty fifth wedding anniversary.

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They were married forty years until my father died, and

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but we still celebrate their anniversary, you know. And so

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I was watching this today, going, this is kind of surreal.

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But yeah, I was born in seventy four, so you know,

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I was the same age as Justin Henry that plays

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Billy when the movie came out, so of course it

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meant nothing to me. But this was one that was on,

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you know, like it would pop up on HBO or

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Showtime or whatever. And so I caught it probably when

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I was a teenager, probably too young to really understand it, yea.

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And I've watched it probably a handful of times since then,

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and my opinions tend to change over time. I had

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very strong opinions when I watched it as a teenager,

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and then you know, as you grow up and now

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I'm a single mom myself, you know, it's your perspective changes,

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so you are able to see people with a little

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more kindness and a little more grace.

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Yeah, well I want to dig into that a little

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bit more because there's definitely I mean, as the title suggests,

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there's two sides to it, even though arguably there's kind

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of three sides to it, right, Yes, So for those

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who are unfamiliar, let me just kind of describe what

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it's all about. The beginning of this story is the

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ending of a marriage between Ted Kramer and Joanna Krmer.

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Caught in the middle is their young son, Billy, who

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is as confused and frightened about what's going on as

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both of his parents are. Ted is a workaholic advertising

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executive whose job has consumed his attention so much that

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he doesn't see his relationship falling apart. But there's more

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to his story than his career. Joanna feels trapped within

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their modest Manhattan apartment in a life that she doesn't want,

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and wrestles with the choice to leave her family behind

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or lose herself altogether. This story follows the fallout of

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an explosive ending to a marriage that's been on the

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verge of collapse, possibly for years, and the struggle to

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pick up the pieces of what's left hind for the

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sake of their son. It's an emotional roller coaster that

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hit close to home for many adults and parents in

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nineteen seventy nine, and it's no different for those of

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us who grew up with divorce in the years that followed.

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From both sides of the story, let's talk about Kramer

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versus Kramer. So that being said, yes, how has your

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perspective on these two sides, Let's say how has that

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changed over the years A little bit from an adult perspective,

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I think.

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The biggest thing is my willingness to see Joanna's side

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for the first few times I watched this for many

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many years, like I hated her. She was one hundred

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percent the villain of this story because and I still

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can't quite let it go because she left her little

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boy and left him for a long time. It wasn't

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like I'm completely changing the way our world is structured.

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She disappeared for a year and a half, and that

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to me is just appalling, and I can't let it go.

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I can't forgive it, you know. So I still kind

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of lingered to that anger over that. But you know,

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as as a woman and understanding what life was like

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for women at that time, you know, it was only

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a few years before they got the right to have

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a credit card without their husband's name on it, and

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it's just ridiculous, yeah, honestly to own their own property

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and have their own business and their own careers. So

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everything was changing quite a bit. And so to you know,

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look at it, you know, from twenty twenty four eyes

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and see that the trap that she was in, and

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it wasn't one hundred percent of her own device. And

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there were things that I noticed in the story this

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time that I hadn't noticed before that change the story

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that you think you know of this marriage. If you

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listen very carefully during their testimony, you get a much

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clearer picture of what their marriage was like and what

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their life was like before she made this decision. And

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so while it was it seemingly was spur of the

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moment and seemingly was you know, very extreme. It also

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you can just have more understanding of, you know, what

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kind of backed her into that corner.

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It's interesting because when I was watching this, it kind

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of made me think that it's easy to see how

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the construction of this movie sets her up as a villain,

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which I don't really agree with that characterization, even though

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I know that's you know, if there's two sides, it

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seems like there has to be a good and a bad,

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right and I totally agree with the idea that you know,

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abandoning her kid is not the right way to go.

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But well, and it also seemed to me, sorry to interrupt,

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but a little bit spiteful, a little bit like let's

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see how well you handle doing everything all by yourself,

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Like she was kind of deliberately screwing Ted over and

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Billy was just like this pawn in.

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That interesting because when I saw her in the beginning,

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she spends the time with Billy kind of you know,

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thinking about her decision. You know, walking away from him

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had to be difficult, And I just want to make

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sure that I'm I'm clear that the way that I

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see this is that she was struggling with mental health

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issues for sure. Oh absolutely at the time, because to

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your point, she's in this she's she's trapped in this situation,

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in this marriage, and it's not just about getting away

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from Ted. If that was the case, if she really

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wanted to kind of wreck his life kind of spitefully,

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then she would have taken Billy and left, or she

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would have done other things to kind of damage him.

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But that moment in the hallway, she has that panic,

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and she's saying, I don't know, Like she keeps turning,

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she keeps kind of pacing back and forth in the hallway,

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saying like, I don't know what I want. I don't

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know what I can do. I'm no good to him,

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I'm no good to any of this. It's you know,

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it's me and yeah, and she says, if I do,

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if it's for a minute, if it's for an hour,

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if it's for a year, I'll jump out the window.

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That's a red flag. That is a giant red flag.

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And it is pretty clear that Ted has not been

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seeing them, like you can see his actions when he's

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talking to Joanna about it, when she's trying to tell

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him what she's doing. He's reading the paper. He's I mean,

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not a newspaper, I don't think necessarily. He's kind of

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going through his papers for work, right, but he's clearly

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not listening. He's just kind of going through the motions

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of listening.

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Well, the first thing he does when he walks into

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the apartment is look in the mirror and just touch that.

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I didn't catch that.

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Yeah, I caught that. This time, he's talking a mile

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a minute about you know, his his promotion and this,

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that and the other thing, and he just blows right

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past her and he walks up to this mirror they've

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got hanging in the hallway and like checks himself in

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the mirror, and then it turns to go to the.

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Phone, which is which is interesting because he's clearly still

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at work right not able to hang it up, knows

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that he has to get on the phone and talk

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to somebody about something that still couldn't wait, talk to

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the art department or whatever, and then start kind of

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slowly engaging with his family. But even with that, just

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kind of going through the motions of it, and that's

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a very dangerous thing to do. What A thing is

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interesting about how she sets up the departure, though, is

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that she seems to go through a very careful process

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of making sure that he has what he needs to

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take care of Billy the next day and to take

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care of the things that she would because she doesn't

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storm out, she doesn't smack him, she doesn't do anything

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like that that would seem kind of overtly hurtful. She

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sets up to say, like, this is what you need

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to pick up the dry cleaning. You have to get

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Billy to certain places at a certain time. Here's my

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credit card. I'm only leaving with enough money. As I

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came into this marriage with like she's carefully constructed this

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little escape plan that she has. I feel like it's

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too because she doesn't want to stop taking care of

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Billy's specifically, and she doesn't want to hurt Ted. She

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wants to know that he has what he needs to

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take care of himself. But she's like, I'm literally drowning,

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and if she stays in that situation, it could have

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been much worse. I think if she had decided to

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hurt herself or something else, that could have hurt billions

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some other kind of way. So I felt I think

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when I came into this, it does very much seem

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like you have to choose a side. But I felt

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myself feeling very sorry for her and relating very easily.

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Unfortunately to where Ted was that idea of working too much,

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being a workaholic, you know, bringing things home and not

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really engaging with his family, and he didn't he didn't

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see all the signs where it was falling apart. I

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think it's also a very interesting choice that they start

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in the office with Ted yes, and that He's sitting

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there with his boss and they didn't have anything else

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to do. Work was done, but he was spending all

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this time opening up to his boss and you know,

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piling around with his boss and things like that. And

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only when somebody was like turning out the lights he

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was reminded to go home. It was like, Ted, what

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are you doing buddy?

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Yeah, And even on the way home, he was very

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easily persuaded, Oh, let's go have a drink.

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Yeah, yeah, just one more right? Oh god? Yeah.

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And I think it's significant to his reaction when she

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first kind of breaks through his own personal narrative that

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he's got going and it makes it clear I'm leaving you.

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This is happening. He's very patronizing, and it's kind of

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a hangover from you know, like that Madman era of

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like it's your husband, but also kind of your dad,

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you know where he's But I'm the man and I'm

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in charge and I do all the things. And he's like, Okay,

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let you know, you had your little fit. Okay, I'm sorry,

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I was late, right, you know, that kind of thing.

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And I think that that it comes back around again

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during the court proceedings, and I think that that's a

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very significant tell for the dynamic of their relationship.

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Yeah, well, and you can you can tell kind of

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fast forwarding there to the courtroom scene. It doesn't seem

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like either one of them is getting any kind of

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enjoyment or pleasure out of this whole thing. One because

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they know that Billy is kind of in the balance

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of everything. But two because it doesn't seem like, oh,

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I'm going to get back at her, I'm going to

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get back at him. They just want to be there

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for Billy. They see each other as a threat to that.

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But they're not feeding anything to the lawyers. It doesn't

226
00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.879
seem that's going to hurt the other person. Layers, unfortunately,

227
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.360
go there very naturally, which talking about his.

228
00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.639
Lawyer has the greatest line because Dustin Hoffin says, do

229
00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.279
you have to be so hard on her? And he goes,

230
00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.759
do you want the kid or not? And he says

231
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.480
it like that aggressively, And I mean, just if you

232
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:19.559
didn't like lawyers before, you're really not gonna like him now.

233
00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:21.320
These guys are awful.

234
00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:23.879
I feel I feel sorry for the lawyers that we know.

235
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.039
Just know that we know not everybody. But this doesn't

236
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.840
this doesn't help for sure. Yeah, there's there's a lot

237
00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:34.799
of interesting things happening in those opening scenes when he's

238
00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:38.600
trying to make French toast in a coffee mug. The

239
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.960
entire time, he's like, well, when mom comes back, when

240
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:42.960
mom comes back, and he just assumes that it's going

241
00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:43.360
to happen.

242
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.159
But you know what I love is he neither one

243
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.120
of them ever lies to Billy.

244
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:50.399
That's true.

245
00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:54.559
He doesn't say she went to visit a friend, or

246
00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.240
she'll be back in a few days or anything. He

247
00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:02.679
tells him exactly what happened. And when she writes her

248
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:07.639
letter to him, she says very kind of harshly to

249
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.399
a little kid, like sometimes mommies need more than being

250
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.120
mommies and that I mean, my god, that's so hard

251
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:18.960
to say out loud, you know, but I you know,

252
00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.240
as much as he in the beginning, like he treats

253
00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:25.000
him like a puppy, you know, like this dog that

254
00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:29.159
he has to care for. But I love that he

255
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.440
never lies to him, you know that there's always that

256
00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.679
honesty between the parents and them. And I love that

257
00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.320
French Toast team because I can't remember when my dad.

258
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.159
My youngest brother is four years younger than me. So

259
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:50.639
I was four when he was born, and so it

260
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.879
was me and my middle brother, and then my mom

261
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.279
is of course in the hospital with the baby, and

262
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.360
it was us and my dad. And I was like,

263
00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.559
who's gonna feed us? Because that was not our family,

264
00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.799
Like it was a very traditional nuclear family. My dad

265
00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.240
went to work, my mom was a homemaker, and I

266
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.320
was like, do you even know, like how the stove works?

267
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.240
And he did a great job, like he handled things

268
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.919
very well on his own. But I laugh every time

269
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.279
you see Dustin Hoffman doing that, because that was really

270
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.360
like about the skill level I thought my dad would have. Yeah,

271
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.360
that was very typical for that era.

272
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.159
A sharp increase in grilled cheese sandwiches.

273
00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:33.200
In that time, a lot of cereal.

274
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:39.279
There's a lot of other players that come into this

275
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:44.080
besides Ted and Joanna. Obviously we've already talked about Billy,

276
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.000
and I just acknowledging the Dustin Hoffman, Meryl Streep and

277
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.879
Justin Henry clearly deserve all the accolades that they got, oh,

278
00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.639
because they all do a phenomenal job. Even though we'll

279
00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:01.840
talk about this later, Dustin Hoffman's methods are not okay

280
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.359
but kind of surrounding them in this orbit. We've got

281
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.000
a lot of other players. Jane Alexander plays the neighbor.

282
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.119
Oh, I thought her so much.

283
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.319
She does an amazing job in this. I hate that

284
00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.039
Ted immediately goes to a place of oh, well, you

285
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.160
must have kind of plotted together about.

286
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.039
This, Yeah, of women's lab.

287
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.640
No, she's just been the one that's actually listening to

288
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.000
her and observing this breakdown while it's been boiling up.

289
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:37.079
But she does a great job with this portrayal as

290
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:39.920
somebody who is there for the family.

291
00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.680
Yeah, she likes them both. They get along, you know,

292
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.200
their kids get along. And as much as she was

293
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.160
Joanna's friend, she then becomes Ted's.

294
00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.880
Right and she's very much a bridge between them.

295
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.759
And I love that they don't get together.

296
00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.519
Thank you my mind, Yes.

297
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.680
And support each other and love each other. And there

298
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.119
is nothing more to it than that.

299
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.559
Yeah. Now, on the flip side of that, we've got

300
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.920
George Co playing Jim O'Connor the boss. Ooh this boss,

301
00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:19.599
sweet mother of God. First of all the fact that

302
00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:24.920
he's heaping this much pressure on Ted and not supporting

303
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:28.279
his work life balance in any way, because I don't

304
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.559
think in nineteen seventy nine. That was necessarily even a phrase, right, no.

305
00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:36.480
And especially not for men. But when you know, I really,

306
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.240
like you said in our opening, got the feeling that

307
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:42.880
they were friends. I didn't really pick up that he

308
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.720
was his boss necessarily, like I got, he was a

309
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:52.319
little bit higher. But when someone comes to you and says, like,

310
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.119
my wife just left me and left the kid, and

311
00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.519
I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm just kind of,

312
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:02.240
you know, treading right now, And the first thing you

313
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:04.880
say is, well, I still need you twenty four to seven.

314
00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:09.319
Oh yeah, Well before that, he asks, can you send

315
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:14.039
the kid away? That's his reaction. Can you live with

316
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.559
someone else? Oh my god, I caught that cool.

317
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.599
Yeah, send him to grandma's or something like, oh, that's disgusting.

318
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:24.640
So in the so, I'm in advertising, so there's a

319
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.319
lot that I can relate to here. Fortunately I can't

320
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.480
relate to horribleness of those bosses because I'm fortunate enough

321
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:38.519
to not had those bosses in my career. But his

322
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.480
approach to the entire thing, the kind of dynamic between

323
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.960
the two, the way I was perceiving it, Jim O'Connor,

324
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.599
the boss is as a higher level creative above Ted.

325
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.119
So Ted is kind of working his way up the ladder.

326
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.640
Jim gets to decide who gets on what accounts, what

327
00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:58.880
kind of involvement they're going to have, things like that,

328
00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:02.599
and and it seems like the kind of dynamic where

329
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.559
people in that industry are assumed that they're going to

330
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.400
get divorces early because they have to sink so much

331
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:13.759
of themselves into their work, and Jim just perpetuates that.

332
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.119
He doesn't support it. He doesn't say, go take care

333
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.839
of your family. This is a crisis moment. Yes, this

334
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.720
is an important account, but you have to take care

335
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.079
of yourself first, because I care about you as a human.

336
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.799
He's more saying, I just got this account. What do

337
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.359
I do with it if you're not going to do it?

338
00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:36.039
And Ted's reply when he says, you do have my

339
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.799
full commitment. I'm going to be here twenty four, twenty

340
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.799
five hours a day, three hundred and sixty seven days

341
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.599
a week. Eight No, three hundred and sixty seven days

342
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:48.720
a year, eight days a week, you know the usual

343
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.240
kind of yeah. And then his voice breaks when he says,

344
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:53.960
because I'm not a loser, and you know I can

345
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.000
you can count on me. The first emotional break he

346
00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:01.200
has is when he's his position is redned or it

347
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.079
feels like his career is going to fall apart, and

348
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.880
it's like, Ted, Ted, this is not the time. This

349
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.319
is the time to like walk from it and say

350
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.839
I can't handle this account. You're gonna have to get

351
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:18.880
somebody else, because this is what's happening. He's so bad

352
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.240
at Joanna that it obviously sets her up as in

353
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.759
that kind of villain position, right, So it's easy to

354
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.119
see her that way, but it's it's missing what she's

355
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:33.640
also going through. And I think that's it's important to

356
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.039
focus on Ted for that long because it is kind

357
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:44.680
of having that realization through Ted, Right, Watching Joanna's breakdown

358
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.160
would be very important, but not as important as seeing

359
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.359
that Ted has to make that realization because, like you said,

360
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.960
if at this time this is kind of commonplace, then

361
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:56.119
a lot of guys are still missing this.

362
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.559
Yes, you know, he kind of puts her in this

363
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.319
box of that bitch. I can't believe she did this,

364
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.319
you know, And he packs up all her stuff and

365
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:13.400
takes down all our pictures and his ability to start

366
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:16.680
seeing Billy as a person and engaging with him as

367
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:21.079
a person really starts when he's cleaning up in the

368
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.000
evening and he's putting his toys away, and he goes

369
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.519
to put his clothes in the drawer and he finds

370
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.960
a picture of Joanna hidden in the drawer. And it's

371
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:35.720
not just the realization of like, what did I do

372
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:39.920
to him when I took all our pictures away? How

373
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.160
did that affect him? But it's also what does it

374
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.160
say that he had to hide this? He couldn't just

375
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.359
say he wanted it, He couldn't just say he needed it.

376
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.000
He had to hide it from me? Yeah, you know,

377
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:55.319
and then the grace to allow her to become a

378
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:59.559
person and become the mother again and put her picture

379
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:04.799
on his night stand in this like prominent place and

380
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.920
kind of give Billy that permission to still hold her

381
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.720
in that place. You know, it was such a huge step.

382
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:19.519
Yeah, Yeah, there's there's big emotional steps, specifically when it

383
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:21.880
involves Billy. So what I'd like to do, let's take

384
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.440
a quick break. When we come back, let's focus a

385
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:30.359
little bit more on Billy's story, specifically his encounter with Phyllis.

386
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.599
Is that's an interesting bit of humor there. Anyway, when

387
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.720
we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about

388
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:43.440
Creamer versus Cramer. All right, we're back. So, yeah, there's

389
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:47.759
a lot of emotional kind of realizations that Ted has

390
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:53.559
when he's there with Billy. You mentioned one of the

391
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.880
scenes where he gets the letter from Joanna. He assumes

392
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.400
that it's her saying she's coming back. He opens it

393
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.480
up in front of Billy and reads it to him

394
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.480
for the first time, without vetting it, without seeing what's

395
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.640
being said. He just opens it right up. Now, that's

396
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:16.160
very honest, but it's also a little misguided, am I right?

397
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.799
I mean yeah, because, like I said, she says things

398
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.319
she's trying to explain, and you can tell that it's

399
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.079
early days and like she doesn't have a therapist yet.

400
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:31.079
Because this has not been vetted by anybody strum consciousness there,

401
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.400
you know, And I don't know that anybody would have

402
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:39.079
put it quite so bluntly. But I also thought that

403
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.680
he thought it was like there was going to be

404
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:46.839
like the baby letter for Billy and a letter for him. Yeah,

405
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:48.720
because he kind of looks at the envelope like is

406
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:49.480
this all there is?

407
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:55.400
Right? Yeah? Yeah, And I think he needs to take

408
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.680
a beat to kind of figure out what she's saying

409
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:02.920
because she number one left in a in a state

410
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.720
where she was not okay, So there's no telling what

411
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:07.960
would have been in that note, Like hopefully it didn't

412
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.839
say that she had decided to take her own life

413
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:12.240
right herself.

414
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.920
I don't want to be your mommy or you know,

415
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:21.960
something really devastatingly horrible. It was rough enough as it was,

416
00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:27.839
but still I have to say, like like I said before,

417
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.680
like the honesty that they give this kid, I think

418
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:37.160
is you know, commendable. And I to that end, I

419
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:44.160
love the ice cream fights, yes, and that, but that

420
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.240
whole sequence. I've never had a fight with my child

421
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.440
that's exactly like that, but I've certainly felt that way.

422
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.039
I've had him do things that were defiant and you

423
00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.079
just want to like lose your mind. And I I

424
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.200
love that they said all the hateful things they needed

425
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:06.839
to say and then came back together and said, you know,

426
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.039
I was wrong and I'm sorry, and you know, Dustin

427
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.880
Hoffmann really explains it wasn't your fault you, it had

428
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:17.839
nothing to do with you. It was my fault.

429
00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:23.599
Yeah, oh my god. Yeah did it break my heart?

430
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.279
The second time that I watched this and was really

431
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:33.519
paying attention to that part Billy's question to him, He says, like,

432
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.960
you know, I'm sorry I was bad. Are you going

433
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.759
to go away? Right? Oh? God Like? Is that why

434
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:45.119
mommy went away? Because I was bad? Oh? God Like?

435
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.039
Billy is such a lens for like I said, like

436
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.519
growing up in that kind of time period and it

437
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.240
seemed like it was for adults. But now forty five

438
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.519
years later, a lot of us that are children of

439
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:04.880
divorced or have had divorce come closer into our atmosphere. Right,

440
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:08.759
we can relate to the adults in this story, but

441
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.720
we also see ourselves through Billy, right, being in those

442
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:16.279
kind of positions. And you know, my mom and dad

443
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.079
went through divorce, so I can relate to a lot

444
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.880
of what Billy was going through. And as a dad,

445
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:25.480
I can also relate to those moments where it's like

446
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:31.079
when you let what you're bringing home, you let your

447
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:35.160
own adult baggage come through. To the kid when he

448
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:39.279
spills the juice on his work and he loses his mind,

449
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.920
when he picks him up and carries him and throws

450
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:44.079
him on the bed and calls him a horrible kid

451
00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:49.039
for the ice cream thing. Those moments where I'm glad

452
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.000
that he realizes, I'm being a shitty father in this moment.

453
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.240
I should not be acting in this way because this

454
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.799
kid's life is literally falling apart and he is way

455
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:01.880
too young of an age to even realize what's going on.

456
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:06.279
It's it is so well written. It is such a

457
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:11.359
well written script. My god. Yeah, but yeah, moments like that.

458
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.759
But you need That's where the growth happens. You know,

459
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:19.160
as painful and horrible as that whole sequence, is the

460
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:24.160
moment of bonding that they have after that and the

461
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.039
connection that they are able to build after that, because

462
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.480
you know, it needs to be said, like he does

463
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.599
want to be a good father, because he could have

464
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:36.680
just hired a nanny and gone back to doing what

465
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.039
he was doing anyway.

466
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:42.000
Right, right, Yeah, because he still does try to make

467
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.920
an earnest effort, like when he's running into a meeting

468
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.279
late and he asks the person at the office to

469
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:50.759
put the chicken in the fridge, like he's doing his

470
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:55.240
best to balance this and his boss needs to tell

471
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.599
him take care of life. It's not get to threaten

472
00:28:58.640 --> 00:28:59.119
your job.

473
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.759
All he needed to do was move him off that

474
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:05.799
huge account. I know that there were other things he

475
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.279
could have been doing yeah, you know, at that firm,

476
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:14.240
and you know to not you know, he gets fired

477
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.039
like a week before Christmas when he knows he's going

478
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.759
into this custody you know, legal mess.

479
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.240
I mean, which is a beat where I do see

480
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:31.240
a villainous aspect of Joanna, even though I don't think

481
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:34.160
it's spiteful. I think it's just misguided and I think

482
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.880
it's just where she's still coming into it from a

483
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:41.599
place where she doesn't quite have everything right, because if

484
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:47.000
she did, she wouldn't want to pull Billy out or

485
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.079
go through this divorce over Christmas. That just seems like

486
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.960
of all the horrible times to do this kind of thing. Yes,

487
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:58.079
not that there's ever a good time, not that these

488
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:02.880
things are quick and easy, but Ted's in that situation

489
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.839
where he has to get isn't it Like Christmas Eve?

490
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.599
He has to hunt down a brand new job just

491
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.200
so you can say he has a job and he

492
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:10.319
can pay for his apartment.

493
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:15.759
That agency and hiring him, which.

494
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.240
Pretty much I didn't think it was gonna happen. Honestly

495
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:20.880
that first time, I was like, he's not getting it.

496
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.519
They're trying to figure out how to call security and

497
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:30.839
pull him out. But yeah, yeah. So before he's let go,

498
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:36.880
he happens to uh ask a co worker out on

499
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.839
a date, the mom from Poltergeist Joe Beth Williams, Yes,

500
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:47.880
as Phyllis Bernard, and he asks her out. They hook

501
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:52.000
up and she's going to the bathroom in the in

502
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:54.960
the middle of the night, I guess it is wanders

503
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.559
into the hallway at the wrong time and there's Billy. Yeah,

504
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:00.160
she's in her al to get.

505
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.319
It and I'm sorry, Like he walks around like did

506
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.240
she not know he had a kid with no clothes on?

507
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.799
Exactly? Yeah, you're at least grabbing a shirt or something

508
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:12.839
like that. Like if you're in a strange place and

509
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.160
you know that the bathroom isn't necessarily like right there

510
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.440
off of the room, you're gonna put something on, yes,

511
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:25.759
But yeah, Billy, Like it's interesting how much like Billy

512
00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:30.440
is not shaken and clearly he's mature for his age,

513
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.279
right because he doesn't make a big deal about it.

514
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:35.160
He just asks her a question about like if she

515
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:40.880
likes fried chicken. Yeah, she's like, I guess, so do

516
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.880
you have some now? Like this is not a place

517
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:43.559
to talk about that.

518
00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:46.640
But he's still so innocent. God bless him.

519
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.440
Yeah, Yeah, that was that was a much needed moment

520
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.200
of kind of levity in the middle of that whole thing.

521
00:31:53.640 --> 00:32:00.359
Yes, but I think, you know, as you were talking about,

522
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.599
you know, the choice to go through this custody battle

523
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.000
at Christmas and everything, I think the thing that I

524
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.359
picked up on this time that I don't think I

525
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.920
had realized was some of that is Joanna is still

526
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:20.160
behaving the way she thinks she's supposed to, and she

527
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:24.000
has not yet reached the point where she is willing

528
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:28.200
to say I can't do this full time. I can't

529
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.519
be this person.

530
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:32.799
Right, I need to figure out who I am.

531
00:32:33.079 --> 00:32:37.880
Yeah, where Ted was self aware enough, you get the

532
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.000
split second shot of he makes a pro and con

533
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:46.559
list about fighting for custody and there are no pros

534
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.279
to being a single dad, and there's like five cons

535
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.799
and it's like, you know, it affects work and you

536
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.720
have no privacy and you never get a break and

537
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.119
all of those things that as a single parent of

538
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.720
percent say, yep, that's my life. Yeah, but uh, she

539
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:11.000
never like did that. She never had that moment until

540
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:15.759
the night before Billy's supposed to move in, and she

541
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.240
finally had that realization. I think as much as she

542
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:23.599
kind of frames it around, he's not going to be

543
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.319
at home. He's gonna I want him to feel like

544
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:28.079
he's at home, and he's not going to be at home.

545
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:32.240
I think there's a significant portion of it that she

546
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:34.440
had a panic attack and was like, I can't go

547
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:39.799
back yea to being this all the time. I just can't. Yeah,

548
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.720
and it's better for her to be the part time,

549
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:50.680
so to speak. Right, visitation parent take a step back

550
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.519
now that Ted really is able to step up and

551
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:54.519
do the full time.

552
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:59.240
Which is an interesting point because the first viewing, I

553
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:03.559
was wondering I saw her when she's in the cafe

554
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:06.480
and she's watching the playground from across the street. I

555
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.760
saw it as creepy. I saw it as she's lurking.

556
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:13.400
She's a lurking you know, not that she was a

557
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.719
villain necessarily, but almost like, oh, she's the you know,

558
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:19.159
you've got to watch out for her, Like I said.

559
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.840
And how dare you? You've been back for two months

560
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.039
and the first thing you did when you got off

561
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:28.280
the plane was not to go see your baby, Like

562
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:29.400
are you kidding me?

563
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:34.719
So I think she was like, well, it's interesting because

564
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:37.119
the second time around when I'm watching it. So after

565
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.000
I saw the the climax of this movie, the ending

566
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:44.639
of it, and I watched it a second time, it

567
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.079
felt like what she's doing by watching the Cat from

568
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:53.159
the Cafe is trying to make sure that Billy is

569
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:56.960
okay with Ted, that Ted is actually taking care of him.

570
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:01.960
That she's wondering, like, Okay, I'm going to safe enough distance,

571
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.719
do I feel I can come back into that. She's

572
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.079
almost kind of testing the waters, but she doesn't want

573
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:11.039
to draw attention. She doesn't want to get Billy's hopes up,

574
00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:15.000
she doesn't want to raise suspicions from Ted. She just

575
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.440
wants to see if things are going okay. And I

576
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.360
think it's interesting how that kind of connects to the

577
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.960
ending of the movie, where she ultimately decides that Billy

578
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.280
already is home. I don't know that she's necessarily giving

579
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.360
up custody or visitation rates or any of that other

580
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.760
kind of stuff, but she's realizing, I still need to

581
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.960
figure things out, and the most stable environment, the most

582
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.079
consistent thing that Billy has right now is there with Ted.

583
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.400
Knowing that he's willing to take a step back in

584
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.239
his career, that he's willing to actually focus on his family.

585
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.920
And it's brilliant to leave that ambiuous too, Like you

586
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:56.519
don't even have to see her meeting with Billy afterwards.

587
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.920
You just kind of leave it open to whatever happens

588
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:03.880
because it was after doesn't matter as much as what

589
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.840
you're observing the whole movie, which is just kind of

590
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.079
what they're going through the process of doors and what

591
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:09.760
happens in it.

592
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.880
Yes, and I think you get that kind of similar

593
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.360
to the ice cream scene, their divorce kind of happens

594
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:24.400
over paper, long distance, like they're already divorced when she

595
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:30.559
comes back and goes for custody. She had signed custody away. Yeah, so,

596
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.920
but they never had the fight that you need to have.

597
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.400
They never said the things that you need to say.

598
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.400
You know. She had never spoken her truth. He had

599
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:46.320
never had those realizations and spoken his truth. You know.

600
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:51.400
So those courtroom scenes I are kind of for me,

601
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:54.639
the weakest part of the movie, but they're so important

602
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.199
because of the connection that Ted and Joanna are able

603
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.800
to make right midst of all this chaos that then

604
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.119
leads them to at the end, you see that they

605
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.679
have reached a spot where I mean they go from

606
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.960
him not really throwing a wine glass at her, but

607
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:16.119
kind of sort of two you know, they're able to

608
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.559
look like they can work things out and compromise and

609
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.760
you know, be respectful of each other, and that ultimately,

610
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:27.960
you know, has to be the goal of your co parenting.

611
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:34.000
Yeah. Well, and all the spitefulness, all the venom is

612
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.719
really coming from the lawyers in that scene. Yes, And

613
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:42.840
it's interesting, like, now that you mentioned it, I don't

614
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:44.639
think there was ever a point in the movie where

615
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.280
they had any kind of argument or fight in front

616
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:51.360
of Billy, not that that hadn't happened before, probably before

617
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:55.480
the movie even started, right, But they never come out

618
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:58.400
of each other in front of Billy. The only time

619
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.360
when there's any kind of you know, challenging the other

620
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:04.519
parent or whatever is when the lawyers are coming after

621
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:10.000
Joanna and they step over some lines in a big

622
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:15.519
way like they're pretty terrible lawyers.

623
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.719
But it does lead to one of the for me,

624
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.239
one of the most touching and heartbreaking moments in the

625
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:26.360
whole movie is when Ted's lawyer is screaming at her

626
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.320
and he says, you were a failure at the one

627
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.320
thing you've done longest, you know, the one relationship you've

628
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:35.400
had the longest in your life. And she looks at

629
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:38.559
him and she nods, and he looks at her and

630
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:40.000
he smiles and he shakes his head.

631
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:40.119
No.

632
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:44.199
Yeah, and they just have that moment between, Oh my god,

633
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.159
I if I wasn't crying before, then I cry every

634
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:47.960
time at that seat.

635
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.280
Oh yeah, yeah. And that's when you can tell they

636
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.920
still care about each other. Yes, you know, there's not malice,

637
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.320
there's not hate. It's just that each one of them

638
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:59.000
loves Billy and they can't figure out how to love

639
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.679
him together. So yes, how do they kind of build

640
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:07.079
that next step in the future. God such great right,

641
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:12.000
And unfortunately a lot going on behind the scenes that

642
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.840
was setting both Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Street up for

643
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:23.000
some personal emotional things that we're driving their performance. So

644
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.000
I'm gonna pause for a quick break. When we come back,

645
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:28.760
we'll get into through the lens and wrap up our

646
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:34.000
thoughts on Cramer Versus Creamer. We're back, and we're going

647
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:38.039
to talk about some behind the scenes stories. Usually there's

648
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:40.039
a lot that we talk about when it gets into

649
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:44.760
special effects and production and sets and also the kind

650
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.800
of stuff. This was a very ambres are fair to

651
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:49.360
say this is a pretty simple production.

652
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:58.199
Yeah, Like it could very easily be a play, like

653
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.880
a two set reset play. You know, you've got a

654
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:08.440
handful of characters. Most of the business takes place in

655
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:15.039
the apartment, you know. It's it's very very intimate. Yeah,

656
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:21.239
and it's got that great you know, seventies eighties gorilla style,

657
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:25.119
like you're filming on the streets of New York, Like, yeah,

658
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:27.440
you're not on a sound stage, You're not on a

659
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:29.960
set like that really is a homeless guy peeing in

660
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:30.519
the corner.

661
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:38.519
Yep. So this entire movie is based on a nineteen

662
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:42.599
seventy seven novel by Avery Horman, written and directed by

663
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:47.719
Robert Bennen, And we've already talked about the brilliant writing

664
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.840
behind this story. It's it's a story that still holds up,

665
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:55.239
I think surprisingly well for being forty five years old.

666
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.840
There are some dated elements to it, but there's so

667
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:02.199
much that's still related in terms of the dynamics and

668
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.280
emotional pressures and mental health and that kind of dynamic

669
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.280
and what kind of effect that can have on a kid.

670
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.440
But kind of feeding the experiences and the performances by

671
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.519
Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep. Unfortunately were fueled by some

672
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:26.480
real world events, right. Yes, I think Dustin Hoffman was

673
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:33.599
going through a divorce at the time. Yes, his first.

674
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.639
Which you know is a mess for anybody, But he

675
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.960
was able in some positive ways to turn it into

676
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:46.920
fuel for this movie because he submitted so much of

677
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:51.719
his own, you know, personal experiences as a part of

678
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:58.440
like his method acting and improvisation techniques like the director

679
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:02.079
offered him. He was like, I could give you screenplay credit,

680
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:07.840
like you definitely contributed to the development of this story,

681
00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:11.719
and he you know, turned it down. But it also

682
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.960
I think allowed him to feed a lot of animosity

683
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.039
with Meryl Streep that professionally did not need to be there.

684
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:26.679
Yeah, for sure, I was very disappointed to hear about

685
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:33.079
these things for the first time. Started with the Hallway fight.

686
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.159
There's an interview with Meryl Streep where she had said

687
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.960
that if you watch that first scene where Joanna is leaving,

688
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:44.679
there's a red mark on her cheek because off camera,

689
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:50.400
Dustin Offlman apparently slapped her hard to elicit some kind

690
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.239
of emotional response, and she says, I would have gotten

691
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:57.079
there anyway. That was not necessary, And I guess they've

692
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.800
reconciled since then, but that's true.

693
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.360
I don't know. I heard all of this after seeing

694
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:12.280
her on Bravo does a show with Andy Cohen, like

695
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:17.719
an interview show, and he did a he does a

696
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:21.239
Plead the Fifth where he asked you five questions and

697
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.360
you can plead the fifth to one of them, and

698
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.360
she never did. And the one thing he asked her,

699
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.840
he played. They played Mary shag Kill with three of

700
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.039
her co stars, and she said she would marry Robert Redford,

701
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:39.159
she would shag Jack Nicholson, and she would kill Dustin Hoffman.

702
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:40.800
Wow.

703
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:44.760
And I was like, oh why. And so then I'm

704
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.719
you know, googling, like what happened? And you know, you

705
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:51.119
read all this stuff in like the scene where they

706
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:53.519
meet in the pub and he throws the wineglass at her,

707
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.000
like he didn't tell her he was going to do that,

708
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.280
but he told the cameraman, you know, it's like you're

709
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.719
a schmuck, like yeah, And and I hate that method

710
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.480
acting stuff anyway, like I, you know, do what you

711
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:07.119
gotta do to get where you need to go. But

712
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:09.599
I think it's kind of self indulgent.

713
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.320
Well, and it kind of seems like he was assuming

714
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.400
that she would be able to get there as an actor.

715
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.480
You know, I've been in the graduates. I know everything.

716
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.880
It's like, calm down, but it's early in your career still.

717
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:31.400
I think anybody on a set, Unfortunately the cameraman didn't

718
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.559
say so, but would probably tell you if you're going

719
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:38.519
to have something breaking like that, you need to absolutely

720
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.400
make the make sure that people are aware of what's happening,

721
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.280
because if that glass had like flown into her eye

722
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.000
or hurt her in some way, right.

723
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:55.840
I mean a stunt, like, yes, that's a stunt wine

724
00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:00.760
glass and she's been coordinated by a stunt coordinator. So yeah, yeah,

725
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:03.400
and probably you know it was seventy nine, right, none

726
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:04.079
of that happened.

727
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:06.760
That's not sugar glass. Yeah, it's like.

728
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:11.800
Yeah, it was from you know, catering or whatever. So yeah,

729
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.639
just that that self indulgent misogyny. Yeah, it is really

730
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:21.119
disappointing because I like Destin Hoffman as an actor.

731
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.239
Same here, same here, you know, since.

732
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:26.400
He's one of my favorite movies of all time. So

733
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:31.519
you know, that's really kind of sad to hear. But

734
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.559
then you know, I don't mean to excuse it, but

735
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.119
also putting things in the perspective of the time that

736
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.800
they were in, like that was the world.

737
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:44.079
Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah, and I know that in the interview

738
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:45.519
that I had heard, she said that they've kind of

739
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:52.639
reconciled since then. But considering what she was going through,

740
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:58.079
Number One, she was already a strong actor, or she

741
00:45:58.079 --> 00:45:59.320
wouldn't have gotten the part.

742
00:45:59.639 --> 00:45:59.880
Right.

743
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:06.159
This is a very emotionally heavy script, to say the least,

744
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:09.440
So even if you're just reading the words and you know,

745
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:15.159
talking through this character, it's gut wrenching. But at the time,

746
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:21.440
she had just lost her boyfriend, actor John Casales cause

747
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:26.320
als thank you to cancer, and that's something that she

748
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:29.760
was still living with and struggling with. And I think

749
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:33.599
she was pulling from that to into some of her

750
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:35.440
performances at some times.

751
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:40.800
But well, and especially this movie, she never has just

752
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:45.159
a going to the grocery scene. You know, every scene

753
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:49.840
that she is in is layered and complex and a

754
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:53.599
lot of you know, very deep intense emotions.

755
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:58.760
Yeah, well, it makes me makes me feel even more

756
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.719
sorry for her. In the courtroom scene, and you've already

757
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:06.440
mentioned this before, but when the lawyer is grilling her

758
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:10.519
and he pushes her and says like, didn't you fail

759
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:14.639
at the one most important relationship you ever had or

760
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:18.159
something like that. Yes, that feels like it's hitting on

761
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:23.599
the experience with John, Like if I was her, and

762
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.679
obviously I can't say what she was going through, but

763
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:28.920
if I was going to imagine relating in that moment,

764
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.519
I would absolutely go to those places. So when you

765
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:35.960
mentioned like she looks over and sees Dustin kind of

766
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:39.800
you know, shake his head. No, as I understand it,

767
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.840
that was a very real I think it was ad

768
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.679
libbed moment when she looks over at him and he

769
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:52.039
kind of shakes his head, knowing that that was almost

770
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:52.840
kind of tapped into.

771
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:54.039
Yeah.

772
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:58.480
Yeah, so she didn't need any pushes. She certainly nobody

773
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:02.800
deserves to be slapped like that. But I just hate

774
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.880
to hear that they had been going through such difficult

775
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:09.760
times when making this movie. But it also seems like

776
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:14.679
it must have been very cathartic for them.

777
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:18.679
Yeah, it's definitely a job where you say I came

778
00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:19.599
out the other side.

779
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.519
Yeah, for sure. Well, and I know that Merrill was

780
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:30.800
working on Manhattan with Woody Allen and said that Robert

781
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.320
Benton had almost kind of spoiled her for other directors

782
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:39.960
because he had so much confidence in her and trusted

783
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.519
her too at her own perspective the same way it

784
00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:45.880
seems like he was trusting Dustin to say, to your point,

785
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.800
he brought so much of his own experience into it

786
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:50.199
that they're considered giving him partial screenwriting credit.

787
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.679
Well, and Benton did allow her. She did stand up

788
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.519
for her character and you know, kind of added some

789
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:06.000
layers that made her less of a villain and more sympathetic. Yeah,

790
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:09.880
you know, which Dustin Hoffman didn't like. He was, you know,

791
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:13.039
but that's not the purity of the story, you know.

792
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:16.440
And she was like, well, I don't care, because it's

793
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:19.480
not fair to just push this woman into this box

794
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:23.280
of you know, you're a horrible person, exactly.

795
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:26.880
Yeah, And I mean I think it's very fitting that

796
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:31.000
the the title of the movie is Kramer versus Creamer, Right,

797
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.199
it's not an irresponsible person or anything else like that.

798
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:38.400
It's that there are two very specific.

799
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:41.960
Sides and you know of a family name.

800
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:45.559
Yes, And the movie poster that I usually kind of

801
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.719
go back to is very fitting because it shows that

802
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:53.199
little nuclear unit of you know, Ted and Joanna and

803
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:57.000
Billy all together with Billy in the middle, and that's

804
00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:59.079
absolutely what this movie is all about.

805
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.719
But it could have been in a more cynical art department.

806
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.280
It could have been like each of them holding onto

807
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.320
one of his arms and like tug.

808
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:10.280
Of warring pulling him apart exactly.

809
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:14.480
But you know what I mean. But that's so beautifully

810
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.079
not what the story. It is a little bit of

811
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:19.239
an element of the story, but that's not what the

812
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.559
whole structure really is.

813
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.679
Yeah. Well, there's a segment in this where we talk

814
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:31.239
about score, and without Dave here, it's probably fitting that

815
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:35.119
there's not much probably to say about the score. There's

816
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:39.920
some beautiful I think it's Vivaldi. In the beginning, there

817
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.639
was an interesting kind of moment where you see the

818
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.360
two guitarists on the street, yeah, playing it.

819
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:50.159
You hear it over the soundtrack, and then you cut

820
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.360
to a street scene. Yeah, and there's these two guys,

821
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:57.159
you know, just riffing on it, which was so great,

822
00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:57.840
so subtle.

823
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:00.920
Yeah, Well, in the music then kind of stops at

824
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.159
that moment, and I had to rewatch a little bit

825
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:07.239
to see how much music was kind of used in this.

826
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.880
There's definitely some score that's used, definitely some some music

827
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.280
production to it, but there's so much that is often

828
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:17.880
silent because they're letting the emotional weight of the dialogue

829
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:21.400
hang there in the air and let it play out.

830
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.199
And I think that was a brilliant idea. I mean,

831
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:26.480
I think score is as much knowing when to add

832
00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:28.679
music as it is knowing when to leave it out.

833
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.000
I think it was just well done in this one.

834
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.360
Yes, I completely agree, And it could have made it

835
00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:36.119
like very Schmaltze.

836
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:38.119
Oh yeah, you.

837
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:42.480
Know where the emotions just have sometimes more more honesty

838
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.039
if you don't have, you know, a music chord telling

839
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.360
you now you're supposed to be sad, you know.

840
00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:54.239
Right, well, especially in that courtroom scene. Yes, it's a

841
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:58.320
very like it's the the silence that fills the courtroom,

842
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:02.039
right and it's very much supposed to be that kind

843
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.800
of empty space that's very uncomfortable, very awkward, and I

844
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:09.559
don't know, just good decisions there.

845
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:11.679
Yeah, I agreed.

846
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:15.639
There was a quote that I wanted to bring up

847
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:21.119
from Robert Bennon about a moment that he trusted Meryll

848
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:26.320
in that courtroom scene to add a little bit more

849
00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:29.440
to Joanna's character. So he said, I said to marily

850
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:31.760
in a moment of euphoria, there's a speech I've written

851
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:34.159
in this courtroom for you. And I like this speech,

852
00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:37.199
but I feel as though it's a speech written by

853
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.400
a man and put into the mouth of a woman.

854
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:42.280
Would you reread it and come back to me with it.

855
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:46.599
So right after he says this, like fifteen minutes later,

856
00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:49.920
he's forgotten that he's asked her to do so. On

857
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:53.000
the first day, she comes in and says, I've rewritten

858
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.679
what you wanted me to write. I'd forgotten that I

859
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:58.079
asked her. So I thought, well, I'm going to lose

860
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:02.079
a friend here. This is going to be awful. And

861
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:04.920
I read it and it was too long by a fourth,

862
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.519
but it was perfect, and in it she puts it in.

863
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:11.039
She puts in it the thing that makes it a

864
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:14.760
killer speech. It was devastating what she said and something

865
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:17.960
I never would have thought to write. That is a

866
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:22.119
brave and amazing directorial choice.

867
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:26.599
I think, yes, well, and just to have the self

868
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:31.280
awareness to, you know, say, I am a man and

869
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:36.960
I can't speak for everything. Yeah, you know there's a

870
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:41.519
portion to being a female that you know, women need

871
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:44.719
to speak to on their own and to give her

872
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:47.599
the freedom, you know, to at least try to do that.

873
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:52.079
You know and be heard is extraordinary.

874
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:54.880
Yeah. I think it's one of the reasons this movie

875
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:58.199
still holds up. It's one that I would still recommend

876
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:02.079
that people see. I know that after watching this, there's

877
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:04.639
a bunch of prompts coming up to watch a marriage Story.

878
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:07.800
I think it is with Scarlett Johansson.

879
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.360
And yes, oh.

880
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.920
Thank you. Yeah, I don't think I'm ready to watch

881
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:14.480
that yet.

882
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:17.920
It you really have to be prepared, because I was not,

883
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:21.280
and it took me out for a couple of days

884
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:26.719
because that was very hit, very close to home to

885
00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:32.559
my my personal experience. And the the writing and the

886
00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:35.760
acting is is so good. It's much more volatile than

887
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:40.559
this movie is. Okay, but they do pair, you know,

888
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:43.159
in my you might also want to watch it was

889
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:44.159
Missus Daufffire.

890
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:48.239
Oh, that's a different which I feel like that's.

891
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:52.000
A whole other swing to the to the pendulum. But

892
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.480
I think a marriage Story is is a definitely a

893
00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:58.320
modern parallel to to this story.

894
00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:02.239
Yeah. So, to ask the obvious question, do you think

895
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:06.920
Kramer versus Kramer the success that it had not only

896
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:08.920
in terms of the box office, but in terms of

897
00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.440
the accolades it received and how much people are still

898
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:15.840
talking about it, that it opened the door for movies

899
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:18.800
like a marriage story to happen, and movies like Missus

900
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.519
Doubtfire to have that element in it and be that

901
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.920
honest and have that many kind of perspectives on divorce.

902
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:30.840
I think so because I think that you know, for

903
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:35.320
so long, to choose to divorce was such a scandal

904
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:40.760
and such a horrible thing to do and really just

905
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:44.159
gave you like this scarlet letter in you know, your

906
00:55:44.199 --> 00:55:49.079
social circle, and to reach a point in society where

907
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:51.199
you could say, you know, we have made a terrible

908
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:57.960
mistake and we have the opportunity to remedy that in

909
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:04.280
a healthy way and to acknowledge that, Okay, you're mature

910
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:08.079
enough to make that decision for yourself and your relationship

911
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.840
and your family. But it's going to be messy and

912
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:14.119
it's going to be ugly, but if you always have

913
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:17.280
the right goals in mind, it can be you know,

914
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:21.480
ultimately a growth experience. You know that that works out

915
00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:25.360
for everyone. You can come through on the other side,

916
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:30.920
and you know, I think kind of pulling back that

917
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:36.800
curtain in a positive way is you know, what makes

918
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:39.599
this movie, you know, the longevity of it, and then

919
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:43.519
of course, you know, just the blessing of you know,

920
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:47.840
that magic chemistry of writing and directing and the right

921
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:53.039
actors at the right time, and you know, just absolutely

922
00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:56.480
makes this, you know, one that everybody, you know, you say,

923
00:56:56.480 --> 00:56:59.280
there's movies everybody should see, but this is definitely one

924
00:56:59.320 --> 00:56:59.760
of those.

925
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:04.880
Yeah, And and I'm very pleased that it that it

926
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.159
holds up so well because I think it's absolutely one

927
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:09.519
that does to be pulled back off the shelf for

928
00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:11.960
a while, and you know, everybody should give us.

929
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:17.000
Some attention, you know, watch a movie about adults being adults.

930
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:20.320
You know. I I love the Marvel movies. I love

931
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.000
Star Wars, you know, I love all of those, you know,

932
00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:29.320
fun things. But sometimes it's it's important, you know, especially

933
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:33.239
in such a contentious world too kind of see how

934
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:36.199
you can work through that and and learn to talk

935
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:39.440
to each other and acknowledge your own faults and other

936
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:43.119
people's faults and you know, still be have a healthy

937
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:44.360
relationship at the end of it.

938
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:48.280
Yep, it's true. Yeah, I think it's it's also just,

939
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:53.039
you know, as somebody who grew up relating to Billy

940
00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:57.519
probably more than anybody in that movie, being an adult

941
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:00.239
and seeing maybe how you're seeing your seeing your own

942
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:04.079
parents through a different lens, seeing what they may have

943
00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:07.239
been going through at the time. It's a great time

944
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:11.639
capsule and I'd recommend seeing it to anybody that has

945
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:15.280
a chance. Now, I had to catch this on Amazon Prime.

946
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:16.079
Where did you see this?

947
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.639
Same? Every now and then it'll you know, pop up

948
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:26.039
on like HBO. Well Max will show it because they've

949
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:29.800
got that connection to Turner classic movies. So every now

950
00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:31.800
and then it'll pop around where you can stream it.

951
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:34.400
But at the moment you need to run it. But

952
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:36.199
it's worth the three dollars of it, I think.

953
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:39.880
Yep, totally agree. All right, well, Amber, thank you very

954
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:43.079
much for joining me for this one. I would love

955
00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:46.320
to have you back for a future episode or if

956
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:48.119
you ever want to join us on Phaser Set the Sun.

957
00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:51.280
Oh yes, there's always a seat of the console if

958
00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:53.039
you want to if you want to join us there.

959
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:55.920
Oh yay, yes, I'm always happy to come back. This

960
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:56.840
was a lot of fun.

961
00:58:56.880 --> 00:59:00.840
Thank you very much, cool and thanks listen for joining us.

962
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:04.000
If you want to leave a comment, discuss what's next,

963
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:08.199
or even have suggestions, you can find us at www

964
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:11.280
dot a film by podcast dot com. You can email

965
00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:14.119
us at a film by a podcast at gmail dot com.

966
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.639
Find us at a film by podcast on Facebook, Instagram,

967
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:20.639
and your other social channels until our film reels start

968
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:23.199
rolling it again. Go out and watch something new, watch

969
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:28.800
something different, and who knows what you'll discover next. Thanks everybody,